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Speaker 1: Hi. I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.

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Speaker 2: We wanted to do something that highlighted our.

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Speaker 1: Relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are

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Speaker 1: a sibling railvalry, No, no, sibling.

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Speaker 2: You don't do that with your mouth, vely, that's good.

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Speaker 1: This is Oliver Hudson. Uh. And I'm hungry. Oliver Hudson

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Speaker 1: is hungry. This is what's happening right now. We have

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Speaker 1: a guest in the waiting room, and I'm starving. But

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Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna fight through it because this

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Speaker 1: is what champions do. They fight through the pain. They

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Speaker 1: persevere when things get tough. Any obstacle that comes in

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Speaker 1: their path gets annihilated because of the strength and fortitude

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Speaker 1: that the champion has to make everything great. And that's

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Speaker 1: why my hunger is going to be set aside. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I am going to ignore it and I am going

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Speaker 1: to give an incredible interview. But as you're listening to

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Speaker 1: this interview, know that Oliver Hudson is hungry as fuck. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So I want you, the audience, when you were listening

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Speaker 1: to me talk to doctor Judy Hoe that I'm starving,

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Speaker 1: but I'm very excited about Judy. Doctor Judy. She has

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Speaker 1: a new book out. It's called The New Rules of Attachment,

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Speaker 1: How to Heal your Relationships, repairing you're in a child,

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Speaker 1: and secure your life vision. It's about the attachment theory,

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Speaker 1: which I think a lot of you guys know about

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Speaker 1: a lot of people do. I kind of do. My

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Speaker 1: sister in law knows a ton about it. I think

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Speaker 1: there's four of them. I'm gonna have her explain all

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Speaker 1: this because you know, I don't know what the hell

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about. But warning, I will be talking about

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Speaker 1: the Hoffman Institute again because there's a lot of similarities here.

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Speaker 1: I know those who have listened to this podcast, you

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Speaker 1: know know that I talk about it all the time.

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Speaker 1: So just trigger warning. The Hoffman Institute will be brought

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Speaker 1: up again. I don't want anyone to sigh, oh god

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Speaker 1: again it's relevant. Okay, that being said, let's bring on

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Speaker 1: doctor Judyo.

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Speaker 2: How are you.

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Speaker 1: I'm good? What's going on? Oh? Not much?

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Speaker 2: Not much? Thanks so much for having me on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Super appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm very excited. I'm very excited to talk to you.

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Speaker 1: I know everyone says that on a podcast. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: but I actually am. And I'm gonna start this off

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Speaker 1: by saying that I know you know about sort of

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Speaker 1: what you've been doing with this what's called attachment not therapy,

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Speaker 1: attachment theory, attachment theory. Yeah, and I didn't know much,

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Speaker 1: but I read Okay, I'm sure you might have heard

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Speaker 1: of a place called the Hoffmann Institute, have you? Yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So I went, okay, and it was an incredible seven

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Speaker 1: days of my life. You know, it really was life

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Speaker 1: changing for me as far as understanding patterns, negative love

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Speaker 1: patterns that have come up and you know, we're there

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Speaker 1: since childhood and even starting from birth, getting to the

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Speaker 1: root of it, finding compassion, finding forgiveness because at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, it is generational, it is passed down.

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Speaker 1: And without getting into my whole experience, which everyone on

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Speaker 1: this fucking podcast has heard about, because I talked about

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Speaker 1: the Hoffman Institute done, it really reminded me of some

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Speaker 1: of the things that I experienced, you know, at at Hoffman.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, that's really interesting. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So explain it a little bit for those who

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Speaker 1: don't know what attachment theory is, and then I want

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Speaker 1: to briefly go through all four of them, and then

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Speaker 1: at the end, I want you. I want you to

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Speaker 1: analyze me the entire time we're talking. Okay, are a therapist.

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Speaker 1: I've been in therapy all my life. And then I

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Speaker 1: want you, through my stories and my whatever I'm talking,

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Speaker 1: I want you to tell me which one I am.

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Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh, I love it. Okay, great, that sounds good.

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Speaker 2: So first, just a quick primer on attachment theory. Okay, So,

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Speaker 2: attachment theory was initially developed by doctor John Bolby. It

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Speaker 2: was later expanded upon by one of his students, Mary Ainsworth,

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Speaker 2: And this was probably about sixty or seventy years ago

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Speaker 2: when they came out with these findings, and they were

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Speaker 2: studying babies and toddlers and seeing how they responded to

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Speaker 2: separating from their primary caregiver, being with their prime gary geargiver,

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Speaker 2: being in a totally new environment, and how they would fare,

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Speaker 2: would they play, would they engage people they didn't know,

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Speaker 2: And so they put all these different permutations on these kids,

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Speaker 2: who were probably anywhere from six months to about three

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Speaker 2: years old, and they found that even in this very

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Speaker 2: very early time, there were very distinct patterns that would

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Speaker 2: emerge based on the quality of the relationship and the

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Speaker 2: bond with a primary caregiver. Later on, this was expanded

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Speaker 2: to other primary caregivers. This doesn't have to be one person,

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Speaker 2: could be two, or three or four. And also they

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Speaker 2: study children who were older four years, five years, six years,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of times it was the same attachment

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Speaker 2: style that they had earlier in life. And essentially it's

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Speaker 2: a way that you express not only your ideas about yourself,

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Speaker 2: even at that young age, even through behaviors, but it

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Speaker 2: was also a way to express your beliefs and other

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Speaker 2: people and whether or not you think that people would

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Speaker 2: be there for you or you had to fend for yourself.

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Speaker 2: And obviously, as babies and toddlers, we can't bend for ourselves.

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Speaker 2: So you can imagine how dysregulating it could be for

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Speaker 2: a child if they feel like, hey, nobody in the

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Speaker 2: world really cares about me. And some of them developed

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Speaker 2: these ideas at a very very early age in life.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Wow. Okay, so you can never do it

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Speaker 1: right though, Are you a parent.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm a parent.

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Speaker 1: Ok.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you can never do it right.

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Speaker 1: You can never do it right, No such thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I always say this. I say it's not about it's

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Speaker 1: not about if you fuck up your kids. It's about

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Speaker 1: to what degree, you know what I mean? Like, uh huh.

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Speaker 1: I come from, you know, a broken home. My dad

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Speaker 1: left when I was five. Mom was single for a while,

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Speaker 1: she dated, did not like her dating. But then Kurt

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Speaker 1: came into my life and bay and raised me. He's

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Speaker 1: my father. We call him pah, but he's my father.

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Speaker 1: Things are really well good with my dad, telds maybe

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Speaker 1: eleven or twelve, and then it just went off the rails,

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Speaker 1: you know, and then he wasn't there and for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: it just didn't it didn't happen, and it was not

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Speaker 1: the best situation, you know, in the way that he

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Speaker 1: was handling shit. Now things are good. Strangely enough, we

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Speaker 1: have in the last five years sort of reconnected and

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm forty seven and he's, however old, he

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Speaker 1: is now in his seventies, so there's been a nice reconnection.

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Speaker 1: So I'm I have been in you know, therapy, and

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Speaker 1: I've learned a lot about myself. But how often do

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Speaker 1: you see when you are diagnosing or when you were

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Speaker 1: in your when you are in you know, in your

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Speaker 1: therapy sessions, someone who is on the floor, one which

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Speaker 1: I want to go through them. The fourth one is

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Speaker 1: almost like, hey, you're good, right, yeah, right, what's right?

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Speaker 1: What's the fourth one?

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Speaker 2: Called secure attached?

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Speaker 1: Secure attachment? That's so great? Everything is perfect, right you

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Speaker 1: should be yeah, exactly, not really right, but let's go through.

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Speaker 1: Let's go through the four because there's four of them, correct.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. Yeah, okay, so there's three insecure attachment

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Speaker 2: styles and one secure attachment style, so already the odds

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Speaker 2: are not in your favorite, Like, no, seventy five to

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Speaker 2: eighty percent of people are going to be insecurely attached, right,

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Speaker 2: so anyway, and those are only the ones who are

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Speaker 2: being honest. I think there's probably some people who believe

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Speaker 2: they're securely attached, and then you ask their partner, or

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Speaker 2: you ask their sibling, or you ask their family, they're like,

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Speaker 2: I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, before you even get into that, I mean, yeah again.

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Speaker 1: Doing this podcast, it's called sibling revelry, and my sister

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Speaker 1: can't be here right now. But the sibling dynamic is

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Speaker 1: so interesting, huge because the two siblings, say let's say

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Speaker 1: there's two they can be raised by the same exact

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Speaker 1: parents in the same exact way, but the perception is

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Speaker 1: totally different. And we've noticed that through all of the siblings.

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Speaker 1: One might think, oh, dad was great and the other

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Speaker 1: one was like, no, he was not. He was a

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Speaker 1: hard ass, and I'm fucked up because of him. Mm hmmm,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So exactly, it's interesting that

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Speaker 1: the theories. Yes, it's almost like so individual uh huh.

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Speaker 1: You know, because your parents could be like, no, I

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Speaker 1: did the same thing with your brother, and he has

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Speaker 1: secure attachment, but you all of a sudden have an

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Speaker 1: anxious attachment, Like how's that possible?

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent? Yeah. So you and I are both

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Speaker 2: the older siblings. I have a younger sister mm hmm,

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Speaker 2: and again grew up in the same home. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I don't think we were treated exactly the same. I

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Speaker 2: do think that there was some difference in the way

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Speaker 2: we were treated, but other than that, our family environment

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Speaker 2: was pretty much the same, and we were put into

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Speaker 2: the same classes. We did the same like music classes, right, like.

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Speaker 2: We were all afforded the same kinds of extra curriculars

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Speaker 2: and whatnot, inexposed to obviously the same people. My sister

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Speaker 2: and I are totally different, We're so so different, and

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Speaker 2: that caused a lot of grief when we were younger.

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Speaker 2: Now I think it's bonded us in a way. But

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Speaker 2: we talked about our own attachment styles and how that's

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Speaker 2: so weird that we grew up with essentially the same

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Speaker 2: ingredients and then we're just completely apart, you know, just

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Speaker 2: totally apart. So, yeah, I hear what you're saying.

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Speaker 1: That's that's so crazy. Yeah, it's like the same ingredients,

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Speaker 1: but the cakes are completely different when they come out

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Speaker 1: of the oven.

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Speaker 2: A hundred percent. I know. Yeah, if you talk to

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Speaker 2: my sister, I mean, she went through a phase where

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Speaker 2: she was like involved in gangs and junior high and

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Speaker 2: you know, I mean she got kicked out of schools,

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Speaker 2: like she was kind of quote unquote the black sheep

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Speaker 2: of the family. Now she's a professional poker player. She

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Speaker 2: obviously put that to good.

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Speaker 1: Really, yes, who what's her name?

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Speaker 2: Her name's Maria Hoe. So she's been in the industry

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Speaker 2: for a while, like almost twenty years in professional.

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Speaker 1: Post Because I played, I was a crazy poker player.

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Speaker 1: I mean I play the World Series of Poker. If

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Speaker 1: you google Oliver Hudson World Series of Poker in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and five, I do you know, do you Because

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Speaker 1: your sister plays. Do you know poker? Menimi?

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Speaker 2: And I know poker pretty well because of my sister.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So the way it works is there's you know, however,

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Speaker 1: many people. There was a featured table that they put

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Speaker 1: onto ESPN and it was me and Dan Granu, a

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Speaker 1: guy named Sam Farha and Bobbo and I was at

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Speaker 1: the fucking feature table on ESPN.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's crazy.

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Speaker 1: Firsthand firsthand, and I'll let you watch it. I want

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Speaker 1: to explain the whole hand because people will like get bored. Firsthand,

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Speaker 1: I go broke, everything goes in the middle on the

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Speaker 1: first hand and I am out on a horrible, horrible,

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Speaker 1: horrible beat where if you watch it or your sister

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Speaker 1: will I guarantee your sister knows this. I guarantee she

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Speaker 1: does because it's one of the most horrible beats that

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Speaker 1: has been around.

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Speaker 2: Tell me, tell me the hand you had.

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Speaker 1: I had pockets, Sammy far had he had ace ten. Okay, oh,

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Speaker 1: come on, yeah, the flop comes ace ten. Oh no,

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Speaker 1: that's basically all you need to hear now, And the

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Speaker 1: announcers are like, oh my god, it's the first hand. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the only thing that could have slowed me down

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Speaker 1: was a queen came on the turn, and so I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: he could have had ace queen because he raised me probly,

218
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Speaker 1: he raised pre flop pre flop. Yeah, of course, but

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Speaker 1: he's a very loose player. Anyway. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: get all the weeds because people are talking about but

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Speaker 1: but I could have slowed down on the turn, but

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Speaker 1: there was no way. My money wasn't going all in

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Speaker 1: the middle, you know at some point in that hand, right,

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Speaker 1: And then I played in a bunch of WPT events,

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Speaker 1: like I had a huge poker room. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: was obsessed. Oh my gosh, I love that sidetracked No,

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Speaker 1: but no, but no, but that was.

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Speaker 2: That was actually very very interesting because I'm like, of course,

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Speaker 2: of course you were going to go in with everything

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Speaker 2: you had, because you're like, I got a full house, baby,

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Speaker 2: Like what ridiculous? Yeah, no, oh no, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: that is like the worst thing, the worst. And of

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Speaker 2: course obviously pre flop you had the odds in your favor,

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Speaker 2: so yeah, everything was going right, you know, so wrong,

235
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Speaker 2: so wrong anyway. Yeah, So my sister, So, my sister

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Speaker 2: was I think it was two thousand and seven maybe

237
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Speaker 2: where she made it to she was like the last

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Speaker 2: woman standing in the World Series of Poker's main event.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, she's been doing that for a long time.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, we just I mean, we went totally different

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Speaker 2: ways in terms of our careers. But then again in poker,

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Speaker 2: she used the psychology, so I was like, I actually

243
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Speaker 2: think we are probably much more like than we would

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Speaker 2: like to think. But we definitely developed different ideas about

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Speaker 2: people in relationships from a very young age. I noticed

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Speaker 2: the difference right away, and those differences have still kind

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Speaker 2: of bore out as we grew all into Yeah.

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Speaker 1: All right, so let's go. Let's let's go down the list,

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Speaker 1: let's go into the flour let's do it.

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Speaker 2: So the first insecure attachment style is anxious attachment. I

251
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Speaker 2: think that most people feel familiar with this because people

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Speaker 2: talk about it like kind of just like a very

253
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Speaker 2: regular topic, like, oh, I'm kind of anxious in this relationship,

254
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Speaker 2: but I'm anxious attachment, et cetera. You see it a

255
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Speaker 2: lot on social media too. You know. The prototypical anxiously

256
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Speaker 2: attached person is that they're a people pleaser, and they're

257
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Speaker 2: more prone to codependency because their self esteem rests on

258
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Speaker 2: what other people think about them. And this type of

259
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Speaker 2: attachment style can come up when you've had parents who

260
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Speaker 2: maybe were inconsistent in ways or made you feel like

261
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Speaker 2: you weren't sure when you were going to get affection

262
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Speaker 2: from them. And of course this is not to blame parents'

263
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Speaker 2: parents are dealing with their own shit all the time. Right,

264
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Speaker 2: Like we talked about, there's no way that you're going

265
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Speaker 2: to be a perfect parent. So in this pass down

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Speaker 2: generationally what they experience from their parents. So ninety nine

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Speaker 2: percent of parents out there are not blatant abusers that

268
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Speaker 2: are trying to screw up their children. It's like they're

269
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Speaker 2: trying their best, but they got their own stuff right. So,

270
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,880
Speaker 2: but either way, anxiously attached people when there were babies,

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Speaker 2: when toddlers, they realize, oh, I'm not exactly sure when

272
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Speaker 2: my mom or dad are going to be around for me.

273
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Speaker 2: So then they start to grow into this idea that

274
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Speaker 2: they have to always be checking on and be validated

275
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Speaker 2: by people or also not sure where they're standing is

276
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Speaker 2: so they have a harder time doing individualistic things. They

277
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Speaker 2: kind of feel like they have to be in some

278
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Speaker 2: kind of relationship or have people around them all the time,

279
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Speaker 2: and that leads to codependency behaviors, because hey, if you

280
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Speaker 2: support somebody and help them, then maybe when you need help,

281
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Speaker 2: they'll be there for you. Right, But over time you

282
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Speaker 2: start to believe that maybe you're not as important as

283
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Speaker 2: other people. So that's the anxious attachment stack coy. Okay,

284
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Speaker 2: they avoidantly attached. I think a lot of people see

285
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Speaker 2: that almost like as the opposite spectrum. So this is

286
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Speaker 2: the person who's more of a lone wolf. They pride

287
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Speaker 2: themselves in being a lone wolf. They're pretty driven. Usually

288
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,840
Speaker 2: they're very ambitious. They might identify themselves as a workaholic

289
00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,480
Speaker 2: and they wear that like a badge of honor, and really,

290
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Speaker 2: deep down it's because they don't really trust other people

291
00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:01,800
Speaker 2: to take care of them, so they feel like they

292
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,080
Speaker 2: have to do everything on their own. And sometimes this

293
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:09,440
Speaker 2: comes from parents who maybe showed their most affections with

294
00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,720
Speaker 2: them when they were achieving something or doing something that

295
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,640
Speaker 2: felt like a goal. Sometimes it would be that the

296
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:18,840
Speaker 2: parents maybe shut them down when they were trying to

297
00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,760
Speaker 2: express emotions, maybe in a way to try to help

298
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Speaker 2: them cope, but it made them feel invalidated for talking

299
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Speaker 2: about their feelings, like well, you shouldn't think about that,

300
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:28,960
Speaker 2: or well, why are we talking about this, Let's stop

301
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,080
Speaker 2: talking about it. Or maybe they seemed to overwhelm when

302
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,400
Speaker 2: they express their emotions. So anyway, as they grow older,

303
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,600
Speaker 2: they start to not want to talk about their feelings also,

304
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,280
Speaker 2: so they get a little bit uncomfortable with intimacy. It

305
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,200
Speaker 2: really has to be at their pace, and when they

306
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,880
Speaker 2: are feeling stressed or troubled, they just they just go away,

307
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,560
Speaker 2: like they don't tell anybody. They just kind of hide away,

308
00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,000
Speaker 2: and so nobody really knows what's wrong with them because

309
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,080
Speaker 2: they don't show that to the world. But obviously over

310
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Speaker 2: time that can cause distress in a different way.

311
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Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's so. That one is crazy because

312
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,600
Speaker 1: the minute you sort of talking about it, this one

313
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:06,200
Speaker 1: friend popped into my mind and then you literally ran

314
00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,719
Speaker 1: the list like who he is? And it's crazy. I mean,

315
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,240
Speaker 1: it was like to a T to a T. I

316
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,520
Speaker 1: keep going, this is so interesting, It's crazy.

317
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Speaker 2: Okay, Okay. Then there's disorganized attachment, which I think is

318
00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,040
Speaker 2: the most misunderstood of the three. Insecure attached. When you

319
00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,320
Speaker 2: look at social media or look at online articles, they

320
00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,320
Speaker 2: seem to think that it's a combination of the anxious

321
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,600
Speaker 2: and the avoidant I think that there are people who

322
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,040
Speaker 2: are combination types. So I actually think that if that's

323
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,480
Speaker 2: how you feel, you're not disorganized. You're probably just running

324
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,280
Speaker 2: the spectrum of anxious and avoidant. And sometimes it happens

325
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,600
Speaker 2: in different situations or with different people, But I think

326
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,720
Speaker 2: the hallmark sign of the disorganized attached person is that

327
00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:44,920
Speaker 2: they constantly feel like they're in fight or flight. So

328
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,000
Speaker 2: fight or flight is an awesome adaptive response, but it's

329
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,240
Speaker 2: only meant to be used sparingly. It's not meant to

330
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,359
Speaker 2: be that you're in chronic stress all the time, right.

331
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,040
Speaker 2: And the problem with somebody who is disorganized attached is

332
00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,199
Speaker 2: in their childhood there might have been a lot of chaos.

333
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,440
Speaker 2: There may have been even for abuse or major traumas,

334
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,920
Speaker 2: and so the person feels like, why can never be safe?

335
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,080
Speaker 2: I always have to be watching my back? And so

336
00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,840
Speaker 2: their entire life is like that. It's like there's always

337
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:12,680
Speaker 2: a suspicion that something is going to go wrong, the

338
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,000
Speaker 2: other foot's going to drop. If things are too calm,

339
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,800
Speaker 2: they inevitably will draw up chaos somewhere because they're more

340
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,040
Speaker 2: comfortable with that and it's familiar to them. They're a

341
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:26,200
Speaker 2: little hot and cold in relationships because they go between, hey,

342
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:28,520
Speaker 2: I can maybe settle in and really relax around this

343
00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,199
Speaker 2: person too. Wait, no, like there's something bad that's going

344
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,760
Speaker 2: to happen, and I had better just preempt it by

345
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,879
Speaker 2: creating the problem myself first. And again, a lot of

346
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,080
Speaker 2: this is not in a conscious way. So I think

347
00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:44,919
Speaker 2: that oftentimes their own beliefs is that people can't be trusted,

348
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,920
Speaker 2: but they also don't particularly love themselves, so there's kind

349
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,560
Speaker 2: of like a low self concept. But also when they

350
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,239
Speaker 2: look at other people, they think that other people suck too,

351
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:55,920
Speaker 2: So like it's a kind of a terrible mind state

352
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,640
Speaker 2: to live in, right, because you're kind of probably yeah,

353
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,200
Speaker 2: more pessimistic, probably than the average person. So that's the

354
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,199
Speaker 2: disorganized type, okay, Yeah, and.

355
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:09,480
Speaker 1: Then the one the golden the golden child, the golden child, which,

356
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,080
Speaker 1: of course, as we talked about, is the minority.

357
00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,439
Speaker 2: But I think the securely attached person is that generally

358
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,080
Speaker 2: they had parents who were pretty present, who didn't you

359
00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:21,600
Speaker 2: tell them to shy away from their negative feelings, but

360
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:26,040
Speaker 2: also did not define them specifically by their achievement. It's

361
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:27,960
Speaker 2: kind of like, we value you no matter what, even

362
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:29,720
Speaker 2: if you make a mistake. We might be upset about

363
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,919
Speaker 2: the mistake, but we love you. So generally, they're pretty

364
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:38,680
Speaker 2: consistent in their parenting. They're generally available, especially emotionally, And

365
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,200
Speaker 2: so then these adults grow up and it's not that

366
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,440
Speaker 2: everything is perfect. That's the ridiculous saying. Nobody's that way.

367
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:46,479
Speaker 2: But it's more that they just have a little bit

368
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,720
Speaker 2: more self confidence than the other types. They generally believe

369
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 2: good things should happen to them, that they deserve it,

370
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,400
Speaker 2: and when they are pressed in a stressful situation, they're

371
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,600
Speaker 2: just a little bit more resilient than the other types.

372
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,480
Speaker 2: So they're just more flexible, so they can be independent,

373
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:03,520
Speaker 2: but they can also rely on other people and not

374
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:05,160
Speaker 2: feel like, well, what is this person going to think

375
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:06,919
Speaker 2: about me? Are they going to see me as a burden?

376
00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:09,639
Speaker 2: You know, they just don't get caught up in thoughts

377
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,080
Speaker 2: like that as much. But a securely attached person obviously

378
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,560
Speaker 2: they have their blind spots too. It's just that overall

379
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,280
Speaker 2: they're a little bit better equipped to deal with life,

380
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,680
Speaker 2: and their self esteem tends to be stronger even when

381
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,480
Speaker 2: there are toxic people around them. Even when they come

382
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,879
Speaker 2: across difficult situations, they're able to be more stable in

383
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:30,480
Speaker 2: terms of how they feel about themselves.

384
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,800
Speaker 1: A couple of things. So interesting. Number one is, first

385
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:37,920
Speaker 1: of all, you kind of hit on it, m hmm,

386
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 1: that you can have a combination, right are you? Or

387
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 1: are you always leaning more towards one or can you

388
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,399
Speaker 1: be a combination because now you're dealing with sort of

389
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,159
Speaker 1: how you grew up, so you can't. I mean, I

390
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 1: guess you can, but to grow up along that spectrum

391
00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,239
Speaker 1: of the four seems difficult. I mean, they'll be all

392
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 1: over the place, right right, But there are combos I assume.

393
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think the combos come from a couple places.

394
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 2: One is, if you had a different kind of relationship

395
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 2: with one primary caregiver versus another, you could develop like

396
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,199
Speaker 2: a combination type of sort. So you could be, for example,

397
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 2: mostly securely attached because your dad provided that kind of

398
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,680
Speaker 2: basis for you, but your mom was the one that

399
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 2: was kind of inconsistent. So there's a part of you

400
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,359
Speaker 2: that's anxious, but that doesn't really come out except when

401
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:32,160
Speaker 2: you're in a romantic relationship. So like at work, you're

402
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 2: pretty much secure. With friendships, you're pretty much secure, But

403
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,240
Speaker 2: then when it comes to dating, like that's where that

404
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 2: anxious attachment kind of shows up. So that's that's the

405
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 2: most common way that I see the combinations manifesting is

406
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 2: that it's not all across their life at all times.

407
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,800
Speaker 2: It's more like one major area of life they seem

408
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,560
Speaker 2: to be more insecure, and then maybe the other areas there.

409
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean yeah, personally right, like from a social place,

410
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,000
Speaker 1: from walking on the earth and being around people. I'm

411
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 1: very confident, you know what I mean. My self esteem

412
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 1: is through the roof. I know that I'm a likable person.

413
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 1: I know that I can have good conversation. You know,

414
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,920
Speaker 1: I can be charming. I can do all of these things.

415
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:20,400
Speaker 1: My lack of self esteem comes from work interestingly enough,

416
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 1: not thinking or feeling that I'm good enough, you know,

417
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 1: in my occupation, because my sister's huge and my parents

418
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 1: are huge, and my by the way, my career has

419
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 1: been incredible. I've made money and everything's good, but I

420
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 1: just don't feel good enough. It's like, oh, everyone thinks

421
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 1: I'm bad. I'm probably I'm the worst factor here, you know.

422
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 1: Or The other thing too, for me is almost it

423
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 1: gets directing is something that I'm passionate about producing, which

424
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 1: is what I do as well. There are talents that

425
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 1: I have that I look at and it's just so

426
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 1: overwhelming to even try to get there that I don't

427
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 1: even try, you know what I mean. And the minute

428
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 1: that I sense any failure, I'm just or any negative thing,

429
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 1: I might forget it. You know. Yeah, if my work

430
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,879
Speaker 1: ethic was better, I would be very, I mean so

431
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 1: much far along on a personal level of where I

432
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 1: would want to be, you know, But I just sort

433
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 1: of cut it off. So I have a little bit

434
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 1: of both of that, you know what I mean?

435
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,120
Speaker 2: Right right? You get so reinforced by those areas where

436
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 2: you are one hundred percent certain at least in your

437
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 2: own self perception of your competence in them, that it's

438
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 2: so easy for you. And there's so many people who

439
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 2: they would be finding those situations were difficult, like talking

440
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 2: to people they don't know, like, you know, feeling like

441
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 2: people accept them and like them, et cetera. But that

442
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 2: whole idea of being held back in certain ways in

443
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 2: your career, and like you said, you've had a phenomenal career.

444
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 2: You are having a phenomenal career. However, there's always that

445
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 2: thought of, oh, but there was a couple of missed

446
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 2: opportunities like if I had just pushed harder and went

447
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 2: for like where could I be now? And it makes

448
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 2: it makes so much sense. But also that is like

449
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 2: the true mark of a perfectionist too, Like anybody else

450
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 2: who looks at it'll be like, I don't really know

451
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 2: what you're talking about, but it's really the most important

452
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 2: thing is how you're feeling about it, right, It's like

453
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 2: that's your interpretation and that's your perception, and it does

454
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,919
Speaker 2: affect how you think, and it does affect maybe future

455
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 2: things that might kind of provoke those same feelings, and

456
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 2: you're like, oh no, like I'm finding myself back in

457
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 2: that pattern again of like not being sure and like

458
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 2: maybe I should have just done it, like why didn't

459
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 2: I know?

460
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, or then have the perseverance to push through. Yeah,

461
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: you know, it's like just fucking do it, yeah, you know,

462
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 1: because perfectionism is definitely, uh strangely a part of this

463
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: equation for me, but you would no one would ever

464
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: look at me and say, oh, Oliver is a perfectionist

465
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 1: because I'm a very free spirited person who's kind of

466
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,040
Speaker 1: all over the place, you know what I mean. But

467
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: there is a piece of me that is perfectionist. Where

468
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 1: if it doesn't, if it's not perfect, like fuck it,

469
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: I can't.

470
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 2: Do it right right well totally. And that's why I

471
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,160
Speaker 2: think sometimes people say, well, why why didn't this person

472
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 2: do this or why not? And it's like, sometimes what

473
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 2: holds us back or what leads us to procrastinate or

474
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 2: don't hit something as hard as we could is the

475
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 2: fear of but if it doesn't come out exactly the

476
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 2: way I want, whether that's your perfection or it's like

477
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 2: your own vision of what this is supposed to be,

478
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 2: like it's you just don't do it so that you

479
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 2: don't have to confront the feeling of but I didn't

480
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 2: do it as well as.

481
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 1: I want right exactly. Yeah. I was always like even

482
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: with when I started auditioning, I wouldn't put the time

483
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: in and I would you know, not do well and

484
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: not get jobs, and I would be hung over and

485
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: not take it seriously. And it was there was a

486
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: lot of realization in that if I try really really

487
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 1: hard and fail, I'm falling from a much higher place.

488
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 1: And if I don't, and I'm like, well, whatever, I

489
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 1: didn't get it. I didn't. I was fucking I didn't try.

490
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 2: Exactly, you know, there's already made excuse if it doesn't work, right, Yes,

491
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,199
Speaker 2: it's much scarier when you have to like put your

492
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 2: whole effort through and it still doesn't work.

493
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: You're like, well now what yeah, yeah, now do you

494
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: from a psychological place? You know, and we don't have

495
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: to go through we don't have to have a session

496
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: right now. But how do you break through those things?

497
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously there's tools, there's ways. You know, how

498
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: deep seated is that is that? Does that come from

499
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: trauma in your life? Does that come from your dad

500
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 1: not being there? Does that you know? And then how

501
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: do you move to a place where it's it's no

502
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: longer just sort of trying to walk in molasses? Yeah?

503
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 2: No, that's a great metaphor for the feeling that that

504
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 2: might give you, especially when you see that it might

505
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 2: be a cycle at certain points or with certain situations.

506
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 2: And yeah, sometimes it comes from trauma. Sometimes it comes

507
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 2: from early messages of you know, how you're not good enough.

508
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 2: That could have either been directly given to you by

509
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 2: an important adult in your life, or it could be

510
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 2: your own interpretation to what happened. So like, something that

511
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,719
Speaker 2: I see oftentimes is again, as children, we're all self centered.

512
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 2: And I don't mean this in a bad way. It's like,

513
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 2: we just think that we're the center of our universe.

514
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 2: So anything good or bad that happens, you think that

515
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 2: you played a role, right, And so when something bad

516
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 2: happens in your childhood, there's oftentimes this feeling of maybe

517
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 2: I did something or I didn't do something and it

518
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 2: was my fault, and that over time can grow into

519
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 2: this essentially, I will say, a vulnerable spot where there's insecurity,

520
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 2: and oftentimes we don't do things that will actually essentially

521
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 2: get us out of those thought patterns because your brain

522
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 2: actually still likes familiarity and anytime something happens that might

523
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 2: shake that. It's amazing how your brain is so biased

524
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 2: and will just like only incorporate the parts of that

525
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 2: situation that still makes sense to you with your existing ideas,

526
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 2: as opposed to being like, oh wait, does this mean

527
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 2: I have to revisit my whole idea about myself and

528
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 2: the world. Like we don't do that very easily, you know,

529
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 2: So I think that that's part of it. It's like,

530
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 2: that's why childhood is so important, you know, because it

531
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 2: affects us today. You know, I don't think it's helpful

532
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 2: to dwell on your childhood and all the bad things

533
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 2: that happen. Just for the sake of doing that. I

534
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 2: think that it's important to reflect on it because it

535
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 2: will affect your ability to have joy now or like

536
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 2: to do the things that you want.

537
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you talk about your inner child, you know, yeah,

538
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: sort of and again Hoffman, you deal with all that shit.

539
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I love that that's so powerful, right in

540
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 2: child work.

541
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

542
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 2: I used to say that that was BS, but now

543
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 2: I realize that it's powerful too. You know.

544
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: I had this therapy session, so I in therapy, you know,

545
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: since I was about twenty twenty one. I'm forty seven.

546
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: Eventually I found CBT COB behavial therapy, which it's vibe

547
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: with me so much more than the other therapy I

548
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 1: was doing. Yeah anyway, but this my therapist at the time,

549
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: he's like, all right, Oliver, we're gonna do an exercise.

550
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh god, Jan his name was Jan,

551
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: And what are we doing today? Man?

552
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 2: I have homework time.

553
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, He's like, you're gonna You're gonna talk to your inner.

554
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 2: Oh my god? Did you laugh at him?

555
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: Oh God? I was like, what I was I gonna

556
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: want to do this, He's like, just do it. And

557
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: I had to sit on the couch and as me

558
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,479
Speaker 1: as the adult and be like hi, Oliver, like how

559
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: are you, then moved to the other side of the

560
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: couch and be like yeah, I'm okay, and then and talking.

561
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: It was fucking horrendous.

562
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, the empty chair exercise.

563
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: To commit to those things like yeah, you have to

564
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: get over yourself. I think that's almost part of the therapy,

565
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: is surrendering to the process more than the actual process.

566
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 2: Oh no, sure, sure So.

567
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: Anyway, yeah, that inner child work. Dealing with that as

568
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: I've gotten older, and when you talk about self esteem,

569
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: for me, it wasn't anyone telling me I wasn't good enough.

570
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: It was my own. It was me at the age

571
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: of five, six, seven, eight nine, whatever, it was saying, oh,

572
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: I'm I'm not good enough for you to stay you

573
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: know exactly, and you know and now, of course it's

574
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: not my fault, but that was my perception. So it's

575
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: about going back into that little dude and almost healing

576
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: the little man essentially. But it's been hard, like it's

577
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: been hard to heal that little dude. Oh dude.

578
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 2: The inner child is I mean, it goes so deep, right,

579
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 2: and what you just described is exactly what happens, because

580
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 2: as children, you try to explain when bad things happen

581
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 2: with your little five year old brain. And yeah, so

582
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,479
Speaker 2: your five year old brain is gonna it's not gonna say, oh,

583
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 2: well that's their problem, like why they split up or

584
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 2: why yeah, he didn't decide to stay. Maybe that's because

585
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 2: he's got his own stuff that he's dealing with. Like

586
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 2: you don't know how to think that way when you're five.

587
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 2: When you're five, you just think, oh, I didn't love

588
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 2: me enough, or like that I wasn't good enough, like

589
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 2: you said, Like those are so much more of the

590
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 2: concepts that just get kind of cemented into your belief

591
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,959
Speaker 2: of yourself, right. Yeah, and then as you become an adult,

592
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 2: even if you get all this other validation and people

593
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 2: are constantly telling you how much they care about you

594
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: and that you are good enough, there's always going to

595
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 2: be that eye of skepticism like really, am I Like

596
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 2: are you sure? You know? You just kind of you're

597
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 2: it's just a different So yeah, like going back to

598
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,239
Speaker 2: do inner child work, I love that you shared your

599
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: experience with it because the first time that I had

600
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 2: to practice it to learn how to do it with

601
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 2: my patients, I was just rolling my eyes the whole time.

602
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 2: I was like, what are we doing? Is this hypnotism

603
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,959
Speaker 2: like some pseudoscience, you know? And then to realize, oh,

604
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 2: that inner child is it's a scientific part of yourself.

605
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 2: It's kind of that part of your brain that isn't

606
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 2: the frontal lobe that's like all about your high order

607
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 2: functioning and your executive functions. It's that part of your

608
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: brain that is more primordial and it's just like going

609
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 2: by feel. It might not even know how to expressly

610
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 2: discuss what it's feeling, because again, the inner child is

611
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 2: formed at a time when our language skills were not

612
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 2: the way they are when you're adults. But there's just

613
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 2: like a feeling. It's kind of that gut feeling we

614
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 2: talk about sometimes we have a gut feeling. It's that's

615
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 2: the part that I think is connected to your inner child,

616
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 2: and so you might not be able to totally explain

617
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 2: it with your intellect, but it's just a feeling you have.

618
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 2: You're just a feeling that you have that maybe you're

619
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 2: not good enough. And it's not about finding all the

620
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 2: evidence that you are because yeah, your intellectual brain knows that,

621
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 2: but somehow you just feel that deep down, you know,

622
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 2: I guess.

623
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: How do you eliminate Is it possible to totally eliminate

624
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: yeah things? Or is there always? Is there always residue?

625
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: You know?

626
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 2: Yeah? And I think that for a lot of people

627
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 2: there may be some residue. But then you start to

628
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 2: know that that's what it is, and you can quickly

629
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 2: turn your attention to healing your inner child in that

630
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 2: moment or validating them. But you know, back to your

631
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 2: questions that I know we got like kind of off track,

632
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 2: is I think that the best way to kind of

633
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 2: fight through some of these scenarios is to really engage

634
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 2: with your values. Like you have to take a step

635
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 2: back and say, what are the most important principles that

636
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 2: I want to live my life by? And obviously those

637
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 2: are not things you can check off the list. Like,

638
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter how many projects you get to work

639
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 2: on or how many awards you get. It's more about

640
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, even if I've accomplished

641
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 2: nothing on my to do list today, do I still

642
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 2: feel good about myself? And that really has to do

643
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 2: with your principles of life, and everybody has different values

644
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 2: or not things that you can check off, but they're

645
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 2: kind of like compass that you follow, and so they

646
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 2: could be things like adventure or community or spirituality or knowledge.

647
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 2: And it's like, did I do something today that honors

648
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 2: some of my top values? And if you can stay

649
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: on track with that, then I think it helps to

650
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: push through the times when you don't want to keep

651
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 2: going or you question and whether or not you should

652
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 2: go for it. It's like, well, let's see, is it

653
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 2: important to me based on my top values. If it is,

654
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 2: then you got to fight through it. And if not,

655
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 2: then maybe this wasn't a worthwhile goal to go after anyway,

656
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 2: you know, Yeah.

657
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. That's great, And all the therapy

658
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 1: that I've had, I'm not sure i've even heard that.

659
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: I like that. It's like you're cementing your foundation and

660
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: then once you have that, you know, then you can

661
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: from situation situation. You almost have like a bit of

662
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 1: a roadmap how to navigate it, you know, rather than

663
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: just being all over the place. I mean, I do

664
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: gratitude stuff. Problem with my gratitude stuff is it's the

665
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 1: same shit every day. I'm like I do ten things,

666
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 1: I write ten things. I'm grateful for it. I'm was like, okay,

667
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: here we go. Yeah, okay, my wife, my kids, the ocean.

668
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: It's just the same thing. I was trying to think

669
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: of different things, you know. Yeah, yeah, journaling, you know,

670
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: just sort of trying to self express. If it's not

671
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: with someone, you know, even talking to yourself sometimes helps.

672
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, me, oh totally, yeah, self talk for sure.

673
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.

674
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 2: I have conversations with myself all the time.

675
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: Oh my god, oh my god, my inner voice needs

676
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: to shut the fuck up because it's was there an age?

677
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 1: Is there? Like an age? Is there a cutoff? You

678
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: know what I mean? When ten, eleven or thirteen? And

679
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: then and then answer that question in the two parts

680
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: because you did study neuroscience, right am I not right

681
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: about that? Okay? So the development of the brain moving

682
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: from sort of toddler to teenager. I have a sixteen

683
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: or fourteen and an eleven year old. Oh yes, you know.

684
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: And as far as parenting goes, understanding that brain from

685
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: a science can I think really help the way that

686
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: you parent your kids because their brains are developing and

687
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: they're all over the place. Yeah, for sure.

688
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean there isn't a cutoff necessarily

689
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 2: for attachment styles to cement themselves. And you know, the

690
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 2: whole premise, of course, is that you can heal your

691
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 2: attachment at any age, so it doesn't ever is not

692
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 2: ever as static as people might think it is, although

693
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 2: it can be a pattern that you have to notice

694
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 2: and then break, you know. But I would say that

695
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 2: the most pivotal time for attachment to start to kind

696
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 2: of form into a style or a pattern is the

697
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 2: first six years of life. That's what we know from research.

698
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 2: Doesn't mean that doesn't happen at age nine, it's not

699
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 2: continue to transform, but it's like those first six years,

700
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,919
Speaker 2: and I think it corresponds to when we're the most

701
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 2: helpless as a species. Like you have your children, so

702
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 2: you know, as now they're in their eleven fourteen sixties,

703
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 2: like that time when they just start to like dress

704
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 2: themselves and like prepare their own breakfast. You're like, oh,

705
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 2: this is a lot better. But that kind of happens

706
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 2: around that time. It's like that kindergarten first year, like

707
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 2: they start to become a little bit more independent. They

708
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 2: have like their a lot of their own ideas and

709
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 2: they can execute some of them. Like I have a toddler,

710
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 2: he's almost three, and you know, he can't execute a

711
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 2: lot of his ideas. He has a ton of ideas

712
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 2: and he's very demanding. But then I have to do

713
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,760
Speaker 2: all of his ideas like that, okay, you know. So anyway,

714
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 2: I think it's the age when you start to become

715
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 2: more self sufficient, and that is when you have to

716
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 2: rely on your caregivers a little less. And so I

717
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 2: think that's why those first six years are the most foundational,

718
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 2: because if your caregiver wasn't around, like you could literally die,

719
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 2: you could and that's why that's when your attachment bonds

720
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 2: and how they impact you are the strongest.

721
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh for sure. Yeah. I mean part of Hoffman's

722
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: thing was about you know, self or negative love patterns,

723
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: because we need love to survive. Yeah, you know, just

724
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: just from an infant, you need love and love doesn't.

725
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: It's how we are perceiving love at that tiny little

726
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: or tiny little beings are still it's not conscious, but

727
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: there's a perception of love. And if that is negative,

728
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: if from your parents, it's it's you're attaching yourself to

729
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 1: those feelings because that's how you feel like you will

730
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: receive love or that's what it is, you know what

731
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like that that's the core of that whole therapy,

732
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: that whole week that I did there. You know, it's

733
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: just so fucking interesting. I mean, that's yeah, just to

734
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: dive into the mind and now go to the kids

735
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 1: and their brains and develop mental stuff. Like, first of all,

736
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 1: when is the brain fully developed?

737
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, So this is always a shocker when

738
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 2: I tell everybody this, but probably not until age thirty five,

739
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 2: what I know. And then this is the craziest part

740
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 2: is that then it quickly starts deteriorating. So like you're

741
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 2: kind of like at the peak of your cognitive prowess

742
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 2: I'll say, around the age of thirty five, which is

743
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 2: also when your executive functions totally forms. Yeah, and then

744
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 2: like literally the year after that, it starts to decline

745
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 2: in certain areas like memory or like attention. And I'm like,

746
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 2: that is so crazy, Like, so you basically have twelve

747
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 2: months to be at your peak cognitive functioning and then

748
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 2: you're done. Yeah. So people when they say things like oh,

749
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 2: well he's eighteen, like his executive functions are all developed,

750
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 2: Like yeah, you wish like that's absolutely not. That's that's

751
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 2: when they're starting to get on a roll of developing.

752
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 2: But then it kind of continues for the next ten

753
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 2: to seventeen years. So there are some people whose executive

754
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,839
Speaker 2: function is formed by the age of twenty nine or thirty.

755
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 2: But yeah, pretty much the average is more like thirty five.

756
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 1: And then but some kids are their executive functioning is

757
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: way more developed than others. I mean I know that

758
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: because I have three of them, and my oldest is

759
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 1: you know, but this year was a really big year, meaning, wow,

760
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: he's doing shit on his own. He's in tenth grade.

761
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: He wasn't tenth three, only eleven. But you know, before

762
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 1: it's like wilder, like did you dear homewer? Where my

763
00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: middle his executive function was just on you would just

764
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 1: get it done.

765
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 2: You know.

766
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:07,320
Speaker 1: It's funny how things. Yes, there's just levels of maturity,

767
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: level of levels of brain development, And I'm wonder is

768
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: that genetic? You think?

769
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 2: Yes, some of it's definitely genetic, as well as what

770
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 2: they feel they're being rewarded for. So when I was

771
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 2: a teenager, I was being rewarded all the time for

772
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 2: getting my homework done on time. Et cetera. So like

773
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 2: I did it more because I knew it was a

774
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 2: way that I would get validation and support than love. Right,

775
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 2: So I think it's a combination of genetics and how

776
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 2: the environment's responding to It's like that with any trait,

777
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 2: Like if you learn from a young age that you're

778
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 2: a funny kid, you're probably going to become funnier over

779
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 2: time because you know that whenever you crack a joke,

780
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 2: people laugh and they're excited, they're happy exactly, So then

781
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 2: you develop that more. But yeah, so you definitely see

782
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 2: differences in people. And I think that the biggest thing

783
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 2: with teenagers as they're getting their brain to be in

784
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 2: a more mature state, is that, yeah, some of their

785
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 2: executive functions are growing, like they can do more complex

786
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 2: things and they can self monitor a little better. But

787
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 2: the one thing that I think is the slowest to

788
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 2: develop is impulse control. So like you know, when you're

789
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 2: eighteen versus twenty one versus thirty one versus forty one,

790
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 2: you know you you may still have impulses, but by

791
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 2: the time you're forty one, like you just don't act

792
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:17,839
Speaker 2: on them as much anymore. If you know that it's

793
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 2: not a good idea, but when you're twenty one, you

794
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 2: would just act on it. You're like, why not? Who cares?

795
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 2: Like you just don't think about the future the same way.

796
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 2: So I think that that's one of the things that's

797
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 2: the slowest to mature, is just that ability to look

798
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 2: at your impulses and be like, is this a good

799
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 2: thing to do or not? And then if not, can

800
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 2: you kind of move on to something that would be

801
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 2: more productive. That's the last thing to come in. Yeah.

802
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, So totally still working on impulse control.

803
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 2: Right, Hello, I get it.

804
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 1: It's so hard. God, I'm still a child, Like that's

805
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: the problem. Still, I love it, though, child, No, it is.

806
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 1: It is you got to hear that.

807
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 2: Part of you. You got to honor that part of you.

808
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 2: I know now I embrace it, but I hear what

809
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 2: you're saying. I mean sometimes, you know, because my husband

810
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,359
Speaker 2: and I are very different. My husband is much more

811
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 2: like he wants things planned, weight to advance. He doesn't

812
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 2: like it when things are out of place. But I

813
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,720
Speaker 2: love to like wake up one day and if somehow,

814
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,399
Speaker 2: like I had some patient cancelations, I'm like, well, I'm

815
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 2: going to Disneyland, Like I just roll, I just roll up.

816
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 2: I'm like why not? And he doesn't get that. He's like,

817
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 2: why would you do that? Why don't you just stay

818
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 2: home and relax. I'm like, no, the whole point is

819
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 2: like it's fun to be impulsive, you know.

820
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I still want to try to do that.

821
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:24,439
Speaker 2: Yeah.

822
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 1: My wife is a planner man. And she's like, okay, well,

823
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 1: so in March twenty twenty five, I've got I'm like, what,

824
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: I don't even know onead Friday. Okay, I can't, I can't,

825
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: I can't even go there. We just had a little

826
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 1: not an argument, but I hadn't seen her in a

827
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: couple of days or whatever. And she gets in the

828
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: car and she starts planning things. I'm like, babe, I

829
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 1: don't want to talk about this, Like I just I

830
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 1: don't want to plan. She's like, well, I'm not trying

831
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: to plan. I'm just saying, like, these are things we

832
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: have to figure out. I'm like, I know we can

833
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 1: figure them out later.

834
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 2: Can we have a beat? Yeah? Just an hour? I

835
00:42:58,320 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 2: hear that. That's so funny.

836
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,800
Speaker 1: I know, I know, but it makes it work, you

837
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like, I don't know what I

838
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:05,399
Speaker 1: do without her.

839
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. We're attracted to people who are different from us.

840
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 2: And I am of the belief that you tend to

841
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 2: be attracted to somebody, whether you know it or not,

842
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 2: to somebody who like shows you like a different way

843
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 2: of life. Like, I don't really see a lot of

844
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 2: people who are just always the same in terms of

845
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 2: how their approaches. I think my husband balances me out

846
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 2: because if it wasn't for him, I'd just be like

847
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 2: running off of me. I'm very accident prone, so I'll

848
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 2: just constantly just like fall while I'm running, like things

849
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 2: like that, and he's just so careful. He's never had

850
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 2: a fall like literally in his life. And I'm like, well,

851
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 2: it's probably good to find somewhere in between, because I'm

852
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 2: sick of getting all these injuries all the time.

853
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: Going back to the four pillars as we call them,

854
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: I guess I was just it popped into my house.

855
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 1: Just it's interesting to think that without the negativity, some

856
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: of the greatest things probably would never be invented. You know,

857
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: the mankind would look differently, you know. I mean, I

858
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: don't know Steve Jobs, but you know, if sometimes you

859
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 1: because you've had these situations in your life and because

860
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 1: you are one of the four in the negative ones

861
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 1: and anyway, you know, the anxious attachment or whatever it

862
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: has spurned on people to do incredible things and to

863
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 1: change the world. Yeah, you know, so it's not all there.

864
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 1: There is really I mean, of course there's negative, but

865
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: there's all You can always turn those negatives into something incredible,

866
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: you know.

867
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean where would we be without negative self

868
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 2: talk and negative thoughts? I mean you have to have

869
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 2: some of that. And actually negative thinking is adaptive to

870
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 2: a degree. If we didn't think about the potential threats

871
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 2: that would hurt us, we would not be alive as

872
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:01,800
Speaker 2: a species. I mean, I know that we talk about

873
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 2: mindfulness and it's such an important part of well being,

874
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 2: et cetera. But if you think back to the cave

875
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 2: man days, the people who were mindful were dead. I mean,

876
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 2: our ancestors are not the mindful ones. The people who

877
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 2: are being mindful got eaten by bears. They didn't see it, right. So,

878
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,479
Speaker 2: like you have to understand too that, like in terms

879
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 2: of a hereditary perspective, like the anxious brain was what

880
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 2: was passed down to us. It was the nervous nellies

881
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 2: that are alive. Now you know. So anyway, like, like

882
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,240
Speaker 2: you said, a lot of the most amazing inventions wouldn't

883
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,479
Speaker 2: be invented, a lot of the greatest art works would

884
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 2: not be developed if there wasn't a negative perspective because

885
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 2: that feels ideas for our survival and.

886
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: Our thriving totally. And when you talk about art too, yes,

887
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: more art than anything, you know, it's my world is

888
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 1: just you know, the not art in itself, but just

889
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 1: just the arts, the artistic endeavors, I guess. And how

890
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: many how many of us are crazy? You know? How many?

891
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: Is how much amazing things are coming from your pain

892
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: and your anxiety? Yeah, you know that form of expression

893
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: mostly comes from something negative. And when you're looking at

894
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 1: comedians stand ups, most of them are fucked up, most

895
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: of them are they they use that as an outlet.

896
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 2: Right, It's a coping strategy.

897
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 1: It's a coping mechanism for sure, you know.

898
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's really interesting. Yeah when you think about it,

899
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 2: and you're absolutely right, I mean when you think about

900
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 2: the arts, and obviously that requires digging deep. People just

901
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 2: don't dig that deep when things are going well. It's like,

902
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 2: what is there to dig into?

903
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: I'm happy?

904
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,320
Speaker 2: You know, people are kind of just like reveling in

905
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 2: that moment as opposed to, well, why do I feel

906
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 2: this way? Why am I so upset? Why do I

907
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 2: have depression? Like those are the things that really cause

908
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 2: you to think deeply and reflect on the human condition.

909
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 2: And then that's what people respond to when you produce

910
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 2: artwork in that vein, because it speaks to like a

911
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 2: universality of what everybody feels.

912
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, my problem is that I'm like a fair weather

913
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: mindfulness person. Mean, when I'm not feeling well, I've been

914
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: throughout made bounce of anxiety and it's just a part

915
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 1: of my life.

916
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 2: You know.

917
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: I'm on Lexapro and I've learned to deal with it

918
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 1: over twenty plus years. But you know, when I am

919
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 1: starting to get into a funky place, I meditate my

920
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: ass off, I write my journal, like I run, I

921
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: do this, and I'm like, all right, I feel great.

922
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,439
Speaker 1: Like where's the tequila? You know what I mean? Yeah? Yeah,

923
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: the maintenance, just main the mainenans.

924
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:36,800
Speaker 2: Oh, I know that is the hardest though. Like I

925
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 2: was saying, when things are going well, it's easy to

926
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,359
Speaker 2: not want to do them because you're like, oh, I'm

927
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 2: just going to enjoy feeling well. But yeah, prevention and

928
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 2: maintenance is such a big piece of it, and it

929
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 2: is hard. I mean, I think that that that feeling

930
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 2: is very I think it's very relatable. Like I think

931
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,439
Speaker 2: that I've learned that over time that if I don't

932
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 2: do the prevention and maintenance and like, I burn out

933
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 2: much quicker, and I just kind of I have to.

934
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 2: So there are times when I rather not, but I'm like, oh,

935
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 2: I better do it, you.

936
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: Know, better do it. Do you do you practice? I

937
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 1: mean you do you meditate or do you practice?

938
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 2: Oh no, I hate I hate meditation. Yeah he did,

939
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 2: But I do practice mindfulness, but I hate meditator.

940
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, I have to like is

941
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: it too hard? I mean I can't sit there and

942
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:24,879
Speaker 1: do this? Yes? Yes.

943
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 2: And I think that that tells you a lot about

944
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 2: kind of where my starter attachment style was, Like I

945
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 2: just feel like I have no time for it, you know,

946
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 2: like I was, I always love being this workaholic, being

947
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 2: busy all the time. It's like, yeah, but you know,

948
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 2: maybe it's because you don't really want to think so

949
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 2: deeply about certain things, you know. But I have found

950
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 2: a happy medium. I do visualizations. I think that those

951
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,240
Speaker 2: are more effective for me. Yeah, in her child stuff,

952
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 2: A lot of that's visual that works for me. But

953
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 2: just meditating, like I know some amazing practitioner they just

954
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:56,879
Speaker 2: like sit there for thirty minutes, yeah, clear, clear their

955
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,959
Speaker 2: mind or whatever I think I've done five minutes. Yeah,

956
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 2: So like that's kind of my threshold for And then

957
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 2: with mindfulness too, I prefer what I call practical mindfulness,

958
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 2: which is doing something that I'm already doing every day,

959
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 2: but single minded don't have distractions, like and some of

960
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 2: those can be so mundane. It's like folding laundry but

961
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 2: not also talking on the phone at the same time, right,

962
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 2: just being like one like this is my attention.

963
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:26,359
Speaker 1: Like love that. It's so true. Meditation. I think there's

964
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 1: a there's a connotation of the word where it's you're sitting,

965
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 1: you know, cross legg and with your elbow, hands underneath.

966
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: But meditation is not that. There's all different forms of meditations, walking, meditations,

967
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 1: sports can be meditation. Anything. Fishing for me is my meditation.

968
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:45,839
Speaker 1: You know, where you're on a singular focused scuba diving

969
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 1: is probably the greatest thing in the world.

970
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 2: Amazing.

971
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 1: All you hear is your breath. You know, and you're floating.

972
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: So I think, to each their own, there is no

973
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: right way to do it exactly.

974
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 2: I used to judge myself all the time, like, oh

975
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 2: my gosh, I can't do meditation the way that we

976
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 2: traditionally think of meditation. But you're absolutely right. Like, I

977
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 2: run every day and that's my meditation time. Essentially. I

978
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,760
Speaker 2: don't have anything else open. Sometimes I run with no music.

979
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's what's your How many miles? What do

980
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: you run? What's your typical?

981
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,879
Speaker 2: Like five miles? I used to run a little more. Yeah,

982
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 2: five miles a day. Some days I run three if

983
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 2: I have less time, but like, it really helps. The

984
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 2: first ten minutes is kind of painful, so I have

985
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 2: to get past that part. So I try to do

986
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 2: like a forty five minutes to sixty minute run, and

987
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 2: depending on how I'm feeling.

988
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: That day, It's like how the first part of the

989
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: run is horrendous and the worst.

990
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 2: You know, you get on the zone, you get that

991
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 2: runners high that everyone talks about, and it's there. It's true.

992
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I really attest to that. But it's

993
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 2: like an endorphin rush. It's like my free, my free

994
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 2: endorphins for the day, Like I really want to make

995
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 2: sure I get that. But yeah, anytime I stop running,

996
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 2: and a lot of times it's been physical injury. As

997
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 2: I've gotten older, it really changes my mindset. Like that's

998
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 2: so crazy, how quickly you become a dark person without

999
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 2: your go to coping strategy.

1000
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 1: What do you run?

1001
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 2: Like?

1002
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: What are your miles? Like?

1003
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:08,879
Speaker 2: Like, I'm a jogger. I'm just like a slow, slow

1004
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 2: jog Oh no, I'm not a good runner. No, I'm

1005
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 2: a bad runner. That's not The whole point is that

1006
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 2: it's okay if you're not good at it.

1007
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 1: You know, I've had to like really no figure that

1008
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 1: I totally resonate what you're saying. So everyone everyone has

1009
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 1: music when they run. I don't, Yeah, because I listen

1010
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 1: to my footsteps and my breath and my mind is able.

1011
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 2: To just go.

1012
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: You know.

1013
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 2: It's so great, so great. I've had some amazing revelations running,

1014
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,879
Speaker 2: Like again, it's it's mindfulness. But it's not like I'm

1015
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 2: trying to direct my thoughts right, So sometimes I have

1016
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 2: like a really creative idea when I'm running, and I'm

1017
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 2: like so excited. I'm like, oh yes, But it wasn't

1018
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 2: like I was going for that, you know, it's just

1019
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 2: you're just kind of being okay with whatever comes. Yeah,

1020
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 2: so that's that's what's cool about it.

1021
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, your book came out in March. What's it called

1022
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 1: give Us a Little Preview or starrety opp but give

1023
00:51:59,360 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 1: us an Overview.

1024
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's called The New Rules of Attachment, and

1025
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 2: it's about identifying your attachment style, understanding how you can

1026
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 2: heal it at any age and stage, and also learning

1027
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:13,240
Speaker 2: how to get along with people with other attachment styles.

1028
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 2: I think that that's really important. Most people do not

1029
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,919
Speaker 2: end up partnering with a person with the same attachment style,

1030
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 2: or there's some important person in their life, whether it's

1031
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,399
Speaker 2: a coworker, a family member, or a really dear friend

1032
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 2: who just communicates differently than you do. And I think

1033
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 2: of attachment style sometimes as manifesting, almost like love languages,

1034
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 2: Like people need different things to feel good, and so

1035
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,239
Speaker 2: it's important to know those types of tips too as

1036
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 2: you're doing your own healing work about how to con

1037
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 2: you know, kind of have conversations and how to be

1038
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:44,279
Speaker 2: in relationship with others who might be coming from a

1039
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 2: different perspective than you are.

1040
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 1: That's great. So Basically, if you're meeting someone and falling

1041
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 1: in love and you have the same attachment style, just

1042
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: get out.

1043
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 2: No, that's hilarious. Well, I think you would see each

1044
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 2: other's blind spots a lot more. But you might also

1045
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 2: use the same coping and a bad way like to avoidance.

1046
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 2: I think that's tough, right, because then like there's nobody

1047
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 2: to like feel the engine really like anytime things get

1048
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 2: too intimate that they both just kind of go to

1049
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:10,520
Speaker 2: their corners.

1050
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And do you have a podcast? Yeah?

1051
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:16,839
Speaker 2: I have a podcast. It's it's one that's a very

1052
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 2: very short one. It's like a ten minute podcast that

1053
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 2: I just launched a few weeks ago. It's called it's

1054
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 2: called uh Mental Health Bites with Dodger Judy. So basically,

1055
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 2: in ten minutes, you just get like a timely topic

1056
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:29,880
Speaker 2: and answer to a burning question and then a practical

1057
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 2: tip to to charge up your mental wellness for the day.

1058
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 1: I love that. That's because that's how we operate now

1059
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 1: and bites.

1060
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:40,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we don't have the time span.

1061
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 1: Yes, it's crazy, I know, but that's the way it works. Okay,

1062
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 1: final question, what am I?

1063
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:51,840
Speaker 2: Okay, We're ready? I think you have predominantly anxious attachment

1064
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 2: mixed with secure.

1065
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:58,879
Speaker 1: That's what I think. I think it's predominantly anxious attachment, right,

1066
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:01,400
Speaker 1: like a little spice of you.

1067
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 2: Got the secure, sprinkles of secure in every part of life.

1068
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 2: It feels like it kind of just comes out in

1069
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 2: like the most inconvenient places. Like you're secure when things

1070
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:12,719
Speaker 2: are going well, right, and then it's only when you're

1071
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 2: stressed that the anxious attachment starts to like rear its head.

1072
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 2: You're like, what's up? Why? Yeah?

1073
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And then I just sort of I

1074
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: spin out sometimes where I'm just like, dude, what are

1075
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 1: you doing? What are you doing? Yeah?

1076
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 2: Am I still analyzing this?

1077
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: And this pain that is just hasn't even happened yet,

1078
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,799
Speaker 1: and you're tripping and for your you know, I mean,

1079
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:38,759
Speaker 1: it's unbelievable what our brains, how incredibly powerful our brains are.

1080
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 1: It's yeah, and we can cause physical ailments with this

1081
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 1: organ in our head. It's unbelievable.

1082
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 2: It's so crazy. But here's a reframe though. For your

1083
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 2: supposedly anxious, over analytical mind, that's just a very very

1084
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 2: strong survival instinct. So I love this little exercise of

1085
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 2: just basically thanking your mind when you know this is

1086
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:03,360
Speaker 2: spinning out, Like I give my mind a name. My

1087
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 2: mind's name is Betty right now, and I'll just be like,

1088
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,400
Speaker 2: thanks Betty. But I got it, you know, like not

1089
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 2: just sometimes enough to shake me out of something where

1090
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 2: it's like, look, you can keep analyzing this, but there's

1091
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,360
Speaker 2: actually no solution and there's nothing you can do about it,

1092
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 2: so you gotta just you know, recently, my main thing

1093
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 2: has been about existential stuff because I'm in midlife. I'm

1094
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:26,239
Speaker 2: only a couple of years younger than you. I think

1095
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 2: I'm the same age as your sister, so I've been

1096
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 2: thinking a lot about life and death stuff. Yeah, I

1097
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 2: just have to stop myself and be like, thanks Betty,

1098
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 2: because guess what, like we are all gonna die, so.

1099
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe when we get off, I'm gonna name in

1100
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:40,800
Speaker 1: my brain because I like that, because I get it

1101
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 1: all existential too, where the death thing freak me the

1102
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 1: fuck out, breaks me out because they've got kids and

1103
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 1: I'm like, I got need to be there for them,

1104
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:52,840
Speaker 1: and yes, my dad wasn't. I'm gonna, you know, and

1105
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:55,320
Speaker 1: then and then you just gotta sort of everyone's gonna go.

1106
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:58,839
Speaker 2: I know, you can't you know what it's not. There's

1107
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:00,839
Speaker 2: nothing you can do about it. You know, there's something

1108
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:02,759
Speaker 2: you know. It's not like the movie that your mom

1109
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 2: was in, Death Becomes Her, which was actually one of

1110
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 2: my favorite movies.

1111
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:07,719
Speaker 1: Great movie, and I'm just like, you know.

1112
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 2: You can imagine that. But you see, there was also

1113
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:13,319
Speaker 2: still a lesson to be learned. Yeah, nobody can live forever.

1114
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 1: Maybe it's not.

1115
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,800
Speaker 2: Well, so you gotta just gotta just yeah. But I

1116
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:21,080
Speaker 2: was getting into these crazy little like loops of like

1117
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:22,919
Speaker 2: thinking about what it would feel like like the moment

1118
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 2: I died. Oh yeah, and you know, so you just

1119
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:27,799
Speaker 2: have to stop. You're like, so you know what it's

1120
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:28,320
Speaker 2: coming for you.

1121
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:31,280
Speaker 1: I used to trip myself out as a kid or teenage,

1122
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 1: like thirteen fourteen, what is death? And I still do

1123
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:37,319
Speaker 1: it today. Sometimes I'm like, is it just blackness? It's

1124
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:39,960
Speaker 1: just black, I know, And then I'm like, well, you're

1125
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 1: not going to be conscious to know that it's black,

1126
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 1: so it wouldn't scary. But but but then the idea

1127
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 1: that I am no longer going to be existing on

1128
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:49,720
Speaker 1: this planet.

1129
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 2: Like what I means such a crazy trip.

1130
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 1: Grip yourself out.

1131
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 2: You could really trip yourself out, and that's that's when

1132
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:58,239
Speaker 2: you have to say, thanks Betty, but I got it.

1133
00:56:58,560 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 2: Let's move on.

1134
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 1: Good. Yeah, well it has been so fun. I appreciate

1135
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 1: the time.

1136
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:04,359
Speaker 2: Oh, I appreciate you too.

1137
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 1: You've taught me things. I'm going to name my brain

1138
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 1: after we get off of this. I appreciate you, thank you,

1139
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 1: thank you. All right, fun, fun, have a good day. Okay.

1140
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna name my brain Doug. Hey, Doug,

1141
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: shut the fuck up. I like it. I think Doug

1142
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:29,920
Speaker 1: is a perfect name from my brain. So much interesting

1143
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: things or so many interesting things?

1144
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 2: Right?

1145
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 1: Not so much? Man? What would it's like to be

1146
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 1: full of that much knowledge about one specific topic and

1147
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 1: then how you live your life accordingly? You know what

1148
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 1: I mean? Like when things go wrong and her relationships

1149
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 1: or her you know, hold her husband or whatever, does

1150
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 1: she ever spin out? Or does Betty always she always

1151
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 1: just knows how to talk to Betty. I guess I

1152
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 1: don't know. But she was great. Everyone's great. I always

1153
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 1: say that everyone's great, because no one really hasn't hasn't

1154
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 1: been great. Everyone's honestly been great. But it would be

1155
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 1: weird if someone we finished something like that was not good,

1156
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 1: and that just didn't go very well. Maybe we'll find

1157
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 1: one of those, but not today. Not today. The doctor

1158
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 1: came through with a ton of wisdom and yeah, I

1159
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 1: learned something new every day. Hopefully you do too. This

1160
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 1: is Oliver Hudson signing off.