1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: Hey, everyone. This episode features a lot of discussion about statues, 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: which are things that you can famously see but not here. 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: Uh So, we have an image gallery on our substack 4 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: and our Instagram page. If you want to take a 5 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,399 Speaker 1: look and follow along, you can just hit the links 6 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: in our show notes below. All Right, onto the show. 7 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 2: I'm Anny, I'm Noah. 8 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: This is Devin and this is no such thing. The 9 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: show where we settle ourdam arguments and yours by actually 10 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: doing the research on this week's episode, Why do new 11 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: statues look so bad? 12 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 2: No, there's no no such thing, no such thank no touch, 13 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 2: thank touch, thank no touch thank. 14 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 3: So. 15 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: Here's a topic that comes up every few months. There 16 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: will be an unveiling of a new sculpture celebrating an 17 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: iconic historical figure politician, entertainer, often an athlete recently, and 18 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: the statue just look horrible. It might look like a person, 19 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: but not that person. Proportions are off or even just 20 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: like it's kind of close but just strange. 21 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,199 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's tough because we all these are very 22 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 3: famous people. That's the bible we really know. We see 23 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 3: all the time, pretty recognizable exactly. 24 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: Speaking of which, on the screen here our listeners can't 25 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 1: see it, but of course there'll be on our newsletter. 26 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: Probably the most infamous one in recent memory, even though 27 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 1: it's from twenty seventeen, is the statue that we're looking 28 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: at of soccer star Christiano Ronaldo. 29 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 3: A very handsome man in real life, a real chad, yes, 30 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 3: And it was unveiled at Madeira Airport in Santa Cruz 31 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 3: when the airport was officially renamed. 32 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: I didn't know this part. It's the Christiano Ronaldo international level, 33 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: so it's a pretty big deal. It was like, all right, 34 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: he's you know, he's a legend. 35 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 3: Let's have a. 36 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 2: Lot of there's a Ronaldo Airport, but there's not a 37 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: messy airport. 38 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 3: You're going through the trouble of renaming the airport, and 39 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 3: then this is the statue that you make of so 40 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 3: very attracted His statue is one of the ugliest people 41 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 3: I've ever Just. 42 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 2: To make it clear for people who maybe don't watch 43 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 2: soccer Christiano Ronaldo. I think a lot of people consider 44 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 2: him one of the most attractive men on earth, and 45 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 2: then we've got this statue that kind of looks like 46 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 2: he's like sick. I think like he's got like something's wrong. 47 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 2: With him and he's fighting through it. He's like smiling through. 48 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: The so just from neckup. Yeah, you know, a full 49 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: body here. 50 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 3: What's the Danny Boyle movie with the drug addicts train Spotting? 51 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,399 Speaker 3: Train spot He looks like one of the dudes from 52 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 3: train Spotting And yeah, like he was just on a bender, 53 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 3: you know, maybe he's gone through something withdrawal. 54 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: To me, it's like his eyes are slightly different size 55 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: in there, kind of slanted and then his mouth is 56 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: slanted in the opposite direction. 57 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, they've introduced like wrinkles in the statue, like very 58 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 2: natural wrinkles when you when you make faces, that happens. 59 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 2: But they just look so bad here. And what always 60 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 2: gets me about these statues is like, I guess humans 61 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 2: have been making realistic statues for thousands of years, right, 62 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 2: I don't understand why in the in the past like 63 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: twenty years, we've just simply cannot come up with a 64 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 2: good bust of someone. 65 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: So this statue here has had a bit of a saga. 66 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: It was made by a sculptor, Emmanuel Santos. 67 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 2: Doing disservice to the name and yeah. 68 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: So yeah, you need to talk to your boy. So 69 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: everyone hated the statue kind of immediately as a total joke. 70 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: He was quoted by the BBC as saying that, you know, 71 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: making one of these is not as simple as it seems, 72 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: and it's a matter of. 73 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 3: Taste, a matter of taste. 74 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: And then he also said it is impossible to please 75 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: the Greeks and Trojans. Neither did Jesus please everyone. 76 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 2: He's comparing himself to Jesus. 77 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 3: You know what, I kind of respect that, you know statue, 78 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 3: the trials and tribulations of Jesus Christ. You know, I'll 79 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 3: respect that. Do a bad job, and then be like, 80 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 3: well they also hated Jesus, you know who else was disrespected. 81 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: He did make a replacement that went up the following year. 82 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 3: This one looks more like a person. That one looks 83 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 3: like a cartoon almost. The new one just seems more simplistic. 84 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: The new version is like a passport photo. 85 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 3: Yes right, Yeah, it's a little bit more generic, but 86 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 3: I think in a good way. Yeah, or like it's safer, Yeah, 87 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 3: it feels safer. It's a good way. Put it so. 88 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: And there's a few more, and we'll talk about these later. 89 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 1: There was Martin Luther King in Winter Park, Florida, NBA's 90 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: Dwayne Wade outside the Mines. 91 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,559 Speaker 3: That one is incredible because the meme of his son 92 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 3: giving him just like looking at him like, all right, 93 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 3: that's your statue. 94 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 2: And he basically had to pretend to like it. 95 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 3: Yeah. 96 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, So he's quoted by ESPN, he said, is Dwayne Wade. 97 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 2: If I wanted to look like me, I'll just stand 98 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 2: outside the arena, y'all and take photos. You don't need 99 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 2: to look like me. It's an artistic version of a 100 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 2: moment that happened that we're trying to cement. 101 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 3: So we'll get into that one later, all right, don't 102 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 3: need to look like me about a statue. 103 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 1: He's being very nice. 104 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 2: I think he's defending the artist. 105 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: Maybe. I'm sure it was just a debacle. 106 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: And I'm personally invested in them getting this right because, 107 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 2: as much as I don't like to admit it, in 108 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 2: a few years, Lebron James is gonna retire. They're gonna 109 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 2: have to make a bust or a statue of him, 110 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 2: and if it's bad, I might fucking act out. But 111 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 2: they need to sort this out as soon as possible, 112 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 2: and I want to see it through. 113 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: Only Yeah, only for Lebron. 114 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess what I'm thinking here, Like why these 115 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 2: end up being so ugly so often is that sense 116 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 2: of a sculptor's artistic take on what the person looks like, 117 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 2: which is what Dwayne Wade was saying, which I kind 118 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 2: of agree with, which is like, if I'm commissioned to 119 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 2: make a statue of Noah, like we know what Noah 120 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 2: looks like, I might want to do something different with it. 121 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: I don't know, shange it up. 122 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 2: I think what they need to understand, I think, at 123 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 2: least for these athletes, is that we just want it 124 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 2: to look exactly like it should be photo realistic, and 125 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: that's going to make us happy. The masses don't need 126 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 2: a you know, yeah, we don't need an artistic take 127 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 2: on what no it looks like. 128 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 3: See here's my issue with that. Okay, I'm okay with 129 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 3: them taking artistic licenses, but make it look good. Yeah, 130 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 3: you know. It's like what ends up happening is it 131 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 3: seems like they're just doing a bad job of like 132 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 3: making a photo realistic version of a person. And they're like, oh, 133 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 3: I'm just it's my interpretation. It's like, no, if you're 134 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 3: going to have a style, go for it. Make it 135 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 3: look completely different. 136 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: Because this doesn't look so different. It's not like a 137 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: full cartoon or exactly. 138 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 2: It's like, Okay, this is just like supposed to Yes. 139 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 3: I know you mentioned Martin Luther King and Florida. I 140 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 3: guess the MLK and DC is maybe a bit more 141 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,919 Speaker 3: of like it's more of like an abstract take on it. 142 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 3: So I give a little bit more leeway to something 143 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:01,359 Speaker 3: like that. But most of the feels like they're trying 144 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 3: to do the photo realistic thing and then feeling and 145 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 3: then being like, well, it was supposed to look bad. 146 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 3: That's my style. My styles, I make bad looking statues. 147 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 2: You know they hated Jesus too. That's the best excuse 148 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 2: I've ever heard. 149 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: Of my little It's also said because like you know, 150 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: we're not massive you know, contemporary sculpture heads. No, So 151 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: it's like all we know from this man now is this. Yeah, 152 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: by far gonna be the most seen statue that guy 153 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: ever makes. 154 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 3: Yep, But you know, give me, like do a cause, 155 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 3: you know, give me. I hate to cause stuff at 156 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 3: this point now, but like you know, you know, do 157 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 3: that sort of thing where it's like, hey, it is Ronaldo, 158 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 3: but it's. 159 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: Just like costs Yeah, he's doing what he wants. 160 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly like if you if they were to do that, 161 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 3: I'd be like, you know what, that's that's their take on. 162 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think like for a portrait, a painted portrait, 163 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: we're a lot more forgiving of that sort of stuff 164 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: just because there's a little bit more to play with it, 165 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: or like we're just more used to that. So I 166 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: want to find out why are these statues so bad? 167 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 3: Yeah? 168 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: That d Wade quote had me wondering, like are we 169 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: being unfair just because we do know these people? 170 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 3: Like you go to the. 171 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: Met there's all these beautiful statues, but they are like 172 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: mythical characters or something. They're not people that we actually 173 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: know or we know them by their statues. 174 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 3: Yes, not like introduction. 175 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: We haven't watched you know, thousands and thousands of hours 176 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: of this guy running around. Yeah you know. And then 177 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: also just like should statues be like super realistic or 178 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: should we be more up to more creative interpretations? And 179 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: just generally like our sculptors getting worse, Like is this 180 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: the lost art form? So after the break, I'll talk 181 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: to someone who actually knows what they're talking about, a sculptor. Oh, 182 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: so to understand why these public statues are so bad. 183 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: I caught up John Ballardo. He's not only a sculptor himself, 184 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: but he also teaches and serves as Lehman College's chief 185 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,599 Speaker 1: College Laboratory Technician for art, and he instructs out a 186 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: few other art schools in the city. I mean, I 187 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: looked at his stuff, and he does like proper sculptures 188 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 1: of people. Things like that looked pretty good. Okay, he 189 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: hasn't done any you know, athletes, as far as I know, 190 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: So first I asked John to walk me through the 191 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: history of portrait sculptures. How far back do they go 192 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: and what's their original purpose. 193 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 4: The idea of an individual portrait, a likeness of an 194 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 4: individual is credited to the Romans, who it was part 195 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 4: of a pagan culture that they were doing life casts 196 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 4: or actually guest casts in wax of their family members, 197 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 4: this kind of patriarchal system, and it was part of 198 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 4: a ritual where they would pull these out during certain ceremonies, 199 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 4: and then of course as the culture grew, they would 200 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 4: take these deaths masks and actually carve them in marble. 201 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 4: The idea there was that these were revered individuals, and 202 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 4: so the likeness of them became very important, and that 203 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 4: included all the realism, which means all the wrinkles in 204 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 4: your face and everything that you can imagine in the 205 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 4: age of the individual, rather than a youthful, beautiful appearance. 206 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 4: So the idea of a death cast was the way 207 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 4: we would record more objective information about the portrait over time. 208 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 4: You know, you had those two things. You had, you know, 209 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 4: either some sort of a casting or you would have 210 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 4: the person directly in your studio. Michaelangelo famously never did 211 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 4: a portrait. 212 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 3: You know. 213 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 4: He you know, was asked many times, but he in 214 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 4: some ways he refused. And so the idea of a portraiture, 215 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 4: it's not always something that artists take on. 216 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: John got to what might be the key issue for 217 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: the modern sculptor, which we touched on earlier, is photography. 218 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 4: Photography changed everything because now the public generally knows what 219 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 4: the person looked like, you know, and that's important. Likeness 220 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 4: and liveliness or the living person underneath are our similar ideas. 221 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 4: But in a lot of ways, a person that you 222 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 4: don't know what they look like, as long as it 223 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 4: retained a certain liveliness, a certain naturalism, it didn't need 224 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 4: to obviously look exactly like the person, because eventually that's 225 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 4: what the person looked like and according to history. Obviously, 226 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 4: now we're dealing with more objective record of their image. 227 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: So there's something there to the fact that we actually 228 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: just know what these people are because they're contemporary to us, 229 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: so we've seen them in action and doing all this stuff. Yeah, 230 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: Michelangelo obviously a great sculptor. I didn't know he was like, 231 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: I'm not going to do any real portraits, which is 232 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: pretty amazing. 233 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 3: But yeah, I love that my boy knew his limits. 234 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: Yeah he I'll make an amazing David, but that's David. Yeah, yeah, 235 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: no last name exactly. 236 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 3: Don't ask me who he is. And maybe, you know, 237 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 3: no disrespect to our boy Manuel. Maybe maybe he should 238 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 3: have did the same, Maybe he should have opted out. 239 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 3: Actually I can't really, that's not for me. 240 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: He's like, I'll do a soccer player, Yes, an amazing 241 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 1: handsome soccer player, but it's not necessarily not handsome. 242 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 3: This one, the one he made, is not handsome handsome. 243 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,719 Speaker 3: I can make a really kind of ugly dude and 244 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 3: may play soccer. 245 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: Boss. I got that sculpture for your real ugly, weird looking. 246 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 2: I wonder if Mike. The reason Michaelangelo refused to do 247 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 2: them was because they it is something you can grade essentially. 248 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it kind of I'm gonna look more 249 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: into that, but yeah, it seems like it where it's 250 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,359 Speaker 1: like because like I think most of his work was commissioned. 251 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, whoever these families or whatever. But 252 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: to just refuse to do that, it's like one leading 253 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: a lot a lot of money on the table. 254 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 3: For sure. 255 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 2: And he used to say that the statues we know 256 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 2: in love actually look like the people that they were 257 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 2: supposed to look. Yeah, exactly, yeah, find us but yeah no, yeah. 258 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: When when John said, you know, they look fine, because 259 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: that's now what they look like, Yeah, it's like, oh, 260 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: I don't mind blowing. And that's just how it was before, 261 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: you know, basically whatever one hundred and fifty years ago. 262 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 3: Well imagine if our boy David was actually like an 263 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 3: ugly dude. Oh yeah, and he's like, damn, that's me. 264 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's just a really really rich, ugly y. He's like, listen, 265 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna treat you well. Just give me a nice sport, 266 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:34,719 Speaker 1: nice statue here. This is gonna last for. 267 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 3: Like, don't look at me, look at that statue. That's 268 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 3: what I look like at my soul. 269 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, here's how John describes the process and considerations with 270 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: a project like this. 271 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 4: If it's from life, then the person really should be 272 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 4: in the studio with you, but that's not always possible. 273 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:59,839 Speaker 4: So we often at this point work from photography, which 274 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 4: is a blessing and a curse. So let's set up 275 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,679 Speaker 4: a space where we can start working from photography. In 276 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 4: the case of many people that would deserve a portrait 277 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 4: in the public, it would be something that there's a 278 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 4: ton of photography over the course of many years, so 279 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 4: you would have to be very careful about the photographs 280 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 4: you are using, and certainly the more the better, but 281 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 4: also an understanding of how those photographs were taken, from 282 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 4: what distance, from what lighting source, and then whether or 283 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 4: not you can trust the measurements from them. All portraiture 284 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 4: or all likeness comes from proportions, believe it or not, 285 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 4: like the distance between your eyes and compared to your 286 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 4: size of your nose. But that's easy when you're doing 287 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 4: a painted portrait because it's two dimensional. And not to 288 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 4: say anything negative about painters, but sculpture is way more 289 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 4: difficult because now we're talking about the depths of form 290 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 4: rather not just heightened with and then from there you're 291 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 4: relying on several things that hopefully you've educated yourself on. 292 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 4: The first thing would be anatomy, what are the likely 293 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 4: formations on the human head that arise from bone structure, 294 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 4: muscle structure. And then you would also take information from 295 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 4: your own memory and your own imagination in order to 296 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 4: work from the portraits that you've done from life, so 297 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 4: that the information has to be both empirical as well 298 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 4: as rational, as well as just outside sources. And then 299 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 4: it ultimately comes down to trial and error adding and 300 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 4: subtracting clay. Something that people don't always consider is color. 301 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 4: The color of your eyebrow, the color of your eyes, 302 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 4: the color of your hair, the color of your pupils, 303 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 4: and the color of your lips, everything, And so how 304 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 4: do you do that with clay? That's one color? So 305 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 4: you're usually dealing with what's called a color, that is 306 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 4: this relief quality that has to do with the way 307 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 4: light sweeps across a surface, gaining light and shadow in 308 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 4: order to create this kind of black and white or 309 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 4: gray scale structure across that and of course you have 310 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 4: to be able to control that, even though you can't 311 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 4: ever control the lighting in an outdoor where you need 312 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 4: to be able to control it enough where those things 313 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 4: aren't going to destroy it. 314 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 2: It's a really interesting point about the color because I'm 315 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 2: looking at the Ronaldo statue again, and I do wonder 316 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 2: if it were like painted to look to be like 317 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 2: his skin color and his lip color and his hair color, 318 00:16:58,080 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 2: like how much more realistic it would look. 319 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: And it being this dark bronze. And then I'm assuming 320 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: this is probably camera flash, but also just even sunlight 321 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: the way it reflects so strong, like these highlights are 322 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,199 Speaker 1: kind of glaring. Yeah, it doesn't do him any favors. 323 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 2: It looks like it looks like Rinaldo did blackface or something. 324 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 2: And then they made a statue of him, and just 325 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 2: it just I wonder if it looked to put that on. 326 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 2: All right, we'll cut that out. But it's just like 327 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 2: such a weird it is. It's tough to kind of 328 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 2: parse this out as a real human being when it's 329 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 2: just bronze, like. 330 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, or even if it was like a like a 331 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 1: classical marble or something, you know, and you know, yeah, 332 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: he tells a good story about the Lincoln memorial, and 333 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 1: once the statue was placed in the monument, the lighting 334 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: was really off and like kind of spooky, like it 335 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 1: was like under lighting him. And this is like, you know, 336 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: the two artists, the sculptor and the architect, were like 337 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,199 Speaker 1: two legends of the game, like at the peak of 338 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 1: their powers, and like even they messed that up and 339 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 1: had to like they made some adjustments to the monument 340 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 1: so the light would work better. 341 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 2: But it's like, ultimately, there. 342 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: Are so many different things, especially when it's gonna be outside, 343 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: that I certainly hadn't really considered, even aside from just 344 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: the difficulty of making a three D sculpture to. 345 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 3: Begin with, Yeah, the environment is going to be in it, 346 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 3: so important. Proportion really interesting when you think about photographs, 347 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,880 Speaker 3: you know, if you photograph one person in the same 348 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 3: room with different lenses, Yeah, portly changed so dramatically. So yeah, 349 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 3: that wasn't something I considered. You know when you're looking 350 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 3: at these photographs, is that like, yeah, you may start 351 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 3: with one proportion and then you got to realize, like, okay, 352 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 3: you got to take kind of the averages of all 353 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 3: these things, because you know, just the front facing proportion 354 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 3: may not look the same from a point five versus 355 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:36,400 Speaker 3: you know. 356 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 2: One thirty five or something wider. Your face is like 357 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 2: way more pointed. Okay, yeah, but if it's the twenty 358 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 2: four millimeters lens, it's like your face is way more flat. Yeap, 359 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 2: that's like when the camera adds ten pounds espectually. 360 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 3: Yeah. 361 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: So after getting insight on kind of how hard it 362 00:18:58,320 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: is to make a statue and what they're thinking about, 363 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 1: I ask kind of the big question, our sculpture is 364 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: getting worse or are we just more knowledgeable about what 365 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: these subjects actually look like. 366 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 4: It's the latter, we know these people more over time. 367 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 4: There's a thousand things you're dealing with with a modern portrait. 368 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 4: You know. The first thing is the recognizability of the person. 369 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 4: We had talked earlier about photography, but now it's also 370 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 4: video and particularly sports figures. They are recognizable in action, right, 371 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 4: and so sculpture tends to be pretty static, right, So 372 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 4: now we have to deal with that energy. And so 373 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 4: how do you bring in energy into a portrait as 374 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 4: well as a likeness as well as liveliness and hit 375 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 4: it dead on? It is the sort of thing that 376 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 4: humans are very sensitive to, very sensitive to recognizability. We 377 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 4: can recognize our friends from down the street by the 378 00:19:54,960 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 4: way they're walking. The other thing that happens is that 379 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 4: art schools have not adequately trained sculptors over the past 380 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 4: fifty years, and so a sculptor who goes through a 381 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:20,199 Speaker 4: normal education in America is not given any of the 382 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 4: adequate training in anatomy and modeling, and a lot of 383 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 4: artists don't realize that before they take on this very 384 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 4: important responsibility. Artists nowadays are trained to express themselves and 385 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 4: to be the center of attention, and to think of 386 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 4: their work as ephemeral and yet freewheeling, where a sculpture, 387 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 4: particularly of somebody as important as MLK, has to speak 388 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 4: to the past before you were born you as an artist, 389 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 4: and will retain its meaning after you're dead. So now 390 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 4: we are talking about something very important, and it's now 391 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 4: no longer about the artist. So the training of an 392 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 4: artist just goes counter to that. The first thing that 393 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 4: I saw with when I saw Ronaldo was maybe this 394 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 4: artist was trained more as an anime or they draw 395 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 4: on cartoons, you know, and that's unfortunately considered to be 396 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:30,360 Speaker 4: a good training for the things that they're asking to do. 397 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 4: It needs to be about the individual you're portraying, and 398 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 4: the most important thing you can do is show respect 399 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 4: to that image. You're showing respect to what the public 400 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 4: thinks of that individual, what that individual has represented, and 401 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 4: the first thing they represented this image. So if you 402 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 4: show respect to a likeness, then you're showing respect to 403 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 4: what that person has done their entire career. 404 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: One thing that really stuck out was kind of talking 405 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: about the training where and it makes sense when you 406 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: think about it. You say you really like painting, you 407 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: go to school. It's the idea is like you're painting 408 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: your own stuff, like whatever you want. And that's pretty 409 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: different than you know, the days of Michelangelo or wherever 410 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: where Okay, they're hired to paint the ceiling and then 411 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 1: you do that, and that's it's not really about you. 412 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: Obviously there's gonna be things you put in there right 413 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: as a great artist or whatever. But so kind of 414 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 1: in these situations, they're kind of trapped because you're you're 415 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: trained to do your own thing, and now the expectations 416 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: totally kind of flipped in a way. Even if you studied, 417 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 1: you know, representation on all these things, so you know, 418 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: you feel for these guys a little bit. That they 419 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 1: maybe were set up a little bit out of there. 420 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: So after that I ran a few of these sculptures 421 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: by John. I want to go to the Duwayne Wade statue. 422 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: Go to no such thing dot Show for the you 423 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: know to see these images. So on the bottom left, 424 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: that's the image that's being recreated. You see a you know, 425 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 1: closer up detail of the statue there. Man, why don't 426 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: you describe what's happening here in the original photo. 427 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 2: In the original photo, I don't know. Dwayne Wade must 428 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 2: have hit a three or something. 429 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 3: They did. 430 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 2: They did a good job doing something specific, and he's 431 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 2: kind of he's amped up, he's yelling, he's hyping up 432 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 2: the crowd, and so he's in a position that's like 433 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 2: I think maybe he's doing a this is our house, yeah, 434 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 2: something like he's pointing towards the ground saying, you know, 435 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 2: this is our this is our spot, and in the 436 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 2: statue you know it. For whatever reason, he they look 437 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 2: like they just aged him by like thirty years, Like 438 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,199 Speaker 2: he just looks like a really old man. This may 439 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 2: be the coloring sort of thing too, isn't helping because 440 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 2: Dwayne Wade in this photo is relatively young. Like that 441 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 2: was a long time ago. Yeah, he's probably late twenties 442 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 2: or something in this photo and in the statue, I 443 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,679 Speaker 2: don't know. It just is like I don't understand the 444 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 2: aging aspect here. They've also seemed to do like the 445 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 2: statue version of his fade haircut, which yeah, a statue 446 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 2: just makes it look like he only has like a 447 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 2: tiny little bit of hair. It's tough to do a 448 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 2: fade in like bronze or whatever. 449 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 3: He looks like the zombies from Iron Legends. 450 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he looks so gaunt. I think, yes, 451 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: and d Wade is like, you know, pretty good looking guy, 452 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: but he had and he has like he. 453 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 2: Has like cheeks, he's got like yeah. 454 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: He's not chubby by any means obviously, but his face 455 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: has like yes, I mean he looks good, but yeah, 456 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: it's like you can see a smile in the photo 457 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,719 Speaker 1: with the statue, It's like, yeah, it just looks pretty 458 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: different than this man in the sculpture. 459 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 2: Now, this is a This is an instance where with 460 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 2: the Ronaldo statue you can tell that there was an 461 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 2: attempt to make it look like Christiano Ronaldo and it 462 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 2: just went wrong. This looks like a different person. This 463 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 2: doesn't look similar to this. 464 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: They're like, all right, here's the post we want and 465 00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: put him into Miami Jersey. Yeah, it doesn't really look 466 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: like it's based on Wade, excepting the fact that he's 467 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: a you know, athletically built and wearing Yeah yeah, but yeah, Like, 468 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: if you just showed me that face, especially without Miami 469 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: on the I wouldn't even think that's ay. 470 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 2: It's like a civil rights what is happening here? 471 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 4: So the Duyane Wade portrait, So not only do you 472 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 4: have movement, you have energy, you have you know, you're 473 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 4: trying to deal with likeness and the proportions, but now 474 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 4: on top of it, expression with the mouth open. This 475 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,159 Speaker 4: is something that happens all the time. A commissioner or 476 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 4: somebody who is paying for this will say, we want 477 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 4: the individual to have this expression or we want it 478 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 4: to be referring to this photograph. A smile is actually 479 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 4: one of the most difficult things in the world to 480 00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 4: capture an expression like this, and he has this great, 481 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 4: you know, grin and this excited yell. This is one 482 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 4: moment in time. It's kind of like, you know, you 483 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,959 Speaker 4: take a bad candid photo and you know you have 484 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 4: this weird expression on your face because you know you're 485 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 4: in the middle of talking like this, and that doesn't 486 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 4: look like you. But it's like this, this odd little shape, 487 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 4: you know, And so that's I think what's happening here. 488 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 4: A sculpture unfolds over time, so people interact with it 489 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 4: as if they come up to it and they see 490 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 4: it and they move past it, and now it's a 491 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 4: it's a three dimensional image that that's exposed to the 492 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 4: viewer over time. And to try to capture this snapshot 493 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 4: instant of time and a sculpture is extraordinarily difficult. And 494 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 4: so what's happening there is I think it has more 495 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 4: to do with our of it, our perception, this juxtaposition, 496 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 4: or this jarring experience of looking at this static sculpture 497 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 4: with this highly energetic expression. I think that's really what 498 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 4: it is. When his mouth is open, that changes the 499 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 4: way he squints with his eyes, and so that's that's 500 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 4: you're not going to recognize the person like that. You 501 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 4: don't recognize people in that state, but you could recognize 502 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 4: them if you saw them doing the jumping and excited dancing. 503 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 4: But it's over time. It's not an instance. You know, 504 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 4: we're always going to look awkward that way. I don't 505 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 4: envy the you know, the artist, you know, I think 506 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 4: in this case did an admirable job for an impossible cask. 507 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 4: That's my opinion. 508 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 2: These statues, you know, I think maybe they should start 509 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 2: being closer to the classical portrait we're thinking of. So 510 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 2: if you're gonna have a statue of an athlete outside 511 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,719 Speaker 2: of the stadium, maybe they really shouldn't be in in 512 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 2: like some crazy position or like doing something in motion, because, 513 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 2: like he was saying, you know, even when you look 514 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 2: at the photo of Dwayne Wade, like we know through 515 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 2: context clues and through just knowing his face that that's 516 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 2: Dwayne Wade, but it doesn't like, quote unquote look like 517 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 2: Dwayne Wade. Yeah, like he's he's like really scrunching his 518 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,239 Speaker 2: face up. If he wasn't in that jersey, if he 519 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 2: wasn't if he was like on the street instead of 520 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,199 Speaker 2: in the basketball scenario, we might be like, who's this? 521 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 2: Like I don't know exactly who that is. 522 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 3: Right, We're not looking at a statue being like, oh, 523 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 3: does this look like Dwayne Wade looked in that specifically 524 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 3: doesn't not ye frame of that shot. It's like this 525 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 3: this is like Dwayne Wade. Oh, and he's doing the 526 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 3: motion from that moment. 527 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, you need to trust your own legacy that you know, 528 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: you can just be be sat with a basketball I'm 529 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: going on a yeah, but you know, with a Miami 530 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: Heat jersey one. All right, so let's move away from athletes. Connor, 531 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: would you mind pulling up one of the MLK photos. 532 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 2: I don't think i've seen this all. 533 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's know this so well. Obviously, love great reverend, 534 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: that's what are your what are your takeaways here? 535 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 2: I mean yeah, like there's like a children's book. 536 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 3: Yes. 537 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: To me, the big thing is just his head. 538 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 3: I mean proportion sizes. 539 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: Aren't a particularly tall guy. 540 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 2: No, you're sure. 541 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure, you know, so they got the body 542 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: size accurate. But his head is enormous and his. 543 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 2: Hands ye huge. Sh Now, this is tough too, because 544 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 2: back then they were wearing some big ass suits. Yeah, 545 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 2: kind of hide what your body like? 546 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 3: This looks like, uh if I was making an MLK 547 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 3: like sports team and I needed a mascot for it, 548 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 3: you know, it's like we were. 549 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: R It does kind of look like a like a 550 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: a kid in in elementary school. Drew Drew image of him, 551 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: and then they're like, all right, we're gonna make a 552 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: statue of yeah, we got off the photos anything. 553 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 2: Which is why I wonder if it's supposed to look exactly. 554 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: I'm trying to look at the details of the face 555 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: to see doesn't look like, yeah, it looks like a guy. 556 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: It looks like a man. 557 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, it looks like a man. Like it looks like 558 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 3: a black man. 559 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no mistake there. 560 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 3: The hair looks pretty good on this one, actually, yeah. True, 561 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 3: he looks like a kid in his face, like his 562 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 3: church clothes. 563 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 4: Yeah. 564 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 2: But what is fascinating about this is that every different 565 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 2: photo looks like a completely different set. 566 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: Like his head looks enormous in this wearing another different angle, 567 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: kind of slightly to the left, I suppose, really straight on. Yeah, 568 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: it's like a caricature style. 569 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 3: Interesting. 570 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: And yeah, and this one not you know, there's motion 571 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: he's waving, but it's not like he's not it's not 572 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: celebrating a buzzer beater that would be. 573 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 3: It's not like, oh, you know, you know, I'm okay, 574 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 3: I was, I was doing that waving his hand. 575 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: It's like he's most famous for, you know, walking, you know. 576 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 2: Stand walking very long distance. This. 577 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: I'm like, this is like a town assemblymen. Yes, no 578 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: offense to the greatest symbol. It's in winter Park, Florida. 579 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 3: Okay, it feels like Martin Luther King's statue in Winnipark, Florida. 580 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know this. 581 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 3: Is in the DC. Yeah. Yeah, it feels like, all right, 582 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 3: you've got a local artist in Winnipark like this. 583 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 2: The other weird thing with the Florida statue of Martin 584 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 2: Luther King, And this is very similar to the Dwayne 585 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 2: Wade one in that they just aged him. Yeah, Martin 586 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 2: Luther King Ray. Well, a lot of people might not recall, 587 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 2: but he died very young. He's in his thirties when 588 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 2: he was killed. And so this guy in this statue 589 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 2: looks like he's seventy. 590 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 3: Everybody looks like their father thirty nine. 591 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think late thirties. But yeah, still, oh yeah, 592 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 2: that's a very young person. 593 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 3: Yes, I'm about to be looks as we discussed people 594 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 3: used to look older. 595 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I was thinking. 596 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 3: I was like, but not that, damn. 597 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 2: I was. 598 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: I was like, maybe it's in our head that just 599 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: like statues are old people. 600 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's. 601 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: Probably a little bit bronze's but like, yeah, the Ronado 602 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: one didn't look that old, you know, no like relative, 603 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: you know, just as another comparison point. 604 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 2: And I know there's the famous one in d C 605 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 2: which I got to see a couple of years ago, 606 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 2: which does look just like him. But this is an interesting, 607 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 2: very interesting statue. 608 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, the DC one's cool. Well, that one's like I 609 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: can't remember the word, but when it's like coming out 610 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: of the block. 611 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's coming out of the slab. 612 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: I think his face looks much more accurate in this one, 613 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: I think. 614 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 3: And the DC one yeah, yeah, this. 615 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 2: Was like the official Yeah, and that's. 616 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 3: More if we want to do some artistic that's the 617 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 3: way to do it, right, Like, it still looks like 618 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 3: the person, but it's not just a straight statue. He's 619 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,479 Speaker 3: coming out and let work. Yeah, yeah, you don't out 620 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 3: of slab. 621 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: Forget the back. 622 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 3: Not sure that's what he was thinking of. 623 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 2: They got you ran up to the deadline. Actually it's 624 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 2: supposed to look like this. 625 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I wasn't supposed to finish the back to there 626 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 3: knocking on the door. I feel like that one got 627 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 3: some criticism when it first came out too, though, Yeah, 628 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 3: probably I like this one. Yeah, I think it does 629 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 3: a great job. I feel like, yeah, the artist being 630 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 3: able to add their little touch to it, but also 631 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 3: representing the person well, looks like the person serving the 632 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 3: purpose of the statue, which is not that like, Oh, 633 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 3: this guy's just such a great sculptor, it's supposed to 634 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 3: look like them. 635 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:14,959 Speaker 1: Well. 636 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 4: The first thing I noticed about the Winter Park MLK 637 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 4: is that it is out of proportion. Now I'm only 638 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 4: looking at it from photographs and video, but it appeared 639 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 4: that the head was too large. That's the first thing. 640 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 4: Proportions in a very large statue outdoors is something that 641 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 4: a sculptor needs to be able to control. Sometimes we 642 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 4: might make the head slightly smaller because of the way 643 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 4: we might be looking up at the statue. Other times, 644 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 4: you know you were going to change the proportions in 645 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 4: different ways in order to again because of the way 646 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 4: you might interact with that's a sculpture. How big is 647 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 4: it in compared to the viewer? How big is it 648 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 4: in compared with architecture? The likeness itself, for me, it 649 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 4: doesn't look like an Okay, ultimately in likeness you're talking 650 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:20,240 Speaker 4: about millimeters, But when you enlarge something sometimes those distortions 651 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 4: can feel exaggerated. So when you're talking about the proportions 652 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 4: of a likeness and then the scale of your proportions, 653 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 4: now you're going up and it's getting bigger and it's outside. 654 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 4: That's a terribly difficult thing to control. But it is 655 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 4: the responsibility of the sculptor. 656 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,879 Speaker 3: I do wonder seeing some of this stuff, especially looking 657 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 3: at a Martin Luther King thing. Right, this guy makes 658 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,240 Speaker 3: this thing, he puts it all together and he sets 659 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 3: back and he's like, God, damn it that head is. Yeah. 660 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 3: Do they ever just start over, you know, like damn 661 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 3: you know, like I mean, well you're making it portrait. 662 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 3: You just get a new piece of paper and you know, 663 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 3: start sketching the game. 664 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 1: I'm sure it depends on the material, and I imagine 665 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: like the budgets and all these things, but it's like 666 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 1: you're either then adding clay or whatever back on or 667 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: chipping away. It's like, all right, so now you have 668 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,919 Speaker 1: this giant, mkay head. Now you need to chip away 669 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 1: the entire thing and keep it in proportion. 670 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, because then you'd have to if you made his 671 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 2: head smaller, you would have to go back and make 672 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 2: his eyes and his nose. 673 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 1: And then you make it too small, then you need 674 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: to chop off the whole bot. You know. 675 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 3: It feels like a lot of time these guys are 676 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,720 Speaker 3: just like, oh bad first attempt, you know, like, oh damn, 677 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 3: you know, you try something that's not quite it. But 678 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 3: if I did it again, yeah, I could get a 679 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 3: little bit closer. Yeah, And it feels like they just 680 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 3: don't get another shot, you know, they get the one 681 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 3: shot and it's just not right. 682 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: They need they need to put them on way longer time. 683 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 684 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: Feel like like when you invite people over for a 685 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: party or something and you give them, you know, two 686 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 1: hours early, knowing no one's going to be there exactly. 687 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,320 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, so you do that first version. Not great, 688 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 3: you got another couple of months to get it together. 689 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: So having learned all this, and John said, you know 690 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 1: several times, like he doesn't envy any of these artists 691 00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,799 Speaker 1: who have to do this, Yeah. 692 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 2: What I've learned is that it's a much more impossible 693 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 2: task than I had originally thought. Not not an impossible one, 694 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,280 Speaker 2: but just like there's so many it's such an uphill 695 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:31,719 Speaker 2: battle to make like an accurate statue. Yeah, and I 696 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 2: just want to again make sure that the people who 697 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 2: end up being in charge of the Lebron James Statue. 698 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: To listen to this episode, so try to get on 699 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,879 Speaker 1: the committee. I'm going to start making sure I don't 700 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,839 Speaker 1: ever smile just for you know, for the artists down 701 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 1: the line when they're doing the NST. Yeah, you know statue. Yeah. 702 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 1: I definitely have deep respect for any sculptor of any 703 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: capacity who's done any of these. And you know, it's 704 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: given me more to consider when I am looking at these, 705 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: especially just simple stuff like the lighting and how much 706 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,399 Speaker 1: that that can affect how you take these in. And 707 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 1: the biggest thing to me think like you're just interesting 708 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,439 Speaker 1: to think about the history of it, where it's like, yeah, 709 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:15,919 Speaker 1: like I actually don't know what any of these old 710 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,720 Speaker 1: statues look like, or like even like someone slightly more recent, 711 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,720 Speaker 1: but like pre photography. It's like someone like Napoleon or something. 712 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:26,880 Speaker 1: It's like, all right, there's plenty of paintings too, so 713 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: like you're basing that and then whatever sculpture it's like, 714 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: but it's still like those are fake images, just like 715 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 1: make up this person in our head, you know. 716 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think the final thing they'll need to 717 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 2: consider is like making a flattering image of the person 718 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 2: instead of something that's one hundred percent supposed to be look, 719 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 2: you know, one to one realistic, something that you know, 720 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 2: gives you something to look at that is flattering of 721 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 2: the subject. 722 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, and feels represented. I feel like we gotta somebody's 723 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 3: gotta change our expectations, right, We got to stop asking 724 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 3: them to make statues of very specific moments in time, right, 725 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 3: Like it just needs to be like, okay, make it 726 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:13,360 Speaker 3: look like this person. And I feel like the artists 727 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,799 Speaker 3: need to just understand, Hey, we're not here. 728 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 1: It's not about you. 729 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,719 Speaker 3: We're not here to see your work. Yeah, We're here 730 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 3: to see a representation of this person. 731 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 4: Yeah. 732 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, you have to understand you put your personal style 733 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 3: to the side unless you know you're going to do 734 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 3: something like the like I said, the MLK and DC 735 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,840 Speaker 3: pretty good combination of those two. This guy doing a 736 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 3: Ronaldo like like, like I boy said, I don't know 737 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 3: if he's doing anime drawings or whatever the hell he 738 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,279 Speaker 3: was trying to do with the statue. We don't want 739 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,360 Speaker 3: the statue to look like an anime draw. 740 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,760 Speaker 1: Soon, all these statues are gonna look like damn laboo boos. 741 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, these statues were really meant to walk up to 742 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,839 Speaker 2: them and be like, that's yep, that's Lebron James. 743 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:55,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's essentially. We want a photograph. Yeah, a three 744 00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: D photograph made of one color. I mean, good luck, Yeah, 745 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 1: good luck. Any sculptors are listening in wanna make a 746 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: free sculpture of us? Shoot us an email. 747 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,800 Speaker 3: We won't be too harsh. He's He's helsay Hewsay Hews. 748 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: No such thing as a production of Kaleidoscope content. Our 749 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 1: executive producers are Kate Osborne and Mangesh hot To Cadur. 750 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 1: The show was created by Manny Fidel, Noah Friedman, and 751 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,880 Speaker 1: Devin Joseph Them and credits song by Manny. Mixing is 752 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 1: by Steve Bone, our guest this week with sculptor John Billardo. 753 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 1: You can visit www dot No such thing dot show 754 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,800 Speaker 1: to subscribe to our newsletter, where you can find images 755 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,880 Speaker 1: of all the sculptures discussed in this episode, and if 756 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 1: you have feedback for us or a question, our email 757 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: is Manny Noah Devin at gmail dot com, or if 758 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:44,360 Speaker 1: you're in the US, you can also leave us a 759 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: voicemail by calling the number in our show notes. We'll 760 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:48,800 Speaker 1: be back next week with a new episode. Thanks for listening, 761 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:54,160 Speaker 1: Hell's hell's, hell's ayes, Hell's no such thing.