1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: The podcast playground. He's taking a Walk with Buss Night. Well, Hi, 2 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: I'm Buzznight, the host of the Taking a Walk podcast series, 3 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:22,159 Speaker 1: and we're in lovely Marblehead, Massachusetts, and here with a 4 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: guy who has really a lengthy list here. It's going 5 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: to take me days, probably to go through his storied career. 6 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: Mister Jim Coppersmith, one of Boston's most admired television executives 7 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 1: for many years, most remembered for his time in Boston 8 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: as leader of Channel five WCVB, where he was the 9 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:52,919 Speaker 1: vice president and general manager nineteen eighty two to nineteen 10 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: eighty nine and also the GM from nineteen ninety to 11 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: ninety four. Also worked at what is now WHDHTV for 12 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: a number of years and many awards, So many awards, 13 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: mister Coppersmith, it would take me days to go through it. 14 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: If you want, I'll go through every one of the awards. 15 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: Would you like me to? I don't like you well 16 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: enough to spend days, so just do the reader's digest version. 17 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: Past chairman of the board of Emerson College, guilty Guilty 18 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: as charge? Are you still currently vice chairman of Boston 19 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: based public relations and marketing company Raskie and Associates. No, 20 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 1: I'm completely retired. I did serve on a lot of 21 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: boards of public companies, and today I have one very 22 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: small but a very enjoyable consultancy with a company called 23 00:01:53,440 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: Reflex Sliding. And I just make myself available to the 24 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: chief executive for whatever he wants to talk about. And 25 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: he is, uh he thinks it's of some value. And 26 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: I let him continue to delude himself that way, so 27 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 1: you don't feel it's of any value what you give 28 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: him anything he's ever asked me. I would tell him 29 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: for nothing, but uh he is uh of the ethic 30 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 1: that uh uh someone should be paid for their wisdom, 31 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: So I let him. That's nice. I like that. Well, 32 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: it's so nice to uh meet you. Uh. I appreciate 33 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: the time here and uh, well you're very welcome and 34 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: uh and uh I'm here to answer whatever questions you 35 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: have with the caveat that if I can't tell you 36 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: the truth, I just won't answer. Well, we had a 37 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: nice lunch, first of all, and uh a nice tune 38 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: of sandwich, uh delicious, uh sandwich from uh some DELI 39 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: I don't know something Evans. Evans it's r very near 40 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: my house, and uh it's a very good New York 41 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: style delicatest and and yes it was, Uh it was 42 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: delicious and uh and I enjoyed it a lot. Would 43 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: you say, uh, we had some wat chused duh potato chips? Uh? 44 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: Do you consider pringles? Uh? Actually potato chips? Well not really? Uh? 45 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: The god you know, the uh potato chips you should 46 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: kill you and the pringles you know? Uh, no one's 47 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: ever died for meeting a pringle that we know we 48 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: know of, right, but it needs to be stated. Anyone 49 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: who would accept pringles if a potato chip needs to 50 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: get their head examined, don't you think, Well, I don't 51 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: buy them. It's a rule unless there's nothing else. But 52 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: uh uh I like uh blazed potato chips if you 53 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: want to know the truth, and and w another one. 54 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: I forget the name of a quist or Croasper or 55 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: something has a very short name. They're very good potato 56 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: chips to they're extra crispy ones. You know, I've thought 57 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: maybe doing a podcast just on potato chips. Can you 58 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: give me some business business advice on that idea? Well, 59 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: I'd have to do a lot of research at your expense. 60 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: Let's do it, Okay, I I like it. So I 61 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: want to walk through your career before you came to Boston. 62 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: You started out obviously you you come from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Actually, 63 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: I was grew up in Johnstown, Pennsylvania, which when I 64 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: was a kid was a very thriving steel mining uh 65 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: steel mill town uh uh where Bethalem steel mills worked 66 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: three shifts a day and everybody was working, and it 67 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: was a great place to grow up. And now it's 68 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: uh just been devastated. Uh. It is a a blighted 69 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: town of maybe twenty two twenty five thousand people, was 70 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: just designated the poorest small city uh in America. But 71 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: my dad owned a parking garage uh, and I worked 72 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: there before school, after school on Saturdays, and if the 73 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: night washerman didn't show up, I did it. That's where 74 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: I developed a work ethic. I went to the University 75 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: of Pittsburgh and served in the Navy for two years 76 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 1: and came out and went to work out of Pittsburgh 77 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: advertising agency and did that well until I was thirty 78 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: or so. And then I met my wife and fell 79 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: in love, got married and realized I was going to 80 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: need more money and a fellow who called on me 81 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: from Katie K Television was shocked when I asked him 82 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: how much he made, cause I was making six hundred 83 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 1: dollars a month and he said, well, he said, lu 84 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 1: last year I made seventeen thousand, and this year I'm 85 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 1: gonna make twenty two thousand. I knew I was smarter 86 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: than this guy. I said, well, how do you make 87 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: so much money? He said, well, it's very simple, he said, 88 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 1: every time I sell something to give me some money. 89 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,239 Speaker 1: I said, so that's how it works. So I tried 90 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: really hard for a long time to to get a 91 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: job in television as a salesman, and finally I got 92 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: a job at WTTCH in Washington and as a sales 93 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: trainee at he's thirty two, and I was paid the 94 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: princely sum of a hundred and sixty five dollars a 95 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: week to learn the business, and I was thrilled to 96 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: get it. We moved to Washington, and I'll tell you 97 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: an interesting story. I first week on the job, I 98 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: was wandering around introducing myself to agency's and I went 99 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: up to an agency and a woman said to me, 100 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're here. I've got an order for you, 101 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: and I said, missus Rader, that was her name, Rhoda Raider. 102 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: I said, I don't know even how to take an order. 103 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: I said, I'm new. She said, don't worry, I'll fill 104 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: it out for you. She filled it out for me. 105 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: It was five thousand dollars a week for thirteen weeks. 106 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: I brought it back to the station. The general manager's 107 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: name was Larry Fraberg, a man who is to this 108 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: day one of my heroes. His secretary said her name 109 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: was Cheerful Thornhill. Mister Fraberg wants to see you, and 110 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: I thought, oh my god, I'm going to get fired. 111 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: I walked in his office and he said, Jim, he said, 112 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: this is quite a new usual. Uh. He said, to 113 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: get an order of this size first week? He said, 114 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: to tell me what was the what was the genesis 115 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: of that? Sam. I had a moment of decision making 116 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: to do, and I said, mister Freyberg, let me be 117 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: honest with you. I was wandering around K Street. Missus 118 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: Rader threw it out the window and it hit me 119 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: on the fucking head, and he came out from behind 120 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: his desk. He gave me a kiss, and he said 121 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: you're gonna be great. A long story somewhat shortened. UH. 122 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: He became a very good friend and a very good mentor. 123 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:52,439 Speaker 1: He then moved to UH New York as general manager 124 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: of WNW. In New York, I progressed with the company 125 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: where I was sales manager at or Los Angeles station. 126 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: He brought me to New York as his sales manager 127 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: and I left that job to come to Boston as 128 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: manager of Channel seven here in Boston, and he became 129 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: president of Metromedia Television and hired me to replace him 130 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: as general manager of the flagship station for Metromedia, which 131 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: was Channel five in New York. When the Metromedia bought 132 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:32,959 Speaker 1: wcvb UH, John Klugey, who was the chairman, h asked 133 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: me if I would consider going up there to run it, 134 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: coming to channel five, and it was then the premier 135 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: station in the United States. I mean I I got 136 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: a lot of credit I didn't deserve. All I did 137 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: was I didn't mess it up. But Bob Bennett, who 138 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: was my predecessor there was the guy who really made 139 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: that station what it what it was and and and 140 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: what it is, which is I would have to say, 141 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: a crown jewel of American television stations. I was involved 142 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: with some of the stuff. Chronicle is now in its 143 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 1: fortieth year and most successful local program in America. And 144 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: of course that was back in the days when the 145 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: news was the news, and they had a very fine news. 146 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: One incident that I recall was the Boston Marathon. We 147 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: always carried the Boston Marathon. John Hancock was the sponsor, 148 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: and one day the ben CEO of Hancock called me 149 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: up and said, I'm giving exclusive rights to the marathon 150 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: to WBZ and I said, you can do whatever you want, 151 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: but we are covering the marathon. He said, no, no, 152 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: I'm the sponsor. I said, fine, but the marathon starts 153 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: on public streets, it's run on public streets, and it 154 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: concludes on public streets. It is nothing more than a 155 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: raid at a faster pace, and we are going to 156 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 1: carry it. He said, no, you're not. We sued him 157 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: and prevailed, and we had, as always the great Check 158 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: Curtis and Natalie Jacobson hosting it. We did our own 159 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: version of it and it finished a strong number one 160 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: in the ratings. So you had a knack for knowing 161 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: how to stay out of the way and let people 162 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: do the job. Is that what I'm really hearing? Yes? 163 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: And I also had a knack for getting in trouble 164 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: because the day after the marathon that fellow canceled the 165 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty thousand dollars order that he had 166 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: with us. But small Yes, Well, actually it's a blessing 167 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:49,319 Speaker 1: that comes from working for good people. They understood and 168 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: approved of it, and in the long range it was 169 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: very tell anigold story. We were carrying the World Series. 170 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: One of the games that in the World Series was 171 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: on the same night as the Boston mayoral election, and 172 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: I called up ABC and said, you're going to have 173 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: to find somebody else to run the game because we 174 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: are covering the mayoral election. Jim Duffy was the president 175 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: of ABC. He said, come into New York. I'd like 176 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: to see you. I flew into New York. He said, 177 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: the only reason I asked you to come in is 178 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:30,079 Speaker 1: I wanted to see in person. And he used the 179 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: term that was, I really can't say who would cancel 180 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: the World Series for an election? Well, I said, you're 181 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: looking at him. We're doing it. We are. We have 182 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: a reputation for news and politics, and frankly, we think 183 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: the world will in my world, will remember this election 184 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: a lot more than they'll remember the World Series. So 185 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: Channel fifty six carried that game, and I wear as 186 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: a badge of pride, if not honor the fact that 187 00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: we dumped a World Series game to carry on a 188 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: a local election. I don't think there are too many 189 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: guys who can say that. I doubt that there's anybody 190 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: who could. And it just shows the confidence they had 191 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: it you obviously you how did you build that confidence? 192 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: Was it cause of your revenues that were always on top? 193 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: Or well were they? Was it just your handsome looks? No, 194 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: well it certainly wasn't that. But I was a very 195 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: good operator and I had many many virtues. Modesty is 196 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: not one of them. But uh, I was a very 197 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: good operator. And I never worried about losing my job 198 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: because my phone rang a lot, and uh so I 199 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: liked my job. I was running the place. They let 200 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: me run it. You backed it up with the results 201 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: that was really did? Let me put it this way? 202 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,959 Speaker 1: You know, we did a hundred million dollars worth of 203 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: business and sixty million of it was profit. Wow, And uh, 204 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: don't you have chills saying not now? An't that fun 205 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: to say. No, I I I feel I wasn't paid 206 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: it not but but uh uh but it was a 207 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 1: great life and I wouldn't have had it. I wouldn't 208 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: have had any other career. Uh uh I I could 209 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: have done better, but I could have done a hell 210 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: of a lot worse. No complaints. Did you always have 211 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: a pipeline to the big the big cheeses in the 212 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: companies that you worked for, like the people at the top, 213 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: Did you always have access to them? John Clue, the chairman, 214 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: liked me a lot. Uh and uh because I he 215 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: always got a straight answer from me. And uh, I'll 216 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: never forget one time he he asked me to come 217 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: to lunch. He had this doctor he wanted uh me 218 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: to put on WU one of our shows. And John 219 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: hardly ever spoke above a whispered and he said, you know, 220 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: he said, uh, I had this terrible pain in my 221 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: head and he cured me. I said, well, he probably 222 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: told you were sitting on your wallet when nobody talked 223 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: to him that way. So yeah, I mean, look, I 224 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: had the gift of personality, and I have this theory 225 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: about managers and leaders. You can go in any library 226 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: you want and there's hundreds of books on management. I 227 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: defy you to find one book on how to become 228 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: a leader. There are books about leaders, but leadership is 229 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: not a science, it's an art. Management is the science 230 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: of getting things done. Leadership is the art of getting 231 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: people to do things. You know, it was said that 232 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: when Neville Chamberlain spoke, everyone applauded, but when Winston Churchill spoke, 233 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: everyone marched. So if you're a leader, you just do 234 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: a couple of things nicely. And one of the things 235 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: that I learned is the best investment you can make 236 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: and a human being is to give that person a compliment, 237 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: catch them doing something right. It pays huge dividends, it 238 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: costs nothing. And if you're the type of manager who 239 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: goes around catching people doing things wrong, they're not gonna 240 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: like you. If they're not gonna like you, they're certainly 241 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: not gonna love you. And if they're not gonna love you, 242 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: they're certainly not gonna respect you. So if you have vision, 243 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: you have to recognize that the reason you have vision 244 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: is because you stand on the shoulders of giants. And 245 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: I always try to hire giants. You crisscrossed with an 246 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: old boss of mind over time when you were working 247 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: for mister Kluki and that was a gentleman by the 248 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: name of for milk Karmezan See, I gotta tell you 249 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: a great story about Mel and and he knew the 250 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: things very well that you just described in terms of 251 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:13,199 Speaker 1: getting people to do what was necessary. I was general 252 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: sales manager of WNEW Television when Mel was general sales 253 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: manager of WNEW Radio. We used to talk on the 254 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: phone all the time. And he said to me, I 255 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: can't I can't stay in this place. He said, I'm 256 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: I'm I'm quitting, he said. He said, Uh, I'm quitting. 257 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna start my own. I'm gonna get a radio station. 258 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: I said, well, are you crazy? Are you sick? I mean, 259 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: you get paid a fortune. Uh you have a beautiful office, 260 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: you have a nice you have a secretary. Uh y, 261 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: they pay your country club dues, they give you a 262 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: free car. You have this huge expense account. I I said, 263 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: why would anybody wanna leave that? And he said to me, 264 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 1: you are the dumbest man I've ever spoken to in 265 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: my life. Well, you know he uh. He became Melcharmazan, 266 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: he who who started serious radio and and uh owns 267 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: Howard Stern and uh, and I guess Mel is probably 268 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: worth three or four hundred million dollars right now. And uh, 269 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 1: he realized the one thing that I never realized, and 270 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:24,880 Speaker 1: that is equity is more important than income. And he 271 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: he he went for equity. But he's a great guy. 272 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: Matter of fact, Meil donated ten thousand dollars to my 273 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 1: scholarship fund at Emerson. So I like him a lot. Yeah, 274 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: he Uh, he's a good man and you always knew 275 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: where you stood with him. There was never any gray 276 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: area whatsoever. Listen, I ha I. I have a friend 277 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 1: who worked for him and he and uh I went 278 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 1: up uh when he was head of the uh CBS 279 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 1: stations and this guy said to him, Mel, I'm sorry, 280 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: there's just no activity in the market. And Mel said, 281 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 1: were there any ads in in the Boston Globe today? 282 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: And of course he said, well, then you're not doing 283 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: your job. Yeah. He knew how to get to the 284 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: he knew how to get to the court. He was 285 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,440 Speaker 1: a tough bastard, he really was, but a great guy 286 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: and very smart. Yeah. I'm very very grateful for having 287 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: having time with him, for sure. So let's talk about 288 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: the era though in the time that you were managing, 289 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: which was such a tremendous era of big personalities in 290 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: this marketplace. Uh, sensationally big personalities. You mentioned two who 291 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: were just remarkable of their work and check Curtis and 292 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: Natalie Jacobs as an example, and you had many others 293 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: that I'm sure in clon Alis was a huge nice guy. 294 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 1: There was a lot of very very big personalities. Dick Albert, 295 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 1: Harvey Leonard. I brought Harvey Leonard to Boton. If I 296 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: have to watch news on television, I'll watch Channel five 297 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:10,199 Speaker 1: News because it's my home. I watch David Muir at 298 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: six point thirty, which I think he's he's the best 299 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: of the network news cansters. And I love Shepherd Smith 300 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: because Shepherd Smith gives you the news. I you know, 301 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: I used to go into our newsroom and scream with 302 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: them and tell nobody nobody cares what you think. They 303 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: want to know what happened today. And if you're gonna 304 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: give your opinion, make sure it's clearly labeled opinion. Today 305 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: the lines between opinion and news are so blurred that 306 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: you don't know what to believe. You watch Fox, you 307 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: think the whole world is a Republican you watch MSNBC, 308 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: you think the whole world is a socialist. You watch 309 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: CNN or NBC, you think the whole world's a democrat. 310 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: I mean that, no matter what you think about Donald Trump, 311 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: and god knows he had his loss when he talked 312 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: about fake news, he wasn't lying. The news is with 313 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: certain exceptions, like Shepherd Smith, the news is pretty fake today. 314 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: It's it's uh, it's it's a point of view. I 315 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 1: find it unbearable to watch it. So, you know, I 316 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 1: watch I watch a lot of sports, a lot of movies. Uh. 317 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: Let me let me ask you about though, the the 318 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: way news ultimately UH has shifted, and specifically the notion 319 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: with it with you know, obviously with uh a news story, 320 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: a breaking news story, or an impending weather story. This 321 00:21:52,480 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: notion obviously to drive ratings of sensationalizing UH many things, 322 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: was in an over the top fashion. Let me get 323 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 1: your reaction to to how over the top it is 324 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: in your opinion? Well, I used to have to rein 325 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: him in on that, uh uh a little bit. I 326 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: mean I can remember when one of our reporters would 327 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 1: not divulge a source and she was in danger of 328 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,679 Speaker 1: being sent to prison because the judge ordered her to 329 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: name resource, and she wouldn't do it. Well, I was 330 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: watching the news and the whole newscast was devoted to 331 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,880 Speaker 1: this pour Channel five reporter because of her wonderful ethics, 332 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 1: was going to possibly have to go to prison, and 333 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: they messaged in twenty minutes on it showed her at 334 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: home with her husband and crying and weeping and never 335 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 1: divulged her source to which I mean, on and on 336 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: and on, and I mean, obviously it was good, interesting television. 337 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: But I I talked to the news director, I said, 338 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: are you telling me that's the only thing that happened yesterday? 339 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: And one other time, when uh Michael Ducoccus UH was 340 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 1: running for president, the networks were all covering the convention 341 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: and Uh, I was watching it home, and we had 342 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: our crew there and they were not saying with the network. 343 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: They were showing local coverage and it was all Mike 344 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 1: Ducoccus because our news wanted Mike Ducaccus to become president. 345 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: And finally I called up the control room at the station. 346 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: I said, UH, go back to the network or you're fired. 347 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: They went back to the network. It's I I. It 348 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: is a business where you can allow your ego to 349 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: overpower your brain. And once in any and that or 350 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: I don't care what it is, once you allow your 351 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: ego to overpower your brain, someone's gonna knock you off. 352 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: And uh, and I wasn't gonna let anybody knock me off. 353 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: How much research was a part of things back? Uh? 354 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: Lot news research, Yes, it was a lot. We We 355 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 1: used a company called Frank Maggot, which uh was really 356 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: a think tank in the cornfield and in uh Iowa. 357 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 1: He was pretty good. Uh and uh I read his reports. 358 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 1: A lot of the times we did what he recommended, 359 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: and a lot of the times we didn't because, as 360 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: I said to him, Frank, I live here, you live 361 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: in Des Moines. So uh, there was a lot of 362 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: research that was done. And and of course he lived 363 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 1: and died on the ratings. And and fortunately Boston is 364 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 1: a market where quality cats and uh that was as 365 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,919 Speaker 1: big an ingredient as popularity. But I will tell you something. 366 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: When Nantalie Jacobson had her baby, that was front page 367 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: news in the Boston Herald. They got the thousands of 368 00:24:54,680 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 1: baby gifts. I mean, she was a goddess. And if 369 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 1: you don't believe me, ask heer. Uh I believed if 370 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: if you, if you had quality as as as a 371 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: major ingredient, that uh that eyeballs and hero loves would follow, 372 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: and and and and they did. And don't remember in 373 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: the a I mean you must remember in those days, 374 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:24,679 Speaker 1: there was ABCCBS, NBC, there were the few independence stations. Uh, 375 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 1: cable was just getting started. There was no internet, There 376 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: was no streaming, there were no podcasts. There was no 377 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: fractionalization that uh that has occurred. Uh. There there was 378 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 1: no direct broadcast satellite. We we are drowning in the 379 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 1: sea of entertainment and information technology today. Uh. Before you know, 380 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: a lot of people wanted to get home at six 381 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: o'clock to watch the news. It was a destination time. Yeah, 382 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 1: I mean yeah, it was appointment viewing. Yeah. Well back 383 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,719 Speaker 1: to the research question again. You made me think of this. So, 384 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: you know, when we've had these storms over the last 385 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: few years and suddenly new terms emerge, uh, such as 386 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 1: bombo cyclone, you know, and you think of that, and 387 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 1: you start thinking, and I'm asking you from your your 388 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: your history, Uh, do you think that's just a term 389 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: that was research that they think they need to throw 390 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 1: at the audience. Hemry Dick Albert. Yeah, Dick Albert used 391 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,679 Speaker 1: to say cabagel. People loved it. It means goodbye and 392 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: good luck. He had all kinds of uh goofy terms. Uh. 393 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 1: We did a lot of research on the news. And 394 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: one of the things that I seem to recall, I 395 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 1: do recall whether in this market is very important sports. 396 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: There's a recent sports was on last I we think 397 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: of ourselves as a gr as a great sports time 398 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: because of the Patriots and the Bruins and the Red Song. 399 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: Sports was the lowest of interest names. All people really 400 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,239 Speaker 1: wanna know is if they weren't at the game, if 401 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: they didn't watch the game, give me the score, you know, 402 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: socks three, jocks two. That's all people want. But uh 403 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: uh w w we had some great sports people. Uh 404 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: we had uh Micha Linch. I had another guy that 405 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 1: I hired. He was uh playing records when I hired him. 406 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: Uh I al always thought he was. He was terrific. 407 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: And Don Gillis, whom he replaced, it was truly the 408 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,959 Speaker 1: dean of of uh Boston sports cansters. So for the 409 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: stations that you manage, what was the biggest story when 410 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: your stations ever covered? Oh? Boy, I would have to say, well, 411 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: when when Ronald Reagan was was shot was a huge story. Uh. 412 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: A couple of weeks later the Pope was shot, that 413 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,120 Speaker 1: was a big story. This was after I had retired. 414 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 1: But I would say the biggest story so far, UH 415 00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: was UH nine one one, when those planes flew into 416 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: the World Trade Center. That caught the world's attention, and 417 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,640 Speaker 1: it was the last time that the country was ever united. 418 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: The politics of America is UH, is a carcinoma from 419 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: which I hope we will recover because right now people 420 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,359 Speaker 1: hate each other because of the party they belong to. 421 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: Politics are supposed to end at the water's edge. They 422 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,239 Speaker 1: don't until we can realize that as a as a 423 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 1: great nation, as an American people, that no matter what 424 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: our politics are, we are Americans, and that we have 425 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: a higher allegiance. Uh. You know, when Jack Kennedy said, 426 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: ask not what your country can do for you, but 427 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: what you can do for your country, I was very moved. 428 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: I was also very moved when Ronald Reagan described America 429 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: as a shining city on a hill. I thought that 430 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: Kennedy and and UH and Reagan were two of the 431 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: greatest orators that I was ever ever privileged to him 432 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: to uh me to hear to uh to uh an admire. 433 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: So most compelling conversation in your history with a celebrity 434 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: politician five minutes I spect with Bill Clinton. All I 435 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: can tell you is I thought I was the most 436 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: important person in the world to him. I hardly remember 437 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: what we spoke about. He had the lowest threshold of 438 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: amazement of anyone I've ever known in my life. He 439 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: he fixed those baby blues on you, and you could 440 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: have told him that I just murdered my mother and 441 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: he would say, oh my god, that's wonderful. Yeah. I mean, 442 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: he he he, he had he had it. Whatever, it is, 443 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: a conversation that you had with a notable celebrity that 444 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: you regretted the way it turned out, that you wish 445 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: you could have done it again. Well, before I do that, 446 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: I will tell you a conversation that I had that 447 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: ended up in a book. And I'm in his house 448 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: one night, worst storm I've ever seen in my life 449 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: in the phone rings and it's Roger Alse whom I 450 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: knew from way back. Roger, how are you, Jim? He said, 451 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: I need a favor. He says, uh, as you know, 452 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,719 Speaker 1: he said I'm uh running uh George Bush's campaign. Uh. 453 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: We got the New Hampshire primary. I've got a commercial, 454 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: but I know we'll turn the tide in New Hampshire. 455 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: I can't get it on the air because of the weather. 456 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: And I said, let me see what I can do. 457 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: And I I called a guy who had a four 458 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: wheel drive and all wheel or whatever. I said, there's 459 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: a commercial at the station. It's for Bush and it's 460 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: ready to be president on day one. Get it on 461 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: the air. He called me back an hour later. I've 462 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: been to the station. It's it's in the system. Called 463 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: Roger back and I said, Roger, the first one's gonna 464 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: run at ten. They're gonna go two an hour until 465 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: further notice. He said, well, you just saved America. I said, 466 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 1: well okay, and he said, would you like to talk 467 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: to the vice president? I said, he's kidding. I'd love 468 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: to talk to him. So on I phone, Hey, Jim, 469 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: how you doing? You know? George Bush? Here? I said, 470 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: mister vice president. I said, it's such an honor to 471 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: talk uh to you. He said, well, anything you want? 472 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: He said, what can we do for you? I said, 473 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: I'd love an autograph picture, which he and uh. Then 474 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: I said to him, let me ask you a question. 475 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: I said, I have an unlisted number. How did you 476 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: get my number? He said, Let's put it this way. 477 00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: You got a hell of a rolodex in the White House. 478 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: The absolutely true story. Years later, I was out of 479 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: dinner where meets him? They editor New York Time, uh 480 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: Time magazine was who wrote the biography of George uh HW. Bush? 481 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: And I said, I wanna tell you this story, and 482 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: they started telling him that story. He said, you don't 483 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: have to tell me. He said, he told me that story. Wow, Yeah, 484 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: it's it. It's uh. He was, in my view, the best. 485 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about his son. I'm saying that George H. W. 486 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: Bush was the best one term president we've ever had. 487 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: And it hadn't been for that what was his name 488 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: of guy with the big ears, Uh, he would have 489 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: had another term because uh po po he was the 490 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: only guy that George Bush ever hated. Is that right? Yeah? 491 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: Cause he cost him to presidents. Yeah. Anyway, imagine being 492 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: noticed the guy the big years that was the big yeah. Yeah. 493 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: So uh uh conversation with a notable that when you 494 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: replay it, you go, God, I wish I had a 495 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: second chance at that conversation. Oh something that I would 496 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: do over again? Yeah, I do over. Will you marry me? 497 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: Not only Kenny? Uh? I guess there were there there 498 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: were times when I should have said yes and I 499 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: said no. And there were times when I should have 500 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: said no and I said yes, and I regat those 501 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: times won't go ahead to them. But by and large, 502 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: and you follow your instincts. Life is a crime. Shoot, 503 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: you know, I've had a lot of lucky sevens. Yeah, 504 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: there you go. I love that. So one of the 505 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: things from the the the era where the Heyday era 506 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: that my understanding is you were a master of is 507 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: what I call the art of holding court. Uh. You 508 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: know at a at a restaurant, or at a bar, 509 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: at a club, with with a group could be friends, ends, 510 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: co workers, you know, strangers define for me in your eyes, 511 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: how you learned the article in court? Well, y, you 512 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,839 Speaker 1: don't learn it. It's a gift. It's a gift that 513 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: that somehow you know you don't slice the tooth. Then 514 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 1: you don't slice the tooth thick Y. You walk into 515 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 1: a room and and people are glad to see it 516 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 1: because you know they're gonna have a good time, and 517 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 1: you know that they know that you're not there to 518 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: make travel. You're there to make the room a little brighter. 519 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: And you don't think you're of of it. You just 520 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: do it. It just happens. It's a gift, it's it's uh. 521 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 1: I believe there are three things that cause us to 522 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: act the way we act. One is your personality, which 523 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 1: you always return to. Second is your behavior, which you 524 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: alter to determine what you want to accomplish. And the third, 525 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: of course is passion, which is the strongest of all 526 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: and them is the most brief of all. But in 527 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,240 Speaker 1: the end we always returned to that think called personality. 528 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: So you mentioned now in the way of there's different 529 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: media platforms that exist. There's streaming, there's social media, there's 530 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,839 Speaker 1: other ways for people to get news. W what's your 531 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: opinion of those platforms as someone who came from where 532 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: you came from in the the business. Well, it's mixed. 533 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I I I if if if they're gonna 534 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: censor you, then I don't respect them. Uh. I think 535 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:52,320 Speaker 1: uh Twitter kicked Trump off of uh their platform ostensibly 536 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: because they said he wasn't truthful, but really because they 537 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: didn't agree with him. I think a news carrier or 538 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: an information just first or should allow the listener the 539 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 1: viewer to make up his or her mind as to 540 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 1: whether it's something that's true or false. And in the 541 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:13,399 Speaker 1: great recipe of information that the media is, there will 542 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: be balance. There's a reason they did away with the 543 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 1: fairness doctrine because there was so much proliferation that it 544 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 1: was all points of view where we were expressed. I 545 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 1: have to like Facebook. I'm not saying I like the 546 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 1: guy who started it, but I like the fact that 547 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 1: it gives people a platform. It's it's the London Hyde 548 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 1: Park of the world now where anybody can get up 549 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 1: on that soapbox and say my grandchildren are wonderful, my 550 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,840 Speaker 1: wife is beautiful, I love my dog. I use it 551 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: all the time, and so I like Facebook. I don't 552 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 1: know much about Instagram or uh whatever. Somebody TikTok. Look. 553 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: I think that that anything that is available that is 554 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 1: not hateful. I if something is hateful and picks on 555 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 1: it somebody because of the accident of their birth or 556 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: what they believe in, what they honestly believe in, and 557 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:23,360 Speaker 1: is destructive, then I'm opposed to it. What about misinformation 558 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,800 Speaker 1: around a pandemic. I don't think it's gonna be avoided. 559 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,839 Speaker 1: I don't think I I I I. I don't think 560 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: misinformation around a pandemic can be avoided. I what what 561 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 1: what should have been avoided was polarization of that information 562 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: or misinformation. I mean, the President of the United States 563 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: now blames and half the people believe him that it 564 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: was the pandemic that caused the failure of his presidency. 565 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,479 Speaker 1: The fact that we have inflation. Oh wait a minute, 566 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 1: what about the fact that the uh EasTone pipeline was 567 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: killed on the first day that uh? Uh uh drilling 568 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: rights who were halted on the second day? Uh? And 569 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,720 Speaker 1: and we end up having to beg Iran and people 570 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:13,799 Speaker 1: other in Russian people who who hate us for oil? Uh? 571 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: What about the fact that gasoline that the pump was 572 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: two dollars and sixty cents to snout four dollars and 573 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 1: thirty cents And believe it or not, we're gonna see 574 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: go to six fifty a gallon in this country. In 575 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,840 Speaker 1: my view, and since I'm an American and I'm entitled, 576 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,840 Speaker 1: in my view, I think the president is going to 577 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: be a one term president because of all the things 578 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: that ever came out of the Clinton administration. The term 579 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,279 Speaker 1: is the economy stupid is as valid today as it 580 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 1: was now. So I want to close on your prognostication 581 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: on the news business. Where you see it heading wh 582 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,359 Speaker 1: where you see it. You know, as times and platforms 583 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:02,400 Speaker 1: shifts and consumption shifts, all of that. So where's the 584 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 1: face of news going to be over the next few 585 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: years down the line? What can we expect? I think 586 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 1: it's going to be electronic more than print. People's attention 587 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 1: span are diminishing. I know my own attention span is 588 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: diminished chromatically in this electronic age. Because this little thing 589 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: that I'm holding in my hand on my jollphone, all 590 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 1: the knowledge in the world is in there. There's more 591 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,360 Speaker 1: computer in this little thing than there was in a 592 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 1: refrigerator size thing that they used to send a man 593 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 1: to the moon. You could shave with the magazines, so 594 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,480 Speaker 1: then they've become there's no such thing as classified advertising, 595 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,880 Speaker 1: or very little of it in newspapers. They're all losing money. 596 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 1: What's making money is electronic media, radio, television, social platforms, 597 00:39:55,200 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: and a direct broadcast satellite television stations. We're hurting badly 598 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,760 Speaker 1: until payment for retransmission became the law of the land. 599 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 1: Now local television stations are profitable in the extreme, I 600 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 1: would say so. I would say a select group of 601 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: electronic media will become even more prominent. Newspapers, magazines, certain 602 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,640 Speaker 1: forms of electronic media. We'll be lucky to be alive. Books. 603 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 1: I used to read a lot of books. I mean, 604 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 1: I grew up reading books as a kid and devoured them. 605 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 1: Steinbach O'Hara of Scott Fitzgerald Anyway, Shakespeare, I haven't read 606 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 1: a book in years. Attention span is everybody's double park today, 607 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,960 Speaker 1: should I answer your question? Yeah, that's that's a brilliant 608 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 1: way to put it. Everybody's top of park and their 609 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:57,440 Speaker 1: their ability to digest as is shifted. But as the 610 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 1: and the business hasn't shifted to adapt to that. In 611 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:04,759 Speaker 1: your opinion, certain of them have and others have not. 612 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,840 Speaker 1: Certain people, I mean, I'm sure you know people that 613 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:15,320 Speaker 1: speak slowly. I think you're interested in every detail, Sam, 614 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,000 Speaker 1: I don't care if you that cornflakes for breakfast. I 615 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 1: don't give a crap. You know, get to the point, 616 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 1: will you're beginning to bore me? There are people like that. 617 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,360 Speaker 1: Then I went to the grocery store and I stopped 618 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,280 Speaker 1: at the bank and the teller was a very pretty girl. 619 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,920 Speaker 1: I don't care. Well, hopefully I haven't been that person. 620 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,879 Speaker 1: I would never say that you were that person while 621 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 1: you're in the room. Thank you, mister comfortspone. You argue 622 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,919 Speaker 1: did a great job and if there was a Hall 623 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:57,400 Speaker 1: of Fame for interviewers, you'd be in it. Taking a 624 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:02,200 Speaker 1: Walk with Buzz Night is available on s, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, 625 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.