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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My

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Speaker 2: name is Robert Lamb.

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Speaker 3: And I am Joe McCormick, and today we're bringing you

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Speaker 3: some messages from the Stuff to Blow your Mind email address.

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Speaker 3: If you're a listener and you have never gotten in

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Speaker 3: touch before, why not give it a try. You can

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Speaker 3: email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind

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Speaker 3: dot com. Messages of all types are welcome. Of course.

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Speaker 3: We really appreciate if you have anything interesting you'd like

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Speaker 3: to add to a topic we've talked about on the show.

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Speaker 3: If you have corrections you need to offer, those are

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Speaker 3: of course very welcome if you have If you want

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Speaker 3: to suggest a topic for the future, we like that too.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes we do follow up on topics that were suggested

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Speaker 3: by listeners. But whatever it is, send it our way

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Speaker 3: contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. So

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Speaker 3: this is our first recording after the Christmas week, robbed it.

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Speaker 3: Did you have a good holiday with the family.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, pretty good. I have to admit though, it

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Speaker 2: does feel like a strange nether zone that I find

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Speaker 2: myself then, because we're we're recording this between Christmas and

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Speaker 2: New Year's We've just had some unseasonably warm weather. Yes,

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Speaker 2: and you know, every day feels completely discombobulated. So I

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Speaker 2: have no idea, you know, moment to moment, what day

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Speaker 2: it is, what season it is, how I fit into

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Speaker 2: the world around me. All I know is that we

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Speaker 2: have a certain amount of listener mail to get to.

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Speaker 2: But how about yourself? How was your holiday?

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Speaker 3: Oh? You know, I had a great time with the family.

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Speaker 3: Loved to see and everybody. We you know, did some

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Speaker 3: I did some cooking and some hosting, and then we

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Speaker 3: also had the different little family gatherings which were very nice.

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Speaker 3: Though on Christmas Day itself, of you know, I think

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Speaker 3: it was the same for y'all. It's like in the

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Speaker 3: seventies and I had a cold, so it's just kind

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Speaker 3: of gross. But uh but yeah, you know, good holiday

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Speaker 3: times and not a single exploding lollipop or flying material

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Speaker 3: was found.

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Speaker 2: Excellent. Yeah. I think Santa Claus has really been forced

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Speaker 2: via various environmental laws to really tightly contain his various

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Speaker 2: miracle candies so they do not phone to the hands.

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Speaker 3: Of the children. Okay, yeah, all right, Well should we

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Speaker 3: jump right into the emails?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? What do we have.

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Speaker 3: Let's see this first one. I'm gonna do this one

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Speaker 3: from Lauren, which is a late coming email about our

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Speaker 3: episodes on the Ignobel Prizes for this year. I think

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Speaker 3: this is Yeah, she'll explain which one it's about. So

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Speaker 3: Lauren says, hello, Robin Joe. I was just listening to

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Speaker 3: your episode on the Ignobel Prizes Part one and the

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Speaker 3: bit about narcissism made me think about different forms of

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Speaker 3: praise and how they affect human behavior according to this video,

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Speaker 3: and then she inserts a video I'll explain in a second.

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Speaker 3: Lauren says, praising kids by telling them that they are

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Speaker 3: smart or intelligent makes them fear looking unintelligent, so they

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Speaker 3: avoid challenges and stagnate, whereas kids who are praised for

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Speaker 3: their effort or process when engaging in a task are

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Speaker 3: more likely to develop a desire to take on challenges

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Speaker 3: and therefore are more likely to experience growth. Now, I

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Speaker 3: thought I should follow up with this video that Lauren

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Speaker 3: attached and talk about it a bit, so just to explain.

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Speaker 3: This is a video of part of a lecture by

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Speaker 3: the American psychologist Carol Dweck of Stanford making the case

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Speaker 3: for what Laurence said based on Dwex's own research and

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Speaker 3: I was reading a bit about this, I should note

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Speaker 3: that while focusing on process based praise or effort based

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Speaker 3: praise over attribute based praise does absolutely make sense to

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Speaker 3: me on an intuitive level. I've read that there's some

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Speaker 3: disagree in the field, Like, from what I can tell,

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Speaker 3: it's not so much that process based praise is bad,

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Speaker 3: but there's dispute about to what extent process based praise

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Speaker 3: actually leads to measurably better outcomes in learning and things

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Speaker 3: like that. Some other psychologists have been unable to replicate

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Speaker 3: the original results reported here, so I can't give you

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Speaker 3: an answer on whether it gets measurable results on average

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Speaker 3: or not. But I will say I personally try to

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Speaker 3: focus more on effort based praise with my own child,

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Speaker 3: just because it just kind of feels like the right

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Speaker 3: thing to do for us, and it seems to me

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Speaker 3: to get better results at least, you know, in our

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Speaker 3: one case. Yeah, So I wouldn't want to overclaim anything

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Speaker 3: that's not really proven about the potential negative effects of

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Speaker 3: like attribute based praise. You know, telling a kid you're

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Speaker 3: so smart instead of praising them for trying hard at something,

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Speaker 3: and you know, or trying again after they fail, things

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Speaker 3: like that. I do think it's it is obvious, at

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Speaker 3: least at some level, that there are forms of praise

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Speaker 3: that can be incredibly toxic and pathological, like praise that

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Speaker 3: makes it seem like love is conditional, or praise that

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Speaker 3: gives children a sense of superiority over their peers, things

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Speaker 3: like that. Obviously, there is such a thing as toxic praise.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean you like, in my family, we

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Speaker 2: try to maintain a kind of like growth mindset with everything,

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Speaker 2: and you know, I put an emphasis on always learning,

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Speaker 2: always growing, and yeah, I can imagine various toxic forms

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Speaker 2: of praise where you're kind of implying you are perfect

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Speaker 2: as is there's no need for additional growth. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so yeah, I mean, as with all of it, there's

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Speaker 2: a careful balance to maintain.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Anyway, but back to Lauren's message. So about this

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Speaker 3: idea of praising process or effort versus praising attributes, Lauren says,

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Speaker 3: I think there is merit to this. I also think

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Speaker 3: it's kind of scary how certain forms of praise can

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Speaker 3: really damage people over time. It's a sad irony. I

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Speaker 3: think that's true. Yeah, because you know, when you're praising somebody,

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Speaker 3: it kind of feels like, well, that's always got to

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Speaker 3: be good, right, Lauren says on a somewhat related note,

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Speaker 3: I've been in a half dozen or more situations in life,

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Speaker 3: whether it be with classmates or at camp or whatnot,

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Speaker 3: where there comes a point when everyone has to write

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Speaker 3: little compliment notes to everyone else. I've experienced the best

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Speaker 3: results when I praise people for what I determine they

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Speaker 3: like or value most about themselves, as opposed to what

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Speaker 3: I actually like or think about them. For example, if

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Speaker 3: Jane thinks she's a really good artist, even if I

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Speaker 3: think she's a terrible artist, praising her for her abilities

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Speaker 3: seem to most effectively achieve the goal of the activity.

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Speaker 3: I don't really mind that it's kind of dishonest, because

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Speaker 3: the whole point was to make people feel special and valued.

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Speaker 3: This makes a lot of sense to me, because if

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Speaker 3: someone compliments me for something I don't value about myself,

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Speaker 3: I don't feel good or perhaps anything, don't feel anything

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Speaker 3: about their words, and often the compliment produces a negative reaction,

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Speaker 3: so the good intentions are lost. The power of different

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Speaker 3: forms of praise is definitely an interesting topic. Thanks for

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Speaker 3: dedicating your time and energy to crafting an intelligent, amusing,

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Speaker 3: and well researched podcast. Lauren. Well, thank you, Lauren. Several

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Speaker 3: thoughts about this. First of all, Yeah, I think the

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Speaker 3: power of different forms of praise would be a really

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Speaker 3: interesting topic to come back to. And I also agree

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Speaker 3: with your idea about focusing on praising what people value

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Speaker 3: about themselves instead of what they don't really care about

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Speaker 3: about themselves. That makes a lot of sense, and I

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Speaker 3: do want to come back to that in a minute. Though.

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Speaker 3: The one thing I do I please don't feel judged, Lauren,

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Speaker 3: but just I want to give my perspective. I want

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Speaker 3: to make it clear that we're not necessarily endorsing the

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Speaker 3: idea of giving untruthful praise. After I read this email,

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Speaker 3: I was thinking about this a lot. And of course,

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Speaker 3: you know, not trying to come off as high and

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Speaker 3: mighty or like I think I'm the King of honesty.

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Speaker 3: You know, we all, at least occasionally, you know, use

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Speaker 3: little positive exaggerations and things like that that help help

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Speaker 3: sweeten and ease our relationships. And I've done this too,

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Speaker 3: But when given the opportunity to reflect, I really do

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Speaker 3: think in general it's better to be as truthful as

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Speaker 3: you can with people, even if you're just talking about

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Speaker 3: praise and compliments. Even positive little lies can just create

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Speaker 3: unpredictable problems for your future self, Like if people later

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Speaker 3: find out that a compliment you gave them was insincere,

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Speaker 3: that will probably hurt them a lot more than not

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Speaker 3: getting a compliment in the first place. And I think

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Speaker 3: also when you misrepresent your feelings or thoughts about things,

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Speaker 3: it has the downside of essentially gumming up the works

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Speaker 3: of your mind, Like it creates these inefficiencies where you

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Speaker 3: have to remember what you've told people in the past.

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Speaker 3: So in computer terms, it's kind of like, you know,

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Speaker 3: you're running multiple virtual machines and your brain instead of

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Speaker 3: just running directly on the hardware. But yeah, so that

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Speaker 3: caveat aside to coming back to the first part. When

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Speaker 3: you are able to do so truthfully, I think finding

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Speaker 3: things to compliment that people value about themselves is a

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Speaker 3: really good insight in a way, it's having a sympathetic

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Speaker 3: identification with the person. It's a way of complimenting them

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Speaker 3: that sees them from their own perspective instead of from

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Speaker 3: the outside perspective. And like you allude to, I think

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Speaker 3: with this connection to praising process instead of attributes, if

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Speaker 3: it's something they value about themselves, I think that usually

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Speaker 3: means that it's something that they have put effort into,

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Speaker 3: which is its own kind of reward to have somebody

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Speaker 3: acknowledge and notice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, like with the couple of things, I

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Speaker 2: guess with first of all, with the example here, Jane

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Speaker 2: is an artist. Art is very subjective, so you know,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of wiggle room there. And also I

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Speaker 2: think when complimenting someone, you know, I mean, you can

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Speaker 2: probably find something you like about the thing that they value.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's got to be something there, even if

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Speaker 2: it's not like your art, you know, the kind of

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Speaker 2: art you would personally put on your wall, there must

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Speaker 2: be something you can say, yeah, you know, get creative,

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Speaker 2: find that place where where truth meets praise.

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Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, totally. All right, thank you, Lauren. Let's

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Speaker 3: see Rob, you want to grab one of these next

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Speaker 3: fore you here?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we have another one here related to the Ignobel

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Speaker 2: Prizes episode. This one I think is we determine his

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Speaker 2: response to the study about rainbow lizards that steal pizza.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, stealing pizza from a resort like restaurant tables in Togo,

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Speaker 3: so that and the study was about what kinds of

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Speaker 3: pizza the lizards like the most. That also led us

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Speaker 3: into talking about the most constipated lizard ever documented, which

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Speaker 3: had been found eating sand, presumably soaked in pizza, outside

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Speaker 3: of a Florida pizzeria. And then I think that led

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Speaker 3: to us just generally talking about animals learning to get

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Speaker 3: quite aggressive at snatching human food in these, you know,

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Speaker 3: environments where human activity and animal life meet.

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Speaker 2: All right, well, this one comes to us from Bruce.

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Speaker 2: Bruce says, Hi, Robert Joe, your recent episode on this

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Speaker 2: year's Ignobel Prize winning research brought to mind an encounter

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Speaker 2: with a hungry, maybe angry bird. I was living in

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Speaker 2: New York City at the time and would often take

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Speaker 2: weekend day trips to Atlantic City. The casinos were in

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Speaker 2: competition with each other and offered varying cast back incentives

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Speaker 2: to bus riders when they would disembark at their establishment.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes the cashback would even be a dollar or two

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Speaker 2: over the cost of the ticket. Anyway, on such a trip,

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Speaker 2: I remember walking along the boardwalk. It was an overcast,

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Speaker 2: late fall day, somewhat blustery, so the summer crowds, along

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Speaker 2: with their drop food concessions the goals would pick up

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Speaker 2: had long since thenned out. I noticed a goal, a

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Speaker 2: seagull on a descent, flying towards me. I also then

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Speaker 2: noticed a woman walking in my direction holding a funnel

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Speaker 2: cake on a plate.

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Speaker 3: Uh oh.

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Speaker 2: The goal had apparently also seen the funnel cake and

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Speaker 2: decided it was going to be an easy theft, as

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Speaker 2: it suddenly dove over the woman's shoulder from behind and

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Speaker 2: tried to grab the pastry. What it had not anticipated was,

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Speaker 2: since it was a windy day, the woman was holding

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Speaker 2: her treat quite firmly against the plate it was on.

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Speaker 2: The plate ended up acting like a fulcrumb, and the

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Speaker 2: momentum the bird had caused it to cartwheel into a

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Speaker 2: face plant beak plant against the boardwalk. It staggered to

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Speaker 2: its feet and took a couple of wobbly steps before

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Speaker 2: it tried to take off again. But I had continued

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Speaker 2: walking forward, not anticipating all this commotion, so had narrowed

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Speaker 2: the distance between myself and the location of the intended

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Speaker 2: theft and its aftermath. As the bird became airborne, it

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Speaker 2: swam directly into my chest, right below my chin, it

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Speaker 2: fell once again to the boardwalk. I don't really know

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Speaker 2: what an embarrassed indignant face looks like on a goal,

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Speaker 2: but if there is one, this goal had it, Bruce,

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Speaker 2: And then I believe Bruce included a note or this

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Speaker 2: might have been your note that Bruce, this is from Okay.

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Speaker 2: Bruce also reminds us that he is the former theater

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Speaker 2: manager who previously wrote in with memories of showing Kroll

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Speaker 2: and the Last Starfighter.

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Speaker 3: All right, here's another amazing adventure you got to witness first.

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Speaker 2: And seagulls, you know, they will, they will go for it.

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Speaker 2: I've watched one grab a hot dog off of a

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Speaker 2: hot grill once at the beach. They will, they will,

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Speaker 2: They'll get it if they absolutely can. Now, as for

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Speaker 2: what the funnel cake truly had to offer the bird,

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure.

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Speaker 3: The seagull grabbed the hot dog off the grill with

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Speaker 3: its beak.

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Speaker 2: You said, uh, yeah, I mean I was not the griller,

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Speaker 2: so I don't know what the temperature of the grill was, like,

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Speaker 2: what part of the grill and this was observed from

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Speaker 2: a farm, but seemed to make off with it, so

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe the grill was dying down. I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure.

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Speaker 3: I'm trying to imagine. So it's a seagull, so it

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Speaker 3: wouldn't be grabbing with talons like an eagle or something.

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Speaker 3: It would be beak down to grab I suppose.

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Speaker 2: So again I wasn't close enough and or my memory

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Speaker 2: is not as firm. I just remember the goal getting

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Speaker 2: the hot dog, and that was the that was the

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Speaker 2: important part of the tale.

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Speaker 3: Okay, alrighty, let's see this next message comes from Joe,

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Speaker 3: not myself, a different Joe. Joe says, oh in the

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Speaker 3: subject line is AI, chatbots and narcissistic behavior. This is

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Speaker 3: in response to us. Actually it's the same Ignobel winning

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Speaker 3: psychology paper which Lauren was writing about. So this was

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Speaker 3: the paper which found, among other things, that telling people

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Speaker 3: that an IQ test has deemed them very smart has

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Speaker 3: a tendency to increase, at least temporarily, a couple of

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Speaker 3: particular narcissistic traits. I think they called this state narcissism.

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Speaker 3: And the question was not resolved by the paper, but

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Speaker 3: the question was could this overtime lead to the actual

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Speaker 3: inculcation of trait narcissism? So, like, you know, causing these

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Speaker 3: states of narcissism makes somebody more permanently narcissistic over time.

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Speaker 3: And in our discussion of that paper, we ended up

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Speaker 3: talking about AI chat bots and the fact that they

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Speaker 3: often really shower the user with ridiculous flattery. You know, Oh,

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Speaker 3: that's such an intelligent question, very perceptive insight. Thank you user,

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Speaker 3: Please keep using the service.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we talked about this. I've experimented with

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Speaker 2: this a little bit before and found that, yeah, I

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Speaker 2: can if I asked one of these systems about something

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Speaker 2: that is ultimately a stretch, some sort of connections stretch

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Speaker 2: between a particular movie and a particular theme or something,

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Speaker 2: it's still it still wants to compliment me on that

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Speaker 2: correct on that connection that I've made, as opposed to saying, well,

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Speaker 2: that's a real stretch and maybe you're the only one

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Speaker 2: thinking about it this way.

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Speaker 3: The flattery is one of the many reasons that I

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Speaker 3: you know that these tools can be useful in certain ways,

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Speaker 3: but you just shouldn't depend on them too much for

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Speaker 3: truth or anything, because yeah, they're you know, they're doing

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Speaker 3: something other than just purely trying to serve you up

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Speaker 3: truthful information. They're they're trying to inculcate a user relationship.

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Speaker 3: So they want to flatter you, and they also are

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Speaker 3: going to you know, hallucinate to try to give you

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Speaker 3: stuff that fulfills what you ask for. Yeah, anyway, so

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Speaker 3: Joe says, Hey, Robin, Joe, love your Ignobel episodes, which

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Speaker 3: often provides some of my favorite anecdotes to share with

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Speaker 3: my kids. Cats are liquid is still a catchphrase in

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Speaker 3: the family castle. Oh that warms my heart. A recent

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Speaker 3: article in futurism that website futurism dot com shines an

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Speaker 3: interesting light on the segment on self assessed Intelligence and

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Speaker 3: your musings on AI's tendency to putting it delicately, blow

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Speaker 3: smoke up your and then Joe says, wait, that's not delicate.

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Speaker 3: Maybe skip reading this part anyway, Joe says, a thirty

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Speaker 3: year old IT professional wound up being repeatedly hospitalized, losing

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Speaker 3: his job, and being diagnosed with a severe manic episode

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Speaker 3: after a large language model falsely validated his theories about

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Speaker 3: faster than light travel. This is one example of a

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Speaker 3: phenomenon that's been termed AI psychosis colloquially. It's not a

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Speaker 3: DSM disorder or anything, and often comes back to the

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Speaker 3: way LMS ten to tend towards flattery and affirmation of

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Speaker 3: the user, even when the user is making obvious, catastrophic,

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Speaker 3: even dangerous mistakes. This lends credence to your musing about

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Speaker 3: AI and the hypothesis that repeated flattery might aggregate over time.

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Speaker 3: Interesting says, It's easy to see how this feature could

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Speaker 3: be dangerous to a more fragile mind. Not my mind,

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Speaker 3: of course, my mental health is the best. At least

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Speaker 3: that's what my LLM tells me. Joe, Yeah, thanks, Joe. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of people have probably heard of

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Speaker 3: these stories at this point about various forms of AI psychosis.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think there can be similar effects, but

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Speaker 3: probably just not to the same degree that it's having

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Speaker 3: on people with typical mental health using it all the time.

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Speaker 3: But especially Yeah, if you have certain kinds of mental

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Speaker 3: health conditions, getting into a back and forth with one

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Speaker 3: of these affirming programs can definitely lead you in dangerous places. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: because it's just trying to hype you up and saying yes, yes,

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Speaker 3: that's right. You know, you are on the verge of

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Speaker 3: a great discovery.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And like so many things with technology, of course,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's already out there and we're kind of

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Speaker 2: playing ketchup figuring out exactly how everybody responds to these systems.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, interesting times, interesting times. Yeah, all right, let's

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Speaker 2: move on to one. This one comes to us from Lee,

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Speaker 2: and this is responding to our episodes Unlicking, though specifically

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Speaker 2: this one was a response to the first episode, so

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Speaker 2: I think it came in between the publication of one

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Speaker 2: and two. Lee says, greetings were ob, Joe and JJ

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Speaker 2: very interesting first episode on licking your request for experiences

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Speaker 2: regarding licking and spitting. I recall a number of movies

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Speaker 2: and TV shows for my youth that involved kids making

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Speaker 2: deals of varying types. Almost always the deal was sealed

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Speaker 2: with a handshake. A key element of the handshake was

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Speaker 2: for each deal maker to spit in their palm prior

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Speaker 2: to the handshake. This was always to emphasize the importance

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Speaker 2: of the deal on some level. Hearing about licking, I

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Speaker 2: would presume the fact that kids doing the deal were

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Speaker 2: outdoors doing well kid things. My presumption would be that

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Speaker 2: their hands were too dirty to lick, but that spitting

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Speaker 2: into the palm was okay. Ever thought about it that way,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I figure just kids like to spit. I

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Speaker 2: recall on multiple occasions licking my finger in an effort

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Speaker 2: to assess wind direction. Yes, another idea, more from TV

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Speaker 2: shows than written sources. With regard to the TUTSI pop.

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Speaker 2: More often than not, the start was to lick it,

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Speaker 2: but it would more than likely get parked between the

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Speaker 2: cheek and gum for most of the time. I don't

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Speaker 2: specifically recall if this was more an effort to make

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Speaker 2: it last or because I was working on some task

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Speaker 2: or another. Love the podcast always look forward to each episode.

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Speaker 2: Sincerely ly thank you Lee.

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Speaker 3: On the idea about licking a finger and sticking it

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Speaker 3: into the air to see which way the wind is blowing,

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Speaker 3: because you know, it gets cold on the side of

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Speaker 3: the wind is coming from. This reminds me that I

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Speaker 3: recently was watching a movie. I'm afraid I'm misremembering this,

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Speaker 3: but I think it was a scene in the James

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Speaker 3: Bond film From Russia with Love Okay, And it's a

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Speaker 3: scene where a character is trying to test wind direction

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Speaker 3: and they lick a finger and hold it up in

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Speaker 3: the air, but they're doing it ends in a speeding boat.

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Speaker 3: I mean, maybe I'm wrong. I think that would probably

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Speaker 3: not work.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you would feel cold. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 2: I think your results would be skewed by that. Very interesting. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I haven't seen From Russia with Love in a long time.

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Speaker 2: Classic though, classic film. Yeah, let's see. Yeah, other I

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Speaker 2: mean good observation about the spitting and they hand there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of There is a lot of that, I

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Speaker 2: feel like in uh, you know kid adventure films, the

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Speaker 2: spit in the hand handshake. Uh. Sometimes they'll go for

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Speaker 2: it and do the blood bond handshake, which of course

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Speaker 2: is is ickier and makes you even more afraid for

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Speaker 2: the fact that they're outside playing and haven't washed their hands.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, adding self mutilation to the mix. But but yeah,

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Speaker 2: I guess there's a lot of spitting in palms. I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna have to be hyper aware of it now as

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Speaker 2: I watch other films. As for the TUTSI pop observation,

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Speaker 2: this this match up with what other people have been

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Speaker 2: saying as well. You know that there is active licking. Yes,

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Speaker 2: there's active crunching, but there's also a lot of just

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Speaker 2: having the pop in your mouth while you're doing other things. Generally,

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Speaker 2: you're not setting there actively counting the licks and only

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Speaker 2: focusing on the licking.

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Speaker 3: Okay, here's an email left over from October. This seems

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Speaker 3: to be related to our past October episodes on the

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Speaker 3: invention of the chainsaw. This is from Hugh. Hugh says, Robert,

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Speaker 3: Joe and JJ Boo. I am writing to put forward

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Speaker 3: an opinion that may not be popular among our particular

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Speaker 3: subset of humans, but I feel must be expressed. A

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Speaker 3: chainsaw would make a terrible weapon. First a trigger warning.

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Speaker 3: My reasons are technical and fairly pedantic, and my real

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Speaker 3: world example is sure to upset people. I would not

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Speaker 3: hold it against you if you were to stop reading

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Speaker 3: right now. So, folks, if you don't want to hear

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Speaker 3: out why chainsaws are not particularly effective on say, mammal flesh,

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Speaker 3: with some details from experience, and not murder, but experience

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Speaker 3: with animal carcasses, you can skip ahead. I don't know,

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Speaker 3: five minutes or something, Okay, all right, Hugh says. If

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Speaker 3: you take the way that various styles of internal combustion

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Speaker 3: engines make power, and line them up, you would have

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Speaker 3: a sliding scale. At one end of the scale would

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Speaker 3: be torque and at the other would be RPM. At

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Speaker 3: the torque end, you have large explosions of fuel in

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Speaker 3: large combustion chambers, pushing large and heavy components in long

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Speaker 3: strokes stroke meaning the distance of piston travel at a

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Speaker 3: relatively low rpm with high rotational mass. Once you get

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Speaker 3: them going, inertia does a lot of the work, and

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Speaker 3: they are very heavy. At the rpm end, you have

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Speaker 3: smaller but far more frequent explosions of fuel pushing much

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Speaker 3: lighter components in a shorter stroke with a much lower

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Speaker 3: rotational mass. This is what makes chainsaws light enough to

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Speaker 3: be practical for the average person to use mean use

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Speaker 3: in their hands, he says, in order to make power,

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Speaker 3: they must be able to spin freely. Therein lies the rub.

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Speaker 3: The secret to making a chainsaw work is a centrifugal

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Speaker 3: clutch that allows the engine to spin up before applying

431
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 3: full power to the chain. At full throttle, the chain

432
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 3: and the engine are spinning at roughly the same speed

433
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 3: due to the speed at which the chain is traveling.

434
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 3: The frictions involved will create heat, but a specially formulated

435
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 3: chain oil keeps things running smoothly. Each tooth on the

436
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 3: chain removes a small chip of wood. Due to the

437
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,880
Speaker 3: speed at which the chain is traveling, The cumulative effect

438
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 3: is significant In order for the saw to keep working,

439
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 3: it must be able to clear these chips of wood efficiently,

440
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 3: or the machine will encounter resistance that it cannot produce

441
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 3: enough torque to overcome. Now for the upsetting bit. When

442
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 3: I was young, one of our neighbors shot a really

443
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 3: magnificent buck during hunting season. He decided that he wanted

444
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 3: to mount the head as a trophy. In order to

445
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 3: do that, he needed to remove the head so that

446
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 3: he could give it to a taxidermist. He decided to

447
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 3: use you guessed it, a chainsaw. The deer was hanging

448
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 3: head down in his shop during this time of year,

449
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 3: the shop was as cold as a meat locker. He

450
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 3: decided to remove the head right there, rather than taking

451
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 3: it outside. This turned out to be almost as bad

452
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 3: a decision as using a chainsaw in the first place.

453
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 3: One of his sons held onto the buck's front legs

454
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 3: in order to steady it, and our neighbors started cutting. It.

455
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 3: Lasted for about thirty seconds, but it seemed like much longer.

456
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 3: Almost immediately, the hair and flesh and fat started to

457
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 3: interfere with the lubrication of the chain. The temperature of

458
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 3: the chain skyrocketed, and the saw bogged down and quit.

459
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,959
Speaker 3: The heat caused the whole mess to cook and smoke.

460
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 3: The stench was truly horrible. During the brief time that

461
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 3: the saw was cutting, the saw managed to spray the

462
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 3: inside of the shop with a chunky mist of hair

463
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 3: and flesh. The mess was terrible, and even though he

464
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 3: had cleaned up as best he could during the following summer,

465
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 3: it drew flies and stank. I'm sure you could design

466
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 3: a tool for the job, but if you were using

467
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 3: an off the shelf chainsaw, I feel you would get

468
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 3: you would get one good whack at best. You're all

469
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 3: doing a great job. Thanks for your patience. You well, Hugh,

470
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 3: you know your warning was correct. This was really gross.

471
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 3: But I also found this really interesting and I appreciate

472
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,360
Speaker 3: this contribution to the fact that, Yeah, the Texas chainsawm

473
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 3: esker scenario is not very plausible. Like you could probably

474
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 3: you probably hurt one person really bad with the chainsaw,

475
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 3: I guess, and then you'd be having trouble like keeping

476
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 3: going at people with it.

477
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. It doesn't sound like it would be

478
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 2: a good active weapon, nor would it be a good

479
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 2: butchery tool, which is that's implied that I mean Yeah,

480
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 2: that's one of the main reasons that the saw your

481
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 2: family has the chainsaw.

482
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 3: They got to make barbecue. Yeah.

483
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're supposed to really know their meat, you know,

484
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 2: because they worked in the slaughterhouses and so forth. But

485
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 2: in reality, it doesn't seem like this would be a

486
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 2: good good tool to use.

487
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I guess butchers mainly, well now I'm talking

488
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 3: about something I don't really know, but I think butchers

489
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 3: mainly use like sharp, very sharp little boning knives and

490
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 3: then like band saws to cut through bones.

491
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Now, I guess this still leaves the door

492
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 2: open for the possibility of like, you know, far future

493
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 2: space marine chain swords, where there's some sort of a

494
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 2: technological chain weapon that has been designed, you know, exclusively

495
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 2: for cutting through enemies and armor and meat. But yeah,

496
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 2: as for our actual chainsaws out there, yeah, I like

497
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 2: the description that we had here about how it is

498
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 2: designed to remove tiny bits of wood from a larger

499
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 2: piece of wood and all that's going to break down

500
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 2: if you start cutting into flesh with it.

501
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 3: Yeah. Designed in part after the wood borer beetle, and

502
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 3: the wood boar beetle was not made to cut a

503
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 3: deer's head off, all right.

504
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 2: This next one comes to us from Sinan, responding to

505
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 2: this is a long ago episode on the origins and

506
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 2: effects of the seven day week system. Yeah, Sinan says, Okay, okay,

507
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 2: I haven't been listening to you for three years, and

508
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 2: that's because I had switched to Spotify over a hiatus

509
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 2: and forgot to carry over my liked podcast from the

510
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 2: Apple podcast app. This is a great reminder, though, I

511
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 2: guess it's kind of futile, right if you're if you're

512
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 2: not currently listening to the show, you can't be listening

513
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 2: to this episode.

514
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 3: But if you're, if you're listening and not subscribed on

515
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 3: the platform where you listen, please do subscribe. I mean,

516
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 3: assuming you want to be subscribed, but yeah, you do,

517
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 3: please please do that now that helps you and helps us.

518
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and it's yeah, absolutely so Anyway, Sinan continues,

519
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 2: now that we're back together, and yes, it is so

520
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 2: great to be back together. I have a great many

521
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 2: episodes to listen to and catch up on. Yeah. I

522
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 2: moved to Norway from Turkey and have come across this

523
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 2: weird phenomenon of numbered weeks, apparently in the Scandic countries

524
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 2: Norway and Denmark for sure, probably for Sweden as well.

525
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 2: Use week numbers for scheduling stuff, especially for the school calendars,

526
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 2: like winter break on week eight, fall break on week forty.

527
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 2: But also businesses have delivery deadlines set to weeks. Sometimes

528
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 2: colleagues tell me some deadline is on week twenty five,

529
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 2: and I'm like, what's the date. I don't speak weeks.

530
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 2: So there and back to listening, Sona, that is fascinating.

531
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 2: I did not know this was a thing.

532
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 3: I did not know that either. Interesting, Thank you, Sonan.

533
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 3: I had no idea that. I can see how that

534
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 3: makes some sense but also would be annoying to get

535
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 3: used to if you're new to it.

536
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure. I have mixed feelings. I guess

537
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 2: I'm resistant to change in general. But I can see

538
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 2: where this would maybe be much more efficient because you

539
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 2: get down to just you know, week number one, week

540
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 2: number two, week number three, But because when you go

541
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 2: by months, it's of course you have uneven amount of

542
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 2: weeks per month. Months also bring in additional like emotional

543
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 2: baggage as well, or at least I find that's my case.

544
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 2: So it's like thinking about things planned for July and

545
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 2: thinking about some things that are practical from a planning standpoint,

546
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 2: but other things are just more about the vibe of

547
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 2: July and my past with July, and maybe it is

548
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 2: better to just break it down, break that year down

549
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 2: into a set number of weeks, and plan accordingly.

550
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, though, I wonder if then you would just form

551
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 3: emotional associations with numbers of weeks. Yeah.

552
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 2: Maybe, so you're like week one, Oh, don't get me started.

553
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 2: Week one is always a chaotic. Week two still don't

554
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 2: have it together. Call me when we get to week five.

555
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 2: Maybe week ten.

556
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 3: I've really complicated emotional relationships with some months. It's not

557
00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 3: a clean Oh I like that month that don't like

558
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 3: that one. I would say, for example, like October is

559
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 3: both my favorite and one of my least favorite months

560
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 3: of the year. Yeah, I love the autumn. I love

561
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 3: the Halloween season obviously, so it's like my favorite. You know,

562
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 3: it's great, but it also just tends to be, for

563
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 3: various reasons, a time of extreme stress for me.

564
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, fourth quarter in general is always there's

565
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 2: just so many moving pieces, and I imagine that's that

566
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 2: goes for a lot of different industries.

567
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

568
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I end I end up sort of favoring

569
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 2: those sort of lost weeks. Uh, those those rare almost

570
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 2: normal weeks you might think of where there's nothing particular

571
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 2: going on except whatever your work demands are. But I

572
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 2: don't know. Those those seem increasingly rare. You don't know

573
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 2: until you're in them. But maybe if you're doing a

574
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 2: week a week by week like numbered system, you'd know,

575
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 2: like eventually week sixteen is coming. In weeks, Week sixteen

576
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 2: is going to be really sweet.

577
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, at what point do you hit the realization though?

578
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 3: They're like, oh yeah, things are never going to go

579
00:31:58,600 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 3: back to normal.

580
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, there's no such thing as a normal week.

581
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 2: All right, Well, should we jump into some weird house

582
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 2: cinema messages here? Joe?

583
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 3: Sure, let's see. Do you want me to do this

584
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 3: one from Greg?

585
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 2: Yeah? Why not? Let's do it.

586
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 3: Okay, this is about Night of the Comet, Greg says,

587
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 3: Robert and Joe, your recent weird house cinema episode on

588
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 3: Night of the Comet was great. Joe remarked that part

589
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 3: of the coziness and appeal of the film are the

590
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 3: depictions of empty locations around Los Angeles that are usually

591
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 3: filled with people. This is very much part of what

592
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 3: draws me to this film, and it got me thinking

593
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 3: about the concept of liminal spaces. For those who are unaware,

594
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 3: liminal spaces are vacant places that feel eerie or uncanny

595
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 3: due to the lack of human activity. They often evoke

596
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 3: a feeling of nostalgia in the Observer. Examples include schools

597
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 3: and playgrounds at night, empty airport terminals and train stations,

598
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 3: and abandoned amusement parks. I work at a library and

599
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 3: get to experience this every time I work a closing shift.

600
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 3: Some people find liminal space is unsettling, but I find

601
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 3: the familiar yet mysterious atmosphere comforting. Liminal spaces and nostalgia

602
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 3: in general might be an interesting topic for a show

603
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 3: if it was given a similar treatment to the recent

604
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 3: episode on cynicism. I love the show and I am

605
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 3: so grateful to have multiple episodes to look forward to

606
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 3: each week. Keep up the great work in twenty twenty six. Greg.

607
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 3: Thank you, Greg. Yeah, I really appreciate this. You know,

608
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 3: I've had some confusion about the idea of liminal spaces

609
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 3: over time, because I have like two different understandings in

610
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 3: my head of what it means. In one of my

611
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 3: understandings is exactly what you're talking about, kind of eerie

612
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 3: empty places, you know, the kind of place you would

613
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 3: normally imagine activity happening, but now it is. It is ghostly,

614
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,720
Speaker 3: and you know, you can hear your footsteps echoing. It's

615
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,439
Speaker 3: defined by an absence in a way. But my other

616
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 3: understanding of liminal spaces is that it's about like transitional spaces,

617
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 3: spaces where people are not usually meant to be. So

618
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 3: you know, the sides of roads where there are no sidewalks,

619
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 3: just places people aren't or you know, long empty hallways

620
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 3: places people don't stop and stay. Maybe it's come to

621
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 3: encompass both of these definitions over time. I don't know,

622
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 3: but I agree Greg, it is really interesting. I mean,

623
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 3: we talked about this in the Night of the Comet episode,

624
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,439
Speaker 3: and you bring it up in the email here as well.

625
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 3: It's interesting how these spaces feel both creepy and cozy

626
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 3: at the same time. There's something about them that is

627
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 3: slightly off putting, a little bit threatening, also a little

628
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 3: bit comfortable and inviting and makes you want to walk

629
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 3: around in them. And so it's this weird sort of

630
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 3: opposite feelings working in tension with each other. And I

631
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 3: wonder if something about that duality is related to the

632
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 3: idea that they somehow evoke something like nostalgia.

633
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Yeah, it reminds me two of things that

634
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 2: I've I've read regarding how paintings affect us, And like,

635
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,399
Speaker 2: we look at a painting of a landscape and there's

636
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 2: this argument that you know, it's maybe tying into some

637
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 2: very you know, archaic coating in our minds about hunting

638
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 2: and gathering. We can't help but sort of place ourselves

639
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 2: within the landscape and imagine the most ideal place to

640
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 2: be within that landscape. So yeah, it's I love these

641
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 2: these conversations where we're trying to figure out, like, why

642
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 2: is a certain visual representation affecting me the way it

643
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 2: seems to be affecting me, And how much of it

644
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 2: is I am in that space now or I am

645
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 2: imagining myself in that space? Yeah, and how deep is

646
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 2: that connected to me?

647
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,320
Speaker 3: Absolutely? Yeah, But I just want to emphasize again, Greg,

648
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 3: I do think there is something really true and interesting

649
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 3: about the link you make between the feelings evoked by

650
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 3: liminal spaces and nostalgia. That's like, that's quite mysterious. I

651
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 3: don't understand why that link would be there, but I

652
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 3: feel that too, there is something in common between. I

653
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 3: don't know, the feeling of like walking through an empty,

654
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 3: you know, long empty hallway at night, or you know,

655
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 3: an empty airport terminal at night and there's nobody else there.

656
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 3: That feels kind of like when you see a toy

657
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 3: or item from your childhood. You know, it's just like,

658
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 3: oh wow, I remember that thing.

659
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's I don't know much about this. I haven't

660
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 2: looked at this stuff recently, but I know that in

661
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,919
Speaker 2: the genre of vapor wave, especially with like vapor wave

662
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 2: videos and vapor wave of course, you know, like sonically

663
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 2: often engages a certain amount of nostalgia, but a number

664
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 2: of these videos also invoke liminal space. And if you

665
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 2: just do a quick search like vapor wave liminal space,

666
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 2: a lot of results come up where they're just they're

667
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 2: making it overt, an overt part of the product that's

668
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 2: been put out there. So again, not an area I

669
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 2: know a whole lot about, but I think just in

670
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 2: this one example, we might see, oh yeah, here's an

671
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 2: obvious crossover between nostalgia and liminal spaces, and that that

672
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 2: liminal space nostalgia can also work with other sorts of

673
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 2: nostalgic media. But it does. Yeah, it films like this

674
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 2: and other like apocalyptic media. Yeah, there is something inviting

675
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,879
Speaker 2: about it. We both want to be there and also

676
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 2: realize that it is a nightmare scenario that we wouldn't

677
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 2: want to be a part of. And that applies to

678
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,760
Speaker 2: various aspects of say, you know, like zombie apocalypse media.

679
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 2: All right, let's let's see here. Oh, we had a fun,

680
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 2: fun one here from Jeff subject line mosquitoes don't give

681
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 2: a damn about Christmas time. This is a response to

682
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 2: a musical discussion in our episode on the film Future Kick. Hmmm,

683
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 2: Jeff Wrights, Hey guys. When Rob mentioned that Stan Ridgway

684
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 2: did the soundtrack for Future Kick, I had another listen

685
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,800
Speaker 2: to his catalog, and now I have all these great

686
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 2: songs stuck in my head enough that now I feel

687
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 2: the urge to try to get them stuck in your heads.

688
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 2: Stan's music has a cool desert Southwest vie with lots

689
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 2: of emphasis on setting, tone, storytelling, and underused instruments, at

690
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:46,399
Speaker 2: least for rock music. There's a lot of harmonica, accordion, saxophone,

691
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 2: and what I think might be electric violin, unless maybe

692
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 2: they're just faking it all a sep He's just amazing

693
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 2: with the catchy hooks. Thus all the earworms I've got

694
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 2: crawling around in my head at the moment. Probably his

695
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 2: most successible song and a straight bang, is Going Southbound.

696
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 2: It's got his trademark dark humor, a real sense of

697
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 2: place and atmosphere, and it just rocks. If you only

698
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,399
Speaker 2: listen to a couple of songs, I'd recommend that one

699
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 2: and The Roadblock, which tells a complete story with a

700
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 2: great sense of inevitability. Peg and Pete and Me is

701
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 2: a noir story that's only going one place. Once you

702
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 2: hear the setup, or maybe just the title, it's fun

703
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 2: to listen to get there. He also takes weird turns

704
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 2: into sci fi with memorable lyrics like these from The Overlords.

705
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 2: There is something in the air that is burning in

706
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 2: my throat. A big black cloud is passing dropping acid

707
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 2: on my coat. If those songs don't grab you, you

708
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 2: probably won't be into his stuff. Calling Out to Carol

709
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 2: and A Mission in Life are great snapshots of life.

710
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 2: Mission also manages to be both optimistically cheesy and cynically

711
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 2: bleak at the same time. It's funny, a little sad,

712
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 2: then turns sort of beautiful at the end. Some songs

713
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 2: are just philosophical comedy. And I want to be a

714
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 2: boss the narrator's story by wishing he could take long

715
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 2: lunches and eventually spirals into a Howard Hughes fantasy of

716
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 2: buying Mars and building an amusement park. Up There a

717
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 2: quote better than Old Walt's Place.

718
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,919
Speaker 3: That somehow sounds like it could be a Warren's Evon song.

719
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 2: It does it does sound that reminds me of a

720
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 2: little bit of like splendid isolation. Yes Can't Complain is

721
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 2: one weird extended gag with a cartoon ending, and Harry

722
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 2: Truman only two thousand views on YouTube drops lines like

723
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 2: John Wayne was always bald and he had a woman's name.

724
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 2: This observation from newspapers frequently pops into my mind when

725
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 2: I catch myself doom scrolling quote. Now, lately, I've been thinking,

726
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 2: what would the world do without the news? You wouldn't

727
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 2: know when wars were started or when they ended, win

728
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 2: or lose. It'd probably be a much better world to

729
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 2: live in, But the question would be who's and what

730
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 2: side you're on, or who's right or wrong? You'd never

731
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 2: have to choose anyways, It's not exactly about songs about

732
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 2: wolfmen and atomic mons us, but I think you'd both

733
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 2: enjoy a deep dive into his stuff or not. Your

734
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 2: mileage may vary, as they say, thanks for continuing to

735
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 2: stir up the neurons in my mind, Jeff.

736
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 3: Should we do a brief off Mike listening party to

737
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 3: one of these songs and come back?

738
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I listen to some of his music

739
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 2: when we were working on this episode. But I do

740
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 2: need a reminder here.

741
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's check out Going Southbound.

742
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 2: All right? Yeah, I like this, and I think, you know,

743
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 2: I have to come back to the Warrens eve on comparison.

744
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 2: You know they don't you know, not that they sound

745
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 2: tremendously alike, but there's a similar sense of sort of

746
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,760
Speaker 2: an outsider trueadoor giving you an insight into a certain

747
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 2: world and painting that world with a fair amount of

748
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 2: weird detail.

749
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, the lyrics are a very cynical indictment of

750
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 3: the rat race. Yes, you know, it's like, oh, you're

751
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 3: sitting in traffic, you know you got a job. It's

752
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 3: all a bunch of hooey. But yeah, the guy's voice.

753
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,280
Speaker 3: He's got more twang in his voice than I expect

754
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 3: to doing, kind of a cowboy accent. Uh and he

755
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 3: uh man. The production on it is so eighties. It's

756
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 3: like a you know, textbook example of what people mean

757
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 3: when they think about nineteen eighties rock production.

758
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is another thing you do find with with

759
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 2: Warren Zevon music.

760
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 3: Of that later album. Yeah.

761
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, but but yeah, I love his voice does have

762
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 2: that twang again what as we discussed in the in

763
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 2: that Weird House Cinema episode, a lot of people are

764
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 2: going to be most familiar with his voice from the

765
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 2: the Wall of Voodoo track Mexican Radio. Yeah, he's in

766
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 2: full twang on that as well. He was the it

767
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 2: was a new wave group and he was he was

768
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 2: the vocalist at that point.

769
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 3: Okay. In the video for the song by the way,

770
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 3: he's wandering around in this like drab coat in what

771
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 3: looks like an antiques warehouse. So they're just a bunch

772
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 3: of old furniture around and like a cage with an

773
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 3: armadillo in it. I think people playing violins and saxophones.

774
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, armadilla might be a vampire around there somewhere.

775
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 3: I guess so all right.

776
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 2: Well, Jeff, thanks for writing in. Yeah anytime. I love

777
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 2: it when we can find out more about a particular

778
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 2: artist or actor that comes up in a Weird House

779
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 2: Cinema episode.

780
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh hey. Also, we got some messages related to

781
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,319
Speaker 3: Night of the comment about there was an arcade game

782
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 3: in the movie. Remember the Katherine Mary Stewart's character. She's

783
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 3: like all time great at this arcade game, and it

784
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 3: was called Tempest. And at first we were like, is

785
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 3: this a real game? But it is. Neither of us

786
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 3: had ever played it. It was what was called a

787
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 3: tube shooter genre we were not familiar with, and so

788
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 3: a couple of people wrote in about Tempest. One message

789
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 3: is from Lee. Lee says subject line Tempest arcade game.

790
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 3: Merry Christmas, Rob, Joe, and jj I hope you all

791
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 3: are having a great holiday season. In Day of the Commet, lea,

792
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:06,840
Speaker 3: come on, it's night Night of the Living Comet. In

793
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 3: the Day of the Comet Weird House episode, you mentioned

794
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 3: the video game Tempest. I was in college in the

795
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 3: eighties and there were a couple of arcades in town.

796
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 3: While for me the Tempest was a guaranteed loss of

797
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 3: a quarter, I did try it several times. Anyway, the

798
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 3: graphics were pretty rudimentary, line based. The concept of a

799
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 3: tube shooter works, but is a new phrase for me.

800
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 3: Here's the gameplay picture. An outline of a stop sign

801
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 3: draw lines from the inside corners to the center. This

802
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 3: drawing creates the tube. The shooting position is around the

803
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 3: outside edge of the stop sign shape. You move around

804
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 3: the outside to target adversaries as they come towards you

805
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 3: out of the distance. This movement is accomplished with a

806
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 3: rotating maybe Lee means rotating arrow here. The second control

807
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 3: is a fire button. When you clear a level, you

808
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,760
Speaker 3: advance or fall through the tube to the next level,

809
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,280
Speaker 3: a new different polygon, more enemies, faster pace, et cetera.

810
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 3: This is the basics I can recall from forty years ago,

811
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 3: prompted by a scene from the film Thank you for

812
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 3: your work on stuff to blow your mind in Weird House.

813
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 3: Happy New Year to you all, sincerely, lye uh yeah,

814
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 3: thanks Lee. You know, I'm kind of intrigued by this

815
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 3: idea of a tube shooter, like a game based on

816
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 3: shooting at things in a tunnel. This obviously is a

817
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 3: more basic geometric version of it. But then I was like, Oh,

818
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 3: this actually is not all that unfamiliar of a concept.

819
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 3: I mean, a lot of early first person three D

820
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 3: first person shooter games are called like, you know, corridor

821
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 3: shooters or hallway shooters, where you're basically always in some

822
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 3: kind of hallway and you know you're shooting at something

823
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 3: down the hallway. And it also makes me think of

824
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 3: there was a game I recall called something like Descent.

825
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 3: Do you remember this game? It's it seemed like a

826
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 3: game where you're in some sort of vehicle, like a

827
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,240
Speaker 3: shift for a mech of some kind, and you're going

828
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 3: through tunnels or tubes shooting at things.

829
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 2: Yes, I remember this game this. I think maybe I

830
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 2: only played like a demo of it, but it was

831
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 2: one of those that, you know, the the the disc

832
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 2: were being passed around for it back in the day.

833
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:18,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, it might have been a popular freeware game, yes,

834
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 3: or sharewear yeah.

835
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, around the time of you know, the popular I

836
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 2: forget it where where it falls in like Doom and

837
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 2: Quake timeline?

838
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, Oh this is funny because I just

839
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 3: pulled up the wiki for Descent trying to remember what

840
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 3: this is, and there's a line on here that says

841
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 3: it was inspired by the scene in Return of the

842
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 3: Jedi where the Millennium Falcon is going through the middle

843
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 3: of the second Death Star to blow it up.

844
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, at this point, like any amount of three D

845
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 2: and video games was just astounding. And I guess, more

846
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:50,720
Speaker 2: to the point, it would have been during the original

847
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 2: release window for Tempest, so that you know, there's you know,

848
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 2: maybe there's something lost on us as we look at

849
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 2: the game plan now because we have so many different

850
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 2: three DEU worlds around us from video games. But maybe

851
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 2: this is a bit revolutionary at the time. Yeah, it

852
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 2: seems to have struck a chord because I was looking

853
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 2: up a little bit more about Tempest than I was

854
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,479
Speaker 2: reminded that it factors into the novel Ready Player one,

855
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 2: which is loaded with all sorts of nostalgia from the

856
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 2: eighties of you know, pretty much every media sort, and

857
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,320
Speaker 2: which it makes for a fun reading experience because you

858
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 2: end up looking things up. I've read it with my

859
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,280
Speaker 2: kid and we would have to stop every few paragraphs

860
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 2: and I'd have to explain what something is, or other

861
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 2: times they already knew what it was. But yeah, pretty

862
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,800
Speaker 2: fun novel and I think I'm to understand it. Also,

863
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 2: this game also pops up in Twilight Zone the movie,

864
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 2: just another example of it being culturally important, I guess.

865
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 2: During the nineteen eighties we also heard from Matt on

866
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:57,919
Speaker 2: Discord included some video footage of himself playing the game.

867
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 2: He said, here's Tempest, albeit on my a Joust machine

868
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 2: rather than an original Joust, another classic arcade game which

869
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 2: also factors into Ready Player one. Joe mentioned it as

870
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 2: a tube shooter. I suspect it was originally done with

871
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 2: vector graphics instead of pixels, and you play as a

872
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 2: ship question mark at the top of the tube. Joystick

873
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 2: moves you clockwise or counterclockwise around the mouth of the

874
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 2: tube as enemies come up the tube towards you getting

875
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 2: hit by a shot or enemy kills you. And if

876
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 2: an enemy gets to the top, they chase you around

877
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 2: the mouth of the tube where you can't shoot them.

878
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 2: Oh no, he says, I am, by no means an expert,

879
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 2: and I'm not sure this would make my favorites list

880
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 2: even in the nineteen eighties. But if they had it

881
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 2: at a movie theater I was working at, it'd be

882
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 2: better than work, I guess.

883
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,959
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I think that was Reggie's attitude as well.

884
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's another thing to factor into all

885
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 2: of this is like availability of video games. Yeah, you

886
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:55,879
Speaker 2: know nowadays, you know, using certainly we need to get

887
00:48:55,880 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 2: demos and free freeware and you know even various and

888
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 2: so options. You have so many games to choose from.

889
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 2: And you know, there was a time where it was

890
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 2: whatever was physically present at the arcade, if you had

891
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 2: an arcade, it might be what was physically present at

892
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 2: your pizza hut or in the you know, just outside

893
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 2: your walmart, that sort of thing. I certainly remember those days.

894
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, it used to be a lot more finding what

895
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 3: you like about what you can get.

896
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and certainly, I mean when I was growing up,

897
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 2: you know I had when I had a Nintendo and

898
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 2: then later when I had a Saga Genesis. You know,

899
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 2: we could rent games on occasion, but in general, it

900
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 2: was like you decided what game you wanted, you got it,

901
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 2: and then that was the game, Like good or bad.

902
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 2: You're going to spend a lot of time with it.

903
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 2: You were going to figure out its flaws. It wasn't

904
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 2: going to be one of these situations where it's like,

905
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 2: well I'll try it out for ten minutes and then

906
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 2: if I like it, I'll keep going, but I also

907
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:51,919
Speaker 2: might like it and never play it again. Like that's

908
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 2: I feel like that's where I am today. Great game.

909
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 2: I played five minutes of it. Maybe I'll play some

910
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 2: more of it one day, but I won't.

911
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess the other thing being, you know, in adulthood,

912
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:04,359
Speaker 3: there's like a big time issue. It's like, oh I

913
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,839
Speaker 3: could I could enjoy this if I had a lot

914
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 3: of time to figure it out, but I don't have

915
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 3: time to figure it out.

916
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, the enemies are approaching up the two.

917
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 2: It's not that much time. All right, We're gonna do

918
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 2: it at least one more here. This one comes to

919
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 2: us from Charles. Charles says, Hi, Rob, Joe, and JJ.

920
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 2: Your Star Trek Week was cool. We did Star Trek

921
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,240
Speaker 2: Week a while back, and yeah, enough, folks what wrote

922
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:36,919
Speaker 2: in about it. I think we may do Star Trek

923
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 2: Week again in twenty twenty six, so stick with us.

924
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 2: My folks are longtime Trek fans who love nature. I'm

925
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 2: excited to show them the episode you did on the

926
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 2: Salt Vampire. I didn't realize The Man Trap was the

927
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 2: first episode of Star Trek for Halloween this year. Would

928
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,919
Speaker 2: you do nineteen forty two's Cat People, and quick note,

929
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 2: we did not do nineteen forty twos Cat People, as

930
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 2: discussed in a minute, it remains on our list. Yeah,

931
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 2: the themes of repression, conformity, and sexuality stuck out to

932
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 2: me for an old movie. I've heard it has the

933
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 2: earliest jump scare in a movie, and I believe it's

934
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 2: loosely based on a story by the great Algernon Blackwood.

935
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 2: I think the movie holds up. I enjoy its creepy

936
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 2: and magical noir style. The Leopard Man is also an

937
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 2: unseen gem from the same creative team. YouTube's mysterious algorithm

938
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 2: suggested it. I was surprised that I'd never heard of

939
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,479
Speaker 2: it before because it was also excellent and seemed ahead

940
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 2: of its time with its themes misdirection and scares, live

941
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 2: long and prosper charms.

942
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, my wife and I watched Cat People several years back,

943
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 3: and I recall we enjoyed it. The jump scare is

944
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 3: interesting because it's a not to spoil anything, but you know,

945
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 3: it's a very old movie. At this point. It's a

946
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 3: Cat People movie, so you might think it's like the

947
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 3: classic jump scare, which is a cat jumps out, but no,

948
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 3: it's a bus. The jump scary is a bus?

949
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 2: Buzzes can be scary.

950
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:01,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Dethly can.

951
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 2: But yeah, Cat People is a classic, and yeah I

952
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 2: watched part of it. I think it was one of

953
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 2: these situations where I was, like, I checked out a

954
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 2: bunch of movies. I was looking specifically for something for

955
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,919
Speaker 2: weird House, and for some reason or another I put

956
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,799
Speaker 2: Cat People on the back sheelf and didn't actually finish it.

957
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 2: But I'd love to come back to it because because yeah,

958
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:22,720
Speaker 2: it has a great reputation. I liked what I saw,

959
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 2: and it definitely definitely ties in with the sorts of

960
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 2: films that I value, and the nineteen eighty two Cat People,

961
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 2: I guess still technically on the list as well. I

962
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 2: think I had expressed disinterest in that one, but then

963
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:38,359
Speaker 2: we had a listener write in and said, hey, eighty

964
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 2: two's Cat People is also fun, So okay, fair enough,

965
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 2: It's still on the list as well. Alrighty, but I

966
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 2: don't think we can do eighty two's Cat People unless

967
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,799
Speaker 2: we can't just do eighty two's Cat People, like eighty

968
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 2: two's Cat People is a possible add on much further

969
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:55,439
Speaker 2: down the line after we've done the other Cat People

970
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 2: movie Leopard People. I'm not sure question mark on that.

971
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 3: Oh hey, before we end today's episode, Uh, maybe we

972
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:08,320
Speaker 3: should mention this message from Shadow Rat on discord about

973
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,360
Speaker 3: Santa Claus the movie. Right, Oh yes, yes, do you

974
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 3: want to read this one wrong?

975
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:13,959
Speaker 2: You go ahead, and you have a cute up.

976
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 3: There, Shadow Rat says, short message. I can't help but

977
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 3: wonder if the magic that moves characters up and down

978
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 3: chimneys in Santa Claus the movie is killing and resurrecting

979
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 3: these characters in a similar fashion to Star Trek's Transporter Bravo,

980
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 3: the flower to disappear is actually a murder device.

981
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it. It alters the the destiny

982
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 2: of the clause. Right, you know, maybe not only doom

983
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 2: to not die and to live forever, but to die endlessly, endlessly,

984
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 2: you know, death after death after death. Every time he

985
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 2: teleports in and out of a child's home, and maybe

986
00:53:57,680 --> 00:53:58,839
Speaker 2: that's part of his longevity.

987
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, very good observation, Shadow.

988
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 2: App Yeah, anytime we can shoehorn some weird teleportation philosophy

989
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 2: into a Christmas tradition, I'm.

990
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 3: All for it, all right, Does that do it? For today.

991
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:14,400
Speaker 2: I guess that does it for today, but we'll be back,

992
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 2: you know, stay tuned. We should have a new episode

993
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 2: on Thursday unless we can't get it together. But I

994
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 2: think we can get it together. We're going to try

995
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 2: in the meantime and definitely write in with any of

996
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 2: your questions, concerns, suggestions for the futures, seasonal well wishes,

997
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 2: and so forth. All of it is fair game. Just

998
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 2: reminder of Stuff to Blow Your Mind is primarily a

999
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 2: science and culture podcast, with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays,

1000
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 2: short form episodes on Wednesdays and on Fridays. We set

1001
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 2: aside most serious concerns to just talk about a weird

1002
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 2: film on Weird House Cinema.

1003
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

1004
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

1005
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,400
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

1006
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:53,479
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

1007
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

1008
00:54:56,160 --> 00:55:04,240
Speaker 3: your Mind dot com.

1009
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 1: Stuffed Blow your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For more

1010
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1011
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.