WEBVTT - When Empathy Becomes Toxic | Allie Beth Stuckey

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<v Speaker 1>How did you learn what a healthy church is? Tell

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<v Speaker 1>me walk me through that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, well, I was raised Christian, and I'm very grateful

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<v Speaker 2>for that. I was raised also going to a Christian school.

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<v Speaker 2>And I credit first of all my parents for just

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<v Speaker 2>how they discipled me, and yes my mom and my dad,

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<v Speaker 2>but primarily my mom. And I think a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>people would say that just because you spend the most

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<v Speaker 2>time with your mom growing up and seeing her example

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<v Speaker 2>of every single morning having her journal and her coffee

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<v Speaker 2>and her Bible out, how she diligently prayed with me,

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<v Speaker 2>how she how she's sang hymns with me every night,

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<v Speaker 2>and we were just very close and had that connection.

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<v Speaker 2>And I just followed her example in loving scripture and

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<v Speaker 2>loving worship more than the Christian school kindergarten through twelfth grade,

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<v Speaker 2>more than the Ijuanas, more than the Southern Baptist tradition

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<v Speaker 2>of going to church on Wednesdays and Sunday mornings and

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<v Speaker 2>Sunday nights, which were all beautiful and all blessings. Like

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<v Speaker 2>I credit just the example in the diligence of my

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<v Speaker 2>parents in discipleship. And also my grandmother lived with me

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<v Speaker 2>until I was thirteen. We were very close and also

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<v Speaker 2>her example. Both of my grandmother and my mom were

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<v Speaker 2>both teachers by trade for a while before I was born,

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<v Speaker 2>and they used that gift that God gave them to

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<v Speaker 2>really disciple my brothers and me, but a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>me because my brothers are a lot older than me.

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<v Speaker 2>So anyway, I was just the beneficiary of a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of good teaching. But it wasn't really until high school

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<v Speaker 2>that I started taking my faith seriously and personally digging

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<v Speaker 2>into apologetics and theology. That's when I started considering if

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<v Speaker 2>I was what is typically referred to as reformed, although

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<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't have necessarily called myself that reading C. S.

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<v Speaker 2>Lewis and Tim Keller and John Piper, Matt Chandler at

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<v Speaker 2>the time. This was all probably junior in high school,

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<v Speaker 2>and I actually started going to another church independent of

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<v Speaker 2>my parents that was maybe a little bit more in

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<v Speaker 2>that direction. My friend gifted me with an ESV Study

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<v Speaker 2>Bible when I was a freshman in college, which totally

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<v Speaker 2>shaped my theology and still does to this day. And

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<v Speaker 2>I would say I kind of marched steadily towards that

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<v Speaker 2>like reformed camp, and that really shaped my theology. And

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<v Speaker 2>so that means a lot of exa Jesus, a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of theology, a lot of Bible, and I had been

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<v Speaker 2>somewhat raised with a little bit of a prosperity tinge,

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<v Speaker 2>I would say, to some of my theology, or at

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<v Speaker 2>least there was an acceptance of the Jolo Stein theology

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<v Speaker 2>a bit. And so when I dug into biblical theology

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<v Speaker 2>and expository preaching, it was like a whole new intellectual

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<v Speaker 2>world for me. And so when my husband and I

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<v Speaker 2>got married, because shared that love, shared that passion, and

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<v Speaker 2>we knew that we wanted expository preaching when we selected

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<v Speaker 2>a church. Now, we're Baptists, and we're both Southern Baptists,

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<v Speaker 2>and so that's not typically like in the Reformed camp.

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<v Speaker 2>That's typically Presbyterian, and we don't have to get into

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<v Speaker 2>the nitty gritty of everything that means. But that's primarily

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<v Speaker 2>what we were looking for. We were looking for a church

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<v Speaker 2>that teaches exogetically and that sticks to the word, and

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<v Speaker 2>that isn't going to compromise when everyone else is compromising.

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<v Speaker 2>Twenty twenty was a big test for everyone, and I

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<v Speaker 2>was very thankful that my church stayed open, that my

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<v Speaker 2>church stood firm, that my church has been clear. And

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<v Speaker 2>also another thing for us is that it would be

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<v Speaker 2>easy to get involved. There are solid churches, big churches

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<v Speaker 2>that are great, but they're hard to get involved in. Like,

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<v Speaker 2>we went to a church when we were just married

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<v Speaker 2>that we tried to join a small group. You couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>even join a small group anytime you wanted. It was

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<v Speaker 2>every six months and only if there was an opening,

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<v Speaker 2>and so like, what were you supposed to do? Just

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<v Speaker 2>wait in the pews until someone maybe came up to

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<v Speaker 2>you and I don't know, welcomed you in, but if not,

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<v Speaker 2>you're just kind of going to be stranded. The church

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<v Speaker 2>that we're in now, it was so easy to get

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<v Speaker 2>plugged in, to go to a Sunday school class and

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<v Speaker 2>to find you know, those people and those opportunities to serve.

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<v Speaker 2>And so those are the two of the things that

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<v Speaker 2>we were looking for.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's fantastic. We're on the exact same page with that.

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<v Speaker 1>And I am not against big churches. I feel like

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<v Speaker 1>I need to say that often because because it starts

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<v Speaker 1>to sound like I'm pro small church and that's the

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<v Speaker 1>only way to do it. There are plenty unhealthy small churches,

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<v Speaker 1>but you need to have enough shepherds for the amount

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<v Speaker 1>of sheep you have. And yeah, that's that's usually what's lost.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you have a big ranch, you would want

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<v Speaker 1>you have a lot of cattle. You want a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of ranch hands for the amount of cattle. And usually

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<v Speaker 1>we don't see churches that way. You you have a

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<v Speaker 1>megachurch and just not enough leadership. That's why people get lost.

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<v Speaker 1>That's why people aren't responding. You can't get into a

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<v Speaker 1>small group or whatever. So in that aspect, it's wiser

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<v Speaker 1>to be in a church that's that's the right size

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<v Speaker 1>proportionally to its eldership. I don't I honestly, sitting here

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<v Speaker 1>right now, I don't know the church that you go to,

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<v Speaker 1>but I probably know them if we talked offline, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>sure I know them. Because it's, uh, that's exactly what

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<v Speaker 1>I would want my family to experience in church, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's what I want any of my listeners to know

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<v Speaker 1>about church, because I have so many people I'm sure

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<v Speaker 1>you too, so many people go. You know what, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't need church. I find God in the woods. I

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<v Speaker 1>love hunting, and that's where I really experience God. And

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<v Speaker 1>the idea of being involved in a local body serving

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<v Speaker 1>a local body, being served by a local body is rare.

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<v Speaker 1>And then to see you on your platform be involved

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<v Speaker 1>and be in the nursery is It's incredible. It's an

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<v Speaker 1>incredible blessing.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, we see a lot of people and this is

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<v Speaker 2>not to say you know, I'm it's what I do

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<v Speaker 2>is like very small potatoes compared to those who are

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like who have huge, mega platforms and get

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<v Speaker 2>super famous in all of that. But any form of

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<v Speaker 2>platform or any form of influence that anyone has, there's

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<v Speaker 2>always going to be an opportunity to get sucked into

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<v Speaker 2>the rat race and get sucked into the opportunism and

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<v Speaker 2>the ambition that exists there. And I think like the

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<v Speaker 2>cheat code outside of just the grace of God and

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<v Speaker 2>the protection of God that has nothing to do with

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<v Speaker 2>my own efforts. But in addition to that, like the

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<v Speaker 2>cheat code to avoiding that craziness, the gossip, the backstabbing,

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<v Speaker 2>the betrayal that even exists in like smaller conservative media,

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<v Speaker 2>because all that exists, the corruption, the I mean, there's

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<v Speaker 2>just craziness that goes on behind the scenes. There is

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<v Speaker 2>living a normal life and having a normal family, not

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<v Speaker 2>only having like a normal loving marriage, where you spend

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<v Speaker 2>a ton of time together. You travel together. You're not

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<v Speaker 2>like traveling off by yourself all the time, but you're

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<v Speaker 2>together with your family. The closer you can be to

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<v Speaker 2>real everyday people who know you, who know your life,

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<v Speaker 2>who can speak into your life, who can say you're

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<v Speaker 2>off on that you're going too far in that direction.

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<v Speaker 2>You need to say no to that that's not good

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<v Speaker 2>to you, or that's not good for you, or whatever

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<v Speaker 2>it is, or encourage you like on the other end,

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<v Speaker 2>like yes, you are doing great at whatever it is.

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<v Speaker 2>The more that you can be plugged into your church,

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<v Speaker 2>the more that you can try as much as you

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<v Speaker 2>can to just maintain normal friendships people who don't have

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<v Speaker 2>any kind of platform like that is the cheat code.

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<v Speaker 2>That is how you stay honest and normal and saying.

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<v Speaker 2>People ask me all the time, how do you talk

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<v Speaker 2>about like the news and all of this sad stuff

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<v Speaker 2>without getting just sad and stressed and spit And it's

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<v Speaker 2>because I have. It's because of my life, it's because

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<v Speaker 2>of my family, it's because of my marriage. In addition,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, to the grace of God, it's because of

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<v Speaker 2>all of the normalcy and stability that I have that

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<v Speaker 2>I think is what charges me and gives me the

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<v Speaker 2>ability to talk about the chaos that's going on in

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<v Speaker 2>the world because I have a respite in my everyday life.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's advice that I would give to anyone.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's good.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you think of a time when someone in your

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<v Speaker 1>family said, Ali, you're off, You're off on this.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, my dad calls me all the time, and it's like,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, not a big deal. I mean he is like,

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<v Speaker 2>besides my husband, like my biggest cheerleader ever, and so

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<v Speaker 2>I never doubt that. I mean, he's on the show

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<v Speaker 2>all the time. If my husband for some reason can't

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<v Speaker 2>travel with me, my dad travels with me all the time.

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<v Speaker 2>And yeah, so he's great and I always trust to

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<v Speaker 2>and I always will hear him out, but he will

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<v Speaker 2>definitely be like, you know, I think that you should

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<v Speaker 2>have talked to that person privately before you brought that

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<v Speaker 2>up on the show. And I'm like, uh, I think

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<v Speaker 2>that you're right. I shouldn't have because or you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I think that you made around call about that or

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<v Speaker 2>here's what you're not seeing about that. And so my

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<v Speaker 2>dad does that. My mom has at times, and I

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<v Speaker 2>try to be really careful and really discerning with everything

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<v Speaker 2>I say. But my mom has at times been like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know what, I don't think that this was the

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<v Speaker 2>most the best thing that you could have said on

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<v Speaker 2>social media today about that my brother a few years ago. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>So I don't cuss at all, I especially like not publicly.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think I said something one time, like I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know, maybe seven years ago. I think I said

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<v Speaker 2>like bad a or something on Twitter. Uh, now I'm

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<v Speaker 2>talking about publicly here, okay, And so, and my brother

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<v Speaker 2>texted me and was like, you don't need to say

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<v Speaker 2>something like that, like it just doesn't add anything to

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<v Speaker 2>your argument. And I was like, you're totally right. There's

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<v Speaker 2>no reason for me to say something like that. It

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't make me sound smarter and if anything, it could

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<v Speaker 2>cost someone else to stumble. And so, yeah, there's a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people in my life who it's not constant

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<v Speaker 2>criticism by any means, I would say, you know, by

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<v Speaker 2>and large, it's a lot of like encouragement and you go,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's awesome. But I definitely have people who are

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<v Speaker 2>not afraid to say ah, I don't think so I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think that's right. And obviously I try to preempt

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<v Speaker 2>those mistakes by going to them and being like, what

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<v Speaker 2>do you think about this? Should I talk about this?

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<v Speaker 2>Should I approach this? And I don't always get it right,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, by any means, but I'm just thankful that

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<v Speaker 2>I have people who are willing to speak into that.

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<v Speaker 3>So what do you do?

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<v Speaker 1>So your dad goes to you, Ali, I think you're

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<v Speaker 1>wrong in this, You start to agree with them, he

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<v Speaker 1>redukes you. Do you go back on social media and

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<v Speaker 1>correct anything?

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<v Speaker 3>Or do you let it go?

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<v Speaker 2>Trying to think about the specific instance, I've definitely done that.

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<v Speaker 2>I have definitely apologized for either my tone or something

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<v Speaker 2>that I said, And certainly if I ever make a mistake,

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<v Speaker 2>I always will correct it publicly, And obviously I want

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<v Speaker 2>to avoid that. No one likes being wrong. Everyone's goal

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<v Speaker 2>is to be great all the time, and so I

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<v Speaker 2>try to avoid that as much as I possibly can.

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<v Speaker 2>But I will always correct the record if I say

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<v Speaker 2>something wrong, or if I misrepresented something, or if I

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<v Speaker 2>unfairly criticize someone. And I can't even think about like

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<v Speaker 2>a specific instance because I try not to do that,

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<v Speaker 2>but I have. I've definitely gone back. I actually just

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<v Speaker 2>had to correct the record on something today. It was

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<v Speaker 2>something my guest said, not something I said, but she

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<v Speaker 2>kind of threw someone under the bus, and it was

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<v Speaker 2>it ended up being the wrong person. It's a little

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<v Speaker 2>hard sometimes with the guests too, because I can't always

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<v Speaker 2>fact check them in the moment. But yes, I because

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I want people to be able to trust

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<v Speaker 2>the show, and so being able to take that feedback

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<v Speaker 2>is important.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, where do you think the show goes? Do you

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<v Speaker 1>think it continues to grow like it's growing now? Do

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<v Speaker 1>you think it reaches a level where you say, you

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<v Speaker 1>know what?

0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:11.640
<v Speaker 3>I think that's enough.

0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:16.840
<v Speaker 2>Hmmm. I'm trying to decide what I want to like,

0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.880
<v Speaker 2>what I want to say publicly, but to be candid,

0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:23.520
<v Speaker 2>I don't see the show lasting forever. I love it,

0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:26.920
<v Speaker 2>but I have we have some other my husband and

0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:31.600
<v Speaker 2>I have some other ideas too. In addition, right, I

0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:33.880
<v Speaker 2>have no by the way, like I have no plans

0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:36.679
<v Speaker 2>to quit the show like that is not on the timeline.

0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:37.400
<v Speaker 1>I love it.

0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:39.920
<v Speaker 2>I truly love what I do, and I love talking

0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:44.480
<v Speaker 2>and all of that. So I plan unrelatable lasting but

0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:48.600
<v Speaker 2>talking long term and the next like ten to fifteen years.

0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:53.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't see myself going into a studio and having

0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:55.440
<v Speaker 2>a four times a week show. I just I just

0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:57.960
<v Speaker 2>don't I don't know what exactly it looks like. I

0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:00.240
<v Speaker 2>don't see us quitting all of this all together there,

0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:04.640
<v Speaker 2>But we have some other ideas for some other projects

0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:08.160
<v Speaker 2>that hopefully continue to influence Christians to think about the

0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:13.319
<v Speaker 2>things that matter, but does not rely on my daily voice.

0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:16.199
<v Speaker 2>If that makes sense. So that's that's what I'll say.

0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:17.600
<v Speaker 3>It makes total sense.

0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:20.280
<v Speaker 1>I won't push you on that because I understand that

0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:25.319
<v Speaker 1>we live in such an interesting time where legacy media

0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:28.960
<v Speaker 1>doesn't dominate the consumption of the people.

0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.360
<v Speaker 3>So there, I would say that because there are.

0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:36.840
<v Speaker 1>Arguably probably say millions of people that rely on you

0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:42.400
<v Speaker 1>for their consumption of news and politics and Christian world order.

0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:47.880
<v Speaker 1>It's it's crazy, And this wouldn't have happened ten years ago.

0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:50.680
<v Speaker 1>You wouldn't have you wouldn't have had this opportunity ten

0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:54.120
<v Speaker 1>years ago. It's changed so much, and you have. You've

0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:58.200
<v Speaker 1>really challenged me, actually, because because it's hard for me

0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:02.800
<v Speaker 1>to You've challenged me that as a Christian, I need

0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:07.000
<v Speaker 1>to be in politics at some level. I can't completely

0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:11.320
<v Speaker 1>avoid it. Yeah, and I think to myself, how do

0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:14.160
<v Speaker 1>I keep up with it though, like how would I

0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:17.440
<v Speaker 1>keep informed about it? And so where do you get

0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:22.800
<v Speaker 1>your information? Where are you informed to then give your

0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:24.000
<v Speaker 1>Christian worldview about it?

0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:26.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think there are different places you would go

0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:30.520
<v Speaker 2>a pastor versus a podcaster, And obviously you have a

0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:34.160
<v Speaker 2>podcast too, but it's not primarily focused on politics. I

0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:38.080
<v Speaker 2>don't think that a pastor and I know you agree

0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.440
<v Speaker 2>with this, needs to talk about the news every week

0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:43.280
<v Speaker 2>from the pulpit, or even needs to know everything that's

0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:45.760
<v Speaker 2>going on in the twenty four hour news cycle. I

0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:48.280
<v Speaker 2>would say that a pastor needs to know about policy

0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:52.240
<v Speaker 2>and particular policy that is going to affect his congregants

0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.040
<v Speaker 2>and his flock. And I think that pastors in general

0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.520
<v Speaker 2>probably need to do a better job of paying attention

0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:04.320
<v Speaker 2>to always saying preaching about, but paying attention to local policy,

0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.800
<v Speaker 2>especially any kind of local policy that has an effect

0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:12.240
<v Speaker 2>on their congregants and their congregants children. Like personally, I

0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:15.800
<v Speaker 2>would love to see, like say, there was a local

0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:19.600
<v Speaker 2>school where a bunch of parents in the congregation were

0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:23.320
<v Speaker 2>sending their kids and there was I don't know, some

0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.280
<v Speaker 2>kind of measure that was being pushed forward that would

0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.640
<v Speaker 2>allow boys into girls' bathrooms, or maybe it's the promotion

0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:32.920
<v Speaker 2>of pornographic materials in school. I think it would be

0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.200
<v Speaker 2>completely within the purview of a pastor to speak in

0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:38.800
<v Speaker 2>to that. And maybe they don't get into the nitty

0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:42.440
<v Speaker 2>gritty of the policy. Maybe they do, but to ensure

0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:48.800
<v Speaker 2>that their congregants know the underneath biblical principles of that,

0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.080
<v Speaker 2>like what is the role of the parent, What is

0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.000
<v Speaker 2>the role of the church, What is the role of

0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:55.680
<v Speaker 2>the civil government, What is the role of the parent

0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:58.640
<v Speaker 2>When it comes to education, like how should we think

0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:02.720
<v Speaker 2>about public education versus Christian education? What should we think

0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:06.560
<v Speaker 2>about gender? What should we think about sexuality? All of

0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:11.080
<v Speaker 2>those things, they have become political. Unfortunately, it's not that

0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:14.720
<v Speaker 2>it's not that pastors are becoming political. It is that

0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:20.040
<v Speaker 2>politics has become very theological and pastors as like you know,

0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:23.760
<v Speaker 2>the theologians and the shepherds of their flock. Where those

0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:27.560
<v Speaker 2>two things intersect, especially when there is going to be

0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:31.480
<v Speaker 2>a tangible impact on their community, I do think have

0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:34.800
<v Speaker 2>a responsibility to speak up. And I've said before, and

0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:36.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure you agree with this. I might have even

0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:42.000
<v Speaker 2>said it in our conversation that pastors, if they are

0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:45.080
<v Speaker 2>preaching faithfully through the Bible. It's only going to take

0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:47.960
<v Speaker 2>them twenty seven verses into Genesis to get into quote

0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:51.520
<v Speaker 2>unquote politics, because right there we see that God created

0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:54.080
<v Speaker 2>as male and female in his image. So we get

0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:56.360
<v Speaker 2>the sanctity of life, We get the definition of gender

0:16:56.400 --> 0:17:00.480
<v Speaker 2>and the definition of marriage all in one in the

0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:02.400
<v Speaker 2>very first chapter of the first book of the Bible.

0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Those are called culture war issues, but those are really

0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:08.200
<v Speaker 2>creation issues. And so if a pastor is simply preaching

0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:10.880
<v Speaker 2>the Bible, not talking about so called politics at all,

0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:15.480
<v Speaker 2>he's going to weigh into those controversial subjects. And pastors

0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:17.679
<v Speaker 2>who avoid those things, it's not that you're avoiding politics,

0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:21.320
<v Speaker 2>is that you're avoiding scripture. That's inconvenient, and so I

0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:23.320
<v Speaker 2>just think I think it's inevitable. There are probably a

0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:26.040
<v Speaker 2>variety of ways to do it faithfully, but I do

0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:28.120
<v Speaker 2>think there is a responsibility there.

0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:30.960
<v Speaker 1>You know, at some point in our lives, things got

0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:33.360
<v Speaker 1>a lot easier at gee dot com and grangerspent dot

0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:35.639
<v Speaker 1>com when me and my two brothers switched over to

0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:39.520
<v Speaker 1>Shopify and let them handle the checkout portion of our website.

0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:41.320
<v Speaker 1>I know that kind of sounds complicated, but if you're

0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:43.840
<v Speaker 1>wanting to start a business or start some kind of

0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:47.440
<v Speaker 1>e commerce marketing company, you need to think about Shopify

0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.880
<v Speaker 1>to handle all your checkout needs, like so many thousands

0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.359
<v Speaker 1>of other companies have done across the world. They handle

0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:56.800
<v Speaker 1>credit card sales and all other online digital sales and

0:17:56.880 --> 0:18:00.480
<v Speaker 1>help you concentrate on your creativity so you can concentrate

0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.320
<v Speaker 1>on your product and how the website itself looks. And

0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:06.360
<v Speaker 1>they deal with the nitty gritty details of the checkout process.

0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:09.440
<v Speaker 1>So upgrade your business and get the same checkout as

0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.800
<v Speaker 1>we use with Shopify. Sign up for your one dollar

0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:15.680
<v Speaker 1>per month trial period at shopify dot com slash granger

0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:19.480
<v Speaker 1>all lowercase. Go to shopify dot com slash granger to

0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:23.240
<v Speaker 1>upgrade your selling today. Shopify dot com slash Granger.

0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:25.040
<v Speaker 3>As a reminder, you.

0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:26.800
<v Speaker 1>Could always get a hold of me on cameo dot

0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.280
<v Speaker 1>com slash granger Smith. It's a great way to get

0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:32.320
<v Speaker 1>a message a video message from me from anywhere in

0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:34.280
<v Speaker 1>the world to whoever you want to send it to.

0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:37.679
<v Speaker 1>You go to cameo dot com slash granger Smith and

0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:40.760
<v Speaker 1>you fill out whatever you want me to say. Happy anniversary,

0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:44.440
<v Speaker 1>happy birthday. May be a word of encouragement to someone

0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:46.800
<v Speaker 1>that needs to hear it and that person may be you,

0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:50.080
<v Speaker 1>and then I'll send you a video message. It's super

0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:52.600
<v Speaker 1>easy and it's a good gift. I've been doing this

0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:54.800
<v Speaker 1>for many years now. It's a good gift to someone

0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:57.680
<v Speaker 1>that is impossible to buy for and you don't know

0:18:57.680 --> 0:18:59.400
<v Speaker 1>what to get them. Once again, go to cameo dot

0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:03.719
<v Speaker 1>com slash Granger Smith. I got to tell you all

0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:07.160
<v Speaker 1>about this. Have you heard about yege Fest. It's happening

0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.520
<v Speaker 1>this year May ninth and tenth in Georgetown, Texas at

0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:13.320
<v Speaker 1>the EEE Farm, So you can come hang out with us. Me,

0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.120
<v Speaker 1>my brothers, my family will all be there. We've got

0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:18.840
<v Speaker 1>a truck show happening. We've got a mud bog competition,

0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:20.280
<v Speaker 1>kind of like we did last year, but the new

0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.359
<v Speaker 1>edition this year is a concert by me and my

0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:25.880
<v Speaker 1>band and my old crew. This is not a tour.

0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:28.439
<v Speaker 1>This is not me getting back into music. This is

0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:31.240
<v Speaker 1>one time every year we hope to do a concert

0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:34.000
<v Speaker 1>for my friends and family, especially Maverick who's never seen

0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:36.280
<v Speaker 1>me play live before. So come out have a meal

0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:38.560
<v Speaker 1>with me and my family on Friday night. I'm going

0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:40.560
<v Speaker 1>to give a little devotional from the Bible, maybe play

0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:42.560
<v Speaker 1>an acoustic song, or two. This is really a once

0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.000
<v Speaker 1>in a lifetime experience, and if you want to find

0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:48.200
<v Speaker 1>out more, go to eeye dot com.

0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:50.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think you're right. How do you word it?

0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:53.359
<v Speaker 3>You say, politics affects policy. Policy affects people.

0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:57.560
<v Speaker 2>Politics matter because policy matters, because people matter. Politics affects policy,

0:19:57.560 --> 0:19:58.639
<v Speaker 2>policy affects people.

0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:02.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, that's that's fantastic.

0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:05.359
<v Speaker 1>And I need to I need to be better about

0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:08.439
<v Speaker 1>just being aware because sometimes I watch you and I

0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:13.080
<v Speaker 1>go she just is always aware of the changing tide of.

0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:15.920
<v Speaker 2>Even I'm behind I feel like I'm behind it. I

0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:17.879
<v Speaker 2>don't know if that makes you feel better or worse,

0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:20.879
<v Speaker 2>but sure you like because I don't even have the

0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:23.800
<v Speaker 2>daily news show. I've got two interviews a week that

0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:26.960
<v Speaker 2>I talk about evergreen stuff, theology, whatever, and then too

0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:30.560
<v Speaker 2>where we try to talk about culture politics, and I

0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:35.280
<v Speaker 2>never ever ever have time to cover everything that's going on.

0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:39.320
<v Speaker 2>And honestly, sometimes you just need to ignore the current

0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:42.040
<v Speaker 2>news cycle because it's gonna fade out and it's really

0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:44.560
<v Speaker 2>not that important and you just have to have the

0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:45.400
<v Speaker 2>discernment to.

0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:49.000
<v Speaker 3>Know, Yeah, you're good. I totally agree.

0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:52.720
<v Speaker 1>Let's let's let's go to where this kind of all intersects,

0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:55.879
<v Speaker 1>and that is this book Toxic Empathy with a with

0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:59.439
<v Speaker 1>across right there at the ex I like that it

0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:04.840
<v Speaker 1>works really good. Toxic empathy, how progressives exploit Christian compassion.

0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:10.119
<v Speaker 1>This is a very important discussion. It's a very important book.

0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:14.040
<v Speaker 1>And this is something that Christians have been talking about

0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:20.240
<v Speaker 1>for maybe around a decade in a way, the misdefinition

0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:26.080
<v Speaker 1>of empathy. And in your book, this kind of begins

0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:27.720
<v Speaker 1>for you in twenty twenty, which it did for.

0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:29.199
<v Speaker 3>A lot of us.

0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:32.520
<v Speaker 1>You kind of walked through at the beginning of your book,

0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:37.199
<v Speaker 1>the George Floyd incident, and I was right there with you.

0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:41.479
<v Speaker 1>I remember during George Floyd, during the you're watching everyone

0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:45.040
<v Speaker 1>post the Black Squares and you kind of describe how

0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:48.760
<v Speaker 1>there's the secular people, then there's Christians, but they're kind

0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:50.200
<v Speaker 1>of coming together, and it's like, oh.

0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:51.800
<v Speaker 3>Is this a cool moment of unity?

0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:52.680
<v Speaker 2>Maybe?

0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:56.560
<v Speaker 1>I remember my first reaction was and I posted this

0:21:56.720 --> 0:22:00.280
<v Speaker 1>my first reaction, and I was an idiot for kind

0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:02.520
<v Speaker 1>of a knee jerk, but I was like, all people matter,

0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:08.639
<v Speaker 1>you know, And that sounds crazy now because that in

0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:12.000
<v Speaker 1>itself is it's like equivalent to a racial slur. These days,

0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:16.640
<v Speaker 1>All people matter and I do remember deleting that and

0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:19.879
<v Speaker 1>trying to rethink why wait, why, because I've got I

0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:22.440
<v Speaker 1>got so much hate, And it was before I even

0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:25.320
<v Speaker 1>knew that that was a thing that was just I

0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:28.960
<v Speaker 1>remember thinking, I really need to sit with this. And

0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:32.800
<v Speaker 1>I could see in your book you walking through this yourself,

0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:36.159
<v Speaker 1>kind of unpacking the implications. Is one thing led to

0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:41.440
<v Speaker 1>another as we watched it unfold. Fascinating and I love

0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:45.000
<v Speaker 1>that that's the way you start this book because it

0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:49.320
<v Speaker 1>takes us on a very important journey that everyone needs

0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:53.399
<v Speaker 1>to talk about, and that is our empathy of just

0:22:53.400 --> 0:22:57.640
<v Speaker 1>like a bunch of words have been hijacked, and it's

0:22:57.680 --> 0:22:58.440
<v Speaker 1>not for our good.

0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:01.119
<v Speaker 3>You find it at the very beginning.

0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:04.080
<v Speaker 1>You're saying, the ability to place yourself in another person's shoes,

0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:08.520
<v Speaker 1>with or without having a similar experience is typically called empathy. Okay,

0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:12.680
<v Speaker 1>there's nothing inherently wrong with that, But then you say,

0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:16.440
<v Speaker 1>empathy has been hijacked for the purpose of conforming well

0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:21.800
<v Speaker 1>intentioned people to particular political agendas. Specifically, it's been co

0:23:21.840 --> 0:23:25.440
<v Speaker 1>opted by the progressive wing of American society to convince

0:23:25.520 --> 0:23:29.359
<v Speaker 1>people that the progressive position is exclusively the one of

0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:35.400
<v Speaker 1>kindness and morality. This is where you call it toxic empathy.

0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:43.840
<v Speaker 1>Fascinating stuff you talk about how this you say your

0:23:43.920 --> 0:23:45.760
<v Speaker 1>feeling and my feeling too. No one wants to be

0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:49.960
<v Speaker 1>seen as unempathetic because a person who completely lacks empathy

0:23:50.040 --> 0:23:52.720
<v Speaker 1>may be called a narcissist, and that we're so scared

0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:54.280
<v Speaker 1>of that word, like, oh, man, I don't want to

0:23:54.280 --> 0:23:57.920
<v Speaker 1>be a narcissist, but you say it extorts a real

0:23:58.280 --> 0:24:01.159
<v Speaker 1>good desire that most people have, which is to be

0:24:01.320 --> 0:24:06.800
<v Speaker 1>and to be perceived as kind. Right, so then we

0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:10.760
<v Speaker 1>you unpack. But empathy and kindness are not synonymous, and

0:24:10.800 --> 0:24:14.560
<v Speaker 1>neither empathy and compassion. Kindness describes how we treat someone,

0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:17.639
<v Speaker 1>either in word or deed. Compassion means to suffer with

0:24:17.720 --> 0:24:21.400
<v Speaker 1>someone who's struggling. Both kindness and compassion are necessary components

0:24:21.440 --> 0:24:25.399
<v Speaker 1>of love, but empathy literally means to be in the

0:24:25.440 --> 0:24:29.760
<v Speaker 1>feelings of another person. Empathy, by itself is neither loving

0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:32.440
<v Speaker 1>nor kind It's just an emotion.

0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:34.119
<v Speaker 3>Love, on the other.

0:24:34.000 --> 0:24:37.520
<v Speaker 1>Hand, is a conscious choice to seek good for another person.

0:24:38.920 --> 0:24:42.800
<v Speaker 3>That's oh, that is so important. It's so important to

0:24:42.800 --> 0:24:44.320
<v Speaker 3>be said, and.

0:24:44.240 --> 0:24:50.359
<v Speaker 1>It's you laid it out in such a transparent way,

0:24:51.000 --> 0:24:51.480
<v Speaker 1>So thank you.

0:24:51.520 --> 0:24:52.880
<v Speaker 3>For this book, I should say.

0:24:53.640 --> 0:24:56.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, thank you, I appreciate that. Yeah, a lot of

0:24:56.760 --> 0:25:01.320
<v Speaker 2>people were really confused in twenty twenty, of myself included,

0:25:01.920 --> 0:25:06.359
<v Speaker 2>and there is a lot of a lot of grace

0:25:06.600 --> 0:25:10.359
<v Speaker 2>for the kind of back and forth you mentioned, posting

0:25:10.400 --> 0:25:12.880
<v Speaker 2>something then deleting it, not really knowing what the right

0:25:12.920 --> 0:25:15.360
<v Speaker 2>thing is, not knowing the whole context of like why

0:25:15.400 --> 0:25:17.880
<v Speaker 2>everyone was posting. A lot of people felt that way,

0:25:18.359 --> 0:25:20.879
<v Speaker 2>and it was probably only because I was kind of

0:25:20.920 --> 0:25:23.560
<v Speaker 2>plugged into the news and had watched this Black Lives

0:25:23.640 --> 0:25:27.400
<v Speaker 2>Matter movement, you know, come to the forefront that I

0:25:27.400 --> 0:25:32.400
<v Speaker 2>immediately was a little skeptical and struggled with that because

0:25:32.840 --> 0:25:36.200
<v Speaker 2>whenever I see something like a hashtag black Lives Matter,

0:25:36.440 --> 0:25:38.720
<v Speaker 2>I know I can't take that at face value. That

0:25:38.840 --> 0:25:43.040
<v Speaker 2>is an organization that has values that don't align with mine,

0:25:43.040 --> 0:25:45.080
<v Speaker 2>and we can get into that a little bit. More So,

0:25:45.560 --> 0:25:48.439
<v Speaker 2>when I saw that black square everyone posting it, I

0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:52.760
<v Speaker 2>knew that within that posting was the assumption that George

0:25:52.760 --> 0:25:55.520
<v Speaker 2>Floyd was murdered because of his race, and I could

0:25:55.520 --> 0:25:57.959
<v Speaker 2>not get on board with that assumption yet because I

0:25:58.000 --> 0:26:00.840
<v Speaker 2>did not know that no one knew that by the way,

0:26:01.160 --> 0:26:03.320
<v Speaker 2>based on the video footage that we saw, which was

0:26:03.440 --> 0:26:05.960
<v Speaker 2>very scandalous to say at the time, and when I

0:26:06.000 --> 0:26:09.399
<v Speaker 2>started trying to like push back against it and to say, look,

0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:12.400
<v Speaker 2>at least look at the other people over here who

0:26:12.520 --> 0:26:16.240
<v Speaker 2>are being damaged and hurt by the riots and by

0:26:16.280 --> 0:26:19.160
<v Speaker 2>the looting that's going on in the name of honoring

0:26:19.240 --> 0:26:23.760
<v Speaker 2>George Floyd. These people are also black. These people are innocent,

0:26:23.960 --> 0:26:27.119
<v Speaker 2>These people are poor. There was this horrible video that

0:26:27.160 --> 0:26:29.600
<v Speaker 2>I remember seeing of a woman who she lived in

0:26:29.640 --> 0:26:32.000
<v Speaker 2>this town, maybe it was in Kenosha, I don't remember

0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:34.119
<v Speaker 2>which town it was that ended up burning down the

0:26:34.160 --> 0:26:36.400
<v Speaker 2>stores being looted. She was like, I can't even go

0:26:36.440 --> 0:26:39.640
<v Speaker 2>get my prescription medicine right now. This is like an

0:26:39.680 --> 0:26:44.080
<v Speaker 2>older black lady who is just crying because her town

0:26:44.280 --> 0:26:48.040
<v Speaker 2>and where she earns her livelihood and where she gets

0:26:48.080 --> 0:26:51.520
<v Speaker 2>her necessities has been ransacked by these people who were

0:26:51.600 --> 0:26:54.679
<v Speaker 2>rioting in the name of racial justice. And when I

0:26:54.720 --> 0:26:56.879
<v Speaker 2>tried to say, look, there are other people on the

0:26:56.960 --> 0:27:00.639
<v Speaker 2>side of this moral equation that we shouldn't ignore, the

0:27:00.760 --> 0:27:03.480
<v Speaker 2>thing that I heard over and over again was you're

0:27:03.520 --> 0:27:06.480
<v Speaker 2>not showing empathy, you're not having empathy. And of course

0:27:06.520 --> 0:27:09.720
<v Speaker 2>what they meant was is that I'm not putting all

0:27:09.760 --> 0:27:11.679
<v Speaker 2>my empathy in the direction that they want it to.

0:27:12.240 --> 0:27:14.480
<v Speaker 2>My empathy isn't going the way that they want it

0:27:14.520 --> 0:27:17.160
<v Speaker 2>to go. I'm supposed to apparently ignore the people over here,

0:27:17.280 --> 0:27:22.719
<v Speaker 2>ignore the facts, ignore the unanswered questions, and just unconditionally

0:27:22.800 --> 0:27:26.280
<v Speaker 2>support a cause because that is the empathetic way. I

0:27:26.320 --> 0:27:28.679
<v Speaker 2>was even told by some Christians that right now the

0:27:28.720 --> 0:27:32.320
<v Speaker 2>truth doesn't matter because we should just show empathy. So

0:27:32.359 --> 0:27:35.000
<v Speaker 2>that's really what started, you know, getting me to think

0:27:35.080 --> 0:27:40.000
<v Speaker 2>about things like, Okay, they're using empathy as a synonym

0:27:40.080 --> 0:27:43.800
<v Speaker 2>for love, but is it really loving to lie to someone?

0:27:43.880 --> 0:27:47.280
<v Speaker 2>Like if someone says I think all police officers are racist,

0:27:47.560 --> 0:27:51.520
<v Speaker 2>I think America is systemically racist from the core, that

0:27:51.680 --> 0:27:54.679
<v Speaker 2>everyone who is not white is disadvantaged, that we have

0:27:54.840 --> 0:27:58.719
<v Speaker 2>endemic white privilege, that the church is inherently white supremacist,

0:27:58.800 --> 0:28:02.719
<v Speaker 2>all this stuff. Someone believes that, Is it really loving

0:28:02.840 --> 0:28:05.439
<v Speaker 2>of me to affirm it? If I know that the

0:28:05.520 --> 0:28:07.480
<v Speaker 2>facts don't bear that out, and if I know that

0:28:07.480 --> 0:28:10.399
<v Speaker 2>that's not even a biblical definition of justice to lump

0:28:10.480 --> 0:28:14.000
<v Speaker 2>everyone in, you know, into a guilty category because of

0:28:14.040 --> 0:28:16.960
<v Speaker 2>their lack of melanin, is it really loving for me?

0:28:17.119 --> 0:28:20.320
<v Speaker 2>And the name of empathy to say, yeah, yeah, I

0:28:20.359 --> 0:28:22.439
<v Speaker 2>know you feel that way, and you are right about that,

0:28:22.680 --> 0:28:25.160
<v Speaker 2>and I am here with you. To me, that would

0:28:25.200 --> 0:28:28.240
<v Speaker 2>be like if my daughter, you know, three years old,

0:28:28.280 --> 0:28:30.800
<v Speaker 2>said there's a monster in the corner of her room.

0:28:31.000 --> 0:28:33.600
<v Speaker 2>I know it's a pile of clothes, but I say,

0:28:33.960 --> 0:28:36.760
<v Speaker 2>you should be scared. That is a monster and it's

0:28:36.760 --> 0:28:40.040
<v Speaker 2>gonna come get you. That's not loving. The loving thing

0:28:40.200 --> 0:28:42.000
<v Speaker 2>for me to do would be to turn the light

0:28:42.080 --> 0:28:47.600
<v Speaker 2>on now, not rudely, not aggressively, not discounting her feelings,

0:28:47.600 --> 0:28:50.800
<v Speaker 2>but saying, I love you so much, you're protected, you're safe.

0:28:51.160 --> 0:28:53.400
<v Speaker 2>Look at what this really is. And I know it's

0:28:53.440 --> 0:28:55.960
<v Speaker 2>a bit more complex and layered when we're talking about

0:28:56.000 --> 0:28:58.800
<v Speaker 2>all of these you know, racial issues in the United States,

0:28:58.840 --> 0:29:03.120
<v Speaker 2>which America has had. But that was what I wrestled

0:29:03.160 --> 0:29:05.320
<v Speaker 2>with so much in that summer of twenty twenty and

0:29:05.360 --> 0:29:08.440
<v Speaker 2>why what I tried to kind of like push back against.

0:29:08.520 --> 0:29:11.600
<v Speaker 2>And that is where this like when I realized, Wow,

0:29:11.840 --> 0:29:15.440
<v Speaker 2>this empathy, this being in one particular side feelings, one

0:29:15.520 --> 0:29:21.320
<v Speaker 2>purported victim's feelings and ignoring everything else, really is deluding

0:29:21.400 --> 0:29:24.719
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people and messing up their perception of

0:29:24.800 --> 0:29:28.200
<v Speaker 2>truth and justice and love and goodness, and then I

0:29:28.240 --> 0:29:31.120
<v Speaker 2>saw how it manifests itself in abortion and gender in

0:29:31.200 --> 0:29:33.680
<v Speaker 2>marriage and all of these other issues too, and that

0:29:33.840 --> 0:29:35.320
<v Speaker 2>was kind of the basis of my book.

0:29:36.640 --> 0:29:40.440
<v Speaker 1>It's it's fascinating because I've used that illustration similar with

0:29:40.520 --> 0:29:42.000
<v Speaker 1>my son Maverick, who's three me.

0:29:42.000 --> 0:29:42.280
<v Speaker 2>You have.

0:29:44.160 --> 0:29:48.240
<v Speaker 1>And when I'm talking to men that say they're they're

0:29:48.280 --> 0:29:50.040
<v Speaker 1>weak in their faith, or they've lost their faith, or

0:29:50.080 --> 0:29:53.160
<v Speaker 1>they they don't have a faith, I try to I

0:29:53.200 --> 0:29:56.280
<v Speaker 1>think of it in terms of if faith, having faith

0:29:56.320 --> 0:29:59.200
<v Speaker 1>would be to trust someone, then you could only trust

0:29:59.200 --> 0:30:01.520
<v Speaker 1>someone as far as you know them. And as God

0:30:01.560 --> 0:30:06.440
<v Speaker 1>has revealed himself through his word, we could learn to

0:30:06.520 --> 0:30:10.120
<v Speaker 1>trust him by learning more and more who he is

0:30:10.640 --> 0:30:14.000
<v Speaker 1>through his word. And I say, Maverick could be in

0:30:14.000 --> 0:30:16.520
<v Speaker 1>his room seeing shadows in the corner, and he could

0:30:16.880 --> 0:30:20.800
<v Speaker 1>call for me because he's scared, he's terrified. But all

0:30:20.840 --> 0:30:23.680
<v Speaker 1>I have to do is walk in there and say

0:30:24.080 --> 0:30:27.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm right here, it's okay. And he believes me because

0:30:27.720 --> 0:30:33.280
<v Speaker 1>he knows me, because he trusts me. And so many

0:30:33.280 --> 0:30:36.440
<v Speaker 1>times we could be scared of these these dark shadows,

0:30:37.320 --> 0:30:40.120
<v Speaker 1>and that would only be because we don't know who

0:30:40.200 --> 0:30:40.760
<v Speaker 1>is with us?

0:30:41.560 --> 0:30:41.760
<v Speaker 2>Right?

0:30:41.840 --> 0:30:45.320
<v Speaker 3>You took a huge step.

0:30:45.640 --> 0:30:47.920
<v Speaker 1>I believe you took a huge step with this book

0:30:48.040 --> 0:30:52.600
<v Speaker 1>because I open it up and I'm thinking, you know,

0:30:52.920 --> 0:30:55.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm wondering how you're going to lay this out. You

0:30:56.000 --> 0:31:00.000
<v Speaker 1>open it up to the contents, and it's like, oh,

0:31:00.280 --> 0:31:03.520
<v Speaker 1>this is all it says in the contents page introduction.

0:31:04.800 --> 0:31:09.600
<v Speaker 1>Lie number one, abortion is healthcare, Lie number two, trans

0:31:09.640 --> 0:31:12.600
<v Speaker 1>women or women, Lie number three, Love is love, Lie

0:31:12.720 --> 0:31:16.240
<v Speaker 1>number four, No human is illegal, Line number five, social

0:31:16.360 --> 0:31:17.360
<v Speaker 1>justice is justice.

0:31:17.600 --> 0:31:19.560
<v Speaker 3>Conclusion. That's it. That's the book.

0:31:20.080 --> 0:31:23.440
<v Speaker 1>And I was like, oh, man, she came with a sword.

0:31:23.880 --> 0:31:27.920
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you're not messing around. It's just five lives

0:31:28.280 --> 0:31:33.080
<v Speaker 1>and you unpack each other. You knew when you I

0:31:33.080 --> 0:31:34.680
<v Speaker 1>bet when the box came to your house and you

0:31:34.760 --> 0:31:36.720
<v Speaker 1>got this. You pulled this book out for the first time.

0:31:37.480 --> 0:31:41.840
<v Speaker 1>You must have been full of joy and at the

0:31:41.880 --> 0:31:45.720
<v Speaker 1>same time knowing the weight of what was going to

0:31:45.760 --> 0:31:49.600
<v Speaker 1>happen when this went out, because you're coming with a sword.

0:31:50.400 --> 0:31:54.240
<v Speaker 1>How how have you felt now that it's been for

0:31:54.320 --> 0:31:57.720
<v Speaker 1>five six months since it's been out. How have you

0:31:57.840 --> 0:32:01.800
<v Speaker 1>felt with the reaction? Are you cautious about reading some

0:32:01.840 --> 0:32:04.200
<v Speaker 1>of the reviews knowing that they're coming after you.

0:32:04.280 --> 0:32:05.440
<v Speaker 3>Are you so confident?

0:32:07.560 --> 0:32:12.360
<v Speaker 2>Uh, let's see. I honestly, I didn't really. I didn't

0:32:12.400 --> 0:32:15.240
<v Speaker 2>think about it like that. I didn't think, oh my gosh,

0:32:15.280 --> 0:32:17.920
<v Speaker 2>this is going to make such a huge impact and

0:32:18.040 --> 0:32:21.240
<v Speaker 2>so many people are going to be mad about this.

0:32:21.720 --> 0:32:24.120
<v Speaker 2>I knew that it was a possibility that the usual

0:32:24.160 --> 0:32:27.840
<v Speaker 2>suspects would be mad. Obviously, I knew progressives would not

0:32:28.160 --> 0:32:31.200
<v Speaker 2>like it. I actually the parts that I thought would

0:32:31.200 --> 0:32:35.320
<v Speaker 2>be a lot more controversial haven't really, as far as

0:32:35.360 --> 0:32:40.760
<v Speaker 2>I know, landed anywhere. Like, for example, my whole chapter

0:32:40.880 --> 0:32:45.000
<v Speaker 2>about same sex so called marriage or same sex unions

0:32:45.040 --> 0:32:49.320
<v Speaker 2>and why I really think Oberga Fell was the wrong decision.

0:32:49.560 --> 0:32:52.600
<v Speaker 2>I thought that that would make a bigger splash. My

0:32:52.720 --> 0:32:57.880
<v Speaker 2>social justice chapter where I say some very inconvenient facts

0:32:57.920 --> 0:33:01.720
<v Speaker 2>about crime and prison in the United States. I thought

0:33:01.880 --> 0:33:05.760
<v Speaker 2>that would be the thing that kind of ruffles some feathers.

0:33:07.240 --> 0:33:12.680
<v Speaker 2>But really what made people the angriest is just the title,

0:33:13.160 --> 0:33:18.880
<v Speaker 2>and I was not expecting that that people even though

0:33:18.880 --> 0:33:21.520
<v Speaker 2>the subtitle explains what I'm talking about that I'm not

0:33:21.600 --> 0:33:25.080
<v Speaker 2>saying that every form of empathy is toxic and that

0:33:25.240 --> 0:33:28.160
<v Speaker 2>all manifestations of empathy are toxic. That's you know, I

0:33:28.200 --> 0:33:33.080
<v Speaker 2>address that in the very introduction, but even the subtitle

0:33:33.120 --> 0:33:37.960
<v Speaker 2>that says how progressives exploit Christian compassion, that is what

0:33:38.000 --> 0:33:40.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm talking about, That this is a form of empathy

0:33:40.440 --> 0:33:43.560
<v Speaker 2>that has been hijacked and manipulated. Not that all empathy

0:33:43.720 --> 0:33:49.000
<v Speaker 2>is in itself toxic, but people have taken the title

0:33:49.400 --> 0:33:52.280
<v Speaker 2>and have said, you know, David French just put an

0:33:52.320 --> 0:33:55.479
<v Speaker 2>article out in the New York Times that you know,

0:33:55.680 --> 0:34:01.320
<v Speaker 2>people like Alibeth Stucky are against empathy and they're against

0:34:01.400 --> 0:34:05.960
<v Speaker 2>anyone using their empathy to think through issues, and all

0:34:06.040 --> 0:34:09.759
<v Speaker 2>kinds of people who just touch that title yes and

0:34:09.920 --> 0:34:13.040
<v Speaker 2>just say, oh, you know, she doesn't have any empathy.

0:34:13.200 --> 0:34:16.200
<v Speaker 2>She's against all empathy. People shouldn't have empathy for her

0:34:16.280 --> 0:34:20.640
<v Speaker 2>because she doesn't have empathy for anyone. I'm surprised at

0:34:20.680 --> 0:34:25.520
<v Speaker 2>how much conversation and dialogue and heated debate the title alone,

0:34:25.560 --> 0:34:29.560
<v Speaker 2>cause I'm thankful for it. I mean, every author wants

0:34:29.640 --> 0:34:32.080
<v Speaker 2>the title of their book to become kind of like

0:34:32.239 --> 0:34:35.319
<v Speaker 2>part of the lexicon and part of the dialogue. I

0:34:35.360 --> 0:34:38.160
<v Speaker 2>wish some of the people misrepresenting it would actually read

0:34:38.680 --> 0:34:41.239
<v Speaker 2>the book, even if they disagree, Like I'm fine with

0:34:41.320 --> 0:34:43.600
<v Speaker 2>the review from someone who says I didn't like it

0:34:43.640 --> 0:34:46.360
<v Speaker 2>because of X y Z, but read it, read it

0:34:46.440 --> 0:34:48.799
<v Speaker 2>beyond the first two words, but a lot of the

0:34:48.840 --> 0:34:52.120
<v Speaker 2>misrepresentations just aren't truthful. To answer your question, I don't

0:34:52.120 --> 0:34:55.520
<v Speaker 2>really read the I don't read the negative reviews.

0:34:55.840 --> 0:34:56.480
<v Speaker 1>I just don't.

0:34:56.840 --> 0:34:59.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I don't think that there's any like good

0:34:59.840 --> 0:35:00.480
<v Speaker 2>re too.

0:35:00.600 --> 0:35:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Honestly, you can't, and I don't think anybody would advise

0:35:06.200 --> 0:35:09.920
<v Speaker 1>you to it. It's not sustainable. I don't think we're

0:35:09.920 --> 0:35:14.200
<v Speaker 1>built to sit there and read random criticism from people

0:35:14.239 --> 0:35:17.000
<v Speaker 1>that we are so far disconnected with. We have no

0:35:17.080 --> 0:35:19.640
<v Speaker 1>idea who they are, where they live, or what their

0:35:19.680 --> 0:35:20.279
<v Speaker 1>worldview is.

0:35:20.320 --> 0:35:23.399
<v Speaker 3>We have no idea. It wouldn't be healthy at all.

0:35:24.200 --> 0:35:26.640
<v Speaker 1>It's fairly healthy to hear criticism from someone at the

0:35:26.640 --> 0:35:29.879
<v Speaker 1>grocery store in the right behind you in line, much

0:35:29.960 --> 0:35:32.720
<v Speaker 1>less someone that's in a different country that the English

0:35:32.760 --> 0:35:34.000
<v Speaker 1>is not even their first language.

0:35:34.880 --> 0:35:36.480
<v Speaker 3>So I was going, That's where I was going.

0:35:36.520 --> 0:35:40.279
<v Speaker 1>I was wondering, if you kind of what precautions you

0:35:40.360 --> 0:35:42.760
<v Speaker 1>put up for yourself to protect yourself.

0:35:42.880 --> 0:35:44.320
<v Speaker 3>I actually looked.

0:35:44.160 --> 0:35:48.359
<v Speaker 1>This morning and went through your Instagram from the last

0:35:48.360 --> 0:35:52.360
<v Speaker 1>couple of months, and I found one time that you

0:35:52.520 --> 0:35:56.000
<v Speaker 1>commented on one of your posts to someone else and

0:35:56.040 --> 0:35:58.360
<v Speaker 1>so that you could correct me if I'm wrong, But

0:35:58.400 --> 0:36:02.239
<v Speaker 1>I thought, I bet you she doesn't go back and

0:36:02.280 --> 0:36:05.120
<v Speaker 1>look and read through to protect yourself, which would be wise.

0:36:06.160 --> 0:36:10.640
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I try not to. Now there are times when

0:36:10.640 --> 0:36:13.000
<v Speaker 2>I have, and I was way worse about that when

0:36:13.000 --> 0:36:15.279
<v Speaker 2>I first started, like when I was just posting on

0:36:15.320 --> 0:36:18.200
<v Speaker 2>a blog, and like, I just think about that time wasted.

0:36:18.239 --> 0:36:20.640
<v Speaker 2>People need to remember that your time can either be

0:36:20.680 --> 0:36:23.279
<v Speaker 2>an expense or an investment, just like your finances. You

0:36:23.320 --> 0:36:24.960
<v Speaker 2>can either just spend it and waste it, or you

0:36:24.960 --> 0:36:27.120
<v Speaker 2>can get a return on it. And all of the

0:36:27.160 --> 0:36:30.719
<v Speaker 2>times that I have spent reading through comments and just

0:36:30.760 --> 0:36:33.719
<v Speaker 2>getting riled up about it is wasted time. It's really,

0:36:34.400 --> 0:36:37.920
<v Speaker 2>it's not redemptive time at all. Those are not seeds

0:36:37.920 --> 0:36:40.759
<v Speaker 2>that you know I've planned that will bloom an eternity.

0:36:40.800 --> 0:36:45.000
<v Speaker 2>That is like anxiety and worry and fear wasted. And

0:36:45.040 --> 0:36:48.640
<v Speaker 2>so you're right. I don't typically do that. And it's

0:36:48.680 --> 0:36:51.640
<v Speaker 2>not even just for that to protect my own piece.

0:36:52.120 --> 0:36:55.560
<v Speaker 2>It's because it's hard for me to have self control

0:36:55.800 --> 0:36:58.279
<v Speaker 2>when I want to respond to people, because I want

0:36:58.320 --> 0:37:01.120
<v Speaker 2>to match their sassiness. I want to be rude back

0:37:01.160 --> 0:37:03.640
<v Speaker 2>to them. I want to insult them back, and so

0:37:04.280 --> 0:37:06.680
<v Speaker 2>it you know, I mean, it inspire sin and so

0:37:07.160 --> 0:37:09.680
<v Speaker 2>I just don't. I just try not to. But I'll

0:37:09.719 --> 0:37:12.520
<v Speaker 2>tell you also like a little story, and this is

0:37:12.600 --> 0:37:15.400
<v Speaker 2>all part of the apparatus of trying to protect that.

0:37:15.680 --> 0:37:18.160
<v Speaker 2>My friend the other day, I actually don't really like

0:37:18.480 --> 0:37:20.600
<v Speaker 2>love it when this happens. But I had a friend

0:37:20.680 --> 0:37:23.520
<v Speaker 2>and you know, well meaning sent me something saying like,

0:37:23.600 --> 0:37:26.640
<v Speaker 2>did you see this like podcast that these two people

0:37:26.680 --> 0:37:30.319
<v Speaker 2>did about you, talking about you misrepresenting you? And I

0:37:30.360 --> 0:37:33.680
<v Speaker 2>was like, no, I didn't see that. And so I

0:37:33.719 --> 0:37:37.279
<v Speaker 2>whipped at my husband and I was like, hey, did

0:37:37.320 --> 0:37:38.719
<v Speaker 2>you see this? And he was like, oh, yeah, I

0:37:38.760 --> 0:37:41.000
<v Speaker 2>listened to it yesterday. He was like I wanted to

0:37:41.080 --> 0:37:43.479
<v Speaker 2>listen to it just to see like if they said

0:37:43.480 --> 0:37:46.520
<v Speaker 2>anything or you know, if there was any like response

0:37:46.560 --> 0:37:48.719
<v Speaker 2>to you. It was fine, They're just stupid and don't

0:37:48.719 --> 0:37:52.680
<v Speaker 2>worry about it. And so that like I feel very

0:37:52.920 --> 0:37:56.960
<v Speaker 2>covered and like protected that. My husband is like fielding

0:37:57.000 --> 0:37:59.080
<v Speaker 2>a lot of that criticism. He's not responding to them,

0:37:59.400 --> 0:38:02.560
<v Speaker 2>but he's can out and I don't feel like if

0:38:02.600 --> 0:38:04.120
<v Speaker 2>he doesn't feel like there's a threat. That's the only

0:38:04.160 --> 0:38:06.080
<v Speaker 2>thing I'm worried about. Is there a threat to my kids?

0:38:06.120 --> 0:38:08.400
<v Speaker 2>Is there a threat to us? Is there some like

0:38:08.480 --> 0:38:12.000
<v Speaker 2>crazy lie going on out there? And I feel that

0:38:12.080 --> 0:38:15.600
<v Speaker 2>he is looking out for that, and if he's doing that,

0:38:15.680 --> 0:38:17.880
<v Speaker 2>then I don't need to worry about it at all.

0:38:18.040 --> 0:38:22.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, amen, that's great. I do feel like Amber covers

0:38:22.000 --> 0:38:24.719
<v Speaker 1>a lot for me as well. In a similar way.

0:38:24.880 --> 0:38:28.160
<v Speaker 1>I'll see something really negative or something that's kind of

0:38:28.200 --> 0:38:34.719
<v Speaker 1>growing virally about me, and Amber will always be like, oh, yeah, yeah.

0:38:34.640 --> 0:38:35.520
<v Speaker 3>I saw it.

0:38:35.800 --> 0:38:38.120
<v Speaker 1>I wasn't gonna say anything about it, you know, so

0:38:38.320 --> 0:38:41.160
<v Speaker 1>Cheryl catch it before I do. And then does that

0:38:41.200 --> 0:38:43.239
<v Speaker 1>ever come up in the church? Are you pastored in

0:38:43.280 --> 0:38:45.960
<v Speaker 1>that way? Do you ever have an elder coming? And

0:38:46.640 --> 0:38:49.440
<v Speaker 1>is that ever a discussion through your husband?

0:38:50.120 --> 0:38:54.120
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well there was. I can think of a couple instances,

0:38:54.160 --> 0:38:56.919
<v Speaker 2>and maybe there's been more over the years. But when

0:38:57.480 --> 0:39:00.400
<v Speaker 2>last year, a couple of years ago, I was duly

0:39:00.480 --> 0:39:03.080
<v Speaker 2>catching a lot of heat, all these all of a sudden,

0:39:03.200 --> 0:39:04.720
<v Speaker 2>these like or it seems like all of a sudden

0:39:04.719 --> 0:39:07.200
<v Speaker 2>to me. These critics came out being like she's an

0:39:07.280 --> 0:39:10.120
<v Speaker 2>undercover feminist because she has a podcast and women shouldn't

0:39:10.160 --> 0:39:14.120
<v Speaker 2>be podcasting, they shouldn't be talking about cultural issues at all.

0:39:14.239 --> 0:39:16.440
<v Speaker 2>And all of a sudden, it seems like there was

0:39:16.520 --> 0:39:20.239
<v Speaker 2>just this growing group of people who I would have thought, Okay,

0:39:20.239 --> 0:39:22.560
<v Speaker 2>we're on the same team, we're both Christian conservatives, being like,

0:39:22.600 --> 0:39:25.239
<v Speaker 2>no one should listen to her simply because she's a woman.

0:39:25.320 --> 0:39:27.560
<v Speaker 2>This is a culture war. Women shouldn't be fighting battles.

0:39:27.600 --> 0:39:30.439
<v Speaker 2>And I'm like, I'm just talking. This is I mean,

0:39:30.760 --> 0:39:32.879
<v Speaker 2>it's a metaphor, this is not literal battle. I agree

0:39:32.920 --> 0:39:36.080
<v Speaker 2>women shouldn't be in combat, but we're talking here and so,

0:39:37.000 --> 0:39:40.200
<v Speaker 2>but that was very stressful because it wasn't just progressive

0:39:40.200 --> 0:39:42.759
<v Speaker 2>as being like, oh, she's pro life or something, because

0:39:42.760 --> 0:39:45.280
<v Speaker 2>I understand those people have a different worldview. It's people

0:39:45.360 --> 0:39:48.359
<v Speaker 2>kind of on my team and it and it went

0:39:48.400 --> 0:39:51.600
<v Speaker 2>into the personal realm of oh wow, like am I

0:39:51.680 --> 0:39:53.840
<v Speaker 2>good mom? Am I good wife? Am I like a

0:39:53.920 --> 0:39:57.359
<v Speaker 2>following Ephesians five? Like all of this stuff. It kind

0:39:57.360 --> 0:40:00.279
<v Speaker 2>of cut deep as someone who doesn't even believe women

0:40:00.360 --> 0:40:03.040
<v Speaker 2>should be pastors, women should preach. I don't call myself

0:40:03.040 --> 0:40:05.839
<v Speaker 2>a feminist. I'm very much a complimentarian. To have these

0:40:05.840 --> 0:40:10.440
<v Speaker 2>people who call themselves beyond complimentarian say you know, I'm

0:40:10.480 --> 0:40:12.640
<v Speaker 2>too liberal. That kind of hurt me, and I just

0:40:12.680 --> 0:40:17.760
<v Speaker 2>remember my pastor very like kind of subtly, but clearly

0:40:18.000 --> 0:40:21.880
<v Speaker 2>and directly. He just you know, came up to my

0:40:22.000 --> 0:40:25.000
<v Speaker 2>husband and me after the sermon one day it was like,

0:40:25.040 --> 0:40:28.560
<v Speaker 2>I just want you to know, like, sorry, I'm not

0:40:28.600 --> 0:40:29.919
<v Speaker 2>about to cry. I just got something.

0:40:30.880 --> 0:40:31.279
<v Speaker 3>I get it.

0:40:35.239 --> 0:40:36.799
<v Speaker 2>He just said, you know, I just want you to

0:40:36.880 --> 0:40:40.880
<v Speaker 2>know that we are with you, and we believe that

0:40:40.960 --> 0:40:43.839
<v Speaker 2>what you are doing and how y'all are organizing your

0:40:43.960 --> 0:40:46.959
<v Speaker 2>life is right and good and we support you one

0:40:47.040 --> 0:40:51.160
<v Speaker 2>hundred percent. He's also very protective of, like our privacy.

0:40:51.280 --> 0:40:53.640
<v Speaker 2>There have been times where he's been like, can I

0:40:53.719 --> 0:40:56.720
<v Speaker 2>like direct people towards your you know, towards your podcast

0:40:56.760 --> 0:40:58.880
<v Speaker 2>before the election and stuff, or do you want you

0:40:58.920 --> 0:41:01.239
<v Speaker 2>know to be private? But he's been very supportive. And

0:41:01.280 --> 0:41:03.120
<v Speaker 2>then when my book came out and some of the

0:41:03.160 --> 0:41:05.759
<v Speaker 2>criticism that I got from people like Russell Moore and

0:41:05.840 --> 0:41:11.239
<v Speaker 2>David French and all of that was out there, the

0:41:11.360 --> 0:41:14.680
<v Speaker 2>executive pastor also kind of had a conversation with my

0:41:14.800 --> 0:41:18.239
<v Speaker 2>husband and me after service one day and was like,

0:41:18.400 --> 0:41:21.200
<v Speaker 2>I read your book. I think it's brave it's good,

0:41:21.239 --> 0:41:24.080
<v Speaker 2>it's biblical. Thank you for writing it, and that like

0:41:24.160 --> 0:41:27.120
<v Speaker 2>coming from your pastors, it just means a lot. It

0:41:27.160 --> 0:41:30.640
<v Speaker 2>means a lot, and so you just feel very protected

0:41:31.160 --> 0:41:34.440
<v Speaker 2>on a variety of fronts family church, and again that

0:41:34.680 --> 0:41:38.359
<v Speaker 2>insulates you from a lot, a lot of the craziness

0:41:38.440 --> 0:41:41.560
<v Speaker 2>and just the exhaustion that comes with the whole news

0:41:41.560 --> 0:41:42.600
<v Speaker 2>and politics world.

0:41:43.920 --> 0:41:45.680
<v Speaker 3>That is so encouraging to hear.

0:41:47.719 --> 0:41:49.600
<v Speaker 1>It sounds like you have a very faithful church, and

0:41:49.640 --> 0:41:51.759
<v Speaker 1>I you know, to come full circle in this conversation,

0:41:52.440 --> 0:41:56.360
<v Speaker 1>why it is so important for everybody, not just a

0:41:57.520 --> 0:42:01.240
<v Speaker 1>famous podcaster like yourself, but for anybody to be surrounded

0:42:01.239 --> 0:42:04.880
<v Speaker 1>by wise counsel, to be under expositional teaching, to be

0:42:05.239 --> 0:42:09.720
<v Speaker 1>under a in the body of a group of believers

0:42:09.719 --> 0:42:12.800
<v Speaker 1>that are holding each other accountable in all the different aspects.

0:42:12.840 --> 0:42:14.919
<v Speaker 1>I mean you, you, as a member of your church,

0:42:15.280 --> 0:42:18.560
<v Speaker 1>are different than the person sitting right down the aisle.

0:42:18.880 --> 0:42:21.279
<v Speaker 1>But that's how a body is. That eye is different.

0:42:21.040 --> 0:42:21.560
<v Speaker 3>Than the hand.

0:42:21.640 --> 0:42:24.920
<v Speaker 1>And and so to hear that you're pastored well, to

0:42:24.960 --> 0:42:28.120
<v Speaker 1>hear that your husband is your your business manager, that

0:42:28.160 --> 0:42:33.439
<v Speaker 1>your kids travel with you, so encouraging and inspiring and

0:42:34.400 --> 0:42:38.720
<v Speaker 1>evident in the boldness and the truthfulness that you speak

0:42:38.760 --> 0:42:41.720
<v Speaker 1>with in your program and all in your social media.

0:42:42.840 --> 0:42:47.520
<v Speaker 1>Knowing that that's grounded on a a team of people

0:42:47.600 --> 0:42:54.120
<v Speaker 1>that love you is encouraging to know that you're in

0:42:54.160 --> 0:42:54.920
<v Speaker 1>good hands.

0:42:55.239 --> 0:42:58.080
<v Speaker 2>Well, thank you. I appreciate that so much. And I

0:42:58.520 --> 0:43:00.680
<v Speaker 2>also all of this gives me a lot of freedom.

0:43:00.719 --> 0:43:05.040
<v Speaker 2>I think what also makes me feel bold is that

0:43:05.360 --> 0:43:09.040
<v Speaker 2>I truly feel like if at any point I was like,

0:43:09.239 --> 0:43:11.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to do this anymore, I don't want

0:43:11.200 --> 0:43:13.760
<v Speaker 2>to do this, then I totally could. I don't feel

0:43:13.800 --> 0:43:18.400
<v Speaker 2>any pressure from my husband or anyone to like keep going.

0:43:18.600 --> 0:43:21.200
<v Speaker 2>And he has always told me he wants he wants

0:43:21.200 --> 0:43:23.040
<v Speaker 2>to do this one. We love working together, we love

0:43:23.120 --> 0:43:27.879
<v Speaker 2>building things together. But he's always said, it's the love

0:43:28.000 --> 0:43:31.000
<v Speaker 2>for what I do goes beyond being willing to do

0:43:31.040 --> 0:43:32.799
<v Speaker 2>it for free, like I would pay to do it.

0:43:32.840 --> 0:43:34.640
<v Speaker 2>That's what he's always said, like he would pay to

0:43:34.719 --> 0:43:38.120
<v Speaker 2>do what you do. And he's always just wanted to

0:43:38.560 --> 0:43:42.160
<v Speaker 2>support that as much as possible. But he has always said,

0:43:42.360 --> 0:43:45.280
<v Speaker 2>if you don't want to do that at any point,

0:43:45.760 --> 0:43:49.200
<v Speaker 2>don't stop. We'll figure it out. And that, I mean,

0:43:49.200 --> 0:43:52.200
<v Speaker 2>there's just so much freedom in that and beauty in

0:43:52.280 --> 0:43:56.760
<v Speaker 2>that too. So yes, I'm very very grateful.

0:43:57.040 --> 0:43:59.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're holding it with an open hand. And the

0:43:59.400 --> 0:44:02.759
<v Speaker 1>minute you start closing that fist around it, you're going

0:44:02.800 --> 0:44:05.560
<v Speaker 1>to chase things harder, You're going to dig deeper, you're

0:44:05.600 --> 0:44:07.840
<v Speaker 1>going to be try to be more controversial than you

0:44:07.960 --> 0:44:10.120
<v Speaker 1>need to be. Yeah, And so the fact that you're

0:44:10.120 --> 0:44:14.600
<v Speaker 1>holding it loosely is I believe biblical and and and

0:44:14.760 --> 0:44:18.719
<v Speaker 1>that's why I believe you're as happy as you are

0:44:18.920 --> 0:44:21.719
<v Speaker 1>because you just seem with all the things going on,

0:44:21.760 --> 0:44:25.719
<v Speaker 1>you could easily be jaded and depressed and you know, frazzled,

0:44:25.760 --> 0:44:28.640
<v Speaker 1>and you just you kind of just always seem level

0:44:29.400 --> 0:44:34.799
<v Speaker 1>and that's encouraging. Let me ask you, did you did

0:44:34.800 --> 0:44:36.840
<v Speaker 1>you have a radical conversion or do you Are you

0:44:36.880 --> 0:44:38.800
<v Speaker 1>one of those that just you grew up in a

0:44:38.880 --> 0:44:42.560
<v Speaker 1>Christian home and you you can't remember a time when

0:44:42.600 --> 0:44:43.680
<v Speaker 1>you're not you're not a Christian.

0:44:44.640 --> 0:44:47.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I would not call it a radical conversion, and

0:44:47.520 --> 0:44:49.840
<v Speaker 2>I was definitely raised in a Christian home. Very thankful

0:44:49.880 --> 0:44:54.120
<v Speaker 2>for that. I will say that there was some back tracking,

0:44:54.160 --> 0:44:55.880
<v Speaker 2>if you would even call it that. I want to

0:44:55.880 --> 0:44:58.520
<v Speaker 2>be as accurate as possible, but there was a time

0:44:58.560 --> 0:45:01.080
<v Speaker 2>in college and a little bit after and I write

0:45:01.080 --> 0:45:05.120
<v Speaker 2>about this in my first book, where I just decided

0:45:05.320 --> 0:45:08.480
<v Speaker 2>that I wanted to see what the party life was about.

0:45:08.640 --> 0:45:11.000
<v Speaker 2>And it was very stupid and even though you know,

0:45:11.040 --> 0:45:12.960
<v Speaker 2>some people would laugh like, oh, that's what everyone does

0:45:12.960 --> 0:45:16.240
<v Speaker 2>in college, and yeah, that's you know, what college students

0:45:16.239 --> 0:45:18.839
<v Speaker 2>should do, at least it was isolated to that. I

0:45:18.880 --> 0:45:20.759
<v Speaker 2>don't think of it like that. I don't think of

0:45:20.800 --> 0:45:22.400
<v Speaker 2>that period of time in my life when I was

0:45:22.440 --> 0:45:25.520
<v Speaker 2>twenty one twenty two and I decided to party and

0:45:25.600 --> 0:45:29.319
<v Speaker 2>rely on like unhealthy relationships for attention as just like

0:45:30.520 --> 0:45:33.480
<v Speaker 2>this trivial time. I see it as time wasted. I

0:45:34.000 --> 0:45:36.000
<v Speaker 2>don't beat myself up about it every day, because I'm

0:45:36.000 --> 0:45:38.120
<v Speaker 2>thankful for the grace of God and how He's redeemed

0:45:38.160 --> 0:45:40.439
<v Speaker 2>me and all of that. But what makes me sad

0:45:40.480 --> 0:45:44.280
<v Speaker 2>about it is that I knew better and I still

0:45:44.320 --> 0:45:47.120
<v Speaker 2>decided to go down that path. I ended up developing

0:45:47.160 --> 0:45:50.000
<v Speaker 2>an eating disorder that ended up God ended up using

0:45:50.000 --> 0:45:53.000
<v Speaker 2>that to actually like bring me back because a biblical

0:45:53.040 --> 0:45:57.600
<v Speaker 2>counselor spoke truth into my life because of that addiction

0:45:57.920 --> 0:46:02.480
<v Speaker 2>that I had. But I just I really see that

0:46:02.640 --> 0:46:05.600
<v Speaker 2>period of like just sin and rebellion in my life,

0:46:05.840 --> 0:46:08.240
<v Speaker 2>with a lot of like, with a lot of sadness,

0:46:08.280 --> 0:46:10.520
<v Speaker 2>a lot of gratitude for God for just being so

0:46:10.680 --> 0:46:15.360
<v Speaker 2>gracious and bringing me back and just being as forgiving

0:46:15.800 --> 0:46:19.719
<v Speaker 2>and kind as he is. But I think I think

0:46:19.760 --> 0:46:21.960
<v Speaker 2>it's good. I'm glad I feel sad about that time.

0:46:22.000 --> 0:46:24.600
<v Speaker 2>I think we should always feel sad about sin. I

0:46:24.600 --> 0:46:27.560
<v Speaker 2>think we should always feel that grief about it. And

0:46:27.600 --> 0:46:30.040
<v Speaker 2>it also has given me a lot of I hope,

0:46:30.120 --> 0:46:35.160
<v Speaker 2>wisdom to be able to equip my daughters for whenever,

0:46:35.480 --> 0:46:37.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, whatever they go out into the world and

0:46:37.680 --> 0:46:40.759
<v Speaker 2>whatever that looks like. It's so easy to trivialize sin

0:46:40.800 --> 0:46:44.400
<v Speaker 2>when you're young. It's not trivial. Like sin is never trivial.

0:46:44.480 --> 0:46:46.800
<v Speaker 2>It's never trivial. That's what I want to tell people.

0:46:46.840 --> 0:46:50.360
<v Speaker 2>It's ver small and so yeah, I don't know if

0:46:50.400 --> 0:46:52.520
<v Speaker 2>I would call that a radical conversion. But I also

0:46:52.560 --> 0:46:54.200
<v Speaker 2>can't say that it was a straight line from A

0:46:54.239 --> 0:46:56.359
<v Speaker 2>to b if a testimony, ever, is a straight line

0:46:56.360 --> 0:46:59.640
<v Speaker 2>from A to B. Yeah, And you know, God works

0:46:59.640 --> 0:47:02.480
<v Speaker 2>all things together for our good and his glory, and

0:47:02.520 --> 0:47:04.920
<v Speaker 2>even that part of my life he has and will.

0:47:05.840 --> 0:47:08.960
<v Speaker 2>But yes, there was that period of just turning my

0:47:09.040 --> 0:47:12.440
<v Speaker 2>back on things in college that i'm yeah, still sad about.

0:47:12.960 --> 0:47:16.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's good because a small view of sin is

0:47:16.960 --> 0:47:19.839
<v Speaker 1>always a result of a small view of God and

0:47:20.600 --> 0:47:23.600
<v Speaker 1>your sans these is always a big view of God

0:47:23.760 --> 0:47:25.920
<v Speaker 1>and so on.

0:47:25.960 --> 0:47:26.839
<v Speaker 3>Behalf of so many.

0:47:26.960 --> 0:47:30.520
<v Speaker 1>I say thank you and I'm honored that you spent

0:47:30.640 --> 0:47:33.560
<v Speaker 1>some of your valuable time with me on the pod today.

0:47:33.640 --> 0:47:36.080
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, thank you. Great talking with you again.

0:47:36.120 --> 0:47:36.759
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much.

0:47:36.840 --> 0:47:38.440
<v Speaker 2>Yes, it was a joy to talk to you. Thank

0:47:38.480 --> 0:47:39.480
<v Speaker 2>you so much for having me.

0:47:39.719 --> 0:47:43.160
<v Speaker 1>Of course, thanks for joining me on the Grangersmith podcast.

0:47:43.239 --> 0:47:44.719
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate all of you.

0:47:44.760 --> 0:47:45.080
<v Speaker 3>Guys.

0:47:45.120 --> 0:47:48.040
<v Speaker 1>You could help me out by rating this podcast on iTunes.

0:47:48.360 --> 0:47:51.400
<v Speaker 1>If you're on YouTube, subscribe to this channel, hit that

0:47:51.440 --> 0:47:54.839
<v Speaker 1>little like button and notification spell so that you never

0:47:54.960 --> 0:47:58.400
<v Speaker 1>miss anytime I upload a video. Yigi