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Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it is Friday, March twenty eighth, and a

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Speaker 1: woman in Georgia is sitting in jail as we speak,

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Speaker 1: and she is facing charges for killing her own child

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Speaker 1: through a botched self given abortion. With that, welcome to

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Speaker 1: this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes. This is a

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Speaker 1: rare and almost first of its kind potentially case. But

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Speaker 1: that is what this woman is accused of doing, trying

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Speaker 1: to give herself terminate her own pregnancy.

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Speaker 2: Correct, and look, this goes back to a twenty nineteen

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Speaker 2: law where Georgia band most abortions once a heartbeat can

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Speaker 2: be detected. In this case, you have a thirty one

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Speaker 2: year old woman, her name is Alexia Moore, charged with

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Speaker 2: felony murder because she online she claims purchased what would

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Speaker 2: be called an abortion pill basically and tried to conduct

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Speaker 2: an abortion on her own and realize pretty quickly when

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Speaker 2: she got inextcresciating pain that it didn't work and she

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Speaker 2: had to do something.

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Speaker 1: And that's the reason we know it because you had

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Speaker 1: to go to a hoste.

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Speaker 2: She had to go to the emergency room. She needed

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Speaker 2: to get medical attention.

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Speaker 1: And so rolan And as awful as this is, and

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Speaker 1: it sounds, she went to the hospital and gave birth,

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Speaker 1: don't have that correct, And the baby only survived a

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Speaker 1: short time. But she went to the hospital and gave birth,

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Speaker 1: is what the prosecutors, the police right now are a lenin.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So this is a tough story, no matter where

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Speaker 2: you fall on the abortion debate, this is a tough story.

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Speaker 2: So according to the arrest weren't We're getting all of

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Speaker 2: our information from the court documents, but medical records are

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Speaker 2: estimating that Alexi Moore was between twenty two and twenty

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Speaker 2: four weeks pregnant. That's significant because most medical officials will

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Speaker 2: tell you twenty four weeks is the demarcation line of

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Speaker 2: viability for a fetus outside of a mother's womb. So

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Speaker 2: she was They say she was within the threshold a viability,

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Speaker 2: which is even more significant. She was way beyond the

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Speaker 2: six weeks is the point that lawmakers are making, or

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Speaker 2: at least that police were making when coming up with

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Speaker 2: this felony murder charge.

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Speaker 1: So there so two things there robes One, Yes, the

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Speaker 1: law says it can't be administered after six weeks, which

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Speaker 1: I understand most women don't even realize they're pregnant after

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Speaker 1: six weeks a lot of times. Okay, the law is restrictive.

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Speaker 1: But the other thing Robes that happened to hear with

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Speaker 1: her is that the medicine she took is specifically stated

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Speaker 1: it's only supposed to be taken up to a certain point,

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Speaker 1: a point that she, according to the law enforcement, was

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Speaker 1: way beyond.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 2: So the name of the drug, and I hope I

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Speaker 2: say it right, meso prostal meso prostyal is the best

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Speaker 2: way I could maybe describe it. But that is a

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Speaker 2: very common abortion pill. But yes, as you point out,

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Speaker 2: it's used and it's FDA approved to induce abortion during

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Speaker 2: the first ten weeks of pregnancy. And yes, she seemed

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Speaker 2: to be more than double that time along.

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Speaker 1: And she took it. They say she also tried to

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Speaker 1: take some pain oxycoation. Now, is your understanding she was

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Speaker 1: taking that for herself or is that a part of the.

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Speaker 2: Abort Okay, So she according to the court record, she

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Speaker 2: actually told police that she got the abortion pills online

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Speaker 2: and then got the opioid from a relative who had

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Speaker 2: an oxycodone prescription. So, yes, she was in pain. She

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Speaker 2: was experiencing extreme abdominal cramping because look, she tried to

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Speaker 2: take a medicine that wasn't applicable to her medical condition

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Speaker 2: in the sense that she was much further along, so

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Speaker 2: this pill was not And oftentimes this pill is taken

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Speaker 2: in conjunction with another pill, so it's usually a cocktail

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Speaker 2: of pills.

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Speaker 3: And look, these are.

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Speaker 2: Things that should be administered by a physician once you've

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Speaker 2: been seen by this physician and they examine you and

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Speaker 2: determined this would be the best course of action. So

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Speaker 2: obviously she is doing this online, doing this in a

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Speaker 2: state that doesn't allow this to occur. So there were

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Speaker 2: a lot of reasons why she ended up in the hospital.

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Speaker 2: And yes, according to according to the court records, the

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Speaker 2: fetus survived or the baby survived for an hour after

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Speaker 2: she gave birth to it was a little girl.

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Speaker 1: It was a baby girl at this point, right, that's

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Speaker 1: a good way to I mean, Robes, you said it.

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Speaker 1: We're not talking about a fetus, We're talking about a baby,

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Speaker 1: and we're talking about now an issue. This is not

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Speaker 1: this is no longer a case. And there are some

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Speaker 1: folks out there who absolutely think these laws are atrocious.

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Speaker 1: But Robes, you get to that point, you are talking

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Speaker 1: about they argue a human being, you're talking about a

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Speaker 1: human being who is now whose life has been terminated intentionally.

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Speaker 1: This even goes beyond right, I know, there's debate about

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Speaker 1: when heartbeats and when life actually begins. Yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: a this is an awful one day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's it's tough because and look, this is

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Speaker 2: a big deal because if the prosecutors decide to go

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Speaker 2: forward with this case, this would be the first case

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Speaker 2: of a woman being prosecuted for murder for terminating a

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Speaker 2: pregnancy in this state of Georgia. Now, other states have

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Speaker 2: charged women who've had abortions with murder or even attempted murder,

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Speaker 2: but few, if any, of those prosecutions have advanced outside

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Speaker 2: of the initial charges being brought. So a lot of

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Speaker 2: folks are looking at this case because, yes, as you

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Speaker 2: pointed out, Alexia Moore right now as we are recording

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Speaker 2: this is sitting in prison. She has been in prison

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Speaker 2: since the beginning of this month. She has a hearing

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Speaker 2: scheduled for Monday. But this is something that a lot

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Speaker 2: of folks are looking to see what is.

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Speaker 3: Going to happen going forward.

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Speaker 2: You know, you've got the twenty nineteen law on the

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Speaker 2: books in the state of Georgia.

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Speaker 3: Of course, in twenty twenty two, we know that Roe v.

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Speaker 2: Wade was overturned, so that's all been established, but there

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Speaker 2: hasn't really been a follow through in terms of seeing

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Speaker 2: police and then prosecutors pursue cases against women who still

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Speaker 2: attempt or are successful at having abortions.

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Speaker 1: I can remember the organization that did the count, and

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Speaker 1: you might have it on your sheet there in front

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Speaker 1: of you. But we have seen in the past couple

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Speaker 1: of years and the hundreds women have been all over

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Speaker 1: the country charge I believe it was around two hundred.

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Speaker 2: Two hundred and ten women at least yeah have been

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Speaker 2: charged with crimes related to their pregnancies, is how they

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Speaker 2: put it. And they say mostly with drug related charges.

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Speaker 2: But that you know, we've seen hundreds of women, but

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Speaker 2: nothing at this level where you actually are now facing

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Speaker 2: a felony murder charge for this woman. And look, there

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Speaker 2: are some details coming out about what happened in that hospital.

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Speaker 2: She said that she told the nurses, I know my

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Speaker 2: infant is suffering because I am the one who did

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Speaker 2: the abortion.

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Speaker 3: I want her to die.

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Speaker 2: That is a direct quote from the court records that

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Speaker 2: that is what Alexia Moore told the nursing staff when

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Speaker 2: she got to the hospital.

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Speaker 1: You're wrong, there's I have so many questions. It just

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Speaker 1: I mean, she knew she was pregnant, When does she

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Speaker 1: make the decision? Why does she decide to do it

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Speaker 1: this late? That something changed even in her life. She

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Speaker 1: thought the circumstances were going to be one thing, and

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Speaker 1: it turns out she wasn't going to have the support

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Speaker 1: or the job or something. Don't know what happened the rodes.

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at the it it was hard to keep up.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to see what her options were. Where do

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Speaker 1: you go? All the states kind that are surrounding her

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Speaker 1: either have bands or you can't get one after six weeks.

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Speaker 1: I don't know those robes. There aren't a lot of

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Speaker 1: places where you look at twenty that is not the robes.

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Speaker 1: I mean, now it's getting a little trickier in this conversation.

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Speaker 2: I have chills just thinking about it, because, yes, the

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Speaker 2: abortion debate, a lot of folks have very strong positions,

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Speaker 2: either for or against, But there are a lot of

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Speaker 2: people who are in the middle ground, saying, well, you know,

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Speaker 2: if it was the case of incest or rape, you know,

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Speaker 2: then there should be more options threat to a mother's life.

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Speaker 2: Almost everyone, there are a few outliers agree that that

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Speaker 2: would be an exception, that almost everybody would be for

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Speaker 2: choosing the mother's life versus the fetus's life. But then

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Speaker 2: you've got this area where even beyond a heartbeat, you've

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Speaker 2: got viability. And so I remember when I was pregnant,

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Speaker 2: it was this threshold to get to. If I could

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Speaker 2: get to twenty four weeks, I could kind of breathe

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Speaker 2: a sigh of relief. Not that you have a guaranteed

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Speaker 2: outcome that your child would survive anything, but when you're pregnant,

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Speaker 2: you're always worried about making sure you get past twenty

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Speaker 2: four weeks because that is when an infant can survive

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Speaker 2: in most circumstances outside of the mother's womb. So if

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Speaker 2: this thirty one year old, her name's Alexia Moore again,

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Speaker 2: if she was at twenty four weeks, that's tough, and

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Speaker 2: she took abortion pills a that is it's just hard

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Speaker 2: to imagine. It's hard to imagine what was going on

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Speaker 2: in her body, what was happening to that fetus. And

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Speaker 2: that's why this case has resulted with the charges it's

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Speaker 2: resulted in did they.

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Speaker 1: Get more of a range. We're saying, here was it

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Speaker 1: they did they estimate do they have more pysiicals?

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Speaker 2: They had to estimate between twenty two and twenty four weeks.

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Speaker 2: That was the range they gave it a too. And look,

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Speaker 2: even when you're pregnant, they always give you a range.

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Speaker 2: They're not always exactly sure how far along you are.

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Speaker 2: But that's pretty specific, and that is right on the

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Speaker 2: line of where very a medical argument could be made

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Speaker 2: that that fetus had a chance at surviving outside of

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Speaker 2: the mother's womb. And look, she's not only being charged

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Speaker 2: with felony murder, she's also facing drug charges because of

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Speaker 2: the oxy codone that she had in her system as well.

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Speaker 2: And upon the toxicology reports from the baby girl, they

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Speaker 2: did detect oxy codone in her blood, So that is

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Speaker 2: also part of the charges or among the charges that

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Speaker 2: this woman is facing right now. And this was also

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Speaker 2: just interesting. This is what they put in the court documents.

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Speaker 2: The fetus was quote a human being who was born

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Speaker 2: alive and survived for one hour. Under Georgia law, the

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Speaker 2: victim became a person at the moment of birth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes take me out of any debate about

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Speaker 1: abortion rights in this country. That just makes sense to

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Speaker 1: most people. But is that not common sense? A child

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Speaker 1: was born, that child was breathing, Yes, that child was alive,

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Speaker 1: that child had a heartbeat, and that child died because

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Speaker 1: of the behavior of the mother. I don't know, we'll see,

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Speaker 1: I don't we don't have we don't know for sure.

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Speaker 1: She has been arrested and charged by police in that

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Speaker 1: local municipality, But state officials are going to have to

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Speaker 1: make a call on this. So will they go through

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Speaker 1: with this?

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Speaker 2: Yes, well, look on Monday, she has a hearing and

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Speaker 2: the DA will then have to decide whether or not

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Speaker 2: he wants to prosecute. But in Georgia, according to all

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Speaker 2: the reports I've seen, he's going to need to first

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Speaker 2: get an indictment from a grand jury, which I think

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Speaker 2: makes a lot of sense. So you've got a jury

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Speaker 2: of your peers listening to all the evidence, reviewing state law,

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Speaker 2: and deciding whether or not to go forward with this

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Speaker 2: felony murder charge along with some of the other charges.

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Speaker 2: So that is likely going to the process. That is

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Speaker 2: likely going to be the process going forward. But when

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Speaker 2: we come back, we're going to tell you where Americans

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Speaker 2: stand on this issue. This is a very divisive, obviously

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Speaker 2: politically charged issue, and just how many arrests have been

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Speaker 2: made in this country since Roe v. Wade was overturned

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two. And and welcome back everyone to

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Speaker 2: this episode of Amy and TJ. We are talking about

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Speaker 2: a bell Weather case potentially in the state of Georgia,

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Speaker 2: where a thirty one year old woman, Alexia Moore is

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Speaker 2: sitting behind bars today. She is charged right now with

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Speaker 2: felony murder after she attempted and abortion officials estimate she

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Speaker 2: was between twenty two and twenty four weeks pregnant. She

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Speaker 2: took a pill that she got from online from an

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Speaker 2: online resource that is meant to be an abortion pill,

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Speaker 2: but only for pregnancies ten weeks and under. Ultimately the

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Speaker 2: baby girl was delivered and she died about an hour later.

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Speaker 2: And now prosecutors are determining whether or not to pursue

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Speaker 2: this case. But right now more is behind bars. And look,

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Speaker 2: this is the last poll. The economists in Yugo did

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Speaker 2: a poll a few years ago about where Americans stand

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Speaker 2: on prosecuting women who either have an abortion or attempt

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Speaker 2: an abortion, and whether or not they should be prosecuted.

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Speaker 2: In the states where it is illegal. And are you

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Speaker 2: surprised by this? Nineteen percent said a woman who has

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Speaker 2: had an abortion that violates state law should be charged

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Speaker 2: with murder, should be period. Yes, that's it's not quite

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Speaker 2: a quarter of Americans, but that's a that's a pretty

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Speaker 2: high number.

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Speaker 3: Higher than I would have thought.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I was. I thought it might have been might

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Speaker 1: have been higher for some reason. I was, I don't

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Speaker 1: know it. I was expected to be higher. And I

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Speaker 1: guess ropes when it comes to this. There are so

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Speaker 1: many circumstances I think need to be considered. And maybe

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Speaker 1: that is where because people their circumstances, their home life,

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Speaker 1: their relationships there in finance, all these things kind of

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Speaker 1: play into I mean, how young lady was raised, what

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Speaker 1: she was surrounded by, the example she had, All of

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Speaker 1: this stuff I think should factor in in some way,

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Speaker 1: and it shouldn't just be a blanket charging with murder.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And there's like you pointed this out before we

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Speaker 2: went to break there was a lot we don't know

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Speaker 2: about this. I was wondering, just as a woman, as

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Speaker 2: a human, if this law hadn't been on the books

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Speaker 2: in Georgia, if Roe v. Wade had not been overturned

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two. Would she have saw remedy for

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Speaker 2: being pregnant earlier? Would she have felt comfortable going to

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Speaker 2: an abortion clinic right away or going to her doctor

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Speaker 2: and getting an abortion pill right away as soon as

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Speaker 2: she found out she was pregnant? Did she wait because

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Speaker 2: she didn't know what to do, because she didn't have

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Speaker 2: a lot of options. Then she panicked, she went online,

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Speaker 2: tried to see what she could do on her own.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is all possible that that could have

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Speaker 2: been contributing to her decision to do what she did

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Speaker 2: as late as she did it.

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Speaker 3: We just don't know.

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Speaker 1: We don't And but it's the details and the reading

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Speaker 1: of that police report pretty horrific stuff.

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Speaker 2: It's tough, it's tough to stomach, and you know, you

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Speaker 2: were saying, there are so many there's so many cases

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Speaker 2: where this is in the gray area. Interestingly, twenty six

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Speaker 2: percent of Americans polled said they were unsure whether or

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Speaker 2: not they thought a woman should be prosecuted with murder charges,

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Speaker 2: and the overwhelming number fifty four percent of Americans said

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Speaker 2: that a woman should not be charged with murder if

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Speaker 2: she has an abortion in a state that says it's

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Speaker 2: against the law. And that's interesting because, look, the point

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Speaker 2: being is the whole purpose of having a law is

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Speaker 2: to enforce it. What's the point of having a law

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Speaker 2: if it isn't enforceable. And so far up until this

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Speaker 2: we really haven't seen the law that so many laws

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Speaker 2: that we've seen passed in multiple states, and certainly federally

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Speaker 2: it's an issue as well, we haven't really seen the

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Speaker 2: follow through the enforcement of some of these laws that

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Speaker 2: have been voted into being.

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Speaker 1: Some of them are kind of, if not new, newly allowed,

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Speaker 1: meaning that like the one in Georgia, it was just

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Speaker 1: sitting there kind of dormant until the Supreme Court mate

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Speaker 1: its decision, and once they overturned Robie Wade, all these

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Speaker 1: laws automatically just went into place on the books, and

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Speaker 1: this was one of them. Now this is going to

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Speaker 1: be the first test of it. I'm really curious to

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Speaker 1: see what they're going to do in Georgia, what the

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Speaker 1: state prosecutor is going to do, What is the state

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Speaker 1: going to demand, because when you hear the details of

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Speaker 1: this story, it might be difficult for a prosecutor who

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Speaker 1: might have to run for something down the road to

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Speaker 1: justify not charging a woman. Once people hear these details,

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Speaker 1: which are just no matter what your human being, baby,

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Speaker 1: that's it's tough to stomach this.

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Speaker 2: This one was tough and if you make a good point,

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Speaker 2: if there was any case to actually follow through and

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Speaker 2: prosecute it, it might be this one.

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Speaker 3: This one is a really tough one.

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Speaker 2: And just thinking about the feet of suffering, thinking about

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Speaker 2: you know, what that little girl might have actually felt,

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Speaker 2: or what that baby went through by her taking those pills.

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Speaker 1: Say that what that baby felt, what that baby went through,

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Speaker 1: but what that baby could have been, but the baby

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Speaker 1: could have become who that baby could have become rights,

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Speaker 1: that's a human being. That as an awful story. The circumstances,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure they are very heartbreaking as well when you

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Speaker 1: probably look into this young woman's background and why she

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Speaker 1: ended up in this desperate place. But Bavid, yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is and some people have come out already. I mean,

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Speaker 1: to be expected, those folks who are abortion rights advocates,

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Speaker 1: I suppose just immediately came out in defense and saying

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Speaker 1: she shouldn't be charged with murder. It sounds so punitive. Robes.

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Speaker 1: Woman's just just wanted to find a place for an

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Speaker 1: abortion and now she's charged with murder. Is how some

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Speaker 1: people will hear. Absolutely that's a shame. But then some

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Speaker 1: of the details you hear and you're then you go

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Speaker 1: the other way.

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Speaker 2: This is a tough one. We will be watching it

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Speaker 2: as so many other states. You know, so many of

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Speaker 2: the other states are going to be watching this case

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Speaker 2: to see not only what the DA decides to do,

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Speaker 2: but then what the outcome will be ultimately for this woman.

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Speaker 2: But this, I'm sure, unfortunately, will not be the last

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Speaker 2: case like this. We will continue to follow this as

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Speaker 2: something certainly to watch in the meantime that we do

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Speaker 2: appreciate you listening to us, every one. I made me

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Speaker 2: roboch alongside TJ. Holmes, and we will talk to you soon.