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Speaker 1: Hi, how are you good?

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Speaker 2: How's it gone?

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Speaker 1: It's going? Well? Do you mind if I asked how

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Speaker 1: old you are?

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Speaker 2: Thirty two?

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Speaker 1: You're thirty two? Okay, So.

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Speaker 3: People, I wondered if people that are listening in my

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Speaker 3: fans will be like, wait, why would you have that

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Speaker 3: guy on? You know, like I'm about female empowerment and

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Speaker 3: a lot of women listen and moms, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I have a responsibility to them. And I was thinking

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Speaker 3: as I was walking that you have an intriguing story,

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Speaker 3: even if it's a cautionary tale for someone who could

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Speaker 3: end up being smarter by realizing some of the things

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Speaker 3: that you were accused of or you know. Also, I

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Speaker 3: believe in like letting someone come here and tell their

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Speaker 3: story and not like setting up a trap like I've

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Speaker 3: been on shows where I walk in and they act

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Speaker 3: like they're excited to have me, and then I come

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Speaker 3: on and then they're like, just like it's a booby

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Speaker 3: trap and it's just to make me look like, look,

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Speaker 3: you know, bad, And it's just not either of those things.

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Speaker 1: You're a guest.

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Speaker 3: I respect that, but I want you to be really

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Speaker 3: honest and I want us to really get into this

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Speaker 3: because I think it's an interesting story.

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Speaker 1: So are you cool with that? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Love, how straight to the point you are. Thanks for

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Speaker 2: having me, So let's have some fun and see what

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Speaker 2: we can do.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So you're thirty two, are you close with your parents?

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Speaker 2: Kind of grew up in New Jersey outside the city,

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Speaker 2: but lived in New York since I was eighteen, except

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Speaker 2: for my four year jail vacation.

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Speaker 1: So you had a jail vacation. Where was that all over?

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Speaker 2: I kept getting in trouble, but mostly outside of Detroit, Michigan,

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Speaker 2: so a little bit of ways away from New York.

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Speaker 3: So were you a kid that was always getting in trouble?

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Speaker 3: Like at school we always sort of like getting disciplined

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Speaker 3: and sent to the principal.

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Speaker 2: Always an entrepreneur. I started my first business in seventh

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Speaker 2: grade and had three full time employees and got in

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Speaker 2: trouble when one of them sent me an invitation for

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Speaker 2: his wedding, and my parents like, why is this grown man?

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Speaker 2: Because se him get married?

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Speaker 3: So I think, go, oh wow, okay, And were you

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Speaker 3: did you come from a wealthy family, like.

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Speaker 2: Middle middle upper class like New Jersey suburbs, So.

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Speaker 3: Again you didn't want for anything, but like you weren't rich, right,

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Speaker 3: Your parent parents weren't driving ferraris.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't crazy, got it?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 3: But you went on vacations. You had a decent, normal

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Speaker 3: childhood for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So try to obviously push the boundaries a little

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Speaker 2: bit myself past.

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Speaker 1: That, right. And so where did you go to Did

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Speaker 1: you go to college?

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Speaker 2: I went to a school called Bucknell for almost one year.

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Speaker 2: During my freshman year of college, I became one of

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Speaker 2: the youngest people to raise venture capital. So left college

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Speaker 2: to embark in that tech venture journey and moved to

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Speaker 2: New York trying to make that happen.

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Speaker 3: You were you knew what VC was in college? You

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Speaker 3: were reading about this stuff. How did you know about

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Speaker 3: all this stuff?

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Speaker 2: There was an alumni day and someone told me the

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Speaker 2: word venture capital. And I recently found my notebook from

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Speaker 2: that day, right right, venture capital question mark. So started

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Speaker 2: researching it and trying to figure out what it was

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Speaker 2: and trying to understand who these people were that would

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Speaker 2: back eighteen years like me to kind of give us

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Speaker 2: a chance to build her own business on a much

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Speaker 2: larger scale than I was doing for my bedroom as

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Speaker 2: a kid.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting, and we'll get into it, But like I

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Speaker 3: think about I remember being at a party at Jordan

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Speaker 3: Balfar's house in the Hampton's years ago, and now he's

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Speaker 3: like famous going out and talking, which to me is

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Speaker 3: like I'm mixed about it, because he is smart and

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Speaker 3: he probably could have made money doing anything. But now

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Speaker 3: it's this person who's a criminal who's out there talking

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Speaker 3: and like speaking and getting you know, news events, I

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Speaker 3: mean news shows. And so I think about the fact

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Speaker 3: that it sounds like you were smart, you were motivated,

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Speaker 3: You're an entrepreneur. You could have like gone one way,

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Speaker 3: and it sounds like you want another. So your parents

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Speaker 3: pay for your college for a year, and then you're out,

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Speaker 3: and then what are you doing then? And where are

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Speaker 3: you living and how are you supporting yourself?

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Speaker 2: So raised money for this, tried to build a social

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Speaker 2: networking website for my college drum Room. Raised money for

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Speaker 2: this social networking app, and moved to New York City

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Speaker 2: and was eighteen nineteen. My friends were now sophomores in college,

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Speaker 2: kind of all alone, and I, you know, snuck into

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Speaker 2: a nightclub one night and saw you there. I thought

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Speaker 2: I was the coolest person in the world, and obviously

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Speaker 2: say hi, because it's in the same time there. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was PhD when it first opened at the Dream Hotel.

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Speaker 2: So funny, how yeah fast So I.

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Speaker 3: Remember going there and I've only ever been there once.

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Speaker 3: That was the one up on the roof.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think it was like New Year's the year when

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Speaker 2: you were with your then husband at the time, and

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Speaker 2: being a nineteen year old and all my friends were

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Speaker 2: in college.

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Speaker 1: I thought I was the man, because that's really weird.

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Speaker 3: I feel like I almost remember that. It was like

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Speaker 3: towards the back and you were with your friends. There

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Speaker 3: was a group of guys there, and I looked good

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Speaker 3: that night. I know it sounds crazy, I would looked great.

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Speaker 1: I think I looked good that okay, So wow, okay.

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Speaker 2: Crazy time flies to fast, right, it's insane life.

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Speaker 3: Insurance, it's insane. You were nineteen, Did you have money?

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Speaker 3: Were you making money then?

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Speaker 2: A little bit? You know, I had a small salary.

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Speaker 2: I was taking from my company and did a lot

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Speaker 2: of like you know, fun consulting work and was a hustler, right,

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Speaker 2: and I was nineteen with no responsibilities. So I think

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Speaker 2: it's easier when you're a kid with no family, no spouse,

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Speaker 2: no children to kind of have fun and make your

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Speaker 2: own path.

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Speaker 3: But did you feel like you were finagling a little bit,

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Speaker 3: like in that time when you were coming up, like

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Speaker 3: moving a little too fast and loose, or you were

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Speaker 3: too young and stupid to know.

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Speaker 2: I think I was just hanging out with people who

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Speaker 2: are much older than me. Most of my friends were

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Speaker 2: in school, and I started hanging out with my investors

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Speaker 2: who are fifty sixty year old, and like they're, you know, peers.

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Speaker 1: So I was the young guy, almost.

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Speaker 2: Like the toy in the room where you know, they

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Speaker 2: would take me to the gallows with the dinners and

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Speaker 2: I'd be this like, you know, fun, weird nineteen year

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Speaker 2: old who you know, could provide conversations for ten minutes

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Speaker 2: at the meals. So it's kind of this weird world

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Speaker 2: where I was almost subducted from my childhood or my

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Speaker 2: late childhood years and put into like New York society

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Speaker 2: because I was like weird kid with a tech startup.

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Speaker 3: So it was kind of like, do you think you

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Speaker 3: were hot shit? Did you think you were hot shit?

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Speaker 3: Did you have a fancy car? Were you like getting girls?

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Speaker 3: Were you getting bottles? Did you think you were like

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Speaker 3: a hot stepper?

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Speaker 2: I think it took a couple of years. I definitely

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Speaker 2: thought I was lame for a couple of years. And

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Speaker 2: by the time I was on one or twenty two

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Speaker 2: and you know, had some revenue coming in and making

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Speaker 2: some money, I've definitely embraced that lifestyle that I probably

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Speaker 2: wasn't ready for.

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Speaker 3: And they all liked the marketing of making you this

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Speaker 3: young wonder kin, like you're just like small star athlete

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Speaker 3: that they all know, Like they like, this kid's going

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Speaker 3: to be that a billionaire. Is that the type of

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Speaker 3: thing that was going on with the older guys.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I felt like I had to grow into

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Speaker 2: it right and like in the beginning I was awkward

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Speaker 2: and didn't really know how to talk or hold conversation,

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Speaker 2: and a couple of years later embrace that to try

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Speaker 2: to grow into it and like almost fill those shoes.

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Speaker 1: Do you speak to any of those people now? Uh?

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Speaker 1: Some yes?

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Speaker 2: And I think, like skipping ahead, I went to jail

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Speaker 2: for wire fraud, which basically was lying to a aud

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Speaker 2: these investors to raise money for the fire festival.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so some of those guys with a fire festival investors.

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Speaker 2: Correct, It's like that trust that I violated. I think

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Speaker 2: was the worst part of all of it. I know

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Speaker 2: we'll get there, but that's what kind of hurts me

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Speaker 2: the most.

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Speaker 1: Known and so you actually cared about these people.

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Speaker 3: They were like and and some of them do speak

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Speaker 3: to you, they have a soft spot for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very like, very black and white. Some are like,

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Speaker 2: fuck off, and some are like, we totally get it

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Speaker 2: and what you did was wrong, but we'll give you

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Speaker 2: another chance. So it's it's kind of there's no one,

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Speaker 2: no one's in the middle. It's very it's very visceral.

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Speaker 3: Okay, And I'm sure some of them were hurt. They

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Speaker 3: feel stupid, they're embarrassed for sure. What about your parents?

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Speaker 3: What would they think about you hanging with all these

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Speaker 3: older people, And did they think you were over your skis?

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Speaker 1: Did they say slow down?

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Speaker 3: It's too much like the way the movie Wall Street,

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Speaker 3: Charlie Sheen's father, Martin, yeah, he's Martin Sheen, is like,

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Speaker 3: it's too much fast and loose over here.

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Speaker 2: For sure, you're going too fast. You're taking too many risks,

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Speaker 2: whether that's adrenaline seeking, physical risks, or financial risks. And

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Speaker 2: they like, go to college, you go to school. So

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Speaker 2: I think they just took the complete opposite approach, where

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Speaker 2: it's like, hey, totally pull back, and obviously that kind

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Speaker 2: of propelled me to keep going faster and trying to

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Speaker 2: fight as much rope as I could.

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Speaker 3: And in watching the documentary, which was years ago, I remember,

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Speaker 3: like I'm you seemed like you thought you were the shit,

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Speaker 3: and you are seemed more humbled now, like you definitely

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Speaker 3: have had your ass handed to you for sure.

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Speaker 2: Right, I don't know, never have seen the docks. I

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Speaker 2: think it all just went so fast. The Fire Festival

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Speaker 2: was literally a four month period of announcing this trailer

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Speaker 2: video with the viral social campaign to the actual date

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Speaker 2: of the festival. So I definitely think it's fair to

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Speaker 2: say I was actually like the total asshole for those

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Speaker 2: four months. But in reality, it was like this whirlwind

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Speaker 2: of this craziness and such a period of time that

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Speaker 2: defined my life.

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Speaker 1: Right, it's kind of wild that defines that's your identity now, right, I.

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Speaker 2: Maybe four months as a twenty four year old, which

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Speaker 2: is crazy.

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Speaker 3: So you were twenty four years old, And for those

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Speaker 3: of you who are too young to remember or live

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Speaker 3: under our rock, fire Festival was from my perspective because

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Speaker 3: I'm just going to talk about, like from the outside

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Speaker 3: and something you were just seeing through social media, all

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Speaker 3: these famous people. The Kylie Jenner is the models. Everyone

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Speaker 3: going to this island excited. It's the Fomo. It's the

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Speaker 3: Tart Dubai trip times ten million, It's Coachella, It's all

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Speaker 3: that Revolve festival. It's all that stuff of like douchey

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Speaker 3: people bragging Fomo better than like it's supposed to be aspirational.

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Speaker 3: Look at my outfits, like you know, we're so fabulous

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Speaker 3: and you're not.

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Speaker 1: We're on a boat, we're rich.

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Speaker 3: All that shit piled into one And I read the

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Speaker 3: stat today that it was more viral than Coachella with

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Speaker 3: more impressions, And then you said, then it said, like

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Speaker 3: and there's no third is like way dropped down?

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Speaker 2: Is that? What?

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Speaker 1: Is that accurate?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been the most talked about festival in the

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Speaker 2: world since twenty sixteen and it's never happened, which is

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Speaker 2: kind of wild, right, Like literally the most talked about

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Speaker 2: Thesic festival ever without it ever taking place.

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Speaker 1: And you were partners with jaw Rule and it fucked

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Speaker 1: him up too.

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Speaker 2: We were partners. Yes, I was the only one he

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Speaker 2: went to jail so I think I was the only one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, But so how did you? But he was probably

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Speaker 1: scared he was going to jail.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I think he had gone to jail already,

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Speaker 2: so he knew what he had to do, I think

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Speaker 2: at that point.

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Speaker 1: And were you close with him?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? We were very close friends for maybe three or

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Speaker 2: four year years prior to Fire and Fire Festival, and

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Speaker 2: always knew we'd work together in some capacity and that

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Speaker 2: was the that was the attempt.

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Speaker 1: So how did you meet him?

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Speaker 2: I had a company called Magnesis prior to Fire, and

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Speaker 2: I basically built a events company on top of your

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Speaker 2: credit card. So I bought this black strip of metal

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Speaker 2: from China and would copy people's like shitty Chase debit

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Speaker 2: cards onto this black hunk of metal and then built

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Speaker 2: different benefits you would get on top of the card.

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Speaker 2: And one of the benefits was a lot of these

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Speaker 2: small private concerts we did throughout New York and he

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Speaker 2: was one of the two dozen artists that we booked

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Speaker 2: for these concerts. Just kind of connected through that and

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Speaker 2: became friends.

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Speaker 3: Meaning it was just like a branding vehicle. You were

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Speaker 3: like putting the blush in a better compact and adding

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Speaker 3: some marketing assets too, Is that what you're saying exactly?

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Speaker 2: And then we had twenty five twenty five year olds

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Speaker 2: running around New York with these cards who loved it

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Speaker 2: and then booked a lot of music artists a way

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Speaker 2: just like kind of have fun and get back to them.

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Speaker 1: And why was it so criticized?

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Speaker 3: Because I saw on the dock that it was criticized

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Speaker 3: as if like I forgot exactly what the criticism was,

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Speaker 3: but it was like that there was some fraud there too.

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Speaker 3: There was some perception of fraud there too. There was

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Speaker 3: the social media network that you made. There's a perception

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Speaker 3: that it was just like something else, which to me,

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Speaker 3: a lot of things are like something else, So like,

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Speaker 3: is that the only problem that people had with that

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Speaker 3: that was like something else?

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Speaker 2: I think it was amazing for three years, and then

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Speaker 2: I got distracted by this new shiny thing which is

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Speaker 2: Fire for four months, and then you know, once Fire collapsed,

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Speaker 2: it took it all down. We sold bang uses for

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Speaker 2: basically pennies after the Fire festival because I was the

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Speaker 2: brand and my ability to create these experiences were destroyed

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Speaker 2: at that point. But I think it was more about it.

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Speaker 3: It was I'm saying. No, I'm saying, wasn't there something before?

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Speaker 3: You said there was a social network? So someone criticized

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Speaker 3: that as being like something else. Was there any other

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Speaker 3: legal problem with that? Was there any investigation into that

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Speaker 3: social network? That just was whatever and it dissolved. It

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Speaker 3: wasn't exactly did that business in and of itself have

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Speaker 3: any taint to it?

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Speaker 2: It was just the taint was me, and like you know,

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Speaker 2: I was ruined, right, and so if oh that's Billy's product,

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Speaker 2: therefore it must be terrible.

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Speaker 1: So I think that was kind of right.

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Speaker 3: But no one but so whatever they were digging up,

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Speaker 3: they were just digging up whatever they could on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there was no criminal auity or like the legal

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Speaker 2: aspect of the business. It was a great business that

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Speaker 2: I didn't know how to see through because I got

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Speaker 2: distracted by like what's next in this bigger opportunity? And

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Speaker 2: that was my That was my fault and like my issue.

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Speaker 3: But in order to believe you, I want to know

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Speaker 3: that you you you admit that there was criminal aspect

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Speaker 3: of Firefest completely.

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Speaker 2: It was totally blocked.

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Speaker 3: By Okay, so you're acknowledging because I mean you you

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Speaker 3: deserved to go to jail in your opinion, you acknowledge

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Speaker 3: your wrongdoing completely.

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Speaker 2: I met a lot of very good people in jail,

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Speaker 2: but I didn't meet one person who deserve to be

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Speaker 2: there in some capacity. So I think everybody, like I

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Speaker 2: think it's very rare they're going to find a random

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Speaker 2: person and prosecute them. I think you have done something wrong,

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Speaker 2: and you make it over prosecuted or under prosecuted. But

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Speaker 2: I was certainly guilty and deserve to go.

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Speaker 3: To jail fifty shades of how much there's a disparity

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Speaker 3: and someone belongs to be there for longer.

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Speaker 1: It's not I got a longer set.

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Speaker 2: But okay, you did something wrong, you get there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly, you were in the mix and something's wrong. Okay.

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Speaker 3: Do you feel that you were lucky with your sentence

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Speaker 3: or your sentence was longer or was exactly what it

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Speaker 3: should be based on you know, other people, or what's

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Speaker 3: right or what you've heard read whatever.

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Speaker 2: The answer literally changed by the day I started in

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Speaker 2: the jail in New York, where there were a lot

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Speaker 2: of other financial crime people, and there I felt like

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Speaker 2: my sentence was super long because I would meet guys

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Speaker 2: who had dollar figures or victim amounts that were ten

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Speaker 2: times mine who had less time. And then I got

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Speaker 2: in trouble in prison a couple of times and was

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Speaker 2: transferred further west, first to Ohio and then to Detroit,

333
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Speaker 2: where I met people who had, you know, a couple

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Speaker 2: of dollars and twenty year sentences, So I kind of

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Speaker 2: felt lucky. So I think it really depends on where

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Speaker 2: you are. But in the day, I think my six

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Speaker 2: year sentence was fair. That's probably right.

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Speaker 1: Did you have terrifying experiences in there?

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Speaker 2: I did ten months in solitary confinement, seven of it

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Speaker 2: which was for trying to do a podcast from the

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Speaker 2: prison payphone, So I think that really sucked. And like

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Speaker 2: the biggest takeaway from that is I'm not a conspiracy theorist,

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Speaker 2: but knowing that there was someone who had that power

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Speaker 2: to snap their fingers and literally put me into a

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Speaker 2: concrete box for seven months was wild.

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Speaker 3: Wait a minute, you were in solitary confine? What you

347
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Speaker 3: said ten seven or ten.

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Speaker 2: Ten months total? I did one seventh month stint just

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Speaker 2: for the podcast, Like, as punishment for that.

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Speaker 1: What is solitary confinement?

351
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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: Does it? Hell?

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Speaker 2: It's bad? You're supposed to be able to go outside

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Speaker 2: for one hour a day, but it was during COVID,

355
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Speaker 2: so ironically that was an excuse where I couldn't leave.

356
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Speaker 2: So I was literally in a cage for seven months,

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Speaker 2: and that was really really crazy.

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Speaker 3: Wait a minute, You eat in there, you do everything

359
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Speaker 3: in there, you can you read it.

360
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Speaker 2: They put your food through like a doggy tray. So

361
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Speaker 2: there's no like contact with anybody. And you're allowed to

362
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Speaker 2: have two books a week, which sounds like a lot,

363
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:51,920
Speaker 2: but when you have nothing else to do, it's it's

364
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:53,200
Speaker 2: you know, you do that in a day and a

365
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Speaker 2: half or two days, even if you're like an average reader.

366
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Speaker 2: So a lot of push ups, a lot of meditating,

367
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,920
Speaker 2: and a lot of longing for relationships like you know, physical, emotional,

368
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Speaker 2: just wanted to be around people. I think it's the

369
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Speaker 2: biggest thing you start creating after a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 1: Did it fuck with your head big time? Did it

371
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Speaker 1: mess you? Like?

372
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Speaker 3: Are you very fucked up from being in solitary confinement

373
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Speaker 3: for that period of time like we see in the movies.

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Speaker 1: That sounds yeah.

375
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Speaker 2: I think like nightmares literally maybe stopped two months ago,

376
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Speaker 2: so it it took a few years afterwards to kind

377
00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,040
Speaker 2: of go away. And once again, I think the biggest

378
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,440
Speaker 2: fear was knowing that like, oh wow, there was some

379
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Speaker 2: prison official who literally could say, okay, I want Billy,

380
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Speaker 2: you know in here for seven months and it happened,

381
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Speaker 2: and that was just crazy for me.

382
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Speaker 1: Are you in therapy?

383
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Speaker 2: I have been, Yes.

384
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Speaker 3: What did your parents, whether you have a good relationship

385
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Speaker 3: with them or not. You have some relationship with your siblings.

386
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Speaker 2: Younger sister thirties, slives in the city.

387
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Speaker 1: Are you close with her? Not really?

388
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Speaker 2: I think it's hard hard for her. She was twenty

389
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Speaker 2: one or twenty two when it all happens, So I think,

390
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Speaker 2: like you know, as a young woman in New York,

391
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,120
Speaker 2: it's kind of tough when your brothers it's me.

392
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Speaker 1: At that point, she was in the demo.

393
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Speaker 2: She was in that yeah, Target demo exactly.

394
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Speaker 3: And what about your mom, Like, what was your mom

395
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Speaker 3: saying when you were going into solitary confinement?

396
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Speaker 1: Was she hysterical?

397
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,920
Speaker 2: I think the hardest part for the family is not known,

398
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,320
Speaker 2: at least when you're going through it, like you have

399
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,960
Speaker 2: real time updates, like it's you, it's happening. You know

400
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,720
Speaker 2: what's happening every second when your family's not there, like

401
00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:19,800
Speaker 2: they might hear oh in the news or from a letter,

402
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,000
Speaker 2: like you're in solidary confinement, but what does that mean?

403
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,640
Speaker 2: Like what's actually happening? So it's like not knowing made

404
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:26,520
Speaker 2: them think the worst. I think that was the most

405
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:28,600
Speaker 2: messed up part and hardest to kind of come to

406
00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:29,040
Speaker 2: terms with.

407
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Speaker 1: So you traumatize your entire family.

408
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,040
Speaker 2: Like for yeah, it's terrible. Yeah, parents, for sure.

409
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Speaker 3: Have you cost them a lot of money?

410
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,200
Speaker 2: Some I think the emotional damage is probably the worst

411
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:43,880
Speaker 2: part of it. Like you know, money can always be

412
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,640
Speaker 2: solved in some capacity, and like I will do that

413
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:48,560
Speaker 2: through the rest of my life. I think the emotional

414
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,480
Speaker 2: damage to trust, like that's where really hurts the most.

415
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,320
Speaker 3: Are you spending the rest of your life trying to

416
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,240
Speaker 3: repair the emotional trust too?

417
00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:58,880
Speaker 2: Absolutely? I think like my dream is to be able

418
00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:00,760
Speaker 2: to go and shake the hands people that I wronged

419
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:02,680
Speaker 2: and where they're like, okay, like we got paid back,

420
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,040
Speaker 2: but that's one thing more importantly, like we can trust

421
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,320
Speaker 2: you now, and not saying they're going to be investors

422
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:09,600
Speaker 2: or business partners again, more of that like human level

423
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:11,600
Speaker 2: where hey, like I trust you as a person. I

424
00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,280
Speaker 2: think that's kind of I crave that and that would

425
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Speaker 2: make me feel fulfilled.

426
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Speaker 3: So why is someone from jail suing you for six

427
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:20,000
Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars?

428
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, So ironically, my crime was far from the worst

429
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,040
Speaker 2: of people in prison, and as I was transferred to

430
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,560
Speaker 2: higher level prisons and worse prisons, you know, I was

431
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:31,879
Speaker 2: essentially it wasn't that bad day to day, but I

432
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,640
Speaker 2: was a target for people with hainous crimes. So there

433
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,160
Speaker 2: was someone who ended up being a child predator who

434
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,359
Speaker 2: basically met me when I was first released to a

435
00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,080
Speaker 2: half way house from jail, started showering me with gifts

436
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:46,320
Speaker 2: and found out when I was still in that halfway

437
00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,600
Speaker 2: house that he was a child predator and basically severed

438
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:50,959
Speaker 2: ties with him. And you know, that's that story. So

439
00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,560
Speaker 2: it was a hard transition from like leaving jail.

440
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:54,800
Speaker 3: Oh wait, what does it have to do with the

441
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,520
Speaker 3: six hundred thousand I'm saying, why would someone sue you?

442
00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,600
Speaker 3: What was the six hundred thousand dollar claim about? And

443
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:00,600
Speaker 3: where is that now?

444
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was trying to give me gifts.

445
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,240
Speaker 3: You admit that firefest was completely illegal and you did

446
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,399
Speaker 3: criminals to hear you're saying you did not do anything.

447
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:08,400
Speaker 1: You're saying this is wrong.

448
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, someone like trying to pull me down a little

449
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:12,879
Speaker 2: bit to bring themselves up, whether it's you know, fifteen

450
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,880
Speaker 2: seconds of press or whatever it may be.

451
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:16,560
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, that's hard.

452
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, I'm gonna choose to believe you because I'm

453
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:19,919
Speaker 3: you're being accountable about some things.

454
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:21,600
Speaker 1: Like I'm trying to wade through this, but it's put

455
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:22,200
Speaker 1: you're pretty clear.

456
00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,720
Speaker 3: Okay, So you were in jail and you were still

457
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,480
Speaker 3: fucking around trying to make money, trying to do something

458
00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:30,000
Speaker 3: like what So what is that is that?

459
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,119
Speaker 1: Like you still hadn't learned your lesson? Like what was

460
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:32,679
Speaker 1: that about?

461
00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:34,760
Speaker 3: Like why didn't you just like put your head down.

462
00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,959
Speaker 3: I'm gonna fucking pay attention, do what I'm told, listen,

463
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:39,400
Speaker 3: and get the fuck out of here.

464
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,760
Speaker 2: Oh maybe I need you as my mom my mom

465
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,040
Speaker 2: at that point, but it's like I didn't know how

466
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,040
Speaker 2: to sit down and shut up basically, and like it

467
00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,560
Speaker 2: might not have broken the rules per se with the podcast,

468
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,439
Speaker 2: but it was against like the theme with the rules, right,

469
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,080
Speaker 2: the point of jail is to you're in time out.

470
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,200
Speaker 2: It's not to just provide a different platform for you

471
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,560
Speaker 2: to continue your business. And I didn't get that, and

472
00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,399
Speaker 2: it took time, and I kept thinking, oh, it's like

473
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,960
Speaker 2: it's on me. I can prove that I'm not as

474
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:03,760
Speaker 2: bad as it might have been portrayed. But that was

475
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,120
Speaker 2: beyond the point. Like the point was I was wrong,

476
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,200
Speaker 2: I was guilty, and because of that it is now

477
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,960
Speaker 2: time to you know, be quiet. So it took a

478
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:12,680
Speaker 2: minute to get there.

479
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,080
Speaker 3: Ellen Degenerous once said to me, you will keep making

480
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,280
Speaker 3: the mistake until you learn the lesson, like in relationships

481
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:23,240
Speaker 3: and in your case, in your your antics and your shortcuts.

482
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,680
Speaker 3: And Lauren Michaels once said to me, you have to

483
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,800
Speaker 3: make an exit to make an entrance, meaning like it

484
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 3: wasn't even about me, he was talking about one of

485
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,679
Speaker 3: the people on Saturday Night Live. But I take that

486
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 3: as like your day will come to be able to

487
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,960
Speaker 3: like so sit down, shut up, and then like later

488
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,800
Speaker 3: you know, I love that, not that it's not that

489
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:42,200
Speaker 3: it's going to be good for you. I mean, it's

490
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:43,880
Speaker 3: not great for you by any means, and you don't

491
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:45,920
Speaker 3: deserve it to be. But I but I you know,

492
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,080
Speaker 3: I want to talk through it, okay, So.

493
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,639
Speaker 2: I love that the day will come and it's like

494
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:52,600
Speaker 2: you have to go through the punished metas there first

495
00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,320
Speaker 2: before you have that chance, And I couldn't couldn't grasp that,

496
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,480
Speaker 2: So I agree, right, awesome.

497
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,280
Speaker 3: You've thought about people who have done really bad things,

498
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 3: have you like looked into those more closer than others?

499
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,960
Speaker 2: Absolutely? And I think it's like it's yeah, it's it's

500
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:07,840
Speaker 2: funny for my perspective to be like, you know, why

501
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:08,720
Speaker 2: is he or she doing that?

502
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:10,280
Speaker 1: Or like, oh, that's so amazing what they did do.

503
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it's.

504
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:13,359
Speaker 1: Cool to see who do you look at? Who are

505
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:13,920
Speaker 1: you looking at?

506
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 3: Thinking like they fucked up but like eventually were able

507
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,159
Speaker 3: to like redeem themselves.

508
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:19,920
Speaker 1: Who are those people? Besides Michael Vick?

509
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,639
Speaker 2: I think Ian Schrager had a really cool comebackstory and

510
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,280
Speaker 2: obviously now is an incredible hotel brand and hotel line.

511
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,480
Speaker 2: So someone who took it there able to be good

512
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,640
Speaker 2: at find a good partner to kind of help them

513
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 2: and you know, provide parameters and be successful. That's pretty cool.

514
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:34,399
Speaker 3: You mean because he went to jail because what was

515
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 3: going on with Studio fifty four?

516
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like came back and said, Okay, I'm great

517
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:39,600
Speaker 2: at this like two or three things, and I need

518
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,600
Speaker 2: help in these other areas and found a great partner

519
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 2: and you know, built a successful brand for himself.

520
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 1: So interesting.

521
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:47,520
Speaker 3: I would I had him on this podcast, and I

522
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,399
Speaker 3: would never have thought of that because I forgot to

523
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:51,920
Speaker 3: the point of marketing and branding.

524
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:52,640
Speaker 1: I forgot.

525
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,760
Speaker 3: And I know that story because I know I know

526
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 3: somebody who did all the lighting and the wiring for

527
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:02,400
Speaker 3: Studio fifty four. Do you think that Ian Schrager's crimes

528
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 3: were on par with yours? Or like worse or better

529
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,119
Speaker 3: or just similar? Is Jordan Belfire the Wolf of All Street?

530
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 3: Is it on par the crimes? Is it similar?

531
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:12,840
Speaker 1: Yeah?

532
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 2: I think my crime is worse and Ian triggers. Uh. Yeah.

533
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 2: I think I probably caused more emotional damage than he

534
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 2: did to people, So I think, like that's worse.

535
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 3: Oh okay, his is like just general like their taste skimming,

536
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:26,679
Speaker 3: but it's not like hurting direct people.

537
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 2: Yes, I think what I did is worse than him.

538
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 2: But he's still, you know, found a way where someone

539
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,359
Speaker 2: like you would even forget because he's become you know,

540
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 2: respectful person, a member of society. So I think that's

541
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 2: that's motivating.

542
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,959
Speaker 1: But about Jordan, I don't know.

543
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:41,920
Speaker 2: I don't know him personally, so I think this story

544
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 2: is like it's hard to understand, like what's real and

545
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 2: what isn't real, right, because everything is just sensationalized so

546
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 2: much so.

547
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: And marketing has been a movie and all that stuff.

548
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 2: Yees, So I don't really know like who he heard

549
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 2: or didn't hurt and maybe it's bad, maybe it's not

550
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 2: so bad.

551
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,120
Speaker 1: It's it's kind of hard to hard to say without

552
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 1: knowing the details.

553
00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 3: Got it, Okay, So let's get into firefest.

554
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,360
Speaker 1: All right? So you're a hotshot.

555
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,680
Speaker 3: You got this credit card, you've got this like buzz,

556
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 3: and you're running around the city going to clubs. And

557
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 3: I think and that you had a girlfriend that was

558
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 3: on the road with you, right like doing this?

559
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 1: No, yeah, a little bit, Yeah to speak to her anymore?

560
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:25,680
Speaker 1: Have a new one?

561
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 2: Now? Who I met after fire?

562
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,320
Speaker 1: But you met a girl after fire before prison?

563
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:31,679
Speaker 2: Correct? Yes?

564
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 1: And she stayed with you for some time.

565
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 2: We broke up for a little bit and you know,

566
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 2: an how we're back together. So she she's tough?

567
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,399
Speaker 1: Interesting does she? Does she trust you?

568
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 2: I hope? So? So I think she she was not

569
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,159
Speaker 2: there for the for the fun time. So that was

570
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 2: kind of ironic, right, like didn't get to experience the

571
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 2: quick rise.

572
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,160
Speaker 1: She's only been there for the ship, only only been.

573
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 2: There for the ship, So I think I owe it

574
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 2: to make things work.

575
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 1: What kind of person is she like? What is she like?

576
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 1: Conservative is she like? What is she like? What does

577
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 1: she do for a living in marketing?

578
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 3: I don't have to like get into her fully, but

579
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 3: I'm just curious what kind of woman you're in a

580
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 3: relationship with.

581
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 2: Super like strong willed, strong personality. Yeah, she's far and

582
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 2: moved here when she was fifteen or sixteen, which is

583
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 2: kind of like tough.

584
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 1: And what was her family? Said? You have you met

585
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: a family?

586
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 2: I have. It's it's weird because I think people who

587
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 2: kind of met me after didn't didn't get to experience

588
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 2: like the good and the bad that came with the

589
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 2: chaos of fire and Fire Festival. So I think to them,

590
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 2: it's like here's a character, and like here's like you know,

591
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 2: current Billy for all of us good and all is bad.

592
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 2: So I think for them it's kind of hard to

593
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 2: put it all together and like understand what's what okay?

594
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 3: So you are doing this credit card, you're a hot shot,

595
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 3: you have a girlfriend, walk me through what goes on?

596
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 3: So now you go to some of these investors that

597
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 3: you were doing VC with and you've talken a jar rule,

598
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 3: you brought it, you packaged it with Jar roles, so

599
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 3: people wanted to invest because you had him already right

600
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 3: like stuff like that.

601
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:57,959
Speaker 2: Yes, like it was kind of crazy. We had this

602
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 2: townhouse in the West Village where all of our cardholders

603
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 2: could come. It was almost like a so house, you know,

604
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 2: twelve years ago for young people in Manhattan. And this

605
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 2: guy walked in who was a programmer at Google and

606
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 2: a self taught pilot, and he said, I just bought

607
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 2: a plane. I want a flyabillity to the Bahamas. So

608
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 2: you know, of course, she said, he asked one of

609
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 2: this guy's plane. We ran out of gas and landed

610
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 2: on this remote island in this small chain of the Bahamas,

611
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,679
Speaker 2: and turned out the island had crazy history as like

612
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 2: a Blackbeard and a Pablo Escobars, like you know, teams,

613
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 2: drug running island and whatever. Like now we were there

614
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 2: and I just totally fell in love with this place.

615
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 2: I fell in love with the ocean. I fell in

616
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 2: love with literally the four people who actually lived there.

617
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 2: And I kept bringing my friends and customers and music

618
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,479
Speaker 2: talent all to this island, and these trips kept growing

619
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 2: and growing.

620
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: Who was paying for the trips to go to the island.

621
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 2: Initially we were selling spots to our Magnesis cardholders, so

622
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 2: they would basically pay a fee and we'd take them

623
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,399
Speaker 2: from Teeterborough and these like small crappy nineteen sixties planes

624
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 2: and fly to the island for the weekend.

625
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: Where would they stay.

626
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 2: We would there were a couple of small houses or

627
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,439
Speaker 2: villas there. We would get a boat and like we

628
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 2: kind of like it started with four people and they

629
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 2: became two hundred people trips. And on one of these

630
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 2: trips I had a childhood friend who said, you should

631
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,239
Speaker 2: totally do a music festival here for all of your

632
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 2: Magnesist cardholders.

633
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: So what does that friend say? Now?

634
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 2: I know right, Like it's funny because like twenty people

635
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 2: have since said, oh, it's my idea. But it was like, really,

636
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 2: this guy who wasn't involved at all, who had the

637
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 2: idea for fire and.

638
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 1: Fire festival And is he still your friend?

639
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 2: Haven't spoken to him? Actually? No? Okay, but that's where

640
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 2: it started.

641
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 3: So are you are you ripping these two hundred people

642
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 3: off while this is happening or no, this is just

643
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 3: normal like you're making some money.

644
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 2: No, these trips are great and like they're awesome. And

645
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 2: what started with your average twenty two year old became

646
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 2: big music artists, comedians, some of the biggest models in

647
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,439
Speaker 2: the world. And we started filming some of these trips

648
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 2: and bits.

649
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: Who was paying for this? Your business is paying for it.

650
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 3: You're making so much money that you're just like you're

651
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 3: spending this or who's paying for all this stuff?

652
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 2: Initially the customers are paying for it themselves? Then eventually he.

653
00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: Was paying for the filming it.

654
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 2: Now our business are going to pay for the trips

655
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 2: are getting big, we have brand sponsors, we're making more money,

656
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 2: Like you know, things are going well now that business

657
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 2: is paying for it. At that point where it's like,

658
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 2: all right, let's do a festival. Now it's time to

659
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 2: raise some money. Like we've proved we can have you know,

660
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 2: three or four days where you escape reality in New

661
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 2: York City, you're diving for your own fish or cooking

662
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 2: in the beach, and all these people who might not

663
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 2: spend time together at home are now becoming great friends

664
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 2: or they're starting companies together. And wanted to kind of

665
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 2: like formulate and package these experiences and sell it as

666
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 2: a music festival?

667
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: You raise how much money with how many people.

668
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 2: Ended up raising around like twenty seven or twenty eight

669
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 2: million for Fire Festival over this four month period from

670
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 2: maybe three or four dozen investors.

671
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 3: So at the number that's the number of what you

672
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 3: owe back is twenty seven million plus seven million in taxes,

673
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 3: so you right correct, exactly thirty four million in the hole.

674
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:57,239
Speaker 3: And all these people invested, And what went sideways? And

675
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 3: how fast did it go sideways? And how much did

676
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 3: you know? And what we you trying to do? And

677
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 3: how did you get yourself in deeper? And how did

678
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 3: you get yourself to jail?

679
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 2: Like?

680
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: What now goes on? So you're there? What goes on?

681
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 2: There are two big issues? So the first thing is

682
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 2: that even if Fire Festival was perfect, it was as

683
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 2: luxurious adventurous as we advertised, I still would have gone

684
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 2: to jail because I lied to the investors to try

685
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 2: to get more money, Like so that was the crime.

686
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 2: The crime was like a.

687
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 3: Mini made off crime, Like you're saying, let me get

688
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 3: more so I can, and then I'm going to end

689
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 3: up paying them back. You thought you had you could go,

690
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 3: you could handle it.

691
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I lied and said, hey, we are

692
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 2: doing better than we are. I have more money than

693
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 2: I actually have, or the company is more money that

694
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 2: actually has and just like gave very basic, almost like

695
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 2: childlike exaggerations to help raise money, which actually think hurt me.

696
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: But it's a separate story. And then the second part was, wait,

697
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: what do you mean that's a separate start? What do

698
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: you mean say that go through that? Let's just do it.

699
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 2: I think people were investing in me initially because they

700
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 2: had worked with me for five or six years. They've

701
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 2: seen all the little failures, they had seen some of

702
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 2: the little wins, and they believe that if Fire was

703
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 2: done right, it would have been bigger than the previous acts,

704
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 2: which shit right, we all agree with. So they were

705
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 2: investing because of that, and almost despite my exaggerations for

706
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: how well Fire was doing. I think when it got

707
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 2: to a certain point where we needed even more money,

708
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 2: I probably scared away people who would have actually invested

709
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 2: more because it was too good to be true. So ironically,

710
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 2: the lying probably pushed away a lot more capital and

711
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 2: probably people who could have helped make it a reality,

712
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 2: because like it was obvious.

713
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 1: You're saying, you could have said I'm in a little

714
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: bit of trouble.

715
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 3: We can do this, but this is what's going on,

716
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 3: and let me get some advisors and crowdsource some information

717
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 3: so you can help me get I'm fucked right now

718
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 3: and I need help.

719
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 2: I was so scared to show Kings in the Armor,

720
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 2: where in the reality was like, these people already trusted me.

721
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 2: I'd built that trust.

722
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: It's almost endearing for people to hear what's wrong. So

723
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: I was part.

724
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,479
Speaker 3: I was one of the people to start the model.

725
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 3: Now I was the person to really start the model

726
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 3: for monetizing reality television, like before the Kardashians, and we

727
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 3: had the same agent who ended up using my model.

728
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: For them later.

729
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 3: Like in other words, I was util the Housewives to

730
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 3: promote Skinny Girl, and I was using this vehicle that

731
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 3: no one else was using in that way. They were

732
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 3: using it to show how rich they were and buying diamonds,

733
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 3: and I was using it because I was poor as

734
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 3: this vehicle. So this agent then ended up bringing this

735
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 3: model over to the Kardashians, who were bigger, and they

736
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 3: weren't bigger yet, but they were still bigger, and like

737
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 3: was doing deals through the shows for them, a series deal,

738
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 3: that ended up failing, Like he kind of used a

739
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 3: quick trim he put into their show. He was using

740
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 3: my model. But one of the things I experienced, and

741
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 3: we were great and we made money together, is that

742
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 3: he would always like act like he knew everything. And

743
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 3: I was freaked out by that because a couple of

744
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 3: times we got really jammed up in things that I

745
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 3: ended up having.

746
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: To get us out of.

747
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 3: Like it was a situation where I did a brand

748
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 3: deal with a partner in Skinny Girl for another category

749
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,239
Speaker 3: and I wasn't allowed to use that category, meaning he

750
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 3: could have said I'm suing you because you're not allowed

751
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 3: to use this this in genes, let's say, or I

752
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 3: was shapewear. But what I did was went to the

753
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 3: original Skinny Girl partner and said, listen, I have to

754
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 3: go to you to ask my lit I have to

755
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 3: ask my liquor partner you if I can use the

756
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 3: intellectual property and these other categories. But the agent did

757
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 3: a deal with them already and made a mistake because

758
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 3: he didn't know that. So I said, I'll figure it out,

759
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 3: and I went to the partner and asked his permission,

760
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 3: and he didn't love it, but he said no, problem,

761
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 3: like kind of like I'll do this for you, and

762
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 3: I probably offered to do something for him. So I'm

763
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 3: sorry for that long story, but it just is like,

764
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 3: if you get entangled and you're doing something that you're

765
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 3: over your skis, you have to go come, you have

766
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 3: to come correct. So that's what I think you're talking

767
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 3: about as a business takeaway for people.

768
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 2: And most smart people understand that nothing is going to

769
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 2: be perfect. So if you're saying everything is perfect, and

770
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 2: they'd been there ten times themselves, they're like, this is bullshit, right,

771
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 2: it's impossible things.

772
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: Are going this well, and I think it scared them away,

773
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: so they started getting nervous.

774
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 3: They're now in the pyramid scheme, they're not at the top,

775
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 3: they don't know if they're getting outetting their money out.

776
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 3: They're all freaking up, but they don't want to give

777
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 3: more because they're freaking out.

778
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they would they would give more to try

779
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 2: to make it work. I think ultimately we were all

780
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 2: aligned that making the festival itself work was the best

781
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 2: chance at a financial win, at a social win, at

782
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 2: a business win. So we legitimately tried, literally up until

783
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 2: the last second, to make Fire Festival happen. Then the

784
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 2: other side of the problem was just my inability to

785
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 2: build a city in the middle of nowhere in four months.

786
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 2: It is having no like real estate development experience to

787
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 2: that scale.

788
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 3: So yeah, before you got there, you knew the shit

789
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 3: was going sideways before this, like how long before.

790
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 2: I didn't know. After the first one thousand guests arrived,

791
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 2: I had basically my number two come up to me

792
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 2: and say, three people got killed. This wasn't true at all. Yeah,

793
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 2: no one was even, no one was slightly hurt. Like, no,

794
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 2: there was zero physical issues. But I don't know if

795
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 2: he did that on purpose or if he's telling the truth,

796
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 2: if he's lying, But like that kind of snapped me

797
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 2: out of it, like, oh shit, we are not ready.

798
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 2: And we literally turned like seven to thirty sevens around

799
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 2: in the air and got everybody off the island. But

800
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 2: up until that last second of a thousand guests actually arriving,

801
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 2: I thought that, you know, fire Festival one was going

802
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 2: to happen, And.

803
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: So where's the true crime.

804
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 3: Like we saw the cheese sandwich, We've seen the people

805
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 3: freaking out.

806
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: There was it was terrible conditions. We know the story.

807
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 3: I mean, many people if you don't know the story.

808
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 3: It was this shit show that never happened, with a

809
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 3: piece of cheese that went viral in a styrofoam box

810
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 3: and people freaking out and crying, but sort of also

811
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 3: like a camaraderie between them and like it being the

812
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 3: worst disaster and getting attention for it. But it was

813
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 3: a disaster. So where was the true crime? You owe

814
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 3: twenty seven million dollars to how many people?

815
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 2: So I owed twenty seven million dollars to the three

816
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 2: dozen or so investors. So the crime were simply the

817
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 2: people who invested money into fire festival.

818
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 3: Because you kept because you told them, you lied to

819
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 3: them that it was going well, and got more money.

820
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: Like what specifically is the crime? Wire fraud? What was

821
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: the crime?

822
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 2: So like example, okay, you know this sponsor is going

823
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 2: to pay us five million, but in reality, the sponsor

824
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: is only paying us a million, So like lies like

825
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 2: that that tried to entice them to make the deal

826
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 2: look better than actually was, to get more money. Yeah,

827
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 2: more money exactly. The actual the festival itself wasn't the crime.

828
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 2: I think most people get that wrong, Like the people

829
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 2: who bought tickets whatever, Like we legitimately tried to make

830
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 2: that happen. So the festival didn't matter how it turned out,

831
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 2: how good or how bad it was. I committed the

832
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 2: same crime and would have gone to jail for the

833
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 2: same period of time even if it was the best

834
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 2: festival of all time.

835
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: So okay, so is your plan? So how do you

836
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: make money? Now? Do you have any money? How much money?

837
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 2: Doing all right? Doing a lot of marketing, consulting work,

838
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 2: so realizing like what I suck at and what I'm

839
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 2: good at. So helping a lot of venture capital back

840
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 2: startups for their marketing.

841
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: Who's hiring you? Like? What person is hiring you? Like?

842
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 3: How do you because you already know them, because they're

843
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 3: intrigued by the story, because they think you're smart and

844
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 3: you did stupid things, like who's you know? You seem

845
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 3: sound to me, you seem culpable, you seem accountable.

846
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: I'm surprised.

847
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 3: I thought you were going to come on here and

848
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 3: be like trying to convince me of all the ways

849
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 3: it wasn't your fault.

850
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: I'm surprised. I'm glad I had you on. I have

851
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,719
Speaker 1: you on. Thank you. Who's hiring you? And what are

852
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: they paying you? Are they paying you at a massive discount, Like,

853
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: how is this working?

854
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 2: Ironically, you know, probably doing pretty well income wise compared

855
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 2: to where he was before, but the you know, the

856
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 2: debts owed are so high, so such a large. I

857
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 2: joke that I have like the world's worst agent, like

858
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 2: in restitution. Right, no matter what I make, the agent

859
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 2: gets paid first, and they take a pretty significant piece

860
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 2: off the top. So do marketing work. And actually a

861
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 2: lot of it is former investors of mine who have

862
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 2: invested in let's say thirty tech companies, right, they might

863
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,359
Speaker 2: recommend to some of their investments like this guy's good

864
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 2: at marketing and he's bad at this, so if you

865
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 2: can kind of keep him in this box, he's great.

866
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: And that makes sense.

867
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 3: So you are actually where people are working with you

868
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,240
Speaker 3: again that have worked with you in the past, anyone

869
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 3: that invested with you.

870
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 2: Not directly, but the companies they've invested in have hired me.

871
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 2: So they might call, like the founder of a company

872
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 2: they invested in, say hey, like, I know you guys

873
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 2: are having this marketing problem. I think you know, Billy

874
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 2: can help with this issue, but like, don't let him

875
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 2: do this. They'll let him do that.

876
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 3: So how much money are you making a year of

877
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 3: approximately can you say close range?

878
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: Is it six figures? Is it seven figures? Yeah? In

879
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: that range? Okay, okay, I mean it's not amazing good enough.

880
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 3: But do you go out to a restaurant, you're eating

881
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 3: at a sushi restaurant, You're wearing decent clothes, and people

882
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 3: are looking at you.

883
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:12,320
Speaker 1: Like what the fuck?

884
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 3: These people lost their money and you're in a restaurant, Like,

885
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 3: how do you live your life? If you go on

886
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:19,879
Speaker 3: a vacation, if you step but on an airplane, You're

887
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 3: doing something wrong? Because so how does how do you live?

888
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 3: But yet you are going to hopefully pay these people back?

889
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 3: How do you live your everyday life? If you belong

890
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 3: to a gym? How did you pay for the gym membership?

891
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 2: Like?

892
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: How do you operate? What kind of car do you drive? Like?

893
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: How do you justify all that? Yeah?

894
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 2: So I think I'm really good at paying restitution. So

895
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 2: every month, like literally every month, I write a check

896
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 2: back to the investors that I owe, and I'm super

897
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 2: transparent about like what I made that month. So I'm

898
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,399
Speaker 2: making this up. Let's say, man, one hundred dollars last month,

899
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 2: Like all right, here's how I made it. And you

900
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:48,479
Speaker 2: know here's where it went, and here's how much.

901
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 3: You guys, I'm just giving them like a newsletter. It's

902
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 3: almost like it's almost like a newsletter.

903
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 2: So it is what it is, right if I make

904
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 2: ten million dollars or ten thousand dollars, like, here's how

905
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 2: much they made, and like I just disclose it.

906
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 3: So are you doing this because you're doing this or

907
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 3: because you would leave required to do it.

908
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 2: I'm legally required to pay a certain percentage, but I'm

909
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 2: trying to go above and beyond that and do more.

910
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 2: So like, for example, we are doing Fire Festival two again,

911
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 2: and by we, there is a third party festival company

912
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 2: who's in charge and not me, who's actually doing fire too,

913
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 2: and they're going to give.

914
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: I think it's such a viable brand.

915
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, like if like people will come to Fire Festival

916
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 2: too just to see what happens, like it to be

917
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 2: part of that cultural moment, right exactly if they can

918
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 2: do it and it's not me and I can like

919
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 2: talk some shit and do some marketing and like maybe

920
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 2: do something wild like at the event and like do

921
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 2: like ability fire thing. That's cool. But they're actually in

922
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 2: charge and they're giving a percentage of their business back

923
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 2: to restitution. And that's like in addition to whatever I

924
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 2: personally have to pay. So trying to find ways like

925
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 2: that that are a viable way to you.

926
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 3: Didn't have to do that. In other words, you own

927
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 3: who owns the intellectual property for Fire? I do one

928
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 3: percent of it?

929
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I license it to this festival company essentially

930
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 2: to do the festival.

931
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: And so are you so very interesting? Can you?

932
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,919
Speaker 3: Can you do Fire festival merchandise like you own Fire

933
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 3: Festival and everything you could do and you're going to right.

934
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. Another licensing deal we did was with the Broadway

935
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 2: Musical Company, So a company is producing a Fire Broadway musical.

936
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 1: Similar deal of like what about a movie? What about

937
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: scripted movie?

938
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 2: I haven't done that yet. Hopefully after Fire to is successful,

939
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 2: I think the redemption is probably a more interesting story.

940
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 2: So knock on wood.

941
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 3: But and will you will you vow here on this

942
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 3: show that every project you ever do with Fire you

943
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 3: will give those investors back a piece of it?

944
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, hundred percent. So it's in their interest to

945
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 2: make Fire to work. There's no ask from them. But

946
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,359
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, cheers silently from the sideline, and

947
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 2: you know when it works, it benefits everybody.

948
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 3: That will be interesting if one day you pay them

949
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 3: back with it, you're paying more than you took, right,

950
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 3: you're going to.

951
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 1: Make you want to make them money?

952
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, there's like, right, there's mandatory interest at it

953
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 2: on top.

954
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you exactly interest you.

955
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 3: Want that, Like you should do a poet like a kid, Okay,

956
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 3: so you you should have it. Be if you make

957
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 3: over fifty million and you're gonna give them a kicker,

958
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 3: like there's a kicker a bonus, you should really do that.

959
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 3: And then so your honest personal goal is that you

960
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 3: pay them all back plus a bonus, and that you're

961
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 3: then able to go like personally apologize and say I

962
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 3: made good, I recognize my actions, et cetera, and never'll.

963
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 2: Take more than one festival. Let's say in five years

964
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 2: after five fire Festival is a movie, a musical, whatever,

965
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 2: like it might get there right like that.

966
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 3: About twenty seven million with the right merch brand for

967
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 3: fire Festival. Believe it or not, I would invest in that.

968
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not absurd, it's it's possible.

969
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 3: No, I don't think it's I don't think I don't

970
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 3: think it's five years I think if you did, if

971
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 3: you had a merch brand and the festival and certain

972
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 3: things like I don't know, like it's very like edgy,

973
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 3: like BMX stuff, skateboard stuff, people that take chances and

974
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 3: do stupid things like I'm a marketer too.

975
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 2: But I think lean in, like lean into the recklessness

976
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:51,280
Speaker 2: of it, like you know fire.

977
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 1: Represents, Yeah, but don't.

978
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 3: You shouldn't lean into loving it and gloating it. You

979
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 3: should be the conservative guy. But it works for brands

980
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 3: like that type of shit, let's ski off of cliffs

981
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, in my opinion.

982
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:03,240
Speaker 2: Agreed.

983
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 3: Well, I have to say, this is an unexpected interesting

984
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 3: conversation and now I'm invested and I want to see

985
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 3: what happens.

986
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 2: Thank you, Yeah, thank you very much.

987
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

988
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 3: Is there anything else you wanted to say? Talk about market?

989
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 1: Get out there.

990
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 2: I think I think it's cool that you know, I

991
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 2: my start was seeing you to nightclub and thinking I

992
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 2: was the coolest nineteen year old in the world being

993
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 2: in the same room and come full circle now many

994
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 2: years later and many many flaws and mistakes later, but

995
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 2: it's wild to see this right of life and hopefully

996
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 2: in thirteen more years we can have a different conversation

997
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 2: than this one.

998
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and is the right that you want to say

999
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: to all these people?

1000
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 2: I think too. I'm sure some of my investors are listening. Like,

1001
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 2: I've apologized to all you guys and I'm sorry, and uh,

1002
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 2: we're doing our best to pay you guys back and

1003
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 2: hopefully these entities pay off, so we're.

1004
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: To actually speak loud of the words.

1005
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, exactly, and that's it. Takes time, takes actions,

1006
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 2: and apologies are meaningless at this point. It's more about

1007
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 2: showing you guys the results.

1008
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,760
Speaker 1: And what about your parents and your sister? Yeah, hopefully

1009
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: there listening, but I think they might be. So what

1010
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: do you want to say?

1011
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 2: Might be I think recognizing that the people who are

1012
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 2: punished the most were actually family and who were punished

1013
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 2: harder than me, harder than investors, harder than attendees or

1014
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 2: our family. They you know, have the emotional attachment and

1015
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 2: they ultimately got a worse punishment that I did.

1016
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 3: So yeah, and you weren't solitary confinement in ten years

1017
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:20,399
Speaker 3: and you still think they got.

1018
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,760
Speaker 1: A worse punishment for sure, for sure for ten months.

1019
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 3: Sorry, Okay, thank you so much, very interesting and thanks be.

1020
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 3: I can't wait till you get the thirty four million

1021
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 3: back plus plus thank you