1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to brain Stuff production of I Heart Radio. Hey 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: brain Stuff, Lauren boge Baum here with another classic episode 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: from our archives. This one has to do with the 4 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: definitions of terrorism and why it's become such a politically 5 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: loaded term. Hey brain Stuff, Lauren Vogelbaum Here. When the 6 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: news of another mass murder in the United States breaks, 7 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: people are forced to stumble their way through a series 8 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: of inescapable emotions. The psychological stages, much like the well 9 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: known stages of grief, go something like this, shock, revulsion, fear, curiosity, anxiety, anger, numbness, 10 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 1: and finally depression and perhaps acceptance. Somewhere along that arc 11 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: two comes the inevitable question was it terrorism? The question 12 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: is way more easily asked than answered. That's partially because 13 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,480 Speaker 1: the legal definition of the word terrorism is as murky 14 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: as the motivations of the people who commit these drastic crimes. 15 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: We talked with Dr Jane Kramer, a professor of political 16 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: science at the University of Oregon. She told us every 17 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: terrorism textbook and every terrorism class begins with the definition problem. 18 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: Most people have to be satisfied with no definition. The 19 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: Miriam websterizing of the term terrorism has become so tricky 20 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 1: in fact, so fraught with politics and legal pitfalls that, 21 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 1: even after decades of trying, the United Nations can't come 22 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 1: up with an agreement on what constitutes terrorism or what 23 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: a terrorist is. That's not all that surprising, maybe, considering 24 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: that what one group might call a cowardly and despicable act, 25 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 1: another might term a patriotic or even holy duty. At 26 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: least within the borders of the United States, the legal 27 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: definition seems a little less troublesome. Several federal laws list 28 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: some variation of the terms, but the US Code of 29 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: Federal Regulations defines terrorism as the unlawful use of force 30 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce 31 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in 32 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: furtherance of political or social objectives. Still, even among Americans, 33 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: it's not that easy. When an avowed white supremacist killed 34 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: nine black members of a church in Charleston, South Carolina, 35 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: on June seventeenth, it was immediately considered by most as 36 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: a hate crime and a terroristic act, But then FBI 37 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: Director James called me wouldn't call it terrorism. In a 38 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: press conference three days after the shooting, he said terrorism 39 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: is violence done or threatened in order to try to 40 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: influence a public body or citizen, so it's more of 41 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: a political act. Again, based on what I know, I 42 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: don't see it as a political act. The unwillingness to 43 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: immediately flagged people like this perpetrator as terrorists, or even 44 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: the Las Vegas shooter who killed fifty eight and wounded 45 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: another five hundred plus on October one, can rankle those 46 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: who see the issue, often falling along racial and religious lines. 47 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 1: For example, when a native of Uzbekistan killed eight people 48 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 1: in New York City on October thirteen by driving a 49 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: rented track into pedestrians and cyclists, the FBI slapped federal 50 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 1: terrorism charges on him in less than two days. Officially 51 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: tagging acts like this as terrorism or not requires thought 52 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: towards the legal and moral implications. For example, no terrorism 53 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: charges were filed against Army major Nidal Hassan, who killed 54 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: thirteen people at Fort Hood, Texas, in two thousand nine, 55 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: even though Hassan told investigators that he shot the soldiers 56 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: because they were quote going against the Islamic Empire. According 57 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: to the New York Times, the reasoning the Army could 58 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: more easily and swiftly try him on charges of murder 59 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: and attempted murder without the hassle of proving he was 60 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: a terrorist. Hassan is now in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, awaiting 61 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: execution after being convicted of thirteen counts of murder and 62 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: thirty two counts of attempted murder without designated Hassan a terrorist, 63 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: though his victims can't get combat related benefits or received 64 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: Purple Hearts because the attack was considered workplace violence and 65 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: not combat. The labeling or specific not labeling of terrorists 66 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: isn't a particularly new phenomenon. More than thirty years ago, 67 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: then President Ronald Reagan pushed a foreign policy that included 68 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: financial backing for a group of so called freedom fighters 69 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: and Nicaragua the Contras. Some accused the United States of 70 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: state backed terrorism. Many other presidents and heads of state 71 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: all over the world have taken similar steps in the 72 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: name of national interest. The objection to calling someone a 73 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: terrorist lies largely within the word itself terrorism. Dr Kramer said, 74 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: it's a loaded term. It's meant to make somebody evil. 75 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: When everybody after this last incident notices that Trump wouldn't 76 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: use terrorism. After Charlottesville, where a white supremacist killed counterprotester 77 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: head their hair on August twelve, seventeen and immediately uses 78 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: it After New York it was like, Wow, we only 79 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: use it from Muslim or dark skinned people. That's why 80 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: this is coming up all the time. It's loaded. It's 81 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: probably not surprising that many politicians, not just the president, 82 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 1: used the concept of terror as a way to influence 83 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: minds and gain votes. The defeat of the terrorist Islamic 84 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,239 Speaker 1: State was a big issue in the twenty sixteen election. 85 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 1: Immigration reform has also been tied to keeping terrorists from 86 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: our shores. Dr Cramer said that's why politicians use the word, 87 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: but academics try not to. They're trying to win supporters 88 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: and make sides. Academics are trying to analyze things. That's 89 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: the difference. Today's episode was written by John Donovan and 90 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: produced by Tristan McNeil and Tyler Clang. For more on 91 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: this and lots of other political topics, visit how Stuff 92 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: works dot com. Brain Stuff is a production of Our 93 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,479 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Or more podcasts in my heart Radio, visit 94 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 95 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.