WEBVTT - Get more done as a team, with Ron Friedman 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:09.280 Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning. 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:14.840 This is Laura, Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:17.919 episode is going to be a slightly longer one part 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:20.800 of the series where I interview fascinating people about how 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:23.520 they take their days from great to awesome and any 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:26.400 advice they have for the rest of us. So today 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:29.120 I am delighted to welcome Ron Friedmant to Before Breakfast. 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:32.640 Ron is the author of the brand new book Super Teams. 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:34.080 So Ron, welcome to the show. 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:35.840 Thanks for having me, Laura. 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:37.239 I'm excited to have you here. Why don't you tell 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:38.800 our listeners a little bit about yourself. 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.840 Yeah, So I started off as a professor's teaching psychology 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:45.479 at colleges and universities, and then I went off into 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:48.960 the corporate world and my job was to be upholster. 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:51.920 My role was to figure out what it is that 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:56.320 people believe and then advise organizations using psychological principles. And 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:58.880 what I discovered being the corporate world was that there 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:01.560 was a massive divide between the latest science and the 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:04.120 modern workplace. And it was everything from the way that 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:06.560 companies hire to the way that managers motivate, to the 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:09.800 basic cloud of a modern office just appeared blind to 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:12.320 so many great insights about how we can get people 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:15.520 to be more motivated and engaged and productive. So I 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:17.360 turned my attention to writing my first book, and that 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:19.280 was the Best Place to Work. And in it, I 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:23.400 turned over a thousand academic studies into plain English, so 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:26.039 that regardless if you're someone who's running an organization or 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:29.800 just starting out, you had the best research on creating 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:32.119 a great workplace. And in my new book, Super Teams, 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:34.280 I talk about how to create the best possible team. 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:38.320 Awesome, Well, teams are good. And yet this is the 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:40.920 question for you, Ron, what makes a team good? Because 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:42.120 I know in your book you do a lot of 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:45.080 comparisons between the best teams and everyone else to find 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:47.920 out what it is that the best teams do differently. 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:50.800 So how did you determine that a team was a 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:51.600 good team? 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:51.760 Like? 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:52.800 What are the metrics there? 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:56.880 Yeah, So we ran surveys where we pulled thousands of 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:59.240 workers across a wide range of industries and we asked 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:02.400 them two key quess about their teams. The first question 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:05.440 was how effective is your team at achieving its goals? 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:08.320 And the second question is compared to other teams in 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.560 your industry, how would you rate your team's performance? And 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:13.880 then we took the teams with a perfect score, a 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:16.880 very tiny group, about eight percent. We call them super teams, 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:18.680 and we look to see what are the super teams 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:20.920 doing differently compared to the average team. 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:23.480 Yeah, and you found there were all sorts of different 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:26.000 things that they did. A lot of people think that 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:30.520 work is about teamwork is about collaboration, and it obviously is. 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:33.519 But one of the first things you talk about in 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:35.720 the book is that you found that super teams actually 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:40.320 prioritize individual focused time. Can you talk about that? 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:44.119 Yeah, I think that a lot of times organizations say 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:47.400 they want collaboration, but what they get instead is constant communication, 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:49.960 and that's not the same thing as collaboration. If you 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:52.520 look at the most successful collaborators, what they tend to 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:56.560 do is they tend to cycle between deep work and 0:02:56.600 --> 0:03:00.360 then collaborative work to fine tune those ideas and just 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:02.840 to take a step back. So, what are the super 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:05.519 teams actually doing differently? The first key strength that we 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:07.399 found and we found three of them. The first key 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:10.519 strength is that they do a better job of getting 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:13.360 more done by better managing their time. Energy and attention. 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:16.840 And I'm sure that's an idea that is hugely appealing 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:19.480 both to you and too listeners of the show, because 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:23.200 you're so good at identifying these great productivity tips. That's 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:25.440 what they're doing at the team level. I think at 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:29.880 most organizations, people are left to scavenge for focused time alone. 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:32.799 And what we found is that, in fact, a lot 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:36.040 of the productivity tips that people use to create opportunities 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:39.280 for deep work end up slowing down the team because 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:42.160 one person's deep work is another person's bottleneck. And so 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:46.880 if everyone is individually incorporating these productivity tips, like they're 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:49.680 turning off their email, or they're batching their email, or 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:53.800 they're turning off notifications, that tends to slow the team down. 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:57.400 The best teams are collaborative in their approach to focus. 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:00.960 They're doing things like setting aside dedicated focus blocks for 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:04.720 ninety minutes where everyone can focus together without having to 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:07.320 respond to emails. Or they're doing things like meeting free 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:10.360 days where people have the opportunity to just really get 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:13.480 things done without having to constantly be interrupted. And so 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.960 the best teams are taking a team approach to solving 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:18.200 this focus problem. 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:20.279 I love how you put it that people are scavenging 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:22.359 for time, because yes, a lot of the advice people 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:26.039 are giving to claw back this focus time from the 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:30.720 constant communication is about stopping the back and forth. But 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:33.479 we want to make sure that we have an opportunity 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:35.279 for both. And the problem is, you know, often, like 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:37.599 the whole forty hours a week is consumed in the 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.120 back and forth. So talk about this, how would you 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:42.720 run a schedule like as a team, like, how would 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:44.800 you talk about doing this so that everyone could have 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:47.400 that focus time? I mean you said sort of ground rules, 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:48.160 like what do you do? 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:50.599 One of my favorite tips on the book is something 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:54.040 I call meeting guidelines, and meeting guidelines are a simple 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:58.640 fix to unproductive meetings. So here's what meeting guidelines mean. 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.200 It means getting clear with your team on what deserves 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:05.200 a meeting and what doesn't. A lot of organizations just 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:07.839 simply allow anyone to call a meeting for any purpose, 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:11.599 and unfortunately, many people use meetings as a crutch. It 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:14.760 prevents them from having to make a decision and it 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:18.520 gives them license to procrastinate because after all, they're waiting 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:22.480 for other people's input. So when you set meeting guidelines, 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:27.440 what happens is all those opportunities for unnecessary meetings evaporate. 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:31.240 So within my team, we have a simple rule, no decision, 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:34.880 no meeting unless there's a decision to be made. We're 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:37.599 not going to pull people away from doing their work. 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:40.440 If you have a question, pick up the phone. If 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:43.120 you have an update that's an email or a screen capture. 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:46.039 Another example of a meeting guideline in super teams is 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:48.680 from the company Percolate in New York City. They have 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.840 a meeting guideline that says no spectators. If you're not 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:54.320 contributing to the meeting, you don't need to be there. 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.400 It's not a criticism, it's respect for your time. And 0:05:57.480 --> 0:05:59.719 so what happens is when you have these meeting guidelines, 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:03.080 you can literally save people ten hours a week. And 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:04.760 one thing I didn't mention that I think until now, 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:09.000 is that most employees end up spending eighteen hours a 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:12.239 week in meetings and then another eleven hours a week 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:16.479 on email. That leaves about a day to do a 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:19.320 week's worth of work. That's the reality many of us 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:21.599 live in. And what happens when you have a week 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:23.960 to do a single you have a single day to 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:26.720 cram a week's worth of work, you look for ways 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:29.240 to create more time and a lot of For a 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.440 lot of workers, that means coming in late or working 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.720 on coming in earlier, or staying late, or working on weekends. 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:36.600 And that approach conserva you in the short term, but 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:38.800 if you keep working like that, invariably are going to 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:39.359 burn out. 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.920 Well, let's talk about the other sorts of collaboration that 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:45.640 people are trying to claw their time back from when 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:48.440 when we don't have a healthy work environment. That's things 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:51.000 like slack and like the frequent long emails like you 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:54.280 mentioned you have, you know, meeting guidelines. I'm curious about, 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:57.640 you know, things like slack and email, how people preserve 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:00.599 time for focus and yet also make sure that people 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:01.320 are responsive. 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:03.960 I think the key is getting clear with your team 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:06.039 on when we're going to be monitoring our message and 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:08.800 when we're all going to log off. And I think 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:10.880 this assumption that we all need to be available for 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:14.080 each other all day long is not just wrongheaded, but counterproductive. 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:17.280 And so if we as a group can agree that 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:20.800 between let's say nine to eleven every morning, we're going 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:23.400 to focus on't getting our work done, but between eight 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.320 and nine in the morning, and then eleven to twelve 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:28.640 in the morning, we're going to check our messages. That's 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:31.680 a perfectly reasonable response. Now, of course, there are going 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:34.360 to be vary variations depending on what industry you're in, 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:36.680 so an approach that can work for a creative team 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:40.360 might not work for a for a PR team. But 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.280 the point is to be deliberate and intentional about how 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.280 you're carving out time instead of just assuming that focuses 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:48.080 something individuals need to find time for. 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:50.840 Is there a way to spend less time on email? 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:52.560 I'm curious about that one in particular. 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:55.400 I think there is, but I think that what it 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:59.640 ultimately comes down to is a carving out time for 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:02.280 on email hours. But beyond that, one of the things 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:04.400 we find that super teams do more often is that 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:08.440 they write out standard operating procedures that detail how a 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:11.640 project is supposed to be done instead of relying on 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:15.040 people to contact their teammates with constant questions. The more 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:17.880 specific you can get about how things are done the 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.960 right way, the less communication you need to have. And 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:23.640 so that's another way of freeing people up from the 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:27.080 constant communication that unfortunately sinks too many of our days. 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:29.480 Absolutely well We're going to take a quick ad break 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:38.920 and then I'll be back with more from Ron Friedman. Well, 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:41.439 I am back talking with Ron Friedman, who is the 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:44.440 author of the brand new book super Teams. So Ron, 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:48.040 I was fascinated to see that teams could super teams 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.640 could be remote or hybrid too. I think there's a 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:53.040 story out there that you know, the real teams, the 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:55.319 real productive teams are all in the same place, that 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:57.760 that's what real collaboration looks like. And you found that 0:08:58.200 --> 0:08:59.880 it was really location agnostic. 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:04.960 That's exactly right. So we often hear about CEOs who 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:07.280 call everyone back into the office with the assumption that 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:11.079 the team will be more effective and closer knit if 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:13.880 they're all in the same location, And in fact, there's 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:17.000 research showing that there's actually conflicting research on this. Some 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:20.360 research says we're working from home. Other research says we're 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:22.880 more effective working at the office because you were better 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:26.439 at establishing trust and have more collaboration. So in our study, 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:29.480 we looked at something completely different. We looked at where 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:32.280 are super teams more likely to occur? And what we 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:35.560 found is it doesn't make a difference. They're just as 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.640 likely to happen working remotely as they are hybrid and 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:43.880 in office. And that's because where a team works isn't 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.760 nearly as important as how the team works. And I 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:49.160 got to tell you, I get an inside look at 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:52.680 the way a lot of organizations operate and the number 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:56.400 of smart, ambitious professionals who lose hours of their day 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:58.680 commuting just so that they can get to the office, 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:02.280 fire up their laptop and attend the same zoom meeting 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:07.360 they could have included themselves in from home is heartbreaking. 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.480 And making the most of our our time together in 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:13.400 the same location requires intention and planning. It's one thing 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:16.120 to require everyone into the office another to say, look, 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:17.520 we're going to leave it up to you to figure 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:20.520 out where your most effective, but on Tuesdays and Thursdays, 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:23.200 we're going to have strategic conversations. So get your pre 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:25.760 reads in on Friday so that everyone can show up 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:29.200 ready to contribute. The latter is taking advantage of what 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:33.040 togetherness has to offer while empowering people to be productive 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:34.360 in the way that they work best. 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:37.080 Is there anything that remote or hybrid teams do need 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:39.959 to pay attention to, specially to make sure that they 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:42.760 are maintaining that that close knit sense. 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:46.640 I think there are opportunities for any team to work 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:49.559 more effectively, and that applies to remote teams. I think 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:53.320 remote teams have to have some clear rules about when 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:55.560 video calls, for example, are useful and when they or not. 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:57.000 One of the things I talk about in the book 0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:59.880 is that we've defaulted to video calls ever since CO 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:03.240 and THEY and during COVID. It's served a purpose. It 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:05.040 allowed us to feel like we were on the same 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:07.520 page and seeing each other's faces and we weren't alone. 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:10.840 But there are some important costs to video calls that 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:12.800 we often often ignore. 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:12.960 It. 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:17.040 So in real life it's completely unnatural to stare someone 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:20.040 in the face for an hour straight on video calls. 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:24.439 Looking away feels rude, and so we overcompensate and it's exhausting. 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:28.160 And so there's research showing that if you are on 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:30.600 video calls all day, you're going to have less energy 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:33.840 and make worse decisions than if you had those same 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:36.560 conversations on the phone. Now, to be clear, there are 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:39.600 that opportunities for doing video calls when when they're actually 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:42.280 quite valuable. So for example, if you're just establishing a 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:47.000 relationship or there's a disagreement in those cases, getting on 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:50.240 video calls makes complete sense. But because you're you can 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:52.720 see the other person's face and you're less likely to 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:56.040 and misinterpret what they mean. But unless that's the case, 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:58.719 if you already have a relationship and there's no disagreement 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:00.920 in place, there's no reason to use video calls. Stick 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:02.520 to phone calls. You'll have a lot more energy as 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:03.120 a result. 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:05.560 Well, let's get to that place of trust, because one 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:07.920 of the things that super teams are built on is 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.480 having a lot of trust in your colleagues. Now, obviously, 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:13.560 trust is something we can build up over the long 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:16.640 haul of working together and knowing that the other person 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:19.160 is there for you. But you talk about some ways 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:21.240 that you can kind of build that trust more quickly, 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:23.200 like when a team is starting up. What are some 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:26.520 ways that we can quickly build trust with a colleague. 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:29.240 Well, one of the things that is I think really 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:31.920 fascinating is that trust is built on reciprocity, and so 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.320 the more trust you give, the more likely it is 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:36.720 to be reciprocated. Now, let's take a step back for 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:38.240 a second, because one of the things I do in 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:39.720 the book is I talk about what are the three 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:42.920 pillars of trust? What is trust actually founded on and trust, 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:44.600 by the way, just to define it for people, because 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:46.840 it tends to get fuzzy for a lot of folks 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.000 in terms of like the idea of trust gets thrown 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:52.199 around in leadership circles a lot. But what is the 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:55.200 actual definition of trust? Well, trust is being willing to 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:59.520 take on risk while still expecting a positive outcome. And 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:01.439 so if I trust you to do a good job 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:06.800 with this podcast, making myself vulnerable while still expecting the 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:10.720 podcast to sound great at the end. And in the 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:12.400 book I talk about what are the three pillars of 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.200 trust in the workplace? Because it does vary depending on 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:17.600 your role, So the things that define trust in a 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:21.640 working relationship aren't necessarily the same elements that define trust 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:24.480 with a doctor or with a neighbor. So at work 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.679 it comes down to three things. One is competence, how 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.280 well you do your job. The second thing is care. 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:32.839 The second pillar is caring how much do you care 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:36.800 about other people? And the third pillar is consistency how 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.880 predictable are your behaviors? And you need to have all three. 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.920 Any time one of these pillars is missing, trust tends 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:47.000 to degrade. And so, for example, you can have someone 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.000 who's really caring and really consistent. But if they do 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:52.880 a bad job, that trust is going to break down. 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:54.680 And so what it comes down to, I think is 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:57.920 identifying for any relationship where you're trying to build trust, 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:01.520 figure out where the opportunity these are for elevating any 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:02.960 of the pillars that may be weak. 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.960 And how can we turn a colleague into a friend? 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.720 So you know, obviously, when you like the members on 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:14.200 your team, this has all sorts of positive benefits, and 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.920 friendship is something that has developed. What can we do 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:18.400 to turn a colleague into a friend. 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:21.240 In the book, I talk about the psychology of friendships, 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:25.200 and there are some recent findings in the science of 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:27.240 friendships that I think are really interesting. One of them 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:31.160 is to assume your colleagues like you. Most of us 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:35.280 dramatically underestimate how well liked we are, and that leads 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:37.080 us to pull away and act in ways that make 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:40.520 us less likable. So, for example, if you're joining a 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:44.760 party and you assume people don't like you, you may 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:47.760 be slightly withdrawn or less likely to smile. But being 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:50.720 more extroverted and smiling more actually gets people to like 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:52.960 you more, and so it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:56.800 The second tip I discussed in the book is being 0:14:56.880 --> 0:15:00.320 really curious. People love to talk about themselves. The more 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.800 questions you asked, the more likable you tend to be 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:05.480 be viewed as. So I give the tip of think 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:08.440 less like a ted speaker and more like a podcast host. 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:11.960 Don't worry so much about impressing others, try to be impressed. 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:14.480 And the final thing, and this is taken from the 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:18.760 story of Scalia and Ginsburg, who famously diametrically opposed Supreme 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:21.480 Court judges, who ended up becoming best friends. How do 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:23.760 they become such great friends? It wasn't because they did 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:26.800 trust falls or icebreakers. It was because they found ways 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.280 to make each other better. And that's a real key, 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:32.640 is find ways to make other people succeed in their role. 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:36.120 In the case of Scalia, he was a grammatical savant 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:40.160 and he would improve Ginsburg's writing, and Ginsburg, in turn, 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:43.640 was really good at helping Scalia modulate the tone, the 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.880 emotional tone of his decisions not to alienate people. And 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:48.880 so in both cases they made each other better. 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:50.880 Love that all right, Well, We're going to take one 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:52.720 more quick ad break and I'll be back with more 0:15:52.760 --> 0:16:02.960 from Ron Friedman. Well, I am back talking with Ronen Friedman, 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:05.520 who is the author of the brand new book Super Teams. 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.040 So just a little bit more about the teams before 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:10.720 we get to your schedule. Ron, this is sort of 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:14.240 between you know, individual schedules and teams. You found that 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:18.200 members of super teams were more likely to exercise. Now 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:20.440 that seems a little bit unrelated, so maybe you could 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:21.480 explore that for us. 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:24.000 Yeah, A lot of times when we think about exercise, 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.920 we focus on our health. But one of the more 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:29.720 surprising findings in the last few decades is that exercise 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:32.760 also makes us smarter, and it's for some very concrete reasons. 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:37.080 When we exercise, we get more blood flowing to our brain, 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:40.280 which helps us sustain our attention and makes us less distractable. 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:43.800 It activates the memory reasons of the brain, so we 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:46.440 are able to soak up information more quickly and retrieve 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.920 it when we need it. And critically, exercise puts you 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:52.000 in a good mood, and when you're in a good mood, 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:55.119 you do everything better at work, including connecting with colleagues 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:59.840 and winning over new clients. And so exercise isn't some 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:02.080 something that makes us look good or feel good. It 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:04.680 actively makes us better at our jobs. And on super teams, 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:07.120 we find that they exercise more often. Members of super 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:10.159 teams tend to exercise for eighty four more minutes per week. 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:13.760 That's a lot. That's almost as many minutes as we 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:16.960 need to be exercising. Not quite, but it's getting there. 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:19.119 But is this something that people were I mean, this 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:21.160 was kind of more like people do before or after 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.520 work though, right, this doesn't necessarily like you know, they 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.440 go and go as a team to the gym over lunch. 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:29.360 That's right. In fact, one of the one of the 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:32.080 more fascinating findings in the research on super teams is 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:34.040 we looked at what are the amenities they have at 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:37.320 the office, and we look to see Arthur particular amenities 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:41.680 that make a team more effective. And among those amenities 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:45.560 that we tested were office gyms, and super teams were 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:48.440 not any more likely to have an office gym. In fact, 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:50.760 there were all these amenities in our study where you 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:54.080 included everything's like ping pong tables and collaborative spaces, and 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:56.639 the only office amenity that made a difference when it 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.520 came to team performance was having a quiet space to 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.919 do folks to work, and that says so much about 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.400 what people really want from their workplace, and it's why 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:07.879 so many people prefer to work from home. It's because 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:11.720 most offices are have become an attentional war zone. And 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:13.840 so if you're looking to lift up your team's performance, 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.560 create a focus based don't worry about the ping pong tables. 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:19.800 Yeah, less foosball more. Have people work from home twice 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.639 a week, that's probably a better management there. So Ron, 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.119 let's pivot to your schedule here. You know, this is 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:27.320 a show called Before Breakfast. Do you have any sort 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:28.160 of morning routine? 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:31.760 I walk my dogs and I listen to podcasts like 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:34.399 this one, and I find that Yeah, I find that 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:38.760 it really helps focus my attention on the big ideas 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:40.639 instead before I get lost in the minutia. 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:42.959 Yeah, is there a what does the rest of your 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.159 schedule look like? So you get up, you walk your dogs, 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:47.720 What does the work day tend to look like? From there? 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:48.879 The workday? 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:51.959 Well, here's a tip that I think some people might 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:55.080 benefit from. So I actually uhould to teach productivity courses, 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:57.160 and one of my favorite tips was to always make 0:18:57.240 --> 0:19:00.400 up your to do list the day before, but don't 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:02.280 worry about the order and which you're going to do things, 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:05.800 just kind of doing an information dump of all the 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:08.480 things that you are at the top of your on 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:10.520 the top of your mind. And once you've written that list, 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:12.359 I find it's much easier to disconnect. But then the 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:14.600 first thing I do after breakfast is I'll sort the 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:17.359 list in terms of what's most important to least important. 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:21.240 I use a question that helps orient me to what's 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:24.600 most important to me. So, for example, over the last 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:26.879 few months, I've been really focused on super teams, and 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:30.919 so the question I might ask is how important is 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:34.639