1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History as a production of I Heart Radio. We 2 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: were west of the Azores, five days out of New 3 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: York when we spotted the Mary Celeste. She was listening 4 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: to leeward, but still under sail, with no obvious sign 5 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: of distress. That is the first verse from the Mary 6 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 1: Celeste by John F. McCullough. Welcome to the show Ridiculous Historians. 7 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for tuning in on our first 8 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: episode of that we're recording. At least. My name is Ben, 9 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: My name is all Ben. You know what. I'm a 10 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: big fan of uh nautical terms, and that poem did 11 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: a gang by ster's job of incorporating one of my 12 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 1: other favorite things, alliteration and nautical terms, listing leeward. How 13 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: about that? Yeah? Yeah. This poem is just one of 14 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: the many poems you can find about the famous or 15 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: infamous Mary Celeste. There's the other one, The ghost Ship 16 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: Mary Selest by Leland Waldrop. I love a good Waldrop. 17 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: It's a weird name, right else, I love a good 18 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: ghost ship. Who doesn't like a ghost ship. It's one 19 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: of the all time kind of creepy things. Is this 20 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: idea of a massive vessel meant to be inhabited by 21 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: humans and delivering goods and cargo and and of course 22 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: humans to a destination to discover it completely abandoned, just 23 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 1: drifting out there in the sea. Very unsettling thing. And 24 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: ghost ships like ghost trains, were a common trope in 25 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: the pioneering days of European naval expansion. The Flying Dutchman 26 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: is another one. But the thing about the Mary Slest 27 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: is that it actually was physically discovered before we started 28 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: the show today. I I had asked you and our 29 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: super producer, Casey Pegram. I don't think I forgot that. 30 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: Casey Ben was doing a really just to give you 31 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: a visual, doing a nice almost finger guns kind of 32 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: point at Casey Pegram over there after the window. It's 33 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: just glass. It's good to see. It's good to see 34 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: you man. Don't tap on the glass though. He doesn't 35 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: like that. No, no, no no, And don't feed him 36 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: after midnight. So it was interesting. I was asking guys 37 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: if if you had ever heard of the Mary Celeste, 38 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 1: and Casey you said that this was somewhat unfamiliar to you. Yeah, 39 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever. It didn't ring a bell, 40 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: It did not ring a bell. Certainly, ghost ships. I 41 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: don't know if you guys ever saw that ghost ship movie. 42 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: I was about to say that that's the one I 43 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,119 Speaker 1: think of in popular cold and I never even saw 44 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: the movie. I just saw the first scene, the first 45 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: pretty much have to watch. Incredible. It's it's like they're 46 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,399 Speaker 1: having a ball on the deck of the ship and 47 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 1: what like a wire gets cut loose and like very 48 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: sharp final destination style, slices everyone in in half. Everyone 49 00:02:55,560 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: like slowly slides down in two sections. I love it. 50 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: And you thought, you thought that's perfect, That's all I need. 51 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: She was out at that point. I was like, what 52 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: more can this movie do? This is amazing. That's one 53 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: with Gabriel Burne in it, right? Is he in that? Okay? 54 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: Maybe so, I don't know. He doesn't get sliced in 55 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: the opening anyway. I'm assuming Casey, you might not know 56 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: because you haven't seen the film, that you might have 57 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,399 Speaker 1: read some synopsis. Are the sliced people the ones who 58 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: become the titular ghosts of the ghost ship? I would imagine, 59 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: so yeah, I would imagine those people kind of come 60 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: back in a ghostly form because they're doing sort of 61 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,359 Speaker 1: a play on the idea of a ghost ship, because 62 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: a ghost ship is an abandoned ship or a ship 63 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: where everyone's dead. But this one is about a spooky, 64 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: haunted ship a k a. A ghost ship. Yeah, it's 65 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: like a ghost ghost ship. The whole setup I pulled 66 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: up the plot here. The whole setup is that in 67 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two, everybody dies because of this Why her 68 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: final destination asked death except for one person, a girl 69 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: named Katie who is short, so she survived. Sure, people 70 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: got plenty of reason to live, apparently right, and then 71 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: it fast forwards forty years. I'm probably most familiar with 72 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: the concept of Mary Celeste because I grew up reading 73 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: all those books like the Mysteries of the Unknown, the 74 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: Old Time Life books. Yeah, I still have that full collection, 75 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 1: and I had a bunch of other silly well, I 76 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: don't want to say silly, but titles that were obviously knockoffs, 77 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:31,559 Speaker 1: like Paranormal unexplained an enigmatic conundrums. You know that maybe 78 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: a relative would get me because they were cheaper than 79 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: the Time Life totally. H you gotta look out for 80 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: those relatives. Um. So here's the thing. There's another film, uh, 81 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: not super famous, um, but from called Phantom Ship that 82 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 1: actually is a dramatization of what may or may not 83 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:52,679 Speaker 1: likely definitely did not happen aboard the Mary Celeste, starring 84 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: Bella Legosie in a non vampiric role. Um. But he 85 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 1: still does that spooky thing with his hand. I think 86 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: that might have been medical. Yeah, maybe, kid, who knows. 87 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 1: I mean, it was definitely his trademarked I'm doing it 88 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: right now with just the three fingers, kind of like 89 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: clawing at the the abyss, I guess we could say. 90 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: But yeah, he plays a crazed sailor um who is 91 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: ultimately responsible for what ends up um producing the the 92 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: effect of the ghost ship on the Mary Celeste. Um. 93 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: So let's do the setup. What you gave us that poem, um, 94 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: and that was from the perspective of another ship that 95 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 1: discovers the the abandoned Mary Celeste. What was the name 96 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: of that ship? That's right, yes, So the Mary Celeste 97 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: was an American merchant Brigotine, which, in addition to being 98 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: one of my favorite words, is a two masted sailing vessel. Essentially, 99 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: picture any sailing vessel from from what you would think 100 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: of as pirate days kind of, that's that's what a 101 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: brigotine roughly looks like without making this a nautical pod 102 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: cast the Mary Celeste. Construction on it first began back 103 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: in late eighteen sixty and the vessel was launched on 104 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: May eighteenth, eighteen sixty one. Was given the name Amazon, 105 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: which we'll we'll get into later. But before we get 106 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: to that, the big thing you need to know about 107 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: the Mary Celeste is that was discovered adrift on December fourth, 108 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy two, by another brigotee, the day of Grazia. Uh. 109 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 1: And it was weird because we being our species, the 110 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: survivors found a lot of interesting things, Like we we 111 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: know a lot about the Mary Celeste before its disappearance, right, 112 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: we know the captain Benjamin Briggs, We know the time 113 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: they left New York November eighteen seventy two. We know 114 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: how many people were there. We know what they were hauling, right, 115 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: it was quite a few barrels of industrial grade alcohol um. Interestingly, 116 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: and this will come into play stored in wooden barrels. 117 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: The thing I like about this story as it combines history, 118 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: sensationalized journalism, and a good old fashioned who done it? 119 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: So the immediate thought when you discover an abandoned ship, 120 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,559 Speaker 1: like this is where'd everybody go? Why did they abandon ship? 121 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: What's the evidence of a catastrophe of some kind that 122 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: would cause people to have jumped ship? Um? What we 123 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: did see what when the folks boarded the ship from 124 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: the Dia gratia Um was the following. There were a 125 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: few hatch doors that had been disassembled, been taken off 126 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: their hinges. Uh. There was a water pump that had 127 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: also been disassembled. UM. I think of the several thousand, 128 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: seventeen hundred and one barrels of industrial strength alcohol, Uh, 129 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: there were I believe six of them that had been 130 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: drained completely. And the ship had one lifeboat. This lifeboat 131 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: was missy, but there was still a six month supply 132 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: of food and water on board. Right, So we're gonna 133 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: look at these is almost like clues. Um. Then you 134 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: also in the hold where the barrels were stowed, Uh, 135 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: there was a bit of flooding. There were about three 136 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: and a half feet of water um at the bottom 137 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: of the ship. We also had every most of the 138 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: personal effects of the individuals that have been on board. Um. 139 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: How many how many people do we have in the crew? 140 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: It wasn't very many, ben it's ten. Ten yeah, ten, 141 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: people's personal effects pretty much intact and in their quarters, 142 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 1: and we had the captain's um navigational instruments missing. We 143 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: had a sex tent, I believe, which is what you 144 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: used to gauge, you know, the direction based on the stars. 145 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 1: Isn't that right? Yeah? I mean I've never made one, 146 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: but that sounds right. Yeah. It sort of looks like 147 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 1: it's like a combination of a U telescope and almost 148 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: like remember those compass compass from from Geography Platford for 149 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: doing circles chometry, right, So it allows you to measure 150 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: the distance between two fixed visible objects, and that is 151 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: how you can navigate. Using them, you can figure out 152 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: what direction. Again, I'm not enable captain, but that is 153 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: my basic understanding. But here's the point. He had enough 154 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: time to grab those things. The lifeboat was missing. Um. 155 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 1: Clearly they it would appear anyway that they abandoned ship 156 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: and a pretty orderly fashion, right right right. They contained 157 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: the panic or chaos, which means they must have had 158 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: a heads up and a strong suspicion that things were 159 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: not salvageable. They also took a chronometer, which is an 160 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,599 Speaker 1: instrument that's supposed to keep accurate time despite of variations 161 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: in weather, temperature, air pressure, and so on. Got it. 162 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: So I I think it's even too far to say 163 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 1: they took. At this point, we know the stuff that 164 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: was missing. Builds a likely case that someone or some 165 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: are all of the people on the boat felt they 166 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: had to leave urgently and took only what they needed 167 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: to make their way in the lifeboat. And apparently they also, 168 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: you know, they either felt that they didn't have time 169 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: to get food or their personal effects, or they felt 170 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: that they didn't need to so over the years, over 171 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: the intervening centuries between then and now, in what what 172 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: we see is that this story becomes a victim of 173 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: the great game of telephone, and over the years, so 174 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: many different theories or I don't know, complete embellishments have 175 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: arisen regarding the Mary celestial. You might grow up, like 176 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: like young me, hearing people say, I don't know, maybe aliads, 177 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: maybe sea monsters, which makes no sense. By the way, 178 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: it scares me more than anything. Sea monsters really was 179 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: that because you can't see them because the other the 180 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: other water so deep, and like there's no way of 181 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: knowing if they're there. I'm a little perturbed by ocean 182 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: open ocean, honestly. Yeah. And you know, when I say 183 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: seamonster doesn't necessarily mean like cryptids or anything. I just 184 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: mean like large. I consider like a giant blue whale 185 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: as sea monster. Dude, what do you tell you like? 186 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: Seals are the puppy dogs of the sea. But I 187 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: still don't want to see one in uh, in the 188 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: wild close proximity. Yeah, Jelson would probably try to have 189 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: sex with you all those animals you think are cute 190 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: or doing incredibly depraved things. You know, do we ever mentioned, uh, 191 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: do we ever mentioned the penguin the penguin tail? We 192 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: must have mentioned it on air a while ago when 193 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: penguins were originally spotted, the people who spotted them notice 194 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: them committing acts of necrophilia and edited it out of 195 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: the official report. What necrophilia defiling their falling comrades. Penguin philia? 196 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's terrified. This is anotherthing and totally 197 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: off the off the subject. And there's another thing that 198 00:11:58,200 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: I just found out. Did you know that the whole 199 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: idea of lemmings committing mass suicide is totally made up 200 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: for a Disney thing. Yes, they essentially forced them to 201 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 1: do it, or they, like them, drove them off the cliff. 202 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: And what a weird thing to come up with. I 203 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: like to think that Walt was not directly involved, but 204 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: I don't know the details. Maybe we should return to 205 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: that because that might be an episode of its own, right, yeah, 206 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: I think so. Yeah. And uh, misconceptions right about animals 207 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: and how they came about? Oh man, yeah, we could 208 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: go a number of ways with that, right in, let 209 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: us know about your favorite misconceptions are historical misconceptions about animals, 210 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: as we proceed to bust some myths about the Mary Celeste. 211 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: So we know that the crew of the Day of 212 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: Gracia sailed the Mary Celeste eight hundred miles away to Gibraltar, 213 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: and then they wanted to and they did this not 214 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,719 Speaker 1: out the goodness of their hearts. Now, they wanted some scratch, right, 215 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: This is interesting. I didn't know about this. The idea 216 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,559 Speaker 1: of salvage, right, or you know, if you're another ship 217 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: and you find an abandoned ship floating a drift like that, um, 218 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: you can essentially get paid for dismantling everything and you know, 219 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: selling it off for scrap or salvage or whatever whatever. 220 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: The uh you know the cargo is, which is interesting 221 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: to me because I would think that there was a 222 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: company at the other end of that uh situation, and 223 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: those barrels of alcohol that was their property. I don't 224 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: know how how does that fit in like if insurance? 225 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 1: My friends, Ah, yes, okay, So they wanted to see 226 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,959 Speaker 1: the crew of the Dick Graca wanted to see if 227 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: they could get paid by the ship's insurers. However, their 228 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: plan went awry because the attorney in charge of the 229 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: legal matters, a guy named get this, Frederick Sali Flood 230 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: it s O L L. Y dash Flood, said I 231 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: suspect mischief and shall investigate. We're getting some of this information, 232 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: by the way, from a fantastig article via the Smithsonian 233 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: called abandoned ship the Mary Celeste by Just Blumberg. And 234 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: in these accounts, which is what my question was a 235 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: minute ago, I haven't seen anything referencing like the holding company, 236 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: like the company that the Mary Celeste represented. My point is, 237 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: those barrels of alcohol would have been the property of 238 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: that company. So how come a random ship can just 239 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: come up and say, oh, this is ours? Now? Surely 240 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: the actual company held a claim on that ship and 241 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: it's you know, and it's contents and would have said 242 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: we would like that return to us please. Is that 243 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: why they are able to get paid? Like, I don't 244 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: understand why they would get the full amount of what 245 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: the ship was insured for. You'd think the owners of 246 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: the ship would get that, not in the people that 247 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: discovered it. Yeah. Yeah, that's an interesting that's an interesting 248 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: question there. Did you find anything? I didn't really, because 249 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: what I keep seeing is the crew and the captain 250 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: of the De Gracia Um went and staked this claim 251 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: that they were due something in the neighborhood of forty 252 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: six thousand dollars that the ship was ensured for that 253 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: they would have split between them, which is that's all 254 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: I That's all I found. I found no mention of 255 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: like the parent company, for lack of a better term, 256 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: for this ship and its contents um. But like you said, 257 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: that really wonderfully named cantankerous judge. Uh, he sensed foul 258 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: play because you know, I mean, if someone has something 259 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: to gain in a situation like this. There looks to 260 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: have been some sort of unusual occurrence that left the 261 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: ship abandoned. Uh, it's pretty clear who may have been 262 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: to blame, which you know. The one theory is that 263 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: these uh, these folks aboard this other vessel killed them 264 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: through them overboard, staged it to make it look like 265 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: they had jumped ship and then um rather than stealing 266 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: the contents, which they would have had to then fence 267 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: or god gotta gotta. They knew about these salvage laws, 268 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: and the laws of the sea are different than the 269 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: laws of man and the laws of and so they 270 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: knew that they could get paid if they just returned 271 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: to the ship and said, hey, we want to get 272 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: you know, that insurance money. So the judge was like, 273 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's a little fishy. I'm gonna do 274 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: some digging. And he did do some digging, and it 275 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: took how long did it take? Three months? Yeah, three 276 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: months of digging um and determined that there was no 277 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: foul play, but yet still did not pay out the 278 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: full amount. I think each member of the crew went 279 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: home with a round eight hundred bucks. Yeah. In total, 280 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: they got one six of the forty six grand that 281 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: the ship in its cargo had been in short for. Also, 282 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: I want to go back, it would be remiss. I 283 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: do remember who quote unquote owned that alcohol. H It's 284 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: it's weird. It was a New York consortium headed by 285 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: James H. Winchester. And the thing that makes it sticky 286 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: murky is that the members of the consortium changed multiple 287 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: times from eighteen sixty nine all the way to seventy two. 288 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: But it was Winchester, uh, and then two other investors, 289 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: and then the ship's captain, Benjamin Briggs. Where are they 290 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: in all this though? Where Winchester and all this? You 291 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: don't see mention of him coming and saying, hey, I 292 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: want my money, I want my alcohol. Well, at the 293 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: risk of uh, at the risk of sounding cynical, it's 294 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: it's a lot like asking where were the banks uh 295 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: in many great wars and conflicts? Right? Or who owns 296 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 1: the banks? You know, it's a good point. I mean, 297 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: it's just I don't think that's a situation where there's 298 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: some kind of shadowy proto hydra that's that's attempting to 299 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 1: hide its denatured alcohol trade. I think they may have 300 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: just gotten lost to the sands of history here, because 301 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: we see very quickly that within a few years people 302 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: begin focusing on the more sensationalized aspects of the story, 303 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 1: or they begin creating the sensationalism themselves, because ordinarily Mary 304 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: Celest would have has been a boat that was salvaged, right, 305 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: and insurance took the loss. But that's what insurances for 306 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 1: boats sink somewhere every day. Except that is for a 307 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 1: guy named Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, you may recognize him 308 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: as the mastermind behind Sherlock Holmes Ino. Doyle publishes this 309 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: let's call it account, a narrative of the abandonment of 310 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: the Mary Celeste, and he does it under a under 311 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 1: a fake name, a different title j Habakuk Jepsum's statement. 312 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 1: So he's essentially pulling a war of the world's here right, 313 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: like he's taken back. He's taking like a thing that 314 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 1: is fictionalized as a real thing, like um, you know, 315 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: so it's not presented as a short story. It's presented 316 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: as an account. Like you said, the title was Jay 317 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: have a Cook Jeffson's statement, as though this were someone 318 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: just telling recounting a story. This is a new information 319 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: that has gone so you know, he knew it was 320 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: the work of fiction, but he probably you know, was 321 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 1: trying to get more readers by making people believe that 322 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: it was potentially real and it was actually twelve years 323 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: after the event, and like you said, Ben, it was 324 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: more or less abandoned. The idea of this being some 325 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: you know, people kind of forgot about it. But because 326 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: Arthur Conan Doyle, which I would say twelve years is 327 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: a pretty respectable amount of time, uh, for you know, 328 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: let's let's let's make something interesting out of this. Yeah, 329 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: he's not dancing on a great I don't know that 330 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: he expected it to to go crazy in the way 331 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: that it did, but it did. Yeah. Yeah, And once 332 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:48,360 Speaker 1: it was published in eighteen eighty four in Cornhill Magazine, 333 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: people went nuts and began theorizing about the ship's fate. 334 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: It's kind of like for any of us in the 335 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 1: audience today who are on Reddit, it's kind of like 336 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: when something of global im portants happens on Reddit and 337 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: all the sudden, people who are uh purportedly experts in 338 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: that field come out of the woodwork. You know. There 339 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 1: are people are saying, well with my uh, my experience 340 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: as as a captain, I can say this definitively about 341 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: the Mary Celeste, and then someone else might be saying, 342 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 1: well with my experience as a medium, I can say so, 343 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: and so about the Mary celest And there's someone saying like, look, 344 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 1: I've been around d natured alcohol for ni on twenty 345 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,239 Speaker 1: seven fortnights, and i know a lot about that, so 346 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: I'm an expert. Even the Attorney General Sali Flood, goes 347 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: back to the case and he writes summaries of his 348 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:42,360 Speaker 1: interviews and his notes. But the fact that we were 349 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: unable to solve this mystery means that people continued to 350 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: speculate about this. They said, perhaps the crew mutined, perhaps 351 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,199 Speaker 1: pirates were involved, or sea monsters, or you know, just 352 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 1: a big gass wave. Does one big wave that caught everybody? 353 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 1: Who are they're standing on deck? Uh? And then the 354 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: eight four story by Conan Doyle says, maybe they were 355 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:12,959 Speaker 1: captured by a vengeful ex slave. And I think that 356 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 1: leads into what was the name of that Bella Leegosi 357 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: film you mentioned, Phantom Ship. Phantom Ship. Yeah, I think 358 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: it leads into Phantom Ship where he's an evil sailor. 359 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:29,360 Speaker 1: So now we can turn to people like and McGregor, 360 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: who created the True Story of the Mary Celestia, a 361 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: documentary with some funding from Smithsonian to try to use 362 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: modern techniques to shed some light on these these tragic events. Yeah, 363 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: or even just kind of applying some critical thinking and 364 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 1: deductive reasoning to all this stuff, because we really do 365 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,919 Speaker 1: have again we did, you know, stuff they don't want 366 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: you to know. Style laid out the facts at the 367 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 1: beginning of the show, and those remain the facts. There's nothing. 368 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: They don't have a ton of new information based on 369 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: this investigation. Yeah, there's not like a two other mystery 370 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,479 Speaker 1: people who are on there. Let's start with, you know, 371 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: maybe one of the lowest hanging fruit, um, you know possibilities, 372 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,360 Speaker 1: which would be the idea that the ship was boarded, 373 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: they were robbed and murdered, thrown overboard by pirates. Right. Well, 374 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: with what we do know is that the cargo was 375 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: undisturbed for the most part, aside from those empty barrels, 376 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: right yeah, why would you what what kind of robber 377 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: would you be if you went on board and then 378 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: you didn't take anything, Because you could say, maybe they 379 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: were maybe they didn't know what the cargo was and 380 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 1: they were taking a crapshoot at it and they said, uh, 381 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:47,239 Speaker 1: this is not even alcohol. We can drinks, you know, 382 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: it's it's all for not But the problem with that 383 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:54,199 Speaker 1: is they still would have taken valuable personal effects, you 384 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 1: know what I mean, which they didn't. One thing that 385 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 1: is a bit of an interesting clue is that there 386 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: were two German brothers on the crew named Volcat and 387 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:08,880 Speaker 1: boy Lawrence En, and they were suspect as potentially having 388 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 1: you know, done some kind of dirty dealings because because 389 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: well yeah maybe I'm so sorry German audience thought the 390 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: joke was worth who knows, um. But the main thing 391 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: was that their personal effects were missing. UM. So there 392 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: was this notion that maybe they were the homicidal sailors 393 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: that were depicted by Legosi in that UM film. But 394 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: according to McGregor, who interviewed their descendant UM, they had 395 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: supposedly lost some of their possessions or lost all of 396 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: their possessions, their gear as as as it says in 397 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: the interview UM in a previous shipwreck. Yeah, yeah, that's correct. 398 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 1: Shipwreck that was earlier in eighteen seventy two. And then 399 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: if we say, okay, what if it wasn't pirates, what 400 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: if it was d the crew of the day Garcia. 401 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 1: The problem with that is that the captain of that ship, 402 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: Captain Moorehouse, was actually friends with Captain Benjamin Briggs. There 403 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: was no evidence of violence, and again, nothing really was stolen. 404 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: What's the motive to right? Like, I mean, well, well, okay, 405 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 1: never mind. We even know what the motive might have been. 406 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: It would have been to collect that insurance money. But 407 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: why this one. I mean, I guess since they knew 408 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: each other, maybe there's that connection that you know, he 409 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: would have been aware of this vessel and its cargo, 410 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,680 Speaker 1: and maybe it's a lot of money. It seems like 411 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: a lot of money the time for a ship to 412 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 1: be insured for in the eighteen hundreds, um, but still 413 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: cargo ships like this went back and forth constantly. A 414 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: ship is also a huge investment. So that's an argument 415 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 1: against the mutiny because if there was if there were 416 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: a mutiny and Briggs and his family who are on 417 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: board with him were allowed to survive, they would have 418 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 1: been pushed off the life and the crew would have stayed, 419 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like if you take over 420 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 1: uh battleship, a cruiser or something like that, something of 421 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: that size, then you're not going to immediately leave it. 422 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: We should also say that there was quite a bit 423 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: of superstition involved in stories of the Mary Celeste. That's 424 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: why we set it up in the beginning to say 425 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: that it was originally given the name the Amazon, and 426 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 1: then it was renamed because it encountered uh several different, 427 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 1: uh several different unfortunate events. The original one of the 428 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: captains felt ill and died. The ship under the name 429 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: Amazon collided with other fishing equipment, It ran into and 430 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: sank another boat in the English Channel, and this started 431 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: becoming rich fodder fertile soil for the more supernatural out 432 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: their legends of the Mary Celeste. With that being said, 433 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 1: because of the nature of this show and what the 434 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: show is, we're going to focus on two theories about 435 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 1: what may have happened that actually have some sand to them. 436 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,639 Speaker 1: One of them is the idea of an explosion, but 437 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: not in the way you might think, right, Yeah, no, 438 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: not at all. Remember the seventeen hundred and one barrels 439 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: of industrial grade alcohol um. Also, remember those hatch doors 440 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: that were removed, Remember the water pump that was disassembled. 441 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: A lot of this kind of goes together and coalesces 442 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: into this notion that, uh, the leaking barrels. Remember there 443 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: were nine empty barrels um that they had leaked and 444 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 1: caused and and evaporated you know, the contents of them 445 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 1: and caused like alcohol, you know, very combustible alcohol vapor 446 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: to fill up the tight quarters of the hold of 447 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: the ship, and that some sort of explosion could have 448 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: happened that would have blown the doors off of the 449 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 1: holds right right, And so we can say that even 450 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 1: if if let's put ourselves in the position of Captain 451 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 1: Briggs and say that, even though we have experience, even 452 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: though we are seasoned old salts with plenty of maritime stripes, 453 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: as it were, you're going to freak out when you 454 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: hear this massive explosion below deck during you know, a 455 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: relatively calm day at sea. There's nothing to explain what 456 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: has happened. So it's possible that this alcohol seeping out 457 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: had created a small explosion, or maybe the crew started 458 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 1: to say it's a ticking time, Bob, we gotta go. 459 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: We've got it at least, And it may be further 460 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: possible that they got out of the lifeboat with the 461 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: intention to come back to the ship and they just 462 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: meant to, like, you know, like a fire drill at 463 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: your school when you're growing up and all the kids 464 00:27:58,200 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 1: have to go into the parking lot for a second, 465 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: for sure, that's right. This Captain Briggs had a reputation 466 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: as being really you know, cool headed under pressure. Um. 467 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 1: He was very well liked, very organized, a pretty cracker 468 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,959 Speaker 1: jack sea captain and so um. Since there was no 469 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: evidence of an explosion, because that would have caused some charring, 470 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 1: or there would have been there would have been, you know, 471 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 1: ways to detect that that had happened, even a small one, 472 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: there would have been some evidence. Even in those days 473 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: without forensic stuff, they could have figured out that, Okay, 474 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: something happened that you know, this whole idea of blowing 475 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: the doors off, That wouldn't have just taken them off surgically, 476 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: like by the hinges like they were, um, which may 477 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: have been. They may have done that to air out 478 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: the cabin. Maybe like you said, they evacuated with the 479 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: idea of doing it temporarily while the fumes aired out. Right, 480 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: then they were going to come back. But something happened, 481 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: maybe their toe line was severed, or they they somehow 482 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: lost their attachment to the ship and began to drift off. 483 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: Um and seeing the mary celestue drifting in the other 484 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: direction or whatever. Uh, And that would have been a 485 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: pretty horrific moment. But he's the thing though, I mean, 486 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: he took the he took those those, he took those, um, 487 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: those navigational tools. So it's almost like he intended to 488 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: you wouldn't need those if you were just hanging out 489 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: by the boat, but what if you thought there was 490 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: a possibility it would explode, then you would want to 491 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: have He was thinking ahead. He was trying to boy 492 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: scout his way around it. But we know, you know, 493 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: we know that when the Canadian bricotine found Mary Celeste, 494 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: they also saw a strong rope leading into the ocean. Right, 495 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: So it sounds it sounds like there's a reasonable case 496 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: to be made arguing that they had detached the lifeboat 497 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: but kept it somehow, as you said, moored to the 498 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: larger ship, and then something happened they lost it. It 499 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: was a you know, some through some you know screw up, 500 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: they lost that that attachment. UM. And here's the interesting part. 501 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: Those barrels, those nine barrels that had leaked UM. It 502 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: was very specifically due to the material they were made 503 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: out of. It's really strange. Out of all of those 504 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: thousands of you know, almost two thousand barrels, nine of 505 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: them the ones that leaked were made out of red oak, 506 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: while I believe all of the rest were made out 507 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: of white oak. White oak is water tight, red oak 508 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: is porous, right, so it's much more likely to leak. 509 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: So typically when you see investigative shows or or research 510 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: into what actually happened that faithful day for the Mary Slest, 511 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 1: you will find that people conclude it was something to 512 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: do with the leaking barrels of alcohol, specifically those red 513 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: oak barrels. But there's another there's another theory out there. 514 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: It's it's pretty interesting, and it's this the idea that 515 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 1: the chronometer, the one we mentioned earlier, was faulty, and 516 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: then there was also a bum pump going on. This 517 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: comes to us from a little bit of comparison. We 518 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: look at Attorney General Sally Floods notes on this case 519 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: compared to ocean and graphic data. Researchers have found that 520 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 1: the Mary Celeste was actually way far away from where 521 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: the captain believed it to be. They were full one 522 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: and twenty miles further west than he had he had assumed, 523 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: and so he had already become disoriented. Right. They also 524 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: appeared to change course. Maybe the seas were rougher than 525 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: we thought, or maybe there was something wrong with his instruments. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 526 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: So we have to note that Sally Floods UM Sally 527 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: Floods Research is the closest thing we have to a 528 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: primary source, because the actual log book that was found 529 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: aboard was lost in But yeah, you're you're right. There 530 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: was something wrong with the equipment. This theory argues, because 531 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: they had these pumps right on its previous voyage that 532 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: Mary Selest was transporting coal, and it had also been, 533 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: as we mentioned earlier, repaired and extensively renovated. And maybe, 534 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: the argument goes a pump became clogged with coal and sawdust, 535 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: and without the pump, and with a cargo with all 536 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: this industrial strength alcohol, some of it leaking, Briggs wouldn't 537 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: be able to tell how much seawater it actually come 538 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: into the whole. So he may have thought it was 539 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: legit sinking. That's right. And what we do know is 540 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: that they were within sight of land uh, and he 541 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: figured maybe let's cut our losses and abandoned ships since 542 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: we don't know how much seawater is coming in um, 543 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: and just take our chances on the lifeboat because it's 544 00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 1: not that far to to dry land. But what we 545 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: do know is that none of these folks were ever 546 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: heard of again. And whenever you have a situation like that, 547 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: that leads to wild speculation because we can never hear 548 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: from a primary source, like you said, ben aside from 549 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 1: the person who did an investigation, Um that Attorney General 550 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: Sali Flood Um will never really hear what actually happened 551 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: because you know, they're they're just gone. Yeah. And that's 552 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: the spooky part, right, because if they were that close 553 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 1: to land with an expert sea captain at the helm, 554 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: what why what I mean, what what could have possibly happened? 555 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: Six miles There's six miles away, which doesn't seem like 556 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: that far away, right when you consider how large the 557 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 1: ocean is, What would a lifeboat be like in these days? 558 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: It would be like a rowboat, right, So they would 559 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: have had to row against maybe choppy waters. Well, it 560 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 1: would be assuming that they had ten souls aboard. Yeah, 561 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: we it would be. It's method of propulsion would be rowing, 562 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: would be oars, that's it would be. It would still 563 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: be too small, probably need to have a mass of 564 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: any sort, you know, the sale, so they would have 565 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: to row. But six miles rowing against choppy waters though 566 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: that would be no small task, right, especially if you're 567 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: going against like the current or whatever. I mean, that 568 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: would be tough. That's the question too, because then it 569 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,800 Speaker 1: calls to mind, like what was the weather at during 570 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,839 Speaker 1: this time, where the original accounts of calm weather just 571 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,319 Speaker 1: accounts of what the weather was like the day the 572 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 1: boat was discovered abandoned, you know, because a storm can 573 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,919 Speaker 1: come and go very quickly in the yture. So we 574 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 1: don't know what happened to Briggs and his crew and 575 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: his family, but we do have a little bit more 576 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: information about the fate of the boat itself because in 577 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:50,799 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy four, the Mary Celeste, despite this the smirched reputation, 578 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 1: was sold at a loss to a partnership that wanted 579 00:34:55,080 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 1: to operate the boat in the Indian Ocean, and because 580 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: the lady's reputation preceded her, the Mary Celeste never made 581 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,800 Speaker 1: a profit, lost money on every voyage in In eighteen 582 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 1: seventy nine, another sea captain in charge of the ship 583 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: fell ill and died, and this gave more um more 584 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,240 Speaker 1: fuel to the rumor that the ship was cursed. Later, 585 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: she was sold to a firm in Boston. And then 586 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: I think there's there's this, you know, fairly frequents series 587 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 1: of handoffs and sales and resales because people don't want 588 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: to get rid of a ship again. It's such an 589 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,879 Speaker 1: enormous investment, even a cursed ship. It's like, hey, well, 590 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,879 Speaker 1: welcome to my murder mansion. You know, people die here, 591 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 1: uh midnight once every seven years. But it is a mansion, 592 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: and I like to emphasize that part of it. It's 593 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: very true. It's very true, ben Um. And there's even 594 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 1: another kind of potential insurance scam situation that happens in 595 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty four when the commanding officer at the time, 596 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: a Gilman See Parker, tries to perpetrate insurance fraud against 597 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: the company that had ensured the ship. And they did 598 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 1: this by putting a bunch of useless crap into the 599 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 1: ship's hold. Um, and then they made a fake manifest 600 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: and uh just tried to ensure it for a value 601 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: of thirty thousand dollars. And then and then uh Parker 602 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,800 Speaker 1: sails off for Haiti. As they approached the port, he 603 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,720 Speaker 1: deliberately wrecks the ship. He steers it into a reef, 604 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: and it's a reef that everybody knows about. Ever been 605 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: on a boat in the Atlantic, if you're a sailor, 606 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: you know about this reef. So the collision rips the 607 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 1: boat apart, recks the ship, everybody abandoned ship. And then 608 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: Parker immediately goes to file his claim, right, Yeah, he does, 609 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 1: and doesn't doesn't go over so well. Um, it's discovered 610 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: pretty quick that he had forged this manifest that the 611 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:07,839 Speaker 1: material inside the ship was absolutely over insured. Um. And 612 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,319 Speaker 1: then he was put on trial, but it ended in 613 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 1: a mistrial, but irreparably damaged the man's reputation, and he 614 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:22,760 Speaker 1: died three months later. Yea, So maybe in that case, 615 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: the curse of the Mary Celeste was his self fulfilling prophecy. 616 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:32,799 Speaker 1: After that, the breck of the ship was never recovered, 617 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: and the natural world took over. The reef began to 618 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: grow to literally eat the timbers the bones of the 619 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,959 Speaker 1: Mary Celeste. In two thousand and one, an expedition said 620 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 1: they discovered partial remains, but as of now that has 621 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: not been definitively proven. And here our story pauses, and 622 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 1: perhaps this will also be the end of the story. 623 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 1: We look at the evidence available and we see that 624 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: the mystery of the Mary Celeste probably does boil down 625 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: to these these relatively mundane but no less terrifying factors. Uh. 626 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 1: And the stories that the Mary Celeste has inspired in 627 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 1: fiction and film, poetry and art and so on have 628 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,279 Speaker 1: taken on a life of their own. You know what 629 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 1: I mean. I think most people watching any fiction inspired 630 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 1: by the Mary Celeste are not swayed by it, right. No, 631 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 1: that's the thing I mean, And that's what we've seen 632 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: from the beginning of this is that the fiction is 633 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 1: probably a little more interesting and compelling than what actually happened. Uh. 634 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,280 Speaker 1: And yet we still don't fully know what actually happened. 635 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: But I don't believe in cursed ships, do you, Ben? Yeah? Man? Really, 636 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: I mean for fun, Okay, that's what I'm saying. Like, 637 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: when Sir Arthur Conan Doyle kind of blew this thing up, Um, 638 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 1: that's when it started being a lot of fun, because 639 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,120 Speaker 1: it's great fodder for a story, because there's so any 640 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 1: unanswered questions. You can fill in the gaps of the 641 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 1: narrative of yourself with your imagination. Yeah. I have a 642 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 1: sci fi story that starts after actually a triptych that 643 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:15,479 Speaker 1: starts with the Mary Celeste, so I I cannot throw 644 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 1: stones in this glasshouse. I definitely used as a jumping 645 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 1: off point. And there's something I don't know, you know, 646 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 1: the the idea of curses. We we've seen this in 647 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 1: multiple other historical accounts, right like the curse the so 648 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,840 Speaker 1: called as you would say, the curse of King Tutt, 649 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: right that turned out to have some uh some explicable factors, 650 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,279 Speaker 1: the curse of the Hope Diamond. I'm just thinking of curses. Now. 651 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 1: Let us know your favorite historical curse, or let us 652 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,200 Speaker 1: know the one that you think has the most um 653 00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:57,799 Speaker 1: plausibility to it. You can find us on Instagram. You 654 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 1: can find us on Facebook. You can find us on Twitter. 655 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,279 Speaker 1: We are some derivation of Ridiculous History. Check out our 656 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 1: Facebook group Ridiculous Historians, where you can share your stories 657 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,400 Speaker 1: with our favorite part of the show, your fellow listeners. 658 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 1: You can also follow uh, Noel and I on our 659 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,719 Speaker 1: own social needs. I am Ben Bowling and Instagram and 660 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,279 Speaker 1: Ben Bowling hs W on Twitter, and you can find 661 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 1: me exclusively on Instagram at how Now Noel Brown Big 662 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 1: Thanks to super producer Casey Pegram as always happen to 663 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,840 Speaker 1: be back in the shipping container after a most enjoyable holiday. 664 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:36,279 Speaker 1: Thanks to Gabe, our research associate extraordinaire um. Thanks to 665 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 1: Alex Williams who composed our theme. Thanks of course to 666 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 1: Christopher hascy Otis who, as we said, well return very soon. 667 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,400 Speaker 1: Thanks of course to Eve's Jeff Cote uh, the mastermind 668 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,439 Speaker 1: behind this day in History class as well as apro punk. 669 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 1: Thanks of course to Jonathan Strickland's a k a. The 670 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: Quister who has has a cursed all of his own right. 671 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,120 Speaker 1: And of course, of course no thanks to you man 672 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 1: Happy twenty Thanks but you two man see you next time. Folks. 673 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I 674 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 675 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 1: your favorite shows,