1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,720
Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the host, guests,

2
00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:07,200
Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

3
00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,559
Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

4
00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,840
Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

5
00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,400
Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Wednesday, August twenty seventh, and listen,

6
00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:30,160
Speaker 2: we have a stacked night of headlines. I'm Stephanie Leidecker

7
00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,600
Speaker 2: and I'm here with Body Moven and Courtney Armstrong. And

8
00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,280
Speaker 2: before we go any further, we just have to say

9
00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,120
Speaker 2: that our hearts are of course with all of those

10
00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:43,800
Speaker 2: in Minneapolis tonight host these horrific shootings that have happened today.

11
00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:45,839
Speaker 2: We will get to that later in the show, but

12
00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,560
Speaker 2: you know, first we just have to say it out loud.

13
00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,680
Speaker 2: We are sending all of our prayers and thoughts and

14
00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:55,360
Speaker 2: love to Minneapolis tonight, and I know you all share

15
00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,080
Speaker 2: that sentiment. You know, later in the show, like I said,

16
00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:00,440
Speaker 2: we will be talking about that, and we're also going

17
00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,960
Speaker 2: to discuss this other case in California. What is the

18
00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:08,160
Speaker 2: story with baby Emmanuel? There are new updates we're unpacking

19
00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,440
Speaker 2: those as well. Also, you know, the Son of Sam

20
00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:13,720
Speaker 2: not to switch gears in a weird way, but it

21
00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,959
Speaker 2: is our first official What are we going to call it? Kids?

22
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,399
Speaker 2: We're gonna true crime and show. So I know that

23
00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,319
Speaker 2: seems like a strange transition, but maybe we all need it.

24
00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,000
Speaker 2: We've all been watching the Son of Sam conversations with

25
00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,040
Speaker 2: you know a Killer, so hopefully you've been watching too,

26
00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:31,520
Speaker 2: and if you have, we want to hear from you.

27
00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,840
Speaker 2: Eight eight eight three one crime. Please jump in, tell

28
00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,520
Speaker 2: us your thoughts, give us your opinions. We'll be doing

29
00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,200
Speaker 2: this all the time. So this is our first official.

30
00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,679
Speaker 2: But first, you know, let's start with a talkback because listen,

31
00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,280
Speaker 2: last night was Talk Back Tuesday and we had so

32
00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,840
Speaker 2: many talkbacks about so many of the topics, and of

33
00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,760
Speaker 2: course Idaho Brian Coburger that always gets so many, So

34
00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:56,720
Speaker 2: let's start with that.

35
00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:01,200
Speaker 3: First, hey all, step from Vamagan I just hilarious and

36
00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:03,880
Speaker 3: had to share this with y'all. I didn't get to

37
00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:07,320
Speaker 3: listen to Talk Back Tuesday Live with y'all. I had

38
00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:11,839
Speaker 3: my grand bebey. But anyway, y'all were doing the talk

39
00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,359
Speaker 3: backs and Annsley came on one of your one of

40
00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,200
Speaker 3: the callers that they call in a lot often and

41
00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,480
Speaker 3: when y'all were. She was like, Hey, it's Ansley, and

42
00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:25,080
Speaker 3: I was like, Annsley, Like, I just feel so a

43
00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:29,200
Speaker 3: part of the team. Like I'm like, I'm talking to

44
00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:30,120
Speaker 3: Ansley myself.

45
00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:30,600
Speaker 2: Anyway.

46
00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,040
Speaker 4: I know it's random, but I just had to share

47
00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:33,840
Speaker 4: that with y'all.

48
00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:39,200
Speaker 2: Listen, degrees of Ansley right now, and I maybe we

49
00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,560
Speaker 2: can hook stuff in Ainsley up and they can like

50
00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:43,480
Speaker 2: become pen pals, you know what I mean. Like, I

51
00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,240
Speaker 2: think I love you to do that. You know what

52
00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,800
Speaker 2: that means community, and I think that is the spirit

53
00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,320
Speaker 2: of this. None of us have all the answers, right,

54
00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,480
Speaker 2: We are all just trying our best. We get to

55
00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,960
Speaker 2: be here every night or morning whenever you're listening, whether

56
00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,280
Speaker 2: on the podcast or live, but here we are. We're

57
00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,720
Speaker 2: trying to at least have this convo together. So thank

58
00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:04,360
Speaker 2: you so much.

59
00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,160
Speaker 5: That was the perfect means wow, because it's a perfect

60
00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,480
Speaker 5: palate cleanser.

61
00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,600
Speaker 6: We've we're kind of down, so we kind of needed

62
00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:17,040
Speaker 6: that burst of you know, that infusion of positivity, right.

63
00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,720
Speaker 2: And we've been covering some heavy stuff, right. We even

64
00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:21,440
Speaker 2: discussed this and by the way, if you want to

65
00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,400
Speaker 2: add to this conversation and kind of share what you

66
00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:26,920
Speaker 2: think we should be doing and covering tonight. It's a

67
00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,840
Speaker 2: tough one, you know. Listen, we've all been through it.

68
00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,560
Speaker 2: Everyone's having long days, hopefully beautiful ones, but you know,

69
00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:35,920
Speaker 2: in the real world, it's a little muddy out there.

70
00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,240
Speaker 2: And you know, listen, we're talking about school shooters and

71
00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,480
Speaker 2: you know, children who may have been you know, put

72
00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,400
Speaker 2: into harm's way by their parents. This is tough stuff.

73
00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,400
Speaker 2: And on the one hand, we can't not acknowledge it

74
00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,640
Speaker 2: and really give it it to do proper honor. And

75
00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,520
Speaker 2: on the other it's tough stuff.

76
00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:55,040
Speaker 3: Right.

77
00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,040
Speaker 2: I want to talk about, you know, killer Granny that

78
00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,400
Speaker 2: you're going to get to very soon. I know this

79
00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:06,000
Speaker 2: Granny is so interesting, but again it's all sort of heavy.

80
00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,800
Speaker 2: So if we're not handling this correctly, can you let

81
00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,880
Speaker 2: us know? Yeah, let me tell you about killer Granny,

82
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:12,280
Speaker 2: all right.

83
00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:17,040
Speaker 6: So Dan Markle's twenty fourteen murder was amid like a

84
00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,359
Speaker 6: really bitter custody battle, and it led to charges against

85
00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:25,000
Speaker 6: his former mother in law, Donna Adelson. Okay, she's been

86
00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:29,160
Speaker 6: accused of orchestrating a murder for higher plots. Dan Markle,

87
00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,120
Speaker 6: the victim, by the way, he was a Harvard educated

88
00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,600
Speaker 6: law professor at Florida State University, and he was fatally

89
00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,279
Speaker 6: shot in this tablehassee garage in twenty fourteen. Okay, so

90
00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,839
Speaker 6: this is a while ago. All right, Wait, go ahead,

91
00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:44,920
Speaker 6: I was gonna say, so is that the granny though,

92
00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:49,240
Speaker 6: or we're starting with so granny killer person? Yes, Yes,

93
00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,440
Speaker 6: Donna Addelson is the grandmother. So she she was his

94
00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,240
Speaker 6: mother in law and they have children. Okay, so that's

95
00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,279
Speaker 6: why she's a grandmo. Okay, Well she's been charged with

96
00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,479
Speaker 6: orchestrating his murder because he was in like a really

97
00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:05,440
Speaker 6: bitter custody battle and Wendy, his ex wife, the mother

98
00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:07,839
Speaker 6: of his children, wanted to take the children to be

99
00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:12,440
Speaker 6: closer to grammy grandma and the kids nearby.

100
00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:14,760
Speaker 2: In so grandkids nearby.

101
00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,560
Speaker 6: Right, And the part of the custody arrangement is that

102
00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,840
Speaker 6: they had to stay within a certain range of the

103
00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,640
Speaker 6: home base in Tallahassee. So Dan Markle was like, no,

104
00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,680
Speaker 6: you're not taking my kids anywhere. You know, you're not

105
00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,919
Speaker 6: taking my kids to South Florida. Well Donna was like,

106
00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,479
Speaker 6: uh uh, you know, I want Wendy to move with

107
00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,839
Speaker 6: the babies to be closer to me. Well, so she

108
00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,479
Speaker 6: arranged and orchestrated this complete murder for higher plot, and

109
00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,160
Speaker 6: her trial started, and I'm telling you, I've been watching

110
00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,240
Speaker 6: it and it is like a soap opera. There are

111
00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:49,240
Speaker 6: so many it's horrifying. There are so many people involved.

112
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,360
Speaker 6: And if you're not watching it, I want to kind

113
00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:53,720
Speaker 6: of bring everybody up the speed so that you can

114
00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,800
Speaker 6: start watching it. Okay, It's on Court TV every day,

115
00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:01,760
Speaker 6: and yesterday was a crazy like I feel, okay, this

116
00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,080
Speaker 6: is I'm just gonna start. Okay, So Donna, she's the

117
00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,240
Speaker 6: victim's mother in law, say it again. She's charged with

118
00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:11,120
Speaker 6: first degree murder, conspiracy, and solicitation in the murder for

119
00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,200
Speaker 6: higher plot. The motive centers around this custody dispute. I

120
00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,520
Speaker 6: kind of went over that a little bit between Dan

121
00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:21,120
Speaker 6: Markle and Donna's daughter, Wendy Addelson, Okay, with Donna allegedly

122
00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,839
Speaker 6: seeking to move the children closer to the Addison family

123
00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,159
Speaker 6: down in South Florida, while the prosecution argues that Donna

124
00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,320
Speaker 6: planned and flunded the murder through her son Charles, who.

125
00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,880
Speaker 2: By the way, you guys, is a dentist. Wait another dentist. Wait,

126
00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,000
Speaker 2: just so I get this clear, can we call Donna

127
00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,040
Speaker 2: Granny from this point. First, yes, just to the play along. Sure, Okay,

128
00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:43,760
Speaker 2: So granny has a daughter, and daughter has a husband, right,

129
00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:48,080
Speaker 2: and the husband nobody's feeling because there's a custody dispute, correct,

130
00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,200
Speaker 2: And Granny wants the husband to loosen the reins so

131
00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,120
Speaker 2: that the grandkids can come closer to her South Florida,

132
00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,920
Speaker 2: and he's saying hard No. Meanwhile, she has a son

133
00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,320
Speaker 2: who's a dentists to be a dentist, right, and the

134
00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:06,080
Speaker 2: dentist son is somehow involved with Granny. Yeah, because oh

135
00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:06,760
Speaker 2: my goodness.

136
00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,120
Speaker 6: Okay, so his name is Charles, okay, and his girlfriend

137
00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,880
Speaker 6: used to date gang affiliated guys.

138
00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,080
Speaker 2: There's well, the dentists had a girlfriend that was in

139
00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,000
Speaker 2: a gang and had gang affiliates.

140
00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:24,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, gang South Florida. And she used her contacts to

141
00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,120
Speaker 6: hire two hitmen. What okay, I'm telling you. You need a

142
00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:28,640
Speaker 6: flow chart.

143
00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,480
Speaker 2: Oh my godness. So they're having murder meetings. Granny and

144
00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:37,440
Speaker 2: her son, so uncle are like plotting and planning because

145
00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:43,240
Speaker 2: uncle has a girlfriend who has associates in the gangs

146
00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,240
Speaker 2: who are like, hey, here's some cash, will you kill

147
00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,880
Speaker 2: this guy and put a stop to all this co parenting? Right?

148
00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, Okay, so now that the players have been kind

149
00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:58,440
Speaker 6: of laid out, Granny, the son, the dentist, the victim. Dan,

150
00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,840
Speaker 6: We're gonna Dan Markle, he's the victim. Wendy is the

151
00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:03,720
Speaker 6: wife of Dan, or the ex wife of Dan, i

152
00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,200
Speaker 6: should say. And she's the daughter of Granny, right, and.

153
00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:08,560
Speaker 2: She has any idea that this is happening.

154
00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,800
Speaker 6: Yes, well, yeah, I think she's gonna be charged. We're gonna,

155
00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,280
Speaker 6: we're gonna see, We're gonna see. It's just every there's

156
00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,680
Speaker 6: been five people charged so far. Okay, So here I'm

157
00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,520
Speaker 6: gonna go over those people. Charles, he's Donna's son and

158
00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,600
Speaker 6: Granny's son and the dentist. Right, And he's been convicted already,

159
00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,960
Speaker 6: by the way, for all of this. This has been

160
00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:30,920
Speaker 6: going on since twenty fourteen.

161
00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:31,440
Speaker 2: I'm telling you.

162
00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,120
Speaker 6: He's been convicted for having help coordinate and fund the plot.

163
00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,040
Speaker 6: That's Charles. And he was dating Catherine in twenty fourteen,

164
00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,800
Speaker 6: knowing she had connections to the Latin Kings Gang through

165
00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:47,920
Speaker 6: her ex Sigfredo Garcia. Well, he's been convicted as well. Okay, yeah,

166
00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,600
Speaker 6: I'm telling you, there's five people. So Catherine, now she's

167
00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,959
Speaker 6: also a key witness she's testifying for the state.

168
00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:03,480
Speaker 7: It's so uncising's against granny what Yeah, but when you're

169
00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:09,200
Speaker 7: brill these multitudes of people, how does anyone ever expect

170
00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:10,920
Speaker 7: anything to stay under wraps?

171
00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,240
Speaker 5: Not that I'm purporting you should keep your murder plots

172
00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,320
Speaker 5: for hire under wraps or have them at all.

173
00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,360
Speaker 2: We know that you're not, but you would have hold

174
00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:21,040
Speaker 2: the tight lip.

175
00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,600
Speaker 5: But honestly, you know your son, your son's girlfriend at

176
00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,240
Speaker 5: the time, that that girlfriend's ex boyfriend.

177
00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,200
Speaker 2: I mean, good grief. Yeah. Way, they're all so crazy

178
00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,640
Speaker 2: educated too. This is like a super smarty band's family

179
00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:39,559
Speaker 2: money even crazier.

180
00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,920
Speaker 6: They all have hash as well. Donna the grandmother was

181
00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:48,400
Speaker 6: she booked a flight to Vietnam because it's non extradition country. Like,

182
00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,199
Speaker 6: if you commit a crime and you go to Vietnam

183
00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:55,120
Speaker 6: and I think Italy, they won't extradite you to the

184
00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,120
Speaker 6: United States because we have the death penalty. Yeah. So

185
00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,839
Speaker 6: like if I'm just giving you like a if you

186
00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,400
Speaker 6: commit a crime, go to Vietnam because they won't send

187
00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:03,760
Speaker 6: you back to.

188
00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,040
Speaker 2: The States, right hip, if you're Amanda Knox in Italy

189
00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,800
Speaker 2: didn't work out, well, that's that's different. That's different.

190
00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,760
Speaker 6: We should give your crime tonight on iHeartRadio or joking

191
00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:14,360
Speaker 6: teerr crime all the time. Give us a call eight

192
00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,360
Speaker 6: to eight thirty one crime. If you've been watching this

193
00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,280
Speaker 6: Donna Addison Adolsen trial, give us a call.

194
00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:19,720
Speaker 2: Let me know.

195
00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:21,200
Speaker 6: I want to know what you guys think about all

196
00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:25,000
Speaker 6: these crazy characters that we're talking about. So the FBI

197
00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:30,079
Speaker 6: conducted years long research, and I remember reading about this

198
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,920
Speaker 6: case because I was covering the Jared Bridigan case and

199
00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,120
Speaker 6: you know, that's another week case we should probably cover.

200
00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,240
Speaker 6: But he was killed in a really similar way. And

201
00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,240
Speaker 6: there's a law that was created because of Dan Markle's

202
00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:47,199
Speaker 6: death in Florida called the Markel Act, and that gives

203
00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:51,840
Speaker 6: grandparents the right to the children, the surviving children, when

204
00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:56,640
Speaker 6: in fact the family of the perpetrator.

205
00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:57,840
Speaker 2: Is responsible for the death.

206
00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,240
Speaker 6: Okay, which is very SIMI lord of Jared Bride again's case,

207
00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,920
Speaker 6: and also, by the way, in Florida fortless. So I

208
00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:05,440
Speaker 6: don't know what's going on in Florida, but you guys

209
00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:05,640
Speaker 6: need to.

210
00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:07,440
Speaker 2: Stop it, Okay. It seems like it's in the water.

211
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,199
Speaker 5: So excuse me, body, just so I understand the law.

212
00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,240
Speaker 5: So if we make believe that I put out a

213
00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,320
Speaker 5: hit on my husband.

214
00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:21,120
Speaker 2: What Courtney Armstrong take a knob. Yes, I'm just trying

215
00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:28,440
Speaker 2: to Claire no a pretend example. I don't like that example. Okay, okay, okay, yes,

216
00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:28,840
Speaker 2: fair enough.

217
00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,600
Speaker 5: So a woman puts out a hit on her husband

218
00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,280
Speaker 5: and father of her children, then those children will go

219
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,320
Speaker 5: to the father the victim's parents.

220
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,760
Speaker 2: Is that correct? If they want them right?

221
00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,280
Speaker 6: So? Yeah, because normally grandparents don't have any rights. So

222
00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,240
Speaker 6: the Marvel Act is inspired by Dan Markle. So when

223
00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,440
Speaker 6: I was doing all this research, I started researching this

224
00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:53,920
Speaker 6: case back then. This was like in twenty twenty, so

225
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,280
Speaker 6: I've been following this for quite some time. And the

226
00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:02,600
Speaker 6: FBI was listening in at a restaurant when the dentist,

227
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,200
Speaker 6: who we know has also been convicted, was talking to

228
00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,000
Speaker 6: his girlfriend about the hit and the FBI was there

229
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,640
Speaker 6: recording it all. So the FBI has been involved, and

230
00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:15,760
Speaker 6: they conducted years long undercover stings, including surveillance, phone taps,

231
00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,920
Speaker 6: and a twenty sixteen bump operation targeting Donna directly. So

232
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,880
Speaker 6: Donna was arrested in twenty twenty three, fairly recently at

233
00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:28,720
Speaker 6: Miami International Airport while she was attempting to flee to Vietnam,

234
00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,200
Speaker 6: so that because she knew the people around to her,

235
00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:33,880
Speaker 6: she knew what was going on, and she was like,

236
00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:34,959
Speaker 6: I got to get the heck out of here.

237
00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,520
Speaker 2: And she booked a one way ticket to.

238
00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,760
Speaker 6: Vietnam and was never going to come back, and they

239
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,280
Speaker 6: arrested her at the airport. I'm literally getting on the

240
00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,080
Speaker 6: plane feet from safety. Oh yeah, feet from safety. Like

241
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,439
Speaker 6: it's crazy. So the evidence they have against her, they

242
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:54,160
Speaker 6: have text calls, emails linking Donna to Charlie and the

243
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:58,400
Speaker 6: girlfriend again who's been convicted right already around the killing dates,

244
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,640
Speaker 6: testimony from the girl friend. She's testifying against granny right

245
00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,920
Speaker 6: and her boyfriend is also justifying against her too.

246
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:06,800
Speaker 2: I'm going to keep going.

247
00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:10,400
Speaker 5: Keep it here because listen, we're gonna come back to this,

248
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,800
Speaker 5: and also we're going to be covering the latest on

249
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,160
Speaker 5: Californian's baby Emmanuel and what is happening in that case,

250
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,960
Speaker 5: and also what is going on with Party B. Her

251
00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,280
Speaker 5: big long nails come into play. Keep it here to

252
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:30,599
Speaker 5: your crime tonight.

253
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:39,200
Speaker 2: Why are you filling us in on this wild story

254
00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:43,480
Speaker 2: about a killer granny who is now seeing her day

255
00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:47,240
Speaker 2: in court. The family is falling to pieces, it seems,

256
00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,679
Speaker 2: like a house of cards. So bady, sorry for the

257
00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,920
Speaker 2: commercials to interrupt them. Slow here, where were you gotta

258
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:53,439
Speaker 2: pay the bills?

259
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:53,679
Speaker 6: Right?

260
00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:54,839
Speaker 2: You got to pay the bill?

261
00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,880
Speaker 6: So killer Granny Okay, Wendy Aedelson, right, I'm sorry, No,

262
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,160
Speaker 6: Donna Edelson. Wendy is her daughter. Sorry, my bad, so

263
00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:05,720
Speaker 6: Donna Edelson. She's on trial right now for the first

264
00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,960
Speaker 6: degree murder of her son in law, Dan Markle. And

265
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,280
Speaker 6: I wanted to give a brief overview for those who

266
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,120
Speaker 6: are just joining us of all the players because it

267
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,800
Speaker 6: can get confusing. I'm doing my best to try to

268
00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,880
Speaker 6: tell this in a linear fashion, but man, I'm kind

269
00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:19,440
Speaker 6: of jumping all over the place, so let me start.

270
00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:19,800
Speaker 2: Okay.

271
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,200
Speaker 6: So Dan Markle is the victim. He was gunned down

272
00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,160
Speaker 6: in his tally Hassegive home, like right in his garage.

273
00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:27,680
Speaker 6: He had just kind of dropped his kids off, and

274
00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:29,920
Speaker 6: I think he was pulling in and getting out of

275
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,240
Speaker 6: his cargo into his house and he was gunned down. Now,

276
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:39,240
Speaker 6: the people responsible, okay, are his ex wife's family. Okay,

277
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,080
Speaker 6: And I'm gonna go through those people, all right. Charles Aedelson, Okay,

278
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:49,280
Speaker 6: he's Granny's son. He's a dentist. His girlfriend, Catherine. She

279
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,080
Speaker 6: has gang affiliations with the Latin Kings, and so she

280
00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:58,080
Speaker 6: recruited two people, you know, to do this hit. And

281
00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:02,280
Speaker 6: they were the two hitmen, Lewis Rivera and Sigfredo Garcia.

282
00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,200
Speaker 6: They were convicted in twenty sixteen. Okay, Sigfredo, I think

283
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:11,120
Speaker 6: he took a plea deal, and Louis Rivera was like,

284
00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:15,080
Speaker 6: I think he was prosecuted directly. So those people have

285
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:20,320
Speaker 6: all been convicted already of this crime. The grandmother, Donna,

286
00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,680
Speaker 6: is on trial right now. The trial is every day.

287
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,040
Speaker 6: You can watch it like on all kinds of different channels.

288
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,480
Speaker 6: You just google it, you'll find it. And I'm kind

289
00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:30,400
Speaker 6: of addicted, and I kind of want you guys to

290
00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,920
Speaker 6: get addicted with me. So I wanted to tell the story.

291
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,280
Speaker 6: So those people have already, you know, they've already had

292
00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,040
Speaker 6: their trials. Here's what I want to talk about.

293
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:46,040
Speaker 2: Wendy. Wendy is the ex wife of Dan, the victim.

294
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,240
Speaker 6: Okay, So Donna the grandmother is her mom. Okay, Well,

295
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,200
Speaker 6: she testified yesterday, and based on the things that she

296
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:58,560
Speaker 6: said yesterday, I kind of think maybe she might be

297
00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:03,640
Speaker 6: seeing some charges soon. She has denied any involvement, even

298
00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,480
Speaker 6: though her brother has been convicted already and her mother

299
00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,480
Speaker 6: is on trial right now. Okay, she has denied any involvement.

300
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,440
Speaker 6: She said, I was not involved in any plot to

301
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:15,560
Speaker 6: kill Dan Markel the victim.

302
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:15,880
Speaker 2: Okay.

303
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:21,240
Speaker 6: She said her mom was overbearing. She said Donna micro

304
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:26,360
Speaker 6: managed her life. Wendy did admit to using derogatory terms

305
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,440
Speaker 6: to describe her ex husband. Notably, she called him an std,

306
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:35,040
Speaker 6: a dark lord, and an emotional terrorist just three weeks

307
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,120
Speaker 6: before he was killed, saying that these comments reflected her

308
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,320
Speaker 6: emotions at the time. You know, they were going through

309
00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,440
Speaker 6: a really bitter custody battle for you just joining us. Dan

310
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:47,440
Speaker 6: Markle did not want to let Wendy, his ex wife,

311
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,720
Speaker 6: take their two children down to South Florida. He lives

312
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,800
Speaker 6: in Tallisea up in northern Florida, well in that area,

313
00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:55,840
Speaker 6: and he didn't want his children to be taken away

314
00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,800
Speaker 6: too far from him. So he was denying her the

315
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,160
Speaker 6: ability to move to self Florida, where her mom and

316
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:05,240
Speaker 6: whatnot lives. Well, grant Grandma, that's the grandma, right, so

317
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,720
Speaker 6: testifying about like all the family dynamics and whatnot. Wendy

318
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:13,680
Speaker 6: again she's the ex wife, confirmed that Donna, the grandmother,

319
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,879
Speaker 6: was upset that the court ruled she had ruled and

320
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:22,040
Speaker 6: the children had to stay in Tallahassee. So Grandma was upset.

321
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:23,720
Speaker 6: Well wait, I just got to.

322
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,080
Speaker 2: Jump in here. So wait, Granny is looking out for

323
00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,560
Speaker 2: her daughter. Basically, she's basically saying, I don't like my

324
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,760
Speaker 2: daughter's now ex husband, right right, fing that correctly, Yes,

325
00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,760
Speaker 2: I would like my daughter to have her take her

326
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:43,120
Speaker 2: children with him closer to me, and therefore I'm going

327
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,640
Speaker 2: to put a hit out on him, which is Banana's.

328
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,399
Speaker 2: But she's in some weird, demented way, I assume looking

329
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,800
Speaker 2: out for her daughter and her daughter's custody plan, which

330
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,160
Speaker 2: again is bananas.

331
00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,600
Speaker 5: Right, Okay, looking out for her daughter, I suppose that's

332
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,440
Speaker 5: on lens in which to view this through. But then

333
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,879
Speaker 5: what about her son leaving him for dead and saying

334
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:10,160
Speaker 5: help me out, and you know, help with the financials.

335
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,639
Speaker 2: Her entire family down the exactly. It reminds me a

336
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:17,719
Speaker 2: little bit of the piked and massacre and hideous scenario

337
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,280
Speaker 2: that is happening in Pike County where a mother and

338
00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,800
Speaker 2: a father and uncles think they're doing the right thing

339
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,600
Speaker 2: by the kids to have more time with them. Yet

340
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:30,719
Speaker 2: they're all behind bars now and everybody that has immediate

341
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:35,359
Speaker 2: influence is gone because of their twisted and demented and

342
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:36,840
Speaker 2: dopey planned.

343
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:42,040
Speaker 6: It reminds me of Jared Rdigan exactly on the podcast

344
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:43,639
Speaker 6: that we did together, exactly.

345
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,080
Speaker 2: Can you fill someone in on what that even means?

346
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:50,760
Speaker 6: While Jared Bridigan was gunned down, he was driving home

347
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,639
Speaker 6: with his little girl in the backseat, and he was

348
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,000
Speaker 6: gunned down because he got out of the car to

349
00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,600
Speaker 6: move a tire from the middle of the road like

350
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,200
Speaker 6: it was but he couldn't keep driving. He was going

351
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,119
Speaker 6: down a little street and when he got out to

352
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,920
Speaker 6: move this tire, he was gunned down. Well, turns out

353
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,880
Speaker 6: that he was gunned down by a hitman hired by

354
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,840
Speaker 6: his ex wife. Yeah, Shanna, and they're on trial right now.

355
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to be following that very closely. In Body,

356
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,800
Speaker 2: we did the podcast R A KKY Studios, also on

357
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:20,680
Speaker 2: iHeart Kristin Bride again.

358
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,680
Speaker 6: By the way, she is the wife of Jared, who

359
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:27,760
Speaker 6: is lovely, the loveliest, the loveliest, and she created a foundation.

360
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,320
Speaker 6: Did you guys know about this foundation? She cours amazing

361
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,639
Speaker 6: So when this all happened, with Jared. The police came, obviously,

362
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,760
Speaker 6: and they had his daughter was in the back seat,

363
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,359
Speaker 6: you know, his little girl. I think she was two

364
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,600
Speaker 6: at the time, and the police took her to the

365
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,240
Speaker 6: police station and she didn't have a blanket, her biles, toys, nothing,

366
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,520
Speaker 6: and she sat there for hours. And so she's two

367
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,280
Speaker 6: years old. And so Kristen Bride again created this foundation

368
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,119
Speaker 6: where she creates these boxes and delivers them to police

369
00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,919
Speaker 6: stations full of supplies for toddlers and the children that

370
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:00,840
Speaker 6: would be in this kind of situation. It's the sweetest

371
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,480
Speaker 6: thing ever. I love Kristin Bard again, She's amazing. Any

372
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,360
Speaker 6: Who I'm digressing, This is true.

373
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,600
Speaker 2: Who's also a widow and her children are growing up

374
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:13,879
Speaker 2: without their beautiful father and their mother. What a senseless,

375
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 2: ridiculous crime. And it's shocking to me that granny thought

376
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:20,600
Speaker 2: this was the way to go. They are educated, they

377
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 2: have access, they have cash in their pocket, right, So this.

378
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:26,440
Speaker 6: Is true crime tonight and I Hart Radio, you were

379
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 6: talking Torue crime all the time. We were right in

380
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,200
Speaker 6: the middle of going over the Dan Markle case which

381
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:36,200
Speaker 6: is now being tried against Donald Aedelson. She is the

382
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,639
Speaker 6: former mother in law of Dan Markle. And I'm just

383
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:40,960
Speaker 6: kind of giving everybody the deats on what we know.

384
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,960
Speaker 6: So again, the FBI conducted this year's long undercover sting.

385
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:51,320
Speaker 6: Wendy is testifying. Wendy was don or Dan Markle's ex wife,

386
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 6: the daughter of Granny, who is Donna Edelson, who is

387
00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,639
Speaker 6: on trial right now. There's just a lot going on.

388
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:03,359
Speaker 6: So there's a something about the whereabouts of Wendy on

389
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,480
Speaker 6: the morning of the murder. So on July eighteenth or

390
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 6: twenty fourteen, Wendy said that she was driving near Dan's

391
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,040
Speaker 6: home when she saw the police tape. She stopped and

392
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,919
Speaker 6: she was concerned, but she didn't call Dan or the

393
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 6: preschool where her children were. Prosecutors noted that her ex

394
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 6: husband had earlier given her his day schedule, including jim plans.

395
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 6: So it's a little sus that she didn't like she

396
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 6: saw the police state, she saw the stuff, and she

397
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 6: didn't do anything.

398
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,240
Speaker 2: It's very very interesting police stape. It's so scary.

399
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 5: And if it's the house of the father of your children, yeah, that's.

400
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,239
Speaker 2: Or is it possible that she maybe just assumed it

401
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 2: was nothing and it was somebody.

402
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,439
Speaker 6: Else maybe, Yeah, it's listen, it's entirely possible, she is

403
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 6: denying any involvement. She also denies ties to other conspirators,

404
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,240
Speaker 6: like Catherine, who is the girlfriend who had the of

405
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,640
Speaker 6: the dentist who had the gang ties. Her name is Catherine.

406
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 6: In she said that Catherine's relationship with her brother Charlie

407
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 6: described her as just another girlfriend among many who all

408
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 6: looked somewhat similar.

409
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,680
Speaker 2: Ooh, she's basically brother under the bus.

410
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, she's around behind others and she's trying her mom

411
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,480
Speaker 6: out to the bus saying, you know, my mom sent

412
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:19,440
Speaker 6: me this weird email on the day.

413
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:19,959
Speaker 2: You know.

414
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,400
Speaker 6: July thirty first was the final divorce hearing date between

415
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,200
Speaker 6: her and Dan, and Wendy testified about a disturbing email

416
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,640
Speaker 6: from her mom sent prior to this critical divorce hearing.

417
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 6: It read the rest of your life and consequently Dad's

418
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 6: mine and yes, even Charlie's will be affected by how

419
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 6: well you can perform act before July thirty first. You

420
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 6: can be a good actress when you want to. I've

421
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 6: seen you in action. You need to put on the

422
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 6: performance of your life. Wow meaning what meaning? You better

423
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 6: behave at your divorce hearing and get full custody of

424
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 6: these kids, because if you don't.

425
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 2: We're all affected. Okay, So why is somebody considered an

426
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 2: actor or why would Granny say her daughter has to

427
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 2: put on the show of a lifetime to prove that

428
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 2: she's a good mother. Well, I think she Donna. Granny

429
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 2: was trying to tell Wendy, the daughter or the wife,

430
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 2: the mother of the two kids, that hey, listen, you

431
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,920
Speaker 2: better throw Dan under the bus and get full custody

432
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 2: of these kids. Tim in a very ny situation.

433
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,680
Speaker 6: And she didn't do very well, obviously because Dan had

434
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 6: the kids and was like, you're not taking my kids, Like,

435
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 6: what are you talking about?

436
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 2: You know, like it's it's pretty jarsy, it's pretty you know.

437
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 2: I'm so curious about Granny's background. I feel like we

438
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 2: want to dig into that a little bit. Can we

439
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 2: continue this forever? And yeah, because I am a little curious. Yeah,

440
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,199
Speaker 2: so she noticed the Crazys. Yeah there's something about a

441
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 2: TV as a hit man. And I missed that part

442
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 2: of the hearing because I had a meeting. So I

443
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 2: missed that part of a meeting. So I just kind

444
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 2: of had to read up on it. And I still

445
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 2: don't kind of get it.

446
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 6: If you know, give me a call eighty eight thirty

447
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 6: one Crime or Hit Us on the talkbacks on the

448
00:23:58,640 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 6: iHeart Radio app.

449
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 2: I need to know more about this TV.

450
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 6: That's someone's initials A literal TV, so Wendy's vision. Wendy

451
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 6: received a TV as a divorce present. The prosecutors hinted

452
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 6: that the gift was code and because it was mentioned

453
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 6: by her brother Charlie again the dentist joking that the

454
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,880
Speaker 6: TV was cheaper than hiring a hitman. So Wendy maintained

455
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 6: it was just a literal gift and the geek squad

456
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 6: had been sent to fix it on the morning of

457
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 6: Dan's murder, emphasizing that it wasn't code for violence. But

458
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 6: there's something with this TV that I'm missing because it's

459
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 6: like a big piece of evidence that they keep talking about.

460
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 6: I need to go rewind court TV and like watch

461
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 6: this part about the TV again.

462
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 3: You know.

463
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, Granny and uncle were just like this guy is enough.

464
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 2: We're all said to him. It's very weird. It's like

465
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,120
Speaker 2: insane that somebody would actually follow through with that plan.

466
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 2: I know, you know, people say the silliest stuff, right, Oh,

467
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 2: my son in law, I could imagine there's been you

468
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 2: know how many times has that been said.

469
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 6: Right, Well, one really important thing. Her credibility is kind

470
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 6: of like up in the air because she's testifying under

471
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 6: a grant of immunity by the way, who meaning Wendy

472
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 6: the White Yeah, she's got immunity right now, meaning her

473
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 6: statements can't be used against her. But guess what, prosecutors

474
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 6: maintain they can still pursue charges if they believe there's evidence.

475
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 6: So there might be more charges coming. There might be

476
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 6: more people going to prison because of this murder. And

477
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 6: I think Wendy might kind of get some kind of

478
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 6: conspiracy charges or maybe accessory after the fact or something.

479
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 2: So we're happening. So this kid said, everybody's fighting over

480
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:32,400
Speaker 2: I mean, can you imagine?

481
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 5: This is one to watch And we will absolutely continue

482
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 5: following this and especially put our lens into what is

483
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 5: doing with Granny and what her background is. Too many players,

484
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 5: too many players.

485
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 2: And listen, don't forget. Tonight is our first official true

486
00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 2: crime and chill documentary watchback party, So we want to

487
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 2: hear from you eight eight eight three one crime. You

488
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 2: can also hit us up in our socials at True

489
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 2: Crime Tonight Show on Instagram and TikTok, or you could

490
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 2: also find us on Facebook at True Crime Tonight, or

491
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 2: you could always leave us a message or hit us

492
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 2: up on our talkbacks. Just download the radio the iHeartRadio

493
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 2: app top right hand corner, press the button and boom.

494
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 2: You were on the show, Boddy. You did a very

495
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 2: good job breaking down that very case. But we have

496
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 2: to be able to play a long air quotes. I

497
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 2: know word, but like we want to be able to

498
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 2: understand as we start to track this trial. And I

499
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 2: think you did a great job breaking that down, and

500
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 2: I think I could speak for all of us. We're

501
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 2: really interested in following this more so absolutely, Granny. You're

502
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 2: confusing us, Granny. These are very complicated, bad choices to

503
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 2: be making Granny no better. So I'm hoping it's not true,

504
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 2: and we will be following this very close. Ye, Granny

505
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 2: and son is behind bars. It just seems like this

506
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 2: has gone awry in a very big way. Speaking of which,

507
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong, you were going to lead us down another

508
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 2: very unhappy path, but it has to be done because

509
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 2: it's appropriate. And yeah, where is that? Where is baby Emmanuel?

510
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 2: Baby Emmanuel?

511
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 5: So there have been some updates Baby Emmanuel's parents, Rebecca

512
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 5: and Jake Harrow, they are facing murder charges. This is

513
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 5: following Emmanuel's disappearance and is presumed death. Emmanuel is seven

514
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 5: months old and his parents, Rebecca and Jake, falsely claimed

515
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 5: he was abducted. Authorities now are saying that this poor

516
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 5: baby died from They're calling it long term abuse at

517
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 5: the hands of his parents, and that this kidnapping report

518
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,439
Speaker 5: was a part of a way to deliberately mislead investigators.

519
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 5: I pause, I'm sickened by even the term long term abuse.

520
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 5: This baby was seven months into his life. Or we

521
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 5: can't say definitively, what is a.

522
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 2: Baby, dude to get you so irritated that you abuse it? Like,

523
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 2: I don't get it? Yeah, I mean nothing is the key?

524
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 8: Yeah?

525
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 2: Nothing what they do?

526
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 4: Like?

527
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 5: Officials are now saying they have a strong indication of

528
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 5: the location of baby Emmanuel's remains.

529
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 2: However, in this moment that has not come to light.

530
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 5: New cart documents have revealed that he could have been

531
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 5: killed as early as August fifth, which is nine days

532
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 5: before his mother reported him missing.

533
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 2: Wow, that's happened before, right. We've seen story value, glory value.

534
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 2: Mario and Jack Gabell of Anthony. Anthony infamously it takes

535
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 2: a real sicko. It does that off. Can you imagine

536
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 2: for nine days, you're denying, going about your life, just

537
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 2: putting on clothes. Do you remember food?

538
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 6: When we first reported this, I had mentioned that people

539
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 6: at the the initially what happened was a manual. They

540
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 6: said that they were at this like sporting event, and

541
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 6: they she needs mom needed to go to Big five

542
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 6: to get like a mouthguard. And she goes to Big

543
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 6: five and has to change in manual's diaper and she

544
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 6: gets attacked in the Big five parking lot and somebody

545
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 6: kidnaps a manual and they say, oh, lot, hits a round.

546
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 2: Yes she does. Are racially charged right for people to

547
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 2: be looking for someone of a certain descent, which is

548
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 2: also extra gross. Just pile it on. It reminds me

549
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 2: of but oh yeah, well sure, let's blame it on

550
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 2: people who are being ripped off the streets. I know,

551
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 2: god so.

552
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 6: But my point in bringing that up was though that

553
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 6: people reported back then that they never saw a manual

554
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 6: at this event, Like, what was she talking about?

555
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 2: So he wasn't even anyway, I digress, it's live pants

556
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 2: on fire. Yeah, she's a sicko. And if this ends

557
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 2: up being true, and Courtney started to jump on you,

558
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 2: but I know you're thinking the exact same thing, you know.

559
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 2: So it's one of those ones where am I right?

560
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 2: The cops say they think they know where he's at.

561
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, they this specifically, they said they have strong indication,

562
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 5: officials have said of the location, so again they're not.

563
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 2: That's as far as has been reported right now.

564
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 5: We also know that Riverside County prosecutors have asked that

565
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 5: the parents be held in lieu of a million dollars

566
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 5: in bail, and I think that's the right choice, to

567
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 5: keep them locked up as things are sorted out. And

568
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 5: at a press conference, the DA confirmed that the child

569
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 5: died as a result of sustained abuse. And we also

570
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 5: know that the couple as of yet, has not confessed

571
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 5: since being taken into custody.

572
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 2: I would, of course know that I am.

573
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 5: I don't understand either, so I think it will come

574
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 5: to clarity as officials put more out. But I'm very

575
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 5: unclear as well of how they can confirm without Emmanuel's

576
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 5: poor body.

577
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 6: It's hard to do without no body case, right, Like,

578
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 6: this is a basically what they call a no body case,

579
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 6: and these are really hard to prosecute very I.

580
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 2: Would go on record I think we should put money

581
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 2: on it. I would say, not that we want to

582
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 2: put money on something so tragic. However, Dad is turning

583
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 2: on mom as do you think? Is my guess? Oh? Really?

584
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 2: So any of their substantiated thoughts. I think at this

585
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 2: point we're dealing with two extreme low lifes. And yeah,

586
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 2: it's every man for themselves. There is no love here,

587
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 2: and this couple is being brought up on charges together

588
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 2: and one of them will turn on the other and

589
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 2: that will mean a lot.

590
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 4: Wow.

591
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 5: Well, and this is Jake Harrow. This is not the

592
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 5: first time he has been embroiled in such terrible crimes.

593
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 2: Back in twenty twenty.

594
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 5: Three, which was not a long time ago, he played

595
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 5: guilty to child abuse. This involved another infant and at

596
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 5: the time he received a suspended sentence and work release

597
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 5: instead of prison time. The DA has come and publicly

598
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 5: criticized the judicial system for failing to incarcerate him because

599
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 5: of this child former child abuse case, and he is

600
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 5: going so far as to blame that for Emmanuel's death.

601
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 2: He should, by the way, that child also has lifelong

602
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 2: issues that will be dealt with by that child, not

603
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 2: by Emmanuel's screwed up dad, but by that child he

604
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 2: now has to be cared for in day one till

605
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 2: day one. Ever, they will not have a full life

606
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,959
Speaker 2: according to reports. And yeah, it seems like he has

607
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 2: struck again.

608
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 6: And it's my understanding too that the DA was so

609
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 6: upset by this terrible sentence that he got that the

610
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 6: DA even refused to sign the sentencing paperwork. The judge

611
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 6: just did it like on his own. That's my understanding.

612
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 6: I was reading about it today because the DA, the

613
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 6: DA had a press conference today and they were like

614
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 6: they land out to the judge in the case of

615
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 6: his other you know, the daughter that he've used.

616
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 5: Well, given ahead, I was gonna say, given the evidence

617
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 5: of what Jake, this father did to that girl, I

618
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 5: mean his daughter does, as you said, Stephanie, have permanent injuries,

619
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 5: broken ribs, fractures that are healing, a skull fracture, a

620
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 5: broken leg, and she will be bedridden for life, according

621
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 5: to reports.

622
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 2: Can you imagine. I mean, so this girl has broken

623
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 2: legs and a skull that's been beaten in and she

624
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 2: will be bedridden according to reports as of today. Miracles happen,

625
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 2: and I believe that it will in this case, but

626
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 2: this sicko decides to go fall in love again and

627
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 2: have yet another baby. And this is where this story ends. Yeah,

628
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 2: this system is broken. Something is not right in this

629
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 2: weirdo mom is going around blaming some other. You know,

630
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 2: she's literally bliming in it. It's shocking. She's literally saying,

631
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 2: oh yeah, and everything leads to her. So if you

632
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 2: think other, right, not him? I think both of them,

633
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 2: But I think they're going to turn on each other

634
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 2: and they're both equally culpable. This is my opinion, by

635
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 2: the way, allegedly, allegedly allegedly, this is my opinion based

636
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: of many things that I have in fact read. So

637
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 2: it's not just out of the sky, but it does

638
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 2: appear that, yeah, they were in it together. They lie together,

639
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 2: and in order to survive, one of them will eat

640
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 2: the other.

641
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 6: And do I see the video of her looking for

642
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 6: Immanuel out It.

643
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 2: Was probable ridiculous, the most real, horrendous act of a

644
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 2: human And by the way, we talk about this quite

645
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 2: a bit, but to see a mom pretend acting to

646
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 2: be looking for her child, that she's well aware of

647
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 2: the fact that that child is not where she's looking

648
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:05,240
Speaker 2: for him hopefully he's alive and well and someplace safe.

649
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 2: It doesn't appear that the police believe that's the case

650
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 2: based on recent events, and this really the search and

651
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 2: this press conference. But how do you sleep at night?

652
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 2: I know, I know, well, we not talk about it.

653
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 2: It's so rough. I'm so mad. I know we can.

654
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 2: Let's you know what, Let's let's do some talkbacks.

655
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 6: This is true crime tonight on iHeartRadio, Eyebody Moving, and

656
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 6: I'm here with Courtney and Stephanie and we have been

657
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 6: talking about missing, possibly murdered baby Emmanuel.

658
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 2: We want to hear from you.

659
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,320
Speaker 6: Give us a call eight to eight thirty one crime

660
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 6: or hit us up on the talkbacks on the iHeart

661
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 6: Radio app. Let's let us close us for now until

662
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 6: we get some more updates, and we'll respad with nothing

663
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 6: but respect, nothing but love.

664
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 2: It's just for am Manuel and his family who loves him,

665
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 2: but mom and dad. I'm not feeling good about you

666
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 2: guys right now, and I hope I'm wrong. Yeah, let's

667
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 2: do a talk back.

668
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 9: Lets Hey guys, it's Christy Feinberg. I live in O'calla, Florida,

669
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 9: and I listened to y'all all the time. I wanted

670
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 9: to make a comment about the Brian Colberger case with

671
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 9: reference to the fact that they're saying that there was

672
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 9: no connection between him and the students. I was looking

673
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 9: at listening to another very reliable source the other day,

674
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 9: and they have forensics that actually had been to the

675
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 9: Mad Greek a couple of times. He wiped it, so well,

676
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 9: there's no way of telling whether he actually attached to

677
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 9: their Wi Fi. But two of the women children, if

678
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,399
Speaker 9: you will, worked at that restaurant, So I haven't heard

679
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 9: that yet on your podcast, So I just.

680
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 2: Want to put that out better. Yeah, it's a big topic,

681
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 2: by the way, and yeah, we have to correct missus Pernodle.

682
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 2: Both worked to the and it had been really speculated about.

683
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 2: We had it actually in the documentary The Idaho Student

684
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 2: Murders airing on Peacock, and we had to pull it

685
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 2: out right because prior to this dump by law enforcement,

686
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 2: we couldn't prove it. It had been long talked about,

687
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 2: it had been discussed publicly, there was tons of chatter

688
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 2: about it, but we were not able to air it

689
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 2: legally because we couldn't actually place him there.

690
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 6: So for those who don't know, it was actually Basically,

691
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 6: his Google Maps placed him near This is through the

692
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 6: Celebrate data that we got from the Barnharts, and I

693
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 6: think that's who the talkback was talking about, the Barnharts

694
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 6: who worked with Celebrate their Celebrate experts. They analyzed Brian

695
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 6: Coberger's phone, but he was so good at wiping it,

696
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 6: but they were able to pull like his Google Maps

697
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 6: history and he appeared on around the Mad Greek restaurant

698
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 6: a couple different times for my memory. So yeah, there

699
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 6: could be some kind of like where he saw them

700
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 6: for the first time maybe and maybe he.

701
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 2: Was like, oh, got fixited, got fixcated a little bit.

702
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 2: I don't know. Well, we're going to keep going listen.

703
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 2: If you've missed any of the show, No stress, you

704
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 2: can always catch us right after as the podcast and

705
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 2: we're switching gears here by the way, we want to

706
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 2: just hear from you, so let's go straight from our

707
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 2: talk back.

708
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 6: Ladies.

709
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 10: Absolutely love listening to you every morning on my morning walk.

710
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 10: And Boddy just said that she doesn't know her neighbors.

711
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 10: She's lived there for X amount of years. I have

712
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 10: to wonder, do they know you, they appreciate what you did?

713
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:41,399
Speaker 2: Do they not like what you do.

714
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 10: I'm shocked they've never reached out to you in any manner.

715
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,839
Speaker 10: So that's what I wanted to make it. And I

716
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 10: love listening to you every day. Keep up the good work.

717
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 2: The sleuth is being so yeah. Let me tell you something.

718
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 2: Let me ask you. Do you have any of your

719
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 2: neighbors who are secretly well aware of who you are

720
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 2: and what you're talking about every night? Here with us.

721
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 2: Let me tell you something.

722
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,240
Speaker 6: If I leave my house, I run to it's nine

723
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 6: million degrees here, Okay, I run to my car. I

724
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 6: started out in my car. I'm like, Alexa, start my

725
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 6: car ten minutes before I even leave.

726
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 2: I wait, exactly, you start on yoursache? Yes? Do you

727
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 2: wear eyeglasses and a hat? Yes? Mustache?

728
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 6: It's a little it is so hot. So I run

729
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 6: to my car and I get and I leave, and

730
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 6: then I come home. I open my garage, I get in,

731
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 6: I don't. I literally don't go outside. I when I

732
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 6: if I do, I'm only in my car. Mostly, are

733
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 6: you afraid of the chatty neighbors?

734
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 2: The sun? I was gonna say, that's why your skin's

735
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 2: are so little irish, right, we all have to sort

736
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 2: of be aware of the beating sun. Right, it's it's

737
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 2: terrible here, honest, I'm being so for real, Right, are

738
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 2: you wearing sun screen every day? Every day? Every single day?

739
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,359
Speaker 2: I wear sometey wears like a hole like she wears.

740
00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 2: She wears like a full throttle scarf. She's a full gear.

741
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 6: So no, my neighbors, I don't even know if they've

742
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 6: ever seen me, to be honest with you, because I don't,

743
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 6: you know, I don't interact with them.

744
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 2: And it's not that I don't like them, I don't

745
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 2: know them.

746
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 6: And I really, quite frankly, when I moved to a

747
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 6: retirement home, which probably going to be soon, but when

748
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 6: I moved to a retirement home, it's going to be

749
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 6: like a complete culture shock to me because my understanding

750
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,720
Speaker 6: is those communities, they are all in your business right

751
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 6: from where I live now, you're in everybody else's business.

752
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 6: So not my neighbors. Though not my neighbors. My neighbors

753
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 6: I leave alone like I don't bother them, they don't

754
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 6: bother me.

755
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:37,879
Speaker 2: It's a wonderful relationship. I love it.

756
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 5: I'm going to tell you something that I think will

757
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 5: give you a panic attack. So I was away recently,

758
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 5: which is why I was not on the show, and

759
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 5: I'm so happy I'm back. But long story short, some

760
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 5: work was being done on the house. We got a

761
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:57,320
Speaker 5: call that construction could not continue unless the safe in our.

762
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 2: House was open.

763
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 5: So I had to call my next door neighbor, who

764
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 5: thankfully is absolutely lovely, and walk her through literally opening

765
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 5: the safe and removing the contents of the safe.

766
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 2: So that is a trusted neighbor. Yeah, that is a

767
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 2: trusted neighbor. First of all, why are you saying that

768
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,240
Speaker 2: you have a safe? It's very Kim Kardashian and there's.

769
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 5: Nothing in it, and it's like three pieces of paper

770
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 5: that no one would care about.

771
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 2: It's honest to god, I don't know why you have

772
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 2: the same. Yeah, it's not. I promise all of my

773
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 2: jewels are from Target. Listen, don't mess the Target tools.

774
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 2: I love the Target who recently moved. I spent a

775
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 2: lot of time at Target recently. But home Goods is

776
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:49,320
Speaker 2: my happy place. If you have not jumped into a

777
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 2: Tgmax home goods, it is like that there is very

778
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 2: few things that is scented candle in a throw pillow

779
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 2: cannot cure. Honestly, it really does make me please and Courtney, i'mstrung.

780
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 2: Lives right by one of the best ones and she

781
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 2: never has ever gone. I don't I know, it drives

782
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 2: stuff any crazy. I don't get like it's literally in

783
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 2: walking distance. I know. Okay, Sorry, we didn't even get

784
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 2: to Okay, more on this to come. We'll be right back,

785
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 2: very exciting to come. This is true crime tonight. We

786
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 2: are talking true crime all the time. To hang with

787
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 2: us and listen, there's some heavy stuff happening tonight. It

788
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 2: is undeniable. So we do actually want to hear from you.

789
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 2: Is is this something we're supposed to hang with and

790
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,439
Speaker 2: really stay with? Should we talk about other stuff? It's

791
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 2: like a sensitivity thing. We're not totally sure even what

792
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 2: you would like to talk about. So if you have

793
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 2: a chance, reach out, give us some guidance because we're

794
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 2: so in this with you, and honestly, on a day

795
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 2: like today, I'm just glad we're all together. So thank

796
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 2: you for listening. And Courtney Europe, what should we go

797
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 2: to first?

798
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 5: Well, we are going to talk about the alleged Tennessee

799
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 5: quadruple murderer, Austin Drummond. So he still is claiming his

800
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 5: innocence as a refresher July.

801
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 2: The end of July July.

802
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 5: Twenty ninth, there was an abandoned seven month old baby

803
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 5: found in a stranger's driveway. That baby was identified as

804
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:33,760
Speaker 5: the daughter of James and are Adriana Wilson. Okay, About

805
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,919
Speaker 5: forty miles from this abandoned baby, the bodies of four

806
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:44,240
Speaker 5: family members, James Wilson, Adriana Williams, the two parents, Courtney

807
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 5: Rose and Brayden Williams. They were later discovered in a

808
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 5: wooded area. The very next day. Austin Drummond was identified

809
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 5: as a suspect and the manhunt for him began. Well,

810
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 5: he has since been captured and arrested, and he now

811
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 5: is claiming at this that he was working as a

812
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:08,240
Speaker 5: confidential FBI informant.

813
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so he says he was working with the FBI.

814
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 5: He was targeting drug traffickers, corrupt officials, and gang leadership

815
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 5: and his hover was blown and that led him to

816
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 5: being framed for the four murders, which I wish you

817
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 5: could hear my eyem.

818
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's play that out. Can wait? Just play out

819
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 2: just as the in the spirit of Devil's advocacy. What

820
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 2: is he saying? So he was working for the FBI. Yeah,

821
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 2: he's in a very high stakes situation. Maybe he has

822
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 2: interesting access to interesting cases and a lot of pressure.

823
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 2: To your point, Courtney, so how does this lead to

824
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 2: the murders?

825
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 3: Yeah?

826
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 2: Okay, he states this.

827
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 5: Also, he states he was quote directly involved in the

828
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 5: four murders, however, innocent of the details. He further claims

829
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,439
Speaker 5: that after these murders happened, he fled out of fear

830
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 5: for his own life, not because of guilt.

831
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 2: So this guy, in.

832
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 5: Terms of playing it out, Stephanie, also, let's go ahead

833
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 5: for a moment and assume that this is not true

834
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 5: and that this guy is not, you know, king of

835
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 5: the FBI. How did he see this playing out that agents?

836
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 5: Is he going to say, Oh, they'll say no, I'm

837
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 5: not in the FBI. And then I'll say, of course

838
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 5: they have to say that because I'm an informant, Like,

839
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:29,839
Speaker 5: what's the end game here?

840
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 2: Well, so is it possible. Let's just play out the

841
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 2: informant thing. So he's an informant. Let's just go there.

842
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 2: Let's just go on a limb. He's an informant, and

843
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 2: the FBI is saying, we have to kill all these people,

844
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,399
Speaker 2: and you have to play along, so come with us,

845
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 2: don't say a word. That's right. They're like, Oh, it's

846
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 2: like ring and run. My brothers used to do that.

847
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 2: We would run. They would like make me go with them,

848
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 2: and I'd be so psyched and they knock on the

849
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 2: door and ring the doorbell and then they leave me

850
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 2: there and then they would answer that brother right, like

851
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 2: that was the worst game ever. But is it a

852
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 2: version of that? Could that be? I mean that seems

853
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 2: to me what Drummond is claiming. Here's the thing.

854
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 6: I think it is possible he could be an FBI informant, like,

855
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 6: you know, working with somebody maybe in prison that he

856
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 6: dealt with, you know, getting information or whatever. But I

857
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 6: absolutely do not believe that they were like, oh, let's

858
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 6: go kill somebody, you know what I mean, Like, none

859
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,879
Speaker 6: of that happened. Like I'm gonna I'm gonna put money

860
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 6: on it now, None of that happened, None of it.

861
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,359
Speaker 6: What's crazy to me is that he's going with it.

862
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:35,359
Speaker 6: He knows that the FBI is going to come right

863
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 6: back and be like, what are you talking about?

864
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 2: Well, that's what I'm saying. What where does he think

865
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 2: this ends? I don't know what the game. But you

866
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 2: know what, if you were talking against the FBI, let's

867
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 2: just go there for one brief second. You want to

868
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 2: play this is not true. I know this is untrue,

869
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,319
Speaker 2: and I know this guy is up to no good,

870
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 2: but let's just pretend for a second. So you're in

871
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 2: the FBI. I have a friend whose father was in

872
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 2: the FBI. I have to whisper because I'm afraid to

873
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 2: even talk about it. And he didn't know until the

874
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 2: end of days. And it shaped every piece or the reality.

875
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 2: So you're in the business of lying. You have to

876
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 2: like kind of you know, or they see it. You know,

877
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 2: all the scary things. Right if you're you're a spy,

878
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 2: you're in the CIA, you're you know, I want to

879
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 2: you can't talk about your business because it's so important, right,

880
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 2: So what if suddenly he was embroiled in this scheme.

881
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 2: He can't ask questions because you're you're not allowed, and

882
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 2: now suddenly he's left with the murder bag. No, even

883
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 2: as I say it, I want to hit myself in

884
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 2: the face. I get it, not more than I want to,

885
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 2: because body, you posted a photo.

886
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 5: Oh my god, us, oh so great, and you just

887
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 5: get it. It's yeah, yeah, Boddy is is it photoshop

888
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 5: or AI or whatever you are Larry Photos.

889
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 2: I know it's so good. Sorry, I digress. That's how

890
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,280
Speaker 2: much I care because I think he is for sure

891
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 2: a liar. Yes. Do I get a golden star for

892
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 2: identifying that.

893
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 5: Early on, so early in the process. So go ahead, Yeah,

894
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 5: I was just gonna say, Austin Drummond, listen. We will

895
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:25,919
Speaker 5: continue following this and the prosecution is planning to seek

896
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 5: the death penalty and he Drummond remains in jail without bond,

897
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 5: so more to come. His next court hearing is scheduled

898
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 5: for September fourth, twenty twenty five.

899
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 6: I have new the status news YEP to run with.

900
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 6: So this is about the Minneapolis church shooting, which you know,

901
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 6: it's so hard to.

902
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:51,280
Speaker 2: Talk about, so brutal, but we have to, We absolutely

903
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 2: have to.

904
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 6: Right, So, a former student opened fire on a school mass.

905
00:48:56,280 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 6: These these kids were at church, Minneapolis Catholic Church, killing

906
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:06,240
Speaker 6: children and injuring seventeen others before taking their own life.

907
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 6: The shooting occurred at Annunciation Catholic Church during a traditional

908
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 6: back to school mass attended by students and staff. The attacker,

909
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 6: we're not going to say their name is a twenty

910
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:22,280
Speaker 6: three year old ex student with a really troubled past

911
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 6: and a violent online presence, carried out the attack using

912
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:33,280
Speaker 6: multiple firearms. The gunman fired through the church windows during

913
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,839
Speaker 6: the mass, killing an eight and ten year old. Oh

914
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 6: just horrific. Seventeen others were wounded, including fourteen children and

915
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 6: three elderly prishioners. The attacker had previously attended the school

916
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:50,320
Speaker 6: and was the child of a former school employee.

917
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 2: So there's ties, right.

918
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 6: Social media accounts revealed really disturbing diary entries. There's like

919
00:49:56,200 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 6: a half baked manifesto that I really quite frankly, you

920
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 6: know me and manifestos, I really don't have any interest

921
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 6: in reading, which is odd for me. It's very odd

922
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 6: for me. Maybe given some time in space, I will,

923
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,280
Speaker 6: but right now I just have no interest. And sketches

924
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 6: of the church layout, there's like drawings of where people

925
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 6: are sitting, the altar, everything. It's really disturbing. Doors to

926
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 6: the church had been barricaded from the outside.

927
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 2: And do you know he knew this, He was planning this.

928
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 2: He even showed photos. Right.

929
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 6: So, the FBI is treating this incident as a domestic

930
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 6: terrorist incident and religiously motivated hate crime, which I you know,

931
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 6: I think is very appropriate. This is a hate crime.

932
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:46,800
Speaker 6: The weapons used was a rifle, shotgun, and pistolal I'm sorry, pistol.

933
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 6: And they were all legally obtained. So that's where we know.

934
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:52,760
Speaker 6: That's what we know right now, and this just happened today,

935
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 6: So as details come in, we'll keep you updated. But

936
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 6: that's where we're at right now. So this is true

937
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 6: cranme tonight on iHeart Radio. We are talking true crime

938
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 6: all the time. And Stephanie, I understand you might have

939
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 6: some more lighthearted news for us about little nas or something.

940
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 2: I can't switch gears so quick, you can't back so

941
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 2: I too, I know. So this is the line. I'm

942
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 2: not sure what the line is here, but here we are.

943
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 2: We're talking about a school shooter. Yet again, we've only

944
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 2: been on the air ourselves, as we're technically a new show,

945
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 2: and we've talked about multiple school shootings. And listen, this

946
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 2: is not like a soapbox, right, We're not. We have

947
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:38,840
Speaker 2: no agenda. I am convinced that our audience is so

948
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 2: clever and so smart that we can actually come up

949
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:46,800
Speaker 2: with some I don't know, some suggestions. Something in the middle,

950
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 2: it seems like we are in a loop. It's like

951
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 2: a horrible loop that none of us can get out of.

952
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,399
Speaker 2: I know we can all agree. Anybody who can hear

953
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:00,080
Speaker 2: my voice right now knows that we do not want

954
00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 2: to see more school shootings period. I don't want to

955
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,800
Speaker 2: see mass shooting. School shooting. Yeah, you don't want to

956
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 2: see any of it. And listen, so many want to

957
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 2: carry guns, nothing but respect. So many are afraid nothing

958
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 2: but respect. This is like, okay, we're deadlocked. How do

959
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 2: we find a solve? So again, heavy topic, but what

960
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,840
Speaker 2: can we take from it? If there's any suggestions? And

961
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 2: I don't have one other than I do, we should

962
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,439
Speaker 2: be doing mental health checks, much like we're doing when

963
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 2: you get your driver's license that is the same to

964
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:37,240
Speaker 2: get a gun, all of the things. My personal opinion

965
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,919
Speaker 2: counts for none of this. But here we are, And

966
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 2: rather than just repeating it and talking about it and

967
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:49,399
Speaker 2: just restating the captain obvious of hideousness, what can we

968
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 2: make happen?

969
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 6: What can we do better? I think I think a

970
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 6: good starting point. You didn't ask me for my opinion.

971
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 6: I'm gonna get it.

972
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 2: I want it because I think we're not talking politics.

973
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 2: Right now? This humans. I know how smart and human

974
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 2: we all are. We're all talking about very high stakes

975
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 2: emotional stuff.

976
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 6: I think a good starting point. I mean, obviously I

977
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 6: don't think. I don't think. Here's the thing you can't

978
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 6: put You can't put it back in the bag, right,

979
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 6: you can't. You can like the guns, the guns are here.

980
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:19,919
Speaker 6: Nobody is fighting even that.

981
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 3: I like that.

982
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 2: That's we're not even no one suggesting no guns are here.

983
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 6: So let's let's focus on our mental health, right, you

984
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 6: know we I was, I was talking about this a

985
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 6: while ago. I had to make a therapy appointment and

986
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 6: I'm still waiting for somebody to call me and it's

987
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 6: been months months.

988
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 2: Think about that?

989
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 11: Is that?

990
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 2: I mean, that's just state of the times.

991
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 11: Right.

992
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 2: So you're reaching out asking I'm reaching.

993
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 6: Out for help and I can't. And I have great

994
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,759
Speaker 6: health insurance. What about people that don't, that don't even

995
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 6: have health insurance?

996
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:53,919
Speaker 2: What do they do?

997
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:54,359
Speaker 7: Right?

998
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 11: You know?

999
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:56,760
Speaker 2: When they buy and then they shoot it at school?

1000
00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 2: That's the are because that in the very unhealth the mind,

1001
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 2: that is without pools, maybe jumps to a decision that

1002
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 2: anybody in their right mind wouldn't make. Right, So we're

1003
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 2: talking from grace and we're talking with empathy here, so

1004
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:16,320
Speaker 2: there's like a judgment and no pocks on any houses.

1005
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:20,399
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's a really it like hits hard when

1006
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,760
Speaker 2: I hear you say that, I mean, try to an appointment.

1007
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 2: Try to find a therapist right now. Try.

1008
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 6: I mean, maybe it's just a Las Vegas thing, but

1009
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 6: there's they just don't exist, and if they do, they're

1010
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 6: not taking new clients or they're.

1011
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 2: Just asking you to pay out a pocket, right, So

1012
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 2: they just feel everybody has less money to live and

1013
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 2: I think there's less of them too. Nobody wants to

1014
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 2: be in there. Nobody wants to be a therapist. Nobody

1015
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 2: wants to deal with all of our craziness. Like can

1016
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 2: you imagine being a therapist having it listening to like

1017
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:52,800
Speaker 2: my crazy butt all day? Like, of course, Jessica Kaplan,

1018
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 2: I have the answer for you do have a fast answer, actually,

1019
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 2: but not everybody has a fast answer, right, or maybe

1020
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 2: we do. And maybe that's why we're talking about this.

1021
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,759
Speaker 5: I mean there also is and this is no sponsor

1022
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 5: or anything else, but there's a crisis text line. You

1023
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 5: can text the word home body you're shaking your head, well.

1024
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 2: Even chat GGT is like pausing people to have psycho psychosis.

1025
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 2: I was just reading about this this morning, and so

1026
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 2: again we're not prescribing. We're just like a regular folk

1027
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 2: with no agenda. But I think the takeaway after this

1028
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 2: level of crisis yet again is can we workshop some

1029
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 2: answers because I think we can do something internal and

1030
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 2: maybe get ahead and listen, we're switching gears a little bit,

1031
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 2: a little bit long overdue. Because it is our first

1032
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:46,719
Speaker 2: official I guess it's a launch, right. This is like

1033
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 2: the premiere, if you will, of True Crime and Chill,

1034
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,600
Speaker 2: right right, that is that is our Yeah, I hear

1035
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:56,880
Speaker 2: a smoke machine. I'm seeing a strobe light in my

1036
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 2: in my in the distance, and red carpet, perhaps because

1037
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 2: we've all been paying close attention, by the way, the

1038
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 2: naming of this night in this activity of True Crime

1039
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:12,959
Speaker 2: and Chill, nice job for everyone who called in yead.

1040
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 2: By the way, that was an impressive show up of voting,

1041
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:20,359
Speaker 2: Like you know, we were giggling and then it was like, wow,

1042
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 2: this got super real and it was like a standoff

1043
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 2: here at the studio. We were really invested and so

1044
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 2: were you guys. And I feel like we came to

1045
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 2: the perfect title. So we are officially going to true

1046
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 2: crime and chill and high stakes, high stakes, higher stakes

1047
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 2: than even the case that we're talking about, which is

1048
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 2: also very high stakes. So the Son of Sam the

1049
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 2: Conversations with a Killer on Netflix is what we've all

1050
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:51,360
Speaker 2: been tasked to watch with a show of hands body,

1051
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 2: So anybody listening to feel free raise that hand. You know,

1052
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:57,400
Speaker 2: we're not doing it on the Bible or anything, but

1053
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 2: it's just like an honorary. You know, True Crime and

1054
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:04,920
Speaker 2: Chill Volk Club. Have you watched all of this? Of

1055
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 2: course I did. Okay, body's being a show off right

1056
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:10,359
Speaker 2: from Jump Street. My hand's so high you can I'm

1057
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 2: practically touching the ceiling. So anybody else want to raise

1058
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 2: their like a one point five? So he's phoning it

1059
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 2: in honesty. But also I gave him a one and

1060
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 2: a half. I gave him a tip off, and I

1061
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 2: said I would like fill him in Adam and Sam anything, no, nothing,

1062
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 2: got a big no. Okay, Well, you've had a busy week.

1063
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 2: It's a holiday week and a busy week, so anybody

1064
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 2: else listening right now, you have no excuses, Courtney.

1065
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 5: Armstrong, You're on holiday Okay, I was, but of course,

1066
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm I read the appendix of books.

1067
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 2: I course, the way you are you are that is true.

1068
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:49,919
Speaker 2: And you took this very seriously as well, I might add,

1069
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 2: And by the way, and thank God because you come

1070
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 2: from such great genetics. Honestly, your mom, Betty is the greatest. Uh.

1071
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 2: And she's slightly psyched. She's a little bit of a psychic,

1072
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 2: you know, she knows what's doing, she remembers, she tells us.

1073
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 2: She's one of those people that like tells it as

1074
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 2: it is, and this is a case that was close

1075
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 2: to the heart and close to yours. Yeah, that's right.

1076
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 5: So I just to before body gets into all of

1077
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 5: the details of the actual crime. I did give my

1078
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 5: mom a quick call because even though Stephanie mentioned having

1079
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 5: her on, she confirmed what I.

1080
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 2: Said was that she would never be awake at ten

1081
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 2: pm for anything period. No, you said, whether you were

1082
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 2: getting even if you were getting married or accepting an award.

1083
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 2: This we're giving the life. Yeah, we're giving her.

1084
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:44,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, and ps I kind of relayed that to her

1085
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 5: and she said, well, I get it from my mother

1086
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 5: and she my mom's one of seven kids. She's like, yeah,

1087
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 5: when we all started having babies. My grandma said to them,

1088
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 5: don't be calling.

1089
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 2: Me in the middle of the night. I can't do

1090
00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 2: anything anyway. So basically you're on your own and your babies.

1091
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 5: So that's where I come from.

1092
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 2: By the way, the truer words could not be Those

1093
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 2: are like really good, real words of wisdom any and

1094
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 2: she's right, so like while she sleeps. It's so exciting

1095
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 2: that we're talking about it right now because she's.

1096
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 5: But gave her a quick call because she was in

1097
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 5: a story of queens at which was really you know,

1098
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 5: all the center. Son of Sam was happening in and

1099
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 5: around on this really pivotal summer in our history. So

1100
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 5: here's my here's her brief take on the summer of

1101
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 5: seventy seven. I'm just curious if you can give me

1102
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 5: just a real quick snippet of what that summer of

1103
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 5: seventy seven was like.

1104
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 11: Strange it started, I think I'm not sure if it

1105
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 11: started with Sun of Sam or it started out with well,

1106
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 11: a blackout that was had, and both were big news.

1107
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 11: But Son of Sam stayed in the news because it

1108
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,960
Speaker 11: was so creepy and people kept getting killed and they

1109
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 11: thought because maybe they had brown hair, or it was

1110
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:07,440
Speaker 11: just it was just weird, but it got an awful

1111
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 11: lot of publicity, and people really were changing behaviors because

1112
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 11: of this, like literally coloring their hair different colors. I

1113
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 11: wasn't nervous about this. I was curious, but I didn't

1114
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 11: think it concerned me. Then Elvis died and that was

1115
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 11: a huge story. So those three stories were big that

1116
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 11: whole summer. And it was, if I remember, a very

1117
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 11: hot summer. So literally we were out on the stoop

1118
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 11: every night, out on the sidewalk, not me, the whole

1119
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 11: block of people talking about Elvis to the blackout or

1120
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 11: Son of Sam.

1121
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 2: Wow, And this is the summer that we get Courtney

1122
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 2: Armstrong being baked in her mama's bed. Is the summer

1123
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:54,120
Speaker 2: of Gray Armstrong. So it was hot in here, right,

1124
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 2: So she.

1125
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 6: Really did a good job of like setting the table

1126
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,080
Speaker 6: of like what the summer was like.

1127
01:00:59,320 --> 01:00:59,600
Speaker 2: Right.

1128
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:02,439
Speaker 6: This is true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

1129
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 6: crime all the time. I'm going to get ready to

1130
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 6: tell you guys all about the Son of Sam, and

1131
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 6: then we're going to discuss the documentary. But for those

1132
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 6: who didn't watch it, if you want to participate and

1133
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:11,920
Speaker 6: listen to me.

1134
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 2: Now, so we're going to get there are some spoiler alerts. Yeah,

1135
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 2: that's true. I mean not really. It's like if you

1136
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 2: can't believe this and true crime without knowing about the

1137
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 2: sun coming. This is the son of Sam. These are

1138
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 2: cliff notes more crimet notes.

1139
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's true. So the son of Sam. David Berkowitz

1140
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 6: he was a serial killer who terrorized New York City

1141
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:35,959
Speaker 6: from July nineteen seventy six to August of nineteen seventy seven.

1142
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 6: He killed six people and wounded seven others. His method

1143
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 6: typically involved shooting couples, typically couples in parked cars with

1144
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 6: the forty four caliber Revolver, which is interesting and I

1145
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 6: kind of want to get into that as well later,

1146
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 6: particularly targeting young women with long, dark hair, as your mom,

1147
01:01:56,840 --> 01:02:00,439
Speaker 6: you know, astutely pointed out Courtney. He wrote a ton

1148
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 6: of letters to the police and journalists. He was like

1149
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 6: taunting them and created widespread, widespread panic throughout all the

1150
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 6: boroughs of New York City. Right, really scary, and people

1151
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 6: were scared to like sit in cars, right, And he

1152
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:18,640
Speaker 6: would even attack women, you know. Some of the victims

1153
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:21,920
Speaker 6: that survived were just like walking home from school. So

1154
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 6: not only did he attack like people like Lovers Lane

1155
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 6: kind of stuff, but he also just attacked random women

1156
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 6: just walking home or you know, walking around the block. Again,

1157
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:35,360
Speaker 6: it was very hot that that year. People were outside

1158
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 6: because it was all stuffy and whatnot in their apartment,

1159
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:40,880
Speaker 6: So people were outside and they were scared. It was very,

1160
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:46,120
Speaker 6: very scary. His string of shootings, which he first attributed

1161
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 6: to a demon possessing his neighbor's dog, instilled a terror

1162
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:56,400
Speaker 6: across multiple New York boroughs. It started in nineteen seventy six.

1163
01:02:56,520 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 6: He began his attacks, with his first victims being Donna Lauria,

1164
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:05,920
Speaker 6: who was killed and Jody Valenti, who survived. Subsequent shootings

1165
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:08,440
Speaker 6: over the next several months left more people dead or

1166
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:13,160
Speaker 6: wounded in seventy seven, because you know, it rolled into

1167
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 6: the next year. The attacks escalated with multiple shootings in

1168
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 6: early July of seventy seven. Again, this is going to

1169
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 6: be going into that summer now, right, And here's the thing.

1170
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:28,360
Speaker 6: The police we didn't have computers back then, right, there

1171
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:31,280
Speaker 6: was no like cross communication between the boroughs. So even

1172
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:34,440
Speaker 6: though it started in seventy six, when it started in

1173
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:37,840
Speaker 6: seventy seven, the police they didn't connect the dots, right,

1174
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 6: because they didn't communicate with one another, they didn't even

1175
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 6: know that it was the same guy. It wasn't until

1176
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:45,920
Speaker 6: much later that they kind of pieced it all together

1177
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:47,920
Speaker 6: there was the same guy, and that was around the

1178
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 6: summer of seventy seven. His last attack occurred July of

1179
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 6: nineteen seventy seven, where he killed Stacy Moskowitz and wounded

1180
01:03:57,120 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 6: her date, Robert Valente. So his victims ranged in ages.

1181
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 6: They typically were in their mid twenties, early twenties. They

1182
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:12,960
Speaker 6: were very young. However, just recently, a citizen like sleuth

1183
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:17,680
Speaker 6: kind of pieced together that he was involved in an

1184
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 6: earlier attack, but she was much older and it was

1185
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:23,240
Speaker 6: a different weapon. We're going to talk about that next

1186
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:25,400
Speaker 6: because that's part of the documentary. So I'm going to

1187
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 6: keep that secret for now.

1188
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:31,200
Speaker 2: So his motive, his motive.

1189
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 6: Berkowitz was captured on August tenth after a parking ticket

1190
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 6: placed his car that was linked to an area of

1191
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 6: his final attack.

1192
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 2: Right, this is really good police work, by the way.

1193
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:44,840
Speaker 6: Right, So he did this attack, and what the cops

1194
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 6: did was they looked and see who got tickets in

1195
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 6: the area around that time, and guess what David Berkowitz

1196
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:51,959
Speaker 6: was one of them. So that's how they caught him.

1197
01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 6: And when he got arrested, he said, what took you

1198
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:57,760
Speaker 6: so long? And he immediately composed to the shootings. Right,

1199
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 6: So he's also been involved in or implicated, I should say,

1200
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:04,680
Speaker 6: with a lot of different arsons. A lot of times

1201
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 6: you'll hear me say there's this like triad of you know,

1202
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 6: things that serial killers are often, you know, part of

1203
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:18,080
Speaker 6: an arson. Bedwetting as an adult, and animal abuse are

1204
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 6: indicators that there might be some something going on. And

1205
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 6: so he was setting fires at a very young age. Again,

1206
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 6: he had this demonic possession hoax. Berkowitz initially claimed that

1207
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:35,680
Speaker 6: a demon possessing his neighbor's dog, Sam Carr, was his neighbor.

1208
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:39,320
Speaker 6: That's why it's called the Son of Sam. Sam Carr's dog,

1209
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:43,080
Speaker 6: had ordered him to kill. However, he later recanted, admitting

1210
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 6: that claim was a hoax the true motivation behind the killings.

1211
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 6: He eventually told a psychologist that was court appointed that

1212
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 6: his motive in anger was directed at a world that

1213
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 6: he felt rejected him. Some of the victims were women

1214
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 6: he felt rejected him, and he was diagnosed with paronoid schizophrenia.

1215
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:07,680
Speaker 6: He targeted young bubbles, young couples, right. Berkowitz often targeted

1216
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:11,440
Speaker 6: people in park cars, a choice he believed to stem

1217
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 6: from his resentment of having been conceived out of wedlock.

1218
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 6: He was adopted, and you know, his name was actually Roberts.

1219
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 6: I think it was Robert David something. And then when

1220
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:28,200
Speaker 6: he got adopted, his adoptive parents switched his middle name

1221
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 6: with his first name. That's why it's David Brooklitz. AnyWho

1222
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:33,240
Speaker 6: I'm digressing, No, that's target interesting detail.

1223
01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:35,400
Speaker 2: It is interesting. I think it's one of those you

1224
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 2: and I both bumped on the same detail about him.

1225
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 2: Did I think that like sums a lot of him up. Yeah.

1226
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:45,680
Speaker 6: He was kind of like weirdly attached to his mom. Yeah,

1227
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 6: he had a real mommy thing. He kind of tortured her,

1228
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:51,480
Speaker 6: but like also really wanted.

1229
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:53,480
Speaker 2: Her to be it couldn't be away from her, but

1230
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 2: like tortured her because he was separate from her in

1231
01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:59,560
Speaker 2: a weird way because he was adopted. There's some sort

1232
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:03,600
Speaker 2: of messiness there. There is. I'm not at all sure

1233
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:06,560
Speaker 2: how to unpack that, but it's interesting. It is interesting.

1234
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:10,160
Speaker 6: So he targeted women, women with long hair. We talked

1235
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:13,120
Speaker 6: about this a little bit. Women were dyeing their hair blonde,

1236
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 6: thinking that.

1237
01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 2: She had dark hair. Yea mom had dark, dark hair. Yeah,

1238
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:24,040
Speaker 2: many of his women minded this is dig mother. We

1239
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:26,600
Speaker 2: don't know if you know his adoptive mother. No, but

1240
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 2: his biological mother he never knew, right, No, he met her.

1241
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 2: He did, she had blonde hair. Oh, that's right, he

1242
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 2: did in the Diet show. Hands are right, right, You're

1243
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:42,560
Speaker 2: absolutely right. Yeah.

1244
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 6: So a lot of people speculate that his a tax

1245
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:48,080
Speaker 6: were a form of like this, like displaced digression towards

1246
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:51,560
Speaker 6: his biological mother for giving him up.

1247
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, keep it here.

1248
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:57,840
Speaker 5: I'm going to investigate the real who watched the rightisodes

1249
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:01,400
Speaker 5: from start to finish? It is True Crime and Chill.

1250
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:03,760
Speaker 5: Keep it here on True Crime Tonight.

1251
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:17,320
Speaker 2: And Man Full Night. So far it has been a

1252
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 2: very warm night so far, saying to take a big exhale, right,

1253
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:24,200
Speaker 2: what do you have body? When I finish up really quickly.

1254
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 6: Only the only thing I want to kind of touch

1255
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:28,720
Speaker 6: on really quickly before we move on to True Crime

1256
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:31,840
Speaker 6: and Chill. By the way, excited is you know the

1257
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 6: Son of Sam case really kind of left a really

1258
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 6: lasting impression on America and the justice system.

1259
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 2: Right because the Son of Sam law right.

1260
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 6: We've all talked about that, and what it was was

1261
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 6: it meant that if you committed a crime right, you

1262
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:51,080
Speaker 6: wouldn't be able to profit from it. Because after David

1263
01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:54,040
Speaker 6: Burkowitz was arrested, he started getting book deals and movie

1264
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:57,400
Speaker 6: deals and whatnot, and the you know, the citizens and

1265
01:08:57,439 --> 01:09:00,799
Speaker 6: even David Burkwitz himself actually were like, this is probably

1266
01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:04,080
Speaker 6: not you know, something that he was actually.

1267
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:06,240
Speaker 2: A real advocate for. This is not happening.

1268
01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:10,760
Speaker 6: Interestingly enough, it's very interesting. So that's why it's called

1269
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:14,880
Speaker 6: the Son of Sam law. But however, in two so

1270
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:18,760
Speaker 6: that got passed, and then in two thousand, I think

1271
01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:21,920
Speaker 6: one or the nineties it got repealed by the Supreme

1272
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:25,200
Speaker 6: Court saying it was a violation of freedom of speech.

1273
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:29,559
Speaker 6: But then New York modified their law, and I think Idaho,

1274
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:32,760
Speaker 6: because we talk about this with Brian Coberger, Idaho has

1275
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:35,719
Speaker 6: a similar one where it can profit from their crime,

1276
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 6: but the family can sue for.

1277
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:43,439
Speaker 2: That money, meaning usually there's bail being set. So for example,

1278
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:48,559
Speaker 2: you're using the Brian Coburger Idaho example. If in whatever universe,

1279
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:54,160
Speaker 2: God forbid, Brian Coburger, the now accused guilty killer behind

1280
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:58,320
Speaker 2: bars serving time for the murder for humans. If he

1281
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:01,880
Speaker 2: were to write a book, for example, Bull, Yes he could,

1282
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:06,080
Speaker 2: but the profits of that book could be given to

1283
01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:10,240
Speaker 2: the family members because they could sue very quickly as

1284
01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:14,040
Speaker 2: they should be able to write. So son of Sam.

1285
01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:16,840
Speaker 2: And by the way, Courtney Armstrong, Betty was so good.

1286
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:20,320
Speaker 2: Your mom was a slim How great we did it

1287
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:22,360
Speaker 2: at a little she had Our call time was a

1288
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:25,240
Speaker 2: little earlier thanks to you did a little ahead of schedule.

1289
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:30,479
Speaker 2: You know what, We all value it. God bless and

1290
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:32,960
Speaker 2: we're so psyched that she was here. Yeah.

1291
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:36,280
Speaker 6: So Berkowitz, he pled guilty to the murders and received

1292
01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:40,720
Speaker 6: six consecutive life sentences, receiving the maximum penalty a lot

1293
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:43,439
Speaker 6: of the time. He's currently he's still alive. By the way,

1294
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:46,080
Speaker 6: he is currently serving his sentence in a New York

1295
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:51,400
Speaker 6: maximum security prison and has repeatedly been denied parole. So

1296
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:53,880
Speaker 6: we got to move on now to True Grim and

1297
01:10:53,960 --> 01:10:56,880
Speaker 6: Chill and talk about the documentary that we were assigned

1298
01:10:56,880 --> 01:10:59,080
Speaker 6: as homework. Let's let's go right to a talk back

1299
01:10:59,080 --> 01:10:59,760
Speaker 6: about it right now.

1300
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:04,639
Speaker 4: Hey, y'all, step from Bama. I'm super excited about the

1301
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:09,439
Speaker 4: True Crime and Chill watch clubs. I can honestly say,

1302
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:11,360
Speaker 4: I don't know if I've been as excited to do

1303
01:11:11,439 --> 01:11:16,479
Speaker 4: homework anyways, immediately I watched those documentary and I have

1304
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:19,880
Speaker 4: tons of questions, but I'm only going to ask one

1305
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:20,360
Speaker 4: right now.

1306
01:11:21,680 --> 01:11:27,160
Speaker 8: So question, with that toy gun exercise, do you think

1307
01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:31,920
Speaker 8: it could have unintentionally shaped Berkowitz's violent tendencies?

1308
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:37,680
Speaker 4: And do therapists normally have standards preventing such techniques? It

1309
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:44,639
Speaker 4: just seems like a really crazy technique to use on everyone.

1310
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:48,719
Speaker 2: I thought the same thing. Yes, I thought the exact

1311
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:50,800
Speaker 2: same thing. That was going to be my jump off place.

1312
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:53,479
Speaker 2: You stole my thoughts? Was it really? Yeah? So when

1313
01:11:53,479 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 2: you I thought that that was so interesting to me?

1314
01:11:56,880 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 2: Was that an imprint? Was that an impression?

1315
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:04,080
Speaker 5: A nud Well, we should explain what she's referencing, and

1316
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:07,439
Speaker 5: thank you and you also you call or talk back

1317
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:10,639
Speaker 5: with any and all of your questions because they're always welcome.

1318
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:16,599
Speaker 5: But what the caller was referring to is that son

1319
01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:20,760
Speaker 5: of San David Berkowitz, his parents. It came to a

1320
01:12:20,800 --> 01:12:22,600
Speaker 5: point when he was younger.

1321
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:23,799
Speaker 2: And setting fires.

1322
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:26,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, his body alluded to he was setting fires. They

1323
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:30,240
Speaker 5: realized he needed help. They did the responsible thing. They

1324
01:12:30,280 --> 01:12:35,559
Speaker 5: took him to a child psychologist or a psychologist. And

1325
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:39,720
Speaker 5: part of what the exercise that she did was to

1326
01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:43,360
Speaker 5: have young David Berkowitz set up. She set up all

1327
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:46,120
Speaker 5: of these little toy soldiers if you can picture, like

1328
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:49,880
Speaker 5: two inch tall green toy soldiers, plastic ones, and gave

1329
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:53,720
Speaker 5: him a toy gun so he could help illustrate who

1330
01:12:53,720 --> 01:12:55,760
Speaker 5: were you mad at today? And he would say, you know,

1331
01:12:56,439 --> 01:13:00,280
Speaker 5: Tony in class, I'm angry with him, and he would hoys,

1332
01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:02,439
Speaker 5: shoot again and again.

1333
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:07,000
Speaker 2: It was weird. I that was very strange, very strange,

1334
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 2: like I'm not no shame. And by the way, we're

1335
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:12,840
Speaker 2: learning from this, so this is not to pile on

1336
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:16,880
Speaker 2: that is not the intention. It is different times. We

1337
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:20,200
Speaker 2: just heard from Courtney Armstrong's mom. So like in the

1338
01:13:20,280 --> 01:13:24,040
Speaker 2: time you've been of live Courtney Armstrong, time has evolved.

1339
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:30,160
Speaker 2: But that seemed wildly not so great in my two cents.

1340
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:34,080
Speaker 6: And as we know, David Berkowitz shot people. That was

1341
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:37,400
Speaker 6: his method of you know, operating, that was his modus operandi, right.

1342
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:40,719
Speaker 6: He would shoot people, which is by the way, very

1343
01:13:40,720 --> 01:13:43,759
Speaker 6: interesting for a serial killer to do. They never shoot people,

1344
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:46,479
Speaker 6: that never have Only twenty four percent of serial killers

1345
01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:47,000
Speaker 6: use a gun.

1346
01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:51,120
Speaker 2: A quarter. It's close to a quarter, close to a quarter.

1347
01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:53,800
Speaker 2: And by the way, I think that quarter in more

1348
01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:58,680
Speaker 2: modern times and decreases. I check my math on that,

1349
01:13:58,720 --> 01:14:02,000
Speaker 2: but I do think that's not currently common.

1350
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:05,240
Speaker 6: No, so well, that study that I'm quoting, it was

1351
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:07,240
Speaker 6: done in twenty fourteen. It's a little old, but it's

1352
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:09,439
Speaker 6: the only one I had ta I was just.

1353
01:14:09,280 --> 01:14:10,840
Speaker 2: Going to ask it, do you have a theory like

1354
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:13,160
Speaker 2: why he would shoot? Like is it a way to

1355
01:14:13,320 --> 01:14:15,439
Speaker 2: keep separated or further from your victims?

1356
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:15,760
Speaker 11: Yeah?

1357
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:16,799
Speaker 2: I wish they would have gone.

1358
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:19,320
Speaker 6: So this is I have some critiques of the documentary,

1359
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:21,840
Speaker 6: and this is one of them. I kind of wish

1360
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:24,479
Speaker 6: they would have gone because, quite frankly that I didn't

1361
01:14:24,479 --> 01:14:26,800
Speaker 6: really learn anything in this documentary. There wasn't like any

1362
01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:31,840
Speaker 6: groundbreaking information. It was interesting to hear from David Burkowitz

1363
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:34,880
Speaker 6: directly via the tapes and the journalists that sat with him,

1364
01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:38,519
Speaker 6: was very interesting, but I didn't really learn anything new,

1365
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:40,679
Speaker 6: and I kind of wish they would have gone into

1366
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:45,559
Speaker 6: this idea of his modusaparonde, which was a gun, so

1367
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:48,360
Speaker 6: a gun used by a silver a gun used by

1368
01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:52,680
Speaker 6: a serial killer. Ken suggest motives like financial gain and

1369
01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:55,880
Speaker 6: things like that, but that's not what David Burkowitz was doing, right,

1370
01:14:56,439 --> 01:14:59,160
Speaker 6: He didn't kill anybody for money, right, it was a

1371
01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:00,400
Speaker 6: hitma gun.

1372
01:15:00,320 --> 01:15:02,839
Speaker 2: Also, you know, so it's very interesting.

1373
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:05,840
Speaker 6: It feels like it's more hands off, right, it feels

1374
01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:09,719
Speaker 6: like it's less involved than like a typical strangulation that's.

1375
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:16,000
Speaker 2: Intimate, like so with a knife that is incredibly into

1376
01:15:16,320 --> 01:15:17,639
Speaker 2: your face to face combat.

1377
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:22,120
Speaker 6: Absolutely so, like it's more like a like a strangulation

1378
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:28,120
Speaker 6: or a stabbing. It's associated with power and control, where

1379
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:32,320
Speaker 6: as like a gun usually involves like drug dealing, a

1380
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:37,160
Speaker 6: hitman of some kind, financial game, but it's very hands off.

1381
01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:39,640
Speaker 2: You don't have a bloody He talked about this.

1382
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:41,639
Speaker 5: I don't know, I know, I know, Boddy, you said

1383
01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:46,720
Speaker 5: that you wish they'd covered it more, and I will also, Yeah, right,

1384
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:49,559
Speaker 5: they did. They definitely did cover his mo O and

1385
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:55,519
Speaker 5: talking about how indeed his childhood those therapy sessions did

1386
01:15:55,840 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 5: he said, oh, I realized I felt better when I

1387
01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:01,320
Speaker 5: had this, and you know, there was some form of

1388
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:03,280
Speaker 5: control by the way, and all right.

1389
01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:05,760
Speaker 2: There you should also just learn from that. Let's not

1390
01:16:05,800 --> 01:16:09,000
Speaker 2: do that anymore. Like that was a thing, the therapy

1391
01:16:09,040 --> 01:16:11,679
Speaker 2: thing that the little God they don't do that anymore.

1392
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:15,360
Speaker 2: I don't think really all therapists don't do that anymore.

1393
01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:17,960
Speaker 6: It's like it's called like play displacement or something. Maybe

1394
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:19,920
Speaker 6: we can we can get a therapist to call us

1395
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:22,680
Speaker 6: at us now it's like play therapy or something. They

1396
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:24,040
Speaker 6: don't I don't think they do it anymore.

1397
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:28,439
Speaker 2: Mm. Yeah, I'd be cure. We should get an expert

1398
01:16:28,479 --> 01:16:33,200
Speaker 2: because I'm yeah, I think I'll look into that because

1399
01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:35,200
Speaker 2: I would like to know a little bit. Well, there's

1400
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:38,439
Speaker 2: a million therapists out there, so people do different types

1401
01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:41,360
Speaker 2: of therapy, and we should all agree that that one

1402
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:42,320
Speaker 2: was not productive.

1403
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:45,559
Speaker 5: Right, certainly not for him. It's hard to imagine who

1404
01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:49,519
Speaker 5: it would be good for. But I actually did learn

1405
01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:51,559
Speaker 5: a lot. I think for this doc, it depends upon

1406
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:54,200
Speaker 5: your knowledge base you're coming into it with. That's true,

1407
01:16:54,240 --> 01:16:58,080
Speaker 5: and body, you had a strong knowledge base. I did

1408
01:16:58,160 --> 01:16:58,800
Speaker 5: not at all.

1409
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:01,479
Speaker 2: Even you were in the utero.

1410
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:04,679
Speaker 5: You were in you were a baby in a belly,

1411
01:17:05,040 --> 01:17:06,320
Speaker 5: the same age as Courtney.

1412
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:09,080
Speaker 2: Yeah we're the same. But you studied the case and

1413
01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:11,240
Speaker 2: I danced. True, So that's all it is.

1414
01:17:11,439 --> 01:17:16,559
Speaker 5: Yeah, So I I had no idea, And also I

1415
01:17:16,600 --> 01:17:21,080
Speaker 5: thought the doc went quite a bit into the whole

1416
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:24,519
Speaker 5: his backstory and the I thought it.

1417
01:17:24,439 --> 01:17:27,759
Speaker 2: Was a little too much. Honestly, it was very heavy.

1418
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:32,080
Speaker 2: It was very fast story. Really really, I just thought

1419
01:17:32,120 --> 01:17:35,400
Speaker 2: that was Listen, I'm a little obsessed with the origin story, okay,

1420
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:38,960
Speaker 2: right or wrong. I also just want to know, like,

1421
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:42,960
Speaker 2: where the you know, we make chocolate chip cookies and

1422
01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:47,000
Speaker 2: sometimes a batch turns out a little awkward and not

1423
01:17:47,200 --> 01:17:51,320
Speaker 2: so delicious. What were the ingredients that happened at that

1424
01:17:51,479 --> 01:17:57,040
Speaker 2: time that made something go awry, that potentially could have

1425
01:17:57,120 --> 01:18:02,479
Speaker 2: caused this horrendous chain of events, you know, Betty described it.

1426
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:06,679
Speaker 2: Everybody was scared. My Oma, my grandmother also from Queens,

1427
01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:09,200
Speaker 2: New York. We used to spend our time there. I

1428
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:12,960
Speaker 2: you know, listen, she's not here to ask her about

1429
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:16,439
Speaker 2: that experience. But this is a New York story, and

1430
01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:19,880
Speaker 2: I can only imagine it was harrowing for so many

1431
01:18:20,479 --> 01:18:23,360
Speaker 2: I want to know why. Let's go back in time. Yeah,

1432
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:27,320
Speaker 2: you can spend hours talking about a person's where they

1433
01:18:27,320 --> 01:18:28,560
Speaker 2: came from.

1434
01:18:28,240 --> 01:18:31,400
Speaker 6: Though, I thought it jumped around too much, right, Like

1435
01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:33,400
Speaker 6: I thought, I kind of wanted it to be told

1436
01:18:33,439 --> 01:18:37,040
Speaker 6: more linear, like this happened, then this happened, then this happened.

1437
01:18:37,040 --> 01:18:40,040
Speaker 6: Then that happened. I feel like we got some of

1438
01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:43,160
Speaker 6: his childhood, then they would jump to current times, and

1439
01:18:43,200 --> 01:18:44,800
Speaker 6: then we would get some more of his childhood, then

1440
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:47,640
Speaker 6: they would jump to like a victim. I just I

1441
01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:48,479
Speaker 6: was like, what's going on?

1442
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:49,920
Speaker 2: Oh see? I like that.

1443
01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:52,400
Speaker 5: I liked it and I had I had no problems

1444
01:18:52,439 --> 01:18:53,920
Speaker 5: with the graphics that they used.

1445
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:54,840
Speaker 2: It really set the.

1446
01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:58,880
Speaker 5: Stage and I it made it easy to follow. And honestly,

1447
01:18:58,920 --> 01:19:01,800
Speaker 5: if you would have stabbed all of his backstory, even

1448
01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:04,400
Speaker 5: though stuff and he said you couldn't get enough, I could.

1449
01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:07,400
Speaker 2: Would have been like an hour. I agree, I ate

1450
01:19:07,439 --> 01:19:09,920
Speaker 2: it up. So do you really? Yeah? I ate it up.

1451
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:12,519
Speaker 6: You're right, Courtney, it would have been a really long

1452
01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:14,760
Speaker 6: irpreciating I yeah, you're right.

1453
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:19,000
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just listen. I didn't. I didn't

1454
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:19,960
Speaker 2: hate the documentary.

1455
01:19:20,040 --> 01:19:22,160
Speaker 6: I just I'm only going to give it two stars

1456
01:19:22,160 --> 01:19:25,720
Speaker 6: out of five, two stars out of two, body stars.

1457
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:31,880
Speaker 2: Out of five. I just it was, uh a pretty

1458
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:35,280
Speaker 2: okay display. What are we going to watch next? We

1459
01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:39,800
Speaker 2: all to do the stars and what do we all

1460
01:19:39,840 --> 01:19:40,439
Speaker 2: have to do our?

1461
01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:41,160
Speaker 10: Yeah?

1462
01:19:41,479 --> 01:19:43,240
Speaker 2: How many stars out of five did you give? Son

1463
01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:46,840
Speaker 2: of Sam? No, we don't do that. I'm going to

1464
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:50,439
Speaker 2: listen to Top. I'm going to listen to Top because I listen.

1465
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:51,360
Speaker 2: We're coming up.

1466
01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:54,840
Speaker 5: We have one minute and I have something so important everybody.

1467
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:59,680
Speaker 5: Next up, we are going to be watching Don't f

1468
01:20:00,080 --> 01:20:04,200
Speaker 5: with Kats with our very very own body.

1469
01:20:04,400 --> 01:20:08,800
Speaker 2: Mony is not my idea stamping on the table. We're

1470
01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:09,720
Speaker 2: so excited.

1471
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:14,640
Speaker 5: This is Stephanie and I ended up meeting Body and

1472
01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:16,040
Speaker 5: listens so good though.

1473
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:19,000
Speaker 2: I think we talked about it quite a bit. Everybody,

1474
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:23,240
Speaker 2: if you haven't seen it, my recommendation is that we

1475
01:20:23,280 --> 01:20:26,240
Speaker 2: should all watch it. Right so it's really a satisfying

1476
01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:30,800
Speaker 2: watch too. It does check every box. It also is

1477
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:35,320
Speaker 2: a great explanation for why we're all obsessed with each other,

1478
01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:39,200
Speaker 2: and also just sort of we talk about it a lot.

1479
01:20:39,400 --> 01:20:43,320
Speaker 2: So my recommendation is that we all watch it. Whether

1480
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:46,800
Speaker 2: you have already watch it. Again, it's the end of

1481
01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:49,679
Speaker 2: the night. Somehow, let's go straight toward talk bath.

1482
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:52,840
Speaker 12: Hi, it's Tenna from Australia. You were talking about what

1483
01:20:53,000 --> 01:20:55,559
Speaker 12: got you into true crime and I just thought i'd

1484
01:20:55,640 --> 01:20:59,639
Speaker 12: like to mention that the part two massacre Pop Past

1485
01:20:59,800 --> 01:21:02,840
Speaker 12: was got me into podcasts. I was always like, oh no,

1486
01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:07,240
Speaker 12: that's for old people. I absolutely adored that podcast and

1487
01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:10,120
Speaker 12: you guys just have the best voices for it. And

1488
01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:12,440
Speaker 12: I just want to send out some love from Australia

1489
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:12,920
Speaker 12: for that one.

1490
01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:18,960
Speaker 2: Let's sweet. We're working on the last edition also, Courtney,

1491
01:21:19,000 --> 01:21:24,320
Speaker 2: I'm strong shout out to the voice of Yeah, there's

1492
01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:28,200
Speaker 2: another one coming. That's so nice. That's so nice for listening.

1493
01:21:28,720 --> 01:21:31,280
Speaker 6: Yes, thank you for the talk pack. So yeah, next

1494
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:34,240
Speaker 6: to next Wednesday, we'll be doing True Crime Chill again.

1495
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:37,040
Speaker 6: It is going to be Donut with Cats. And by

1496
01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:38,439
Speaker 6: the way, it was not my idea and I don't

1497
01:21:38,439 --> 01:21:40,120
Speaker 6: get any money for it or anything like that, Like

1498
01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:42,360
Speaker 6: Body Movement is not making money from the.

1499
01:21:42,400 --> 01:21:45,000
Speaker 2: Brain goes nobody. I just wanted to know, like this

1500
01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:48,320
Speaker 2: wasn't like my you know, I was getting paid cash

1501
01:21:48,479 --> 01:21:50,560
Speaker 2: to talk to cats.

1502
01:21:50,360 --> 01:21:52,479
Speaker 6: You know, I mean watching it doesn't put pennies in

1503
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:54,799
Speaker 6: my pocket, is what I'm saying, you know, like I don't.

1504
01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:58,400
Speaker 2: Get money from that. Everybody knows that that's not the case.

1505
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:00,880
Speaker 2: By the way, it's really good. It is good. It

1506
01:22:00,920 --> 01:22:04,559
Speaker 2: really is. I can say this in such an unbiased way, Courtney,

1507
01:22:04,600 --> 01:22:07,000
Speaker 2: I'm speaking for both of us right now. It's excellent.

1508
01:22:07,160 --> 01:22:10,560
Speaker 2: It's an excellent documentary and we talk about it a lot.

1509
01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:13,240
Speaker 6: And you know, my inbox is full of people who

1510
01:22:13,280 --> 01:22:14,960
Speaker 6: are like, what was this and what did you mean

1511
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:16,880
Speaker 6: by this? And what happened here and what happened there?

1512
01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:18,840
Speaker 6: This is your chance asking me anything.

1513
01:22:19,360 --> 01:22:21,920
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, and actually, if you want to start those,

1514
01:22:22,400 --> 01:22:26,000
Speaker 5: start the talkbacks now and be your calendar to call in.

1515
01:22:26,120 --> 01:22:28,840
Speaker 2: But I'm tiped in too, by the way, A long

1516
01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:32,920
Speaker 2: roll anything about Pike, the piked In massacre podcast or

1517
01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:36,840
Speaker 2: documentary or anything with donf with cats, slow roll Idaho

1518
01:22:36,960 --> 01:22:41,280
Speaker 2: massacre airing. Now keep the questions coming. You are at

1519
01:22:41,320 --> 01:22:46,200
Speaker 2: your fingertips or you're a literally one one message away

1520
01:22:46,439 --> 01:22:48,519
Speaker 2: for maybe we could do maybe we could do the

1521
01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:52,280
Speaker 2: Idaho student murderers. So yeah, of course, any listen. I

1522
01:22:52,360 --> 01:22:54,080
Speaker 2: don't talk about it because again I don't want to

1523
01:22:54,120 --> 01:22:56,599
Speaker 2: seem like I'm see now you know what I'm saying,

1524
01:22:56,680 --> 01:22:59,360
Speaker 2: and I say I didn't do the do'nuff. Now you

1525
01:22:59,400 --> 01:23:01,360
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. I think about all day. You know,

1526
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:04,320
Speaker 2: I work on all day, and I just I'm like, no,

1527
01:23:04,479 --> 01:23:06,960
Speaker 2: it's a little bit, don't talk about it anymore. So

1528
01:23:07,640 --> 01:23:08,439
Speaker 2: you know it's coming.

1529
01:23:08,640 --> 01:23:10,599
Speaker 5: Well, I think what we should talk about is the

1530
01:23:10,640 --> 01:23:13,280
Speaker 5: main thing I took away from that lovely talk back

1531
01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:17,639
Speaker 5: from Australia is the p s a that podcasts are

1532
01:23:17,720 --> 01:23:19,120
Speaker 5: not just for old people.

1533
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:27,400
Speaker 2: So that is my granny should kill that Granny's come on,

1534
01:23:27,479 --> 01:23:29,719
Speaker 2: I think we had a deep dive. I wanted to say,

1535
01:23:30,000 --> 01:23:32,479
Speaker 2: free granny because she could not have possible do this.

1536
01:23:33,280 --> 01:23:36,439
Speaker 2: She's innocent, she could not have been crazy. I'm kidding.

1537
01:23:36,439 --> 01:23:40,599
Speaker 2: Stephanie smummed to no, but like, how could this be?

1538
01:23:41,720 --> 01:23:45,479
Speaker 2: So she was trying to escape the country this one.

1539
01:23:45,920 --> 01:23:49,479
Speaker 5: I just want everyone to stop embroiling hordes of people

1540
01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:50,400
Speaker 5: in their crimes.

1541
01:23:52,040 --> 01:23:55,640
Speaker 2: Is going down in flames with you granny and.

1542
01:23:56,120 --> 01:23:59,920
Speaker 5: The loose girlfriend of her son and the girlfriend's ex boy.

1543
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:05,840
Speaker 2: We do how many degrees? Yes, because there's more brad

1544
01:24:05,960 --> 01:24:08,160
Speaker 2: grannies where this came from. By the way, this is

1545
01:24:08,160 --> 01:24:11,320
Speaker 2: not the first of these terrible grannies that are doing

1546
01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:12,200
Speaker 2: bad things.

1547
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:15,440
Speaker 5: On behalf of their want a deep dive, Dirty grannies,

1548
01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:21,240
Speaker 5: dirty green Angela Wagner the Python message, Yeah, oh yeah,

1549
01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:23,120
Speaker 5: talk about.

1550
01:24:24,320 --> 01:24:27,760
Speaker 2: She's in jail right, mm hmmm, oh yeah, she'll be

1551
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:30,800
Speaker 2: out in thirty years though, so rest assured and really

1552
01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:36,600
Speaker 2: you know justice well and again don'nut with cats. Watch it.

1553
01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:40,160
Speaker 6: You have until Wednesday. There's three episodes. I am amazing

1554
01:24:40,160 --> 01:24:42,880
Speaker 6: in it, obviously, No, I'm kidding. Yes, but leave us

1555
01:24:42,880 --> 01:24:46,160
Speaker 6: a talk back. I'll answer all your questions and then

1556
01:24:46,160 --> 01:24:47,080
Speaker 6: we'll pick something else.

1557
01:24:46,920 --> 01:24:50,479
Speaker 2: For the next week. And guys, listen, tomorrow's Thursday. We

1558
01:24:50,560 --> 01:24:53,200
Speaker 2: are on the eve or the pre eve is it?

1559
01:24:53,240 --> 01:24:57,360
Speaker 2: What's what happens before holiday? You're on the precipice, yes,

1560
01:24:57,560 --> 01:25:01,080
Speaker 2: a holidays. So we're coming up to Labor Day weekend.

1561
01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:05,920
Speaker 2: Tomorrow is our Thursday prior to the weekend, So make

1562
01:25:05,960 --> 01:25:08,200
Speaker 2: sure you come here. We're so excited to have you.

1563
01:25:08,240 --> 01:25:10,800
Speaker 2: This is True Crime Tonight, talking true crime all the time.