Speaker 1: Keaton went to school today dressed as a vampire? Why
Speaker 1: and well, you know he's a costume kid, right, Like,
Speaker 1: he's just in costume all the time. There was a
Speaker 1: short period for a few months where I thought we
Speaker 1: had gone beyond it, where he kind of just stopped
Speaker 1: asking to be in costumes and I was like, great,
Speaker 1: we've outgrown this. And then no, it just started all
Speaker 1: over again. And the other day he went dressed to
Speaker 1: school in all full deadpool with gloves, hands and everything,
Speaker 1: and when he came home he wasn't wearing it.
Speaker 2: And I said, well, what happened to your costume?
Speaker 1: And he said, my teacher said that my gloves, cleaning whale,
Speaker 1: my gloves, but the gloves are attached to the costume,
Speaker 1: so he couldn't just take the gloves off, so she
Speaker 1: made him take it off. So to this morning, when
Speaker 1: he was like, came downstairs with a vampire costume and
Speaker 1: he said, I want to wear this to school and
Speaker 1: I said, we're not allowed to wear costumes to school.
Speaker 1: Remember last week you had to take it off. And
Speaker 1: he say, vampyros don't wear gloves.
Speaker 3: So he's a Spanish And I said, okay, I mean
Speaker 3: you're right, there's no gloves and the.
Speaker 2: Vampire costume is a shirt and pants.
Speaker 1: And a cape, and so he can get himself undressed
Speaker 1: because the other problem is with the full one piece
Speaker 1: costumes for Spider Man or whatever, he can't unzip himself
Speaker 1: and then he's having to ask the teachers to help
Speaker 1: him go to the bathroom.
Speaker 2: And like, we're beyond that.
Speaker 4: Well, Spider Man ask people, that's that happens in real
Speaker 4: life too. That's a real, actual superhero problem that nobody addresses.
Speaker 5: Real life problem.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a real life superhero problem, which is like, hey,
Speaker 4: I just saved the bank, but I have to peek
Speaker 4: and somebody, I'm.
Speaker 5: Telling you he's not going to outgrow this, like because
Speaker 5: oh yeah, Indy's a costume kid. I was a costume kid.
Speaker 4: Like when, but when does it become like now you're
Speaker 4: the sixteen year old kid dressed like Batman in school?
Speaker 6: When does it become weird? Is the question? I think
Speaker 6: it's fine.
Speaker 5: Like I used to keep lists of what Halloween costumes
Speaker 5: I would want, Like throughout the year, I would make
Speaker 5: a list of and Indy does the same thing.
Speaker 2: So do and and we talk about it all year long.
Speaker 5: There was one Halloween, Indy had three separate outfits.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's Halloween math class.
Speaker 4: When you're fourteen and you just happen to be dressed
Speaker 4: like Deadpool, that's when people start to talk.
Speaker 5: I don't think it's coming from you, like the convention
Speaker 5: superhero guys.
Speaker 2: I know, I was not thinking.
Speaker 4: First of all, superheroes in school are their regular human forms.
Speaker 4: They're Peter Parker Wayne.
Speaker 6: But I noticed about.
Speaker 5: Somebody would want to dress up and be whatever, let
Speaker 5: their freak flag fly in costume in school should be
Speaker 5: like great, Okay, I would.
Speaker 6: Say there's a time and a place. I would say
Speaker 6: school wouldn't be the time.
Speaker 4: Again, Keaton an Adler's age, fine, I would say even
Speaker 4: Indie could probably.
Speaker 6: Get away with it.
Speaker 4: You're not eighth grade, ninth grade, and you're going to
Speaker 4: school dressed in a superhero costume.
Speaker 6: People are gonna talk.
Speaker 1: He an adult man, but the adult man to talk.
Speaker 6: That's maybe you do.
Speaker 5: That's what I'm saying. It's like, it's totally fine.
Speaker 6: It is fine.
Speaker 5: I wouldn't want to do it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you're gonna there's you're gonna get the rep as
Speaker 6: the kid. Oh, that's that's the superhero kid. That's gonna
Speaker 6: follow you around.
Speaker 4: Great, Okay, you are a superhero kid, what are you
Speaker 4: talking about?
Speaker 6: Do it?
Speaker 4: I never went to school dressed as a superhero.
Speaker 2: He had his cape.
Speaker 1: So he's got a cape with a big satin thing
Speaker 1: that comes up here and it goes all the way around.
Speaker 1: And so he walked into school today with the cape
Speaker 1: over his shoulders and he walked in like hunching around,
Speaker 1: and Jensen said he's a vampire. And all the teachers went, oh,
Speaker 1: just thinking he had a cape on. And Jensen said, yeah,
Speaker 1: he can turn you all into zombies and he can
Speaker 1: fly away like a bat.
Speaker 2: And then Keaton went.
Speaker 1: And like ripped open the cape and was wearing his
Speaker 1: full costu.
Speaker 6: Everyone's like, oh, well, first of all, it's great cape weather.
Speaker 6: Oh totally, that's the first thing. Secondly, vampires don't turn
Speaker 6: you into zombies.
Speaker 2: I know, vampire chang.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's not how that works. He's going to turn
Speaker 6: you into a were wolf.
Speaker 5: And that's all he's gonna know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have to do. We have to just do
Speaker 2: whatever comes to mind.
Speaker 1: Because when he's in these moods and he's then dressed
Speaker 1: as a vampire, he like he just wants to keep
Speaker 1: it going, and we all have to play along. And
Speaker 1: we're also though, like trying to like make breakfast and
Speaker 1: get him out the door for school, so we just
Speaker 1: say whatever comes to our mind. Like he'll walk up
Speaker 1: to us and like hit us on the arm and
Speaker 1: we're like, oh no, I'm a.
Speaker 6: Like we totally inaccurate.
Speaker 2: We become a servants, which it's accurate.
Speaker 4: I mean that's why they lead to the Master of
Speaker 4: the Masters, you know, Vampire, but not sounding that's a
Speaker 4: whole different thing.
Speaker 5: Sorry. This is the thing like you realize when you
Speaker 5: have a kid, is like because you think, oh, playing
Speaker 5: make believe with kids is so much fun, but the
Speaker 5: reality is there's no rules, so it gets so boring.
Speaker 6: So cool, oh I'm a cloud.
Speaker 5: Now, my unicorn now, and you're just like, wait, hold on,
Speaker 5: if it's consistency, can we roll some dice for whether
Speaker 5: you actually can do that or not? Like it's like
Speaker 5: without any boundaries, it's like the most boring thing to
Speaker 5: play as Also, I have.
Speaker 1: To work in all the normal day to day things
Speaker 1: into the playtime, so like vampire, your teeth need to
Speaker 1: be sharpened.
Speaker 2: Let me use your toothbrush to sharpen your.
Speaker 1: Teeth, because if I just like your shoes, if I
Speaker 1: say like, stop, it's enough playing. We have to go
Speaker 1: brush your teeth now, oh good luck. You just rule
Speaker 1: into the entire morning. So now it's about sharpening his teeth.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, meanwhile, it's six point forty in the
Speaker 1: morning and I've lost just tired. But listen, it's for
Speaker 1: right now. It's very cute and it's it's not yet
Speaker 1: a problem. I will see what happens when we're we're
Speaker 1: still doing this podcast when he's twelve, I'll let you know.
Speaker 6: Trust me, we'll hear about it.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Pod Meets World. I'm Danielle Fischel, I'm Right or.
Speaker 6: Strong, and I'm Wilfordell.
Speaker 1: We have called the Boy Meets World cast and Crewe
Speaker 1: Family many times on this podcast. With the everyday grind,
Speaker 1: both the good and the bad, the entertainment business can
Speaker 1: create that kind of dynamic, a group of people all
Speaker 1: striving for one common goal to make something magical or
Speaker 1: in some cases.
Speaker 2: Something that is good enough. Well.
Speaker 1: On our show, we were lucky to have actual family,
Speaker 1: whether it was background actors husband and wife Kevin and
Speaker 1: Tracy Thompson, directors and brothers Kevin Tracy and John Tracy,
Speaker 1: or Ben Savage and Fred Savage. It was no shock
Speaker 1: when we'd find out someone had a sibling, spouse, brother,
Speaker 1: or cousin working on set, and this week's guest was
Speaker 1: one half of our favorite duo. She started as a
Speaker 1: first assistant slash stage manager for the show, then moved
Speaker 1: her way up to direct her first episode of TV. Ever,
Speaker 1: our recently rewatched season six Christmas special Santa's Little Helper,
Speaker 1: and that was just the start. She'd go on to
Speaker 1: direct not only two more Boy Meets World episodes in
Speaker 1: season seven, but also still standing Fuller House eight, Simple
Speaker 1: Rules and according to Jim, to just name a few,
Speaker 1: and she'd spend time on Ellen, Veronica's Closet and two
Speaker 1: movies I most certainly have to ask her about later.
Speaker 1: She's a two time DGA Award nominee and tied for
Speaker 1: first for coolt person with the last name McCracken. This
Speaker 1: week on Pod Meets World, it's someone we've been looking
Speaker 1: forward to talking.
Speaker 2: To for quite some time. It's director Lynn McCracken.
Speaker 7: Lynn, Lynn, Oh, it's so good to see you.
Speaker 6: Yeah, my gosh, happy.
Speaker 5: I know, but we're not children. Anymore?
Speaker 1: Where are the old, middle aged best and clinging?
Speaker 8: What a life you guys have, right?
Speaker 6: Who looks the same? You like the same?
Speaker 2: No, I don't know why.
Speaker 1: It is so good to see you reuniting with people
Speaker 1: we love thirty years.
Speaker 2: After the fact of the time that we met.
Speaker 1: Is I think none of us would would argue is
Speaker 1: that it's just the best part of the podcast. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's such an absolute joy and seeing you is just
Speaker 1: right up at the top of that list.
Speaker 2: So can we talk.
Speaker 1: About how your career started off in high fashion photography?
Speaker 2: That is a new one for us. I need to
Speaker 2: know more about that.
Speaker 8: I was an assistant to a photographer. His name is
Speaker 8: Adrian Buckmaster, and we did a couple of Lorel campaigns
Speaker 8: and I learned everything about cameras from Adrian, And you know,
Speaker 8: I had love for cameras ever since I was a
Speaker 8: little kid and being behind the camera and it's so
Speaker 8: safe being behind the camera. You guys are you are
Speaker 8: the brain ones?
Speaker 7: Right?
Speaker 8: I mean you know this as being directors, it's like
Speaker 8: you get responsibilities, but it's it's really a great place
Speaker 8: to be and an Adrian and we did a whole
Speaker 8: bunch of campaigns in New York. It's when I lived
Speaker 8: in New York and I just graduated from the Neighborhood
Speaker 8: Playhouse and I was, you know, his wife at the time,
Speaker 8: his Karen Savelle, was a good friend of mine and
Speaker 8: and that's how it all happened. So it was great.
Speaker 8: It was a great exposure.
Speaker 5: Wow, did you want camera?
Speaker 6: That was a camera pun? That was a camera punt that.
Speaker 5: Did you Did you think maybe you would stay in
Speaker 5: photography or were you immediately like no, get oh yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 5: very different world in some ways, right.
Speaker 8: It is you know, it's interesting. It's it's uh, the
Speaker 8: film scene in New York. I know, if you've experienced,
Speaker 8: it's a very close and for a minute, it was
Speaker 8: very unwelcoming. So and uh, someone by the name of
Speaker 8: Michael Jacobs, who happened to be my brother's best friend, said,
Speaker 8: you know, hey, I sold a show and I need
Speaker 8: an assistant, So why do you come out to LA
Speaker 8: and I'll get your side card and and you know,
Speaker 8: and you can kind of see what it's like out here,
Speaker 8: and you know, and I was like, yeah, okay, but
Speaker 8: I was such a I was such a New York
Speaker 8: snob at that point. I was just like, okay, So,
Speaker 8: but what ended up happening was I ended up going
Speaker 8: back and forth to LA and New York for a
Speaker 8: couple of years.
Speaker 4: And but the show he brought you dinosaurs, what was
Speaker 4: the first one?
Speaker 8: My two dads and Greg again. Yeah, and and so
Speaker 8: I was, you know, this completely novice, like I do
Speaker 8: nothing about television or anything, and you know, here I
Speaker 8: am the executive producer's assistant, and I'm just like, thank
Speaker 8: God for Arlene Grayson. Arlene Grayson was my was my
Speaker 8: savior and mentor. So she came from New York too.
Speaker 2: Okay, so many people have mentioned her.
Speaker 8: She was a great soul. Yeah, really she was. Just
Speaker 8: I don't know that Michael would have the success that
Speaker 8: he did if it wasn't for Arlene, because she covered
Speaker 8: him on so many levels.
Speaker 4: So I've showed I've showed everybody this so when they
Speaker 4: come in. So when I first came to LA, I
Speaker 4: knew no nobody. I literally was here by myself. I
Speaker 4: had no idea, and Arlene was one of the first
Speaker 4: people that I met.
Speaker 6: And the first thing she did, of course, now I
Speaker 6: just dropped it.
Speaker 4: The first thing she did was write down her name
Speaker 4: and her phone number so I.
Speaker 6: Could always reach her. No. Always. It's one of the
Speaker 6: first things I look at.
Speaker 4: It's right over my computer every time I'm doing my zooms,
Speaker 4: and so I look at Arlene's signature and just how
Speaker 4: nice she was every day when I sit down here.
Speaker 8: I have a sideboard that was hers. Really, am I dining?
Speaker 8: I don't know if you know? Yes, over there? Yeah
Speaker 8: that she was amazing, Yeah she's yeah.
Speaker 1: So anyway, so going back, even before photography, did you
Speaker 1: and Jeff grow up making movies together doing like did you?
Speaker 2: Were you guys? Were you guys doing it from the
Speaker 2: time you were kids?
Speaker 8: No, there was a there's a slight age gap between us. Okay,
Speaker 8: he's the oldest and I'm the youngest, and I think
Speaker 8: he got out of Dodge as soon as he could,
Speaker 8: and when he did, I was still in single digits.
Speaker 2: So, but how far apart are you? Guys?
Speaker 8: I don't think he wants me to sleep. There's a
Speaker 8: couple of years. There's just a couple of years between them.
Speaker 8: But you know, he he uh is the biggest inspiration though,
Speaker 8: because he after he was in the Air Force and
Speaker 8: uh he went to New York and he's the one
Speaker 8: who said to me because I was at the University
Speaker 8: of Illinois, and he's like, if you're serious about theater,
Speaker 8: then you have to go to the playhouse, and and
Speaker 8: that's what I did. And then and that was the
Speaker 8: beginning of my journey with Sandy Meisner.
Speaker 4: So, now, did you always want to be behind the
Speaker 4: camera or was there did you want to be an actor?
Speaker 6: At one point?
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 8: In college, I was a playwright directing major, and so
Speaker 8: a lot of directors actually came out of the playhouse
Speaker 8: as well. And one of my favorites at the time
Speaker 8: was Mark Rightell and he uh and he came out
Speaker 8: of the playhouse with Diane Keaton and all those in
Speaker 8: that crowd, and I think on Golden Pond was had
Speaker 8: just come out, and so I was just a big
Speaker 8: fan of his and so but working with I think
Speaker 8: one of the last few years with Sandy Meisner, but
Speaker 8: really an amazing experience. And so I thought, well, yeah,
Speaker 8: I'll be an actor, okay, whatever. And I could not
Speaker 8: do the business side. I don't know how you guys
Speaker 8: do it. The rejection was just I could I don't
Speaker 8: have the I didn't have the skin for it. And
Speaker 8: and then of course Adrian was helping me with photography,
Speaker 8: and so I was like, you know, I really want
Speaker 8: to be a filmmaker. And that's when Michael said, oh,
Speaker 8: come on, Ela and see what.
Speaker 1: So so you move out to LA You're working on
Speaker 1: my two Dads, but you're just Michael's assistant. You're assistant
Speaker 1: to the executive. Are you paying attention to every aspect
Speaker 1: of the industry? Are you thinking about, like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: when and where do you decide how you what you
Speaker 1: want to do?
Speaker 2: Did you know right away you eventually wanted to be
Speaker 2: a director?
Speaker 8: Well I knew that, but I hit a point where
Speaker 8: the executives at Columbia Television were, uh, took me, you know,
Speaker 8: took a meeting with me, and they were just like,
Speaker 8: you know, here you have two roads. You can come
Speaker 8: up and be an executive with us, or you can go,
Speaker 8: you know, stay in production. And I was like, I
Speaker 8: want to be down there on the stage. I want
Speaker 8: to be you know, because as you guys have mentioned
Speaker 8: many times, Show Knight was it's it's it's it's a drug,
Speaker 8: it is, and and Elvin Ivory was the first stage
Speaker 8: manager and he was kind enough to take me under
Speaker 8: his wing, and so I transitioned to being his assistant,
Speaker 8: and then we did Fresh Prince of bel Air, and
Speaker 8: we went on to do all sorts of other shows together,
Speaker 8: and then a little show called Boy Meets and Me Back?
Speaker 5: Was that your first time being a stage manager?
Speaker 4: Then?
Speaker 5: Was on our show?
Speaker 8: No, no, no no. I've been on a few shows
Speaker 8: with Elvin and and and he was a great guy.
Speaker 8: He was a former ABA basketball player who cool like
Speaker 8: seven feet tall. He was like, you know, he was
Speaker 8: like six something, and he was the kindest man ever.
Speaker 8: And and we did a couple of shows, and then
Speaker 8: I did, uh, I followed a director, Matthew Diamond on
Speaker 8: a few shows. We worked with Patty LaBelle on Out
Speaker 8: All Night and that's where I brought Steven and Steve.
Speaker 8: Steve was my second stage manager and and then and
Speaker 8: then we came over to I think that's the order.
Speaker 8: I could be missing a show in there, but you know,
Speaker 8: and then where Steve and I came over to Boy
Speaker 8: Meets World.
Speaker 4: Where does Boy Meets World rank for sets for you
Speaker 4: that you worked on?
Speaker 1: MMMM?
Speaker 6: And you can be honest, be honest, be honest.
Speaker 8: That has to be a really complicated answer, because, uh,
Speaker 8: there are so many great moments in my career that
Speaker 8: I've been able to experience and uh, life changing moments.
Speaker 8: And with Boy Meets World, you know, Michael's complicated. You
Speaker 8: guys have have discussed that ad nauseum and I don't
Speaker 8: go into that. And our relationship was incredibly complicated and
Speaker 8: so and it got more so. And but with David Trainor,
Speaker 8: he turned out to be my mentor mentor, and and
Speaker 8: I was really sad to leave Boy Meets World, but
Speaker 8: I was really happy to continue and be an associate
Speaker 8: director which was in the booth camera coordinator with him
Speaker 8: on the next show with Betty White and Marie Osmond.
Speaker 8: So you know I traveled with David at that point.
Speaker 2: That's where you left. That's where you went when you
Speaker 2: left us, you went with David.
Speaker 8: I went with David because I got elevated to the
Speaker 8: next life.
Speaker 6: Did you do that seventy show?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 6: Okay?
Speaker 8: I did ellen after that?
Speaker 6: Gotcha?
Speaker 8: And that was one of the life Chaine moments for me,
Speaker 8: was working on the coming out episode on that one.
Speaker 5: So did you meet David Trainer on Boy Meets World
Speaker 5: set when he came to direct?
Speaker 8: Okay, is that where we met? I think that is
Speaker 8: where we met, Yeah, because he had just come from
Speaker 8: designing women and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: What was it about David that that like he?
Speaker 1: I mean, we remembered him, you know, also fondly, and
Speaker 1: yet we also remember he was he had a very
Speaker 1: distinct style.
Speaker 2: What was it for you that you think? Like, what
Speaker 2: is it about David that just drew you to him?
Speaker 2: What made him your mentor?
Speaker 8: He was a incredibly generous with his knowledge, and he
Speaker 8: taught me so many different things about how to navigate
Speaker 8: a set, you know, coming from the theater in New
Speaker 8: York as well, so we had a lot in common.
Speaker 8: One of the things he told me, and I don't
Speaker 8: know that he would remember this today, but he said,
Speaker 8: never become friends with the actors. You need them to
Speaker 8: respect you. And I'm like, really, okay. I was like,
Speaker 8: That's not how I operated so far in my life,
Speaker 8: you know. But but it made sense to me because
Speaker 8: he was, you know, he had to be the beyond
Speaker 8: voice of everything, and so he had to garner all
Speaker 8: that respect. And it was just really interesting. And you
Speaker 8: guys were so young and so you.
Speaker 2: Know, adorable, we were impossible not to be friend.
Speaker 8: Well, it really brought out a maternal instinct in me,
Speaker 8: you know, and trying to take care of you guys
Speaker 8: and protect you as much as I could from production
Speaker 8: because as you know, child actors don't necessarily turn out
Speaker 8: as well as you guys. So and I had I
Speaker 8: can I can say that's because of your parents. I
Speaker 8: have to say your parents were so involved on set
Speaker 8: and and say hello to all of them please of course,
Speaker 8: I just they're they're just yummy. And and you know,
Speaker 8: Ben's folks were really kind of led the charge as
Speaker 8: far as how to stick up for your advocate for
Speaker 8: you guys. But you know, Lynn, and I mean everybody
Speaker 8: was just so great and easy to work with and Arleene.
Speaker 8: Between Arlene myself and and uh, your folks, I thought
Speaker 8: we created a pretty good bubble around you. And then
Speaker 8: Karen stepped in was an executive first, and then she
Speaker 8: came on board as a producer and she filled uh
Speaker 8: and then some Arlene shoes.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we we've mentioned many times that they're you
Speaker 1: know there. We've heard stories and things that were going
Speaker 1: on that we just go, oh, we didn't know any
Speaker 1: of that was happening. We oh, yeah, no, we were
Speaker 1: so well insulated. And we now have realized that you
Speaker 1: guys were taking all the shrapnel, which is how we
Speaker 1: were able to be so well insulated.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Well, but I think all of us think about that
Speaker 5: first season. It's just such a warm and fuzzy tie,
Speaker 5: you know, and it's been it's been interesting to hear
Speaker 5: that it wasn't always that way for everybody, but for us.
Speaker 5: I think that first season especially, I mean, you guys
Speaker 5: really set the stage.
Speaker 8: You know, it was imperative. It was imperative too because
Speaker 8: so much was going on behind the scenes and you know,
Speaker 8: I know, too many bodies buried.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, we just we It's you know, you're
Speaker 4: finding out thirty years later that maybe your parents didn't
Speaker 4: have the most magical marriage ever, and you kind of
Speaker 4: as an adult going like, wait, what a storybook?
Speaker 6: It was a sor book, and kind of like, no,
Speaker 6: it really was. It was a job.
Speaker 8: It was a job we wanted for me. The important
Speaker 8: thing was trying to maintain childhood for you guys, and
Speaker 8: and Arlene too, and and everybody else. I mean the
Speaker 8: crew was exceptional from from Richard Brown this the DP
Speaker 8: to two and then then it was uh, David Props.
Speaker 8: I mean, everybody really really great and and Steve did
Speaker 8: such a great job with you guys, and and then
Speaker 8: consequently it's become such a wonderful director.
Speaker 2: Did you know April Kelly?
Speaker 8: I met April early on. Yeah, she wasn't around much
Speaker 8: so and I know there was a lot of uh
Speaker 8: contention between Michael and April, so that was you kind
Speaker 8: of had a pick kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Do you remember the first time you met all of us?
Speaker 8: I do, I do? That was like the most you know,
Speaker 8: we were all so nervous, and you guys came in
Speaker 8: and you were a little bit later. Yeah, And I
Speaker 8: remember that so clearly, the day that you came on board.
Speaker 8: And but with the with the rest of you guys,
Speaker 8: you were all so just so adoorable. We were all
Speaker 8: just like so nervous and how to get the rhythm
Speaker 8: going and how to get you know, everything, you know,
Speaker 8: and you guys were all so nervous, and and Ben
Speaker 8: was just like a deer in the headlights because you know,
Speaker 8: he was trying to fill shoes of legacy for himself,
Speaker 8: and you know, and and that was just all. I
Speaker 8: don't have any really specificific.
Speaker 5: I mean, looking back at the episodes now, man, I mean,
Speaker 5: was in every everything and had pages and pages just
Speaker 5: he's carrying the whole scene and kid never got a break.
Speaker 5: I mean our experiences, especially that first season, we would
Speaker 5: have like a scene here and there, we'd come in
Speaker 5: and out, but he's carrying the whole show. So much
Speaker 5: work it must have been just mind boggling.
Speaker 8: Yeah, and scheduling that and all that kind of stuff
Speaker 8: was really interesting. And you know, the forboseness of Michael
Speaker 8: and his note sessions was legendary, legendary and challenging.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I've thought about that so many times.
Speaker 1: How did you guys allow for that much time in
Speaker 1: the day to be like, well, we've got to rehearse
Speaker 1: all day, we have to do a run through it
Speaker 1: this time, and then we still need the kids to
Speaker 1: be on the clock for a minimum of an hour
Speaker 1: to two hours two Yeah, for notes after.
Speaker 8: Well, we knew that the T shirt and they would
Speaker 8: pull you guys, I mean we knew become the note
Speaker 8: sessions and and you know, and Michael would try to
Speaker 8: give the notes to the kids first, and God bless
Speaker 8: Bill and and and yeah, just like he knew he
Speaker 8: had to wait until the end. It was, you know,
Speaker 8: really hard, and those note sessions were a bit abusive.
Speaker 8: I think.
Speaker 6: Was that? Now?
Speaker 4: Curiously, was that par for the course for for a
Speaker 4: Michael Jacob show. I mean, all the shows that you
Speaker 4: were on with him, they were all note sessions that
Speaker 4: lasted that long.
Speaker 6: This we weren't special, Okay, I wasn't us Okay, gotcha? Okay?
Speaker 6: Fair enough.
Speaker 1: Did you think from season one when you saw boy
Speaker 1: Meet's World, did you think the show is going to
Speaker 1: be successful?
Speaker 8: Yes?
Speaker 5: Wow, so you're the.
Speaker 6: One who thought it.
Speaker 8: Yeah, No, we we knew. I mean, of course there
Speaker 8: were no guarantees and so we all had to wait
Speaker 8: for that pickup order and stuff like that. But but
Speaker 8: you guys were were solid and so in the I think,
Speaker 8: wasn't we were the tgi F lineup on?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was.
Speaker 8: It was a tough spot to fill, but you know,
Speaker 8: Michael's track record was good and yeah, and that kind
Speaker 8: of stuff.
Speaker 1: You said, you remember you remember well when I joined
Speaker 1: the show. What is your memory of when the character
Speaker 1: of Tapanga was created? And and then I ended up
Speaker 1: in the part.
Speaker 8: Well, the day that we recast was I think there's
Speaker 8: some misinformation out there in that. I think I read
Speaker 8: somewhere that the actress that was was replaced, said that
Speaker 8: David said she wasn't pretty enough. Right, Yes, it's not true.
Speaker 8: That is not uh, that is that that's not the
Speaker 8: that's not the case. Not to say that she wasn't talented.
Speaker 8: It just she wasn't right for where the part needed
Speaker 8: to go. And Michael, really, I think David was concerned
Speaker 8: and so and he was concerned because it's that not
Speaker 8: because of looks.
Speaker 1: And she heard that, to be fair, she heard that
Speaker 1: from her agent. That her agent is the one who
Speaker 1: told her that the director had said that. Now this
Speaker 1: is you know, a telephone and to have been you know,
Speaker 1: a child and to have a rep pass that along
Speaker 1: is just Yes.
Speaker 8: It's horrendous to have that information in your head. And
Speaker 8: I just hope she knows that. But it's way too
Speaker 8: late now, it's.
Speaker 1: Never you know what I think to change change the narrative,
Speaker 1: you tell yourself.
Speaker 6: Yeah, because we.
Speaker 4: Also we said that too, where even at the time
Speaker 4: we talked to Bonnie, it was just it was out
Speaker 4: of character for David. David would never have walked up
Speaker 4: to her and or any of that stuff. It just
Speaker 4: that just wasn't David. So yeah, we we we we
Speaker 4: also knew that there was Again, it's just hearing what
Speaker 4: somebody said from somebody else, from somebody else on the phone.
Speaker 6: Thirty years later, it was it was.
Speaker 8: You know, because I was right there next to David
Speaker 8: the whole day, the whole time, and and it was
Speaker 8: pretty much just chemistry. It just wasn't it wasn't clicking.
Speaker 8: And and when I think Sally was it, Sally Steiner
Speaker 8: was that Yeah, yep, she brought you in and it
Speaker 8: was like the clouds parted and everything was like, oh,
Speaker 8: to hang up, that's the role, that's and that's you know,
Speaker 8: and and it was right. And so it was the
Speaker 8: right move that David you know, uh, and Michael did
Speaker 8: and and and you know, and here we are thirty
Speaker 8: years later about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Do you also remember Earthquake week.
Speaker 2: Nineteen ninety four?
Speaker 8: You know, I mean I remember I remember getting a
Speaker 8: call from Mike or calling the production offic thing, yeah,
Speaker 8: we're gonna go, And I'm.
Speaker 2: Like, what, No, we're not.
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, I said, my apartment building just shut
Speaker 8: you know, yeah, pieces, I'm off the foundation.
Speaker 2: What do you mean we're going in?
Speaker 6: Yep? And it was right.
Speaker 4: It was the Fugitive episode wasn't it that that week
Speaker 4: and so Ryder had this big thing and they put
Speaker 4: us in the giant like huge cavernous stage where laughs
Speaker 4: go to die. And yeah, we're trying to do a
Speaker 4: table read while there's after shocks, and we we start
Speaker 4: beforehand with a I think it was our lean something
Speaker 4: you did. You give us a speech about if if
Speaker 4: there's another after shock, everybody's got to run under here
Speaker 4: you gotta say and action.
Speaker 9: Okay, let's be funny, so funny, go to the walls.
Speaker 1: I know it's funny because you think of now the
Speaker 1: safety meetings that you have on sets, and you think
Speaker 1: we all are kind of like, all right, thanks, if
Speaker 1: there's anything wrong, we'll run out.
Speaker 2: Okay, we got that day. You're like, what do we do?
Speaker 6: What do we do?
Speaker 2: And tell me where and who do I okay, great,
Speaker 2: good to know safety.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you start remembering what the flight attendant said during
Speaker 4: severe turbulence. You're like, okay, wait, what my seatbelt's done? Okay,
Speaker 4: exits in front and back. Yeah, it was the same
Speaker 4: kind of thing.
Speaker 8: The DGA makes. You have to say them, and you
Speaker 8: know everyone's not listening, and it's like, you.
Speaker 1: Know, you're like sorry, to be the buzzkill, but I
Speaker 1: will be the person to save your life if.
Speaker 2: Any there happened.
Speaker 8: You remember when the extra in the dance scene we
Speaker 8: were working, really aren't she collapsed?
Speaker 6: No, which dancing was.
Speaker 8: It was a big dance and she was she she
Speaker 8: just collapsed and Steve like radios me, and I'm like
Speaker 8: and I run back behind the set and and all
Speaker 8: the extras are I mean with a big a lot
Speaker 8: of kids, and and I'm like sitting there going okay.
Speaker 8: And we had to get paramedics and she had to
Speaker 8: go to the hospital.
Speaker 5: You remember it was a kid.
Speaker 8: It was a kid. Yeah, collapse. She was dehydrated and
Speaker 8: she thank she was.
Speaker 1: Was it the episode when you guys are writer and
Speaker 1: Ben are doing doing the band band.
Speaker 2: On the run because it's like a school dance. Yeah,
Speaker 2: big school dance.
Speaker 6: Geez crazy.
Speaker 5: I don't remember that at all.
Speaker 4: Disasters did the kids some days on the set without
Speaker 4: someone collapsing?
Speaker 6: To erase Itz?
Speaker 1: What do you remember about the death chair? Do you
Speaker 1: remember us joking about the death chair the the third
Speaker 1: friend to Cory and Sean that in the that first
Speaker 1: season bringing in new actors and then they get replaced
Speaker 1: and we made. We started calling that third chair the
Speaker 1: death chair, and I'll never forget the time win David
Speaker 1: asked me to sit in that chair for something and
Speaker 1: I didn't.
Speaker 6: Think anything of it.
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, I'll sit there.
Speaker 6: And literally Ben was like, don't, don't not yell, and I.
Speaker 2: Was like what and he was like, doom, don't. If
Speaker 2: you want to keep you your job, do not say.
Speaker 10: That a chair.
Speaker 1: And it really became like a thing, and then I
Speaker 1: was then I was scared to sit in there.
Speaker 8: Geez, I don't remember that.
Speaker 10: Oh my gosh, it was so crazy.
Speaker 1: So at this point, now you left? Did you leave
Speaker 1: us after season two? You went with David Trainer after
Speaker 1: season two? Okay, so did Jeff? Had Jeff directed any
Speaker 1: episodes in those first two seasons? Were you and Jeff
Speaker 1: ever on set together at the same time?
Speaker 8: Yes, I'm trying to think did he do one? I
Speaker 8: know he traded he trailed.
Speaker 1: David exactly, and I think he did. I think he
Speaker 1: did one episode in season two?
Speaker 4: And so do you do you remember what I just
Speaker 4: have I have the vision of you saying he trailed David.
Speaker 6: Two of the tallest human.
Speaker 4: Beings together, they're thirteen feet tall.
Speaker 8: And there was trailing after the other and image such.
Speaker 4: A strange image as these two giant men one trailing
Speaker 4: after the other.
Speaker 1: Seriously, I remember both of them were able to like
Speaker 1: take the length of the stage in what felt like
Speaker 1: five strides.
Speaker 6: Exactly huge.
Speaker 2: Rid, So do you remember what it was like to
Speaker 2: work with your brother? Was that was awkward?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 8: Yeah, it was very awkward, but it was so great
Speaker 8: because I was so proud of him and and he's
Speaker 8: so capable and he and I forget who I think
Speaker 8: it was. Kevin Tracy was the associate director.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, we just talked about Kevin, tell
Speaker 1: me about the very first episode you directed and what
Speaker 1: you remember about that experience.
Speaker 6: Because we just watched it. We did.
Speaker 8: Santa's Little Helpert.
Speaker 6: Yes, that's so cute.
Speaker 8: It was great. I mean it was my first episode
Speaker 8: to direct, and I've been uh, I had episodes on
Speaker 8: other shows coming up, and Michael wanted to make sure
Speaker 8: that Boy Mets World was my first episode. And I
Speaker 8: couldn't have been happier because it was like coming home. Yeah,
Speaker 8: Arlene had already past, so Karen was at the helm
Speaker 8: and and that was and Russell and that was just
Speaker 8: really great. And Michael Shay was there, and and you know,
Speaker 8: it was just a really great, great group DDE, Michael, Steve,
Speaker 8: everybody was. It was just really great. And and oh
Speaker 8: my god, was I so nervous and and I just
Speaker 8: you know, going through the week was was just you know,
Speaker 8: it was an interesting episode. I mean it was a
Speaker 8: very emotional episode, you know, with writer with you, with
Speaker 8: with Trina.
Speaker 9: And and then Tommy and got alogt.
Speaker 8: I was like, I got a really emotional episode. That's
Speaker 8: I couldn't remember. When I watched it a couple of
Speaker 8: days ago, I was like, oh.
Speaker 4: My god, yeah, all right, all we were also to
Speaker 4: the time, I mean season six now they're throwing up
Speaker 4: new sets all the time.
Speaker 6: So we're in sets we've never been in before. There's
Speaker 6: new extras, there's kids. I mean, you had a lot
Speaker 6: to do in that episode.
Speaker 8: Yeah, And you know, and Matthew was so funny. He
Speaker 8: was the Elf. I mean he was so unhappy elf custom.
Speaker 1: I remember him being so miserable and that, Yeah, he
Speaker 1: was like pissed.
Speaker 4: Yeah he got him Gucci ears.
Speaker 6: I don't see what.
Speaker 5: We talked about with matt and a lot, Like I've
Speaker 5: talked to him a lot but he really really cared
Speaker 5: about his clothing back now he doesn't at all like
Speaker 5: he is now is he's a T shirt and jean
Speaker 5: guy completely now, But back then he was like really
Speaker 5: into how you know, presenting this. We used to tease
Speaker 5: him about it all the time back then. But yeah,
Speaker 5: so that's funny that he actually really hated me. Oh,
Speaker 5: I totally believe it.
Speaker 8: So you know, of course, Maitland and her Santa Santata
Speaker 8: fantasy costume can't be.
Speaker 6: Can't just be a Santa Claus. You gotta be a
Speaker 6: sexy Santa Claus.
Speaker 8: But the thing that stuck out to me is like
Speaker 8: I got a little PTSD because that first scene where
Speaker 8: Ben is talking to you, Danielle, and he's talking exactly
Speaker 8: like Michael, and I remember in the note session Michael
Speaker 8: giving him line readings on how to do that Meg
Speaker 8: and I was just like I remember.
Speaker 1: Yes, especially season six and season seven, it is he
Speaker 1: just surrendered.
Speaker 8: He surrendered, totally dead.
Speaker 1: He was just like, you know what I am, I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to be Michael Jacobs.
Speaker 2: I'm just that's it. I'm going for it.
Speaker 6: I'm doing it.
Speaker 4: Yep. And actually the thing is it works for Corey
Speaker 4: it does unfortunately, I mean, it works and that is
Speaker 4: great at it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but it is.
Speaker 4: I mean there's times we're watching where it's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: that's just that's a straight up Michael line just coming
Speaker 4: out of Ben's mouth.
Speaker 6: That's just Michael Wright.
Speaker 8: You had such a hard, hard arc to to in
Speaker 8: that episode. I mean it was it was really delicate
Speaker 8: in a heartbreaking when you tell her you know, no,
Speaker 8: not ready in there. I was like, oh, pull on
Speaker 8: my heart a little bit at the end there. It
Speaker 8: was so well done.
Speaker 2: Do you remember one of the things that came up
Speaker 2: for me in the episode was like all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: you know, we kept saying like, okay, let's not think
Speaker 2: too much about reality, let's just go it was a
Speaker 2: Christmas it's a Christmas story, let's embrace it.
Speaker 5: Whatever.
Speaker 1: But it did strike me as interesting. Why do you
Speaker 1: remember this being a topic of discussion.
Speaker 2: Why do Sean and Angela leave the house.
Speaker 1: Go it apparently in a car ride or travel, don't
Speaker 1: talk about their relationship at all on the way, wait
Speaker 1: till they arrive at the school to talk about it,
Speaker 1: and then when they leave they go back to the house.
Speaker 2: Do you remember there?
Speaker 1: Do you remember why it needed to be in the
Speaker 1: student union, that they needed to have this conversation.
Speaker 8: Because that was the set that they wanted to set. Okay,
Speaker 8: just one of those things where it was like, didn't
Speaker 8: make any sense at.
Speaker 1: All, and it's just like, you know what, we don't care,
Speaker 1: people aren't going to care.
Speaker 2: Let's just have it here.
Speaker 5: I'll take the letters because we probably didn't have the backyard.
Speaker 5: It would have made perfect sense for us to just
Speaker 5: walk out of the backyard, leave the house, go have
Speaker 5: but we didn't have that set anymore, and so they
Speaker 5: were just like, oh, let's just use the student.
Speaker 8: I think Phoenie's house was gone not in that episode.
Speaker 4: So can I ask, as somebody who's the only person
Speaker 4: on the Zoom who is not a director, what is
Speaker 4: the most difficult part of transitioning from being a stage
Speaker 4: manager to actually directing an episode.
Speaker 8: I think the hardest thing is having the executives see
Speaker 8: you as a director mm hmm, and seeing you be creative,
Speaker 8: that you're a creative and you're not just a you know,
Speaker 8: brick and mortar kind of person. I think that's the
Speaker 8: hardest thing in that transition. Had I known that, I
Speaker 8: always thought it was the natural transition. You know, you
Speaker 8: go down to the stage, your stage management and you
Speaker 8: become a director. No, you go to stage management and
Speaker 8: then you're going to uh producing. And so it was
Speaker 8: the one left turn that I didn't anticipate, what's going
Speaker 8: to take a long time to make that transition. And
Speaker 8: then I remember on a show there's a producer Susie
Speaker 8: Greenberg who told me use your.
Speaker 2: Big voice, really use your big voice.
Speaker 8: Okay, for you to use your big voice as the
Speaker 8: director because he is an ad too.
Speaker 6: So I was like, oh right, I love that advice.
Speaker 8: So it was like, oh, yeah, I don't have to
Speaker 8: be the one who just sits in the back and
Speaker 8: listens in it and does everything. I actually get to
Speaker 8: use my voice.
Speaker 4: Susie Greenberg was she did she do Seinfeld as well?
Speaker 4: I thought, so, okay, yeah, she's doing that. The Susie
Speaker 4: is based after. Yes, there's an episode called.
Speaker 2: So when you watched the episode Santa's Little Helpers, were
Speaker 2: you able to enjoy your work?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 6: No, you said you never wanted to be an actor.
Speaker 6: She just answered, like an actor.
Speaker 8: I really knew. I go back and watch any of them,
Speaker 8: but I watched it and I was just like oh,
Speaker 8: I could have done that better. I could have, you know,
Speaker 8: And and I might have. I might have stood up
Speaker 8: a little bit more and just like, can we lay
Speaker 8: off the music a little bit more?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 8: And and it's a little heavy and and but you know,
Speaker 8: I think, you know, when I joked about having PTSD.
Speaker 8: Part of it too, is, you know, between the dress
Speaker 8: show and the air show, that note session that comes
Speaker 8: after at dinner or whatever. Michael tore me. I mean,
Speaker 8: I had a great I had a great week, great
Speaker 8: week with you guys, great month, threws. We did the
Speaker 8: dress show, we were jamming, we finished early that day.
Speaker 8: I mean, I had it blocked, I had everything. It
Speaker 8: was great. Blah blah blah. So I'm like at dinner
Speaker 8: feeling really pumped and great, and he comes and he
Speaker 8: just rips me to shreds in front of everybody.
Speaker 2: And you say about what, oh.
Speaker 8: Just you know, criticizing everything that I all my shots,
Speaker 8: all my this, all my you know, how I could
Speaker 8: do this? You know, typical Michael, you know, just you
Speaker 8: know whatever. And so I was sitting on the steps
Speaker 8: of my my trailer and just.
Speaker 2: Defeated, defeated.
Speaker 8: Who comes walking up to me but.
Speaker 6: My brother, Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 8: And he just lifted me up and he.
Speaker 9: Was like yeah, yeah, but he was just like, you know, okay,
Speaker 9: and he just brought me back to center.
Speaker 8: So you talk about the synergy between my brother and
Speaker 8: me and our careers and whatnot. He showed up at
Speaker 8: just the absolute right time and just you know.
Speaker 6: General way of doing that for all of us.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Really, yeah he really did. Yeah he would. Yeah, both
Speaker 6: of you did. Both of you did, truly. No, It's true.
Speaker 4: We talk about the how you were. You were kind
Speaker 4: of our first well I'll talk about myself. My first
Speaker 4: kind of conduit onto the set was you. I mean
Speaker 4: it was you were the one I would go to
Speaker 4: and talk to and we go to you if we
Speaker 4: had any problems, or go to you if we had
Speaker 4: any questions or go I mean, it was you were
Speaker 4: the one we would talk to. So you very much
Speaker 4: did for us what Jeff did for you that night,
Speaker 4: So that was very special to us.
Speaker 6: You both were. We talk about it quite a bit.
Speaker 1: You both have such a comforting command of every situation.
Speaker 1: There's no you know, when we talk about Michael being
Speaker 1: in charge, there's.
Speaker 2: Like that kind of commanding.
Speaker 1: Nope, there's not a there's not an inch of that
Speaker 1: in you where you're like.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm a little afraid.
Speaker 1: But clearly this person is demanding, demanding that I respect
Speaker 1: them and that I listen to them. And so I think,
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to you. But you, guys, you're
Speaker 1: you're so you're both so capable, so in charge, and
Speaker 1: yet so comforting. There is an absolute safety of knowing
Speaker 1: foreign correct, with these people in charge, and we've got it,
Speaker 1: whatever it is, we've got it.
Speaker 6: Follow you anywhere kind of people. Yeah, correct, it's awesome.
Speaker 1: Right off a cliff, right off a cliff, exactly. Another
Speaker 1: thing I wanted to ask about is early on in
Speaker 1: your career you were a second a d and a
Speaker 1: production assistant on two wildly different movies, Baps with Callie
Speaker 1: Berry and Curtis Hansen's Hand that Rocks the Cradle.
Speaker 2: Wow, this is the weirdest double feature ever. Oh did
Speaker 2: this happen?
Speaker 1: And what stories do you have from either of them?
Speaker 8: The hand of Roxic Cradle was Annie Manascalco.
Speaker 2: Yes, the makeup artist, our makeup artist.
Speaker 8: It's Rebecca, the morning's makeup artist, and she and I
Speaker 8: were friends and she I went up to visit her
Speaker 8: on set and the first ad, oh, no, they were
Speaker 8: they needed a PA. So they asked me if I
Speaker 8: would stay and be a PA, and I said yeah, sure.
Speaker 8: I didn't know what I was doing, but I was
Speaker 8: like okay. And the first the second ad, the first
Speaker 8: AD was old grizzled, first a D and he had
Speaker 8: a mental breakdown during the shooting set. So the second
Speaker 8: AD moved up to first a D and then I
Speaker 8: moved up.
Speaker 2: To Wow, from PA to second eight having never done
Speaker 2: it before.
Speaker 8: Well, I was already stage managing, so I had okay.
Speaker 4: You know when that first ad got eaten by a lion,
Speaker 4: I was then made first a D.
Speaker 8: In charge of the of the babies. They were and
Speaker 8: uh and.
Speaker 6: You were literally the hand that rocked the cradle.
Speaker 8: You brought the little babies to set and and you
Speaker 8: know I was a baby wrangler.
Speaker 6: Wow.
Speaker 8: Wow, it was great. I had such a great time
Speaker 8: on that movie. And and it's all because of Annie.
Speaker 8: So the hand the rocks the Cradle was directed by
Speaker 8: Curtis Hansen and the cinematographers Bob Elswitz. I think Curtis,
Speaker 8: they hadn't he did l a confidential just.
Speaker 6: Half after such a good movie.
Speaker 8: Uh, but there were some really great stories, I mean
Speaker 8: almost dying on the set. And I was I was
Speaker 8: one of the stunt drivers and.
Speaker 4: I what.
Speaker 5: Baby wrangler, stunt driver.
Speaker 2: Wranglers second a d stunt driver.
Speaker 6: Please were taking advantage of you. They were making to
Speaker 6: do everything.
Speaker 8: They're like, we're working in Seattle, so it was like
Speaker 8: anything goes you know, wait.
Speaker 2: So tell me the story about how you almost died.
Speaker 8: We were in downtown Seattle and we were running and
Speaker 8: gunning it with a camera inside the car, and Curtis
Speaker 8: and Bob had away of doing things without talking to
Speaker 8: the ad department a sound safe. I was in the
Speaker 8: back of the car and we had no traffic stops,
Speaker 8: no cops, no nothing, and we I mean the cars
Speaker 8: it was almost all died.
Speaker 6: That's old school film.
Speaker 1: And then so you almost get into a car crash,
Speaker 1: but you don't you make it?
Speaker 2: Are you then like that's it, We're done that. We
Speaker 2: have to use that or did you do it again?
Speaker 8: Oh?
Speaker 9: No, that was it?
Speaker 2: That was that was it? Okay, you got what you needed.
Speaker 8: And it was you know, it was great. It was
Speaker 8: great filmmaking. It was. And then Rebecca was she was
Speaker 8: so focused in her character and Ernie who played the handyman.
Speaker 8: They were all and they were It was really great.
Speaker 8: It was really fun. It was a really great first
Speaker 8: film experience because I got exposed to like everything.
Speaker 1: And Boy meets World's crossover here the dad in the
Speaker 1: hand that rocks the cradle was the man who played
Speaker 1: the first Alan Matthews.
Speaker 2: Matt McCoy.
Speaker 6: Okay, it was Matt McCoy.
Speaker 8: Who was actually good friends with Yeah, and so uh
Speaker 8: it was worked out. It was really funny. It's a
Speaker 8: small world, small world. You see my hand drop like
Speaker 8: ear rings in it, and you see my.
Speaker 6: Like I said, acting is very important.
Speaker 8: She pulls out and it was like fun. I'm driving
Speaker 8: was really fun.
Speaker 6: It's amazing stunt driving.
Speaker 4: I'm just like, all right, Lynn, you're the stunt driver.
Speaker 4: Now get behind the wheel of that semi crashing into
Speaker 4: the building.
Speaker 8: Who's your stunt person? I'll do it all right.
Speaker 1: Well, despite having a you know, a stern talking to
Speaker 1: on tape night of your first episode, everybody obviously very
Speaker 1: much like your liked your work because you came back
Speaker 1: to direct two more episodes of Boy Mean's World in
Speaker 1: season seven.
Speaker 2: Is there anything you look.
Speaker 1: Back on like Boy Meets World being your first job,
Speaker 1: was there anything you very specifically point to and say,
Speaker 1: I learned X on directing Boy Meets World.
Speaker 8: That's a good question. Yes, I learned how important it
Speaker 8: is to be prepared. I can do that before, but
Speaker 8: I really I got to see it in action, and
Speaker 8: David really taught me how to do all my camera work.
Speaker 8: I'm a camera shots and stuff in a way that
Speaker 8: it's been hard to transition to how things are done today.
Speaker 8: You're on the floor and you mark up your script
Speaker 8: in a different way now than we did then because
Speaker 8: back then we marked the scripts for the booth, for
Speaker 8: the camera coordinator to be able to have meetings with
Speaker 8: the cameras, for camera operators, and they would assign shots
Speaker 8: to everybody, and so it was all done before you
Speaker 8: hit the floor, whereas now it's all done on the
Speaker 8: right and so that transition has been was a little
Speaker 8: difficult for me to kind of figure out what my
Speaker 8: new system was going to be. It was so ingrained
Speaker 8: the other way. But uh, you know, being able to
Speaker 8: have that split focus of four screens of four cameras, yeah,
Speaker 8: something some people can do, some people can't, and single
Speaker 8: camera people coming into multi camera can't seem to do it,
Speaker 8: but multi camera people can do both. So yeah, I
Speaker 8: find that's on that too.
Speaker 1: But well, you would go on to have an incredible
Speaker 1: career in directing. You have two DGA Award nominations, and
Speaker 1: one very big job that you mentioned was first a
Speaker 1: d on Ellen, a show that got a ton of
Speaker 1: media attention when she became the first openly gay character
Speaker 1: on network TV. What was your experience of working on
Speaker 1: that show and working with Ellen?
Speaker 8: It was great.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 8: Being a gay woman myself.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 8: You know, not having to like use pronouns to talk about,
Speaker 8: which is what I had to be very careful of them.
Speaker 8: Boy meets World with you guys, I was very careful
Speaker 8: with all of that.
Speaker 2: And what do you mean, explain, explain, expand on that
Speaker 2: more with us.
Speaker 8: In that day and age and that time, you just
Speaker 8: didn't you weren't out, You weren't you know, you just
Speaker 8: don't ask, don't tell kind of thing. And I never
Speaker 8: bought anyone to rap parties or anything else like that.
Speaker 8: It was the beards as it were. But that's just
Speaker 8: the time. That was just the time, you know, And
Speaker 8: I was so closeted too. It was just kind of crazy,
Speaker 8: but on Ellen, I didn't have to be anymore, and
Speaker 8: so it was pretty great. And but working with Ellen
Speaker 8: herself was a whole different experience because she comes she
Speaker 8: came from the stand up world. Obviously, you got two
Speaker 8: takes and that's it, and you moved on and you
Speaker 8: were lucky. And it had to be something really specific
Speaker 8: to make a third take. Everybody had to come to
Speaker 8: the set frosty right and ready to go and be prepared.
Speaker 1: And.
Speaker 8: It just she was very conscious of the audience and
Speaker 8: the live audience, and that was bomitter and man, it
Speaker 8: just flew. And she was brilliant, brilliant comedian and and
Speaker 8: so I learned a lot, a lot a lot about
Speaker 8: comedy from her. One of my favorite moments is when
Speaker 8: Emma Thompson came on the show and they were just
Speaker 8: improving with each other in front of the camera, and
Speaker 8: you know, it's a thing of don't ask where you
Speaker 8: can't speak, and I'm behind the camera and I'm laughing
Speaker 8: so hard and crying because I'm laughing. So I'm like
Speaker 8: double over, about to hit the floor because it was
Speaker 8: just so funny. So that was really great. But you know,
Speaker 8: the highlight obviously was when the coming out episode. That
Speaker 8: was like a huge moment, you know, and reflective of
Speaker 8: the time too, because it was all in secret. We
Speaker 8: knew it was going to happen months ahead of time,
Speaker 8: Like it's like being in the closet. You can't really
Speaker 8: talk about it, right And and suddenly you know it's
Speaker 8: getting closer and closer, and she's getting impatient, and Michael
Speaker 8: Eisner is like saying, no, I don't think we should
Speaker 8: do this, and you know, all the politics are at
Speaker 8: play and all this kind of stuff, and you know,
Speaker 8: we had amazing musical acts and you know, big, big
Speaker 8: things happening, and you know, we had a rock and
Speaker 8: roll episode where she got so tired of not being
Speaker 8: able to come out that she says on stage with
Speaker 8: like Bonnie Rait and and David Crosby and Sheryl Crow
Speaker 8: and all that goes, I'm gay and oh my god.
Speaker 8: You never saw people move so fast as to confiscate
Speaker 8: the tapes in the film and.
Speaker 2: The oh geez, it was crazy.
Speaker 8: But it was it was really it was really something else.
Speaker 8: That moment with Laura Dern in the airport when she said,
Speaker 8: I mean it just I still get chills today.
Speaker 6: The microphone for great moment.
Speaker 8: And it's just like one of those historic moments I
Speaker 8: was so proud to be a part of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it must have really, like you said, it was
Speaker 1: such a moment of the times, but also for you,
Speaker 1: like hearing that you were so closeted that you felt
Speaker 1: you had to keep that a secret from everybody on
Speaker 1: Boy Meets World. It was it must have been, but yeah, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: but it must have felt very much like I don't know,
Speaker 1: just like it must have felt so like so special
Speaker 1: and well it's like.
Speaker 5: E merging of the personal and the professional. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 5: it's like you're creatively a part of something that's changing
Speaker 5: the culture. But it's also so reflective of what you
Speaker 5: had already gone through or were going through. That's amazing.
Speaker 8: Absolutely. And you know, we sat there in a production
Speaker 8: meeting and there's a little Fredo's Cafe scene where Katie
Speaker 8: Lang was going to be playing guitar and Melissa Edwards
Speaker 8: or whatever, and it's a coffee house and there was
Speaker 8: one in West Hollywood and Ellen looks to me and
Speaker 8: she goes, we'll fill it with your friends.
Speaker 9: Everybody in that scene to be gay, And I was like, okay, Okay,
Speaker 9: that's awesome.
Speaker 2: That is so great.
Speaker 8: It's time to have that in like a production meeting.
Speaker 4: I was just like, what, yeah, slightly different world than
Speaker 4: Boys World.
Speaker 1: Maybe yeah another another boy Meets World tie in. Lesia
Speaker 1: Hayley is a background actor in that scene.
Speaker 6: She really Oh that's awesome. I didn't know that.
Speaker 2: At the airport.
Speaker 6: That's great. Yeah, cool, cool like that.
Speaker 1: So you have gone on to have an incredible career
Speaker 1: also especially in family TV. Done The Thunderman's a show
Speaker 1: we have in common, Raven's Home, Nikky, Ricky, Dicky, and
Speaker 1: Don Fuller House.
Speaker 2: What do you love about.
Speaker 1: Working in family TV and maybe even specifically with kid actors.
Speaker 8: I think there's a kindness in the television shows. But
Speaker 8: you know, I I someone asked me this a while ago,
Speaker 8: and I said, why did you work with so many kids? Book?
Speaker 8: And I just feel like it was it was my
Speaker 8: job to protect kids. I couldn't protect myself, so I
Speaker 8: wanted to protect kids. You know. It's like really interesting
Speaker 8: and and you know, one job, he gets, another gets another,
Speaker 8: and then you get kind of pigeonholed into a certain
Speaker 8: type of genre.
Speaker 1: I think you're right with the kid with the kid
Speaker 1: aspect the protective nature of kids. I also feel very
Speaker 1: similarly when I'm on set. I mean, my first directing
Speaker 1: job was on Girl Meets World, and I continued to
Speaker 1: do a bunch of family TV, and I think the
Speaker 1: overwhelming feeling I have every time I'm on one of
Speaker 1: those sets is I am so happy to be able
Speaker 1: to create the kind of comforting family environment we had
Speaker 1: people like you creating for us in that first and
Speaker 1: second season, and there is there's such a nice feeling
Speaker 1: of knowing that, like for a lot of these kids,
Speaker 1: this is their very first job or one of their
Speaker 1: very first jobs. They're going to go on to hopefully
Speaker 1: have careers in this industry. And no matter what, they're
Speaker 1: not all going to have incredible experiences. Some of them
Speaker 1: are going to be really bad. But at the very
Speaker 1: least I know, if I'm there, it's going to be
Speaker 1: a good experience. And that's a that's a nice feeling.
Speaker 8: It is it is, and it's a it's a huge
Speaker 8: compliment because you bring what you're bringing you to this
Speaker 8: and and and as you as you know, we go
Speaker 8: from show to show to show to show, and we're
Speaker 8: always reinventing ourselves. We're always re re establishing ourselves with
Speaker 8: this new crew, this new direct this new staff, this
Speaker 8: new cap and the only constant is is is you
Speaker 8: and you can only do what you can to make
Speaker 8: it a safe environment for the actors to be able
Speaker 8: to create. And that's that's me is the whole job
Speaker 8: is to create a safe environment for the actors to
Speaker 8: do what they're trained to do. Because when the kids
Speaker 8: don't know what they're doing, they're too young to inexperience whatever.
Speaker 8: It's your job to help foster them. And I watch
Speaker 8: David do that with you guys, and that just taught
Speaker 8: me so much. And it all goes back to to
Speaker 8: you know, the basics of you know, just listen, just
Speaker 8: just you know, listen to your fellow actors, listen to me.
Speaker 8: Let me be the buffer between you and the executives
Speaker 8: who are trying to give you a thousand notes. And
Speaker 8: sometimes shows work that way, and sometimes they don't. Sometimes,
Speaker 8: you know, the writers still go into the set to
Speaker 8: talk to the actors and it gets confusing. You know that,
Speaker 8: That to me was always the hard part of directing too.
Speaker 8: On sitcoms, especially not so much single camera. Single camera,
Speaker 8: you're kind of more respected camera you know, it's your
Speaker 8: job to help keep this noise over here at the
Speaker 8: monitors and let the actors be.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: Finally, with all of the TV shows you have worked on,
Speaker 1: did you ever think Boy Meets World would be the
Speaker 1: one we are still talking about thirty years later.
Speaker 8: No, Finally, but amazing. I'm so proud of you, guys.
Speaker 8: I mean, it's really wonderful what you're doing and to give,
Speaker 8: you know, all these different people who've been associated with
Speaker 8: the show a voice and to speak their experience and
Speaker 8: to have that common denominator through it all of there's
Speaker 8: just so much love, you know, respect and aside from
Speaker 8: the you know who shall not be mentioned. But if
Speaker 8: it wasn't for him, we wouldn't be here today.
Speaker 4: You said it right, it's a complex relationship. I think
Speaker 4: it's a very complex relationship.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 8: And uh, I'm just you know, seeing you guys right now,
Speaker 8: I'm seeing you when you're little. I mean I still
Speaker 8: think you know, like I know, you're adults and you
Speaker 8: have kids, married and whatnot. Thrilled for you and your journey,
Speaker 8: Danielle has been amazing. I mean, your strength right now
Speaker 8: is tremendous and I'm so impressed by you.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much all.
Speaker 8: The good health for you in the coming journey with
Speaker 8: what you're doing you.
Speaker 1: I'm so thankfully it is it is mostly in my
Speaker 1: rear view. I'm just on a I'm on a daily
Speaker 1: medication now that I have to take for five years,
Speaker 1: and so you know, it's a matter of finding out
Speaker 1: what the side effects are, managing those when they pop up.
Speaker 1: But you know, treat active treatment is behind me. I
Speaker 1: have my first post cancer mammogram in June, so there's
Speaker 1: a little bit of, you know, anxiety wrapped up in that.
Speaker 1: Just sure you know, odds are there's not going to
Speaker 1: be anything. But I think every time there'll be another mammogram,
Speaker 1: there's always going to be some anxiety around it. But
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, truly, I don't ever want to
Speaker 1: say I'm like grateful for cancer because it just feels
Speaker 1: a little silly. But there have been some tremendous changes
Speaker 1: in me because of it that I am very grateful for.
Speaker 1: And one of them has just been recognizing that pre cancer,
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time doing very perfunctory checking
Speaker 1: off boxes and making sure I was getting all of
Speaker 1: the things done and and really not making any time
Speaker 1: for fun or just truly just enjoying life. And I'm
Speaker 1: in what I'm calling my season of Yes. I'm saying
Speaker 1: yes to everything I'm going, I'm making. I'm having lunches
Speaker 1: with everyone I've I've ever wanted to have lunch with.
Speaker 2: I'm going to dinners, I'm seeing plays.
Speaker 1: I'm like doing things that maybe I won't get to
Speaker 1: bed until like eleven or twelve, Like yeah, pre cancer,
Speaker 1: Danielle was like, Nope, you gotta be asleep by eight thirty.
Speaker 1: And so it's just it's made me realize that life
Speaker 1: is really short and you never know when it's going
Speaker 1: to be over. And so I'm just having as many
Speaker 1: incredible experiences with the people that I love as possible.
Speaker 4: Yes to everything else to self ask Danielle for money, Yeah, yes,
Speaker 4: do it?
Speaker 2: Do you never know?
Speaker 8: I stepped back a little bit to be home with
Speaker 8: raising my two boys. Yeah, and there's there's I wouldn't
Speaker 8: do it differently.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 8: Now, the I paid for it because I tried. When
Speaker 8: I was ready to come back to work, more people were.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, how old were you? How old were your
Speaker 1: boys when you when you took a step back.
Speaker 5: Mmmm.
Speaker 8: Well Chris was too, and Nick was born, so I
Speaker 8: took a step back when they were little, little little.
Speaker 8: I ended up being like the photographer for the preschool
Speaker 8: for you know, I'm in the elementary school and all
Speaker 8: I kind of I just like was like immersed in
Speaker 8: all of that. But you know, it's it's it's interesting.
Speaker 8: The balance is really really interesting. It's it's hard, right,
Speaker 8: I mean, yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 2: Writer does it do? Writer?
Speaker 1: And writer's son is also in voiceover and and is
Speaker 1: a real performative kid. Uh so, yeah, that's a nightmare.
Speaker 6: You all make it sound so wonderful.
Speaker 8: I'm sorry, we don't.
Speaker 6: Mean are you kidding?
Speaker 4: No, I I'm sorry for y'allirls.
Speaker 2: About to be a grandfather.
Speaker 6: I'm about to be a grandpa.
Speaker 4: Actually what Yeah, my stepdaughter is about to have our
Speaker 4: first grandchild, so I'm very happy.
Speaker 6: Yeah, about to be a poppy.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's gonna be so fun. I can't wait.
Speaker 6: Great, Yeah, I can't either.
Speaker 1: Well, then, truly, we cannot thank you enough for being
Speaker 1: here with us. You are, as we mentioned earlier, you
Speaker 1: are just one of those people whose names, whose faces,
Speaker 1: whose voice brings back a flood of positive memories of endorphins.
Speaker 2: Where can we see you. Can we see you face
Speaker 2: to face? Can we give you a hug where.
Speaker 8: I'm in studio city?
Speaker 6: Oh god, okay, let's go.
Speaker 5: Letch touch much time.
Speaker 2: Let's let's lunch in my season of Yes, let's lunch.
Speaker 6: Oh yes that, oh yes, lunch, yes that anytime.
Speaker 8: He'll be so jealous. Jeff has a show, his first
Speaker 8: art show. I know, is it this week weekend? Yeah?
Speaker 8: I think I got.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we got to send him something because we've been
Speaker 4: I've been wanting a piece forever and finally there's a
Speaker 4: chance of getting one.
Speaker 6: So I'm very excited.
Speaker 1: Anybody I know, I know, I know.
Speaker 2: Are they selling pieces at the show?
Speaker 4: He's starting to sell so good because I want one.
Speaker 8: I want to.
Speaker 2: Come to the show.
Speaker 8: And he's like, no, no, no, but it's your first show,
Speaker 8: and he goes, it's two hours in the gallery here
Speaker 8: in Connecticut, don't know when I haven't show in New York.
Speaker 8: That's when you come. I'm like, all right, You're.
Speaker 2: Not all right, I mean, will be there too, We'll
Speaker 2: be there.
Speaker 6: Excellent, absolutely, yes, I would love to do it.
Speaker 2: When we adore you.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for all of your contributions to
Speaker 1: Boy Meets world, and for the protective shield you placed
Speaker 1: over all of us and have continued. It's a warm, warm,
Speaker 1: fuzzy shield that I still feel to this day. And
Speaker 1: I hope to see you soon so I can wrap
Speaker 1: you in my arms with a big old hug.
Speaker 8: I would love to.
Speaker 2: Good to see you, Okay, good to see you.
Speaker 8: Thank you. Hi guys. Wow.
Speaker 5: Yes, you know, like I think about how different Boy
Speaker 5: Meets World would have been without her. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 5: mean not just in terms of the experience. I actually
Speaker 5: genuinely believe creatively it would have reflected on the show too,
Speaker 5: you know what I mean? Like, I think that us
Speaker 5: feeling comfortable, feeling safe is what allows allowed us to
Speaker 5: do the performances and allowed us to keep showing up
Speaker 5: and to care about it, and allowed our parents to
Speaker 5: feel comfortable about yes, a green day, this job and
Speaker 5: every aspect of it, and like, yeah, that it's rare.
Speaker 5: Unfortunately stage was rare, and then you know, you think
Speaker 5: about it. She left our show and brother came in, right,
Speaker 5: and it's like, so we're between the mccrackens. We are okay,
Speaker 5: and that it's like so crazy to think that, like, yes,
Speaker 5: it's actually comes from really these two people. So much
Speaker 5: of what we think of as like the positive time
Speaker 5: and Boys World came from their their actual influence and
Speaker 5: decisions that they made. And yeah, just great, amazing.
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker 1: Just hearing her voice and seeing her face that hasn't
Speaker 1: changed much and I was like, I'm twelve again. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm a little kid again. Thank you all for joining
Speaker 1: us for this episode of Pod Meets World. As always,
Speaker 1: you can follow us on Instagram pod Meets World Show.
Speaker 1: You can send us your emails Podmeets World Show at
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. And we've got merch.
Speaker 6: Okay, we're buying merch in five four three.
Speaker 2: Podmeets World Show dot com will send us out.
Speaker 6: We love you all, pod dismissed.
Speaker 4: Podmeets World is nheart podcast producing hosted by Danielle Fischel,
Speaker 4: Wilfredell and Ryder Strong. Executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman.
Speaker 4: Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor,
Speaker 4: Tara Sudbaksch, producer, Maddy Moore, engineer and Boy Meets World
Speaker 4: superfan Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton
Speaker 4: of Typhoon, and you can follow us on Instagram at
Speaker 4: Podmeats World Show, or email us at Podmets Worldshow at
Speaker 4: gmail dot com.