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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show.

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Speaker 3: All right, Good morning, Welcome back to Counterpoints. Emily, how

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Speaker 3: was your mushroom does this morning? Did you calibrate it

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Speaker 3: better than last week?

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Speaker 4: He loves this joke. He's going to do this joke

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Speaker 4: every week.

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Speaker 3: It was an inside joke because I was a little

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Speaker 3: I had Mac wrote a little bit.

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Speaker 4: You know, sometimes you gotta There.

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Speaker 3: Was an audience of one for me for that joke

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Speaker 3: last week. I'm better today, although people enjoyed it either way.

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Speaker 4: Because yeah, well you know right, it's debate and that

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Speaker 4: means it's a perfect time to subscribe to Breaking Points,

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Speaker 4: by the way, because we will have special debate coverage

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Speaker 4: going on, of course, so take a look out for

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Speaker 4: that discount code. But also just make sure with Counterpoints

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Speaker 4: to subscribe to premium if you want to watch the

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Speaker 4: are a Premium subscriber, you get the show first, you

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Speaker 4: get the full uninterrupted video beginning to end. And it's

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Speaker 4: a great way to support the.

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Speaker 3: Reporting here and no ads. And yeah, as you see

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Speaker 3: at the bottom that row along the bottom there, there's

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Speaker 3: a whole bunch of segments and we post three or four,

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Speaker 3: sometimes five of them to YouTube. The rest are available

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Speaker 3: at Spotify and other podcast places or with your premium sponsorship.

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Speaker 4: It's the difference between hearing Ryan making a joke about

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Speaker 4: me micro dosing and scene.

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Speaker 3: And you really have to see it, Yeah, you do,

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Speaker 3: you do? You got to see it.

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Speaker 4: So huge news day actually, and this happens a lot,

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Speaker 4: I feel like on Tuesdays as we're prepping the show,

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Speaker 4: but yesterday was something I have never seen quite before.

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Speaker 4: The story is just kept stacking up. Ryan was actually

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Speaker 4: in the Capitol yesterday, and I know you're going to

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Speaker 4: talk to us about shutdown dynamics. Later in the show,

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Speaker 4: We're going to start with the UAW. We are then

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Speaker 4: going to go to some big news again that broke

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Speaker 4: at night, basically that Donald Trump is in some serious

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Speaker 4: hot water new legal trouble based on a judge's findings

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Speaker 4: about how he was valuing his own assets. We're going

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Speaker 4: to talk about the Big Iron story that was very

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Speaker 4: buzzy in Washington yesterday. The Biden administration may be infiltrated

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Speaker 4: by Ronnian assets. I think Ryan might disagree and have

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Speaker 4: some fun. It'll be a good debate. We're going to

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Speaker 4: talk about JP Morgan settling once again in the Jeffrey

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Speaker 4: Epstein case. We're going to talk about Google and anti trust.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to talk about a new poll on Republican

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Speaker 4: voters and how they are seeing politics right now. And

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Speaker 4: then we're talking to journalist Toby Green about how the

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Speaker 4: lockdowns affected Africa.

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Speaker 3: Let's deal with Hunter Biden.

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Speaker 4: First, Hunter Biden, this is one of those stories that

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Speaker 4: stacked up yesterday. Did you see the Fox story?

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Speaker 3: I did, right, So Fox is reporting. I think we

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Speaker 3: have an element here that two hundred fifty thousand dollars

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Speaker 3: plus another ten thousand dollars wire originated from a company

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Speaker 3: in Beijing, Beijing that has ties to kind of like

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Speaker 3: the National Chinese Bank that Hunter Biden and is little

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Speaker 3: firm we're working for. They wired Hunter money in twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 3: and the beneficiary address on the wire was Joe Biden's

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Speaker 3: home address, the Big Guy. All one hundred percent for

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Speaker 3: the Big Guy. Now, the reason I'm a little underwhelmed

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Speaker 3: by this story is that Hunter Biden was lit. We

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Speaker 3: know that he was living. Yes, he was a drug

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Speaker 3: addict living with his parents. Yes, And so if you're

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Speaker 3: gonna get a two hundred fifty thousand dollars wire, which

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Speaker 3: is it's a hilarious concept. You're a drug addict who's

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Speaker 3: living with your parents, and also you have hundreds of

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Speaker 3: thousands of dollars being wired in from foreign countries. Yes,

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Speaker 3: as you know most drug addicts who are living with

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Speaker 3: their parents too. But any event, he's living with his

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Speaker 3: dad at the time, or it is the most stable address.

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Speaker 3: You know, he's going through a divorce, he's got this

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Speaker 3: other relationship going on, he's got the affair with his

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Speaker 3: late brother's wife former wife going on, and so the

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Speaker 3: address that he can cite is the one in Wilmington

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Speaker 3: is his dad. So as another example of kind of

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Speaker 3: what a rough life Hunter Biden was living, I think

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Speaker 3: they've got inbusted. I don't think it actually ties to

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Speaker 3: Joe Biden necessarily, Am I being too soft on the

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Speaker 3: big guy here?

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Speaker 4: It's no, no, no, I don't think you're being too soft

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Speaker 4: on the big guy. But it does if you kind

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Speaker 4: of zoom out to the three thousand foot level. This

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Speaker 4: is a man who was about to announce his run

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Speaker 4: for president on the timeline and is having money from

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Speaker 4: a Chinese pe firm wired to his house, hundreds of

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Speaker 4: thousands of dollars to the man who is about to

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Speaker 4: become the leading candidate for president.

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Speaker 3: And announced a couple of months later or something.

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Speaker 4: Right, you're right, right, right, So obviously not a good look.

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Speaker 4: And I think in another era, you know, fifteen ten

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Speaker 4: years ago, this would have been pretty earth chattering for

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Speaker 4: Joe Biden and for any sitting president. Does it tie

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Speaker 4: Biden directly anymore than he already has been tied directly.

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Speaker 4: We're not in the Philip Bump camp, of course, where

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Speaker 4: we say no, none of this points back to Joe

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Speaker 4: bid Don't It could mean anything? No, I mean, I

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Speaker 4: think there's pretty clear evidence that Joe Biden because his

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Speaker 4: finances and this is I think that one of the

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Speaker 4: points of the story is it's interesting the way that

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Speaker 4: their lives were intermingled, because we have seen evidence their

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Speaker 4: finances were intermingle, right.

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Speaker 3: And this with this company in particular, I think it

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Speaker 3: was BHR BHR. We know that Biden was on Joe

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Speaker 3: Biden was on at least what one call did coffee

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Speaker 3: in Beijing with Hunter, and the CEO may have called

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Speaker 3: in on during a dinner as well, or was put

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Speaker 3: on speaker during another meeting. So you know, just to

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Speaker 3: do pleasantries, because that's how this works. Like you, if

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Speaker 3: you're Hunter Biden, you want to just prove that, like, Okay, yes,

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Speaker 3: you know I'm a mess, but like my dad still

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Speaker 3: loves me and I still talk to him, and let

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Speaker 3: me prove it by putting him on speakerphone. Here. It's

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Speaker 3: not like you're going to talk about business on the

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Speaker 3: speakerphone with the vice president form and vice president, but

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Speaker 3: it's just to show that connection. As a parent, you

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Speaker 3: could be like, look, you want to move back home.

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Speaker 3: You're troubled. You just can't extract money from foreign countries

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Speaker 3: using my last name. You could put that rule in place,

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Speaker 3: my red line. You got to change the kiddy litter

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Speaker 3: every day. Yeah, and no money from China in exchange

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Speaker 3: for selling my name. It seems like you could do that.

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Speaker 4: It seems like a good deal.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I meant to live in Wellington.

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Speaker 4: But not only did Joe Biden apparently not do that,

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Speaker 4: but he also then lined to the public about it

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Speaker 4: and said he had no interaction with the son's business

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Speaker 4: at all. We now know that that is not true.

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Speaker 4: We know that he was very very much engaged, whether

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Speaker 4: it was intentional or otherwise, in the lobbying project. I

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Speaker 4: have a hard time giving him the benefit of the doubt.

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Speaker 4: When he's showing up to Cafe Milano, he's on the phone,

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Speaker 4: all of those different things. So is this hard evidence

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Speaker 4: that Joe Biden profited. Well, we do have some evidence

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Speaker 4: that Hunter Biden was paying bills on these properties. So

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Speaker 4: if you put it all together, it's just another puzzle

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Speaker 4: piece that is becoming an increasingly clear picture of Joe

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Speaker 4: Biden's at the very least complicity in influence peddling with

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Speaker 4: a country that is I think fairly labeled in an adversary,

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Speaker 4: especially on particular levels. And he lied to the public

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Speaker 4: about it too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there was that, and we then move on from this.

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Speaker 3: But there was that great viral speech that was given

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Speaker 3: as sort of like a Chinese Ted Talk thing if

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Speaker 3: you remember this, where the guys like, when Biden comes in,

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Speaker 3: we're gonna be good, yeah, because we're good with Hunter. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So they like there were certainly people in the Chinese

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Speaker 3: elite who felt like they were getting something.

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Speaker 4: The last Obama state dinner was a China state dinner,

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Speaker 4: if I'm not mistaken. I mean, when they were leaving office,

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Speaker 4: there was a different there was a warmer feeling towards China.

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Speaker 4: And you know, people can make ideological arguments for why

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Speaker 4: that was and how best to handle this kind of

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Speaker 4: what feels like a new Cold War. But obviously we're

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Speaker 4: seriously at loggerheads with them on things like state secrets,

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Speaker 4: on things like technology and all of these big questions Taiwan.

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Speaker 4: So it's an incredibly bizarre and obviously unethical arrangement.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's the funny thing. All of this chatter

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Speaker 3: kind of lives at the realm of just social media

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Speaker 3: chit chat. If you go back to Russia, Russia Gate

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Speaker 3: and Trump, if you believed that Trump was kind of

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Speaker 3: like a Russian asset living in the White House, you'd

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Speaker 3: be shocked that he was so hawkish towards Russia, right,

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Speaker 3: And if you believe that Hunter Biden and Joe Biden

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Speaker 3: are just Chinese assets sitting in the White House, you'd

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Speaker 3: be shocked at how hostile and hawkish they are towards China.

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Speaker 3: So this entire conversation plays out on a level that's

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Speaker 3: just different from the structural, kind of geopolitical level that's

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Speaker 3: actually at play.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's a good point, because Biden's China

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Speaker 4: policy is totally what's the best word for it's kind

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Speaker 4: of by polar and that it's like polled, it's just

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Speaker 4: two poles that are it's a tug of war between

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Speaker 4: people who are more dubbish and people who are more hawkish,

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Speaker 4: because you can see both winning out at various points

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Speaker 4: in time. And that's genuinely interesting. And it's not as

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Speaker 4: clear cut a story as Joe Biden is bought and

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Speaker 4: paid for by China. The story is obviously that Joe

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Speaker 4: Biden was aware of an incredibly unethical arrangement. His son

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Speaker 4: was profiting to the tune of millions in the way

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Speaker 4: no average American could by trading on his name and influence.

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Speaker 3: Meanwhile, you've had Republicans accusing Biden of being bought and

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Speaker 3: paid for by the UAW. Are they run Let's hope not.

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Speaker 3: Let's hope not. So let's let's play some extraordinarily exciting

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Speaker 3: scenes from a UAW picket line. The first president in

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Speaker 3: American history to walk a striking picket line. Let's let's

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Speaker 3: roll this. You can't, you know, you gotta you gotta

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Speaker 3: squint a little bit to hear this. But let's here's

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Speaker 3: here's Biden kind of missing the bullhorn a little bit

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Speaker 3: at the picket line.

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Speaker 5: Ruddy, you ain't w a bigger lines, but not as

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Speaker 5: the Senator since nineteen seventy three. But I'll tell you

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Speaker 5: what first I've ever done as the president? Oh sure,

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Speaker 5: working a real side in the three. Back of the

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Speaker 5: matter is that you, guys.

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Speaker 6: U A W.

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Speaker 5: You seved the autobile industry back into out of the

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Speaker 5: eight and four, made a lot of sacrifices, gave up

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Speaker 5: a lot, and the companies were in trouble. But now

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Speaker 5: they're doing incredibly well. And guess what you should be

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Speaker 5: doing incredibly well too. Takes with it because you deserve

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Speaker 5: the significant raise, your need and others, let's get it,

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Speaker 5: never stepped.

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Speaker 3: Up for us what I was struck by beyond just

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Speaker 3: the imagery of the president out there on the picket

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Speaker 3: line with the workers. Is that at the end there

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Speaker 3: he says, let's get back what we lost, using the

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Speaker 3: word we talking about the workers, and he's talking about

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Speaker 3: how in two thousand and eight, during the financial crisis,

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Speaker 3: the UAW gave up extraordinary concessions in order to just

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Speaker 3: not go completely bankrupt, like bankruptcy and let not the

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Speaker 3: kind of fake bankruptcy, but like real bankruptcy was like

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Speaker 3: on the table, like that was a real possibility, and

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Speaker 3: they made all of these sacrifices. And so he's saying,

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Speaker 3: let's we need to win that back. And to have

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Speaker 3: a president say we in relation to the rest of

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Speaker 3: these workers rather than you, was a unique sign of

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Speaker 3: solidarity from a president to actual striking workers. What did

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Speaker 3: you think of of that theater or a real shift

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Speaker 3: in the role to presidency?

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Speaker 4: I mean it, it was good theater, a rare moment

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Speaker 4: of good theater from the Biden presidency.

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Speaker 3: I did short, which was good for him.

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Speaker 4: Kept it short. He so here's more from him. He said, quote,

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Speaker 4: stick with it. You deserve the significant rays you need

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Speaker 4: and other benefits, and he got some reading that. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: he got some additional headlines because a reporter shoutowed a

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Speaker 4: question to him where he asked specifically with the reporter

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Speaker 4: asked specifically about a forty percent pay raise, and Biden

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Speaker 4: just responded to the question of whether workers deserved it.

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Speaker 4: He said, quote, yes, this is yes. You can see

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Speaker 4: that up on the screen as well. So whether or not,

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think Biden is entirely sincere in this,

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Speaker 4: I think, and that's very typical of Democrats, especially from

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Speaker 4: his era, when union support meant something. I mean, that's

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Speaker 4: that is the core of the Democratic Party when he's

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Speaker 4: coming and especially where he's from, when he's coming into

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Speaker 4: office and is coming into power politically. So I think

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Speaker 4: he's entirely sincere in his sentiments towards unions, and I

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Speaker 4: think you definitely saw that very very clearly yesterday. It

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Speaker 4: is interesting, on the other hand, that speaking of we

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Speaker 4: were just kind of talking about this in the China segment,

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Speaker 4: the sort of different polls pulling him in different directions,

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Speaker 4: and this happens in every presidency, but it's been interesting

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Speaker 4: the sort of green agenda that Biden's implemented, the electric

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Speaker 4: vehicle mandate that came from an executive order. Those things

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Speaker 4: are intention and those are explicitly intention according to the union,

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Speaker 4: and Biden didn't address that yesterday. No big surprise there,

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Speaker 4: but it is interesting to see a Democrat like Joe Biden,

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Speaker 4: from his era and his kind of democratic politics then

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Speaker 4: be the administration to implement some of these green priorities

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Speaker 4: that the unions are obviously not stoked about.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And later he's stuck around to watch Sean Fain,

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Speaker 3: the UAW president, speak to that same gathering at workers.

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Speaker 3: He's got another I don't think we have the clip here,

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Speaker 3: but he's got a worker, got his arm around her,

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Speaker 3: and she's talking about how we're going to beat corporate greed.

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Speaker 3: The thing that beats corporate greed is a united working class.

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Speaker 3: And Biden's like pumping his fist like this is the

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Speaker 3: Democratic Party? What wow? Okay? And I think politicians would

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Speaker 3: rather do that like it, just as human beings. Like

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Speaker 3: if you can be a politician and you can either

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Speaker 3: kind of be corrupted by big money, or you can

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Speaker 3: be corrupted by thousands of workers cheering for you, you'd

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Speaker 3: rather have thousands of just as a human, you'd rather

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Speaker 3: have thousands of workers cheering for you. Now, it's nice

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Speaker 3: to be rich and you know, be bought off like

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Speaker 3: it'd be an oligarch, like all of those things are great.

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Speaker 3: But I do think that there is a they wind

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Speaker 3: at the back of that kind of movement if you

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Speaker 3: can get it going, like you have to be able.

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Speaker 3: And you're seeing at the same time, yesterday it was

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Speaker 3: reported you see this that the private equity industry is

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Speaker 3: moving all its money to the Republican the cycle because

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Speaker 3: they're so frustrated by Gensler and other Biden regulators and

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Speaker 3: they think that Democrats are like getting taken over by

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Speaker 3: the berniecrats and it's just not fair. Private equity can't

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Speaker 3: get a hearing outside of Josh Gottheimer anymore. And it's

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Speaker 3: like good, polarize that, like good, fine, yeah, let's have

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Speaker 3: that fight.

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Speaker 4: Well, and it's a time when Republicans are at odds

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Speaker 4: with the Chamber of Commerce, and that's a.

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Speaker 3: Very real where will private equity go?

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Speaker 4: Well, it's actually fair, I mean because private equity again,

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Speaker 4: I mean we've seen different things like ESG is a

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Speaker 4: huge issue of contention between Republicans and some of these

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Speaker 4: really big business interests. And I don't know, I mean,

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Speaker 4: there's a real question of if they those big business

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Speaker 4: interests that thought they had actually found a new home

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Speaker 4: in the Democratic Party. It wasn't just that they thought, oh,

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Speaker 4: we're souring on Republicans, it was actually they felt really

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Speaker 4: comfortable with Democrats. If they now feel uncomfortable with Democrats,

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Speaker 4: and that's a wedge that drives them back to Republicans.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot lot of incentives on the table for

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Speaker 4: Republicans to be friendly with those interests again, and we'll

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Speaker 4: talk about this later in the show in my block,

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Speaker 4: because that's Republicans like actually really can't afford to do

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Speaker 4: that with their voters because sentiments have soured on Wall

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Speaker 4: Street to another degree with Republican voters, but union sentiments

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Speaker 4: even among Republican voters, and in the poll I'm going

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Speaker 4: to talk about later today, it's something like forty percent

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Speaker 4: of Republicans are favorable towards unions. Let alone the broader public.

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Speaker 4: This is not a time to be going after unions.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and this exact fight that you're talking about is

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Speaker 3: playing out within the Republican Party. In tonight's trip by

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Speaker 3: Trump out to what a lot of the media is

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Speaker 3: describing as a talk to the UAW or to like

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Speaker 3: unionized workers, or saying he's visiting the Pike line. None

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Speaker 3: of that is true, and it's interesting. Let's talk about

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Speaker 3: what Trump actually is doing during the debate. He's going

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Speaker 3: to be visiting a non union plant, and let's we

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Speaker 3: have this Fox News clip. Let's roll this so we

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Speaker 3: can let's hear from directly from the non union owner.

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Speaker 4: Let's bring in.

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Speaker 1: Nathan Stemple, a president of automotive manufacturing company Drake Enterprises,

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Speaker 1: where former President Trump will be speaking tomorrow. Nathan, good

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Speaker 1: morning too. It's going to be a big week for

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Speaker 1: you and your business because the former president is coming

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Speaker 1: to speak at Drake Enterprises. Not every day you get

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Speaker 1: a former president current front runner to visit. So give

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Speaker 1: us the backstory here, tell us how this visit came

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Speaker 1: about and why you do want to host the former president.

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Speaker 7: Well, first off, thanks for having me on. It was

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Speaker 7: complete luck. Some of our colleagues that we do business

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Speaker 7: with reached out to us said that the president was

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Speaker 7: looking for a location to host this event, and you

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Speaker 7: know we are more than willing.

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Speaker 8: To do so.

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Speaker 3: Now. Some of is if I'm going to defend Trump,

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Speaker 3: would be the unions are Democratic allies. No, yeah, and

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Speaker 3: so aren't going to give Trump any kind of photo op.

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Speaker 3: On the other hand, the picket lines are all over

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Speaker 3: you know, they're they're throughout Michigan, Indiana. You could, like,

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Speaker 3: you can find picket lines everywhere. And so if he

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Speaker 3: actually wanted to literally visit a picket line, he could

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Speaker 3: do that. He could get the same photo op that

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Speaker 3: Biden just got. Instead, when his campaign decided to plan it,

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Speaker 3: they reached out to you know, some looks like Republican

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Speaker 3: donors out in the Midwest, and they were like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I call this guy called Nathan. You know, he's his

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Speaker 3: workers aren't striking, so they don't have a union, and

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Speaker 3: they're like, oh, you can host us. You're like yeah,

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Speaker 3: well yeah. It's like, well, no, this is a big

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Speaker 3: this is a strike against the Big three. What are

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Speaker 3: you doing going to a not striking, non union plans?

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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, So that's where the media is I think

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Speaker 4: bluring the lines here is so he is speaking to

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Speaker 4: auto workers. Yeah, and when you say Donald Trump is

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Speaker 4: going to Michigan to speak to auto workers a mid

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Speaker 4: UAW strike gives the impression that he is speaking to

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Speaker 4: striking auto workers. That is not the case, and there

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Speaker 4: were some rumblings that this had been organized by the

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Speaker 4: National Right to Work Foundation, which is exactly what it

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Speaker 4: sounds like as a group.

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Speaker 3: We don't have any evidence of that, as Philip Pump

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Speaker 3: would say.

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Speaker 4: Right right, Philip Pump would say, by the Bump standards,

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Speaker 4: it's unconfirmed. I did reach out to them and didn't

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Speaker 4: hear back to try to confirm whether or not that's true.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, like I said, I didn't hear back. Now,

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Speaker 4: the right to work issue is a huge blind spot

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Speaker 4: for and I don't know if we've actually ever even

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Speaker 4: hashed this out, because you've covered these issues for years.

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Speaker 4: I do genuinely think it is a blind a blind

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Speaker 4: spot for pro union democrats and pro union leftists because

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Speaker 4: a lot of the problem with right to work is

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Speaker 4: actually I think it's blamed on companies, like misinformation for

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Speaker 4: companies blah blah blah, which I think is sort of

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Speaker 4: insulting to union workers. But also if unions, if workers

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Speaker 4: don't want to join a union, that's also a problem

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Speaker 4: with the union. And it is because unions like the

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Speaker 4: UAW have had serious corruption problems. There are now cultural

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Speaker 4: wedges between the workers and the unions. And the candidates

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Speaker 4: that they support with money that partially comes from workers,

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Speaker 4: Like that is a real problem for a lot of

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Speaker 4: people who work at in places like Detroit, in places

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Speaker 4: like Indiana, and so the right to work issue I

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Speaker 4: think is not as clear cut as it's made out

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Speaker 4: to be by a lot of people who cover these

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Speaker 4: issues really intensely. Not you, but I think sometimes that

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Speaker 4: just gets glossed over, and it is kind of an

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Speaker 4: opening for Trump to come in here and say, you

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Speaker 4: like a lot of you workers, not all of you workers,

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Speaker 4: but a lot of you aren't getting what you want

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Speaker 4: from the unions, and so I don't think it's like

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Speaker 4: a clear slam dunk. I guess that's what I'm trying

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Speaker 4: to say, Like, it's not like the big dunk on

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Speaker 4: Republicans that I've seen some on the left treated as

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Speaker 4: that that Trump is going to like a right to

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Speaker 4: work non union in place like Actually, union workers in

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Speaker 4: places like Michigan do have a lot of problems with

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Speaker 4: the unions.

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Speaker 3: I think the timing is a little off for him

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Speaker 3: in the sense that finally, yes, the UAW wildly corrupt

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Speaker 3: for decades until like recently, thank you department weaponized department

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Speaker 3: of Justice came in and weaponized the UAW leadership right

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Speaker 3: out of there after this like then they deserved it,

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Speaker 3: like wildly corrupt. And then for the first time ever,

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Speaker 3: they had direct elections and they chose Sean Fain. Here's

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Speaker 3: the thing that nobody wants to talk about. You know

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Speaker 3: why Shawn Fain won. People are going to not be

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Speaker 3: happy about this. Graduate students make up at about twenty five

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Speaker 3: percent of the UAW right now. They were the biggest

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Speaker 3: organizers and champions of Shawn Fain, and so it's this

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Speaker 3: interesting Bernie like gentrifier millennial situation. But they very much

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Speaker 3: organized with militant auto workers and other rank and file.

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Speaker 3: But without the graduate students in that union, John Finn

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Speaker 3: doesn't win.

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Speaker 4: Interesting, yeah, without the we.

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Speaker 3: Don't We liked our kind of class history to be

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Speaker 3: cleaner than that. So you can just pretend you didn't

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Speaker 3: hear that. If anybody doesn't like that, But if you

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Speaker 3: do like that, congratulations to the graduate students and also

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Speaker 3: congratulations to the autoworkers who are like who did work

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Speaker 3: with them and be like, you know what, these kids

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Speaker 3: can really help us. There were a lot of fights

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Speaker 3: on the floor where the graduate students were able to

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Speaker 3: help some of these long time auto workers kind of

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Speaker 3: work through the very complicated legal ease of the bylaws

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Speaker 3: and help them maneuver within the within the within the convention.

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Speaker 3: So it's really really cool alliance if if people are

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Speaker 3: okay with like acknowledging that grad students are not just

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Speaker 3: the worst people on the planet, because without them, like

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Speaker 3: you're not, you're not getting this fight right now. So

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00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 3: one point on what I'd say on right to work, Yes,

436
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 3: I think it's true that unions need to keep organizing

437
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 3: internally and need to you know, positively win the support

438
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 3: of their membership.

439
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 4: They need to genuinely be appealing.

440
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 3: At the same time, the way that right to work

441
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 3: can sometimes be designed is like imagine you, like, let's

442
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 3: say a book, like you're going out to eat and

443
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 3: you've got a huge group. You've got fifty people, and

444
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 3: so you call the restaurant ahead and you're like, look,

445
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 3: if we give you a thousand dollars, can we book

446
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 3: a block off half the restaurant and then everybody can

447
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 3: eat for ten dollars total, and then everybody and then

448
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 3: people come in and you people figure out, oh, actually

449
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 3: I don't have to pay the ten dollars, I don't

450
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,120
Speaker 3: have to chip in, and I still get the cheaper food.

451
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 3: And then eventually nobody's paying the little cover to get

452
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 3: into the side over here, and then the person who

453
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 3: organized the dinner can't then pay the restaurant, and so

454
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 3: the whole thing just dissolves and you don't and nobody

455
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,120
Speaker 3: any longer has like this half of the restaurant anymore.

456
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 3: The whole thing's over. There's so you got to so

457
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 3: ever individual wants to free ride, Yeah, that's for the

458
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,199
Speaker 3: why not. It takes the incentive away if you can

459
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 3: free ride, free ride. But then eventually the union is

460
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 3: so weak that it just collapses. And that's the goal

461
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 3: of these like right to work champions.

462
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 4: Absolutely, absolutely, Although I do again think that it's a

463
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 4: it's also an opening and even just politically, it's an

464
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 4: opening for Trump to pray on. And I say that

465
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 4: not like I doesn't mean that pejoratively. I mean that

466
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,880
Speaker 4: politically to pray on some real weaknesses that the union has.

467
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 4: And the union should obviously strengthen the weakness, it should

468
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 4: like actually have to deal with some of those things.

469
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 4: And when you don't have right to work, there's less

470
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 4: incentive for the union to work on those things because

471
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 4: they don't have to appeal as much to workers because

472
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 4: workers are forced to support them. So anyway, all that

473
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 4: is to say, it shouldn't be a cope for for

474
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 4: unions to just say, well, this is you know, business

475
00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 4: brainwashing and freeloaders. I mean, they're like very legitimate problems

476
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 4: that have broken the trust of some of the workers.

477
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 4: And that is at the very least an opening. And

478
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 4: Republicans have not been smart enough to really capitalize on

479
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 4: that because they didn't frankly give a damn, Like they

480
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 4: weren't paying attention and they didn't want to touch the

481
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 4: labor issue period. And Donald Trump is the only Republican

482
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 4: candidate right now that's going in on this, and that's

483
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 4: like shocking. I mean, it's not shocking at all, but

484
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 4: it's shocking from a purely political strategic standpoint that no

485
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 4: consultants in the beltwayh have like picked up on this

486
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 4: and been like, ooh, maybe we should talk to these

487
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 4: workers because they comprise a group of our base. They

488
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 4: delivered the election to Donald Trump in twenty sixteen. In

489
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 4: some part, it's just absurd that the Beltwegh is still

490
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 4: that dumb and bought and paid for by big business,

491
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 4: that no candidate wants to touch this.

492
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 3: And I'll be very curious to see how he frames this.

493
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 3: I think A five is Trump's, you know, so I

494
00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 3: think this suggests he's Trump says he always had autowork back.

495
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 3: Union leaders say his first term record shows otherwise, So

496
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 3: I think he'll probably get up and say that I've

497
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 3: always had your back. It'll be interesting to see whether

498
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 3: he like bashes, if he like stands with workers with bashes,

499
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 3: union leaders and Democrats, or which would be a misread

500
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 3: of the moment, because I think that UAW members right

501
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 3: now are very happy with Sean Fain, very happy with

502
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 3: UAW leadership. They love the way that they're rolling out

503
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 3: the strikes slowly so that most of the UAW members

504
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 3: are actually getting paid right now. Like they're causing significant

505
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 3: pain for the companies, they're bringing these companies to the table,

506
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 3: extracting concessions negotiations from when I'm told are going extremely well,

507
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 3: and they're getting paid for most of them because only

508
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 3: like thirteen thousand are out on strike right now. So

509
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 3: I think if Trump goes after the leadership, I don't

510
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 3: think it's gonna actually land because they're like, no, what

511
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 3: are you talking about? Like these guys. We elected these

512
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 3: guys just recently and they're doing exactly what we asked

513
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 3: them to do and they're executing it well.

514
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I mean I guess again, like I expect

515
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 4: that he probably will go after leadership because that's one

516
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 4: of like in recent years and still memory right, yeah,

517
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 4: and your point right now about like leadership. Recently, a

518
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 4: lot of Republicans just are not well acquainted with labor issues,

519
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 4: Like they don't know what's true on the ground, they

520
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 4: don't have the contacts. They really just like don't have

521
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 4: their ear to the ground. They definitely don't have their

522
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 4: finger on the pulse. I know this will come as

523
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 4: a surprise to everyone of.

524
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 3: Who is Republicans from Indiana that I was talking to

525
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 3: Jim Banks, Yeah, Jim Banks. I asked him, like, you know,

526
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 3: how our people responding, As the Republican chair of the

527
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 3: Anti Wolke Caucus, how are Republicans responding to the coming strike.

528
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 3: He's like, nobody in Washington that I know of is

529
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 3: remotely even paying attention to it.

530
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 4: Well, and so this gets us to our next element.

531
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 4: Let's put a SX up on the screen. This is

532
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 4: Josh Holly, Republican senator elected in twenty eighteen and definitely

533
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 4: someone considered to be on the quote unquote new right.

534
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 4: Visiting the picket line in Wentzville, he said, these workers

535
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 4: deserve better pay, better benefits, and a guarantee their jobs

536
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 4: will stay in America. Marco Rubio supported the Amazon unionization

537
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 4: drive down in Bessemer. We have seen some Republicans flirting

538
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 4: with supporting striking workers, flirting with supporting unions. If we

539
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,959
Speaker 4: put a seven up on the screen, this gets interesting too.

540
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 4: This is Pat White. He says, shame on Josh Holly

541
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 4: for acting like a friend to labor just for cheap publicity.

542
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 4: His record shows a lack of support for the labor

543
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 4: community up until now. These are some headlines he put

544
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 4: up on the screen. Holly has been a vocal supporter

545
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 4: of implementing quote right to work in Missouri. Missouri election

546
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 4: proposition a right to work vote. So, Ryan, we were

547
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 4: just basically going over all of this.

548
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 3: And this one's good, and we're Overtime pay raise blocked

549
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 3: in Missouri and nationwide as a result of lawsuit brought

550
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 3: by Missouri Attorney General Josh Holly. That's when Obama tried

551
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 3: to raise overtime pay for people who were misclassified as

552
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 3: managers and HAULI suit and I think misclassified as non manager.

553
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 4: But whatever it was, And I think Josh Holly would say.

554
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 3: Misclass fied as managers. I had it right the first time.

555
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 4: Sorry, we should we should actually try to get Josh

556
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 4: Holly on to talk about this, because I think he

557
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 4: would say, and you can choose to believe it or not.

558
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 4: I think he would say, I understand why people are skeptical.

559
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 4: I think he would say, like, listen, I get it,

560
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 4: Like the Republican Party has a very different record on

561
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 4: these issues, you know, I still I'm sure he would say,

562
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 4: I still support right to work, but I understand people's

563
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 4: people's skepticism, Like this has been a real problem for

564
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 4: the Republican Party, but the fact of the matter is

565
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 4: that it's changing. The Republican base is changing. He wants

566
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 4: to convert and well that's what I'm saying, Like it's

567
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 4: one of these like weird things in politics where you know,

568
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 4: I again, like I understand if if people are questioning

569
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 4: the sincerity, but the practical effect of it is actually powerful.

570
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 3: It's good for the workers. The workers had Corey Bush

571
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 3: and aoc in Missouri at a picket line, and they

572
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 3: have Josh Holly at a picket line. You can call

573
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 3: them all cynical. That's great for the workers.

574
00:29:57,840 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 4: That's great for the workers at the end of the day,

575
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 4: for the workers. All right, Should we move on Ryan

576
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 4: to Trump News yesterday?

577
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 3: Yes? So Donald Trump getting hammered by a judge for fraud.

578
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 3: The judge says he doesn't even need to, you know,

579
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 3: hear evidence anymore, because just he said, just looking at

580
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 3: the plain paperwork, he can say that a lot of

581
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 3: fraud was going on. You've had the Trump kids. I

582
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 3: think we put up b one here. The Trump kids

583
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 3: kind of freaking out about one particular part of the

584
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 3: ruling where the judge apparently said that he, you know,

585
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 3: he guesses that mar A Lago should be worth about

586
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 3: eighteen million dollars and Trump said it was worth a

587
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 3: billion plus now, I think and the problem for the

588
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 3: valuation of mar A Lago is that it has to

589
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 3: be a club, you know, it has to sell as

590
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 3: a club. It can't be you know, subdivided up into

591
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 3: a million different McMansions. My favorite part of all This

592
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 3: is that the Trump basically suggested, according to the judge,

593
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 3: that any valuation that he put on a property and

594
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 3: including mar A Lago is legitimate because he could find

595
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 3: a buyer from Saudi Arabia who would pay that price,

596
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 3: which I think is true, but more damning, like he

597
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 3: should be in the cell with Menendez if like if

598
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 3: Menenda is getting a bunch of gold bars from Egypt

599
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 3: for whatever he's assuming in a cell, then Trump just

600
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 3: having a blank check from the Saudis for whatever he

601
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 3: wants to give them. I think we just forget how

602
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 3: how corrupt that is and and how how much it

603
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 3: undermines our national security and our national interests to have

604
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 3: somebody who and whose whose son in law, for instance,

605
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 3: takes two billion dollars within days of leaving the White House.

606
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 3: If you every day know that you have a a

607
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 3: blank check that you can just write from the Bank

608
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 3: of Saudi, that's gonna be in your head when you're

609
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 3: making foreign policy.

610
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely, And it's one of the I think legitimate

611
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 4: arguments that was made about Donald Trump and his business

612
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 4: interests over the course of his presidency. There were all

613
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 4: kinds of funny ones that were made, but that was

614
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 4: always a legitimate one. And this is so basically the

615
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 4: news yesterday is there's this civil suit that it was

616
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 4: Letitia James actually brought against Donald Trump, and the judge

617
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 4: ruled in that lawsuit that Trump and the Trump organization

618
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 4: deceived banks and insurers and other types of people. I'm

619
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 4: reading from the Associated Press here by quote overvaluing his

620
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 4: assets and exaggerating his net worth on paperwork used and

621
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 4: making deals and securing loans. So one example of that

622
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 4: is mar A Lago, as you mentioned, inflating, according to

623
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 4: the judge, its value on one financial statement by two

624
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 4: three hundred percent. He also, the judge quote rebuked Trump

625
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 4: for lying about the size of his Manhattan apartment. Trump

626
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 4: claimed his three Worry Trump Tower penthouse was nearly three

627
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 4: times its actual size, valuing it at three hundred and

628
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 4: twenty seven million dollars.

629
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 3: And the judge also pointed out that they would list

630
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 3: rent controlled apartments as worth just as much as unrent

631
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 3: controlled apartments. Unrestricted land they would list is just as

632
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 3: much as restricted land. Here's why you and you know

633
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 3: me well, so you know I have just no soft

634
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 3: spot for this crime, this particular crime, because it's what

635
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 3: Joe Judice and Teresa Judaice went to actual prison for

636
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 3: these are the real housewives of New Jersey, Real Housewives

637
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 3: of New Jersey Star They like pencil whipped a little

638
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 3: bit of a mortgage just to like just so that

639
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 3: they could float like from one like rehab got rehab

640
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 3: to another, and the FBI and the rest of the

641
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 3: irs and everybody else came at them and sent both

642
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 3: of them to prison and deported Joe. Yeah, not for

643
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 3: like a point zero zero one of what the Trump

644
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 3: family did here. So no, no sympathy for me.

645
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 4: Theresa is on Celebrity Prentice and I think has sort

646
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 4: of hinted that she's supportive of Donald Trump's of.

647
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 3: Course she is, Like the demography is destiny right there,

648
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 3: like that Trump supporters, no doubt about it. But some

649
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 3: serious penalties coming for Trump, I was just.

650
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 4: Gonna say, right, So, like the consequences of this is

651
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 4: that they actually the judge ordered and this is Arthur

652
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 4: anger On. He ordered that some of Trump's business licenses

653
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 4: are now rescinded, which makes it very hard, at least

654
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 4: according to the Associated Press, for them to do business

655
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 4: in New York, which is where they have always done.

656
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 3: Business, like they're trying to take the Trump Tower from him,

657
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 3: from us the people.

658
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 4: But in all seriousness, I mean, this is again for

659
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 4: all of the lawfair involved in these attacks on Trump

660
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 4: and all of what I think are legitimate conversations about

661
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,479
Speaker 4: the weaponization of the Justice Apartment, et cetera, et cetera.

662
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 4: Trump always had serious vulnerabilities, always had serious vulnerabilities. And

663
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 4: that's why even when he initially ran for president, I

664
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 4: don't know to this day that he really wanted to

665
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 4: because he didn't think that he would make it more

666
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 4: than like maybe six months. Because anybody with this level

667
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 4: of sort of business or this type of business history

668
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 4: really wouldn't want the attention of basically what a truck

669
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 4: Schumer say about the Intel agencies, like, that's what's going

670
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 4: to happen, whether it's Intel or whether it's your business.

671
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 4: You're going to become a massive target for all of

672
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 4: these things, and you genuinely wouldn't want to expose yourself

673
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 4: to that level.

674
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 3: There probably aren't any real estate developers in New York

675
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 3: who would want that type of scrutiny. Donald Trump is

676
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 3: definitely not one of them, right, He's not among them. Also,

677
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 3: he has no lawyers like because for years he has

678
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 3: refused to pay his attorneys, and I have never seen this.

679
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 3: In this order, the judge find Trump's attorneys for their

680
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 3: bad arguments, like the arguments that they made that, according

681
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 3: to the judge, were so bad and so specious that

682
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 3: he fined them seven five hundred dollars because he's and

683
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,919
Speaker 3: he says, in order, I told you to stop making

684
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 3: stupid arguments, you came back with stupid arguments. You're fined

685
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 3: like I can. It's one thing to lose emotion, it's

686
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 3: another thing to lose emotions so badly that the judge

687
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 3: charges you. It's like, that's pretty It's like that line

688
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 3: where we are all stupider for having read this motion

689
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 3: and as as a result, you owe us seven five

690
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 3: hundred dollars.

691
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 4: And that's where I think we should go back to,

692
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 4: like again this idea that Donald Trump, so he camt

693
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 4: paigned again saying I know the system and I alone

694
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 4: can fix it. Basically, he was saying that I have

695
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 4: brazenly participated in the upper echelons of America's business and

696
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 4: political elite for decades. I have gamed this smart. I'm

697
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 4: famous for it. Yeah, it doesn't make me, like, it

698
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 4: doesn't make me criminal, it makes me smart something to

699
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 4: that extent. It's been out in the open with Donald

700
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 4: Trump for a long time. He hasn't sort of hid

701
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 4: that he's at best gamed the system. And so I

702
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,280
Speaker 4: don't think this affects him with voters. I think again,

703
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 4: like people actually know this stuff about Donald Trump, Like

704
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 4: it's totally baked into the Trump cake, as we talked

705
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 4: about a lot. So the question of whether or not

706
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 4: this is like a big blow to Trump politically, I

707
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 4: think it's it's not a big blow to Trump politically

708
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 4: at all. But at the same.

709
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 3: Time, book wise, ouch, this is like this is a.

710
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 4: Very real hard consequence for him on that level for sure.

711
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 3: Right because he didn't have the types of lawyers and

712
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 3: accountants who would say, you know what, that's not the

713
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 3: square foot it's on the square food size of this apartment.

714
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 3: And you can't say this is worth three hundred and

715
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 3: fifty million dollars. Anybody looks, they'll know it's not, and

716
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 3: that's illegal. You're gonna get in trouble. And if anybody

717
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 3: would say that to him, he would not pay them,

718
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 3: be fire them.

719
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 4: And why does this not bother Trump voters. And this

720
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 4: is maybe the most important question. It's because on the

721
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 4: one hand, Donald Trump was in some sense willing to

722
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 4: say things like, it doesn't make me criminal, it makes

723
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 4: me smart. And that's I don't know what I'm paraphrasing him,

724
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 4: but he did say it makes me smart in relationship

725
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 4: to I think it was taxes.

726
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

727
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 4: So like, on the one hand, again, people know this,

728
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 4: they expect it, but they also see that see him

729
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 4: as somebody who has kind of turned his fire on

730
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 4: the others, the Clintons, the Bidens, who are doing the

731
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 4: same thing. And so people are genuinely upset about corruption,

732
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 4: petty corruption like this in addition to like really serious

733
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 4: major corruption, Saudi corruption. We're going to talk about potential

734
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 4: Iran corruption. These sorts of things like genuinely do really

735
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 4: bother Trump voters, but they see it as something that's

736
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,399
Speaker 4: Ronald Trump has sort of set his sights on. Now.

737
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 4: I think your reporting on Jared Kushner should give people

738
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 4: serious pause Trump supporter serious pause as to whether that's true,

739
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 4: as to whether he's sincere when he says he's set

740
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 4: his sights on actually undercutting the power of American elites

741
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 4: on every level, that Trump voters are bothered by one

742
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 4: hundred percent, So that's a different conversation. But again, like

743
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 4: people have a very real reason for seeing Trump in

744
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 4: that sense. They believe that, like he's somebody he profited

745
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 4: and benefited from this system and then decided to basically

746
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 4: destroy it. The question is whether he actually wants to

747
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 4: undermine and destroy it.

748
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then right, but then then once you're behind him,

749
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 3: it becomes a team sport, it becomes negative polarization. And

750
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 3: if you think, you know, Biden is like a pedophile

751
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 3: communist who's trying to sell the country to the Chinese,

752
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 3: and then you really don't care, right, what what your opponent?

753
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 3: I mean, what what Trump? What's wrong with Trump? Because

754
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 3: like that that's your that you're going to ride.

755
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 4: And that's another thing to the point earlier I know,

756
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 4: we have to move on that you made about how

757
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 4: I don't think any real estate developer in New York

758
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 4: would want to invite this kind of scrutiny. That's another

759
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 4: thing that's going to really irritate people here, and I

760
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 4: think rightfully so, Uh, that's not to say Trump didn't

761
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 4: do anything wrong, because I think he was obviously doing

762
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 4: something wrong, but it then feels like like witch hunt

763
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 4: stuff once again, that Donald Trump is being singled out.

764
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 4: Nobody else is going to be singled out, even real

765
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 4: estate developers or similar business people who have given a

766
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 4: bunch of money to Democrats. Just going after Trump because

767
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 4: he's Trump, because it's the They're not after me, they're

768
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 4: after you. Meme that he posted when he was president,

769
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 4: and that is there's truth to it, and it resonates

770
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 4: because of that. So that will, I mean, I think

771
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 4: that'll loom large in the minds of people who when

772
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 4: we're talking about you know, if you ask Hione why,

773
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 4: like do you care about the money that goes to

774
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 4: Jared Kushner and his relationship with MBS, et cetera, et cetera,

775
00:40:55,680 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 4: people will say, listen, this is it's more serious than

776
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 4: that would be the response. Now, I think both of

777
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 4: us would would disagree, but I get why when you

778
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 4: look at some of this stuff, at least on paper,

779
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,760
Speaker 4: it does seem like just a slap in the face

780
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 4: of the Trump voters. In addition to Donald Trump, right.

781
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,919
Speaker 3: But he didn't have to deport Joe Judice. He didn't

782
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 3: have to deport joju and Judice was deported under Trump

783
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 3: that's right. Deporter in Chief's actually that was Obama. He

784
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 3: could have pardoned confusing your deporters and jee, but he

785
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 3: did deport Joe.

786
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 4: That's right.

787
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 3: He had a chance to pardon him, didn't.

788
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 9: Well.

789
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 4: Shout out to Joe Judice, who I believe is in.

790
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 3: The Obamas's That's that's right. So wild story in Samophore

791
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 3: about Iran. You want to set this one up because.

792
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 4: Uh yeah, so this story made really big waves when

793
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 4: it published in Samaphore yesterday. And actually I saw the

794
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,720
Speaker 4: Free Press, which was very Wise's publication, republished it just today.

795
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 4: We can go ahead and put c one up on

796
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 4: the screen. This is a little bit from the Semaphore story,

797
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 4: and I'm going to read from it here, except my

798
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 4: notes got mixed up and I don't have it in

799
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 4: front of me. Ryan, Do you have it in front

800
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:07,879
Speaker 4: of you?

801
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 3: I don't. But while you look for it, I'll make

802
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 3: the point that it's very nice to see Barry Wise

803
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 3: show some interest in a foreign government trying to influence Washington.

804
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 3: If she's really wants to get on that beat, I

805
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 3: can point to a number of other countries that that

806
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 3: are kind of in that broad region that she might

807
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,399
Speaker 3: want to look at because it's kind of there's kind

808
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 3: of a lot going on there.

809
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 4: Well, here's the right, of course, is alluding to Israel.

810
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 4: The Semaphore story starts by saying, in the spring of

811
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 4: twenty fourteen, because the story talks both about the Obama

812
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 4: administration and the current Biden administration, the Special Envoy to Irun,

813
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 4: Robert O'Malley or Robert malllee, is brought into this story

814
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 4: in some ways that are probably expected. Obviously he came

815
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,959
Speaker 4: under investigation. I think it's an ongoing investigation into Rob

816
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,800
Speaker 4: mallie's handling of classified documents.

817
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:06,280
Speaker 3: Which Iran envoy and like the lead Iran nuclear deal guy.

818
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 4: Yes, right, And so the story says. In the spring

819
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 4: of twenty fourteen, senior Iranian foreign ministry officials initiated a

820
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 4: quiet effort to bolster Tehran's imagion positions on global security issues,

821
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 4: particularly its nuclear program, by building ties with a network

822
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 4: of influential overseas academics and researchers. They called it the

823
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 4: Iran Experts Initiative. The scope and scale of the IEI

824
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 4: project has emerged in a large cache of Iranian government

825
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,800
Speaker 4: correspondence and emails reported for the first time by Semaphore

826
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 4: and Iran International. The officials working under the moderate President

827
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 4: Hassan Rahani congratulated themselves on the impact of the initiative.

828
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 4: At least three of the people and this is the

829
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 4: big kind of bombshell, as it was perceived yesterday, at

830
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 4: least three of the people on the foreign ministries list

831
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 4: were or became top aids to Robert Malley, the Biden

832
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 4: administration Special envoy on Iran, who was placed on leave

833
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 4: this June following the suspension of his security clearance, and

834
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 4: so Ryan. I think the IEE this is a statement

835
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 4: that's in the story. They talk about how this is.

836
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 4: They're spinning it as kind of a mundane outreach effort

837
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,800
Speaker 4: to second generation Iranians in different parts of the world.

838
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:17,720
Speaker 4: I think one of the big questions here is the funding,

839
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 4: because it seems nebulously attributed to a European government. I

840
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 4: think is what comes up over and over again in

841
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 4: the story, but nobody says who that European government is.

842
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 4: We don't quite know what people were getting paid for.

843
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 4: There was a lot of arranging of op eds, seemingly

844
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 4: people working for our government checking in with people working

845
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,959
Speaker 4: in the Iranian government. About decisions on whether to speak

846
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,399
Speaker 4: in certain panels like Israel came into the picture on

847
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 4: one of those questions, So you know, what, do you

848
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 4: see this. Let's actually just put the next element up

849
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 4: on the screen for a response from We're going to

850
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 4: take or Tegas, who was a spokesperson for Mike Pompeo

851
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 4: when he was a Secretary of State. She said, it's

852
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 4: not very often that my jaw drops open while reading

853
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 4: an article, as it did with the semaphore piece. There's

854
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,800
Speaker 4: no two ways around this. Top Obama and Biden officials

855
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 4: were a part of a foreign influence operation by the

856
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 4: Iranian regime, some of who are still in government holding

857
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 4: security clearances. This comes on top of the news that

858
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 4: Rob Mallee, Biden's Iran envoy, had to leave his position

859
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 4: over his security clearance being revoked. Bombshell, Ryan or not,

860
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 4: I did.

861
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 3: Not think so. And there's like a lot of smoke

862
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:33,760
Speaker 3: in that in that post by Morgan or Tagus there

863
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 3: one is the is the kind of conflation of this

864
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 3: comes on the top of the news like that's that's

865
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 3: a way that people like to link things together that

866
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:46,760
Speaker 3: aren't aren't linked. My understanding is that this security clearance

867
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 3: was a this was a fight that he was having

868
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 3: with basically the deep state. Like, so people who were

869
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 3: like cheering on Rob Malley getting his security clearance stripped,

870
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,879
Speaker 3: if they, you know, they should should think a little

871
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 3: bit more carefully before they because he was pushing harder.

872
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 3: Then a lot of people kind of in the intelligence

873
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 3: community wanted on the on the Iran nuclear deal, and

874
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 3: this was kind of some payback. But we'll say, like

875
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,240
Speaker 3: the seven four reports that there might be an FBI

876
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 3: investigation that's ongoing. Like, but again, just because you don't

877
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 3: like Rob Malley doesn't necessarily mean the FBI is right

878
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 3: on all these these questions. So the broader point here

879
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 3: she says they were a part of a quote, they

880
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,800
Speaker 3: were part of a foreign influence operation by the Iranian regime.

881
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 3: It does seem very clear that the Iranian regime, you know,

882
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 3: tried to set up an influence.

883
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 4: Operation absolutely and successfully did.

884
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 3: Where they were you know, they created a platform where

885
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 3: people would they would hold conferences. People would go to

886
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 3: the conferences, would speak on panels, would talk to other experts,

887
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 3: and then you would hope to like influence them and

888
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 3: from there they would go to se and eight they're

889
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 3: talking points either on if they get them on cable,

890
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 3: they're very lucky. If they can get them into print,

891
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 3: Uh then that then that that's decent too. Uh what

892
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,359
Speaker 3: what what kind of made jumped out of me about

893
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 3: this story is how also mundane? It seems a old

894
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 3: like the current Iranian regime. Uh, it doesn't like Malley,

895
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,479
Speaker 3: like it's like hostile to them. It's like it's comp

896
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 3: like so whatever whatever whatever claims might be made certainly

897
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 3: aren't true anymore. There's also like every country does this,

898
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 3: Like there's not like Iran is under sanctions and so

899
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 3: is limited in what it can do when it lobbies.

900
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 3: I mean, it's barred basically from lobbying. But Washington is

901
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 3: just fueled by foreign money and so to watch and

902
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 3: so to see this be something that is read as

903
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 3: jaw dropping. While the Egyptian government is bribing the chair

904
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 3: of Senate Far related committee, like that's an influence operation. Yeah,

905
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 3: that's like, but that's a dictator who's on our side,

906
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 3: So you're not going to see outrage. And I was

907
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 3: kind of jokingly referring to Israel when it's talking about

908
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,839
Speaker 3: Barry Wise, but not just Israel, Saudi Arabia, the Nine

909
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 3: Arab Emirates, the Cotteries, Turkey, like all of these countries

910
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 3: run these massive influence operations Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine with Podesta.

911
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 4: Podesta, Yeah, the European Center for a Modern Ukraine. Google

912
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 4: the European Center for a Modern Ukraine. It's very similar

913
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 4: to this. Actually, it's basically a front group that's created

914
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 4: by a foreign government to do this very innocuous looking

915
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 4: influence operation. You can say this was I would like

916
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 4: a meeting with Menandez's office on behalf of the European

917
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 4: Center for a Modern Ukraine, which sounds different than saying

918
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 4: on behalf of Yanikovic. It's much easier to say, I

919
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,040
Speaker 4: would like And that's.

920
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 3: Just like they was set up this IEI thing what

921
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 3: it was called, yeah, exactly, and so they and you

922
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:06,919
Speaker 3: get a European government to co fund it, so that

923
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 3: that gets you around the sanctions problem.

924
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 4: Right And guess probably for the European Center from Modern

925
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 4: Ukraine is a good example of how this works because

926
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 4: the way that was set up, it was a shell

927
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 4: nonprofit based in Europe, and that way they tried to

928
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 4: get around registering as foreign agents, and that's going to

929
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 4: be a problem for the people that are implicated in this.

930
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 4: And like you said, Ryan, Washington is run by foreign money.

931
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 4: If they were actually getting money, if they were doing things,

932
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 4: that's yeah, that is that is a really that will

933
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 4: be a huge problem for them. And I'm going to

934
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 4: read this. I alluded to this earlier, but arian tibought

935
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 4: to buy the current Pentagon official so she works for

936
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 4: the Pentagon right now, and at last at least two

937
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 4: occasions checked in with Iron's Foreign ministry before attending policy events.

938
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 4: According to the emails, she wrote to the Zarani and

939
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 4: Farcia on June twenty seven, twenty fourteen, to say she'd

940
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 4: met with Saudi Prince Turkey el alf I saw a

941
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,959
Speaker 4: former ambassador to the US, who expressed interest in working

942
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 4: together and invited her to Saudi Arabia. She also said

943
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 4: she'd been invited to attend a workshop on Iron's nuclear

944
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 4: program at benger And University in Israel. I'm not interested

945
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 4: in going, but then I thought maybe it would be

946
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 4: better that I go and talk rather than in ISRAELI

947
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,320
Speaker 4: like Emily Landau, who goes and disseminates this information, I

948
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,839
Speaker 4: would like to ask your opinion too, and see if

949
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 4: you think I should accept the invitation and go, so

950
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,840
Speaker 4: Rani replied the same day. All things considered, it seems

951
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 4: Saudi Arabia is a good case, but the second case,

952
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 4: Israel is better to be avoided. Thanks, and she responds,

953
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 4: thank you for your advice. I will take action regarding

954
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 4: Saudi Arabia and will keep you updated on the progress.

955
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 4: There's no evidence to Badibaye went to the conference in Israel. There,

956
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,879
Speaker 4: her books and research reports suggest she's interviewed a number

957
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:43,359
Speaker 4: of senior Israeli officials. So ran I think you're right.

958
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:48,840
Speaker 4: This does absolutely resemble just about I don't know, like

959
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:54,280
Speaker 4: many influence operations in size and and scope. The difference,

960
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 4: of course between Hungary or Ukraine is that this is

961
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 4: an adversarial nuclear power, I think, and that's you know,

962
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 4: that is genuinely different. And I mean, obviously I'm sure

963
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:12,320
Speaker 4: you could find similar cases with Israel, Definitely with Cutter,

964
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 4: Definitely with other countries like that Egypt, although that seems

965
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 4: to be a much more theatrically comedic, almost like Greek

966
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:29,879
Speaker 4: comedy type influence operation that's not directly connected to some

967
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 4: like formal apparatus, right, Like they just went right to

968
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:36,760
Speaker 4: Menendez and saying we're doing this respectable form of influence pedaling,

969
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 4: which is to create a shell group.

970
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the understanding in Washington since CC took power

971
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 3: is that Yusuf allow Taba, who is the UAE's ambassador,

972
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 3: has been operating also as the kind of ambassador from Egypt.

973
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 3: Like this very bizarre situation because the UA funded what

974
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 3: was it called, I forget the Arab Arabic word, but

975
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 3: for that mess protest against Morsey and the Muslim Brotherhood

976
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 3: government that led to the military coup. UE funded that,

977
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 3: and afterwards the UAE basically became kind of the lobbying

978
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 3: vehicle for the Egyptians in in Washington and would lobby

979
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 3: for its ability to get weapons and aid and said

980
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:24,239
Speaker 3: it did all this diplomacy, And so I think this

981
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 3: is probably some weird like freelancing because they don't have

982
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 3: any diplomatic muscles because the UA flexes them all. And

983
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 3: so you've got these freelancers Coen brother types on the

984
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 3: side giving gold bars to Menendez.

985
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 4: Well you added another element to this, Oh, yes, different,

986
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:47,840
Speaker 4: it's a different layer. Ryan tell us about the reporter

987
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 4: who broke this story, j Solomon, who has a little

988
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 4: bit of a history with around himself.

989
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, so put up this next element. This is New

990
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:58,319
Speaker 3: York Times a couple of years ago reporting Wall Street

991
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 3: Journal fire's reporter with ties to Iranian born magnate. That

992
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 3: is about Jay Solomon, who had always been known as

993
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:11,400
Speaker 3: if a bit hawkish, but a well sourced reporter for

994
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:13,280
Speaker 3: the Wall Street Journal. All of a sudden he was fired,

995
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,879
Speaker 3: and that came just ahead of an Associated Press investigation

996
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 3: into him, uncovering the fact that he was in talks

997
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:25,800
Speaker 3: with this Iranian born magnate to launch a bunch of

998
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:29,880
Speaker 3: different business deals. So this is the reporter who was

999
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:37,840
Speaker 3: then hired by Semaphore in order to cover the Middle

1000
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 3: East and is now writing about this influence operation. You know,

1001
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 3: he himself was fired for getting into a financial arrangement

1002
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 3: with his like leading source who was and this was

1003
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 3: UAE related like. So to go back to what we

1004
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 3: were saying about the Amoradis, he was an Iranian born magnate,

1005
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 3: but he was someone who worked very closely with the

1006
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 3: m or So the Amidis had something of an influence

1007
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 3: operation going on. This Wall Street Journal reporter who then

1008
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 3: got fired and then later got hired later by Samophorre

1009
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,919
Speaker 3: to write about an Iranian influence operation. So that's why

1010
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 3: you have to kind of forgive me for being like

1011
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 3: really like this, this is a bombshell.

1012
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 4: It is to the extent I mean, I think it's

1013
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 4: a very serious story, to the extent that there are

1014
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 4: people in the Biden administration right now that seem to

1015
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 4: have cozy or well maybe warmer ties with the Iranians

1016
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 4: than they should given the state of the country, the

1017
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 4: state of Iran. So I think, you know, the current

1018
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 4: ties are genuinely problematic. Twenty fourteen was a somewhat different

1019
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 4: time period, and obviously we could have a different conversation

1020
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 4: about the nuclear deal. I think to the extent that

1021
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 4: it reflects on current Biden administration officials, that's problematic. But

1022
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 4: I totally take your point. It's a little.

1023
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 3: Bit a little rich, little rich.

1024
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1025
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:04,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. He recently he sued over getting hacked and having

1026
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 3: his emails exposed, which then exposed this corruption scandal, and

1027
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 3: the case was just I think last week or so,

1028
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 3: it was just it was dismissed. That can't go forward.

1029
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 4: And as to the veracity of this trove of documents,

1030
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 4: some of the reported that they scraped metadata, They did

1031
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 4: an analysis and there's no evidence of it having been changed.

1032
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 4: People can take that for what they will, but certainly

1033
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 4: a story that the kind of over on.

1034
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of if this is all they got

1035
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:40,800
Speaker 3: so far, it probably wasn't changed. Like, it's pretty mundane stuff.

1036
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:46,879
Speaker 4: Obviously, with Ukraine, the Forefront, Iran, China, all of those

1037
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 4: kind of powers now increasingly seeming to communicate with each

1038
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 4: other and agree with each other on different questions is

1039
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 4: a huge issue for the Biden administration. So this definitely

1040
00:55:57,160 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 4: isn't going anywhere, and we will continue to follow it

1041
00:55:59,640 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 4: for sure.

1042
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 3: Now the actual global espionage scandal is the one we're

1043
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 3: going to talk about next, and this is the latest wrinkle.

1044
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 3: A JP Morgan decides that it is going to settle

1045
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 3: with the Virgin Islands over its relationship with with Jeffrey Epstein.

1046
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:24,400
Speaker 3: Just scandalous beginning to end. Do we have, Yeah, we

1047
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:27,960
Speaker 3: have JP Morgan getting asked about this most unfortunate connection

1048
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 3: that they had to Jeffrey Epstein. Let's play diamond here.

1049
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 4: How are you feeling about the Epstein deposition this month?

1050
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 10: I am so sad that we had any relations with

1051
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 10: that man whatsoever. You know, we had top lawyers of

1052
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 10: valueing this from this SEC enforcement, the DOJ, you know,

1053
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 10: and obviously have we known then we know today, we

1054
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 10: would have done things differently. But it's very unfortunate. And

1055
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 10: I have deep respect for these women. That doesn't mean

1056
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 10: reliable for the action of an individual, but I do

1057
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 10: have deep respect for them. My heart goes out to them.

1058
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:02,919
Speaker 10: And he's so tan Brian.

1059
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 4: That's from about four months ago. So they were asking

1060
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:10,359
Speaker 4: about the deposition that month of Jamie Diamond and other executives.

1061
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:10,800
Speaker 3: At jeff Reson original.

1062
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 4: One thing he said, yeah, so one thing he said

1063
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 4: right there that was interesting. He said, obviously, if we

1064
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 4: had known then what we know today, we wouldn't have

1065
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 4: had this business arrangement with Jeffrey Epstein. But of course

1066
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,880
Speaker 4: that's part of the problem here is that JP Morgan

1067
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 4: did have indications they did know. And this is one

1068
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 4: of the biggest remaining questions, and it's not even a

1069
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 4: question in many cases why people Bill Gates included continued

1070
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 4: to have relationships with business personal Jeffrey Epstein after he

1071
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 4: got that sweetheart plea deal down in Florida that at

1072
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 4: the very least exposed him as a predator that's the problem,

1073
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 4: and that's not nobody. Nobody has a good answer to

1074
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 4: that question, not Bill Gates, not JP Morgan, Which is

1075
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 4: where you get this seventy five millillion dollar settlement. And

1076
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 4: actually it's worth noting that's the same amount that Deutsche

1077
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 4: Bank agreed to pay Epstein victims. I'm actually reading from

1078
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 4: CNBC here to settle a third Manhattan federal court lawsuit

1079
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 4: that alleged the bank facilitated his sex trafficking when he

1080
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 4: was a customer from twenty thirteen through twenty eighteen. So

1081
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 4: look at those years. Pretty important. Now. The CNBC report

1082
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:24,040
Speaker 4: also notes the deals come months after a separate two

1083
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 4: hundred and ninety dollars million dollar settlement by JP Morgan

1084
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 4: with victims of the now dead predators the Virgin Islands.

1085
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 4: Previous predator the Virgin Islands previously obtained a one hundred

1086
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 4: and five million dollar settlement for Epstein's estate and another

1087
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 4: sixty two million dollars from billionaire investor Leon Black to

1088
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 4: resolve potential claims related to Epstein. Now, this money from

1089
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 4: JP Morgan is going to attorney's fees for the Virgin

1090
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 4: Island and Virgin Islands, and what they described infrastructure to

1091
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 4: help them with sex trafficking and victims and all of that.

1092
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 4: Man For JP Morgan, seventy five million dollars not a

1093
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 4: huge amount. For Deutsche Bank seventy five million dollars, not

1094
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 4: a huge amount, especially when they're doing okay right now.

1095
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 4: But when you add that to the two hundred and

1096
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 4: ninety million dollars that they had to give to the victims,

1097
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 4: that's that's stacked up. That's a costly error. Obviously, they

1098
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 4: probably still the money, of course that was alluding to it.

1099
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 3: Right, but they probably still made money off of it

1100
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 3: in the end. Absolutely, And there are some the incentives

1101
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 3: here are for these you know, banks who work with

1102
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 3: these massively rich people to just look the other way.

1103
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 3: And it's so arcane and opaque that it's this constant

1104
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 3: cat and mouse game between the regulators and the banks.

1105
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:49,400
Speaker 3: And the cats are tiny, the mice are huge. It's

1106
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 3: just they're just hunting the dark. It says, you know,

1107
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 3: JP Morriy did not admit any wrongdoing in the settlement,

1108
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 3: which will give fifty five million dollars to Virginia Island's

1109
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 3: charities and the American Territories anti tree efforts. So as

1110
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 3: the Virginia Islands said the deal quote includes several substantial

1111
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 3: commitments by JP Morgan Chase to identify, report, and cut

1112
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 3: off support for potential human trafficking, including establishing and implementing

1113
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 3: comprehensive policies and procedures unquote. That's the good that's the

1114
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 3: hard part. And also they don't want to do it

1115
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 3: right like it, so, yeah, they just have to constantly

1116
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 3: be exposed and pressured. Otherwise their incentive is to just

1117
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 3: allow their clients to just move money, you know, in

1118
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 3: whatever way they feel like they can get away with.

1119
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 4: Yes, and yeah, it becomes the tax of doing business.

1120
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 4: It's like a fee, right, Like you're going to have

1121
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 4: to pay some settlement down the road if it turns

1122
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 4: out that this guy you have really good indications might

1123
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:48,960
Speaker 4: be a sex trafficker, is sex trafficking and you're facilitating it.

1124
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:52,520
Speaker 4: I think it's actually the case itself is actually a

1125
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 4: pretty interesting test of liability and the law regarding liability

1126
01:00:56,760 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 4: and bank liability. But it's very very clear that the

1127
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 4: relationship top executives that JP Morgan had with Jeffrey Epstein

1128
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 4: was wildly inappropriate. The legality of it is obviously a

1129
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 4: different question. But they are one of many organizations and

1130
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 4: people who continue to do business with him and continue

1131
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 4: to have personal business with him beyond when it was appropriate, including,

1132
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 4: by the way, the Virgin Islands, which is another interesting

1133
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 4: layer in the story. Lee Fong has done excellent reporting

1134
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 4: on this. This is a headline from Lee in August

1135
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 4: fired ag leading Epstein inquiry reveals the Virgin Islands governor

1136
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 4: pressured her on pedophile's behalf. A subheading. His newly followed

1137
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 4: court documents show that the Virgin Islands Attorney General investigating

1138
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 4: Epstein faced political pressure to give the pedophile a special waiver.

1139
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,760
Speaker 4: He needed a special waiver in the Virgin Islands, and

1140
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 4: he got it, and it looks as though he was

1141
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 4: I mean, he was lavishing people in the Virgin Islands

1142
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:54,480
Speaker 4: with donations and political donations, all kinds of stuff in

1143
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 4: order to get the treatment that he needed to be

1144
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 4: doing business down there. And so it's not just JP

1145
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,640
Speaker 4: Morgan that was complicit. And so the settlement with the

1146
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 4: Virgin Islands is interesting because there's more and more reporting

1147
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 4: coming out that a lot of people in the Virgin

1148
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 4: Islands seem to be compromised beyond ethical relation, beyond sort

1149
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 4: of normal ethics with Jeffrey Epstein.

1150
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, good point, Like, it's definitely not only JP Morgan.

1151
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:21,959
Speaker 3: And if you're even going to sympathize with JP Morgan

1152
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 3: for a second, you're going to say, from JP Morgan's perspective,

1153
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:26,280
Speaker 3: going to say, wait a minute, this guy's hanging out

1154
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 3: with foreign presidents, foreign prime ministers, members of the royal family.

1155
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 3: Everybody's talking about how he's like an intelligence asset for

1156
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 3: maybe multiple countries. Of course we're doing business with him,

1157
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 3: and now all of a sudden, we're not supposed to

1158
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:43,960
Speaker 3: do business with friends of presidents who are intelligence assets.

1159
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 3: Were JP Morgan Chase, It's it's your fault for letting

1160
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:49,800
Speaker 3: all of this unravel, right.

1161
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:53,680
Speaker 4: And I mean, I think that's another thing is these

1162
01:02:53,680 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 4: settlements are preventing some exposure probably of why people felt

1163
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 4: pressured or beyond money, Because places like JP Morgan have

1164
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 4: plenty of money, their reason for doing business with Jeffrey

1165
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 4: Epstein might be different than Virgin Islands. People in the

1166
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 4: Virgin Islands government officials sort of petty bureaucrats reasons to

1167
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 4: do business with Jeffrey Epstein and the intelligence ties are

1168
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 4: probably the biggest missing puzzle piece, and you know, it's

1169
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 4: not entirely missing. We have some good reporting that Jeffrey

1170
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 4: Epstein was Massad, was affiliated with Massad, so there's plenty.

1171
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 4: There's plenty to that, and I think there's probably some explanation,

1172
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:39,240
Speaker 4: partially an explanation for why we saw so many powerful

1173
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:42,680
Speaker 4: people continue to have relationships with him when they did.

1174
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:46,479
Speaker 4: But this is, you know, again, the cost of doing

1175
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:49,520
Speaker 4: business if you're JP Morgan, might just be a fat

1176
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 4: legal settlement down the road. And to your point, Ryan,

1177
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 4: I'd love to know if they still came out on top,

1178
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 4: because I think there's a good chance, when Epstein was

1179
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 4: moving as much money as he was, that they did.

1180
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:03,440
Speaker 4: All Right, Well, there's big news yesterday from the FTC

1181
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 4: and Amazon. Things are getting heated. Ryan, tell us what happened.

1182
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:11,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, so dark Brandon rises again. So not only was

1183
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 3: he on the picket line, his his neon eyes were

1184
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 3: blasting Amazon from the FTC and put up this one

1185
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 3: right here. So Lena Khan joined with seventeen attorneys general

1186
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 3: from around the country to file a landmark suit against Amazon.

1187
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:31,960
Speaker 3: Matt Stoller will be here later this week to kind

1188
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 3: of unpack precisely what's going on. Here where what we

1189
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:36,440
Speaker 3: can expect.

1190
01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 4: Whether you want it or not, He's going to explain

1191
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:40,000
Speaker 4: it to you.

1192
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:41,400
Speaker 3: He's going to explain it to you. You're going to

1193
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 3: love it.

1194
01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 4: He's going to man explain it to you.

1195
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 3: But basically, what they're accusing him of is abusing their

1196
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:50,640
Speaker 3: marketplace power. There are there's a number of details that

1197
01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 3: they get into around the way that they say, you

1198
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:56,160
Speaker 3: you know, so you're on Amazon, You've got that like

1199
01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:59,240
Speaker 3: little you know, buy now add to kard thing underneath

1200
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 3: the product. What Amazon would do is they would kind

1201
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:04,680
Speaker 3: of crawl the rest of the Internet and find if

1202
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:08,920
Speaker 3: you're a third party seller and you're selling on Amazon

1203
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 3: for eighteen ninety nine, but you're selling on some other

1204
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:13,919
Speaker 3: site for seventeen ninety nine. Let's say your own site

1205
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 3: is you want to bring people there, you want to

1206
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:19,280
Speaker 3: keep the data, you want to build a business. They

1207
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 3: would see that and boom, they take that buy button

1208
01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 3: away and that just annihilates your sales. And so what

1209
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 3: that did is it sent a signal to all of

1210
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 3: these third party sellers that Amazon gets to set the price,

1211
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 3: like whatever your Amazon price is, if you go a

1212
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 3: penny below that anywhere else, they're going to nuke your business.

1213
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 3: And that's just one example of the way that they

1214
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:43,920
Speaker 3: do that, but there are a ton of others where

1215
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:48,560
Speaker 3: you know, they will see which products of theirs are

1216
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:52,040
Speaker 3: selling us are selling well, which third party products, and

1217
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 3: then they'll quickly kind of make a crappy generic version

1218
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:58,640
Speaker 3: of it, or even if it is there already is

1219
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:01,920
Speaker 3: a generic version, and then and then they'll undersell the

1220
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 3: third party seller. There are rules around, you know, in

1221
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 3: grocery stores, for instance, that a grocery store, let's say

1222
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:13,320
Speaker 3: it's Acme and they've got Acme cereal, they cannot kind

1223
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 3: of privilege their own their own product on the shelves

1224
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:21,360
Speaker 3: against competitors' products. Like the ideas like the store is

1225
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:24,000
Speaker 3: a platform. You're welcome to sell your own products in

1226
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:27,640
Speaker 3: that store, but you can't take your competitor's stuff and

1227
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:29,760
Speaker 3: put it at the back of the shelf. Because that's

1228
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 3: just as a society rules that we have put into

1229
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 3: place because we want fair competition. What this is trying

1230
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 3: to do is apply that to Amazon's marketplace.

1231
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:44,560
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, well, and Amazon's argument is one that a

1232
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 4: lot of like anti antitrust people will It's like the

1233
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:53,360
Speaker 4: very familiar one that basically Amazon is being published punished

1234
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 4: for being too successful and for being too efficient, right,

1235
01:06:56,600 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 4: that this is something consumers want and it benefits consumers.

1236
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:04,600
Speaker 4: And again like this is such a it's they make

1237
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:07,600
Speaker 4: that it's intentionally helpful for them, because it's one of

1238
01:07:07,600 --> 01:07:11,000
Speaker 4: those things that makes it almost impossible to disprove because

1239
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:14,000
Speaker 4: we don't have the experiment of what would happen if

1240
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:17,560
Speaker 4: Amazon wasn't engaging in these types of practices. That's the

1241
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 4: entire point is that they are blocking competition and if

1242
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:24,960
Speaker 4: we could see competition, like it's actually not a fair

1243
01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:27,920
Speaker 4: playing field because we can't see how they're interaction with

1244
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:31,840
Speaker 4: interacting with competition, which is, by the way, what's at

1245
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:34,160
Speaker 4: stake in the Google anti trust suit as well, in

1246
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 4: that Google has been intentionally blocking fair access to competitive

1247
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:41,920
Speaker 4: playing competitive right.

1248
01:07:42,200 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, it's three weeks into the Google Search trial

1249
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:46,840
Speaker 3: right now, and I think that's a place where people

1250
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 3: can just understand, go to Google Search, it's like it's

1251
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 3: worse than it was before, and that you know that

1252
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:55,520
Speaker 3: it's not the trajectory that we want. We want things

1253
01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:58,400
Speaker 3: to be better over time, not worse. It's kind of

1254
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 3: amazing to think that con was a Yale law student

1255
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 3: six years ago when she published her kind of landmark

1256
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:10,680
Speaker 3: Yelle Law Review piece about Amazon called the Amazon Paradox

1257
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:16,120
Speaker 3: or something like that, about how the current interpretation of

1258
01:08:16,280 --> 01:08:21,560
Speaker 3: anti trust laws was making it so that what Amazon

1259
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:24,600
Speaker 3: was doing was considered to be by anti trust regulators

1260
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:29,760
Speaker 3: to be okay, yet they were monopolizing everything, which is

1261
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:32,439
Speaker 3: a clear paradox, like you don't have anti trust laws

1262
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 3: if what Amazon does is considered to be within those laws.

1263
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 3: Right and now here she is as the head of

1264
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 3: the FTC suing Amazon six years later, and this is

1265
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 3: kind of an amazing run.

1266
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:44,679
Speaker 4: It is amazing. And by the way, she has support

1267
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:47,439
Speaker 4: from people like Josh Holly, who we talked about earlier

1268
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:50,160
Speaker 4: in the show, where people are skeptical of whether Josh

1269
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 4: Holly is just doing it for show when he's going

1270
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:55,599
Speaker 4: and supporting union members, and we talked earlier about how

1271
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:57,760
Speaker 4: even if he is doing it for show, the substance

1272
01:08:57,800 --> 01:09:00,559
Speaker 4: actually is there and it might not trans into more

1273
01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:02,920
Speaker 4: substance down the line, but whether he wants it to

1274
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:06,439
Speaker 4: or not, it's helpful to the workers. It is helpful

1275
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:09,599
Speaker 4: to have people like Josh Hally supporting and in some

1276
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:15,960
Speaker 4: cases other Republican senators supporting these anti trust investigations and suits.

1277
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:18,160
Speaker 3: Because he's been a huge supporter of hers. Yeah.

1278
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:19,920
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And again this is somebody who comes out of

1279
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 4: Warren World. Lena Kahan Elizabeth Warren is partially why she

1280
01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:26,439
Speaker 4: ran for president of twenty twenty. She became enemy number

1281
01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 4: one of basically the conservative movement and the business community,

1282
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:32,160
Speaker 4: which were way more hand in glove than they used

1283
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:34,800
Speaker 4: to be. If you went to Seapac, you know, just

1284
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 4: ten years ago, it was all these events were sponsored

1285
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 4: by Google and Facebook, and they were, you know, the

1286
01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:42,599
Speaker 4: best parties there, to the extent that that's an honor.

1287
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:47,599
Speaker 4: They were like lavishing some of these pro business groups,

1288
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:50,880
Speaker 4: and you know, that was just a that was it

1289
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:54,080
Speaker 4: wasn't so much that they bought support as at the time.

1290
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:58,679
Speaker 4: That's sort of sincere pro business, anti government or limited

1291
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 4: government concerntive ideology was hand in glove with them on

1292
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:06,880
Speaker 4: these business issues, not necessarily the cultural issues, as Republicans

1293
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:08,920
Speaker 4: came to find out down the road. But it is

1294
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:11,160
Speaker 4: kind of remarkable to see Lena Khan in the position

1295
01:10:11,200 --> 01:10:14,360
Speaker 4: that she's in coming from Warren World, coming from and

1296
01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:16,559
Speaker 4: you see this crop up like Ted Cruz has attacked

1297
01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:21,439
Speaker 4: Lena Khan for being you know, basically even Republicans that

1298
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:23,760
Speaker 4: support are on certain things don't agree with everything she does,

1299
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:26,719
Speaker 4: which by the way, is fine. But she gets attacked

1300
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:30,200
Speaker 4: as like a radical, like a Bernie radical, and which

1301
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:32,800
Speaker 4: is interesting because there are some Republicans who would say, yeah,

1302
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:36,759
Speaker 4: we need radical Bernieism in the anti trust space because

1303
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 4: these tech companies are it's very similar to what we

1304
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:43,439
Speaker 4: saw with like rail hundreds of years ago, which is

1305
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:46,600
Speaker 4: that it's a new technology and we don't have the

1306
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:51,200
Speaker 4: sort of infrastructure, muscle memory, and legal precedent about these technologies.

1307
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:54,160
Speaker 4: So when Amazon can put these buy buttons add to

1308
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 4: cart buttons next to other people's products, like, that's just

1309
01:10:57,240 --> 01:11:00,200
Speaker 4: an interesting new dilemma that we don't have precedence or

1310
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 4: we don't have exact apples to apples.

1311
01:11:02,479 --> 01:11:05,320
Speaker 3: For And it's not a coincidence that she flows out

1312
01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:09,280
Speaker 3: of Warren world rather than Bernie world, because Warren, you know,

1313
01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:12,759
Speaker 3: is a former Republican who talks about how she loves markets,

1314
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 3: and it's it's the way, it's a way to blend

1315
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:18,320
Speaker 3: her kind of progressivism with with that kind of love

1316
01:11:18,360 --> 01:11:22,880
Speaker 3: of well regulated markets, whereas kind of traditional socialist types

1317
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:26,400
Speaker 3: are fine with big big as good for them because

1318
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:32,760
Speaker 3: that's a bigger company to be organized, nationalized, nationalized and regulated.

1319
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:36,800
Speaker 3: And there's a you know, there's a as as John

1320
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:39,000
Speaker 3: Kenneth Galbraith would talk about, there's like a kind of

1321
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 3: fine line between, you know, something that is firmly, solidly

1322
01:11:43,120 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 3: regulated and controlled by the state and something that's outright nationalized.

1323
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:50,040
Speaker 3: Like some ways it's you're just talking at the margins

1324
01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:50,559
Speaker 3: at that point.

1325
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:53,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's where I think, you know, we would

1326
01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:57,720
Speaker 4: we would we starved apart because you know, it's it's

1327
01:11:57,760 --> 01:12:00,800
Speaker 4: it's very difficult and there's there's very little precedent, I

1328
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:03,520
Speaker 4: think for not having a symbiotic, sort of croneous relationship

1329
01:12:03,560 --> 01:12:06,800
Speaker 4: at that point. But to the point of people from

1330
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 4: Warren World and like in your camp, it's the end

1331
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 4: goal isn't cronyism, that symbiotic relationship. It is nationalizing things

1332
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:16,560
Speaker 4: like Twitter.

1333
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:19,760
Speaker 3: Companies or yeah for the Bernie left, but yeah, for

1334
01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:22,479
Speaker 3: the Warren right left there like just it's fundamentally kind

1335
01:12:22,479 --> 01:12:24,680
Speaker 3: of conservative impulse. So it makes sense that there's this

1336
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:26,040
Speaker 3: alliance there.

1337
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:32,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely right. You were on Capitol Hill yesterday, you

1338
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:37,320
Speaker 4: were following literally a drama and all the dynamics. What

1339
01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:39,519
Speaker 4: have you got for us on this shutdown? That is

1340
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:40,960
Speaker 4: definitely coming up?

1341
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:43,599
Speaker 3: So we're headed for a government shutdown on Saturday. Even

1342
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:46,320
Speaker 3: though a majority of Republicans in the Senate on Tuesday

1343
01:12:46,400 --> 01:12:49,760
Speaker 3: voted to move forward on a bipartisan spending bill to

1344
01:12:49,880 --> 01:12:52,720
Speaker 3: keep it open. That's because a group of House Republicans

1345
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:55,400
Speaker 3: is refusing to let anything come to the floor that

1346
01:12:55,439 --> 01:13:00,080
Speaker 3: can pass into law, basically guaranteeing a shutdown. In doing so,

1347
01:13:00,439 --> 01:13:03,360
Speaker 3: they're following the orders of former President Donald Trump, even

1348
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:05,760
Speaker 3: though it's clear Republicans will get blamed for it and

1349
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:09,839
Speaker 3: take a political hit. The only person who could benefit, actually,

1350
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:13,360
Speaker 3: besides Joe Biden from this is Donald Trump, who is

1351
01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:16,720
Speaker 3: facing multiple federal indictments that he's been working hard to

1352
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:19,920
Speaker 3: delay past the election. The federal courts can stay open

1353
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:22,200
Speaker 3: for about two weeks thanks to the fees they collect,

1354
01:13:22,240 --> 01:13:25,479
Speaker 3: but after that they'd have to shut down, gumming everything

1355
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:30,160
Speaker 3: up and throwing the court calendar into chaos. Now, Republicans

1356
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 3: spent Tuesday evening jawing at each other. Florida Representative Matt Gates,

1357
01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:37,280
Speaker 3: one of the Republican firebrands leading the shutdown charge, to

1358
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:40,760
Speaker 3: his credit, had the knight's best joke. Let me hand

1359
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:41,360
Speaker 3: the mic to him.

1360
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:46,799
Speaker 11: We are devaluing American money so rapidly that in America

1361
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:52,240
Speaker 11: today you can't even bribe Democrat senators with cash alone.

1362
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:55,719
Speaker 11: You need to bring gold bars to get the job done,

1363
01:13:56,160 --> 01:13:57,799
Speaker 11: just so that the bribes hold value.

1364
01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:00,800
Speaker 3: All right, that was pretty good. He also lashed out

1365
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 3: at Speaker Kevin McCarthy on Twitter, calling him quote pathetic

1366
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:07,760
Speaker 3: for a paid advocacy campaign Gates said had attempted to

1367
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:11,960
Speaker 3: pay Republican influencers to trash talk Gates and his shutdown effort.

1368
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:15,560
Speaker 3: McCarthy issued a cease and desist order to a consulting

1369
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:18,200
Speaker 3: firm which appears to be or is accused of being

1370
01:14:18,200 --> 01:14:20,920
Speaker 3: at least democratic. Emily knows more about this than me,

1371
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 3: and we'll sort this that one out in a minute maybe.

1372
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:27,920
Speaker 3: But the Gates McCarthy drama continued. Here's McCarthy getting asked

1373
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 3: about him.

1374
01:14:28,439 --> 01:14:30,960
Speaker 5: Matt Gates made another thread chair speakership on the House

1375
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:32,519
Speaker 5: floor today. Are you worried at.

1376
01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:33,599
Speaker 8: All that to bring up us here?

1377
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:35,880
Speaker 4: When you make of the threats He's made them for

1378
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:36,479
Speaker 4: quite a while.

1379
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:40,240
Speaker 9: Have you seen Matt and what he said about me

1380
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:43,360
Speaker 9: when we first started this. Look, people have got to

1381
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:47,840
Speaker 9: get over personal differences. I'm focused on America. I think

1382
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 9: that's where America's looking right now as well. He never

1383
01:14:51,160 --> 01:14:52,880
Speaker 9: voted for me to start out with. I don't assume

1384
01:14:52,880 --> 01:14:55,080
Speaker 9: he's changing his position. He said a lot of things

1385
01:14:55,120 --> 01:14:57,080
Speaker 9: and we waded through. The one thing I will always

1386
01:14:57,080 --> 01:14:59,200
Speaker 9: tell you is I'm never going to give up on America.

1387
01:14:59,200 --> 01:15:01,040
Speaker 9: And that's where my focus is going to be. If

1388
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:03,200
Speaker 9: somebody has a personal difference with me, that's fine. They

1389
01:15:03,200 --> 01:15:04,479
Speaker 9: have the right to say it, they have the right

1390
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:06,080
Speaker 9: to do it. Do whatever there is that.

1391
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:08,720
Speaker 12: Distracted this process, though, when he keeps hammering you on this,

1392
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:10,360
Speaker 12: is that a problem? I mean, he comes out every

1393
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:13,160
Speaker 12: day with a little more pushing the involop does well,

1394
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:13,840
Speaker 12: That's why I'm.

1395
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:15,719
Speaker 4: Asking you no if it doesn't.

1396
01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:18,080
Speaker 12: But that is that distracted from this whole issue to

1397
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:18,960
Speaker 12: fund the government address?

1398
01:15:19,120 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 8: No, but it seems to do something for you.

1399
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:23,320
Speaker 3: Now, I don't think people quite have a grasp of

1400
01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:26,720
Speaker 3: how thoroughly absurd the Freedom Caucus position is on a

1401
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:30,680
Speaker 3: government shutdown, and it's not even the entire Freedom Caucus. Now,

1402
01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:32,719
Speaker 3: I know it sounds like I'm speaking from a partisan

1403
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:35,360
Speaker 3: perspective here or saying that I disagree with their approach.

1404
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:37,639
Speaker 3: But what I'm trying to say is that what they're

1405
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:42,200
Speaker 3: doing isn't wrong, it's just completely insane. So to put

1406
01:15:42,200 --> 01:15:46,679
Speaker 3: it simply, Republicans previously agreed to a very specific deal

1407
01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:49,400
Speaker 3: to fund the government. They have not made any serious

1408
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:52,000
Speaker 3: demands or proposed any way forward that would keep the

1409
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:55,360
Speaker 3: government open. Yet they are still pushing for a shutdown.

1410
01:15:55,920 --> 01:15:58,799
Speaker 3: They can't even pass a bill through their own chamber

1411
01:15:58,880 --> 01:16:01,840
Speaker 3: that would fund the government. They're not even proposing big

1412
01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:04,599
Speaker 3: changes to federal spending because they already took that off

1413
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:07,000
Speaker 3: the table during Biden's State of the Union.

1414
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:10,479
Speaker 6: Some Republicans want medicare and solid security sunset.

1415
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:12,160
Speaker 8: I'm not saying it's a majority.

1416
01:16:11,840 --> 01:16:16,640
Speaker 3: Of Let me give you.

1417
01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:22,080
Speaker 6: Anybody who dots it, contact my office. I'll give you

1418
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:25,000
Speaker 6: a copy. I'll give you a copy of the proposal

1419
01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:31,240
Speaker 6: that means Congress doesn't vote. Well, I'm glad to see

1420
01:16:31,280 --> 01:16:33,600
Speaker 6: you now. I tell you I enjoyed conversion.

1421
01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:36,120
Speaker 3: So with Medicare and solid security off the table, that's

1422
01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:39,799
Speaker 3: left Republicans nibbling at the edges. Now, perhaps It seems

1423
01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:42,719
Speaker 3: like too long ago, but this whole thing was already

1424
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:45,880
Speaker 3: worked out. In May, Biden and McCarthy, as you'll recall,

1425
01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:48,719
Speaker 3: sat down to craft a deal to avert a default

1426
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:52,120
Speaker 3: and a global financial crisis. The deal was straightforward, and

1427
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:55,120
Speaker 3: it was announced publicly. The debt ceiling would be lifted

1428
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:58,479
Speaker 3: until January twenty twenty five, so a lame du Congress

1429
01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:02,519
Speaker 3: coincidentally can lift it again. Discretionary and military spending for

1430
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:04,719
Speaker 3: the next fiscal year would be capped at one point

1431
01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:07,439
Speaker 3: five nine trillion dollars, eight hundred and eighty six billion

1432
01:17:07,479 --> 01:17:09,880
Speaker 3: for the war making folks and seven hundred and four

1433
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:12,719
Speaker 3: billion for the rest. So all of this has already

1434
01:17:12,720 --> 01:17:15,519
Speaker 3: been hashed out. As Hank Williams Junior would put it,

1435
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:18,800
Speaker 3: it's all over. But the crying now. The holdouts are

1436
01:17:18,800 --> 01:17:22,680
Speaker 3: calling for budget numbers several hundred billion dollars below what

1437
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:25,559
Speaker 3: was already agreed on, which is fine, that's their right,

1438
01:17:25,800 --> 01:17:28,600
Speaker 3: but it doesn't mean anybody should listen to them. So

1439
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:32,920
Speaker 3: today McCarthy suggested he needs another meeting with Biden, which

1440
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:36,439
Speaker 3: the White House quickly rejected, noting they already cut a deal,

1441
01:17:36,640 --> 01:17:38,960
Speaker 3: and his problem is with Matt Gates and that crew

1442
01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:42,479
Speaker 3: not with the White House now. AOC suggested McCarthy be

1443
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:45,439
Speaker 3: told to quote pound sand, which is actually one of

1444
01:17:45,479 --> 01:17:49,320
Speaker 3: my favorite cliches out there. Meanwhile, these votes are a

1445
01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:52,080
Speaker 3: trap for Republicans because they'll never be good enough for

1446
01:17:52,120 --> 01:17:55,600
Speaker 3: the most ardent conservatives, and they'll include draconian cuts and

1447
01:17:55,720 --> 01:17:59,000
Speaker 3: extreme social policy that will then be used against modern

1448
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:02,679
Speaker 3: Republicans running and Biden districts. Here's how the Washington Post

1449
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:06,960
Speaker 3: framed the latest proposed cuts. Quote, cutting housing subsidies for

1450
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:09,920
Speaker 3: the poor by thirty three percent as soaring rents drive

1451
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:13,479
Speaker 3: a national affordability crisis, forcing more than one million women

1452
01:18:13,520 --> 01:18:16,799
Speaker 3: and children onto the waitlist of a nutritional assistance program

1453
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:20,760
Speaker 3: for poor mothers with young children, reducing federal spending on

1454
01:18:20,840 --> 01:18:23,800
Speaker 3: home heating assistance for low income families by more than

1455
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:29,439
Speaker 3: seventy percent with energy prices high heading into the winter months. Unquote.

1456
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:33,360
Speaker 3: That's not just terrible for people, it's terrible politics. Now,

1457
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:35,600
Speaker 3: once that theater is over, the only option will be

1458
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:39,559
Speaker 3: a normal, clean, bipartisan CR. The Senate voted seventy seven

1459
01:18:39,600 --> 01:18:42,840
Speaker 3: to nineteen to move forward on a CR yesterday evening

1460
01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:45,880
Speaker 3: to keep the government open another forty seven days. But

1461
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:48,519
Speaker 3: they also added some six billion dollars for Ukraine and

1462
01:18:48,560 --> 01:18:52,080
Speaker 3: another six billion dollars for disaster relief, and House Republican

1463
01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:55,360
Speaker 3: holdouts want nothing to do with that Ukraine money. Now

1464
01:18:55,400 --> 01:18:57,880
Speaker 3: here's where McCarthy faces a choice. He can prevent the

1465
01:18:57,920 --> 01:19:00,439
Speaker 3: Senate bill, which has a support of mitchma Connell and

1466
01:19:00,479 --> 01:19:03,519
Speaker 3: a host of Republicans, from coming to the floor. His

1467
01:19:03,640 --> 01:19:05,920
Speaker 3: right wing rebels have said that if he passes it

1468
01:19:06,160 --> 01:19:09,439
Speaker 3: with Democratic votes, they'll depose him, and they might, but

1469
01:19:09,560 --> 01:19:12,120
Speaker 3: A they don't have an alternative who could get two

1470
01:19:12,240 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 3: hundred and eighteen votes, and b Democrats could vote to

1471
01:19:15,439 --> 01:19:19,600
Speaker 3: save him, which would be c absolutely hilarious. So what

1472
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:20,599
Speaker 3: result are we.

1473
01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:22,839
Speaker 4: Going to get here the Ukraine spending?

1474
01:19:25,960 --> 01:19:28,080
Speaker 3: Emily, what's your point today, Well, a.

1475
01:19:28,040 --> 01:19:32,000
Speaker 4: New poll was just released today by American Compass that

1476
01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:34,840
Speaker 4: is a conservative organization working on sort of new right

1477
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:37,400
Speaker 4: realignment issues. You may be familiar with it because we've

1478
01:19:37,439 --> 01:19:40,320
Speaker 4: had the head of American Compass, or In Cass, on

1479
01:19:40,479 --> 01:19:44,040
Speaker 4: the show on Breaking Points and on Counterpoints several times,

1480
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:47,679
Speaker 4: because Orn has really interesting perspective. He was actually recently

1481
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:51,040
Speaker 4: profiled by New York Magazine as quote the Nerd trying

1482
01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:54,800
Speaker 4: to turn the GOP populist, and he has drawn some

1483
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:57,240
Speaker 4: attention because a lot of the policy prescriptions that come

1484
01:19:57,240 --> 01:20:01,920
Speaker 4: out of an American compass are wildly against opposed to

1485
01:20:02,439 --> 01:20:08,400
Speaker 4: Republican orthodoxy on things like unions, on things like private equity, financialization,

1486
01:20:08,720 --> 01:20:11,560
Speaker 4: Wall Street, et cetera, et cetera. And these poll results

1487
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:14,960
Speaker 4: I think are worth the Republicans here in Washington taking

1488
01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:17,639
Speaker 4: a look at and then weighing against what some of

1489
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:21,960
Speaker 4: their benefactors over on Wall Street. Although you know that

1490
01:20:22,040 --> 01:20:24,360
Speaker 4: relationship is strained in many cases. If you're talking to

1491
01:20:24,360 --> 01:20:26,760
Speaker 4: people both on Wall Street and in Republican politics because

1492
01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:30,639
Speaker 4: of cultural issues, this is worth paying attention to. There's

1493
01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:33,719
Speaker 4: a Republican primary happening right now, There's a debate happening tonight.

1494
01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:36,439
Speaker 4: We'll see how well these priorities are captured, both by

1495
01:20:36,479 --> 01:20:40,080
Speaker 4: the candidates and by the moderators. So on tariffs and

1496
01:20:40,280 --> 01:20:43,040
Speaker 4: on Wall Street, you have Republican voters. This is a

1497
01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:45,920
Speaker 4: pull just of Republican voters. It was taken between August

1498
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:50,640
Speaker 4: eleventh and seventeenth. The sample is one thousand people or

1499
01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:53,719
Speaker 4: a thousand Republican voters. It was done by you Gov.

1500
01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:57,559
Speaker 4: This is Republicans who voted in the twenty twenty two election.

1501
01:20:58,560 --> 01:21:02,559
Speaker 4: They were over in favor of tariffs and had a

1502
01:21:02,680 --> 01:21:05,639
Speaker 4: very very negative opinion of Wall Street. Now, the way

1503
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:08,160
Speaker 4: the questions were written, and you can go take a

1504
01:21:08,160 --> 01:21:11,040
Speaker 4: look at the poll yourself, the way the questions are written.

1505
01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:12,679
Speaker 4: I'm not going to read through all of them here.

1506
01:21:13,240 --> 01:21:15,320
Speaker 4: I think it was maybe nudging people in that direction.

1507
01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:17,400
Speaker 4: But you can look at other polls. I mean, Republican

1508
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:20,200
Speaker 4: voters right now have I think it found it finds

1509
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:24,040
Speaker 4: like forty percent support for unions. You can see that

1510
01:21:24,160 --> 01:21:27,519
Speaker 4: in polls throughout the country. There is increasing support for

1511
01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:31,320
Speaker 4: unions nationwide, not just among Republican voters, but favorability among

1512
01:21:31,360 --> 01:21:34,160
Speaker 4: Republican voters is increasing. And part of that is because

1513
01:21:34,200 --> 01:21:36,240
Speaker 4: you have union voters who may have only pulled the

1514
01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:39,920
Speaker 4: lever for Democrats in the past, now interested in Republicans.

1515
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:42,160
Speaker 4: Maybe because as we talked about earlier in the show,

1516
01:21:42,360 --> 01:21:46,160
Speaker 4: they were unhappy with the UAW, they have been unhappy

1517
01:21:46,160 --> 01:21:48,559
Speaker 4: with leadership, or maybe because of cultural issues. I think

1518
01:21:48,600 --> 01:21:52,920
Speaker 4: in many cases that's exactly what it is. But nevertheless,

1519
01:21:53,200 --> 01:21:56,160
Speaker 4: those are the facts. And you have Donald Trump going

1520
01:21:56,200 --> 01:21:59,479
Speaker 4: tonight to talk to Auto workers, non union auto workers,

1521
01:21:59,479 --> 01:22:02,479
Speaker 4: and a non union plant. As we talked earlier in

1522
01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:06,519
Speaker 4: the show, trying to actually drive this wedge because the

1523
01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:10,519
Speaker 4: unions themselves have have looked at the Biden administration's Green

1524
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:13,920
Speaker 4: Agenda policies and said, wait a minute, this isn't actually

1525
01:22:13,960 --> 01:22:16,000
Speaker 4: in line with our agenda. We're giving you lots of money,

1526
01:22:16,040 --> 01:22:18,559
Speaker 4: We're giving you lots of support. Let's talk about this

1527
01:22:18,920 --> 01:22:22,639
Speaker 4: sore all. There's this explosion of priorities in the labor

1528
01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:25,320
Speaker 4: space right now, and things are you know, it's sort

1529
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:27,280
Speaker 4: of the house of cards has been knocked over, and

1530
01:22:27,320 --> 01:22:30,040
Speaker 4: we're seeing where everything is going to land, and Republicans

1531
01:22:30,040 --> 01:22:32,120
Speaker 4: would be wise to pay attention to where their own

1532
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:35,360
Speaker 4: voters seem to want them to land. Now, let's look

1533
01:22:35,360 --> 01:22:37,720
Speaker 4: at other things. We can put figure one up on

1534
01:22:37,840 --> 01:22:41,439
Speaker 4: the screen. This is really really interesting. They asked about

1535
01:22:41,439 --> 01:22:44,439
Speaker 4: top issues for Republican voters. So the question was, which

1536
01:22:44,439 --> 01:22:46,839
Speaker 4: do you think are the most important challenges facing America?

1537
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:49,479
Speaker 4: Please select at least two and up to five. So

1538
01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:52,680
Speaker 4: if you're looking at this screen not listening, I'm going

1539
01:22:52,760 --> 01:22:54,800
Speaker 4: to break this down for listeners right here. What's going

1540
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:57,400
Speaker 4: to jump out at you is that sixty nine percent

1541
01:22:57,560 --> 01:23:01,400
Speaker 4: of respondents picked transgender active. Now again they're picking at

1542
01:23:01,479 --> 01:23:04,120
Speaker 4: least two and potentially up to five, so this means

1543
01:23:04,120 --> 01:23:06,960
Speaker 4: they picked it in a basket of at least two

1544
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:09,280
Speaker 4: to five so among other things, but that was the

1545
01:23:09,320 --> 01:23:11,640
Speaker 4: top one that was selected by the most people, so

1546
01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:14,480
Speaker 4: sixty nine percent. Then it goes down to woke corporations

1547
01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:18,280
Speaker 4: sixty two percent, critical race theory fifty two percent, illegal

1548
01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:23,639
Speaker 4: immigration sixty percent, So that's likely within the margin of error,

1549
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:28,479
Speaker 4: so sixty percent with woke corporations and illegal immigration, Family

1550
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:31,040
Speaker 4: fertility done at thirteen percent, higher education all the way

1551
01:23:31,080 --> 01:23:35,559
Speaker 4: done at eight percent, globalization fifty percent, worker power eleven percent,

1552
01:23:35,640 --> 01:23:39,400
Speaker 4: financialization nine percent. And then what American compass prioritize or

1553
01:23:39,520 --> 01:23:44,080
Speaker 4: categorized as old right priorities, regulation, tax rates, and free trade.

1554
01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:46,880
Speaker 4: Regulation is at twenty eight percent, tax rates are at

1555
01:23:46,920 --> 01:23:50,920
Speaker 4: eighteen percent, and free trade is at ten percent. So

1556
01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:57,360
Speaker 4: those are very generic and broad categories, right, But even

1557
01:23:57,479 --> 01:24:00,720
Speaker 4: using the kind of friendly term to free trade by

1558
01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:04,280
Speaker 4: actually just calling it free trade is only down at

1559
01:24:04,479 --> 01:24:07,880
Speaker 4: ten ten percent of people saying that's among their priorities.

1560
01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:11,040
Speaker 4: That is a different question than whether people support free trade.

1561
01:24:11,280 --> 01:24:13,920
Speaker 4: Of course, whether it's a priority and whether you support

1562
01:24:13,920 --> 01:24:15,880
Speaker 4: it are totally different questions. And I think that's one

1563
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:19,400
Speaker 4: of the biggest questions that Republicans are facing right now.

1564
01:24:19,560 --> 01:24:21,639
Speaker 4: It's not only you know what are are you out

1565
01:24:21,640 --> 01:24:23,599
Speaker 4: there talking about right to work? Or are you out

1566
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:28,120
Speaker 4: there talking about the fact that people in these labor

1567
01:24:28,200 --> 01:24:32,640
Speaker 4: unions are underpaid? Those are right? Which one are you emphasizing?

1568
01:24:32,720 --> 01:24:35,000
Speaker 4: You may believe in right to work, but you may

1569
01:24:35,080 --> 01:24:37,920
Speaker 4: also believe that the workers are underpaid, and you should

1570
01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:41,160
Speaker 4: probably emphasize right now, like Josh Holly did when you

1571
01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:44,040
Speaker 4: went to the picket line, that people deserve higher pay.

1572
01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:47,320
Speaker 4: So that's the question of priorities. Is what's on the table?

1573
01:24:47,400 --> 01:24:50,479
Speaker 4: Here is what's on the table for national Republicans, And

1574
01:24:50,520 --> 01:24:53,160
Speaker 4: I think this poll is actually genuinely a very interesting

1575
01:24:53,320 --> 01:24:57,080
Speaker 4: glimpse into that. And as American Compass puts it, unsurprisingly,

1576
01:24:57,120 --> 01:25:00,200
Speaker 4: the cultural issues most often selected are therefore all also

1577
01:25:00,240 --> 01:25:02,559
Speaker 4: those on which voters want to see if politicians focus

1578
01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:06,960
Speaker 4: most time and attention. They asked respondents to rank where

1579
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:09,439
Speaker 4: they want people. They gave them a hypothetical one hundred

1580
01:25:09,439 --> 01:25:12,040
Speaker 4: points for politicians, and ask them where they would want

1581
01:25:12,080 --> 01:25:14,720
Speaker 4: politicians to spend most of their time and sort of

1582
01:25:14,760 --> 01:25:18,000
Speaker 4: allocate those one hundred points to these different issues. Overall,

1583
01:25:18,080 --> 01:25:20,760
Speaker 4: voters allocated, according to Compass, forty four percent of their

1584
01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:24,000
Speaker 4: points to the cultural challenges, twenty three to consensus challenges,

1585
01:25:24,120 --> 01:25:26,720
Speaker 4: nineteen percent to new right challenges, and fourteen percent to

1586
01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:29,800
Speaker 4: old right challenges. What's interesting there is also that these

1587
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:32,439
Speaker 4: cultural challenges are kind of new right challenges as well,

1588
01:25:32,479 --> 01:25:36,240
Speaker 4: because the RNC back in twenty twelve basically said let's

1589
01:25:36,240 --> 01:25:40,160
Speaker 4: put cultural priorities, immigration, all of that stuff on the

1590
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:42,680
Speaker 4: back burner in order to win new voters. So I

1591
01:25:42,720 --> 01:25:45,679
Speaker 4: think actually you could even fairly classify those cultural challenges

1592
01:25:45,720 --> 01:25:47,760
Speaker 4: as new right challenges. And I'd also just like to

1593
01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:51,840
Speaker 4: emphasize that a huge problem in the Republican Party is

1594
01:25:51,880 --> 01:25:57,120
Speaker 4: not classifying cultural challenges as financial challenges. So when people

1595
01:25:57,120 --> 01:25:59,800
Speaker 4: are saying, for instance, that transgender activism is one of

1596
01:25:59,840 --> 01:26:03,320
Speaker 4: their top priorities, the way Republicans don't think of that,

1597
01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:05,960
Speaker 4: and you could argue that's because of the donor class.

1598
01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:09,559
Speaker 4: You could argue that's because it's the disproportionate influence of

1599
01:26:10,200 --> 01:26:13,599
Speaker 4: what some people see is the old moral majority wing

1600
01:26:13,640 --> 01:26:16,519
Speaker 4: of the conservative movement. But what I think Republicans are

1601
01:26:16,520 --> 01:26:20,160
Speaker 4: wrong not to not to emphasize is that when people

1602
01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:22,479
Speaker 4: are worried about that, a lot of times that's because

1603
01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:25,400
Speaker 4: it is a financial worry for them. It's a financial

1604
01:26:25,439 --> 01:26:28,479
Speaker 4: issue because they disagree with what their public schools are teaching,

1605
01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:31,960
Speaker 4: which in some cases are actually very very extreme, and

1606
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:35,000
Speaker 4: that means they have to go spend time looking for

1607
01:26:35,439 --> 01:26:39,720
Speaker 4: a private school that is expensive. It means that their

1608
01:26:39,760 --> 01:26:42,360
Speaker 4: tax money that they're paying to the public school is

1609
01:26:42,400 --> 01:26:45,519
Speaker 4: not going to their kids' tuition. It's being spent in

1610
01:26:45,560 --> 01:26:47,920
Speaker 4: ways they don't think is benefiting the community. And so

1611
01:26:48,320 --> 01:26:50,639
Speaker 4: that lens is not just like we see these things

1612
01:26:50,640 --> 01:26:54,840
Speaker 4: as sort of mutually exclusive, right, like it's either economic

1613
01:26:55,040 --> 01:26:58,000
Speaker 4: or cultural, when in fact, so often the cultural issues

1614
01:26:58,080 --> 01:27:00,880
Speaker 4: are economic issues and when people We'll look at that

1615
01:27:01,040 --> 01:27:02,920
Speaker 4: chart and maybe we can pop it up on the

1616
01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:05,519
Speaker 4: screaming screen again. This is figure one, and you see

1617
01:27:05,560 --> 01:27:08,200
Speaker 4: that eye popping number of sixty nine percent of people

1618
01:27:08,439 --> 01:27:14,240
Speaker 4: specifically pointing to transgender activism as the most important challenge

1619
01:27:14,280 --> 01:27:16,840
Speaker 4: facing America, one of the most important challenges facing America.

1620
01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:18,360
Speaker 4: And then you also see the same thing with woke

1621
01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:22,040
Speaker 4: corporations critical race theory. I would posit that a lot

1622
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:25,479
Speaker 4: of that is because it creates financial hurdles for people

1623
01:27:25,680 --> 01:27:28,960
Speaker 4: just to live by their own values and values they

1624
01:27:28,960 --> 01:27:32,840
Speaker 4: see as basically consensus values. You know, people shouldn't be

1625
01:27:33,640 --> 01:27:35,720
Speaker 4: you know, the men and women the locker rooms. The

1626
01:27:35,760 --> 01:27:38,479
Speaker 4: locker room issue is difficult. They want to be able

1627
01:27:38,479 --> 01:27:41,360
Speaker 4: to shop at Target without you know, having issues with it.

1628
01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:43,000
Speaker 4: They want to be able to buy their bud light

1629
01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:47,000
Speaker 4: without feeling insulted by the company. And again, those issues

1630
01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:49,720
Speaker 4: may seem small ball to people here in Washington, they

1631
01:27:49,760 --> 01:27:52,320
Speaker 4: may seem like cultural red meat, but I think it

1632
01:27:52,360 --> 01:27:56,759
Speaker 4: also has something serious to do with people's pocketbooks too. Ryan,

1633
01:27:56,840 --> 01:27:58,240
Speaker 4: what did you make of the poll and what do

1634
01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:00,360
Speaker 4: you make of that question of how a lot of

1635
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:03,599
Speaker 4: people in Washington, d c c. The economy, and the

1636
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:07,360
Speaker 4: culture as sort of mutually exclusive realms that are not,

1637
01:28:07,600 --> 01:28:10,400
Speaker 4: you know, in any ways, have that middle vend diagram.

1638
01:28:09,960 --> 01:28:13,120
Speaker 3: Part Yeah, the transgender number.

1639
01:28:13,160 --> 01:28:18,479
Speaker 4: That's all right. So, as we were prepping the show

1640
01:28:18,680 --> 01:28:22,759
Speaker 4: last night, news broke that House Republican is alleging Anthony

1641
01:28:22,760 --> 01:28:25,920
Speaker 4: Fauci secretly went to CIA headquarters to quote influence the

1642
01:28:25,960 --> 01:28:29,760
Speaker 4: COVID nineteen origins investigation. We are going to talk now

1643
01:28:29,800 --> 01:28:32,320
Speaker 4: with Toby Green he's a professor of African history at

1644
01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:36,280
Speaker 4: King's College, London. His latest book, co authored with Thomas Fozzi,

1645
01:28:36,360 --> 01:28:39,559
Speaker 4: is the COVID Consensus. He has been covering this as

1646
01:28:39,560 --> 01:28:42,920
Speaker 4: it relates to Africa, the African continent. Let's put up

1647
01:28:42,920 --> 01:28:46,080
Speaker 4: on the screen a persuasion article that Toby authored recently,

1648
01:28:46,120 --> 01:28:50,320
Speaker 4: which is so fascinating, just a really, really really good read.

1649
01:28:50,360 --> 01:28:53,880
Speaker 4: I highly recommend giving it a look. Toby, thank you

1650
01:28:53,920 --> 01:28:55,120
Speaker 4: so much for joining us today.

1651
01:28:55,960 --> 01:28:58,040
Speaker 8: Thanks very much, Amy, thanks and Ryan, thanks good to

1652
01:28:58,040 --> 01:28:58,360
Speaker 8: be here.

1653
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:02,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you've we've written about the African content on this.

1654
01:29:02,200 --> 01:29:06,040
Speaker 4: You've written about Niger in recent news about the coup there.

1655
01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:08,360
Speaker 4: I want to start with the Persuasion article because I

1656
01:29:08,360 --> 01:29:12,000
Speaker 4: feel like you encapsulate a broad sort of critique of

1657
01:29:12,160 --> 01:29:16,519
Speaker 4: the West as it has affected seriously had had serious

1658
01:29:16,520 --> 01:29:20,200
Speaker 4: consequences for the African continent throughout the Western response to

1659
01:29:20,320 --> 01:29:22,640
Speaker 4: COVID nineteen. Could you tell us just a little bit

1660
01:29:22,720 --> 01:29:27,599
Speaker 4: about what you're reporting in the Persuasion article and how

1661
01:29:27,600 --> 01:29:29,120
Speaker 4: these things have affected Africa.

1662
01:29:30,200 --> 01:29:31,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, thanks very much for the question. Emily.

1663
01:29:31,840 --> 01:29:35,240
Speaker 13: Well, I mean, in the Persuasion article, I'm documenting what

1664
01:29:35,280 --> 01:29:38,320
Speaker 13: has happened effectively in terms of the pandemic response on

1665
01:29:38,360 --> 01:29:39,880
Speaker 13: the African continent.

1666
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:41,200
Speaker 8: That and we need to go.

1667
01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:44,040
Speaker 13: Back a little bit, back to Thebola epidemic, which many

1668
01:29:44,040 --> 01:29:46,960
Speaker 13: of your listeners and viewers will know about twenty fourteen

1669
01:29:46,960 --> 01:29:52,440
Speaker 13: twenty fifteen. At that time, short lockdowns were trialed in Freetown,

1670
01:29:52,479 --> 01:29:55,880
Speaker 13: in Sierra Leone and in Monrovian Liberia. And at the

1671
01:29:55,920 --> 01:30:00,479
Speaker 13: time medsasal fontie A Doctors Without Borders said really warned

1672
01:30:00,479 --> 01:30:02,320
Speaker 13: against this, that it would be a bad idea. Subsequent

1673
01:30:02,360 --> 01:30:06,879
Speaker 13: academic research confirmed that it had been counterproductive. So already

1674
01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:10,680
Speaker 13: prior to COVID nineteen, Meta Medical, the world medical establishment,

1675
01:30:10,720 --> 01:30:12,920
Speaker 13: you know, was aware of the fact that in a

1676
01:30:12,960 --> 01:30:15,840
Speaker 13: situation on the African continent, where as the international labor

1677
01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:19,000
Speaker 13: organizations had eighty five percent of workers depend on on

1678
01:30:19,040 --> 01:30:25,880
Speaker 13: the informal market, lockdown's simply don't work. In fact, and

1679
01:30:25,920 --> 01:30:27,560
Speaker 13: in fact, I had a friend in Nigeria, Clican in

1680
01:30:27,600 --> 01:30:28,960
Speaker 13: Nigeria who later told me, you know, this is a

1681
01:30:29,040 --> 01:30:31,440
Speaker 13: policy which could work in our context for three days.

1682
01:30:32,960 --> 01:30:36,960
Speaker 13: And so what the article does is document the history

1683
01:30:36,960 --> 01:30:39,920
Speaker 13: of how it was already known that this was a

1684
01:30:40,120 --> 01:30:42,280
Speaker 13: project policy which didn't work in the context of the

1685
01:30:42,320 --> 01:30:43,519
Speaker 13: informal labor market.

1686
01:30:43,760 --> 01:30:45,360
Speaker 8: Already by March.

1687
01:30:45,160 --> 01:30:47,960
Speaker 13: Twenty twenty, scientists were saying, well, actually, you know, Africa

1688
01:30:48,000 --> 01:30:50,720
Speaker 13: has a much lower median age. It was in fact

1689
01:30:50,880 --> 01:30:53,960
Speaker 13: under twenty recognized by the UN in twenty nineteen, and

1690
01:30:54,040 --> 01:30:56,360
Speaker 13: already suggesting it would have that COVID might have a

1691
01:30:56,360 --> 01:31:00,720
Speaker 13: different outcome, questioning whether or not this were there for

1692
01:31:00,800 --> 01:31:03,800
Speaker 13: appropriate policies and how social distancing could possibly work in

1693
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:07,280
Speaker 13: a context where, you know, informal settlements people live in

1694
01:31:07,400 --> 01:31:12,960
Speaker 13: very overcrowded conditions. And yet the WHO recommended in its

1695
01:31:12,960 --> 01:31:16,400
Speaker 13: February twenty fifth, twenty twenty report that every country when

1696
01:31:16,520 --> 01:31:19,519
Speaker 13: U cases were found should follow non pharmaceutical interventions, should

1697
01:31:19,560 --> 01:31:25,679
Speaker 13: follow policies of restriction, isolation, quarantine, and never really pushed

1698
01:31:25,760 --> 01:31:27,479
Speaker 13: back on the fact that when this was pushed out

1699
01:31:27,479 --> 01:31:30,360
Speaker 13: across the African continent, this was going to have catastrophic consequences.

1700
01:31:30,400 --> 01:31:33,880
Speaker 13: So the article summarizes all of that and looks at

1701
01:31:33,400 --> 01:31:36,000
Speaker 13: the long term consequences, which is, you know, what people

1702
01:31:36,080 --> 01:31:38,320
Speaker 13: talk about is almost a decade of austerity to come

1703
01:31:38,360 --> 01:31:40,280
Speaker 13: on the continent, which is going to be catastrophic for

1704
01:31:40,320 --> 01:31:41,360
Speaker 13: future health outcomes.

1705
01:31:41,720 --> 01:31:44,479
Speaker 3: And before we unpack some of those consequences. I just

1706
01:31:44,479 --> 01:31:47,559
Speaker 3: want to linger on the who here. So how does

1707
01:31:47,600 --> 01:31:51,160
Speaker 3: it work in practice? So who says, all right, you've

1708
01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:55,400
Speaker 3: got cases, here's the protocol you are to follow. Who

1709
01:31:55,479 --> 01:31:58,559
Speaker 3: says a lot of things? Why did it end up

1710
01:31:58,600 --> 01:32:01,400
Speaker 3: getting implemented and what what was the kind of discipline

1711
01:32:01,439 --> 01:32:05,320
Speaker 3: mechanism that led to it or were their interest within

1712
01:32:05,560 --> 01:32:10,520
Speaker 3: those particular countries that wanted to see lockdowns implemented?

1713
01:32:10,720 --> 01:32:13,360
Speaker 4: By the way, and this is who leadership? The first

1714
01:32:13,439 --> 01:32:16,760
Speaker 4: African leadership Doctor tedros is Ethiopian at the time of

1715
01:32:17,080 --> 01:32:20,519
Speaker 4: both the Bowler and into the COVID pandemic.

1716
01:32:21,520 --> 01:32:23,240
Speaker 13: He wasn't a leader at the time of a bout it,

1717
01:32:23,280 --> 01:32:25,760
Speaker 13: but yes, certainly was in the COVID nineteen pandemic. Yeah,

1718
01:32:25,760 --> 01:32:27,280
Speaker 13: I mean this is a very complicated question. It's a

1719
01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:30,040
Speaker 13: really good question, Ryan, So thank you for that. There

1720
01:32:30,040 --> 01:32:32,160
Speaker 13: are lots of complicated factors at play here.

1721
01:32:32,320 --> 01:32:32,519
Speaker 8: You know.

1722
01:32:32,600 --> 01:32:36,519
Speaker 13: On the one hand, I interviewed people already colleagues in Ghana,

1723
01:32:36,560 --> 01:32:39,040
Speaker 13: for example, and at the.

1724
01:32:39,040 --> 01:32:41,240
Speaker 8: Time I was talking to a lot of people daily

1725
01:32:41,280 --> 01:32:41,799
Speaker 8: on the continent.

1726
01:32:41,840 --> 01:32:43,880
Speaker 13: You know, I've spent a lot of my last twenty

1727
01:32:44,000 --> 01:32:46,200
Speaker 13: years in and out of many different countries on the

1728
01:32:46,240 --> 01:32:49,559
Speaker 13: continent and people was people did, you know to start with,

1729
01:32:49,880 --> 01:32:51,960
Speaker 13: you know, worry about what the consequences might be. So

1730
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:53,880
Speaker 13: I think there was an initial buying that you know,

1731
01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:58,160
Speaker 13: this was a serious a serious virus, and that's one

1732
01:32:58,240 --> 01:32:59,479
Speaker 13: of the factors that has to be played.

1733
01:32:59,479 --> 01:33:01,000
Speaker 8: But on the point of view of you know, why

1734
01:33:01,080 --> 01:33:01,719
Speaker 8: then when.

1735
01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:05,679
Speaker 13: It became clear pretty pretty soon that consequences were catastrophic.

1736
01:33:05,720 --> 01:33:08,920
Speaker 13: I mean, the UNDP on March the thirty first, twenty

1737
01:33:09,000 --> 01:33:11,880
Speaker 13: twenty SEU to report saying that half of the jobs

1738
01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:13,880
Speaker 13: on the African continent could be lost, I mean half

1739
01:33:13,920 --> 01:33:15,960
Speaker 13: of the jobs. I mean, it's quite incredible that at

1740
01:33:15,960 --> 01:33:19,920
Speaker 13: that point senior figures in global health and also in

1741
01:33:19,960 --> 01:33:22,840
Speaker 13: global you know, in global leadership didn't step back and

1742
01:33:22,880 --> 01:33:24,719
Speaker 13: they go, hang on, is this really a sensible policy

1743
01:33:24,720 --> 01:33:30,519
Speaker 13: to consume? But so when when that happened, that when

1744
01:33:30,560 --> 01:33:32,880
Speaker 13: it became clear that the consequences were what they might be.

1745
01:33:32,920 --> 01:33:34,639
Speaker 13: At the same time that well, you know what, having

1746
01:33:34,680 --> 01:33:36,760
Speaker 13: interviewed a number of people around the content, you know,

1747
01:33:36,800 --> 01:33:39,000
Speaker 13: there was a lot of pressure from doubt, but not

1748
01:33:39,000 --> 01:33:42,080
Speaker 13: only from WH. Who's subsidiary. So example, there's a WHO

1749
01:33:42,120 --> 01:33:45,559
Speaker 13: subsidary in West Africa, you know, and and a lot

1750
01:33:45,600 --> 01:33:51,480
Speaker 13: of core health funding is tied to global health programs

1751
01:33:51,520 --> 01:33:54,160
Speaker 13: from the WHO and other partners. So it's actually quite

1752
01:33:54,240 --> 01:33:56,840
Speaker 13: hard for ministers of health turn around and say, well,

1753
01:33:56,880 --> 01:33:58,960
Speaker 13: you know, you're recommending that we should do that, but.

1754
01:34:00,600 --> 01:34:02,720
Speaker 8: We're going to turn around and not do that.

1755
01:34:02,760 --> 01:34:05,879
Speaker 13: So, in fact, in an article Chuck alfored quite recently

1756
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:10,200
Speaker 13: with a senior public administrator from the GAMBIAT, he described how,

1757
01:34:10,280 --> 01:34:15,000
Speaker 13: in fact, you know, there were weekly demands from embassies,

1758
01:34:15,960 --> 01:34:19,960
Speaker 13: Western embassies and partners like the like the World Bank

1759
01:34:20,080 --> 01:34:24,000
Speaker 13: IMF for situation reports. They were getting phone calls saying, well,

1760
01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:26,080
Speaker 13: we hear people aren't social distancing. We hear there's not

1761
01:34:26,200 --> 01:34:27,240
Speaker 13: enough mass compliance.

1762
01:34:27,880 --> 01:34:28,000
Speaker 11: Uh.

1763
01:34:28,479 --> 01:34:31,040
Speaker 13: And he described that, and this colleague of mine has

1764
01:34:31,080 --> 01:34:33,120
Speaker 13: some cca later described that in a subsequent interview. So

1765
01:34:33,120 --> 01:34:35,760
Speaker 13: we know that there was lots of informal we could

1766
01:34:35,800 --> 01:34:37,960
Speaker 13: you could describe that as informal pressure. But you know,

1767
01:34:38,200 --> 01:34:41,240
Speaker 13: when you think about all of the pressures that were

1768
01:34:41,240 --> 01:34:43,479
Speaker 13: there and the way in which global governance works and

1769
01:34:43,520 --> 01:34:47,760
Speaker 13: finance works, is pretty hard for ministries to turn around

1770
01:34:47,760 --> 01:34:50,880
Speaker 13: say we're not doing that, particularly since also, of course,

1771
01:34:50,920 --> 01:34:54,240
Speaker 13: the other major partner, economic trade partner in Africa is China,

1772
01:34:54,680 --> 01:34:56,679
Speaker 13: and of course this was also a policy which which

1773
01:34:56,720 --> 01:34:58,120
Speaker 13: took shape first of all in China.

1774
01:34:58,680 --> 01:35:01,679
Speaker 4: That actually reminds me of some of the reporting that

1775
01:35:02,240 --> 01:35:05,320
Speaker 4: Ryan and others have done on a Bola and a

1776
01:35:05,360 --> 01:35:08,280
Speaker 4: Bola outbreak. And you think you a Tetris was definitely

1777
01:35:08,280 --> 01:35:10,839
Speaker 4: not the head of the who doing the bowla outbreak,

1778
01:35:10,840 --> 01:35:14,439
Speaker 4: but he had some oversight of their response to the

1779
01:35:14,479 --> 01:35:18,200
Speaker 4: Bole outbreak. And it's all of these strings, these Western

1780
01:35:18,240 --> 01:35:23,479
Speaker 4: strings attached to what happens in Africa that create an

1781
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:27,840
Speaker 4: incentive system that seems just like it's it's very difficult

1782
01:35:28,320 --> 01:35:30,760
Speaker 4: for governments and for people to break through, and it

1783
01:35:30,760 --> 01:35:34,559
Speaker 4: becomes a laboratory basically for the West. And I wanted

1784
01:35:34,560 --> 01:35:37,840
Speaker 4: to ask Tobe how this sort of what the economic

1785
01:35:38,040 --> 01:35:42,559
Speaker 4: outlook and like what sort of concretely can we look

1786
01:35:42,600 --> 01:35:46,000
Speaker 4: at in different African countries right now and say this

1787
01:35:46,040 --> 01:35:51,919
Speaker 4: is downstream of a sort of foolish Western COVID response.

1788
01:35:51,960 --> 01:35:54,280
Speaker 4: You wrote in the New State Statesman. We can put

1789
01:35:54,280 --> 01:35:56,120
Speaker 4: this is the third element up. This is about the

1790
01:35:56,160 --> 01:35:59,599
Speaker 4: coup and niche air. You've you've covered this, You've written

1791
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:01,680
Speaker 4: about the Can you walk us through a little bit

1792
01:36:01,720 --> 01:36:03,200
Speaker 4: of what it looks like on the ground in some

1793
01:36:03,240 --> 01:36:04,240
Speaker 4: of these countries right now.

1794
01:36:04,360 --> 01:36:05,880
Speaker 13: Yeah, I mean, I mean I did you know, I've

1795
01:36:05,920 --> 01:36:09,200
Speaker 13: recently been in the gambur in Senegal, and you know,

1796
01:36:09,240 --> 01:36:11,160
Speaker 13: I mean, just to give her sense of it, you know,

1797
01:36:11,160 --> 01:36:13,439
Speaker 13: And this might sound strange to an American you know,

1798
01:36:13,439 --> 01:36:16,080
Speaker 13: American audience, but you know, I didn't meet a single person,

1799
01:36:16,240 --> 01:36:20,240
Speaker 13: I literally not a single person, you know, including senior

1800
01:36:20,280 --> 01:36:23,960
Speaker 13: government you know, MP's senior administrators who did not think

1801
01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:28,200
Speaker 13: that the entire COVID response not only had been a catastrophe,

1802
01:36:28,280 --> 01:36:30,800
Speaker 13: you know also I mean, I don't want to use

1803
01:36:30,800 --> 01:36:32,400
Speaker 13: the word fraud, but you know they literally did not

1804
01:36:32,720 --> 01:36:35,920
Speaker 13: know hardly anybody who you know, fallen ill from COVID.

1805
01:36:35,920 --> 01:36:37,800
Speaker 13: They and you know, they would talk that people were

1806
01:36:37,800 --> 01:36:40,439
Speaker 13: claiming that they had gone to hospital with malaria symptoms

1807
01:36:40,439 --> 01:36:42,439
Speaker 13: they were diagnosed with COVID. I mean, this is so,

1808
01:36:42,600 --> 01:36:45,240
Speaker 13: whether or not this is true, what's interesting, I think

1809
01:36:45,439 --> 01:36:48,880
Speaker 13: is how if this is now being perceived, it's now

1810
01:36:48,920 --> 01:36:53,120
Speaker 13: being perceived definitely as you know, a real neo colonial

1811
01:36:53,160 --> 01:36:56,160
Speaker 13: imposition which had a catastrophic impacts. And I'll give you

1812
01:36:56,200 --> 01:36:57,639
Speaker 13: an example. You know, I've got a very old friend

1813
01:36:57,720 --> 01:37:00,600
Speaker 13: rather than for thirty years in Senegal to COVID. He

1814
01:37:00,640 --> 01:37:03,559
Speaker 13: had a business on a motor He had his own motorbike.

1815
01:37:03,560 --> 01:37:05,040
Speaker 13: He would go down to the coast, he would buy

1816
01:37:05,080 --> 01:37:06,400
Speaker 13: fish and he would bring it, you know, a couple

1817
01:37:06,439 --> 01:37:08,160
Speaker 13: of hours in land and he would sell it at market.

1818
01:37:08,160 --> 01:37:10,840
Speaker 13: And that business was destroyed and collapsed in twenty twenty

1819
01:37:10,880 --> 01:37:13,240
Speaker 13: because they were people weren't have to travel. And then

1820
01:37:13,640 --> 01:37:15,680
Speaker 13: what happened was people had to spend any money that

1821
01:37:15,760 --> 01:37:18,080
Speaker 13: they had in order to be able to get food

1822
01:37:18,120 --> 01:37:20,160
Speaker 13: to eat. And still now when I met him a

1823
01:37:20,200 --> 01:37:22,360
Speaker 13: month or so ago, he you know, he said he

1824
01:37:22,400 --> 01:37:24,479
Speaker 13: can't start up that business again because people literally have

1825
01:37:24,560 --> 01:37:26,479
Speaker 13: not got any money to buy anything other than the

1826
01:37:26,520 --> 01:37:28,080
Speaker 13: basic sack of rice, oil.

1827
01:37:28,360 --> 01:37:30,400
Speaker 8: And of course the other factor there is inflation.

1828
01:37:31,080 --> 01:37:33,479
Speaker 13: You know, obviously the whole world has been experiencing inflation,

1829
01:37:33,600 --> 01:37:36,240
Speaker 13: but it has been very severe in Africa, and in fact,

1830
01:37:36,280 --> 01:37:38,920
Speaker 13: some of the interviews I've done, which we discussed it

1831
01:37:38,960 --> 01:37:41,400
Speaker 13: in the COVID Consensus, with people say, you know this

1832
01:37:41,439 --> 01:37:44,080
Speaker 13: started in twenty twenty one. Because what happened I mean,

1833
01:37:44,120 --> 01:37:46,320
Speaker 13: and I wrote about this with Hassum CS in the

1834
01:37:46,439 --> 01:37:49,679
Speaker 13: article a couple of months ago. What happened was that,

1835
01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:52,960
Speaker 13: for example, in the Gambia, effectively almost our whole harvest

1836
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:55,360
Speaker 13: was lost. The transport shutdown came at a time when

1837
01:37:55,360 --> 01:37:58,080
Speaker 13: people would go and take seeds from the capital city

1838
01:37:58,120 --> 01:38:00,559
Speaker 13: to villages. They couldn't do that, and those who did

1839
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:03,320
Speaker 13: manage to plant, because of social distancing protocols, didn't have

1840
01:38:03,400 --> 01:38:05,840
Speaker 13: enough people in the fields to harvest. I was told

1841
01:38:05,880 --> 01:38:08,559
Speaker 13: of colleague in Angola that, you know, people simply weren't

1842
01:38:08,560 --> 01:38:10,479
Speaker 13: allowed to go to the fields and so they lost

1843
01:38:10,479 --> 01:38:14,160
Speaker 13: to harvest. Similar stories from Ghana, and that caused effectively

1844
01:38:14,200 --> 01:38:17,320
Speaker 13: a huge increase in prices already by twenty twenty one.

1845
01:38:17,479 --> 01:38:19,679
Speaker 13: So you have all those factors coming together and people

1846
01:38:19,680 --> 01:38:21,439
Speaker 13: are angry, and you know, and that's what I wrote

1847
01:38:21,439 --> 01:38:23,720
Speaker 13: about in the article in the year you know that

1848
01:38:24,439 --> 01:38:27,320
Speaker 13: what has happened is you know, not only I think,

1849
01:38:27,360 --> 01:38:29,679
Speaker 13: as I mentioned in the Persuasion article. You know, prior

1850
01:38:29,680 --> 01:38:32,200
Speaker 13: to twenty twenty, people were talking about Africa rising. You know,

1851
01:38:32,280 --> 01:38:34,920
Speaker 13: this was in many ways a really hopeful, autimistic time

1852
01:38:34,960 --> 01:38:37,599
Speaker 13: with the continent. The economy had boomed throughout the twenty tens.

1853
01:38:38,240 --> 01:38:40,280
Speaker 13: Now the same journals are talking about, you know, a

1854
01:38:40,320 --> 01:38:43,000
Speaker 13: decade of austerity, and the evidence is quite clear that

1855
01:38:43,000 --> 01:38:44,400
Speaker 13: they started in twenty twenty one.

1856
01:38:44,560 --> 01:38:47,559
Speaker 8: You know it's and it's linked to what happened in

1857
01:38:47,560 --> 01:38:49,240
Speaker 8: twenty twenty and it's so fat.

1858
01:38:49,800 --> 01:38:52,880
Speaker 3: Toby, thanks so much for joining us and for your

1859
01:38:53,400 --> 01:38:55,240
Speaker 3: sharing your reporting here. Really appreciate it.

1860
01:38:56,880 --> 01:38:58,160
Speaker 8: Thank you, Ryan, Thank you Emily.

1861
01:38:58,560 --> 01:39:01,280
Speaker 4: Of course Toby's book is called the COVID Consensus. He

1862
01:39:01,360 --> 01:39:03,720
Speaker 4: just mentioned it, so you can check that out. That

1863
01:39:03,800 --> 01:39:07,120
Speaker 4: does it for us today on Counterpoints. We so appreciate

1864
01:39:07,240 --> 01:39:10,760
Speaker 4: everybody tuning into the show. Make sure to like subscribe.

1865
01:39:10,840 --> 01:39:12,719
Speaker 4: If you're a premium member, you get the whole show

1866
01:39:12,800 --> 01:39:16,400
Speaker 4: early to your inbox, full video, no commercial breaks. We

1867
01:39:16,439 --> 01:39:17,040
Speaker 4: appreciate it.

1868
01:39:17,080 --> 01:39:19,920
Speaker 3: And we will be here tomorrow morning with Cryslin Sagar

1869
01:39:20,320 --> 01:39:23,200
Speaker 3: with a kind of debate coverage special and maybe a

1870
01:39:23,200 --> 01:39:27,080
Speaker 3: little Trump speech to non union workers special as well.

1871
01:39:27,200 --> 01:39:30,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, well we'll have it all for you tomorrow morning.

1872
01:39:30,880 --> 01:39:32,920
Speaker 4: We'll be back so you don't have to wait another

1873
01:39:32,960 --> 01:39:37,240
Speaker 4: week to get your macro dose. Ryan Grim, see you

1874
01:39:37,240 --> 01:39:37,919
Speaker 4: guys tomorrow