1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: Climb stories with Nancy Grace. Now will why my kids 2 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: are inside the emergency? Yeah, they be in place. I 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: was leaving and a lady who came up ball covered 4 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: in blood spain. I've just been shot. Okay where she 5 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: shot at? She was shot and hurt. Either could either 6 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 1: went here in her shuster in her back. I'm not 7 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: her hole in your suge. Okay? Is she breathing. She's breathing. 8 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 1: She's talking to conscis very hurt, bleading sud Okay, Anthony, 9 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: We've got multiple victims shoot into the test. We've got 10 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: crushed under, We've got him about her. I'm did anybody 11 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: see a sets that I will never forget that nine 12 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: one one call when apparently a woman hating misogynist who 13 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: brands women's quote horse and sluts in songs on YouTube 14 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: opens fire in a yoga studio joining me today. One 15 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: of the victims more Bankley's father, along with renowned journalist 16 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: Christine Emba. It's a phenomena called in cell listening. Everybody 17 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: really hit her. So there, wait, what's your store called? Hey? Okay, Carlas, 18 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: are you doing the like three buds man? You're like, okay, 19 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: we get hey, Okay, calm down, baby. We got him 20 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: on the way. Okay, they got him on the way. 21 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,199 Speaker 1: Are you going to say play? What's the store called? 22 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: Has yoga killers? Wait? What's your store called? You'll be okay. 23 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: We got him. What's your name? Had a shooter? So 24 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: very think he shot on the people, but every okay, 25 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: you of shooter. He was blak and he was like 26 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,559 Speaker 1: he was waiting wide way short. He was kind of happy. 27 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: He got a belly. He was wearing her hat. Family. 28 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:01,919 Speaker 1: He came in tide room when you run shooting out everyone. Okay, 29 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: people down on the floor. He shot Okay, people down. 30 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: It's like three welcome. Okay. It's not just him. It's 31 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: not this in cell misogynist. It is a phenomena that 32 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: is growing across our country. You were just hearing the 33 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: nine one one call the day of a horrific shooting 34 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: at a hot yoga studio. The shooter's name, I hate 35 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: to even mention it, Scott Barley. Seven people shot. Of course, 36 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,959 Speaker 1: women flocking to the studio in the evening hours after work, 37 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: joining me. Jeff Binkley, his daughter Maura, was shot in 38 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: the hot yoga studio. You know, Jeff, I will never 39 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: ever forget the morning I learned about Maura's death. What 40 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: do you recall of that? I know it was just 41 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: a haze in your mind. Well, I mean I would 42 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: call everything, the initial phone call from one of Mara's roommates, mom, 43 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:18,239 Speaker 1: discussions with the hospital, Dallassee police, you know, just the 44 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: the whole process of notification. That's a nightmare and it um, 45 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: but but you you remember everything and of course piecing 46 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: together what happened. It was in the evening. Um, you know, 47 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: we drove down to Tallahassee the next day. We're in 48 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: touch with people the whole time. But didn't take long 49 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: for a pretty clear picture to emerge of what happened 50 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: and why. Now it is a phenomena that is crossing 51 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: our country, and I've reported on various cases, and I've 52 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: been trying to verbalize is that what this is? What 53 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: does it mean? Why are so many men opening fire 54 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: out of anger toward women? And then I found a voice, 55 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: a voice that puts some sense to it. It's Christine 56 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 1: Emba from the Washington Post. Her article, men are in 57 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: trouble in cells are proof. I never knew the word 58 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: in cell. You know, I thought I knew it all 59 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: about criminal law. I thought it knew it all about 60 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: being a crime victim. But when I read Christine's column, 61 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: I was overwhelmed because it verbalized what I've been trying 62 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: to say. I'm just a trial lawyer, you know, Christine 63 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: Emba with me, Washington Post columnist, Christine, tell me about 64 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: your theory of in cell What is in cell? I? 65 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: In cels? In cells? Yes, so it's not surprising that 66 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: you hadn't heard of them, because this is a sort 67 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: of Internet subculture, and it's only more recently become visible 68 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: in the mainstream because of events like the shooting and 69 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: others elsewhere. But these in cells are self described. Involuntary 70 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: cellibus is what they term themselves. Okay, wait, wait, waite 71 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: White Christine, Okay, I'm a big admirer of yours. But 72 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: when you say things like involuntary cellibus, I'm just gonna 73 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: break it down. I'll say it in regular people talk. 74 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: It's guys that cannot find a sex partner. It's guys 75 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: that cannot get a date. And I know, let me 76 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: just say it in my terms. They get angry, and 77 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: time passes and they get angry or and angry or 78 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: and angrier and then they start hating the very people 79 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: they want to go out with. Now you called it 80 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: involuntary celibacy, I did, yeah, and they're totally right on 81 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: of the you know, one of the strange things about 82 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 1: this Internet subculture, many Internet sub cultures, is that it's 83 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 1: weirdly self reinforcing. UM. They have called themselves you know, 84 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: involuntarily celibate or involuntarily single um, as though the world 85 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: has completely rejected them, when in reality, a lot of 86 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,239 Speaker 1: these are just you know, kind of normal guys. Lots 87 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: of people have gone through, you know, periods where they 88 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: were single and they didn't want to be single, or 89 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: like wish they had a partner. Um. But many of 90 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: these are young men who you know, get on these 91 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: forums and talk about it, give themselves a name, you know, 92 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: self reinforced. When someone else voices their frustration was being single, 93 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: you know, all of the other people on these forums 94 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: will chime in, and they've even developed you know, a 95 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 1: home like social and political theory around why this is happening. 96 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: And there's chin Yeah, Christine, I've got I'm looking at 97 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: your article again and the way you describe it. They 98 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: believe in cell and it's short for involuntary celibacy. That's 99 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: where the name comes from. In cell she Christine Embat 100 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: the Washington Post mentioned their communities which are all online. Okay, 101 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: trust me. They're not getting together in person and going 102 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: out for dinner somewhere at olive Garden. No, they're up 103 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: at one and two o'clock in the morning on these 104 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: crazy websites whining, she says, self reinforcing. That's my interpretation 105 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: of what you just said. They think, and I'm reading 106 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: from her article. They think their looks or personality traits 107 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: have consigned them to life long loneliness, and they add 108 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: fuel to the fire by elaborate and elaborately misogynistic women, 109 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: hating theories to blame other people for their plight, choosing 110 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: only a handful of the most attractive men to be with, 111 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: that's what they accuse women of and disdaining the rest. 112 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: But you know, some maple would say that's putting perfume 113 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: on the pig. Take a listen to our free and 114 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: Carrie Sanders at NBC News, this is what it really is. 115 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: This morning, troubling new details are emerging about the man 116 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: responsible for the deadly shooting at a Tallahassee yoga studio. 117 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: Police identifying the gunman as forty year old Scott Paul Barley. 118 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: Authorities say he killed two people on Friday and shot 119 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: five others before taking his own life. It appears Barley 120 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: posted dozens of misogynistic and racist videos on YouTube. The videos, 121 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: which were not widely viewed, have been removed by YouTube 122 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: because of their offensive content. According to arrest records, Barely 123 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: had a history of harassing women in Florida. According to 124 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 1: one Tallahassee police incident report, in twenty twelve, he was 125 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: arrested for battery for grabbing girls butts near FSU's campus. 126 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: A twenty sixteen arrest report for battery states that Barley 127 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: approached a woman at a Tallahassee area pool and slapped 128 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: her butt, grabbed it, and shook it. Both charges were 129 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 1: eventually dropped. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, the shooter who 130 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: took the lives of two people in the hot yoga 131 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: Tallahassee class, started looking into the studio in May of 132 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. Chief Ngel de Alio says in addition to 133 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: looking into the studio, Scott Burley was also searching for 134 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: yoga related pornography. It wasn't until July of twenty eighteen 135 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: when he bought the gun he would use at Hot 136 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: Yoga Tallahassee. He made that purchase in Orange City. A 137 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 1: few days later, Burley went to the Tallahassee indoor shooting range. 138 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: In early August, he started looking deeper into the studio, 139 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: checking out maps and a class schedule. On August seventeenth, 140 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: he called Hot Yoga Tallahassee. Chief Delio says the studio 141 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: didn't recall anything specific about the conversation. On October fourteenth, 142 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: he booked his hotel room in Tallahassee, and on Halloween 143 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 1: he bought hearing protection and a yoga mat. Wow, the 144 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: degree of premeditation in Scott Bailey's attack on women in 145 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: a Tallahassee Hot Yoga studio overwhelming. That was our friend 146 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: at wt Excel Tallahassee, Valerie Meals reporting. I'm Nancy Grace. 147 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. 148 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: We have an all star panel and we are trying 149 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: to examine a very very upsetting trend has called insal's. First, 150 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: I want to go back to Jeffrey Binkley. His daughter 151 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: Maura was shot at the Hot Yoga studio there in Tallahassee. 152 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 1: He co founded Mara's Voice m A U r A. 153 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 1: Mara's Voice to help fund in cell research. I had 154 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 1: no idea what in cell even was. I kept reporting 155 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: on and actually prosecuting cases where men were angry, they 156 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 1: didn't have dates and would attack women, usually in the 157 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: form of a rape case, many many of them in 158 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: inner city Atlanta. And now this it's escalated to murder. 159 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: Jeff Benkley, I know I'm projecting after the murder of 160 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: my fiance, say what you must have been feeling. But 161 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: now that I have the twins Jeff, John, David and Lucy, 162 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: I can't even imagine somebody taking one of them away 163 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: from me. And it's just overwhelming when you look back 164 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: on the phone call when you learned Mara was a victim. 165 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: What are your thoughts now? As you're hearing Christine Emba 166 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: and we're about to be joined by Wendy Patrick, author 167 00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 1: of Red Flags, John Cardillo, former NYPD and veteran psychoanalyst, 168 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall, Jeff, when you hear us all just 169 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: talking about it, you know, sometimes when people ask me 170 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: about Keith's murder, even to this day, I just want 171 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: to break down and cry. I don't know how you 172 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: do it. What runs through your mind while we're talking 173 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: about this, Well, here's here's what runs through my mind. 174 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 1: Our culture has to change, you know Mar's wife, which 175 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: is I think that you know, that's the important thing, 176 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: and it was about love, care, support, encouragement for others. 177 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,199 Speaker 1: But along with that, I think that, you know, the 178 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: most important manifestation of love is our care for our 179 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: brothers and sisters. And part of that, a big part 180 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: of that is that responsibility and accountability for their safety 181 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: to go to school, to go to a church or synagogue, 182 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: to go to a gym or yoga studio and not 183 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:17,079 Speaker 1: be victim to behavior of individuals part of hateful, violent 184 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: grievents written subcultures. And that's what Mara's voice is about, 185 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: is about not only research, but education engagement around the 186 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:35,839 Speaker 1: intersection of hate and violence in our society. Mara wanted 187 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: to be a diplomat bring people together. So our responsibility 188 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:46,439 Speaker 1: is to again continue what she started. So that's our 189 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,119 Speaker 1: focus through all the pain that's there every hour, every day. 190 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: But there was a light. There's a voice that no hateful, 191 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: cowardly crying. Jeff Benkley. You know, just when I think 192 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: I am just too tired to keep trying or even 193 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: look at one more case, then you talk and I 194 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 1: completely am inspired and renewed to keep trying and just 195 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: hearing your voice. And I'm thinking of John, David and Lucy, 196 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: my twins, and what I want for them. Christine Emba 197 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: with me. Washington Post columnist article of menner and trouble 198 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: in Cells or Proof has brought to light and brought 199 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: a name, a title, an analysis of what is happening. 200 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: I mean, Lucy right now is about to turn twelve. 201 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: In six years, she'll be off to college and going 202 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: to yoga studios and work out classes and spin class 203 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: or whatever she'll be doing at that time. I want 204 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: the same thing Jeff Benkley wants Christine Emba. I want 205 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: her to be free and not live in fear. And 206 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: right now with the insale movement happening, I mean, Christaine, 207 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: you had to go to those sites. For instance, Reddit 208 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: just banned them, but those crazy web chats they engage in. 209 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: What did you learn, Christine Amber, You're right, I did 210 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: have to go to the site, and they are disturbing. 211 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: To save the least the conversations start. You know, at 212 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: their basic level, they're men, they're usually young men. They're lonely, 213 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: which is something that happens to everybody at some time 214 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: or another. But you know, they end up living online 215 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: and living in their own world where they create this 216 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: idea of women who are incredibly cruel and themselves as 217 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: you know, actually helpless before them. And then they become 218 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: angry because they think they deserve access to women. But 219 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: you know, behind it all, I think what we're seeing 220 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: is really sort of a lack, well a lack of 221 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: a lot of things that are common in our society, 222 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: you know, taking hold and manifesting in a really dangerous way. 223 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: Many of these are young men who are perhaps underemployed, 224 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: you know, not in school, not in training. That's a 225 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: phenomenon that's you know, really increased over time as women 226 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: are beginning At a minute, Christaine Emba, you know, as 227 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: my grandmother used to say, idle hands the devil's workshop. Absolutely, 228 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: and that's exactly what you're saying. When you're not at work, 229 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: you're not at school, you're not out doing something, you 230 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: have time to fester, to sit at home and think 231 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: about all your problems and really a lot of self analysis. Okay, 232 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: you know what speaking of self analysis with me, Doctor 233 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, John Cardillo, former NYPD, Wendy Patrick, trial 234 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: lawyer out of California, author of Red Flags. Okay, doctor 235 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, are you sitting down? Yes? I am. Okay, Well, 236 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: I think you better lay down for this. I've been 237 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: waiting to play this because I hate to even hear 238 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: the voice, but I want you to hear Scott Barely, 239 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: the hot yoga shooter. I feel a compulsion now to 240 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: discuss and address the origins of my misogynism and the 241 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: rebirth and when it was reborn. Nobody, nobody emerges out 242 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: of the womb one particular way, or viewing or seeing 243 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: one particular group of people one particular way. It occurs 244 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: over a source of accumulated experiences, or maybe it's one 245 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: perpetual individual. I know a girl and I was teaching. 246 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: I hated her mom and she was kind of a 247 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: I didn't she Well, that's a whole other story. Okay, 248 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 1: doctor Bethanie Marshall, I need a shrink help me out. 249 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: There's a lot more, but that's the only one I 250 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: felt like a play right now. Well, these in cells, 251 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: and this perpetrator in particular who's talking, really embody the 252 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: traits of mass murders. They've just found a very clever 253 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: rationalization for murdering women. And what we know about mass 254 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: murderers is that they're what one researcher calls injustice collectors. 255 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: They have a paranoid relationship with society. They feel disempowered. 256 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: They look at society as an all you can eat 257 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 1: buffet where everybody gets to serve up helpings for themselves, 258 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: but they don't get any of it personally. Everybody else 259 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: gets all the treasures in life and they get nothing. 260 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: And these mass murders, in particular, these cells, they plot 261 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,719 Speaker 1: and plan nancy. They are obsessed with the idea of killing, 262 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: and they often have all these manifestos. They ramble, they write, 263 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: they're all kinds of risk factors. Often they do not 264 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: have jobs. They're disenfranchised, they feel rejected, but in reality 265 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:13,199 Speaker 1: they have removed themselves from society because they're envious and 266 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: they feel that everybody else is better than them. But 267 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 1: they're resentful at a pathological level. It's not the normal 268 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: resentment of somebody who maybe somebody gets a job promotion 269 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: and they get passed over for that same promotion. It's 270 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: this belief that everybody has gotten something that they haven't gotten, 271 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: and they are going to wipe out the objects of 272 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: their envy. So it's I wouldn't even say with these 273 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: in cells that it's that they want to have sex 274 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: with women but they can't get a sex partner. I 275 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: think it's more basic than that. I think they feel 276 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 1: that these women have better lives and they are envious 277 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 1: of that, and they just want to blot out their existence. 278 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Upon arriving on sea, officers 279 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: found multiple victims suffering from gunshot wounds. Emergency responders commily 280 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 1: provided aid and transported five victims to local hospitals. One 281 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: victim has passed away at the hospital. The other four 282 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: victims at this time we're in pridical condition and we're 283 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: working closely to identify them, work with them and notify 284 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: their families. At this time, all indications are this is 285 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:37,959 Speaker 1: the act of a single person. The Chief of Police, 286 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: Michael Delio in Tallahassee, describing a mass shooting at a 287 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: hot yoga studio in Tallahassee. The victims women the purp 288 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 1: and in cell involuntary celibate with me, the dad of 289 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 1: victim Mara Binkley, Jeff Bnkley. When you hear the when 290 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: you listen now to the press conferences and the nine 291 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: one one calls, does it even seem real? What was 292 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: your ride light? You got in the car and you 293 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: drove immediately to Tallahassee. I can only imagine. I remember 294 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 1: learning I had just gotten the twins back to New York, 295 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 1: gotten them bathed, got them in their pj's, and my 296 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: mom called and said, they want to put your dad 297 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: on life support. I remember exactly where I was standing 298 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 1: in the apartment, got everybody back out on the street, 299 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 1: and it was eleven thirty nine. I was trying to 300 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 1: held a cab and somehow get on a plane to 301 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 1: get home, and trying to get home was just excruciating. 302 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: Those hours it took me to get to my dad 303 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: before he passed away were some of the worst hours 304 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: I've ever lived through. What was that drive like to Tallahassee? 305 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: Time slows down, seems like it almost stops. But the thing, 306 00:21:54,960 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: most important thing, and what I will remember above and 307 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: beyond anything else, is the people who reached out and 308 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: we talked to during that call. I mean during that ride. 309 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: They got us through, got us a Tallahassee and it's 310 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: the support of so many loving, caring people, people who 311 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: live lives that are the antithesis of the Tallahassee shooter. 312 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 1: So that degree of care and support that got us 313 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: through not only those first days, but certainly still does. 314 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: Wendy patcheckck with me, renowned California trial lawyer, author of 315 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: Red Flags. You can find it on Amazon. Wendy Patrick, 316 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: I mean red Flags. There cannot be anything I'm more 317 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:49,120 Speaker 1: interested in right now than understanding this phenomena with Christine 318 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: Emba from the Washington Post and trying to figure out 319 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,880 Speaker 1: how to stop it with you and Cardillo and doctor 320 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall. Wendy helped me because these people, as Christine 321 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 1: Hiba is correctly describing them, I don't think they have 322 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: a mental health issue such as insanity or a mental defect. 323 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: I just think they're self obsessed and turned hateful. It's right, Nancy. 324 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 1: From a threat assessment perspective, Christine really had a number 325 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,479 Speaker 1: of great observations, as did doctor Bethany Marshall, John Cardillo, 326 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: and I would also look at the same types of 327 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 1: things in this man's background. It is too bad nobody 328 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: was watching what he was posting online because had we 329 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: been paying more attention, what somebody might have done is 330 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: linked up what he said and what he did. This 331 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: wasn't somebody, Wendy, Really, are you seriously saying that we 332 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: should monitor the internet because it's all I can do 333 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 1: to work, take care of the twins, and you know, 334 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: get up to fight another day. You've got a law 335 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 1: enforcement overwhelmed. We can't catch people. Say, hey, do you 336 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: think you you know, prosecuted an innocent person. I'm like, no, 337 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,360 Speaker 1: I think that there are millions of people out there 338 00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: that are walking free that we can't catch. That's what 339 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: I think. Okay, how law enforcement have time to go 340 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: online and find the idiot in cells? Yeah? No, I'm 341 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,439 Speaker 1: not saying that they did. In fact, I'm arguing the opposite, Nancy, 342 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: because we don't have that kind of manpower and resources. 343 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: This is what ends up happening is there's nobody that 344 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 1: sees that says anything. You know. One of the things 345 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 1: that's always frustrating is when you have a message from 346 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: Facebook or some executives saying we expect people to report 347 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: what they see. People don't do that. Law enforcement doesn't 348 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: have time to do that. But what makes this man 349 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: stick out from the crowd is the fact that his 350 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: long timeline of rumination and injustice collecting. As doctor Marshall says, 351 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,640 Speaker 1: all of this, they don't snap. This was a long preplanned, 352 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: let's just say, a march towards death, which is actually 353 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 1: what ended up happening. But this is one of those 354 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: guys that slides under the radar, precisely because Nancy, we 355 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: don't have the kind of manpower to figure out who 356 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 1: is not only saying what this man said online but 357 00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: actually doing criminal acts batteries, grabbing women. Nobody was able 358 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: to put it together, had we perspective. Sadly, he fits 359 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,399 Speaker 1: a power. He was hey, guys, I'm sorry him. He 360 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: was turned into the FBI. A friend of his sister, 361 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 1: why saw his videos? This is all the police report 362 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 1: contacted the FBI. They said this was not actionable because 363 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: the threats weren't direct enough. So this behavior, the all 364 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: my behavior was brought to the detention of law enforcement. 365 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: He was fired from Lucia County Schools and Florida substitute 366 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 1: teacher for touching a twelve year old girl inside her shirt. 367 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: That's a felony. He could have been charged of the felony, 368 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 1: and with his record, he would be probably in jail today. 369 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: Mara and doctor Vanvessem would be alive. So he was 370 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,479 Speaker 1: not below the radar, under the radar by any means. 371 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: He left behind a trail and his behavior. He was 372 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 1: fired for looking at pornography in a ask room in 373 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: Tallahassee middle school classroom, so he was definitely He was 374 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: evaluated in a number of times, I think four times 375 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: by mental health professionals. One we learned did identify him 376 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: as being very dangerous. His counsel managed to keep that 377 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: out of the hands of the State's Attorney's office in Tallahassee. 378 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: While he was under Superhero jeff I See, he was 379 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 1: arrested several times too, actually brought to the attention of 380 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 1: law enforcement and taken into custody see twice. Frustrate guys, 381 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: you know what you have just totally completely messed my 382 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,719 Speaker 1: head up because I can't put my finger on it. 383 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: But Christine Washington Post columnist, I was happier when I thought, okay, 384 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: he flew under the radar. Nobody knew and this is 385 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: what happened. Now Jeff Binkley has correctly pointed out he 386 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: was not under the radar. That used to weigh on 387 00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: my mind so much. Every time I get a plea 388 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: calendar one hundred and fifty new felons every week to 389 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: plead out or take to trial. In the back of 390 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: my mind, I say, you know, what if I let 391 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: this guy off for X y Z feeling the blank, 392 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: if I give him a light plea, what if he 393 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: comes back in a month and he's killed somebody? That 394 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: weight on my mind so much so I ended up 395 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: getting a horrible reputation of being a There's no nice 396 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: way to put it ballbuster, because you know, after the 397 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: murder of my fiancee, you know I could not in 398 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 1: good conscience let somebody get a light plead. It just 399 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: it's maddening. Christine Emba, there's even more to it. In 400 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: your article, you have a sentence that says, and you've 401 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 1: gotten in italics that says he always hated women, then 402 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: he decided to kill them. So obviously no one brought 403 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: him to justice the way he should has been at 404 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,959 Speaker 1: the get go. But what do you mean by he 405 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 1: always hated women? The insul phenomenon is, you know, eight 406 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,880 Speaker 1: a huge corruption of a lot of the trends that 407 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: we are seeing in society. One of the reasons one 408 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: might suspect that when a man was reported to the 409 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: police for you know, writing racist woman hating posts on 410 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: his Facebook, is that in some ways in our society, 411 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: it's kind of okay to hate women. Misogyny is not 412 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: necessarily seen as something really out of the ordinary, and 413 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 1: you know, we see this with discussions about you know, 414 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: how feminism and ruining women or how you know, how 415 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: women are taking men's jobs. It becomes sort of normal 416 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: to resent women. And really, this man had just been 417 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: doing it all his life. You know, perhaps as a 418 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: teenager he you know, also hated women. But also the 419 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,479 Speaker 1: Internet makes this sort of thing worse because you know, 420 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: in the past, you could guess that some but he 421 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: might have these kind of crazy ideas. They might be 422 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: complaining about how they can't get a girlfriend, and that's 423 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: symbolic of something else. But eventually they would have to 424 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: go outside, they would have to talk to people just 425 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: to move around in the world. But now, you know, 426 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: instead of going out and getting a job, going and 427 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: talking to a therapist, these men just congregate. In these forums, 428 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: they talk about their problems over and over, make them worse, 429 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: encourage each other to since these you know, dark misogynistic thoughts, 430 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: tell each other they're right, and there's obviously no one 431 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: online in these forums to correct them, and so it 432 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: keeps sort of doubling down and reinforcing in these spaces. 433 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: And then most of them, you know, stay online complain 434 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: from you know, their mother's basements or wherever they are. 435 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: But some of them are you know, crazy enough, frankly 436 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: angry enough that they want to go out and put 437 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: put an action to their feelings. And when you're feelings 438 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: are hatred um at the opposite sex, at the entire 439 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: world for denying you something you think you deserve. M 440 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: then taking out hatred can take a horrible form, and 441 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: that's what we've been seeing happening from these forums. You know, 442 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: these men are leaving imselfs be leaving these forms and 443 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: taking out for hatred, their misogyny, their anger on innocent women. 444 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, we caught in food 445 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: or your food. You're hearing a nine one one call 446 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: at the shooting of Hot Yoga and tallahassee a man 447 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: walks in with the gun, opens fire. These beautiful lives 448 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: at risk, the life of Maura Bankley gone for what? 449 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: And now we learn about the phenomena of in cells I, NCLs, 450 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 1: involuntary celibates. Listen to what I learned from Christine Emba's 451 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: Washington Post column. I learned about a book called Men 452 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: Out Men on the Sidelines of American Life. Okay, millennials 453 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: are the quote nee lost boys. That's hardly how I 454 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: would describe these guys. This shooter bearly. As many as 455 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: one in three American eighteen to thirty four year old 456 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,719 Speaker 1: men are unemployed living at home because of a confluence 457 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: of factors. Okay, women surging ahead, out enrolling men in 458 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,959 Speaker 1: colleges and universities, and uncertainty about their place in the 459 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: world is leading to spiking levels of anxiety and depression. 460 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: Does that translate to murder? To John Cardillo joining me 461 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: right now, former NYPD And you know he's been in 462 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: the thick of it, John Cardillo, I mean, I know 463 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: that this book about man out men on the sidelines 464 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: of American life? All right? You know I feel sorry 465 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: for anybody that has to live in their mom's basement 466 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: in their thirties. But when it translates to murder, to 467 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: hublel with all that psychobabble, no offense, Bethany, but this 468 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: is a cold blooded murder. And you heard Jeff Binkley 469 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: correct all of us about this guy's history. He had 470 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: a history, he was not so quote under the radar. 471 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: Nothing was done. Help me, what can we do? John Well? Yeah, 472 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 1: so much to unpack here. First, let me say to 473 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: Jeff our thoughts and prayers with you. How impressed I am. 474 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: Jeff reminds me of my good friend Andy Pollock, who 475 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: lost his daughter in Parkland. You know, through the pain, 476 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: they're working hard to make sure other families don't have 477 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: to go through this. So he's Jeff, he really doing 478 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: God's work. Very very impressed, Nancy. The big problem here, 479 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: The big problem here is that we have to balance 480 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 1: And this is a conversation I've had with my good 481 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: friend Lindy Patrick more times than I can count. I 482 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: know she'll agree. When we monitor these groups online, and 483 00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: I've always been in law enforcement a big fan of 484 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: pro filing and monitoring as long as we do it constitutionally. 485 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: And so there's what they're saying online with their writing 486 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: is vile, it's hateful, it's disgusting. You want to click 487 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: off the page and turn away. But in all but 488 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: a few instances, those instances, when they specifically target a 489 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: person or a location, its First Amendment protected. So law 490 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: enforcement is monitoring. We found out just this week, just 491 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: two three days ago, that the United States Air Force 492 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: received some intelligence that warranted a briefing on in cells 493 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: at Joint Base Andrews outside of Washington, DC. So the 494 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: United States Air Force is actually now looking at this group, 495 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: at these in cells, the same as they're looking at 496 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: the bloods and the crypts infiltrating military armories, biker gangs, 497 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: white supremacist groups. So they are firmly on law enforcement's radar. 498 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: Listen to one about of finding in cells if you 499 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:58,239 Speaker 1: want to know or curious why in part guys are 500 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: so anxious and aggressive and in a hurry. Just watch 501 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:14,240 Speaker 1: any any number of television shows that have like thirteen 502 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: fourteen year olds. Let me forget about high school students, 503 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: as as their characters going on dates and doing any 504 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: any variety of things. Okay, you just heard the voice 505 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 1: of the monster. There's no other word for it. That 506 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: took the life of Jeff Binkley's daughter Mara, minding her 507 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,879 Speaker 1: own business there at a Tallahassee hot yoga studio when 508 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 1: he comes blasting in guns a blazing. Now, it wasn't 509 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: that simple. It took a lot of time and thought 510 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: and energy and planning for that attack. Christine Mba, your 511 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: article so true, but it lays me wondering what do 512 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: I do now there are a million Scott Beerley's out there. 513 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 1: That's a really hard question to answer because, as I 514 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: wrote in my article, you know, the in cells are 515 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 1: kind of a symptom of a larger problem that's affecting 516 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: men across the country, really across the world. You know, 517 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: we have a culture that you know, sometimes uses sex, 518 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: the ability to get sex or get a partner as 519 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: a marker of success. But at the same time, we're 520 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: getting worse at fostering real human connection with people, and instead, 521 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: you know, we substitute the internet. And some people I 522 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 1: think are strong enough and lucky enough to be able 523 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 1: to escape that poll, or they have parents or friends 524 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: who you know, correct them and bring them outside. But 525 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: some people are not. And we you know, it's easy, 526 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: it's easy to say, oh these guys are you know, weirdos, 527 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 1: they're gross, will just ignore them, will pretend that this 528 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: is going on, the rest of us are living our 529 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: lives generally, okay, so we can just pretend nothing is 530 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 1: happening there. But we really will have to look at, 531 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: you know, our culture and our society and think, what 532 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 1: are we doing. What are we doing that we allow this, 533 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 1: you know, this talk the hatred of women to become normal? 534 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: What are we doing that we you know, allow these 535 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: creepy forums. It's time spent talking to nobody in the 536 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 1: real world, but only on the Internet or gaming devices normal. 537 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: You know, how do we change that? And that's going 538 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: to be the really hard part because that will be 539 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,760 Speaker 1: a really deep change for our culture. To Jeffrey Binkley, 540 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 1: the dad of Maura Bankley, who was shot and killed 541 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: at the Hot Yoga studio in Tallahassee, who has now 542 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 1: founded Mara's Voice, jeff I want to close with your 543 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: thoughts and how we can take action through Mara's Voice. 544 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: Thank you, and I'd like everyone to think about this. 545 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 1: Any social problems, social pathologies, they operate on multiple levels, 546 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,759 Speaker 1: and certainly there's a cultural issue. I would also ask 547 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: everybody to note that the in cell groups have leaders, 548 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: and they manipulate and they radicalize online just like any 549 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 1: other terrorist group does. There is incitement, which in itself 550 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,320 Speaker 1: can be a crime, right Nancy. And I heard a 551 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 1: CNN reporter, I don't know who it was or i'd 552 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,360 Speaker 1: give her credit ask someone a question last week and 553 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 1: I thought she put it, well, is the internet our 554 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: quote crowded theater. We're all familiar with the legal analogy 555 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 1: fire and a crowded theater. It's not just in cells. 556 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: There are white supremacists and a Semitic other groups that 557 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:56,879 Speaker 1: are very similar in their approaches. The radicalization and incitement 558 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 1: that's not protected by the First Amendment. We have to 559 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:06,719 Speaker 1: look at very seriously the application of those principles of 560 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 1: free speech and how they apply in the age of 561 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: the Internet. You mentioned your children, everybody's children. How that 562 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 1: applies in that crowded theater which every time they log 563 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: in or turn on their president. And I would just 564 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,840 Speaker 1: ask everyone listening to consider this, And I ask everyone 565 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 1: listening to please go to Mara's voice, Emmason mother au 566 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 1: r a a postrophe s Mara's voice to find out 567 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 1: about in cell research. You can go online and find 568 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,320 Speaker 1: Christine Emba's article in the Washington Post. Men are in 569 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 1: trouble in cells or proof and that article leads you 570 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: to so much more. And right now I am remembering 571 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 1: in thinking of a beautiful, brilliant girl who lost her 572 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 1: life to an in cell. Mora Binkley Nancy Grace crime Story, 573 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:05,880 Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend,