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Welcome 39 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: to the piked in Massacre, a production of iHeartRadio and 40 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: Katie Studios. On the morning of April twenty second, twenty sixteen, 41 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:14,679 Speaker 1: the small town of Piked in Ohio, who awoke to 42 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: some horrifying news. Spread out across four homes, all within 43 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 1: a few miles of each other, Eight members of a 44 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: local family, the Rodents, were found murdered. They were shot 45 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: execution style in their beds, the victims of a methodical 46 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: killing spree. It was an unprecedented and confounding crime, one 47 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: that would launched the largest homicide investigation in Ohio's history. Restoration, anger, sadness, 48 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: emotions are still raw in Pike County. Most of the 49 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: people in this town say, whoever shot and killed eight 50 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 1: members of the Rodent family need to be found soon. 51 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: I hope that in this area apprehend eating everyone. These 52 00:02:52,600 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: aren't peoples, These are monstering. Episode two, Wagner's in Custody. 53 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: I'm Courtney Armstrong, a TV producer at Katie Studios. With 54 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:12,519 Speaker 1: Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane, we produced television series and documentaries. 55 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: Here's Stephanie for me. This case was incredibly disturbing and 56 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: personally really hard to stop thinking about eight people from 57 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: the exact same family, all killed in one night, but 58 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 1: at four different locations. That's extremely strategic. The three of 59 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: us have been following this case very closely for years. 60 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: Here's producer Jeff Shane talking to Jodi Barr, an investigative 61 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: journalists who have reported for TV station Fox nineteen and Cincinnati. 62 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: You're not, as a journalist, easily shocked, but like this 63 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: was shocking, probably right, Yeah, it was shocking. I would 64 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: say it was more confusion because on the typical murder, 65 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: or you know, a breaking news story, you can roll 66 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: the advance in your mind. But this is this isn't 67 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: the typical murder, you know, where there's one or two 68 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,119 Speaker 1: victims of a single house and you know the bad 69 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: guy took off. You know, this was something way outside 70 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: the norm. You're just thinking, what is going on here? 71 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: This none of this makes sense, But you knew it 72 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: had to be something big because you've got eight members 73 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: of one family targeted, murdered in their sleep, in their homes, 74 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: and the killers seemingly vanished. We didn't know the pieces, 75 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: we didn't know how to put it together. There was 76 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: no information coming out about these murders, about motives, even 77 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 1: the family members who were in direct communication with law 78 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: enforcement even they weren't being told anything. I mean, call 79 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: it good investigative work, and you know, you hold your 80 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: cards plus to the chest as an investigator. Maybe that's 81 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: what it was, but you know, from the outside looking in, 82 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: it was almost like the law enforcement didn't have a 83 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: clue at that point in time. Overwhelming amount of tamps 84 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: have been pouring into police, but no arrestive and me 85 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: with or any general. Mike DeWine is saying that over 86 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: two hundred investigators and police officers have contributed and so 87 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: forward to this ongoing investigation, but the killer has disappeared. 88 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 1: As the investigation dragged on, rumors ran rampant in the 89 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: close knit community, and journalists like Jodie Barr started digging deeper. 90 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: This did seem to be a very tactical, a very 91 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: clean sort of you know, when you think of an 92 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: assassin doing a hit like you see in the movies. 93 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: You started to wonder if there wasn't something to that 94 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: because of just how seemingly clean these killings were. I mean, 95 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: how does one person or a group of people hit 96 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: four separate homes, kill eight different people, seemingly lead absolutely 97 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: no trace of any evidence. What does this mean, what 98 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: is going on here? But after I started having conversations 99 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: with the Rodent family and you started talking to some 100 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: people who were very close to the victims in this case, 101 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: at least very close acquaintances, you started to realize that, 102 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: you know, there were some people that even I had 103 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 1: conversations with in Pike County who I knew they knew 104 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: more than what they were telling me. I knew they 105 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: knew more about what happened that morning, and they knew 106 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: more about the circumstances surrounding the Rodents that could have 107 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: led to these murders. But they would not tell it. 108 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: And I don't know if it was because they were 109 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 1: afraid or they didn't want to believe what they believed happened. 110 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: But all we kept hearing from the Rodent family, from 111 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 1: the people around there, and they were phrasing this way 112 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: is that it was locals. What did that mean? We 113 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: didn't know. By the summer of twenty eighteen, the investigation 114 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: had entered its second year, and Piked in residence, like Barbara, 115 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: were becoming increasingly scared. It's an extremely sinister thing that occurred. 116 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: It's like a movie. When I was young, people got 117 00:06:55,600 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: along and you know it was we left our doors unlocked, 118 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: you know it was. It was that trusting and relaxed 119 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: in Pike County, so we couldn't believe something like that 120 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: what happened here, and it was. It was especially terrifying 121 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: because no one knew who did it or why. And 122 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: you don't know if your family's next. It's just grizzling 123 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: scene in a briskling situation. If you are fearful, arm yourself. 124 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: If you feel that you need to protect yourself or family, 125 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: do so. On November thirteenth, twenty eighteen, everything with it 126 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: to change. Here's Governor of Ohio, Might Dwine, then Attorney General, Well, 127 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: good afternoon. We promised that the day would come when 128 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: the rest would be made in the Pike County Master's 129 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: Today is that day. In a series of arrest that 130 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: sent shock waves through the insulated community, six members of 131 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: a local family, the Wagners, were taken into custody. Up, 132 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: keep your hands up, go up. Forty seven year old 133 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: Billy Wagner is the patriarch of the Wagner family and 134 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: was arrested near Lexington, Kentucky, and a horse trailer that 135 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: was pulled over. I'm waga I'm Wagaba. Angela Wagner is 136 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: Billy's wife and matriarch of the Wagner family. The forty 137 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: eight year old was arrested at their home near piked In, Ohio. 138 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: Go Ahead, Angelo Wagner in the car one Cope thirteen 139 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: thirty one. Angela and Billy's two sons, George Wagner and 140 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner, were arrested together during a traffic stop. George 141 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: was twenty seven and Jake was twenty six. Seventy six 142 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: year old Fredrika Wagner, Billy Wagner's mother, was arrested at 143 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 1: the family's horse farm. The Flying w Angela Wagner's mother, 144 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: sixty five year old Rita Joe Nukam, was arrested at 145 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: her home, while six members of the Wagner family were 146 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: arrested in connection with the crime. Billy, Angela, George, and 147 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner were charged with eight counts of aggravated murder. 148 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: It feels about the arrests of four people in the 149 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,439 Speaker 1: murders of eight members of the road In family back 150 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: in April twenty sixteen. Mike Allen, a criminal defense attorney 151 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: and legal commentator for Fox nineteen and Cincinnati was covering 152 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: the story when the news broke. All the arrests happened 153 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 1: within minutes of each other, and that tells me that 154 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: the BCI, the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification, who was 155 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: in charge of this investigation, they know what they're doing 156 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: and they wanted to make sure that they affected these 157 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: arrests without any kind of problems or tipping anybody off, 158 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: So they had that thing down pretty tight. You've got 159 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:00,839 Speaker 1: four people charged in the murders, and the well, it's 160 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:04,199 Speaker 1: actuated murder, and that's capital murder in the state of 161 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: Ohio that does have the death penalty as a possible 162 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: penalty in a case like this, so it is death 163 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: penalty case. How rare is it to have multiple capital 164 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: murder cases going? I haven't seen multiple four people up 165 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 1: for capital murder in Ohio before, you know what, And 166 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:25,599 Speaker 1: I've been in the system for over fifty years, and 167 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: I mean the most I've seen were two co defendants 168 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: being tried for capital murder from the same set of facts, 169 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: but never four. So that is extremely rare that you 170 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 1: got four people for defendants facing the death penalty. The 171 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: charges for the two other family members were less severe. 172 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: Grandmother Frederica Wagner, Billy Wagner's mother was charged with obstruction 173 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: of justice and perjury. Angela Wagner's mother, Rita Newcomb, was 174 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:03,719 Speaker 1: charged with forgery, perjury, and obstruction of justice. But to 175 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: Mike Allen, one charge brought against the alleged trigger pullers 176 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,319 Speaker 1: makes one thing clear. They're also charged with conspiracy engaging 177 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: in a pattern of corrupt activity, which means that they 178 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: all work together on this. I think it's obvious, at 179 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: least to the prosecutors and the investigators that this thing 180 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: there was nobody freelancing. They were possibly all operating together 181 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: tampering with evidence. That kind of speaks for itself. I mean, 182 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: you know, once they knew that they were the focus 183 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: of the investigation, perhaps they did something with the evidence. 184 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: We're going to stick a quick break here. We'll be 185 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: back in a moment. Like many of us, you might 186 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: think identity theft will never happen to you, but consider this. 187 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,079 Speaker 1: There's a new identity theft victim every three seconds in 188 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: the US. That's over fifteen million people by the end 189 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: of this year, equal to the populations of New York, 190 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: Los Angeles, and Chicago combined. 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I knew something better for 209 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,079 Speaker 1: the children they love. This is the mission to get 210 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 1: the child back. I was so scared I would have 211 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: to disguise myself to get him. You're not keeping my 212 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 1: child for incredible heart racing stories. I'm not a detective. 213 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 1: I just wanted my family back together. I had to 214 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,559 Speaker 1: live a double life to save my son. This is 215 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:30,959 Speaker 1: the last chance to get my kids back, and that's 216 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: when all hell breaks loose. It has to be away. 217 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: Go Go, Go experience the stunning new true crime docuseries 218 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: Mother Undercover. I wanted him to know you mess with 219 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: the wrong mother, now streaming only on Who over Search, 220 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: Mother Undercover. You will fail. So what everybody does, but 221 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: your jim, your watch, your yoga pants, they pretend you won't. 222 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: So when you miss a day, eat the pancakes, give 223 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 1: up on a workout, you failed. Seriously, What the hell? 224 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 1: We're Body. We've been a part of that too, but 225 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: not anymore. At Body, we're rejecting perfection and embracing reality. 226 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,719 Speaker 1: Not in a Pizza Monday kind of way, in a 227 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: loving your whole life kind of way. In this workout 228 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: is fun and it's okay if I take a week 229 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: off kind of way. In an I'm eating healthy and 230 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: it's okay if I indulge kind of way in a 231 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: I like myself. No matter what kind of way. Yeah, 232 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: you will fail, We all will. But we're not going 233 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: to let that be the end. Now, see that we're 234 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: already making progress. So let's keep going. We are Body 235 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: start your free trial at body dot com. That's Bodi 236 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: dot com. Swaying, giant kelp with sunlight streaking through whole, 237 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: sing Jellies, fuzzy sea otters. Those are a few of 238 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: the awe inspiring exhibits visitors can experience a the Monterey 239 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: Bay Aquarium. A critical part of the Aquarium's mission is 240 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: working with our communities to protect the ocean. These creatures 241 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: call home by fighting to end plastic pollution and climate change. 242 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: Showing our community of ocean lovers and support our mission 243 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: to inspire conservation of the ocean at Monterey Bay Aquarium 244 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: dot org, slash share your Voice. We needed to know 245 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: more about the rodents and the accused, the Wagners. We 246 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: also wanted to be and piped in to learn about 247 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: the town. So Stephanie, Jeff and I flew to Ohio. 248 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: There was this extremely eerie vibe to the town. There 249 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: definitely was a sense that something very big was happening 250 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: real time. It almost felt it felt a little dangerous. 251 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: I think Erieinus, which said is the best word, like 252 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: just something was not right. Yeah, and it's not uncommon. 253 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: It was a perfect American small town, right, there's one diner, 254 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: there's not a movie theater. So again, small insulated. And 255 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: you know, we just when we just started trying to 256 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: go door to door to meet anyone who could tell 257 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: us about the Rodent family, I would say every single 258 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: person we spoke to legitimately invited us inside and could 259 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: not have been lovelier. There also was the experience of 260 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: knocking on doors knowing very well people are there. We 261 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: there was smoke coming out of the chimney, We physically 262 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: saw the curtains be closed, and certain people understandably didn't 263 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: want to speak to us, but those who did, they 264 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: were so welcoming. We reached out to journalist Jeff Winkler, 265 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: who was doing research on the Wagner family. For me personally. 266 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: When I first got an idea of how the Rodents 267 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: lived and you know, who was related to who and whatnot, 268 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: I think I originally had the sense that the Wagners 269 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: were the same sort of um position in terms of 270 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 1: property and and perhaps financial situation. Well not but the Wagners, 271 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 1: I was people rather surprised to learn that they had, 272 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: you know, a huge farm. They'd been running various um 273 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: farm businesses on this huge bit of land or landlords 274 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: and um there were there was something of a sort 275 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 1: of um sort of a family, if you will, in 276 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,239 Speaker 1: the area. And you know, there were people that they 277 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: they we spoke with that had some very open thoughts 278 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: and loving thoughts about the family. In all this, we 279 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 1: couldn't help wonder how could this esteemed piked In family 280 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: allegedly be responsible for Ohio's most horrific murder. It seemed 281 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: like everyone had an opinion. Here's Angie Montgomery, a piked 282 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: In resident. When the Wagners were arrested, you had your 283 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: fifty fifty had people that said, yes, I knew that 284 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: they did that, and then you've got people that say, 285 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: there's no way those people did not happen. But we 286 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: wanted to get the story for ourselves, to talk to 287 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: those who actually knew the people accused of carrying out 288 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: these ruthless murders. Hello, Hi, Dore, It's Jeff Shane calling Hi. Hi, 289 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: How are you it is now a good time. Yeah, 290 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: this is Deray McLevy. She's Billy Wagner's cousin and she 291 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: grew up with the Wagner's. Were you close with um Billy? 292 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: Billy was quite a bit younger than me. I was 293 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: about eleven years old when Billy was born, but I 294 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: was raised with him and we had a whole lot 295 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:42,160 Speaker 1: of fun. It was so much fun. We all bred horses, 296 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: and we lived in Ohio and it was beautiful, and 297 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: it snowed in the wintertime, and it was beautiful in 298 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: the Thumber, and we just had so much fun. It 299 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: was unbelievable. He was like a really good dad, right, 300 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: like a hard working just like Sturdy, like good person, right, 301 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 1: all for his family, all for his family. Deray's depiction 302 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: of her aunt, Frederica Wagner was justice glowing. I spent 303 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: my summers with my aunt Frederica. It was awesome because 304 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: we rode horses, we rode ponies, did all kinds of 305 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: awesome stuff. I've heard the nicest things about her that 306 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: she was like an angel in that town. She had 307 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 1: to have been an angel in that town because what 308 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: I seen for her, what she did for the community. 309 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: She built a church for the community. She financed the 310 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: church for the community. She loves people, she loves children. 311 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: But we were curious what did Deray think about the 312 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: charges against her family. Our family joke is that there's 313 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: no way that Betty Crocker and the Dobe boys could 314 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:55,439 Speaker 1: ever go to an extreme of murder. It's not within 315 00:19:55,720 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: their capabilities. They love animals and they love people, and 316 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: they are really good at being resilient. And if you 317 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: look up the word hill Billy and you really research 318 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: that word, they were very resilient in taking care of 319 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: their family. Somebody did it, but it wasn't Now. To 320 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: get more information on twenty seven year old George and 321 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 1: twenty six year old Jake Wagner, Angela and Billy Wagner's sons, 322 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: we reached out to Christina Howard. Christina's sister, Tabitha, was 323 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: married to George Wagner. The pair later divorced. Christina spoke 324 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: with Stephanie Lydecker about the time she spent with the 325 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 1: Wagner family. My sister spent a lot of time over 326 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: at George's house before they got married. She was pretty 327 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: much living with them at the time. Before she got married. 328 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:00,360 Speaker 1: And then after she got married, she moved in with them, 329 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: and I used to go over there to their house 330 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: every now and again. You know. Um, And did he 331 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 1: seem like a nice guy. What was his demeanor like? Um? 332 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: It was funny. He was always cracking jokes and stuff 333 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: all the time. So I don't know much about Jake 334 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: Wagner at all. What was he like as a kid? Um? 335 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: He was actually really sweet as a kid. We got 336 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: along pretty good because you know, we just hung out 337 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 1: all the time, played video games, went outside. Was he shy? Um, 338 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: he wasn't shy with me. He was a really nice 339 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: kid and well grown up. My sisters were kind of 340 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: bullies to me and Tabby she was dating George at 341 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: the time, and Tabby she would pick on me, and 342 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: Jake he would take up for me, but like, hey, 343 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: don't pick on your little sister like that. It's mean 344 00:21:50,560 --> 00:22:00,919 Speaker 1: and stuff. Here's a Wagner family relative. She asked us 345 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: not to use her name, but was happy to talk 346 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,679 Speaker 1: to us about the family. She remembers Angela Wagner as 347 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: a caring mother with a big heart. Angela was just 348 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: so sweet, like she was the sweetest lady. I mean, 349 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 1: anybody could ask her for help. I know there was 350 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: multiple times where there was just she had heard, you 351 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: know of Um like, there was a woman and her 352 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 1: daughter that was getting out of an abusive relationship and 353 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: Angela had just heard about it. She didn't know this lady, 354 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: you know, she had no idea anything about her. She 355 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: just knew that this woman and her daughter, you know, 356 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,479 Speaker 1: needed help. So Angela went in and helped her get 357 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: out of that. You know. She she gave a place 358 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: to stay, She made sure that the daughter had clothes 359 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: and food, and um, you know, she would always do 360 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: stuff like that for people. Everything we were hearing about 361 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: the Wagner seemed at odds with this image of the 362 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: cold blooded killers accused of murdering an entire family. But 363 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: the deeper we dug, the more secrets we began to find. 364 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,959 Speaker 1: Jeff continues speaking with the same anonymous Wagner relative who 365 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: speaks so glowingly Evangela Wagner. As it turns out, not 366 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 1: everyone in the Wagner family has such a sterling reputation, 367 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: and when the conversation shifts to Billy Wagner, things take 368 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: a turn. Here is the Wagner relative's firsthand account. Do 369 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: you know when she met Billy and like when that 370 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 1: when they got married and how like that relationship started 371 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: and progressed. Uh yeah, that was. She has been with 372 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: him for um twenty something years, maybe longer, but forwards 373 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: he goes um. Now that's a difference. Like I and 374 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: my family, we always kind of thought some kinds was 375 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 1: like off with him. We never act, we never got 376 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: to like connect with him in that way. We always 377 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: everybody always trying to knew that there was something strange 378 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 1: or that he was kind of he just had this 379 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: persona about him, like he was just a very cold 380 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: and hateful person really is what I thought of. In anyways, 381 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,640 Speaker 1: he was just a very rough around me as a guy. 382 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: And when it comes to him and Angela, I'm not 383 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 1: sure really how the beginning of their relationship was, but 384 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: I know towards the end, like before or you know, 385 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: right after all this happened, he was just very controlling, 386 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: very controlling. She was afraid of him, extremely afraid of him, 387 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: as were the boys now their oldest son George, him 388 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: and his dad. They were kind of like the same. 389 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: I I just I don't believe that they're good people 390 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 1: at all. So what can you tell me? About the 391 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: relationship between Angela and Billy Wagner. I do know that 392 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 1: Angela was She was extremely She was just afraid to leave. 393 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: You know, she was afraid to leave. She was terrified 394 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: that if she did try to leave, that he would 395 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: find her, because he made that very clear. You know 396 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: from what I've heard and what her father had said 397 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: on multiple trasitions, like you know you're not gonna leave. 398 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,400 Speaker 1: Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back 399 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 1: in a moment. 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I'm not a detective. I just wanted 410 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,120 Speaker 1: my family back together. I had to live a double 411 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: life to save my son. This is the ask chance 412 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 1: to get my kids back, and that's when all hell 413 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: breaks loose. Go Go, Go experience the stunning new true 414 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: crime docuseries Mother Undercover. I wanted him to know. You 415 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: mess with the wrong mother, now streaming only on Whoever 416 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: search Mother Undercover. You will fail, So what everybody does, 417 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: but your jim, your watch, your yoga pants, they pretend 418 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: you won't. So when you miss a day, eat the pancakes, 419 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: give up on a workout, you failed. Seriously, what the 420 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 1: hell we're Body. We've been a part of that too, 421 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: but not anymore at Body or rejecting perfection an embracing reality, 422 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 1: not in a Pizza Monday kind of way, in a 423 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: loving your whole life kind of way, in a this 424 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: workout is fun and it's okay if I take a 425 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: week off kind of way, in an I'm eating healthy 426 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: and it's okay if I indulge kind of way, in 427 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: a I like myself. No matter what kind of way. Yeah, 428 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 1: you will fail, we all will. But we're not going 429 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 1: to let that be the end. Now, see that we're 430 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: already making progress. So let's keep going. We are Body. 431 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 1: Start your free trial at body dot com. That's Bodi 432 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 1: dot com. When we protect the ocean, we protect the 433 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: creatures we love and ourselves. From sea otters to penguins 434 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 1: to the always grumpy looking giant sea bass. These animals 435 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: need a healthy ocean to thrive, and so do we. 436 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: It takes a community dedicated to nurturing our favorite places 437 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: to ensure these animals big too small, as well as 438 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: other crucial sea life like help anemones and jellies can flourish, 439 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: and a healthy ocean helps us all. Join our mission 440 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,719 Speaker 1: to inspire conservation of the ocean by visiting us at 441 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: Monterey Bay Aquarium dot org, slash share your voice. So 442 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: you booked your beach vacation, but do you have all 443 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 1: you need to make it a good time. This week, 444 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: CNN Underscored editors are highlighting the best to get you 445 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: into the water this summer, from swimsuits and swin trunks 446 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 1: for everybody type to bikini trimmers and waterproof sunscreen for 447 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: every skin type. Seeing an Underscored use your trusted source 448 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 1: for hands on product testing and honest reviews, to the 449 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: latest trends and online deals. Visit CNN underscore dot com 450 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 1: to find your perfect match today. This account of Angela 451 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: and Billy's relationship piqued our curiosity, so we started poking 452 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: around for more information about the Wagner's. Most of what 453 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: we uncovered had to do with grandmother Frederico Wagner, Billy 454 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: Wagner's mother, and what seemed to be some potentially questionable 455 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: business practices. I followed up with journalist Jeff Winkler to 456 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: find out more. Edrico Wagner was repeatedly referred to as 457 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: a god fearing woman, was running a nursing home and 458 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: doing a lot of community service and community care for 459 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: people like the Wagners, had a lot of different sides 460 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: to them exactly, and she had started a church as well, 461 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: and she took underprivileged kids. If people needed groceries, she 462 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: brought them groceries. So there is all of that, and 463 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: then on the flip side, many other people say they 464 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: were very secretive. There's also allegations of, for example, in 465 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: the nursing home, maybe some dishonest business and perhaps cheating 466 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: people who were at a disadvantage out of money. And 467 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: these are substantial court documents. Yeah, the longer we looked 468 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: into it, the longer it seemed like the Wagners, you know, 469 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: apart from having property and been there for a long time. 470 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: They were wheeling and dealing, and I think although they 471 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: were sort of pillars of the community and involved in 472 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: the community, certainly I think that sort of especially when 473 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: you have that sort of much to lose, you get protective. 474 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: Fredrika Wagner had very much built the family business. FREDRICKA. 475 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: Wagner was the one who kept the family business going, 476 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: and she get the family and businesses on track. And uh, 477 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: you know, when you are building an empire, the last 478 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: thing you want to do is to see it fall. 479 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: And they were working on their fourth generation of Wagner 480 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: dominance in the area. So I can definitely understand sort 481 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: of protectiveness of that. And in those cases, you you know, 482 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,239 Speaker 1: maybe you close, maybe you close ranks a little bit. 483 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 1: You stick, you stick to kin. You know, blood is 484 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: stick in the water. As we talked to more people 485 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: in the community, we found that these rumblings about the 486 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: Wagner's business practices had been circulating for years and some 487 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: held a deep distrust of the family and they're once 488 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: sterling reputation. Jeff got Barber's thoughts about grandmother Frederico Wagner. 489 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: All I've ever heard about her is one. I've heard 490 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: how wonderful she is, how generous she was. I never 491 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: heard a bad word about that woman. But just you know, 492 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: she knew what she was doing, and she just did 493 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: what she could do to keep them from being guilty, 494 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: to keep them from being found guilty or from being arrested, 495 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Yeah, they seem like everyone 496 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: was on the surface, like everyone loved them, and then 497 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: when this happens, all the other dirt kind of starts 498 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: coming out. It's like I can see beneath that surface, 499 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: you know, I feel like I can see her heart. 500 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: When I look at her, I just see a I 501 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 1: just kind of see evil. But while Frederica Wagner may 502 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: have been involved in some questionable business dealings, and to 503 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: some accounts, Billy Wagner may not have been the best husband, 504 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: we still didn't know what all this had to do 505 00:31:55,280 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: with the Rodents. At their arrangement, all six members of 506 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: the Wagner family pled not guilty to all charges. It 507 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,719 Speaker 1: is worth noting, however, that the charges against Frederica Wagner 508 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: were eventually dropped and Rita Joe Nukam ended up taking 509 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: a plea deal. There's more to tell on these grandmother's stories, 510 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: but we'll get to all that later. According to official 511 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: court documents, all four of the Wagner family are considered 512 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: trigger polars, meaning each one of them had a hand 513 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: in killing the Rodents that night, which means they drove 514 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: house to house one at a time, killing eight people. 515 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: It's also been speculated that Angela Wagner was really the 516 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: mastermind of this whole plan. When you look at her picture, 517 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: for example, her mug shot, she just looks like a 518 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: regular mom that you would see at the market. She 519 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: doesn't at all fit the profile that I have in 520 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: my head of what a serial killer or a mass 521 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: murderer should look like. And if she did do this, 522 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: why did she put this plan together? Because she wanted 523 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 1: to protect her own family? And if so, the irony 524 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: is if she's found guilty, because they're all being tried separately, 525 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: she may never cross paths with her husband or her 526 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: sons ever. Again. You know, we obviously wanted to go 527 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: back and see what was the lead up, what brought 528 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: us to this point, and what was the intersection between 529 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: the Roden family and the Wagner family. We got very 530 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: curious about the relationship between Jake Wagner and Hannah Roden. 531 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 1: Here's the anonymous Wagner relative again. Jake he had got 532 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 1: involved with Hannah Roden. Hannah Roden is the middle Roden 533 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: child and murder victim. She was found dead in bed 534 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: next to her five day old baby, Kylie. She shared 535 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: a child with Jake Wagner, a two and a half 536 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: year old daughter named Sophia. Eventually, you know, they had separated. 537 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 1: In everything that they had separated, I guess on that term, 538 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: it seemed that the demise of their relationship had sparked 539 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: an ugly custody battle surround Sophia. Hannah she was, you know, 540 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: refusing to allow him to see her, to get her 541 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: or any of the family to see her, and so 542 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 1: it kind of just it got out of hand at 543 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: that point. It just set him off to the point 544 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,840 Speaker 1: where Jake he had made the comments, you know, that 545 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 1: he were going to kill her next time on the 546 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: Pikedon Massacre. Pikedon Massacre is executive produced by Stephanie Lydecker 547 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by executive 548 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 1: producer Jared Aston. Additional producing by Jeff Shane and Andrew Becker. 549 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: The Pikedon Massacre is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. 550 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 551 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 552 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:07,240 Speaker 1: Swaying Giant kelp with Sunlight streaking through, pulsing Jellies, Fuzzy 553 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 1: Sea Otters. Those are a few of the awe inspiring 554 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,840 Speaker 1: exhibits visitors can experience at the Monterey Bay Aquarium. A 555 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: critical part of the Aquarium's mission is working with our 556 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 1: communities to protect the ocean. 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