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Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 1: How does this sort of laura of Clara Phillips.

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Speaker 2: Beget Alberta's beating and death?

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Speaker 3: As the paper said at the time, it looked like

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Speaker 3: Alberta had been mauled by a tiger. And I think

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Speaker 3: the newspapers picked up on that. They always liked to

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Speaker 3: have a catchphrase for any murderer, to kind of give

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Speaker 3: it depth and breath, and I think this is what

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Speaker 3: they did with the term tiger woman.

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Speaker 1: Alberta Meadows was lying in the Los Angeles County morgue

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Speaker 1: for almost twenty four hours before she was identified just

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Speaker 1: one of several Jane does. Alberta's father, fred Tremaine, stared

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Speaker 1: down at her body and wept. He nodded to the coroner.

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Speaker 1: This was his daughter. Alberta love to laugh, to play

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Speaker 1: piano and sing for her grandparents in their modest home.

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Speaker 1: She never went to dances and she rarely socialized. She

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Speaker 1: worked a lot just to pay her bills. After Jesse's death,

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Speaker 1: it was so difficult to see her like that now,

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Speaker 1: lying on that table. Fred Tremaine was miserable and then furious.

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Speaker 1: An assistant wiped the blood from Alberta's face. He draped

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Speaker 1: her body with a white sheet. She was covered with

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Speaker 1: black welts from the hammer. Her dark hair was matted

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Speaker 1: with blood. When she was photographed, you could see her breasts.

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Speaker 1: It was such a humiliating ending for a woman who

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Speaker 1: didn't deserve any of this. Just a few hours earlier, Armor,

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Speaker 1: Phillips and his attorney had told the sheriff that Clara

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Speaker 1: murdered Alberta. Armor admitted that he left Alberta's new car

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Speaker 1: in Pomona and then he bought Clara a ticket for

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Speaker 1: the Sunset Limited train out of Los Angeles to El Paso.

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Speaker 1: The sheriff Armor if he had any other details to offer, No,

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Speaker 1: he replied, no need to mention any of his schemes

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Speaker 1: or his scams. Is he exposed as a con man

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Speaker 1: at this point.

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Speaker 3: No, because he was very good at what he did.

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Speaker 3: He covered his tracks really well. And the fact that

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Speaker 3: again handsome, well mannered, well dressed, he pretty much laid

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Speaker 3: it cool.

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Speaker 1: Sheriff William Traeger listened to Armour's story and immediately telegraphed

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Speaker 1: police in Arizona. The copy read wanted for a brutal murder.

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Speaker 1: The police needed to detain Clara Phillips for questioning. Tregger

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Speaker 1: warned investigators there that Clara was unpredictable and dangerous. Armor

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Speaker 1: wasn't a suspect yet, but he needed to stay in

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Speaker 1: the sheriff's custody until they straightened all this out. Clara

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Speaker 1: Phillips was officially on the run, but she didn't seem

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Speaker 1: to care. As the train rumbled along, she rehearsed her

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Speaker 1: new name, Clara Maguire. If anyone asked, she fiddled with

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Speaker 1: a box on her lap. She didn't seem to notice

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Speaker 1: that her real name was on the tag. She could

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Speaker 1: hear the conductor announce the next stop, Tucson, Arizona. Peggy

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Speaker 1: Caffy had not slept a bit on Wednesday night, the

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Speaker 1: night of the murder. She was petrified of Clara. As

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Speaker 1: she left her car that night, Clara told her that

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Speaker 1: she would come back by her apartment the next day

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Speaker 1: to pick up some of her things. Peggy was scared,

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Speaker 1: and she felt immense guilt, but author Claudine Burnett says

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Speaker 1: Peggy was still determined to be quiet for just a

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Speaker 1: little bit longer.

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Speaker 4: Her husband was going for a job interview, and she

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Speaker 4: didn't want him to be upset or nervous if he

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Speaker 4: knew about what had happened. It's very considerate, yes, and

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Speaker 4: he did get the job.

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Speaker 1: On Thursday afternoon, Peggy stormed into the Sheriff's office crying

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Speaker 1: and confessed it all. Armor had already told the sheriff

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Speaker 1: about the victim and the killer. Now Traeger would hear

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Speaker 1: from the only witness to the murder.

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Speaker 4: No one knew who the murder victim was until Armor

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Speaker 4: and Peggy came forward with their stories.

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Speaker 1: Thursday was a long day for Peggy Caffey because three

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Speaker 1: things happened very quickly. She spent much of the morning

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Speaker 1: in the office of LA's Chief of Police detailing what

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Speaker 1: had happened the night before. Then investigators insisted she go

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Speaker 1: with them to the scene. Peggy was soon standing on

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Speaker 1: that same dirt road, surrounded by at least fifteen men,

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Speaker 1: all in white shirts and ties and panama hats. There

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Speaker 1: were local reporters, newspaper photographers, detectives, and sheriff deputies. A

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Speaker 1: shorthand reporter took down her statement, noting each pause and

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Speaker 1: every sigh. The detectives asked Peggy to reenact the murder.

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Speaker 1: This was really painful for her. She imitated the hammer

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Speaker 1: beating to the horror of the male report watching. Peggy

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Speaker 1: was constantly on the verge of swooning. A photographer from

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Speaker 1: the La Times snapped a shot of her pointing toward

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Speaker 1: the turnoff. Prosecutors soon typed up a murder indictment for

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Speaker 1: Clara Phillips, who was still happily sitting on a train

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Speaker 1: bound for Texas after her trip to Montecito Drive. Peggy

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Speaker 1: was immediately questioned in front of a grand jury. She

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Speaker 1: offered up exhaustive details about the case. She explained how

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Speaker 1: she met Clara when they were both chorus girls. She

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Speaker 1: talked about her friend's obsession with armor and her upsetting

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Speaker 1: conversation with her neighbor. She described Clara's sneaky behavior before

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Speaker 1: the murder, how they staked out Alberta's apartment, and through

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Speaker 1: it all. Peggy insisted that she had no idea what

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Speaker 1: Clara had been planning. She questioned their friendship. Maybe Clara

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Speaker 1: had been using her all along. Peggy described every moment

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Speaker 1: of the murder. The grand jury was absolutely horrified, and

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Speaker 1: in less than an hour they formally charged Clara Phillips

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Speaker 1: with murder. There were no doubts that this was a

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Speaker 1: premeditated and heinous killing. Jurors called it the most ghastly

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Speaker 1: crime they had ever known. In the meantime, Los Angeles

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Speaker 1: police spent five hours searching for the hammerhead. Remember that

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Speaker 1: Armor had thrown it out the window near a creek

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Speaker 1: when he and Clara were driving. City and county investigators

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Speaker 1: were working together to gather evidence, but they never found

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Speaker 1: the hammerhead by Friday. The next day, the Elle press

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Speaker 1: latched onto one of the biggest stories that year. A

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Speaker 1: beautiful young widow was found brutally murdered on a nearly

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Speaker 1: deserted road outside of Los Angeles. A glamorous young starlet

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Speaker 1: was accused of beating her to death for sleeping with

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Speaker 1: her husband. An attractive chorus girl witnessed the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: The press in the nineteen twenties tended to reduce the

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Speaker 1: character of women down to how attractive they were, and

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Speaker 1: of course that still happens. Hundreds of people stormed the

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Speaker 1: undertaker's parlor to get a glimpse of Alberta's battered body.

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Speaker 1: It was so morbid and terribly disrespectful. Armer told the

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Speaker 1: press that his wife was insane. No doubt, and he

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Speaker 1: was heartbroken over the indictment. She was out of her

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Speaker 1: mind over jealousy. Clara Phillips snapped, well, not quite. This

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Speaker 1: was well planned, a devious murder and a rage killing

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Speaker 1: wrapped into one horrible mess.

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Speaker 5: Is this someone in her right mind who would do

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Speaker 5: this in front of a witness and then leave the

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Speaker 5: witness living.

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Speaker 6: I don't think there's any doubt about her being in

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Speaker 6: her right mind. She's very deliberate about what she does,

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Speaker 6: She's very determined about what she does, and then ultimately

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Speaker 6: very proud of it. None of that speaks to not

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Speaker 6: having controlling your mental faculties. She did it in a

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Speaker 6: very logical, meaningful, lines effective fashion, and that just doesn't

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Speaker 6: speak to insanity.

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Speaker 1: And a string of witnesses confirmed that she picks up

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Speaker 1: this claw hammer and asks the clerk if he thinks

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Speaker 1: this is heavy enough to kill someone? Is this not premeditated?

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Speaker 6: The conversation in and of itself certainly sets the stage

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Speaker 6: for premeditation. Definitely speaks to the state of mind that

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Speaker 6: testimony would certainly be offered as evidence to sustain a

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Speaker 6: finding of premeditation. Now you've got to convince a jeria

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Speaker 6: that that's what that conversation was about.

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Speaker 1: That would be difficult. What if she had been joking

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Speaker 1: about the hammer. Her attorney argued that it was all nonsense.

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Speaker 1: It meant nothing, and it proved nothing. The American press

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Speaker 1: relished the tragedy of Alberta Meadows. It was so sordid,

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Speaker 1: a tidy, nearly perfect Hollywood scandal. As I said earlier,

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Speaker 1: Clara Phillips seemed unconcerned about getting caught. Alberta Meadows was dead.

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Speaker 1: Peggy Caffey was sufficiently frightened and was unlikely to say anything,

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Speaker 1: and Armor would never betray Clara. He told her he

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Speaker 1: would soon join her in Texas. Just sitting in the

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Speaker 1: passenger car late Friday night, Clara showed numerous traits on

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Speaker 1: Harris's checklist. There was a failure to accept responsibility for

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Speaker 1: her own actions. There was irresponsibility, a lack of remorse

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Speaker 1: or guilt, and there was even glibness. She had casual

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Speaker 1: conversations with other passengers as the train chugged along. When

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Speaker 1: the engine pulled into the Tucson station, passengers filed off

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Speaker 1: and on. Clara heard her name and poked her head

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Speaker 1: through the curtains of her compartment she noticed several minute

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Speaker 1: suits walking quickly toward her. They stopped and flashed badges.

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Speaker 1: They asked, are you Clara Phillips. She didn't carry identification,

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Speaker 1: nor did they demand it. She smiled. Alden answered, I'm

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Speaker 1: Clara Maguire. I think you've made a mistake.

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Speaker 7: She gave a false name, which was absolutely ridiculous because

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Speaker 7: everybody knew who she was, but she insisted on this

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Speaker 7: false name.

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Speaker 1: Of course, they didn't believe her, and they looked at

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Speaker 1: her tag on her box, which read Clara Phillips. There

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Speaker 1: were papers inside her suitcase that noted her real name.

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Speaker 1: Not smart, but remember that people with psychopathy are often

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Speaker 1: less intelligent than they seem, and that mistake was indicative

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Speaker 1: of someone who lacked planning another trade of psychopaths. Clara

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Speaker 1: yawned and said to the men, I'm tired, but she

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Speaker 1: was willing to go back to La with the sheriff

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Speaker 1: when he arrived the next day. The telegraph to the

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Speaker 1: sheriff said, missus Phillips calm and willing to return with you.

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Speaker 1: The next day, Sheriff Trager and his wife, who was

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Speaker 1: a deputy sheriff, and two reporters arrived to the jail

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Speaker 1: where Clara had spent the night. She sat in the

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Speaker 1: women's wing under close guard. The sheriff greeted her and

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Speaker 1: wondered if she would cause him any trouble on the

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Speaker 1: trip back. Clara looked at the sheriff and smiled. He

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Speaker 1: asked her name, and she again replied Clara Maguire. She

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Speaker 1: continued to deny that she was Clara Phillips, that is

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Speaker 1: until the sheriff pulled out a note.

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Speaker 7: The way they got her to cop to who she

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Speaker 7: was was that there was a telegram or letter ostensibly

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Speaker 7: coming to the jail from Armor Phillips, but was only

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Speaker 7: to be opened, only to be opened by Clara Phillips.

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Speaker 7: So she dropped the pretense of the fictitious name and said, no,

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Speaker 7: I'm Clara. I'm want to read this.

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Speaker 1: It read, My dear baby, everything is for the best.

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Speaker 1: Come back with the sheriff. You will be treated kindly.

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Speaker 1: Your mother and sister are doing fine. Clara ignored her

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Speaker 1: need for self preservation because now her goal was to

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Speaker 1: be reunited with Armor. Someone with psychopathy might actually put

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Speaker 1: themselves in danger because they're so focused on that one goal.

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Speaker 1: Clara seemed unconcerned as she sat and read magazines, but

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Speaker 1: now she was worried that Armor was in trouble and

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Speaker 1: she needed to see him as soon as possible. Clara said,

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Speaker 1: I'll go back to Los Angeles and to my husband.

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Speaker 4: She was very insistent that if something was happening to Armor,

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Speaker 4: she had to protect him as well as herself.

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Speaker 1: And this was a good example of Clara's fixation on

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Speaker 1: her husband. No matter what, she would protect him. On

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Speaker 1: the overnight train back to La late Saturday night, a

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Speaker 1: few things happened. The sheriff immediately began gathering evidence, and

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Speaker 1: Clara's great nephew, Daniel Phillips says that Traeger had plenty

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Speaker 1: of evidence.

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Speaker 2: When she killed Alberta. She didn't just kill her.

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Speaker 3: She also took her jewelry and any other negotiable property

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Speaker 3: as well, and they found it on her when they

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Speaker 3: picked her up in Tussa. That's one thing. I didn't

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Speaker 3: kill her, but I had all her jewelry. Yeah, try

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Speaker 3: to figure that one out.

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Speaker 1: The Los Angeles Press also found out that she was

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Speaker 1: returning on the train, and they gathered at the station

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Speaker 1: at one thirty Sunday afternoon. Actually it wasn't just LA Press.

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Speaker 1: Media from across the country joined the mob, and someone

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Speaker 1: else was at the train station too, Peggy Caffey.

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Speaker 3: She said, okay, this is where it ends. You know,

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Speaker 3: I am not going to be dragged into this. She

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Speaker 3: did what I think Armor did finally, which was tell

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Speaker 3: the truth. And she was the one that I think

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Speaker 3: spoke to the Alberta's murder. If she hadn't a stepped up,

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Speaker 3: who would have It would have been Clara's word against

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Speaker 3: everybody else. She could have probably had him convinced that

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Speaker 3: Alberta took the hammer and beat herself to death.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes she was.

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Speaker 1: As Clara stepped off the train in her long dress

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Speaker 1: and stylish brown straw hat, she was welcomed by the media.

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Speaker 1: She grinned more than she had in the past month.

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Speaker 1: She nearly glowed on the arm of Sheriff Trager. The

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Speaker 1: press yelled out questions.

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Speaker 7: Newspaper people are there to meet the train and it

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Speaker 7: was a crowd scene. It was like a Hollywood celebrity

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Speaker 7: had just come back to town. One of the reporters said

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Speaker 7: something really interesting about it. He said that when she

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Speaker 7: got off the train, she kind of had this sashade

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Speaker 7: or walk like the chorus girl she'd been. This was

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Speaker 7: her moment, this was her celebrity. This is decades before

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Speaker 7: Andy Warhol in your Fifteen Minutes of Fame.

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Speaker 1: I think that's what she was feeling.

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Speaker 7: She's smiling in those photos. This is not a woman

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Speaker 7: brought back with her head hung low and chains. She's

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Speaker 7: walking in she's smiling. I don't think she thinks she's

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Speaker 7: got a care in the world.

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Speaker 1: The men in three piece suits put down their cigars

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Speaker 1: and began to lead her to a nearby car. She

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Speaker 1: waved to the crowd.

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Speaker 3: It was almost kind of like, all these people are

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Speaker 3: I mean to greet me and wish me well, and

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Speaker 3: we're behind you, you know, all this kind of stuff

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Speaker 3: that really did give her the opinion that she was

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Speaker 3: going to beat this. She had notoriety. It's kind of

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Speaker 3: like when you're raising children, sometimes negative attention is better

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Speaker 3: than no attention at all. And up until then, she

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00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,360
Speaker 3: had not had anything in her life that had the

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Speaker 3: notoriety that she had in what she had done.

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Speaker 1: And this event really foreshadowed how the rest of Clara's

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Speaker 1: story unfolds. As she walked to the car, Clara saw

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Speaker 1: Peggy Caffey. She smiled and said, well, Peggy, I'm here.

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Speaker 1: They got me. It was so odd and off putting,

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Speaker 1: especially to her former friend. While Clara was in the

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles County jail, she got to see Armor. Finally

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00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,920
Speaker 1: she smiled at him. Jaylor's noted how she constantly touched

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Speaker 1: his face and his hair and his shoulders, as if

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Speaker 1: he were too good to be true.

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Speaker 3: One that turned her in, But he was also the

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Speaker 3: one that got her on the train, and she forgave

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Speaker 3: him that. She never ever held that against him. The

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Speaker 3: whole relationship was that he realized what he was doing

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Speaker 3: was wrong, so that's why told on her. But it

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Speaker 3: was okay with her as long as he had done

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Speaker 3: nothing to change the relationship.

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Speaker 2: You know, she was still married to him.

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Speaker 1: Clara told reporters that he was the only man she

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Speaker 1: had ever loved. She didn't care that he had betrayed

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Speaker 1: her to save himself. The press called it the most

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Speaker 1: appalling crime in the history of Los Angeles, but then

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Speaker 1: they began to churn out stories about Clara's charm and

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Speaker 1: her looks and her possible innocence. Some reporters even criticized

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Speaker 1: Armor for turning her in.

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Speaker 7: He actually took heat and the press for it because

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Speaker 7: they said, what kind of husband would rat his wife out?

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Speaker 7: She's a vicious killer, you know, and he's got some

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00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,000
Speaker 7: sense of self preservation, so that's what kind of husband

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Speaker 7: would rat his wife out.

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Speaker 1: Some of the press not only questioned his morals, but

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Speaker 1: also his looks. Claudeine Burnett says that a female reporter

285
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:08,120
Speaker 1: asked in her column whether Armor Phillips was even worth killing.

286
00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,400
Speaker 4: For looking at him. She just could not find anything

287
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,439
Speaker 4: at all appealing about him as a woman, and couldn't

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00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,320
Speaker 4: imagine why a person like Clara, who the press was

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00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,280
Speaker 4: describing as being, you know, attractive and petite into the

290
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,480
Speaker 4: latest fashions, could ever be attracted to this man.

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Speaker 1: His great nephew, Daniel Phillips, disagrees she was beautiful and dynamic.

292
00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,520
Speaker 5: He wanted that public image he was good looking, although

293
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Speaker 5: I will say the newspapers really said, this sad sack

294
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Speaker 5: of a man is not worth eating to death a woman.

295
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Speaker 3: But that's that's not fair, that's not fair.

296
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Speaker 2: Yes, he was very handsome.

297
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Speaker 1: Late that summer, Peggy caffe was still nervous, even though

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Speaker 1: Clara seemed to forgive her at the train station, and

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00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,520
Speaker 1: doctor Craig Newman says that Peggy had reason to be

300
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,520
Speaker 1: concerned because she still served a purpose to Clara, though

301
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:02,880
Speaker 1: she didn't know it yet.

302
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,439
Speaker 8: She probably thought of this other person was needed for

303
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,159
Speaker 8: some parasitic reason, I need this person to do things,

304
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,200
Speaker 8: but didn't sort of finish the equation, or didn't care

305
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,680
Speaker 8: that the other person saw it, or wanted a witness,

306
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:16,280
Speaker 8: or it was a bit of a setup.

307
00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:22,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. Clara was arrested in July and pleaded not guilty.

308
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Speaker 1: As she stood there for her mugshot in the Los

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00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:29,720
Speaker 1: Angeles County jail, she smirked. Her trial began three months

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Speaker 1: later on October twentieth, nineteen twenty two. It was yet

311
00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:37,280
Speaker 1: another sensational trial focused on Hollywood players, even if Clara

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00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:38,800
Speaker 1: was just a minor player.

313
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Speaker 3: She stayed in jail during her trial, which was covered

314
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,880
Speaker 3: every freaking day by the papers, and all the papers

315
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Speaker 3: in all the town's both largest fall across the country

316
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,080
Speaker 3: and around the world were picking up the story.

317
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Speaker 1: Clara's case was just one of several high profile scandals

318
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,560
Speaker 1: in the nineteen twenties covered with Hollywood glamour, including a

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00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:04,439
Speaker 1: murder that happened eight months earlier.

320
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Speaker 7: William Desmond Taylor was a director. Nice looking guy, had

321
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,440
Speaker 7: been an actor. He was mysteriously murdered. He was shot

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00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,879
Speaker 7: to death in his apartment. There were a couple of

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00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:18,560
Speaker 7: major suspects. One was Mary Miles Mentor. She was an actress.

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Speaker 7: She had a crush on him that wouldn't quit. She

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00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,439
Speaker 7: was a teenager, I think, and he was maybe in

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Speaker 7: his forties at the time. She had a mad crush

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Speaker 7: on him. Did they have an affair, I don't know.

328
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Speaker 7: It doesn't really matter. He ended up dead. It's been

329
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,439
Speaker 7: thought that perhaps Mary's mother was having an affair with

330
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Speaker 7: him and murdered him. It's not clear. It's again one

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Speaker 7: of those really interesting LA cases, something I think that

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00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,560
Speaker 7: could really only happen in LA, and it is an

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00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,440
Speaker 7: unsolved homicide to this day.

334
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Speaker 1: In American Sherlock, I write about the nineteen twenty one

335
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:55,200
Speaker 1: manslaughter trial of silent film icon Fatty Arbuckle. The actor

336
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,960
Speaker 1: was accused of killing an actress during a raucous party

337
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,399
Speaker 1: in San Francisco. He was eventually acquitted, and rightly so,

338
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:06,719
Speaker 1: because there wasn't enough reliable evidence. Unfortunately, the forensic scientist

339
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,000
Speaker 1: at the center of my story was the cause of

340
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:14,159
Speaker 1: Fatty Arbuckle's problems in court, so a year later, the

341
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:18,360
Speaker 1: American press was primed for another sleazy story, and at

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00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:24,000
Speaker 1: Clara Phillips trial, they certainly got one. Newspaper reporters noted

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00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,440
Speaker 1: that Armer sat behind his wife constantly smiling at her.

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Speaker 3: He was at her trial every day, and he was

345
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,960
Speaker 3: trying to bring the best legal counsel to her defense

346
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:37,399
Speaker 3: that he possibly could. He was borrowing money. He was

347
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 3: still on the griff, so he had stay involved with that.

348
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Speaker 3: He was also driving a cab.

349
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Speaker 1: But Armor's support might have also been misleading to Clara.

350
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Speaker 3: All of those things he was doing for her, and

351
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Speaker 3: that gave her comfort that, Okay, what I did to

352
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Speaker 3: Alberta probably fixed it, but the only problem is I'm

353
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,040
Speaker 3: up on a murder charge.

354
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Speaker 1: Daniel Phillips says that Armor wasn't as about a guy

355
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 1: as he was depicted in the press.

356
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Speaker 3: I'm not saying he was an angel, but in this

357
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:06,400
Speaker 3: case I think he was wronged.

358
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Speaker 1: During the trial, the family of Alberta Meadows glared at

359
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,560
Speaker 1: both Armor and Clara. Alberta had been criticized in the

360
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 1: press by Clara's supporters for her supposed affair with her husband.

361
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:22,240
Speaker 1: Alberta's father was livid, and he even threatened Armour's life

362
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:23,200
Speaker 1: in the courtroom.

363
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 3: She had a good, solid family around her that was

364
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,879
Speaker 3: certainly evident in the trial. Had a strong relationship with

365
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 3: her father and her sisters. I just got the impression

366
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Speaker 3: that she wasn't the kind of person to be a homewrecker.

367
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 1: That's absolutely true, according to Alberta's family. In fact, her

368
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,760
Speaker 1: younger sister, Genora Tremaine, had visited Missus McElroy just a

369
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,920
Speaker 1: month before the murder and left upset. Clara's neighbor whispered

370
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 1: that she believed Alberta and Armor were indeed having an affair.

371
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,439
Speaker 1: Genora was livid. She and her sister had been very close,

372
00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,239
Speaker 1: so Genora knew everything about Alberta. Alberta had told their

373
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,160
Speaker 1: grandmother that there was nothing improper going on between them.

374
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 1: Armor and Alberta were just acquaintances, and actually Genora said

375
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 1: she hated him, which was probably news to Armor. Genora

376
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 1: told Missus McElroy that Alberta actually felt sorry for Clara

377
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,240
Speaker 1: because Armor was a philanderer, and Alberta was grateful that

378
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 1: her own husband Jesse, had been faithful. Alberta had cherished

379
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 1: their relationship before his death earlier that year, but missus

380
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,439
Speaker 1: McElroy didn't believe any of it. Genora turned and left.

381
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,400
Speaker 1: She was sure that the neighborhood busybody would be spreading

382
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 1: rumors about her too if she stayed there any longer.

383
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 1: In October, Clara's attorneys settled on a defense of temporary insanity,

384
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 1: a rage killing sparked by extreme jealousy. As Clara sat

385
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 1: at the defendant's table, she often seemed to relish the attention,

386
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,160
Speaker 1: but other times she seemed bored until her best friend

387
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 1: took the stand. The last time Peggy had seen Claire Clara,

388
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 1: Clara was smiling at her. Peggy had actually identified her

389
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,679
Speaker 1: for police at the La County jail after Clara arrived

390
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 1: at the train. Once again, Clara was all smiles. When

391
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: Peggy Caffey sat on the witness stand, the jury of

392
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: nine men and three women eyed her, She looked frightened

393
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,880
Speaker 1: and meek, not at all sure of herself. Peggy began

394
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,679
Speaker 1: describing the murder, just as she had in July to

395
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: the grand jury, but during that testimony Clara wasn't in

396
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,120
Speaker 1: the room to hear it. This time felt very different.

397
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 4: She said in the trial that she could have gotten

398
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 4: out and tried to stop them, but she was too

399
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 4: stunned by what was happening.

400
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 1: Peggy spent almost six hours on the stand, and during

401
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 1: that time Clara seemed to maintain her composure. Reporters watched Clara.

402
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 1: She straightened up in her chair and pursed her lips.

403
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 1: As Peggy's testimony went on, Clara's breathing got heavier, and

404
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 1: when Peggy described their trip to the five and dime store,

405
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: Clara lost it.

406
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 4: Clara threatened Pegy. During the trial.

407
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: Clara jumped up, gripped the table and demanded that Peggy

408
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 1: tell the truth. Peggy flinched, and so did much of

409
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: the jury. The reporters scribbled on their.

410
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 4: Notepads, and when Peggy said what had happened, that was

411
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,880
Speaker 4: what drove Clara mad, and she came forward and said, Pegy,

412
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,199
Speaker 4: tell the truth. You are the one that killed her

413
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 4: with the hammer. Peggy was taken aback, but she's stuck

414
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 4: by her story that it had been Clara. But the

415
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 4: whole thing drove Clara wild.

416
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: This was a different side of Clara Phillips, a stunning

417
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,879
Speaker 1: side that few had seen before. This can happen with

418
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: psychopaths under pressure, particularly during a trial. There's a moment

419
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: when they lose their composure, show extreme anger, and then

420
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: the jury sees the killer's real character behind their glibness.

421
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 1: It happened during Ted Bundy's trial when he was sentenced

422
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: to death and he screamed, tell the jury there. And

423
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: it happened in court with a different murderer too, John

424
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: Albert Gardner killed two young women in California in two

425
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: thousand and nine. In twenty ten, Gardner attempted to assault

426
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 1: and kill another woman, but she fought back and broke

427
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: his nose. When that woman addressed the court, she said

428
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: she'd like to ask him how his nose is. Gardner

429
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 1: became quietly enraged and angrily whispered to his attorney, she

430
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: didn't hit me. She's a liar. And one more example

431
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: of a crumbling facade. When a female prosecutor in France

432
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: trapped serial killer Gee George on the stand in a

433
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: simple lie, he all but confessed to being a murderer.

434
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: When he realized what he did, he became enraged on

435
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 1: the stand, screaming at her and at the court. His

436
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: facade as this charming gentleman disappeared. Some psychopaths simply can't

437
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: hide who they really are, even if it's revealed just

438
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: a moment. And that's what the courtrooms saw with Clara

439
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: Phillips in nineteen twenty two. It was easy to see

440
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 1: how she could transform from a cheerful housewife to the

441
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 1: tiger woman. And Peggy's reaction wasn't meek, which was surprising.

442
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,360
Speaker 1: She shuddered, then grabbed the arms of the witness chair

443
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: and shouted back. Clara Phillips bought that hammer. Spectators muttered,

444
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 1: and the court officer called for order. It was so

445
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: difficult to believe that such a pretty happy woman was

446
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 1: capable of murder, but clearly Clara was. And then another surprise,

447
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: Clara Phillips asked to testify. She wanted to tell her

448
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 1: side of the story.

449
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 4: Clara's defense was temporary insanity. It was brought out at

450
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 4: the trial that her father was declared mentally unbalanced, that

451
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 4: her brother had mental hallucinations, and that there was a

452
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 4: history of mental illness in the family. The lawyer also

453
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 4: pointed out that Clara had the mentality of a young child.

454
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: But when Clara took the stand in grand fashion, she

455
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: stunned just about everyone in the courtroom. She certainly didn't

456
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: seem like a young child. When she sat on the

457
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 1: stand recounting the most traumatic night of her life, she

458
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 1: calmly detailed how Peggy Caffey was the killer, not her.

459
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: Clara was frequently composed, but softly cried occasionally as if

460
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: on cue. Female reporters noted her cunning, her ability to manipulate,

461
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 1: but the men seemed to recognize none of that.

462
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 6: To this day, martyrs committed by women are very rare.

463
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: Clara made eye contact with all of the jury, but

464
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: especially the nine men. She looked attractive in her dress

465
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: and well hated, but her testimony about her best friend

466
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: was simply vicious. She said that when Peggy found out

467
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: about the affair, she defended Clara's honor her best friend.

468
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: She blamed Peggy. Why would Peggy have done this?

469
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,719
Speaker 2: According to Clara, it's a misdirection.

470
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 3: A lot of times with folks that narcissistic psychopaths, they

471
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 3: tried to misdirect and reflect what they've done onto somebody else.

472
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 3: And I think that's what she was doing. It wasn't me,

473
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 3: it was Peggy, and she did all of these things.

474
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 3: She was there, she was the witness, and that could

475
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 3: have been. Ultimately, what her motive was to have Peggy

476
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 3: along someone to blame, so there was enough crazy there

477
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 3: for her to do it. There was enough cunning for

478
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 3: her to come up with ways. Well, if this happens,

479
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 3: I can always blame Peggy.

480
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: Clara looked at the jury and explained what happened. Right

481
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: before Peggy beat Alberta to death. Alberta had denied the affair,

482
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: but Peggy screamed, Clara, what do you mean to tell

483
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: me when you're going to let her get away with that?

484
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: You know good and well that Alberta is lying to you.

485
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 1: Clara's story was emotional and extensive. She was very convincing.

486
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: She said that Alberta finally admitted the affair to both

487
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: the women, and there was a fight, and Peggy had

488
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: tried to defend Clara by beating Alberta to death. It

489
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: was a twisted tale that seemed believable. Peggy had bought

490
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: the hammer, not her, and it was Peggy who had

491
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: lured Alberta to the hillside. When Clara confronted Alberta with

492
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: the affair, the women fought, and when Peggy saw that

493
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: Alberta was winning, she jumped out of the car with

494
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: the hammer. Peggy was a good friend. She wanted to

495
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: protect Clara, so it was Peggy who beat Alberta Meadows

496
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: to death. Clara said she had no idea that her

497
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: friend was capable of murder. Her great nephew, Daniel Phillips

498
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: says this story was typical Clara Phillips.

499
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 3: Once they got to Clara's testimony, she got up there

500
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 3: and thought, I can beat this.

501
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: How what does she do?

502
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 3: She gets up there and puts on a show, and

503
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 3: the the show is it wasn't me, It was really Peggy.

504
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 3: Peggy was the one that did all of this.

505
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: Except Peggy Cafy just didn't seem like the kind of

506
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: woman who would be that assertive. She was so meek.

507
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: On the stand, Clara watched the jury, especially the men.

508
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: She cried over all the neighborhood gossip, especially the neighbor's

509
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: accusations both against her and Armor for cheating. Clara blotted

510
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: her face with a handkerchief.

511
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 2: She wasn't very smart, but she was cunning.

512
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: What's the difference.

513
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 3: The difference is being very smart, you know, with book

514
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 3: learning and stuff like that, that's one thing. But being

515
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 3: cunning means you know how to deal with people at

516
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 3: the basic level.

517
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,959
Speaker 1: But remember Clara was claiming temporary insanity.

518
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 4: Her attorney pointed that out, and how he wove this

519
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 4: around Pegy was that he said that because of this

520
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 4: mental imbalance in the family and her intelligence being so low,

521
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 4: that she could not have thought about murdering Alberta was

522
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 4: Pegy's idea.

523
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: Clara's family was in the courtroom sitting behind her the

524
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: whole time. Clara's mother and her two sisters were her

525
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: steadfast supporters and co conspirators in a way.

526
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 3: There was numerous conversations between her and her sisters, and

527
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 3: I think Mom and Henry, her brother, were divorced from this.

528
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: This wasn't just an insanity plea. It was very specific.

529
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 3: It was the three sisters that kind of put their

530
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 3: heads together and came up with this hogwash, and.

531
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 5: The attorney claimed it was psychosis by epilepsi.

532
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 3: So back in those days, very little was known at

533
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 3: mental illness and of epilepsy. So she took full advantage

534
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 3: of that, and her family took full advantage of that

535
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 3: trying to get her off. She knew how to play

536
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 3: to the newspapers. She started picking out certain newspaper people

537
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 3: that she knew that could possibly it'll help her.

538
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 5: And you believe that her family, because of this sort

539
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 5: of strong law and this codependent cohesive unit, really sort

540
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 5: of banda together to create a narrative that would support

541
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 5: you know, a little bit more of like an insanity pleague.

542
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 2: M h exactly is that more manipulation?

543
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, because again one of the other things that

544
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 3: you couldn't get around is that she's pleading in sanity.

545
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 2: Well, why is she doing that if she didn't do it?

546
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: Good point, did Peggy really kill Alberta or did Clara

547
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: do it because she had a mental break. Didn't Clara

548
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:34,719
Speaker 1: have to choose between the two? Apparently not. During the trial,

549
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: both of her sisters testified to her past violent behavior,

550
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: how she would go into a trance and bleed from

551
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 1: the mouth and then lash out for no reason. But

552
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: Clara's great nephew thinks this was all a ruse.

553
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 3: I couldn't find anything in my research on her where

554
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 3: she had health problems.

555
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 2: She could turn.

556
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 3: Situations to her own advantage. Again, she turned it on,

557
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 3: she turned it off, she turned it on. It was

558
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 3: a matter of whatever is going to get her either

559
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 3: out of a situation or be something that she could

560
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 3: take advantage of that would bring her fame, fortune, wealth, whatever.

561
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: So you don't think she was an epileptic.

562
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 3: Absolutely not, And I'll kind of give you some background.

563
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 3: My wife is an epileptic, and epileptics do not become violent, okay,

564
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 3: when they have a seizure. The seizure is something that

565
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 3: completely destabilizes her. Sometimes they can be bad enough that

566
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 3: she falls and probably incapacity for about five ten minutes,

567
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 3: and then it takes her while kind of recovering get back.

568
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: As I said earlier, doctors say that epileptics are far

569
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: more likely to hurt themselves than someone else. Blood is

570
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: thicker than water. I don't really like cliches, but boy,

571
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: this one really fits this story. The Weaver family met

572
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: almost constantly with Clara and her attorney. Clara's mother and

573
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: sisters schemed about the witnesses who were impugning her character.

574
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: It's remarkable how intimidating three women and a murderess could be,

575
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 1: and that's exactly what they wanted. Former investigator Glenn Martin

576
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: says that some families will do anything to protect each other.

577
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 6: They'll come in and tell anything to anybody in order

578
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 6: to try and liberate or reduce the impact on their

579
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,919
Speaker 6: family member who's a defendant in an ostensibly a death

580
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 6: penalty criminal case. I think that's what was going on

581
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 6: in the night Stocker case. Richard Ramirez's father came out

582
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 6: to court and testified as an alibi witness. Oh, he

583
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 6: couldn't have done this. He was with me in Texas well,

584
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 6: very very talented investigators and had headed him off at

585
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 6: the pass. And they knew for a fact that dad

586
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 6: had taken a witness stand and lied and were able

587
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,760
Speaker 6: to refute it with a news reporter.

588
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: Clara's trial lasted about a month with almost continuous press coverage.

589
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 1: Her sister, Ola May, made sure that reporters heard Clara's

590
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: side of the store. She said that Armor and Clara

591
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: had never been happy. He was a cheater and a liar.

592
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: If Clara had committed any sin, it was idolizing Armor.

593
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 1: Clara's mother murmured, my poor little girl, I know how

594
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 1: you have suffered, and I know you didn't do it.

595
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: Even Clara's mongrel dog Foxy, was miserable. Ola May said

596
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 1: she would howl constantly looking for Clara in the window

597
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 1: because she was missed by the family. So much. Clara

598
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: was such a loving person. According to her sister, it

599
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: was all very dramatic and perhaps convincing. After closing arguments,

600
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 1: the jury retired to deliberate on November sixteenth, nineteen twenty two,

601
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: and the stakes were incredibly high for Clara Phillips because

602
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,760
Speaker 1: if jurors were turned with a verdict of first degree murder,

603
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:51,720
Speaker 1: she could get a death sentence.

604
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 6: There was no nonsense going on here in the nineteen twenties. Again,

605
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 6: another reason for a family member to come in and

606
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 6: try and lessen this because.

607
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: They were scared she might be executed.

608
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 6: I would think she was in jeopardy of that.

609
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 1: But Daniel Phillips believes that none of that mattered to Clara.

610
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 1: She was either oblivious to the risks or she didn't care.

611
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: As long as armor stood by her side.

612
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 3: It just really didn't impact her. As far as she

613
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 3: had no empathy, she had no appreciation for really the

614
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 3: depth of the problem that she had created.

615
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: And Glenn Martin says that there was another choice for

616
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: the jury, a very important one.

617
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 6: As an investigator, I would certainly want prosecution and urge

618
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 6: prosecution to file a first degree murder charge, but I

619
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 6: also want the option of returning a second degree verdic

620
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 6: because you don't want to put all your eggs on

621
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 6: one basket and have somebody go free, because you think

622
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 6: that a jury is so certain they're going to take

623
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 6: this statement in this testimony and run with it.

624
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: So now jurors had to decide who they believed, the meek,

625
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: dowdy friend Peggy Caffey, who said she was just there

626
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: by accident, or would they believe if the glamorous, charming,

627
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 1: even flirtatious Clara Phillips. Her attorney, argued that she wasn't

628
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 1: bright enough to plan the murder. It was all Peggy

629
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: Caffy's idea. Reporters were critical of Peggy, which wasn't really helpful.

630
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: One article read, poor little Peggy just a little chorus

631
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: girl in a frightful red hat encircled with crownlike feathers.

632
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: But Clara Phillips presented like a fashion model. Remember that

633
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: there were nine men on the jury and just three women.

634
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: The men had the majority. But maybe the men would

635
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: see through her act, and perhaps she had also swayed

636
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: some of the female jurors. Maybe they would feel some

637
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: empathy for a woman who had been betrayed. By her

638
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: own husband. If the jury decided it was first degree murder,

639
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: Clara could be hanged or she could receive life in prison.

640
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: But if they thought it was second degree murder, Clara

641
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: might get away with just a few years, or she

642
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 1: could simply walk away that same day with an acquittal.

643
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: What is the risk of a jury acquitting her? What

644
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 1: is the risk to society potentially oh acquitting her?

645
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 7: At the total disaster, this woman was a danger to

646
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 7: herself and others. Maybe not so much yourself, She was

647
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 7: definitely a clearly demonstrably a danger to others.

648
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: And if she were acquitted, she could turn violent toward anyone.

649
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 1: But there had been only one witness to the murder

650
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,320
Speaker 1: of Alberta Meadows, and if Clara Phillips walked away from jail,

651
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: that witness could be in danger. Peggy Caffe wasn't allowed

652
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: to leave Los Angeles while the jury deliberated in Clara's case,

653
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: but Peggy was scared and she was already looking for

654
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 1: a way out. On the next episode of tenfold War, Wicked.

655
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 7: Man, I think found it difficult to believe that a

656
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 7: woman was really capable that you could actually have committed

657
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 7: that crime. There had to have been some other explanation.

658
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 3: The whole operation had to have someone that could be trusted,

659
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 3: that was loyal to Clara, and that was Adam.

660
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 2: She was never going to sell her out.

661
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 6: Somebody heard, somebody saw, somebody knew, and then they remained

662
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 6: mute about it, not having anybody ratch out as equally

663
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 6: as interesting.

664
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 2: Right or wrong.

665
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 3: It is blood, blood is thicker than water, all of

666
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 3: those things that you hear all the time.

667
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 2: In their case, I think that was loyalty gone wrong.

668
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 1: My new book, All That Is Wicked is available for

669
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Speaker 1: pre order now in hardback and ebooks. More information on

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Speaker 1: the audiobook later. All That Is Wicked is based on

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Speaker 1: our first season of tenfold More Wicked. You might think

672
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Speaker 1: you know the whole story of killer Edward Ruloff's crimes,

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Speaker 1: but there's so much more. My book American Sherlock is

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Speaker 1: also available. This has been an exactly right tenfold more.

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Speaker 1: Media production producers Jason Whaling, Alexis Mrosi and Laura Sobole.

676
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: Sound designer Eric Friend, composer Curtis Heath, artwork Nick Toga.

677
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 1: Executive produce users are Georgia Hardstark, Karen Kilgarriff, and Danielle Kramer.

678
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Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at tenfold more Wicked,

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Speaker 1: and on Twitter at tenfold more. And if you know

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Speaker 1: of a historical true crime that could use some attention,

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Speaker 1: email us at info at tenfoldmoremedia dot com. Subscribe now

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Speaker 1: on Amazon Music, Stitcher, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you like

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Speaker 1: to listen