Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
Speaker 2: Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Appocarplay and then
Speaker 2: Rouno with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever
Speaker 2: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2: You're on Bloomberg TV and Radio.
Speaker 3: I'm Joe Matthew. Indeed, Kaylee Lines is back with us
Speaker 3: today as we usher in the start of an important
Speaker 3: summit this week in Washington, the seventy fifth anniversary of
Speaker 3: NATO and Kayleie, we've been talking about this so much
Speaker 3: through the guise of Joe Biden's well being. He's going
Speaker 3: to be speaking later today. We'll bring you that address,
Speaker 3: of course, around five o'clock at least some of his words,
Speaker 3: to see how he's feeling and how he's projecting himself.
Speaker 3: But of course this is a critical time for the Alliance,
Speaker 3: Kaylee to be meeting, not only because of Ukraine, but
Speaker 3: uncertainty throughout Europe following elections over the past week or
Speaker 3: so here and a lot of questions about the future
Speaker 3: of politics here in the US.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, these countries leaders may also be bracing for the
Speaker 4: potential return of Donald Trump, questioning what that might mean
Speaker 4: for this alliance that now, of course is much larger
Speaker 4: as it celebrates at seventy fifth anniversary, with the addition
Speaker 4: of Sweden and Finland, of course that we've seen under
Speaker 4: this administration. But you're absolutely right, Joe, we do expect
Speaker 4: that Ukraine will feature highly as well as concerns about
Speaker 4: what Russia could do next if it indeed is victorious
Speaker 4: in Ukraine. And that's a concern that especially the Baltic
Speaker 4: states we know very much have and we want to
Speaker 4: bring in now a foreign minister from one of those states, Latvia,
Speaker 4: the country Biba Breiza is with us now here in
Speaker 4: our Washington, d C studio. She is indeed the Latvia
Speaker 4: and foreign minister minister. Thank you so much for being
Speaker 4: with us here on Bloomberg TV.
Speaker 5: Thanks for having me and radio.
Speaker 4: Welcome to Washington. I'm sure it's going to be a
Speaker 4: busy several days for you and very hot ones. Yes,
Speaker 4: what are you hoping to leave here with? What is
Speaker 4: your outcome that you were looking for from this?
Speaker 6: All? Right?
Speaker 5: So, naitoy' is a defense alliance has a particular meaning.
Speaker 5: It's political military alliance. The only of its kind. So
Speaker 5: the primary purpose of that is of course the defense
Speaker 5: of allies. So there is a lot of change that
Speaker 5: is happening with Russia's attack on Ukraine. So we have
Speaker 5: moved from out of area operations where we had choice
Speaker 5: of sending people to Iraq you know, for six months,
Speaker 5: and then rotating them again to a collective defense. Back
Speaker 5: to collective defense what we had in the Cold War times,
Speaker 5: with General Eisenhower establishing the basis of that after the
Speaker 5: Second World War. So defending allies, having troops in place,
Speaker 5: having capabilities, having command control in place, ability to reinforce,
Speaker 5: and so on and so forth. So that's that package is
Speaker 5: the most important outcome. It goes hand in hand with
Speaker 5: support Ukraine obviously because what Russia is doing in Ukraine
Speaker 5: is something that is considered the threat to all allies.
Speaker 5: So supporting Ukraine and its liberation fight is crucially important.
Speaker 5: Fighting for freedom, that's what we all are there for.
Speaker 5: We all want freedom, right, So Ukraine, winn Ukraine is
Speaker 5: very important for all of us. And then of course
Speaker 5: working with a wider range of partners from Indo Pacific
Speaker 5: for example, they will be here for the summit to
Speaker 5: address other challenges and threats, such as you know, challenges
Speaker 5: from China, constant cyber attacks. You will have seen the
Speaker 5: trying to change the balance of power globally, So that
Speaker 5: is also important for all of us because it's not
Speaker 5: just about Russia's conventional war. It's also about the challenges
Speaker 5: to all of us to who we are and how
Speaker 5: we function as democracies.
Speaker 3: There's a conversation of course in Europe right now about
Speaker 3: levels of commitment when it comes to Ukraine, but also
Speaker 3: NATO more broadly as the alliance. Because of your border,
Speaker 3: you're on the front lines of protecting democracy as a
Speaker 3: NATO member, do you worry about a fissure in European
Speaker 3: politics having seen elections recently when it comes to this.
Speaker 5: Issue, well, NATO has had a borderline with with Russia
Speaker 5: since it was established in Norway and other places. So
Speaker 5: now it's longer. Now it's Finland joined. The Baltic States
Speaker 5: have been born in Russia since we were established one
Speaker 5: hundred and five years one hundred and six years ago,
Speaker 5: and since we joined NATO twenty years ago. So we
Speaker 5: are all peaceful countries, but we want to continue being
Speaker 5: peaceful countries. So that's why we established that defense capability
Speaker 5: together with the US, and US is an essential member
Speaker 5: of that alliance, so that link is crucially important. So
Speaker 5: of course we are interested in successful US. Of course
Speaker 5: we have a share in US is concerned, whether it's China,
Speaker 5: whether it's other challenges that we face together. So that's
Speaker 5: that's why we are together here in Washington as native
Speaker 5: alliance to address any threat to any LA.
Speaker 4: Well, it's you though, among the allies that potentially are
Speaker 4: most immediately affected. If Russia were to decide to move
Speaker 4: naant Ukraine Nate, but that exactly Article five. Theoretically, at
Speaker 4: any the other Baltic country, any country in the alliance
Speaker 4: were to be attacked, theoretically that would trigger all of
Speaker 4: the NATO forces coming together in a defensive way. How
Speaker 4: should we think about what that attack could actually mean?
Speaker 4: Knowing we've seen hybrid attacks, cyber attacks, for example, Russia
Speaker 4: has been conducting in the region, turning to China as well,
Speaker 4: moving buoys in the river that separates Estonia in Russia,
Speaker 4: how should we be quantifying what an Article five triggering
Speaker 4: event actually might be. Could it be something like that?
Speaker 5: So the important part is actually to have that situational
Speaker 5: awareness which means to have the intelligence reconnaissance capabilities to
Speaker 5: understand the threats. That means both on the Russian side,
Speaker 5: but also globally. It's about terrorists, it's about cyber attacks
Speaker 5: from wherever they can come. We have called out also
Speaker 5: Iran on cyber attacks. So it's important to have that
Speaker 5: situational awareness to be ready because once you know what
Speaker 5: is happening, it's easier to respond. And this is where
Speaker 5: NATO together we have invested so much. That's why we
Speaker 5: have that defense growth in terms of defense spenning. That's
Speaker 5: why we have additional defense capabilities, and that means expensive technology, satellites,
Speaker 5: that means, you know, reconnaissance capability is that means drawing
Speaker 5: all the data together, working with the private sector, giving
Speaker 5: back to the private sector, private sector contributing to that
Speaker 5: open source awareness. So it's a pretty complicated algorithm. But
Speaker 5: all together as the alliance, it's not about the Baltic States,
Speaker 5: it's about whole of NATO because we are in it together.
Speaker 5: And once once we have that situation awareness, once we
Speaker 5: know what is threatening us or not, we are able
Speaker 5: to respond as necessary. So for now, there is no
Speaker 5: direct military threat to any of the allies because we
Speaker 5: have invested so much work to make sure that we
Speaker 5: have that deterrance capability and the terrence is what we
Speaker 5: are seeking.
Speaker 3: Well, Minister, I know you're here to engage with the
Speaker 3: administration and your allies. You're at the convention center just
Speaker 3: a couple of blocks away from where we are, and
Speaker 3: you're not here to talk about Donald Trump. But there
Speaker 3: is a debate about redefining Article five right now if
Speaker 3: he were re elected, and he's called into question whether
Speaker 3: certain members would qualify for Article five protection based on
Speaker 3: their contributions. Are you concerned about or do you expect
Speaker 3: Article five to be redefined if Donald Trump is realized.
Speaker 5: No, we don't expect that. We worked very well with
Speaker 5: the Trump administration before, and you know it's we work
Speaker 5: with all the administrations and don't recommend to any politician
Speaker 5: to comment on another countries internal politics. But whoever is elected,
Speaker 5: we will work with him, her, them. And it's important
Speaker 5: for America to know that it has friends and allies.
Speaker 5: I mean for all the countries, it's important to have
Speaker 5: those friends and allies, and there's no closer friend or
Speaker 5: allies at any country in Natal four for America, and
Speaker 5: I think That's why. Also when President Trump was in
Speaker 5: power the previous time, it was very clear that they
Speaker 5: were all types of room that he would withdraw America
Speaker 5: from NATO and so on and so forth. But it
Speaker 5: never happened because at the end, we are better stronger together.
Speaker 5: And as I said, currently, the defense spending is that
Speaker 5: the rise as never before. Twenty three allies are about
Speaker 5: two percent of GDP on defense and it will be rising.
Speaker 4: Speaking of spending money on defense or other countries defense,
Speaker 4: we don't only have questions about what the selection means
Speaker 4: for potentially US membership in NATO, but also the amount
Speaker 4: of money the US is going to be willing to
Speaker 4: continue to provide to Ukraine. It was very difficult for
Speaker 4: Congress to get the aid passed earlier this year. Across
Speaker 4: the finish line, if the US kid no longer provides
Speaker 4: that aid to Ukraine, what would that mean for other
Speaker 4: NATO countries? If Ukraine is less in its ability to
Speaker 4: defend against the Russian invasion as a result.
Speaker 5: Let me be straightforward, I think that it's in the
Speaker 5: US interest to provide the t AID because most of
Speaker 5: the money, almost all of it goes back into US economy.
Speaker 5: In the U s defense industry sort of increasing its
Speaker 5: own capabilities research capabilities. Also in terms of lessons learned
Speaker 5: from the war in Ukraine, it's both the war of
Speaker 5: the past, but also a war of the future from
Speaker 5: what we are seeing with the drones, with targeting through
Speaker 5: mobile phones, with applications used for identifying the targets, and
Speaker 5: so on and so forth. So I think all our
Speaker 5: military and defense industries are really working closely with Ukrainians
Speaker 5: to learn and prepare for those future wars that we
Speaker 5: might be faced with wherever we don't know, We don't
Speaker 5: know where it can arise. So from that perspective, US
Speaker 5: aid to Ukraine is a help to the US itself
Speaker 5: to prepare for the future.
Speaker 3: Do you expect to leave the summit with a clearer
Speaker 3: path for Ukrainian membership listen?
Speaker 5: Ukraine is one of the strongest fighting forces in Europe today.
Speaker 5: I mean it's a country. It's the hour that has shown,
Speaker 5: with the biggest army in Europe that it's able to
Speaker 5: defend itself. Yes, with the Allies help obviously, and that
Speaker 5: will make NATO stronger, it will make America stronger. Once
Speaker 5: Ukraine joints.
Speaker 3: Should there be a timeline.
Speaker 5: Possibly again, you know, it depends on the success on
Speaker 5: the battlefield. The sooner Ukraine is victorious and we can
Speaker 5: reach a deal on the end of the war. As
Speaker 5: sooner we can sort of finish financing the war, but
Speaker 5: very clearly also then we can have a sort of
Speaker 5: post war architecture with Ukraine in it.
Speaker 4: But effectively the war needs to end first before any
Speaker 4: of that.
Speaker 5: Ukraine needs to achieve that victory is that it has
Speaker 5: to define what is a victory. Nobody else but Ukraine
Speaker 5: has to define what is a victory on the battlefield,
Speaker 5: and we have to be there to support them to
Speaker 5: achieve that.
Speaker 3: What do you make of the conversation that we're having
Speaker 3: here in the United States about our president now eighty
Speaker 3: one years old, in questions about whether he has the
Speaker 3: mental acuity to continue, whether his counterparts in NATO think
Speaker 3: that he should continue in the job. What's your thought?
Speaker 3: What does laugh via?
Speaker 5: Well, I've met President Biden both when I worked at NATO,
Speaker 5: and I look forward to seeing him tomorrow as a summit,
Speaker 5: and I wish at age of eighty one I would
Speaker 5: be as strong as he is. We all have our
Speaker 5: ups and downs, you know, at a moment so I
Speaker 5: don't expect it to lead any kind of tragic outcome
Speaker 5: or anything. But quite clearly, American democracy will be able
Speaker 5: to handle all the challenges, and you will find the
Speaker 5: way through this or through other challenges. I don't doubt that.
Speaker 5: And you will be as strong as ever and as
Speaker 5: powerful as ever.
Speaker 4: And so essentially what you're saying is the strength of
Speaker 4: the country is more about the country as a whole
Speaker 4: versus the figurehead.
Speaker 5: Again, the figure head is important, obviously, I mean, we
Speaker 5: all look up, we describe the free world absolutely, so
Speaker 5: it's very important. But in the same time, obviously we
Speaker 5: all have our ups and downs, and we cannot predict
Speaker 5: when that happens. But I don't know that US is
Speaker 5: the strongest ever.
Speaker 3: We'll be carrying his remarks when he speaks marking seventy
Speaker 3: five years. What do you want to hear from President
Speaker 3: Biden later today?
Speaker 5: I want to hear that America and the link with
Speaker 5: allies as the strongest evers, that we are as united
Speaker 5: as ever, and the strength and the belief in freedom
Speaker 5: and democracy both in Europe and America, and support you Ukraine.
Speaker 4: All right, minister, we appreciate you joining us here at
Speaker 4: Bloomberg Today. That's lappyas Foreign Minister Byba Braja here with
Speaker 4: us around the table and enjoy the remainder of your
Speaker 4: very hot time here in Washington. Make sure to hydrate.
Speaker 4: We appreciate your time, minister. Thank you.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Can
Speaker 2: just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apple car Play
Speaker 2: and enroun Oo with the Bloomberg Business app. You can
Speaker 2: also listen live on Amazon Alexa, our flagship New York station,
Speaker 2: Jo Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 4: Coming to you live from Washington, which is a busy town.
Speaker 4: I must say this week a lot of roads leading
Speaker 4: to the Bloomberg office here blocked off closed. I think
Speaker 4: traffic was a nightmare this morning because there are a
Speaker 4: lot of important people in town, Joe, including the lead
Speaker 4: NATO countries. There's more than thirty of them, and it's
Speaker 4: all teeing up a verty big moment or moments plural
Speaker 4: for President Joe Biden.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you want some real elitist complaining here, you
Speaker 3: can't get around the nation's capital. It's brutal outside. It's
Speaker 3: also about one hundred degrees if we put those two together.
Speaker 3: That's kind of the backdrop for this summit. And can
Speaker 3: we welcome Kaylee Lines back. It's great to see you.
Speaker 2: We missed you for the last week.
Speaker 3: Now that we get serious about some stuff here, this
Speaker 3: is an important moment. Joe Biden's going to speak around
Speaker 3: five o'clock about four hours from now. That will be
Speaker 3: followed by his news conference on Thursday. The world is watching,
Speaker 3: not just Washington, and we'll bring you up to day
Speaker 3: on what's been happening on Capitol Hill earlier today. Let's
Speaker 3: bring in Nick Watams first to talk about what's behind
Speaker 3: this summit and what we should be looking for. He
Speaker 3: runs our national security coverage here in Washington, and it's
Speaker 3: great to see you back here.
Speaker 7: Nick.
Speaker 3: This is a big deal, seventy five years. It's got
Speaker 3: a bit of a cloud hanging over it because of
Speaker 3: domestic politics, questions about Joe Biden. All of these leaders
Speaker 3: are being asked about their relationships with him, but also
Speaker 3: some of the uncertainty following elections in Europe. This is
Speaker 3: a peculiar moment for this summit.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, it's the timing in a lot of
Speaker 8: ways could not be worse. I mean, this was supposed
Speaker 8: to be a summit that was going to be a
Speaker 8: celebration of NATO talk about Unity project, a real show
Speaker 8: of force against Vladimir Putin, I talk about the defense
Speaker 8: of Ukraine. In a lot of ways, it's doing exactly
Speaker 8: the opposite. So you have a lot of concern about
Speaker 8: the long term viability of these leaders. Obviously Joe Biden
Speaker 8: over his age, but the fact that he trails Donald
Speaker 8: Trump so much in the polls. French President Emmanuel Macron
Speaker 8: made an election gamble that didn't turn out so well
Speaker 8: for him. He's looking hobbled Germany as well, rise of
Speaker 8: the far right in a lot of ways. So we
Speaker 8: have these leaders coming in where their focus really is elsewhere.
Speaker 8: And then underneath all of that you have the fact
Speaker 8: that they can't agree on Ukraine. So again we get
Speaker 8: into this dynamic where they're offering, dangling the idea of
Speaker 8: membership at some point for Ukraine, but not giving a
Speaker 8: firm timeline on when that might happen. And that's the
Speaker 8: thing that Ukraine really wants.
Speaker 4: And of course Ukraine is going to make the case
Speaker 4: in person here President vlat of Mrzolinski is in Washington
Speaker 4: for the summit. If not an invitation to be a member.
Speaker 4: Can Ukraine expect anything tangible to come from NATO within the.
Speaker 9: Next few days.
Speaker 8: Well, I think what you will see, what we're hearing
Speaker 8: is that there will be an announcement around air defense.
Speaker 8: What they really want is additional air defenses, so maybe
Speaker 8: some more patriots, a few more batteries, something like that,
Speaker 8: and then a potential form of a longer term commitment.
Speaker 8: But what we're not really going to see is anything
Speaker 8: that actually changes the situation on the ground that would
Speaker 8: allow Ukraine to expelpell Russian forces from its territory. We're
Speaker 8: going to see Ukraine basically being a bunker mode. And
Speaker 8: so that's really the bigger question on Ukraine that hovers
Speaker 8: over this whole thing. Okay, you're going to continue flowing
Speaker 8: weapons to Ukraine, but not give them the weapons they
Speaker 8: need to expel Russia for good. So then what is
Speaker 8: the long term endgame here? Do you just keep going indefinitely.
Speaker 8: Something they have not been able to.
Speaker 3: Answer questions about you mentioned air defense is the use
Speaker 3: of F sixteen's, which we labored over for months. Nick,
Speaker 3: we talked to you about it. It was a no
Speaker 3: then maybe than a yes now apparently there are some
Speaker 3: real challenges in training pilots, even getting runways to be
Speaker 3: adaptable in Ukraine? Was this idea of failure? Did we
Speaker 3: finally say yes? At one point we should have said no.
Speaker 8: Well, I mean, I think what you saw there was
Speaker 8: a desire to essentially, you know, this was something that
Speaker 8: Vladimir Zelensky really wanted. But it's a real numbers game obviously,
Speaker 8: the question of pilots, So the number of you would
Speaker 8: be training, it's a pretty small number in Ukraine. You
Speaker 8: have language issues. These guys would be flying a system
Speaker 8: in working with trainers who are speaking English when they
Speaker 8: may not speak English. And then just the broader term
Speaker 8: issue of well what's this going to look like? How
Speaker 8: long is this going to take and how many plans
Speaker 8: are you actually going to be able to get up
Speaker 8: in the air to make a difference. And right now
Speaker 8: it's one of these things that you know, the time
Speaker 8: lag is so long. I mean you're looking at years
Speaker 8: to get these jets in operation over Ukraine, and then
Speaker 8: you'd be talking about a small number. So it's a
Speaker 8: big investment for not a lot of show.
Speaker 4: Well, and if we're talking over the span of years,
Speaker 4: a lot could change within the course of just the
Speaker 4: next year, including potentially who the president of the United
Speaker 4: States is. How much should we expect to hear from
Speaker 4: NATO members about their plans for the potential of a
Speaker 4: Trump two point zero How much will that dominate the
Speaker 4: conversation this week?
Speaker 8: Well, I mean, it's it's a great question because there
Speaker 8: is no question that it is one of the biggest
Speaker 8: things on everybody's mind, essentially aside from Joe Biden's age.
Speaker 8: But there is also no question that they really do
Speaker 8: not want to be talking about it, or they will
Speaker 8: be talking about it in a way that they don't
Speaker 8: acknowledge it. So you have Canada coming and saying, Okay,
Speaker 8: we're going to offer our path to the appropriate level
Speaker 8: of defense spending, you know, two percent of GDP. We're
Speaker 8: gonna We're gonna tell you how we're gonna get there.
Speaker 8: We're not there yet, but we want to get there.
Speaker 8: That is something that's really aimed at appeasing Republicans Donald Trump,
Speaker 8: who say, listen, everybody in NATO needs to be spending
Speaker 8: that amount. So you're going to see a lot of
Speaker 8: Trump proofing slash Trump orientation in anticipation of him coming.
Speaker 8: But this is not something. I mean, I'd be shocked
Speaker 8: if you hear any one of the thirty or so
Speaker 8: NATO leaders who are in town actually say his name publicly.
Speaker 8: They're just not going to do it.
Speaker 3: Isn't that something We're gonna spend a little time later
Speaker 3: this hour with the Foreign Minister of Latvia. What does
Speaker 3: a successful summit look like to her?
Speaker 8: Well, the Latvians like, like the Baltic countries, they want
Speaker 8: Ukraine to get far more guarantee. They want a much
Speaker 8: more robust path for Ukraine to get to NATO, and
Speaker 8: they also want NATO to make very firm commitments about
Speaker 8: protecting the eastern flank because Baltic countries fear that if
Speaker 8: Vladimir Putin starts to look beyond Ukraine, the first place
Speaker 8: he's going to look is to them. So what we
Speaker 8: are hearing so far is that Baltic countries are not
Speaker 8: especially with happy with the language that's coming out of
Speaker 8: this when they feel that leaders have not budged sufficiently
Speaker 8: to offer the guarantees that Ukraine wants. I mean, they
Speaker 8: are certainly an outlier in the overall sentiment of what
Speaker 8: NATO feels towards Ukraine, but they're not happy right now.
Speaker 3: Even as Europe has stepped up contributions.
Speaker 8: What will we hear on that from Well, I mean again,
Speaker 8: what you're seeing is a lot of dispute between the
Speaker 8: fact that there are some countries like the Baltics that
Speaker 8: want more financial commitments. Obviously they don't have the kind
Speaker 8: of money that the US and Germany and the UK
Speaker 8: have against trees the big countries, the US, the UK,
Speaker 8: Germany not wanting to commit long term. I mean, that's
Speaker 8: what NATO really wants. The Yen Stoltenberg, the outgoing Secretary General,
Speaker 8: he wants long term commitments from all these countries basically
Speaker 8: to move well beyond Trump and offer those guarantees to Ukraine.
Speaker 8: They do not want to offer that. So I expect
Speaker 8: you'll see some financial commitments, but certainly not in the
Speaker 8: tens or twenties of billions of dollars that Ukraine would want.
Speaker 4: All right, Bloomberg's Nick Wadams, who leads our national security coverage,
Speaker 4: thank you so much setting the stage for us great
Speaker 4: primmer on this first day of the NATO summit here
Speaker 4: in Washington, and as we spoke with Nick about it
Speaker 4: comes at a time of great domestic question for the
Speaker 4: United States and President Biden as he gets set to
Speaker 4: speak at NATO later this afternoon, just about four hours
Speaker 4: from now, is when he has expected as lawmakers on
Speaker 4: the Hill debate whether he should be the Democratic nominee
Speaker 4: as they return. We're joined now by one of them,
Speaker 4: I'm pleased to say live from Capitol Hill, Congressman Brad
Speaker 4: Sherman of California. The Democrat is with us now, Congressman,
Speaker 4: and we do want to talk to you, as you
Speaker 4: said on the Foreign Affairs Committee, about NATO and some
Speaker 4: other matters as well. But of course there was a
Speaker 4: caucus meeting with you and your colleagues this morning. Did
Speaker 4: any consensus about the future of Biden as the nominee
Speaker 4: emerge from that meeting or did it just create more confusion.
Speaker 6: We at a consensus that Biden has been an outstanding president.
Speaker 6: Biden had a bad night. Trump has led a bad life.
Speaker 6: As to what we should do now, I won't say that.
Speaker 6: You know, we're a Democratic party. We've got a lot
Speaker 6: of different views. Some thought that no matter what, Biden
Speaker 6: should be our nominee and it shouldn't be discussed. Others
Speaker 6: thought we are at to urge Biden to drop out.
Speaker 6: I took kind of a midpoint. I think that the
Speaker 6: delegates will make the best possible decision if Biden provides
Speaker 6: more tests and more information. We'll see that in the
Speaker 6: press conference he's going to do in a couple of days.
Speaker 6: I would like to see him for ninety minutes live
Speaker 6: at nine PM in the next couple of weeks, because
Speaker 6: on September tenth, he's got his second debate with Trump,
Speaker 6: which will be ninety minutes live at nine PM, and
Speaker 6: it's important that the delegates have a chance to see
Speaker 6: him perform under a similar circumstance.
Speaker 3: This isn't an endless conversation, obviously, Congressman, and I can
Speaker 3: hear your support for Joe Biden here while I realize
Speaker 3: you want to see more. How much time is there
Speaker 3: for Democrats? Is it between now and the convention in Chicago?
Speaker 3: Or are we looking at a couple of weeks here,
Speaker 3: knowing that we've got issues potentially getting on ballots and
Speaker 3: so forth. If it's not going to be Joe Biden
Speaker 3: at the top of the ticket.
Speaker 6: I think it's clear that we can get on all
Speaker 6: the ballots if we act at the time of our convention.
Speaker 6: Ohio was an outlier. They've changed their rules. So although
Speaker 6: we were planning to meet Ohio's requirements by having a
Speaker 6: virtual vote in early August, and now do this on
Speaker 6: August twentieth, and.
Speaker 3: That will work for all fifty states as a political convention,
Speaker 3: is the deadline.
Speaker 6: Yes, And yet I think we'll be making a decision,
Speaker 6: a collective decision, long before then. And I think important
Speaker 6: that we see before the convention that Biden can meet
Speaker 6: that test of September tenth when he debates Trump a
Speaker 6: second time.
Speaker 4: What we have heard from the President congressman is a
Speaker 4: suggestion or a pushback against polling that suggests he is
Speaker 4: lagging behind Donald Trump in a meaningful way, or perhaps
Speaker 4: that has widened since his debate performance at the end
Speaker 4: of last month. Do you believe what you're seeing in
Speaker 4: the polls?
Speaker 6: Well, it takes a while for a major event to
Speaker 6: really register with the public and really be reflected in
Speaker 6: the polls, and so I think it's polls for a
Speaker 6: few days from now that will reflect what happened on
Speaker 6: June twenty seventh. But I don't think anybody would say
Speaker 6: that the debate performance helped the Biden campaign and I
Speaker 6: think a similar performance on September tenth would be a
Speaker 6: big problem. And that's why I think we need our
Speaker 6: presidential candidate, the leader of our party, to demonstrate, then
Speaker 6: the words of Nancy Pelosi, that was an episode, not
Speaker 6: a condition. I think he can meet that test. I'd
Speaker 6: prefer the test to be as close as possible to
Speaker 6: the one he'll face on September September tenth, but there'll
Speaker 6: be a number of ways in which he demonstrates to
Speaker 6: the delegates who are the ultimate decision makers here, that
Speaker 6: he is fully up to the job not only of
Speaker 6: beating Donald Trump, not only of beating him in the debate,
Speaker 6: but also in governing this country until the end of
Speaker 6: the second term.
Speaker 3: Well as a Democrat who has not yet made up
Speaker 3: his mind on this or found common ground with colleagues
Speaker 3: in the House and from your perch on the Foreign
Speaker 3: Affairs Committee, Congressman, what are you looking for when Joe
Speaker 3: Biden speaks at the NATO summit today at five o'clock?
Speaker 3: What do you want to hear? What spirit do you
Speaker 3: expect him to bring to the podium.
Speaker 6: I want him to deal with tough questions that he
Speaker 6: may not have anticipated, and to acquit himself. Well, I
Speaker 6: am very sure that his policies toward NATO will be
Speaker 6: reasonable and ones that I would generally support. So I'm
Speaker 6: not looking at that press conference in terms of does
Speaker 6: he have the right views about our foreign policy. I'm
Speaker 6: looking at that press conference to see whether he can
Speaker 6: convince the country that one debate was just an episode.
Speaker 4: Okay. So if you're not looking for policy, Congressman, others
Speaker 4: might be is there a tangible outcome you would like
Speaker 4: to see from the NATO summit this week as it
Speaker 4: pertains to Ukraine or anything else.
Speaker 6: Well, I think we need European trees and Canada to
Speaker 6: step forward and meet that two percent commitment. The majority
Speaker 6: of NATO countries have done that, but most of that
Speaker 6: majority are the smaller countries with the smaller gross national products.
Speaker 6: We need to see Germany and France step forward, when
Speaker 6: need to see Canada step forward and spend more on
Speaker 6: their own defense. They used to think that they're on
Speaker 6: a totally safe continent. That is clearly not the case.
Speaker 3: You make of all this talk of Trump proofing NATO, Congressman,
Speaker 3: and the idea of European nations looking to stand up
Speaker 3: their own armies possibly an EU army in a world
Speaker 3: in which the United States is no longer leading as
Speaker 3: the tip of the spear in this alliance. Is that
Speaker 3: a conversation that you're allowing.
Speaker 6: I think that if they spend the money and particularly
Speaker 6: on equipment and develop their own military forces, that the
Speaker 6: NATO can and structure will work well. I think that
Speaker 6: if there are so many reasons for Europe to be
Speaker 6: able to do more, maybe one of those reasons is
Speaker 6: that under a Trump administration, America would do less.
Speaker 4: It's great to have you, Congressman, weigh in on that,
Speaker 4: given your seat on the Foreign Affairs Committee, just in
Speaker 4: our final moment with you knowing you also sit on
Speaker 4: House Financial Services. What's your top question for FED Shair
Speaker 4: Jerome Powell when he testifies before you tomorrow.
Speaker 6: Well, the big issue here was his testimony today that
Speaker 6: they're going to completely revise and republish the apposal three
Speaker 6: banking regulations. Too many of our regulations push the banks
Speaker 6: to put their money on Wall Street and not to
Speaker 6: make those small loans to businesses on Main Street. And
Speaker 6: we need bank regulations that don't unfairly discriminate in favor
Speaker 6: of a buying billion dollars bond portfolios and instead push
Speaker 6: the banks to their true role of making loans in
Speaker 6: local cities.
Speaker 3: Great to have you back, Congressman. We'll be watching and listening.
Speaker 3: That hearing starts ten am tomorrow. As j Powell moves
Speaker 3: to the house side Brad Sherman of California with the
Speaker 3: view from a Democrat in the middle of this conversation today, Kaylee,
Speaker 3: pretty interesting. That was a private meeting that we were
Speaker 3: talking to him about. No cameras or microphones.
Speaker 4: Yeah, just a lot of questions for reporters who are
Speaker 4: out there sweating in the heat. As lawmakers emerged, and
Speaker 4: as the Congressman suggested, doesn't seem like they emerged with
Speaker 4: one idea of whether or not Joe Biden should continue.
Speaker 2: We got a TBD on that one. You're listening to
Speaker 2: the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays
Speaker 2: at noon Eastern on AMO CarPlay and Thenroud Auto with
Speaker 2: the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get
Speaker 2: your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 4: We have a few top stories, and to some extent
Speaker 4: they are related, as one pertains to the future of
Speaker 4: President Joe Biden. As the Democratic nominee in this twenty
Speaker 4: twenty four election cycle. The other pertains to something else
Speaker 4: on his plate this week, which is the NITO summit
Speaker 4: that is being held here in Washington. He will be
Speaker 4: speaking at that summit less than four hours from now.
Speaker 3: Joe, Yeah, we'll bring you some of his remarks to
Speaker 3: get a sense of how it's going. I don't know
Speaker 3: he's going to make a lot of news today, Kaylee.
Speaker 3: This is kind of the opener, but every time Joe
Speaker 3: Biden is in front of a camera, it's a moment here.
Speaker 3: That's just kind of the world that we're in. Just
Speaker 3: hours after House Democrats met on this matter, you were
Speaker 3: hearing us discuss it earlier. There doesn't appear to be
Speaker 3: following our conversation with Congressman Sherman, any consensus moving forward.
Speaker 3: Everyone's in a wait and see mode, and I suspect
Speaker 3: that goes for our panel as well. Adam Hodge is
Speaker 3: with us today, Democratic strategist, managing director the Bully Pulpit
Speaker 3: International and a veteran of the National Security Council and
Speaker 3: the Biden administration, joined by Lester Munson, of course, Republican
Speaker 3: strategist back with us from BGR Group It's great to
Speaker 3: have both of you with us here.
Speaker 6: Adam.
Speaker 3: This is another test today as we've been seeing for
Speaker 3: Joe Biden. But coming off of that conversation we just
Speaker 3: had with Congressman Sherman, is this good news or bad
Speaker 3: news when you hear a California Democrat saying I support
Speaker 3: Joe Biden, but we haven't found consensus yet.
Speaker 9: I think there's no question that the President has had
Speaker 9: a good twenty four hours. And if you look at
Speaker 9: where the conversation was leading into this weekend, I don't
Speaker 9: think what you heard from Brad Sherman there was what
Speaker 9: you would have heard of if we didn't have the
Speaker 9: last twenty four hours from the Biden campaign. The president
Speaker 9: has been forcefull. He's been clear about what his vision
Speaker 9: and what his record is. He has to maintain that
Speaker 9: for the next one hundred and nineteen days to prove
Speaker 9: to the voters why he should be the Democratic nominee.
Speaker 9: Only he can do that, and that's the task at
Speaker 9: hand for this week, certainly with NATO, but also leading
Speaker 9: into the Democratic invention and then at the debate in
Speaker 9: September through election Day.
Speaker 4: Well Lester, considering the concerns about the president's age and
Speaker 4: mental acuity seem to be so pervasive at this point.
Speaker 4: How far could one speech this evening, you know, or
Speaker 4: one press conference later on this week that we're expecting Thursday,
Speaker 4: go to to erasing some of those concern or is
Speaker 4: it going to take more than just a few good
Speaker 4: moments to erase the bad ones?
Speaker 7: I think it's gonna it's gonna take more than a
Speaker 7: few Kyley. The speech today, I don't think is going
Speaker 7: to push things one where or another absence some dramatic event,
Speaker 7: because he'll be likely reading off a teleprompter and he
Speaker 7: can do okay in that kind of situation. The press
Speaker 7: conference later this week is a little more interesting. Is
Speaker 7: he going to get some unexpected questions?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 7: The White House has been the staff have been hit
Speaker 7: for trying to manage these things a little too closely.
Speaker 7: Can they have a free wheeling event, and can the
Speaker 7: President be in the moment and be fully responsive and
Speaker 7: give clear and complete answers. That would be a nice
Speaker 7: step forward for him, but he's gonna again he's going
Speaker 7: to have to do that consistently for the next four months.
Speaker 3: A lot of quis about the President's relationship with his
Speaker 3: doctor and whether he was seeking some sort of therapy
Speaker 3: for something more than just getting old. Parkinson's came up
Speaker 3: a number of times in the White House Press briefing yesterday,
Speaker 3: and his doctor had to issue a letter last night
Speaker 3: two pages long to clarify. I want to bring it
Speaker 3: back to the White House briefing room yesterday Karine Jean Pierre,
Speaker 3: the Press Secretary, and a back and forth with reporters on.
Speaker 7: This was this experts visits whereas multiplejits the president.
Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing I've said, he's he has had
Speaker 1: three he has had three three physicals.
Speaker 6: In those three.
Speaker 1: Physicals, that's when he has seen a specialist, neurological specialists.
Speaker 1: I cannot speak to every person because there are actually
Speaker 1: there's actually a security reasons to protect their privacy. We
Speaker 1: respect and protecting people's privacy, so do not want to share.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to share people's names from here.
Speaker 2: Very bait.
Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, way, wait a.
Speaker 2: Second, wait times, or at least once in.
Speaker 6: Regard to hold on a second.
Speaker 8: You should be able to answer by this point.
Speaker 1: Wait no, no, no, no, no, no wait a minute, Ed,
Speaker 1: please a little respect here.
Speaker 3: That's Ed O'Keeffe, our colleague, at CBS News from the
Speaker 3: briefing room yesterday. So we go to a two page
Speaker 3: letter from the doctor Kevin O'Connor who visited the White House.
Speaker 3: He said, Kevin Kinnard visited the White House several times
Speaker 3: over the last year. This is the neurology consultant to
Speaker 3: the White House Medical Office, and he apparently holds neurology
Speaker 3: clinics at the White House for active duty military members.
Speaker 3: This is difficult for people to start getting through their
Speaker 3: heads here exactly who's coming, who's going? Did he see
Speaker 3: a neurologist? Does he have Parkinson's? You know, there's something
Speaker 3: about if you're explaining or losing? I think is the
Speaker 3: line is the White House Communications Office, the press office
Speaker 3: up to this look.
Speaker 9: I think what you heard from the White House last
Speaker 9: night is that the President has seen a neurologist and
Speaker 9: the words of very, very care a neurologist each physical
Speaker 9: I having been in the White House Medical Unit, yes,
Speaker 9: having seen people who've come and gone out of that room.
Speaker 9: There are a lot of experts and who treat a
Speaker 9: lot of active duty and reservists who work at the
Speaker 9: White House. There's an act. I mean, he is the
Speaker 9: commander in chief. Let's not forget that. Sure, he has
Speaker 9: military aids who are with him all the time, and
Speaker 9: they also get care through the White House Medical Unit.
Speaker 9: The doctor was very clear like that. They said he
Speaker 9: saw the neurologist one time for each of the physicals
Speaker 9: that he's had over the last few years, and each
Speaker 9: of those visits they determined and did an assessment, and
Speaker 9: they determined he did not have Parkinson's. That's what a
Speaker 9: doctor I mean, he's a doctor. He has the medical
Speaker 9: oath that he has to follow, and he has made
Speaker 9: clear that that's not the president's diagnosis. And so I
Speaker 9: think what you saw yesterday was the White House not
Speaker 9: quite able to speak to the full breath of what
Speaker 9: the doctor canard, I think his name, what his full
Speaker 9: scope of work is there. They then got that clarity
Speaker 9: and informed the public that's what you saw last night.
Speaker 4: Well, I guess it becomes a question of knowing the
Speaker 4: intensity around of the scrutiny into Joe Biden and his
Speaker 4: mental and physical health right now. Is it not a
Speaker 4: moment in which the White House or the campaign needs
Speaker 4: to be embracing a kind of radical transparency. There's been
Speaker 4: a lot of talk about taking a cognitive test for
Speaker 4: both Joe Biden and Donald Trump. Would it not behove
Speaker 4: President Biden, as a candidate who wants to be elected
Speaker 4: for another four years, go deeper into his eighties in
Speaker 4: the meantime to just say, all right, fine, I will
Speaker 4: do it. I will put the questions to bed.
Speaker 9: My understanding is that the neurological exam that as part
Speaker 9: of his physical is more robust than the cognitive test.
Speaker 9: So I take that as I'm not a doctor. Sure
Speaker 9: neither the three of us are doctors, but I'll take
Speaker 9: that from what I read and what I heard, I
Speaker 9: think what is clear that the President should do over
Speaker 9: the next one hundred and nineteen days is everything they
Speaker 9: can to dispel this idea that the president is unfit
Speaker 9: to serve another four years. And so, like Congressman Sherman said,
Speaker 9: it's a good idea. The White House can have him
Speaker 9: do more press conferences in primetime. Also will help prep
Speaker 9: for the debate in September, have a great speech at
Speaker 9: the convention, do all those steps to show the American
Speaker 9: public that what you saw from Joe Biden over the
Speaker 9: last twenty four hours is what you can expect throughout
Speaker 9: the rest of the campaign and in the next four years,
Speaker 9: that's his job.
Speaker 2: Let's right on.
Speaker 3: If you read the New York Times this morning. I
Speaker 3: don't know if you go near the New York Times,
Speaker 3: but James Carvell's writing an op ed today, and man,
Speaker 3: it's a doozy. He says that Joe Biden is not
Speaker 3: going to be the nominee. Mark my words. The top line.
Speaker 3: Biden is not going to be the nominee. Will be
Speaker 3: out of the twenty twenty four presidential race, whether he
Speaker 3: is ready to admit it or not. And he's proposing
Speaker 3: a new approach here, forget all those people in the
Speaker 3: White House. Carvel calling for a super democratic process, as
Speaker 3: he names this, to choose the nominee, starting with four
Speaker 3: regional town halls moderated by former Presidents Obama and Clinton.
Speaker 3: I don't know what James Carvill had with dinner last night, Lester,
Speaker 3: but what would happen if that took place?
Speaker 7: Well, boy, talk about the clash of egos. This it's
Speaker 7: pretty spectactically, Omar. I did see that piece. I do
Speaker 7: like the New York Times most of the time. I
Speaker 7: think I think Carville is probably correct. This Again, common
Speaker 7: sense tells us this the condition of the President is
Speaker 7: only going in one direction, and he can you know,
Speaker 7: as much as the White House staff, God bless them,
Speaker 7: they're doing their jobs, are trying to offer some spin
Speaker 7: and some cover and explanations. People see what is happening.
Speaker 7: They saw it very clearly during the debate. The president, really,
Speaker 7: he's going to have to be flawless going forward here.
Speaker 7: If he's gonna if he's gonna stay in this position
Speaker 7: and at all competitive with Donald Trump in November, that's
Speaker 7: the real issue. And I think James Carville, I'm old
Speaker 7: enough to remember when he was only middle age and
Speaker 7: a pretty good campaign consultant for Bill Clinton. He really
Speaker 7: cares about the Democratic Party and about defeating Donald Trump,
Speaker 7: and that's where this is coming from, and so I
Speaker 7: think we should The mechanics may not be perfect for
Speaker 7: what he's describing, but the sentiment I think is spot on.
Speaker 4: Adam, you want to quickly weigh in on this with
Speaker 4: about about thirty secon super Democratic press.
Speaker 9: I mean, I think the chances of Barack Obama stepping
Speaker 9: into an event like that are virtually zero. I think
Speaker 9: he has shown he has no interest in stepping into that.
Speaker 9: I think Lester Raises a good point about where the
Speaker 9: Democratic Party is. We've got to figure out and Joe
Speaker 9: Biden has to make the case of why he should
Speaker 9: be the Democratic nominee. If he does that, he decides
Speaker 9: he's the nominee, then Democrats have to unite behind.
Speaker 4: Him, all right. Adam Hodge, Democratic strategist and managing director
Speaker 4: ATLIT International, thank you so much for joining us today
Speaker 4: alongside Republican strategist Leinster Munson, who is the co head
Speaker 4: of the international practice at the BGR Group. While we've
Speaker 4: been talking about the Democratic nominee and where the delegates
Speaker 4: ultimately are going to go political reporting, now Joe Nicki
Speaker 4: Haley releasing her ninety seven delegates and telling them to
Speaker 4: vote for Donald Trump, just like at the convention.
Speaker 3: So much for a contested convention in Milwaukee.
Speaker 6: We'll find out.
Speaker 2: I'm but of Chakaka.
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make
Speaker 3: sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify,
Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find
Speaker 3: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern
Speaker 3: at Bloomberg dot com.