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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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Speaker 2: This week on the podcast, another extra special guest, Mkhil

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Speaker 2: Haggerty is chairman and CEO of Haggarty Specialty Insurance.

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Speaker 1: Fascinating company. They took a little.

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Speaker 2: Niche wooden boat insure and turned it into a publicly

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Speaker 2: traded company by.

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Speaker 1: Embracing the community around.

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Speaker 2: Collector cars, trucks, boats, etc. I thought this conversation was

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Speaker 2: really quite fascinating, not just as a car guy, but

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Speaker 2: as a business guy, and I think you will also

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Speaker 2: with no further ado, my conversation with Haggarty's Mkhil Haggarty.

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Speaker 3: Mkhil Haggarty, Welcome to Bloomberg. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: So let's start with your backroun.

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Speaker 2: You get a BA in English and Philosophy from Pepperdine

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Speaker 2: and then you get a master's in theology at Saint

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Speaker 2: Vladimir's Orthodox Theological Seminary.

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Speaker 3: What was the plan to become a priest? Yeah, I

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Speaker 3: kind of.

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Speaker 4: I think about my academic career in a couple of phases.

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Speaker 4: Like I was, I was an entrepreneur from the time

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Speaker 4: I was young. I had a bunch of businesses when

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Speaker 4: I was very young and thought I would go study

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Speaker 4: business in college, and I ended up falling in love

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Speaker 4: with philosophy and literature and all these things was philosophy

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Speaker 4: and English major. I was a good student, and I

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Speaker 4: thought I'd get my PhD. But I needed a little

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Speaker 4: break to work on languages and some things. And I

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Speaker 4: learned about Saint Ladimirs which is just north of New

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Speaker 4: York here. It's been kind of near Rye or Scarsdale,

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Speaker 4: and it was this incredible experience because I, you know,

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Speaker 4: I got to work on my languages. I learned a

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Speaker 4: lot about leadership actually at the ee'min area because there's

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Speaker 4: some pretty extraordinary individuals there. And then there is no

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Speaker 4: doubt about it. You are there to study to become

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Speaker 4: a priest. And while that was not my driving reason

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Speaker 4: to go there, they kind of it's a little bit

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Speaker 4: like Michael Corleoni. They kind of drag you in and

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Speaker 4: you know, before you know it, you're suddenly thinking about

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Speaker 4: becoming a priest. I didn't become a priest because then

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Speaker 4: I moved on and started my doctor work in philosophy

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Speaker 4: up in Boston and did not complete that because the

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Speaker 4: family business called and I had worked in it during

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Speaker 4: the summers up until then, and you know, with mom

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Speaker 4: and dad, my two sisters, and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 4: I found myself no longer thinking about exams and dissertation

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Speaker 4: and all those things, and thinking about this really cool business.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk.

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Speaker 2: About this this business. The hagiography is your parents, Frank

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Speaker 2: and Louise. They started Haggarty Insurance Agency in Traverse City, Michigan,

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Speaker 2: for what I never would have guessed was an actual

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Speaker 2: business elector wooden boat.

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Speaker 3: That's right, Like, is are.

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Speaker 2: There enough collector wooden boats to sustain a full business?

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Speaker 1: There is?

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Speaker 4: There are enough wooden boats to ensure to sustain a

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Speaker 4: very small family business, you know, with a few employees.

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Speaker 4: It was kind of a retirement gig for my mom

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Speaker 4: and dad. They had had a general insurance agency and

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Speaker 4: they sold that and they wanted something else to do.

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Speaker 4: And they thought, but there were a couple of principles

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Speaker 4: that were in the back of their mind, which was

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Speaker 4: they wanted a national.

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Speaker 3: Business instead of a local one.

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Speaker 4: They wanted one that was in a niche rather than

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Speaker 4: like sort of a general purpose, and they wanted one

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Speaker 4: that could have like real sustainability over a long period

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Speaker 4: of time. So wooden boats was an unoccupied business space,

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Speaker 4: so literally unmet need they found they matched the unmet

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Speaker 4: need with an interest in that underlying interest in wooden

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Speaker 4: boats and in cars. My dad was a wooden boat

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Speaker 4: vintage boat gui and also a car guy, and so

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Speaker 4: you know, this was just the fun combining the business

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Speaker 4: knowledge with a passion. And again and I kind of

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Speaker 4: all helped out when it was much smaller, and we

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Speaker 4: kind of stumbled into the car insurance business, which was

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Speaker 4: much much larger than the wooden boat business.

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Speaker 2: Even the collector car businesses orders orders of magnitude larger billions.

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Speaker 2: But let's not jump quite far that ahead. You and

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Speaker 2: your dad used to work on cars rebuilding projects. You

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Speaker 2: mentioned you had a couple of side hustles, lawnmowing things

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Speaker 2: like that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, my apple orchard.

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Speaker 2: You spent five hundred bucks buying a nineteen sixty seven

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Speaker 2: portion nine to eleven s when you were thirteen. Yes,

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Speaker 2: like I wouldn't be allowed to buy a car at thirteen.

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Speaker 2: I was lucky I had a bike and then you

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Speaker 2: and your father rebuild this.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 4: I will also know it was the only really good

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Speaker 4: car deal I've ever done in my life.

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Speaker 3: So just for what it's worth was.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to assume that was the spark that started

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Speaker 2: your enthusiasm.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 4: You know, my dad was a do it yourself for

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Speaker 4: hobbyist restorer guy in the garage, and both my sisters

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Speaker 4: also restored cars. They were older than I was with him,

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Speaker 4: and then I was the third along and we convinced

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Speaker 4: this older gentleman in our town to sell us this

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Speaker 4: nine to eleven s for five hundred bucks. And I

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Speaker 4: had to mow an awful lot more lawns and to

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Speaker 4: sell a lot more apples out of my orchard to

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Speaker 4: buy the parts to restore the car.

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Speaker 3: But by the time I could drive it was ready

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Speaker 3: and good planning. It was great planning.

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Speaker 4: And I can tell you there was nobody in my

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Speaker 4: high school driving a Porsche, so I would sneak it

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Speaker 4: into the teacher's parking lot because no one would believe

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Speaker 4: that a studentdone. But it's also like back then in

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Speaker 4: the eighties, cars like that were not expensive. They were

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Speaker 4: not considered to be necessarily that valuable. They were just

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Speaker 4: kind of cool, older cars, and so we kind of

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Speaker 4: approached it as a family, like, hey, these are you

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Speaker 4: can get a lot of car for not a lot

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Speaker 4: of money and you can have something really fun to enjoy.

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Speaker 3: And so that was just my life growing up.

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Speaker 2: I love that three hundred sl from the fifties were

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Speaker 2: being sold at a depreciated price in the sixties and seventies.

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Speaker 3: Oh, of course, astonishing well.

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Speaker 4: The most valuable car today people will tell you it

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Speaker 4: was a Ferrari gto nineteen sixty two. They're worth, you know,

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Speaker 4: tens and tens of millions dollars, But in nineteen seventies

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Speaker 4: you could buy them for fifteen grand. There were nothing,

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Speaker 4: and now they're fifty million, sixty million dollars.

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Speaker 2: Unbelievable that that nine to eleven s you restored, still

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Speaker 2: have it.

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Speaker 3: I still have it, still drive it. Of course.

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Speaker 4: It's my first car out every season and the last

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Speaker 4: one I put away.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's amazing. We could spend a lot of time

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Speaker 2: talking about what else you drive, and.

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Speaker 1: Like, we'll get to that later. I'm curious, when did

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Speaker 1: you first.

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Speaker 2: Realize Haggarty could become something a whole lot larger than

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Speaker 2: a niche wooden boat insurer.

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Speaker 4: But we had already started the boat or the car

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Speaker 4: business in the early nineteen nineties. I had I've had

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Speaker 4: a couple of aha moments, and this one I remember

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Speaker 4: it like we were sitting here today and it was

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Speaker 4: the fall in nineteen ninety five. I was doing my

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Speaker 4: doctoral work in Boston and we were reading Plato's Republic

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Speaker 4: in Greek. Okay, so I'm up in Boston College. We're

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Speaker 4: working on Plato's republican Greek. That's a big slog, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I can tell you. And I was trying to help

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Speaker 4: out the family business kind of from a distance. And

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Speaker 4: the challenge with insurance. It's insurance is an incredible industry.

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Speaker 4: It's stable, there's a lot more interesting stuff to it

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Speaker 4: than people think, but it is just not very sexy

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Speaker 4: to talk about it. Nobody loves talking about insurance, and

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Speaker 4: even with these big brands and stuff today, they still

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Speaker 4: don't want to talk about it very much. And so

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Speaker 4: I was literally sitting in this Plato's Republic class and

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Speaker 4: on the side of my notebook I wrote this thing like,

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Speaker 4: if we would just stop acting like an insurance business

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Speaker 4: and start acting more like a club for car owners,

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Speaker 4: it would just transformed the conversation that you're having with people,

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Speaker 4: because then you're acting more like a car person instead

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Speaker 4: of an insurance person trying to sell a car person

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Speaker 4: something thing, and I literally wrote this idea of like

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Speaker 4: turn Haggarty into a car club.

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Speaker 3: I wrote it in my notebook and I closed my notebook.

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Speaker 4: I went home that night to my apartment, and I

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Speaker 4: dropped out of my PhD program right then, and I

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Speaker 4: went home the next week.

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Speaker 1: Well, let me validate that.

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Speaker 2: Not that you need as a public company, need my validation,

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Speaker 2: full disclosure. I have a few of my cars insured

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Speaker 2: with Haggerty. I'm a member of the club. I get

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Speaker 2: the Driver's Club magazine. But it's obvious in hindsight. Oh,

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Speaker 2: of course you're going to focus on this niche that

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Speaker 2: is kind of ignored, Yes, by the major insurance companies.

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Speaker 2: How challenging was it to convince the rest of the fam, Hey,

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Speaker 2: this is.

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Speaker 1: The way to go.

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Speaker 2: We're not an insurance company selling to car collectors, where

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Speaker 2: car people satisfying a few of the box, checking a

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Speaker 2: few of their boxes.

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Speaker 3: It took me a few years. Yeah, you know, we

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Speaker 3: were a very close family.

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Speaker 4: It was really fun to work together with everybody in

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Speaker 4: those early days. I retired after kind of that late nineties.

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Speaker 4: My mom retired shortly thereafter. I was working with my sisters,

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Speaker 4: so they kind of gave me the enough rope to

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Speaker 4: go test it out that if we just changed the

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Speaker 4: dialogue and acted just we're going to build an automotive

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Speaker 4: branded business that happens to sell insurance, and we're going

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Speaker 4: to do it around this membership concept. It wasn't like

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Speaker 4: no one had ever done something like that. You know,

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Speaker 4: if you think in the early days, Triple A was

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Speaker 4: kind of like that, the Motor Club, that kind of

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Speaker 4: you know, they've they're very different than that. Now if

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Speaker 4: you were to even think of something like AARP, which is,

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Speaker 4: you know, a different sort of segment, like there is

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Speaker 4: a you know there in it. They sell a lot

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Speaker 4: of insurance and they treat this group of people USAA

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Speaker 4: serving military family people and families. It just nobody had

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Speaker 4: ever done it in a business like ours, and so

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Speaker 4: it took a little while to convince them that that

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Speaker 4: was the way to go to market and we could

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Speaker 4: change the way we were thinking. But you mentioned something

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Speaker 4: that was another piece in this which was the next aha,

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Speaker 4: next to hot was that most of these cars were

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Speaker 4: insured by the big insurance companies. So thanks State, Farm,

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Speaker 4: all State, you know today, Progressive, Geico, everybody, and you know,

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Speaker 4: we're a little company, and we had a tiny family business, like,

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Speaker 4: how the heck are you going to compete against these monsters?

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Speaker 4: And so after we got the club kind of up

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Speaker 4: and running, I realized, well, what if we just partnered

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Speaker 4: with these companies rather than competing against them, and said, look,

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Speaker 4: we're we're going to do one thing and one thing only.

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Speaker 3: We're going to be expert in these cars.

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Speaker 4: We know the customers really well, we're building a really big,

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Speaker 4: rich bunch of data, and what if we partnered with them?

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Speaker 4: And so the first big partnership like this we landed

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Speaker 4: how twenty two twenty three years ago, and that was

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Speaker 4: with all State, and all State's huge and huge company.

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Speaker 4: I knew they ensured hundreds of thousands of these cars

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Speaker 4: ago exactly lots of you know, lots of interesting things

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Speaker 4: in that company, and I convinced. I met the CEO

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Speaker 4: at the time, and just through kind of people help

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Speaker 4: connect us, and I said, look, I think I can

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Speaker 4: make you better at this one tiny little thing if

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Speaker 4: you just give us a chance. And they're still a

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Speaker 4: partner today, still grow that program grows every year. And

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Speaker 4: now we've just moved through the entire insurance industry. We've partnered,

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Speaker 4: you know, virtually with all of the big insurance companies.

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Speaker 4: And so today if you go, you know, insure your

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Speaker 4: home and your auto and everything with one of them.

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Speaker 4: But you have a vintage car, collector car, whatever you

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Speaker 4: want to call it, that usually comes to us. And

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Speaker 4: so the big scalability of the business was one show

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Speaker 4: up like a club like this member organization, to partner

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Speaker 4: rather than to compete. And if you can partner, you know,

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Speaker 4: because if you're if you're small, it's impossible to compete

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Speaker 4: against a huge company. But if you partner with them,

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Speaker 4: it changes the game.

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Speaker 2: Well, when you say it's impossible to compete, one of

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Speaker 2: the fascinating things about ensuring an old VET or an

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Speaker 2: old Portie is, you know, any of the big farms

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Speaker 2: are going to charge you fifteen hundred, twenty five hundred

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Speaker 2: a year, you guys, for all right, So I have

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Speaker 2: a sixty seven VET, which is actually my least favorite

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Speaker 2: car to drive.

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Speaker 3: I want to switch switch motor to ask.

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Speaker 2: The three but with a stick Nasau blue over white, spectacular.

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Speaker 2: But it's a pig to drive. But it doesn't matter

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Speaker 2: because I think progressive. It was like twenty two hundred,

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Speaker 2: you guys, were five hundred and change because of the data.

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Speaker 2: You guys know how often these are driven, know the value.

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Speaker 2: You know, they're really not going to get stolen. It's

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Speaker 2: pretty as much as gone in sixty seconds made it

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Speaker 2: look sexy. Everybody knows these cars they're VENs where they

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Speaker 2: are especially something rare and valuable, which the vet is not.

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Speaker 2: It's really fascinating that nobody else saw this until you

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Speaker 2: guys did.

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Speaker 1: How did the pricing model come along?

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Speaker 4: Well, it's you know, and you talked about you drive

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Speaker 4: your car, but you probably don't drive it very much.

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Speaker 4: You probably have daily drivers that you know you drive

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Speaker 4: more and you know, are less concerned about where you

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Speaker 4: park it and that sort of thing. And you know,

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Speaker 4: my late mother passed away just two years ago. I

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Speaker 4: remember asking her, even I'd ask her every year. Her

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Speaker 4: memory wasn't so great towards the end of her life,

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Speaker 4: Like Mom, what made this business special? And she would

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Speaker 4: just say, because people take good care of their toys,

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Speaker 4: of course, And that is the core emotional nugget of

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Speaker 4: this business. You know, people have a toy, they spent

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Speaker 4: real money on it, and they take good care of it.

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Speaker 4: And wherever there is care, there is better insurance risk.

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Speaker 4: So you can charge less. You charge less, you know,

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Speaker 4: you can build marketing around that. You can get a

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Speaker 4: little bit of momentum, but not just a little less.

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Speaker 4: It's not like all beating them by ten percent. It's

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Speaker 4: a fraction of what you pay for regular insurance. Well right,

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Speaker 4: And look, you're the typical sixty seven Corvette owner probably

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Speaker 4: drives that car one thousand, maybe fifteen hundred miles a year,

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Speaker 4: some years less some years.

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Speaker 2: I have half the guys in my car group, and

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Speaker 2: they're almost old guys, but not not exclusively. Some of

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Speaker 2: these guys have ten twenty thirty cars exactly, So if

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Speaker 2: they're driving a car, it's something different.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they're putting five hundred miles a year on.

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Speaker 3: Each car at most.

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Speaker 4: So like one of the things you asked about pricing,

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Speaker 4: So not only is the pricing on the physical car

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Speaker 4: less expensive with us on the liability too. And it's

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Speaker 4: exactly to that point. You can only drive one car

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Speaker 4: at a time. Liability follows the person, not the car.

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Speaker 4: And so we had a ad very early on in

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Speaker 4: the program.

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Speaker 3: We had it.

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Speaker 4: There was a now late collector out in the Pacific

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Speaker 4: Northwest with over two thousand cars, and we sat and

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Speaker 4: we put a name his face on one of our ads,

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Speaker 4: and he said, here's Harold LeMay, our worst nightmare because

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Speaker 4: he has two thousand cars, but we charge him only

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Speaker 4: one time for liability.

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Speaker 1: So how do you is that a fleet insurance?

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Speaker 3: How do you do something like that?

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Speaker 2: Like if someone has more? And I think the line

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Speaker 2: I heard about tattoos lies to cars. Two tattoos is

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Speaker 2: either too few or too many, And if you have

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Speaker 2: half a dozen or a dozen cars, it's probably too

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Speaker 2: many to manage yourself, but too few to hire a

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Speaker 2: full time jay Leno like guy to run it.

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Speaker 4: Most people are space limited, right, If they have enough

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Speaker 4: money to be into it, they end up buying everything

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Speaker 4: that they can afford and still store.

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Speaker 1: Right, So the store is the pastoragt.

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Speaker 2: I'm waiting for permission to build a garage, a detached

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Speaker 2: garage as opposed to my building garage, and that if

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Speaker 2: that gets approved by the town, that's going to be

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Speaker 2: both dangerous and expensive.

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Speaker 3: Well I'm gonna love it though, because then.

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Speaker 2: Because that's six more cars storage for you guys. Really

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Speaker 2: really interesting. Coming up, we continue our conversation with Mkhil

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Speaker 2: Haggerty CEO of the specialty insurance firm, talking about how

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Speaker 2: he built the company into a one and a half

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Speaker 2: billion dollar revenue driver.

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Speaker 1: I'm Barry Ridults. You're listening to Masters in Business.

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Speaker 2: On Bloomberg Radio. I'm Barry Ridults. You're listening to Masters

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Speaker 2: in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My extra special guest this

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Speaker 2: week is Mkhil Haggerty. He is the chairman and CEO

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Speaker 2: of Haggarty Collector Car Insurance. The farm insures every collectible

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Speaker 2: vehicle and a handful of boats for more than almost

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Speaker 2: three million collectors. So twenty twenty five revenues of one

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Speaker 2: point five billion, one point three billion in written premium,

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Speaker 2: a record three hundred and seventy one thousand new members,

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Speaker 2: net income plus ninety one percent. This is a real

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Speaker 2: publicly traded company hgt Y.

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Speaker 4: Yes, wow, that used to have hair when we started

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Speaker 4: all of that, But I you know it, things are

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Speaker 4: going well.

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Speaker 2: So I guess if you're not pulling your hair out

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Speaker 2: of your head, you're you're not public. Let's talk about

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Speaker 2: how you've driven this. One of the interesting insights that

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Speaker 2: seems to have shaped your strategy was that collective cars

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Speaker 2: aren't just financial assets. Their emotional assets, you described them

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Speaker 2: as favorite toys. How did that shape how the firm developed?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 4: And we started in the simplest possible way, which we

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Speaker 4: were an insurance agency. You know, you might have mentioned

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Speaker 4: that even early in the first intro, and that's true.

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Speaker 4: That's the easiest way to kind of get into one

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Speaker 4: of these things. You know, as I mentioned, we started

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Speaker 4: with kind of a specialty product, which was ensuring special cars.

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Speaker 4: The product, you know, the insurance policy forms were unique

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Speaker 4: or pricing.

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Speaker 3: We had a unique approach. We had this driver's.

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Speaker 4: Club model that you started really helping that compounding aspect

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Speaker 4: of it.

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Speaker 3: But one of the big.

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Speaker 4: Pieces that I guess I dreamed of is that if

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Speaker 4: we actually started taking real risk and became the insurance

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Speaker 4: company itself, not just an agency selling policies for somebody yeltse,

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Speaker 4: it would be the same customer coming in, but we'd

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Speaker 4: have so much more of a chance to you know,

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Speaker 4: really build a revenue behind it.

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Speaker 3: So the other big piece.

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Speaker 4: After, you know, if my first aha was driver's club,

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Speaker 4: second AHA was you know, really realizing we needed a

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Speaker 4: partnership rather than to compete with the big insurance companies.

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Speaker 3: It was how do we start taking risk?

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Speaker 4: So that that's been a multi multi year, really decade

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Speaker 4: long journey that we started in twenty seventeen, got that

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Speaker 4: up and running, and it was really a big key

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Speaker 4: piece of how we went public in twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 4: and that is that we were going to you know,

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Speaker 4: we had everybody knew we had a unique angle on

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Speaker 4: this market, that our economics looked great in the business,

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Speaker 4: but that we could realize even that much more. And

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Speaker 4: so that's really been the next big piece of all

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Speaker 4: of this, and it all kind of compounds on itself

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Speaker 4: because if you in Sure Car, you we use the

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Speaker 4: club to kind of engage people. You know, you mentioned

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Speaker 4: reading the Hager Driver's Club magazine. I mean that is

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Speaker 4: that is by the way, I don't think the word

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Speaker 4: insurance is mentioned in that magazine.

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Speaker 3: It's a car magazine and.

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Speaker 1: The Cars and Roads.

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Speaker 4: Really yes, and it is the now highest circulation car

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Speaker 4: magazine in the world.

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Speaker 2: No, kid, I did not know that. That's really that's

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Speaker 2: really interesting. So the evolution from insurance to an automotive

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Speaker 2: lifestyle brand goes beyond the club membership, goes beyond the magazine, events, auctions,

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Speaker 2: valuation data.

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Speaker 1: Walk us through how that all evolved.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, and I was.

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Speaker 4: I was a big fan of car magazines as a

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Speaker 4: big fan of automotive media. I mean that's how I

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Speaker 4: read my way into understanding the car world and going

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Speaker 4: to events. So and I always remember somebody told me

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Speaker 4: once that if you're gonna, if you're gonna go into

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Speaker 4: a niche business that you're really proud of, you kind

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Speaker 4: of need to have. You need to have the high

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Speaker 4: ground on your side. And for me, the high ground

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Speaker 4: was if I could have a media property that where

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Speaker 4: we would you know, kind of have that intellectual high

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Speaker 4: that would help.

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Speaker 3: The other piece is the data aspect of it.

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Speaker 4: When I was, you know, growing the business and the team,

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Speaker 4: you know, we have incredible teams. We're out there trying

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Speaker 4: to figure it out. Valuing these cars was so tricky

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Speaker 4: because there was a lot of opinions about what cars

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Speaker 4: were worth, but not a lot of really good data.

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Speaker 4: And so, you know, as we were investing in the

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Speaker 4: media pieces talking about cars and entertaining people, we built

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Speaker 4: the data resources. We call it our Automotive Intelligence Group.

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Speaker 4: We have by far the richest sets of data about

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Speaker 4: how to value these things. And it's down to that

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Speaker 4: VIN or serial number you know, you mentioned how does

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Speaker 4: a big insurance.

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Speaker 3: Company, you know, why didn't they do it?

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Speaker 4: And I remember this conversation years ago in one of

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Speaker 4: those partner discussions where I mentioned the CEO as a

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Speaker 4: car guy, really wanted to kind of compete with us,

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Speaker 4: wasn't sure if you wanted to partner with us, And

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Speaker 4: I said, well, do you know what a nineteen sixty

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Speaker 4: nine Camaro is? And he said, I sure, do you

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Speaker 4: know he's kind of pretty happy with himself.

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Speaker 3: And I said, you may not know that.

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Speaker 4: In nineteen sixteen and the Camaro came in one hundred

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Speaker 4: and forty seven different variants, and that year the least

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Speaker 4: expensive one was worth about eleven grand and the most

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Speaker 4: valuable one was worth about one point one million. And

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Speaker 4: you can't tell the difference by looking at them from

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Speaker 4: the outside. You have to understand what that serial number is.

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Speaker 4: And I said, we built a patented serial number decoder

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Speaker 4: for all cars pre nineteen eighty one so that we

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Speaker 4: could understand our universe and start providing that data. And

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Speaker 4: that's why our partners like us. But it's real asset

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Speaker 4: to have that kind of data to and then build

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Speaker 4: on it every year. You know, you mentioned three hundred

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Speaker 4: and seventy one thousand new customers. We'll do quite a

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Speaker 4: bit more than that in twenty twenty six. That those

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00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,359
Speaker 4: are all just it's not just insurance or revenue, it's

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Speaker 4: also data coming our way.

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Speaker 3: What are people buying, what are they insuring them for?

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Speaker 3: What do they sell?

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Speaker 4: You know, when somebody sells a car, it's also a

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Speaker 4: data point, and so for us that that kind of

443
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,399
Speaker 4: data piece. And again it's all a big not just

444
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 4: because I'm a car person. I view it as a flywheel.

445
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 4: It's a flywheel and it all kind of spins, and

446
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,680
Speaker 4: insurance is a beautiful thing, but the rest of it

447
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:01,840
Speaker 4: speeds up the flywheel.

448
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, to say the very least. So the valuation tools

449
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 2: you have are really interesting. The bull market list you

450
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 2: have has become very influential. I actually reference some of

451
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 2: your valuation tools in a chapter on my book on

452
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 2: selection bias.

453
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 3: Every time some.

454
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 2: Car goes for a new record high, there's always a

455
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 2: bunch of media coverage and they talk about, look at

456
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 2: what a great investment this is, and it's like, no,

457
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:30,640
Speaker 2: that's all survivorship.

458
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,160
Speaker 1: I show me the other ten. Don't show me what was.

459
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,640
Speaker 2: The best car of the past fifty years. What car

460
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,159
Speaker 2: are you going to buy now to put away for

461
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 2: the next fifty years. That's a much harder question. You

462
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 2: don't know the answer, but your valuation tools have been

463
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 2: really helpful that sort of stuff.

464
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 1: How did you build that capabilities?

465
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,640
Speaker 2: It simply just hey, every data point we come across

466
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 2: from clients, we're going to suck into a database and figure.

467
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 3: Out that was exactly it.

468
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 4: I mean, if most media outlets that weren't part of

469
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 4: our world, if they were covering the space, they were

470
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 4: using a lot of anecdotal information kind of dealer fed information,

471
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 4: or just looking at public auctions. And I love public

472
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 4: auctions too, Like you can learn a lot from watching

473
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 4: what all the different auction companies do. And now with

474
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 4: so many good online places, it's like even more data.

475
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 4: But what we realized with our scale is like we

476
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,479
Speaker 4: just had way more data points than all of that

477
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 4: because again, people buying cars and sharing them with us,

478
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 4: adding to leting, it was just this big flow. And yeah,

479
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,120
Speaker 4: it took a lot of people a lot smarter than

480
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 4: than I am, to build all the you know, the

481
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 4: not just the database stuff, but the analytics capability around it.

482
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 3: And now with AI it's even better.

483
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 4: And then as we started realizing we could get other

484
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 4: data sources that help us validate even more, not just

485
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 4: in the US, but outside of the US. It's really

486
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 4: been a fun part of the business. It's I'll tell

487
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,400
Speaker 4: you what there's it's a smart team and I love

488
00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 4: learning from them.

489
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 3: They teach me stuff every day that I need to know.

490
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 2: So you mentioned auctions and online auctions in addition to

491
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 2: Bring a Trailer and cars and Bids and Peak Car,

492
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 2: you guys are now going to get into online auctions

493
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 2: for your client's cars or you just partner.

494
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 4: With Oh no, no, we have a Hagardy marketplace platform which

495
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 4: is uh online auctions.

496
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 2: And then you've had online classifying classify time. How How

497
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 2: rapidly is the auction side growing.

498
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 3: It's growing rapidly.

499
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 4: I mean, we just we have such a supply that

500
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,919
Speaker 4: you we have a lot. We have way more supply

501
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 4: than than you think. And if you think about some

502
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,479
Speaker 4: of those other great companies like Bring a Trailer's been

503
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 4: such a darling in this space. Cars and Bids the

504
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 4: number two in the US. But there's a supply and

505
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 4: demand balance that everybody has to strike because if you

506
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 4: flood a digital marketplace with too much supply, then the

507
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 4: bidders go away, and so you and if the bidders

508
00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 4: go away, then nobody's happy. The bidders won't put their

509
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 4: cars on it. So it's this it's a fast build,

510
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 4: but it's steady. That the live auction side of the

511
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 4: business brought Arrow, which was an acquisition we did after

512
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 4: going public. That's a remarkable business because I had followed

513
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 4: that industry for a long time around the world. But

514
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 4: it's all about getting the right team, and in my mind,

515
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 4: because I'm very protective of our brand and our reputation,

516
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 4: we had to have the kind of team that wasn't

517
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,719
Speaker 4: prepared to build the number one live auction business, but

518
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 4: they have to do it in a way that I'm

519
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 4: proud of because and I'm not saying that, you know,

520
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 4: it's all good or bad, but I wanted to be

521
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 4: I wanted to be very proud of the outcome because

522
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 4: things will go wrong. You have to make things right

523
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 4: for customers. Sometimes cars that people bring to you to

524
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 4: sell aren't described exactly as they actually are, and you

525
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 4: have to find that out and politely tell them, well,

526
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 4: I'm not sure this is a million dollar car it's

527
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 4: one hundred thousand dollars car, and you know, sorry, if

528
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 4: you wanted us to sell for one hundred thousand, we will,

529
00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:59,959
Speaker 4: but we're not selling it for a million because it's

530
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 4: our reputation too. And so again, the way I think

531
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 4: about it now is most people come to us to

532
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 4: ensure a car, then they buy the membership thing, and

533
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 4: we engage them and do media and a lot of

534
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 4: fun stuff, invite them to our events, and about every

535
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 4: seven years on average, somebody buys or sells a car,

536
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,719
Speaker 4: and that's where I want to be there and present

537
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 4: in their minds so that we help them on that

538
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 4: transactional side.

539
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 3: And plus you've.

540
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 4: Probably been to auctions or watched them on television. Is

541
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 4: they're fun, Like car auctions are super fun. You know,

542
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 4: it's live, it's viber, and it's interesting. Sometimes there's multimillion

543
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 4: dollar cars up there selling that you can't even believe

544
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 4: anybody would pay multimillion dollars for this car, And we

545
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 4: do that too. I mean, that's why we have brought

546
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 4: Arrow and we connect it with some of our concore events.

547
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 3: In many cases they're around the world. We just had our.

548
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 4: Broad Arrow auction at the Concourse so at Villadeste, the

549
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 4: Villadesta Concourse, So Delagonza, and that was a really successful

550
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 4: sale and super cool place to have an auction right

551
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 4: on Lake Como in Italy, and Italy looks beautiful.

552
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,719
Speaker 2: You've been a judge at Pebble Beach for a while.

553
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 3: I know this five years. I think this is my

554
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 3: twenty five wow.

555
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 2: And I know there was an affiliation with one of

556
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 2: the local concourses here.

557
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 3: Maybe it's Grantwich Greenwich Cheah. That is an event we own,

558
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 3: so we produced that just recently.

559
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's ah, it's too close to a holiday weekend.

560
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 3: Otherwise I would be there. Oh you gotta come.

561
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 2: It's I'm usually out at the beach on Memorial Day.

562
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 2: We agon but but we'll circle back to that. I'm

563
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 2: also a big fan of your YouTube channel. I really

564
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,959
Speaker 2: like Jason Camiz's work. I've learned a lot about cars

565
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 2: that I think I know and then he does a

566
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 2: deep dive into a particular model and I'm like, I

567
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 2: didn't know that about the Toyota Supra.

568
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: Who would have Who would have guessed?

569
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 2: How did YouTube become such a major part of your brand?

570
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 4: Well, it's it's one of the well it's really the

571
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 4: de facto platform for people watching kind of introductory level

572
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 4: automotive content. And obviously lots of brands are putting stuff

573
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 4: out there. But what we realized is if you think

574
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 4: about the big sort of arc of how people have

575
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 4: learned about or consumed automotive media, where it's shifted since

576
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 4: the nineties was magazines were you know, the main platform

577
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 4: for a long time. Then when you got you know,

578
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 4: the first dedicated cable network, which was Autoweek speed Vision,

579
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 4: you got some of those you started seeing auctions on there.

580
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 4: But then a lot of that content started migrating to YouTube.

581
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 4: But what I wanted to do was do it like

582
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 4: as the same high quality like we were doing in

583
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 4: the magazine, so higher total pros shoot the stuff really well,

584
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 4: you know, great cameras, great locations, all of that stuff.

585
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 2: It is obvious high production value. Like there are a

586
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 2: lot of YouTube channels that are kind of interesting cars

587
00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 2: or otherwise, but the appeal has always been two iPhones

588
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 2: and a wireless mic and a go bro tobbles Go

589
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 2: Bro Right. I've seen a bunch of channels that they're

590
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 2: they're using these not necessarily the go pros.

591
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: Uh, you guys, really.

592
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 2: Put a lot of thought and a lot of time,

593
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 2: effort and money into them.

594
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 3: Well, we do.

595
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 4: And they're not all just drag races. Nothing wrong with

596
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 4: drag races. I like them too. It kind of is

597
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 4: a it's a kind of data point about what makes

598
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 4: a car cool. But I think Jason just takes it

599
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 4: to a whole new level. For example, we also have

600
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 4: a you know, one of our one of our shows,

601
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 4: and by the way, we also have you know, we

602
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 4: have a fast channel on Samsung TV, on on Amazon Prime.

603
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 4: You know, our content is available out there like a

604
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 4: digital television show. Our Barnfine Hunter show for years, you've

605
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 4: probably seen it, which is, you know, this incredible talent

606
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 4: in Tom Cotter going around and finding great cars in

607
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 4: barns and kind of doing the big reveal like an

608
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 4: antiques road show kind of concept, but in the garage

609
00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 4: rather than brought to some studios.

610
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 3: Some and people like it.

611
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 4: There's like some interesting fascination with the US television audience

612
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 4: of finding the treasure in the garage and don't you

613
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 4: wish it was you who found it?

614
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 3: And I find them fascinating.

615
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 4: We even you may have seen one of the shows

616
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 4: we produced for a long time they're kind of winding down.

617
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 4: But it was called Redline Rebuild, and it was where

618
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 4: we would do these time laps rebuilding of an engine,

619
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 4: where you know, you take a big, dirty engine apart

620
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 4: and it would all kind of like appear to assemble

621
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 4: itself on an engine stand and then it would start

622
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 4: and just it was mesmerizing.

623
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: That's the word I was about.

624
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's another channel that does the same thing with

625
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 2: old watches, oh and rebuilds them. And it's the same

626
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 2: sort of why this is so fascinating, Yes, as Redline,

627
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 2: it's the exact same same thing. Coming up, we continue

628
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 2: our conversation with Nikhil Haggerty, CEO and chairman of Haggarty's

629
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 2: Specialty Insurance, discussing the electric car community.

630
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: Today. I'm Barry Ridults.

631
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 2: You're listening to Master's Business.

632
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: On Bloomberg Radio. I'm Barry Ridults.

633
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 2: You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My

634
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 2: extra special guest today is Mikhail Hagerty. He is the

635
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 2: CEO and chairman of the namesake specialty insurance company specializing

636
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 2: in collectible cars automotive everything from cars, truck's, military vehicles,

637
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 2: including classic wooden boats are those old Chriscraft or are

638
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 2: there some other brands that make the way.

639
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 4: Chris Craft and Century were the two big manufacturers in

640
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 4: the United States. There were sort of some more boutique

641
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,959
Speaker 4: brands like Garwood and Hackercraft, which were really high end craft.

642
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 3: I've Hackercraft. Those are big, tend to be a little bigger, right,

643
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 3: a little bit.

644
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 4: Bigger, triple cockpit kind of style boats for those who

645
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 4: are really into the artisanal cheese of the of the

646
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 4: boat world.

647
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 3: I love the Canadian brand so well.

648
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 4: There was a whole group of really fine boat builders

649
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 4: up there, Manette, Shield, Barnes, Gravett, brands that most Americans

650
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 4: would not know of. But if you ever get a

651
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 4: chance to go up to like the Muskoka Lakes, which

652
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 4: is just north of Toronto, it's they're just exquisite, like

653
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 4: beautifully built boats. They're like considered national treasures up there,

654
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 4: so you don't see many of them in the US.

655
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 3: But that's that's just spent. That was part of my upbringing.

656
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 4: Like when when we were my mom and dad were

657
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 4: building the boat business and I was a teenager of

658
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 4: a Psychi We're going to going a boat show, going

659
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 4: to Canada, going to Lake Tahoe going to the finger Lakes.

660
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 3: That's so interesting.

661
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 2: I took some friends to the boat show last year

662
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 2: and the new chrisscrafts are shockingly beautiful, like they have

663
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 2: aged into modernity really well. Like it's almost like a

664
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 2: retro modes because it's very contemporary and very modern, but

665
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 2: clearly design language from way back when. Yeah.

666
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 4: There, I think it's a little bit like that Hinckley

667
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 4: crowd where they're trying to find a retro modern boat

668
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 4: but with kind of retro looks and.

669
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 3: So love it.

670
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 2: So let's let's let's keep this on cars away from boats.

671
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 2: And there's a quote of yours that I have to

672
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 2: start with because it's I really like it. The best

673
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 2: piece of advice is to buy the car you want

674
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 2: to drive, and then buy the best example you can afford.

675
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 2: This may sound obvious, but not all vintage cars drive

676
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 2: the way people hope they would. So there's nothing in

677
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 2: that I disagree with discuss.

678
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there's so many people that they they

679
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 4: envision someday when they have that little bit of extra resources.

680
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 4: You know, that's going to be my toy. I want

681
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 4: to get into the car world. And if they weren't

682
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 4: one hundred percent in this their whole life, or they

683
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 4: you know, their parents weren't into it, or you didn't

684
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 4: have an uncle or somebody in your life who elects

685
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 4: you drive in these things. I often recommend people try

686
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 4: to get a chance to drive what you think you want,

687
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 4: because the older cars do drive very differently. Yes, and

688
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 4: even if you think of say muscle cars from the sixties,

689
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 4: they were very fast. I mean, these are cars that

690
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 4: are in a straight line and a straight line a

691
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 4: lot of power. They do not stop or turn as

692
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 4: well as you think, and you just have to get

693
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 4: used to that. I mean, I love cars of all generations.

694
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 4: I love driving very early cars. I have some newer cars,

695
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 4: and I always just have to kind of center myself

696
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 4: when I get behind the wheel, to remember, like, okay,

697
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 4: this is this is not a this is not my

698
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 4: Porscha techon, which is you know, like this incredible piece

699
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 4: of technology, you know, electric car. It's a vintage internal

700
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 4: combustion car with funky brakes, and you have to be

701
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 4: ready for it. So I always recommend people drive them

702
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 4: and recognize that maybe it had air conditioning, maybe the

703
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 4: air conditioning doesn't work, it doesn't matter like roll down

704
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 4: the window and to enjoy yourself.

705
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 3: Manually, manually.

706
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 1: And I tell the story the vet the sixty seven.

707
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: It's a lap break. Lap belts is not a three

708
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 1: point belt.

709
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 2: They couldn't be bothered to put a passenger side mirror on, no,

710
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 2: because you know, what do you what are you need

711
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 2: to see?

712
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: And the steering is just beastly.

713
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 2: But I also like the concept of buy the best

714
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 2: example you can afford. And I find myself constantly saying

715
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 2: to people a cheap asst In Martin is the most

716
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 2: expensive car you could possibly buy.

717
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: But people don't really really get that.

718
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they're you know, look different, different eras of

719
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 4: cars come with their own challenges sometimes, you know, I

720
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 4: think as as we're seeing this onslaught of new generations

721
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 4: coming in and wanting to buy slightly newer cars. I mean,

722
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 4: it's sixty whatever percent of all of our you know,

723
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 4: new quotes and new cars coming into the space are

724
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 4: all like relatively newer cars. Car know, nineteen eighties, nineties,

725
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 4: two thousands cars. Some of those cars, for example, it

726
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 4: may not be a mechanical issue that can drive you

727
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 4: a little crazy, it's an electrical issue that will drive

728
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 4: you a little crazy if you think of, you know,

729
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 4: some of the screens and the CD players and all

730
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 4: the little control things that back in nineteen ninety whatever

731
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 4: was you know, the biggest whizbang feature. Well, it doesn't

732
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 4: work so well anymore. The car runs fine, but you

733
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 4: know you're not going to be able to use the

734
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 4: antiquated NAV system. I just tell people like, it'll relax,

735
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 4: it's fine, and you know, enjoy the car.

736
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 3: Drive it. You know, all my kids I always asked, like,

737
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 3: well does the radio work in this thing.

738
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 4: I'm like, I have no idea, it's never been on.

739
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 4: I'm there to drive, and it's such a fun activity.

740
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 4: As you know, they've gone, just enjoy it, enjoy driving

741
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 4: a car for pleasure. And I also tell one, you know,

742
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:50,879
Speaker 4: the first thing I tell people who's sort of new

743
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 4: to the space, like, well, I want to take it

744
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 4: out to dinner, And I'm like, make sure you take

745
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 4: it out during the day first a few times, because

746
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 4: sometimes cars leave you in the restaurant parking lot at night.

747
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,439
Speaker 4: So people, if you drive them, and I'm like, because

748
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 4: I'm not sure I'm going to get home.

749
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 2: If you're if you're used to modern cars, you will

750
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 2: be shocked at how terrible the headlights are on Forget

751
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,240
Speaker 2: sixties eighties era's car.

752
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: Those were not really great headlights.

753
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 3: They weren't great. They're not dangerous or anything. You just

754
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 3: have to be aware that they don't have all the

755
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 3: modern technology.

756
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 2: Well, when all the headlights were that way, you just said,

757
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 2: this is what the lighting is and you had to

758
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 2: be aware of it.

759
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 3: That's right.

760
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 2: It's when you go backwards, you take a lot of things.

761
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 2: For forget the blind side warnings and the backup cameras.

762
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 2: Just your expectation of field of vision is so different.

763
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 2: So so let's.

764
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 3: It's a different kind of attention driving.

765
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: A yeah car, it's much more focused.

766
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 4: It's more focused, and I love it, and you know,

767
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 4: I encourage people, you know, just try it out.

768
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 3: It's a it's a great experience.

769
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 2: So, so, what are some of the bigger trends you're

770
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 2: seeing in collecting what what's changing these days?

771
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 4: Well, again, big big story, you know, contrary to know

772
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 4: data that we were reading a few years ago, is

773
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 4: the next generations are absolutely into cars.

774
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 3: They like them.

775
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 4: They're just into different kind of cars than our parents were.

776
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 3: We were.

777
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 2: Probably, Well, doesn't every generation sort of lust after the

778
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 2: cars from the high school parking lot.

779
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 3: I think that's right, they did, and they're different.

780
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 4: And I'm one of my little cottage industry things that

781
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 4: I do is if I remember driving anywhere near a

782
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 4: high school parking lot, I look to see where the

783
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 4: young car people park their cars, and they usually park

784
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 4: them in the back of the parking lot and not

785
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 4: up near the school, and they all park next to

786
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 4: each other. So then go hang out afterwards. And what

787
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 4: you're going to see right now of a butt with

788
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 4: the seventeen and eighteen year old's car people in these

789
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 4: high schools is you know, you're going to see BMW's,

790
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 4: You're going to see Audi's, You're going to see some

791
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 4: you know, various performance Japanese cars. You know, you're not

792
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 4: going to see anything fancy. They can't afford them, but

793
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 4: that's the cars they're starting with. Trucks are, of course

794
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,240
Speaker 4: another big entry point and it's another another huge trend,

795
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 4: so not just pickup trucks, but kind of vintage SUVs.

796
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 3: So jeeps are still right now one of the hottest brands.

797
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:08,720
Speaker 3: It's huge.

798
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 4: Of course, Broncos are one of the hottest things. Of course,

799
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 4: if they can afford them. You know, depending on it,

800
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,760
Speaker 4: a land Rover or International Scouts. These are the cars

801
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 4: that people are interested in because so many cars today

802
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,399
Speaker 4: are SUVs anyway, and so the vintage version of them

803
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 4: are one of these kind of more off road vehicles,

804
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 4: and there's a big industry of modifying them, making them

805
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 4: work a little bit better.

806
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 3: And so that's another big trend.

807
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 4: So again, next generation trucks, I guess I would say,

808
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 4: I mean flying over the top of the whole industry,

809
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 4: which you know, at the top top end of the market.

810
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 4: And just to add on to the answer to your

811
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 4: question is, you know, the ultra luxury kind of supercar

812
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 4: manufacturers are making more cars than ever ever before, and

813
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 4: so you think of those brands like Ferrari or Lamborghini

814
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 4: or Bentley or you know even portion beloved nine to

815
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 4: eleven ass those companies are just building a lot more

816
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 4: cars and pumping them out into the market at price

817
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 4: points that were different than they used to. So you

818
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 4: know when Ferrari or Lamborghini were building hundreds of cars

819
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 4: a year, well now Ferrari's a fourteen thousand unity year manufacturer.

820
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 4: Lamborghini when you add their suv in, it's an eight

821
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 4: or nine thousand vehicle manufacturer. I mean, when I was

822
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 4: a kid, you never saw Lamborghini unless you just happen

823
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 4: to be in Beverly Hills or Palm Beach or something.

824
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 4: And now they're everywhere. I mean even in my little

825
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 4: town in northern Michigan, they're a couple Lamborghinis driving around.

826
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, my goodness, you know, that's amazing.

827
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: And so what's crazy is where I live.

828
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 2: I'm fifteen minutes from a Ferrari dealer, two Porsche dealers,

829
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 2: the Bentley Lambeau dealer, and I take it for granted

830
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 2: I see these cars all the time. But as a kid,

831
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 2: you hardly ever saw these around. You wouldn't have like

832
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 2: a Porsche was an exciting thing.

833
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 3: It was.

834
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 4: So they are building my next generation of customers. Every

835
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,720
Speaker 4: one of these manu facturers are like my best friends

836
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 4: because they're they're building the cars that I will be

837
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 4: ensuring this year and twenty five years from now.

838
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 2: So so your boy Jason Kamisa mentioned he's only a

839
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 2: manual driver. I embrace that makes the car even that

840
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 2: much more difficult to steal. But I'm curious amongst the

841
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 2: trends in collecting, I've been hearing about a move towards analog,

842
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 2: towards manual, away from the big dominant screens.

843
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 3: What does your data say, Well, it's true.

844
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 4: And in fact, you know, you think about some of

845
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 4: those very same supercar manufacturers that you know, we're you know,

846
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 4: they signaled years ago we're getting rid of manuals. You know,

847
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 4: everything's going to become this super electronic sort of driving experience,

848
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:48,919
Speaker 4: faster on a tracks track.

849
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah that and they are.

850
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 4: And by the way, the one nice thing about the

851
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 4: PDK if you drive them in the winter, like I

852
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 4: happen to love driving Porsches in the winter, PDK is

853
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 4: pretty nice in the snow for what it's But setting

854
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 4: that aside is I'm just totally impressed that many of

855
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 4: these car companies are kind of going back on what

856
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 4: they said they were going to be doing and starting

857
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 4: to not reintroduce manuals, but they're producing another extra model

858
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:15,919
Speaker 4: with the manual.

859
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: In at a very high price.

860
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 2: The Porschie Sts or the Sport or all the GT

861
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 2: threes if you want a manual. My GTS was the

862
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 2: last year it came with a manual, which was twenty

863
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 2: four and the turbo.

864
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: I think twenty thirteen was the last year with a

865
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: manual something like that.

866
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 2: So it's amazing they took the supply away and said,

867
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:41,760
Speaker 2: all right.

868
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: If you want a manual, give it to you.

869
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 3: But it's three hundred thousand dollars. Yes.

870
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 4: And what they saw is they were looking at the

871
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 4: auction data, like from our auction companies and others, and

872
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 4: suddenly the manual version of something huge, absolute premium.

873
00:42:56,120 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 2: And now manual swaps are showing up in in V

874
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 2: twelve Aston Martin's and four thirty Ferraris.

875
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: I see these all the.

876
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 4: Time absolutely, So again it's I think it's the return

877
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 4: of the analog people more, you know, interested in driving.

878
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 4: I mean, I think I think we're all trying to

879
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 4: absorb what COVID did.

880
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 3: COVID was a boom.

881
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 4: I'm sure time for these kind of cars, but you know,

882
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 4: even afterwards, I think, you know, people were embracing slower hobbies,

883
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 4: slower things, you know, playing music, camping, hiking, you know,

884
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 4: outdoor pursuits, and you know in some of these things

885
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,399
Speaker 4: kind of cars sort of fit into that a little bit,

886
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 4: which is, you know, something to just go out and

887
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 4: take a long, slow Sunday afternoon drive is not something

888
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 4: that you know, the rush rush world of what mileage

889
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 4: does it get? And you know, what's the least payment

890
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 4: on it? You know, it's it's just a it comes

891
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 4: from a different place and there's a bigger audience than

892
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 4: people think who are willing to spend real money on it.

893
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 2: So there's a data point you guys have reference. I

894
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 2: want to ask you about.

895
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:04,800
Speaker 1: Quote.

896
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 2: We estimate that approximately twelve million enthusiast vehicles will transfer

897
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 2: to a new generation in the United States over the

898
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 2: next fifteen years, either via estate plans or inheritances. What

899
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 2: is this generational handoff from I guess we could call

900
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,839
Speaker 2: them boomer collectors to millennials and gen z. What does

901
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 2: this mean for the car collecting community.

902
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 4: Well, and I think we've all read that there's this huge,

903
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 4: you know, gigantic wealth transfer. Whatever the headline number is.

904
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 4: I've heard five trillion, I've heard one hundred trillion, you know,

905
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 4: seventy and you know, ar estimate just on that number

906
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 4: of you know, thirteen you know million vehicles, twelve thirteen

907
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 4: million vehicles, it's about five hundred and seventy billion dollars

908
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 4: worth of car value. Right now, most of those are

909
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 4: held in, you know, the hands of the generation of

910
00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 4: baby boomers.

911
00:44:58,440 --> 00:44:59,959
Speaker 3: I'm an I'm an older gen.

912
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 4: You know, Gen xers are starting to come into the

913
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 4: peak wealth, past peak earnings, in the peak wealth years,

914
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 4: buying a lot of cars. But fifteen years from now,

915
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 4: about a third of that whole market will will come

916
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:17,320
Speaker 4: loose back. And we're again, we're seeing this. Certainly, the

917
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 4: entry points are different than they were a generation ago,

918
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 4: where people are interested in sporty cars, trucks, younger kind

919
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 4: of you know, young timer cars as they refer to

920
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 4: them in Europe, and you know, we are, we're seeing

921
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 4: the data. We want to position ourselves well to see

922
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 4: that the transfers are kind of smooth, you know where

923
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 4: you're you know, you're kind of helping the next generation

924
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 4: get into these cars. We're actually doing things like teaching

925
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 4: manual driving classes because you know, if you talk about it,

926
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 4: it's not just an anti theft device or some slow

927
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,280
Speaker 4: hobby like brewing beer or whatever.

928
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 3: It is.

929
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 4: It's we need to teach the next generation how to

930
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 4: drive manuals. And it's it's you know, it's not that

931
00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 4: hard to do.

932
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 2: Not only is it not that hard it's just so

933
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 2: much more engaging. And not to be a stick snob,

934
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 2: but it really is a very different experience.

935
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 3: And yeah, I know the GT.

936
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 2: Three in the PDK is faster than the stick, but

937
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 2: how often am I taking my car on the track.

938
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 2: If that's once or twice a year, it's a lot.

939
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 2: What about the other three hundred and sixty days a year.

940
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 4: Well, even if you did, you and I neither of

941
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 4: us are good enough drivers to really make a difference.

942
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 2: Okay, one second different, whatever it is, it's it's it's

943
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 2: funny because I've done all the high performance driving classes

944
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,839
Speaker 2: and the reality is, if you're in a raush Mustang

945
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 2: up at Lime Rock, they said put into third, leave

946
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 2: it there for the whole track. So really driving the

947
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 2: stick isn't that much different. But if you're really doing

948
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 2: the competitive course, of course not. First of all, you

949
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 2: don't the car doesn't stop, the dual clutch is so fast,

950
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 2: the engine is always engaged, so you're not losing that

951
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 2: tenth of a second when the clutch is down and

952
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 2: you're losing power. But it still just feels so much

953
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 2: more engaging. Related question to the analog and the manual,

954
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 2: So you do a twenty twenty five Bull Market List.

955
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 2: You do one every year. The average model year of

956
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 2: featured cars used to be in the late eighties, early nineties.

957
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, it's two thousand and one. How

958
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:42,280
Speaker 2: did that happen? What's driving that shift in Bullmarket attractive?

959
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 1: Is it that pre.

960
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:50,919
Speaker 2: Screen, analogue manual feel but not quite as old as

961
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 2: the seventies eighties cars.

962
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 4: I think so, and I think it's but it's also

963
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,399
Speaker 4: it's a combination of what's driving demand. One is there's

964
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 4: absolutely a new cohort of people getting in making a

965
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 4: little bit of money buying these things at the top

966
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 4: end of the market. Though it's not just oh, the

967
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 4: new young tech guy who has who's going to be

968
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 4: in the open ai IPO and is going to make

969
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,399
Speaker 4: money and go buy a car. Older generation collectors are

970
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 4: also buying a lot of these new cars at auction.

971
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 3: And it's interesting. I've seen this twice in my career.

972
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 4: In the big muscle car era, which was two thousand

973
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 4: and five sixty seven, right before the Great Financial Crisis,

974
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,439
Speaker 4: everybody said, oh, it's a new generation of people buying

975
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 4: all these muscle cars and paying American muscle cars and

976
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 4: paying a lot of money for it, and that was true,

977
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 4: there were, but it was also the older generation of

978
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 4: collectors who liked earlier cars saying like, well, maybe those

979
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 4: are cool and I want one too, and by the way,

980
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 4: I have more money than you, so I'm going to

981
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 4: outbid you at auction and it's mine. Same thing right

982
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:52,879
Speaker 4: now in this sort of like say supercar segment, where

983
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 4: a lot of these cars from the nineties and two

984
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 4: thousands are we see these values going up.

985
00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 3: It is the new kind.

986
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 4: Of newer money, newer collector, but it's an older generation

987
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 4: of collectors saying well, I don't want to be left

988
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,439
Speaker 4: without a cool car. Or In fact, one guy told

989
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 4: me recently who bought a Bugatti Veyron and a couple

990
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 4: of newer cars, said well, I want to have a

991
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 4: car that my grandkids thinks is cool. And so I'm like,

992
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 4: got it, And that's not the Bugatti Veyron he loves,

993
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 4: he said, And I'm taking my kid my grandkids and

994
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 4: drives in the Bugatti Veyron, and so you know they

995
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 4: think it's cool.

996
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:27,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can, I can imagine.

997
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 2: All right, last question before I get to my favorites,

998
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 2: because I know, ye we're watching the time, so you

999
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 2: guys crunch so much number, so many data is what

1000
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:41,240
Speaker 2: do you think the casual observer of collector cars misses

1001
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 2: that your data is revealing.

1002
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I think those big headline cars are they

1003
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:51,839
Speaker 4: attract so much attention and people just think it's this,

1004
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 4: you know, crazy, very high end market, very very rarefied cars.

1005
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 4: And while that is true, those are the headline grabbing numbers,

1006
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 4: you know, the big story is that there's just a

1007
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 4: much much wider opportunity for people who want to play

1008
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 4: in this space. Every single price point, every little bit

1009
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,879
Speaker 4: of reliability and everything from pickup trucks. Like I said,

1010
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 4: if you live in that part of the world and

1011
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 4: that's something that's interesting to you, it's a very broad

1012
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 4: based hobby.

1013
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 3: It's also you know this is.

1014
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 4: This was a hobby that for many many years was

1015
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,879
Speaker 4: very much male oriented, mail driven, and I can see

1016
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 4: that in the data of who our insurance are and

1017
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 4: everything else. There's a really rising cohort of young women

1018
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:36,800
Speaker 4: and you know, women who want to have these cars

1019
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 4: and have it be part of their lives too. I

1020
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 4: think that's probably one of the most exciting trends that

1021
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 4: so very broad based.

1022
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 2: I've noticed a lot more women YouTubers talking about cars.

1023
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 4: And coming to cars and coffee with their cars and

1024
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,879
Speaker 4: and that sort of thing. So it's there's just there's

1025
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:54,719
Speaker 4: a lot more to it. It's much broader based. And

1026
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,760
Speaker 4: sure it's fun to see a multimillion dollar whatever sell someplace,

1027
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 4: but that's just not that's not the average reality. The

1028
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 4: average is actually much broader based and much more interesting.

1029
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 2: So I want to get to our favorite questions, but

1030
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 2: I got to throw some other stuff.

1031
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:11,840
Speaker 1: Let's just do a quick speed round.

1032
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 2: Someone comes up to you and says, hey, I'm interested

1033
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 2: in a fun weekend car. I don't have a lot

1034
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,240
Speaker 2: of money, but i'd like a convertible stick shift.

1035
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:21,280
Speaker 3: What do you use? Mustang?

1036
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: Mustang?

1037
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 3: Of course?

1038
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:24,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, other than you say of course, because I would

1039
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:25,879
Speaker 2: have said Miyada.

1040
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, well Mustang or Miyada. I mean so, And

1041
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 4: I always tell people like the oldest Miyada is now

1042
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 4: thirty three years old.

1043
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:34,319
Speaker 3: Something like that.

1044
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 4: Milled they made and they made over a million of

1045
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:38,240
Speaker 4: them for the US market.

1046
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 3: Super reliable.

1047
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:41,919
Speaker 4: If you want to go track driving, they're the great

1048
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:44,320
Speaker 4: track cars. If you want to just cruise around a weekend,

1049
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 4: they're inexpensive. Ten to fifteen thousand dollars. But same thing

1050
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:50,280
Speaker 4: with Mustang, you know, so just they're.

1051
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 1: A little more horsepower in the Mustang, a.

1052
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 3: Little bit more horsepower.

1053
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 4: They made a lot of they made a lot of convertibles,

1054
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:57,879
Speaker 4: their manuals, they're automatics if you don't feel comfortable with that,

1055
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 4: and very very affordable car and easy to get serviced,

1056
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 4: so that those would be my two recommendations.

1057
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 3: Of course.

1058
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 4: The most collected car, though still in the United States,

1059
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:10,720
Speaker 4: is a Corvette, and you know, they've been making them forever.

1060
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 4: There are lots of them, easy to service, and.

1061
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 2: Not that especially like a C six or C seven,

1062
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 2: not that expensive for a semi modern car.

1063
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:21,760
Speaker 3: They're amazing. They're amazing cars.

1064
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:27,800
Speaker 2: Someone says, I'm interested in something European, a little more interesting, sporty.

1065
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: Way do you send them?

1066
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 4: Well, I'm a poors person, so I would say, great,

1067
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 4: you want a nine to eleven, But let's start you

1068
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 4: in a box star, you know, let's start you in

1069
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 4: you know whatever, some more entry point point there. That

1070
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 4: younger generation that I talked about, the sort of three

1071
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 4: series BMW's super fun cars, lots of them built with

1072
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 4: a lot of quality to kind of have style they

1073
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:51,919
Speaker 4: look good.

1074
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 3: That's where people go.

1075
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, those of aged beautifully.

1076
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 2: Yes, the design of the early BMW's someone who's a

1077
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 2: little more has a little more scratch, a little older,

1078
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 2: says hey, I'm looking for something fun, but it's going

1079
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 2: to retain its value. When I'm willing to spend more

1080
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 2: than my kid buying a boxter.

1081
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 4: Well then it's still probably I mean, again my my

1082
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 4: bias here, I'd still probably say nine to eleven. But

1083
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 4: you're going to pick a year that was maybe slightly

1084
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 4: slightly off year, they're going to hold their value. Well,

1085
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:26,839
Speaker 4: I've actually I did a kind of market cap comparison

1086
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:30,280
Speaker 4: between every nine to eleven every built ever built versus

1087
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 4: every Ferrari ever built. Because people talk about Ferrari GTOs

1088
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 4: and all this sort of thing, which are worth tens

1089
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 4: of millions from I'm.

1090
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 2: Seventy five, and they're just spent. They were spectacular and

1091
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 2: they are I love them.

1092
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 4: But when you look at all the nine elevens that

1093
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 4: were built that were really undervalued for a long time,

1094
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:48,799
Speaker 4: you know you could buy I mean people used to

1095
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 4: give me a hard time because my sixty seven nine

1096
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 4: to eleven s when I spent over one hundred thousand

1097
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:57,879
Speaker 4: dollars having a professionally restored not that many years ago. Oh,

1098
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:00,879
Speaker 4: I mean after my you know, my very amateurish high

1099
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 4: school restoration. I spent one hundred thousand or whatever, a

1100
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 4: little bit more than that, and it was worth about

1101
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 4: seventy right, Well now it's worth about three hundred, no kids,

1102
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 4: you know, two fifty three hundred for a sixty seven

1103
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 4: s And people say, like, what's the car? What's your

1104
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 4: nine to eleven worth? I'm like, I don't care. It's

1105
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 4: my baby, and like, no one will ever. I and

1106
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:21,760
Speaker 4: my family will have that car forever.

1107
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 2: I have a bias against garage queens, but I'm curious

1108
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 2: as to your thoughts. People who buy cars put them

1109
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 2: in a garage never drive.

1110
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 3: I think those are really sad cars, right.

1111
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 1: They got to be great for business because to zero risk.

1112
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 4: The claims are low, but if they're sad cars, and

1113
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 4: especially by the way, no almost there's not a single

1114
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:44,280
Speaker 4: generation of cars that fares well when it sits around

1115
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 4: for a long period of time. Tires age, belts and

1116
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 4: hoses age, and some of those nineties and two thousands

1117
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:53,279
Speaker 4: cars they age particularly badly when they sit in the

1118
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 4: garage lots. Of maintenance required. So my view is if

1119
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 4: you got a car unless it's like six miles on

1120
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 4: it or fifty miles and you just think that's what

1121
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:03,840
Speaker 4: makes it cool. When there were a lot of customers

1122
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:05,759
Speaker 4: that we have that like that, my view is, go

1123
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 4: drive it. We sold at our Amelia sale one of

1124
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 4: the two record setting for ferrari Enzos. We sold it

1125
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 4: for fifteen million dollars. The car had I think two

1126
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 4: hundred and forty nine miles on it ferrari Enzo, and

1127
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 4: everybody's like, what do you think of that? I'm like,

1128
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 4: I would rather have the twenty thousand mile ferrari Enzo

1129
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 4: that I could go drive. I mean that just personally

1130
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 4: myself and I congratulated the buyer. Wonderful buy sir, but

1131
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 4: I would like to please drive it, Please drive it.

1132
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 2: Doug DeMuro said something really interesting about his career GT

1133
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,319
Speaker 2: when he was hunting for one, he found one with

1134
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 2: higher mileage because he said, I won't go through the

1135
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 2: process of I'm not going to drive this because.

1136
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 1: I'm appreciating it.

1137
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 2: It's starting out higher mileage, so you're more inclined, you're

1138
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 2: more inclined to put miles on it.

1139
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 4: I have one vintage car that has super low miles

1140
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:55,399
Speaker 4: on it. It's a Jaguar E Type nineteen sixty six.

1141
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 4: It had thirteen thousand miles on it when I bought it,

1142
00:55:57,760 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 4: and it has about fifteen thousand miles on it now.

1143
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 4: And it's just it bugs me because I feel like

1144
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 4: it should be driven, and then I worry that I'm

1145
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:07,319
Speaker 4: just putting a bunch of miles on it, and so

1146
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1147
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 3: I have the same quandary. So I just like the

1148
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 3: drive cars.

1149
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 2: So we're recording this right after Ferrari dropped their new

1150
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 2: loose electric appliance.

1151
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 3: I don't even want to chuck it.

1152
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:26,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's my Ferrari buddies are not big fans

1153
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:31,319
Speaker 2: of all the new versions that have been coming out.

1154
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 2: I still think the four fifty eight is really handsome.

1155
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 2: I love the eight twelve GTS. If I ever get

1156
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 2: that garage built those, one of those has my name

1157
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 2: on it. But the question for you is, when you

1158
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 2: see these new cars coming out and they're so technology

1159
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 2: heavy and so screen focused, how do you think these

1160
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:01,239
Speaker 2: will fare as collectibles twenty four sixty years from now?

1161
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:03,440
Speaker 4: Well, I can tell you I will never bet against Ferrari,

1162
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 4: not ever once, because I mean it is just forever

1163
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 4: since the day the first one was built, until you know,

1164
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:13,400
Speaker 4: it's just there's been something magical about that brand.

1165
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:14,839
Speaker 3: I love the.

1166
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 4: History of how the fact that like the second Enzo

1167
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:19,440
Speaker 4: Ferrari back in the day would show up with one,

1168
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 4: like everybody knew, well, that's the car to beat, period

1169
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 4: and even though sometimes you beat them, sometimes you didn't,

1170
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 4: they were just the car to beat. And I also

1171
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 4: remind people that cars, like companies like Ferrari, they've always

1172
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 4: had different lines of cars. You know, Ferrari always at

1173
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 4: race cars, but they also always had their like businessman's car,

1174
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 4: you know, a front engine, slightly less preform exactly exactly well.

1175
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 4: And the suv the pro songway like people said they'll

1176
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 4: never build an suv, and I remember I was talking

1177
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 4: to Bob Lutz and he just said watch he said,

1178
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 4: And I'm like, why do you think they will build

1179
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 4: an suv?

1180
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:56,520
Speaker 2: Bob?

1181
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 3: And he said, because they have to.

1182
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, s the Ki and the Macans

1183
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 2: save Porsche, all right. Ferrari had to be watching that.

1184
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 2: They had to be seeing the Uras sales, which is

1185
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 2: essentially a rebadged eight truck from Audi with a whole

1186
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 2: lot more horsepower.

1187
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 1: I mean, how did they not do that?

1188
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 3: They had to?

1189
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:21,960
Speaker 4: And I think I got it like this particular electric

1190
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 4: car is not necessarily had the most favorable initial reviews.

1191
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 4: But my view is I will never count for ARI

1192
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:29,720
Speaker 4: out and I think they probably are seeing some things

1193
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 4: in their data and with some certain customers who want this,

1194
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 4: and we'll.

1195
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 3: See, We'll certainly see.

1196
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 2: So let me jump to my favorite questions.

1197
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 1: I don't make you late for your trip back to

1198
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 1: the Midwest. Who are your early mentors who helped shape

1199
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 1: your career.

1200
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 4: My mentors went from kind of macro mentors to micro mentors,

1201
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 4: and so you know, in early days, of course, it

1202
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 4: was my parents. My parents had very different skill sets

1203
00:58:58,320 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 4: and I was so blessed that I got to work

1204
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 4: with both of them. There were some teachers kind of

1205
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 4: early on who were really extraordinary professors that both kind

1206
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 4: of I think triggered my love of learning. One gentleman,

1207
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 4: his name was Gary Hart, still living. I kind of

1208
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:17,920
Speaker 4: look after him in his old age. He just fundamentally

1209
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:21,040
Speaker 4: taught me how to be a good student. But what

1210
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 4: I found, though, is my mentors have become more micro

1211
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 4: mentors now like less than it's my whole life learning

1212
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 4: everything about something from this person is Now I find

1213
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 4: somebody who's really good at one thing, and I learned

1214
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 4: from them.

1215
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 3: I become friends with them.

1216
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 4: My current lead director on our public company board, Bill Swanson,

1217
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 4: he was the chairman and CEO of Atheon and wonderful

1218
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 4: man car collector and just brilliant at board governance and

1219
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:47,440
Speaker 4: how to think things through. And I'm just learning so

1220
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 4: much listening to him. And so he's a real mentor

1221
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 4: of mine. And so I think I'm very much of

1222
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:55,680
Speaker 4: that tribe of mentor approach. And I've had many and

1223
00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 4: I love mentoring myself.

1224
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 2: So hum really really interesting. What are some of your

1225
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:02,760
Speaker 2: favorite books? What are you reading right now?

1226
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:04,360
Speaker 3: So I'm an avid reader.

1227
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 4: I read thirty to fifty books a year typically, and

1228
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 4: a lot of biographies. In the last four or five years,

1229
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 4: I was definitely on a music biography stint, so a

1230
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 4: lot of rock and roll biographies, and then I went

1231
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 4: through give us a few names, oh, everything from the

1232
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 4: Keith Richards to Slash to you name it.

1233
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 3: I mean a lot.

1234
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 4: I've read a lot of biographies of you know, Springsteen, anybody.

1235
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 4: Then I did an interesting kind of parallel set, which

1236
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 4: was music producers, and that was fun. So everything from

1237
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 4: the there's a famous book on Warner Brothers music that

1238
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 4: was about called Sonic Boom, which was all of the

1239
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 4: music producers that did that, to Clive Davis, to those

1240
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 4: types of folks. For this year, though, my reading theme

1241
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:52,560
Speaker 4: is all about the founding of America. So I'm reading

1242
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:54,960
Speaker 4: a lot of kind of American founding stuff. I've just

1243
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 4: figured it's a good time to do that. So biographies

1244
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 4: so far this year on George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, there

1245
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 4: are a bunch of other books around kind of a

1246
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 4: lot of the founding fathers. I'm also wading through Wealth

1247
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 4: of Nations again, first time since college because it was

1248
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 4: also published in seventeen seventy six.

1249
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 3: I had for yeah, that's a beast. That's a beast.

1250
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,640
Speaker 4: But I would say one final piece is I was

1251
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 4: a sci fi fan forever, really, and I decided for

1252
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,800
Speaker 4: the last two years I started rereading a bunch of

1253
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 4: the great series that I read long time ago. So

1254
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 4: I just read the entire Dune series for the third

1255
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 4: time in my life, and that was fun. The foundation series,

1256
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:43,240
Speaker 4: Osamov Clark I think what I had forgotten is that

1257
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 4: almost all of those sci fi authors knew each other. Yes,

1258
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 4: they all kind of subscribed to some of the same magazines,

1259
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 4: and they get together for these little get togethers, and

1260
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 4: they were all kind of envisioning a future together and

1261
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 4: a lot of same themes, and especially right now around

1262
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 4: the challenges with AI are all embedded behind the Foundation

1263
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:05,200
Speaker 4: series and even in Dune that people if you kind

1264
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 4: of have to read into it, but it's fascinating stuff.

1265
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:10,040
Speaker 1: Larry Knivin, Philip K.

1266
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:14,240
Speaker 4: Dick those Yes, and you know, of course, you know

1267
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:15,920
Speaker 4: Hitchhiker's Guid the Galaxy.

1268
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 3: Well for a little bit of humor classic.

1269
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 1: Yes, what are you streaming these days?

1270
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 2: Give us your favorite either YouTube or Netflix or even podcasts.

1271
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:25,480
Speaker 3: What's keeping you? Yes?

1272
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 4: So, I mean my my workout companion is a lot

1273
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 4: of podcasts. So, and and they've kind of shifted, I

1274
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 4: guess a little bit. So while I was, you know,

1275
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 4: during COVID, it was a lot of just sort of

1276
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 4: habits and mindset stuff and this sort of thing. And

1277
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:41,200
Speaker 4: then when I discovered people like Scott Galloway his very

1278
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 4: humorous way to think about business, Tyler Cowen, I think

1279
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 4: is just absolutely brilliant, so great podcasts there. I've also

1280
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:54,439
Speaker 4: been impressed with that Audible has a number of their

1281
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 4: own kind of i'vegatten back to the musical biography things.

1282
01:02:57,320 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 4: They have a lot of these short format kind of

1283
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 4: pie cast kind of other kind of QUASEI musical performances

1284
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:08,560
Speaker 4: that are both kind of spoken word and music. And

1285
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:11,000
Speaker 4: it's actually called the Words and Music Series, and that's

1286
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 4: been really fun to listen to some of.

1287
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 2: Those words and music. I'm gonna have to check that out,

1288
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:18,640
Speaker 2: all right. Our final two questions, what sort of advice

1289
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 2: would you give a recent college grad interested in a

1290
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:26,920
Speaker 2: career in either automobiles or insurance or business.

1291
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:30,720
Speaker 4: I think I've just been I've been to two different

1292
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:35,160
Speaker 4: commencement ceremonies. One was my daughters and another was some friends,

1293
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:38,120
Speaker 4: and all of the commencement speakers right now are so

1294
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 4: focused on AI and trying to tell them it's going.

1295
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 3: To be okay.

1296
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 4: And not only do I think it's going to be okay,

1297
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:48,000
Speaker 4: as I was reminded them and people of my own career,

1298
01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 4: which is I work. My core business is what some

1299
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:55,080
Speaker 4: people would call as a relatively boring industry insurance. Now

1300
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:57,520
Speaker 4: you got to go into cool other stuff, not go

1301
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:00,160
Speaker 4: into some of those things. I think there are there's

1302
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:03,440
Speaker 4: so many opportunities in these industries that are established, they

1303
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:05,920
Speaker 4: are stable. They need really smart people who want to

1304
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 4: work hard and remake what they are is. Don't overlook

1305
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 4: things that you consider boring today, you know, look at

1306
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 4: some of those and think, who are the types of

1307
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 4: people that are going into these that you can make

1308
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 4: a great career. I never imagined I'd be doing what

1309
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:22,080
Speaker 4: I am today, and I think I have the coolest

1310
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:23,240
Speaker 4: job you can have.

1311
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 1: Really really interesting.

1312
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:28,160
Speaker 2: And our final question, what do you know about the

1313
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 2: world of automobiles or insurance today might have been useful

1314
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:35,960
Speaker 2: thirty forty years ago when you are first ramping up.

1315
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:41,280
Speaker 4: I think, you know, the the world has been predicting

1316
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 4: the demise of certain parts of the automobile industry for years,

1317
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 4: you know, and we saw it very recently with you know,

1318
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 4: this almost like Holy War. People view the difference between

1319
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 4: evs and internal combustion cars, and I'm very agnostic about

1320
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 4: all of that stuff, and it's very easy to kind

1321
01:04:58,640 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 4: of get sucked into those arguments.

1322
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 3: It's like, well, what do you think of EVS? I'm like,

1323
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:02,040
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1324
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:05,200
Speaker 4: There were EV's back in nineteen oh eight, there were

1325
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:08,560
Speaker 4: steam cars in nineteen ten, and now you know, we've

1326
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 4: been on internal combustion for a long time. I think

1327
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:13,920
Speaker 4: there will be more electric cars in the future, but

1328
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:16,280
Speaker 4: I also think they're going to be great internal combustion cars.

1329
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:19,560
Speaker 4: So I think I would just continue playing the big

1330
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:22,800
Speaker 4: long game and don't worry about some of the little

1331
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:25,680
Speaker 4: petty arguments that people can have that you know, it

1332
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:28,520
Speaker 4: makes for good maybe cocktail party talk, but I'd like

1333
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:29,480
Speaker 4: to see the big picture.

1334
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:32,560
Speaker 1: Mkhil, thank you for being so generous with your time.

1335
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 2: We have been speaking with Mkhil Haggerty, Chairman and CEO

1336
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:42,280
Speaker 2: of Haggarty Specialty Insurance. If you enjoy this conversation, well

1337
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:44,439
Speaker 2: be sure and check out any of the six hundred

1338
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:46,760
Speaker 2: and forty eight we've done previously.

1339
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:47,800
Speaker 1: You can find.

1340
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:53,080
Speaker 2: Those at YouTube, Apple, Spotify, Bloomberg, wherever you get your

1341
01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:56,160
Speaker 2: favorite podcasts. I would be remiss if I didn't thank

1342
01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 2: the crack team that helps us put these conversations together

1343
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 2: each week. Alexis Noriega is my video producer. Sean Russo

1344
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 2: is my researcher. Anna Luca is my podcast producer. I'm

1345
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 2: Barry Retoults. You've been listening to Masters in Business on

1346
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:17,200
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Radio