Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind listener Mail.
Speaker 2: My name is Robert.
Speaker 3: Lamb and I am Joe McCormick, and today we are
Speaker 3: bringing you some messages from the Stuff to Blow your
Speaker 3: Mind email address. If you're a fan of the show
Speaker 3: and you have never gotten in touch before, you can
Speaker 3: do so at any time, for any reason at contact
Speaker 3: at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. We give
Speaker 3: the address out at the end of every episode, but
Speaker 3: we like to throw it at the top of listener
Speaker 3: mail episodes just to remind people that, yes, you can
Speaker 3: write about whatever you want. Most of the time we
Speaker 3: get messages with people trying to add something interesting, maybe
Speaker 3: from their own personal experience or from their own independent
Speaker 3: research about a topic we've talked about on the show.
Speaker 3: But really, whatever you want is fair game. Contact at
Speaker 3: stuff to Blow Yourmind dot com.
Speaker 2: That's right. If you have recommendations for the future, write
Speaker 2: in HI. If you just want to share a picture
Speaker 2: of your pet, that is also fair game, especially if
Speaker 2: we've covered that animal recently on the show, and also
Speaker 2: if you want to join the discord server. Sometimes we
Speaker 2: read some messages from the discord server in these episodes.
Speaker 2: Use that email address to get in touch with us,
Speaker 2: and we'll shoot you the link so that you can
Speaker 2: join us. And really those are the best ways to
Speaker 2: get in touch with us. We are on some of
Speaker 2: the socials, and if you message us through the socials,
Speaker 2: there's a chance that message will make it to us.
Speaker 2: But honestly, we don't tend those gardens as well as
Speaker 2: we once did, so the best way is always going
Speaker 2: to be that email address.
Speaker 3: That's right, Let's see Rob, you good if we kick
Speaker 3: things off with some messages about our series on Kartchner Caverns.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 3: Kartchner Caverns is a cave system in Arizona that Rob
Speaker 3: you visited earlier this year with your family, and then
Speaker 3: we did some episodes on it about its native bat
Speaker 3: populations and the discovery and conservation history of it. So
Speaker 3: that was an interesting topic and a lot of people
Speaker 3: had thoughts Cartchner Caverns. So I'm going to do this
Speaker 3: first message from Angela subject Caverns. Hey guys, longtime listener,
Speaker 3: love the show, Thanks for such interesting topics. Just finish
Speaker 3: listening to the first part of your Kartchner caverns episode, Man,
Speaker 3: did that bring back memories? For context? I don't like
Speaker 3: enclosed spaces. I really really don't like being stuck in
Speaker 3: the dark. But I'm also a let's go it might
Speaker 3: be fun kind of person I can identify. With that
Speaker 3: combination of personality traits anxious but also game, it makes
Speaker 3: for a lot of stressful situations. So Angela says we
Speaker 3: were visiting. We were in Kentucky visiting Angela and she
Speaker 3: doesn't say who. I guess friends or family. We were
Speaker 3: in Kentucky visiting. As we were driving, we noticed a
Speaker 3: sign for caverns. I made the joke that I'd rather
Speaker 3: go to a tavern.
Speaker 2: Okay to this story is starting off like a horror movie,
Speaker 2: but yeah, let's continue and see where it goes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, preferring taverns to caverns right. Regardless, my traveling companions
Speaker 3: really wanted to go, so I thought, sure, this will
Speaker 3: be interesting. As we waited for the tour to begin,
Speaker 3: I started putting my mind at ease, remembering that cute
Speaker 3: Atari spilunking game and trying to remember it's what I'm
Speaker 3: sure we're equally adorable sounds. I had to look this
Speaker 3: up because I've never played this game, but rob I
Speaker 3: dug up a video of some gameplay and I attached
Speaker 3: a screenshot in the outline you can look at here.
Speaker 3: So it's one of these games where you know the
Speaker 3: pixel quality is very it's you know, it looks like
Speaker 3: some scuzz on the screen. So you play as a
Speaker 3: little light blue wad of pixels exploring a cave and
Speaker 3: there are ladders you can climb, and it looks like
Speaker 3: ropes or vines or something you can swing from. The
Speaker 3: sounds are very cute, as Angela remembered. It makes that
Speaker 3: classic little Lodix bittoon sound when you pick up a
Speaker 3: power up. But also I thought this game was funny
Speaker 3: because it's not like a just biological cave entities. There
Speaker 3: are ghosts. There are ghosts that float towards you, and
Speaker 3: I think you can shoot the ghosts with a gun
Speaker 3: or with something. There's like a projectile you put out.
Speaker 3: Eventually it makes the ghosts disappear. But the other thing
Speaker 3: about it that was funny is it keeps looping. The
Speaker 3: first phrase of the mysterio so piscato. This is a
Speaker 3: classic piece of music you might recognize from like old
Speaker 3: silent movie or not silent movies, old movies. Whenever the
Speaker 3: villain appears done dune dund dun dun dun dun dun.
Speaker 2: Okay, and then that translates, I believe to mysterious pizza cat. Right,
Speaker 2: that's exactly what. Okay?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so anyway, this imagine, this that we've just described
Speaker 3: is what our claustrophobe Angela is running through her brain
Speaker 3: for comfort. But the next she says, we were helped
Speaker 3: into this little boat. Oh, interesting, a boat, sweet mother
Speaker 3: of God. As we started entering the cave, we were
Speaker 3: instructed to lower our heads since it had rained and
Speaker 3: the water level was high. If you're sitting down now,
Speaker 3: put your ear against your knee. That was my current situation.
Speaker 3: I could feel the rock ceiling against my puffy jacket.
Speaker 3: This must have been the longest twelve seconds of my life.
Speaker 3: We got off the boat and continued on foot. Man,
Speaker 3: this just keeps getting rougher and rougher, like tight space
Speaker 3: is but also water. Suffice to say the rest of
Speaker 3: the tour was a piece of cake. The darkness, the
Speaker 3: enclosed space is the creepy prehistoric atmosphere, the eerie silence.
Speaker 3: The bats were their bats. I don't even remember, but
Speaker 3: what do you know, I actually enjoyed it. From time
Speaker 3: to time I would get waves of why as I
Speaker 3: remembered I was underground, But altogether, I'm glad I got
Speaker 3: to experience it, and I particularly I remember the guide addressing
Speaker 3: not disturbing the ecosystem, which was an interesting reminder that
Speaker 3: as far as nature is concerned, we were not really
Speaker 3: meant to be there. We'll save episode two for another day,
Speaker 3: Smiley face. Thanks for the cool show, Angela. Now, Angela
Speaker 3: doesn't say exactly what this cave was or where it was,
Speaker 3: except that it was in the state of Kentucky. But
Speaker 3: based on her description, I did some googling and I
Speaker 3: feel pretty confident that the cave she's talking about was
Speaker 3: the is the Lost River Cave in Bowling Green, Kentucky.
Speaker 3: So this is a cave that actually does have boat tours.
Speaker 3: And I watched like a video somebody made of going
Speaker 3: through the tour of this cave, and it does begin
Speaker 3: like one of the first things is you get in
Speaker 3: a boat and you have to go under this low
Speaker 3: rock ceiling passage, and the guide at this part of
Speaker 3: the tour it says, you know, you're not allowed to
Speaker 3: touch the rocks and the rest of the cave. This
Speaker 3: is the one place where you can touch the ceiling
Speaker 3: because it's kind of unavoidable, So encourage people to just
Speaker 3: like put their hands up up and touch it. I
Speaker 3: guess the water was not as high in the video
Speaker 3: I was watching as when Angela described it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I never visited that particular Kentucky cave. I think
Speaker 2: I went to a different one when I was a kid,
Speaker 2: and I did once tour I think some old salt
Speaker 2: mines in Germany on like a high school trip where
Speaker 2: you had to get in a boat, but the ceiling
Speaker 2: was not that close. It was a little bit roomier,
Speaker 2: again being if memory serves, a mining operation as opposed
Speaker 2: to a naturally formed cavern.
Speaker 3: So there's a funny thing about the Lost River Cave
Speaker 3: if this is in fact the one that Angela is
Speaker 3: talking about, and I'm pretty sure it is, because in
Speaker 3: this case, it's funny that you say you would rather
Speaker 3: go to a tavern than a cavern. The Lost River
Speaker 3: Cave once literally was basically a tavern, not in the
Speaker 3: you know, not in the tavern in sense of like
Speaker 3: dungeons and dragons. Tavern but it was a place to drink,
Speaker 3: party and get down. So I was reading about this
Speaker 3: in a little history article by Teelia Butler for w NKY, Kentucky.
Speaker 3: According to local lore, during the Prohibition era, this cave
Speaker 3: was used for smuggling liquor, but by the nineteen thirties
Speaker 3: it had become one of the most famous night clubs
Speaker 3: in the country, called the Cavern Nightclub. The article calls
Speaker 3: it quote the coolest place to be both above and
Speaker 3: below ground. And there's a double meaning of coolest place
Speaker 3: there because Billboard magazine called it the only air conditioned
Speaker 3: nightclub in the United States. This is because of the
Speaker 3: natural temperature control offered by the cave. Cave air tends
Speaker 3: to be pretty stable and temperature year round, usually somewhere
Speaker 3: around the upper fifties fahrenheit. The article goes on to
Speaker 3: describe a bit of its history, saying, quote, it was
Speaker 3: Jimmy Stewart's publicity. Now that's not Jimmy Stewart, James. That's
Speaker 3: not the actor, not the guy from Vertigo in rear window.
Speaker 3: This is different a bowling green Jimmy Stewart. Quote. It
Speaker 3: was Jimmy Stewart's publicity. The Bowling Green, businessman who owned
Speaker 3: the club from nineteen thirty four to nineteen forty nine.
Speaker 3: That turned the club into a swinging place. Throughout the
Speaker 3: big band jazz era of the nineteen forties, many famous
Speaker 3: musicians and singers performed at the Cavern Nightclub. Big names
Speaker 3: like Dinah Shore and Francis Craig with his NBC Orchestra
Speaker 3: could be heard from the Cave's bandstand. In those days,
Speaker 3: club partygoers could purchase a deluxe ice bowl with whiskey
Speaker 3: hidden inside for just two dollars. Oh wow. As so,
Speaker 3: the article goes on to describe how eventually the club
Speaker 3: declined in popularity, in part, I think because they built
Speaker 3: a new highway system. That meant a lot of the
Speaker 3: traffic that used to go near it wasn't passing by
Speaker 3: as much anymore. So there was that also just changes
Speaker 3: in you like, musical taste. Jazz clubs weren't as popular
Speaker 3: by the nineteen sixties. So if you go there today,
Speaker 3: you can still see the bar and stage area, and
Speaker 3: I think it may sometimes to be used for events today,
Speaker 3: but but yeah, a lot of it's just this like
Speaker 3: cave nature boat tour sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Now, speaking of caves used for music up in Grundy County, Tennessee. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you've got the caverns, Joe. Have you ever been to
Speaker 2: a show there?
Speaker 3: I have, Yeah, I have.
Speaker 2: What was it like?
Speaker 3: I do not want to speak ill of the musician
Speaker 3: I saw there. It was actually it was. I could
Speaker 3: tell it was a great place to see a show.
Speaker 3: But the show I saw was not great. I actually
Speaker 3: fell asleep.
Speaker 2: Sometimes that's good. It depends what you're seeing, Like if
Speaker 2: you're seeing, you know, particularly ambient group, you know sometimes
Speaker 2: I mean not off a little bit, and that's fine.
Speaker 3: It wasn't ambient. It was like it was like a
Speaker 3: bluegrass show, and I forget it. I mean, I like
Speaker 3: bluegrass music, but it was just not my favorite artist.
Speaker 3: It was rather a somnolent experience experience. But yeah, but
Speaker 3: I would like to go back there someday to yeah,
Speaker 3: see something I'm more jazzed about.
Speaker 2: Jazz? Yeah, jazz, which would brand of jazz would be
Speaker 2: appropriate for a cavern environment?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I guess Dinah Shore is not playing anymore.
Speaker 2: All right, let's see what's next in the old mail bag.
Speaker 2: This one comes to us from Bill. Bill writes Robin Joe,
Speaker 2: thank you for entertaining and educating me for close to
Speaker 2: a decade. Now. I was so glad to hear you
Speaker 2: take on Cartooner Caverns a wonderful place. I visited it
Speaker 2: once many years ago and was just thinking about returning
Speaker 2: after recently checking out Carlsbad Caverns highly recommended, and feeling
Speaker 2: the draw back to my caving days. Lehman Caves in
Speaker 2: Great Basin National Park is also phenomenal, with unique formations
Speaker 2: called shields that are a bit of a mystery now.
Speaker 3: In Bill's email, he includes a link out to some
Speaker 3: National Park's page information about these shield formations in Lehman Caves. Rob,
Speaker 3: I've just got a picture for you to look at here.
Speaker 3: Are these are pretty interesting? You know what they look like?
Speaker 3: They look like gigantic oyster mushrooms.
Speaker 2: They do giant stone mushrooms. Yeah, all right. Well Bill
Speaker 2: continues here talking about the Lanmon Caves. Here, he says
Speaker 2: the area has both wild caves, minimal human trace and
Speaker 2: a great user friendly tour where their motto one hundred
Speaker 2: years ago was if you can break it, you can
Speaker 2: take it.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 2: No, obviously not great considering where a cave conservation has gone,
Speaker 2: but that certainly tracks with what happened with a lot
Speaker 2: of these early show caves. He continues, as for Joe's
Speaker 2: request of inside the mind of a cave or Yes,
Speaker 2: exploring a new canyon or cave where humans may never
Speaker 2: have been is quite the attraction. In both caving and canyoneering,
Speaker 2: I have had moments where I needed to do the
Speaker 2: exhale trick that Robert mentioned in order to continue through
Speaker 2: tight spots. As you both stated, please everyone be careful
Speaker 2: out there. As I often say in guiding, one must
Speaker 2: have three levels of trust in these sorts of adventures.
Speaker 2: Trust in yourself and your abilities, trust in your partners,
Speaker 2: and trust in your gear. I like to think of
Speaker 2: slot canyoneering as caving with a sun roof, a great
Speaker 2: way to explore the skinnies without the full commitment of spelunking.
Speaker 2: If you ever wish to experience anything involving via Ferrata canyoneering,
Speaker 2: or various levels of adventure in the Desert's southwest, hit
Speaker 2: me up Bill.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you.
Speaker 2: Bill.
Speaker 3: By the way, I just wanted to add one more
Speaker 3: note about the shield cave formations that Bill was talking about.
Speaker 3: In that is the Lehman Caves in Great Basin National Park.
Speaker 3: So the page that Bill linked to is a National
Speaker 3: Park's information page and it's got a big picture of
Speaker 3: the one that's called the parachute formation in Lemon Caves.
Speaker 3: And much like some of the formations we were talking
Speaker 3: about in the Carshenter Caverns episode, apparently the exactly how
Speaker 3: the shield formations come together is not fully understood. I
Speaker 3: think there are some leading ideas, but it's not fully settled.
Speaker 3: And the page says, quote, although cave shield formation is
Speaker 3: still puzzling, it's hypothesized that cave shields form as extensions
Speaker 3: of joints or cracks in the floor, wall and ceiling.
Speaker 3: So the idea is that you've got hydrostatic pressure acting
Speaker 3: on the calcium or calcite rich water that is inside
Speaker 3: the stone that surrounds the cave, and then the water
Speaker 3: kind of bleeds out at these joints or these cracks
Speaker 3: in the walls and floor, and then of course the
Speaker 3: same process that we talked about in those episodes happens.
Speaker 3: You know, it loses carbon dioxide and precipitite precipitates calcite.
Speaker 2: Fascinating. And again, you know, as we discussed in that episode.
Speaker 2: I think it's just so amazing that we have these
Speaker 2: cave environments and these amazing formations and mysteries remain regarding
Speaker 2: how these things have formed. You know, we think it's
Speaker 2: easy to make the mistake of thinking, well, it's literally
Speaker 2: set in stone, it's you know, it's it's there. We
Speaker 2: can figure it out. But we're not completely sure on
Speaker 2: some of these things. And again, especially it's especially exciting
Speaker 2: with these living caves where the rock is still forming
Speaker 2: and reforming, breaking, repairing itself and so forth. It's almost
Speaker 2: like a living thing.
Speaker 3: All Right, are you cool if I do this message
Speaker 3: from Chris?
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's have it.
Speaker 3: Subject line this is the way in This email begins
Speaker 3: with an epigraph, classy nice quote. Presently they were under
Speaker 3: the shadow, and here in the midst of it they
Speaker 3: saw the opening of a cave. This is the way in,
Speaker 3: said Gollum softly. I think this is from when galam
Speaker 3: is leading Sam and Frodo into she Loob's Layer. And
Speaker 3: which book is that? Is that? A Two Towers or
Speaker 3: Return of the King.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm always a little shaky on this because and
Speaker 2: then I also can't remember how this shuffle thing around
Speaker 2: in the film versions.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they put if I'm remembering correctly, this
Speaker 3: might happen in the book The Two Towers, but they
Speaker 3: put it in the movie Return of the King.
Speaker 2: M okay, yeah that would make sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Tolkien fans correct me if I'm wrong, and I
Speaker 3: know you will anyway. This message goes on. Good day, Robert,
Speaker 3: Joe and JJ writing today in response to your excellent
Speaker 3: episodes on Carchner Caverns Listen slash watched with my kids
Speaker 3: on Netflix. Side note, they are very happy to put
Speaker 3: a face with the voice after all the time listening
Speaker 3: with me. They would like you to know that you
Speaker 3: both look way different than they thought crying laughing emoji. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean I would be surprised at this point if
Speaker 2: anyone were to say you look exactly as we imagined.
Speaker 3: As a family. We have visited caves together before in
Speaker 3: Kentucky at Mammoth Cave where we saw Helick Tights and
Speaker 3: Cave Popcorn, and Missouri at Mirramac Caves and Onondoga Cave.
Speaker 3: While all are unique in their own way. Your discussion
Speaker 3: about how the two sorry the Two Cavers weighed their
Speaker 3: options for Cartchner Caverns really struck me as interesting in
Speaker 3: regards to the two Missouri caves I mentioned. On one hand,
Speaker 3: you have Merrimac Caves, which, if not the most has
Speaker 3: to be up there as the most commercialized cave in
Speaker 3: the world as if as if you have driven anywhere
Speaker 3: in the Midwest, you may have seen billboards for it
Speaker 3: noting its location right off Route sixty six. On the
Speaker 3: other hand, you have the Onondoga Cave, which has a
Speaker 3: long history of land disputes and ownership changes, but has
Speaker 3: been managed as a Missouri State park since nineteen eighty two.
Speaker 3: For my money, I prefer Onondoga and highly recommend a
Speaker 3: visit if able. It has some wonderful and unique features,
Speaker 3: such as the lily pad room sands frogs. Though, thanks
Speaker 3: as always for your episodes Chris and then Rob for
Speaker 3: you to look at in the outline pulled in some
Speaker 3: pictures of the lily pad room on Endoga Cave. That
Speaker 3: is beautiful, quite beautiful. So it has a you know,
Speaker 3: I don't know what you call this in a cave,
Speaker 3: like a lake or a pond inside the cave and
Speaker 3: looks like some standing water. And then there are these
Speaker 3: formations that rise just above the surface of the water.
Speaker 3: And I don't know exactly what you call those are
Speaker 3: how they're formed, but yeah, they look kind of like
Speaker 3: lily pads floating on the surface.
Speaker 2: Very cool. Yeah, all right, well, I appreciate that field
Speaker 2: report and the epigraph. Yeah, very classy. All right, Let's
Speaker 2: see what else do we have in here in the
Speaker 2: old male bag. Let's see, all right, This next one
Speaker 2: comes to us from Sheldene, subject line cave conservation. She writes, Hey, guys,
Speaker 2: I hope you're well. I don't know if that's responding
Speaker 2: to anything in.
Speaker 3: Particular is a question mark.
Speaker 2: Anyway, As she continues, I wanted to tell you about
Speaker 2: my admittedly limited experience with cave conservation in South Africa.
Speaker 2: Probably the most famous tourist caves in South Africa are
Speaker 2: the Congo Caves in Oatshorn. I think every school kid
Speaker 2: I know, including my own, do a school tour to
Speaker 2: Oatshorn to see the crocodiles, ostriches and Kingo caves. When
Speaker 2: I went, it must have been in nineteen eighty seven,
Speaker 2: because I was eleven or twelve. Back then, there was
Speaker 2: a lot more stage dressing in the caves. In the
Speaker 2: big cave you enter into first there's a huge formation
Speaker 2: called the organ pipes, and when I was a kid,
Speaker 2: they turned off all the lights in the cave and
Speaker 2: lit up the formation with colored lights and played loud,
Speaker 2: dramatic organ music. The whole cavern floor had been filled
Speaker 2: in with clay to make it flat, and they used
Speaker 2: to hold concerts in there. I remember seeing hundreds of
Speaker 2: fold up chairs in one area.
Speaker 3: What would be your favorite organ song to hear in
Speaker 3: a cave?
Speaker 2: Ro ooh, well, I mean, I guess I would have
Speaker 2: to say a phanom of the opera music, or I
Speaker 2: was thinking back to Doctor Five's. I had to look
Speaker 2: it up, but Mendelssohn seemed to be a favorite of
Speaker 2: the abominable Doctor Five, so I might put in a
Speaker 2: request for that.
Speaker 3: I could go for a little cave treatment of In
Speaker 3: the Garden of Eden by Iron Butterfly.
Speaker 2: There you go. That's a good one, all right, as
Speaker 2: she continues as an aside for Joe. As part of
Speaker 2: this little show, they have a tiny oil nap now
Speaker 2: electric to give people an idea of how little light
Speaker 2: that first explorer of the cave had available. It was
Speaker 2: barely anything in the dark. Going back to that experience
Speaker 2: in the eighties, I recall the air being moist but
Speaker 2: not uncomfortable, and that the walls and formations glittered fast.
Speaker 2: Farward to nineteen ninety nine, my husband and I went
Speaker 2: back while on honeymoon, and I was intrigued at how
Speaker 2: the tour had taken on a more ecological bent and
Speaker 2: the changes to the caves. They had removed all the
Speaker 2: unnecessary lights and even pointed out a spot where where
Speaker 2: black algae had infested a section of the cave wall.
Speaker 2: This sort of thing. I think we talked about this
Speaker 2: in our episodes, like this is where human contact can
Speaker 2: cause this to grow, or certainly naturally occur in contact
Speaker 2: via bats. They explained that the lights encourage the growth
Speaker 2: of the algae, so much like Rob described, the lights
Speaker 2: switch off. The light switch off automatically to limit this.
Speaker 2: They also explained how hard it is to remove or
Speaker 2: kill the algae without damaging the cave. We went back
Speaker 2: again in twenty fifteen, this time with our kids, and
Speaker 2: what struck me was the humidity and the dullness of
Speaker 2: the caves. There's no more glitter on the walls and formations.
Speaker 2: They do seem to have managed to control the algae,
Speaker 2: but I think the damage of thousands of humans is
Speaker 2: visible in the overwhelming brownness of the caves. Now, there
Speaker 2: are two other cave systems, imaginatively named can Go two
Speaker 2: and three, which are off limits to the public. The
Speaker 2: photos I've seen of them, taken in the seventies are beautiful.
Speaker 2: The formations are white. Of note is that the Kango
Speaker 2: caves are still living as well. The formations are still
Speaker 2: growing despite the tourism and human damage. I could ramble
Speaker 2: on for ages, but this email is already quite long.
Speaker 2: Love you guys, my longtime ear friends. Keep up the
Speaker 2: great work. Best witches.
Speaker 3: Sheldy, Thank you, Sheldy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for writing in. I love hearing about these
Speaker 2: different caves around the world. They are different, you know. Obviously,
Speaker 2: they're naturally occurring cave systems everywhere you go. And there
Speaker 2: are a number of cave systems that are show caves
Speaker 2: to some degree and are open to the public. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I really have enjoyed hearing from listeners about this.
Speaker 3: Okay, this next message is from David. David says, Hi,
Speaker 3: Robert and Joe just listen to the first episode about
Speaker 3: the card Schner Caverns and wanted to share my favorite
Speaker 3: cave experience. I'm a French horn player, a player of
Speaker 3: the French horn, not a French horn player, player of
Speaker 3: the French horn, and attend as many workshops as I
Speaker 3: can to stay in touch with other horn players, experience
Speaker 3: performances of new music for horn and of course for horn,
Speaker 3: out for the horn, new music for horn, and of
Speaker 3: course play with all of the new equipment for hornists
Speaker 3: brought by exhibitors. I've never heard hornists before.
Speaker 2: I like them. We know, David, I'm something of a
Speaker 2: French horn player myself, or I used to be. Really,
Speaker 2: I was a bad French horn player in high school,
Speaker 2: but I have you know, I have had my hand
Speaker 2: in a number of French horns.
Speaker 3: Yes, I was a bad trumpet player in middle school.
Speaker 2: I was also a bad trumpet. Yeah. I think I
Speaker 2: probably did not have the determination, But I also don't
Speaker 2: think I had the lips for these instruments. Looking back on.
Speaker 3: It, I'm gonna reflect on my own experiences and say,
Speaker 3: I think a big problem was I did not practice enough,
Speaker 3: because it was not very enjoyable to practice a trumpet
Speaker 3: by myself alone at home, and I got the feeling
Speaker 3: that other members of the house did not like that either.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, that's always one of the challenges with a
Speaker 2: musical instrument in the house, for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Anyway, the message goes on to say, these are
Speaker 3: usually oh okay, the experiences, the horn related experiences. These
Speaker 3: are usually regional affairs. But in twenty twenty five, the
Speaker 3: International Horn Symposium was hosted by James Madison University in
Speaker 3: the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. With it being so close
Speaker 3: to my home in North Carolina, I had to attend.
Speaker 3: One of the add on opportunities for symposium attendees was
Speaker 3: a tour of the nearby Louay Caverns. This cave system
Speaker 3: is known for the Great Stalac Pipe organ, a lithophone
Speaker 3: that produces sound when beaters strikes stalactites and stalagmites of
Speaker 3: different sizes. We were lucky enough to add some additional
Speaker 3: music to the space. The group of right around fifty
Speaker 3: of us horn players brought I wish this email would
Speaker 3: continue with horn the holy I'm going to say hornists.
Speaker 3: Fifty of us hornists brought our horns on the tour.
Speaker 3: When we reached the cathedral room where the organ keyboard
Speaker 3: is located, we stopped and performed two pieces. One was
Speaker 3: written to be premiered on that day in that space,
Speaker 3: with the specific intention of using the cave itself as
Speaker 3: a musical tool, incorporating the reverberation of the space. The
Speaker 3: second was a beautiful arrangement that combined the tune Shenandoah
Speaker 3: with the with the simple Gifts melody from Copeland's Appalachian Spring.
Speaker 3: Both were fitting for the event and location. Fifty horn
Speaker 3: players make an incredible sound, and that was multiplied by
Speaker 3: the novelty of playing in such a beautiful and unique space,
Speaker 3: and of course by the way the space affected the sound.
Speaker 3: With the event being open to every one of all
Speaker 3: backgrounds and skill levels, and with us playing after a
Speaker 3: few hours of driving and walking without a warm up,
Speaker 3: the performance wasn't spotless, but I'm pretty sure no one
Speaker 3: there cared. The pick up nature of a world premiere
Speaker 3: by a group of people who had never played together
Speaker 3: until a couple of days beforehand, After just two or
Speaker 3: three short rehearsals with our music taped to each other's
Speaker 3: backs since we couldn't bring music stands into the caverns,
Speaker 3: seemed just right. And then David includes a link to
Speaker 3: a YouTube video of the performance with some notes about
Speaker 3: I don't know some self review, I guess. Then David says,
Speaker 3: thanks for what you do. I've listened to every episode
Speaker 3: since sometime in twenty eighteen, and I love getting to
Speaker 3: nerd out and explore wild topics along with you. Then
Speaker 3: there's a PS. David says, sorry for the additional email,
Speaker 3: but recounting this experience made me recall the episode of
Speaker 3: yours that comes to mind most often when performing with ensembles,
Speaker 3: usually either very large ensembles due to sheer scope and size,
Speaker 3: or small chamber ensembles in which all of the musicians
Speaker 3: are very comfortable playing with and following one another. Your
Speaker 3: episode on Commmuda often comes to mind. The more I
Speaker 3: remember that bit of podcasting, the better I know a
Speaker 3: rehearsal or show has gone. Oh that's sweet to hear. Yeah,
Speaker 3: kama Muda being a name that some people coined to
Speaker 3: describe a unique kind of togetherness emotion.
Speaker 2: Was this possibly the here comes the Warm Feels episode
Speaker 2: from twenty twenty?
Speaker 3: Could be that? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that might be the one. It's in
Speaker 2: the archives, so if anyone wants to look that one up,
Speaker 2: just go to wherever you get your audio podcasts and
Speaker 2: you can dig it out of the earth there.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh, and I didn't mention this, but David I
Speaker 3: did click through. I watched some of the video with
Speaker 3: the music, and it did sound really lovely. I liked
Speaker 3: the original composition in the first half with the kind
Speaker 3: of like a mounting overlapping sounding of the different horns,
Speaker 3: and I thought it was very beautiful. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Interesting. Yeah. Horn music is not the first thing that
Speaker 2: I would think about concerning music in the caves. I
Speaker 2: don't know. I guess I would want it. Just seems
Speaker 2: like I would want something very minimal because I just
Speaker 2: imagine things is getting very loud, very quickly in such
Speaker 2: an enclosed space. But maybe part of this is just
Speaker 2: my imagination.
Speaker 3: I hear drums, drums and the TV. Yeah, okay, Rob,
Speaker 3: you want to do some responses to our series on
Speaker 3: the Suarro Cactus.
Speaker 2: Sure? Yeah. This one comes to us from Alex's title
Speaker 2: Suarro song. Hey dudes, first time, long time. Just started
Speaker 2: listening to the episode on the Suaro Cactus, and I thought,
Speaker 2: for sure you guys would mention the song Ain't No
Speaker 2: Soarro in Texas by the inimitable Reverend Horton Heat. When
Speaker 2: I heard Joe start to introduce a song that mentions
Speaker 2: the cactus. I thought for sure that was what was coming.
Speaker 2: The song is an alarmingly app counterpoint to You Guys's
Speaker 2: episode discussing the actual habitat of the species and it's
Speaker 2: hyperbolic association with all arid landscapes. The song is also
Speaker 2: a complete bop and is indispensable if you're going to
Speaker 2: be drinking cold beers on a hot day, and I
Speaker 2: hope it would serve to acquaint the show with the
Speaker 2: Honorable Reverend Horton Heat as a bestion of science and
Speaker 2: culture in America. Huge fan love Weird House. You guys
Speaker 2: are the best.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Alex. I was not familiar with this song.
Speaker 3: I looked it up.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 3: It's a bop. I like it. Yeah. So the main
Speaker 3: theme of the song is about how in all the movies,
Speaker 3: like there's a line that says Hollywood and misinformed artists
Speaker 3: made the swarro a Texas icon, but the souaro only
Speaker 3: grows in Arizona, where people got them out on their lawn.
Speaker 3: I don't know. It sounds more artful actually when he
Speaker 3: sings it than when I just phrased it there. But
Speaker 3: the chorus of the song goes, there ain't no souarro
Speaker 3: in Texas. It's not the kind of cactus we got,
Speaker 3: But somehow we're stuck with this image and changing it
Speaker 3: is going to take a lot. Folks in Mexico and
Speaker 3: Arizona are probably glad that I've cleared the air. There
Speaker 3: ain't no soarro in Texas, but we've sure got a
Speaker 3: lot of prickly pair.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know that I had heard this song before.
Speaker 2: I occasionally will hear the revent horton heat and like,
Speaker 2: if I'm listening to like a radio station of psychobilly,
Speaker 2: you know it's They're kind of a mainstay of psychobilly.
Speaker 2: I'm to understand, but I don't. But largely I don't
Speaker 2: really know myself around the genre. I just have sometimes
Speaker 2: put it on in the background.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay. This next message is from Tyler. Tyler says,
Speaker 3: hey you pals, I'm just starting the first episode on
Speaker 3: the Souarro, and Joe mentions he thought they looked like
Speaker 3: an antenna. Well, depending on where you are, the souarro
Speaker 3: you are looking at might be an antenna. A lot
Speaker 3: of cell phone towers in southern Arizona are made to
Speaker 3: look like souarrows. This would be hilarious if they put
Speaker 3: souarrow cell phone towers in Texas. Yeah, just keep keep
Speaker 3: the insult going, presumably to disguise an iesore. But most
Speaker 3: of the towers aren't fooling anyone and are more of
Speaker 3: a distraction than an actual tower would be.
Speaker 2: I can absolutely back those up from my time spent
Speaker 2: in Arizona. But then the rest of my time spent
Speaker 2: in Georgia. You know, we of course have the big
Speaker 2: fake cell towers that are disguised as trees as well,
Speaker 2: but are not fooling anyone. So this just seems to
Speaker 2: be a standard tactic. I don't know what they what
Speaker 2: else they disguise them as in other parts of the world.
Speaker 3: They should just go whole hal Actually, not just Texas,
Speaker 3: they should do suarrow cell towers nationwide. Why not towers
Speaker 3: in Vermont? There you go.
Speaker 2: Nobody's believing it anyway. Just make it look like some
Speaker 2: sort of a crazy roadside attraction.
Speaker 3: The email goes on, also regarding the story about the
Speaker 3: guy that was crushed by a soarrow. This is the
Speaker 3: guy who was crushed by a soarro after shooting it.
Speaker 3: He shot it with a shotgun and then it fell
Speaker 3: on him and killed him. This was in the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 3: Tyler says. The irony of the story is that he
Speaker 3: set out to destroy a protected species that ultimately was
Speaker 3: his undoing. It is illegal to remove or damage a soorrow,
Speaker 3: even on your own property. You need a permit, and
Speaker 3: most of the time they will try to relocate it
Speaker 3: rather than cut it down. This process can be costly
Speaker 3: and dangerous. As noted in the story, soorro sections are
Speaker 3: very heavy and prone to breaking off. If you haven't
Speaker 3: come across crested soarrows in your research, I suggest looking
Speaker 3: them up. They're pretty neat. I think the prevailing theory
Speaker 3: for why they happen is due to frost damage. Well, Tyler,
Speaker 3: as you probably know now, in the later parts of
Speaker 3: that series, we did get into crested souarros, so I
Speaker 3: hope you enjoyed that segment. But finally, Tyler says, thanks
Speaker 3: for all the years of edge youtainment. Ooh, what an accusation, Tyler.
Speaker 3: And then there's a ps hay pals again. Forgot to
Speaker 3: mention I am born and raised in Tucson. Many of
Speaker 3: the old Westerns you referenced the Westerns that wherever they
Speaker 3: are set in the American West, they have souarros in them.
Speaker 3: Tyler says many of them were filmed just to the
Speaker 3: west in a little studio that is now a theme
Speaker 3: part called Old Tucson Studios. If you had any questions
Speaker 3: about souarros or the Sonoran Desert Desert area, I'd be
Speaker 3: happy to answer them to the best of my ability. Tyler,
Speaker 3: Thank you, Tyler.
Speaker 2: Awesome. As always, we appreciate the field reports. Very good,
Speaker 2: very good. All right, here's another one. This one comes
Speaker 2: to us from Chris. Subject line malic acid. Chris says,
Speaker 2: I've never heard of malic acid before, but I listened
Speaker 2: to Suaro Part two and saw this TikTok on the
Speaker 2: same day. It is not my content, and I'm not
Speaker 2: expecting you to share anything on the show, but I
Speaker 2: found this an interesting extra note on the malic acid
Speaker 2: powder you mentioned in the episode. It's probably much more
Speaker 2: widely used than any of us know or expected. Love
Speaker 2: the show and you guys, and looking forward to many more, Chris. So.
Speaker 3: Chris includes a link to a video along with the email,
Speaker 3: and yeah, this is picking up on in our discussion
Speaker 3: about crasulation. Acid metabolism in the souaro cactus. That it
Speaker 3: involves the use of this compound called malic acid. That
Speaker 3: we were talking about its use in plant metabolism, but
Speaker 3: then also talking about how it's actually a very familiar
Speaker 3: flavor to most listeners, that it's part of what gives
Speaker 3: the distinctive flavor of tartness in apples. I think the
Speaker 3: name of malic acid comes from like apple acid, but
Speaker 3: it's in tons of different plants. A lot of sour
Speaker 3: flavors and fruits you recognize are going to be a
Speaker 3: form of malic acid, but there are other acid compounds
Speaker 3: and fruits as well. You've got citric acid and citric
Speaker 3: citrus fruits and so on. But we also talk in
Speaker 3: a funny twist about how some salt and vinegar potato
Speaker 3: chips he used malic acid powder as one of the
Speaker 3: tart components, which is funny because you would think they
Speaker 3: would use a vinegar flavor, but actually it's a different acid. Anyway,
Speaker 3: in this video, it is a it's a TikTok video
Speaker 3: of a candy maker account called at Jeff's Candy Shop,
Speaker 3: and so this guy in the video says he's trying
Speaker 3: to make a hard candy similar to and I don't
Speaker 3: know if I think maybe it's a now discontinued candy
Speaker 3: called Altoid's Orange Sours. You ever have these?
Speaker 2: Rub I don't know that I did that I did,
Speaker 2: But certainly, when it comes to hard candies, the orange
Speaker 2: flavored ones have always been my preference, even if I'm
Speaker 2: even if I'm just going this flavor in general, if
Speaker 2: I'm going for like a tongs, I'm going to go
Speaker 2: for the orange ones first.
Speaker 3: I like orange tew.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, even if it just tastes like chalk, if
Speaker 2: it's orange shok.
Speaker 3: Orange gatorade. So anyway, in this video, the guy boils
Speaker 3: the sugar syrup and he pours it out on a table.
Speaker 3: It starts to cool and thicken up, and as it's
Speaker 3: doing that, he folds in first citric acid powder for
Speaker 3: one sour element, and then he keeps folding it to
Speaker 3: mix it all around inside the candy. Then he stretches
Speaker 3: it out on a candy hook to incorporate air, then
Speaker 3: runs it through a crank press to stamp it out
Speaker 3: into these little ball shapes that are going to be
Speaker 3: the final shape. And then once all of the little
Speaker 3: pellet sized candies are cool. The final thing he does
Speaker 3: is he tosses them inside a container with powdered malic acid.
Speaker 3: So that's the sour white powder on the outside. So
Speaker 3: interesting that this sour candy has two different sour flavor elements.
Speaker 3: It's got citric acid mixed in with the sugar syrup,
Speaker 3: and then it's got malic acid dusted on the outside.
Speaker 2: Fascinating. You know, I had to do a quick search
Speaker 2: because I don't make as many tiki drinks as I
Speaker 2: used to, but I was looking around online. I know
Speaker 2: that there's some online recipes that call for malic acid.
Speaker 2: But I also looked in my Beech bumb Berry app
Speaker 2: which has all the classic recipes, and I did do
Speaker 2: just a quick search here for malik and nothing came up.
Speaker 2: So I presume this is more of a relatively modern
Speaker 2: use of an ingredient antique recipes.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think powdered malic acid is going
Speaker 3: to be a standard thing in many cooks or mixologist pantries.
Speaker 3: You know, that's like more of a either an industrial
Speaker 3: ingredient or maybe for your advanced home molecular gastronomist or so.
Speaker 2: That must be a yeah, like gastronomy obbyist and so forth.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean not like there's anything all that crazy
Speaker 3: about it. It just doesn't seem like a commonly used
Speaker 3: ingredient in the home, more so at the industrials.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had never run across it in a recipe before,
Speaker 2: and I'm always running across things in recipes. Then I go, well,
Speaker 2: I don't have that what's the substitute for that? But
Speaker 2: I've never run across that one.
Speaker 3: I mean it's kind of like how you know, sodium
Speaker 3: citrate is something that's going to be in tons of
Speaker 3: industry really produced foods, but is not going to be
Speaker 3: in many people's home pantries, right right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: All right, let's see we have some more soaro action here,
Speaker 2: and the subject line here is teenage mutant Ninja Cactus.
Speaker 3: Oh just to note that this message is from a
Speaker 3: listener who gave both a real name, but then also
Speaker 3: mentioned an alias, and I wasn't sure which one they
Speaker 3: wanted us to use for the email, So we're just
Speaker 3: going to say anonymous listener for now.
Speaker 2: Right right. We don't want to blow your cover, but
Speaker 2: one way or the other. So, yeah, this includes an
Speaker 2: image of the thing we're talking about here. The author rights,
Speaker 2: Hello again, gentlemen. Just wanted to share a comic drawn
Speaker 2: in part by my middle school art teacher circa ninety two.
Speaker 2: Fun stuff. I haven't chimed in for a while. Twenty
Speaker 2: twenty five was a tough year. Among other things, I
Speaker 2: lost my dog, I Kabad. I wrote you once about
Speaker 2: the connection between his name and the arc the Covenant.
Speaker 2: But I remain a loyal listener, and I want you
Speaker 2: to know how much I appreciate you being a part
Speaker 2: of my life through thick and thin. And after this,
Speaker 2: he includes a personal message about his intent to hide
Speaker 2: the Appellation trail, So good luck with that. But yes,
Speaker 2: this is a comic book, and it is titled Sowarrow
Speaker 2: So Warrior.
Speaker 3: It is a Sowaro textured hero. It looks like Iceman
Speaker 3: from the X Men. Is Iceman what he's called?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, there's Iceman.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Iceman. It looks kind of like Iceman from the
Speaker 3: X Men, except he's like green and covered in spines.
Speaker 2: Yeah he looks Yeah, he also kind of looks he
Speaker 2: looks like a number of different comic book characters. Whatever,
Speaker 2: you're sort of like naked bald guy comic book character
Speaker 2: is you know, be a Vision or any of these
Speaker 2: sorts of characters. It's this except he's all cactus. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: pretty cool. Reminds me of some of the some of
Speaker 2: the different comic books that I'll see and for sale
Speaker 2: in like little museums through the Southwest, and a lot
Speaker 2: of times these are written by indigenous comic book artists,
Speaker 2: and there's always some sort of the unique, local and
Speaker 2: or traditional spin on comic book motifs, which I think
Speaker 2: is really cool.
Speaker 3: Okay, next message comes from Mike. This is another follow
Speaker 3: up on our long running Raven Riding Desk conundrum. So
Speaker 3: Mike says, was listening to the newest Listener mail this morning,
Speaker 3: then catching up on my comics later in the day
Speaker 3: and came across this random panel in a recent issue
Speaker 3: of Batman slash Superman colon World's Finest Issue forty eight.
Speaker 3: And then in the panel it is a hero. I
Speaker 3: actually don't know who this is, Rob, You're gonna have.
Speaker 2: Might be owl Man. Without actually looking up the issue
Speaker 2: in question, I get an Owlman vibe off of this design.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, don't know who it is, but the hero
Speaker 3: in a mask says, this idiot thought it'd be wise
Speaker 3: to taunt me quote why is a raven like a
Speaker 3: writing desk? And then Mike says the issue does not
Speaker 3: offer any answers for it either, lol.
Speaker 2: Like, well, yeah, as we discussed, it is, for the
Speaker 2: most part in a riddle without answer, by the way,
Speaker 2: and Mike, I appreciate sitting this in. This is great.
Speaker 2: But I'd mentioned in the previous episodes that I recalled
Speaker 2: this particular riddle from the nineteen eighty two animated film
Speaker 2: The Last Unicorn, But then later on I expressed doubt
Speaker 2: as to whether I actually heard it in that movie,
Speaker 2: and maybe it was just misremembering it given the Lewis
Speaker 2: Carroll roots of the thing. But I looked it up
Speaker 2: and I can confirm that, yes, this riddle is referenced
Speaker 2: without answer in The Last Unicorn.
Speaker 3: Nice and remember the previous listener who wrote in and
Speaker 3: included the list of answers people had come up with
Speaker 3: for it, even though it's not supposed to have an answer.
Speaker 3: I think the clean the tidiest one was because.
Speaker 2: Poe wrote on both Yes, that was pretty good.
Speaker 3: Let's see now, oh Rob, But we have next up.
Speaker 3: If you're feeling brave, we have a Pokemon intensive message.
Speaker 3: Do you have the fortitude for this intense dive into
Speaker 3: Pokemon lore?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I guess, so let's do it. See what we got?
Speaker 3: This is from Jeff take it? Take it?
Speaker 2: Oh? Okay, all right, you want me to read it either? What?
Speaker 3: Either way?
Speaker 2: I could No, I'm happy to here we go this one. Yeah,
Speaker 2: this one is titled Monsters for Your Pocket. Okay, Hey guys,
Speaker 2: I accumulated some Pokemon related thoughts after listening to recent
Speaker 2: IS shows. I agree with Rob that Pokemon Concierge on
Speaker 2: Netflix is great. It doesn't have the depth of a
Speaker 2: Kiki's Delivery Service. Of course, is the excellent Nyazaki film.
Speaker 2: And you said your kiddo's a big fan of that one, now.
Speaker 3: Right, My daughter's favorite movies. She's seen it a bazillion
Speaker 3: times now and she was kekey for Halloween.
Speaker 2: Ah. Well, if you want to introduce some Pokemon, this
Speaker 2: might be the way to go. It is inevitable, one
Speaker 2: would assume. Well, anyway, so just says it's no Kiky
Speaker 2: Delivery service quote, but it does have a little ghibli flavor,
Speaker 2: including the appreciation of nature and the joy of flight.
Speaker 2: I would argue that it's the best Pokemon media ever created,
Speaker 2: But then I was always more excited about the world's
Speaker 2: ecology and biology, not so much the fighting. I prefer
Speaker 2: the tangential world building. Weird stuff like the Detective Pikachu movie.
Speaker 2: I totally agree there again, we may watch that one
Speaker 2: on Weird House eventually. I really enjoyed that one. Concierg
Speaker 2: is aggressively pleasant and easily digestible, A very short series
Speaker 2: of very short episodes that just makes you feel good.
Speaker 3: Now I'm sorry. I think we're probably going to be
Speaker 3: recreating an exchange that already happened in earlier episodes, but
Speaker 3: I don't remember the answer. Is Pokemon Concierge about an
Speaker 3: actual concierge at a hotel.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, where Pokemon creatures come for vacations, and it's
Speaker 2: her job to make sure they're they're you know, they're
Speaker 2: they're well looked after, and I think that they don't
Speaker 2: get in fights and stuff. So it's extremely comfy and
Speaker 2: and and if memory serves, it's also kind of I
Speaker 2: don't know if it's authentic stop motion, but at least
Speaker 2: has that style, so it's it's kind of a rub
Speaker 2: the fur situation where you literally want to rub the
Speaker 2: fur of the creatures beautiful. Okay, So Jeff continues with
Speaker 2: more just Pokemon thoughts here. Pokemon's Snap was a really
Speaker 2: fun game in which the point was to take pictures
Speaker 2: of Pokemon in nature. It really gave me the feeling
Speaker 2: of what it might be like to go on vacation
Speaker 2: in their universe. Photos were scored on framing composition, whether
Speaker 2: you captured interesting behavior, rare species, et cetera. No battles.
Speaker 2: This was the height of Pokemon fever. So they even
Speaker 2: had kiosks in the real world where you could bring
Speaker 2: favorite photos from your game and print color stickers and such.
Speaker 3: Whoa was this was? This available for the Nintendo sixty
Speaker 3: four after had the same.
Speaker 2: Home this was I had a Nintendo sixty four, but
Speaker 2: I was again I missed the boat on all the
Speaker 2: Pokemon stuff, so I was just oblivious if it.
Speaker 3: Was okay, okay, jj just chimed in to say almost positive.
Speaker 3: It was on the n sixty four. So I think
Speaker 3: I'm remembering this game correctly. I think my roommates in
Speaker 3: college had this game.
Speaker 2: Okay, cool, cool, Jeff continues. My favorite episode of the
Speaker 2: classic anime were the ones where they ditched the main
Speaker 2: plot line entirely, such as the one that showed what
Speaker 2: Professor Oak is doing all day, running experiments, performing statistical research,
Speaker 2: care and feeding of his Pokemon test subjects, et cetera.
Speaker 2: It's a common theme in the game and the shows
Speaker 2: that when Pokemon are discarded, they are transferred to Oak's lab.
Speaker 2: This episode showed what happened on the other side of
Speaker 2: those transactions and was proof that they weren't just sent
Speaker 2: to quote a farm upstate.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, that's nice to pick up on loose ends,
Speaker 3: so people don't assume the worst.
Speaker 2: Yes. In another episode, the human heroes and villains are
Speaker 2: separated from their Pokemon, who are marooned on an island.
Speaker 2: Miaw with a masterless Pokemon who chooses to be villainous.
Speaker 2: Tries to rally the villain's Pokemon to fight the hero's team,
Speaker 2: arguing that as bad guys, they should stick together. This
Speaker 2: leads to a philosophical debate among the little monsters, with
Speaker 2: the other bad Pokemon insisting that Pokemon are neither inherently
Speaker 2: good nor evil, and they only fight to please their masters,
Speaker 2: and there was no way that they were going to
Speaker 2: attack their brothers just to please some third party jerk
Speaker 2: trying to stir up trouble. I think they all end
Speaker 2: up having snacks around a campfire or something like that.
Speaker 3: Is a masterless Pokemon kind of like a Ronan, I guess.
Speaker 2: So the Pokemon human relationship certainly raises a lot of questions,
Speaker 2: which again, like this is kind of one of the
Speaker 2: interesting parts about the world building in Detective Pikachu, where
Speaker 2: it kind of it's almost like like, clearly they took
Speaker 2: some inspiration from Blade Runner, and there's sort of like this,
Speaker 2: how do humans and replicans live alongside each other? How
Speaker 2: to pokemons and humans live alongside each other?
Speaker 3: That sort of thing.
Speaker 2: But there's no there's no Blade Runner out there icing
Speaker 2: Pokemon in the street just to go ahead and prepare
Speaker 2: everyone for that.
Speaker 3: They don't have a void komp test.
Speaker 2: No, there there are. There is one really key c
Speaker 2: scene where a Pokemon is interrogated.
Speaker 3: Okay, Mew two, I'll tell you about Mew two.
Speaker 2: All right, Jeff continues. One thing that's never been clear
Speaker 2: to me. Are there any regular animals in their universe?
Speaker 2: I have I have asked my child this as well,
Speaker 2: and uh the answer was wishy washy, but perhaps not anyway,
Speaker 2: Jeff continues, says, I don't remember ever seeing anyone with
Speaker 2: a regular dog or cat as a pet, though there
Speaker 2: are many dog and cat Pokemon analogs, and in fact,
Speaker 2: many species are explicitly described in relation to mundane animals.
Speaker 2: Whenever they eat on the show, the food seems to
Speaker 2: be vegetarian. Perhaps the notion of slaughtering and consuming creatures
Speaker 2: who can follow complex instructions and pronounce their own names
Speaker 2: was just completely beyond the pale in their world.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I can imagine that. Yeah. So if they
Speaker 3: have Pokemon instead of animals, and the Pokemon are a
Speaker 3: little too lovable, like, can't you can't eat any of them?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Like, really, the idea of eating a Pokemon is grotesque.
Speaker 2: I think we can all agree. Back when the Good
Speaker 2: Jeff continues, Back when it was all the rage, I
Speaker 2: ran into a young guy playing Pokemon Go in a park.
Speaker 2: He had just caught his favorite a corsela, a coral
Speaker 2: based species. They can only survive in clean water. He
Speaker 2: was excited because he was about to start undergraduate marine
Speaker 2: science work protecting real life coral species from bleaching due
Speaker 2: to climate change. Wow, he said he didn't know if
Speaker 2: he would have been on this path in life, if
Speaker 2: not for course Sola, that's intense. Is that I'd love
Speaker 2: to hear that. So I believe the franchise Jeff continues
Speaker 2: actually has some positive effect, hopefully enough to counter its
Speaker 2: merch contribution to the Great Pacific garbage patch. Wow.
Speaker 3: Well, I feel like we've heard enough from different listeners
Speaker 3: in this regard that I'm pretty confident it really does
Speaker 3: drive people to go into the biological sciences and zoology especially,
Speaker 3: I guess. I mean we heard from that the other
Speaker 3: listener who like runs the Pokemon themed wildlife camps for kids. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so I'm sold on the idea it really does get
Speaker 3: kids in the biological creature orientation space.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it's like fascination with monsters, you know,
Speaker 2: or you know, mythology and all these things activate the
Speaker 2: wonder centers of the brain, you know. And we can
Speaker 2: have wonder about the fantastic and the imagined, but we
Speaker 2: can have equal and even greater amounts of wonder about
Speaker 2: the natural world. And these things are interconnected. Oh, let's see.
Speaker 2: But Jeff is not done. Jeff also chimes in on polywater.
Speaker 2: It says, on a related note, polywater doesn't seem to
Speaker 2: have been completely eliminated.
Speaker 3: Well, Jeff's polywater syndrome doesn't seem to have been.
Speaker 2: Oh, polywater syndrome. I'm sorry, I just read the email.
Speaker 2: I was imagining polywater is actually real and there's some
Speaker 2: of it out there and we have to eliminate it.
Speaker 3: It is not real. So to explain, Jeff links to
Speaker 3: a University of Michigan press release headline nitrial and latex
Speaker 3: gloves may cause overestimation of microplastics University of Michigan study
Speaker 3: reveals so. To read a bit from the top of
Speaker 3: this article quote, nitrial and latex gloves that scientists wear
Speaker 3: while they are measuring microplastics may lead to a potential
Speaker 3: overestimation of the tiny pollutants, according to a University of
Speaker 3: Michigan study. The study found that gloves may unintentionally contaminate
Speaker 3: lab equipment scientists use to measure microplastics in air, water
Speaker 3: and other samples with non plastic particles called steer rates.
Speaker 3: University of Michigan researchers Matteline Clough and Ann McNeil suggest
Speaker 3: clean room gloves, which release fewer particulates, be worn instead.
Speaker 3: So the similarity to the polywater issue here would be
Speaker 3: that if these researchers are correct, simple contamination problems contamination
Speaker 3: of samples is contributing to a trend or perception in
Speaker 3: recent research. That perception is about the abundance of microplastics
Speaker 3: in the environment. But I think even if these critics
Speaker 3: of microplastics research are correct, there's a major difference in
Speaker 3: both quality and quantity of the misdirection that follows from
Speaker 3: that contamination. So this is not arguing. The researchers here
Speaker 3: are not arguing that there is no proliferation of microplastics
Speaker 3: in the environment, just that it is somewhat overestimated by
Speaker 3: contamination issues caused by lab gloves. So you know, they're
Speaker 3: not at all suggesting that microplastics are a wholly invented
Speaker 3: imaginary substance like polywater turned out to be. To read
Speaker 3: from the article, this is quoting in McNeil, the senior
Speaker 3: author of the study and a University of Michigan professor
Speaker 3: of chemistry, macromolecular science, and engineering. McNeil says, quote, we
Speaker 3: may be overestimating microplastics, but there should be none. There's
Speaker 3: still a lot out there and that's the problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very important to stress here, especially given how easily
Speaker 2: a paper like this can be misconstrued in ther some
Speaker 2: corners of the media, where if something is not if
Speaker 2: there's some correction on something that was previously thought, well,
Speaker 2: then it's spun as a hoax or some sort of
Speaker 2: nefarious plot to get you to I don't know, but
Speaker 2: buy less plastic, that sort of thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really good point. Motivated parties often like
Speaker 3: to take research like this that expresses any skepticism or
Speaker 3: correction of a trend in research as proof that the
Speaker 3: entire trend in research is false, which is not the case.
Speaker 3: Here was the case for polywater, does not appear to
Speaker 3: it all be the case for microplastics. They're real.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, Jeff closes out this email by saying,
Speaker 2: thanks again for providing such varied and weird content. Your
Speaker 2: shows have been helping to distract me as I recover
Speaker 2: from injury. You provide an excellent service to us all Jeff.
Speaker 3: I wish you a speedy recovery.
Speaker 2: Jeff, absolutely all right. Well you know, Joe, I'm at
Speaker 2: six percent battery on my laptop. Here, let's do a
Speaker 2: little weird house before everything dies on it.
Speaker 3: Okay, let's wrap it up. Pick, take your pick, of
Speaker 3: any of the Weird House messages.
Speaker 2: Oh, let's see, there's some good ones here, some good
Speaker 2: recommendations here for films that we have not watched yet.
Speaker 2: Let's just see where my cursor lands. This one comes
Speaker 2: to us from lf. LF says, Hey, have you guys
Speaker 2: done what Dreams May Come? I saw it a very
Speaker 2: long time ago, probably twenty years, but it stayed with
Speaker 2: me to this day. Not horror exactly, but more about
Speaker 2: the horrors of real life and how one man goes
Speaker 2: about dealing with it. Thanks.
Speaker 3: No, we have not done it on the show. And
Speaker 3: I've never seen this movie.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I saw. I think I saw it in
Speaker 2: theaters when it came out. Of course, has you know
Speaker 2: the late great Robin Williams based on matheson work and
Speaker 2: if memory, if my memory is correct, Werner Herzog has
Speaker 2: a cameo in it. Oh, and it is essentially a
Speaker 2: harrowing of hell, sort of a venturing into the underworld
Speaker 2: in search of lost loved ones, that sort of thing.
Speaker 3: Oh, kind of orphig tale. Yeah, yeah, okay, I'm going
Speaker 3: to do this message from Scott because it also pertains
Speaker 3: to Richard Matheson. So this was a response to our
Speaker 3: episode on The Last Man on Earth during Vincent Price
Speaker 3: the adaptation of Matheson's I Am Legend, Scott says, thank
Speaker 3: you so much for covering I Am Legend on Weird House.
Speaker 3: Richard Matheson's novel is one of my all time favorites,
Speaker 3: and your discussion reminded me that it has been an
Speaker 3: inexcusable length of time since my last reread. I found
Speaker 3: your comparison of the ending's tone interesting. You offered variations
Speaker 3: on two views for the ending of the movie. Number one,
Speaker 3: the end is bleak because it is the end of
Speaker 3: real humanity with the death of Morgan as the last Man.
Speaker 3: And two, it's an uplifting end because the monster is
Speaker 3: gone and the new people can get on with creating
Speaker 3: the new civilis a I offer a third view, it
Speaker 3: is a depressing ending because the new society reveals itself
Speaker 3: to be subject to the same prejudices and hatred as
Speaker 3: the old one. In the movie version, when they kill Morgan,
Speaker 3: they destroy the hope of a true cure for the
Speaker 3: disease his blood as the source of antibodies. Their fear
Speaker 3: and desire for vengeance doom them to continue the stopgap
Speaker 3: treatment they've been using to keep the disease at bay.
Speaker 3: The novel does not include any of the ideas that
Speaker 3: Morgan's blood has curative properties, but the depressing ending is
Speaker 3: still there because of the ferocity with which the living
Speaker 3: infected slaughter the undead vampires when they come to seize Morgan,
Speaker 3: and the loathing with which he's treated while held captive
Speaker 3: before his execution. The Wikipedia article states it as quote
Speaker 3: fiendish glee, which matches my recollection of the scenes in
Speaker 3: the novel. In the end, the new society is subject
Speaker 3: to the same prejudices fear, hatred, and violence toward the
Speaker 3: other as humanity has always been, be they undead vampires
Speaker 3: or Morgan Scott. Yeah, that's an interesting view that. So
Speaker 3: there are a new people in a way, and so
Speaker 3: in one sense we're predisposed toward their success because they're
Speaker 3: people if you accept them as people, like they are
Speaker 3: the people now, but also they're people in all the
Speaker 3: bad ways.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's been a while since I've seen Omega man.
Speaker 2: But they lean into this a bit more by having
Speaker 2: the new people as mutants is kind of like ghoules,
Speaker 2: kind of like the mutants that live underneath the planet
Speaker 2: of the apes, and they're essentially like carrying out like
Speaker 2: an anti technology inquisition as well. So yeah, very much
Speaker 2: summoning up these ideas of like, yep, these are the
Speaker 2: new people, same problems as with the old people. Nice
Speaker 2: but maybe, just maybe Chuck Heston will give his life
Speaker 2: to save everybody. We'll see. We may come back and
Speaker 2: discuss the Mega Man in full at some point in
Speaker 2: the future.
Speaker 3: Okay, you want to do one more?
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's see what we What do we got? We
Speaker 2: got some more mentions of films. Yeah, here's one from Dean. Hey, guys,
Speaker 2: just sending you some recommendations for Weird House two. I've
Speaker 2: mentioned before. First Encounters of the Spooky Kind, which you
Speaker 2: guys have been talking about featuring since you covered Mister
Speaker 2: Vampire back in twenty twenty one. Twenty twenty one, Come on, guys.
Speaker 2: Then there's Latitude Zero, a kooky one featuring Christopher Lee.
Speaker 2: Then two more, the Angry Red Planet and the Monolith Monsters.
Speaker 2: We've mentioned monolith monsters for sure on the show, and
Speaker 2: I think we've mentioned Angry Red Planet. Think about it,
Speaker 2: and thanks for the show, Dean. Well, Dean, thanks for
Speaker 2: I like it when people keep writing in about shows.
Speaker 2: Don't let us forget the ones that we need to cover. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Encounters of the Spooky Kind is a very important film
Speaker 2: in the history of this sort of supernannatural film, Hong
Speaker 2: Kong supernatural picture, and that's one I would like to
Speaker 2: cover that at some point. And then yeah, the model
Speaker 2: of Monsters has come up on the show as well,
Speaker 2: so yeah, I have to look I'm not as familiar
Speaker 2: with Latitude Zero. I need to look that one up,
Speaker 2: but generally, if Christopher Lee is in it, it's probably watchable.
Speaker 3: Hey, do you have enough laptop battery for me to
Speaker 3: do one more message here?
Speaker 2: Let's find out.
Speaker 3: Okay, this is from Lynn. Lynn says subject line film
Speaker 3: for Weird House Cinema starring baby Hugh Grant. Lynn says,
Speaker 3: a great, totally bonkers film for Weird House Cinema is
Speaker 3: Layer of the White Worm, starring Hugh Grant before anyone
Speaker 3: knew who he was. Rob Have we not done Lair
Speaker 3: of the White Worm? I thought we had.
Speaker 2: We almost did it once. Okay, you picked it and
Speaker 2: then then, you know, for various reasons. Sometimes we'll change
Speaker 2: things at the last minute.
Speaker 3: I don't remember why that was. Okay, Yeah, anyway, Lynn
Speaker 3: says Hugh Grant, before anyone knew who he was, almost
Speaker 3: called him Lou Grant at least he probably hope so.
Speaker 3: And I wonder if he lists it highly on his
Speaker 3: filmography nowadays. I'm guessing not, but he should. Layer of
Speaker 3: the White Worm is so balls to the wall crazy
Speaker 3: it deserves to be celebrated somewhere. One viewer's warning, however,
Speaker 3: devoted Catholics might be offended at one scene involving a crucifix. No,
Speaker 3: nothing like The Exorcist. Layer is one of my favorite
Speaker 3: films of all time. It's my dream to see it
Speaker 3: discussed on a show like yours. Keep up the great
Speaker 3: and important work you're doing. Best wishes, Lynn. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: well I've forgotten whatever happened to that time we almost
Speaker 3: did it. But I have long enjoyed this movie. My
Speaker 3: wife and I both love it. It's kind of a
Speaker 3: favorite horror movie in our house. It's it's very, very weird, definitely,
Speaker 3: and has a great sense of humor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't. I honestly don't know how you Grant
Speaker 2: views it, but you know he got to work with
Speaker 2: Ken Russell on it. It's a kN Russell film, so
Speaker 2: I would hope that you know, there's there's some fondness
Speaker 2: for that, and in general, yes, if you were, if
Speaker 2: you were, of if you find yourself sometimes offended by
Speaker 2: religious content and films, Ken Russell movies might not be
Speaker 2: for you, yes, but but he is he is indeed
Speaker 2: quite a fascinating filmmaker.
Speaker 3: I enjoyed Lin's warning that there might be one little
Speaker 3: scene that could be offensive to Catholics, a tiny little
Speaker 3: bit of blasphemy. Yeah, no, yeah, it's it. I think
Speaker 3: will be a highly offensive affair. But but I don't know,
Speaker 3: it's also very it's got a lightheartedness to it. Also,
Speaker 3: it's very fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I'm a we need It would be great
Speaker 2: to figure out what kN Russell film we should cover,
Speaker 2: because there there's you know, a lot of a lot
Speaker 2: of really good, weird Ken Russell movies.
Speaker 3: Totally Okay, does that do it for today?
Speaker 2: I think that's probably for today. But we have so
Speaker 2: much we didn't get to.
Speaker 3: We'll touch more in the bag here, So we're gonna
Speaker 3: have to do another Listener Mail episode pretty soon. I
Speaker 3: think in a few weeks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just in a few weeks. So if we didn't
Speaker 2: get to what you wrote, us. Don't worry. We may
Speaker 2: get to it next time, but don't let that stop
Speaker 2: you from writing all new emails, from sending all new
Speaker 2: pet photos, dream interpretations, thoughts about how we don't look like,
Speaker 2: how we sound, and so forth. All of it's fair game.
Speaker 2: We'd love to hear from you. Just a reminder that
Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is primarily a science and
Speaker 2: culture podcast, with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, short
Speaker 2: form episodes on Wednesdays and on Fridays. We set aside
Speaker 2: most serious concerns, so just talk about a weird film
Speaker 2: on Weird House Cinema.
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow
Speaker 3: your Mind dot com.
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.