WEBVTT - Why are modern statues so bad? 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:03.600 Hey, everyone. This episode features a lot of discussion about statues, 0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:06.640 which are things that you can famously see but not here. 0:00:07.040 --> 0:00:09.000 Uh So, we have an image gallery on our substack 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:11.200 and our Instagram page. If you want to take a 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:13.399 look and follow along, you can just hit the links 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:15.640 in our show notes below. All Right, onto the show. 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:17.560 I'm Anny, I'm Noah. 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:19.880 This is Devin and this is no such thing. The 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:22.840 show where we settle ourdam arguments and yours by actually 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:26.520 doing the research on this week's episode, Why do new 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:27.800 statues look so bad? 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:36.920 No, there's no no such thing, no such thank no touch, 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:43.760 thank touch, thank no touch thank. 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:47.120 So. 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:50.879 Here's a topic that comes up every few months. There 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:53.400 will be an unveiling of a new sculpture celebrating an 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:59.200 iconic historical figure politician, entertainer, often an athlete recently, and 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:03.040 the statue just look horrible. It might look like a person, 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:06.399 but not that person. Proportions are off or even just 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:08.280 like it's kind of close but just strange. 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:11.199 Yeah, and it's tough because we all these are very 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:14.880 famous people. That's the bible we really know. We see 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:17.720 all the time, pretty recognizable exactly. 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:20.520 Speaking of which, on the screen here our listeners can't 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:22.320 see it, but of course there'll be on our newsletter. 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:25.720 Probably the most infamous one in recent memory, even though 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:28.399 it's from twenty seventeen, is the statue that we're looking 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:31.319 at of soccer star Christiano Ronaldo. 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:34.600 A very handsome man in real life, a real chad, yes, 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:38.160 And it was unveiled at Madeira Airport in Santa Cruz 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:39.920 when the airport was officially renamed. 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:43.160 I didn't know this part. It's the Christiano Ronaldo international level, 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:46.840 so it's a pretty big deal. It was like, all right, 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:48.280 he's you know, he's a legend. 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:49.000 Let's have a. 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:51.480 Lot of there's a Ronaldo Airport, but there's not a 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:52.280 messy airport. 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:56.000 You're going through the trouble of renaming the airport, and 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:58.920 then this is the statue that you make of so 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:02.200 very attracted His statue is one of the ugliest people 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:03.440 I've ever Just. 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:05.680 To make it clear for people who maybe don't watch 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:08.639 soccer Christiano Ronaldo. I think a lot of people consider 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:10.880 him one of the most attractive men on earth, and 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:13.880 then we've got this statue that kind of looks like 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:18.040 he's like sick. I think like he's got like something's wrong. 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:21.040 With him and he's fighting through it. He's like smiling through. 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:24.200 The so just from neckup. Yeah, you know, a full 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:24.720 body here. 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:30.200 What's the Danny Boyle movie with the drug addicts train Spotting? 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:32.399 Train spot He looks like one of the dudes from 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:35.240 train Spotting And yeah, like he was just on a bender, 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:38.000 you know, maybe he's gone through something withdrawal. 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:40.480 To me, it's like his eyes are slightly different size 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:43.480 in there, kind of slanted and then his mouth is 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:45.960 slanted in the opposite direction. 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:49.960 Yeah, they've introduced like wrinkles in the statue, like very 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.640 natural wrinkles when you when you make faces, that happens. 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:56.160 But they just look so bad here. And what always 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:59.720 gets me about these statues is like, I guess humans 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:04.560 have been making realistic statues for thousands of years, right, 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:08.160 I don't understand why in the in the past like 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:11.760 twenty years, we've just simply cannot come up with a 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:12.960 good bust of someone. 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:15.680 So this statue here has had a bit of a saga. 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.840 It was made by a sculptor, Emmanuel Santos. 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:20.000 Doing disservice to the name and yeah. 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:24.320 So yeah, you need to talk to your boy. So 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:26.880 everyone hated the statue kind of immediately as a total joke. 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:30.520 He was quoted by the BBC as saying that, you know, 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:32.560 making one of these is not as simple as it seems, 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:34.480 and it's a matter of. 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:36.240 Taste, a matter of taste. 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.040 And then he also said it is impossible to please 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:41.960 the Greeks and Trojans. Neither did Jesus please everyone. 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:45.200 He's comparing himself to Jesus. 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:50.440 You know what, I kind of respect that, you know statue, 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:54.000 the trials and tribulations of Jesus Christ. You know, I'll 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:57.360 respect that. Do a bad job, and then be like, 0:03:57.440 --> 0:03:59.800 well they also hated Jesus, you know who else was disrespected. 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:03.280 He did make a replacement that went up the following year. 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:05.720 This one looks more like a person. That one looks 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:10.280 like a cartoon almost. The new one just seems more simplistic. 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:12.080 The new version is like a passport photo. 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:15.920 Yes right, Yeah, it's a little bit more generic, but 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:20.280 I think in a good way. Yeah, or like it's safer, Yeah, 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:22.320 it feels safer. It's a good way. Put it so. 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:24.520 And there's a few more, and we'll talk about these later. 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:28.280 There was Martin Luther King in Winter Park, Florida, NBA's 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:29.680 Dwayne Wade outside the Mines. 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:33.559 That one is incredible because the meme of his son 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:37.000 giving him just like looking at him like, all right, 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:38.919 that's your statue. 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:40.719 And he basically had to pretend to like it. 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:41.159 Yeah. 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:44.960 Yeah, So he's quoted by ESPN, he said, is Dwayne Wade. 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:47.000 If I wanted to look like me, I'll just stand 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:49.760 outside the arena, y'all and take photos. You don't need 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:52.560 to look like me. It's an artistic version of a 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:54.440 moment that happened that we're trying to cement. 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:57.000 So we'll get into that one later, all right, don't 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:00.000 need to look like me about a statue. 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:00.839 He's being very nice. 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:04.040 I think he's defending the artist. 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:06.080 Maybe. I'm sure it was just a debacle. 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:11.560 And I'm personally invested in them getting this right because, 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:13.640 as much as I don't like to admit it, in 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:18.120 a few years, Lebron James is gonna retire. They're gonna 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:20.160 have to make a bust or a statue of him, 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:23.440 and if it's bad, I might fucking act out. But 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:25.839 they need to sort this out as soon as possible, 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:27.320 and I want to see it through. 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:29.000 Only Yeah, only for Lebron. 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:38.440 Yeah, I guess what I'm thinking here, Like why these 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:42.159 end up being so ugly so often is that sense 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:46.640 of a sculptor's artistic take on what the person looks like, 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:49.320 which is what Dwayne Wade was saying, which I kind 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:53.200 of agree with, which is like, if I'm commissioned to 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:56.040 make a statue of Noah, like we know what Noah 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:59.560 looks like, I might want to do something different with it. 0:05:59.880 --> 0:06:01.000 I don't know, shange it up. 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:03.200 I think what they need to understand, I think, at 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:05.920 least for these athletes, is that we just want it 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:08.400 to look exactly like it should be photo realistic, and 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:11.400 that's going to make us happy. The masses don't need 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:14.000 a you know, yeah, we don't need an artistic take 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:14.960 on what no it looks like. 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.880 See here's my issue with that. Okay, I'm okay with 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:23.479 them taking artistic licenses, but make it look good. Yeah, 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:26.520 you know. It's like what ends up happening is it 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:28.479 seems like they're just doing a bad job of like 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:31.039 making a photo realistic version of a person. And they're like, oh, 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:34.040 I'm just it's my interpretation. It's like, no, if you're 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:36.240 going to have a style, go for it. Make it 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:37.840 look completely different. 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:40.599 Because this doesn't look so different. It's not like a 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:42.120 full cartoon or exactly. 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:45.840 It's like, Okay, this is just like supposed to Yes. 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:49.080 I know you mentioned Martin Luther King and Florida. I 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:52.039 guess the MLK and DC is maybe a bit more 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:54.919 of like it's more of like an abstract take on it. 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:57.400 So I give a little bit more leeway to something 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:01.359 like that. But most of the feels like they're trying 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:03.760 to do the photo realistic thing and then feeling and 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:06.240 then being like, well, it was supposed to look bad. 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:10.320 That's my style. My styles, I make bad looking statues. 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:14.280 You know they hated Jesus too. That's the best excuse 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:15.000 I've ever heard. 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:17.160 Of my little It's also said because like you know, 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:21.040 we're not massive you know, contemporary sculpture heads. No, So 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:23.800 it's like all we know from this man now is this. Yeah, 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:26.880 by far gonna be the most seen statue that guy 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:27.360 ever makes. 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:30.440 Yep, But you know, give me, like do a cause, 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:32.320 you know, give me. I hate to cause stuff at 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:34.320 this point now, but like you know, you know, do 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:36.560 that sort of thing where it's like, hey, it is Ronaldo, 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:37.120 but it's. 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:38.720 Just like costs Yeah, he's doing what he wants. 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:40.960 Yeah, exactly like if you if they were to do that, 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.280 I'd be like, you know what, that's that's their take on. 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.560 Yeah, And I think like for a portrait, a painted portrait, 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:48.640 we're a lot more forgiving of that sort of stuff 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:50.320 just because there's a little bit more to play with it, 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.000 or like we're just more used to that. So I 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:54.840 want to find out why are these statues so bad? 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:55.480 Yeah? 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.720 That d Wade quote had me wondering, like are we 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:00.880 being unfair just because we do know these people? 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:02.200 Like you go to the. 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:04.560 Met there's all these beautiful statues, but they are like 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:07.400 mythical characters or something. They're not people that we actually 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.280 know or we know them by their statues. 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:10.880 Yes, not like introduction. 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:13.480 We haven't watched you know, thousands and thousands of hours 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:15.720 of this guy running around. Yeah you know. And then 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:20.920 also just like should statues be like super realistic or 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:24.000 should we be more up to more creative interpretations? And 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:27.200 just generally like our sculptors getting worse, Like is this 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:29.200 the lost art form? So after the break, I'll talk 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:41.960 to someone who actually knows what they're talking about, a sculptor. Oh, 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:44.720 so to understand why these public statues are so bad. 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:48.040 I caught up John Ballardo. He's not only a sculptor himself, 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:51.400 but he also teaches and serves as Lehman College's chief 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:54.599 College Laboratory Technician for art, and he instructs out a 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:58.000 few other art schools in the city. I mean, I 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:01.160 looked at his stuff, and he does like proper sculptures 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:03.559 of people. Things like that looked pretty good. Okay, he 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:06.440 hasn't done any you know, athletes, as far as I know, 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:09.840 So first I asked John to walk me through the 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:12.560 history of portrait sculptures. How far back do they go 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:13.800 and what's their original purpose. 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:23.600 The idea of an individual portrait, a likeness of an 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:27.160 individual is credited to the Romans, who it was part 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:31.040 of a pagan culture that they were doing life casts 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:34.800 or actually guest casts in wax of their family members, 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:37.840 this kind of patriarchal system, and it was part of 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:42.120 a ritual where they would pull these out during certain ceremonies, 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:46.080 and then of course as the culture grew, they would 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.280 take these deaths masks and actually carve them in marble. 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:53.520 The idea there was that these were revered individuals, and 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:57.280 so the likeness of them became very important, and that 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:01.120 included all the realism, which means all the wrinkles in 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:04.440 your face and everything that you can imagine in the 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:09.040 age of the individual, rather than a youthful, beautiful appearance. 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.880 So the idea of a death cast was the way 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:18.720 we would record more objective information about the portrait over time. 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:21.800 You know, you had those two things. You had, you know, 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.760 either some sort of a casting or you would have 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:29.320 the person directly in your studio. Michaelangelo famously never did 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:29.880 a portrait. 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:30.320 You know. 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:33.720 He you know, was asked many times, but he in 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:37.640 some ways he refused. And so the idea of a portraiture, 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:40.320 it's not always something that artists take on. 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.240 John got to what might be the key issue for 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:49.240 the modern sculptor, which we touched on earlier, is photography. 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:54.960 Photography changed everything because now the public generally knows what 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:59.720 the person looked like, you know, and that's important. Likeness 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:06.400 and liveliness or the living person underneath are our similar ideas. 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.600 But in a lot of ways, a person that you 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:12.400 don't know what they look like, as long as it 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:17.840 retained a certain liveliness, a certain naturalism, it didn't need 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:22.160 to obviously look exactly like the person, because eventually that's 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:25.360 what the person looked like and according to history. Obviously, 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:31.400 now we're dealing with more objective record of their image. 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:35.320 So there's something there to the fact that we actually 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:38.400 just know what these people are because they're contemporary to us, 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:41.360 so we've seen them in action and doing all this stuff. Yeah, 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.240 Michelangelo obviously a great sculptor. I didn't know he was like, 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:46.440 I'm not going to do any real portraits, which is 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:47.080 pretty amazing. 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:49.720 But yeah, I love that my boy knew his limits. 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:55.160 Yeah he I'll make an amazing David, but that's David. Yeah, yeah, 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:56.960 no last name exactly. 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:00.400 Don't ask me who he is. And maybe, you know, 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:04.040 no disrespect to our boy Manuel. Maybe maybe he should 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:06.560 have did the same, Maybe he should have opted out. 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:09.160 Actually I can't really, that's not for me. 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:12.400 He's like, I'll do a soccer player, Yes, an amazing 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:16.680 handsome soccer player, but it's not necessarily not handsome. 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:19.560 This one, the one he made, is not handsome handsome. 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:23.719 I can make a really kind of ugly dude and 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:24.560 may play soccer. 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:29.800 Boss. I got that sculpture for your real ugly, weird looking. 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:35.640 I wonder if Mike. The reason Michaelangelo refused to do 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:39.040 them was because they it is something you can grade essentially. 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:41.959 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it kind of I'm gonna look more 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:43.680 into that, but yeah, it seems like it where it's 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:46.359 like because like I think most of his work was commissioned. 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:49.240 It's like, you know, whoever these families or whatever. But 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:51.080 to just refuse to do that, it's like one leading 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:52.600 a lot a lot of money on the table. 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:52.800 For sure. 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.320 And he used to say that the statues we know 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:59.360 in love actually look like the people that they were 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:03.199 supposed to look. Yeah, exactly, yeah, find us but yeah no, yeah. 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:06.400 When when John said, you know, they look fine, because 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:08.600 that's now what they look like, Yeah, it's like, oh, 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:12.640 I don't mind blowing. And that's just how it was before, 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:15.560 you know, basically whatever one hundred and fifty years ago. 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.880 Well imagine if our boy David was actually like an 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:23.520 ugly dude. Oh yeah, and he's like, damn, that's me. 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:30.400 Yeah, he's just a really really rich, ugly y. He's like, listen, 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:32.680 I'm gonna treat you well. Just give me a nice sport, 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:34.719 nice statue here. This is gonna last for. 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.720 Like, don't look at me, look at that statue. That's 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:38.880 what I look like at my soul. 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:43.160 Yeah, here's how John describes the process and considerations with 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:44.000 a project like this. 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:48.960 If it's from life, then the person really should be 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:54.040 in the studio with you, but that's not always possible. 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:59.839 So we often at this point work from photography, which 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.160 is a blessing and a curse. So let's set up 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:07.679 a space where we can start working from photography. In 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:11.840 the case of many people that would deserve a portrait 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:16.679 in the public, it would be something that there's a 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:21.280 ton of photography over the course of many years, so 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:24.000 you would have to be very careful about the photographs 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:27.080 you are using, and certainly the more the better, but 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:31.000 also an understanding of how those photographs were taken, from 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:35.560 what distance, from what lighting source, and then whether or 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:39.120 not you can trust the measurements from them. All portraiture 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:43.120 or all likeness comes from proportions, believe it or not, 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:46.640 like the distance between your eyes and compared to your 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:50.480 size of your nose. But that's easy when you're doing 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:53.840 a painted portrait because it's two dimensional. And not to 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.760 say anything negative about painters, but sculpture is way more 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:03.280 difficult because now we're talking about the depths of form 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:07.280 rather not just heightened with and then from there you're 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:11.920 relying on several things that hopefully you've educated yourself on. 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:17.160 The first thing would be anatomy, what are the likely 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:22.040 formations on the human head that arise from bone structure, 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:26.640 muscle structure. And then you would also take information from 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:29.600 your own memory and your own imagination in order to 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:34.120 work from the portraits that you've done from life, so 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:38.440 that the information has to be both empirical as well 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:42.840 as rational, as well as just outside sources. And then 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:45.840 it ultimately comes down to trial and error adding and 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:55.520 subtracting clay. Something that people don't always consider is color. 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.880 The color of your eyebrow, the color of your eyes, 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:01.320 the color of your hair, the color of your pupils, 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:06.240 and the color of your lips, everything, And so how 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:09.720 do you do that with clay? That's one color? So 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:14.800 you're usually dealing with what's called a color, that is 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.400 this relief quality that has to do with the way 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:23.040 light sweeps across a surface, gaining light and shadow in 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:26.160 order to create this kind of black and white or 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:31.040 gray scale structure across that and of course you have 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:33.320 to be able to control that, even though you can't 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:37.840 ever control the lighting in an outdoor where you need 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.400 to be able to control it enough where those things 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:45.760 aren't going to destroy it. 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:49.520 It's a really interesting point about the color because I'm 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:52.240 looking at the Ronaldo statue again, and I do wonder 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:55.240 if it were like painted to look to be like 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:57.800 his skin color and his lip color and his hair color, 0:16:58.080 --> 0:16:59.720 like how much more realistic it would look. 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.880 And it being this dark bronze. And then I'm assuming 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:05.160 this is probably camera flash, but also just even sunlight 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:07.920 the way it reflects so strong, like these highlights are 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:10.199 kind of glaring. Yeah, it doesn't do him any favors. 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:13.320 It looks like it looks like Rinaldo did blackface or something. 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:15.000 And then they made a statue of him, and just 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.760 it just I wonder if it looked to put that on. 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:20.879 All right, we'll cut that out. But it's just like 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:23.560 such a weird it is. It's tough to kind of 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:27.000 parse this out as a real human being when it's 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:27.720 just bronze, like. 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:29.399 Yeah, or even if it was like a like a 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:33.439 classical marble or something, you know, and you know, yeah, 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:35.560 he tells a good story about the Lincoln memorial, and 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.920 once the statue was placed in the monument, the lighting 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:40.800 was really off and like kind of spooky, like it 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:43.879 was like under lighting him. And this is like, you know, 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:45.840 the two artists, the sculptor and the architect, were like 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:48.199 two legends of the game, like at the peak of 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:50.159 their powers, and like even they messed that up and 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:52.359 had to like they made some adjustments to the monument 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:53.640 so the light would work better. 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:56.320 But it's like, ultimately, there. 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:57.960 Are so many different things, especially when it's gonna be outside, 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:00.800 that I certainly hadn't really considered, even aside from just 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:04.560 the difficulty of making a three D sculpture to. 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.399 Begin with, Yeah, the environment is going to be in it, 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:12.520 so important. Proportion really interesting when you think about photographs, 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:14.880 you know, if you photograph one person in the same 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:20.000 room with different lenses, Yeah, portly changed so dramatically. So yeah, 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.440 that wasn't something I considered. You know when you're looking 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:24.919 at these photographs, is that like, yeah, you may start 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:28.399 with one proportion and then you got to realize, like, okay, 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:30.000 you got to take kind of the averages of all 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:33.520 these things, because you know, just the front facing proportion 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:36.080 may not look the same from a point five versus 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:36.400 you know. 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:40.040 One thirty five or something wider. Your face is like 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.520 way more pointed. Okay, yeah, but if it's the twenty 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:47.080 four millimeters lens, it's like your face is way more flat. Yeap, 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:49.560 that's like when the camera adds ten pounds espectually. 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:50.160 Yeah. 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:58.280 So after getting insight on kind of how hard it 0:18:58.320 --> 0:18:59.960 is to make a statue and what they're thinking about, 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:02.679 I ask kind of the big question, our sculpture is 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:05.359 getting worse or are we just more knowledgeable about what 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:07.040 these subjects actually look like. 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:11.119 It's the latter, we know these people more over time. 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:14.560 There's a thousand things you're dealing with with a modern portrait. 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:18.240 You know. The first thing is the recognizability of the person. 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.680 We had talked earlier about photography, but now it's also 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:28.640 video and particularly sports figures. They are recognizable in action, right, 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:32.920 and so sculpture tends to be pretty static, right, So 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:36.320 now we have to deal with that energy. And so 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:40.520 how do you bring in energy into a portrait as 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:43.960 well as a likeness as well as liveliness and hit 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:46.520 it dead on? It is the sort of thing that 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:52.639 humans are very sensitive to, very sensitive to recognizability. We 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:54.920 can recognize our friends from down the street by the 0:19:54.960 --> 0:20:02.160 way they're walking. The other thing that happens is that 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:08.439 art schools have not adequately trained sculptors over the past 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:13.960 fifty years, and so a sculptor who goes through a 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:20.199 normal education in America is not given any of the 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:24.840 adequate training in anatomy and modeling, and a lot of 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:29.280 artists don't realize that before they take on this very 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:35.400 important responsibility. Artists nowadays are trained to express themselves and 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:38.760 to be the center of attention, and to think of 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:44.080 their work as ephemeral and yet freewheeling, where a sculpture, 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:49.080 particularly of somebody as important as MLK, has to speak 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:52.879 to the past before you were born you as an artist, 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:58.920 and will retain its meaning after you're dead. So now 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:03.520 we are talking about something very important, and it's now 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:07.119 no longer about the artist. So the training of an 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:13.760 artist just goes counter to that. The first thing that 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:17.520 I saw with when I saw Ronaldo was maybe this 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:20.720 artist was trained more as an anime or they draw 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:25.680 on cartoons, you know, and that's unfortunately considered to be 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:30.360 a good training for the things that they're asking to do. 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:34.200 It needs to be about the individual you're portraying, and 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:38.680 the most important thing you can do is show respect 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:43.680 to that image. You're showing respect to what the public 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:49.119 thinks of that individual, what that individual has represented, and 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:52.000