1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: Buzz Night here for the Taking a Walk podcast, and 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: we're going to go to another classic replay. It was 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: back in August we had a virtual walk with a 4 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: record producer legend, Jack Douglas. He was the last person 5 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: to produce John Lennett. He worked for so many years 6 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: with Aerosmith, with Cheap Trick and others. He is music 7 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: history and let's check out this classic replay with Jack Douglas. 8 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: Next on Taking a Walk. 9 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:33,480 Speaker 2: Well, Jack, how did you first know that music had 10 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 2: sunk its meat hooks into you and would never let go? 11 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 3: I guess when I was about four or five years old. 12 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 3: You know, my parents they listened to a lot of music. 13 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 3: They weren't musical themselves, but they listened to this. So 14 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 3: there was always a ton of music in my house, 15 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 3: in the Bronx, in our apartment. I was totally into, 16 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 3: you know, getting like, you know, listening to how much 17 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 3: is that Dog in the window? And I also loved, like, 18 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 3: I mean, these are seventy eights I'm talking about. Also 19 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 3: loved like all of the story books that came out 20 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 3: Bugs Bunny, Stephen and Tyler and I talked about this. 21 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 3: We had the same collection of the Tortoise and the 22 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 3: Hair and Bozo under the Sea. That was a favorite 23 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 3: of both of ours. So I was into music and 24 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 3: storytelling at a very early age. And my dad worked 25 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 3: in a freight yard in Hunt's Point in the Bronx. 26 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 3: He decided that because they had a nice console in 27 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 3: the living room, that they listened to their music. My 28 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 3: dad listened to opera and my mom listened to what 29 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 3: was then called the race music, basically blues and R 30 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 3: and B and so it was a good contrast. Plus 31 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 3: you know the pop stuff that was on the radio 32 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 3: on Big Band and Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra and 33 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 3: all those folks. But my dad got you got to 34 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 3: hint that a train was coming in, and on the 35 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 3: one of the trains coming in from Chicago was a 36 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 3: bunch of electronic equipment, and so you know, they Tilford regularly. 37 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 3: I mean, that was like part of the perks of 38 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 3: working in a freight yard. And he decided that he 39 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 3: was going to get me my own record player so 40 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 3: that I could stop putting these records on their console 41 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 3: in the living room. And so he went in the 42 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 3: middle of the night and he got He saw a 43 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 3: webcor of Chicago on a box, said record you figure 44 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 3: said record players who stashed it, and he brought home 45 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 3: for my birthday. I think it was maybe I was 46 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 3: six or seven somewhere in there, you know, I don't 47 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 3: And anyway, he put it under my bed and then 48 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 3: came into wishing me happy birthday, and he said, present 49 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 3: under your bed. I looked under it and I pulled 50 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 3: it out and unwrapped it, and both my father and 51 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 3: I were like, what the hell is this. It was 52 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 3: a tape recorder. It wasn't It wasn't a record player. 53 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 3: It was a tape recorder, a webcres, a small one. 54 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 3: And we got and we read the instruction manual, and 55 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 3: we went down to Canal Street and bought a bunch 56 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 3: of tape, and I started recording TV themes, which I 57 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 3: really loved off the television. There were all these great themes. 58 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 3: I love Lucy, and I remember every one of them 59 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 3: so well, Abin Gistello and I mean, all these shows, 60 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 3: but they're still going in my head, Highway Patrol Dragnet. 61 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 3: I would record these things and listen to them, I 62 00:03:54,800 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 3: knew I was definitely in the music. Also. Also, the 63 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 3: the thing that I noticed that my parents noticed too, 64 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 3: is that they would take me to see movies that 65 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 3: were way over my head because I was a kid. 66 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 3: But you went to the movies on a regular basis 67 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 3: back in those days. And I could come out of 68 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 3: the theater and sing the main themes to the movies 69 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 3: the melody lines in the right key as well, so 70 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 3: they kind of knew something was going on. And I 71 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 3: would I would record street sounds that hang that we 72 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 3: lived near an elevated subway, and I would record the 73 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 3: train gone by and feedback and all kinds of weirdness. 74 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 3: I like to stick the microphone down my mom's old 75 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 3: vacuum cute cleaner tube and record those sounds and then 76 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 3: and then listen to them back at the slower speed. 77 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 3: And my dad once he said to me, I had 78 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 3: hit these funky mono headphones on, you know, for like 79 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 3: a radio. Anyway, he said to me, what are you 80 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 3: listening to? One day and I said, oh, I'm making 81 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 3: my own music. Dad. He said, oh, let me listen now. 82 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 3: I was listening pretty loud, and he put them on. 83 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 3: It was the vacuum cleaner and he threw threw it down. 84 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 3: He said, he said, that's not music. I said it is. 85 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 3: To me, that's music. To me, and so he figured, 86 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 3: I've got this music then going on, And maybe a 87 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 3: month or so later, apparently a silvertone series acoustic guitar 88 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 3: fell off a freight car and he gave it to me, 89 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 3: along with a Melbay chord book, and he said, now 90 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,559 Speaker 3: you can make music. And I learned how to play, 91 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 3: and so I was in it from real early and 92 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 3: studied music in high school, went to a high school 93 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 3: that specialized in arts and science, studied theory and top position, 94 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 3: and ended up playing in rock bands and I was 95 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 3: off and running. 96 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 2: You actually played in a folk band associated with Bobby 97 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 2: Kennedy in sixty four. 98 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 4: Tell me about that. 99 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 3: I was writing his campaign songs when he was running 100 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 3: for the Senate. I mean, that was just an oddball 101 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 3: thing I was, you know, I was. I was really young, 102 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 3: fifteen or sixteen, and I was doing the thing in 103 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,359 Speaker 3: the village, you know, where you bust in the street 104 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 3: or if you could get into a place where you 105 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 3: didn't have to be over eighteen eighteen was the drinking age. 106 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 3: I would get in and play for whatever, you know, 107 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 3: basically traditional folk songs, singing them. And this guy came 108 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 3: up to me and he said, hey, you write songs too, 109 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 3: and I said yes, and he said, you like a 110 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 3: job for the summer. Oh, by the way, this particular 111 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 3: guy came to a Young Democrats meeting that I was 112 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 3: playing at, was you know, at near NYU. So I said, 113 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 3: how much does it pay, this summer job? And he said, well, 114 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 3: it doesn't pay anything really, but you get to travel 115 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 3: a bit and you'll eat and you'll have some fun. 116 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 3: Well that was, you know, playing these rallies for for JFK. 117 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 3: I actually ended up playing the last one at Madison 118 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 3: Square Garden following the Ronettes. So you know, one of 119 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 3: my claims to fame is I played at the garden, 120 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 3: the Old Garden, and that was I think that was 121 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 3: the Democratic National Convention that was held that year. That was. 122 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 3: That was a good start for me, and I learned 123 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 3: a lot about politics and turning traditional folk songs into 124 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 3: campaign songs. 125 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 2: You've masteredly figured out the art of collaboration. Did you 126 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 2: learn that when you went to the Institute of Audio 127 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 2: Research there? 128 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, no, not at all. Collaboration began as 129 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 3: soon as I got my own rock band together. You know, 130 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 3: it was not I made sure that the people were 131 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 3: in the band we were real contributors were created even 132 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 3: though we were young. These were guys that had most 133 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 3: of them a little older than me, but they all 134 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 3: had good ideas and and and then I went on 135 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 3: the road. After I came back from Liverpool, I went 136 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 3: on the road for years and played with a ton 137 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 3: of people from the Angels, my boyfriend back and I 138 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 3: would play either guitar or bass, play with Chuck Berry 139 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 3: for a while. You know, I toured, I was. I 140 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 3: was on three different mad labels, Columbia, Epic, and Bell 141 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 3: as a writer and as an artist. The last label 142 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 3: that I was on was the was t Neck and 143 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,719 Speaker 3: my band was being produced by the Isley Brothers. And 144 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 3: after that is where I made the decision to go 145 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 3: to the other side of the glass and enrolled in 146 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 3: the Institute of Audio Research and also got a job 147 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 3: at Record Plant as the janitor. They both happened around 148 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 3: the exact same time as my day job. I was 149 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 3: a motorcycle messenger in Manhattan. I was living in the 150 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 3: East Village, but that paid great money because I would 151 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 3: I would ride that bike all through winter, and it 152 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 3: meant that the nights I could, I could gig with 153 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 3: the band. So it was. You know, all I had 154 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 3: to do was call up and say the dispatcher and 155 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 3: say I'm on. And I had this Norton Commando. In 156 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 3: the winter, I'd have knobby wheels on it so I 157 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 3: could get around in the snow. And then the winter 158 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,079 Speaker 3: paid great money, so it was like really cool. 159 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 2: But when you became the janitor, you must have had 160 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 2: your sights on becoming a recording engineer. 161 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 3: Well I did. In fact, I wanted to be a 162 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 3: producer as well and a composer. And the funny thing was, 163 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,199 Speaker 3: while I was the janitor at night, I was also 164 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 3: a client because I was scoring the original ABC after 165 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 3: School specials for the producer Danny Wilson and such. Danny's 166 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 3: still active, it's great, but I went to work producing 167 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 3: music for his show, which was the Over seven and 168 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 3: it was the original ABC after school specials, and so 169 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:57,559 Speaker 3: at night I would be a client. In the daytime, 170 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 3: I was the janitor, but I was you know, I 171 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 3: would beg other engineers if I could just sit in 172 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 3: on their sessions so I could learn between and I 173 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 3: worked my way up from general worker. Actually after janitor 174 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 3: you're just cart and stuff around and Record Plant also 175 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 3: ran a school for us, you know, guys that were 176 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 3: on the way up. So I learned a lot there 177 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 3: and I became a tape librarian and I went into 178 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 3: the editing booth. I was an editor, then I was 179 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 3: an assistant engineer, doing tons of stuff, you know, working 180 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 3: with great rock bands that were coming through Record Plan 181 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 3: and also early mornings, I was doing jingles for the 182 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 3: Forward and Airlines and you know all those big commercials 183 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 3: when you had the big orchestra dates and earythm session. 184 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 3: And I was also doing artists demos, so I did 185 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 3: all of Billy Joel's demos for him to get his 186 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 3: deal Lumbia. I did Patty the Bell demos, and these 187 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 3: are four track, so they would want to come in 188 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 3: and listen to what it sounded like before they went 189 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:12,079 Speaker 3: in and invested in the big rooms to do it. 190 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 3: And that's a great learning experience when you have to 191 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 3: record all this stuff for track, especially if you've got 192 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 3: a big rhythm section that's you know, I was in 193 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 3: a hurry. It didn't take me long. Honestly. They would 194 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 3: let me at midnight. They would let me come in 195 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 3: and record whoever I wanted for free, you know, like 196 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 3: local bands, and you know, I really made my bones 197 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 3: by bringing in groups and recording them and learning how 198 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 3: to do it right. 199 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 2: What a fascinating time it must have been in that area. 200 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 2: It's still a fascinating area that the whole scene. And 201 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 2: since this podcast is called taking a Walk, I have 202 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 2: to ask you, even though we're virtual, so did you 203 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 2: ever get sort of in a creative block where things 204 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 2: were kind of jammed up? And would you just go 205 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 2: for a walk in the village to free your mind? 206 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 3: No? No, I didn't have time for that at all. No. 207 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 3: If I had a block, I had to work it 208 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 3: out while it was behind the board. But I mean 209 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 3: I made some terrible blunders. I was recording Paddy Labelle's 210 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 3: demos and the guy put these old boards, especially the 211 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 3: four track boards were all tubes and they had giant 212 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 3: transformers and the bass player and I thought, man, I'm 213 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 3: doing this. This demo sounds so good because there's a 214 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 3: full rhythm section and her and you know I and 215 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 3: I said, and you have to do everything live. You 216 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 3: have to do your reverb or your compression. Everything has 217 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 3: to be done on the fly right away because there's 218 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 3: no going back to it. And so I'm doing this 219 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 3: and I'm thinking, Wow, I'm really good here, and the 220 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 3: bass player came in. I couldn't wait to play it 221 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 3: for Patty because I thought, she's not even going to 222 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 3: have to do a master. This is it. And the 223 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 3: bass player came around behind me and he put his 224 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 3: beer next to me. I didn't see it, and the 225 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 3: remote for the tape machine it was in between me 226 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 3: and the remote for the tape machine, and I went 227 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 3: to hit the remote and hit the beer, and the 228 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 3: beer went into the transformers and flame shot out, and 229 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 3: literally I burned the board down. The flames were coming 230 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 3: out of the faders. I destroyed the room that the 231 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 3: board was gone, and I got fired immediately. The owner, 232 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 3: Chris Stone came he said, you're fired. Patty LaBelle went 233 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 3: to him and said it wasn't his fault at all. 234 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 3: And Roy Skaala, who was the chief engineer, who quite 235 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 3: famous guy, he was my mentor. He said to Christone, 236 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 3: he said, why don't we listen to the tape, And 237 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 3: because the tape was still there, he said, lit's listen 238 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 3: to the take us. If it's good, he'll make more 239 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 3: money for the studio than that board cost, which was 240 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 3: on its way out. Anyway, they listened to the tape 241 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 3: and the next day Chris Stone called me up. I 242 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 3: was like, oh, my career is over. I've got to 243 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 3: do this is terrible. Christone called me up and he said, well, 244 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 3: I decided to give you another chance. And and he said, 245 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 3: but we're going to give you a pay cut from 246 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 3: sixty five dollars a week to sixty dollars a week. 247 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 3: I said, fine, So I got but you know you 248 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 3: trip along the way for sure, you know, but yeah, 249 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 3: I never had time to go. I mean, for me, 250 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 3: I was on the course that I wanted to be on. 251 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 3: I was learning by working as an assistant, working on 252 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 3: projects that had either lousy producers are really good ones, 253 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 3: and I would be taking oaks on this works, this 254 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 3: doesn't work. And I was an assistant on American Pie 255 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 3: and I watched how all these bits and pieces of 256 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 3: that song were edited together to make that masterpiece. Now 257 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 3: that that works. So I mean I worked with a 258 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 3: lot of a lot of producers along the way as 259 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 3: both an assistant and then as an engineer, which I 260 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 3: became like the rock guy, probably because I played music 261 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 3: rock for so long. But those notes really helped me 262 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 3: understanding what worked with an artist and what didn't. 263 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 2: So as you were in that recording, you know, engineer 264 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 2: mode there, I wanted to get your reaction to some 265 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 2: folks that you worked with that were pretty amazing. 266 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 4: I'm going to start with Miles Davis. 267 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 3: Well, I was. I mean, first of all, he was 268 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 3: great in the studio, not not at all, be treated 269 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 3: everybody great, the fellow musicians, the crew. Mostly I assisted 270 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 3: on those sessions. I assisted on Miles, I assisted on 271 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 3: Nina Simone because Jay Messina was the jazz guy, and 272 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 3: Jay would always bring me in to do these jazz states, 273 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 3: Mike McNairy record Brothers, and so I got to you know, 274 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:32,120 Speaker 3: I'd be working hand in hand with him on these 275 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 3: great sessions. But I was, you know, a giant Miles fan, 276 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 3: John Coltry fan, and and I was, you know, I 277 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 3: didn't know what to expect. You know, you always hear 278 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 3: Miles turns his back on you. And Miles, Miles was 279 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 3: the sweetest guy in the studio because he understood that 280 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 3: in the studio probably unlike a live performance, that is 281 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 3: a collaborative situation and the crew is important. So he 282 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 3: was just really sweet. And he loved Jamie Sina because 283 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 3: they wore the same shoe sizes, and Jay would always 284 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 3: come in with like a really cool pair of shoes 285 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 3: and might also say Jay, hey, j can't you do 286 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 3: his voice? But you would ask Jay to pick him 287 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 3: up a pair of those shoes when he was at 288 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 3: the store, and j would deliver him over to his 289 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 3: brownstone on the West Side near where Jay lived. He 290 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 3: was great. Nina Simone scared me working with Nina. I 291 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 3: would be, you know, putting the setting a mic and 292 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 3: interview because she'd be singing and playing piano and she 293 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 3: just look at me like, are you sure that's in 294 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 3: the right place that she gun me looking? I think 295 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 3: it is the fun stuff. Who else? 296 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 4: James Gang again. 297 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 3: I was assisting on James Gang's sessions. They were brothers. 298 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 3: They brought the mother in one time. I guess they 299 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 3: were from Indiana or something like that. The funny thing is, 300 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 3: you know, recently I've become really good friends with, well 301 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 3: the last few years, with Joe Walsh. When I'm out 302 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 3: in la I see him quite often because he works 303 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,199 Speaker 3: at Ringo and I see Ringo quite often. I got 304 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 3: to talking to him and I said, you remember that 305 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 3: album you were doing that record plant James Kang and 306 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 3: he said sure, I said I was. I was the 307 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 3: other engineer and he said, you got to be shitting me. Wow, 308 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,959 Speaker 3: that's crazy. Yeah, I said, yeah, that was me. And 309 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 3: that was Bill Simsick was engineer producer. I guess Bill 310 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 3: went on to work with the Eagles. In fact, he 311 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 3: invited me down to Miami to listen to when he 312 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 3: had this motel that he had converted and Coconut Grove 313 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,719 Speaker 3: into a studio. He invited me down to listen to 314 00:19:55,760 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 3: what he was doing. Yeah, that was fun. And those 315 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 3: guys were very cool and very professional in the studio. 316 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 2: Another one that I love to mention is the one 317 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 2: and only Alice Cooper. 318 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 3: Well, uh, that that was pretty cool because I loved 319 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:19,880 Speaker 3: working with Bob Ezram. Bob was He was a funny caddy. 320 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 3: He was and he is extremely talented musician and arranger 321 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 3: and writer. And he was a guy that I learned 322 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 3: both pro and con from because he had a he had. 323 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 3: His talent was so supreme that his ideas were always good, 324 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 3: but there was never a lot of room for the 325 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 3: for the band, in particular Alice's band. Their ideas. It 326 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 3: was like Bob laid down the law and that's how 327 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,959 Speaker 3: you did it, and they were used to that working 328 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 3: with him, and so I thought, and I don't think 329 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 3: I can ever ever do it that way, but and 330 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 3: you know, I'm not as talented as Bob, but I 331 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 3: can work around it. But Alice sessions were great, and 332 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 3: I worked on Schools Out and Billion Dollar Babies with Bob. 333 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 3: And then after doing the Dolls album, the first album, 334 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 3: Bob came to me and he said, you know you're 335 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,719 Speaker 3: because Todd didn't show up very much and I had 336 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 3: a good relationship with the band. Would we would keep 337 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 3: that going? And Bob told me, he said, you know 338 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 3: you're you're producing this now as well you should be producing. 339 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 3: And so I'm going to give you the next Alice 340 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,679 Speaker 3: album to produce because it's the it's the last group album, 341 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 3: and then Alice is going solo with me, and he said, 342 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 3: I don't like funerals, and so you're going to produce it, 343 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 3: which was Muscle of Love. They put Jack Richardson in 344 00:21:58,400 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 3: there with me too to keep an eye on. 345 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 4: And what would bring your first encounter with cheap Trip. 346 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 3: That was I had relatives in Waukeshaw, Wisconsin, my brother 347 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 3: in law. He said to me, You've got to come 348 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 3: see this band that's playing at the Sunset Bowl Bowling 349 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 3: Alley in Waukeshaw. They're really good, and I thought, God, 350 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,880 Speaker 3: my brother in law was taste of music is just terrible. 351 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 3: But what the hell, I got nothing else to do. 352 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 3: So we went to the bowling alley and Cheap Trick 353 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 3: was playing and they were I mean, and they knocked 354 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 3: me out. They were incredible. I couldn't believe what I 355 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 3: was hearing. And I had known about them because they 356 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 3: were already making noise, not signed, but already making noise 357 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 3: around the Midwest. I told them that right then and there. 358 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 3: I said, I think I can get you a deal 359 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 3: and I'd like to produce you, and they said okay. 360 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 3: So the next day I called up my Epic Records 361 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 3: and said, get out here and see this band, and 362 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 3: if you don't sign them, I'll take them to RCA. 363 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 3: And because my reputation with CBS Records, which was Columbia 364 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 3: and Epic, because my relationship was good with him, he 365 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 3: came out and they were signed shortly after the Epic Records, 366 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 3: and shortly after that I was out there. We did 367 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 3: a quick pre production. Mostly they had so much material. 368 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,959 Speaker 3: It was crazy, insane amount of material. It was just 369 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,919 Speaker 3: a matter of making sure it was recordable, edited a 370 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 3: little bit here and there. You know. It wasn't like 371 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 3: I had to do any co writing with them at all. 372 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 3: They were really self contained in that department. I didn't 373 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 3: do very much arranging except maybe on the overdubs, things 374 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,439 Speaker 3: like Mando Cello or I mean, we knocked off I 375 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 3: think thirty basic tracks in two weeks when we went 376 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 3: into record play and then, you know, I said, well, 377 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 3: these songs will put on the back burner because I 378 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 3: don't think they quite fit on this album, which the 379 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 3: first album is a lot of social and political statements 380 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 3: in it. I thought, we're going to go to college 381 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 3: radio with this, and we'll put these other ones on 382 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 3: the back burner. Other Go Go Girls, I Want You 383 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 3: to Want Me, Surrender, We'll put those on the back 384 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,919 Speaker 3: burner for the next record. Unfortunately, the next record I 385 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 3: was doing aerosmith to draw the line. That took a 386 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 3: year to do, so I never got to them to 387 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 3: the second album, which I had, and I didn't get 388 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,159 Speaker 3: back to them until Buddha Coom. But that proved to 389 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 3: be pretty good. Fifteen million records and still selling. Tell 390 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 3: me about your encounter with the who well who were 391 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 3: coming in to do I think it was called the 392 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 3: Lighthouse Project something like that, and it wasn't Who's Next, 393 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 3: but it was the material that was going to make 394 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:07,239 Speaker 3: cup Who's Next, And so they wanted to record all 395 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 3: this material, and the they said, give us your chief engineer. 396 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 3: They were gigging around the northeast at the time, but 397 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 3: give us your chief engineer. And so the chief engineer 398 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 3: was a guy named Jack Adams, and he was not 399 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 3: a rock engineer, but he was the chief engineer. He 400 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,959 Speaker 3: was an R and B guy, and he didn't like 401 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 3: rock music very much at all, and so knowing that, 402 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 3: they put me on the date to assist him. And 403 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 3: so I, you know, the equipment came into the into 404 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 3: the room, he all Keith drums, and I set up 405 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 3: like I was setting up for a big rock day 406 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 3: like Mountain or one of those kind of dates where 407 00:25:55,280 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 3: it's going to be heavy and loud, and ually miked 408 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 3: all the tom toms and stuff that Jack normally would do, 409 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,239 Speaker 3: because an R and B session is very different. And 410 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 3: then the band came in and I said, let's Jack 411 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 3: Adams wasn't there yet, and I said, you guys want 412 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 3: to roll something so I could get the room totally 413 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 3: set up? Sure, and so I rolled tape and they 414 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 3: started jamming, and they started jamming on Baby Don't Do It, 415 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 3: Don't Break Your Heart? And I said to hey, do 416 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 3: you mind if I get a friend of mine to 417 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 3: commit and jam with you guys. It was Leslie West, 418 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 3: who was in the next room, and so they said, no, 419 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 3: we love Leslie West. So I went and I got 420 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 3: Leslie and he came in and he jammed. I think 421 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 3: that particular jam session is available Leslie West and the 422 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 3: Who playing Baby Don't Do It recorded. It sounded really good, 423 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 3: sounded like The Who. I got it all tuned down up. 424 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 3: Jack came into the room. Finally. I love Jack Adams. 425 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 3: He was a fabulous R and B guy and later 426 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 3: disco too. He did. But he came into the room 427 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 3: and he said, oh, what is this? And I said, 428 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 3: you know, it's the Who. He's like, Who What? Who? 429 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 3: I'm like. The last album Jack was Tommy. It was 430 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 3: unbelievable huge, It wasn't into it that much. They came 431 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 3: into the into the booth and they said, let's hear 432 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 3: that back. What we just jammed, so we know it 433 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 3: sounds like So I got to spun the tape backwards 434 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 3: and and they listened to it, and Pete went over 435 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 3: and franked Now the big Westlake monitors in that room, 436 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 3: you know, five hundred watts on each side. Fabulous sound. 437 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,640 Speaker 3: He cranked the monitors right up loud, and I could 438 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 3: see that Jack was very Jack I was very uncomfortable 439 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 3: with that, and he was like, oh my god, no 440 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 3: you And then they went back out in the room 441 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 3: and Jack said to me, I can't I can't do this. 442 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 3: Kit Lambert was producing, by the way, it was a 443 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 3: crazy maniac but I love I loved watching him. I 444 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 3: learned a lot as he would conduct the band like 445 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 3: it was an orchestra because his father was a very 446 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 3: famous conductor in England. So Jack said to me, I 447 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,159 Speaker 3: can't do this. This is this is awful. There's no broove, 448 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 3: there's no soul. So I said, well, you know, you 449 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 3: get through it, Jack, don't worry. He said, no, I'm 450 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 3: not going to get through it at all. You're going 451 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 3: to get through it, huh. He said, yeah, he goes. 452 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 3: I want you to go into the production room, which 453 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 3: was basically in the control room, there was a wall 454 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 3: sepparate it. He said, call me up on the phone, 455 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 3: name at the board and tell me something terrible has 456 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 3: happened that I will have to leave. Said, why don't 457 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 3: you just tell them something? He goes, no, I need 458 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 3: to react to this. So Jack Adams lived on a 459 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 3: houseboat and on the seventy ninth Street Pier, Hudson River. 460 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 3: So I called him up and I was really quiet. 461 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 3: You could hear me in the room if you care 462 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 3: to listen. And the phone rang and Jack picked up. 463 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 3: I said, Jack, He said, yeah, said I have something 464 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 3: really terrible to tell you. Now. Pete Townsend was still 465 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 3: in the room, and Jack kind of was obvious that 466 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 3: he was loud, and he went something terrible. What happened? Now, 467 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 3: Pete and Keith they're looking at him. And I say 468 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 3: to Jack, your houseboat's on fire and it's sinking in 469 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 3: the Hudson River. And then he repeated that my houseboat's 470 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 3: on fire and it's stinking that and then he kind 471 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 3: of put in, like in quotations, I live in a houseboat. 472 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 3: And then he said my dog. He didn't have a dog, 473 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 3: but he threw that in. For a little extra stuff, 474 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 3: I have to go, the other engineer will take over. 475 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 3: I took the reins. The first song that we recorded 476 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 3: was we Don't Get Fooled Again live vocals, and it 477 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 3: was hair raising, and we recorded on ten tracks. At 478 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 3: some point the front office heard that I was in charge, 479 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 3: and they were a little worried, but they sent somebody 480 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 3: down to keep an eye on me, and they sent 481 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 3: me an assistant. And it was good. Exactly got to 482 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 3: be really good friends with those guys. And after the 483 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 3: gigs they would say, this would be like one o'clock 484 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 3: in the morning and they go and now we're going 485 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 3: to go out and have some fun. Okay, you're going 486 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 3: with us, kid, Okay. So I would go out with 487 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 3: them and we would meet at the Navarro Hotel, which 488 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 3: was on Central Park South, small hotel, boutique hotel. They 489 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 3: had the whole ninth floor, which was maybe eight rooms. 490 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 3: This way it kept them away from regular clients, and 491 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 3: Keith and Pete had the two front suites which face 492 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 3: Central Park beautiful and on the ninth floor. Now this 493 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 3: is a building that had high ceilings, and so I 494 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 3: would go there and we would meet in Pete's room 495 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 3: and then go out to some after hours place or 496 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 3: just you know, they knew all these spots. I was 497 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 3: in New Yorker. I had no idea these studies existed. 498 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 3: You know, they get a couple of limos and off 499 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 3: we'd go. But anyway, every night I would go up 500 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 3: there Heath. I mean, everybody came through the door into 501 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 3: Pete's sweet but Keith would open the window on his 502 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 3: suite and crawl across the ledge outside the building and 503 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 3: then open up Pete's window and climb in. This is 504 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 3: like nine very high floors, and no one thought that 505 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 3: was unusual except me. Everyone was, hey, Keith, what are 506 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 3: we doing tonight? And I'd be like, oh my god, 507 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 3: that's a little bit I saw. I ran into Pete 508 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 3: at Sir at a rehearsal just a few years ago. 509 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 3: He was coming to a meeting and he had a 510 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 3: girl with him that he was producing, and I ran 511 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,719 Speaker 3: into him. I said, hey, Pete, I mean it's been years, 512 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 3: I said, remember me and Jack? And he goes, heere 513 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 3: Jack Douglas, Oh yeah, wow, spend a lifetime since I've 514 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 3: seen you. And I said yeah yeah. And he introduced 515 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 3: me to the artist that he was with, and he 516 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 3: introduced me. He said a thousand years ago, he said 517 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 3: to her, we worked with Jack and made him famous. Thanks, thanks, Pete. Thanks, 518 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 3: It's true, that's outstanding. Yeah. 519 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 2: So then it's nineteen sixty excuse me, nineteen seventy one. 520 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 3: Well, sixty nine is when I went to record plants. 521 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 3: The very first project, interestingly enough, that I worked on 522 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 3: as a general worker because we had the move tapes 523 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 3: was Woodstock. Can you imagine? So the van would pull 524 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 3: up with the tapes from the show that we're recorded live, 525 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 3: and then I would bring him to the various studios 526 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 3: where the artists were fixing the tapes. You ran into 527 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 3: Hendrix and Rosby. Still's a nasher all in there. It's amazing. 528 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 3: I'm like, wow, I'm in the right place here. But yeah, 529 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 3: go ahead, Well. 530 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 4: Well, excuse me. Seventy one you would engineer. 531 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 3: Imagine one of the engineers. 532 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, tell me about your first of a lifetime encounter 533 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 2: with John. 534 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 3: You know, first of all, I was an incredible Beatle fan, 535 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 3: had been for years, I mean just ord a fanatic, 536 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 3: really loved them. I even went to Liverpool in sixty 537 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 3: five on a tramp steamer and bought Rubber Soul. The 538 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 3: week it came out that winter November December, bought it 539 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 3: in Liverpool. I got deported for a lot of reasons 540 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 3: for playing in bands without a work permit, from escaping 541 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 3: from a ship, blah blah blah. I made a lot 542 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 3: of noise, and I was in all the newspapers and 543 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 3: even in the mirror in London. I was stories about 544 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 3: my adventures. But I was on the front pages of 545 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 3: the Liverpool in particular the Liverpool Echo, which is the 546 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 3: big newspaper in Liverpool. And I got deported and changed 547 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 3: mind you really, they won't take any chances that was 548 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,799 Speaker 3: going to escape again. And that was in sixty five. 549 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 3: So now go forward so many years and I'm at 550 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 3: record plant working and John is down the hall in 551 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 3: another room with everybody doing overdubs, and you know, working 552 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 3: on Imagine. He'd come over from England where they'd done 553 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 3: a bunch of tracks, and now they were doing some 554 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 3: more tracks and doing all the overdubs. My job, because 555 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 3: I was a good editor, was down the hall in 556 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 3: another small room, was to edit these some of these 557 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,240 Speaker 3: tracks and prepare them for more for multi tracking, because 558 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 3: there were run eight tracks and they wanted to go 559 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 3: to sixteen track. There were handwritten notes from John. You know, 560 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 3: don't edit the masters. Make sure you edit the copies 561 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 3: that you're going to make when you're going to edit here. Anyway, 562 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 3: I was hearing most of the album before anybody else 563 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:56,360 Speaker 3: was hearing it, because I was editing and transferring. About 564 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 3: four or five days into this whole project, the door 565 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 3: opened and said John comes into the room. And nearly 566 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 3: peed myself because I didn't think I would be having 567 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 3: contact with him. I thought, I'm good enough having this 568 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:15,439 Speaker 3: gig as an editor. And he sits down. He says, okay, 569 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 3: if I hang out in here, I'm just looking for 570 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 3: a place that's not so noisy. I knew he was, 571 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,879 Speaker 3: and I figured he was trying to get away from 572 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 3: Phil had a terrible reputation specter, that is. And so 573 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 3: he sat on a couch on the other side of 574 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 3: a console, so I only could see his feet up 575 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 3: on the glass and cigarette smoke. And I said, I'm 576 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 3: editing your stuff, and he was like, yay, okay, thanks, 577 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 3: so you're doing a great job. He just kind of 578 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 3: blew me off and he sat there and smoked, and 579 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 3: about five minutes into this process of me working quietly, 580 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 3: I said to him, I've been to Liverpool, and his 581 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,399 Speaker 3: head popped up and he said really. He said, where 582 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 3: are you from. I said, I'm born and raised in 583 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 3: New York City, So why would you want to go 584 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 3: to Liverpool? Everybody there wants to come here, including me, 585 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 3: and you know it's it's not a great place, not 586 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,280 Speaker 3: a tourist place. I said, well, I was a musician, 587 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 3: and you know, I really wanted to swim into Mersey. 588 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,120 Speaker 3: I wanted to know everything about the music scene there, 589 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 3: and which was really cool because I got to hang 590 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 3: in the original Caravin Club, which was amazing thing to 591 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 3: do back then. So he looked at me and he said, well, 592 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 3: how did that work out? And I said, well, good 593 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,759 Speaker 3: and bad? I said bad, I got deported, but good. 594 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 3: I made a lot of noise before I did. And 595 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 3: he looked at me and he said, were you one 596 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,280 Speaker 3: of the crazy Yanks that was in all the newspapers 597 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 3: And I said, yeah, that was me, because it's me 598 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,799 Speaker 3: and my buddy I talked to going with me. Yeah, 599 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,359 Speaker 3: another guitar player. He said, you know, we looked at 600 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,360 Speaker 3: the pictures of these two guys on the front page 601 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 3: of our newspaper that we put out an album that 602 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 3: should have been just us all over the front page, 603 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,839 Speaker 3: these two Yanks making all this noise in Liverpool. And 604 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 3: I said, yeah, that was me. And he said, and 605 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:14,879 Speaker 3: in one of the pictures that was on the front 606 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 3: page as my guitar les Paul custom. He said to me, right, well, 607 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,439 Speaker 3: he remembered that because that made the impression on them. 608 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 3: He said to me, you still had that less Paul. 609 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 3: He said, no, it's a long gone. He said. I 610 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 3: can't believe all the places I walk into and there's 611 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 3: this guy I'm meeting now. That was someone that you know, 612 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 3: we laughed about, you know, in Liverpool and did all 613 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 3: this stuff. He said, what are you doing? I said, like, 614 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,880 Speaker 3: I said, I'm editing your stuff because you're an engineer. 615 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,839 Speaker 3: I said yes. He goes, okay, you're on the project, said, 616 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 3: Yoko is going to know that there's some deeper meaning 617 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 3: in us meeting you, you know. After a session or two, 618 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 3: he said, dude, where do you live? And I told 619 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 3: him in the village. He said, we do too. We're 620 00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 3: on Bank Street. Let me give you a ride home. 621 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 3: And then one time on the way down to the village, 622 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 3: you see the only place where we can get a 623 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,279 Speaker 3: late bite to eat, And I said, sure, I know 624 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 3: a million places where I can get you in the 625 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:13,040 Speaker 3: back door. And suddenly he asked me for my phone number. 626 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 3: He called me up. He said, I listen, I have 627 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:16,160 Speaker 3: to go to this party and there's going to be 628 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 3: all these people there. It was Abbi Hoffman and that 629 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 3: Crewiously just come with me because I don't really know them, 630 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,440 Speaker 3: and you can watch my back. Started hanging with him 631 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,240 Speaker 3: and we became friends, and then he said to me, listen, 632 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 3: I want you to do these Yoko records. Okay. So 633 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 3: I met with Yoko and she said, what makes you 634 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 3: think you can do my records? And I said to her, 635 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,399 Speaker 3: because I was really an avant guard John Cage Fan 636 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 3: and all these ourgard jazz guys. And I said to her, 637 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 3: because I don't care if when you play the piano 638 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 3: you're inside it or outside of it. And she said 639 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 3: that's good. That's good. And so I did just all 640 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 3: these records with her. Sometimes John would be producing them, 641 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:04,879 Speaker 3: or we'd be sitting next to me while we did them. 642 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 3: It was a good run with her, and because of 643 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,239 Speaker 3: that trust, that's why I ended up producing, because they 644 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 3: both trusted me will While I was doing the Muscle 645 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 3: of Love album. We were out in La, which he 646 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 3: told me to do. He said, come out to La, 647 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 3: your producer, you can do it, or wherever you want. 648 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 3: And Warners is in La, so bring it out there. 649 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,359 Speaker 3: I'm out there. That was his lost weekend, and so 650 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 3: I became one of the original Hollywood vampires. I was 651 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,920 Speaker 3: doing that Nalys too, whom you know I frequently. I 652 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 3: drove the getaway car. That was my gig, get them 653 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:47,440 Speaker 3: out of trouble. Interesting and I had a long, long 654 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 3: relationship with him. I miss him, and I think the 655 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,799 Speaker 3: world is it would be a different place that he lived. 656 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,759 Speaker 2: If you could describe his creative process, what would it be. 657 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:05,360 Speaker 3: He worked on songs for months, if not years. He 658 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:09,640 Speaker 3: had a germ. He would work on it. And you 659 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,320 Speaker 3: know when you see that film he brought, he brought 660 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,719 Speaker 3: the Jackson film. He brought stuff to the studio to 661 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:20,680 Speaker 3: work on. Here's something I have. He always was preparing, 662 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 3: He was always writing. I mean some of the songs 663 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 3: on Double Fantasy were years old that he had demoed 664 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 3: numbers of times, and so he was well prepared. The 665 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:36,280 Speaker 3: thing that he had no patience for lollygagging in the studio, 666 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,719 Speaker 3: you know, which is why he hated Phil. Phil would want, 667 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:46,479 Speaker 3: you know, fifty takes, whereas for me and I would 668 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,000 Speaker 3: always have him to do a live vocals frequently within 669 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,920 Speaker 3: the first five takes. You had it, and he knew it, 670 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,399 Speaker 3: and I knew it, and the musicians knew it as well. 671 00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:00,400 Speaker 3: It wasn't and I was always a step ahead of 672 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,239 Speaker 3: him the whole time we were working, and so he 673 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:08,000 Speaker 3: loved that. He liked to be, you know, somebody was 674 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,839 Speaker 3: always prepared for him to do what he wanted to do. 675 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:15,239 Speaker 3: And I think that's why we got along. In the 676 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 3: last few years before he passed away, I became very 677 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:23,239 Speaker 3: good friends with Jeff Emeric and he would be over 678 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 3: my house for dinner. We would do mixes together. We 679 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:27,360 Speaker 3: had a lot of time when we talked about John 680 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:30,680 Speaker 3: and he said to me, I wish I knew the 681 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,960 Speaker 3: John that you talk about, because he knew the angry 682 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:40,840 Speaker 3: John from the Apparently he could get very angry and 683 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:45,680 Speaker 3: the Beatle I know that alcohol didn't it was not 684 00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 3: good for John at all. It was kind of he 685 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,440 Speaker 3: would get angry that I saw while we were in California. 686 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 3: He was just he was just amazing. That whole summer 687 00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:57,919 Speaker 3: we were working on that record, and then later into 688 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:02,680 Speaker 3: the fall, while we were doing Walking into Nice, you ran. 689 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:08,760 Speaker 2: Into these guys from Boston in seventy four named Daro Smith. 690 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,319 Speaker 2: How many how many years were shaved off of your 691 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,080 Speaker 2: life from beginning that ride with them? 692 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:20,440 Speaker 3: Ten years? Ten years were shaved off my life, not 693 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:27,200 Speaker 3: those years, but later years. I mean, I'm thirty years sober. 694 00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:32,359 Speaker 3: But there's there's a lot of you knows. As their 695 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,759 Speaker 3: drug got used, you just got worse. I mean I 696 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 3: was always like the straight guy, you know, I thought 697 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,000 Speaker 3: to keep this session together when it was over. When 698 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,440 Speaker 3: the session was over, there, I was smoking your joint 699 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:50,279 Speaker 3: when it was over. But yeah, as their drug use 700 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:56,560 Speaker 3: got worse, they exposed me to a few things that 701 00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:01,759 Speaker 3: later in my life became a problem. And then so yeah, 702 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,480 Speaker 3: I lost some time, but none of it while I 703 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:05,680 Speaker 3: was working with them. 704 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:11,399 Speaker 2: Now, how often did crisis management enter into your job 705 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:12,799 Speaker 2: description working with them? 706 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:19,560 Speaker 3: It depends on what you call crisis management. You know, 707 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:25,560 Speaker 3: get your wings toys in the attic Rocks, they were 708 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:32,480 Speaker 3: all they were all really creative periods for the band, 709 00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:36,839 Speaker 3: and and they welcomed my input so that I was 710 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,040 Speaker 3: like a member of the band. We did months sometimes 711 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:44,839 Speaker 3: of pre production, and and it wasn't till we were 712 00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:48,360 Speaker 3: doing Draw the Line that it became became a problem 713 00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,080 Speaker 3: because they would stay in there. We were in a 714 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:56,640 Speaker 3: had been a nunnery of state New York, Westchester County actually, 715 00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,080 Speaker 3: and they all had their own rooms and free Some 716 00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,080 Speaker 3: of them wouldn't come out of their rooms for three 717 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:07,120 Speaker 3: four days. That was the That was the crisis. As 718 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:12,400 Speaker 3: far as working with them or having fights or not 719 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:17,799 Speaker 3: so much. No, you know, I've always been the good politician. 720 00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,960 Speaker 3: You know, my thing is listen to the band first. 721 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:24,759 Speaker 3: First of all. You know, my job is to make 722 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:29,520 Speaker 3: a band's dreams come true, you know, not mine. And 723 00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,440 Speaker 3: you know they understood that. That's the way it was. 724 00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 3: And so although we didn't have to talk about it, 725 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 3: that's the way I approached all of that stuff with them. 726 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,680 Speaker 3: We worked hard together, you know. I mean, sure Stephen 727 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:44,319 Speaker 3: would come in and say, I get sing that better, 728 00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:45,719 Speaker 3: and I was saying, I don't know if you can. 729 00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:47,880 Speaker 3: But if he said he could sing it better, I 730 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:48,560 Speaker 3: went with it. 731 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:51,880 Speaker 4: You co wrote Kings and Queens, didn't you. 732 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,279 Speaker 3: Yes? Did you see that's at the point where the 733 00:45:55,320 --> 00:46:00,160 Speaker 3: band wasn't writing. I mean I contributed a lot as 734 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:04,040 Speaker 3: a writer previous to that, but I always thought that's 735 00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:06,880 Speaker 3: my job as a producer. You know. People told me 736 00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:11,319 Speaker 3: many years later that was a big mistake, but I don't. 737 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:15,000 Speaker 3: I don't think so, because now every producer is a writer. 738 00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,360 Speaker 3: You know. It's like that's where you get your publishing 739 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,759 Speaker 3: and blah blah blah blah. But at that point I 740 00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:25,800 Speaker 3: had to start writing because they were losing their productivity. 741 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:27,960 Speaker 3: I like Kings and Queens. 742 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,239 Speaker 2: I think it's Oh, I love that one. I love 743 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:34,040 Speaker 2: that too. That's a great one, but so many great ones. 744 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,640 Speaker 2: You know, being in Boston for so long and part 745 00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,279 Speaker 2: of the Boston scene, you got a big fan of 746 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:41,359 Speaker 2: Aerosmith right here. 747 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:46,560 Speaker 3: Oh great, Yeah, I'm still a big fan. I'm the 748 00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:50,359 Speaker 3: peace Out tour should be interesting. When they were doing 749 00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:54,480 Speaker 3: Vegas the residency in Vegas, my my son was in 750 00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:58,000 Speaker 3: the band as a percussionist. My son, Colin is a 751 00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:04,879 Speaker 3: Latin jazz guy, a couple of Grammy nominations as a 752 00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:08,520 Speaker 3: jazz artists. But Joe liked to work with him on 753 00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:13,719 Speaker 3: his solo stuff, and so when they did this residency, 754 00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:17,040 Speaker 3: he wanted him to play all the tambourines and congas 755 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,560 Speaker 3: and bells, and so that's what he was doing. Could 756 00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,879 Speaker 3: sing too. So what are you working on now, Jack, 757 00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:33,040 Speaker 3: she's because I have a label. Yeah. Well, the first 758 00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:38,239 Speaker 3: act that we signed was the Detroit Youth Choir and they, 759 00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,400 Speaker 3: of course were huge hits on America's Got Talent twice 760 00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:47,680 Speaker 3: there were huge hits and and so I produced that 761 00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:53,880 Speaker 3: record in Detroit called rock Spell. I called it Detroit 762 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:58,200 Speaker 3: Rock Band with this youth choir singing classic R and 763 00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:01,480 Speaker 3: B s. It's available on our site. And then the 764 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:06,040 Speaker 3: next artist I signed was Robin Taylor Xander, who's Robin 765 00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,880 Speaker 3: Xander's son. That album is out now. We just dropped 766 00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:14,680 Speaker 3: acoustic and acoustic version of I and Low, although the 767 00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:16,759 Speaker 3: single version of it is already out in the whole 768 00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:21,239 Speaker 3: record is available on every platform. Detroit Youth Choir won 769 00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:25,400 Speaker 3: us a gospel about two weeks ago, won us a 770 00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:29,520 Speaker 3: gospel version of the Grammys for the record that we did, 771 00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,879 Speaker 3: so that's pretty cool. And last week I was in 772 00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:38,600 Speaker 3: Los Angeles talking with Disney because Disney has picked up 773 00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,760 Speaker 3: the Detroit Youth Choir for a mini series called Choir, 774 00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:49,360 Speaker 3: and so we have the record and they have the 775 00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:54,279 Speaker 3: the miniseries could be a good combination. I've been doing 776 00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:59,920 Speaker 3: a lot of film scores. I've got on a person 777 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,279 Speaker 3: personality crist I just worked with Marius Grssi and Ron 778 00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:07,880 Speaker 3: Howard on a personality Crisis One Night Only, which is 779 00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:14,279 Speaker 3: on Showtime. Now. I've got two films going into the 780 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:18,799 Speaker 3: festival circuit that I composed the music for. One is 781 00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:23,560 Speaker 3: called The Trust in Love Contemporary Ron Tom takes place 782 00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:27,200 Speaker 3: in Malibu, and the other one is The Carol Dotas Story, 783 00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:31,120 Speaker 3: which is the documentary about the first topless dancer in 784 00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:35,400 Speaker 3: San Francisco, which is cool. I just last night watched 785 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:39,520 Speaker 3: the completed film with my score, and it's pretty cool. 786 00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:45,360 Speaker 3: It's amazing how what footage they have of that period 787 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:49,200 Speaker 3: that she was, what was happening in San Francisco from 788 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:57,000 Speaker 3: nineteen sixty four through the early seventies, a lot San Francisco. 789 00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:02,440 Speaker 3: It was amazing. And then I've got an artist named 790 00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,239 Speaker 3: Ellie Low that is I'll be in the studio in 791 00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:09,600 Speaker 3: Los Angeles with her this coming month producing her. She's 792 00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:14,920 Speaker 3: really amazing. She's out of Atlanta. And then my partner 793 00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:19,319 Speaker 3: on we have two labels under one umbrella. I have 794 00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:23,839 Speaker 3: Confidential Records, New York City, dot com n Y that's 795 00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:29,000 Speaker 3: Confidential Records NYC dot com a good website too. And 796 00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:35,120 Speaker 3: my partner under the same umbrella is Make Records, and 797 00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:39,040 Speaker 3: he's a little bit different than me. He's tigning members 798 00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:44,800 Speaker 3: of Ghosts and he's got a group called Silver Plains. 799 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:50,439 Speaker 3: It's a little harder rock than what I usually do. Well. 800 00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:55,040 Speaker 3: I produce outside acts. I have a request for some 801 00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:59,919 Speaker 3: group in England called Xander and the Pirates. I might 802 00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,600 Speaker 3: I may do that. I may do it. And and 803 00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:07,839 Speaker 3: I today got a message from a guy who has 804 00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:11,000 Speaker 3: since we were speaking of the who has the license 805 00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,720 Speaker 3: for all of this, UH has all this ant whistle 806 00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:20,080 Speaker 3: incomplete material that the family has licensed to him to complete. 807 00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,760 Speaker 3: So that could be interesting. I started listening to it today. 808 00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,040 Speaker 3: You know that's keeping me very busy. All of this, 809 00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:29,799 Speaker 3: I mean, the label keeps me really busy and on 810 00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:33,359 Speaker 3: the go all the time. You know, people said, you want, 811 00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:35,560 Speaker 3: you know, actually retire. What am I going to do? 812 00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,759 Speaker 3: You know, I'm qualified to be the bag boy at 813 00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:42,040 Speaker 3: stopping shop. Even though right up on the wall up 814 00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:46,879 Speaker 3: there you see John Jack Douglas, doctor of Music. It 815 00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:50,439 Speaker 3: is right up there on the wall. But that'll get 816 00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:53,120 Speaker 3: you a bag boy job, and now there aren't any 817 00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:55,480 Speaker 3: bag boy jobs because I made it and you got 818 00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:58,440 Speaker 3: to pack at yourself, so I would basically be unemployed. 819 00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:01,160 Speaker 3: So I like what I'm doing. 820 00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:05,799 Speaker 2: I am so grateful for our friend Drew Lane for 821 00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:10,719 Speaker 2: connecting us out of Detroit, and I'm so glad that 822 00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,040 Speaker 2: you've been on Taking a Walk. Thank you for the 823 00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,680 Speaker 2: stories and for the music. Jack Douglas, amazing. 824 00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:19,760 Speaker 3: You're very welcome. Good to see you. Thanks for listening 825 00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:23,040 Speaker 3: to this episode of the Taking a Walk podcast. Share 826 00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:26,160 Speaker 3: this and other episodes with your friends and follow us 827 00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:29,400 Speaker 3: so you never miss an episode. Taking a Walk is 828 00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:34,120 Speaker 3: available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you 829 00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:35,279 Speaker 3: get your podcasts