1
00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:07,640
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. So joining us to

2
00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:11,000
Speaker 1: discuss a state of crypto, especially under the Trump administration

3
00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:15,440
Speaker 1: is CFTC Commissioner Summer Mercinger. She is leaving the CFTC

4
00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:17,080
Speaker 1: at the end of the month and will become the

5
00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,599
Speaker 1: next CEO of the Blockchain Association. I also want to

6
00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,840
Speaker 1: bring in Bloomberg Crypto co host Tim Stenewick for this conversation. Summer,

7
00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:27,800
Speaker 1: let me ask you, just right off the bat, what

8
00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,760
Speaker 1: are your hopes for the stable coin bill? What does

9
00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,599
Speaker 1: it signify for the industry if and when it does

10
00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:34,800
Speaker 1: pass the entire Senate.

11
00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:41,800
Speaker 2: It signifies that this asset class is clearly here to stay,

12
00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:46,199
Speaker 2: that it's been embraced in the United States, and we

13
00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,240
Speaker 2: really are going to make the United States the forefront

14
00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:54,520
Speaker 2: of economic power that we could see from these tokens

15
00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:59,240
Speaker 2: and this asset class.

16
00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,720
Speaker 3: Summer serious, why specifically you are leaving the CFTC. I mean,

17
00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,880
Speaker 3: your term wasn't set to be over until twenty twenty eight.

18
00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,360
Speaker 3: You could have stayed for that long, and you said

19
00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:12,080
Speaker 3: it was in your statement last week that it was

20
00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,399
Speaker 3: heartbreaking to actually decide to leave the CFTC. So why leave?

21
00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:20,920
Speaker 2: That's a great question, and I did really struggle with

22
00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,840
Speaker 2: this decision. One thing I had to think about is

23
00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:29,720
Speaker 2: we have a very strong incoming chairman who has a

24
00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,160
Speaker 2: great voice for the crypto industry and will be a

25
00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:37,160
Speaker 2: real advocate for the industry and the agency at large.

26
00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:39,920
Speaker 2: I really do feel like I also have a good

27
00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,280
Speaker 2: voice that I can bring to this debate, that I

28
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,120
Speaker 2: can bring to this industry and help us get across

29
00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,240
Speaker 2: the finish line and a number of priorities, one being

30
00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,920
Speaker 2: courts the stable prints legislation, but also the market Structure bill.

31
00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:54,520
Speaker 2: And really I think the best place for me to

32
00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,920
Speaker 2: contribute to that is through this opportunity that I have

33
00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,560
Speaker 2: coming up with a blockchain Association. So while it was

34
00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:04,640
Speaker 2: very hard to make the decision and to leave my

35
00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:09,200
Speaker 2: post before I was done with my term, I really

36
00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,840
Speaker 2: do think as far as being able to contribute to

37
00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,920
Speaker 2: the process, I will have this great opportunity to do

38
00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:16,040
Speaker 2: so from the association.

39
00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:17,680
Speaker 3: Do you think you would have stayed if you were

40
00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,600
Speaker 3: picked by the President to be the acting Commissioner? Your

41
00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:25,120
Speaker 3: name was certainly one on the list, Yes.

42
00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,560
Speaker 2: And certainly that would have played into it. I think

43
00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,399
Speaker 2: timing wise, that would have played part of the role

44
00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:34,440
Speaker 2: as well. But you know, I think the President and

45
00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,200
Speaker 2: his team did a great job of picking very strong

46
00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,760
Speaker 2: leaders for this agency and for the other financial regulators

47
00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,520
Speaker 2: as well, and I fully support the decisions that they made,

48
00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,839
Speaker 2: and I am hoping that I can continue to work

49
00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,000
Speaker 2: closely with the current acting chair and the incoming chair

50
00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:50,679
Speaker 2: and my new role.

51
00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,520
Speaker 1: So, bigger picture, what rolled you envision for the CFTC

52
00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:56,680
Speaker 1: as a crypto reregulator now that you are moving on

53
00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,000
Speaker 1: to the industry to lead the Blockchain Association.

54
00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,840
Speaker 2: CFTC is uniquely positioned to be the right regulator for

55
00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,360
Speaker 2: the crypto spot market. We already have a lot of

56
00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:14,520
Speaker 2: regulatory oversight of trading that happens in the futures markets

57
00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,000
Speaker 2: on some of these assets. We are market regulators, so

58
00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:22,280
Speaker 2: we are uniquely qualified to really watch over the market

59
00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,800
Speaker 2: to make sure it's functioning, that it's liquid, that it's vibrant.

60
00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,799
Speaker 2: And we have an existing enforcement authority over a lot

61
00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,040
Speaker 2: of these areas already, so we are uniquely qualified. We're

62
00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,480
Speaker 2: also a global regulator. All of our markets are global.

63
00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,440
Speaker 2: These markets are global as well, and so that it

64
00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,160
Speaker 2: kind of puts us in this position of being ready

65
00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:43,680
Speaker 2: for that level of jurisdiction.

66
00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,280
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people who are watching the

67
00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,880
Speaker 3: industry closely are curious about sort of what's in the

68
00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,320
Speaker 3: pipeline on a regulatory front, and perhaps whether or not

69
00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,480
Speaker 3: you actually expect perpetual crypto futures to be approved in

70
00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:58,480
Speaker 3: the US in the near future. Is that something you

71
00:03:58,520 --> 00:03:59,120
Speaker 3: think could happen.

72
00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. In fact, I think those can come to

73
00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,520
Speaker 2: market now, and we're seeing some applications, and I believe

74
00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,240
Speaker 2: we'll have some of those products trading live very soon.

75
00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,480
Speaker 2: It will be great to get that trading back on

76
00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,120
Speaker 2: shore in the United States. I think it's unfortunate that

77
00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,440
Speaker 2: it has been driven off short for so long, and

78
00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:20,359
Speaker 2: the fact that we can have that here in the

79
00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,400
Speaker 2: US and under our regulatory framework is a really good

80
00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,279
Speaker 2: thing for these markets and will be really beneficial to

81
00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,000
Speaker 2: the industry broadly and to our economy here in the

82
00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:31,680
Speaker 2: United States.

83
00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,080
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people are curious, as an

84
00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:39,120
Speaker 3: outgoing regulator about political involvement at the CFTC and to

85
00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:44,719
Speaker 3: what extent this organization is actually free from political influence.

86
00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,000
Speaker 3: What would you say to somebody asking that.

87
00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:53,120
Speaker 2: We've been historically bipartisan. You know, part of that comes

88
00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,200
Speaker 2: from the fact that our over our oversight committee at

89
00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,800
Speaker 2: the House and Senate, or the House and Senet agriculture

90
00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,880
Speaker 2: committees which tend to be or bipartisan than other committees,

91
00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,840
Speaker 2: and the Congress, and you know, as just a case

92
00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,960
Speaker 2: in point, I think probably some of my biggest compromise

93
00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,880
Speaker 2: where I worked closely with probably with the most progressive

94
00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,479
Speaker 2: member of our commission commission, Goldsmith Romero. We work together

95
00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,960
Speaker 2: on a number of issues. We voted together quite a bit,

96
00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,720
Speaker 2: and it was kind of proof that we do work

97
00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:27,560
Speaker 2: in a bipartisan manner where you know, even though we

98
00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,960
Speaker 2: are from different parties, we come together to do what's

99
00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:33,800
Speaker 2: fast for the markets.

100
00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,400
Speaker 1: Nevertheless, come June, the CFTC will just have two of

101
00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,920
Speaker 1: five commissioners and that looks to a lot of people

102
00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,280
Speaker 1: like a leadership gap. But we also see a lot

103
00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,159
Speaker 1: of the independent agencies of which the CFTC is one

104
00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:50,400
Speaker 1: kind of being stripped of resources of people as Doge

105
00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,239
Speaker 1: and the White House overall try to fin the ranks

106
00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,919
Speaker 1: of federal employees. What kind of balance of power is

107
00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,480
Speaker 1: there in Washington if everything seems to run through the

108
00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,280
Speaker 1: White House. I guess it's another way of asking, could

109
00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:06,040
Speaker 1: we see a market disruption, a market event, you know,

110
00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,400
Speaker 1: undesirable events taking place in future's options. If there's less

111
00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:15,280
Speaker 1: folks at the CFTC, yeah, I don't have that concern.

112
00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,720
Speaker 2: We have a very strong staff. Our agency has always

113
00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,960
Speaker 2: done an amazing job of staying up on the markets

114
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:28,359
Speaker 2: and ensuring that they are free from manipulation and anything

115
00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,560
Speaker 2: that would be a kind of non economical impact on

116
00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:36,159
Speaker 2: market movement. And we've done that through many volatile times

117
00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,920
Speaker 2: with you know, sometimes two commissioners, sometimes a full slate

118
00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,960
Speaker 2: of commissioners, but the agency is very flexible and is

119
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,080
Speaker 2: able to adapt quickly and just overall on the kind

120
00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,200
Speaker 2: of power structure, I think, you know, the Trump administration

121
00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:53,359
Speaker 2: has their their way of viewing this administration, and you know,

122
00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,640
Speaker 2: I fully respect that, and I do think that the

123
00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,920
Speaker 2: independent agency will continue to do what it was put

124
00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,680
Speaker 2: place to do and oversee the derivative markets and make

125
00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:07,040
Speaker 2: sure that they continue to offer the utility that they

126
00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,120
Speaker 2: are supposed to offer, which is price discovery and hedging.

127
00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,520
Speaker 3: Commissioner Mercinger. We've got a story out now speaking of

128
00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,440
Speaker 3: the Trump administration that says that since the early days

129
00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,480
Speaker 3: of the reelection campaign, the president has essentially doubled his

130
00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:21,680
Speaker 3: net worth more than doubled it to five point four

131
00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,640
Speaker 3: billion dollars, more than five hundred million of doubt that,

132
00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:26,920
Speaker 3: according to our reporting, comes from sales of just one

133
00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,360
Speaker 3: of his crypto ventures, not to mention the Meme coins,

134
00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,240
Speaker 3: the Trump digital trading cards. There are critics out there

135
00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,760
Speaker 3: who say that he's too close and too involved with

136
00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,080
Speaker 3: the crypto industry. They're worried about pay to play. What

137
00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:39,640
Speaker 3: do you say.

138
00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,520
Speaker 2: I worry that this distracts from the arguments that we

139
00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:47,880
Speaker 2: need to be focused on right now. It's time for

140
00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,360
Speaker 2: the US to unlock this the economic power of the

141
00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,440
Speaker 2: crypto markets in the United States. It's time to bring

142
00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,640
Speaker 2: this trading activity on shore. In order to do that,

143
00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,480
Speaker 2: we do need things like the stable point Life legislation

144
00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:02,200
Speaker 2: that's moving through the Senate. We do need to have

145
00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,320
Speaker 2: a market structure bill, and that needs to be our

146
00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,560
Speaker 2: focus right now. So I think some of this just

147
00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,480
Speaker 2: becomes a distraction from what is really the most important,

148
00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:16,080
Speaker 2: you know, important thing here, which is providing a regulatory

149
00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,640
Speaker 2: framework so that we can have these markets on shore

150
00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,760
Speaker 2: and in a space where US retail customers can access

151
00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,040
Speaker 2: these markets in a safe space with the proper regulatory oversight.

152
00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,160
Speaker 3: Just to clarifyer, are you saying that the president's involvement

153
00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,400
Speaker 3: in the industry is a distraction or the critics are

154
00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:34,000
Speaker 3: a distraction.

155
00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,840
Speaker 2: I'm saying the critics are using it as a distraction

156
00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,080
Speaker 2: away from what you really needs to get done, and

157
00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:41,240
Speaker 2: I think that's unfortunate.

158
00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:43,800
Speaker 1: So is a meme coin dinner that the president is

159
00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:49,880
Speaker 1: hosting later on tonight a distraction? Excuse me attending, you.

160
00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,040
Speaker 2: Know, I haven't paid too much attention to this headline,

161
00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,319
Speaker 2: so I don't really know. I don't have a lot

162
00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,439
Speaker 2: to comment on it. I think for me as as

163
00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,679
Speaker 2: a regulator in my current role, you know, I'm more

164
00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:10,560
Speaker 2: focused on where the broader industry is and what you

165
00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:12,960
Speaker 2: know they're focused on. They're on the hill, they're working

166
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,760
Speaker 2: on the stable claim legislation, they're meeting with staff, they're

167
00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,320
Speaker 2: working on the framework for the market structure bill, and that,

168
00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:23,000
Speaker 2: to me is really where my focus and energy has

169
00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:24,600
Speaker 2: been throughout this debate.

170
00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,880
Speaker 1: Summermersing are the outgoing commissioner of the CFTC. Thank you

171
00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:30,720
Speaker 1: so much, And of course, Bloomberg's Tim stun A, a co

172
00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:32,880
Speaker 1: host of Bloomberg Crypto, really appreciate it,