Speaker 1: Welcome to the Solid Verbal Hell that for me, I'm
Speaker 1: a man, I'm forty. I've heard so many players say,
Speaker 1: well I want to be happy. You want to be
Speaker 1: happy for a day? Da state?
Speaker 2: Is that?
Speaker 1: Woo?
Speaker 2: Woof and Dan and Tye, welcome back to the celibrabol
Speaker 2: boys and girls. My name is ty hilden Brandt. Dan Rubinstein,
Speaker 2: the so called monster of the podcasting midway, is actually
Speaker 2: off right now. He is enjoying some much deserved time
Speaker 2: away with his family. So that means you're stuck with
Speaker 2: just me today. I promise I will do my part
Speaker 2: to make it worth your while as best I can
Speaker 2: this episode. All our episodes are driven by our good
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Speaker 2: week at least publicly. Please do consider subscribing if you're
Speaker 2: as big a college football fan as Dan and I. Also,
Speaker 2: you can get some of our bonus features some of
Speaker 2: the bonus content. If you're going out to Verbal, it's
Speaker 2: vr B A L L E R S dot com.
Speaker 2: And as we've been saying for the last couple weeks, now,
Speaker 2: you do have a few days left to enter for
Speaker 2: your chance to win that signed AJ Brown Old Miss
Speaker 2: Minnie helmet over at Solid Giveaway dot com. So today,
Speaker 2: in Dan's absence, I'm bringing on an old friend to
Speaker 2: help me deep dive the state of Clemson football. You know,
Speaker 2: Larry Williams. We've had him on this show a number
Speaker 2: of times. He is the go to guy for all
Speaker 2: things Clemson football reporting. You can find him at Tiger
Speaker 2: Illustrated dot com. He's been there for as far back
Speaker 2: as I could remember. Doesn't just an amazing job. The
Speaker 2: last we had him on this show was in twenty nineteen,
Speaker 2: which means that this interview is is long overdue because
Speaker 2: Clemson football. You know, things have gotten a little bit
Speaker 2: more interesting at Clemson over the last year or so,
Speaker 2: with Trevor Lawrence going off to the NFL, with coaching turnover,
Speaker 2: with the game changing to some extent around Sweeney. There's
Speaker 2: just a lot more to talk about now than there
Speaker 2: was back then. And Larry, of course is brilliant and
Speaker 2: can help us break all that stuff down. So, without
Speaker 2: further Ado, let's just jump right in. As always, appreciate
Speaker 2: your time and support here downloading the sOliver bol Here's
Speaker 2: Larry Williams from Tiger Illustrated. All righty, we are joined
Speaker 2: now by the one the only. Larry Williams from Tiger Illustrated,
Speaker 2: The host of the Clemson Dubcast, also lists on his
Speaker 2: Twitter bio that he is a dad, a drummer, and
Speaker 2: a griller. Larry Williams, how are you, sir, Great to
Speaker 2: have you back doing great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: A drummer, huh. Talk to me about your drumming prowess.
Speaker 1: I would say prowess probably mediocre prowess. Okay. I played
Speaker 1: in bands in college and then for the first decade
Speaker 1: of my professional existence, I was too busy to to
Speaker 1: do it other than in a in a spare bedroom
Speaker 1: with pillows and blankets over over the drums so they
Speaker 1: wouldn't wouldn't annoy the neighbors and my wife. But then
Speaker 1: about I think it was after the twenty eleven football season,
Speaker 1: I said, you know what, I think I could I
Speaker 1: could get back to doing this in a band capacity.
Speaker 1: And so since then I've done it on the side
Speaker 1: and it's it's great. It's a great creative diversion. I
Speaker 1: would highly recommend for everybody out there to have something
Speaker 1: that you do this totally separate from your your job,
Speaker 1: even though my job is pretty freaking cool, you know,
Speaker 1: best job in the world. I think it's still it's
Speaker 1: still really great to just mentally and creatively to have
Speaker 1: something apart from that that's the totally different. So I'm
Speaker 1: in two bands. One is A is a Grateful Brothers
Speaker 1: Almond Brothers cover band. Uh. Did I say the Grateful
Speaker 1: Brothers are Grateful Dead?
Speaker 2: You said Grateful Brothers, But I think it's.
Speaker 1: Called the Grateful Brothers. Yeah, Grateful Dead Almond Brothers cover band.
Speaker 1: It's this big sound, two drummers and the whole, the
Speaker 1: whole nine yards. And so that's been enormously fun because
Speaker 1: that that's right in my sort of wheelhouse of music
Speaker 1: that I love. And then the second band that I'm
Speaker 1: in is uh, it's called Amongst the Trees and it's
Speaker 1: a it's a blue, grassy, jammy, tight acoustic format with
Speaker 1: an upright bass and acoustic guitars and and I'm the
Speaker 1: only drummer for that, and so it's a lot of
Speaker 1: fun to go back and forth between the two. And
Speaker 1: so with things slowing down work wise this time of year,
Speaker 1: this is when I kind of am able to do
Speaker 1: more of than music thing, and so it's a great
Speaker 1: The rhythms of the year are are just I love
Speaker 1: them because I'm able. I mean, I love college football,
Speaker 1: I love what I do professionally, but I also love
Speaker 1: the music thing as well, and so I have a
Speaker 1: really understanding why same same who. Really she totally gets
Speaker 1: the sort of the notion of creative fulfillment, you know,
Speaker 1: and totally understanding as far as schedule goes and all that.
Speaker 1: So I'm really fortunate to be able to do what
Speaker 1: I do on both ends that professionally and creatively.
Speaker 2: That's incredible. So transitioning over into Clemson, did you go
Speaker 2: down into the home studio towards the end of last
Speaker 2: year and really pound away on the drums as things
Speaker 2: were going in a different direction, let's say, with Clemson football.
Speaker 2: Because I was, I went back and I looked to
Speaker 2: see when the last time was that we spoke, and
Speaker 2: it was twenty nineteen, and I remember very vividly in
Speaker 2: that conversation asking you what's it going to take to
Speaker 2: get this Clemson football program out of cruise control? And
Speaker 2: you sort of had an incredibleist answer, like you didn't know.
Speaker 2: Nobody really knew at that point. We still don't, right,
Speaker 2: But your two answers, if I recall correctly, were A
Speaker 2: they're gonna miss or they would have to miss on
Speaker 2: a few recruiting classes and the talent would just have
Speaker 2: to bottom out, or B it would need to take
Speaker 2: some mass turnover on the coaching side. The talent's still there.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's clearly still there, but there has been
Speaker 2: a lot of movement on the coaching front, with two
Speaker 2: coordinators now off elsewhere being head football coaches for the
Speaker 2: coming season. Assistants have left. There's been turnover in the
Speaker 2: athletic department as well, So I don't know, like, what
Speaker 2: did you go down and bang on the drum all day?
Speaker 2: Like what was your reaction to some of what happened
Speaker 2: over the course of the last few months.
Speaker 1: It was stunning. And for me, you know, as a
Speaker 1: as a I guess journalist or chronicler of a of
Speaker 1: a football program, I personally look back and go, what
Speaker 1: did I miss? You know, how could I have better?
Speaker 1: Not predicted it, but seeing the sort of the red
Speaker 1: flags coming, And I think it's fascinating when you mentioned
Speaker 1: the last time we talked was twenty nineteen, because my gosh,
Speaker 1: the changes that have occurred since then. Wow, crazy the
Speaker 1: portal and NIL, Like I mean, I remember having discussions
Speaker 1: with my subscribers, you know, Clemson fans, you know what
Speaker 1: could possibly derail this back at that time, and it's
Speaker 1: you know, I'm thinking, I, you know, maybe Ohio State
Speaker 1: or Georgia, you know, the actual teams that you're thinking of.
Speaker 1: And N I l not on my radar portal, not
Speaker 1: on my radar. And so I'm not saying that Clemson
Speaker 1: is being derailed by that, but it does for Clemson
Speaker 1: and and other schools, it just creates, it has created
Speaker 1: a whole new set of things you have to adapt
Speaker 1: to and overcome and and and and you know, sort
Speaker 1: of fashion in your culture, I guess, so to speak.
Speaker 1: But uh, I think I'm guessing. One thing we talked
Speaker 1: about back then, hopefully one thing that I should have
Speaker 1: been able to anticipate at least a little bit, is
Speaker 1: guys like Trevor Lawrence and and Deshaun Watson don't grow
Speaker 1: on trees, you know, you know. Djunnglo Lay certainly highly
Speaker 1: regarded coming in. Certainly a lot of arm talent looks
Speaker 1: like Cam Newton, but we saw this past season that uh,
Speaker 1: he was he wasn't really ready for the spotlight. I
Speaker 1: guess you could say now they had lots of other issues.
Speaker 1: It wasn't just him. They had injuries all over the place.
Speaker 1: Justin Ross wasn't healthy from the start of the season.
Speaker 1: With a foot injury, you lose Travis Etn, pretty big deal.
Speaker 1: Will Shipley showed a lot of promise early, but then
Speaker 1: he was hurt. They didn't have a center really coming
Speaker 1: into the season. Matt Bakhorse had to move over. They
Speaker 1: had injuries all over the place there, and so, you know,
Speaker 1: I think looking back, I spent the season sort of
Speaker 1: slapping myself in the face for not paying more attention
Speaker 1: to two things. One, it wasn't just Trevor Lawrence and
Speaker 1: Travis Etn that they lost, even though those were two
Speaker 1: monstrous voids to fill. It was also Amari Rodgers and
Speaker 1: Cornell Powell. To two guys I go for those four guys,
Speaker 1: Lawrence Etn, Amari Rodgers, and Cornell Powell. Those guys weren't
Speaker 1: just high level talents. They were high level figures in
Speaker 1: your program, figureheads, and they carried themselves like professionals in
Speaker 1: everything they did. And that sort of leads into the
Speaker 1: second thing. I slapped myself in the face for a
Speaker 1: lot last season. Was not paying more attention to something
Speaker 1: somebody told me last summer during the voluntary workout phase
Speaker 1: of their off season and their summer when they're sort
Speaker 1: of left of their own devices for the most part
Speaker 1: and it's really sort of up to them. I was
Speaker 1: asking somebody fairly close to the program. I heard things going,
Speaker 1: It's like, well, on defense, it's amazing, you know, one
Speaker 1: hundred percent participation and leadership at all three levels just
Speaker 1: you know, just remarkable what you see on that side
Speaker 1: of the ball. But on the offensive side it's a story.
Speaker 1: Maybe fifty percent participation in leadership really not there. And
Speaker 1: this person said, you know, he said, we're only a
Speaker 1: few injuries from eight to four, and I'm like, come on,
Speaker 1: you know, it just seemed like that seemed crazy to me,
Speaker 1: And in the moment, I'm like, wow, that's interesting. But
Speaker 1: I didn't really think about it enough until after the
Speaker 1: opening game when I see kind of weird body language
Speaker 1: on the offensive side of the ball, nobody really taking charge.
Speaker 1: Not that in the opening game being Georgia, not that
Speaker 1: leadership was the reason they didn't win that game. I mean,
Speaker 1: Georgia was obviously a terror on the defensive side of
Speaker 1: the ball. But you just I saw things last year
Speaker 1: I wasn't used to seeing, just in terms of that
Speaker 1: the chemistry aspect of it and the leader ship of
Speaker 1: things like that, and so you know, I think they
Speaker 1: have to That's probably one of their big tasks on
Speaker 1: the offensive side. Uh. This right now, moving into the
Speaker 1: into the summer, is is finding those sort of those pillars,
Speaker 1: those those those strong personalities who who not only you know,
Speaker 1: want the ball on Saturdays to do their thing and
Speaker 1: to show their talent, but the guys who are are
Speaker 1: going to carry themselves like pros and do what they
Speaker 1: have to do off the field as well. In every way.
Speaker 2: The coaching turnover thing is new for Dabbo. Certainly Brent
Speaker 2: Vennable is going to Oklahoma. That got a lot of headlines.
Speaker 2: It was always going to but you know, with turnover
Speaker 2: on the offensive side as well, some assistants sleeve, as
Speaker 2: I said earlier, turnover in the athletic department as well.
Speaker 2: How do you feel like Dabo has dealt with it?
Speaker 2: Slash will do with that now as we start building
Speaker 2: for the twenty twenty two season.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I think it's something you know the
Speaker 1: outside world when turnover happens, and it's such a such
Speaker 1: big turnover, right with the top assistant in college football
Speaker 1: leaving in Brnt Vinables and then Tony Elliott, who has
Speaker 1: been a major part of your offensive success since two
Speaker 1: thousand and fifteen, the reaction on the outside is, oh,
Speaker 1: my gosh, you know, how's he gonna It's as if
Speaker 1: he hasn't been planning for this.
Speaker 2: And came out of nowhere, right Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so I mean there have been instances in the
Speaker 1: past where where there had been instances in the past
Speaker 1: where Tony Elliott was talking to other schools, Tennessee being
Speaker 1: one of them a year before Brent Vinables came close
Speaker 1: to leaving for Auburn a year ago. So Dabo is
Speaker 1: a if he's anything, he is extremely meticulous and organized
Speaker 1: in terms of thinking about what's next and having a
Speaker 1: list and all that and and and a backup plan.
Speaker 1: You know, he knew that that Venables was there was
Speaker 1: a chance he was going to leave at some point.
Speaker 1: Even though I think Venables would have been happy ending
Speaker 1: his career as a defensive coordinator, you know, I think
Speaker 1: he the Oklahoma just happened to be the perfect opportunity.
Speaker 1: But anyway, so I think that the promotion of Brandon
Speaker 1: Streeter to Phil Elliott's spot, and then the promotion of
Speaker 1: of of Wes Goodwin and Mickey Kahn to replace Venables
Speaker 1: as co defensive coordinators, while it devoked a lot of
Speaker 1: sort of dropped drop dropped jaws on the outside from
Speaker 1: the fact that he didn't, you know, go go pluck
Speaker 1: that you know, highly regarded assistant coach from elsewhere who'd
Speaker 1: been through the wars and all that. I think he
Speaker 1: had that in mind for a while in both respects,
Speaker 1: and so I do think it's a it's a heck
Speaker 1: of an experiment because I can't think of a precedent
Speaker 1: for the good Win promotion. And this is not a
Speaker 1: criticism of it. I'm just saying this is this is
Speaker 1: just reality. I can't think of a precedent in any sport. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I'm sure there is something similar where a guy at
Speaker 1: the top of his profession being Venables as the top
Speaker 1: defensive coordinator, you could argue assistant coach in the country.
Speaker 1: He leaves and you replace him with a support staffer,
Speaker 1: you know, somebody who hasn't even been a full time
Speaker 1: assistant yet I immediately because it was off my radar
Speaker 1: too when that when that happened, I think.
Speaker 2: That's what I was going to say. Did you expect
Speaker 2: that move? No, expected a different direction.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't expect it. And that's another one of
Speaker 1: Devo's strengths is man, he can keep stuff close to
Speaker 1: the ves, like his his plan. So I wouldn't be
Speaker 1: surprised if there were if fewer than three or four
Speaker 1: people anyway anywhere knew that that was what he was
Speaker 1: considered doing. But in the in the aftermath of us
Speaker 1: learning that that was the direction he was headed in,
Speaker 1: I you know, the first thing I did was try
Speaker 1: to reach out to people who had been around Wes
Speaker 1: over the years, and man, everybody I talked to, from
Speaker 1: Kevin Steele who worked with Wes when Steele was the
Speaker 1: defensive coordinator here, to Ellis Johnson, who was with Wes
Speaker 1: when Wes was a support staff for Mississippi State, on
Speaker 1: down the line, former players, none of them batter than
Speaker 1: I at the thought of him running his own show
Speaker 1: and calling place. He was the right hand man of
Speaker 1: Brent when he was here. You know, the whole I
Speaker 1: guess concept of stealing signals whatever I mean, I call
Speaker 1: it memorization and and and preparing for every single kind
Speaker 1: of formation and tendency that I just call it supreme
Speaker 1: study and and even photographic memory, which is sort of
Speaker 1: his wheelhouse. Even though you didn't hear his name much
Speaker 1: during the success under Venables, he was right there.
Speaker 2: Are we talking photographic memory like Sean McVay style where
Speaker 2: he can like recite a play from three years ago?
Speaker 2: Are we talking to that degree?
Speaker 1: I think so, well, yeah, yeah he was. And Wes
Speaker 1: was also with the Cardinals, Arizona Cardinals, and it's extremely
Speaker 1: well thought of from people uh in in that organization.
Speaker 1: And so you know, I think that Invenables also wanted
Speaker 1: to take him to Norman too. And I asked Wes this,
Speaker 1: I said, I'd heard that it was under the same
Speaker 1: title like co defensive coordinator, you know, a high profile position.
Speaker 1: So I asked Wes, I said, what what did he
Speaker 1: What did Brent want you to do? And he said, well,
Speaker 1: I can tell you this. It wasn't the co defensive
Speaker 1: coordinator in linebackers coach at Clemson. So there's there's that
Speaker 1: Wes loves it here and the belief that I mean,
Speaker 1: if you're in his shoes. Man. The the fact that
Speaker 1: Dabo Sweeney, when he has so many options available to him,
Speaker 1: points at you and says, I believe in you, man.
Speaker 1: That is just so empowering, and then building of loyalty
Speaker 1: to Dabbo. We know that wes Is is a really
Speaker 1: good schemer, really good play caller. But there's more to
Speaker 1: it than that there, you know, there's eventibles was was so.
Speaker 3: Great at at at at being such a powerful voice
Speaker 3: in his room, you know, commanding an entire defense, uh,
Speaker 3: commanding a room in a recruits home.
Speaker 1: You know. So there are still some elements to to
Speaker 1: not just being a defensive coordinator, but be but replacing
Speaker 1: that defensive coordinator that I think that I think legitimate
Speaker 1: questions that we can that we can ask while while
Speaker 1: while not saying, oh gosh, that's a terrible hire, you know, well,
Speaker 1: but while it's being curious like how's he going to
Speaker 1: handle this or that? You know, because he's not just
Speaker 1: becoming a defensive coordinator, He's he's stepping in the just
Speaker 1: some some really massive shoes.
Speaker 2: Well he is, and you know it sort of fits
Speaker 2: with the the larger debo theme that I think we're
Speaker 2: seeing emerge, right it's the promotion from within on both
Speaker 2: the offensive and defensive side. You kind of dovetail that
Speaker 2: with his comments about the transfer portal. Is Kay's recent
Speaker 2: comments about the transfer portal, and we know that he's
Speaker 2: had this love hate thing with the transfer portal, more
Speaker 2: on the hate side, to be fair, but I think
Speaker 2: his comments have been, Look, if I go out and
Speaker 2: if I'm pulling guys in every year, what kind of trust?
Speaker 2: What kind of loyalty? What kind of sense of ownership
Speaker 2: does that give the players who are on the roster
Speaker 2: right now? You know, I know a lot of people
Speaker 2: roll their eyes, myself included with some of what Dabo
Speaker 2: says in that regard. However, it does seem as if
Speaker 2: there is a through line here, whether it's on the
Speaker 2: coaching side with regard to the talent on the roster
Speaker 2: or now the coaches on the coaching side being promoted
Speaker 2: from within.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and regarding the coaching part of it. You know,
Speaker 1: back in twenty fourteen, Chad Morris leaves for for SMU.
Speaker 1: At that point, Mars was that was the best hied
Speaker 1: debo had made, because the in twenty ten there sort
Speaker 1: of going off the rails some there six and seven,
Speaker 1: the first losing season in decades. Offense was the main problem.
Speaker 1: He goes out and identifies Chad, who had been at
Speaker 1: Tulsa for just one year, and says, I want him
Speaker 1: to be the guy. You know, Marris was a Malason disciple.
Speaker 1: It was doing what at that time was cutting edge
Speaker 1: with the hurry up, no huddle and tempo and all
Speaker 1: that stuff. And so when Maris goes to SMU, my
Speaker 1: position was was, man, you need to go out and
Speaker 1: take that one point three million dollars that you that
Speaker 1: you were paying Chad Marris, which at the time was
Speaker 1: the it was a long time ago. That was the
Speaker 1: lot a lot of that was the host paid I
Speaker 1: think assistant in the country. Go out and find some
Speaker 1: other rock star, you know who's been through some of
Speaker 1: the some of the wars, you know, a season play caller.
Speaker 1: Well no, he he looks over and says, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I'm gonna promote Tony Elliott and Jeff Scott who hadn't
Speaker 1: they hadn't called plays. And I there was lots of
Speaker 1: second guessing of that at the time. You know, I
Speaker 1: didn't totally get it, you know, And so I mean
Speaker 1: the through line that you talk about it. It goes
Speaker 1: back to the beginning of Dabo's tenure itself, because absolutely
Speaker 1: and and and taking a you know, betting on something
Speaker 1: you believe in, you know, something that's that that you've
Speaker 1: seen with your own eyes, meaning Terry down Phillips saw
Speaker 1: Dabbo with his own eyes and said, I believe in
Speaker 1: this guy, and so you know, grooming from within all that,
Speaker 1: you know, the culture fit. I do think it it
Speaker 1: applies to the portal as well. And I do think
Speaker 1: that that Debo. I think it's fair to criticize, you know,
Speaker 1: them not going into the portal more. But I do
Speaker 1: also think he gets a lot of excess heat.
Speaker 2: I am very curious to get your take on just
Speaker 2: how Dabo is dealing with some of these rapid changes
Speaker 2: that we've seen in college football. We mentioned the transfer portal,
Speaker 2: but nil he talked about that in his recent comments
Speaker 2: as well, like how is this guy doing with where
Speaker 2: we're at where the sport is going.
Speaker 1: First of all, not to get on a too big
Speaker 1: of a tangent, but one of the things that bothers
Speaker 1: me about our discourse now, and I guess I'm speaking
Speaker 1: mainly about Twitter and the reason I'm really not on
Speaker 1: it much. I don't scroll really at all, because it's
Speaker 1: just I just don't. It's not thoughtful to me, and
Speaker 1: it just doesn't really do me any good. If something happens,
Speaker 1: then I'm going to find out through other means, and
Speaker 1: even I'll include a lot some other national college football
Speaker 1: media voices. I think I'm respectfully, I have some dissent
Speaker 1: with the way they've approached this. And I'll go back
Speaker 1: to last summer and I'm as far as the legality
Speaker 1: and all that of name, image, likeness and the portal,
Speaker 1: I get it. Man, Like, sure, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people out there that are making
Speaker 1: a ton of money, you know, off these players, off
Speaker 1: what they're doing on a football field. So and the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court has spoken, you know, like there's no going back.
Speaker 2: Sure, but.
Speaker 1: I don't like this sort of intellectual dishonesty. I guess
Speaker 1: there's so many opinions now. Like twenty years ago, there
Speaker 1: were lots of reporters information people. Now there's probably ten
Speaker 1: people who have takes to every one person who's just
Speaker 1: an information.
Speaker 2: If you could harness all the takes on Internet, you'd
Speaker 2: have a renewable power supply right, purpose lady.
Speaker 1: So like whenever I read Ross Delling here of Sports Illustrated,
Speaker 1: I'm like, thank you, because he's just an information guy.
Speaker 1: He's a great reporter and that's what he does every day.
Speaker 1: And he and it's telling me something I don't know.
Speaker 1: Don't tell me. Here's why such and such as an
Speaker 1: idiot for not agreeing with your what you say. And
Speaker 1: so I think it's kind of a vicious cycle book.
Speaker 1: And it applies to what I'm talking about here with
Speaker 1: sort of the discourse on nil and the portal is
Speaker 1: if I'm a sports writer or media voice who back
Speaker 1: in the summer was saying, oh, there's nothing wrong with this.
Speaker 1: We're just talking about some Instagram endorsements and a few autographs,
Speaker 1: just some pocket money. And I dug myself in on
Speaker 1: that at that time. Then now that it is absolutely not.
Speaker 1: It's more than that, you know, with eight million dollar
Speaker 1: commitment and things like that, and for a quarterback, the
Speaker 1: Tennessee quarterback and then Texas A and M and am
Speaker 1: I going to be less willing to back down from
Speaker 1: that and to be to look at it honestly because
Speaker 1: of how much I dug myself in last summer probably so, so,
Speaker 1: you know, I think something that was not anticipated enough
Speaker 1: and something that probably the media folks, including myself, probably
Speaker 1: didn't do a good job of, is man the graduation
Speaker 1: that the academic part of this. Of all these guys
Speaker 1: in the transfer portal, their chances of earning a degree
Speaker 1: are way down just by being the portal. Even if
Speaker 1: they do end up, even even if some of these
Speaker 1: guys who don't have somewhere to land do fund somewhere
Speaker 1: to land, all the credits that you have to transfer,
Speaker 1: the progress towards degree requirements just going to be naturally
Speaker 1: harder for them to end up graduating. And uh, you
Speaker 1: know that's something nobody talked about back in the summer.
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry, I'm cynical in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: but man, I for my podcasts and other other avenues,
Speaker 1: I talked to a lot of former players, just catching
Speaker 1: up with them, like where are they now? What are
Speaker 1: their thoughts on things? And men that degree, that education.
Speaker 1: You could argue, Okay, they're all clustered in one thing
Speaker 1: and all that, and it's not worth it. It's worth something, man,
Speaker 1: education is still worth something. And then to suggest that
Speaker 1: it's just a zero zero value is just crazy. And
Speaker 1: I think that's where Dabo's where where his emphasis and
Speaker 1: beliefs have been genuine all along, is that, man, we
Speaker 1: kind of value the education and keep if we're going
Speaker 1: to do an il when we should, we should tie
Speaker 1: it to graduation and maybe put it in a trust
Speaker 1: and then make it equal. You know, where all players
Speaker 1: get the same thing, and then upon graduation is when
Speaker 1: they can get the lump some of that. That makes
Speaker 1: a lot of sense to me, Man, I don't think
Speaker 1: it's practical right now, because, like I said, the toothpaste
Speaker 1: is kind of out of the tube. Like the first
Speaker 1: guy who doesn't get you know what, he's maybe worth
Speaker 1: some superstar, he has to get the same thing as
Speaker 1: everybody else. Well, lawsuit and then the whole thing's blown
Speaker 1: up again. So anyway, I do think you know where
Speaker 1: Davo has sort of paying himself into a corner as
Speaker 1: years ago when he said, you know, if we get
Speaker 1: to pay for play, you know, I'll just do something
Speaker 1: else because that's not what this is about. Remember that, Well,
Speaker 1: that's kind of where we are. Like I know, every
Speaker 1: story I read about this, they it's almost like the
Speaker 1: obligatory paragraph clea rules forbid players signing nil deals in
Speaker 1: exchange for their service. Come on, man, Like, I think
Speaker 1: we can just delete that at this point. You know,
Speaker 1: you know, if if they don't get an offensive lineman
Speaker 1: in the portal, I think they will an interior offensive lineman.
Speaker 1: Like if they hypothetically, if they don't get one this
Speaker 1: cycle and then their offensive interior line is a train
Speaker 1: wreck in twenty twenty two, then absolutely, man, Yeah, what
Speaker 1: happened there? Why aren't you more aggressive in the portal?
Speaker 1: But I think it's kind of cherry picking to look
Speaker 1: back and say, oh, Jamison Williams and all these other players,
Speaker 1: you know, why why didn't you get in the market
Speaker 1: for those guys. I think we have to put ourselves,
Speaker 1: take ourselves to the time the decision was made and
Speaker 1: look at what Clemson had on its depth chart at
Speaker 1: whatever position it was. And I think it makes a
Speaker 1: lot more sense when you're able to do that. I
Speaker 1: know that that's not that's not fashionable now now it's
Speaker 1: it's just our impulse to just to Monday morning quarterback everything.
Speaker 1: But I do think it's fair to say that, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe they should be more active in the portal. I
Speaker 1: don't think that's a I don't think that's over the top.
Speaker 2: You know the other thing too, and you hear coaches
Speaker 2: talk about this a lot right now, Larry. It's half
Speaker 2: recruiting the portal if that's an avenue you choose to pursue,
Speaker 2: but also half recruiting your own players to stay on
Speaker 2: the roster. Yeah, because the portal is so prevalent, because
Speaker 2: it is easy to find another landing spot if you
Speaker 2: are ever so inclined. That could be one of those things.
Speaker 2: Like I would very much welcome Dabbo's commentary on what
Speaker 2: that's like. He's big on culture, he's big on trying
Speaker 2: to keep guys around. I hope for his sake there
Speaker 2: are more stories about what he is doing to try
Speaker 2: and counteract the portal, because it's clear where he stands
Speaker 2: on it, you know. And he softened his stance a
Speaker 2: bit over the last twelve to eighteen months, I think
Speaker 2: it's fair to say. And he's come out and he said, look,
Speaker 2: if it's if it's something we need to do, we'll
Speaker 2: do it. He's just not as big a proponent of
Speaker 2: it as say somebody like Oregon State, where they're bolting
Speaker 2: together a roster every off season, So I'm fascinated to
Speaker 2: see which direction things go on that front. I did
Speaker 2: want to shift gears a bit if we could into
Speaker 2: where things stand right now with spring football and with
Speaker 2: some of the questions that we've got building into the
Speaker 2: twenty two season. I will start at the very top
Speaker 2: because Dju, as you rightfully mentioned towards the beginning of
Speaker 2: our conversation, had some moments earlier in the year. Last
Speaker 2: year did improve as the season wore on, and Clemson
Speaker 2: football on the whole still had a pretty good season, Larry,
Speaker 2: it just maybe wasn't to the standard that we had
Speaker 2: grown accustomed to seeing over the past five seasons or so,
Speaker 2: certainly under Trevor Lawrence. But we do kind of have this.
Speaker 2: I don't want to call it a quarterback derby because
Speaker 2: I don't think it's a quarterback derby. But you definitely
Speaker 2: see more articles written about dj Uliangalle and kid Klubnick
Speaker 2: and Clubnick went out there in the spring game. He
Speaker 2: looked good. He definitely showcased some of the tools that
Speaker 2: I think make people excited. But like, can you help
Speaker 2: suss this out for us? There's not really a quarterback
Speaker 2: controversy at the stage.
Speaker 1: Right I mean, I guess pick your term quarterback battle.
Speaker 2: Battle like what helped me characterize where things stand on
Speaker 2: the quarterback side for Clemson.
Speaker 1: Here's my position all along since December has been if
Speaker 1: DJ is not better than he was, if he's not
Speaker 1: better moving forward then he was last season, then absolutely
Speaker 1: this is a quarterback competition, and kid Clubnick is absolutely
Speaker 1: capable of breathing down his neck. You know, now, is
Speaker 1: Dabo going to announce Club Nick the starter on day
Speaker 1: three of August camp? No, that's not the way he
Speaker 1: he does things. And you know, just looking back to
Speaker 1: the past with Trevor Lawrence overtaken Kelly Bryant in twenty
Speaker 1: eighteen and back in fourteen with Deshaun Watson overtaking Cole Stout,
Speaker 1: his sort of position and policy has been that it
Speaker 1: has to be a knockout punch for the freshman to
Speaker 1: overtake the veteran starter. And you know, you could argue
Speaker 1: he devo's that he that he used that policy to
Speaker 1: a fault with with both of those guys, particularly with Deshaun.
Speaker 1: You know, they lost a game at Florida State that
Speaker 1: you could argue, had he had he started that game,
Speaker 1: that they might have they might have won. He did
Speaker 1: start from that point forward. But anyway, I do think
Speaker 1: and and please don't misunderstand, I'm not sitting here saying, Hey,
Speaker 1: it's only a matter of time, kay, club, it's going
Speaker 1: to be the guy. It's just going to take some
Speaker 1: he's gonna have he'll he'll do it early in the
Speaker 1: regular season and then they won't look back. I don't
Speaker 1: know that. You know, DJ, what was so perplexing to
Speaker 1: everybody last year was it was it was so hard
Speaker 1: to square what we saw last season with what we
Speaker 1: saw in his two emergency starts in twenty twenty when
Speaker 1: he he was subbing for Trevor Lawrence after Trevor got
Speaker 1: COVID and looked great against Boston College, and that her name.
Speaker 1: Dad's position for most of the last season was, Hey,
Speaker 1: ain't nothing wrong with DJ. The only thing different is
Speaker 1: he doesn't have the players around him that the quarterback
Speaker 1: in two thousand. Yeah, that's absolutely totally fair. Avta, Mari Rodgers,
Speaker 1: Cornell Powell. You know, uh, but I think to an
Speaker 1: extent that was sticking up for his guy has always
Speaker 1: been something. He's he's he's he's been good at you know,
Speaker 1: he's he's in his fox hole with his quarterback when
Speaker 1: he faces criticism, and that's a that's a credit to him.
Speaker 1: DJ has some things to work on, and he's been
Speaker 1: working on him. He was two hundred and sixty five
Speaker 1: pounds at the end of last season. Yeah, yeah, he lost.
Speaker 1: He lost twenty five pounds. He was down to I
Speaker 1: think under two forty during the spring. He's also been
Speaker 1: working with private quarterbacks coach to refine his mechanics, footwork,
Speaker 1: which he really needs to refine and hone those I mean,
Speaker 1: when you're when you're the biggest dude on the field,
Speaker 1: and in high school football, even even high level high
Speaker 1: school football, all that he was in in the LA
Speaker 1: area at Bosco High School, you can you can get
Speaker 1: away with with a lot of a lot of rough
Speaker 1: edges and you can just you know, the big arm
Speaker 1: is is is you know that sort of that's the
Speaker 1: trump card. You know that that sort of supersedes everything.
Speaker 1: But in college, when you're dealing with the speed of
Speaker 1: the game and the talent being even in a lot
Speaker 1: of cases, I mean, you gotta he just he had.
Speaker 1: He needs to spend a lot of time this off
Speaker 1: season working on working on his his fundamentals, But I
Speaker 1: think it's it feels like he is committed to that.
Speaker 1: This time last year, he might not have been ready
Speaker 1: for that. He might not have been totally He might
Speaker 1: have maybe he needed to experience that, that nightmare of
Speaker 1: a season to really for it to really yeah, for
Speaker 1: the magnitude of it, the importance of it, to really
Speaker 1: to really hit.
Speaker 2: I think we'll learn a lot in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2: And it's not just that Clemson, but twenty twenty was
Speaker 2: a weird year for those of us who have covered
Speaker 2: college football for a while, Like it was unlike any
Speaker 2: year we had ever experienced before. And as a result,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one wasn't all that normal either. It was
Speaker 2: a lot more normal, but we saw a lot of
Speaker 2: weird stuff if only with eligibility, you know, we could
Speaker 2: probably list a thousand things that were just a little
Speaker 2: bit different last year. Hopefully as we get into twenty
Speaker 2: twenty two, it'll be much more of a normal cycle.
Speaker 2: And so I'm curious to see if DJU can grow,
Speaker 2: because you're right, there were issues with footwork and mechanics
Speaker 2: and balls sailing, and you know, there were plenty of
Speaker 2: conversations last year, especially going into the year because of
Speaker 2: the lack of depth at the quarterback positioned for Clemson,
Speaker 2: Like maybe Dabo should have done something on the transfer
Speaker 2: portal here to boost that quarterback depth and in the
Speaker 2: event that it doesn't work out with dju so with
Speaker 2: the benefit of a season, with the benefit of an
Speaker 2: off season. Now I'm curious to see how he does,
Speaker 2: especially now with some competition, because all you got to
Speaker 2: do is google Clemson foot ball spring game and you're
Speaker 2: going to read a lot about kid club.
Speaker 1: Nick.
Speaker 2: I know you said before that you think he's capable,
Speaker 2: but how capable because Clemson's used to seeing over the
Speaker 2: last couple of seasons really top level quarterback play with
Speaker 2: Trevor Lawrence before him, Deshaun Watson. Are we talking about
Speaker 2: to that level if he gets up and running, Like,
Speaker 2: where is his potential in your view?
Speaker 1: That's the part that I think we have to sort
Speaker 1: of distinguish, sort of separate. Is I think it's unfair.
Speaker 2: To say, oh, yeah, he's gonna do what Trevor and
Speaker 2: it's impossible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I mean, I remember, this is probably a
Speaker 1: good way to sort of illustrate it. Back in the
Speaker 1: spring of fourteen, after Deshaun enrolled early and at the time,
Speaker 1: you take yourself back to that time, it was it
Speaker 1: was extraordinary and almost unheard of for a freshman quarterback
Speaker 1: to come right in and be a star. I forgot
Speaker 1: what the numbers were, but I did some sort of
Speaker 1: study of it. And I know we've seen that in
Speaker 1: the last seven years, obviously to a Tongue, Bay Low
Speaker 1: and others, but at the time it was like unheard of.
Speaker 1: And so I was still proceeding under this notion that Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: you might avoid a red shirt, you know, and we'll
Speaker 1: see it's hard to transition to college, you know. And
Speaker 1: then somebody close to the team at one point it's like, Larry,
Speaker 1: this dude is the best quarterback on the field and
Speaker 1: it's not even close. And I'm like, oh, you know.
Speaker 1: And so then fast forward and obviously everybody knows what happened.
Speaker 1: He turned into Superman in pretty short order. So then
Speaker 1: in the spring of eighteen, I was at a one
Speaker 1: of my daughter's softball games, youth softball games, and Brent Vinnables,
Speaker 1: his daughter's played in the same league. And this is
Speaker 1: during that spring of eighteen, and we had, I guess
Speaker 1: our teams were playing against each other, and so I
Speaker 1: was just sitting there chatting with him, small talk obviously,
Speaker 1: didn't have a pen and paper off the Yeah, just like,
Speaker 1: hey man, what do you what do you think of
Speaker 1: what you've seen so far? And blah blah blah, Yeah, good,
Speaker 1: good good. So what do you think of number sixteen?
Speaker 1: He goes his eyes just got really big. He says,
Speaker 1: best freshman I've ever seen, except for maybe Adrian Peterson. Wow,
Speaker 1: And I'm my holy crape. And he said, I'll tell
Speaker 1: you what, We're not going to have the same problems
Speaker 1: passing this year we had last year, meaning twenty seventeen,
Speaker 1: the transition between you know, from Deshaun to Kelly Bryant.
Speaker 1: Kelly Bryant pretty good quarterback, but certainly not in that
Speaker 1: in that realm. But so that's when I just started writing, Hey, folks,
Speaker 1: it's only a matter of time before.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Anyway, I say all that to say I have not
Speaker 1: heard I just haven't heard Cade being referred to with
Speaker 1: the same reverence I guess. And that's totally fine.
Speaker 2: Like most people aren't.
Speaker 1: To be fair, doesn't mean like oh my gosh, kay
Speaker 1: klubis a buzz. It just means He's probably not those
Speaker 1: two guys, which goes back to our I think the
Speaker 1: lesson we talked about at the start of this of
Speaker 1: this interview is that the one thing we've learned over
Speaker 1: the last couple of years is man, not everybody. Those
Speaker 1: quarterbacks just don't grow in trees. But but I do.
Speaker 1: People do tell me, hey, man, DJ better look out
Speaker 1: because Kate Is is coming. You know, Kate is is.
Speaker 1: He's got to put on some weight. He's he's pretty skinny,
Speaker 1: got a thick and thick in his his his stature.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he necessarily has a cannon for
Speaker 1: an arm, but he did it at the highest level
Speaker 1: in Texas and and between the ears. Like this kid,
Speaker 1: he's hanging out with seniors and juniors, everybody on the team.
Speaker 1: He's a He's at all the minor sport events at Clemson.
Speaker 1: I saw him at a high school basketball game at
Speaker 1: the local high school here Daniel. He was cheering on
Speaker 1: four of his freshman class members who are who aren't
Speaker 1: in enrolls yet but who were finishing up their senior
Speaker 1: seasons of basketball, including one of Dabo's sons. And he's
Speaker 1: like arguing with yelling at the ress, like not in
Speaker 1: an innoxious way, but like he's into it. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: And like for a kid to to be to basically
Speaker 1: come to a different world, you know, he's from Texas
Speaker 1: and to immediately ingratiate himself with everybody and just to
Speaker 1: be right at home. I think that's important. And I
Speaker 1: think when we're talking to last year, you know, leadership issues,
Speaker 1: not that it was all DJ, but DJ's was real quiet.
Speaker 1: You look at him on the sideline, he's just sort
Speaker 1: of standing off, you know, to him, to him else.
Speaker 1: That's a factor having somebody come in who's a galvanizing presence.
Speaker 1: And so in addition to a very truly talented quarterback.
Speaker 1: So is he Deshaun or Trevor. No, that's unfair to
Speaker 1: I think until further notice to sort of put him
Speaker 1: put him on that level as an early enrolled true freshman.
Speaker 1: But is he a special talent, a special person? Every
Speaker 1: indication points to that.
Speaker 2: I could talk to you all morning, Larry, I won't
Speaker 2: eat up all your time talking Clemson football. But before
Speaker 2: I let you go, I did want to at least
Speaker 2: address any questions that you may have with respect to
Speaker 2: Clemson moving forward. Now in twenty twenty two spring football.
Speaker 2: It's like the carrot, you know, It's just it's dangling
Speaker 2: there and you can only get so much from it.
Speaker 2: What we saw in the Clemson spring game was that
Speaker 2: defense was dominant, which is probably going to continue being
Speaker 2: a theme, hopefully continue being a theme for this football team.
Speaker 2: It certainly was a deal last year as well. As
Speaker 2: you look forward now just based on maybe what you
Speaker 2: saw in spring, maybe what you didn't see in spring,
Speaker 2: but you still have questions around what what should we
Speaker 2: as maybe non Clemson people keep our attention on as
Speaker 2: we move through the summer months. Where are your big
Speaker 2: question marks for this team now going into the new season.
Speaker 1: So spring is normally comparatively irrelevant. You know that was
Speaker 1: amplified for Clemson this spring ten times because they were
Speaker 1: just hammered with injuries. A lot of surgeries that happened,
Speaker 1: you know, from injuries last season. That of the surgeries
Speaker 1: that occurred after the season that kept a number of
Speaker 1: those guys from being able to PAP. But then they
Speaker 1: had injuries during spring practice. Adam Randall, the freshman receiver
Speaker 1: who they think a lot of they thought he was
Speaker 1: gonna be able to help him right away, he tours
Speaker 1: acl and on the offensive side of the ball. That's
Speaker 1: why it was just hard to really get a read
Speaker 1: on what we saw in the spring game. Like, you know,
Speaker 1: I heard people com play and well, there are no
Speaker 1: vertical throws, and what happened to this exciting new offense
Speaker 1: we're supposed to get it? Well, it's kind of hard
Speaker 1: to It's kind of hard to throw a vertical pass
Speaker 1: when you have like zero point five seconds to throw
Speaker 1: it before you have a defensive end there and down
Speaker 1: on you. So I look at August camp as being
Speaker 1: like really captivating, because that's when it's really game on
Speaker 1: for a lot of these competitions, and when you're going
Speaker 1: to have the whole roster together. Will Shipley'll be back.
Speaker 1: He wasn't able to practice. Kobe Pace was out as well,
Speaker 1: Brian Berzi was out, you know, Trey Williams and other
Speaker 1: really good interior defensive lineman was out. Lannon Xander's safety
Speaker 1: was at I could go on down the list, but
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that things are going to feel big
Speaker 1: and important come August in a way that really wasn't
Speaker 1: the case at all during the spring. I'm interested to
Speaker 1: see what the offense looks like schematically strategically, I know
Speaker 1: that Brandon Streeter is going to try to get back
Speaker 1: to doing more tempo stuff. You know, that was kind
Speaker 1: of a calculated decision they made when Elliott and Jeff
Speaker 1: Scott took over. They didn't want tempo to be as
Speaker 1: much their brand as it was under Chad Morris. They
Speaker 1: basically wanted to focus more on getting into the right
Speaker 1: play and saying, our guys are better than yours, right.
Speaker 1: So not that they didn't do tempo. They did it
Speaker 1: when it suited them, including in some high profile playoffs
Speaker 1: and championship victories. But I'm interested to see what things
Speaker 1: look like under Brandon Streeter. Their passing game has to
Speaker 1: get rejuvenated. One interesting takeaway from talking to the coaches
Speaker 1: during the spring has been that they some sort of
Speaker 1: self study of recent years and trends they spotted was
Speaker 1: was not really throwing to the middle of the field
Speaker 1: as much as they probably should have. So I think
Speaker 1: that they're going to introduce some new concepts probably and
Speaker 1: while on this kind of sounds contradictory, while also pairing
Speaker 1: it down and eliminating some of the some of the clutter.
Speaker 1: Kyle Richardson, who's the first year tight ends coach, is
Speaker 1: also the passing game coordinator, and so it's conditioning to
Speaker 1: see how that sort of meshes and develops moving forward
Speaker 1: as they try to, you know, bring the flash back
Speaker 1: to this, to this offense. I mean talking about twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1: Like what's wild is how much has changed on the field.
Speaker 1: We talked about off the field with nil and portal
Speaker 1: and all that, Like in January of nineteen, we're sitting
Speaker 1: here saying, can anybody keep up with Clemson? Has Clemson
Speaker 1: eclipsed Alabama? You know after forty four to sixteen, Now
Speaker 1: a few years later, you know, Ohio State and Alabama
Speaker 1: are much more known for the receiving prowess than Clemson
Speaker 1: has been the last could not just last year, but
Speaker 1: year before as well, you know, can they get back
Speaker 1: to what they're used to and that is, you know,
Speaker 1: a prolific offense being largely defined by throwing and catching,
Speaker 1: you know, really high level throwing and catching. So we'll see.
Speaker 2: I'm excited to see more of will Shipley. I know
Speaker 2: he was Nicknamp. We did a show a couple of
Speaker 2: weeks back where we were looking at Heisman odds not
Speaker 2: to say that either Dan or I are big proponents,
Speaker 2: are huge fans of the Heisman, but odds are always
Speaker 2: interesting this time of year. Will Shipley was pretty low.
Speaker 2: He's a versatile kid. He was nicked up. I'm curious
Speaker 2: to see kind of in the next revision of Clemson's offense,
Speaker 2: how how they use him. You know. With that being said,
Speaker 2: what what should people know about Will Shipley? Who may
Speaker 2: not be familiar with his skill set.
Speaker 1: Man, he can do it all. I mean, just kind
Speaker 1: of a breathtaking talent. And I think it's wild that
Speaker 1: you're able to lose Traves et n the best running
Speaker 1: back in school history, best running back in acc history,
Speaker 1: arguably the best playmaker in college football, and replace him
Speaker 1: with Will Shipley. I'm you're speaking my language when you
Speaker 1: talk about you're not you'all not being big fans of
Speaker 1: the Heisman. I'm not either, But for the if you're
Speaker 1: coming up with lists, sort of the case for him
Speaker 1: would be he's going to touch the ball a lot,
Speaker 1: not just on offense, but in a in a return
Speaker 1: capacity as well. That's one thing devo Is has been
Speaker 1: good at since he took over wash And as head
Speaker 1: coach in eight was one of his first initiatives was,
Speaker 1: hey man, we're gonna get our best players the ball
Speaker 1: because C. J. Spiller under the previous regime, C J.
Speaker 1: Spiller and James Davis weren't getting it near enough. And
Speaker 1: so I don't think you'll see a shortage of of
Speaker 1: touches for him. Just a a super talent who's really
Speaker 1: good in the open field, a physical runner who can
Speaker 1: who can lower his shoulder and and move the pile.
Speaker 1: But just the consummate competitor. What's interesting is that off
Speaker 1: the field, he's he's uh, super thoughtful and and uh
Speaker 1: he's a he's he's really involved with his faith and
Speaker 1: and and in the church and all that. Not that
Speaker 1: not that you can't be a good football player if
Speaker 1: you're sure, uh you know, if you're really spiritual. But
Speaker 1: people say he just turns into a different person once
Speaker 1: he gets on the fields, this cutthroat competitor, and he
Speaker 1: was instantly one of the team's leaders when he when
Speaker 1: he arrived last year, by the he was an early
Speaker 1: enroll league, but by the summer debo was was was
Speaker 1: including his name is as one of the one of
Speaker 1: the main leader figurehead types and that might in hindsight
Speaker 1: speak some to the void of leadership on the offensive
Speaker 1: side of the ball that we were talking about. But man,
Speaker 1: it's hard to find a better package, I think than
Speaker 1: than will Shipley, just as a person, as a as
Speaker 1: a competitor, and as a a person that you put
Speaker 1: as an asset to your to your entire team who
Speaker 1: there are no frills with him, So it's going to
Speaker 1: be fun to watch, and if he can stay healthy,
Speaker 1: I certainly think he's he's one of those one of
Speaker 1: those elite skill player talents in college football. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean the odds, the odds that I saw were
Speaker 2: back in January. I'm sure they've been updated and I'm
Speaker 2: sure they've come down, but at the time he had
Speaker 2: the same odds as Drew Pine, who is Notre Dame's
Speaker 2: probable backup quarterback. And I was just like, Okay, that
Speaker 2: seems like a seems like an interesting value proposition. If
Speaker 2: that's your cup of tea. Larry Williams Tiger illustrated. Like
Speaker 2: I said, I could talk to you all day, Clemson dubcast.
Speaker 2: What else can we promote for you? What else are
Speaker 2: you working on over the next couple months here As
Speaker 2: we enjoy the I don't know, last couple of weeks
Speaker 2: and months of some degree of freedom before we really
Speaker 2: dive back in to this whole college football thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the one of the projects that we
Speaker 1: just started last week and had been planning for a
Speaker 1: couple of months. We started it two days after the
Speaker 1: spring game was were calling it the Clemson Thirty and
Speaker 1: I've am in the process of reaching out to thirty
Speaker 1: prominent former ball players and even some prominent guys who
Speaker 1: never played for Clemson, including Jeff frank Corps who was
Speaker 1: headed to Clemson but then Major League Baseball intervened. And
Speaker 1: what I love about this sort of the theme of
Speaker 1: this is we're sort of getting out of the way.
Speaker 1: We're asking them three questions, that's it. One is what
Speaker 1: are you up to now? Two is what are your
Speaker 1: thoughts on the state of the program with Dabo? And
Speaker 1: then three, this is the most interesting your thoughts on
Speaker 1: the current landscape of college athletics with Namo's likeness and
Speaker 1: the portal. And I think it's opened a lot of
Speaker 1: people's eyes so far in that I think almost everybody
Speaker 1: we've surveyed has said, yeah, these guys should be getting
Speaker 1: some money, but where there is some nuance. Is I
Speaker 1: think they're also learned about where things are headed in
Speaker 1: terms of the portal because they can put themselves in
Speaker 1: their back in their eighteen nineteen year old shoes and
Speaker 1: oh god, the coach, just the coach just chewed me out.
Speaker 1: I'm a fourth day of August camp. I'm going somewhere else,
Speaker 1: you know. And the educational part of it, which I
Speaker 1: referred to earlier, like these most of these former athletes
Speaker 1: are are are are very passionate about the role of
Speaker 1: education and the importance of education to a lot of
Speaker 1: these kids. Anyway, not to go off on that, but
Speaker 1: if you're a Clemson fan out there and you're not
Speaker 1: already a subscriber, this is a really cool sort of
Speaker 1: gear shift from the day to day of a season
Speaker 1: in spring practice, sort of kicking back and catching up
Speaker 1: with a lot of these a lot of these really
Speaker 1: interesting personalities for former players from from years past.
Speaker 2: Well, that's super cool, Larry. Look, I've taken up so
Speaker 2: much of your time.
Speaker 1: It's early, man.
Speaker 2: I appreciate you hopping on with me, sharing some of
Speaker 2: your insight. We're always a little bit smarter for it.
Speaker 2: So we'll have to invite you back again sometimes soon
Speaker 2: as we get closer to the season and see how
Speaker 2: this stuff is shaking out. But in the meantime, thank
Speaker 2: you as always.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys are great and it's a pleasure. I've
Speaker 1: always respected what y'all have done, and anytime at all,
Speaker 1: man it's not I'll jump with a chance to visit
Speaker 1: with you also, so feel free to reach back out.
Speaker 2: All righty, there you go. Big thanks again to Larry
Speaker 2: Williams for his time and insight today. Please go on
Speaker 2: out and check him out at Tiger Illustrated dot com.
Speaker 2: As for us, Dan's going to be back next week.
Speaker 2: We'll continue doing the thing, continue going through spring games,
Speaker 2: doing our Spring Snapshot episodes to try and keep you
Speaker 2: up to speed with what's going on in and around
Speaker 2: the world of college football as best we can. But
Speaker 2: in the meantime, yeah, I think that's all we have
Speaker 2: for today. Again, big thanks for downloading for supporting the show.
Speaker 2: My name is Tye hilden Brandt. Thank you as always,
Speaker 2: and stay solid.