1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: Hey, y'all, Eve's here. I know you're ready to get 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: into this episode, but really quick. We have been loving 3 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: connecting with y'all over black storytelling, and if you've really 4 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: been loving the show, then we would really appreciate it 5 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: if you would leave us a rating and review, subscribe 6 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: to the show, and share it with your friends. Thanks y'all. 7 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: Now time for the episode. On theme is a production 8 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and fair Weather Friends Media. You are. 9 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 2: Katie here in Atlanta. 10 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 1: Spring has sprung and I love this time of year 11 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: because of all the reminders of life. The days are longer, 12 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: the festivals are popping, the grills are firing up. 13 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 3: Basically, we back outside. 14 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: And I love it. And you know what, it feels 15 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: like a good time for an ode to black nature poetry. 16 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: I'm Katie and I'm Eves. Today's episode living Breathing Poetry. 17 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: In the United States, black people's relationship with nature is 18 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: fraught with stories of human danger. Nature has often been 19 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: a site of violence, dispossession, and exploitation. Think about lynching 20 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: and its association with trees. About the horrendous trips that 21 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: so many kidnapped Black Africans had to take across the 22 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: ocean in the Transatlantic slave trade, and think about Jim 23 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: Crow laws that prohibited black people from enjoying public beaches 24 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: or limited them to dirty, remote beaches. We could go 25 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 1: through a million more ways that people intentionally made nature 26 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: inhospitable and hostile for black people. Of course, nature has 27 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: also often been a site of refuge and a source 28 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: for survival, but so many Black Americans experiences in nature 29 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: have been rooted in exclusion and othering, so that relationship 30 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: has been tainted. We've been forced to interact with the 31 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: land as laborers and refugees, but we've also been torn 32 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: apart from the leisure and beauty of nature in so 33 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: many ways. 34 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 3: We are haunted and we're healing. A lot of people 35 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 3: around the world are organizing black outdoor groups and reclaiming 36 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 3: their right to be present and feel happy outside. 37 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: Definitely, and I am one of those people who loves 38 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: to frolic outdoors. But I do still have a lot 39 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: of conflicting feelings about nature, and a lot of them 40 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: are expressed so beautifully in nature poetry by black writers. 41 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 1: They write about the awe, the trauma, the inspiration, the love, 42 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: the fear. Black poets have written a lot about their 43 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: relationships with their physical environments. Those hard to parse emotions 44 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: that I have when I'm hiking or camping can be 45 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: summed up in a page or two in a poem, 46 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: and Black Nature poetry helps me process those feelings, even 47 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: if the contentment I find only last for a moment. 48 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: As many Black scholars have pointed out, black writers are 49 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: often left out of collections of American nature poetry, and 50 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: nature poems are often left out of collections of Black 51 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: American poetry. The book Black Nature, Four Centuries of African 52 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: American Nature Poetry, edited by Kamil T. Dungee, was the 53 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 1: first anthology to center nature poetry by Black American writers, 54 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: and it was published in two thousand and nine. 55 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 3: It's pretty telling that it covers four centuries of work. 56 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, because obviously, just like writers of other races, Black 57 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: people have a ton to say about the world around us. 58 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: We have thoughts about the land that supports us and 59 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: challenges us. We speak about the animals we care for 60 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: and the disasters that destroy our homes. Black folks poems 61 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: reflect the range of experiences that we have in our 62 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: physical environments. 63 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 3: When I think of nature poetry, I think of poems 64 00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 3: that exalt nature and emphasize its divinity and benevolence. It's 65 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 3: usually positive, full of awe and wonder. But is that 66 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 3: what you're talking about? 67 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: That's part of it, but that's not all of it. 68 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: As scholar ev Shockley explained in her essay Black Nature, 69 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: Human Nature, there was a lingering perception that Black American 70 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: poets did not write about nature, and that was propped 71 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 1: up by black poetry's association with urban environments throughout part 72 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: of the twentieth century. But poems that explore the darker 73 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: side of nature, not just its glory and magnificence, can 74 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 1: also be considered nature poems. 75 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 3: So basically anything dealing with the outside. 76 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. 77 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,039 Speaker 1: And this is one of those things that I go 78 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: back and forth on because nature really can have like 79 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: so many definitions, and I think different scholars and at 80 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: different times have considered nature different things. And whether they're 81 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: considering it from like a more environmental perspective or they're 82 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: considering it from an ecological perspective, then nature can mean 83 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: different things. It can mean human's relationship with nature, It 84 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,239 Speaker 1: can just mean things that are outside of the human 85 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: body and the human scope, which humans' hands have created. 86 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: But then there are other people who take nature to 87 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: also include the human because we exist on this earth, 88 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: and that would include the human form and things that 89 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: we do in the built environment in nature. So I 90 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: generally like to think of nature as things, and I 91 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: think for this episode as well, things outside that are 92 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: things that are not human created. 93 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 3: Because even like here in Atlanta, there's Piedmont Park which 94 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 3: is full of a lot of you know, trees and 95 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 3: animals and water and you know fish and all that, 96 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 3: but it was designed by a man. 97 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the concept of a park is human. 98 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: But the grass is still nature, the fish is still nature. 99 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: All of those things were not created by humans. 100 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 3: So so you're talking about the park, it's not nature poetry. 101 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 3: But if you're talking about the grass in the park, 102 00:05:58,640 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 3: it is nature poetry. No. 103 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: Well, I think if you're talking about the park, it 104 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: still is nature poetry because the park includes nature. But 105 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: if you're talking about like a skyscraper, then is not nature. 106 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: I think the lines do get pretty fuzzy because you 107 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 1: can talk about stepping outside your door and you live 108 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: in an urban environment and there's a green space that 109 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: uses turf instead of real grass. But I think you 110 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 1: can still talk about nature because there might be trees there, 111 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 1: still there might be birds that are living there. And 112 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: also like there are pigeons, those are still part of 113 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: nature too. So if I write a poem about interacting 114 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: with the pigeons and I'm sitting on a bench on 115 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: a street corner in the middle of a very busy 116 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: street in a city, You're still talking about nature. So 117 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 1: I think even in this book Black Nature by Kameilite Dungeee, 118 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: she really takes an expanded view of what nature is 119 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: and that often includes the urban environment. So from my 120 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: experience and reading all the different scholars takes on what 121 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: nature poetry is, there is a lot of leeway, Like 122 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 1: there's a lot of wiggle room. But the way that 123 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,159 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about it today and for the purposes of 124 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: our conversation today, I'm thinking about nature as things that 125 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: are not part of the human made, human built environment. 126 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: In the book Black on Earth, author Kimberly N. Ruffin 127 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: talks about what she calls the ecological burden and beauty paradox, 128 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: which quote pinpoints the dynamic influence of the natural and 129 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: social order on African American experience and outlook. She goes 130 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: on to say quote, and the combination of the burden 131 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: and beauty resides a story the world should hear. So 132 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: put on your sunscreen, grab your hats, get your allergy 133 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: medicine if you needed, because today on the show, we're 134 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: going to spend a little time outdoors. Part one, Fear 135 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: may live here. It's hard to ignore the relationship between 136 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: nature and horror. In the Black American imagination and in 137 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: black creative expression. There are the dangers that we all 138 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: face in the natural world, for example, territorial creatures, unpredictable weather, 139 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: and toxic plants. And then there's the terror we feel 140 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: when we remember that in this world, our interactions with 141 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: the natural world have often been hostile and ugly. Even 142 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: when everything looks beautiful, even when everything seems peaceful, that 143 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: encoded fear reminds us that it's not. There's a reason 144 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: Dungee opens her book Black Nature with an untitled poem 145 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: by Lucille Clifton. In it, Clifton questions why she can't 146 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: write a poem about nature and landscape without there being 147 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,319 Speaker 1: some sinister subtext beneath it. So I think it's appropriate 148 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: to start with the nature poetry of a man who 149 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: was enslaved George Moses Horton. He was born in North 150 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: Carolina in seventeen ninety eight, and when he was a child, 151 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: he taught himself to read and began composing poems in 152 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: his head. He sold love poems to students at the 153 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: University of North Carolina, and he used the money he 154 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 1: made from selling them and working as a laborer at 155 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: the university to purchase time from his enslavers. But he 156 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: also composed his own poems, which were about slavery and 157 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: rural life in the South. 158 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:24,319 Speaker 2: Here's part of. 159 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: One of his poems, called The Southern Refugee. The verdant 160 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: willow droops her head and seems to bid a fare 161 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: thee will the flowers with tears, their fragrance shed alas 162 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: their parting tale. To tale tis like the loss of paradise, 163 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,439 Speaker 1: or Eden's garden left in gloom, where grief affords us 164 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: no device, Such is thy lot my native home. I 165 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: never never shall forget my sad departure far away, until 166 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,599 Speaker 1: the sun of life is set and leaves behind no 167 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: beam of day. How can I, from my seat remove 168 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: and leave my ever devoted home and the dear garden 169 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: which I love the beauty of my native home. In 170 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: eighteen twenty nine, Horton became the first Black American man 171 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: to publish a book in the South, and he wrote 172 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: the first known poem by an enslaved person that protested slavery, 173 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: a poem called Liberty and Slavery. Horton also published books, 174 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: and he saved money from the books he published with 175 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: the intention of buying his freedom, but his enslavery didn't 176 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: go for that, so he remained enslaved until the end 177 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:30,119 Speaker 1: of the Civil War, when he went to Philadelphia, then Liberia, 178 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: and eventually back to Philadelphia. In the poem The Southern Refugee, 179 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: Horton laments leaving the South, the place where he was enslaved. 180 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: The horror of chattel slavery enforced displacement set the stage 181 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: for this story, but it's also the story of a 182 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: broken heart. His images of gardens, willows, flowers, and paradise 183 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: paint a picture of a welcoming, idyllic environment, But nature 184 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,559 Speaker 1: mourns for him. It mourns his departure, and he grieves 185 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 1: losing the land. He knows and loves us such a 186 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: connection with the land that it speaks to him as 187 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: he leaves, and as a refugee, Horton is fleeing a 188 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: familiar environment and entering into unknown territory. So there's this 189 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: connection and disconnection with land and environment that is a 190 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: through line from slavery to all of its offshoots. 191 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 3: Well, I think his work is more of the camp 192 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 3: that humans are a part of nature, and just thinking 193 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 3: about his position in the world. I think he was 194 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 3: definitely closer to the land than a lot of us are. 195 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 3: The way we live. Even being born in North Carolina 196 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 3: in the late seventeen hundreds, the expectation is that you 197 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 3: work the land. But then I imagined that there were 198 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 3: people he was in community with on those plantations that 199 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 3: did remember Africa or had stories from it, and you know, 200 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 3: in a space that isn't like trying to be like 201 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,959 Speaker 3: so industrialized and isn't trying to like extract so much 202 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 3: from the land, but you're just like working in community 203 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 3: with it. So I think his poetry like speaks to 204 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 3: that relationship. 205 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that might be Well, I don't know if 206 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: it's why he expressed such a love for the land, 207 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: but I do still think in reading his work it 208 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: kind of I don't know if surprised me, but it 209 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: definitely had an emotional effect on me. Of how emotional 210 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: he felt about it. He really didn't want to leave 211 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: this space where he probably saw so many other people 212 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: face terrible things, and he too himself also probably had 213 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: a lot of difficult times. I do know that in 214 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: the story of his life he sold his poems, he 215 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: did he was like a handy man at the university, 216 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: but all the while he was trying to buy his freedom, 217 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: which is very intense and to be told no. So 218 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: I am still very taken aback by the expression of 219 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: the love that he had for the land without overtly 220 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: mentioning the horror at the same time, because as we 221 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: mentioned early, there was that burden and beauty paradox. So 222 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: a lot of the time we'll see black authors talking 223 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: about their struggle between feeling so in alignment and connection 224 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: with the land and at the same time feeling alienated 225 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: by it. So in this poem, we don't see as 226 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: much of that alienation from the land. We just see 227 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: his connection to it. And so I don't know if 228 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: that's a compartmentalization or if it's just an honest expression 229 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: of how he felt, and it's just my projection and 230 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: my viewpoint from this point in time of thinking he 231 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: has to always talk about the terrors, because you know, 232 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,719 Speaker 1: they don't. They lived their lives, They loved a lot 233 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 1: of things in their lives. The earth was still beautiful. 234 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: Why shouldn't they enjoy that and be able to talk 235 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: about it in that way without always reverting to their trauma. 236 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:48,959 Speaker 2: Yeah. 237 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 3: I do think it's interesting because I feel like black 238 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 3: people are obsessed with like black first. Yeah, and he 239 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 3: said he was like the first known person to like 240 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 3: write poems denouncing slavery, which I think that's just like 241 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 3: a very interesting first to be why, just because you 242 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 3: would think if there were poets like that would be 243 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 3: like the first thing that you would write about, I think. 244 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 3: But of course it's very dangerous to be writing while 245 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 3: you're enslaved. A lot of people couldn't write in English, 246 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 3: and you know their mother tongue was taken from them, 247 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 3: so probably not like the highest priority to be writing poems. 248 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 3: But it is interesting to have that like first documented. 249 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: To me, it is interesting, and I think that there 250 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: may have been other people who had oral poems who 251 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: didn't write them down right. 252 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, even the spirituals their songs, and you know, songs 253 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 3: and poems are like very. 254 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 2: Like it's still verse. 255 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, so they were condemning slavery and like telling people 256 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 3: how to get the fuck own in a very covert way. 257 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 2: But like you. 258 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 3: Said, they might not have been written down and they 259 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 3: might have been like who actually wrote these or like 260 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 3: are they just like a community song? 261 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: Right? 262 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 3: We all made together? 263 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: And Horton he at first he spoke his poems as well, 264 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: and he remembered them in his head and he spoke 265 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: them and he had somebody else transcribe them who was 266 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: able to write, because he wasn't able to write. But 267 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: he was doing this as a child. He started doing 268 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: this when he was young, and it wasn't until much 269 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: later after that eighteen twenty nine publication, I believe when 270 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: he learned to write himself. So it's you know, illiteracy 271 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: also plays a factor, and unable to write also plays 272 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: a factor in this first for him. But as we 273 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: know first, there's always some context around first. Yeah. So 274 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: the other thing that struck me about this poem is 275 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: his use of the word native, because I feel like 276 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: that word native can have so many layers to it. 277 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: In the end of the part that we read from 278 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: this poem, he says the beauty of my native home, 279 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: So he uses that word native, and I think that 280 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: can be a heavy word because I mean, people were 281 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: kidnapped from Africa and had to come overseas to get here. 282 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: And he still considered not just this soil, but the 283 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: southern United States his native home because he could have 284 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: just at home, but he chose to add the qualified 285 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: native on top of it. So that shows just how 286 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: strongly he felt that is the place where he belonged, 287 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: is the place he loved, and how much of a 288 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: connection he had with that land. 289 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think it goes back to just 290 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 3: like Black Americans being like very nomadic people and being 291 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 3: like forced nomads, right, like we were taken from Africa. 292 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 3: But then you know, like we're here, we're born here, 293 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 3: we have family here, we make culture here, and so 294 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 3: at some point, for better or for worse, this is 295 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 3: like our home. And he even left and went to 296 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 3: Liberia and then came back to the United States. So 297 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 3: I feel a question people still have today like can 298 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 3: we go back or is this where we're supposed to 299 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 3: be at this point? 300 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: And there's the act of claiming that's happening in this 301 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: poem as well, which is also another thing that comes 302 00:16:59,040 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: up a lot. 303 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 2: So he went back to. 304 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: Liberia for a minute, there is evidence of that happening, 305 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: and then he came back, so there was something pulling 306 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,199 Speaker 1: him back. I'm not sure if anybody knows what happened there. Yea, 307 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: they have records of him getting on the ship and 308 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: going over there, and they have records of him coming back. 309 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: But the reason is why we don't have We don't 310 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: have diaries from this man that I know of that 311 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: tell us that. So that's unknown. Part two. But we 312 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: must work. So we've talked about this tug of war 313 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: happening in the consciousness. 314 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 2: Of black people. We've talked about how. 315 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: We see nature's beauty and duty only to itself, while 316 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: also realizing that we have been divorced from our connection 317 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: to it. The fear, alienation, and pain that we feel 318 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: and relation to nature sometimes shows up in nature poetry 319 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: in scenes where rich and wonderful landscapes are interrupted by 320 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 1: illustrations of or allusions to violence. But another thing that 321 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: black nature poetry helps me think about is labor in nature, 322 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: the kind that we must do because our survival depends 323 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: on it, or that we choose to do because it 324 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: fulfills us. Because I'm a twenty first century girl in 325 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: the US of A, I have relative privilege. I don't 326 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: have to toil the same way my ancestors did, just 327 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: to put food on their plates. And I have enough 328 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: money to pay for the labor I might otherwise do 329 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: if I had an economic status that didn't afford me 330 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 1: those luxuries. So as I enjoy nature, and as I 331 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: realize how much I don't know about it, I think 332 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 1: about how much environmental knowledge and practical experience my forebears 333 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: had to have. 334 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,439 Speaker 2: We have sown, we have reared, and we have grown. 335 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: In some nature poems, we get to see black people 336 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: loving the earth, using tender hands to touch soil and 337 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: water gardens, and using calloused hands to dig dirt and 338 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 1: harvest vegetables. It is difficult, but it's our duty. I 339 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: can think about how. In the Palm Sorrow Home by 340 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: author Margaret Walker, the speaker longs for southern land. She 341 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: says this, I want the cotton fields, tobacco and the cane. 342 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: I want to walk along with sacks of seed to 343 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: drop and fallow ground. And I can think about Anne Spencer, 344 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 1: a poet, activist, and gardener, and everything she said about feeling, seeing, 345 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 1: smelling and touching and speaking of Anne, there's the poem 346 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: to a Certain Lady in her Garden by Sterling A Brown, 347 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 1: which was for Anne Spencer. Here are a couple of 348 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: stanzas from that poem. Surely I think I shall remember this, 349 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: you and your old rough dress, bedaubed with clay, your 350 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: smudgy face, parading happiness, life's puzzles solved. Perhaps in turn, 351 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: you may, one time, while clipping bush tending vines, making 352 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: your brave sly mock at dastard days, laughed gently at 353 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 1: these trivial, truthful lines, and that will be sufficient for 354 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 1: my praise. 355 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 3: He really saw her. Yeah, to be seen in that 356 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 3: way lovely. 357 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I really enjoyed that. It felt so celebratory. I 358 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 1: was like, I want somebody to write a poem for me, 359 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: and a good one. I love the joy that I 360 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: feel like he felt in writing it, and the joy 361 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: that he saw in her, and not just in her gardening, 362 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: but also like in the messiness around her gardening. So 363 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: he appreciated all the flaws that came up in the 364 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: act of her like tending to the land. And I 365 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 1: think that also feels like an image that I seen 366 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: so many black women do, is like them working in 367 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: their gardens and kneeling down in their gardens and getting 368 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: their hands dirty or maybe wearing gloves. You know, it 369 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: can be nostalgic, but also very typical pastoral image that 370 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 1: is typical of a lot of other nature imagery in 371 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: nature poetry of people gardening and these blooms and flowers 372 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: and greenery. 373 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 2: It's very verdant. So I really liked that about this. 374 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 1: It felt very simple and wholesome, and it also felt 375 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: like kind of a meta narrative because we're sitting there 376 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: imagining and in her garden. But she often also wrote 377 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: about her garden herself in her poems that. 378 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 2: She did because she's also a poet, so. 379 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: It's like her in her element, is her in this 380 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: very free space. And there's another part of the poem 381 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: where Starling A. Brown does this juxtaposition between the street 382 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 1: that's right there by the home and the garden itself. 383 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 1: So he calls the streets things like dingy, and he 384 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: says the noise is futile or something like that, and 385 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 1: he says they're silly. So he's attaching these negative characterizations 386 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: to the human built environment that is literally right there 387 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: next to this act of creation, and it's taking in 388 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: her garden, And in my mind, I'm forming these images 389 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: of gray drab street right up against the greens and 390 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 1: all of the other colors of her garden, and it 391 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: makes it seem like it's this haven for her. 392 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 3: Lots of fun imagery. 393 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 2: Yes, lots of it. Part three Then rest a while, 394 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 2: so Kabi. 395 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 1: As we've made clear, black people have a complicated relationship 396 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: with nature, but black poets did write about their relationship 397 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: with nature outside of its wrong as a setting for 398 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: trauma and subjugation. Through Black nature poetry, we get to 399 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:11,360 Speaker 1: see how black people enjoy their environments. We get the romance, pleasure, 400 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: and pastoral softness that black poets were deemed incapable of. 401 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: For many years, people believed black folks were, as poet 402 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: Evi Shockley put it, uncomfortable in nature. Now, I don't 403 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: think nature poems by Black Americans can be completely divorced 404 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: from their social and historical context. And that's where I 405 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: think what you talked about earlier coming in Katie, how 406 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: there was that human element in George Horton's work how 407 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 1: it came into his even though his imagery. 408 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 2: Was all about nature. 409 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: It would be hard for a black nature poem to 410 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: be all leisurely and sublime or all tragic. But there 411 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,400 Speaker 1: is a middle ground where we lay in the bliss 412 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: and splendor and stay awhile take Harlem Renaissance poet Helene Johnson. 413 00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: She lived to be eighty eight, but she only published 414 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: poet Tree from the nineteen twenties to the mid nineteen thirties. 415 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 1: Poets James Weldon Johnson and Robert Frost praised her writing. 416 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty three, her last published poem, Let Me 417 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: Sing My Song, appeared in the journal Challenge. After this point, 418 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: she continued to write privately, but she stopped publishing poetry 419 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: by nineteen thirty five. Family life consumed her attention. Still, 420 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: more than half of her poems included nature themes. Here's 421 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: part of one poem titled Fulfillment. In it, she uses 422 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: examples from the natural world to express the simple joy 423 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: she finds in everyday life. To lean against a strong 424 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: tree's bosom, sentient and hushed before the silent prayer it 425 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: breathes to melt the still snow with my seething body, 426 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: and kiss the warm earth tremulous underneath, and even in death. 427 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,640 Speaker 1: Johnson planned to hold nature in high regard. Her association 428 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: of nature with humility, beauty, and freedom is evident in 429 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: her poem and vacation. Let me be buried in the rain, 430 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: in a deep, dripping wood, under the warm, wet breast 431 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: of earth, where once a gnarled tree stood, And paint 432 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: a picture on my tomb with dirt and a piece 433 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: of bow, of a girl and a boy beneath a 434 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,479 Speaker 1: round right moon, eating of love with an eager spoon, 435 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: and vowing an eager vow. And do not keep my 436 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: plot mode smooth and clean as a spinster's bed. But 437 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: let the weed, the flower, the tree, riotous, rampant, wild 438 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: and free grow high above my head. 439 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 3: I think this is my favorite poem. Oh why I 440 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 3: think it shows that kind of what I'm saying, Like 441 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 3: we are nature, and she put herself in it and 442 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 3: trying to like not make it bend to her. Because 443 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 3: when you think of cemeteries, they're really manicured. A lot 444 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 3: of them be called like Memorial garden, but it'll be 445 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 3: full of like fake flowers by the graves. But she 446 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 3: was just kind of saying, let me just be here 447 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 3: and let nature do what it do, and I'm gonna 448 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 3: do what I do, and we're just gonna be in 449 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 3: harmony because we are like one thing. That's what I 450 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 3: got from it. 451 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 2: M hm. Yeah. 452 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: Beneath is that feeling of returning. Yes, it's like this 453 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: is where I came from, this is what I'm going 454 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: back to. And it has environmentalist tones too, like it's 455 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: it feels like a green burial, like it's not much interference, 456 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: not much interjection of human made materials that she mentions 457 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: in here. She does mention wood interesting because you kind 458 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: of associate with with caskets, so I feel like it 459 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: calls that up. But that wood is about the forest itself. 460 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: She's talking about that and the use of that word. 461 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,719 Speaker 1: So she talks about using dirt and a piece of 462 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: bow rather than engraving and engraving in a tombstone. So 463 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: she purposefully seems like intentionally uses more natural words rather 464 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 1: than some other things. Yeah, so I'm imagining a very 465 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: wild place rather than a manicured place when I think 466 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: of this poem, and I think I really like this 467 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: one too. I think it is also my favorite of 468 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: the ones that we talked about today. And it feels like, 469 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: even though she only published work for such a short 470 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 1: period of time, like over the course of a decade, 471 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,120 Speaker 1: she packed so much into it. 472 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 2: And she also got published a lot in a very 473 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 2: short time. I'm like, girl, you go, but it's what 474 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 2: I get. Yeah, this is what we get. So yeah, 475 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 2: I really like that. 476 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: And one thing I think in general about Black nature 477 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: poetry and why I like it so much, is because 478 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: for me, it kind of replicates the feelings that I 479 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: have when I'm in nature, even when I'm not in 480 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,439 Speaker 1: nature when I'm reading them, So I am so frequently 481 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 1: overwhelmed and overcome by all the feelings that I have 482 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: that aw the fear, the wonder. I am wondering what 483 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 1: my place is in this soil, you know, I have 484 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,239 Speaker 1: all this history. If I'm in the South, in like 485 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,640 Speaker 1: a rural place, you know, I might be What's gonna 486 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: happen to me? If I'm sleeping in a tent at night, 487 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: I might be thinking about the animals that are around me, 488 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,479 Speaker 1: the creatures that are around me, or if there are 489 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: other people involved, there might be actual questions that I 490 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: have come from other people, like I've asked people to 491 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: camp with me and they're like, I'm kind of scared, Like, 492 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: what's gonna happen. There're gonna be a bunch of white 493 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: people there. And I've had to have that conversation with people. 494 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: It's like we're also in danger in the city, you know, 495 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: like I get it, this is something that you haven't 496 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: done before, but like, let's talk about this fear and 497 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: why it's coming up. So all of those feelings that 498 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: I have are multitudinous that I could go on about 499 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: forever and ever. My knowledge that I have of the 500 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: land and how I have still so much to learn 501 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 1: to learn. Every time I go out and do something 502 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: like hiking camp or go on a nature walk where 503 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: some scholars talking and I'm learning this thing about what 504 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: my ancestors did to be able to find their ways. 505 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 2: It's like so much that I'm. 506 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: Thinking about and that I'm holding even if I'm not 507 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: thinking about it, I'm just carrying it in my body. 508 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: And I think poems about nature, poetry by black people 509 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: help me tap into that without having to overthink it. 510 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: I don't need a think piece for it. I don't 511 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: need a four hundred page book of nonfiction essays for poems, 512 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: I can just sit with them and I can get 513 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: more of an understanding that other people before me were 514 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 1: thinking about it. The ways that they work through them 515 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: was by writing, and that's helping me today. And some 516 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: things were different, some things were the same. But I 517 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: just really appreciate how I can let go of so 518 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: much of the act of thinking when I'm reading poetry 519 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: about nature and tune into the act of feeling. That 520 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: feels very productive and trying to parse those feelings about nature. 521 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: So in honor of rest, renewal, and regeneration, I'll leave 522 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: everyone with the end of a poem by the first 523 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: writer we talked about today, George Horton. This one's called 524 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: on Spring inspiring months of youthful love. How oft we, 525 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: in a peaceful grow survey the flowery plume, or sit 526 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: beneath the sylvan shade where branches wave above the head, 527 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: and smile on every bloom exalted months when thou art gone, 528 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 1: may virtue then begin the dawn of an eternal spring. 529 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: May raptures kindle on my tongue and start a new 530 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: eternal song which ne'er shall cease to ring. 531 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 3: And now it's time for roll credits, the segment where 532 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 3: we give credit to a person, place, or thing that 533 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 3: we encountered during the week eves. Who are what would 534 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 3: you like to give credit to today? 535 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: I will stick with the black nature theme and I 536 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: like to give credit to the book A Darker Wilderness 537 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: Black Nature Writing from Soil to Stars edited by Aaron Sharky. 538 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: That is not a book of poetry, that is a 539 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: book of essays. But if you're interested in this kind 540 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: of thing of reading more about black nature and being 541 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: steeped in that world, then I would recommend to read cool. 542 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 3: I would like to give credit to honey mangoes. They 543 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 3: are in season and I just live for that, because 544 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 3: you know, the peach plant, the peach crop last year terrible, 545 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 3: But them honey mangoes, they gonna do it. And they're 546 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 3: only in season for a little bit in Georgia at least, 547 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 3: and I want to get a shout out at him 548 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 3: because they delicious. 549 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 2: Was it just the Georgia peach crop last year? 550 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 3: Or I think because you know Georgia does it and 551 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 3: it South Carolina. I think South Carolina do it more 552 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 3: than Georgia, even though we do peach date I'd be 553 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 3: seeing California peaches in the Georgia grocery store and they 554 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 3: just was not it year. But I think it was 555 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 3: something with, you know, the environment, Like I don't know 556 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 3: if they there's like a cold shock or something happened 557 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 3: where a good, good, good amount of it was just 558 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 3: destroyed and the ones that weren't were that good. 559 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, all my family members they swear by South Carolina 560 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: peaches over Georgia peaches. Like everybody knows that South Carolina 561 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: peaches are better than Georgia was. 562 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 2: I can see that. 563 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,239 Speaker 3: You know, I'm not gonna I'm not even gonna fight 564 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 3: nobody on that. Okay, you got a better peach. Okay, 565 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 3: you're the real peaches. 566 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 2: Go off. Rather be a peach than a pow meadow? 567 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 2: Is that they're the power meadow state? Yeah? What is that? 568 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 2: It's a tree? 569 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 3: Oh not even I don't know why. 570 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 1: I'm trying to cause beef between different species of plants. 571 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 2: And I'm really not shout out to palmeatos and peaches. 572 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 2: Can you eat a pal meadow? No you can't. That's 573 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 2: actually fair. 574 00:32:55,440 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: So hey, one provides sustenance, the other provided oxygen. 575 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 2: I guess true. But the p street also provides oxygen. 576 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Katie's clearly on the side. So everyone who 577 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: wants to stand up from pal Meadows, please let us know. 578 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 3: In the spirit of spring and rest, we are going 579 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 3: on our own spring break to get back to nature 580 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 3: to be creative, and we will be back June sixth 581 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 3: with all new episodes. What are some of the things 582 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 3: you're excited to explore during our spring break, Eves. 583 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: I am looking forward to get out into nature for real, 584 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: Like I think, I want to do a little bit 585 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,959 Speaker 1: more camping, and it's the time of year that's perfect 586 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: to do that. I mean, all times of year can 587 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: be perfect in different places for whatever your speed is. 588 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: But yeah, I want to do some more camping. I 589 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: haven't done enough this year. 590 00:33:54,000 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 3: I'm excited to be in them books, reading, and you 591 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 3: can look forward to episodes hearing from different archivists and 592 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 3: the funny, funny stories that they've found while in the archives. 593 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 3: We'll also be talking to a children's literature expert about 594 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 3: the lessons kids that passes down from us to our 595 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 3: little ones. 596 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:26,240 Speaker 1: And you can also look forward to episodes about black 597 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,760 Speaker 1: muses and the history of visual arts, and also crunk 598 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: music and snap music. As you know we hear are 599 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 1: Atlanta supremacists. So while we're on this break, you can 600 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: go back and listen to episodes of on Theme that 601 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 1: you haven't listened to before, or you can re listen 602 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: to episodes that you haven't heard already, or you can 603 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 1: just let people know about the show and y'all stay 604 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 1: subscribed because all of our lovely episodes are coming in June, 605 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: so make sure you're following us on social media. To 606 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 1: keep up with us, we are at on them Show 607 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 1: on Instagram. You could also keep up with us on 608 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 1: our website. Go and read show notes at on Theme 609 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: dot Show. 610 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 2: See y'all after the break. Bye. 611 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 1: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media. 612 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: This episode was written by Eves Jeffco and Katie Mitchell. 613 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,879 Speaker 1: It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison. Follow us 614 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 1: on Instagram at on Themeshow. You can also send us 615 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 1: an email at hello at on Theme dot Show. Head 616 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 1: to on Theme dot Show to check out the show 617 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,319 Speaker 1: notes for episodes. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the 618 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your 619 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 1: favorite shows.