1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: Welcome Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of I 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, welcome to Stuff to 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm 4 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: Joe McCormick in his feast time. That's right, Thanksgiving season 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: here once again, and in the United States at any rate. 6 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: So we're continuing a tradition, a tradition of dangerous foods, 7 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: in which we highlight foods that at least can be 8 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: dangerous or deadly under the right conditions. I mean, we 9 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 1: were trying not to alarm anyone, but we find that 10 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of a lot of fun to 11 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: be had in exploring the dangerous side of our culinary 12 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: creations and our culinary instincts right now. This can range 13 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:49,520 Speaker 1: from such a strange exotic chemical adventures in the past 14 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:54,279 Speaker 1: as the hallucinogenic seabream of the Mediterranean, or or like 15 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: toxic honey that was chronicled in the ancient world as 16 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: leading to victories in battle when when one side ate 17 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:02,959 Speaker 1: the honey and the other could take advantage of that. 18 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: But it also goes into the mundane world where where 19 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: just like normal food items that we all take for granted, 20 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: if not prepared the right way could go very bad 21 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: for you. For example, normal dried beans, kidney beans and 22 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: so forth, you need to boil those, you don't just 23 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: soak them and eat them, and if you do, you 24 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: can experience some some extreme gastro intestinal problems. Yeah, a 25 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: lot of it comes down to, Okay, here's the thing 26 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: that human beings can eat. But under what circumstances can 27 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,479 Speaker 1: humans eat it? What do they have to do to it? First? 28 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: Do they have to remove certain parts of it? Are 29 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: only certain parts edible? Is it only in and then? 30 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: Or those parts only edible after the content has been 31 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: cooked a certain way. Likewise, is there a certain time 32 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: during which a particular vegetable item should be harvested? And 33 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: is it dangerous to harvest it or and or consume 34 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: it at another time? Or do leave it sitting around 35 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: too long? Is that we talked about cases with potato 36 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: poisonings in the past where potatoes were just left in 37 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: the sack for got a little two wisened, and then 38 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: that they made some schoolboys sick in England at that 39 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: unhealthy green color. Right. Yeah, but of course humans don't 40 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: just eat this vegetable or that invertebrate. We we also 41 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: combine all of these things, we add a small dosage 42 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: of various spices. For instance, spices which in their natural 43 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: form are chemical weapons and might prove very uncomfortable or 44 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: dangerous to consume, you know, especially if you're consuming them 45 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: at a quantity beyond that. What that which is advisable 46 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,959 Speaker 1: when when cooking and the culinary palate becomes quite vast 47 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: this way, and out of this complexity, many of the 48 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: most magical of culinary possibilities emerge. Yeah, I was just 49 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 1: your note here made me think about the fact that, 50 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: of course I love spicy food. I think you like 51 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 1: spicy food too, right, Yeah? Uh that that so many 52 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: of these compounds that we so desire in our foods 53 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: to liven them up, are of course defenses there, as 54 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: you say, you know, their chemical weapons. That what makes 55 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: the garlics so hot and wonderful. It's got these compounds 56 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: that come together when it's sell walls or ruptured and 57 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,679 Speaker 1: produce this pungent odor and flavor that we love. But 58 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: this mention of spice was also making me wonder a 59 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: question I don't think we've ever addressed on the show before. 60 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: Maybe you got into it many years ago, which is 61 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 1: can you be killed by hot peppers? You know, I'm 62 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: not sure. We may have covered a little bit of 63 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 1: that in the past. I know we did an episode 64 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: on nutmeg once. It was really interesting that got into 65 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: a little bit of you know, the question of what 66 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: is a lethal dose of nutmeg? What happens when when 67 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: you consume too much nutmeg? Um, and and one of 68 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: the things that was really emerged in that research was that, yeah, 69 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: most spices, most household spices, if you consume too much 70 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: of it, you will hurt yourself. Right. Um, that's just 71 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: that's just kind of a fact no matter what you're 72 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: grabbing out of the spice cabinet. But with a lot 73 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: of these things, you would have to consume an amount 74 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: of it that is not a reasonable amount that would 75 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: ever be used in cooking, right. It would be the 76 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: food would become inedible, Like you would have to really 77 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: force yourself to choke it down. It would have to 78 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: be a very deliberate act. Uh. Yeah, And I think 79 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: this actually turns out to be the case with this 80 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: question about hot peppers. As a lover of spicy food 81 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: and as somebody who has taken a bite out of 82 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: a raw Carolina Reaper pepper for an on camera experiment, 83 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: which I mean that was a horrible experience. Is that 84 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: what you're calling a YouTube challenge is that it wasn't 85 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: a YouTube challenge. It was just it was just Rachel 86 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: videoing me with her phone. Her dad showed up at 87 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: the house with one of these. It was one of 88 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: the spiciest peppers in the world. One of you did 89 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 1: something here, No, no, no, no, it was it was 90 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 1: in Tennessee. It was like, you know, so one of these, uh, 91 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: like ten billion Scoville units peppers. Uh. He showed up 92 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: and he was like, he knows I like spicy food. 93 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: He's like, you want to try it? So I took 94 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: a bite of it on camera, and yeah, that was 95 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 1: like I love spicy food. But that became a problem. 96 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: It was just more like I had a disease for 97 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: the rest of the day. Uh. And I tried to 98 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: fix it. As you know, one thing you can do 99 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 1: if you've eaten too much spicy food is you can 100 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 1: try to neutralize it with some milk in your mouth. 101 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: But then I ended up drinking some spoiled milk so 102 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 1: that it even worse. This sounds like a comedy bit. 103 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: The comedy was all in my body. But yeah, so 104 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: I was wondering, well, okay, so that felt pretty bad, 105 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: even though I love really spicy food. Is it possible 106 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: to eat food so spicy it kills you? Technically yes, 107 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 1: but under practical circumstances not really. Uh. The active compound 108 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 1: in chili peppers that makes them spicy is called cap sasan. 109 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: Eating large amounts of capsasan can cause. Of course, you know, 110 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: all the symptoms were familiar with gastro intestinal distress, even vomiting, sweating, flushing, irritation, 111 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: and the mucous membranes and all that, which those symptoms 112 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: themselves could potentially harm someone maybe if they're saying a 113 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: very sensitive cardio pulmonary state. But as for just like 114 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: somebody in normal health being poisoned by too much peppers. Uh. 115 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: I did find some cases where people had aspirated peppers, 116 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 1: and and that was dangerous. But normally you're not like 117 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: breathing in peppers, uh, when you're eating them, you're just 118 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: swallowing them. So I found one article by someone named 119 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: Katherine Gammon, who consulted less an authority than Paul Bosland, 120 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: a professor of horticulture at New Mexico State University and 121 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: director of the Chili Pepper Institute. They've got this whole 122 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: chili pepper lab there where they like breed new strains 123 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: of chili's um and Boslin cites a study from nineteen 124 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: eighty on the acute toxicity of cap sasan. So how 125 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: much does it take to just kill you? By his estimation, 126 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: the research revealed that to kill a one hundred and 127 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: fifty pound person with cap sasan, you need to serve 128 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: them about three pounds of the powder form of one 129 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: of the spiciest peppers known to human kinds, such as 130 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: the boot Jill Lochia or the ghost pepper. Uh. And 131 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: this would need to be all in one sitting. So 132 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: you get them to eat three pounds of the powdered 133 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: form all at once. Uh. And he notes that your 134 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: body just probably would not allow this. Some things would 135 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: happen to stop you on the on the course of 136 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: the suicide mission. Yeah that. Yeah, you would have to 137 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: be an act of madness to eat that much much 138 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: of the pepper. Yeah. So, unless you're already in very 139 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: delicate health, or you're doing something very unusual and extreme 140 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: eating spicy food, even really really spicy food is perfectly safe. 141 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: But hey, that's all that's all the organic world. Well, 142 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it's actually not, because we're breeding 143 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: these peppers hotter and hotter. That is sort of agricultural technology. 144 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: But still, you know this is coming from a plant, right, right, Yeah, 145 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: So we get into this situation where we're we're taking 146 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: these plants, we're taking spices, we're taking other things, the 147 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: vast palate of things from our natural world, and then 148 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: using them to create food. And it's one thing. If 149 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: we're creating that food within the household or within say 150 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: a close, tight knit community, uh such as you know, 151 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: it would have been more or less the you know, 152 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: the archaic normal for for humans. But of course we 153 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: ascend past that, right we we begin developing much larger groups, 154 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: and we begin specializing the creation of various things, various 155 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: food products, especially various technologies, and we end up engaging 156 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: in trade, uh and and the stockpiling of foods as well. 157 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: So given this, you know, there's this increased complexity allows 158 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: us to work kind of a dark magic here as well. 159 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: Not only can we enhance the flavor of our ingredients, 160 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: but we can also hide, defending smells, not merely in 161 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: a you know, in a household sense, like well, this 162 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: fish is a little off, but we need to eat 163 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: it more. In the this fish is bad, but I 164 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: really need to sell it way, right. But they are 165 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: all kinds of tricks like that. I mean, another thing 166 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: you could do if you've seen one of those crime 167 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: movies where somebody's like they cut the dope, you know, 168 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: putting baby powder in the brick of heroin or whatever. 169 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:37,679 Speaker 1: People do that with food products too. Yeah, and we'll 170 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: get into some some wonderful, wonderful examples of that. Uh yeah. 171 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,839 Speaker 1: Basically it opens the door for all manner of cuts 172 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: and shortcuts and cheats, all predicated on the fact that 173 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 1: in an industry of food, the maker doesn't have to 174 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: consume their own food product, right, and perhaps they'll be 175 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,719 Speaker 1: down the road by the time somebody does. Now, So 176 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: we are going to be talking about food adulteration and 177 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: food adjectives today. But I don't want to contribute as 178 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: we always do in these episodes. We don't want to 179 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: contribute to food panic, and I don't want to contribute 180 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: to additive panic. I think there are some people who 181 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: have this attitude, like I don't allow any chemicals in 182 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,839 Speaker 1: my food or something, which I think we've discussed that 183 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 1: attitude on the show before. It doesn't really make sense. 184 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 1: I mean, your food already has chemicals and it is 185 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: made of chemicals. Uh, just looking at a something with 186 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,079 Speaker 1: a synthetic sounding name doesn't necessarily mean it's going to 187 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: hurt you, right, And we we'll touch a little bit, 188 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: very very briefly on sort of the current state of additives, 189 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: in the in the future of additives, and and just 190 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: the level of like legitimate concern and sometimes panic that 191 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 1: that comes with discussion of these things. But for the 192 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: most part in this episode, we're gonna be talking about 193 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: older additives, additives that we can safely say we're a 194 00:09:55,960 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 1: bad idea, that it's not a matter a matter of opinion, uh, 195 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: you know, regarding whether you should put this particular ingredient 196 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: and say a candy or not. Um. Yeah, we're and 197 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: we're largely talking about the deliberate adulteration of food. And 198 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: this has actually been with us since ancient times. There 199 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: are ancient laws and rules that that that that govern 200 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: how we handle our food, how we prepare food in 201 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: order to ensure food quality. This almost seems to me 202 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: like it would be one of the earliest concerns of civilization. 203 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: You know, like, once you're no longer making your own 204 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: food or having your own food made by a family member, 205 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: your food is being made by somebody maybe that you 206 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 1: don't even know, you don't even know their name. It's 207 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: being made in some place you can't see. You would naturally, 208 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: I think, have people start to worry and wonder, like 209 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: what's in my food? Yeah? Yeah, So I was looking 210 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: at a source on this from one Marcia a. Ecoles, 211 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: who have Food Safety the Interplay of culture and science, 212 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 1: of culture, science and technology, and the author points out 213 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: a number of cool fact about sort of the ancient 214 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: history of of food safety. So the Assyrians established weights 215 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 1: and measures for grains because and we're getting this is 216 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: one of the I guess one key way that you 217 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: can you can cheat a system of weights and prices 218 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 1: based on weights is to put something in with your 219 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: grain to weight it down. UM As early as two 220 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:26,199 Speaker 1: b C. In uh residents of India punished economic adulteration 221 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: of grains and oils. During the same era, the Chinese 222 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: combated consumer fraud. The ancient Athenians had purity standards for 223 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: both beer and wine. The Romans had a system to 224 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 1: control fraud and bad produce, and there are various other 225 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: ancient laws, religious or otherwise that governed the handling of 226 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: meat in ways that we're concerned ultimately with with purity, 227 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: which of course is we've discussed many times in the shows. 228 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: It's a tricky concept because in purity you're getting ideas 229 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 1: of sort of hygiene mixed up with with with less 230 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: um a matter of fact, statements about out of food. 231 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: But you know, as we discussed with pork recently on 232 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: the show, there's always this argument that the purity is 233 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: at least partially grounded in health concerns. Sure, uh, And 234 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: you can maybe make arguments like that about the mixing 235 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: of different types of foods that are forbidden in some 236 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: religious customs. Maybe not that there's actually anything wrong with 237 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: mixing those types of foods, but perhaps there was a 238 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: perception in the ancient world that that it could be dangerous. Now, 239 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: another source that I was looking at here is is 240 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: a wonderful right up by Adam Burrows J d uh 241 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: and it's titled Palette of Our Palettes Clever, A Brief 242 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: History of Food coloring and its regulation from Comprehensive Reviews 243 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: and Food Science and Food Safety, and this is from 244 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: two thousand nine. Uh. Burrows points out that the ancient 245 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: Egyptians wrote of drug colorance, but archaeologists think food coloration 246 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:55,079 Speaker 1: itself dates back to roughly C. Saffron, for example, is 247 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: mentioned in the Iliad, and plenty of the elder wrote 248 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: of colored wines and four D B C. And I 249 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 1: looked into this little more and it seems like it's 250 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: possibly talking about the use of squid incu in the wind. 251 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: I guess, you know, give dark in it and may 252 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: give it this thicker appearance. Squid ink is still used 253 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: as a food additive today. Yeah, yeah, Like if you 254 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: ever have squid ink pasta, that's right. Yeah, they're beautiful, 255 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: like charcoal black color in the food. Um, I don't 256 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: know if it really contributes a flavor. I've never looked 257 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: into that. Yeah, And likewise, I don't know if putting 258 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: squid ink in your wine is I'm sure it's It 259 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: would be frowned upon at a roll restaurant today. But saffron, 260 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: of course contributes both color and flavor. It's got a 261 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 1: distinctive kind of aroma. But yeah, you put a little 262 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: bit of saffron and say a pot of rice, and 263 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: it takes on this beautiful golden hue. Yeah. In addition 264 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: to saffron, a few other spices and elements that have 265 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: long been used to color food paprika um, fabulous, tumeric. 266 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: Beat extract is a big one because you know, you 267 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: get that bright red coloration. Long used food dyes. All 268 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,319 Speaker 1: of these, but one that was particularly popular in the past, 269 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: Tyrian purple, was derived from several species of predatory predatory 270 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: sea snails. Oh yeah, And if you want to learn 271 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,479 Speaker 1: more about the way that the Roman Empire and particularly 272 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: made use of naturally occurring substances, check out our previous 273 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,439 Speaker 1: episode on Roman extinctions. Oh yeah, there we talk about 274 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: the cultivation of like silphium and things like that. Now, 275 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: another source that we looked to here was Deborah Bloom's 276 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: book The Poison Squad, and Bloom points out that as 277 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: the Industrial Revolution washed over the world of foods during 278 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: you know, particularly during I think the eighteen seventies, she's 279 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: pointing out here, new food processing approaches provided even more 280 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: new ways and new ingredients to commit just lavish food fraud. 281 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: And this included artificial flavors, artificial coloring, and chemical preservatives. 282 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: And in this book she she makes a case for 283 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: the importance of U. S D. A chemist, Harvey Washington 284 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: widely in his white Hat efforts to use our advancing 285 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: knowledge of chemical science to stay on top of these 286 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: mini frauds. Yeah. This all in advance of the Meat 287 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: Inspection Act and the Pure Food and Drug Act of 288 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: nineteen o six, which widely helped to bring to fruition. Yeah, 289 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: he's sort of the central character in this book. And 290 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: it's funny that I feel like some of the main 291 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: chemicals and preservatives that he investigated with his famous Poison Squad, 292 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: which was a a group of men who would who 293 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: would essentially meet to eat meals together that were contaminated 294 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: deliberately with certain common additives used in food to see 295 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: how their health fared from repeatedly eating things like borax 296 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: or boric acid or whatever that kind of thing that 297 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: was used to produce stuff. I feel like some of 298 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: the things that the Poison Squad investigated, the jury still 299 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: kind of out on exactly how harmful they were. Maybe 300 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: they weren't as harmful as he thought they were, but 301 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: clearly at this time some food additives were harming and 302 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: killing people. I think especially there was some danger from 303 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: certain dies. Yes, and by the way, the Poison Squad, 304 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: it sounds like it would make a wonderful television series, 305 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: you know. I mean the public loves a good police procedural. 306 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: This is kind of like a little bit of police procedural, 307 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: also a little bit you know, the flavoring of say 308 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: The Nick, except with with a food um focus. So 309 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: I really hope it's been optioned. One thing audiences love 310 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: is people in the past not knowing things that we 311 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: know now. It's like the scene in Madmen where the 312 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: kid is playing putting the dry cleaning bag over their head, 313 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: and like the scenes in The Nick where people are 314 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: just like sitting in front of an X ray machine. 315 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: Why does that give us such pleasure to see the 316 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: people of the past punished by their ignorance. I don't 317 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: know one thing I will I think that The Nick 318 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: did a great job with it because they were able 319 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: to They had those moments, for sure, but at the 320 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: same time, they had plenty of moments where they I 321 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: think we're able to effectively convey this sense of modernity 322 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: in in the show that showing you that that even 323 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: if we can look back in hindsight, these various techniques 324 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: in in the show, in the time frame, they're occurring 325 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,679 Speaker 1: at the just the bleeding edge of our understanding of 326 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: the human body, and it's like retro science fiction. Yeah, 327 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: so obviously I guess it's you know, it's a it's 328 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: a it's a delicate balance to maintain in a show. 329 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: But like I would, I would love to see the 330 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 1: same people who did the nick like do the Poison Squad, 331 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: at least for one season, maybe many limited series maybe, 332 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: but still so. The frauds during this time were many. 333 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 1: But I think one of the more terrifying examples to discuss, 334 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: just to kick things off here is UH is something 335 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: that just on the face of things will seem like 336 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: a terrible, if not a nefarious idea, and that is 337 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: lead colored candy. So in our past episode on the Lead, 338 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,199 Speaker 1: UM I believe it was cupids lead in arrow it 339 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: was a Valentine's Day special. We pointed out that even 340 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: though lead is quite poisonous, UH, it tastes uh. Its 341 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,719 Speaker 1: taste is also sometimes described as sweet, and the ancient 342 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,719 Speaker 1: Romans used leads salt as a sweetener in their syrup. 343 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: This was known as soap, I believe, and plenty of 344 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: the Elder once again describes the use of lead in 345 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 1: vessels with sappa to sweeten the taste. Right, Yeah, You've 346 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 1: got to boil down your sapa, which was like it 347 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: was a syrup made by reducing some kind of wine 348 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: product I think, um. And so you boil it down 349 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: to make it sweet, and it takes on the lead 350 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: from the pot that it's boiled in to become sweeter. 351 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: He says, don't boil it in a copper pot. That's 352 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 1: gonna taste bitter. You've got to boil it in a 353 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: lead pot so it tastes nice and sweet. So when 354 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: it comes to candy, obviously, candy is generally sweetened through 355 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: a much more conventional means, namely sugar or or some 356 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: sugar substitute. But during the time of Wiley's Wars against 357 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:45,199 Speaker 1: Dangerous Foods, children's candy was routinely laced with lead and 358 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 1: other heavy metals to color it. Yea to impart this 359 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: kind of you know, often describes a kind of an 360 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: orange coloration, which is just you know, terrifying to imagine, 361 00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: because I'm just imagining like one of these red suckers 362 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,360 Speaker 1: that you get at the supermarket nowadays, and just imagine 363 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: that being laced with lead and being handed to a child. Now, 364 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: as the CDC points out, lead was and in some 365 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: parts of the world still is added to foods not 366 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: only to impart an inviting orange color, but also indeed 367 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: to sweeten it or to increase its weight. Again getting 368 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: back to the idea that oftentimes food, especially in bulk, 369 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: is price based on weight. That you cut the dope 370 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: of candy, but it's with lead, So so that's like 371 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: three different levels of poisonous deception. They're possibly in play 372 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: in any given piece of lead laced candy. Make it 373 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: cost more via way, make it look more attractive via color, 374 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: and artificially enhance the flavor to some extent as well. 375 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: And this applies not just to candy but to other 376 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:49,439 Speaker 1: food stuffs with lead, often introduced via a spice blend. Now, 377 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: of course, there are other ways that lead can get 378 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 1: into candy as well. Uh and still can get into candy. 379 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,919 Speaker 1: There's a there was case I was looking at in 380 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 1: which a six year old boy was a led really 381 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 1: poisoned by lead containing uh Tamarando candy jam products purchased 382 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: on a visit to Mexico with his aunt. However, it 383 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: seems like a case in which the lead contamination was 384 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: linked to the fact that it was quote candy packaged 385 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: in ceramic jars from Mexico at the time, and as 386 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 1: the California Department of Health points out, it is quote 387 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: not entirely clear where the lead in many of the 388 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 1: products is coming from, but products containing tamarind, chili powder, 389 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: or salt that is mine from certain parts of the 390 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: world may have a higher likelihood of elevated levels of lead. 391 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,360 Speaker 1: Lead may also be introduced into the candy through improper drying, storing, 392 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: or grinding of the ingredients. Now, as we know from 393 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: our our our old alchemist friend Paracelsus, it is of 394 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: course the dose that makes the poison, and this applies 395 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: in multiple ways. It can apply to some things, can 396 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 1: be can accumulate in the body and their effects over 397 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: time with chronic exposure. Sometimes it also just has to 398 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 1: do with an acute dose. It's possible that, you know, 399 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: lead compounds have been used in many food products over 400 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: time that if they're in small enough concentration, there's not 401 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: much of a noticeable effect on the people who eat them. 402 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: But I bet in many of these cases, the the 403 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: concentration of lead in the products is probably not very 404 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: tightly controlled, especially in the past and the nineteenth century 405 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: and stuff. So you might get suddenly a gumball or 406 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 1: candy that's got a lot more lead than usual, leading 407 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: to you know, high levels in an acute sense. But 408 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 1: also eating this candy over time could lead to effects 409 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: that people don't even necessarily associate with the candy. Right. Yeah, 410 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: and then another factor that was brought up in the 411 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: case study of the child is that obviously, like children 412 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: are going to be more susceptible, uh, individuals with smaller 413 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,400 Speaker 1: body weight, etcetera, which of course is all the more 414 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: troubling because we are talking about candy which is inherently 415 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,439 Speaker 1: for children. Alright, time to take a break, but we 416 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: will be right back with more. Alright, we're back. Should 417 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 1: we talk about some more weird color additives? Alright, So 418 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: these are some more examples that come from Adam Burrows 419 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 1: j D's palette of our palettes. Uh, some of these 420 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: are a number of these are not nefarious, but I'm 421 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 1: just going to touch on them anyway because it gives 422 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: I think a broader understanding of how and why we 423 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:15,719 Speaker 1: color our food and what we used to do it. 424 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: Um cocuineal insects have long been used to make the 425 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: dye carmine, Traditionally used in fabrics, it also pops up 426 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: in cosmetics and food coloring. Again, not deadly unless you're 427 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: one of the insects that gets ground up to in 428 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: part of a reddish coloration, but it's still interesting. Saffron 429 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: we already touched on, also not deadly, though of course, 430 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,199 Speaker 1: with any spice you'll run into adverse reactions if you 431 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: consume too much of it. A little saffron tends to 432 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: go along long way. It's derived from the saffron crocus flour, 433 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,239 Speaker 1: and it's long been used in cooking, both for its 434 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: flavor and for its strong yellow coloration. Now we mentioned 435 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 1: earlier like cutting the dope, adding something that's not the 436 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,479 Speaker 1: dope to the dope that you know, bulkes it up 437 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: and makes it more attractive initially. And this this to 438 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: a famous quote from a giant. I'll grind your bones 439 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: to make my bread. Oh yeah, that's from what Jack 440 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: and the Bean saw. Yeah. Yeah, So he climbs up 441 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: there and the I don't get it. Why is he 442 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 1: grinding his bones. I yeah, I always troubled me as 443 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: a kid because I'm like, I don't know not much 444 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 1: about bread making. I'm not a baker, but I know 445 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: you don't make bread out of bones that are ground up. 446 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: It makes a little more sense, though, when you understand 447 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:31,159 Speaker 1: that a typical medieval baker's trick was to brighten up 448 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: bread by using ground bone, lime or chalk. Whoa In fact, 449 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: King Edward the first outlied this practice, and uh, and 450 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: here's a here's a reading of the law. If any 451 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: default shall be found in the bread of a baker 452 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: in the city the first time, let him be drawn 453 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: upon a hurdle from the guild hall to his own house, 454 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: through the great street, where there be most people assembled, 455 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: and through the streets which are most dirty, with the 456 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: faulty loaf hanging from his neck. If a second time 457 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: he shall be found committing the same offense, let him 458 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: be drawn from the guildhall through the great street of 459 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: cheap Ee to the pillory, and let him be put 460 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,640 Speaker 1: up on the pillory, and remain there at least one 461 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: hour in the day. And the third time that such 462 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: default shall be found, be shall be drawn, and the 463 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: oven shall be pulled down and the baker made to 464 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: forswear the trade in the city forever. Whoa, the shame 465 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: walk with bread around your neck. That's what you get 466 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: if you put bone or something else in the bread. 467 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: Victorian era Europe saw copper salts used to turn pickles 468 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: and vegetables of a brighter green color. Apparently, and as 469 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: described in eighteen twenty by English chemist Frederick Acum, a 470 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: key individual in the crackdown on illucid ad additives at 471 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 1: the time. Uh He said the following this quote comes 472 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: from Burrows uh right up as well. Quote. Vegetable substances 473 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: preserved in a state called pickles wholesale frequently depends greatly 474 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: upon a fine, lively green color, and sometimes intentionally colored 475 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: by means of copper. A young lady amused herself by 476 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: eating pickles impregnated with copper. She soon complained of a 477 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,159 Speaker 1: pain in her stomach in nine days after eating the pickle. 478 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 1: Death relieved her of her suffering. Whoa and Acam also 479 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: pointed to the use of these coloring additives in candies 480 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: uh and in which she pointed out vermilion would contain 481 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: mercury red lead. It was another one white lead verdigris, 482 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,880 Speaker 1: which is a copper salt blue vitriol which contains copper, 483 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:39,199 Speaker 1: and then sheelds green, which contains copper and arsenic. Fields 484 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: green is a massive historical case of I think primarily 485 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 1: not used in food, right, primarily used in like I 486 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: don't know, coloring walls and stuff like that, but I 487 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,360 Speaker 1: think you see that with a few of these different things, 488 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,199 Speaker 1: Like there'll be a dye and it's fine if you're 489 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: dyeing fabrics with it, but then to turn around and 490 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: use it in food is either you know, is at 491 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: least ill advised, if not like a nefarious act. Oh, 492 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: I'm not saying siels green is fine. I think shields 493 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: green is famous for poisonous people in history, like even 494 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: through fabric it was one of the real bad ones. 495 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: In addition, iron compounds were sometimes used to redden up foods, 496 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 1: and then the dye Prussian blue, along with yellow gypsum, 497 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,959 Speaker 1: were often added to Chinese green teas to make them 498 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: more green and inviting to foreign markets. Uh in in 499 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,439 Speaker 1: Prussian blue contained arsenic. This reminds me of the uh 500 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: the situation with absinthe um. When you when you see 501 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: like a selection of absence at a you know, absinthe bar. 502 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: Generally speaking, if I remember correctly, you're gonna want to 503 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: go for the ones that do not look as much 504 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: like storybook absinthe like. The more it looks like mouthwash like, 505 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: it's a sign that some sort of coloration has been added, 506 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: probably not arsenic. I'm not saying it's arsenic, but but 507 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 1: something has been added to enhance that coloration and make 508 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: it more attractive to at least the casual audience. I 509 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 1: see it, make it uh to use a tokenism, look 510 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: fairer and taste fowler yes. And then there's the coloring 511 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: of butter and butter like products. Burrows points out that 512 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: there was a thirteen nine French edict against coloring butter, 513 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: and later a fifteen seventy four law preventing the use 514 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,880 Speaker 1: of colors and pastries to simulate the presence of eggs. 515 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: And then there were the Then there were the margarine wars, 516 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: which we've touched on on the show in the past, 517 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: in which butter manufacturers sought to protect their turf by 518 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: seeking laws against yellow dyes and margarine. And and even 519 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,439 Speaker 1: though adding the requirement of pink dye to make it 520 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 1: clear that margarine was not butter, and in fact the U. S. 521 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,919 Speaker 1: Supreme Court had to intervene and overturned state laws in 522 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: thirty two pro butter states, according to the Butter wars 523 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 1: by published in nat Geo, and this was by Rebecca Rupp. Now, again, 524 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,959 Speaker 1: while it is clear that some compounds used as dyes 525 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 1: in history have turned out to be dangerous in one 526 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: form or another, this is certainly not to suggest that 527 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: all or even most of these compounds have any kind 528 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 1: of negative health effects. But concerns about such have definitely 529 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: continued into the modern area era, whether founded or not. Yeah, 530 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,880 Speaker 1: And if you want to learn more about this sort 531 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: of the modern state and recent history of of of 532 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: die considerations, die outraged, die pendents, etcetera, I'd refer you 533 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: to Burrows for more on this, because he gets into 534 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: a lot of the concerns over modern dies and sometimes 535 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: the urban legends about their dangers, such as the notion 536 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: that Mountain Dew's yellow in our five reduces sperm count, 537 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,239 Speaker 1: which which is not the case, but that was like 538 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: that was an urban legend that was making the rounds 539 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: at one point. However, I will leave leave you all 540 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: with this quote from Burrows on the history and future 541 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: of color additives. I think he sums us up nicely. Quote, 542 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: it is hard to believe that only a century ago 543 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: our ancestors were eating food died with highly toxic color additives. 544 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: From that auspicious starting point, we have come to a 545 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: time where a food colorant with a one in nineteen 546 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: billion chance of causing cancer is legally considered too dangerous. 547 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: What we used to die our foods and how we 548 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: regulate it may continue to change, but there is no 549 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: end in sight to the timeless practice of coloring our food. 550 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,479 Speaker 1: This is interesting, like the idea that I don't know, 551 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: whenever you're making a ruling on this kind of thing, 552 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: you can't you can't ever say that something is you're 553 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: sure one hundred percent safe. So like, what's the threshold 554 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: you're comfortable with You're like, okay, if maybe if we 555 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,719 Speaker 1: use this die in fruit loops for a hundred years, 556 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: one person will be killed by it? Is that like 557 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: do we just decide, Okay, if it's just one person 558 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: every hundred years getting killed by the die, then it's okay. Yeah. 559 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: And I wondered to, like to what, like, what is 560 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: our ultimate relationship with the idea of adding die to 561 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: a food product, is it one of I mean, if 562 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: we're oblivious to it's just oh, it's this is super red. 563 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: I'm very attracted to it. I must have this candy 564 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: or apple or whatever the product is what we with 565 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: the eyes first. But but then if if there also 566 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,479 Speaker 1: seems to be this this this this broad category of 567 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: just distrust associated with food coloration as well. Uh, this 568 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: this idea that and properly instilled, you know, pretty early 569 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: on via some of these frauds that were perpetrated, the 570 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: idea that if there's some sort of artificial color there, 571 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: there's something in the food that should not be there. Uh, 572 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: they're like the understanding that this food is super red 573 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: in an unnatural way. Um, why is that the case? 574 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: Something is trying to fool me with this food. It's 575 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: the post Watergate era of relationship with foods. I mean, 576 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: you know, it's are just general, uh distrustful attitude in 577 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: the modern world. I think, you know, there there are 578 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: reasons for us to feel that way, even if we're 579 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: not necessarily correct about perceived dangers in industrial additives to 580 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: food products. And another thing I wanted to clarify, I 581 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: know that when you say that, you know, when you're 582 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: talking about a one in nineteen billion chance of a 583 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: die killing somebody, I understand that's talking about like confidence intervals. 584 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: That doesn't literally mean that like one person will die 585 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: for every you know, it's just a way of expressing 586 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: how confident you are generally that something is safe. And 587 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: again I recommend everyone to check out that Borrows article 588 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: if you want more, you know, in depth consideration of dies. 589 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: But I think that's that's probably enough for for food 590 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: additives for dies. At this point, we're gonna take a 591 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: quick break and when we come back, we're going to 592 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: open up some beer. Alright, we're back now. I want 593 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: to start with we we've done these in some of 594 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: the Dangerous Food episodes in the past, to to do 595 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: a little sort of epidemiological detective story where there's a 596 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: sudden outbreak of symptoms and then people are trying to 597 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: figure out what caused it. Uh So we're gonna go 598 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 1: back to the nineteen sixties to the mid to late 599 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, and in this period, doctors in hospitals and 600 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: clinics across a number of metro areas in Europe, in 601 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: the United States, and Canada began to notice a strange 602 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: pattern of cases, patients showing up with a sudden onset 603 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: of an unusual form of cardiomyopathy, which is a disease 604 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: of the heart muscle in which parts of the heart 605 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: can become enlarged or stiff, or just generally aren't working properly. 606 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: Uh So, between August nineteen sixty five and April nineteen 607 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: sixty six, a rash of cases appeared around the area 608 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: of Quebec City in Canada, enough to signal that there 609 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: was some kind of pattern going on to local clinicians 610 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: and pathologists who at first thought, well, maybe the epidemic 611 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: is viral in nature. But a study of thirty patients 612 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: could not isolate a viral cause for this strange kind 613 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: of cardio myopathy. Uh and this was described in the 614 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven report I'll sight in a minute. Instead, 615 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: what the patients seem to have in common was that 616 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 1: they were all heavy beer drinkers. Um. So, alcoholic beverages 617 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: are an interesting case to explore when you're talking about, 618 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: you know, dangerous foods, because alcoholic beverages already contain a 619 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: perfectly powerful and dangerous active ingredient which is alcohol, according 620 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: to itally by the U s c DC, and about 621 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: people in the United States die every year from alcohol poisoning. 622 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: And that's just alcohol poisoning, which is an acute overdose 623 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: of alcohol leading directly to death. If you expand that 624 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: number to alcohol related deaths such as you know, deaths 625 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 1: from from chronic alcohol abuse, or include stuff like you know, 626 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: traffic collisions caused by people driving under the influence, the 627 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: number is obviously going to be a lot higher. Yeah, 628 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: among other things. That is a great insight into the 629 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: the uneven way in which we uh we we we 630 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: we we govern the consumption and purchase of various dangerous substances. 631 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, but for yeah, so for alcohol poisoning alone, 632 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: people every year as of that's an average of six 633 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: people who die every single day, and just in the 634 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: United States, and an overwhelming majority of the people who 635 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,320 Speaker 1: die from alcohol poisoning are adult men. Seventy six percent 636 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:15,800 Speaker 1: of deaths from alcohol poisoning occur among men, and seventy 637 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: six are also between people of the ages thirty five 638 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: to sixty four. And of course, the primary cause of 639 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: death in these cases is suppression of the life sustaining 640 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 1: functions of the brain and the central nervous system. Alright, 641 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 1: so the basic scenario is you have a a population 642 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 1: of people who are already drinking something that is arguably poison, 643 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,320 Speaker 1: but something else may be involved. Right, These cases of 644 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,800 Speaker 1: cardio myopathy did not seem to stem from the acute 645 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: or chronic effects of alcohol itself. So look at a study, 646 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: the sort of breakthrough study on on the first big 647 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: look at this it was by Eve's Marine and Philippe 648 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:58,719 Speaker 1: Daniel called Quebec Beer Drinkers cardio Myopathy Ideological Considerations that 649 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 1: means considerations for the origin of this outbreak. It was 650 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: published in the Canadian Medical Association Journal in nineteen sixty 651 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 1: seven and the authors here mentioned that there was a 652 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 1: similar outbreak of sudden cardio myopathy in Omaha, Nebraska. I 653 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: was also looking at a nineteen seventy two paper by 654 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: a doctor named Carl S. Alexander describing an outbreak of 655 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,879 Speaker 1: cardio myopathy in twenty eight patients admitted to the VA 656 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: Hospital in Minneapolis, Minnesota between nineteen sixty four and nineteen 657 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,760 Speaker 1: sixty seven. So again mid mid to late sixties, especially 658 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 1: in these Midwestern and northern cities, sudden outbreak of of 659 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: strange type of heart disease. Uh. And again, what these 660 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 1: cases seem to have in common was heavy consumption of 661 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: beer and sudden unusual cardio myopathy. So, according to Alexander, 662 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,280 Speaker 1: a total of forty two patients with acute cardiac distress 663 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: were admitted to the hospital in Minneapolis, but the study 664 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 1: focused on just twenty eight of them because those twenty 665 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,399 Speaker 1: eight admitted to drinking up to thirty bottles of not 666 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: just beer, but one particular brand of beer, Brand X 667 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: in Alexander's paper, and denied drinking any other alcoholic beverages. 668 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: The other fourteen patients were excluded from the initial study 669 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: because they drank other kinds of alcohol as well as 670 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: Brand X beer. Actually, now brand X is just to 671 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 1: cover the name of the actual manufacturer, right right, And 672 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: that's just in the literature. I will name one of 673 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 1: the culprits that we get too log on. But yeah, 674 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,720 Speaker 1: Alexander's paper was published in seventy two in the American 675 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 1: Journal of Medicine. And again this is looking at a 676 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 1: broader study of of this phenomenon. Here. Now, Alexander mentions 677 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 1: that there are types of cardiomyopathy that you would otherwise 678 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 1: expect to find among patients with alcoholism, and these cases 679 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 1: were different in their symptoms and onset. Like Alexander says, quote, 680 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 1: the syndrome differed from alcoholic cardiomyopathy and berry berry which 681 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 1: again that's another related disease caused by a deficiency of 682 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:03,399 Speaker 1: vitamin B one also known as thiamine. And Alexander says 683 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,880 Speaker 1: the way it differed from these other known conditions was 684 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,840 Speaker 1: quote in its rather abrupt onset of left ventricular failure, 685 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: cardiogenic shock, and acidosis. So cardiogenic shock is when the 686 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 1: heart suddenly fails to pump enough blood to provide circulation 687 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 1: to the rest of the body, often happens as the 688 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: result of a heart attack. Acidosis is an imbalance in 689 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: the pH of the blood in which the blood plasma 690 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 1: becomes overly acidic. Alexander also mentions two other unique features 691 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,319 Speaker 1: of these apparent epidemics, as identified in Belgium by a 692 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 1: doctor named Kes salute Uh and these were pericardial effusion, 693 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 1: and this is when there's an excess of fluids surrounding 694 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,799 Speaker 1: the heart inside the pericardium, which is a kind of 695 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 1: sack that surrounds the heart muscle. So you've got the 696 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: heart is inside its sack, and then there's a bunch 697 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 1: of fluid in that sack, and then there is UH. 698 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,360 Speaker 1: There were also elevated hemoglobin levels. Hemoglobin is the protein 699 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 1: in red blood cells the body uses to transport oxygen 700 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 1: molecules from the lungs to the rest of the body. UH. 701 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 1: And you might see elevated levels of hemoglobin in any 702 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,840 Speaker 1: kind of condition where the body is struggling to supply 703 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 1: itself with enough oxygen. So this could range from high altitude, 704 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: say right, because you know you're not getting enough with 705 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: each breath, so you see increased hemoglobin in the blood, 706 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 1: to various lung and heart diseases. Alexander mentioned that among 707 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: the patients he reviewed, acute mortality was eighteen percent, but 708 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 1: the disease was associated with lingering symptoms and disabilities that 709 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,319 Speaker 1: led to a total mortality of forty three percent. So 710 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: ultimately forty three percent of the people he saw with 711 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,719 Speaker 1: this condition died from it, and so it took a 712 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 1: bit of work to isolate the cause of these outbreaks. 713 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: Especially it was in the first one in Quebec City 714 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 1: in the years nineteen sixty five to nineteen sixty six. 715 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,760 Speaker 1: The investigating physicians established that it probably was not caused 716 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 1: by a virus, that it seemed to be associated with 717 00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: heavy beer drinking, but that it didn't look like nor 718 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,279 Speaker 1: more alcoholic cardiomyopathy, and they discovered something else similar to 719 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 1: what Alexander discovered later in his study about the Minneapolis patients. 720 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 1: In Quebec city, it wasn't just that the patients were 721 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,439 Speaker 1: heavy beer drinkers. They drink a lot of one specific 722 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,239 Speaker 1: brand of beer. Uh Moren and Daniel speaking of this 723 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,839 Speaker 1: brewery that made this beer quote, it's excellent tasting. Brew 724 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 1: was and still is very popular in Quebec and accounts 725 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,720 Speaker 1: for approximately eight percent of the local market. Later reports 726 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: revealed this to be the Tao Brewery. So quick question, 727 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 1: does this have Does this have any uh? Did this 728 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 1: inspire the movie Strange Brew? Is there anything I haven't 729 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 1: seen Stranger I've never seen it either. I just okay, well, 730 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 1: I'm just familiar with it by you know, reputation that 731 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,359 Speaker 1: it concerns some sort of strange Canadian brew of beer 732 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 1: and it's you know, cinematic powers. I kind of doubt 733 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,239 Speaker 1: it because I think that movie is a comedy and 734 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,319 Speaker 1: this ultimately is not that funny of a story though 735 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: it does have I don't know. I guess it has 736 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:02,839 Speaker 1: some funny tragedy plus time comedy. Right. Yes, of course 737 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,760 Speaker 1: what happened to the people who drank it is not funny. 738 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 1: But like when you when we find out what was 739 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:11,120 Speaker 1: causing this, it is actually kind of strange. So Moren 740 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 1: and Daniel mentioned that they were inspired to look more 741 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: closely at the constituents of the beer made by this 742 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,719 Speaker 1: brewery because of a specific historical analogy, and that's the 743 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,840 Speaker 1: Great English Beer poisoning of nineteen hundred. Uh. This was 744 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 1: an incident in which thousands of people across Middle and 745 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 1: Northwest England, especially in the city of Manchester, were poisoned 746 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,600 Speaker 1: by beer. Of the thousands who were poisoned, at least 747 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 1: around seventy or so died. And I think it was 748 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,279 Speaker 1: originally believed to be nothing more than a bunch of 749 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 1: you know, known pathologies affecting alcoholics. A Royal commission in 750 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: Great Britain investigated the incident and discovered that the outbreak 751 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,920 Speaker 1: of symptoms was due to contamination of these batches of 752 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:57,439 Speaker 1: beer with the chemical element arsenic and known poison. Now, 753 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: given the isolation of this beer, source and a bit 754 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,320 Speaker 1: of historical analogy. Finally a theory started to come together, 755 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 1: and it starts with beer foam and dish detergent. So 756 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: you ever seen a beer commercial on TV? The kind? 757 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 1: I know you've seen one at least. Sometimes you know 758 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,279 Speaker 1: you're hanging out by the pool party and with the 759 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: bottles or the cans, but sometimes you're a giant amid 760 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,400 Speaker 1: the mountains and the ball back and forth. Which was 761 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,800 Speaker 1: the beer company that had the had the big like 762 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,319 Speaker 1: transformers monster, I don't know, see they all they all 763 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:30,919 Speaker 1: going to run together for me, and I was never, 764 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,640 Speaker 1: you know, a customer, but you know, sometimes you're partying 765 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: with a dog. Just about anything can happen in a 766 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,920 Speaker 1: beer commercial, Okay, So I'm trying to get you to 767 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: picture a specific kind, which is the one where, uh, 768 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 1: somebody is pouring a nice frosty glass of beer straight 769 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,120 Speaker 1: from the tap into a mug or or a pint 770 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,680 Speaker 1: glass and handing it across the bar to the earthy 771 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,799 Speaker 1: Marlboro man who's off work and ready to relax with 772 00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: his friends. You know this kind, right with the ball 773 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 1: are with the glass with especially the frothy head at 774 00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,319 Speaker 1: the top of the glass, right and the marble man 775 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,840 Speaker 1: is going to drink from it, and he's gonna have 776 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:12,320 Speaker 1: the foam stuck on his mustache. Yeh got foam? Yeah. 777 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,319 Speaker 1: And so in this genre of beer commercial clearly one 778 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 1: of the most important is that equalities of that glass 779 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 1: of beer is the foamy top. Some people call it 780 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,760 Speaker 1: the head, some people call it the collar. This foam 781 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,840 Speaker 1: is caused by the quick rising of bubbles from previously 782 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,680 Speaker 1: dissolved gas. Usually it's gonna be carbon dioxide, but I 783 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,520 Speaker 1: think some brands actually dissolved nitrogen in there to help 784 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,239 Speaker 1: with the foam. Guinness or some brands might do that. 785 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,040 Speaker 1: But these bubbles form at nucleation points in the glass 786 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,360 Speaker 1: of beer as it's poured, and they shoot up to 787 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 1: the top of the glass where they collect in a 788 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 1: mesh of bubbles and proteins from the malt in the 789 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,279 Speaker 1: beer and bitter hop compounds. I was looking at an 790 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,160 Speaker 1: article that interviewed a professor of biochemistry at Cornell named 791 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,479 Speaker 1: Carl Siebert on the subject of what constitutes beer foam, 792 00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 1: and Siebert mentioned that one of the important proteins and 793 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,719 Speaker 1: beer that collects in these bubbles and this matrix of 794 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,880 Speaker 1: bubbles and proteins in beer foam is albumen, which I 795 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,360 Speaker 1: thought I would just add, is also the same primary 796 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,279 Speaker 1: family of proteins that you find in egg whites. So 797 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,080 Speaker 1: is there something shared in common between your logger head 798 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,359 Speaker 1: and that egg white omelet a little bit or your 799 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,640 Speaker 1: ramos gin fizz, which of course is going to have 800 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,800 Speaker 1: that nice, creamy, frothy consistency because of the egg whites 801 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,440 Speaker 1: that are part of the recipe. Oh that's right, yeah. 802 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,240 Speaker 1: But but in the beer, like the head of the beer, 803 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:31,399 Speaker 1: I know that you're not supposed to have too much 804 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 1: of it, right, Like that's a sign of a bad 805 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,319 Speaker 1: poor right. Yeah. So I think it's widely agreed by 806 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,960 Speaker 1: beer drinkers that a glass of beer without a correctly 807 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,520 Speaker 1: proportioned layer of head is wrong. If you get too 808 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,560 Speaker 1: much head, if it takes up like half the glass, 809 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:46,760 Speaker 1: or if you have none at all, you have failed 810 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,040 Speaker 1: to beer. But it's I'm assuming you still need a 811 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,319 Speaker 1: certain amount of foam at the top for it just 812 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,680 Speaker 1: to feel like you're drinking beer, right, And and the 813 00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,719 Speaker 1: beer industry has studied the chemistry of beer foam extensively 814 00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,200 Speaker 1: to meet the perceived customer demand for the right kind 815 00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:03,319 Speaker 1: of frothy head on a glass of beer. But the 816 00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,680 Speaker 1: researchers Moran and Daniel note that by the mid nineteen sixties, 817 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:11,880 Speaker 1: beer manufacturers were encountering a problem that beer wasn't looking 818 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:15,120 Speaker 1: right in a lot of bars. It didn't have that nice, 819 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,080 Speaker 1: frothy head that they believed the customers were looking for, 820 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:20,719 Speaker 1: and this was believed to be the result of the 821 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:25,360 Speaker 1: use of synthetic dishwashing detergents used to clean beer glasses, 822 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:29,800 Speaker 1: which after cleaning and insufficient rinsing, would leave a layer 823 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,640 Speaker 1: of film on the inside of the beer glass that 824 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,440 Speaker 1: interfered with the beer's ability to foam up and create 825 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,880 Speaker 1: a nice head. Interesting. I never thought about that. So 826 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:45,000 Speaker 1: around July nine, some Canadian brewers and presumably brewers elsewhere 827 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:49,680 Speaker 1: found a solution in modern chemistry in an additive chemical 828 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:54,520 Speaker 1: compound that Moran and Daniel originally identify as cobalt sulfate, 829 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,839 Speaker 1: but which later authors I think more correctly identified as 830 00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,160 Speaker 1: cobalt chloride. Uh. But the main thing here is that 831 00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:05,279 Speaker 1: it's a cobalt compound. This cobalt compound was added to 832 00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:10,520 Speaker 1: draft beer batches to stabilize the beer head and overcome 833 00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:14,360 Speaker 1: any anti foaming influence of detergent residue left in the 834 00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,200 Speaker 1: beer glass. So obviously we know where this is heading. 835 00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,440 Speaker 1: But and so it's probably coloring my judgment. But already 836 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,839 Speaker 1: it sounds like if you're fighting detergent film uh through 837 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,480 Speaker 1: the food product itself, through the beer itself, Like that's 838 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,640 Speaker 1: a bad sign, right right? Uh? And and again this 839 00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,600 Speaker 1: would be something that they were only really supposed to 840 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,000 Speaker 1: be dealing with through draft beer, right and it's going 841 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,280 Speaker 1: to be poured into a glass in a bar or something. 842 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,200 Speaker 1: It wouldn't be the same in a bottle because it, 843 00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,520 Speaker 1: you know, number one, the head doesn't really matter in 844 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:45,920 Speaker 1: the bottle as much. And then presumably that bottle is 845 00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,279 Speaker 1: going to be completely clean and not have any kind 846 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,640 Speaker 1: of like you have control over what you're you're pre 847 00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,719 Speaker 1: cleaning the bottles with exactly. Yeah. But it turns out 848 00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:57,160 Speaker 1: that at least in this Quebec City brewery, this stuff 849 00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,600 Speaker 1: was being added to both the draft beer and the 850 00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,839 Speaker 1: bottled beer batches because they didn't make them separately. They 851 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:05,880 Speaker 1: made them all in one batch and then split them 852 00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,960 Speaker 1: up later. So so they're putting cobalt in the beer. 853 00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:10,960 Speaker 1: I wonder how that's going to turn about. Let's talk 854 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:15,200 Speaker 1: about cobalt. Cobalt is a chemical element atomic number twenty seven. 855 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,840 Speaker 1: It's one of the transition metals of the periodic table. 856 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,480 Speaker 1: It's essentially never found in its pure form in nature. 857 00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,640 Speaker 1: It's always bound up with other elements in compounds and 858 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:29,440 Speaker 1: compound minerals and other stuff. Very cool etymology. Fact. The 859 00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:35,000 Speaker 1: English name cobalt comes from the German word cobalt, which 860 00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:38,960 Speaker 1: in its general sense means goblin or imp or demon. 861 00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:43,560 Speaker 1: More specifically, it refers to a breed of German household 862 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:48,040 Speaker 1: or subterranean goblin. Uh, there would be ones in your house, 863 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,759 Speaker 1: ones sometimes I think in ships, and definitely in minds. 864 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,239 Speaker 1: And these goblins could be full of tricks and mischief 865 00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:01,080 Speaker 1: if you offended them. Yes. So, the cobalt ore was 866 00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,799 Speaker 1: rarely sought out for its own sake at this time, 867 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,879 Speaker 1: but it was usually a byproduct of mining for other 868 00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:11,160 Speaker 1: metals like silver or copper. And it seemed some miners 869 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,640 Speaker 1: and refiners and metal workers that this other element in 870 00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:18,640 Speaker 1: the ore carried impish or demonic qualities, since it was 871 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,760 Speaker 1: believed to make workers sick with its fumes and degrade 872 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,360 Speaker 1: the quality of silver. Now I think it seems actually 873 00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,759 Speaker 1: with historical perspective that what was really making people sick 874 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:32,480 Speaker 1: during this refining process was the arsenic content of the ore, 875 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:37,000 Speaker 1: but the Goblin name stuck with cobalt. Cobalt remains the 876 00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:41,120 Speaker 1: Goblin metal. Cobalt was first chemically isolated in the seventeen 877 00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,319 Speaker 1: thirties by the Swedish chemist gae Org Bronte. But the 878 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,720 Speaker 1: use of compounds containing cobalt goes back into the ancient world. 879 00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,040 Speaker 1: Going back to our dye discussion, it appears that it 880 00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:53,040 Speaker 1: was often for the use of coloring. It was to 881 00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:57,200 Speaker 1: pigment or color statuettes in ancient Egypt, or beads in 882 00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:01,320 Speaker 1: ancient Persia, and cobalt was used in ceramics in China. 883 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,759 Speaker 1: But what happens when you start eating or drinking it? Well, 884 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,600 Speaker 1: Cobalt appears to have a very complex range of biological 885 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,799 Speaker 1: effects uh At the same time, of course, it is 886 00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:15,520 Speaker 1: not a pure poison. In fact, cobalt compounds in small 887 00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,640 Speaker 1: quantities are important for good health in a number of animals. 888 00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,120 Speaker 1: Or I said compounds plural. I think there's at least 889 00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:23,520 Speaker 1: one known one I can think of, which is vitamin 890 00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,919 Speaker 1: B twelve, also known as kobalaman. It contains cobalt and 891 00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,479 Speaker 1: UH and B twelve is of course essential for good health. 892 00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,520 Speaker 1: It sustains functions like cell metabolism, red blood cell formation 893 00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,719 Speaker 1: or the i think, the maturation of red blood cells, 894 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,640 Speaker 1: and in DNA synthesis. And in fact, there were already 895 00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:45,160 Speaker 1: by the nineteen sixties known therapeutic uses of cobalt. But again, 896 00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:48,160 Speaker 1: to revisit Paracelsus, it's the dose that makes the poison. 897 00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:51,799 Speaker 1: While some small amounts of some forms of cobalt are 898 00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,520 Speaker 1: necessary in the body, humans are also extremely sensitive to 899 00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,360 Speaker 1: large doses of cobalt. So, to come back to the 900 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:02,280 Speaker 1: Quebec city outbreak in nineteen sixty five, according to Morin 901 00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:06,440 Speaker 1: and Daniel, the myocardial toxicity of cobalt was already known 902 00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:10,280 Speaker 1: to medical science in the nineteen sixties. Studies had already 903 00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:14,080 Speaker 1: shown that metabolized cobalt is deposited in the muscle tissue 904 00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,440 Speaker 1: of the heart and it will reduce the ability of 905 00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:19,319 Speaker 1: the heart muscles to contract, which of course they need 906 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,320 Speaker 1: to do to pump blood. So the detectives here looked 907 00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,040 Speaker 1: into the timing of when cobalt was added to the 908 00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:29,040 Speaker 1: beer and the appearance of patients with beer drinkers cardiomyopathy, 909 00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,759 Speaker 1: and it was clear that the cobalt in the beer 910 00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:35,160 Speaker 1: was primarily to blame. After a pattern was discovered in 911 00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,799 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty six, breweries in the United States and 912 00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,800 Speaker 1: Canada and elsewhere were ordered by their governments to stop 913 00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:46,240 Speaker 1: using cobalt additives. And this appears to have stopped the 914 00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:48,880 Speaker 1: the you know, people showing up at hospitals and clinics 915 00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,960 Speaker 1: with this unique type of cardio myopathy in the following months. Robert, 916 00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,360 Speaker 1: I've attached a little timeline for you here, but you 917 00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,640 Speaker 1: can see quite clearly a pattern where basically the cobalt 918 00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,960 Speaker 1: is introduced and and the patients start showing up, the 919 00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,200 Speaker 1: cobalt is removed, and the patients stopped showing up. Oh yeah, 920 00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,359 Speaker 1: it is a there is a clear correlation there. Now, 921 00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:10,279 Speaker 1: there are some peculiarities here, and one is that in 922 00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,400 Speaker 1: both the case of the nineteen hundred beer poisoning in 923 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:17,600 Speaker 1: England and the outbreaks of beer drinkers cardiomyopathy, it seemed 924 00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:20,160 Speaker 1: like at least some patients, maybe a lot of patients, 925 00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:24,120 Speaker 1: displayed symptoms that were more powerful than you would expect 926 00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:28,600 Speaker 1: from the doses of arsenic and cobalt alone, respectively. That 927 00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:31,560 Speaker 1: they received. So it also looks like the negative effects 928 00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:36,120 Speaker 1: of alcoholism, along with poor diet and nutrition, maybe contributing 929 00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:40,000 Speaker 1: to making the arsenic and the cobalt more potent poisons 930 00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,719 Speaker 1: than they would have been on their own. Nevertheless, I 931 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,800 Speaker 1: think it's totally clear that the cobalt was primarily the cause. 932 00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:49,800 Speaker 1: Uh and Moren and Daniel also add a really stern, 933 00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,799 Speaker 1: pretty harsh addendum to their paper. Uh. They point out 934 00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,840 Speaker 1: that the a chelating agent called E d t A 935 00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:00,360 Speaker 1: quote has been shown to prevent cobalt in toxic cation 936 00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,160 Speaker 1: in the animal. Had this metal been known to be 937 00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,680 Speaker 1: present in beer at the time of the epidemic, the 938 00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,640 Speaker 1: prompt administration of E d t A might have saved 939 00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:11,719 Speaker 1: some of our patients. The clinician accustomed to knowing the 940 00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,280 Speaker 1: exact composition of the drugs he uses, will therefore seriously 941 00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:19,000 Speaker 1: question the necessity for the secrecy that surrounds the use 942 00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,799 Speaker 1: of food or drink additives. That makes sense again, it 943 00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,080 Speaker 1: comes back to to to the the fact that in 944 00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,000 Speaker 1: the modern world we have such a robust palate from 945 00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,920 Speaker 1: which to create our various food products. Uh. Well, if 946 00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:34,719 Speaker 1: you're going to be treating an illness, that maybe due 947 00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:38,040 Speaker 1: to your particular food or drink product, you need to 948 00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,880 Speaker 1: have the secret ingredients fully listed so that medical personnel 949 00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:45,640 Speaker 1: can respond appropriately. Yeah, and I mean it's known here 950 00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,600 Speaker 1: that they're saying, if we'd known about the cobalt earlier, 951 00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:52,840 Speaker 1: some people who died might have lived. Uh, that's a 952 00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:55,880 Speaker 1: tragic reality. Um, this just that seems to be this 953 00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,239 Speaker 1: unfortunate side effect of the the idea of protecting recipes 954 00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:03,279 Speaker 1: and industrial secrets and stuff. But anyway, after the link 955 00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,840 Speaker 1: between the cobalt additive and the cardiac disease was discovered, 956 00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,799 Speaker 1: the use of cobalt, of course was suspended, as we said, 957 00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:12,440 Speaker 1: But there must have been plenty of cases around the 958 00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:17,880 Speaker 1: world of undiagnosed cobalt cardio myopathy, which doctors just mistook 959 00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,919 Speaker 1: for more common forms of heart disease. Eves Morin emphasizes 960 00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:27,480 Speaker 1: this point speaking to the CBC article about the cobalt poisoning. Quote, 961 00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,680 Speaker 1: you can't imagine the number of patients everywhere who died 962 00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:35,000 Speaker 1: from that disease because it wast mortality. But the story 963 00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:39,200 Speaker 1: doesn't in there. I was reading article from the CBC. Uh, 964 00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,080 Speaker 1: that was the one I just cited, and and the 965 00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:44,280 Speaker 1: occasion of this article was that there was another case 966 00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,359 Speaker 1: of cobalt poisoning that was recognized by a group of 967 00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,000 Speaker 1: doctors in Germany that year with the help of an 968 00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,800 Speaker 1: episode of the TV show House, which I've never seen before, 969 00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:57,400 Speaker 1: but apparently the doctor said the fact that cobalt poisoning 970 00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,000 Speaker 1: had showed up on an episode of the TV show 971 00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:04,000 Speaker 1: led them to along with the this historical case of 972 00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:07,600 Speaker 1: the beer outbreak in the sixties, led them to diagnose 973 00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:11,120 Speaker 1: correctly what was happening to fifty five year old man 974 00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:13,680 Speaker 1: who showed up in a hospital in Marburg, Germany with 975 00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:19,600 Speaker 1: severe heart failure, deafness, blindness, fever, hypothyroidism, and swollen lymph nodes, 976 00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:23,120 Speaker 1: and the doctors eventually pinpointed the cause of his sudden illness, 977 00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:27,640 Speaker 1: which was cobalt poisoning from metal hip implants. A common 978 00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:31,239 Speaker 1: use of cobalt today is in is in special like 979 00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:36,399 Speaker 1: alloy is like magnetic metals and alloys. And apparently this 980 00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,680 Speaker 1: patient had I think part of some kind of ceramic 981 00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,360 Speaker 1: object with part of it with his hip replacement rubbing 982 00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,040 Speaker 1: against the metal alloy element of the hip replacement, and 983 00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:51,520 Speaker 1: it was the rubbing was releasing cobalt into his bloodstream. 984 00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,040 Speaker 1: But the doctors figured this out. The patient had his 985 00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,640 Speaker 1: hip pros thesis removed and replaced with a new model, 986 00:53:57,080 --> 00:53:59,920 Speaker 1: after which the concentrations of cobalt and chromium in a 987 00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:03,040 Speaker 1: blood decreased and he recovered from some of the worst 988 00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,279 Speaker 1: of his symptoms, but not immediately from all of them. 989 00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,880 Speaker 1: Well that's that's that's very interesting. And as far as 990 00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:11,640 Speaker 1: house goes, I've never watched either. I love the lead actor. 991 00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:15,200 Speaker 1: But this is a great example of why it's it's 992 00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:17,480 Speaker 1: not a bad thing to get the science at least 993 00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,879 Speaker 1: mostly right in some sort of you know, popular form 994 00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:24,200 Speaker 1: of entertainment, because people are going to you know, they're 995 00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:26,879 Speaker 1: going to learn from it, uh, for better or worse, 996 00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,319 Speaker 1: you know. And here's an example of of of them 997 00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:33,960 Speaker 1: getting the science right or even mostly right, helped investigators 998 00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:36,080 Speaker 1: go in the right direction on this particular case. Yeah, 999 00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:39,400 Speaker 1: but I think this is such a bizarre and fascinating story, 1000 00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:42,600 Speaker 1: going from like the aesthetics of what beer looks like 1001 00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:47,600 Speaker 1: in a glass to to these outbreaks of metal poisoning. Yeah, yeah, 1002 00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:49,719 Speaker 1: and and and like and again it's clearly a case 1003 00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:52,000 Speaker 1: where the the individuals who did this, they were they 1004 00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:53,600 Speaker 1: were thinking, well, we just we want to make the 1005 00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:56,960 Speaker 1: beer look nicer. What can we add? Here's something that 1006 00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,359 Speaker 1: we can add, and it's gonna it's not gonna hurt 1007 00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:02,879 Speaker 1: anybody like that was clearly far from their minds. And 1008 00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:05,719 Speaker 1: uh and yet these were the unforeseen consequences. Yeah, but 1009 00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:09,080 Speaker 1: again that's the complexity of of of food in our 1010 00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:12,600 Speaker 1: modern world of processed food and uh and and certainly 1011 00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,239 Speaker 1: beer is a it's a as an artificial product. It 1012 00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,799 Speaker 1: is processed. I mean, it's stories like this that can 1013 00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:22,839 Speaker 1: make you. Normally you don't stop to to appreciate the bureaucrats, 1014 00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:25,960 Speaker 1: but it's stories like this can that can really make 1015 00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:29,120 Speaker 1: you say, like, hey, wow, it's it's actually amazing that 1016 00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:32,320 Speaker 1: that modern societies have come up with things like food 1017 00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:34,239 Speaker 1: and drug testing organize, you know, like a Food and 1018 00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:38,120 Speaker 1: Drug administration or something that looks at products that are 1019 00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,000 Speaker 1: going out to mass markets in an organized way to say, 1020 00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,480 Speaker 1: can we be pretty certain that this is safe before 1021 00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:46,399 Speaker 1: releasing it on the public. Right. We didn't always have that. 1022 00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:48,200 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's easy to say, you know, I 1023 00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:50,440 Speaker 1: don't want the government. You know, I'm saying what I 1024 00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:52,360 Speaker 1: can and can't put in my body. But if the 1025 00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:55,000 Speaker 1: thing we're talking about is a say, a lead laced 1026 00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:58,840 Speaker 1: UH sucker for a child or or or or a 1027 00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:03,000 Speaker 1: cobalt and used beer. You don't necessarily know what you're 1028 00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:06,560 Speaker 1: putting in your body. When I'm all for big Brother 1029 00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:11,359 Speaker 1: jumping in and weeding out you know, poisonous products like that. 1030 00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:14,520 Speaker 1: But that's just me. You may have a different opinion 1031 00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:17,279 Speaker 1: of poison. So anyway, I don't know if this was 1032 00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:21,760 Speaker 1: going to really help anybody out this Thanksgiving. Uh don't 1033 00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,960 Speaker 1: don't put cobalt on your turkey, right right? You don't 1034 00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:29,120 Speaker 1: just don't use any like hard heavy metals to uh 1035 00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:33,120 Speaker 1: to flavor or weigh down anything. But I don't know. 1036 00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:35,480 Speaker 1: I guess in general, you know you're going to use 1037 00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:39,480 Speaker 1: some processed foods during you know, whatever kind of feast 1038 00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:42,239 Speaker 1: you might be having, You're going to use additives or 1039 00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:44,200 Speaker 1: something that has added is added to it. And so 1040 00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:47,279 Speaker 1: it is I think inciple to understand the history of 1041 00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,759 Speaker 1: these things and UH and the Carol careful balance that 1042 00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:54,800 Speaker 1: is in play between you know, finding a nice color, 1043 00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,640 Speaker 1: enhancing a flavor, and potentially poisoning somebody. Can we end 1044 00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:01,239 Speaker 1: with just a food coloring hip? Sure you sort of 1045 00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,719 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier when you were listing natural foods that are 1046 00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:08,799 Speaker 1: sometimes used for their their dying properties or pigments. One 1047 00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:11,400 Speaker 1: that I think is a great substitute for saffron. It 1048 00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:13,680 Speaker 1: doesn't get the flavor there, but it also creates a 1049 00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:16,400 Speaker 1: wonderful yellow orange hue is just to use a little 1050 00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,040 Speaker 1: bit of turmeric. You don't have saffron at the house, 1051 00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:21,600 Speaker 1: but you want to make a nice yellow pot of rice, 1052 00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:23,120 Speaker 1: a little bit of turmeric in there. It goes a 1053 00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:26,480 Speaker 1: long way. Oh yeah, I love I love turmeric. All right, Well, 1054 00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:28,520 Speaker 1: we're gonna go ahead and call it here for this 1055 00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,560 Speaker 1: year's Dangerous Foods. But I think I think we'll probably 1056 00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:34,480 Speaker 1: be back next year with another Dangerous Foods episode. We 1057 00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:39,560 Speaker 1: did not exhaust the the the larder of poisons this time, 1058 00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:41,840 Speaker 1: so I think we'll be able to come back with 1059 00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:44,320 Speaker 1: some new angle next year. In the meantime, if you 1060 00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:45,880 Speaker 1: want to check out more episodes of Stuff to Blow 1061 00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,040 Speaker 1: your Mind, going over to stuff to Blow your Mind 1062 00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:50,560 Speaker 1: dot com. That's we will find them. That's the mother ship. Uh, 1063 00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:52,400 Speaker 1: And you can also find the show wherever you get 1064 00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:54,440 Speaker 1: your podcasts wherever it is. Just make sure you have 1065 00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:57,400 Speaker 1: subscribed and give us a rating and review that really 1066 00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:00,360 Speaker 1: helps us out. If you want a little horror fiction, 1067 00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:02,640 Speaker 1: check out the second oil age that's out wherever you 1068 00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:05,080 Speaker 1: get your podcast. You can also check out our other 1069 00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:09,920 Speaker 1: nonfiction show that being Invention. Invention is a journey through 1070 00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:14,160 Speaker 1: human techno history, one invention at a time. Uh. This month, 1071 00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:16,200 Speaker 1: there have been a number of food episodes, a two 1072 00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,320 Speaker 1: part look at the microwave for instance. Use a microwave 1073 00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:21,880 Speaker 1: every day? Do you know how it works? Well? You 1074 00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,120 Speaker 1: should listen to these episodes and and make sure you're 1075 00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:27,360 Speaker 1: on top of that. Uh, let's see what else? Oh? Yeah. 1076 00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:31,000 Speaker 1: On on the social media, there's the Facebook group the 1077 00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:32,840 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind discussion module. That's a good 1078 00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:35,600 Speaker 1: place to chime in and chat with other listeners. I'm 1079 00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:37,600 Speaker 1: sure some folks are going to chime in about Strange 1080 00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:40,400 Speaker 1: Brew too, and to let everyone know exactly what that 1081 00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:42,920 Speaker 1: film is about and what extent it may or may 1082 00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:47,360 Speaker 1: not tie into our topics today. Rick moranis in it. Yeah, 1083 00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:49,760 Speaker 1: it was written Rick moranis. And uh, the other guy 1084 00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:53,200 Speaker 1: from was this was the Second City. Dave Thomas. Dave 1085 00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:57,480 Speaker 1: Thomas was Dave Thomas, Yes, Dave Thomas, Rick moranis and 1086 00:58:57,520 --> 00:58:59,960 Speaker 1: probably some other names as well. But those are the 1087 00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,880 Speaker 1: two leads. Uh. I just want to emphasize again if 1088 00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:05,040 Speaker 1: you haven't checked out Invention yet, check that out. If 1089 00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:07,280 Speaker 1: you haven't checked out the second oil age, you must 1090 00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:09,240 Speaker 1: do it. I think you're gonna love it. It's so 1091 00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:12,520 Speaker 1: much fun. Oh and t shirts. The Stuff to Blow 1092 00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:15,920 Speaker 1: your Mind merch store is still active, and i'd just 1093 00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:18,120 Speaker 1: mind understanding that there is a new shirt in there 1094 00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:21,120 Speaker 1: for Thanksgiving and there is also some manner of like 1095 00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:24,440 Speaker 1: there's like you know, there's always Black Friday deals and 1096 00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,680 Speaker 1: Thanksgiving deals, so just be advised this is a good 1097 00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:30,800 Speaker 1: time to get merchandise from that store if you so desire. 1098 00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:34,160 Speaker 1: Totally by it all huge thanks as always to our 1099 00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:37,960 Speaker 1: excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like 1100 00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:39,880 Speaker 1: to get in touch with us with feedback on this 1101 00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:42,560 Speaker 1: episode or any other, to suggest a topic for the future, 1102 00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:45,200 Speaker 1: or just to say hello, you can email us at 1103 00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:55,760 Speaker 1: contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff 1104 00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:57,320 Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind is a production of I Heart 1105 00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:00,000 Speaker 1: Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 1106 01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:02,440 Speaker 1: this is the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 1107 01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:04,040 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.