Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with you.
Speaker 2: Matthew McKay is a clinical psychologist, a professor of psychology
Speaker 2: at the Right Institute, co founder of the Hay Cashburry
Speaker 2: Psychological Services, founder of the Berkeley CBT Clinic, and co
Speaker 2: founder of the Bay Area Trauma Recovery Clinic, which serves
Speaker 2: low income clients. He has authored and co authored a
Speaker 2: number of books forty plus including the Relaxation and Stress
Speaker 2: Reduction work Book, and is the most recent one, Lessons
Speaker 2: from the Afterlife. Matthew, welcome back.
Speaker 3: How have you been been good. It's great to speak
Speaker 3: with you again, George.
Speaker 2: Last time we were on about three years ago, we
Speaker 2: were talking about your work, The Luminous Landscape of the Afterlife.
Speaker 2: I had a great time with you.
Speaker 3: That's right. We were talking about that and Jordan pretty
Speaker 3: much wrote that book and in it he was describing,
Speaker 3: you know, the spirit world in detail and what do
Speaker 3: expect and how to prepare for the transition. But now
Speaker 3: he has something new he wants to really take a
Speaker 3: look at, you know, to explain the purpose of the
Speaker 3: physical universe. You know, these planets, we live on it,
Speaker 3: why we come here? So's he's got a whole new
Speaker 3: thing that he wants to share with people.
Speaker 2: Explain to our new listeners, Matthew, who Jordan is?
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you? So Jordan is my son. Fifteen years ago,
Speaker 3: he was bicycling home from work. He was attacked on
Speaker 3: the street. Four men attacked him, probably to try to
Speaker 3: steal his bicycle. There's a tremendous physical fight that ensued.
Speaker 3: Eventually he turned and moved away from them. They shot
Speaker 3: him in the black. He died on the street. And
Speaker 3: what happened, of course, to me, is what happens to
Speaker 3: anyone who loses someone they loved deeply. I had this
Speaker 3: tremendous need to know did Jordans still exist, and if so,
Speaker 3: was the okay? And and that set me on this
Speaker 3: journey to find him, and began with, you know, going
Speaker 3: to mediums and learning what they could they could tell me.
Speaker 3: Although that was uncomfortable and it felt like I wasn't
Speaker 3: I wasn't part of a conversation. I was just hearing
Speaker 3: from him through them, uh, And so I thought him
Speaker 3: in other ways. I went to see doctor Alan Botkin
Speaker 3: in Chicago, who had discovered something called induced after death communication,
Speaker 3: which is a variant of E M d R. I
Speaker 3: had moved into sensitization processing, which I used with my clients.
Speaker 3: I'm a psychologist, I worked with trauma and I use
Speaker 3: em DR, and so he had had accidentally fallen into
Speaker 3: a small variant of the protocol. I went to Chicago.
Speaker 3: I experienced induced after death communication, and for the first
Speaker 3: time that Jordan's of death, I heard his voice. He
Speaker 3: was there, he was in the room, and he was
Speaker 3: telling me the things that I deeply needed to know.
Speaker 3: He's with you, I love you, I'm watching over you,
Speaker 3: and I'm good. I'm in a good place. I'm safe
Speaker 3: and happy. Well, that made a big difference for me.
Speaker 3: I felt some of the grief lifting, but I still
Speaker 3: had this tremendous need to have a conversation, not just
Speaker 3: a one way experience, but to have a conversation, to
Speaker 3: be able to ask him questions, to be able to
Speaker 3: explore things with him. And so I consulted the late
Speaker 3: Ralph Messner, who was a specialist in the afterlife. He
Speaker 3: taught me how to do channel communication, and that is
Speaker 3: what opened the door for me finally to be able
Speaker 3: to talk to Jordan, and I've had hundreds of conversations
Speaker 3: with him through channel communications that have you know, been
Speaker 3: profound and meant so much to me. The things he answered,
Speaker 3: so many questions, He's blown my mind. He's described things
Speaker 3: that I had no about, knowledge of, or never prepared
Speaker 3: to be able to understand until these communications. So it's
Speaker 3: been an extraordinary journey with him. And this latest book
Speaker 3: is his attempt to explain why we have the physical uners,
Speaker 3: why are we here, what are we doing here, what's
Speaker 3: this all about? And so it's made a real impact
Speaker 3: on me. The other thing also that he's wanting to
Speaker 3: do is teach something called deep knowledge meditation, and so
Speaker 3: people can connect to their own soul knowledge, their higher self,
Speaker 3: their accumulated soul wisdom, and this meant will allow them
Speaker 3: to actually connect to that. It's part of our energy,
Speaker 3: our soul energy always lives in the afterlife. And even
Speaker 3: though we come here and part of our solergy energy
Speaker 3: energy these bodies and we have amnesia and we can't
Speaker 3: remember of our past lives or any of the experiences
Speaker 3: in the afterlife, the part of this is always there
Speaker 3: in the afterlife. And we can communicate to that part
Speaker 3: that has full awareness and memory of all of our
Speaker 3: past lives, all of what we've learned in the spirit world,
Speaker 3: and so it's possible to use this communication to actually
Speaker 3: connect to the part of us that remembers everything.
Speaker 2: Matthew, when you first made the contact with Jordan, how
Speaker 2: did you react.
Speaker 3: Well? The experience of the IADC induced after death communication
Speaker 3: with Bocket was I was flabbergasted. I was overwhelmed to
Speaker 3: hear his voice and to hear the things that he
Speaker 3: said to me. When I learned how to do channel communication,
Speaker 3: it was profoundly moving to me because he was saying things.
Speaker 3: I could feel his love, I could feel him in
Speaker 3: my body, and I could see and he was saying
Speaker 3: things that I had never imagined before. And we're not
Speaker 3: just enlightening but mind blowing, and so that those early
Speaker 3: experiences were full of emotion, full of love, and full
Speaker 3: of discovery for me.
Speaker 2: Did it calm you down?
Speaker 3: Yes? Because what I learned was that Jordan was just
Speaker 3: a thought away. I hadn't lost him. Death doesn't and
Speaker 3: the love and the relationship that we have, In fact,
Speaker 3: the love and the relationship was as strong as ever
Speaker 3: and I could make contact with him anytime I wanted to,
Speaker 3: and so it changed my whole understanding of death. And
Speaker 3: what it did is it recreated or re established my
Speaker 3: relationship with him, and it continues all these fifteen years.
Speaker 3: We talk at least once a week we have, and
Speaker 3: those conversations can be varied. He can advise me and
Speaker 3: guide me, but also he can tell me amazing things
Speaker 3: about the universe and our role within it. So it's
Speaker 3: been an experience that has changed my understanding of what
Speaker 3: death is and what relationship and love is in the
Speaker 3: face of death.
Speaker 2: Who initiates the initial contact, Matthew, Jordan or you.
Speaker 3: Well, typically I will establish contact with him. I sit
Speaker 3: at a desk that's familiar and feels safe, and there's
Speaker 3: a little ritual I go through. I could describe that
Speaker 3: if anybody's interested, because it's pretty easy to channel. Almost
Speaker 3: anybody can channel, and I've caught taught hundreds of people
Speaker 3: to do it. So I can initiate the contact with
Speaker 3: a small ritual. But it's not uncommon for Jordan to
Speaker 3: start a conversation with me spontaneously, and oftentimes he will
Speaker 3: start talking to me when I'm about to do something
Speaker 3: really stupid. And he will speak and say what don't
Speaker 3: do that, or wait a minute, or do this instead,
Speaker 3: and so often as he will initiate, but you'll initiate
Speaker 3: when I'm involved in something that that's you know, kind
Speaker 3: of heading in the wrong direction.
Speaker 2: What does your wife Jude think of your contact.
Speaker 3: Well, she's very grateful for it. I read to her
Speaker 3: all of the things that he says, all of the
Speaker 3: communications that come from him. She makes contact with him
Speaker 3: in a different way. She feels his presence in a
Speaker 3: different way. She feels it in her body. She feels
Speaker 3: she has an awareness of him, and he communicates to
Speaker 3: her telepathy, but not in this channel communication process. So
Speaker 3: she's grateful for it, but she has her own path
Speaker 3: to him.
Speaker 2: Explain what the deep knowledge meditation is and how can
Speaker 2: people access that?
Speaker 3: Okay, so it's actually fairly simple. What it starts with
Speaker 3: a question. You want to ask a question and just
Speaker 3: begin with you know. And the question could be anything
Speaker 3: you know, like, you know, should I you know, should
Speaker 3: I invest in some kind of new enterprise or not?
Speaker 3: Or the question could be you know, what's the nature
Speaker 3: of the divine? What's you know? What is God? In
Speaker 3: other words, you could go from the sublime to the
Speaker 3: very simple and earth bound. Any question you want to ask,
Speaker 3: you can ask your higher self, the part of your
Speaker 3: soul that's always in the spirit world. So what you
Speaker 3: do is you begin by bringing your attention down to
Speaker 3: your diaphragm, to your breath, the center of your life,
Speaker 3: and just bring all of your attention to that part
Speaker 3: of your body. And as you observe your breath, you
Speaker 3: simply note it and the in breath you save yourself
Speaker 3: in on the out breath, you say out, and you
Speaker 3: just note the end and the out of your breath.
Speaker 3: Just continue to watch your breath, and when thoughts show up,
Speaker 3: notice the thought as soon as you can, and then
Speaker 3: bring your attention back to your breath. Thoughts always do
Speaker 3: show up, that's okay, But as soon as they do,
Speaker 3: as soon as you notice it, bring your attention back
Speaker 3: to the breath. Now, after a little while, you'll find
Speaker 3: your mind starting to slow down, and you're going to
Speaker 3: find that there's a kind of a quietness and and
Speaker 3: and an openness that you begin to feel. And that's
Speaker 3: where the channel can open to your higher self, to
Speaker 3: your to your soul. It's always in the spirit world.
Speaker 2: Matthew, where would you Where would you say, Jordan's is
Speaker 2: Where is his soul? Where is his consciousness? Where is he?
Speaker 3: Well, his consciousness is typically in the spirit world, although
Speaker 3: it could move around in the spirit world, and his
Speaker 3: consciousness can come to Earth and he can he can
Speaker 3: move his consciousness to Earth at any time. In fact,
Speaker 3: he can move his consciousness any planet uh in in
Speaker 3: the universe uh and observe it. So the consciousness of
Speaker 3: souls can move instantly kind of wherever they directed. So
Speaker 3: he can be his consciousness can be in the spirit
Speaker 3: world and he can be involved with his soul group. There,
Speaker 3: he get involved in learning and can be reviewing the
Speaker 3: caution record. He can be learning some of his spiritual
Speaker 3: career work, which has a lot to do with guidance
Speaker 3: and guiding. But he can also bring his awareness right
Speaker 3: here right and he's in fact is right here right
Speaker 3: now with me, helping me with this.
Speaker 2: Interview, giving your points right.
Speaker 3: He does. He gives me part and also he helps
Speaker 3: you with my clients. There are times when I'm at
Speaker 3: a loss and I'm not sure really what to do
Speaker 3: or where to go with a client. I'll ask him
Speaker 3: and he'll have something to say, which is almost universally helpful.
Speaker 3: So he can be present. His consciousness can come to
Speaker 3: me at anytime. I can ask for it, and I
Speaker 3: can open the door by just simply thinking of him.
Speaker 3: I can ask him a question, his consciousness will come
Speaker 3: to me. So consciousness, once we leave our bodies, is
Speaker 3: very fluid, and it can move around instantly simply by
Speaker 3: the intention to go somewhere. We don't have to rely
Speaker 3: on legs and you know, the the effort of muscles
Speaker 3: to do any movement. Consciousness moves simply by intention. Consciousnessays
Speaker 3: I want to go here, and it's there. It's their
Speaker 3: instant And that's how Jordan can show up here.
Speaker 2: What does he think of God? Does that subject ever
Speaker 2: come up?
Speaker 3: Yes, it does, and it's come up in ways that
Speaker 3: have kind of have been very different. You know. I
Speaker 3: grew up and went to Catholic school, and I had
Speaker 3: a picture of God, you know, as a little you know,
Speaker 3: perfect and all powerful and has always existed, and uh,
Speaker 3: you know, so they're there and and sits in the
Speaker 3: seat of judgment and evaluates whether we're good or bad,
Speaker 3: and whether we're going to go to even hell and
Speaker 3: all of that, none of it is true according to you.
Speaker 3: Gordon's descriptions to me. When he talks about the Divine,
Speaker 3: he says that you know that God actually has not
Speaker 3: always existed. God evolved out of primal energy and eventually
Speaker 3: into into light, and then the light became self aware.
Speaker 3: And and so God or the Divine or all, whatever
Speaker 3: you want to call it, has not always existed. And
Speaker 3: and God and all continues to grow and evolve, and
Speaker 3: so it's not perfect. It's continuing to evolve as a consciousness.
Speaker 3: The other thing that was different that he explains to
Speaker 3: me is that we are all God, all of the piece,
Speaker 3: all of the human humans. The souls have been created
Speaker 3: by All, but they also are part of all. We
Speaker 3: are God, and so that is a very different picture
Speaker 3: than I got growing up in Catholic school. That and
Speaker 3: we can't be cast out, we can't be judged, we
Speaker 3: can't be sent to some purgatory or hell, because we
Speaker 3: are God and we're always going to be God and
Speaker 3: we're always going to be with God. So again it's
Speaker 3: a very different fiction. There's no judgment whatsoever. And as
Speaker 3: God continues to grow and evolve, we do that right
Speaker 3: alongside of God. And in fact, God sends us. The
Speaker 3: Divine sends us to these physical places, these planets, in
Speaker 3: this case in the Honor and a very difficult planet
Speaker 3: with lots of pain, sends us here to learn things.
Speaker 3: And everything we learn then gets uploaded to all and
Speaker 3: becomes part of the knowledge of all. So we are
Speaker 3: on a you know, a very special sacred mission here.
Speaker 3: Everything we learn, all the pain that we go through,
Speaker 3: all the struggle we go through, all the things that
Speaker 3: we encounter and help us evolve and grow, all of
Speaker 3: that then gets uploaded and it's part of the divine.
Speaker 3: So it's from Jordan's point of view, you know, the
Speaker 3: Divine is continue to evolve, and we are in this
Speaker 3: coming to Earth and going through these these processes of
Speaker 3: entering bodies and living a life in order to help
Speaker 3: God grow.
Speaker 2: Do you ever miss him physically, Matthew, Yes, I do
Speaker 2: very much.
Speaker 3: And I'm you know, you know, there's a there's a
Speaker 3: corner right near a restaurant. Was the last place I
Speaker 3: ever ate with him, the last place I ever saw him,
Speaker 3: last place I hugged him. I can't even go buy
Speaker 3: that that street. I can't go by it because it's
Speaker 3: just it hurts too much and I do miss him,
Speaker 3: but but I guess I'm what I'm saying. I missed
Speaker 3: the physical Jordan. I miss seeing him grow and evolve,
Speaker 3: and and he'd be thirty nine now and he died
Speaker 3: at twenty three. I miss seeing all of the things
Speaker 3: that he will will not be able to have an
Speaker 3: experience in his life. And I'm misholding him and hugging him.
Speaker 3: And so that's very deep, and sometimes that pain just
Speaker 3: wells hugely.
Speaker 2: But did they ever catch and convict the murderers?
Speaker 3: No, they didn't. They claim that they know who did it,
Speaker 3: and they and that person is actually incarcerated for a
Speaker 3: different crime, but they have never gotten enough evidence to
Speaker 3: convict him. So he isn't prison but he is hasn't.
Speaker 3: There's been no justice as far as what happened to Jordan.
Speaker 2: What's the greatest lesson you have learned from Jordan?
Speaker 3: Yeah, the greatest lesson, I think the lesson that's been
Speaker 3: most important for me personally in my life is that
Speaker 3: is what Jordan has taught me about love. And what
Speaker 3: he's taught me is that love is not an emotion,
Speaker 3: is action. It's what we do and that and he
Speaker 3: taught me to commit myself every morning, to have at
Speaker 3: every moment of choice, to bring it to every moment
Speaker 3: of choice of love and have love be the basis
Speaker 3: of everything I choose.
Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
Speaker 1: one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to coastam
Speaker 1: dot com for more