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Speaker 1: Hey, did you love me? You're not you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, good mornings we were and welcome to the No

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Speaker 3: Dunks podcast on the Athletic Network. It's Tuesday, December twenty second.

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Speaker 3: Happy NBA Day to each and every one of you

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Speaker 3: watching and listening. We got a fun podcast here this morning,

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Speaker 3: and get your hype for the start of the regular season.

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Speaker 3: I'm Jay Skeets along with Trey Kirby Leley and the

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Speaker 3: man making the magic hap in JD. And today we've

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Speaker 3: got a special guest that's not Tasks. He sort of

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Speaker 3: looks like him because he's got a great he but

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Speaker 3: incredibly this is his first time, we think on the podcast.

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Speaker 3: Kirk Goldsberry. Kirk, appreciate you coming on No Dunks. How

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Speaker 3: you doing?

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Speaker 1: Man, It's been way too long.

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Speaker 4: I think this is this is This has been too long,

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Speaker 4: and I'm happy to be here and I'm doing very well,

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Speaker 4: very excited and sort of stunned for today's opening gay

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Speaker 4: and ring Night and all the stuff that we're going

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Speaker 4: to see this evening.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you said you woke up this morning and didn't

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Speaker 3: really realize that the NBA season was starting here tonight

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Speaker 3: on December twenty second.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I don't think Lebron James knows it either,

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Speaker 4: but he'll find out sometime around launch that he has

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Speaker 4: to play tonight.

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Speaker 3: I think it is really weird, all right. Well, for

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Speaker 3: those that don't know, Kirk, I wanted to hit the

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Speaker 3: listeners and people joining us on the stream team right

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Speaker 3: now with sort of like your abbreviated resume, just to

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Speaker 3: get everybody up to speed. Current NBA analyst at ESPN

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Speaker 3: New York Times, Hello, best selling author of Sprawl Bob.

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Speaker 1: There it is right there.

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Speaker 3: I had it up on my bookshelf, professor at the

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Speaker 3: University of Texas. You're an analyst for Team USA basketball,

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Speaker 3: and we're formerly a VP with the San Antonio Spurs.

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Speaker 3: And then now you're like a cartographer slash artist, having

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Speaker 3: just created a Smith International Park map, which we're gonna

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Speaker 3: get to later in the podcast. There's a little tease

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Speaker 3: for you. We're going to do a deep dive on

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Speaker 3: this unbelievable thing. Is there anything I'm missing there, though, Kirk?

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Speaker 1: No, I'm just I'm happy to be here.

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Speaker 4: And I've had a wild career, I would say, essentially,

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Speaker 4: because I was into basketball analytics in the twenty tens.

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Speaker 1: My career got me yanked around.

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Speaker 4: Because we didn't know what analytics was, we didn't know

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Speaker 4: where it was going, we didn't know who to need

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Speaker 4: it most, and so I just got yanked around. But

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Speaker 4: it was a real fun process, and I'm happy to

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Speaker 4: be where I am at ESPN and happy to be

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Speaker 4: at UT teaching the youngsters.

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Speaker 2: Awesomestly, it feels like you're slumming it a little bit

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Speaker 2: talking to you here, skeets less than all those qualifications,

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Speaker 2: You're like, this guy's actually very smart.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: No, we were technically coworkers, I think about six or

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Speaker 4: seven years ago, right at the Grantlin Granta, So you know,

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Speaker 4: I'm not slumming it. That's still some of the best

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Speaker 4: gigs I've ever had was the Grantland Era, And I

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Speaker 4: know you guys cut your teeth there for a little while.

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Speaker 4: So no, I'm thrilled to be here. And like I

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Speaker 4: said at the top, I can't believe it's taken this long.

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Speaker 1: So let's do no.

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Speaker 3: Scott, Yeah, well, yeah, let's test how smart you are

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Speaker 3: when it comes to the numbers and basketball. We got

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Speaker 3: a lot to talk about with the season tipping off tonight.

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Speaker 3: We'll start with the contract extensions because it's sort of

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Speaker 3: newsworthy for everyone that's joining us daily here. We had

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Speaker 3: a lot of them yesterday, sort of at the last minute.

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Speaker 3: Ogiana Nobi and the Raptors four years seventy two million

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Speaker 3: dollar extension. Jonathan Isaac, who's actually injured right now, but

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Speaker 3: the Magic believe in him, four years eighty million dollar extension.

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Speaker 3: Derek White and the Spurs again a team that you

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Speaker 3: formerly worked for, four years seventy three million dollar extension.

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Speaker 3: Luke Kennard and the Clippers four years sixty four million,

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Speaker 3: Markel Foltz and the Magic three year fifty million. And

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Speaker 3: then over the weekend we had Kyle Kuzma and the

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Speaker 3: Lakers agreeing to the three year forty million dollar extension.

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Speaker 3: No deals for John Collins, no deal for Lonzo ball

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Speaker 3: Auri Markanen. Of all those, I just listed Kirk, which

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Speaker 3: one was the biggest surprise to you, Either that signed

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Speaker 3: and the number maybe they agreed on, or one that

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Speaker 3: didn't get done in you know, the Collins ball In marketIn.

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Speaker 4: I think the fact that Lonzo didn't get done is

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Speaker 4: the most surprising. I think a lot of people would

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Speaker 4: answer Markel Foltz and to me, I love Markel. I'm

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Speaker 4: happy for him and his family right now because.

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Speaker 1: Of all he went through.

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Speaker 4: But the fact that Lonzo Ball is going to enter

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Speaker 4: restricted free agency is relatively shocking to me.

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Speaker 1: So my answer is Ball.

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Speaker 4: And I'm happy for Derek White, who I was in

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Speaker 4: the draft room when we picked him. If you would

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Speaker 4: have told me on draft night a few years ago

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Speaker 4: that the Spurs would be paying him four year, seventy

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Speaker 4: three million dollars, I would have been thrilled because that

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Speaker 4: would have meant he turned into the kind of great

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Speaker 4: player he is right now. But I get coming into

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Speaker 4: this week, I'm not surprised that that one got done.

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Speaker 3: Did you have like a little bit of a say then,

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Speaker 3: in the drafting of Derek White, like you saw potential

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Speaker 3: in him or like take us through that situation.

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Speaker 4: Well, first of all, the people who run the Spurs

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Speaker 4: draft or our CVU for Dave tail Up and their

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Speaker 4: incredible scouts, so they and Greg Popovich gets an opinion

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Speaker 4: in there too every once in a while, but he

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Speaker 4: chimes in, but really me being like, we're taking Derek White,

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Speaker 4: that's not what happened. But you know, we have a

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Speaker 4: bunch of models and analyzes that we run and we

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Speaker 4: really like Derek in the analytics department, and he's continued

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Speaker 4: to prove himself as a really shrewd two way player

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Speaker 4: who I think is going to be a great rotation

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Speaker 4: piece for years to come in the NBA skeets. And

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Speaker 4: I think he just got paid a fair deal and

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Speaker 4: I think he's going to have a really nice four

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Speaker 4: year run for the Spurs with this new contract. Well

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Speaker 4: deserved and I'm thrilled for the young man.

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Speaker 5: What did you think when you saw him then last

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Speaker 5: year playing for Team USA. I know it was not

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Speaker 5: maybe their strongest roster, but that's still a pretty big

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Speaker 5: jump for him as well there. So what were your

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Speaker 5: thoughts when you saw him at there?

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Speaker 1: Well, I think lee to answer that question.

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Speaker 4: It's just another data point that the guy has come

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Speaker 4: a long way now. He entered the league as an

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Speaker 4: older player, as a four year college player, so he

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Speaker 4: got a head start. I think it was twenty two

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Speaker 4: when he made his NBA debut. But being asked to

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Speaker 4: be on the Team USA squad, no matter what the circumstances,

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Speaker 4: is an honor. There's a lot of great players on there,

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Speaker 4: and Derek deserved it because up as I said he's

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Speaker 4: become one of the smartest two way players. I love

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Speaker 4: watching the kid play, especially on defense, and coach Pop

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Speaker 4: knows them better than any coach in the league and

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Speaker 4: probably saw that as something.

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Speaker 1: That Team US they could use.

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Speaker 4: Takes a ton of charges, just like Kyle Lowry, you know,

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Speaker 4: I think that's sort of his his signature skill on

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Speaker 4: defensive side from deflecting a ton of balls. But it's

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Speaker 4: that kind of hustle lee that I think endears him

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Speaker 4: to coaches like Pop, who then gives him a call

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Speaker 4: for that Team US.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's sort of cool to see like three of

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Speaker 3: these names that jump out OG. Jonathan Isaac, who has

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Speaker 3: said is injured but is an unbelievable defensive player, and

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Speaker 3: then Derek White like you're talking about Kirk. Like those guys,

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Speaker 3: you know, they're not, you know, lighting up the box

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Speaker 3: score when it comes to scoring, but they're really already

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Speaker 3: at a young age some of the elite defenders at

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Speaker 3: their positions. I know, Raptors fans are pumped with the

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Speaker 3: OG extension. I think the number that Messiah and his

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Speaker 3: team agreed upon four year seventy two, especially when you

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Speaker 3: do compare it to like a Derek White four to

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Speaker 3: seventy three. You know, Raps fans are always high on

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Speaker 3: their own guys, but Ogobi is on some lists of

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Speaker 3: like a potential most improved player. You know, we think

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Speaker 3: he could get better and better and better. And now

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Speaker 3: the Raptors and what the last year in a little bit, Siakam,

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Speaker 3: Van Vliet and og all locked up to their new deals.

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Speaker 3: They're all under contract here for what minimum, I guess

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Speaker 3: three more years. That's the foundation. Do you you know,

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Speaker 3: are you high on that foundation of those three guys

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Speaker 3: or the Raptors moving forward?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent.

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Speaker 4: Not to mention Nick Nurse is locked up and he's

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Speaker 4: arguably one of their bigger assets too, But I would

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Speaker 4: say that Yeah. The other thing that that sort of

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Speaker 4: comes into clarity with these extension skeets as it relates

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Speaker 4: to Toronto is that Van Fleet deal looks pretty good now,

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Speaker 4: you know, it got it got some attention for the number,

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Speaker 4: but then you compare it relative to Folts or Canard

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Speaker 4: or Derek White or even og as teammate. You know, like, hey,

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Speaker 4: that's that's a really nice deal for a player like

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Speaker 4: Fred van Fleet, who's proven he can do it when

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Speaker 4: it matters the most. Yeah, So I think that's interesting.

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Speaker 4: And the other thing that's sort of happening macroscopically is

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Speaker 4: these big numbers on the extensions aren't happening in a vacuum.

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Speaker 4: I think you look at the twenty twenty one free

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Speaker 4: agency class, which used to be like the oh my gosh,

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Speaker 4: can you leave all these players? Well, long story short,

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Speaker 4: a lot of those guys just signed their own big

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Speaker 4: time extensions. Yeah, and so the big numbers we saw

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Speaker 4: this week are a little bit I think of a

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Speaker 4: downstream effect of the marketplace not being great next year

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Speaker 4: and teams saying, if I have to overpay some of

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Speaker 4: these extension deals, I'll do it because Giannis isn't coming

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Speaker 4: through that door and stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I wonder if that's why a lot of

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Speaker 3: these were coming in sort of at the last minute too.

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Speaker 3: That's sort of what shocked me a little bit, like, well,

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Speaker 3: where what are these extensions? Things start happening? But I

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Speaker 3: think you're right. I think it was a bit of

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Speaker 3: a waiting game, especially what's the honest going to do

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Speaker 3: with some of these teams Raptors for sure being one

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Speaker 3: of them. And then oh okay, well He's off the board.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Paul George's off the board. Oh yeah. All

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Speaker 3: these other guys are not going to be there in

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Speaker 3: this amazing twenty twenty one class. Now, let's lock up

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Speaker 3: our own guys, our young talent, and you know we'll

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Speaker 3: bank on them moving forward. Yeah, anything to add Trey.

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Speaker 3: Were you surprised by any of these from yesterday, especially.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was a little surprised to see marking In

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Speaker 2: not get an extension, but not really when you go

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Speaker 2: back and look at the splits for Lowry Markin on

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Speaker 2: over his Bulls career, he's had basically one good month

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Speaker 2: on a team that won about a third of their games.

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Speaker 2: That's not a huge resume for marketing In. But when

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Speaker 2: you're looking at the balls outside of Zach Lavine, he

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Speaker 2: seems like the guy that would be the most likely

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Speaker 2: All Star candidate in the future. But I don't know, Kirk,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. If you've looked at his shot data,

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Speaker 2: they had him taking a ton of threes last year

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Speaker 2: and that's kind of all they did. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: There's been talk about him maybe getting the ball in

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Speaker 2: the flow of the offense a little bit more this season,

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Speaker 2: where he's able to attack from maybe the mid post

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Speaker 2: places where he's a little bit more comfortable. He's basically

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Speaker 2: just a catch and shoot guy last year, but there's

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Speaker 2: not a big track record for marketing in despite the

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Speaker 2: fact that he was the centerpiece of the Jimmy Butler

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Speaker 2: trade a few years ago. A little bit disappointing, but

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Speaker 2: that's all the old front office. Man, if you're a

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Speaker 2: Bulls fan, you just got to write the past twenty

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Speaker 2: years off basically and say we're going from here. If

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Speaker 2: we got to start over, if it's all about Wendell

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Speaker 2: Carter and Patrick Williams, that's how it's gotta be. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I like Laurie coming out, and I'm surprised he hasn't

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Speaker 4: put up more impressive three point shooting numbers. But that said,

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Speaker 4: it's really hard for a young player, especially as as

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Speaker 4: an off ball player, to really thrive in a struggling

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Speaker 4: team environment like Chicago has.

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Speaker 1: Had over the last few years.

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Speaker 4: So he's going to be an interesting sort of second

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Speaker 4: draft guy. That's a concept that some NBA teams used

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Speaker 4: to look at, like, oh okay, there's this sort of

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Speaker 4: scrap heap. I think Lourie finds himself near the top

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Speaker 4: of that pile, and he's a really enticing guy for

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Speaker 4: somebody to convince themselves, hey we can we can get

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Speaker 4: something out.

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Speaker 1: Of this guy.

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Speaker 4: Look at that shot, Look at that size. I mean,

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Speaker 4: the bulls just didn't know what they were doing. So

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Speaker 4: somebody's going to talk them selves into paying LORII something

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Speaker 4: and he's going to have a chip on his shoulder.

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Speaker 4: And I, for one, don't think it's over for this

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Speaker 4: young man. I think he's he's too good to not

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Speaker 4: be a rotation player somewhere. Hopefully his next stop he

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Speaker 4: gets to flex a little bit more as an off

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Speaker 4: ball shooter in a better offensive environment.

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Speaker 2: I'm with you, Kirk. I remember February twenty nineteen. Man,

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Speaker 2: it was awesome lottery with Ball and it was like

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Speaker 2: twelve games twenty and ten O my heart.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like Collins Ball and market In as we talked about,

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Speaker 3: with the twenty twenty one class sort of drying up.

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Speaker 3: They're gonna be restricted so their teams can match on them.

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Speaker 3: But man, they could be in line for a pretty

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Speaker 3: payday here, like you're saying, Kirk, just because there's not

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Speaker 3: a lot of potential free agents available, or not as

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Speaker 3: many as we may be initially thought if these guys

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Speaker 3: have huge years, if market in is like whatever, flirting

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Speaker 3: with twenty tens for a good chunk of the season.

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Speaker 3: We know Collins can do that. Who knows a Lonzo

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Speaker 3: what numbers he's putting up and his impact. It could

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Speaker 3: cost their teams, like I guess, a lot, a lot

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Speaker 3: more maybe than they would have right now, which is

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Speaker 3: why their agents probably of these players, are like, hey, look,

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Speaker 3: if we don't sign this right now, that's okay. Look

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Speaker 3: at the money we could be looking at next year

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Speaker 3: if we play well this year. That's the big part

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Speaker 3: I guess with this.

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Speaker 4: Right Yeah, And I think you know both the three

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Speaker 4: guys you named all could have big ears.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, obs.

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Speaker 4: I mean if you told me Lonzo Ball was going

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Speaker 4: to lead the league in steals or something and have

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Speaker 4: nine assists a game, I'd be like, yeah, I could

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Speaker 4: see that. And like you're saying, if Lori comes out

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Speaker 4: super motivated in a new environment in Chicago, I'm not

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Speaker 4: saying twenty tens every night. But and then Collins has

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Speaker 4: already showed he could do that, And you're right, You're

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Speaker 4: exactly right. In a depleted marketplace in the summer of

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty one, when there's going to be so much

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Speaker 4: money in the market and not a lot of talent.

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Speaker 4: Potentially there's a world where these guys get really big

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Speaker 4: offers and the teams that were playing sitting back are

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Speaker 4: now in a really tricky predicament with these three players.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's look ahead to Opening Night. I know you're shocked,

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Speaker 3: soul am. I I can't believe these games are actually

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Speaker 3: gonna matter. I don't know if you had a chance

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Speaker 3: to look at the schedule here, Kirk, but it is

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Speaker 3: Warriors Net and Clippers Lakers. You know the Lakers are

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Speaker 3: playing with Lebron Which one are you most excited for

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Speaker 3: him those two games tonight? And why I guess Warriors Nets.

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Speaker 4: I mean, first of all, it's on before my bedtime,

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Speaker 4: which is a big thing at my age. Second of all,

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Speaker 4: Kevin Durant's really freaking good at basketball. Yeah, Kevin freaking

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Speaker 4: Durant is going to be playing tonight. And Steph Curry too.

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Speaker 4: It's sort of the undercard that Steph is coming back.

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Speaker 4: And these are two of my favorite players to watch

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Speaker 4: play basketball on the planet. And so I'll be jolted

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Speaker 4: right back into mid season form as That game tips

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Speaker 4: off this evening, and I'm super excited skeets for honestly

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Speaker 4: just watching Kevin. The dude is arguably the best scorer

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Speaker 4: of my post Jordan lifetime. He can do everything, and

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Speaker 4: he is unstoppable. And when I was on the Spurs

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Speaker 4: and at games watching him in playoffs, there's nobody more terrifying.

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Speaker 4: Though He's just you can't do anything. I don't care

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Speaker 4: if you're just hoping. He's missus basically, And I think America.

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Speaker 1: Has sort of forgotten how good Kevin Durant is.

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Speaker 4: I think, you know, when players miss that much time,

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Speaker 4: you sort of forget, holy crap. This guy is insane,

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Speaker 4: and he's a fifty to forty ninety guy to remind

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Speaker 4: the audience, and scoring twenty eight a game like.

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Speaker 1: It's insane.

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Speaker 4: And he's the only one who really dominates the mid

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Speaker 4: range anymore. And you know, I write a lot about

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Speaker 4: the mid range and I love it. It's inefficient for

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Speaker 4: most guys, but Kevin is the exception. He can dribble

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Speaker 4: into those elbow jumpers and he can sink them and

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Speaker 4: beat teams.

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Speaker 1: With it, and I love it. So I'm looking forward

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Speaker 1: to that game.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been eighteen months, eighteen months basically since Kevin

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Speaker 2: Durant last played. Even the last time we saw him,

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Speaker 2: it was only twelve minutes right against the Raptors when

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Speaker 2: he made his return after getting hurt against the Rockets previously.

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Speaker 2: And even in that game he was three for three

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Speaker 2: from three eleven points. We were all feeling like, U, well,

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Speaker 2: Kevin Durant's gonna win this series here for the Warriors.

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Speaker 2: On IG Live not too long ago, Kyrie Irving and

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Speaker 2: Kevin Durant were chatting. They were just chatting about how

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Speaker 2: the season's gonna come up. Kyrie is saying, I love

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Speaker 2: post ups. I want to post up four times a half,

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Speaker 2: and Kevin's like, ah, Michael, a little tight under there.

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Speaker 2: If the point guards underneath the rim all the time,

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Speaker 2: how do you see these two guys working, Because, like

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Speaker 2: you're saying, Kati, he can score from anywhere. He's a

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Speaker 2: master in the mid range, mid range, he scores inside

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Speaker 2: as well. Kyrie is a three point shooter. He scores

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Speaker 2: inside as well. Are they gonna get in each other's way?

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Speaker 4: I don't think so. I watched for that a little

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Speaker 4: bit in the preseason. I think they're too good and

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Speaker 4: too respectful of each other to let that happen. I

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Speaker 4: think Steve Nash again, one of the more interesting people

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Speaker 4: to watch tonight is actually Steve Nash and what their

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Speaker 4: offense will look like and how he's gonna orchestrate it.

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Speaker 4: But you know, like Steve Kerr a few years ago,

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Speaker 4: came in with no experience quote unquote, I think both

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Speaker 4: of those people have a lot of experience in this league,

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Speaker 4: and I think that Steve's going to control that offense

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Speaker 4: really well. But yeah, I do think there's a potential

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Speaker 4: for for some of the some of the same reports

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Speaker 4: we started to see trickling out of Golden State recently

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Speaker 4: about how Kevin sort of didn't like how some of

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Speaker 4: the other guys were shooting. Whether those are substantiated or not,

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Speaker 4: there's always the potential for that. We've seen that one

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Speaker 4: hundred times in this league, so there's a potential for it.

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Speaker 4: I'm not going to rule it out, But I think

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Speaker 4: these guys are too good and too respectful for each

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Speaker 4: other for it to be a real concern. And I

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Speaker 4: just pity the opponents because Kevin has an off night,

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Speaker 4: Kyrie can go for fifty, yeah, and it's I can't wait,

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Speaker 4: and I have the Nets going real far assuming and

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Speaker 4: this is the big assumption with both of these guys,

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Speaker 4: and you've seen it for a decade. Now, can they

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Speaker 4: stay healthy? That's the big boogeyman in Brooklyn.

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Speaker 1: For me.

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Speaker 4: It's not the chemistry, it's the orthopedics.

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Speaker 5: There's also reports and rooms is out there that potentially

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Speaker 5: James Harden wants to go to Brooklyn. Let's just say

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Speaker 5: that happens. I mean, it's a no brainer if he

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Speaker 5: wants to go there, I guess if the Nets can

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Speaker 5: get him. But do you think that's something where you

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Speaker 5: can almost have too many talented players and not enough

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Speaker 5: ball to go around.

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Speaker 1: I do. I think with those guys, I do.

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Speaker 4: And you know, obviously James and Kevin have played together

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Speaker 4: before and did pretty well, but there were much younger

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Speaker 4: players at that time, and Kyrie Irving is a different

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Speaker 4: player than Westbrook obviously going back to that Thunder team.

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Speaker 4: But you know, I have so much respect for all

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Speaker 4: of them. If Kevin Durant's not the best scorer of

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Speaker 4: the twenty first century, it's probably James Harden and the

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Speaker 4: fact that they could be on the same team and

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Speaker 4: Kyrie essentially being the third best scorer on any team

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Speaker 4: he's ever on is a ridiculous proposition, and I think

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Speaker 4: would just be they would figure it out. They're all smart,

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Speaker 4: they all want the same thing. But yeah, I think

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Speaker 4: some of the stats that we've grown accustomed to for

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Speaker 4: guys like Kevin and James Get would take a hit.

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Speaker 4: And we've seen that in Golden State before. And if

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Speaker 4: those guys are cool with it, they're gonna be real

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Speaker 4: hard to be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the Clippers Lakers is the second game. You just

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Speaker 3: recently wrote about Lebron's like combination of greatness and like

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Speaker 3: the mileage on this guy. You want to talk about

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Speaker 3: something that I think like gets overlooked. We talk about

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Speaker 3: Lebron non stop, don't get me wrong, But if there's

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Speaker 3: one thing with him, and it's not that he's an

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Speaker 3: incredible passer, as we always joke about maybe the greatest

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Speaker 3: passer of all time just by being an incredible score,

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Speaker 3: it is the mileage. It really is. And like you

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Speaker 3: had some staggering numbers. I tweeted one out last night,

404
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Speaker 3: just an insane way to put it, because you're like

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Speaker 3: this guy, if you count the playoffs, Lebron is played

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Speaker 3: like I think it was over fifteen hundred games, Larry

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Speaker 3: Burden his entire career played like a thousand and Jordan

408
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Speaker 3: I think was topping out around twelve twelve hundred or

409
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Speaker 3: something like that. Like it's year like seasons worth on

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Speaker 3: top of those guys, who of course are some of

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Speaker 3: the greatest ever. And as you think about having long

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Speaker 3: careers and tons of playoff runs, how much longer? I

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Speaker 3: know this is an impossible question, Kirk, but like, truthfully,

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Speaker 3: how much longer can he keep this up? Going into

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Speaker 3: what his eighteenth season here with this mileage, like you said,

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Speaker 3: like so many minutes played.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't have a I don't have a concrete answer,

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Speaker 4: but things are.

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Speaker 1: Going well, looking good.

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Speaker 4: You know, he comes into this league this season with

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Speaker 4: the shortest offseason of anybody's life, but particularly his as

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Speaker 4: both check this out, both the reigning finals MVP and

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Speaker 4: the oldest projected starter in the NBA.

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Speaker 1: It's an incredible achievement. Wow, it's an incredible achievement.

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Speaker 4: And that's if jj Reddick doesn't start to night or

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Speaker 4: this week, So keep an eye on that.

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Speaker 1: Don't screw up my statue age.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so, no, I love I love these old guys

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Speaker 4: and I think it's something as we age a little bit,

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Speaker 4: you start to appreciate the guys at the end. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: I do think Skeet's the main point of that article,

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Speaker 4: at least the first part of it is the following.

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Speaker 4: Appreciate the mileage and the sustainability. This is cal Ripken

434
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,880
Speaker 4: or lou Geig of the NBA period. That he is paid,

435
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,119
Speaker 4: he's going to play three hundred more games than Jordan.

436
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 4: And remember the last hundred games of Jordan were in

437
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,720
Speaker 4: the wizard's uniform and Bird at the end was tailing

438
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:18,680
Speaker 4: off and magic. And I love these guys. I grew

439
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,719
Speaker 4: up with these guys. Lebron's the freaking Finals MVP at

440
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,680
Speaker 4: the sixteen hundred mark or the fifteen hundred mark of

441
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:25,560
Speaker 4: his career.

442
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:26,359
Speaker 1: It's insane.

443
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,679
Speaker 4: And there's a plot in that piece that when I

444
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:33,720
Speaker 4: made I just the active minutes and active points, he

445
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,199
Speaker 4: is so far in a way above Carmelo from his

446
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:41,600
Speaker 4: draft class in both minutes and points, another Hall of

447
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,359
Speaker 4: Famer by the way, But just like it's just staggering,

448
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,040
Speaker 4: and I think, yeah, that's the main point. This guy,

449
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 4: among all the accolades, is now going to be one

450
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 4: of the most sustainably great players in the league's history.

451
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 1: And how long can it last?

452
00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 4: I don't know, but I would sort of segue into

453
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 4: this season with this point. It's it's up on trial

454
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 4: right now. He's got seventy one days between his last

455
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 4: game and tonight's game, and that's a big ask for anybody,

456
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 4: but a thirty five to thirty six year old reigning

457
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,399
Speaker 4: Finals MVP. What are they going to do? What do

458
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,520
Speaker 4: you guys think? Is there going to be some load management?

459
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 4: He hates load management. I don't know, it might be time.

460
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,720
Speaker 5: I guess he gets ten games off because the season's shorter,

461
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 5: so that helped him a little bit, and you just

462
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 5: you expect him to manage probably another five to ten

463
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 5: games throughout the season, as long as they're not national

464
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,920
Speaker 5: TV games, because the league sent out the memo this

465
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 5: year that the teams are going to get fined. So

466
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 5: I imagine he probably does. He probably does his manager

467
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:41,159
Speaker 5: because that's what he's done knowing that he's going to

468
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 5: play another twenty odd games come June July. So I

469
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,880
Speaker 5: expect that's what he'll do. I mean, I don't think

470
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,639
Speaker 5: anyone would would blame him or see him doing anything

471
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 5: differently because he does want to keep going, just sign

472
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 5: another two year extension there with the Lakers, So he's

473
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,440
Speaker 5: planning on playing at least another what three seasons, and

474
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 5: then when whenever Brunne's a viable in the draft, he

475
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:02,880
Speaker 5: wants to play at least one season with his son.

476
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,399
Speaker 3: Oh yes, we can get a griffy griffy moment for sure.

477
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 3: If other and said, I think there's a couple of

478
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 3: interesting points. The no fans right now, at least in

479
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 3: most arenas. I wonder if that encourages a guy like

480
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,440
Speaker 3: Lebron to maybe take off more games early on here,

481
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 3: like you said with that quick turnaround, Kirk, And what

482
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 3: I mean by that is Lebron does feel like the

483
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 3: guy as the face of the league that like Jordan

484
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 3: was like this right, or he talked about it like, look,

485
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 3: these people are coming, they're paying good money to come

486
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,439
Speaker 3: and see me. Maybe that one time of year, if

487
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 3: I'm over now in the East playing on a Western

488
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 3: Conference team, I'm in the arena. You know, it's it's

489
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 3: like a duty of mine to show up and put

490
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 3: on a show. But you remove them from the equation,

491
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 3: the fans in most arenas. Again, Oh maybe he's more

492
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,719
Speaker 3: likely to like chill a little bit and take that

493
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 3: random game off. And not that he wouldn't every once

494
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:48,919
Speaker 3: in a while too, but take that game off in

495
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,400
Speaker 3: Charlotte or wherever in you know, Detroit or something like that.

496
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,199
Speaker 3: But all that said, I think he loves playing in

497
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 3: these games. I think he's such a numbers guy. He's

498
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,200
Speaker 3: like a Kirk Goldberry out there for crying that. He's hey,

499
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 3: he wants to catch I think you know, kareem all

500
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 3: time points scored. Well, you got if you're going to

501
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 3: do that, you got to play in the games and

502
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 3: put up twenty five thirty, you know, for a good

503
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 3: still a couple of years here. I think I don't

504
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 3: have it in front of you. But he's got to

505
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 3: obviously put up some scoring numbers still here to catch him.

506
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 3: I think he wants that, and so then that makes

507
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 3: me think I'm more with you, Kirk. I don't think

508
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,399
Speaker 3: he actually takes off that many games here in this season,

509
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 3: personally in the regular season.

510
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,120
Speaker 1: I don't know if Trey you have an opinion on it.

511
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,640
Speaker 2: Well, Kirk, like you said, Lebron also load managers during

512
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 2: the games, right, you guys able to just hang out

513
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 2: on the perimeter and lead the league in assists, and

514
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 2: then when it actually comes playoff time, oh yeah, I'll

515
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 2: actually take the most shots in the paint of any player.

516
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 2: That didn't make any sense to me. He's also playing

517
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 2: alongside Anthony Davis, who is basically load management in his

518
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 2: own right. You mentioned in the piece, Kirk, the most

519
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,160
Speaker 2: assist between players went from Lebron to a d and then,

520
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 2: by the way, Anthony Davis also had his best season

521
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 2: isolating the basketball. Lebron has load management built in. Is

522
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 2: there a better possible teammate for him than Anthony Davis?

523
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 2: A guy who can sop up possessions, who can get

524
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 2: easy baskets off Lebron passes, who also scores inside, who

525
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 2: also does everything on the defensive end. I honestly feel

526
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 2: like we underrate the rate the Lakers as a duo

527
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 2: right now because Lebron is still the best player in

528
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 2: the game when he turns it up to full strength,

529
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 2: and even when he's not playing at full strength, he's

530
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 2: playing alongside Lebron Anthony Davis, who is the fourth best

531
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 2: player in the league. These guys are incredible, so I

532
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 2: don't think they have to go out and give the

533
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 2: full effort to get the wins to put up the stats,

534
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 2: because if both of them are playing ninety five percent strength,

535
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 2: they're gonna be one hundred and twenty percent strength between

536
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 2: the two of them. I don't know if this actually

537
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 2: adds up statistically, but it makes sense in my head.

538
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 2: It's easy for Lebron. He can chill because he's got

539
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 2: Anthony Davis. It's easy for Anthony Davis. He can chill

540
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 2: he's got Lebron. It works nice.

541
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

542
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 4: I think you guys hit all the main points. Essentially,

543
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,120
Speaker 4: Lebron is balancing three things. He's chasing Kareem, like Lee said,

544
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,120
Speaker 4: he wants that record. Who wouldn't want that record. He's

545
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 4: chasing Jordan's six titles, which is sort of in at

546
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 4: odds with chasing chasing Kareem because you want to be

547
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 4: at your.

548
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: Best in the playoffs.

549
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,239
Speaker 4: And then the last thing, as you pointed out, this

550
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 4: is a guy who takes great pride in putting on

551
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 4: the show for the family that comes to watch him

552
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 4: play in Detroit or Charlotte. And I think Skeets you

553
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 4: hit on the sneaky, really important point here. With no

554
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 4: fans in the building, it really offers him an out

555
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 4: to sit some of these games. And I think, you know,

556
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 4: Trey great point, even if Lebron sits, you still have

557
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 4: Anthony Davis out there.

558
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: They could beat Detroit in that game without Lebron, you know.

559
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 4: So I think I think the coaching staff, Lebron and

560
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 4: and the front office could look at the schedule and

561
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 4: tactically manage some some load here and and mega Lebron

562
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 4: sort of you know, optimized for all these three things

563
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 4: like still being the ambassador of the league, the face

564
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 4: of the league, not missing those prime time tilt but

565
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 4: being in tip top shape for April, May and June,

566
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 4: and still chasing that Kareem record, which he's probably three

567
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 4: seasons away from. I think if he keeps going, so

568
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 4: it's incredible, no one.

569
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 5: He's about four thousand points behind him. So let's say

570
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 5: he played you know, seventy games a season for the

571
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 5: next three seasons, it only need to average about twenty

572
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 5: two or so a game in those games, which I

573
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 5: think he can get twenty two game still pretty easily,

574
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 5: you know. I mean, he can shoot the three. Of course,

575
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 5: he gets a line and we just know with Lebron

576
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 5: when he wants to score, he goes and score, so

577
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 5: I think it's a matter of time before he gets

578
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 5: Kareem And actually I think he probably gets forty thousand

579
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 5: before he's all done, because I just think he is

580
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 5: going to keep on wanting to play and put that

581
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 5: record out of reach for someone like it Kevin Durand

582
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 5: as well, who's you know, you know, he's probably got

583
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 5: that in the back of his mind. But of course

584
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 5: he missed a big, big chunk of last year in

585
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 5: this season as well.

586
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 3: Well, let's talk a little MVP then, why not? I

587
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 3: mean a little predictions here if Lebron okay, let's just

588
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 3: Lebron out of the equation, because let's say he's a

589
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 3: little smart, he's looking ahead to championship number five, so

590
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 3: that means, okay, we'll take these games off and let's

591
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 3: just say doesn't play enough games. Who would you have

592
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 3: at the top of your lead aboard right now, Kirk

593
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 3: for an MVP favorite heading into the twenty twenty twenty one.

594
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 4: Season, I think it's disrespectful not to start with the

595
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 4: guys win the last two. Jana Sante Tokumbo, He's incredible.

596
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 4: I think he is the best two way player in

597
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 4: the game right now. With all due respect to Kawhi Leonard,

598
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 4: Giannis's defensive numbers and rim protection and rebounding numbers are

599
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 4: insane for any player, let alone somebody who's scoring twenty

600
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 4: six to twenty seven points to night. On the other end,

601
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 4: his efficiency as a scorer, and then of course you

602
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 4: look at the Bucks record over the last few years.

603
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 4: It's a regular season award guys, and this guy has

604
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 4: clearly been the most valuable player of the last two years.

605
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 4: So my list, out of respect and out of what

606
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 4: I think is going to happen this year, starts with

607
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 4: that guy below him. I'm putting Durant because I think

608
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 4: he's been there before and he's got a chip on

609
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 4: his shoulder. In the Eastern Conference is his to take

610
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 4: and I could really see that happening, him putting up

611
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 4: thirty ten, just dominating the Eastern Conference. And then I think,

612
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 4: you know players in the Western Conference. Obviously Harden is

613
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 4: in there too, but he's got a lot of uncertainty.

614
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 4: So if I had to go out West with one player,

615
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 4: I think Kawhi Leonard sneaks in there. WHOA yeah, I

616
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 4: think Kawhi Leonard is in a contract here.

617
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: How about that?

618
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,959
Speaker 4: That's true, breaking news. This is contract year Kawhi Leonard.

619
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 4: He's got something to prove. He does not enjoy looking

620
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 4: over to the other side of staples and seeing banners,

621
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 4: and so I'd keep an eye on him. He's in

622
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 4: his prime skeets and he is mad, and so why

623
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 4: not include him in my top three candidates.

624
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 3: So I guess if you have him in the top

625
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 3: three candidates, you are assuming that you know, the classic

626
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 3: Kawhi load management is maybe dialed back, and that he's

627
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 3: playing more than he has with the last two seas.

628
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 4: Let's say, yeah, I would think so, but you know,

629
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 4: I do think that's the giant red flag. He only

630
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 4: plays fifty three of the seventy two, and he rules

631
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 4: himself out. I think that's the most likely reason why

632
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 4: he's not in there. And so yeah, I think you

633
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 4: factor that in. Maybe they find creative ways to manage

634
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 4: his load. But I won't be surprised if he's out

635
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 4: of contention simply because of what we've see in the

636
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 4: last few years. Totally fair point.

637
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 3: I love the respect you're showing. Free honest, we're all

638
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 3: honest fans. I assume most people are in the world.

639
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 3: Why wouldn't you be. But I just cannot see a

640
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 3: path for him to go back to back to back

641
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 3: for MVP because, like you said, yeah, it's a regular

642
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 3: season award. Well, guess what all these voters they have

643
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 3: in the back of their mind what they just saw

644
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 3: in the last two playoffs, specially the most recent one.

645
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 3: And I know he was injured, that comes into play,

646
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 3: but that you know, that's a it's a little that

647
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 3: sour some of the voters, I think. And then I

648
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 3: just don't know, like, how could his numbers at all

649
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 3: be better? Maybe they will be, but how could they

650
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 3: be better than what he's putting up now, even if

651
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 3: they are the number one seed. I've been there, done that.

652
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 3: I just can't, like, I can't wrap my head around

653
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 3: the numbers or the efficiency or whatever going undefeated or

654
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 3: whatever it is to get the voters on board for

655
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 3: a third consecutive year when you know Lebron hasn't done it,

656
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 3: MJ not doing it. Like last person to do it,

657
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 3: I think, is Larry Bird still right? I I just

658
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 3: I just can't see it happening despite outside of the

659
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 3: bucks you know, going perfect seventy two and oher and

660
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 3: I guess the thirty ten and ten from honest, am

661
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 3: I am? I crazy, Leah. I mean, can you see

662
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 3: like Kirk saying, like the possibility of that he could

663
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 3: do it again.

664
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 5: See kicks take was really measured, reasoned, and that's behind it.

665
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 5: And so now I'm convinced, actually honest, he's going to

666
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,959
Speaker 5: because because you know, you mentioned the defense, you've impact

667
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 5: the record, and he's just going to go out that

668
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 5: he's got something to prove as well as far as

669
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 5: he's going to get his team back I think to

670
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 5: that number one spot.

671
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 3: So no, no, no, that's not the narrative, though I know,

672
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 3: I know Leanis has got to get the Bucks back

673
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 3: to the number one seat so they can lose in

674
00:30:58,280 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 3: the second roarty.

675
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 5: But the coin is again like Kirk is saying that

676
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 5: it is a regular season award, so maybe we sort

677
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 5: of overestimated just how much of the voters will sort

678
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 5: of almost handicap Yarnis this year by saying, listen, we

679
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 5: want to see you do it in the playoffs first.

680
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 5: But I mean the thing is, I think you know,

681
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 5: and I know we made our picks there and we

682
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 5: all I think we all have different picks. In the end.

683
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 5: I think we all sort of assume though Yannis will

684
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 5: be sort of top two or three anyway, just simply

685
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 5: because he is going to put up those numbers. But yeah,

686
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 5: narrative and story comes into play. And I don't know

687
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 5: if you've been a voter, Kirk or not, but you

688
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 5: know if you are, so if you were, though, would

689
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 5: you how would you go about the voting process? Do

690
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 5: you think would you look at numbers, analytics or wins, narrative?

691
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 5: You know what, what sort of factors would you take

692
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 5: into account?

693
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 4: I think I know it to my perch, as the

694
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 4: numbers get to be pretty objective.

695
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 3: The idea of your going through the numbers. I just

696
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 3: like this game.

697
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: Westbrook again, I mean Westbrook.

698
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 4: No. I think my role in the ecosystem would be

699
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 4: if you if they win equivalent of seventy games or something,

700
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 4: and he does what I think he will do.

701
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: You know, he's early prime.

702
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 4: Still like I still expect it, so I think you

703
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 4: can't let that factor it in. That said, if somebody

704
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 4: like Luka Doncic comes out and they're the three seed

705
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 4: in the West and he's averaged thirty three points and

706
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 4: eleven assists and nine rebounds, I do think it even

707
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 4: a voter like me in theory, would get to a

708
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 4: tipping point where where if it's close, you go Doncic

709
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 4: because he hasn't won one yet and that's a new flavor.

710
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 4: So I think that is something that's totally at play.

711
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 4: For Yannis to win the third in the row, he

712
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 4: needs to be far and away the choice. I think

713
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 4: that is a relevant fair pointly.

714
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 3: Let's talk a little hard and again, because you threw

715
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 3: him in there in the MVP mix because when he plays,

716
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 3: I mean, he's unbelievable. He's a the thirty point per

717
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 3: night guy easily, if not more. We heard reports here

718
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 3: this morning from Shaan's that Harden is maybe getting a

719
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 3: little frustrated with not having been dealt yet or with

720
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 3: whatever's going on in Houston. He may have thrown a

721
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 3: basketball at a rookie in practice. Okay, so tensions boiling

722
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 3: over now. Houston said they wanted to get uncomfortable, so

723
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 3: maybe they're loving this because now things are getting uncomfortable

724
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 3: with these reports. Do you think, Kirk that Harden will

725
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 3: be moved, you know, look, maybe with in the next

726
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 3: twenty four hours or at least before the deadline, or

727
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 3: will Houston try and ride this out. He is under

728
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 3: contract for a couple more seasons. How do you see

729
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 3: the Harden sort of saga playing out here? And where

730
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 3: do you think even he fits best.

731
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 4: I think he fits best wherever he is, and that's

732
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 4: a cop out answer, but I have so much respect

733
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 4: for his game that I'm not worried about James Harden.

734
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 4: I think he's one of the few guys that can

735
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 4: sort of shut everything off around him and go out

736
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 4: and dominate games. And I think there is something to

737
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 4: be said that, you know, he's had a rocky offseason.

738
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 4: There's been a lot of change in Houston, obviously the coach,

739
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 4: the general manager, some of the rosters turned around. But

740
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 4: at the end of the day, when it's a jump

741
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 4: ball and he's on one side, that team is going

742
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,879
Speaker 4: to have offensive efficiency and a chance to win the game.

743
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 4: And wherever he goes, that team is a really good offense.

744
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 4: And so I think if everything holds steady in Houston,

745
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 4: which is a big if, I think people are overlooking

746
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:27,720
Speaker 4: the Rockets. They have John Wall, Christian Wood, DeMarcus Cousins, PJ. Tucker,

747
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 4: Eric Gordon. I think the tumult of the offseason is

748
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 4: isn't something to ignore.

749
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 1: But I think once the.

750
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,240
Speaker 4: Ball is tipped, if those guys are out there together,

751
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 4: that's a pretty good team. And they got question marks

752
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 4: with the coach in the front office, but they don't

753
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 4: have question marks on the roster in my opinion, assuming

754
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:46,760
Speaker 4: they're out there together.

755
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely think they could be a playoff team

756
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 2: if for whatever reason, Harden sticks with the Rockets the

757
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 2: entire season. John Wall DeMarcus Cousin, Sure you could talk

758
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 2: me into it. Did you ever have an uncomfortable moment

759
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 2: though Kirk with the Spurs. Did Bryn Forbes ever whip

760
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 2: a ball at Yakam Perdle or something like that.

761
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 4: No, I have never seen that happen in a practice

762
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 4: gym since about fourth grade, and I think I was

763
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 4: the one whipping the ball.

764
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 2: I like the report where they're like, actually on game

765
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 2: days though Hardin is totally engaged talking up teammates about

766
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 2: how we can get better. He's saying, Hey, we're playing today,

767
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,760
Speaker 2: give me the ball. I'll go score every point. It's cool.

768
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, it'll be interesting, but you know, I don't know

769
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 4: where that shakes out to just go full circle. But

770
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 4: if James Harden is out there he's another iron man,

771
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 4: by the way, talk about Lebron like this guy. Lord

772
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 4: knows he doesn't take care of his body as well

773
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 4: as some plays.

774
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,879
Speaker 3: No, no, no, that's his spinach. And staying out late

775
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 3: that makes him stronger. Seems like a Iverson scenario.

776
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 1: Honestly, Yeah, that's his spinach. Yeah. I don't know.

777
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll see.

778
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 2: I don't know.

779
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 3: This could go very I mean it might be appearing

780
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 3: to go this way like Jimmy Butler when he was

781
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 3: with Minnesota, right, I mean, it's like, okay, trade me,

782
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 3: I want out of here. And then all we heard

783
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,760
Speaker 3: from Minnesota was like it's okay, everybody's on the safe page.

784
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 3: Tims of saying that, and everybody's like trying to like

785
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 3: kumbayad up, and it's like no, it's getting worse and

786
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 3: worse by the day. Now it's just whether or not

787
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 3: Harden will take the Jimmy Butler route. I mean, they're

788
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 3: two different personalities. I don't know them personally, but you

789
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 3: assume they're two different type of people. And maybe he

790
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 3: does it, maybe he's a professional about it, but this

791
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 3: is a you know, a step in the Jimmy direction.

792
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 3: I guess back in the Minnesota if he's just chucking

793
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 3: balls at rookies. Not that this doesn't happen, I assume

794
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 3: in other teams, like, yeah, the Star's upset with young players. Yeah,

795
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,479
Speaker 3: I'm sure there's like tension. They're trying to be better.

796
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 3: But if he's just checked out, oh boy, then they'll

797
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 3: have to move on from him. I did have a

798
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 3: question though, because you were in a front office. We

799
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 3: always hear these things kirk of like, well, they don't

800
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 3: want to trade them to a Western Conference team, get

801
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 3: them out of the conference, trade them somewhere else. Is

802
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 3: that true? Do those like conversations legit happen. I always

803
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 3: wondered that, Oh.

804
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 4: For sure, especially with players of this magnitude Skins, because

805
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,399
Speaker 4: the owners get involved and the owners don't want, say

806
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 4: a player to go to a regional rival. That's a

807
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 4: real thing. You know, somebody going from you know, the

808
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 4: Celtics to the Sixers. It's happened, but it is a consideration.

809
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 4: Somebody going from Houston to the Lakers, somebody from going

810
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 4: from the Spurs to the Mavericks.

811
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 1: These things are real. These owners feel.

812
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 4: These relationships, they feel this competitiveness, and I think one

813
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,240
Speaker 4: of the characters who obviously is super important to watch

814
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 4: in this saga is Tillman. This guy has a loud personality.

815
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 4: I believe his book is called shut Up and Listen.

816
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:39,439
Speaker 1: If I'm not.

817
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 3: So, I don't you should have named that much shut

818
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 3: Up and read this.

819
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: Shut Up in charts, But no.

820
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,240
Speaker 4: I think that is an interesting dynamic that is often

821
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 4: under discussed skeets is what does the owner want or

822
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 4: not want to happen? And I think as it relates

823
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 4: to Tillman, there's the regional Western Conference stuff, the contender

824
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 4: stuff that's relevant.

825
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 1: There's also the Philadelphia.

826
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 4: Thing where our friend Darryl Mory landed. And I'm not

827
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 4: going to say that's going to be a no fly

828
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 4: zone for a potential deal. I am definitely going to

829
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 4: say that that's being factored into the equation and it

830
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 4: should and people shouldn't like, oh that doesn't matter.

831
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: No, that matters.

832
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 4: Relationships matter in the world, breaking news, and these guys

833
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 4: are competitive just like the players. So it does factor in,

834
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 4: particularly at the ownership level with players as good as James.

835
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 3: Yeah.

836
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 5: Was that the same though in San Antonio? Because the

837
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 5: stability we always come to know with the Spurs, I

838
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 5: believe is largely because the owner sort of stays out

839
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 5: and lets Bufford and Popovich make all those decisions. So

840
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 5: was was that always the same in San Antonio? Was

841
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 5: it basically just Bufford and Popovich who had the final

842
00:38:58,680 --> 00:38:59,720
Speaker 5: say on personnel moves?

843
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: I think laid era Spurs for sure.

844
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 4: I think when when things got off the ground and

845
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 4: Coach Popovich was a relatively obscure Pomona College or you know,

846
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 4: relatively obscure person in the front office, he would say

847
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 4: that he learned a lot from the ownership group of

848
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 4: the Spurs, and they they helped form the culture that

849
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 4: we now associate with with RC and pop But the

850
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 4: values based leadership that the whole family has brought to

851
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 4: San Antonio has been a huge part of the culture.

852
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 4: And again I learned when I was in a front

853
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 4: office that the owners are super important, super important to culture,

854
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 4: and you can see it in every organization in different ways.

855
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: Lee.

856
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 4: But Yeah, anybody who thinks that you're you're trading a

857
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 4: player a GM can trade anybody of the caliber of

858
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,879
Speaker 4: James Harden without a phone call an agreement from the ownership, right,

859
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,720
Speaker 4: That's not happening, yea, And especially in this newer generation

860
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:02,240
Speaker 4: of sort of the Cuban esque U hands on owners. Yeah,

861
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 4: you know, you're not trading Luka Doncic without Mark Cuban,

862
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 4: you know, so the GM has to go through. So

863
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 4: I think, as I said, yeah, ownership matters. What you're

864
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 4: talking about San Antonio, Dallas, Houston, Philadelphia, all these people

865
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 4: are super important to the decisions and the cultures of

866
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 4: these institutions.

867
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,360
Speaker 3: Right, and it comes down to that specific owner, like

868
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 3: you're saying, Kirk. One owner could be like, you know,

869
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 3: you call and say, hey, look, we want to trade

870
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 3: so and so our star player. And they may be like,

871
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 3: all right, well, go get the best deal. You know,

872
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 3: it's in your hands. Go get the best trade package,

873
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 3: back draft picks, other players, whatever. Well another owner might say, well,

874
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 3: hold on, we're not just trading them to the guy

875
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 3: that just left our organization. No, no, no, we're not

876
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 3: doing that, or we're not trading them to Arrival like

877
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 3: you said. Yeah. So I'm sure every owner, as you're saying,

878
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 3: is different of how they come about it. Some are like, probably, okay,

879
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 3: do whatever you got to do, whatever is the best

880
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 3: thing for our franchise moving forward, do it, And some

881
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 3: are either going to take it personal or because they're

882
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 3: so competitive, or like, no, we're not doing that. I'm

883
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 3: vetoing that one, let's say, or it's got to get

884
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 3: more for that return. So yeah, okay, I'm glad I

885
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 3: figured that was the case. But you never know because

886
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 3: you always just hear that, especially the conference one, and

887
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 3: I'm like, do we know this for sure? Okay, I

888
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 3: guess it is a thing. So let's talk teams this season?

889
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 3: To you, Kirk, that are the most confusing to figure out.

890
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 3: I know, our good friends I think it was Arnovitz

891
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 3: and Zach Lowe had a podcast on this. It was

892
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,439
Speaker 3: a great one. Confusing teams. Who's at the top your list?

893
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 3: Tough to figure out.

894
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 4: Phoenix Suns because I really want them to be good,

895
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 4: but they haven't been in the playoffs since I think

896
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 4: I was like fifteen years old. It seems like they

897
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 4: had those old uniforms and Barkley was running around it.

898
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:44,280
Speaker 4: That's an exaggeration, obviously, but I think if everything goes

899
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,439
Speaker 4: right in Phoenix, they could be really good like last

900
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 4: year's Oklahoma City team, Like just like a team you

901
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 4: don't want anything to do with, sneaky playoff upset kind

902
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 4: of team or they could be right back where we've

903
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 4: been accustomed to seeing them in the lottery. So I

904
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 4: think they have a real high ceiling floor, sort of

905
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 4: box splot for lack of a better term. And I

906
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:13,280
Speaker 4: think they're my most confusing. And then in the Eastern Conference, ah, jeez,

907
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 4: I just the Eastern Conference is so chock full of candidates.

908
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 4: But you know, I really have so much respect for Toronto,

909
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 4: but I think they could be anywhere. You could tell

910
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,439
Speaker 4: me that the two seed or the seventh seed. Yeah,

911
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 4: and I could see that happening skates. And I'm curious

912
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 4: if if that counts as confusing or if that's just

913
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 4: like uncertainty.

914
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 3: I think that's more uncertainty. But I know where you're

915
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 3: coming from with that, like, because I think we're all

916
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 3: agreeing with the Raptors if they're guys as I listed

917
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 3: off the top, their main guys that they've locked up

918
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 3: in Siakam van vleet Nogi. Of course Lowry's there, and

919
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 3: they're well coached, Like there's gonna be a good team

920
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 3: with those guys out there, because those guys are just

921
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 3: like they just feel like professional basketball players and they're competent.

922
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 3: They all seem to get along. They put in the

923
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:58,879
Speaker 3: effort on both ends, so it's like that's just gonna

924
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,479
Speaker 3: translate into a lot of wins against crappy teams most nights.

925
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 3: But like they did last year, you see them struggling

926
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 3: at times with good teams and great teams in the league.

927
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:09,360
Speaker 3: It's not a lock that they can win those games.

928
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 3: So I hear your gap there. You know, does Siakam

929
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 3: go next level? Does he bounce back after the terrible bubble?

930
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 3: Does Oji? Like I said, is he in the running

931
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 3: for most improved? What's Lowry Lake again? As he gets older?

932
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 3: And then van Vliet? Can Van van Veep be like

933
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 3: a twenty two point per game score? I mean, that

934
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 3: seems far fetched to me, but then the guy always

935
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 3: proves me wrong because he's he's just a rock and

936
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 3: he's always betting on himself and it works out for him.

937
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 3: So yeah, I understand the gap though.

938
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 4: They're starting to remind me of the Spurs a little

939
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 4: bit in this in this sense a bunch of boring players,

940
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 4: and I'm not calling them boring, And that's like the

941
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 4: sort of the perception out there a boring market. Again,

942
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 4: not my words, just that the sort of the vibe

943
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 4: I get people are they're always going to win fifty

944
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 4: games as Messia. I think they've won fifty games every year.

945
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 4: With me, they're close to it, similar to Tim Duncan, right,

946
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,879
Speaker 4: just like you just say you're watch by it. Maybe

947
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 4: one or two All Stars, but not like superstar All Stars.

948
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 4: So I think they are starting to get a little

949
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 4: bit of that spurs Ish reputation, which is great, sustainable greatness,

950
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 4: but kind of boring. So folks are overlooking. You're never

951
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 4: going to take them as Oh I'm putting them in

952
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 4: the two seed, but man like you're saying top five defense,

953
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 4: top ten offense. That looks like a top three team

954
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 4: in the East to me, And that's where I would expect.

955
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: Them to fall.

956
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,879
Speaker 4: One injury though, if Pascal gets hurt, if Kyle gets hurt,

957
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 4: missus time, and it might not be an injury this year.

958
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,320
Speaker 4: And that's the sad truth about this season. Sure the

959
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 4: guys are going to miss time, teams are going to

960
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 4: miss games. We don't know what's going to shake out.

961
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 4: That said, the formula in Toronto is super sustainable, not

962
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 4: that spicy, ironically, so it doesn't it doesn't get a

963
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 4: lot of attention out there in the twitters verse outside

964
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 4: of Toronto, but I would put them a sort of confusing.

965
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 3: What else, well, I think like one more comparison there

966
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 3: to make between the Spurs and the Raptors, And we

967
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 3: were sort of talking about it when we're talking about ownership,

968
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 3: like Messi and Bobby Webster, they are very Spurs like,

969
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,320
Speaker 3: where there's just no leaks, there's no drama, there's no

970
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 3: it's just business, you know, they just go about it.

971
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 3: I just feel like nothing gets out to an incredible

972
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 3: group of you know, Raptors reporters out there. It's not

973
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:24,359
Speaker 3: like they're not doing their job. I just don't think

974
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 3: anything is happening that is making you know, front page

975
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 3: news like some other teams. And that's of course goes

976
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:33,839
Speaker 3: down to the players on their roster too. As I said,

977
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 3: just seems like just a bunch of professional guys, like

978
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:38,839
Speaker 3: show up, lunch pail in hand, let's get to work

979
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:40,839
Speaker 3: and win fifty games, like you said. So I see

980
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 3: that comparison to like, the culture that the Raptors have

981
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 3: put in place is Spurs like, and I know we've

982
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 3: talked about it before, Lee, that's amazing when you think

983
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 3: of the Raptors culture like a decade ago, which was

984
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,479
Speaker 3: the exact opposite of now what they've put in place,

985
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 3: and that just speaks to Massaia I.

986
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:56,399
Speaker 1: Think more than yeah.

987
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 5: I mean you just go back through history. You know

988
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 5: Stodama I didn't want to stay, Cam to stay McGrady,

989
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 5: Vince Carter, Chris Bosh. I mean, these guys were star players,

990
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 5: but they felt that they weren't going to win it

991
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 5: all in Toronto and they couldn't be successful. And then

992
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 5: really it was Lowry and Derozen and Messilla. Jerry got

993
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 5: lucky really with Kyle Lowry that trade falling through to

994
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 5: the Knicks. I mean, that's a classic sliding doors moment there.

995
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 5: What would have happened if that trade had gone through?

996
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 5: You know, the Raptors, I don't think probably go on

997
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 5: to win the championship, But ultimately they have built that

998
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 5: model franchise stability, which, as you allude to there, Kirk,

999
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 5: it's kind of boring, but that boring is pretty successful

1000
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 5: over time. I mean, that's what the Spurs have done

1001
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 5: last season, the first time in twenty two years since

1002
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 5: they didn't even make the playoffs, and they still nearly

1003
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 5: did in the end there, So that is considering what

1004
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 5: happened to the Vancouver Grizzlies after only six years. You know,

1005
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 5: the Raptors looked like they were heading in that same

1006
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 5: direction there for a while, but instead now they've turned

1007
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 5: it around to become what every you know what, certainly

1008
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 5: what most franchises aim to be.

1009
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 4: Like.

1010
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 3: Who do you have Kirk pegged for a potential breakout season.

1011
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 3: You're looking at your maps, You're looking at your numbers,

1012
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,439
Speaker 3: crunching everything in terms of players. Who do you see

1013
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 3: maybe going next level? And that could be from obviously

1014
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,320
Speaker 3: a bad player to maybe a competent good player, or

1015
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 3: a good player to sort of a great player. What

1016
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 3: are you focusing on?

1017
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,760
Speaker 4: The first one that comes to mind, Skeets is Devin Booker,

1018
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 4: who I think is already a great player, so it

1019
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 4: might not be a great answer, but Devin Booker, I

1020
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 4: think in a better offense where he can have Chris

1021
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 4: Paul helping out, drawing defensive attention, taking a few heart

1022
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 4: less hard shots each haf taking a few more easy shots.

1023
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 4: I think he has durant ish level potential as a scorer,

1024
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 4: can dominate everywhere on the basketball court if he's in

1025
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 4: an offense that allows him to have a little bit

1026
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 4: more space, a little bit less defensive attention.

1027
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:49,399
Speaker 1: So he's at the top of the list.

1028
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 4: And then I guess I love Jason Tatum and it's

1029
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 4: sort of the same story over there. I think he

1030
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 4: is a brilliant two way player who's going to be

1031
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 4: a thirty point scorer at some point.

1032
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: This might be the year.

1033
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,280
Speaker 4: So those are sort of cop outs, I think, because

1034
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:10,439
Speaker 4: they're already really good.

1035
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,359
Speaker 3: Well, they're All Star players, but it sounds like you're thinking, well,

1036
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 3: they might be starting to get in MVP consideration if

1037
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 3: their team puts up enough wins. No, that's Tatum sort

1038
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 3: there too.

1039
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: That's right.

1040
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 4: I think they're going from All Stars to All Stars

1041
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:25,359
Speaker 4: starter level player. So those are my two. But that's

1042
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 4: a great question. Why don't you guys answer it?

1043
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:30,800
Speaker 3: But do you have Trey? Do you have anyone on

1044
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:31,439
Speaker 3: the top of mine?

1045
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 2: A different Celtic. Actually, just because i'm a little I'm

1046
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 2: a little bit with you already, Kirk. I think Jason

1047
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:38,919
Speaker 2: Tatum is awesome, and I think he'll be approaching thirty

1048
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 2: points per game. Maybe he's the new Carmelo Anthony. You know,

1049
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 2: he just gets buckets. Not an incredible creator for his

1050
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 2: teammates playmaker, but he certainly got better at that in

1051
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 2: the bubble And I think that's another big question that

1052
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 2: I would have with the Suns. How good are they

1053
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 2: are they actually eight to zero in the bubble? Good?

1054
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,240
Speaker 2: I don't know. But the other Celtic that I'm expecting

1055
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 2: a breakout year from is Jalen Brown. I just think

1056
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 2: he's going to have a lot more responsibility. He's another

1057
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 2: guy who is incredible in transition and can sometimes struggle

1058
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 2: to get a good look in a half court setting.

1059
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 2: He's got to get a little bit better putting the

1060
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 2: ball on the ground. But with Kemba Walker being hurt

1061
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 2: to start the season, it's going to be January before

1062
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 2: he returns. Who knows exactly what it's going to be

1063
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 2: like when he's there. I'm sure Jalen Brown will be

1064
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 2: in position to put up some big numbers, to have

1065
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 2: a little bit more responsibility offensively, and Brad Stevens usually

1066
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 2: does a pretty good job of getting his guys in

1067
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 2: the right place, So I'm looking forward to see you

1068
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 2: what Jalen brings.

1069
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 3: Jalen Brown's a good one. We had the debate last

1070
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:36,800
Speaker 3: year at the All Star time, like is it Jalen

1071
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 3: Brown or is it Jason Tatum, as I guess would

1072
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 3: have been at the time, the second Celtic to make

1073
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 3: it because Kemba was starting the All Star Game. Lee,

1074
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 3: do you have anyone breakout player?

1075
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 5: Well, I want to see playoff Jamal Murray become regular

1076
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:50,320
Speaker 5: season Jamal Murray as well, which is kind of you know,

1077
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 5: I mean, playoffs is obviously with the biggest stage at

1078
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 5: Broader Lots, and he's been incredible last year and even

1079
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,839
Speaker 5: actually the season before against the Spurs in that first round,

1080
00:49:58,320 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 5: you know, in the end turned into a bit of

1081
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:01,800
Speaker 5: an upst really, I think because even though the Nuggets

1082
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 5: had home court advantage, they lost that first game and

1083
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 5: it wasn't until that Jamal Murray rescued game really that

1084
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 5: got the Nuggets back on track. I think it was

1085
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 5: Game two, I guess it was, but down in the bubble,

1086
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 5: he just showed he really is ready to step up,

1087
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 5: and I was a little disappointed that he didn't really

1088
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 5: make a stronger push for the All Star Game last season.

1089
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 5: So I expect if Jamal Murray doesn't make the All

1090
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 5: Star you know selection, whatever they're going to call it

1091
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 5: this year, that'll be a little bit disappointing because I

1092
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 5: think he's a really, really he's a superstar in waiting

1093
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 5: right now, and he was just so fun to watch

1094
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 5: down there. He can get you those fifty points. He's

1095
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:38,359
Speaker 5: electric to watch, and you know, the Nuggets with him

1096
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 5: and Jokich, I think, you know, they're on that second tier,

1097
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:43,800
Speaker 5: but only just I think they really can keep pushing

1098
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 5: if those two stay together and continue to show the

1099
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 5: potential they've had so far.

1100
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 2: Kirk, what do you make of the bubble? Like? How

1101
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,720
Speaker 2: much or how much importance do you give to everything

1102
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 2: that happened down there? The Suns went eight to no

1103
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 2: you know, bam Adebayo looked like an even better playmaker,

1104
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 2: Jimmy Butler became a superstar. How much of this is

1105
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 2: going to carry over from the end of last season

1106
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:03,800
Speaker 2: into this season?

1107
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't see flukes there. I know some people do.

1108
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 4: The word has been used before. I was on Zach's

1109
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 4: podcast talking about this with with Miami a week or

1110
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 4: so ago, and you know some people see flukes. I

1111
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 4: don't see flukes the Miami Heat or a legit team.

1112
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 4: Bam out of Baio is a legit player. The Phoenix

1113
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 4: Suns won with really good play and Monti Williams's fingerprints

1114
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 4: are all over that and he's a great coach. And

1115
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 4: I think with Chris Paul there, I don't think they're

1116
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 4: going to go undefeated, but I think the Suns have

1117
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 4: a chance to be the sixth or the five seed.

1118
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 4: And I don't think I would have said that Tray

1119
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 4: if I didn't see that eight no in the bubble,

1120
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 4: and I didn't, I don't know if Chris Paul would

1121
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 4: be there if he didn't see that eight no in

1122
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 4: the bubble.

1123
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 1: So I think that's really interesting.

1124
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 4: I don't have I think some of the playoff series

1125
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:58,840
Speaker 4: were kind of flukey, especially the ones that went to

1126
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 4: seven games. Teams like Milwaukee can look at their experience,

1127
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 4: their teams like Boston be like, man, we didn't have

1128
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 4: those games in our home gyms with the fans. I

1129
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 4: think if there's a fluke in the bubble results, it

1130
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 4: has to do with the fans making noise, influencing.

1131
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 1: Games, refs players. Yeah, without that, I.

1132
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 4: Think there are some there's some there's some there's some differences.

1133
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 4: I mean, the home records in the bubble were it

1134
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 4: was hilarious to watch, you know, But so I think

1135
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 4: that that's it. I think I trust what I saw

1136
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 4: basketball wise, with the exception of maybe some minor home

1137
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:35,720
Speaker 4: court effects.

1138
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 3: Sure, and back to your Devin Booker point, like going

1139
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 3: next level. I mean, I'm a huge Booker fan. I

1140
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 3: think it's as simple as him becoming sort of, like

1141
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 3: you said, a starter in an All Star Game in

1142
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 3: the near future. It's as simple as just winning games

1143
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,319
Speaker 3: and people have taking notice of the Suns because they're

1144
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:53,359
Speaker 3: not you know, a thirty win team year after year

1145
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 3: after year. Once that team and maybe Chris Paul and

1146
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 3: improving DeAndre Ayton and the defensive wings they have around Booker,

1147
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 3: team like you're saying, is a fifth, fifth or sixth seed,

1148
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 3: I think, you know, Booker is suddenly like that, like

1149
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 3: sort of what happened with Jamal Murray in the playoffs,

1150
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 3: a star like immediately, because he's not incredible already at

1151
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 3: young age, He's only gonna get better. You would think

1152
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 3: they just start winning games. Well, then there's eyeballs on them,

1153
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 3: there's people talking about him, and then he's being included

1154
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 3: in all these conversations for you know, either on the

1155
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 3: longer list of MVP or starting All Star Games and

1156
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 3: all NBA selections and stuff like that, and like it's

1157
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 3: a weird comparison. I'm not comparing their games, but I'm

1158
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 3: showing my age a little bit here too. It's like,

1159
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 3: Mitch Richmond is what I always think of when I

1160
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 3: think of Booker, because like, I'm playing fantasy basketball when

1161
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 3: I'm younger. But I'm sure it's hell like not watching

1162
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 3: a bunch of Kings games when they were bad. Right,

1163
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 3: But you know, Mitch Richmond is out there in the

1164
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 3: West scoring his twenty five every night, and obviously as

1165
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 3: a talented player, becomes a Hall of Fame player, which

1166
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 3: is a little surprising even to me. But it's like

1167
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 3: we just didn't care until they started winning games and

1168
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 3: there was some success and you're like, oh, yeah, Mitch Richmond,

1169
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:56,959
Speaker 3: you know he starts going higher.

1170
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 2: No, Nobody says, well, maybe no, but he says that

1171
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 2: about it, right.

1172
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 3: And again, I wasn't comparing their games because Devin Booker

1173
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 3: is a much flashier sort of player and today's type

1174
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 3: of player I think that kids would fall in love with.

1175
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:11,399
Speaker 3: But my point is he's just out there scoring twenty

1176
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 3: five every night on a team that doesn't win games.

1177
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 3: It's tough to get all that excited for the casual fan,

1178
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:17,840
Speaker 3: I think, but you got to start adding some wins

1179
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 3: and you start going up the Western Conference standings. I

1180
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 3: think just people take note, and that's just sort of

1181
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 3: how it happens. You got to win some games for

1182
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 3: the casual fan, especially to give a damn is what

1183
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 3: I'm getting at.

1184
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, and the other one there in that same category

1185
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 4: as Karl Anthony Towns. Yes, obviously one of the most

1186
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:37,240
Speaker 4: talented big men in the entire game, but just doesn't

1187
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 4: have the wins to get him the attention. And he's

1188
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 4: another one to watch in this breakout sort of category.

1189
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:47,919
Speaker 4: I don't think I'm predicting it. I'm not that high

1190
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 4: on the Wolves, but with a guy like that at

1191
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 4: the center, you can't rule them out and they could

1192
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:53,800
Speaker 4: start winning.

1193
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: It would be an interesting story.

1194
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 4: But to the same point, I think, yeah, one of

1195
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 4: those two guys, Booker or Kat can get if they

1196
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:03,359
Speaker 4: start becoming a playoff player all of a sudden.

1197
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: It's just like, oh my, this guy's all pro all yeah. Yeah, yeah.

1198
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:09,400
Speaker 3: Well, talking about exciting players, let's get your thoughts on

1199
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,799
Speaker 3: LaMelo ball and what we've seen already in the preseason.

1200
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 3: I mean, the Twitter highlights are out there. In terms

1201
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 3: of passing the ball, He's thrown like three or four

1202
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 3: unbelievable dimes. He has struggled as we may expect it,

1203
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:22,879
Speaker 3: to shoot the ball at times, you know, a couple

1204
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 3: one for tens type of nights and offers from distance.

1205
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 3: But yeah, what is your thoughts on what you've seen

1206
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:29,440
Speaker 3: from him and moving forward and what type of player

1207
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:29,800
Speaker 3: he could be?

1208
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 1: Love it?

1209
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:32,879
Speaker 4: I think, you know, analytically, one thing you can't teach

1210
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 4: his passing. I think some guys come into the league

1211
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 4: with that and some guys don't. And you know, I

1212
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 4: think he obviously has it, and he's an unselfish player,

1213
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 4: and he has the court vision of an elite point guard.

1214
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:48,399
Speaker 1: And it's fun.

1215
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:52,239
Speaker 4: And the question is is he sort of become a

1216
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 4: really great playoff point guard or does he become sort

1217
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 4: of like a white chocolate sort of guy exists.

1218
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: You must watch Twitter highlights.

1219
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 4: You know, Perez, Rob Perez is tweeting about him, and

1220
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 4: that's about it.

1221
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 2: You know.

1222
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 4: It's not like you see the Charlotte Hornets at the

1223
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 4: top of the Eastern Conference standing. So that's really interesting.

1224
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 4: I think if his brother's career is anything to learn from.

1225
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 4: He's going to be a good defender too. Eventually, good

1226
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:25,279
Speaker 4: defensive instincts go with being a good passer. I think

1227
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 4: he has the potential to be an All Star, and

1228
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 4: I don't think that's going out on a limb. But

1229
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 4: if I'm in the Charlotte Hornets front office or James

1230
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 4: Brago's coaching staff, I'm thrilled with this guy potential to

1231
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 4: be a game changing point guard for the franchise. I'm

1232
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 4: less impressed with the super highlight. I'm more impressed with

1233
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 4: just finding the guy making the right play on a

1234
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 4: fast break and getting an easy layup that might not

1235
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 4: end up on on Sports Center, NBA Twitter.

1236
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 2: Right, as a guy who tracks shot locations, is it

1237
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:57,239
Speaker 2: important for the guy who has the ball all the

1238
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 2: time to be able to make shots or something that

1239
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 2: a team can get around, You know, if it's a

1240
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 2: good enough passer like Ben Simmons, is a good enough

1241
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 2: passer that he doesn't really need to shoot the ball

1242
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:08,479
Speaker 2: and the Sixers can still score.

1243
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's right. Try.

1244
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 4: I think Giannis is another good example, and Ben Simmons

1245
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 4: Russell Westbrook when he's going real well, like the first

1246
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 4: three months of twenty twenty. When you're an attack guard

1247
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 4: and you can finish at the rim, you don't need

1248
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 4: to hit jump shots. There's still a very narrow path

1249
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 4: to dominate the league from the point guard position without

1250
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 4: being a deadly shooter like Steph Curry, without being a

1251
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 4: step back master like James Harden. But that requires you

1252
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 4: to be really good at going up and down, really

1253
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 4: good at attacking the basketball hoop and causing problems for

1254
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 4: the defense and the paint, like Westbrook does at his best,

1255
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 4: like Simmons does it his best, and certainly as Giannis does.

1256
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 4: So if LaMelo can get to the rack and finish

1257
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 4: and then decorate the edges with these assists, yeah, he

1258
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 4: doesn't need to be shooting forty percent from three to

1259
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 4: be an All Star. That said, that should be his

1260
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 4: number one priority in the next three years of his

1261
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 4: career because that's where we are.

1262
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't wait for a decade like Jason Kidd.

1263
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 3: Get started early on it, because these are the comparisons

1264
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 3: who are already seeing and they do check out, I'll

1265
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 3: be honest, Like white chocolate for sure, Jason Williams and

1266
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 3: the type of passes that he's throwing here, in pre season.

1267
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 3: The Jason Kid comparison makes sense, Wow, can rebound, big guard,

1268
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:30,040
Speaker 3: incredible court vision. But we called him Ason Kidd right

1269
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 3: for a long time there when he was back on

1270
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 3: the Mavericks and talking about Tony Braxton back in the

1271
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 3: day he couldn't shoot, and he added that to his

1272
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 3: game and became a champion in Hall of Famer. And

1273
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 3: then there is the Lonzo comparison, because that makes sense.

1274
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:44,600
Speaker 3: His brother is in the NBA a couple of years

1275
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 3: ahead of him, so yeah, but that's the difference.

1276
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:48,400
Speaker 2: To me, what you hit on, Kirk, is that a

1277
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 2: guy like Jason Kidd, a guy like Ben Simmons, obviously Giannest,

1278
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 2: they're getting layups all the time. Lonzo is not a

1279
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 2: guy who gets last. He's a pretty poor free throw shooter.

1280
00:58:57,560 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 2: Seems like he doesn't want to go to the free

1281
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 2: throw line. He takes maybe to a game that's barely anything.

1282
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 2: So that that the shooting, no doubt outside for Mellow

1283
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 2: is going to be huge. But getting layups at the rim,

1284
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 2: that's still the best shot.

1285
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: Is that true?

1286
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 2: Is it still good to shoot layups and dunks?

1287
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:11,760
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1288
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 4: No, one hundred percent layups and dunks with respect to

1289
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 4: the title of the show up there, very good, very good,

1290
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 4: thank you. They are the best shots. And you know

1291
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 4: what else, Even the best shooters in the league, like

1292
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 4: Steph Curry went from a nice story to a two

1293
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 4: time MVP because in part he could threaten the rim,

1294
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 4: not like Westbrook and not like Simmons. But if you

1295
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 4: look at his numbers in the paint, you know, year one,

1296
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:40,439
Speaker 4: year two, year three, they were bad. When it really

1297
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 4: clicked for Steph, he could get in there with those

1298
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 4: flying floaters, finishing really creatively but at an efficient level.

1299
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 4: And it's a story we've seen with the most successful

1300
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 4: playoff point guards. Tony Parker is another great example. It

1301
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 4: is no business putting up sixty five percent in the

1302
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:58,840
Speaker 4: paint and leading the NBA from the guard position in

1303
00:59:58,920 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 4: points in the paint.

1304
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:00,160
Speaker 1: But he did it.

1305
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 4: And I think that is really a secret to players

1306
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 4: like Trey Young or Lamello Ball becoming elite is watch

1307
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 4: those finishing numbers, because yes, trade, the best shots in

1308
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 4: the game are still layups and dunks love.

1309
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 1: To hear it.

1310
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:19,120
Speaker 2: I gotta deal with all this anti big man bias

1311
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 2: from the skeeeds over here trying to tell me Zion

1312
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 2: Williamson's got boring highlights because all he does is dunk.

1313
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 1: Get out here.

1314
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 2: We love dunks.

1315
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, all right. Well, before we moved to the

1316
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 3: to the map portion of this podcast, which was the

1317
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 3: impetus for having you on, because we got we got

1318
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:37,080
Speaker 3: a lot of questions about this awesome map that you

1319
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 3: put together, We'll just put you on the spot here.

1320
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:41,400
Speaker 3: Who is your pick to win to win the title?

1321
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 3: Do you have the Lakers repeating? Do you believe in

1322
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 3: the Clippers and their chemistry? Is it somebody from the East?

1323
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 3: You know who you got in the finals, let's say,

1324
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 3: and who even wins finals MVP?

1325
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 4: My pick is the Milwaukee Bucks, and it's wow, it

1326
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 4: is it is time. And it's partly my pick because

1327
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 4: I think they have the easiest path.

1328
01:00:57,600 --> 01:00:58,480
Speaker 1: To the final round.

1329
01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 4: They're not in the Western Conference, and so as an analyst,

1330
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 4: I have to look at that. With all due respect

1331
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 4: to Brooklyn and Boston, the East is not as easy

1332
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:09,720
Speaker 4: as it was, don't get me wrong, but it's still

1333
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 4: not the West where you look at a team with.

1334
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 1: James Horden and John Wall and Christian Wooden and you're like, yeah,

1335
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 1: they're not that good.

1336
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 4: In the East, you know, you don't have that kind

1337
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 4: of depth, and I think Milwaukee deserves another chance. I

1338
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 4: think Giannis, if I don't have this number correct. You know,

1339
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:30,200
Speaker 4: Jordan was never in the finals at this age. He's

1340
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 4: a young player. He's still winning, learning to win those championships,

1341
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:37,560
Speaker 4: learning to win those playoff series. I should say in

1342
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 4: the same way that we gave Michael Jordan five six,

1343
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 4: seven years. You know, we talk about a sixty three

1344
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:44,920
Speaker 4: point game in the Garden. They lost that series, They

1345
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 4: lost a couple series in Detroit. Let's not forget before

1346
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 4: he finally got over the hump, but nobody was saying

1347
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 4: this guy is done and he can't do it at

1348
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 4: age twenty six.

1349
01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 1: So my pick is still the team that I've seen

1350
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 1: put up the best.

1351
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 4: Statistical markers, and the hope is that they play a

1352
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 4: little bit better in the playoffs this year and if

1353
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:09,640
Speaker 4: it falls apart, guys, it's going to fall apart in

1354
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 4: the playoffs again. For Milwaukee, I think they're built for

1355
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 4: greatness in the regular season. So my pick is Bucks Lakers,

1356
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 4: and I think I would take if that happened, I

1357
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 4: would take the Lakers, But because the Lakers have a

1358
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 4: harder path to get there. My overall pick for the

1359
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 4: title is the Milwaukee Bucks, folks, all right, and of.

1360
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 3: Course I would assume that would be a Jannis Finals MVP.

1361
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 3: The problem with your sort of MJ Bulls on the

1362
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:37,000
Speaker 3: come up comparison is that means Budenholzer is Doug Collins. Oh,

1363
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 3: and we got to find the Phil Jackson for you.

1364
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:39,600
Speaker 2: Honest.

1365
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 3: Hey, I'm being serious here too, as I don't think

1366
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:44,040
Speaker 3: the Bucks will ultimately do it, and if the Bucks

1367
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:46,440
Speaker 3: fall up short in the playoffs again, I think we

1368
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:49,360
Speaker 3: all would agree that Budenholzer would likely be gone outside

1369
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 3: of Jannis just saying nope, nope, that's my guy, don't

1370
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 3: get rid of them. But even Yiannis I think at

1371
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 3: that point would he not go. I mean, we got

1372
01:02:56,680 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 3: to try somebody else in here, a new voice in here.

1373
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 3: So I think they're looking for the Phil Jackson. Hey,

1374
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 3: maybe it's Phil Jackson worked for the Knicks. Yeah, okay,

1375
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 3: So Kirk SAand though going with the Bucks, I like

1376
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 3: that pick. That's a bold pick.

1377
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:10,439
Speaker 2: Okay.

1378
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 3: So let's talk about this map, TK. I know you're

1379
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:14,959
Speaker 3: going to lead us through this because this was really

1380
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 3: really cool, Kirk. We flashed it up earlier for everybody

1381
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:20,640
Speaker 3: joining us on the stream team Nae Smith International Part.

1382
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:23,480
Speaker 3: First question I'll get started, Tray. It's like, just how

1383
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 3: did this come to be? Did you have a weird

1384
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:28,440
Speaker 3: dream and this popped in your head? Therek Kirk, what happens?

1385
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 4: So I'll tell you exactly what happened, and thank you

1386
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 4: guys for giving it some attention. It's a real It

1387
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 4: turned into a passion project. But it started with a

1388
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 4: stupid Instagram post that never really happened. I was just

1389
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 4: going to look at like where the most commonplaces guys

1390
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:45,360
Speaker 4: were scoring the basketball were last season, which I do

1391
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:48,360
Speaker 4: every year. It's always near the hoop and around the

1392
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 4: three point line. And I started instead of mapping that

1393
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 4: with hexagons, did I'd like to do this time? I

1394
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 4: was doing a terrain metaphor, and the higher elevations were

1395
01:03:57,240 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 4: the areas where most of the points were scored in

1396
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 4: the nbawenty nineteen twenty, which is still the elevation of

1397
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 4: this map. And then I started to label some of

1398
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:09,120
Speaker 4: the places on there with Luka Doncis's shot from last year,

1399
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 4: with Anthony Davis's buzzer beater in the bubble, and then.

1400
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 1: You know, before I was like, what is this thing?

1401
01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 4: I threw on a couple of other like, oh, this

1402
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:20,840
Speaker 4: is where Jordan's shot against Byron Russell was on the map,

1403
01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:24,120
Speaker 4: and this is where ray Allen shot in twenty thirteen was.

1404
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:25,640
Speaker 1: And then before I knew it, I was like, oh no,

1405
01:04:26,080 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 1: this is now a fan So it like spiraled out

1406
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 1: of control.

1407
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:33,680
Speaker 4: Once I started adding these historical places to the map

1408
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:34,720
Speaker 4: that means so much.

1409
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,280
Speaker 1: I was like, I better not screw this up.

1410
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:39,480
Speaker 4: And so it went from something that was like a

1411
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:41,400
Speaker 4: week long time span to something that was like a

1412
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 4: three month long off season.

1413
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 2: That only made a mountain out of a molehill.

1414
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 1: There you go, tright.

1415
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:53,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, so now it has everything from Tyloo Falls right

1416
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 4: next to Iverston Crossing.

1417
01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 1: It's still my favorite.

1418
01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 4: It has you know, Chamberlain Mountain, which has an elevation

1419
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:03,600
Speaker 4: of ten thousand feet, which is referenced some of your audience.

1420
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 5: So it was I thought it was actually twenty thousand,

1421
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 5: to be honest, Oh was it twenty thousand? I thought, say,

1422
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 5: but I think it was liked to with Belichi's stories

1423
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 5: a little bit, but.

1424
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 1: You wouldn't know the details of that.

1425
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's close to twenty thousand.

1426
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 2: Days you can. I mean, you can look at this

1427
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 2: for literally hours, Hirk, Like there are so many parts,

1428
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 2: like you're saying, the way the Iverson and the Taylou

1429
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 2: all actually plays together in the bottom left corner. I

1430
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:38,720
Speaker 2: think it's so awesome if you were gonna pull a

1431
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 2: Joey Tribuani and get into this map and live in

1432
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 2: this map, where are you going to live? Where would

1433
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 2: you live in Naismith International Park. I'm just I'm just

1434
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 2: forgiving me for going out a frame. I'm pulling it

1435
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:53,440
Speaker 2: up here. I think Stockton Lake really looks nice up there.

1436
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:57,760
Speaker 4: It's got mountain views and ample fishing up near the

1437
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:00,600
Speaker 4: top of the arc, and there's a really nice area

1438
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:04,360
Speaker 4: named after Sue Bird there that I really I like,

1439
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:08,920
Speaker 4: the lower elevations, the temperate climate. There's nice hiking trails

1440
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 4: around there too, but the Stockton Lake and it feeds

1441
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 4: Malone Creek of course, so certainly I really like that

1442
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 4: area a lot.

1443
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:21,760
Speaker 2: What is the most obscure location on here? What's something

1444
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:24,720
Speaker 2: that you're like, you know, maybe it's not the most

1445
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:28,840
Speaker 2: famous in NBA history, but I love it. I'm getting

1446
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 2: it on here.

1447
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:30,920
Speaker 1: Oh, that's a very good question.

1448
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:34,680
Speaker 4: There's a bunch of buzzer beaters that I forgot happened,

1449
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 4: like Derek Rose beating the Calves in twenty fifteen that

1450
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:43,000
Speaker 4: people aren't going to get and but I the stone face, yeah, vibration.

1451
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:48,720
Speaker 4: Some people forget these, but I wanted to memorialize them,

1452
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 4: like so like the Kings. Not to bring it up

1453
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:53,400
Speaker 4: with Tray, but you know Lebron hitting a corner three

1454
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:56,680
Speaker 4: against the Bulls in twenty fifteen too, So there's some

1455
01:06:56,840 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 4: of there in terms of really uh cappy Pondexter, who

1456
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:05,320
Speaker 4: I love, makes it. Most people might not realize that

1457
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 4: that I put her on there, but of course Waiters

1458
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 4: Island is Yeah, yeah, some some students of the game

1459
01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:15,080
Speaker 4: will get it and some will not. But that's that's

1460
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:16,880
Speaker 4: notably in Simmons Lake.

1461
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 2: But I had to have it.

1462
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:22,160
Speaker 4: If anybody wants to look at this, Yeah, if anybody

1463
01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:24,480
Speaker 4: wants to look at this, they can find it on

1464
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:27,200
Speaker 4: my Twitter handle. It's pinned up there and we're selling them.

1465
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:29,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, I love it. I love it.

1466
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:31,480
Speaker 4: I love that people loved it. I did not know

1467
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:34,640
Speaker 4: it it would receive the recognition that I got on Twitter.

1468
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:36,520
Speaker 4: Thanks to you guys a lot for the support.

1469
01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 3: But if anybody, Yeah, what are you about to ask?

1470
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 5: No, just the Zechlo Observatory there on Wigg's Island. I

1471
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:47,080
Speaker 5: think it's just the perfect little compliment.

1472
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:47,400
Speaker 2: Again.

1473
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:50,400
Speaker 5: I mean maybe casual fans don't realize the meaning of that,

1474
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:52,680
Speaker 5: but for those of us who are sort of do

1475
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:54,640
Speaker 5: this thing and this is our Korea, like, it's just

1476
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:58,440
Speaker 5: so perfect to have it there. Did did you know

1477
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:00,280
Speaker 5: when you did all these things, you know, think coming

1478
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 5: together and you said, you know you've gotten a couple

1479
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:04,120
Speaker 5: of things, is it something that you sort of wish

1480
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:05,920
Speaker 5: you you know, you could add in there now, or

1481
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 5: that you know you lift.

1482
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:11,240
Speaker 1: You Oh my god, dad, yeah yeah, so pop up

1483
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 1: your shirt here.

1484
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:15,000
Speaker 4: This is the best example. I didn't get any boonshok

1485
01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:22,040
Speaker 4: a lock a point. Coincidentally, those two players didn't make.

1486
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 1: It, so wow, I just screwed up.

1487
01:08:24,280 --> 01:08:25,639
Speaker 4: I didn't know it was going to be a thing,

1488
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:27,880
Speaker 4: Like I thought it was going to be a minor thing.

1489
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:30,599
Speaker 4: But when people started going crazy, I was like, oh,

1490
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:33,599
Speaker 4: this is sort of this definitive document, so I better

1491
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:35,720
Speaker 4: make it right. So the good news is I have

1492
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:39,280
Speaker 4: the chance to update it next year, and I will

1493
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:42,720
Speaker 4: and our good friends from NBA JAM will be represented,

1494
01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:46,760
Speaker 4: No dunks will be represented nice and Gary Payton, you

1495
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:49,800
Speaker 4: know the glove Like there's some guys I dismissed. I

1496
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:54,280
Speaker 4: think I hit like eighty five percent. But there's room

1497
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:56,880
Speaker 4: for improvement. But it's not set in stone. I think

1498
01:08:56,960 --> 01:08:59,519
Speaker 4: one thing I look forward to doing lee is updating it.

1499
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:01,679
Speaker 4: You know, if I made this two years ago, doncic

1500
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:03,040
Speaker 4: you know, Bang Bang point.

1501
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:03,559
Speaker 1: Wouldn't rie there.

1502
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:06,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's there now. So what's going to happen

1503
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:08,760
Speaker 4: this year? What's going to get added to the map?

1504
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:10,439
Speaker 4: And that's one of the cool things about the NBA.

1505
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:12,240
Speaker 4: You guys know this is well as well as anybody

1506
01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 4: like it'll gift us a bunch of new things to

1507
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:17,840
Speaker 4: put on there this year. As crazy as this season

1508
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:22,080
Speaker 4: is going to be, this map will I think it's

1509
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:24,479
Speaker 4: a work in progress. I think I'll perpetually sort of

1510
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 4: add things every year and have addition so next year

1511
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:29,840
Speaker 4: I'll have the twenty twenty one edition. Because you know,

1512
01:09:30,320 --> 01:09:32,519
Speaker 4: one thing you didn't say at the top, Skeets is

1513
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:35,760
Speaker 4: I my first job was a cartography professor, Like this

1514
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:36,759
Speaker 4: is my passion.

1515
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:38,759
Speaker 1: You know, I'm a map maker by trade.

1516
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:40,400
Speaker 6: I love this.

1517
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:43,200
Speaker 1: This isn't really like you.

1518
01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:46,200
Speaker 3: I have a weird geek question because like I do

1519
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:48,360
Speaker 3: love maps too, I don't draw them, but like, do.

1520
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:52,439
Speaker 2: You have like a top five cartographers of all time? No,

1521
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:54,439
Speaker 2: it's not America Vespucci or.

1522
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 1: Not now, Walda Tobler, Sarah Fabricant, Cindy Brewer.

1523
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:00,680
Speaker 4: Of course Mercader has to be on the list. And

1524
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:02,799
Speaker 4: Arthur Robinson is on there too.

1525
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:05,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, mister Robinson's neighborhood.

1526
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:08,080
Speaker 1: Hey, that's on the map. That's on the map.

1527
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:11,080
Speaker 3: Was gonna say, is there like a platform you use

1528
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:14,360
Speaker 3: like to build these? Like how do you draw this?

1529
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:16,120
Speaker 3: I guess is what I'm getting at? Or create this?

1530
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:19,040
Speaker 3: Is there actually a cartography like I don't know app

1531
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:19,559
Speaker 3: or something.

1532
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:22,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a there's a there's a package called Geographic

1533
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:25,280
Speaker 4: Information Systems g i S, which is really popular if

1534
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 4: you went to study geography Queen's University or McGill or something,

1535
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:33,880
Speaker 4: and yeah, hey they have good geography programs up there,

1536
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:36,640
Speaker 4: and uh so, yeah, you learn this software and then

1537
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:40,519
Speaker 4: you bring it into graphic design software and beauty beautify

1538
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:42,840
Speaker 4: it up. But yeah, the line work is there's the

1539
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:47,240
Speaker 4: entire software packages skis designed. Now is everybody unclicks the

1540
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:48,799
Speaker 4: stops listening to the podcast.

1541
01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:53,519
Speaker 1: There's a lot. There's a lot to learn about map making.

1542
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:56,880
Speaker 2: People are hopping in with their suggestions for things that

1543
01:10:57,000 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 2: already need to be added. Uh, Lee's gonna love this one.

1544
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:02,000
Speaker 2: I'm from Samuel Noono who says, I can't wait to

1545
01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:05,439
Speaker 2: see where the Brad Lowhouse will be. Oh, that's a

1546
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:06,200
Speaker 2: great one.

1547
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:06,840
Speaker 1: We were talking.

1548
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 6: We're literally talking about low House before the podcast in

1549
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:13,760
Speaker 6: the NBA JAM context. That's a great I actually to

1550
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:17,160
Speaker 6: that point on my Instagram feed at kirk Goldsbury. I

1551
01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:20,160
Speaker 6: actually crowdsourced because I knew I was forgetting stuff sure,

1552
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:23,040
Speaker 6: and so many people gave me great ideas that made

1553
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:25,240
Speaker 6: it on there. But Brad's low House or whatever that

1554
01:11:25,320 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 6: we would go with, that's a great one.

1555
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:27,080
Speaker 1: Man.

1556
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:30,160
Speaker 2: I wanted to have a ton of suggestions for you.

1557
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:32,320
Speaker 2: You know, I'm thinking, Oh, there's got to be some

1558
01:11:32,479 --> 01:11:35,639
Speaker 2: he forgot. I didn't find hardly any Literally, the only

1559
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:37,760
Speaker 2: thing I could find anytime I look at one of

1560
01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:41,599
Speaker 2: your shot projections shot maps, the first thing I check

1561
01:11:41,760 --> 01:11:44,439
Speaker 2: is on the baselines twelve to fifteen feet away? Is

1562
01:11:44,479 --> 01:11:46,720
Speaker 2: he gonna honor Bill Wennington? Is this the time he

1563
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:49,639
Speaker 2: finally says Bill Wennington, the king of the twelve foot

1564
01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:52,680
Speaker 2: baseline jumper. That's my only critique. That's the only thing

1565
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:54,280
Speaker 2: I'm adding for verse two.

1566
01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:58,439
Speaker 4: That I will let the record show folks, I will

1567
01:11:58,520 --> 01:12:01,360
Speaker 4: put Bill Wennington on the tour one edition. I love

1568
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:05,320
Speaker 4: Bill Wennington, but Udnna's hassle. It's pretty good at that

1569
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:09,760
Speaker 4: exact shot. And they think Wennington will get one side

1570
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:11,960
Speaker 4: and we'll have to give you d the other side

1571
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:16,120
Speaker 4: because that guy man that short corner, that seventeen fifteen

1572
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:19,200
Speaker 4: foot baseline, the old man, big shot. Nobody takes that

1573
01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:23,360
Speaker 4: shot anymore. Actually, to your point, if you map, everybody

1574
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:25,599
Speaker 4: talks about the rise of the corner three, the rise

1575
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:28,479
Speaker 4: of the step back, the shot that has decreased in

1576
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:31,519
Speaker 4: a zero sum game, the most is that exact shot. Trey,

1577
01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:36,280
Speaker 4: this short baseline jumper is an endangered species.

1578
01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:38,240
Speaker 1: Nobody goes there. Nobody goes there.

1579
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:40,479
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you'll have the heat map come out. It's

1580
01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:43,639
Speaker 2: like people are missing everywhere. There's there's at least color

1581
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:46,120
Speaker 2: on almost every single part of the map, and then

1582
01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:48,679
Speaker 2: right there on the baseline, it's like two black holes

1583
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:51,000
Speaker 2: do not go here, which is weird. I feel like

1584
01:12:51,080 --> 01:12:53,519
Speaker 2: that's the first shot I ever learned to take. That

1585
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:55,479
Speaker 2: wasn't a layout. They're like, like my Dad's like, hey,

1586
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 2: you're tall, you'll stand on the baseline. That's all they're

1587
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:00,200
Speaker 2: ever gonna let you do.

1588
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:06,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, Chris Middleton shout out to extending that shot. Of course,

1589
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:09,160
Speaker 4: Kevin Durant can shoot and will shoot from everywhere, and

1590
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:12,519
Speaker 4: Carmelo still getting it done in that spot, and they're

1591
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:15,040
Speaker 4: all honored on the map in the in those places.

1592
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:17,479
Speaker 4: But yeah, that place used to be like a lot

1593
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:21,200
Speaker 4: of fadeaways off the block, especially MJ. You know, the

1594
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 4: windshield wiper move would end up being a twelve foot

1595
01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:27,519
Speaker 4: baseline jumper in one of the most gorgeous shots in

1596
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:28,280
Speaker 4: the league.

1597
01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 1: It's sad to say, but we're losing that a little bit.

1598
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 4: So Chris Middleton, I give I give props to he

1599
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:37,200
Speaker 4: still gets it done in that little zone. He's probably

1600
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:41,040
Speaker 4: like him and Durant probably the only youngish guys still

1601
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:43,920
Speaker 4: doing it. And in ten years Trey, that SHOT's gone.

1602
01:13:44,479 --> 01:13:46,320
Speaker 2: I know, I don't know we're gonna I think we're

1603
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:48,760
Speaker 2: changing people's minds here, Kirk. We're gonna get him back

1604
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:51,280
Speaker 2: taking those twelve foot or so. It's worthway less. It's

1605
01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:53,760
Speaker 2: a tough shot, but you're gonna show up on the map.

1606
01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:56,080
Speaker 2: You can put your name literally on the map by

1607
01:13:56,120 --> 01:13:56,400
Speaker 2: making this.

1608
01:13:56,680 --> 01:13:58,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so it's a weird thing. I've said this

1609
01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:01,599
Speaker 3: before on the podcast. My old high school basketball coach,

1610
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:04,120
Speaker 3: rest in Peace Coach and I he used to call

1611
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:06,880
Speaker 3: that the Russian spot. And I have no idea why.

1612
01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:10,040
Speaker 3: I have no clue, but he called that the Russian spot.

1613
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:12,400
Speaker 3: So maybe the Russians were like ahead of the curve

1614
01:14:12,479 --> 01:14:15,240
Speaker 3: on that one and taking that little baseline shot for

1615
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:17,200
Speaker 3: the big guy up. No no idea. Someone'll have to

1616
01:14:17,240 --> 01:14:18,840
Speaker 3: fact check me on that, or maybe he just thought

1617
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:19,240
Speaker 3: that up.

1618
01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:21,799
Speaker 1: On the podcast.

1619
01:14:22,479 --> 01:14:25,400
Speaker 4: And similarly, the coaches in the world have these great

1620
01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:28,200
Speaker 4: sort of geographies of the court. And you know, one

1621
01:14:28,200 --> 01:14:29,880
Speaker 4: of the things, there's a line on the court and

1622
01:14:29,960 --> 01:14:31,720
Speaker 4: I didn't quite get it on there that coach Pop

1623
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:34,360
Speaker 4: always calls them alone line because if Carl caught it

1624
01:14:34,479 --> 01:14:37,280
Speaker 4: on this side of the line, you're messed up, screwed.

1625
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:39,240
Speaker 4: And if he was on that side, he's not that

1626
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:41,680
Speaker 4: dangerous over there. But I want to get that on there.

1627
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:44,320
Speaker 4: But the point is your coach, coach n I r ip.

1628
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:46,920
Speaker 4: I love how they look at the court and the

1629
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:49,639
Speaker 4: next version of this thing, I really want to talk

1630
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:53,360
Speaker 4: to some coaches and make sure that I've labeled the

1631
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:58,519
Speaker 4: points in the areas that are really relevant tactically. The

1632
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:01,720
Speaker 4: Russian spot, I've never heard that a great example, so.

1633
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:05,120
Speaker 3: Weird, I said, sorry, one request, I tweeted at you, Kirk,

1634
01:15:05,400 --> 01:15:07,439
Speaker 3: we have to have on the twenty twenty one version,

1635
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:11,519
Speaker 3: next version near the rim, of course, somewhat you know,

1636
01:15:11,680 --> 01:15:14,200
Speaker 3: stuck in there, Agie, watch them.

1637
01:15:14,280 --> 01:15:17,600
Speaker 1: I can't believe I wrote it down already. Yeah, no, I.

1638
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:18,280
Speaker 3: Couldn't believe it.

1639
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:23,160
Speaker 4: No, the Wedgie point, yes, sure, yeah, yes, no, for sure.

1640
01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:25,680
Speaker 4: And then there's got to be some below the rim

1641
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:30,160
Speaker 4: references too. But yeah, the Weggie thing was honestly, no bullshit.

1642
01:15:30,280 --> 01:15:34,160
Speaker 4: One of the biggest oversights, I really think so in

1643
01:15:34,280 --> 01:15:37,160
Speaker 4: terms of yeah, in terms of things somebody brought up

1644
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:42,040
Speaker 4: is like where's that? I'm like, crap, So I promise

1645
01:15:42,120 --> 01:15:47,120
Speaker 4: you Wennington, Wedgie and some below the rim reference.

1646
01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:50,120
Speaker 5: Okay, what you're about to say, Well, Kirk, I've got

1647
01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:52,200
Speaker 5: I've got to ask you about my favorite spot here

1648
01:15:52,280 --> 01:15:54,559
Speaker 5: on the map. I think producer JD's got a photo

1649
01:15:54,640 --> 01:15:56,519
Speaker 5: of it here. It's as you can see that Ellis

1650
01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:57,760
Speaker 5: peak now.

1651
01:15:57,880 --> 01:16:03,160
Speaker 2: Wow, oh Jesus, no, day Ellis, Daye.

1652
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:05,080
Speaker 5: Ellis was was an All Star. Of course he won

1653
01:16:05,160 --> 01:16:07,280
Speaker 5: the three point shoot out. Monte Ellis wasn't an All Star,

1654
01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:08,960
Speaker 5: but he was a good player. Then you got Lafonso,

1655
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:11,880
Speaker 5: Lron Ellis Is, a couple others. So I'm hoping you're

1656
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:14,720
Speaker 5: going to flatter me and say that's a reference to

1657
01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:18,120
Speaker 5: my greatest moment of my basketball career because it's around

1658
01:16:18,200 --> 01:16:18,760
Speaker 5: that same spot.

1659
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:20,360
Speaker 4: And now, of course it was I remember when you

1660
01:16:20,439 --> 01:16:23,720
Speaker 4: hit that shortly and it was it was I had

1661
01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:25,880
Speaker 4: to put it on him, and a lot of people said, oh,

1662
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:27,840
Speaker 4: great weight, honor the great Dale Ellis.

1663
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:31,240
Speaker 1: Wow that great. No, No, and Dale Ellis you know,

1664
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:32,160
Speaker 1: cool flat top.

1665
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:36,640
Speaker 5: But where you've got that peak is close to the

1666
01:16:36,720 --> 01:16:38,519
Speaker 5: greatest peak of my basketball career.

1667
01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:42,280
Speaker 3: Our producer Jada here it is here Lo at that

1668
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:46,880
Speaker 3: spot there right. Oh, it's not even close to where

1669
01:16:46,920 --> 01:16:48,639
Speaker 3: it is on the map. You just wanted to get

1670
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:51,439
Speaker 3: a clip in this podcast shooting over you know.

1671
01:16:51,560 --> 01:16:53,519
Speaker 5: Look, I just I just saw Elis peak there and

1672
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:56,040
Speaker 5: I thought, yeah, after Dale and it's me or Monday.

1673
01:16:56,120 --> 01:16:57,920
Speaker 5: I'm hoping and that's what I'm hoping you're going to

1674
01:16:57,960 --> 01:16:59,760
Speaker 5: say anyway, Kirk is.

1675
01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:05,800
Speaker 1: Left open to interpretation something. I'll take it.

1676
01:17:05,880 --> 01:17:08,280
Speaker 5: That's that's good enough of me, Trey.

1677
01:17:08,640 --> 01:17:11,360
Speaker 3: Any more map questions before we wrap this up, Like, Kirk,

1678
01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:13,040
Speaker 3: go here, we gotta get ready for tonight's games.

1679
01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:15,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, the only the last question I would have about

1680
01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 2: the map, Kirk. I was doing a lot of searching here.

1681
01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:26,120
Speaker 2: There's talk of a mythical Wiggans Island. It only appears

1682
01:17:26,160 --> 01:17:30,040
Speaker 2: for a couple of weeks a year. Is it possible

1683
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:32,360
Speaker 2: to be charted on the map? Doesn't really exist?

1684
01:17:32,760 --> 01:17:36,400
Speaker 4: Well, there's geographic features that are classified as intermittent features

1685
01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:42,680
Speaker 4: that you know some some washes are temporarily flooded in

1686
01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:45,960
Speaker 4: some landforms. So we have tricks for intermittent features. So

1687
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:48,479
Speaker 4: I think, yeah, like we brought this up earlier in

1688
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:52,400
Speaker 4: the contents of LORI markten marketing point might be an

1689
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:58,360
Speaker 4: intermittent intermittent feature. Three Jeff green Point would definitely be

1690
01:17:58,439 --> 01:18:00,920
Speaker 4: an intermittant sometimes there sometimes not.

1691
01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:03,760
Speaker 1: But I think Wiggins point. I'll add it to the list,

1692
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:05,280
Speaker 1: my dude, I love that way.

1693
01:18:05,320 --> 01:18:07,520
Speaker 3: So the next map is going to be like holographic,

1694
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:09,960
Speaker 3: like you tilt it one way and hears and then

1695
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:12,280
Speaker 3: you tilt the other way. It doesn't that's not about it.

1696
01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:14,120
Speaker 2: Way, Bobby Portis's eyes following me.

1697
01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:17,080
Speaker 4: Hey, yeah, but all seriousness, your audience, hit me up

1698
01:18:17,160 --> 01:18:20,519
Speaker 4: by Kirk Goldsburg either Twitter or Instagram and give me ideas.

1699
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 1: If I miss something, I'm not going to miss it

1700
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:24,320
Speaker 1: next year. A lot of my best.

1701
01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:26,720
Speaker 4: Ideas came from this, this group of people that we

1702
01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:30,960
Speaker 4: get to interact with, so thank you for the ideas.

1703
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:33,160
Speaker 4: And yeah, this is a product of that process and

1704
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:35,960
Speaker 4: I really think I think next year's version is going

1705
01:18:36,040 --> 01:18:39,639
Speaker 4: to be even bigger and badder, so we'll see. But yeah,

1706
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:40,759
Speaker 4: thanks for all the ideas.

1707
01:18:41,080 --> 01:18:43,160
Speaker 3: Don't wait, though, to buy next year's version.

1708
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:43,680
Speaker 2: Go now.

1709
01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:45,800
Speaker 3: The easiest way, I assume is just to go to

1710
01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:50,000
Speaker 3: Kirk's Twitter account or Instagram account at Kirk Goldsberry. I'll

1711
01:18:50,040 --> 01:18:52,040
Speaker 3: drop some links and we will drop some links and

1712
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:54,080
Speaker 3: this is really really cool. This would be a great gift,

1713
01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:56,280
Speaker 3: no doubt, for obviously an NBA fan in your life,

1714
01:18:56,360 --> 01:18:58,600
Speaker 3: So go check that out. Kirk, thanks so much for

1715
01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:00,680
Speaker 3: joining us man. This is I don't know how we

1716
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:02,439
Speaker 3: waited this long though, finally once every.

1717
01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:04,679
Speaker 1: Seven years, yeah, every years.

1718
01:19:05,240 --> 01:19:08,479
Speaker 3: Very intermittent you coming on the podcast. Guys, go get

1719
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:11,080
Speaker 3: your new No Dunks merchandise at no dunks dot com,

1720
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:13,320
Speaker 3: sending your questions and comments to No Dunks at the

1721
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:16,960
Speaker 3: Athletic dot com. Enjoy the games tonight. We'll be back

1722
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:19,280
Speaker 3: tomorrow to break them all down. Tassy will be back

1723
01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:23,160
Speaker 3: and we actually I'll tease this now a very special

1724
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:27,080
Speaker 3: premiere of a No Dunks Christmas classic off of the

1725
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:30,720
Speaker 3: top of tomorrow's show. You're not gonna want to be

1726
01:19:30,840 --> 01:19:33,599
Speaker 3: late to the start of tomorrow's podcast, especially the stream team,

1727
01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:36,599
Speaker 3: so join us at ten am Eastern on Wednesday morning

1728
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:40,200
Speaker 3: for that again. Kirk, Thank you so much. Clipper Bros.

1729
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:41,800
Speaker 1: You heard it here first.

1730
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:44,840
Speaker 2: Have a great time, turn up, Love you guys awesome.

1731
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:48,360
Speaker 3: Embrace the new NBA season. People will see tomorrow.

1732
01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:50,479
Speaker 1: You could stay.

1733
01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:53,280
Speaker 6: Every day.

1734
01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:57,160
Speaker 3: Than you happy every day.

1735
01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:03,840
Speaker 1: It's been so long that you're the fun of waiting for.

1736
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:06,960
Speaker 1: It's happened already.

1737
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:09,759
Speaker 2: It's gonna be grippy.