1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom never told you. From how Supports 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline 3 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: and I'm Kristen, and we are not going to spend 4 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: the whole show talking about my babysitting experience. Yeah. I 5 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: know that the notes that I say you are literally 6 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: just stories about my life. Kristen, It's just copies of 7 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: your childhood diary. Um. I had this great babysitter growing up. 8 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: She was she was my neighbor actually, and I just 9 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: totally admired her. I thought she was so pretty and 10 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: so mature and I just like worshiped her. Um. But 11 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: she stopped babysitting for us after one particular incident. What 12 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: did you do? So? Um? She came over and as entertainment, 13 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: we were painting right well, so at one point, being silly, 14 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: she dipped her hand in the green paint. I remember 15 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: it as if it were yesterday. Dipped her hand in 16 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: the green paint and started chasing me around the house 17 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: with this wet paint hand, and I was like terrified. 18 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 1: I was seriously terrified because I was like, oh my god, 19 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: you're gonna get it on my clothes. It's so messy. 20 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: Mom is gonna be so upset that you've got paint 21 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: in the living room, And so I like ran screaming 22 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: away from and she's like, ha ha, come back. I 23 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: was so like scared and traumatized that I spent the 24 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: rest of the night that my parents were out, literally 25 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 1: sitting in front of the front door like the dog 26 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: who's waiting for the owner to return, just like staring 27 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: out the window like are they back yet? Are they 28 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: back yet? After that, she never babysat for us again. 29 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: As you were telling that story, Caroline, I was mentally 30 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: cataloging all of the babysitters that I had, and one 31 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: of the ones who stands out the most to me 32 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: was a babysitter who brought over a flying squirrel with her. Yeah, 33 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: and I distinctly remember being a little bit afraid of 34 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 1: her pet flying squirrel and also um watching her like 35 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: nervously trying to extract this like terrified flying squirrel from 36 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 1: our living room curtains. I don't think I don't think 37 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 1: it went as she had planned. Yeah, well, but you're 38 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,119 Speaker 1: the youngest of five. Did your siblings never babysit you? Yeah? 39 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 1: I think they did. I mean, we got to that 40 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: age where I mean there were so many of us, 41 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, our parents could leave us alone. But 42 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: I remember having a number of babysitters, and we had 43 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 1: a couple who I mean, they were like family members 44 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: and they would come over. Um. Although I do remember 45 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 1: one whose name was also Kristen, and I thought that 46 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: was so cool. And she had like just always wore 47 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: like really cool you know, like early nineties clothes like 48 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: Clarissa good, like ear rings and stuff. Um. And she 49 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: came over one time and she brought McDonald's with her 50 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: as her dinner. And I so distinctly remember sitting on 51 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: the floor of the den while we were watching television 52 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 1: and she was eating her McDonald's and I was just 53 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: staring at it. I'd already had dinner. And she looks 54 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: at me and she goes, you know, it's rude to 55 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: stare at other people's food, And I was so hurt. 56 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 1: I was like, just can't you tell I'm like seven, 57 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: and I just want to fry so both of us, 58 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: both of these stories and and us sitting in front 59 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: of other people like dogs. But babysitting was also an 60 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: aspirational job for me as the youngest of five kids, 61 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: because that's the thing. It was a very appealing prospect 62 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: to have full rain over other children. I was the opposite. 63 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: I did not because also as a child, I was 64 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: not a joiner. I never was a girl scout. I 65 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: never took ballet or horseback riding or any of that. 66 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: UM camp was horrible because of that time that that 67 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: one girl tried to strangle me Morgan and so babysitting 68 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: was another one of those like typical stereotypical girl activities. 69 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 1: It was almost a rite of passage that I opted 70 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: out of. I think I babysat for people three times, 71 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: two families, and I just was not interested. I was like, 72 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: I don't want this power. I don't like kids. I 73 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: don't want to be around kids. They're like fifty million things, 74 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: mostly reading a book that I would rather be doing 75 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: than taking care of children. I was all about it 76 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: because I saw it as my opportunity, as like a 77 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 1: twelve year old to eat some free food. Because usually 78 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: they'd have good snacks. My mom was like super healthy. 79 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: We never had exciting snacks, so you get the cool snacks. 80 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: Usually the parents would buy pizza. I could make some 81 00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 1: cash and again the kid around. So it was ideal 82 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: and it, and it fit into this image I had 83 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: in my mind of what like a cool thirteen year 84 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: old like tween ager would look like. And uh, she 85 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 1: had like pink glasses and braces, and she was a 86 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: babysitter and that's like who I really wanted to be. Um, 87 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: now that I am half blind, I don't care for 88 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: that so much. But also too is from the influence 89 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: of my older sister who was obsessed with The Babysitters Club. 90 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: You know, I never read them. I think I just 91 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: heard gasps from the audience. But like, I never read 92 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: The Babysitters Club. As soon as I could, I remember 93 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: it was it was kind of a write of passage 94 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: for me to be allowed to read The Babysitters Club. 95 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: Not because there was anything scandalous in it at all, 96 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: but it was like one of those things like getting 97 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: my ears here. So it was like, once you were 98 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: of age, you can you can read this story. Well, 99 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: so you read The Babysitters Club and became a babysitter. 100 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: I read The Box Card Shoulder and then became a hobo. 101 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: I read The Box Car Children too, and also tried 102 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 1: to play Orphan in the Backyard so many times. Um, 103 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: but just a quick note in the process of researching 104 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: for this episode, which is not going to be about 105 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: the Babysits Club fortunately, but That's serious has sold one 106 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: hundred seventies six million copies and that crazy. Yeah, and 107 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: there are like a bajillion books written by just two people. 108 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: There are bajillion books, um. And and this will relate 109 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: to our conversation though about sort of the sociology and 110 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: gender of babysitting because it was launched during a time 111 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: when babysitting had fallen out of popularity with young girls 112 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: and the Babysitters Club in away. It was kind of 113 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: like propaganda to get more girls into babysitting and listen, 114 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: it totally worked on yours truly. Well, I mean, thank 115 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 1: god it came along because, as we're going to get 116 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 1: into here in just a second, like the image of 117 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: babysitters in pop culture was horrifying. It's still kind of 118 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: is it gets gross real fast? Yeah, not least of 119 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: all because of the connection with porn. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, 120 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: if you google, don't don't google it, don't don't google it. 121 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: But I was looking for an article, uh, talking about 122 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: whether it was a news item or just like maybe 123 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: a think piece on cultural fears about dad's and babysitters, 124 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: like whether it's dad's praying on babysitters or girls whatever, 125 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: all of that stuff. But when you google dad babysitter, 126 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: you just get nothing but porn, and I mean a 127 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: lot of it. And I didn't click on any link 128 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: because hello, that's disturbing, and also I'm on my work computer. 129 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: But um there. It just reflects this like super deeply 130 00:07:55,480 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: ingrained cultural ick factor that people have around teen girls 131 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: in babysitting. Yeah. I mean, it's just a sexualization of 132 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: teen girls and the whole like quote unquote like virgin factor. 133 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: There's all sorts of stuff wrapped up in it. But 134 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: we also see this reflected in a different sort of 135 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: way in our celebrity tabloid culture, because I mean, how 136 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: many stories do we have to hear about the nanny, 137 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: like in trapping the celebrity husband. I mean, most recently 138 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: there was Gwen Stefani and Gavin Rossdale divorcing allegedly because 139 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: he had an extensive fare with their nanny. Ditto with 140 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner, Ditto with Jude Law. Oh yeah, 141 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: that the little with the terminator A k A. Schwarzenegger. 142 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: But I mean, there were literally just so many. But 143 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 1: we should note too that the whole nanny thing and 144 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: governess is distinct from adolescent babysitter that we're going to 145 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:02,199 Speaker 1: focus on in this podcast. Yeah, because that is a 146 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: separate issue where we're definitely talking about the sexualization and 147 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: sort of uncomfortable nous that people have with teenage girls. 148 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: And this basically stretches back too when we first got 149 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,319 Speaker 1: the teenager. I mean, and that sounds silly, like, what 150 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: do you mean when we first got teenagers? They've always 151 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: been teenagers? No. No, the teenager as we think of her, 152 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: really was an invention of the early twentieth century. That culture. Yeah, 153 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: it really emerged after World War One, where you have 154 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,839 Speaker 1: this sort of distinct phase of life and culture building 155 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: up around that. You have the automobile, which the automobile 156 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: which whisks kids out of the home and also gives 157 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: them a place to make out away from their parents 158 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:56,599 Speaker 1: watchful eye, and very quickly with the emergence of the teenager, 159 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: we get a lot of a lot of concerns about 160 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: those teenage girls. Yeah, So the literature around babysitters basically 161 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: is parallel two stories of how important they are. They 162 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: are critical to people being able to work and go 163 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: out and enjoy their lives. Um, but what their importance 164 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: means for our families and societies, and then the fears 165 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: over their behavior. There's a lot of anxiety wrapped up 166 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: in well, why do you need a babysitter? Can you 167 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: not provide for your family? Can you not take care 168 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: of your family? Oh? Oh, it means that the woman 169 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: is working. How how dare you have a woman working 170 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: outside of the home. And before we get too far 171 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: into it, I want to give a shout out to 172 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: the source for the bulk of this material of what 173 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: we're talking about today, and that's author Miriam Foreman Brunel, 174 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: who I feel like we just should have called her 175 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: up and had her on because the thing is, I 176 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: was reading her book about babysitting in America, and as 177 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: I went to find additional information to pull to to 178 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: supplement the stuff that we're talking about, I was I 179 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: was reading this source and I was like, Okay, well, 180 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: you know, let me get who's the author of this. 181 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: Let me appropriately side it. Oh, it's it's Miriam Foreman 182 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: and Brunelle again, And then I went to a third 183 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: source and was reading and reading and reading again. Miriam 184 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: Foreman Brunell, she's like the queen of academic literature about 185 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: babysitters well, and just more broadly to girlhood culture in America. 186 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: And as she notes, there has been so little scholarship 187 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: on babysitters in particular, even though they do play such 188 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,959 Speaker 1: a central role in our nation's economy and also in 189 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: our home lives, and again our perceptions of teen girls 190 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 1: in particular. Although we're gonna talk about boys too, Yeah, 191 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: and so you know, I mean, we've always had children 192 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,599 Speaker 1: watching children in this country. I mean it's not like 193 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,599 Speaker 1: children were just either abandoned or with mom. There was 194 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: no in between. I mean, whether it was puritan girls 195 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: helping their mothers in colonial times or immigrant children called 196 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: little mothers during the progressive era, you've always had older 197 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 1: siblings who were expected to help out and take care 198 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: of the kids. And in the South before the Civil War, 199 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: you had slave children who were expected to watch the 200 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: children of white families, and sometimes too, you would have 201 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: the white slave owner's wife watching over the slave children. 202 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:31,319 Speaker 1: Strange like not good relationships. There lots of dynamics at 203 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: play when we get into the Victorian era, you've got 204 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: young women working as governesses, and again like christ And said, 205 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: we're not going to go into that per se, but 206 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: trust me, there was also plenty of sex and class 207 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: related fears around governesses too. And during the Progressive era, 208 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: you've got these young preteen girls called baby tenders who 209 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: would help well off mothers by pushing strollers. And they 210 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: were eventually though, phased out when these notions of childhood 211 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,199 Speaker 1: being precious caught on, Like, oh, suddenly, I guess I 212 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: can't employ this, this you know, eleven year old to 213 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: push my stroller around a baby tender, And that just 214 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: makes me think about chicken tenders and be I would 215 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: like a baby tender just for like my um, like 216 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: my work bag, like my my my laptop and all 217 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: my other my other things. Well, we have colleagues with children, 218 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:23,839 Speaker 1: so there we go. Yeah, I have a lot of 219 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 1: nieces and nephew. I wonder, I wonder if our producer null, like, 220 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 1: if his daughter needs anything to do, she can come 221 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: in and be our baby tender. A Craigslist ad for 222 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 1: a baby tender that won't get flagged. Um. During the 223 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: Progressive era, though there were new laws enacted that prevented 224 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: girls from working in what they called street trades like 225 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 1: selling newspapers or shining shoes, and obviously prostitution. Um but 226 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: a few older girls also received allowances from their parents. 227 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:57,959 Speaker 1: So babysitting becomes something that in uh these in a 228 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: number of states where these laws were passed, that was 229 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: legal a for them to do, but also a way 230 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: for them to earn money. And also hence why delivering 231 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: newspapers became something that boys would do. The newspaper boy 232 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: and the babysitter girl. You've got to have all those 233 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: laws protecting girls even though it prevents them from doing 234 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: cool things and making money, watch out for the street trades. Well. 235 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: Uh So, as society is changing, we get the development 236 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: of the babysitter and the teen girl at the same time. 237 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:32,239 Speaker 1: And Farm and Brunel writes that what adults enduring anxieties 238 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: about babysitters reveal is unease about the far reaching gender 239 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: and generational changes that give rise to the modern American 240 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: teen girl, whose emergence coincided with the creation of the 241 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: babysitter in the nineteen twenties. So she talked about how, 242 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: starting around this point, you've got this highly charged position 243 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: of a youthful stranger in your home, overseeing your children, 244 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: and how she became a lightning rod for our anxiety. Yeah, 245 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: I mean pretty much ever since the babysitter was invented 246 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: in the nineteen twenties. Although at that time we weren't 247 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: yet calling them babysitters, we immediately began throwing shade at 248 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: these teen girls. For instance, one nineteen twenties parenting guide 249 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: urged moms not to hire high school girls who trundled 250 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: quote babies about to hockey games, basketball practice, and engaged 251 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: in street corner flirtation um. And they were also concerned 252 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: about teens who had quote unquote modern behaviors i e. 253 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: Interests in clothes, boys, and sports. This is like happening 254 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: for the first time outside of the home. So there's 255 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: just like all sorts of anxiety. I mean, watch out 256 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: for your child, don't you know. Make sure no one 257 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: takes it to a hockey game. Put the kid in 258 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: a backpack and dip it up, put some maybe put 259 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: some snacks in there, like actually that someone's really great. 260 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: If anybody wants to put me in a backpack with 261 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: snacks and carry me around, I think you need a 262 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: Caroline Tender. Yes, I do again Nol's daughter. Um, but 263 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: babysitting was was a compromise because with this emerging teen culture, 264 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: you have all of these girls with this desire for 265 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: freedom and an expectation of freedom, but you have adults 266 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: expectations that girls not only stay close to home, but 267 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: that they stay in more feminine pursuits. You're not to 268 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: sell newspapers on the street corners, so babysitting was a compromise, 269 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: and that you get to earn money and be somewhat independent, 270 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: but you're still doing something maternal like taking care of children. Yeah. 271 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: And it's worth remembering too that this is right after 272 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: women had finally won the right to vote in nineteen twenty, 273 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: and we're working more than ever before. I mean, things 274 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: were kind of topsy turvy in terms of gender roles. 275 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: This is the era the new woman transitioning into the 276 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: flapper era to where the ladies were just like, I 277 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: don't give a hoot, scan but it's funny how things work, 278 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,640 Speaker 1: and it's funny how our culture works because as more 279 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: women are leaving the home, not that they were locked up, 280 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,959 Speaker 1: but you know, kind of they were socially um more 281 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: and more, you have this idea of traditional motherhood being 282 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 1: emphasized by everybody, from experts who were writing books to 283 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 1: this new, strong and high powered advertising industry who were painting, 284 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: literally painting pictures of mothers with their children, saying this 285 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 1: is the kind of parent you have to be. Well, 286 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: and that also points to the class issues tied up 287 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: in all of this as well, because it seems like 288 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: the invention and necessity of a babysitter is a product 289 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 1: of like higher socio economic status. Is because there were 290 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: always working class women who had to leave the home 291 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 1: and had to have like probably their kids watching after 292 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: their kids in unpaid circumstances. You certainly had that existing 293 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 1: for women of color from the get go. Um, So 294 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: that's also something to keep in the back of your 295 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: mind of how how very white and middle upper class 296 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,439 Speaker 1: all this is. Yeah, and you were sort of damned 297 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: if you do, damned if you don't, because while hiring 298 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: a babysitter was a necessity if you were going to 299 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 1: as a parent leave the house, whether it was for 300 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 1: work or just to go to a movie, you were 301 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: also criticized by parenting experts who were saying, oh, well, 302 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: you're leaving your children with this flippant teenage girl. So, 303 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: not surprisingly, once we get to the thirties and the 304 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: term babysitter is coined, you start to see more formal 305 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 1: babysitting training. I do remember that in my babysitting days, 306 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: Caroline having to take that CPR course. But back to 307 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: the thirties, in an effort to make sure that these 308 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: unbridled girls would adhere to standards acceptable to grown ups 309 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: rather than their friends at hockey games. Yeah, so instead 310 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: of encouraging young girls to put babies in backpacks and 311 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 1: go flirt on street corners, having them go to these 312 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: training classes was a way to standardize this quote unquote profession, 313 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 1: and it was a way to ensure that these girls 314 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: were still feminine despite this independence. And similarly, in the 315 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties, I know we're jumping forward, but you see 316 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: babysitting training starting to get stuck into home at courses, 317 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: which does closely maintain its alignment with that traditional caregiving femininity. 318 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: But you know who was also in quite high demand 319 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: for babysitting back in the forties fifties. We're boys. Yeah, 320 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: there's like so much like squick factor these days of 321 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: oh a male babysitter. I mean it's like a whole 322 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: like side joke on Modern Family and like other like 323 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: so many other sitcoms of a teen boy watching children, 324 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: something must be off. But teen boys were considered excellent 325 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: babysitters basically because, um, they were considered more level headed 326 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: than wild girls, and also they could model masculinity to 327 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: the boys they might be babysitting because dad was out 328 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: of the home, so there were concerns that like, oh, 329 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: you know, our little little Johnny is gonna get too soft, 330 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: so bringing the male babysitter who can teach them how 331 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 1: to be a man, Well, that was definitely a way, 332 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: I mean, that was how a lot of people felt. 333 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 1: But that was also a way that parenting and childcare 334 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: experts tried to sell male babysitters to people, because there's 335 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: this weird push and pull around having male babysitters. Like, yes, 336 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 1: they were in high demand because they were considered more 337 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: in control of themselves than those like flippant, crazy flapper girls. Um, 338 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 1: but mothers at this time, even then, had a degree 339 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: of discomfort around like, oh, well, this isn't like a 340 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: feminine pursuit. He's uh, you know, he's a boy, what 341 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:19,360 Speaker 1: does he want to do watching children? And so experts 342 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 1: sort of backed these boys up, saying like, no, no, no, Um, 343 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: they're capable of having this gentle determination, which is what 344 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 1: one of the manuals said in order to be like, oh, 345 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: he's not too masculine, but don't worry, he's not too 346 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: feminine either, because the thing is, by the late nineteen thirties, 347 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 1: teen boys had established informal childcare networks, and you had 348 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: vocational training programs targeting them to turn them into their 349 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: own standardized army of sitters. Caroline, this means that boys 350 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: were the original babysitters club. And that was the sound 351 00:21:55,240 --> 00:22:00,199 Speaker 1: of my mind exploding, my mind and my childhood exploding. Um. 352 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 1: But I love all of these anecdotes that Miriam Foreman 353 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: Brunnell weaves in of these college guys at the time 354 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: who were also super into babysitting. I don't have the 355 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 1: exact name in front of me, but she mentions this 356 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: one group of guys at Princeton who formed their own 357 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 1: their own babysitters club. I'm realizing that all of these 358 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: are just like babysitters clubs. And they called it something 359 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: like tiny tot time or something like that, a lot 360 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: of like t alliteration, and it was I think specifically 361 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: for Princeton's faculties kids to to go to. But then 362 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: there was also over at Harvard athletes college athletes, UM, 363 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: and specifically football players who would babysit as kind of 364 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: part of the athletic program. There was one football coach 365 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: he was like, I'm was proud of these boys and 366 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 1: the babysitting skills as I am of their football skills. Yeah. 367 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: Their their motto was when parents step out, a Harvard 368 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: athletes steps and oh my gosh, why is no one 369 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: made that into a movie? Um. But by the mid fifties, 370 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: apparently a quarter of teen boys worked as babysitters. And 371 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: again they were especially popular among you know, moms and 372 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 1: parents who were just like a little nervous about teen 373 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 1: girls and their and their crushes. And you mentioned that 374 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: by the mid fifties they were about a quarter of 375 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 1: teen boys who worked as sitters. But around this time 376 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: nearly half of teen girls who are working as sitters. 377 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: And when you get into World War two, a lot 378 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 1: of those girls believed that by watching children, they were 379 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: helping the war effort because they were allowing more moms 380 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: to work and leave the home, which meant that, hey, 381 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: the more you help moms work and you help the 382 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: war effort, the sooner that men can come home and 383 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 1: this war will be over. But despite the fact that 384 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: they might have felt like they had this greater calling 385 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: during the war, it still wasn't always a great deal. 386 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: You were expected to help out with the housework. You 387 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:06,159 Speaker 1: wouldn't always make appropriate wages according to these young girls, 388 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: and you might have to watch five or twenty kids 389 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: at the same time and work late, just wait for 390 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 1: these parents to come home from their shifts. And so 391 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: you start to see the origins of girls being like, hey, 392 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: wait a second, we need to we need to come 393 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: together and figure out how to improve babysitting conditions. Really 394 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: interesting stuff, little girls unionizing. All right, Well, we're gonna 395 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: get into that when we come right back from a 396 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: quick break. So we're picking up our babysitting timeline after 397 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 1: World War Two, and before we dig into all of 398 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: the the anxiety, the growing inks around team girls, and 399 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: also the expansion though at the same time of the 400 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: babysitting sector. I would like to note Caroline Um one 401 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,719 Speaker 1: of the most surprising babysitters we ran across in our 402 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: research one Sylvia Plath. Oh God, I know, I so 403 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: badly want a daria esque cartoon featuring Sylvia Platha's a babysitter. 404 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: So in nine one she writes a column for Christian 405 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: Science Monitor called as a Babysitter Sees It. And this 406 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: was all based on her experience as a live in 407 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: nanny for a wealthy family. And if her Sylvia Plath 408 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 1: talking about babysitting sounds familiar, she would later write a 409 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: poem called The Babysitters based off of this summer babysitting 410 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: as well. But listen, Sylvia Plath was one of those 411 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: girls who was like, um, there is so much hidden 412 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,680 Speaker 1: labor in this job. This is not okay. So she 413 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 1: in her column As a Baby Sitter Sees It, Plath 414 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: emphasizes the importance of parents outlining the precise job description 415 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: otherwise you will end up washing those dishes, baking and ironing. 416 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: In other words, Plath was not a fan of babysitting. Well, no, 417 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: I mean also keep in mind the cultural shift, and 418 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: I mean this is massively condensing things and glossing over 419 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff. But you once had live in help. 420 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,640 Speaker 1: Families had a maid or a butler or a cook, 421 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: someone in the home helping out, or or a live 422 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: in nanny. But when you move into the depression and afterward, 423 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 1: suddenly we're moving away from live and help being as commons. 424 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,120 Speaker 1: So you have to hire babysitters. You have to hire 425 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: this outside help. And a lot of times what came 426 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: along with that was the expectation that the girl or 427 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: the boy would be washing your dishes. Yeah, and pop 428 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: culture was aware of babysit very much. By the Saturday 429 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: Evening Post declared it a key industry. Yeah. Again, you 430 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: see a lot of push and pull between the need 431 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: for babysitters and the fear of them. So after the war, 432 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: obviously we get the baby booms. You have more children, 433 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: but in terms of population, relatively fewer twains because there 434 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 1: had been that drop off in births during the depression. 435 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: You also have the factor of families moving away from 436 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 1: all those ants and granny's in urban centers to get 437 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 1: a house in the suburbs. So suddenly you're away from 438 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: all of your childcare. Not only have you left behind 439 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 1: a culture of having live and help, but you've also 440 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 1: left behind any potential family help too. Again though, with 441 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: the culture of live and help that is exclusive from 442 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: middle and upper class people. Right, yes, yes, yes, yes, um, 443 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: But so balanced against that need to support your family 444 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: by getting a babysitter, you've also got fears that they're 445 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 1: somehow going to destroy families, or that they indicate that 446 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 1: somehow parents can't do it all themselves. Um, you've also 447 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: got fears, a lot of fears that teen girls are 448 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 1: exploiting a paternal obligation to financially provide for the family 449 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,400 Speaker 1: and pay for the sitter. So there's this anger over 450 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 1: young girls like conning men out of their hard earned 451 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 1: money and commercializing maternal virtue. But in reality, most of 452 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: these sitters weren't even earning enough to go on like 453 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: a spending spree or go see all the movies one Saturday. 454 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: But rather you had a culture of a lot of 455 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: girls saving their money up to get special clothes or 456 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: to eventually one day get a car, go to school. 457 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: They gotta get that cashmere sweat a set caroline. But 458 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: you know, but they were making between thirty five cents 459 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: in fifty five cents an hour, which translates I know, 460 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: I know, I know, inflation, but even with inflation, that 461 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: only translates to believe between like three dollars and four 462 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: fifty an hour. So yeah, they were not raking in 463 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: the dough. Um. But I think that like adults were 464 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: completely taking advantage of them. And it also speaks to 465 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 1: how we totally marginalize domestic work and childcare. In the 466 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: same year that Saturday Evening post is all like babysitting 467 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: such a big industry, you also have the film Sitting 468 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: Pretty come out, and it's about a Bobby Stocks or 469 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: babysitter who throws parties at the house where she's babysitting 470 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: and she gets fresh with the father. And this crystallizes 471 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: what's all happening in the background of this masculinity crisis 472 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: going on again, playing on those anxieties around team girls. 473 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: There's so many layers to this right because this form 474 00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: and Brunell points out who's writing the TV shows, film 475 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: scripts and novels that we're reading at this time. Who 476 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: wrote Sitting Pretty. It's dudes. Not to give too much 477 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: of a spoiler, um, but it's you know, they are 478 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: fueling these weird pop cultural based fears about teen girls 479 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: and teen babysitters. And why why is that? And she 480 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,959 Speaker 1: talks about how there is this masculinity crisis that arose 481 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: out of the depression in World War Two. It's this 482 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: convergence of changing ideals about womanhood and adolescents. And so 483 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: Foreman Brunell goes into pretty great detail about the sort 484 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: of cynical portrayals of women in general and babysitters specifically 485 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: that conveyed all of these anxieties men were feeling about 486 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: women pushing their claims for independence, all of those women 487 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: who during the war while the men were away had 488 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: to hold down the fort and get jobs or just 489 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 1: otherwise in some way deal with men not being able 490 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: to bring home the bacon. And then Foreman Brunell goes 491 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: on to write about how American men, not in general, 492 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: but specifically men creating the pop culture that we consumed, 493 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: cultivated this perception of teensitters as militants and miscreants during 494 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: the late forties and fifties, and she says that this 495 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: is all tied into fears about the decline of paternal 496 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: authority with the aim of reasserting patriarchal power. Well, so, 497 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: where did all of this talk of militancy come from? Unions. 498 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: These these girls formed unions. Kristen, Yeah, so in as 499 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:40,719 Speaker 1: babysitting had become one of the fastest growing service industries. 500 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: By the way, team girls in New Jersey, Massachusetts, in 501 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: Michigan essentially caught the labor activism bug and organized babysitter 502 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: unions because as forem and Brunell writes, they sought to 503 00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: reshape the babysitting industry, eliminate exploitation, and assert their rights 504 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: as workers. Because they also do they wanted standardized wages um. 505 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: And she writes, the teenage girls in at least three 506 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: states laid down the rules for parents. That's right, and 507 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: I love it, and I don't want to come off 508 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: with condescending. But some of these agreements that were worked 509 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: out are kind of amazing. Sitters in New Jersey, for instance, 510 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: demanded adequate heat, which is like serious, you should not 511 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: freeze your sitter to death or your children. What's going on? Um. 512 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: But they also demanded refreshments and free use of the phone, radio, 513 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: and desk. That's what I'm talking about. Get those snacks. 514 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,719 Speaker 1: Get those snacks, whether you're in a backpack or not. Um. 515 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: Massachusetts girls wrote into their contracts visits from friends and boyfriends. 516 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 1: But New Jersey girls agreed no friends or boyfriends would 517 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: come over because that was a huge fear that the 518 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: bobby socks in babysitter was just going to have parties. 519 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: That's what the films Sitting Pretty was about. That Like, 520 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 1: after the babysitter got fresh with the father and he 521 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: like spurns her advances, she just invites all of her 522 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 1: crazy bobby socks or friends over to party. I like 523 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: the idea of her inviting all of her flapper friends 524 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: over because it's just like older ladies in their their 525 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: old flapper clothes. Um. But I like the approach that 526 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 1: girls in Newton, Massachusetts took um when they won a 527 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: contract with the Auburn Dale Women's Club. So what they 528 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: did they created like a sliding scale. They demanded an 529 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: hourly rate of twenty cents before midnight and thirty five 530 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: cents after midnight, and in fifty cents per hour for 531 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: over time. In other words, of the parents said they 532 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: were going to be home by ten, but they come 533 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: home at twelve. Well, you gotta pay up. That's a 534 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: that's gonna be a dollar. Well and at the time 535 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: Men and Matt magazines with male audiences were lamenting that 536 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: these militant teens would not lift a finger outside of 537 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: their basic childcare responsibilities and that they were like resting 538 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: money from powerless couples. There was a lot of anxiety 539 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: over like who exactly is in charge here? Uh. The 540 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: Saturday Evening Post, for instance, reported that sitters everywhere are 541 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,760 Speaker 1: united in their verdict against housework. A New Jersey union 542 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:22,760 Speaker 1: explicitly said, for instance, no housework unless by special arrangement. 543 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 1: This was a huge concern among girls that you're just 544 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: gonna show up and suddenly you're gonna be eld elbow 545 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,839 Speaker 1: deep in dishes, and that was not part of the agreement. Yeah, 546 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 1: that doesn't sound fun. Uh, And that certainly did not 547 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,800 Speaker 1: sound fun to the Michigan Babysitters Union, which was called 548 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 1: one of the most militant of the sitters unions. Um. 549 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: And I wonder though, if this was not helped by 550 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,240 Speaker 1: the press, like the popular press at the time, because 551 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 1: there was even a ninety seven Life magazine cover story 552 00:34:55,480 --> 00:35:00,760 Speaker 1: all about babysitting, and it hailed the six any million 553 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 1: dollar babysitting industry. So I'm sure that adults at the 554 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,399 Speaker 1: time saw that figure. And we're like, oh, whoa, we're 555 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: being bamboozled. Yeah, there was an article not even too 556 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: long ago, anither Time or Newsweek that talked about the 557 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: you know whatever. It was like the one billion dollar 558 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,320 Speaker 1: night out or something, and it's the same thing. It's like, 559 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: it's not that these girls are making so much money 560 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 1: at each past, it's just that babysitters are in such 561 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 1: high demand that they end up getting paid on. So 562 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: you have a lot of a lot of grumpy people 563 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: in the popular press being like, uh, you know, it 564 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 1: costs me a million dollars to go see a movie 565 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: because you get the five dollar tickets and some popcorn, 566 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: but then you've got to pay the babysitter so much, 567 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: ra ra ra, and because if we were back in 568 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 1: ninety seven, it would be like we have to pay 569 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:53,320 Speaker 1: the babysitter thirty five cents an hour. But meanwhile, you 570 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,720 Speaker 1: had mentioned how men's magazines we're we're none too pleased 571 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 1: about this. But meanwhile Women's Magaze scenes stressed how sitters 572 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 1: were working with mothers to develop the union's method of operations, 573 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:11,919 Speaker 1: rules and work standards, and it pleasantly described these babysitters 574 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: unions as a cross between a woman's club and a sorority, 575 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 1: so they seemed somewhat supportive of this enterprising young women. Well, 576 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 1: because the women people are in cahoots all those women folk. Well, 577 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: why do you think we started this podcast because we're 578 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 1: in cahoots? Skidoo um. But unfortunately, the unions were short lived. 579 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: They ended up, as you might imagine, dying out amid 580 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 1: larger cultural fears about communists, a version and labor union radicalism. 581 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: So just like a larger environment of labor activism had 582 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,920 Speaker 1: given birth to these young girls unions, the fight against 583 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: them also killed their unions too. I bet none of 584 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,800 Speaker 1: our listeners predicted that in our episode on babysitters we 585 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: would somehow get around to communism six degrees of separation. 586 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,760 Speaker 1: But if we dip our toes back in pop culture 587 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:11,840 Speaker 1: things things get the stranger and stranger. In the nineties sixties, 588 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:16,800 Speaker 1: of course, with the sexual Revolution, you have babysitters becoming 589 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: the objects of masculine desire and so many magazines and movies. 590 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 1: This is also when, too, you have the rise of 591 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: babysitter urban legends like LSD taking sitters. That sounds like 592 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,399 Speaker 1: a nightmare, by the way, just like a baby's face 593 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: swirling in front of you. Can you imagine like changing 594 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,759 Speaker 1: a baby's diaper on acid. I'm just saying that that 595 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: sounds horrifying. Um. And then you also have slasher films 596 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: with lunatics coming in killing the sitters. Yeah. And you 597 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 1: also have because more and more people at this point 598 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: are moving to the suburbs, you've got all of this 599 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 1: like stranger danger on the rise, and fears about strangers 600 00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,120 Speaker 1: in our suburban midst and oh well, it's okay, the 601 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 1: dads can just take you home and drive you home. 602 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: Oh no, But then we've got more fears about the 603 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: teen girls seducing the father or vice versa, right, exactly. Yeah. 604 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 1: And so in nineteen sixty nine, amid these changing sexual 605 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 1: immoral standards, you get the film The Babysitter clever title, 606 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: which features exaggerated fantasies about a team girl and foreman. 607 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,399 Speaker 1: Brunelle talks about how it emerges from the quote new 608 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: erotic possibilities for American men excited by the sexual freedom 609 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 1: of teenage girls. And that just makes me want to 610 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: lie down and cover my head with a pillow. Yeah. 611 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 1: That's uh, that's a lot, and it really, I mean, 612 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 1: it just doesn't stop there. I mean, we see the 613 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 1: cycle over and over again in the sixties, seventies, and 614 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:51,280 Speaker 1: early eighties, with social concern fuels pop culture, which perpetuates 615 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: our anxieties about now like feminism, girlhood, and sexuality, which 616 00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 1: leads to more like slasher films and stranger danger and 617 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,760 Speaker 1: pretty much from the late sixties through the eighties, these 618 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,879 Speaker 1: are the portrayals of babysitters that we see. Either they 619 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,840 Speaker 1: are doing something to endanger your kids, or their lives 620 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: are being endangered because the call is coming from inside 621 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: the house um. Or they are an object of like 622 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 1: the husband's sexual fantasies. So by the time we get 623 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 1: to the eighties, there is no shortage of out of 624 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 1: control sitters on TV, which is reflecting ambivalence and anxiety 625 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 1: about challenges that girls and women pose to traditional social order. 626 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 1: Because I mean, by this time, too, second way feminism 627 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: has come and now come to a close second way feminism, 628 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 1: but also divorce rates skyrocketing, lots of again family based anxiety. Um. 629 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 1: Nearly half of all moms of preschool kids had jobs 630 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 1: at this point. Um. But it's funny though, that like 631 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 1: against this backdrop of like society is becoming more liberal, 632 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,399 Speaker 1: sexual mores are becoming more liberal. You've got even more 633 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,720 Speaker 1: more than ever babysitting training classes and manuals to ensure 634 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: the safety and femininity and heteronormativity of this of this industry, 635 00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 1: so to speak basically, by you have more than eight 636 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:27,320 Speaker 1: hundred safe sitter teaching sites in all fifty states, and 637 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: their motto was better sitters today, better parents tomorrow. So 638 00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 1: in that way, you're almost talking to mom, like encouraging 639 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,920 Speaker 1: her to encourage her daughter to become a babysitter. But 640 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:40,719 Speaker 1: I mean, on the other hand, at the same time, 641 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,280 Speaker 1: you've still got anxieties about teen girls. Those never go away. 642 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,719 Speaker 1: Teen girls never stop being a source of like fear 643 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,239 Speaker 1: and anxiety for parents. I just think it's fascinating that 644 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,759 Speaker 1: we're on the one hand encouraging girls to pursue this 645 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 1: like very heteronormative, feminine pursuit if they want to make money, 646 00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:58,799 Speaker 1: but on the other hand being like, oh, but don't 647 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,680 Speaker 1: be a slut. Well, I mean, and that's why it's 648 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,880 Speaker 1: notable that in the eighties you do have the launch 649 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 1: of the Babysitters Club series, because it's such a positive 650 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 1: and aspirational representation of babysitting. And this is also a 651 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 1: good point to note how completely white this entire podcast 652 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,399 Speaker 1: has been. I mean it's been like nothing but white, 653 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:31,359 Speaker 1: middle class and that is something that Foreman Brunell addresses 654 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,680 Speaker 1: briefly in her book. I mean she acknowledges like, yeah, 655 00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,800 Speaker 1: I mean a lot of this is is just focused 656 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 1: on white girls. I mean, babysitting was very much like 657 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,400 Speaker 1: a white job. And even if you look at the 658 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 1: Babysitters Club the original for well, you have Um Claudia 659 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,920 Speaker 1: I believe, who is Japanese American Um, But it's not 660 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,319 Speaker 1: until the later series that you finally get Jesse, who 661 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:59,800 Speaker 1: is the first and only African American UH babysitter in 662 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:01,440 Speaker 1: the club. And I think because of that that it 663 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: was a huge deal and people were very appreciative of 664 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,719 Speaker 1: her being in there. But in terms of the whole 665 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 1: overwhelming whiteness of babysitting, Foreman Brunell writes, the iconic sitters 666 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 1: whiteness mirrored the reality of the historical labor force, where 667 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:23,760 Speaker 1: other than caring for kin for no pay, babysitting among Hispanic, African, 668 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,920 Speaker 1: American and Asian girls was limited. And I think that 669 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 1: that ties to as well to the whole class issue 670 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,800 Speaker 1: of it. You know, you need to have that disposal 671 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,879 Speaker 1: income to even be able to employ a babysitter. Yeah, 672 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:41,840 Speaker 1: it's interesting that the babysitter that arose in popular culture, 673 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,239 Speaker 1: the image was of a white girl, but she also 674 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,920 Speaker 1: was the recipient of all of the anxiety. You didn't 675 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 1: have similar anxieties that I'm aware of about black or 676 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,319 Speaker 1: Hispanic babysitters. For instance. It was like they're at once 677 00:42:55,600 --> 00:43:00,480 Speaker 1: lauding and celebrating the white virginal babies that are but 678 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,480 Speaker 1: on the other hand having all this anxiety about what 679 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,719 Speaker 1: she could potentially mean for their families. Well, I think 680 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 1: you don't hear that about like babysitters of color because 681 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,680 Speaker 1: they probably weren't being hired by like all these white 682 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,600 Speaker 1: suburban families um as form and Bernel also writes. She says, 683 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,880 Speaker 1: as a quintessence of female adolescence of that kind of rhymes. 684 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:24,640 Speaker 1: The babysitter acted out the struggle between normalizing American girlhood 685 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,719 Speaker 1: as white, middle class and suburban and pathologizing it. So 686 00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,480 Speaker 1: it is like all of both of those things wrapped 687 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,760 Speaker 1: up together. And I love though that in the nineties, 688 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:39,120 Speaker 1: um just like how uh. During the labor movement, you 689 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,360 Speaker 1: have teen girls reflecting the larger social movements in the 690 00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,680 Speaker 1: nineties with like You've got you start, You're starting to 691 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 1: get riot girl feminism, third wave feminism. You start to 692 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:54,800 Speaker 1: see again a bunch of young babysitters UM starting to 693 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:59,440 Speaker 1: internalize notions about feminism and saying that they want to 694 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,800 Speaker 1: be paid the same wage for similarly value jobs that 695 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:04,839 Speaker 1: boys do. That there were a lot of girls at 696 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,080 Speaker 1: the time complaining that, like, oh, well, you know, boys 697 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,000 Speaker 1: are gonna get paid the same amount that I'm getting 698 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,400 Speaker 1: paid for a night of babysitting just for mowing the 699 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,600 Speaker 1: lawn for an hour. I can attest to that. I 700 00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:16,920 Speaker 1: also mode some lawns back in my day. You can 701 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:21,360 Speaker 1: make some good cash, and I have never mowed a lawn. Oh, Caroline, 702 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,160 Speaker 1: it's a listen if I'm like in the mood for it, 703 00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:28,000 Speaker 1: it's very satisfying, kind of like loading the dishwasher. Anyway, 704 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:33,280 Speaker 1: back to babysitting UM today, though there are still those 705 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,759 Speaker 1: gender issues and a gender wage kept talking about like 706 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,560 Speaker 1: equal pay. While boys make up less than three percent 707 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:46,440 Speaker 1: of all babysitters, no surprise, they still make more than girls. Granted, 708 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,799 Speaker 1: it's only fifty cents an hour more than girls, but still, 709 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 1: that's it's astonishing to me. Yeah. The Prisonomics blog speculates 710 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:58,600 Speaker 1: that perhaps boys are confident asking for more um or 711 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,160 Speaker 1: maybe because they're so a few the ones who do 712 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,959 Speaker 1: end up babysitting might have some special child care skill 713 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,480 Speaker 1: or qualification in some way um or maybe it does 714 00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,839 Speaker 1: go back to that nineteen thirties anxiety about girls being 715 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,960 Speaker 1: out of control and boys being more, you know, quietly 716 00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,480 Speaker 1: masculine and in control. I don't, I don't know, um. 717 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,640 Speaker 1: But somebody who's horrified by this is Katie Donovan, who's 718 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,520 Speaker 1: an equal pay consultant. She was writing for Elevate Network. 719 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:26,720 Speaker 1: She was horrified to learn that a lot of girls 720 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,480 Speaker 1: don't have steady rates, but they just accept whatever the 721 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:34,600 Speaker 1: parents are willing to pay, and she stresses the importance 722 00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,000 Speaker 1: of showing girls that they should know their value so 723 00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,799 Speaker 1: that they can fight and rage against that pay gap 724 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,839 Speaker 1: later in life. But the thing is, though, especially if 725 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,400 Speaker 1: we look at where we were in the depths of 726 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:52,600 Speaker 1: the recession, babysitting was booming. You can make some pretty 727 00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:58,200 Speaker 1: great money these days as a babysitter in the Boston 728 00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 1: Globe reported that our rates are soaring because in Boston 729 00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,399 Speaker 1: teen sitters got an average of ten dollars an hour, 730 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:12,120 Speaker 1: which they note is a wage that's risen nine times 731 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:16,560 Speaker 1: faster than inflation since the early eighties. Yeah, it's also 732 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:22,080 Speaker 1: worth noting that that's Massachusetts minimum wage. It's ten dollars um. 733 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,919 Speaker 1: In New York the going rate to seventeen fifty an hour, 734 00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,279 Speaker 1: which is crazy, but I guess reflects the cost of 735 00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:32,840 Speaker 1: living UM. And it's interesting to look at articles about 736 00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,320 Speaker 1: the babysitting economy. There's a lot of different things affecting it. 737 00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,520 Speaker 1: You've got Craigslist, Urban sitter dot com, and other sites 738 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,960 Speaker 1: that allow sitters to see the competitions going rates. So 739 00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:47,080 Speaker 1: that's a way, despite not having a babysitters union like 740 00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,800 Speaker 1: fifteen year olds did in the in the forties and fifties, 741 00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,719 Speaker 1: bring back the babysitters unions. It's still yeah, that could 742 00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:55,759 Speaker 1: be the next step in the babysitters club series, but 743 00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:58,520 Speaker 1: it's it's still a way to almost standardized wages UM. 744 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,160 Speaker 1: But you've also got issues around the recession and the 745 00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:06,560 Speaker 1: weak job market, meaning that more college students in college 746 00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:11,000 Speaker 1: grads are seeking the work of babysitting because at least 747 00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,480 Speaker 1: you know, babysitting is never going anywhere. People are always 748 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,680 Speaker 1: going to need some degree of childcare. And so when 749 00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,440 Speaker 1: you are as that Boston Globe article noted, when you 750 00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:24,080 Speaker 1: are more qualified, maybe you can speak another language, maybe 751 00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,200 Speaker 1: you do have specific psychological or childcare skills because you 752 00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:29,480 Speaker 1: have gone to college and you're not a fifteen year 753 00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,160 Speaker 1: old girl. Um, you can end up charging more. Well. 754 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,319 Speaker 1: In speaking of those fifteen year old girls, I think 755 00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:39,799 Speaker 1: that they are just less likely to seek out babysitting 756 00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:44,640 Speaker 1: jobs because so many teens today are slammed with extracurriculars. 757 00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:49,200 Speaker 1: You have sat preparation, I mean they're scheduled, you know, 758 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,520 Speaker 1: from from dawn till dusk so often. Um, and you 759 00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:58,600 Speaker 1: have these dual earner families. That leads to increased demand 760 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,400 Speaker 1: for sitters and all so a willingness to pay higher rates. 761 00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,680 Speaker 1: And I think also on top of that our culture 762 00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:10,560 Speaker 1: of helicopter parenting, where oh, you will pay top dollar 763 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,719 Speaker 1: to make sure that your babysitter can speak Mandarin and 764 00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,160 Speaker 1: has a doctorate in child psychology, even though your baby 765 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,479 Speaker 1: can't speak Mandarin, even though your baby is just a baby, 766 00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:21,919 Speaker 1: even though you don't have a child, She's just hanging 767 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,920 Speaker 1: out at your house for two hours. For Yeah, you're predicting, 768 00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:30,839 Speaker 1: and with the aging up of the babysitter population, at 769 00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,520 Speaker 1: least it seems like because you're probably likelier to hire 770 00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:38,080 Speaker 1: a college student than you might be the girl next door. 771 00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,839 Speaker 1: I will be curious to see if that trend continues 772 00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,919 Speaker 1: as time goes on, or if we ever will see 773 00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:48,839 Speaker 1: a resurgence of you know, kind of the neighborhood babysitters. 774 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I think this also reflects just like the 775 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,719 Speaker 1: changing patterns of how we're living these days too. We're 776 00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,600 Speaker 1: moving out of suburbia, and then are we just gonna 777 00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:02,240 Speaker 1: get more and heightened fears about older babysitter that melds 778 00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:06,120 Speaker 1: with our fears about nanny's blinking Gavin Rossdale? You know, like, 779 00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:08,400 Speaker 1: are we ever going to get away from having cultural 780 00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:12,160 Speaker 1: fears around women in sexuality? And I mean, if if 781 00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:15,560 Speaker 1: history is any guide, I would submit that that we 782 00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,320 Speaker 1: are not going to move away from that. And so 783 00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,000 Speaker 1: we just threw a lot at you. But I'm really 784 00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:26,200 Speaker 1: interested to hear from listeners about their babysitting experiences. I'm 785 00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,320 Speaker 1: interested to hear from parents. Do you have maybe some 786 00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:34,520 Speaker 1: subconscious fears about your babysitter, or have you experienced parents 787 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,440 Speaker 1: fears around teenage girls taking care of their kids? Also 788 00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,920 Speaker 1: listeners any weird babysitter stories that you have, either as 789 00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,600 Speaker 1: the babysitter or the child being babysitt definitely want to 790 00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:47,600 Speaker 1: hear those. And guys, have you babysat? I know a 791 00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:49,440 Speaker 1: lot of you have. I mean, it's like so common 792 00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,680 Speaker 1: for boys to babysit. It's ridiculous that we have strange 793 00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:56,040 Speaker 1: hang ups around that. But Mom Steph at how stuff 794 00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,239 Speaker 1: Works dot com is where you can send us all 795 00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:00,719 Speaker 1: your letters. You can all so tweet us at mom 796 00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,800 Speaker 1: Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook. And we've got a 797 00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,080 Speaker 1: couple of messages to share with you when we come 798 00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:14,440 Speaker 1: right back from a quick break. Okay, So I have 799 00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,759 Speaker 1: a letter here from Elizabeth in response to our cuddling episode. 800 00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,360 Speaker 1: She says, Ladies, I was so happy to hear you 801 00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,799 Speaker 1: call out the a sexual a romantic community on your 802 00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,920 Speaker 1: cuddling podcast. Just hearing you say my sexual orientation as 803 00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,080 Speaker 1: a community to want information from was so gratifying. I 804 00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:33,200 Speaker 1: got giddy. Anyway you wanted information on ace cuddling, let 805 00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:36,400 Speaker 1: me tell you. Myself and my straight boyfriend are champion cuddlers. 806 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,440 Speaker 1: We've been together almost six years, and since I have 807 00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,920 Speaker 1: a lot of trauma around sex, we don't have sex. 808 00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,000 Speaker 1: A lot of people might think that we therefore have 809 00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,280 Speaker 1: no physical intimacy, but nothing could be farther from the truth. 810 00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,160 Speaker 1: We use cuddling all the time as verification of our 811 00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,240 Speaker 1: closeness and just to feel really good. It is comforting 812 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,600 Speaker 1: and fun and relaxing to do with a devoted partner. 813 00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,560 Speaker 1: You asked about how this is not misleading to a partner, 814 00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:00,520 Speaker 1: and we work that out with just communicating about it. Sure, 815 00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,240 Speaker 1: sometimes he gets really turned on by a particular excellent 816 00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:05,319 Speaker 1: bout of cuddles, but he's happy to just keep such 817 00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,080 Speaker 1: things low key and may slip off to take care 818 00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:09,880 Speaker 1: of it later. He said multiple times how important the 819 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,719 Speaker 1: cuddling is to him and reaffirming our relationship and to 820 00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,880 Speaker 1: helping him have nice brain chemicals too. I think we 821 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,000 Speaker 1: use it a lot like sex, expressing our love and 822 00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,480 Speaker 1: desire to be near each other with our bodies. To 823 00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,120 Speaker 1: add another wrinkle, I have anxiety and things can get 824 00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,640 Speaker 1: pretty bad sometimes if we're at home. I asked for 825 00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:27,960 Speaker 1: cuddles to help calm my frantic brain, but that's not 826 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,759 Speaker 1: always where things get bad if we're out in public. Though, 827 00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:32,719 Speaker 1: we don't need to launch into full body cuddles in 828 00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:34,759 Speaker 1: order for me to get relief from my brain. Foot 829 00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,480 Speaker 1: cuttles or pinky cuddles have become sufficient to slow things 830 00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:39,920 Speaker 1: down enough to deal with the situation. Hooray for the 831 00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:43,680 Speaker 1: good cuddling brain chemicals. Thanks for the fantastic podcast, and 832 00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,200 Speaker 1: thanks again for including the ACE and a ROW community 833 00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:49,359 Speaker 1: in your discussion. Personally, I find being acknowledged as real 834 00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,680 Speaker 1: as one of the most important things I could hear 835 00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:54,239 Speaker 1: from you, and hopefully other media will pick up from 836 00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,359 Speaker 1: your lead. Well, thank you, Elizabeth and Elizabeth you might 837 00:51:57,440 --> 00:51:59,640 Speaker 1: be interested to head over to the Stuff I'll Never 838 00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:02,360 Speaker 1: Told YouTube channel and watched the video The A B 839 00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:06,239 Speaker 1: S The s of a Sexuality. Alicia also wrote us 840 00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:09,480 Speaker 1: about our cuddling episode, and she writes, the subject of 841 00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,600 Speaker 1: cuddling is a particularly interesting one for me because of 842 00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:14,680 Speaker 1: the way I was raised. I'm the oldest of three 843 00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:17,879 Speaker 1: siblings in my family of five. Practice family bed until 844 00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:20,560 Speaker 1: I was twelve years old, not out of necessity, we 845 00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:22,680 Speaker 1: all had our own rooms with our own beds, but 846 00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,800 Speaker 1: because we enjoyed spending time and cuddling together. I have 847 00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,160 Speaker 1: so many fond memories of Saturday morning spent cuddling, playing, 848 00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,520 Speaker 1: and even eating all in the family bed, and that 849 00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,920 Speaker 1: to this day we're still incredibly close, even now that 850 00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:36,719 Speaker 1: all of us are adults and out of the house, 851 00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:39,200 Speaker 1: and I credit much of that closeness to the time 852 00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:43,920 Speaker 1: spent in the family bed. The downside of this wonderful experience, however, 853 00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,320 Speaker 1: are the reactions I get when I tell people about it. 854 00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:50,520 Speaker 1: I get reactions from mild confusion, to disbelief or discussed. 855 00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:53,000 Speaker 1: I often avoid telling the story because I rarely get 856 00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:55,480 Speaker 1: a positive response, and especially when I revealed that the 857 00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:58,880 Speaker 1: family bed was my dad's idea, people have an especially 858 00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:00,600 Speaker 1: hard time coming to terms with the idea of a 859 00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:02,560 Speaker 1: grown man wanting to cuddle and spend time with his 860 00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:05,720 Speaker 1: children without it being creepy or sexual, and I always 861 00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:07,279 Speaker 1: feel like I have to close out the story with 862 00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,240 Speaker 1: the line and we all grew up to be totally normal, 863 00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,800 Speaker 1: well adjusted adults. Looking forward to listening to more of 864 00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:18,360 Speaker 1: your podcasts. Well. Thanks Alicia, and thanks everybody who's written 865 00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:20,600 Speaker 1: into us. Mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com 866 00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:23,160 Speaker 1: is our email address and for links to all of 867 00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:27,560 Speaker 1: our social media, videos, blogs, and podcasts, including our sources. 868 00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:30,719 Speaker 1: So you can learn more about babysitting. Head on over 869 00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:37,480 Speaker 1: to Stuff I've Never Told You dot com for more 870 00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:39,839 Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics because it how 871 00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:40,839 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com