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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. All right, we need

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Speaker 1: to get an update on China, and when we do that,

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Speaker 1: we go to one person and one person only. That's

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Speaker 1: Leland Mellon Miller, CEO of China Basebook International. Leland, thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us here. You know, I guess

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Speaker 1: as we look to China here, we really have to

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Speaker 1: start with are they open? Are they closed? Our certain

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Speaker 1: regions open, are certain regions closed? Can you give us

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Speaker 1: an overview kind of where we are right now with

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Speaker 1: China and its economy. Yeah, I think that's the right

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Speaker 1: question to be asking, because you know, China just came

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Speaker 1: out with its first quarter results and and and they

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Speaker 1: surprise a lot of people, not us, because you know,

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Speaker 1: we had seen some some strength in January and February.

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Speaker 1: But the but the real dynamy I make that people

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Speaker 1: should be tracking is the fact that the economy is

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Speaker 1: just shutting down, and it's not because there's a COVID outbreak.

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Speaker 1: It's to prevent the COVID outbreaks. It's part of this

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Speaker 1: COVID zero policy. And you're seeing with what a lot

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Speaker 1: of people are saying is around g d P shutdown.

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Speaker 1: Almost all the major ports are either shut down or

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Speaker 1: massively backlog because there's a potential lockdown in progress. So

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Speaker 1: you've got you've got a real problem. The March data

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Speaker 1: showed a little bit of this, but April you know,

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Speaker 1: I've said this before, but Aprilo is going to be

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Speaker 1: the most important month for schids is January because the

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Speaker 1: extent of the lockdowns are to dictate just how gruesome

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Speaker 1: economic growth could potentially fall on the second quarter. So

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Speaker 1: how what kind of drop do you expect? I mean,

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Speaker 1: can you give us a range? Well, look, if if

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Speaker 1: we see some of these big city lockdowns, and we're

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Speaker 1: not talking about just Shanghai, but the two of the

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Speaker 1: biggest cities in in in you know, down south in

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Speaker 1: Guangdong Province are are are under either uh you know,

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Speaker 1: the beginnings of a lockdown or or or or a

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Speaker 1: lockdown already. Uh you know, we see this continue and

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Speaker 1: at last more than one or two weeks. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you could see a quarter with negative growth. Now that

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean they're gonna announce it, but it just means that,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you're shutting down most of the economy

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Speaker 1: for a huge chunk of the quarter, you know, you

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Speaker 1: could have some real problems with trying to get the

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Speaker 1: number out of the gutter? So Leland, is there any

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Speaker 1: pushback or pressure or from folks saying, hey, this is

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Speaker 1: not the right COVID strategy here, the zero tolerance. I mean,

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Speaker 1: maybe it worked in the beginning, but boy, with these

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Speaker 1: you know, increasingly contagious variants, Uh, maybe not so much.

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Speaker 1: Is there any push back on this policy? Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: individuals across China don't like the policy at all. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think anecdotally it's hard to find anyone who is

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Speaker 1: supportive of the of the draconian extent that this lockdown

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Speaker 1: has you know, has hit. But that's not the way

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Speaker 1: China works. That it's dictated from the top down. And

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Speaker 1: She Jin Ping wants to lockdowns, and he's doubled down

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Speaker 1: that recently on the radio, and senior policy makers in

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Speaker 1: the last few days have had tripled down on it.

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Speaker 1: So they're not moving away from COVID zero anytime soon,

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Speaker 1: no matter what the worries about economic growth and and

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Speaker 1: other things are absolutely secondary to the general fears that

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Speaker 1: they could have a major outbreak in the rural populations

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Speaker 1: amongst the elderly and particularly underserved populations that don't have

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Speaker 1: hospital capacity. And that's what they're really fearing, like a

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Speaker 1: disaster during a politically sensitive year. So there's I mean,

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Speaker 1: because it matters how much support j and Ping has

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Speaker 1: amongst the population. But I guess his his play right

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Speaker 1: now is I'd rather have them um perturbed with me

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Speaker 1: over a lockdown than you know, ousting me over you know,

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Speaker 1: a pandemic that overflows hospitals nationwide. Right, I mean, what

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Speaker 1: he's trying to do, he's looking at the worst case

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Speaker 1: scenario and trying to take that off the table, and

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Speaker 1: then the next priority is to take the next level

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Speaker 1: of bad case scenario and trying to take that off

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Speaker 1: the table. What I don't think people understand right now,

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Speaker 1: because they're obsessing over the you know, the growth rate

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Speaker 1: and and and GDP targets and things like that, is

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Speaker 1: that that's just not high on the priority list right now.

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Speaker 1: You know that that's usually what the leadership in Beijing

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Speaker 1: is obsessed with. But during this year, during a time

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Speaker 1: where the the outbreak could spread out of control and

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Speaker 1: cause havoc in the run up to the Party Congress

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Speaker 1: is fall, that's not. Economic growth is not the priority.

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Speaker 1: Stability is, security is, safety is and getting COVID under control.

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Speaker 1: Do they feel like they can always bring back economic

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Speaker 1: growth with the right kind of stimulus and and have

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Speaker 1: they been enacting stimulus programs that that you would expect. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what gets so interesting. So so they have not

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Speaker 1: been doing stimulus. You know, about a year ago we said, look,

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Speaker 1: the economic growth models changed, the stimulus playbooks changed. You

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Speaker 1: can see this in our data. There's just nothing percolating

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Speaker 1: underneath the surface in terms of them getting ready to

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Speaker 1: do a more active credit policy. And and a lot

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Speaker 1: of people fought back and said, no, no, no, we

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Speaker 1: understand the way China works. We understand this is a

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Speaker 1: party congress here. They always go big in a party

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Speaker 1: com this year and that was the wrong call that

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Speaker 1: this is a different regime, this is a different kind

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Speaker 1: of economic policy making. Now, the problem you have on

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Speaker 1: top of that right now is if if most of

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Speaker 1: the economy are a big chunk of the economy is

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Speaker 1: locked down, how do you stimulate it even if you

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Speaker 1: want to? So they have a question do they want

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Speaker 1: to stimulate? But even if they choose to, which they

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Speaker 1: have not yet chosen to, can they make it work? Leland?

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Speaker 1: Just thirty seconds left. Is there any risk to she

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Speaker 1: right now? I know you mentioned a uh political year. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't think so. Look, you know, there's no evidence

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Speaker 1: that this is affecting she's standing. But you know, we're

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Speaker 1: on the cusp of a very very big things happening

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Speaker 1: right now. So he needs to get COVID under control

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Speaker 1: and they need to get you know, economic growth back

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Speaker 1: up the second half of the year. But no, I'm

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Speaker 1: not seeing any immediate short term threats to his his governance.

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Speaker 1: All right, Leland, good stuff, Thank you very much for

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Speaker 1: your time. Again when we want to get the latest

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Speaker 1: on what's going on in China politically economically. Returned to

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Speaker 1: Leland Miller. He's a CEO of the China beij Book International,

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Speaker 1: and boy, they have some of the best data sets

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Speaker 1: proprietary data sets, over a hundred thousand unique data sets

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Speaker 1: on all parts of the Chinese economy if you want

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Speaker 1: to know what's going on over there and maybe get

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Speaker 1: the real numbers as to economic growth in other areas.

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Speaker 1: The good folks at the China Beige Book are the

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Speaker 1: ones to go to Netflix today off year to date.

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Speaker 1: You know, Matt, When I was covering the stock as

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Speaker 1: an analyst, I said to folks, Netflix is a subscriber

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Speaker 1: growth story. As long as subscribers continue to grow and

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Speaker 1: hopefully at an increasing rate, stock works. Nothing's gonna stop it.

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Speaker 1: But when the growth rate slows, or god forbid, it

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Speaker 1: even goes negative, you don't want to be anywhere near this.

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Speaker 1: It's the exact same call I had on America Online

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Speaker 1: back in the early nineties and it pretty much worked. Uh,

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Speaker 1: but we got a pro on right now, Michael Nathanson,

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Speaker 1: I have an apology you do to make to Michael Nathanson. Michael,

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Speaker 1: I have to say I've been reading your research for

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Speaker 1: years and Craig's as well, and for some reason today

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Speaker 1: I quoted you as Nathan moffattson. Maybe that sounds pretty good, Michael,

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Speaker 1: what's your course? I corrected it right away. Michael Nathanson

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Speaker 1: and Craig Moffitt founded Moffatt Nathanson. Is that right, that's correct,

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Speaker 1: almost nine and a half years ago. Yeah, and before

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Speaker 1: that they were top analysts at Where's It Bernstein and

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Speaker 1: things like that. Just some smart dudes, and we always

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Speaker 1: appreciate getting a few minutes of their time. Michael thirty

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Speaker 1: foot view. I want your perspective. What are we seeing today?

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Speaker 1: How are you viewing this company, this stock and this space.

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Speaker 1: You know, Paul, you know you brought that reference to

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Speaker 1: a O L. This is not a L because there

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Speaker 1: was a lot of fraud and you well, we know,

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Speaker 1: but you remember the stock right that when people get

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Speaker 1: these transformational businesses, I don't know how to value them,

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Speaker 1: They don't know how to think about them, so they

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Speaker 1: get super amped up about the longterm growth opportunity to

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Speaker 1: listen to everything. Management says they trust their models more

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Speaker 1: than they trust their logic. Um, and so I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: about this is you know, this is natural. As you said,

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Speaker 1: you know, at some point companies can't raise pricing anymore,

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Speaker 1: they can't add more songs, and then they have to pivot. Um.

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Speaker 1: What surprising me is that just the lack of preparation

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Speaker 1: in the pivot right, And that's I think what keep

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Speaker 1: are reacting to when they read that investor letter and

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Speaker 1: watched the interview, Like, wow, these guys steam a surprised

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Speaker 1: at anyone about what's happening and why wouldn't they know

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Speaker 1: more about their business then even those you know, slow

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Speaker 1: south side analysts, you know, So what what did happen that? Um?

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Speaker 1: You know, it was such a sudden shock to everyone.

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Speaker 1: And um, now of course we were talking about this earlier. UM,

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Speaker 1: they used to think people stealing accounts or passwords was

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Speaker 1: just the cost of doing business. Now they're like, oh, man,

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Speaker 1: there's a hundred million households they are paying. We need

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Speaker 1: to get like a portion of them. Yeah, Like it's

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Speaker 1: really interesting. So we we've asked over and over again

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Speaker 1: like what is what's going on within the US and

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Speaker 1: why do you why are you so bullish about you know,

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Speaker 1: how much more of the US can grow there at

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Speaker 1: seventy million or so? And they never acknowledge that there

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Speaker 1: was this much password sharing with it within the US. UM.

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Speaker 1: But if you add the pastor share in too the

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Speaker 1: U S base, you're like, wow, you're really are at

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Speaker 1: where the U S p TV market hit a wall,

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Speaker 1: which is a hundred million subs. So the challenge is

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Speaker 1: going to be you know, people like me who pay,

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Speaker 1: you know, not almost twenty bucks a month for four

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Speaker 1: Simultan streams. And I'm thinking, you know, maybe that's something

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Speaker 1: that's allowed for my you know, college age kids or

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Speaker 1: when I travel. The question is, you know, how are

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Speaker 1: they gonna get me to actually now pay for someone

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Speaker 1: who's out of my house, like a college student who's

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Speaker 1: using my account but he's a household member. Right. It's

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Speaker 1: like to me, there's a real question. This is why

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Speaker 1: they even so reluctant to do it, because it does

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Speaker 1: create some ill will, right, Like I've always paid more

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Speaker 1: for Netflix for the optionality used on the road or

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Speaker 1: have other family members, you was it out of the house,

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Speaker 1: But now what's the rule? And I just think they're

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Speaker 1: they're the devil's gonna in the details here and it

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Speaker 1: could create some ill will, and I think that's why

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Speaker 1: they haven't wanted to change. Well and is it is

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Speaker 1: it going to be difficult because I, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: have a Netflix account and I have four brothers who

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Speaker 1: live all in different parts of the world. I don't

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Speaker 1: know for sure, but I'm pretty sure when I see

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Speaker 1: like most watched or recent history. I'm like, I didn't,

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Speaker 1: I didn't watch that. You know, I'm pretty sure one

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Speaker 1: of my kid brothers is using it. And Netflix must know,

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Speaker 1: right when my password is being used simultaneously in Berlin,

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Speaker 1: Scarsdale and l A. Right, don't they get that? Yes,

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Speaker 1: they do get that, and it's one of it was

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Speaker 1: one of the value adds, right, like, hey, we don't

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Speaker 1: you know, let's look the other way. We're charging twenty bucks.

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Speaker 1: It's worth it, you guys a lot of the product.

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Speaker 1: But now they're running out of room. Right, So the

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Speaker 1: question is gonna be if if you're paying for the

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Speaker 1: four sound town of streams and only they're two in

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Speaker 1: your house, well, you're gonna spin down. And will your

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Speaker 1: family members actually want to pay for it? Like, we

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Speaker 1: don't know, they're happy to get it for free. Um,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's definitely it opens up a bunch of questions, right,

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Speaker 1: And look, if the stock was cheaper, and it's definitely

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Speaker 1: getting cheaper, I would have some optionality. I bet on

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Speaker 1: the optionality of that. But we're still working our way

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Speaker 1: through kind of what the right right pricing is the

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Speaker 1: model that we see in front of us, Right, it's

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Speaker 1: getting cheaper. So you think it's getting it's getting cheaper,

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Speaker 1: because a little bit later we're gonna talk to Laura Martin.

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Speaker 1: She's like the soul analyst on the street who's upgraded

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Speaker 1: in Yeah. Well yeah, to our credit, she was even

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Speaker 1: more negative than I was. She just selling stock. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to I mean basically it's gonna it's gonna

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Speaker 1: get cheaper because as you know, you're going from this

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Speaker 1: growth stock to growth purgatory, right, and as it gets

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Speaker 1: to the value, we camp you need cash onw and

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Speaker 1: earnings to have people come in and buy it. You're

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Speaker 1: kind of in this nowhere land, right, and this is

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Speaker 1: our reference kind of where you know you you noted

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Speaker 1: it that you know twenty years ago we saw the

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Speaker 1: same thing and it just takes a while for investor

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Speaker 1: bass to turn over because there's a lot of evaluation

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Speaker 1: support on things like cash flow. It's going to just

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Speaker 1: take a while, right, New people show up, and so

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Speaker 1: it's it's you know, I think they need to have

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Speaker 1: better answers on how they're gonna roll out the passer

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Speaker 1: cheering and the ad model. Like it seems like again

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Speaker 1: like they were not prepared. Yeah, that's that's kind of

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Speaker 1: what it came across to me. So we'll see how

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Speaker 1: this plays out. Michael Nathanson, founding partner and senior Research

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Speaker 1: Channels MOFA. Nathan's all right, let's check in on the economy.

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Speaker 1: Here are we getting a recession this year and next year?

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Speaker 1: It's checking with Brad Dalmon, chief economists for Courtland. Um. Brad,

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Speaker 1: you know, one of the things when we think about

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Speaker 1: this economy, what has really struck me is how strong

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Speaker 1: the housing market has been really since day one of

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Speaker 1: this pandemic. And we got some new housing starts a

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Speaker 1: couple of days ago were that were very strong. What's

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Speaker 1: your view? Is this market peaked? Are we going to

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Speaker 1: roll over a little bit in terms of just real

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Speaker 1: estate in this country? You think you be a peak

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Speaker 1: of sorts? Right? You've seen the mortgage rates go up,

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Speaker 1: but you can already see indications that the housing market's

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Speaker 1: gonna cool a little bit, if it's slowing home price appreciation,

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Speaker 1: if it's more supply starting to pick up on the market.

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Speaker 1: Um So, in that sense, as certainly a peak, but

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Speaker 1: I don't think anybody's expecting home prices to come down structurally.

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Speaker 1: Is so we also saw a drop in existing home sales.

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Speaker 1: But that's just because there's not enough inventory, well not

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Speaker 1: just because it's also due to rising mortgage rates. What

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Speaker 1: kind of effect is that going to have? Especially if

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Speaker 1: what are we at right now four and a half

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Speaker 1: almost five percent, What if mortgage rades get to six

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Speaker 1: or seven, I think we'll see a demonsta will flow

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Speaker 1: down and activity. There's been a big narrative that a

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Speaker 1: lot of the upward pressure at home prices has been

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Speaker 1: because of low listed inventory. Now it's think we'll see

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Speaker 1: just how that theory is tested when mortgage rates do

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Speaker 1: go up. I think a lot of people will be

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Speaker 1: shocked to see just how quickly home price appreciation slows down.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe more inventory hasn't come out, by the way, Brad,

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Speaker 1: because I know multiple people who want to sell but

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Speaker 1: are on the fence about when to do it, and

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Speaker 1: now they're starting to rub their hands together, um about

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Speaker 1: these mortgage rates and worrying, worrying that they waited too long.

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Speaker 1: I would tend to agree with that. I think they

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Speaker 1: probably have if that's really the position they're in. Maybe

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Speaker 1: one exception to that will be you know, we all

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Speaker 1: know about the rate hikes that are expected to be coming.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that first double rate hike will shave fifty basis

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Speaker 1: points off the tenure treasure rate and kind of bring

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Speaker 1: mortgage rates back down for a little bit. All right,

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Speaker 1: So when we talk about, like I guess, new housing construction,

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Speaker 1: what I hear a lot is they're just not building

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Speaker 1: the entry level inventory. Builders are too focused on the

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Speaker 1: McMansions because obviously higher better margin. When we do look

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Speaker 1: at new housing production coming onto the market, are we

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Speaker 1: seeing any entry level It depends on really how you

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Speaker 1: wanted to define it. I mean, all this new construction

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Speaker 1: is going to happen on the margin. It's very difficult

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Speaker 1: to provide this entry level housing without some kind of

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Speaker 1: subsidy of any locations. But we can broaden the scope

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Speaker 1: of what housing really is and we can look to

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Speaker 1: rental housing in many ways as being entry level housing.

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Speaker 1: That to say, for that new household that's going to

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Speaker 1: go out and form. If we look at these healthy

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Speaker 1: starts that just came out, we did actually see an

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Speaker 1: uptick in in five bedroom plus multi family units housing starts.

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Speaker 1: So I think in that sense, we are building that

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Speaker 1: kind of product. And we looked at the ownership side

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Speaker 1: obviously it's a little bit of a different story, all right, Brad,

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Speaker 1: good stuff. Appreciate getting your thoughts here on the overall

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Speaker 1: real estate. We make some great points, by the way,

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Speaker 1: especially when it comes to a rate hike. I'll note

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Speaker 1: this morning Bank America um UH went bullish on US treasuries.

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Speaker 1: They say, now the tenure yield is going to come

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Speaker 1: down to two twenty five really, and right now we're

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Speaker 1: hovering around to nine. And that's the idea, the same

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Speaker 1: thing that Brad said, you know, you get, you get

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Speaker 1: a raid hike, and that attracts that investors to come

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Speaker 1: back in and they bring the yield, push the yields down. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: the ten year treasury two point We were here at

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Speaker 1: two to seven. Interesting, right, Brad Dalman, chief economists for Courtland.

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Speaker 1: You know, Matt. In my career, I've seen a lot

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Speaker 1: of sectors, a lot of stocks that have been subscriber

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Speaker 1: momentum stocks, cable stock, sellier, telephone stocks, America Online back

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Speaker 1: in the day, UH and now Netflix. And boy, when

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Speaker 1: that momentum slows or reverses, you don't want to be

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Speaker 1: anywhere near it. And that's what's happening today. Stocks down

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Speaker 1: thirty six percent off of their earnings print last night.

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Speaker 1: We have one of the smartest people on Wall Street

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Speaker 1: for this stuff, law Martin. She's managing director Senior Media

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Speaker 1: and Internet Analysts at need Hum. Laura Boy tough quarter

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Speaker 1: for the friends at Netflix, but and had find downgrades

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Speaker 1: on Wall Street. But then I see Laura Martin upgrades

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Speaker 1: a stock today. What's your call? Are right? So our

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Speaker 1: call was so we had to sell on it before

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Speaker 1: and now we really like the fact that they've done

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Speaker 1: the inevitable, which is announced in advertising tier. So one

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Speaker 1: of their big problems was that they were sitting in

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Speaker 1: an eighteen dollar price point when they had five competitors

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Speaker 1: at a five dollar price point. And Disney and HBO

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Speaker 1: Max have both announced they're going to have a lower

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Speaker 1: priced ad tier, so this is great. They're catching up.

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Speaker 1: Netflix is catching up, And I think the most important point,

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Speaker 1: Paul is that these Silicon Valley companies have a real

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Speaker 1: not invented here problem, and Netflix needs to look around

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Speaker 1: and see what his competitors are doing better than it

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Speaker 1: and adapt faster. Before everyone has an ad driven tier.

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Speaker 1: They need to get there two years earlier than they

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Speaker 1: did this time. And I'm hoping that this lesson makes

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Speaker 1: some innovative faster based on what other people are already

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Speaker 1: doing the market place. So first of all, um, you

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Speaker 1: got some big props earlier from Michael Nathanson who said

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Speaker 1: you've been right on this stock. Um. And secondly, UM,

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Speaker 1: I wonder what you think about the content. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: obviously there have been some huge drivers for Netflix. I

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Speaker 1: feel like House of Cards may have been the biggest one.

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Speaker 1: It was one of those shows where everybody talked about it,

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Speaker 1: everybody had to see it, and it was just a

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Speaker 1: reason to go out and get Netflix. They've had a

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Speaker 1: few of a few of those shows, um, but it

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Speaker 1: doesn't seem like to have them right now. I mean,

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Speaker 1: nobody's tripping over themselves to get Netflix for Britain right correct.

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Speaker 1: And I think Squid Games was one of those shows.

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Speaker 1: But the problem is is, you know, you're a longtime

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Speaker 1: media analyst with me, and as you know, you know

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Speaker 1: when you drop eight hours of squid Games all at once,

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Speaker 1: somebody can pay for the month and then churn out

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Speaker 1: that's dumb. They should be dropping these once a week

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Speaker 1: and have to and do it mid months, So you

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Speaker 1: have to subscribe for three months to watch with Games

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Speaker 1: eight hours. Absolutely, we're talking about that earlier because I'm

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Speaker 1: noticed Apple TV is doing that right. You have to

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Speaker 1: wait until next Friday to see the following episode of

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Speaker 1: For All Mankind or Slow Horses? Is Netflix had they

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Speaker 1: said anything about going that way? They have not. They've

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Speaker 1: specifically said they're not going to go that way because

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Speaker 1: they think it's a better user experience. But I think

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Speaker 1: they need to start balancing shareholder constituencies. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: they're going to start losing employees because the stock is

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Speaker 1: now down to two eight levels, so everybody who's joined

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Speaker 1: the last four years is making no money on their

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Speaker 1: stock for the indefinite future. So they're going to start

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Speaker 1: losing employees unless they figure out how to make more

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Speaker 1: economics out of the content spend there they have on

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Speaker 1: their balance sheet. Matt, you want to know why. One

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Speaker 1: of the reasons why law Martin's had such a long

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Speaker 1: and successful career on Wall Streets many reasons, very smart research,

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Speaker 1: but not afraid to go against consensus. So what do

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Speaker 1: we see today nine down grades from all across Wall

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Speaker 1: Street and then we get this upgrade that is out

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Speaker 1: of consensus. That gets attention. Laura, is your upgrade saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, hey, I think they've got it. As it

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Speaker 1: relates to advertising video on demand, Is it based on valuation?

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Speaker 1: How did you kind of come to that, because that's

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Speaker 1: a tough call to make, right. So I think it's

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Speaker 1: based mostly on the fact that I think adding an

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Speaker 1: ad driven TAM doubles their um ad driven t here

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Speaker 1: of doubles their total addressable market and increases their average

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Speaker 1: economics per user, because we are hearing from other firms

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Speaker 1: that adding advertising actually generates more revenue than just whatever

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Speaker 1: your subscription prices. So we actually think that they will

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Speaker 1: have higher value per sub than people than our our

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Speaker 1: competitors think. So, Lauren, you and I we grew up

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Speaker 1: in the media ecosystem where everybody made money the cable systems,

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Speaker 1: that cable networks, I mean, the content creators. The only

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Speaker 1: people that really paid were the consumers, and that was

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Speaker 1: a great economic model for the media ecosystem. Are people

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Speaker 1: questioning whether the streaming ecosystem can be a viable economic model, Yes,

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Speaker 1: they are today. There's three questions. One is how many

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Speaker 1: streamers are they're out there too, Is it a positive

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Speaker 1: return on content capital or is this just going to

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Speaker 1: be a money, losing sinkhole indefinitely UM. And then third,

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Speaker 1: you know what's going on with the unit economics UM

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Speaker 1: for the for individual specific stocks like Netflix is clearly

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Speaker 1: today seen as a loser in the streaming wars, having

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with the total addressable market size. But

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Speaker 1: all those three questions are being asked today, and you know,

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Speaker 1: again when the other stocks are down. Yeah, there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of the other media stocks as well that

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Speaker 1: have made the pivot toward towards streaming. I guess it

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Speaker 1: kind of begs a question of again, these networks, whether

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Speaker 1: you're a broadcast network or cable network and you had

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Speaker 1: a lot of original programming, your programming budgets were a

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Speaker 1: billion five two billion, three billion. Now these streaming services

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Speaker 1: and even the media companies who are supporting streaming services

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Speaker 1: ten billion, fifty billion, twenty billion dollars. Boy, with that

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Speaker 1: cost structure, that fixed cost structure, do we need to

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Speaker 1: see a shake out here in this marketplace? Laura, I

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00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 1: think you get consolidation. Netflix is getting cheaper by the day,

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Speaker 1: but you need to insolidation. So I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: clear winners to date are YouTube and a vaud and

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Speaker 1: advertising driven on a man in the spot which is subscribers.

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Speaker 1: I think the Disney bundle is really compelling. Hulu plus

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Speaker 1: Disney plus plus um SPM plus for ten bucks. Now

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Speaker 1: that's a compelling UM value proposition. And I think this

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Speaker 1: Discovery Warner bundle, when they put all those I think

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Speaker 1: that's really interesting. Um Netflix doesn't have anything interesting so far,

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00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,119
Speaker 1: so it might get bought, or it might have to

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Speaker 1: buy Paramount or something which is a little too small. Now.

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Speaker 1: So I do think you get consolidation, Paul, because these

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Speaker 1: companies are all going to be under margin pressure, and

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Speaker 1: as you know, when you consolidate, you can cut off

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Speaker 1: which helps your earnings. At some point, we'll get to

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Speaker 1: a model where there's one company for each region that

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Speaker 1: puts a set top box in your house and they

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Speaker 1: have all the channels on that box. It sounds kind

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Speaker 1: of like a cable system. It could be called that.

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Speaker 1: You know, analysts like Laura Martin, she has a lot

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Speaker 1: of experience in the spation. She's been right a lot

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Speaker 1: more than she's been wrong. Fantastic career on Wall Street.

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Speaker 1: Laura Martin, Managing Director, Senior Meeting Internet Analysts for need Um.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can

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Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever

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00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 1: podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at Matt Miller three. Put on fall Sweeney I'm on

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