WEBVTT - STBYM Listener Mail: The Joy of Fish 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:06.040 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:13.080 Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind listener Mail. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:14.080 My name is Robert. 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:16.920 Lamb and I am Joe McCormick, and today we are 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:19.720 bringing you some messages from the Stuff to Blow your 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:22.439 Mind email address. If you're a fan of the show 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:24.840 and you have never gotten in touch before, you can 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:28.680 do so at any time, for any reason at contact 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.880 at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. We give 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:34.120 the address out at the end of every episode, but 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:36.000 we like to throw it at the top of listener 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:39.680 mail episodes just to remind people that, yes, you can 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:42.199 write about whatever you want. Most of the time we 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:45.960 get messages with people trying to add something interesting, maybe 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:49.080 from their own personal experience or from their own independent 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:52.160 research about a topic we've talked about on the show. 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.520 But really, whatever you want is fair game. Contact at 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:57.160 stuff to Blow Yourmind dot com. 0:00:57.200 --> 0:00:59.320 That's right. If you have recommendations for the future, write 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:01.160 in HI. 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We are on some of 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:25.160 the socials, and if you message us through the socials, 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:27.440 there's a chance that message will make it to us. 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:32.240 But honestly, we don't tend those gardens as well as 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:35.760 we once did, so the best way is always going 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:36.760 to be that email address. 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:39.640 That's right, Let's see Rob, you good if we kick 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:42.880 things off with some messages about our series on Kartchner Caverns. 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:43.760 Yeah, let's do it. 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:47.760 Kartchner Caverns is a cave system in Arizona that Rob 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:50.280 you visited earlier this year with your family, and then 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:52.680 we did some episodes on it about its native bat 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:57.320 populations and the discovery and conservation history of it. So 0:01:57.560 --> 0:01:59.400 that was an interesting topic and a lot of people 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:02.640 had thoughts Cartchner Caverns. So I'm going to do this 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:13.040 first message from Angela subject Caverns. Hey guys, longtime listener, 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:16.880 love the show, Thanks for such interesting topics. Just finish 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:20.720 listening to the first part of your Kartchner caverns episode, Man, 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:24.000 did that bring back memories? For context? I don't like 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:28.000 enclosed spaces. I really really don't like being stuck in 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:31.000 the dark. But I'm also a let's go it might 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:34.200 be fun kind of person I can identify. With that 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:39.240 combination of personality traits anxious but also game, it makes 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:44.079 for a lot of stressful situations. So Angela says we 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:48.720 were visiting. We were in Kentucky visiting Angela and she 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:50.880 doesn't say who. I guess friends or family. We were 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:54.320 in Kentucky visiting. As we were driving, we noticed a 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.480 sign for caverns. I made the joke that I'd rather 0:02:57.560 --> 0:02:58.600 go to a tavern. 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:02.600 Okay to this story is starting off like a horror movie, 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:04.640 but yeah, let's continue and see where it goes. 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:10.000 Yeah, preferring taverns to caverns right. Regardless, my traveling companions 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:12.680 really wanted to go, so I thought, sure, this will 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:16.200 be interesting. As we waited for the tour to begin, 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:19.680 I started putting my mind at ease, remembering that cute 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:23.800 Atari spilunking game and trying to remember it's what I'm 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:27.600 sure we're equally adorable sounds. I had to look this 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:29.880 up because I've never played this game, but rob I 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:32.600 dug up a video of some gameplay and I attached 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:34.840 a screenshot in the outline you can look at here. 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.800 So it's one of these games where you know the 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:43.440 pixel quality is very it's you know, it looks like 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.760 some scuzz on the screen. So you play as a 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:50.000 little light blue wad of pixels exploring a cave and 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:52.640 there are ladders you can climb, and it looks like 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:55.760 ropes or vines or something you can swing from. The 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.680 sounds are very cute, as Angela remembered. It makes that 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:02.600 classic little Lodix bittoon sound when you pick up a 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:05.640 power up. But also I thought this game was funny 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:10.640 because it's not like a just biological cave entities. There 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.880 are ghosts. There are ghosts that float towards you, and 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:16.200 I think you can shoot the ghosts with a gun 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:18.880 or with something. There's like a projectile you put out. 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:23.000 Eventually it makes the ghosts disappear. But the other thing 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.720 about it that was funny is it keeps looping. The 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:30.560 first phrase of the mysterio so piscato. This is a 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:33.839 classic piece of music you might recognize from like old 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:36.920 silent movie or not silent movies, old movies. Whenever the 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:41.200 villain appears done dune dund dun dun dun dun dun. 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:45.320 Okay, and then that translates, I believe to mysterious pizza cat. Right, 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:46.880 that's exactly what. Okay? 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:51.160 Yeah, so anyway, this imagine, this that we've just described 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:54.320 is what our claustrophobe Angela is running through her brain 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:58.760 for comfort. But the next she says, we were helped 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:04.840 into this little boat. Oh, interesting, a boat, sweet mother 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:07.840 of God. As we started entering the cave, we were 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:11.600 instructed to lower our heads since it had rained and 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:15.040 the water level was high. If you're sitting down now, 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.640 put your ear against your knee. That was my current situation. 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:22.640 I could feel the rock ceiling against my puffy jacket. 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:26.760 This must have been the longest twelve seconds of my life. 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.000 We got off the boat and continued on foot. Man, 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:32.839 this just keeps getting rougher and rougher, like tight space 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:37.159 is but also water. Suffice to say the rest of 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.320 the tour was a piece of cake. The darkness, the 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:43.400 enclosed space is the creepy prehistoric atmosphere, the eerie silence. 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:46.919 The bats were their bats. I don't even remember, but 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:50.280 what do you know, I actually enjoyed it. From time 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:54.280 to time I would get waves of why as I 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:57.560 remembered I was underground, But altogether, I'm glad I got 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:01.400 to experience it, and I particularly I remember the guide addressing 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.919 not disturbing the ecosystem, which was an interesting reminder that 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.599 as far as nature is concerned, we were not really 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:11.760 meant to be there. We'll save episode two for another day, 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:16.839 Smiley face. Thanks for the cool show, Angela. Now, Angela 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:20.560 doesn't say exactly what this cave was or where it was, 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:22.479 except that it was in the state of Kentucky. But 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:26.200 based on her description, I did some googling and I 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:29.479 feel pretty confident that the cave she's talking about was 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:33.640 the is the Lost River Cave in Bowling Green, Kentucky. 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:37.080 So this is a cave that actually does have boat tours. 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:40.400 And I watched like a video somebody made of going 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:42.560 through the tour of this cave, and it does begin 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:44.440 like one of the first things is you get in 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:46.520 a boat and you have to go under this low 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:50.600 rock ceiling passage, and the guide at this part of 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:52.400 the tour it says, you know, you're not allowed to 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:54.120 touch the rocks and the rest of the cave. This 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:56.000 is the one place where you can touch the ceiling 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:59.120 because it's kind of unavoidable, So encourage people to just 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:00.880 like put their hands up up and touch it. I 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:04.000 guess the water was not as high in the video 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:06.120 I was watching as when Angela described it. 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:09.120 Yeah, I never visited that particular Kentucky cave. I think 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:10.920 I went to a different one when I was a kid, 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:14.520 and I did once tour I think some old salt 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:17.880 mines in Germany on like a high school trip where 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.000 you had to get in a boat, but the ceiling 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:23.000 was not that close. It was a little bit roomier, 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:28.400 again being if memory serves, a mining operation as opposed 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:30.040 to a naturally formed cavern. 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:34.520 So there's a funny thing about the Lost River Cave 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.120 if this is in fact the one that Angela is 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:40.560 talking about, and I'm pretty sure it is, because in 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:42.480 this case, it's funny that you say you would rather 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:45.800 go to a tavern than a cavern. The Lost River 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:50.040 Cave once literally was basically a tavern, not in the 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:53.560 you know, not in the tavern in sense of like 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.720 dungeons and dragons. Tavern but it was a place to drink, 0:07:56.800 --> 0:07:59.520 party and get down. So I was reading about this 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:04.200 in a little history article by Teelia Butler for w NKY, Kentucky. 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:08.840 According to local lore, during the Prohibition era, this cave 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:12.080 was used for smuggling liquor, but by the nineteen thirties 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:15.080 it had become one of the most famous night clubs 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:19.800 in the country, called the Cavern Nightclub. The article calls 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:22.760 it quote the coolest place to be both above and 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:26.680 below ground. And there's a double meaning of coolest place 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:31.400 there because Billboard magazine called it the only air conditioned 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:34.720 nightclub in the United States. This is because of the 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:38.680 natural temperature control offered by the cave. Cave air tends 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:42.040 to be pretty stable and temperature year round, usually somewhere 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:45.640 around the upper fifties fahrenheit. The article goes on to 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:49.080 describe a bit of its history, saying, quote, it was 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:53.320 Jimmy Stewart's publicity. Now that's not Jimmy Stewart, James. That's 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:55.920 not the actor, not the guy from Vertigo in rear window. 0:08:56.040 --> 0:09:00.600 This is different a bowling green Jimmy Stewart. Quote. It 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:04.160 was Jimmy Stewart's publicity. The Bowling Green, businessman who owned 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:06.960 the club from nineteen thirty four to nineteen forty nine. 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:10.280 That turned the club into a swinging place. Throughout the 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:13.600 big band jazz era of the nineteen forties, many famous 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:17.199 musicians and singers performed at the Cavern Nightclub. Big names 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.760 like Dinah Shore and Francis Craig with his NBC Orchestra 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:24.439 could be heard from the Cave's bandstand. In those days, 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:27.840 club partygoers could purchase a deluxe ice bowl with whiskey 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:34.040 hidden inside for just two dollars. Oh wow. As so, 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:36.360 the article goes on to describe how eventually the club 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:40.120 declined in popularity, in part, I think because they built 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:42.200 a new highway system. That meant a lot of the 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:44.760 traffic that used to go near it wasn't passing by 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:48.000 as much anymore. So there was that also just changes 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:52.199 in you like, musical taste. Jazz clubs weren't as popular 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:56.240 by the nineteen sixties. So if you go there today, 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:58.760 you can still see the bar and stage area, and 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:01.560 I think it may sometimes to be used for events today, 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:04.000 but but yeah, a lot of it's just this like 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:07.560 cave nature boat tour sort of thing. 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:13.600 Now, speaking of caves used for music up in Grundy County, Tennessee. Yeah, 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:15.680 you've got the caverns, Joe. Have you ever been to 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:16.200 a show there? 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:17.680 I have, Yeah, I have. 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:19.560 What was it like? 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:23.920 I do not want to speak ill of the musician 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:26.280 I saw there. It was actually it was. I could 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:28.679 tell it was a great place to see a show. 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:31.200 But the show I saw was not great. I actually 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:31.800 fell asleep. 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:35.400 Sometimes that's good. It depends what you're seeing, Like if 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:40.240 you're seeing, you know, particularly ambient group, you know sometimes 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:41.920 I mean not off a little bit, and that's fine. 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:44.360 It wasn't ambient. It was like it was like a 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.720 bluegrass show, and I forget it. I mean, I like 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:49.800 bluegrass music, but it was just not my favorite artist. 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:54.800 It was rather a somnolent experience experience. But yeah, but 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:57.160 I would like to go back there someday to yeah, 0:10:57.880 --> 0:10:59.360 see something I'm more jazzed about. 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:02.640 Jazz? Yeah, jazz, which would brand of jazz would be 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:04.280 appropriate for a cavern environment? 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:08.040 I don't know. I guess Dinah Shore is not playing anymore. 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:12.400 All right, let's see what's next in the old mail bag. 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:20.320 This one comes to us from Bill. Bill writes Robin Joe, 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:23.680 thank you for entertaining and educating me for close to 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:25.760 a decade. Now. I was so glad to hear you 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:29.280 take on Cartooner Caverns a wonderful place. I visited it 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:32.239 once many years ago and was just thinking about returning 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:36.560 after recently checking out Carlsbad Caverns highly recommended, and feeling 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:40.400 the draw back to my caving days. Lehman Caves in 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:44.480 Great Basin National Park is also phenomenal, with unique formations 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:48.240 called shields that are a bit of a mystery now. 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.120 In Bill's email, he includes a link out to some 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:56.480 National Park's page information about these shield formations in Lehman Caves. Rob, 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:58.600 I've just got a picture for you to look at here. 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:01.840 Are these are pretty interesting? You know what they look like? 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:04.319 They look like gigantic oyster mushrooms. 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:08.520 They do giant stone mushrooms. Yeah, all right. Well Bill 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:12.320 continues here talking about the Lanmon Caves. Here, he says 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:16.200 the area has both wild caves, minimal human trace and 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:19.880 a great user friendly tour where their motto one hundred 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:22.160 years ago was if you can break it, you can 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:22.560 take it. 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:22.880 Oh. 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:28.880 No, obviously not great considering where a cave conservation has gone, 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.280 but that certainly tracks with what happened with a lot 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:36.120 of these early show caves. He continues, as for Joe's 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.040 request of inside the mind of a cave or Yes, 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:42.360 exploring a new canyon or cave where humans may never 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:46.720 have been is quite the attraction. In both caving and canyoneering, 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:49.319 I have had moments where I needed to do the 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:52.880 exhale trick that Robert mentioned in order to continue through 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:57.320 tight spots. As you both stated, please everyone be careful 0:12:57.360 --> 0:12:59.680 out there. As I often say in guiding, one must 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:03.400 have three levels of trust in these sorts of adventures. 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.600 Trust in yourself and your abilities, trust in your partners, 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:09.320 and trust in your gear. I like to think of 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:13.440 slot canyoneering as caving with a sun roof, a great 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:17.720 way to explore the skinnies without the full commitment of spelunking. 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:22.520 If you ever wish to experience anything involving via Ferrata canyoneering, 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.880 or various levels of adventure in the Desert's southwest, hit 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:26.920 me up Bill. 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:27.960 Well, thank you. 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:28.280 Bill. 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:30.319 By the way, I just wanted to add one more 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.960 note about the shield cave formations that Bill was talking about. 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.640 In that is the Lehman Caves in Great Basin National Park. 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.600 So the page that Bill linked to is a National 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.200 Park's information page and it's got a big picture of 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:47.680 the one that's called the parachute formation in Lemon Caves. 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:51.439 And much like some of the formations we were talking 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:56.240 about in the Carshenter Caverns episode, apparently the exactly how 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.280 the shield formations come together is not fully understood. I 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:03.360 think there are some leading ideas, but it's not fully settled. 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:08.120 And the page says, quote, although cave shield formation is 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:12.600 still puzzling, it's hypothesized that cave shields form as extensions 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:16.800 of joints or cracks in the floor, wall and ceiling. 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:21.480 So the idea is that you've got hydrostatic pressure acting 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:26.240 on the calcium or calcite rich water that is inside 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:30.520 the stone that surrounds the cave, and then the water 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:34.000 kind of bleeds out at these joints or these cracks 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:36.440 in the walls and floor, and then of course the 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.160 same process that we talked about in those episodes happens. 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:43.720 You know, it loses carbon dioxide and precipitite precipitates calcite. 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:47.400 Fascinating. And again, you know, as we discussed in that episode. 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:50.240 I think it's just so amazing that we have these 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:54.640 cave environments and these amazing formations and mysteries remain regarding 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:57.520 how these things have formed. You know, we think it's 0:14:57.520 --> 0:14:59.960 easy to make the mistake of thinking, well, it's literally 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:02.920 set in stone, it's you know, it's it's there. We 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:05.960 can figure it out. But we're not completely sure on 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:09.000 some of these things. And again, especially it's especially exciting 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:12.000 with these living caves where the rock is still forming 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:15.880 and reforming, breaking, repairing itself and so forth. It's almost 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:16.560 like a living thing. 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:28.240 All Right, are you cool if I do this message 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:28.880 from Chris? 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:30.040 Yeah, let's have it. 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:34.040 Subject line this is the way in This email begins 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:39.160 with an epigraph, classy nice quote. Presently they were under 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:41.520 the shadow, and here in the midst of it they 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.440 saw the opening of a cave. This is the way in, 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:48.840 said Gollum softly. I think this is from when galam 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.880 is leading Sam and Frodo into she Loob's Layer. And 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:54.760 which book is that? Is that? A Two Towers or 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:55.440 Return of the King. 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:57.880 Oh, I'm always a little shaky on this because and 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:00.440 then I also can't remember how this shuffle thing around 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:01.680 in the film versions. 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:06.600 Yeah, I think they put if I'm remembering correctly, this 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:09.400 might happen in the book The Two Towers, but they 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:11.120 put it in the movie Return of the King. 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:13.000 M okay, yeah that would make sense. 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:17.960 Yeah, Tolkien fans correct me if I'm wrong, and I 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:23.960 know you will anyway. This message goes on. Good day, Robert, 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.040 Joe and JJ writing today in response to your excellent 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:30.960 episodes on Carchner Caverns Listen slash watched with my kids 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:34.000 on Netflix. Side note, they are very happy to put 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.200 a face with the voice after all the time listening 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:39.320 with me. They would like you to know that you 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:44.200 both look way different than they thought crying laughing emoji. Yeah. 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:46.360 I mean I would be surprised at this point if 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:49.760 anyone were to say you look exactly as we imagined. 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:53.600 As a family. We have visited caves together before in 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.560 Kentucky at Mammoth Cave where we saw Helick Tights and 0:16:56.640 --> 0:17:01.480 Cave Popcorn, and Missouri at Mirramac Caves and Onondoga Cave. 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:04.800 While all are unique in their own way. Your discussion 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:09.480 about how the two sorry the Two Cavers weighed their 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:13.399 options for Cartchner Caverns really struck me as interesting in 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:16.840 regards to the two Missouri caves I mentioned. On one hand, 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:20.480 you have Merrimac Caves, which, if not the most has 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.720 to be up there as the most commercialized cave in 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:28.200 the world as if as if you have driven anywhere 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:30.960 in the Midwest, you may have seen billboards for it 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:34.720 noting its location right off Route sixty six. On the 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:37.639 other hand, you have the Onondoga Cave, which has a 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:41.360 long history of land disputes and ownership changes, but has 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:44.680 been managed as a Missouri State park since nineteen eighty two. 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:48.480 For my money, I prefer Onondoga and highly recommend a 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:51.720 visit if able. It has some wonderful and unique features, 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:55.920 such as the lily pad room sands frogs. Though, thanks 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:58.760 as always for your episodes Chris and then Rob for 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:00.600 you to look at in the outline pulled in some 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:04.600 pictures of the lily pad room on Endoga Cave. That 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.840 is beautiful, quite beautiful. So it has a you know, 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:09.440 I don't know what you call this in a cave, 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:11.480 like a lake or a pond inside the cave and 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:14.680 looks like some standing water. And then there are these 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:18.280 formations that rise just above the surface of the water. 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:21.080 And I don't know exactly what you call those are 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:24.000 how they're formed, but yeah, they look kind of like 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:25.720 lily pads floating on the surface. 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:30.760 Very cool. Yeah, all right, well, I appreciate that field 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:35.720 report and the epigraph. Yeah, very classy. All right, Let's 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:37.040 see what else do we have in here in the 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:41.520 old male bag. Let's see, all right, This next one 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:52.639 comes to us from Sheldene, subject line cave conservation. She writes, Hey, guys, 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:57.520 I hope you're well. I don't know if that's responding 0:18:57.520 --> 0:18:58.160 to anything in. 0:18:58.160 --> 0:18:59.960 Particular is a question mark. 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:04.359 Anyway, As she continues, I wanted to tell you about 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:09.200 my admittedly limited experience with cave conservation in South Africa. 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:13.080 Probably the most famous tourist caves in South Africa are 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:17.080 the Congo Caves in Oatshorn. I think every school kid 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:19.560 I know, including my own, do a school tour to 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:25.760 Oatshorn to see the crocodiles, ostriches and Kingo caves. When 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:28.000 I went, it must have been in nineteen eighty seven, 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.320 because I was eleven or twelve. Back then, there was 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:33.240 a lot more stage dressing in the caves. In the 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:36.360 big cave you enter into first there's a huge formation 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:39.120 called the organ pipes, and when I was a kid, 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:41.080 they turned off all the lights in the cave and 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:43.520 lit up the formation with colored lights and played loud, 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:47.320 dramatic organ music. The whole cavern floor had been filled 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:49.880 in with clay to make it flat, and they used 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:52.960 to hold concerts in there. I remember seeing hundreds of 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:54.600 fold up chairs in one area. 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:56.960 What would be your favorite organ song to hear in 0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:57.320 a cave? 0:19:57.400 --> 0:19:59.720 Ro ooh, well, I mean, I guess I would have 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:02.520 to say a phanom of the opera music, or I 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:04.360 was thinking back to Doctor Five's. I had to look 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:08.280 it up, but Mendelssohn seemed to be a favorite of 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:11.200 the abominable Doctor Five, so I might put in a 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:11.960 request for that. 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:15.560 I could go for a little cave treatment of In 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.600 the Garden of Eden by Iron Butterfly. 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:22.840 There you go. That's a good one, all right, as 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:25.159 she continues as an aside for Joe. As part of 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:28.240 this little show, they have a tiny oil nap now 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:31.400 electric to give people an idea of how little light 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:34.159 that first explorer of the cave had available. It was 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:38.600 barely anything in the dark. Going back to that experience 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:41.040 in the eighties, I recall the air being moist but 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:45.840 not uncomfortable, and that the walls and formations glittered fast. 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:47.960 Farward to nineteen ninety nine, my husband and I went 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:50.480 back while on honeymoon, and I was intrigued at how 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:53.439 the tour had taken on a more ecological bent and 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:57.359 the changes to the caves. They had removed all the 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:00.240 unnecessary lights and even pointed out a spot where where 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:04.000 black algae had infested a section of the cave wall. 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:06.440 This sort of thing. I think we talked about this 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:09.920 in our episodes, like this is where human contact can 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:14.240 cause this to grow, or certainly naturally occur in contact 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:18.600 via bats. They explained that the lights encourage the growth 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:21.119 of the algae, so much like Rob described, the lights 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:24.359 switch off. The light switch off automatically to limit this. 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:26.879 They also explained how hard it is to remove or 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:29.960 kill the algae without damaging the cave. We went back 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:32.439 again in twenty fifteen, this time with our kids, and 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.679 what struck me was the humidity and the dullness of 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:38.320 the caves. There's no more glitter on the walls and formations. 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:41.160 They do seem to have managed to control the algae, 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:43.480 but I think the damage of thousands of humans is 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:47.840 visible in the overwhelming brownness of the caves. Now, there 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:51.360 are two other cave systems, imaginatively named can Go two 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:54.600 and three, which are off limits to the public. The 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:57.400