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Speaker 1: This is Master's in Business with Barry rid Holds on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: This week on the podcast, I have yet another extra

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Speaker 2: special guest, Linda Gibson, CEO of Pigium Quantitative Solutions. She

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Speaker 2: has a really fascinating background, very clectic, a combination of

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Speaker 2: math and law. She has run a number of firms

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Speaker 2: and a number of divisions at large firms and traced

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Speaker 2: a career arc that's just very unusual compared to the

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Speaker 2: typical person in finance, eventually leading her to a point

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Speaker 2: where she's managing quants running about one hundred billion dollars

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Speaker 2: in assets. Really a fascinating background, and it just goes

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Speaker 2: to show you how broad and flexible the world of

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Speaker 2: finance is. That there are so many different ways you

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Speaker 2: can find yourself in a senior management position in this industry.

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Speaker 2: If you had to guess someone would run through this path,

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Speaker 2: you would never assume, well, you're going to come out

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Speaker 2: of law school and eventually you're going to be general counsel.

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Speaker 2: How does that lead to running a group of quants?

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Speaker 2: But that was Linda's Korea path. There are a few

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Speaker 2: people in the world who are more knowledgeable about the

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Speaker 2: management of asset managers and what it's like to actually

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Speaker 2: run a global organization and interact with lots of aspects

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Speaker 2: of the business of finance, whether that's acquisitions or compliance

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Speaker 2: or dealing with all the legalities of multi jurisdictional regulations.

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Speaker 2: She really has been the person who's lived this and

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Speaker 2: walk the walk. And I found this conversation to be

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Speaker 2: quite fascinating, and I think you will also, with no

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Speaker 2: further ado, my conversation with Linda Gibson, CEO of Pigum

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Speaker 2: Quantitative Solutions. So let's get into your background, which is

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Speaker 2: really kind of interesting. You get a BS in mathematics

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Speaker 2: and a jd from Boston University. Math and law. Yep,

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Speaker 2: not the usual combination, not at.

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Speaker 1: All, Barry. It is something Math has always come easy

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Speaker 1: to me since a child. So I was a math

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Speaker 1: major pretty much because it was an easy a for me.

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Speaker 2: Math is truth, It's absolutely it is.

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Speaker 1: I loved the fact that my grades weren't subject to

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Speaker 1: the subjectivity of my professors, and that there was always

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Speaker 1: a right and wrong answer and the one that's.

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Speaker 2: Until you get to applied mathematics, where it all goes off.

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Speaker 1: The rails, which, if you notice, that is where I stopped.

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Speaker 1: I didn't get an advanced degree in math.

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Speaker 2: But you do get the JD. And you said you

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Speaker 2: weren't a math nerd. You were not looking for a

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Speaker 2: job in finance. What happened?

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Speaker 1: I was not. I was waitressing one summer, my final

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Speaker 1: summer after my senior year, and a friend called and said,

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Speaker 1: I just interviewed with a financial services company. I'm not

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Speaker 1: interested in the job, but you might want to reach out.

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Speaker 1: And I literally reached out. It was Mass Financial Services.

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Speaker 1: I reached out, I got the interview, and I got

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Speaker 1: the job, and I started the next week. Didn't really

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Speaker 1: think about going into financial services. I thought it was

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Speaker 1: going to be, honestly a math teacher. I was thinking

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Speaker 1: about teaching in boarding school.

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Speaker 2: Wait, so you go to MFS MFI and was this

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Speaker 2: between college and law school or after you graduated law school?

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Speaker 1: It was between college and law school. So first job

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Speaker 1: out of college.

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Speaker 2: And you discover, hey, this finance stuff is kind of interesting.

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Speaker 2: What then led you to go to law school instead

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Speaker 2: of business school?

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Speaker 1: I worked with a bunch of lawyers, So I worked

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Speaker 1: at the third party administrator distribution arm of mutual fund

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Speaker 1: family at Mass Financial. So it's called the Banking Services

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Speaker 1: group when banks couldn't offer and distribute mutual funds. So

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Speaker 1: we had clients like Chase and City Bank and JP

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Speaker 1: Morgan and all of those, And so I worked with

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Speaker 1: a bunch of lawyers and our company was going through

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Speaker 1: transition at the time, and I thought I always wanted

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Speaker 1: I knew I wanted to get an advanced degree. My

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Speaker 1: father is still a practicing lawyer at eighty five, and

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Speaker 1: my grandfather was a lawyer.

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Speaker 2: So you come from a long family of attorneys.

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Speaker 1: I do. But my father advised me not to go

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Speaker 1: into law. He always wanted to be a stockbroker, even

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Speaker 1: though he's in trusts in estates, yes, So he was

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Speaker 1: never really interested in pushing me to go into the law.

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Speaker 1: And even though he worked for his father's law practice

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Speaker 1: with the name on the door, literally, that was not

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Speaker 1: an option for me.

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Speaker 2: That's so amusing because I immediately imagined getting pushed back

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Speaker 2: from the family. Hey, everybody here is a lawyer, our

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Speaker 2: name is on the door. You're turning your back on

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Speaker 2: the family business. No, such, Nope.

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Speaker 1: They were at a point where they anti nepitism or

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Speaker 1: nepotism was an issue, and they said, nope, you will

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Speaker 1: not be coming to work for this firm, so don't

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Speaker 1: even think about it.

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Speaker 2: Huh.

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Speaker 1: So I was literally sitting on the roof deck one night,

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Speaker 1: and I was balancing law business school, which one made

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Speaker 1: more sense for me, and didn't really know that much

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Speaker 1: about either. But I was very logical by nature, and

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Speaker 1: I was working with a bunch of lawyers at the time.

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Speaker 1: And I also loved the fact that, well, it took

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Speaker 1: one more a year to get through school, three years

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Speaker 1: versus two. But when you come out you are something,

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Speaker 1: You're a lawyer, you have something, and so off I

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Speaker 1: went to law school.

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Speaker 2: I thought you were going to say indebted, but it

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Speaker 2: really had too It really doesn't matter when you come

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Speaker 2: out of business school. You're an MBA wouldn't come out

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Speaker 2: of law school assuming you passed the bar, you're JD

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Speaker 2: and your license to practice. How soon after law school

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Speaker 2: did you realize I don't want to practice law?

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Speaker 1: Pretty soon?

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Speaker 2: I went in year third year law school.

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Speaker 1: It was pretty much the third year of law school.

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Speaker 1: I was in a immersive mock trial program where you

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Speaker 1: spend the whole year and you work for the DA's

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Speaker 1: office in the prosecutor's office. I thought I wanted to

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Speaker 1: be a lawyer. LA law was what it.

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Speaker 2: Was all about, exactly.

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Speaker 1: It was so cool, and so I thought, that's what

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Speaker 1: I want to do. I got into it. I wanted

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Speaker 1: every single one of my cases to settle. I did

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Speaker 1: not like law, especially trial work, at all. And I

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Speaker 1: was walking on the street and I ran into somebody

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Speaker 1: I had worked with at this banking services group of

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Speaker 1: MFS which had spun off and become Signature Financial Group,

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Speaker 1: and the woman said to me, you might want to

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Speaker 1: come back and work for us. Have you thought about it?

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Speaker 1: And I said absolutely, I'm in what do I need

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Speaker 1: to do? And I started working for them part time

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Speaker 1: during my third year of law school, and then worked

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Speaker 1: for them ten years after.

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Speaker 2: That's interesting. When did the Harvard Advanced Management Program come along?

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Speaker 1: That came along much later. So I spent the first

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Speaker 1: decade of my career as a mutual fund attorney, which

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Speaker 1: was really in.

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Speaker 2: The house for not for a law firm, but for

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Speaker 2: a mutual fund related company.

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Speaker 1: Right this was the Signature Financial Group. And that was

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Speaker 1: a great opportunity to learn, frankly, because not only was

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Speaker 1: I writing offering documents, I was reading I mean, how

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Speaker 1: many people do you know that have read the forty

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Speaker 1: Act and read the various Use its Directives, which is

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Speaker 1: the basically the UK equivalent to the forty Act.

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Speaker 2: I saw a lot of people keep it on the

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Speaker 2: nightstand in case they.

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Speaker 1: Case I tired, Yeah, put right out right. So that

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Speaker 1: was just a really good foundation for me. I also sat,

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Speaker 1: as I said, we were the third party distributor for

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Speaker 1: all of these major companies, so I was on twelve

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Speaker 1: different boards, not on them, but I was the officer,

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Speaker 1: so I was taking minutes. So I was learning just

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Speaker 1: a ton about the mutual fund industry and working with

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Speaker 1: these big global companies. But then this company, I'm getting

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Speaker 1: off topic of the Advanced Management degree, but this company

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Speaker 1: launched a new investment fund structure called Global Hub and

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Speaker 1: Spoke or master Feeder you might have heard of it.

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Speaker 1: And I was chosen by the CEO to go travel

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Speaker 1: globally with him to not only get big firms the

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Speaker 1: likes of HSBC, Julius Beher those types to adopt this

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Speaker 1: fund structure, but also to get regulatory approval. So I

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Speaker 1: was traveling all around the globe. This is I was

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Speaker 1: in my twenties at Chris.

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Speaker 2: It had a lot of fun on the company dime.

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Speaker 1: It was very, very fun, weird runt of the bus

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Speaker 1: front of the US. Yeah. Well, we actually had a

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Speaker 1: flat in London, so I was going to Luxembourg, Germany, Switzerland,

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Speaker 1: the UK trying to get regulatory approval of this mutual

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Speaker 1: fund structure. So it was really really a great foundation

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Speaker 1: for me and I did that for about ten years,

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Speaker 1: and this is where I moved over to UAM at

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Speaker 1: the time, which is the first multi boutique investment business,

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Speaker 1: and I moved over there into their third party mutual

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Speaker 1: fund business as general counsel.

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Speaker 2: So that's the real interesting question is why general counsel

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Speaker 2: in house when given your background, you could have gone

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Speaker 2: to any of the big firms Scadden elsewhere and made

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Speaker 2: a ton of money working as an attorney working for

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Speaker 2: these big fun companies.

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Speaker 1: It's ironic that you said that you said Scadden.

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Speaker 2: Because not ironic at all.

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Speaker 1: When I was thinking about going to Old Mutual, I

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Speaker 1: was offered a job at Scadden that same day for

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Speaker 1: the same amount of money, and I knew UAM was

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Speaker 1: potentially going to be acquired, and I knew it was

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Speaker 1: a riskier business, but I thought I can go work

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Speaker 1: for a law firm and then eventually become a general

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Speaker 1: counsel or. I can just skip the law firm step,

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Speaker 1: especially working at a firm like Scadden, and go directly

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Speaker 1: to the general council job, which I thought was much

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Speaker 1: more interesting to me. So even though Scadden had such

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Speaker 1: a big name, I decided to go to UAM.

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Speaker 2: And it's a really challenging life work balance. At my

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Speaker 2: my friends who all went to big firms like you

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Speaker 2: hear stories and all they do is wine. Why don't

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Speaker 2: you quit? I can't leave. I'm making so much money,

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Speaker 2: but you're miserable. I'm just going to do this for

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Speaker 2: another five years. I've heard every ten twenty years it

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Speaker 2: keeps going. So you skip that went in house, never

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Speaker 2: looked back.

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Speaker 1: Never looked back, and the firm got acquired pretty much

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Speaker 1: a year later. I was told to shut down my

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Speaker 1: division or my business unit, which I did, and more interestingly,

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Speaker 1: given my us its background, in the fact that I

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Speaker 1: had traveled globally. This was a South African based firm,

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Speaker 1: so Old Mutual, but it was listed in London, so

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Speaker 1: the head office was in London. They were very interested

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Speaker 1: in my global experience and my regulatory experience, so they said, hey,

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Speaker 1: you want to become general counsel of the holding company.

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Speaker 1: Why wouldn't you? So I then put all of my

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Speaker 1: forty act work aside, and that's when I really learned

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Speaker 1: the art of negotiation. They had forty four affiliates at

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Speaker 1: the time. We had to convert them from revenue share

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Speaker 1: to profit sharing. We had to put equity in the

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Speaker 1: hands of the founders and their management teams. We were

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Speaker 1: doing M and A work. We were disposing of firms

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Speaker 1: that weren't strategic, we were acquiring firms. So I ended

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Speaker 1: up negotiating with so many CEOs CIOs and founders. That

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Speaker 1: was really eye opening. When people have self interest and

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Speaker 1: it affects their wallets, they are very interesting people. So

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Speaker 1: I had to.

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Speaker 2: Pivot and very phrase interesting people. Yeah, are you New

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Speaker 2: York based, London based or Nylon back and forth.

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Speaker 1: I was Boston based. We were Boston based, but we

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Speaker 1: had our parent company was in London, and then the

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Speaker 1: ultimate insurance company was in South Africa, so I was

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Speaker 1: in London quarterly. And then we had affiliates. We had

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Speaker 1: forty four affiliates and they were all over the US,

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Speaker 1: but they were also in the UK and Tokyo.

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Speaker 2: At the time, so you were really on a plane

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Speaker 2: a lot global. I think. I think the flight from

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Speaker 2: Vancouver to Tokyo is fast than the flight from New

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Speaker 2: York to South Africa. That's a bear of a flight,

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Speaker 2: isn't it?

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Speaker 1: It is? But South Africa is really amazing. And it

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Speaker 1: was interesting going into Cape Town and looking around. The

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Speaker 1: brand Old Mutual was like Coca Cola here. It was

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Speaker 1: on every building everywhere. It was really interesting. They had

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Speaker 1: offices in Cape Town, and Joe Burke I preferred Cape

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Speaker 1: Town of course.

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Speaker 2: But so the obvious question, given this background in law

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Speaker 2: and working on mutual funds and eventually becoming general counsel,

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Speaker 2: how does this prep you for the role you have

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Speaker 2: today essentially hurting cats and managing a whole bunch of quants.

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Speaker 1: Again, the learning the negotiation skills really helped a lot

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Speaker 1: in dealing with managing investment professionals as well as managing quants.

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Speaker 1: As you know, quants have extremely high IQs. I mean

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Speaker 1: our firm pgum quant we have twenty nine PhDs. Our

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Speaker 1: CIO is literally an x rocket scientists to use to

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Speaker 1: work at NASA, and then we have an advisor to

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Speaker 1: the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the UK as a CIO,

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Speaker 1: so these are very very smart people. Managing them you

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Speaker 1: definitely have to adapt your style a bit, so you

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Speaker 1: have to learn how to deal with smart people as

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Speaker 1: well as introverts. We have a lot of introverts at

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Speaker 1: are firm. They sometimes have trouble talking to clients. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: they have trouble talking to me, so I need to

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Speaker 1: adjust my management style. But what I learned really early

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Speaker 1: in my career is that it's not about IQ, it's

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Speaker 1: about well, it is about IQ. We need very smart people,

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Speaker 1: but EQ is equally important. So what I have to

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Speaker 1: do for them is I have to lead them, direct them,

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Speaker 1: manage them and then sort of push them, but then

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Speaker 1: just leave them alone. I want to make sure I've

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Speaker 1: give them the resources that they need, but also give

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Speaker 1: them the direction that they need. And having this legal background,

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Speaker 1: what was really great about it is when you're a lawyer,

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Speaker 1: you're at every important meeting. You're in all the board meetings,

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Speaker 1: midting everything, You're in the board meetings, you're in the

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Speaker 1: compensation meetings, you're in the internal audit meetings. So you

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Speaker 1: really learned everything about a business, everything that goes right

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Speaker 1: and everything that goes wrong. So that really helped me

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Speaker 1: understand what it was like or what it would be

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Speaker 1: like to manage a company. And then I had this

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Speaker 1: strange seven year stint of heading global distribution, which is

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Speaker 1: that was very interesting. I didn't want that job at all.

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Speaker 1: The CEO of our firm came to me and said,

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Speaker 1: I don't really need a chief operating officer, but what

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Speaker 1: I do need is a global head of distribution. Can

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Speaker 1: you build a centralized global sales team? And oh, by

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Speaker 1: the way, your compensation is going to be tied to

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Speaker 1: assets raised, which is the first time that ever happened

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Speaker 1: in my life.

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Speaker 2: Right, interesting perspective change, eating what you kill.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I had never sold anything either, So again, what

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Speaker 1: I had to do there was be comfortable with hiring

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Speaker 1: really smart people. So I analyzed the landscape, figured out

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Speaker 1: where there was demand for our products, made sure we

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Speaker 1: had the right products to sell, made sure that the

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Speaker 1: regulatory and the expense hurdles were too high to go in.

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Speaker 1: And then I had to build a lean team of

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Speaker 1: very smart salespeople that could sell our products in these

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Speaker 1: various jurisdictions. But also, when you think you're managing people

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Speaker 1: so far away from you, the distance is so vast

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Speaker 1: that you have to trust them. We had people in Dubai.

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Speaker 1: I need to make sure those people are doing what

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Speaker 1: they say they're doing and that I can trust them,

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Speaker 1: and never mind also people in China, Hong Kong, Tokyo.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes we had language barriers, so again I had to

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Speaker 1: make sure that I hired the best people that I

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Speaker 1: could really trust to do what they needed to do,

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Speaker 1: and then again let them go. I also needed to

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Speaker 1: learn fast that when somebody is not right or not

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Speaker 1: a good cultural fit, that you need to make a

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Speaker 1: change very very quickly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, not to say the very least. So let's talk

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Speaker 2: a little bit about your work with Pigium. They are

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Speaker 2: one of the world's top twenty asset managers well over

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Speaker 2: a trillion dollars. What was it like settling in to

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Speaker 2: such a giant firm coming from more reasonable both size

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Speaker 2: firms in the early part of your career.

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Speaker 1: Well, I came from a more reasonably sized firm. It

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Speaker 1: was a very very easy transition for me because I

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Speaker 1: spent seventeen years at an insurance owned multi boutique at

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Speaker 1: the head office in various executive positions, So it was

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Speaker 1: a surprisingly easy transition for me.

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Speaker 2: Close of the insurance background, or because of.

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Speaker 1: Just the multi boutique background. So I wasn't on the

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Speaker 1: insurance side. So I was at the asset management arm

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Speaker 1: of the Old Mutual insurance enterprise, and I worked at

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Speaker 1: the head office. I was after I was general counsel,

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Speaker 1: I was chief operating officer and head of affiliate management.

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Speaker 1: So I oversaw nineteen different investment boutiques that frankly spanned

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Speaker 1: the gamut of offerings. We had timber, we had real estate,

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Speaker 1: we had global fixed income, quant equity, fundamental equity, managed futures,

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Speaker 1: everything you name it had it. And Old Mutual was ODDO,

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Speaker 1: South Africa, London, New York, Boston.

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Speaker 2: Boston, Okay. So you're used to working cross timelines and.

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Speaker 1: Regions, absolutely, and having worked in that environment for so

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Speaker 1: long made moving over to pGEM and pGEM Quant Solutions

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Speaker 1: a pretty easy transition for me. I was really excited

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Speaker 1: about it. I had been watching PGIM, I had been

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Speaker 1: watching their reputation and their brand grow exponentially under David

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Speaker 1: Hunt's leadership, and then I had also known a lot

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Speaker 1: about pGEM. Quant at the time was called QMA, and

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Speaker 1: we had a firm at Old Mutual two firms Acadian

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Speaker 1: and Analytic, who are both quant firms, and I sat

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Speaker 1: on both of their boards for years, and as head

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Speaker 1: of affiliate management, you're responsible for their p and ls,

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Speaker 1: so you're in their shorts with respect to their strategy,

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Speaker 1: their product development, any liftouts they would do, making sure

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Speaker 1: they had appropriate distribution resources and funding, made sure their

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Speaker 1: succession plans were set and were executed seamlessly. So I

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Speaker 1: spent a lot of time with quantitative firms and I

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Speaker 1: really really liked it. Coming from a math science background,

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Speaker 1: I very much liked the systematic nature of a quant firm,

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Speaker 1: but I also liked it pagem quant. We like to

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Speaker 1: call it the fusion of art and science, so you

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Speaker 1: have the fundamental insights plus the systematic And while I

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Speaker 1: am a math science person, I am very very artsy

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Speaker 1: and creative. I love a good craft. My daughter got

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Speaker 1: married two weeks ago and I spent my winter learning

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Speaker 1: how to day coupage oyster shells with maps of the

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Speaker 1: cape and gold gilding along the edges. So I spent

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Speaker 1: I don't know how many weekends doing two hundred of

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Speaker 1: these over the winter last year. So that is a

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Speaker 1: little snapshot into my life. But to take it back.

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Speaker 1: So I very much like sort of the art and

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Speaker 1: science of quant investing. So it was a natural fit

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Speaker 1: for me to come to PGM, but also to come

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Speaker 1: to pagemqu and it's been it was remarkably easy to

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Speaker 1: transition to the firm and more interesting to me. When

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Speaker 1: I became COO, I expected, frankly, organ rejection because I

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Speaker 1: didn't come from the investment management side of the business,

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Speaker 1: and often you think that investment professionals want CEOs who

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Speaker 1: are investment professionals. And I was shocked and delighted frankly

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Speaker 1: when I was appointed a Chief operating officer of PGAM.

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Speaker 1: Kwant that the investment group embraced it. They loved the

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Speaker 1: fact that I would support them and lean into them

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Speaker 1: and really let them do what they do and not

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Speaker 1: micromanage them.

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Speaker 2: So CIO and CEO are very very different skill sets. CIO,

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Speaker 2: you're essentially dealing with a probabilistic process trying to make

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Speaker 2: assessments about an unknown outcome in the future. CEOs have

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Speaker 2: to manage people, they have to manage budgets. It's much

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Speaker 2: more blocking and tackling and less probabilistic than the investment side.

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Speaker 2: So the fact that you're now CEO of this group

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Speaker 2: of quants but don't have a background as a CIO,

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Speaker 2: that I don't think that at all would work to

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Speaker 2: your disadvantage.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I saw it in real life when being

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Speaker 1: part of a multi boutique and being on the boards

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Speaker 1: of nineteen investment managers. I saw the difference between the

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Speaker 1: CEOs that had been investment professionals or CIOs and the

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Speaker 1: ones that were heads of distribution or were in operations.

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Speaker 1: It is interesting, though the majority are either in distribution

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Speaker 1: or CIOs, they don't tend to be lawyers. So but regardless,

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Speaker 1: I do think that CIOs tend, if I'm going to stereotype,

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Speaker 1: they tend to do better managing money.

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Speaker 2: Than people I know. That's absolutely I don't think that

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Speaker 2: that's over generalizing at all. What's kind of interesting is

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Speaker 2: I thought the ease going from Old Mutual to pGEM,

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Speaker 2: given both of their insurance backgrounds, might have been that,

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Speaker 2: but you're suggesting it was less had to do with

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Speaker 2: that and more had to do with just running a

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Speaker 2: broad assortment of different groups, departments, division strategies, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, both pGEM and All Mutual are similar with respect

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Speaker 1: to their investment management businesses tend to be pretty separate

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Speaker 1: and distinct from their insurance businesses. So they report in

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Speaker 1: and they have quarterly business reviews and all of that stuff,

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Speaker 1: and they dovetail nicely, but they really are run separately.

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Speaker 2: So you were general counsel and how to manage a

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Speaker 2: large group of attorneys, and now you're managing a large

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Speaker 2: group of quants. Any similarities or differences that are noteworthy

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Speaker 2: between hurting each herd of cats over there?

401
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Speaker 1: There are similarities in that they both tend to be meticulars,

402
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Speaker 1: so they're both type A. They're both very very smart,

403
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Speaker 1: and they tend to get into the weeds and the details.

404
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 1: So you have to constantly take them up. So at

405
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Speaker 1: our firm, putting portfolio managers in front of prospects and clients,

406
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Speaker 1: we constantly have to train them, give them presentation training.

407
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Speaker 1: We need to often bring in CPMs to help translate

408
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Speaker 1: their knowledge into Layman's terms. It cpmbing being client portfolio managers.

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Speaker 1: So these are the people that explain what we do

410
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Speaker 1: in Layman's terms.

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Speaker 2: To prospects client facing.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and many of our as I said before, many

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Speaker 1: of our investment professionals or introverts. They do not want

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Speaker 1: to be in front of clients or prospects. Lawyers can

415
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Speaker 1: be the same, and you often have to get lawyers

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Speaker 1: to think like business people. You do the same thing

417
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Speaker 1: with investment professionals. They don't have to think like business

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Speaker 1: professional as much as lawyers do, but they still need

419
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Speaker 1: to adjust their thinking a little bit. And I often

420
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Speaker 1: need to change my leadership style. And I learned early on.

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Speaker 1: I took a personality profiling test. I don't know if

422
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Speaker 1: you've ever heard of it. It's called Insights Discovery, and

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Speaker 1: they put you into a color bracket and I'm red,

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Speaker 1: which means I tend to like people to be be bright,

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Speaker 1: be brief, and be gone. That's how I like people

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Speaker 1: to interact with me. But there are a lot of

427
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Speaker 1: people that want a lot of data. They want a

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Speaker 1: lot of information. You need to spend time with them.

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Speaker 1: You need to ask them how their kids are. Some

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Speaker 1: are extroverts, they don't care about the topic. They just

431
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Speaker 1: want to have fun, you know. Others care more about socializing.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of different ways people like to take

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Speaker 1: in information. So when you're managing lawyers and you're managing quants,

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Speaker 1: there is something similar there. Managing distribution people is a

435
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Speaker 1: whole different ball of wax, though that was fascinating when

436
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Speaker 1: I managed distribution group.

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Speaker 2: Salespeople respond to financial incentives.

438
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 1: They do. They also can be very needy and they

439
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: can require a lot of your time. And they also

440
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: want to be praised a bit, huh, which is interesting

441
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: although everybody, I think everyone likes praise.

442
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 2: I guess. But if you're on a variable com system,

443
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,919
Speaker 2: depending on how successfully you raise assets, it's there in

444
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 2: black and white on the sales log you've raised X. Hey,

445
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,679
Speaker 2: do I really need to tell you this is fantastic?

446
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 2: You did a great job this quarter.

447
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 1: You do. Actually, what I did learn is you do

448
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 1: and the more you do it, the better they perform. Now,

449
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: I think again, that works everywhere. What do they say

450
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 1: you have to say something positive X number of times

451
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:32,400
Speaker 1: the sandwich?

452
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're gonna say something negative. You've got to put

453
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 2: something positive on either side.

454
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: Either side of it.

455
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 2: Criticism sandwich I find not amusing. So let's drill down

456
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 2: a little bit to the various quant strategies that pGEM utilizes.

457
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 2: Is a different asset classes, different geographies, different strategies. What

458
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:54,239
Speaker 2: is the full spectrum of offerings pGEM has for their

459
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 2: Quant group.

460
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: Short answer is all of the above. So pagem Quant

461
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: is divided into three platforms. We have our quant Equity platform,

462
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 1: which manages risk control equity portfolios that were quants, so

463
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: they're model and factor driven. They cover core value, opportunistic equity,

464
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 1: and indexing. Then we have a multi asset platform. The

465
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: multi asset platform manages things like offerings that give you

466
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 1: inflation hedging against inflation, so we use publicly traded real

467
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: assets and commodities. We do defensive equity strategies. We also

468
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 1: do asset allocation and overlays. And then we have a

469
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: third platform which pGEM Quant acquired right before I joined,

470
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: which was another interest of mine was integrating a new

471
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: firm into the fold, and this is Pgemwouldwanti. It's our

472
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: London based liquid alternatives firm. It offers global macro trend following.

473
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 1: It also has inflation hedging products as well as macrotail

474
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: risk products, so we kind of cover and we go

475
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: up and down the market spectrum from microcap all the

476
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: way up to large cap and then we go across geography,

477
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: so we'll do US, International, EMX, China, you name it.

478
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 1: We offer most of it in quant form. The one

479
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: thing we don't offer is privates. Our sister company does that.

480
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 2: What's the name of the sister Hume.

481
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,959
Speaker 1: We have well Page in private capital. We have pGEM

482
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: real Estate. We actually have six sisters. We have pGEM

483
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 1: Fixed Income, Jennison PGE and Portfolio Advisory and pGEM Investments.

484
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: Those all wrapped together make up that one point two

485
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: trillion dollars.

486
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 2: That is PGIM really interesting. So let's talk a little

487
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 2: bit about multi asset opportunities. Starting with you have a

488
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 2: year like last year twenty twenty two. Stocks are down,

489
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 2: bonds are down, all these asset classes are under pressure.

490
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 2: How does that affect all the various strategies that you

491
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:57,919
Speaker 2: guys are running.

492
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 1: Well, Clearly the markets affect our strategies. But that's one

493
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: of the reasons that we feel strongly that quants excel

494
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: in volatile times, mostly because they have a long term approach.

495
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: They're data driven, they're disciplined, they're diversified. So we have

496
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 1: three hundred plus stocks in our portfolios. We look at

497
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 1: hundreds of pieces of data on ten thousand companies every day,

498
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: so we're very, very diversified. But the other thing about

499
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: being a quant which is nice is it removes the

500
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: emotional bias from picking socks, so you don't get caught

501
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: up in what's going on in the market and freaking

502
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 1: out in essence and making bad decisions. You have your

503
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: models to ground you. Sure there's fundamental insights on top,

504
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: and there are people here back to that fusion of

505
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: art and science, but we have the models as our bedrock.

506
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 2: So, given what twenty twenty two is like and obviously

507
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: very challenging, what's it like when the calendar flips really

508
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 2: was last October twenty twenty two, where market's bottomed and

509
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 2: took off. How does that change in market regime effects

510
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 2: how you're going about your business or is it still

511
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 2: the same thing, just whether market's going up and down,

512
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 2: you're still applying the same strategies.

513
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: We're applying the same strategies. But having said that, and

514
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 1: again we offer so many different strategies, but what we

515
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: do have and people have been very very interested in them,

516
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: are sort of that in the inflation hedging strategies that

517
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: we offer the custom mandates. We're all about solving our clients'

518
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: needs not only today but tomorrow. So how do we

519
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: work with those clients to figure out what they're trying

520
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 1: to solve for some downside protection, so we've been recently

521
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: putting together portfolios that have downside protection. They might limit

522
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: the upside a little bit. We can adjust that depending

523
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: on our client's preference and needs and wants. The macro

524
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: tail risk products, the inflation hedging products, all of these

525
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: different things that are helping clients right now move away

526
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: from the sixty to forty portfolio is just not working

527
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: for clients right now. And sure they want to put

528
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: money into privates. Privates are big right now, and pGEM

529
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: is leaning into our privates and our alts, meaning pGEM

530
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 1: at our head office. But at the same time, people

531
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: need liquid investments, and so what we provide for them

532
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: is liquid solutions to help them navigate through these turbulent times.

533
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 2: Huh really interesting. So the bulk of what you're doing

534
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 2: is liquid. You don't need a gate to get out.

535
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 2: These are all stocks, bonds, other assets that are readily

536
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 2: tradable any given day.

537
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: Yep. All liquid, including publicly traded real assets and commodities.

538
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: Clearly liquidity is a little tougher with sort of the

539
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: microcap and the small all. So what we do what

540
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: our models do there is they assess the trading costs

541
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: of getting in and out of companies, because we want

542
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: to make sure, of course that you don't pay more

543
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: in trading costs to get out than your alpha, so

544
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: we have to pay attention to that. We also have

545
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: people that use us for overlay strategies and they often

546
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: have to get out on a dime, so we need

547
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: to make sure that everything is very, very liquid.

548
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 2: That's really interesting. How bespoke are the portfolios and the

549
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 2: solutions that you come up with for clients. Are they

550
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 2: really customized for individual institutions or how do you think

551
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 2: about that approach?

552
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: They're extremely customizable across all of our platforms. So even

553
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: I'll give you an example, our quant equity platform, we

554
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: have an ESG solutions offering. We had a very very

555
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,959
Speaker 1: large E andF endowment and foundation come to us and

556
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: say we need to get we need to solve for

557
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: our ESG needs, and we want to do that. We

558
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: want to track a certain index, but we want to

559
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: take energy out of the portfolio. So what we've been

560
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: able to do is we've been able to help investors

561
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: solve for their ESG needs wherever they are in their journey,

562
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: and I get that it's different for different people. But

563
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: that's what's really unique about our offerings is that we're

564
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: able to sit there and talk to you and say, Berry,

565
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: what's important to you? Do you care about water usage?

566
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: Do you care about women on boards? You care about energy?

567
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,959
Speaker 1: Do you care about carbon footprint? How much do you

568
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: want it to impact your returns? Or maybe you don't

569
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: want it to impact your returns at all? So how

570
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: do we work with you to create a portfolio that

571
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: does what you wish? So that's been really interesting and

572
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: we've gotten a lot of traction there.

573
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 2: Huh, really super intriguing. So you mentioned some people are

574
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 2: looking for inflation hedging. I would imagine that would have

575
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 2: been really useful last year. Are you still getting demand

576
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 2: for that? Given how far ce is fallen from the peak?

577
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 2: When was that June twenty twenty two something like that?

578
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 2: Is there still a demand for inflation hatching?

579
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: There still is? It may not be as in demand

580
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: as it's been, but if you think about where we are,

581
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: the macro environment is so uncertain. People still don't know

582
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: whether we're going to have a recession. People don't know

583
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: people are assuming there's going to be a recession in Europe,

584
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: so people just don't know. So I think they're really

585
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: trying to pardon the use of the word hedge, but

586
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: hedge their bets and make sure that they have downside protection.

587
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: And people get a bit scared in this type of

588
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: environment and they want to diversify their portfolio. So we

589
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: just what we want to do is we want to

590
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: partner with our clients. And they might have any number

591
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 1: of needs. They might have, you know, risk parameters, they

592
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: might have liquidity needs, they might want to track a benchmark,

593
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: they might want to just absolute return, they might want

594
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: real return. Whatever they need, we will solve for.

595
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 2: So about half of your clients Bullpark are large institutions.

596
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 2: You mentioned endowments and foundations, and given the background of

597
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 2: pGEM with insurance, I think about future liabilities. Is there

598
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 2: a lot of matching? Hey, in twenty thirty five, we

599
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 2: have this sort of expected demand on our capital. How

600
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 2: important is future liability matching to custom solutions?

601
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: It's not. We don't do as much of that at

602
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: pGEM quant So we do manage money for the prudential

603
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: general account, but it tends to be in equities, and

604
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: we do manage some money for them through our pagem

605
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: would WANTI. But as you know, insurance companies have various

606
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: constraints and that they need to solve for these things,

607
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: and they have much smaller buckets of risk assets. So

608
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: should insurance companies invest in equities? We very much want

609
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: to be a part of that, and we do manage

610
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: equities on behalf of our parent company. But lucky for

611
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: us is we don't We don't have to think about

612
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: paying claims. We just have to think about managing the

613
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: money in the best way that we can.

614
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 2: What about since people are talking about hedging, how do

615
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 2: you think about risk management? Are you looking at a

616
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 2: series of small wins or is there sometimes hey, we're

617
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 2: going to take a big bet because we have a

618
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 2: lot of conviction here.

619
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 1: So risk management is very much embedded in our process.

620
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: So it's not an afterthought. It is something that we

621
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: pay attention to. And clearly, you have to take risk

622
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 1: if you're going to get gained. So but what our

623
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: models try to do is take that the risks, the

624
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 1: risks that are going to benefit us, and then manage

625
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 1: the risks that are not. We tend to take a

626
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: lot of singles and be consistent, but It depends on

627
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: what our clients are looking for. So I say that

628
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: with respect to our equity book, but then we have

629
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: also we take much you know, larger bets with our

630
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: Pigeono with war platform as well as if you're thinking

631
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: about maybe a small cap investment versus a large cap investment.

632
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: So it really goes up and down the gamut depending

633
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 1: on what our clients are looking for, what their risk

634
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: tolerances are. We try to solve for their risk needs.

635
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 1: And again quants can do that pretty effectively because of

636
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: their process.

637
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:27,720
Speaker 2: So how big a differentiator is pgeum quantitative solutions to pgeum. Again,

638
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,439
Speaker 2: given the insurance background, I don't know of a lot

639
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 2: of other large insurers whose financial arms are leaning this

640
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 2: heavily into the quant side.

641
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: I think it's a big differentiator for pgeum one. I

642
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: just pGEM has one of, as you mentioned, one of

643
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: the broadest asset management offerings out there, and I feel

644
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,760
Speaker 1: like quant is a very important component to the offering,

645
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: especially how if you think about how technology is advancing

646
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 1: and it's becoming more and more a part of our lives.

647
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: AI is evolving, and we've been doing that for a

648
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 1: long long time, So I think it's just natural to

649
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: have a quant manager as part of your stable of offerings.

650
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,760
Speaker 1: But yes, I do believe that it's a differentiator for pechim.

651
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 2: Really really intriguing. So there's a couple of quotes of

652
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,919
Speaker 2: yours that I have to ask about because they're kind

653
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 2: of fascinating. Quote. Softer skills are more valuable than ever.

654
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 2: They are what clients want. So first I have to ask,

655
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 2: what do you mean by softer skills? Tell us about that.

656
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: I often refer to softer skills when I'm talking about

657
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 1: women in management. Actually, when you think about the ability

658
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: to connect with people, to really listen to understand what

659
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: their wants and needs are, that many people don't do that,

660
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 1: and I feel like I feel as though softer skills,

661
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 1: especially in this tech enabled environment, so in a hybrid environment,

662
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: when you're streaming and dealing with people by zoom and

663
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: teams and you're not seeing people in the hallway, these

664
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: softer skills really really differentiate you. And one of the

665
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 1: things that I've been doing as CEO during CODE or

666
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: what I did during COVID and I've continued to do now,

667
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 1: is you lack that ability to run into people in

668
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: the kitchen and to connect with them and really build

669
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: a relationship, because I do believe that building relationships is

670
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:32,760
Speaker 1: important to building trust. Building trust is essential to building

671
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 1: working relationships with your business partners. And so what I

672
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: started doing was I started doing a video series. If

673
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 1: you think carpool karaoke. I would drive my dog to

674
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,479
Speaker 1: the dog park in the mornings, and it was about

675
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: a forty minute drive, and I would do a lot

676
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: of reflecting and thinking about strategy, people, whatever I was

677
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 1: doing at work, and instead of thinking about it, I

678
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: thought I'm going to do some little video segments too minutes.

679
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: Didn't really think about what I was going to say,

680
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,320
Speaker 1: just got on the and talked to the employees of

681
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: our company. And I did that regularly, so they would

682
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: know what I'm up to, what I'm thinking about. They

683
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: knew a little about me personally, but they also knew

684
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 1: what I was thinking about, what the management team was

685
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: thinking about, and what we were up to. And that's

686
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: an example of a softer skill that it's that ability

687
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 1: to connect with people and to think about how you

688
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: can connect with people in different ways to build their

689
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: trust and get to know you better.

690
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 2: You mentioned the various hybrid work options that, especially what

691
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 2: took place during the pandemic. Are you guys still operating

692
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 2: on a hybrid basis and what does that do for you?

693
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: We are, we're working in a hybrid three days in

694
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,280
Speaker 1: the office, two days work from home, and I believe

695
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 1: that it's the best of both worlds because we have

696
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: those three days to collaborate, to continue to get to

697
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: know each other, to brains dorm and then we have

698
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,720
Speaker 1: two days that we can do heads down work, meaning

699
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: the work from home days. And I also feel that

700
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 1: we get a lot of credit for doing that with

701
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: our employees, our employment. Our employees are happier in this environment.

702
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 1: It's what they want, it's what they're getting used to.

703
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: And I was just listening to actually Bloomberg this morning

704
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: where they were talking about how the trains are getting

705
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: busier and workplaces are going are changing their hybrid schedules.

706
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: So I'll be interested to see what happens in the

707
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: next year or so with respect to hybrid, but I

708
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: think right now it's a pretty good balance.

709
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 2: Does it help with employee retention and even new hires?

710
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,800
Speaker 1: It does. We've actually had certain people that wanted full

711
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: work from home, which we don't do so it is

712
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: something that I believe companies need to do, they need

713
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: to pay attention to that. I think our offices are

714
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: in Newark, newt so hybrid is pretty appealing and I

715
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: do think it's a differentiator, or maybe it's not even

716
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: a differentiator. It might just be table stakes.

717
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 2: Right Amongst the big banks, a lot of them have

718
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 2: been gone back to JP Morgan, Chase, Goldman, Sachs, mongst On.

719
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 2: A lot of these have gone back to five days

720
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 2: in the office, and there's been some pushback, not so

721
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 2: much from the young twenty somethings who really need to

722
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 2: be immersed, but the slightly older generation late twenties, early thirties,

723
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 2: who really know how to work remote right.

724
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 1: I believe it's important for the younger generation because you

725
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: want that mentoring. You want to be able to again

726
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: run into people in the halls, get to know them,

727
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: get to understand what they do, and I do think

728
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,479
Speaker 1: that's important. I think flexibility is also important to many

729
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 1: Many have either young kids at home, or they have

730
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 1: ailing parents, or they have hobbies, or they just have

731
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:03,800
Speaker 1: wellness goals. So getting that balance right can be tricky.

732
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 1: But this is again why I think the three days

733
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: is a good balance. It's a nice way to solve

734
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 1: for our employees' needs but also get the work done

735
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: and build a culture. Building a culture. We haven't talked

736
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 1: much about that, but one of the first things that

737
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: I did when I took over as CEO was work

738
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: with the employees to reset our values and then not

739
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: only reset them, but then drive them home and live

740
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: by them and make changes based on them. And I

741
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: think that building that culture it's very, very difficult to

742
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: do if you're in a fully worked from home environment.

743
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 2: You know that makes that makes a lot of sense.

744
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 2: Last quote of yours. You've talked a lot about leadership

745
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 2: and diversity, especially when it comes to women in finance.

746
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 2: Tell us a little bit about your thoughts about the

747
00:41:56,239 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 2: best strategies for leading an industry that's spent so many

748
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 2: decades as a male dominated bastion.

749
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: Again, it's lean into those softer skills. I think it's

750
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: a trifecta of opportunity right now for women. So you

751
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: have companies and boards that are trying to increase their

752
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: diversity stats, so they're more open to women in senior

753
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: leadership positions. The hybrid work environment makes it easier for

754
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 1: women that are balancing multiple, multiple different chores and responsibilities,

755
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: and then you have the benefit of women having these

756
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 1: softer skills that work in this new tech, tech enabled environment.

757
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,720
Speaker 1: So I think it's a great opportunity for women going forward.

758
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,879
Speaker 1: I think the issue really is the pipeline. And one

759
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 1: of the things that I'm passionate about, and we're doing

760
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: a lot with at pGEM quant is we're going out

761
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: and doing community work. We're reaching out into the newer community,

762
00:42:56,080 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: and we're working with kids as young as elementary school kids,

763
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: so we're getting them interested in asset management. We're doing

764
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: things like shark Tank and job fares and things like

765
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: that that are kind of mock job fares, and it's

766
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: just been really rewarding for us because we have to

767
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: start at such a young age. So these women and

768
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: other diverse populations will continue to have an interest in

769
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: asset management.

770
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 2: You're playing a long game. You're planning seeds ten fifteen

771
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 2: years in advance. Because none of this is going to

772
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:29,959
Speaker 2: pay off for a long time.

773
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 1: We need to be patient as we invest for the

774
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: long term. We need to be patient, but not complacent.

775
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 2: Not complacent. So let's jump to our favorite questions that

776
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 2: we ask all of our guests starting with Hey, what

777
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 2: kept you entertained during the lockdown? What are you streaming

778
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:47,720
Speaker 2: these days?

779
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: Gosh meaning streaming on television?

780
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 2: Sure, television, podcast doesn't matter what whatever audio video is

781
00:43:58,400 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 2: entertaining you.

782
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:04,280
Speaker 1: So like documentaries, So what I was looking or watching

783
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 1: this weekend was fantastic Fungi, which I highly recommend. This

784
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: is all about the medicinal and healing properties of mushrooms.

785
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,760
Speaker 1: If one has ailing parents or is having health issues,

786
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 1: I highly encourage you to tune in. But it is

787
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: also a beautifully beautifully filmed documentary. I also live on

788
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: the Cape, so I had to you know, the shark

789
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,399
Speaker 1: population is booming, so I had to watch After the Bite,

790
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: which is all about the shark population on Cape Cod.

791
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 1: But other than that, as far as sort of more mainstream,

792
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:42,320
Speaker 1: I did like Ted Lasso very much. It was entertaining.

793
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: You always got a good tidbit of knowledge, Like being

794
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: an authentic leader, you know, lean into your insecurities. I

795
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 1: never turned that off about picking up some little tidbit

796
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: of information. As far as podcasts, I get most of

797
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 1: my new use by email feeds, so I tend to

798
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: do that more as a hobby so I do. I'm

799
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 1: very interested right now in longevity and health. So I

800
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 1: listened to something called the Cabral Concept by doctor Stephen Cabral,

801
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: which talks about all sorts of things. One of the

802
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: things I was looking into was an infrared sana and

803
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 1: a cold plunge. So my husband and I just recently

804
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 1: purchased both of those things.

805
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,760
Speaker 2: I have a buddy who is crazy into the cold

806
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 2: plunge and whatever that breathing technique is that you need

807
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:36,240
Speaker 2: to do, and I committed to doing a cold plunge

808
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 2: next summer, so we'll see how that goes. I'm in

809
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 2: the ocean every Memorial Day weekend. Wow, that's my cold

810
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 2: plunge because that's like, you know, sixty degrees, but what

811
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 2: these guys are talking about is high thirties, low forties,

812
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 2: really really cool.

813
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, ours is forty nine degrees and it's cold. It

814
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 1: takes about a minute and thirty seconds to numb up.

815
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 1: So that's an interesting podcast. Asked for me, I do

816
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 1: tune into this other podcast. It's called Your CEO Mentor.

817
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 1: It's by the author of no book Leadership, and this

818
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: individual's name's Martin Moore, and I totally skipped your conversation,

819
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 1: your question about the AMP program, which is an advanced

820
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 1: management program. It's an elite executive education program. But he

821
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 1: was a buddy of mine at the a MP and

822
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:26,919
Speaker 1: he wrote a book on leadership. He was the CEO

823
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: of a company and he wrote a book called No

824
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 1: Book Leadership, and I of course read it out of

825
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 1: courtesy because I don't normally get a lot, frankly out

826
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 1: of leadership books. It's very intuitive to me. But I

827
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: got quite a few nuggets of information from this book.

828
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: And he's just very entertaining and so I tuned into

829
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: his podcasts frequently and I get little tidbits like it's

830
00:46:49,960 --> 00:47:00,320
Speaker 1: about respect not popularity, it's about excellence not perfection, different

831
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 1: things like that. It's just interesting and he's Australian, so

832
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 1: he's really interesting to listen to.

833
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,279
Speaker 2: So you mentioned mentors, that's my next question. Who are

834
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 2: your mentors who helped guide your career.

835
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: I have one mentor. She was the lawyer that hired

836
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,840
Speaker 1: me for that job out of college. Her name is

837
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 1: Molly Muggler and she worked with me my entire career,

838
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 1: her entire career. She's now retired, so she hired me.

839
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: I then became general counsel, I moved to old mutual,

840
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: I brought her with me. And what was amazing about

841
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 1: her is she believed in me before I did. She

842
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 1: had such confidence and vision for me and my future,

843
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 1: and she kept referring to herself as my sticky asset

844
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 1: that she'd stay with me, but wasn't. What was inspiring

845
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 1: about her is she's so intelligent, and she's such an

846
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 1: accomplished lawyer. But at the same time she was militant

847
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 1: about balancing her personal life and her professional life. She

848
00:47:54,680 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: prioritized watercolor, painting and tennis equally with her job as

849
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:04,919
Speaker 1: a general counsel of a big firm. So to this day,

850
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,320
Speaker 1: I am still connected with her, and I'm still constantly

851
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 1: inspired by her.

852
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 2: That's interesting. Let's talk about books. What are some of

853
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:14,439
Speaker 2: your favorites. What are you reading right now?

854
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: My nightstand is a bit eclectic right now. So I

855
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 1: have again another book on longevity called out Living, which

856
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: has again to do with health and longevity. I have

857
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 1: the rain Barrel Effect, which is again about what you

858
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: put into your body and how it affects again your

859
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 1: health and longevity. But the real chakra on there is

860
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 1: I believe it's called the Modern Textbook of Astrology. During COVID,

861
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 1: I started thinking a lot about astrological charts and I

862
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 1: found them fascinating and they are tied a lot to

863
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: math and science, and they're very, very technical. And I

864
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 1: had my chart read and I said, you know, i'd

865
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 1: be interested in learning how to read charts. That doesn't

866
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 1: see that hard? He said, oh, trust me, it's hard.

867
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: He gave me the name of three books. He said,

868
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 1: start reading and then get back to me. I might

869
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 1: have to postpone that to retire because it is quite technical.

870
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 1: It's very math forward, but it's uh, it's still interesting

871
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: for fun. Recently, I've read The Lincoln Highway. I really liked.

872
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 1: I loved. I think it's called beneath a Scarlets guy.

873
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:27,800
Speaker 1: What I like to do? Back when I was a lawyer,

874
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 1: everybody would say, oh, have you read the most recent,

875
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: you know, fiction book on law, you know Tom Clancy

876
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:36,439
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. And I just don't want to read

877
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: things that I'm living. So I don't want to read

878
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: books on investing. I don't want to read books on

879
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 1: the law. I want to read books that transport me

880
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 1: to another place in time where I can just learn

881
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 1: about memoirs of a Geisha. Was you know interesting things

882
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 1: like that. Just get out of my own head and

883
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 1: think about something different. We do enough as a lawyer.

884
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,839
Speaker 1: Think about how much you have to read when you

885
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: When I read, I want to for fun or for

886
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: gaining knowledge of something different.

887
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:07,359
Speaker 2: Huh? Really interesting. Down to our final two questions, what

888
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 2: sort of advice would you give to a recent college

889
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 2: grad interested in a career in either investment, finance management

890
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 2: or law.

891
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 1: As we've been going through this podcast, I've realized the

892
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 1: benefit that my legal profession has had on my management abilities.

893
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:29,359
Speaker 1: I never quite tied those two things together so much.

894
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 1: The broad knowledge that you get from being a business

895
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 1: lawyer is quite extreme. So depending on what that person's

896
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: interest in interests are, I would say network, network, Network,

897
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 1: It's all about talking to people and understanding what they

898
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 1: do and understanding what's out there and really building relationships.

899
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 1: That's really what it's about. That's what it's about in business,

900
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 1: that's what it's about in dealing with clients, building relationships.

901
00:50:55,960 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 1: It's just what it is about life. But it's very

902
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 1: hard to make that decision. Again, I fell into my

903
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 1: career and I'm pretty fortunate that I've had a lot

904
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 1: of opportunities come my way. But I'm not somebody who

905
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 1: says you need a goal and you need to follow it,

906
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 1: because I think if you have blinders on for that

907
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 1: one goal, that you're going to miss all of these

908
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: other opportunities that can lead you in a direction that

909
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 1: might be much more fruitful for you.

910
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 2: Huh. Interesting. And our final question, what do you know

911
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 2: about the world of investing today you wish you knew

912
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 2: twenty five years or so ago when you were first

913
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 2: getting started.

914
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 1: Gosh, that one's more tricky for me. I feel like

915
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: I was pretty informed back then. But if I can

916
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 1: flip it on its head a little bit, maybe I'll

917
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 1: answer it as to what advice would I give to

918
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: those twenty somethings out there now, And I would say,

919
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 1: understand the benefits of compounding, make sure you invest early,

920
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 1: make sure you're diverse, and make sure you invest in

921
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 1: your four to one K plan, because as much as

922
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 1: it feels as though you can't afford that extra hundred

923
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 1: dollars or ten dollars or one thousand dollars, it's just

924
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,320
Speaker 1: so important to start investing early.

925
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, not to say the very least that decade twenties

926
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 2: to thirties makes a huge difference over forty years.

927
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 1: Hey Tiz for sure.

928
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 2: Linda, thank you for being so generous with your time.

929
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:26,920
Speaker 2: We have been speaking with Linda Gibson, CEO of Pigium

930
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 2: Quantitative Solutions. If you enjoy this conversation, well, be sure

931
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 2: and check out any of the previous five hundred or

932
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 2: so we've done over the past nine years. You can

933
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:42,399
Speaker 2: find those at iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you find your

934
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 2: favorite podcasts. Sign up for my daily reading list at

935
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 2: ridults dot com. Follow me on Twitter at rid Holt's

936
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 2: follow all of the Bloomberg Family of podcasts at podcast

937
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 2: I would be remiss if I did not thank the

938
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 2: correct team that helps put these conversations together each week.

939
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 2: Sarah Livesey is my audio engineer. Attika Valbron is my

940
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 2: project manager. Anna Luke is my producer. Sean Russo is

941
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 2: my researcher. I'm Barry Riddolts. You've been listening to Master's

942
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 2: Business on Bloomberg Radio.