WEBVTT - BrainStuff Classics: What Is (and Isn't) Terrorism?

0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:06.480
<v Speaker 1>Welcome to brain Stuff production of I Heart Radio. Hey

0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:09.480
<v Speaker 1>brain Stuff, Lauren boge Baum here with another classic episode

0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:12.400
<v Speaker 1>from our archives. This one has to do with the

0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:16.280
<v Speaker 1>definitions of terrorism and why it's become such a politically

0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:21.919
<v Speaker 1>loaded term. Hey brain Stuff, Lauren Vogelbaum Here. When the

0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:24.360
<v Speaker 1>news of another mass murder in the United States breaks,

0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:26.720
<v Speaker 1>people are forced to stumble their way through a series

0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:30.200
<v Speaker 1>of inescapable emotions. The psychological stages, much like the well

0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:38.320
<v Speaker 1>known stages of grief, go something like this, shock, revulsion, fear, curiosity, anxiety, anger, numbness,

0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:42.879
<v Speaker 1>and finally depression and perhaps acceptance. Somewhere along that arc

0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:47.600
<v Speaker 1>two comes the inevitable question was it terrorism? The question

0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:50.680
<v Speaker 1>is way more easily asked than answered. That's partially because

0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:53.480
<v Speaker 1>the legal definition of the word terrorism is as murky

0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:56.560
<v Speaker 1>as the motivations of the people who commit these drastic crimes.

0:00:57.040 --> 0:00:59.920
<v Speaker 1>We talked with Dr Jane Kramer, a professor of political

0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:02.800
<v Speaker 1>science at the University of Oregon. She told us every

0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:07.000
<v Speaker 1>terrorism textbook and every terrorism class begins with the definition problem.

0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:10.800
<v Speaker 1>Most people have to be satisfied with no definition. The

0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:14.160
<v Speaker 1>Miriam websterizing of the term terrorism has become so tricky

0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:17.399
<v Speaker 1>in fact, so fraught with politics and legal pitfalls that,

0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:20.319
<v Speaker 1>even after decades of trying, the United Nations can't come

0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.399
<v Speaker 1>up with an agreement on what constitutes terrorism or what

0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:27.240
<v Speaker 1>a terrorist is. That's not all that surprising, maybe, considering

0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:30.039
<v Speaker 1>that what one group might call a cowardly and despicable act,

0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:33.760
<v Speaker 1>another might term a patriotic or even holy duty. At

0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:35.880
<v Speaker 1>least within the borders of the United States, the legal

0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:39.520
<v Speaker 1>definition seems a little less troublesome. Several federal laws list

0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:42.000
<v Speaker 1>some variation of the terms, but the US Code of

0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:46.319
<v Speaker 1>Federal Regulations defines terrorism as the unlawful use of force

0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:50.320
<v Speaker 1>and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce

0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:54.320
<v Speaker 1>a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in

0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:59.520
<v Speaker 1>furtherance of political or social objectives. Still, even among Americans,

0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.800
<v Speaker 1>it's not that easy. When an avowed white supremacist killed

0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:05.520
<v Speaker 1>nine black members of a church in Charleston, South Carolina,

0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:10.040
<v Speaker 1>on June seventeenth, it was immediately considered by most as

0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:13.160
<v Speaker 1>a hate crime and a terroristic act, But then FBI

0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:16.200
<v Speaker 1>Director James called me wouldn't call it terrorism. In a

0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:19.560
<v Speaker 1>press conference three days after the shooting, he said terrorism

0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:22.160
<v Speaker 1>is violence done or threatened in order to try to

0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:24.720
<v Speaker 1>influence a public body or citizen, so it's more of

0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:27.880
<v Speaker 1>a political act. Again, based on what I know, I

0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:31.200
<v Speaker 1>don't see it as a political act. The unwillingness to

0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.760
<v Speaker 1>immediately flagged people like this perpetrator as terrorists, or even

0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:37.160
<v Speaker 1>the Las Vegas shooter who killed fifty eight and wounded

0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:41.440
<v Speaker 1>another five hundred plus on October one, can rankle those

0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:44.919
<v Speaker 1>who see the issue, often falling along racial and religious lines.

0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:48.400
<v Speaker 1>For example, when a native of Uzbekistan killed eight people

0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:52.079
<v Speaker 1>in New York City on October thirteen by driving a

0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.760
<v Speaker 1>rented track into pedestrians and cyclists, the FBI slapped federal

0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:59.639
<v Speaker 1>terrorism charges on him in less than two days. Officially

0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:03.320
<v Speaker 1>tagging acts like this as terrorism or not requires thought

0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:07.320
<v Speaker 1>towards the legal and moral implications. For example, no terrorism

0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:10.600
<v Speaker 1>charges were filed against Army major Nidal Hassan, who killed

0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:13.320
<v Speaker 1>thirteen people at Fort Hood, Texas, in two thousand nine,

0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:16.600
<v Speaker 1>even though Hassan told investigators that he shot the soldiers

0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:20.120
<v Speaker 1>because they were quote going against the Islamic Empire. According

0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:23.320
<v Speaker 1>to the New York Times, the reasoning the Army could

0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:26.320
<v Speaker 1>more easily and swiftly try him on charges of murder

0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:29.240
<v Speaker 1>and attempted murder without the hassle of proving he was

0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:32.880
<v Speaker 1>a terrorist. Hassan is now in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, awaiting

0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:35.920
<v Speaker 1>execution after being convicted of thirteen counts of murder and

0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:39.760
<v Speaker 1>thirty two counts of attempted murder without designated Hassan a terrorist,

0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:43.400
<v Speaker 1>though his victims can't get combat related benefits or received

0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:46.800
<v Speaker 1>Purple Hearts because the attack was considered workplace violence and

0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:50.960
<v Speaker 1>not combat. The labeling or specific not labeling of terrorists

0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:54.120
<v Speaker 1>isn't a particularly new phenomenon. More than thirty years ago,

0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:57.040
<v Speaker 1>then President Ronald Reagan pushed a foreign policy that included

0:03:57.080 --> 0:03:59.440
<v Speaker 1>financial backing for a group of so called freedom fighters

0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:02.960
<v Speaker 1>and Nicaragua the Contras. Some accused the United States of

0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:06.400
<v Speaker 1>state backed terrorism. Many other presidents and heads of state

0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:08.520
<v Speaker 1>all over the world have taken similar steps in the

0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:11.880
<v Speaker 1>name of national interest. The objection to calling someone a

0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:16.320
<v Speaker 1>terrorist lies largely within the word itself terrorism. Dr Kramer said,

0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:19.120
<v Speaker 1>it's a loaded term. It's meant to make somebody evil.

0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:22.599
<v Speaker 1>When everybody after this last incident notices that Trump wouldn't

0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:26.960
<v Speaker 1>use terrorism. After Charlottesville, where a white supremacist killed counterprotester

0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:30.880
<v Speaker 1>head their hair on August twelve, seventeen and immediately uses

0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:33.800
<v Speaker 1>it After New York it was like, Wow, we only

0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:36.800
<v Speaker 1>use it from Muslim or dark skinned people. That's why

0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:39.760
<v Speaker 1>this is coming up all the time. It's loaded. It's

0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.719
<v Speaker 1>probably not surprising that many politicians, not just the president,

0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:45.040
<v Speaker 1>used the concept of terror as a way to influence

0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:48.120
<v Speaker 1>minds and gain votes. The defeat of the terrorist Islamic

0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:50.239
<v Speaker 1>State was a big issue in the twenty sixteen election.

0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.480
<v Speaker 1>Immigration reform has also been tied to keeping terrorists from

0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:57.640
<v Speaker 1>our shores. Dr Cramer said that's why politicians use the word,

0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.640
<v Speaker 1>but academics try not to. They're trying to win supporters

0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:03.880
<v Speaker 1>and make sides. Academics are trying to analyze things. That's

0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:10.560
<v Speaker 1>the difference. Today's episode was written by John Donovan and

0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:13.760
<v Speaker 1>produced by Tristan McNeil and Tyler Clang. For more on

0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:16.200
<v Speaker 1>this and lots of other political topics, visit how Stuff

0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:18.760
<v Speaker 1>works dot com. Brain Stuff is a production of Our

0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:21.479
<v Speaker 1>Heart Radio. Or more podcasts in my heart Radio, visit

0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.320
<v Speaker 1>the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:25.320
<v Speaker 1>to your favorite shows.