WEBVTT - STBYM Listener Mail: 2025 Mailbag Eversion 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:06.040 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:12.840 Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:14.240 name is Robert Lamb. 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.119 And I am Joe McCormick, and today we're bringing you 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:20.560 some messages from the Stuff to Blow your Mind email address. 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:22.520 If you're a listener and you have never gotten in 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:24.960 touch before, why not give it a try. You can 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:28.440 email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:32.320 dot com. Messages of all types are welcome. Of course. 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:35.400 We really appreciate if you have anything interesting you'd like 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:38.000 to add to a topic we've talked about on the show. 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:40.519 If you have corrections you need to offer, those are 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:43.800 of course very welcome if you have If you want 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:46.240 to suggest a topic for the future, we like that too. 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:49.559 Sometimes we do follow up on topics that were suggested 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:52.680 by listeners. But whatever it is, send it our way 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:56.680 contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. So 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:00.680 this is our first recording after the Christmas week, robbed it. 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:02.720 Did you have a good holiday with the family. 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:05.080 Yeah, yeah, pretty good. I have to admit though, it 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:08.760 does feel like a strange nether zone that I find 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:12.720 myself then, because we're we're recording this between Christmas and 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:17.759 New Year's We've just had some unseasonably warm weather. Yes, 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:21.680 and you know, every day feels completely discombobulated. So I 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:24.360 have no idea, you know, moment to moment, what day 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:27.760 it is, what season it is, how I fit into 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:29.880 the world around me. All I know is that we 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:33.840 have a certain amount of listener mail to get to. 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:35.800 But how about yourself? How was your holiday? 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:38.319 Oh? You know, I had a great time with the family. 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:40.360 Loved to see and everybody. We you know, did some 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:43.280 I did some cooking and some hosting, and then we 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.880 also had the different little family gatherings which were very nice. 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:49.680 Though on Christmas Day itself, of you know, I think 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:51.080 it was the same for y'all. It's like in the 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:55.480 seventies and I had a cold, so it's just kind 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:58.960 of gross. But uh but yeah, you know, good holiday 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:04.480 times and not a single exploding lollipop or flying material 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:05.040 was found. 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:09.799 Excellent. Yeah. I think Santa Claus has really been forced 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:15.960 via various environmental laws to really tightly contain his various 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.239 miracle candies so they do not phone to the hands. 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:22.320 Of the children. Okay, yeah, all right, Well should we 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:24.000 jump right into the emails? 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:25.000 Yeah? What do we have. 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:28.240 Let's see this first one. I'm gonna do this one 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:32.280 from Lauren, which is a late coming email about our 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:36.440 episodes on the Ignobel Prizes for this year. I think 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:44.600 this is Yeah, she'll explain which one it's about. So 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:47.840 Lauren says, hello, Robin Joe. I was just listening to 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:51.920 your episode on the Ignobel Prizes Part one and the 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:56.080 bit about narcissism made me think about different forms of 0:02:56.240 --> 0:03:00.840 praise and how they affect human behavior according to this video, 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:03.799 and then she inserts a video I'll explain in a second. 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:07.280 Lauren says, praising kids by telling them that they are 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:12.639 smart or intelligent makes them fear looking unintelligent, so they 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:16.600 avoid challenges and stagnate, whereas kids who are praised for 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:20.000 their effort or process when engaging in a task are 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:23.239 more likely to develop a desire to take on challenges 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:28.040 and therefore are more likely to experience growth. Now, I 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:30.880 thought I should follow up with this video that Lauren 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:33.720 attached and talk about it a bit, so just to explain. 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:36.880 This is a video of part of a lecture by 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:41.240 the American psychologist Carol Dweck of Stanford making the case 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:44.960 for what Laurence said based on Dwex's own research and 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:47.080 I was reading a bit about this, I should note 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:51.840 that while focusing on process based praise or effort based 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:56.600 praise over attribute based praise does absolutely make sense to 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.440 me on an intuitive level. I've read that there's some 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:01.840 disagree in the field, Like, from what I can tell, 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.520 it's not so much that process based praise is bad, 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:09.720 but there's dispute about to what extent process based praise 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:13.640 actually leads to measurably better outcomes in learning and things 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:16.960 like that. Some other psychologists have been unable to replicate 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:20.039 the original results reported here, so I can't give you 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:23.560 an answer on whether it gets measurable results on average 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:26.560 or not. But I will say I personally try to 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:29.760 focus more on effort based praise with my own child, 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:32.120 just because it just kind of feels like the right 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.359 thing to do for us, and it seems to me 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:37.160 to get better results at least, you know, in our 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:41.840 one case. Yeah, So I wouldn't want to overclaim anything 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:45.600 that's not really proven about the potential negative effects of 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.159 like attribute based praise. You know, telling a kid you're 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:52.320 so smart instead of praising them for trying hard at something, 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:56.120 and you know, or trying again after they fail, things 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:59.120 like that. I do think it's it is obvious, at 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:01.920 least at some level, that there are forms of praise 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:06.040 that can be incredibly toxic and pathological, like praise that 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:10.159 makes it seem like love is conditional, or praise that 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:13.919 gives children a sense of superiority over their peers, things 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.880 like that. Obviously, there is such a thing as toxic praise. 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:20.280 Yeah, yeah, I mean you like, in my family, we 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:24.200 try to maintain a kind of like growth mindset with everything, 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:27.240 and you know, I put an emphasis on always learning, 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:31.920 always growing, and yeah, I can imagine various toxic forms 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:34.480 of praise where you're kind of implying you are perfect 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:38.400 as is there's no need for additional growth. Yeah. Yeah, 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:40.880 so yeah, I mean, as with all of it, there's 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:42.400 a careful balance to maintain. 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:46.680 Yeah. Anyway, but back to Lauren's message. So about this 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:52.120 idea of praising process or effort versus praising attributes, Lauren says, 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:54.560 I think there is merit to this. I also think 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:57.680 it's kind of scary how certain forms of praise can 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:01.600 really damage people over time. It's a sad irony. I 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:04.360 think that's true. Yeah, because you know, when you're praising somebody, 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:06.120 it kind of feels like, well, that's always got to 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:11.599 be good, right, Lauren says on a somewhat related note, 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:14.640 I've been in a half dozen or more situations in life, 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:17.960 whether it be with classmates or at camp or whatnot, 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:21.159 where there comes a point when everyone has to write 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:25.200 little compliment notes to everyone else. I've experienced the best 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:28.200 results when I praise people for what I determine they 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:31.960 like or value most about themselves, as opposed to what 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:35.680 I actually like or think about them. For example, if 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:38.479 Jane thinks she's a really good artist, even if I 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:41.800 think she's a terrible artist, praising her for her abilities 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:44.960 seem to most effectively achieve the goal of the activity. 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:47.839 I don't really mind that it's kind of dishonest, because 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.960 the whole point was to make people feel special and valued. 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:53.200 This makes a lot of sense to me, because if 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:56.520 someone compliments me for something I don't value about myself, 0:06:56.640 --> 0:07:00.120 I don't feel good or perhaps anything, don't feel anything 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:04.200 about their words, and often the compliment produces a negative reaction, 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:07.200 so the good intentions are lost. The power of different 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:10.600 forms of praise is definitely an interesting topic. Thanks for 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:13.720 dedicating your time and energy to crafting an intelligent, amusing, 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:18.400 and well researched podcast. Lauren. Well, thank you, Lauren. Several 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.040 thoughts about this. First of all, Yeah, I think the 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:23.280 power of different forms of praise would be a really 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:27.960 interesting topic to come back to. And I also agree 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:32.040 with your idea about focusing on praising what people value 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:35.160 about themselves instead of what they don't really care about 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:37.200 about themselves. That makes a lot of sense, and I 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.000 do want to come back to that in a minute. Though. 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.000 The one thing I do I please don't feel judged, Lauren, 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:45.160 but just I want to give my perspective. I want 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:47.320 to make it clear that we're not necessarily endorsing the 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:51.000 idea of giving untruthful praise. After I read this email, 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:54.200 I was thinking about this a lot. And of course, 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:56.000 you know, not trying to come off as high and 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:58.120 mighty or like I think I'm the King of honesty. 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:02.200 You know, we all, at least occasionally, you know, use 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:05.480 little positive exaggerations and things like that that help help 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.560 sweeten and ease our relationships. And I've done this too, 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:12.960 But when given the opportunity to reflect, I really do 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:16.160 think in general it's better to be as truthful as 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:18.320 you can with people, even if you're just talking about 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:24.440 praise and compliments. Even positive little lies can just create 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:29.320 unpredictable problems for your future self, Like if people later 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:32.480 find out that a compliment you gave them was insincere, 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:35.840 that will probably hurt them a lot more than not 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:39.240 getting a compliment in the first place. And I think 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:44.080 also when you misrepresent your feelings or thoughts about things, 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:47.840 it has the downside of essentially gumming up the works 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:51.160 of your mind, Like it creates these inefficiencies where you 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:53.600 have to remember what you've told people in the past. 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:57.480 So in computer terms, it's kind of like, you know, 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:00.960 you're running multiple virtual machines and your brain instead of 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:05.120 just running directly on the hardware. But yeah, so that 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:08.440 caveat aside to coming back to the first part. When 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:11.000 you are able to do so truthfully, I think finding 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:15.000 things to compliment that people value about themselves is a 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:18.640 really good insight in a way, it's having a sympathetic 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:23.160 identification with the person. It's a way of complimenting them 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:26.319 that sees them from their own perspective instead of from 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:29.640 the outside perspective. And like you allude to, I think 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:33.920 with this connection to praising process instead of attributes, if 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:37.240 it's something they value about themselves, I think that usually 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.560 means that it's something that they have put effort into, 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:43.960 which is its own kind of reward to have somebody 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:45.280 acknowledge and notice. 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:48.199 Yeah. I mean, like with the couple of things, I 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:51.400 guess with first of all, with the example here, Jane 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:56.120 is an artist. Art is very subjective, so you know, 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:59.280 there's a lot of wiggle room there. And also I 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:03.400 think when complimenting someone, you know, I mean, you can 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:08.200 probably find something you like about the thing that they value. 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:11.000 You know, there's got to be something there, even if 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:14.360 it's not like your art, you know, the kind of 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.120 art you would personally put on your wall, there must 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:20.319 be something you can say, yeah, you know, get creative, 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:22.920 find that place where where truth meets praise. 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:26.600 I guess, yeah, totally. All right, thank you, Lauren. Let's 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:28.080 see Rob, you want to grab one of these next 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:28.560 fore you here? 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.640 Yeah, we have another one here related to the Ignobel 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:35.160 Prizes episode. This one I think is we determine his 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:38.920 response to the study about rainbow lizards that steal pizza. 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:43.880 Yeah, stealing pizza from a resort like restaurant tables in Togo, 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.920 so that and the study was about what kinds of 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:52.000 pizza the lizards like the most. That also led us 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:56.440 into talking about the most constipated lizard ever documented, which 0:10:56.440 --> 0:11:00.840 had been found eating sand, presumably soaked in pizza, outside 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:04.680 of a Florida pizzeria. And then I think that led 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:07.360 to us just generally talking about animals learning to get 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:11.320 quite aggressive at snatching human food in these, you know, 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:14.040 environments where human activity and animal life meet. 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:17.120 All right, well, this one comes to us from Bruce. 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:25.640 Bruce says, Hi, Robert Joe, your recent episode on this 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:29.360 year's Ignobel Prize winning research brought to mind an encounter 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:32.840 with a hungry, maybe angry bird. I was living in 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:35.040 New York City at the time and would often take 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:38.640 weekend day trips to Atlantic City. The casinos were in 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:42.280 competition with each other and offered varying cast back incentives 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.719 to bus riders when they would disembark at their establishment. 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.319 Sometimes the cashback would even be a dollar or two 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:51.840 over the cost of the ticket. Anyway, on such a trip, 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:55.000 I remember walking along the boardwalk. It was an overcast, 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:59.320 late fall day, somewhat blustery, so the summer crowds, along 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.320 with their drop food concessions the goals would pick up 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.880 had long since thenned out. I noticed a goal, a 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:09.480 seagull on a descent, flying towards me. I also then 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:12.720 noticed a woman walking in my direction holding a funnel 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:13.640 cake on a plate. 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:14.560 Uh oh. 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:17.160 The goal had apparently also seen the funnel cake and 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:19.880 decided it was going to be an easy theft, as 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:23.080 it suddenly dove over the woman's shoulder from behind and 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:27.480 tried to grab the pastry. What it had not anticipated was, 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:30.199 since it was a windy day, the woman was holding 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:33.120 her treat quite firmly against the plate it was on. 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:36.120 The plate ended up acting like a fulcrumb, and the 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.000 momentum the bird had caused it to cartwheel into a 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:44.080 face plant beak plant against the boardwalk. It staggered to 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.160 its feet and took a couple of wobbly steps before 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:48.440 it tried to take off again. But I had continued 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:52.200 walking forward, not anticipating all this commotion, so had narrowed 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:55.000 the distance between myself and the location of the intended 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.360 theft and its aftermath. As the bird became airborne, it 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:01.960 swam directly into my chest, right below my chin, it 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:04.679 fell once again to the boardwalk. I don't really know 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:07.400 what an embarrassed indignant face looks like on a goal, 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.840 but if there is one, this goal had it, Bruce, 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:13.719 And then I believe Bruce included a note or this 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:17.000 might have been your note that Bruce, this is from Okay. 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:20.839 Bruce also reminds us that he is the former theater 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.520 manager who previously wrote in with memories of showing Kroll 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:24.800 and the Last Starfighter. 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:30.440 All right, here's another amazing adventure you got to witness first. 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:34.120 And seagulls, you know, they will, they will go for it. 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:36.760 I've watched one grab a hot dog off of a 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:40.160 hot grill once at the beach. They will, they will, 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:43.400 They'll get it if they absolutely can. Now, as for 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:45.839 what the funnel cake truly had to offer the bird, 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:46.920 I'm not sure. 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:50.480 The seagull grabbed the hot dog off the grill with 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:51.000 its beak. 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:54.040 You said, uh, yeah, I mean I was not the griller, 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.360 so I don't know what the temperature of the grill was, like, 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:58.480 what part of the grill and this was observed from 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:01.560 a farm, but seemed to make off with it, so 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.760 I don't know. Maybe the grill was dying down. I'm 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:05.160 not sure. 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:06.920 I'm trying to imagine. So it's a seagull, so it 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:09.920 wouldn't be grabbing with talons like an eagle or something. 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:12.640 It would be beak down to grab I suppose. 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:15.760 So again I wasn't close enough and or my memory 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:19.320 is not as firm. I just remember the goal getting 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:21.400 the hot dog, and that was the that was the 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:22.640 important part of the tale. 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:37.000 Okay, alrighty, let's see this next message comes from Joe, 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.920 not myself, a different Joe. Joe says, oh in the 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:45.200 subject line is AI, chatbots and narcissistic behavior. This is 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:49.360 in response to us. Actually it's the same Ignobel winning 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:52.280 psychology paper which Lauren was writing about. So this was 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:56.240 the paper which found, among other things, that telling people 0:14:56.400 --> 0:15:00.840 that an IQ test has deemed them very smart has 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:04.680 a tendency to increase, at least temporarily, a couple of 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:09.720 particular narcissistic traits. I think they called this state narcissism. 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.720 And the question was not resolved by the paper, but 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:18.440 the question was could this overtime lead to the actual 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:22.120 inculcation of trait narcissism? So, like, you know, causing these 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:26.120 states of narcissism makes somebody more permanently narcissistic over time. 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:30.040 And in our discussion of that paper, we ended up 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:32.800 talking about AI chat bots and the fact that they 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:37.280 often really shower the user with ridiculous flattery. You know, Oh, 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:41.160 that's such an intelligent question, very perceptive insight. Thank you user, 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:42.560 Please keep using the service. 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:46.760 Yeah, I think we talked about this. I've experimented with 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:48.560 this a little bit before and found that, yeah, I 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:53.000 can if I asked one of these systems about something 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:56.040 that is ultimately a stretch, some sort of connections stretch 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:58.880 between a particular movie and a particular theme or something, 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:01.800 it's still it still wants to compliment me on that 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:04.680 correct on that connection that I've made, as opposed to saying, well, 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:07.440 that's a real stretch and maybe you're the only one 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:08.480 thinking about it this way. 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.400 The flattery is one of the many reasons that I 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:15.200 you know that these tools can be useful in certain ways, 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:18.320 but you just shouldn't depend on them too much for 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:21.360 truth or anything, because yeah, they're you know, they're doing 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:24.040 something other than just purely trying to serve you up 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:28.640 truthful information. They're they're trying to inculcate a user relationship. 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:31.320 So they want to flatter you, and they also are 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:33.440 going to you know, hallucinate to try to give you 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:37.960 stuff that fulfills what you ask for. Yeah, anyway, so 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:41.800 Joe says, Hey, Robin, Joe, love your Ignobel episodes, which 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.640 often provides some of my favorite anecdotes to share with 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:47.760 my kids. Cats are liquid is still a catchphrase in 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:51.560 the family castle. Oh that warms my heart. A recent 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:57.360 article in futurism that website futurism dot com shines an 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:01.760 interesting light on the segment on self assessed Intelligence and 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:05.600 your musings on AI's tendency to putting it delicately, blow 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:10.400 smoke up your and then Joe says, wait, that's not delicate. 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:14.919 Maybe skip reading this part anyway, Joe says, a thirty 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:19.520 year old IT professional wound up being repeatedly hospitalized, losing 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:23.520 his job, and being diagnosed with a severe manic episode 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.960 after a large language model falsely validated his theories about 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.439 faster than light travel. This is one example of a 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:35.840 phenomenon that's been termed AI psychosis colloquially. It's not a 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:39.919 DSM disorder or anything, and often comes back to the 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:43.560 way LMS ten to tend towards flattery and affirmation of 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:47.600 the user, even when the user is making obvious, catastrophic, 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:51.800 even dangerous mistakes. This lends credence to your musing about 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:56.600 AI and the hypothesis that repeated flattery might aggregate over time. 0:17:56.880 --> 0:18:00.640 Interesting says, It's easy to see how this feature could 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:03.960 be dangerous to a more fragile mind. Not my mind, 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:07.440 of course, my mental health is the best. At least 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:12.400 that's what my LLM tells me. Joe, Yeah, thanks, Joe. Obviously, 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:14.199 I think a lot of people have probably heard of 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:18.680 these stories at this point about various forms of AI psychosis. 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:22.399 I mean, I think there can be similar effects, but 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:25.240 probably just not to the same degree that it's having 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:29.399 on people with typical mental health using it all the time. 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:33.200 But especially Yeah, if you have certain kinds of mental 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.520 health conditions, getting into a back and forth with one 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:40.720 of these affirming programs can definitely lead you in dangerous places. Yeah, 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.960 because it's just trying to hype you up and saying yes, yes, 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:46.080 that's right. You know, you are on the verge of 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:46.960 a great discovery. 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:50.480 Yeah, And like so many things with technology, of course, 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.320 you know, it's already out there and we're kind of 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:58.560 playing ketchup figuring out exactly how everybody responds to these systems. 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:04.880 So yeah, interesting times, interesting times. Yeah, all right, let's 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:06.800 move on to one. This one comes to us from Lee, 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:11.000 and this is responding to our episodes Unlicking, though specifically 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:12.920 this one was a response to the first episode, so 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:15.360 I think it came in between the publication of one 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:23.440 and two. Lee says, greetings were ob, Joe and JJ 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.800 very interesting first episode on licking your request for experiences 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:30.520 regarding licking and spitting. I recall a number of movies 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:32.960 and TV shows for my youth that involved kids making 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:36.320 deals of varying types. Almost always the deal was sealed 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:38.919 with a handshake. A key element of the handshake was 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:41.520 for each deal maker to spit in their palm prior 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:44.840 to the handshake. This was always to emphasize the importance 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.840 of the deal on some level. Hearing about licking, I 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:50.800 would presume the fact that kids doing the deal were 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:54.719 outdoors doing well kid things. My presumption would be that 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:57.520 their hands were too dirty to lick, but that spitting 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:00.960 into the palm was okay. Ever thought about it that way, 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:05.320 I mean, I figure just kids like to spit. I 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:08.959 recall on multiple occasions licking my finger in an effort 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:13.160 to assess wind direction. Yes, another idea, more from TV 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:16.680 shows than written sources. With regard to the TUTSI pop. 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:19.080 More often than not, the start was to lick it, 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:22.119 but it would more than likely get parked between the 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:24.520 cheek and gum for most of the time. I don't 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:27.320 specifically recall if this was more an effort to make 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:29.400 it last or because I was working on some task 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:32.800 or another. Love the podcast always look forward to each episode. 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:35.400 Sincerely ly thank you Lee. 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:39.359 On the idea about licking a finger and sticking it 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:41.359 into the air to see which way the wind is blowing, 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:42.920 because you know, it gets cold on the side of 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:44.960 the wind is coming from. This reminds me that I 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:49.840 recently was watching a movie. I'm afraid I'm misremembering this, 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:52.680 but I think it was a scene in the James 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:55.760 Bond film From Russia with Love Okay, And it's a 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:58.440 scene where a character is trying to test wind direction 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:01.000 and they lick a finger and hold it up in 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:03.840 the air, but they're doing it ends in a speeding boat. 0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:08.560 I mean, maybe I'm wrong. I think that would probably 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:09.000 not work. 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:13.960 Yeah, I think you would feel cold. Yeah, I think 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:18.360 I think your results would be skewed by that. Very interesting. Yeah, 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:20.240 I haven't seen From Russia with Love in a long time. 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:25.359 Classic though, classic film. Yeah, let's see. Yeah, other I 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:27.600 mean good observation about the spitting and they hand there's 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:29.560 a lot of There is a lot of that, I 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:32.720 feel like in uh, you know kid adventure films, the 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:36.159 spit in the hand handshake. Uh. Sometimes they'll go for 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:38.679 it and do the blood bond handshake, which of course 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:43.600 is is ickier and makes you even more afraid for 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:46.240 the fact that they're outside playing and haven't washed their hands. 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:47.280 Yeah. 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:50.880 Yeah, adding self mutilation to the mix. But but yeah, 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:53.160 I guess there's a lot of spitting in palms. I'm 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:55.400 gonna have to be hyper aware of it now as 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:59.040 I watch other films. As for the TUTSI pop observation, 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:01.280 this this match up with what other people have been 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:05.040 saying as well. You know that there is active licking. Yes, 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:07.439 there's active crunching, but there's also a lot of just 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:12.920 having the pop in your mouth while you're doing other things. Generally, 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:16.960 you're not setting there actively counting the licks and only 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:18.040 focusing on the licking. 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:22.919 Okay, here's an email left over from October. This seems 0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:26.080 to be related to our past October episodes on the 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:32.359 invention of the chainsaw. This is from Hugh. Hugh says, Robert, 0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:35.840