1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: You've probably heard a lot by now about Amy Coney Barrett, 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: President Trump's Supreme Court nominee. Some of it true, most 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: of it probably false. How do you separate fact from fiction? Well, 4 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: luckily we're about to speak with someone who just sat 5 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: down with Judge Barrett about an hour ago. This is 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: Verdict with Ted Cruz. Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz. 7 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: I'm Michael Knowles, Senator. One thing I love so much 8 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: about this show is that I get the inside scoop 9 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: from you. I have been absolutely flooded with a ton 10 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: of information about Amy Coney Barrett by the press. I 11 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: assume most of it is complete nonsense. You just sat 12 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 1: down with the Supreme Court nominee. What can you tell us, Well, 13 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: she's very impressive. So I had a meeting this afternoon 14 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: at two o'clock at the Capitol. Normally, what happens with 15 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: Supreme Court nominees as they come around all us to 16 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: office and they come to each senator's office. This time, 17 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: because of COVID, they did a little bit differently. So 18 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: they did it in a big room in the Capital 19 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: called the Mansfield Room that they set up with the 20 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: chairs separated so we could socially distance, and so I 21 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: went by and visited with her. Went in, initially said hello, 22 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: did the elbow bump thing with masks, and then sat 23 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: down in the chairs, invited the reporters in, and I 24 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: shared a few thoughts in front of a bunch of 25 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: reporters who as is their want or screaming out questions. 26 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: And then we threw the reporters out of the room 27 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: and she and I visited and we talked probably forty 28 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: five minutes. And it's an impressive you know, I mean, 29 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: most of us by now have heard the facts, and 30 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: she's very impressive in terms of her record. Number one 31 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: in the class at Notre Dame Law School, law clerk 32 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: for Larry Silberman on the DC Circuit and then law 33 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: clerk for Scalio in the Supreme Court, law professor at 34 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: Notre Dame for twenty years, federal judge. Actually, you know 35 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: where I started talking with her. A lot of what 36 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 1: I asked about is how her family was doing that 37 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: this has been you know, she's got seven kids and 38 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: including a number of kids who are young kids, and 39 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: this process is brutal, and you know, I shared with her, 40 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: being a dad, I've been through some pretty tough battles 41 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: with little kids. Our girls are nine and twelve, and 42 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 1: they've seen all the nasty things said and it's hard 43 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 1: on them. So, I mean, I just tried to visit 44 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: with her a little bit about the family aspect of 45 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: it and talk with her. So she clerked at the 46 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: Supreme Court the year after I did, and she's very 47 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 1: good friends with some very close friends of mine who 48 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: are both professors at Notre Dame Law School. So we 49 00:02:55,880 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: visited about some of the challenges of this process, and 50 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: I asked her some questions in terms of her approach, 51 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: how she approaches cases, how she approaches being a judge. 52 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 1: But I also try to just share with her my 53 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: thoughts and advice in terms of approaching this hearing. It's 54 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: a pretty daunting thing to be facing a hearing where, 55 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: you know, I think Senate Democrats are going to come 56 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,119 Speaker 1: after her really hard. Oh, they've more or less promised 57 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,239 Speaker 1: it already. I mean, we saw what happened to Brett Kevin. 58 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 1: They're basically promising more than that. So I think it's 59 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 1: almost a guarantee that it's going to be brutal. What 60 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: advice did you give Judge Barrett, Well, my advice to 61 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: her is actually the advice I've given a lot of 62 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: nominees or coming before hearings, which which is be boring. 63 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: You don't want to make news. You don't want to 64 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: you want to calmly answer the senator's questions. Right now, 65 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: the Senate Democrats haven't really found any attacks. They're sticking, 66 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: and so part of their strategy is going to be 67 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: to try to provoke her to say something foolish. I 68 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: don't think she's going to. This is a very poised, 69 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: very mature, experienced judge and experienced professor. One of the 70 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: things I told her is, I said, listen, to be honest, 71 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: none of the Senate Democrats are nearly as intimidating as 72 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: as Scalia was. She and she worked for Scalia, knew 73 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,559 Speaker 1: him well. We talked a bit about Scalia. I asked 74 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: her her thoughts on Scalia, what he did right, when 75 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: we did, what he did wrong? You know. I talked 76 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: about her approach to questions. I tried to walk through 77 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:38,239 Speaker 1: some of the natural pitfall so the reporters are all asking. 78 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: For example, they asked me, is she going to recuse 79 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 1: herself if there are any election related disputes? Why would 80 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 1: she even recuse herself because she's a Trump nominee. Shouldn't 81 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: Kavin or recuse himself then, because it's the Democratic talking points, 82 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: So all the reporters are repeating it, and I said, no, 83 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 1: of course she wouldn't. I said, she wouldn't recuse herself 84 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: any more than Elena Kagan and Sonya Sotomayora would. They 85 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: were both appointed by during the Obama Biden administration. Does 86 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: the fact that Biden was vice president mean they should 87 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: recuse themselves? Of course not. I actually afterwards explained to reporters. 88 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: I said, look, all nine justices were appointed by presidents, 89 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 1: all are virtually all of them have had to adjudicate 90 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: cases in which the president or the administration that appointed 91 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: them was a party before them may have had one 92 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: particular side or another, and that that's just part of 93 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: being a judge. I mean, there's a standard legal standard 94 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 1: for recusal, but the fact that the president or the 95 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 1: Senate that appointed or confirmed you is a party is 96 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: not a recognized standard for recusals. So that question, they 97 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: asked me, I answered it, she'll she'll have to address 98 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 1: that at the hearing, and I'm confident she'll be able to, 99 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: you know, one thing I talked with her about. Also, 100 00:05:55,680 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: there's a question for every judicial nominee about what do 101 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: you say about precedent. So, for example, a question that 102 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: gets asked if every judicial nominee was Brown versus Board 103 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: of Education correctly decided Brown is the seminal case that 104 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 1: overruled Plessy against Ferguson and that ruled that schools had 105 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: to be desegregated, that we had to have integrated public schools. 106 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: Plessy had was an abomination. It had ruled that separate 107 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: but equal was acceptable under the equal Protection clause to 108 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 1: the Constitution. And it's interesting if you look at particular 109 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: Trump nominees, that question gets asked, if not to every nominee, 110 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: just about every nominee, and some of them answer it, 111 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: some of them don't. Those who answer it, so they're 112 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: downsides to both if you don't answer, and I've seen 113 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: some of the the judicial nominees say, well, I'm not going 114 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 1: to share my thoughts on any pending case or any 115 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: case that might come before the court. The problem is 116 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: if you don't answer it, it lets the Democrats demagogue 117 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: you don't even believe in Brown? What kind of crazy 118 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 1: radical are you? And you can't say that you you 119 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: don't want to comment on an issue that will come 120 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: before the court, because Brown versus Bore dramatic Jason obviously 121 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: already came before the court well, and the Brown question 122 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: is really all a setup to get at if you 123 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: answer it and say you agree with with with Brown, 124 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: the next question where this is headed is all right, 125 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: what about Row versus Wade? What about Heller versus District 126 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: of Columbia? What about Citizens United? And it's the slippery 127 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: slope that if you're willing to answer question about one case, 128 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: as I said, judicial nominees have taken it both ways. 129 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: They've refused to answer any or some have said, yes, 130 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: Brown was rightly decided. Personally my view on it, It 131 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: is the right way to answer to say, of course 132 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: Brown was rightly decided. Nobody disputes that there's no likelihood 133 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: of litigation on it. There is no active side before 134 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: the court challenge that, And that is quite different from 135 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: the other examples I gave where there is litigation every 136 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: term that potentially touches on those issues. And so you know, 137 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: the reporters afterwards all rushed up to me and they said, okay, 138 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: did did she make any commitments? To you on how 139 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: she would rule on anything, And I was like, well, no, 140 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: of course, not that that would be inappropriate for me 141 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: to ask, and it would be even more inappropriate for 142 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: her to answer me. I wouldn't want to judge who 143 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 1: would make a commitment. I'm going to rule X or 144 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: Y way. Please give me your vote, and I promise 145 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: you all rule this way. That's that's not how this 146 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: is supposed to go. But you know what, that's how 147 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: democrats approach it. I mean they are they treat the 148 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: chord as an arm of politics. I'm looking for a 149 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: justice who will follow the law and the Constitution. And 150 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: I think what I was most impressed with sitting down 151 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 1: with her was her calmness and demeanor. I mean, it's 152 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: been you know, she had a pretty quiet life as 153 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: a law professor and a pellet judge, and suddenly she's 154 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: in the middle of this maelstrom. Where where this this 155 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,839 Speaker 1: political attack machine. I actually advised her, I said, look, 156 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,439 Speaker 1: they're trying to dig of everything they can to attack you. 157 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: They're looking right now for someone who went to third 158 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: grade with you that doesn't like you, and so just 159 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:23,959 Speaker 1: be aware and be ready, and just be calm and 160 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: deal with whatever. Unfortunately, and I don't know if you remember, 161 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: there was a guy, Anthony Lake who was nominated to 162 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: a position under Bill Clinton, not a judicial position, but 163 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,959 Speaker 1: a position in the executive and he went through a 164 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: really brutal confirmation and he described the confirmation process afterwards. 165 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,079 Speaker 1: He said it is nasty and brutish without being short, 166 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: which is of course you will appreciate it as a 167 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: classically educated man. That's a reference to Thomas Hobbes Leviathan 168 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 1: who described Hobbes described the state of nature as nasty, brutish, 169 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: and short without government stepping in to protect people's rights, 170 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 1: and so that was he was making a pun on that. Well, Senator, 171 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:13,319 Speaker 1: I think that's excellent advice for the judge. I'm glad 172 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: that you got to spend that much time with her. 173 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: But you mentioned that there's something strange about this particular 174 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: confirmation process because of COVID. Something else is strange too, 175 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: which is that typically the judges meet with a whole 176 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: lot of senators, ideally all of the senators before they 177 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:33,319 Speaker 1: go and testify. This time, there are a number of 178 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: Senate Democrats who are refusing to meet with Judge Barrett 179 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: because they're saying that she's an illegitimate nominee. Well, and 180 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 1: it's it's really bizarre. I don't know if any precedent 181 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: that that's happened. Quite a few Democrats have said they're 182 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 1: not going to talk to her, they're not going to 183 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: meet her. There've been a handful who are willing to 184 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: meet with her. So I credit them with not making 185 00:10:53,120 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: the entire process of farce. But it shows. Look the 186 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: Democratic base a week ago, even before this vacancy, that 187 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: they were enraged that they had they were furious. They 188 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 1: hate Trump. Yeah, when this vacancy happens, you know, it's 189 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: it's it's like, to quote the movie spinal Taps, suddenly 190 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: it goes to eleven. Yeah, I mean it's it's they're 191 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: out of their minds. And so I think Democrats are 192 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: in a hard position because they don't really have any 193 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: criticisms that are are sticking. They tried to paint her 194 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: as sort of a kooky religious person. I mean, they 195 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: were these stories saying that like she's the inspiration for 196 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: the Handmaid's Tale. I don't know if you saw a 197 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 1: senator the article that came out that said the group 198 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: that Amy Barrett is a member of is the inspiration 199 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: for the Handsmaid's Tale. And then you look at the 200 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: bottom of the article and there's a correction and it says, oh, 201 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: actually it was a different group, but the rest of 202 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: the article is true. You say, well, that's the whole article. 203 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: It's kind of a bizarre last I checked. Having a 204 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: mom of seven who is a renowned law professor and 205 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: federal judge it about to be Supreme Court justice, is 206 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: not exactly a model for female subjugation. Like it's it's 207 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 1: a bizarre narrative of Okay, I haven't seen the show, 208 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 1: but that sure doesn't seem to be what it's about 209 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: from what little I've seen I get, although judges do 210 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 1: wear robes, so in that respect, it's entirely accurate. That's 211 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: what they were talking about. You know, there was another 212 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: attack lobbed against her by some other prominent leftists on 213 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: Twitter and in other places, saying that there's no way 214 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: that she could have been an attentive mother because she's 215 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: had this wonderful career. And you say, gosh, I can't 216 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: believe feminists are now telling women they can't have it all, 217 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: you know, they can't work that Those attacks seem to 218 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: have been really ill advised, the attacks on her family, 219 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: the attacks on her religion. I know that Dick Durbin, 220 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: who is the second most powerful Democrat in the Senate 221 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: Senate Minority Whip, he went on George Stephanopolis's show just 222 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: a few days ago and he said that the Senate 223 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: Democrat can slow down the process, but they cannot stop 224 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: the confirmation of Amy Coney Barrett. Why is he coming 225 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: out now and just more or less admitting defeat. I 226 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:14,079 Speaker 1: don't remember the Democrats doing that during the Kavanaugh hearings. Well. 227 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: I think he sees a mismatch between what their base 228 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: is demanding and what they can do. I believe we've 229 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:24,319 Speaker 1: got the votes. Barring some shocking revelation that no one's anticipating, 230 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,079 Speaker 1: I think we will have the votes to confirm Judge Barrett. 231 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: And I think it'll happen by the end of the month. 232 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: It'll happen before election day, which which I think is 233 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: really important. Durban can count count noses. He can see 234 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: that they don't have the votes. I think he's probably 235 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: politically worried that if their base gets totally ginned up 236 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: and demands you must stop this, they don't. If we 237 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: hold onto the votes, there's not anything they can do 238 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: to stop it, and so I think he's trying to 239 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: calibrate expectations. Now that being said, I fully expect them 240 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: to try and engage in a fishing expedition, and I 241 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: think we'll see some procedural tools to try to delay it, 242 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: to force unnecessary votes, but procedurally, and I'm spending a 243 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,439 Speaker 1: lot of time talking with with MITCHA. McConnell, the Majority leader, 244 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: with the Senate lawyers, with my lawyers, to think through 245 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: all the procedural tools they can they can try to 246 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: do to delay this. But the long and short of 247 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: it is, if the majority stays stays solid and committed 248 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: to moving forward on this nomination, we will get it done. 249 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: And I think we will well. Senator. I think one 250 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: of the reasons that Dick Durban and the Democrats basically 251 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: are throwing in the towel here and they want the 252 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: confirmation process to be shorter is because the longer it 253 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: drags on, the more copies of your new book that 254 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: you're going to sell. One vote away. Obviously, we currently 255 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: have eight justices on the Supreme Court. We have that 256 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: one vacancy, so that one seat, that ninth seat could 257 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: be the swing vote that could determine how cases go. 258 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: And just coincidentally or providentially, you've got a book that 259 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: has just come out on this topic. Yeah, well that's right. 260 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: So this is Thursday, Tuesday afternoon that we're recording this. 261 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: The debate's going to be tonight, so we're not going 262 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: to talk about the debate on this podcast. It'll come 263 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: out tomorrow, but we'll do a pod on the debate. 264 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: So I imagine there'll be some fireworks this evening at 265 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: the debate. But today Tuesday, the book came out, and 266 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: here it is right now. It's actually we've been talking 267 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: about it for a while, but it's it's out. It's 268 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: we accelerated. It was actually due to come out next week, 269 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: and given the nomination, given that this fight is front 270 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: and center, we accelerated it to move it earlier. Now. 271 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: As you know, I wrote this book this spring and 272 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: summer during the COVID lockdown. I was working from home, 273 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: and so I in my living room and sat down 274 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: at the computer and wrote it. And it's designed to 275 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: do really a deep dive into the Supreme Court into 276 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: what's going on. Every chapter is on a different constitutional 277 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: right and and to tell the inside story of what's 278 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: happening at the Court. And obviously I didn't know we'd 279 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: be in the middle of this fight right now. I 280 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: anticipated the book coming out in the fall, going into 281 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: the presidential election, because a huge issue in the election 282 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: is the Supreme Court and what kind of nominees we're 283 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: going to have. Well, this is actually the point, Senator 284 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: that I want to hit on because it's it's the 285 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: thing that was most striking to me about the book's release. 286 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: You know, publishers always want to release books when they're 287 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: going to sell the most copies. That's obvious, and it's 288 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: so interesting to me that during a presidential election they 289 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: slated a book about the Court. And this has been 290 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: cropping up in every presidential election in my lifetime, but 291 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: it seems increasingly so that the Court seems to become 292 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:46,479 Speaker 1: this central issue almost and often it is of the campaign. 293 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: Obviously that's true this stump, but it was true in 294 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen as well. It was so it ended up 295 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: being the single biggest reason that I voted for Donald Trump, 296 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: and one of the things I talk about at in 297 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: the introduction. So the first chapter of the book goes 298 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: back through some of the details of twenty sixteen. And 299 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: we had a rollercoaster presidential campaign, to put it mildly, 300 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: And you know, Trump and I had a good relationship, 301 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: and then we beat the living daylights out of each other. 302 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: And my campaign won a bunch of states, but we 303 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: didn't prevail. Trump prevailed, and I for the first time 304 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: really tell the story about the convention in Cleveland, which 305 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: you'll recall. The speech I gave there prompted booing and 306 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: angry reactions because I didn't endorse Trump at the time. 307 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: I actually the language I used in that speech was 308 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: almost word for word the language Ronald Reagan used about 309 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: Gerald Ford when Ford had just beaten him in the primary. 310 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 1: And it was almost word for word the language that 311 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: Ted Kennedy used about Jimmy Carter when Jimmy Carter had 312 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,199 Speaker 1: just beaten him in the primary. Neither one of them 313 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: endorsed the person who had prevailed. Rather, they laid out 314 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: a vision they wanted the candidate to follow, And I 315 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 1: was really trying to lay out a vision for Trump. 316 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: At the time, it was not clear to me and 317 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,919 Speaker 1: clear to many others, whether Trump would governors as a conservative, 318 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 1: whether he would continue to campaign as a conservative, and 319 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: so what I tried to do in the speech was 320 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 1: to say, we should vote for candidates we can trust 321 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: to defend freedom and defend the Constitution. And what I 322 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 1: described in the first chapter of the book is much 323 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: to my pleasant surprise, Trump continued campaigning as a conservative 324 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 1: after he won the nomination. Many Republicans moved to the 325 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: middle or the left after they win the nomination. Trump 326 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 1: did not do that. And when I decided to endorse him, 327 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 1: which was in September of twenty sixteen, the Supreme Court 328 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: was front and center in terms of why. And so 329 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: I negotiated with a Trump campaign and there was an 330 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: explicit quit pro quo. There was an explicit exchange we 331 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: had that that there were two conditions that I wanted. 332 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: Number One, you remember Trump had put out a list 333 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: of eleven potential judges in the heat of the campaign, 334 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: but the list was not exclusive. So he said at 335 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: the time, these eleven are the kinds of judges I 336 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: will appoint or anybody else on planet Earth. Right, I 337 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 1: elander as someone like so and somebody could be could 338 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 1: be anybody else. And so I was very concerned about that. 339 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: I wanted greater certainty the Scala of vacancy was front 340 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: and center, and so so the conditions that I negotiated 341 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: with a Trump team or that he put out an 342 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: explicit list and bind himself to it, explicitly commit these 343 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: names and only these names will be the pool that 344 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: that that we will use, and also that he add 345 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: centator Mike Lead to the list. I still think Mike 346 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,400 Speaker 1: Lee would be the best nominee. Had I won Mike 347 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 1: Lee as who I would have nominated U and the 348 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: Trump campaign agreed to both. So they put out a 349 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: new list. It's when it went from eleven to twenty one. 350 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: They added ten names. Mike Lee was one of them, 351 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: and they put out in writing, these twenty one are 352 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 1: the only people from whom Scalia's choice will come. They 353 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 1: put it out and within minutes I endorse. So we 354 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: coordinated those two announcements simultaneously. I think there was a 355 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 1: lot of information and misinformation going around at the time. 356 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: You were criticized because you did not come out and 357 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 1: explicitly endorse at the convention. Yeah, and we were told 358 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: you didn't endorse at the convention like Ronald Reagan endorsed 359 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: Gerald Ford, and I guess in the popular imagination I thought, 360 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: so I thought Reagan had endorsed Ford. Then you look 361 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: through the stage and you say he didn't do it. 362 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: And so at that time it was being covered as 363 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: though this was a huge insult to Trump and it 364 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: was totally breaking with precedent. But then what you're saying 365 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: is behind the scenes, you're talking to the campaign and 366 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: you're saying, look, I'm willing to endorse as long as 367 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: you agree to certain political promises. Here about political meaning, 368 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 1: you're going to govern as a conservative and all of it. 369 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 1: I mean, this is probably the most interesting thing of all, 370 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: all of it's about the court. The book begins the 371 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: day Scalia died, which happened to be the day of 372 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: the South Carolina presidential debate in twenty sixteen. So I 373 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: was actually huddled in a conference room prepping for the 374 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 1: debate and my body guy comes in and interrupts us 375 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: and says, hey, hey, you heard about the thing, and 376 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: we're like, what thing? And he goes the Scalia thing. 377 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: What Scalia thing? Oh, no, it was, Oh he died, 378 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: And we're just like what and what had happened? So 379 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: Scalia was a hunting lodge in West Texas, and the 380 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: sheriff's office found him dead in his bed, and so 381 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: the West Texas sheriff had called me and had called 382 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 1: John Cordon, So the two Texas Senators, we both got 383 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: calls from the sheriff saying we just found Justice Scalia dead. 384 00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: So when I found out about it, it was a 385 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 1: couple hours before the news broke, and so that totally 386 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,959 Speaker 1: our debate preparation all shifted over to what to do 387 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: about the scully of vacancy. And I wrote a statement 388 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: calling on the Senate to keep this seat open, not 389 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: to consider a nominee, and let the voters decide. And 390 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: the instant the news broke publicly, I didn't want to 391 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: break the news, but once it was public, I put 392 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: the statement out instantaneously, and you may remember shortly thereafter 393 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: a number of other Republicans followed suit, Mitch McConnell, Chuck Grassley, 394 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: And one of the things I describe in the book 395 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 1: is that Mitch McConnell's former chief of staff later told 396 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: a New York Times reporter that one of the reasons 397 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: Mitch jumped out early and said we're not going to 398 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: take up this nominee is he knew at the debate 399 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: that evening, I would call for keeping the seat open, 400 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: and he didn't want to be seen as following my lead, 401 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 1: so he so my view is, look, I don't care 402 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 1: why you did it. If you did the right thing, 403 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: great hallelujah. I will cheer you on and sing your praises, 404 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: of course, but it's remarkable we held the conference together 405 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: in sixteen, and filling that scalia vacancy then became for 406 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: me the number one reason I voted for Trump over Hillary, 407 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: and I think it's the reason I got elected. I 408 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: think there are many many more Americans like me that 409 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: that was the biggest, single reason to vote for him. 410 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: It was an earth shattering moment when Justice Scalia died. 411 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: I remember, I think it was on Valentine's Day, where 412 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 1: it was near Valentine's Day and I was in February. 413 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: It was in February, so sometimes we're in there. I 414 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 1: just remember I was going to go out to a 415 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 1: romantic dinner with my wife, and right before we went out, 416 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: I got the news, and it really put the kabbash 417 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:42,360 Speaker 1: on the romantic flavor of the evening because it occurred 418 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 1: to me this was the most significant thing that could 419 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: happen in that presidential race. And I also had absolutely 420 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 1: no faith that the Senate was going to be able 421 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: to hold that seat open. Very interesting here behind the scenes, 422 00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: what was going on. And it's almost eerie that a 423 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: similar situation, obviously with a justice from the other side 424 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: of the political spectrum, but that a totally analogous situation 425 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: is happening again this time around. It's really the stakes 426 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: of the election. And I will say on this book, 427 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: you know, I put a lot of time into this book, 428 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: and it really tries to tell what's going on. You 429 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: not to be a lawyer to enjoy this book. I 430 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: wrote it actually in the same spirit as we do 431 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: the Verdict podcast, trying to assess complicated issues, issues that matter, 432 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: but trying to explain them, giving the inside insight. And 433 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: and and so let me just say that to everyone 434 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: who who has so regularly listened to this podcast, downloaded 435 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: this podcast, I want to ask you to please go 436 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: go to Amazon, go to Barnes and Noble, go anywhere 437 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,920 Speaker 1: you get books, but but buy a copy of this book. 438 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: It is it's significant. The information in this book I 439 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: think will be really helpful to you as you're talking 440 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: to your friends right now about this nomination, about the 441 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: fight over Judge Barrett, about the fight at the Supreme Court, 442 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: about the election in twenty twenty. I think the book 443 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: will argue you with information that most people don't know. 444 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,440 Speaker 1: Most people don't realize just how broad the implications are 445 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: for the Supreme Court and the presidential election, and so 446 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: I think this book will be a really helpful tool 447 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 1: and it will be really beneficial. Well, Senator, I intend 448 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: no flattery here. This is totally unprompted, but I am 449 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: reading the book right now and I'm really enjoying it. 450 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: I recommend people buy it, mostly because it's a real book. 451 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: It's an actual book that gives you information. And I 452 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: hate to criticize, you know, some of your colleagues and 453 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: other politicians, but usually politician books or something to the 454 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: effect of the Courage to be American, the dreams and 455 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,040 Speaker 1: hopes of saluting American and America, and it's just like 456 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,120 Speaker 1: they're not that great, and this one is really great 457 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: because you're you're focusing on pivotal cases that it really 458 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: changed the course of history. And coincidentally, there cases that 459 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: you have a personal insight into. So just totally unsolicited plug, 460 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: I'm really enjoying it. And by the way, if you 461 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: get a chance to go on Amazon and put a 462 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: positive review. We've got some lefties going on right now 463 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: that are that are blasting it, which is you know 464 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 1: what they do. But it would be nice to read 465 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: the book first and then put a positive review. But 466 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: that would be helpful if if if you like it, 467 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: that's right. I swiped a copy, obviously from the Verdict studio. 468 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: I swiped the single copy. But now that I'm reading 469 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:36,959 Speaker 1: it and I know it's a good book, I would 470 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: pay for it. You know, I'm a physical conservative, so 471 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: I would swipe it, but I would I would pay 472 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: for it and encourage all the other other people who 473 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: are listening right now. I encourage you to read it 474 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: as well. We've got to get to a little bit 475 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,400 Speaker 1: of nailbag. Speaking of those people who are listening right now, 476 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: we have some excellent questions this week. First one is 477 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: from John. Do you think the Supreme Court hearings will 478 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,679 Speaker 1: help Trump selectual chances like the Kavanaugh hearings did, or 479 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 1: do you think it could backfire and help the Democrats. 480 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: I think it will help Trump significantly. I think it 481 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 1: will energize both sidespaces so the left is even more 482 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: ticked off than they were before. But to be honest, 483 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 1: they were already so mad that the left is showing 484 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: up they hate Trump. They're going to show up even angrier. 485 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,679 Speaker 1: But I don't think it moves the needle substantially on 486 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: the left because they were already maxed out. On the right. 487 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,360 Speaker 1: I think it energizes, just like the Kavanaugh hearings did. 488 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: I think it energizes conservatives. It energizes people who care 489 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 1: about the Constitution. I also think the Democrats are going 490 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: to overplay their hands. I think they're going to be jerks. 491 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 1: I think they're going to unfortunately mistreat Judge Barrett, and 492 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,120 Speaker 1: I think that has a real risk of backfiring to them. 493 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: I think their base is demanding of the Democrats that 494 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: they behave in a way that frankly, is not a 495 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: great way to behave just just days or weeks before 496 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: an election. Yeah, I think that's right. I think the 497 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,199 Speaker 1: smarter Democrats, the ones with the cool our heads, are saying, guys, 498 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: cut it out with the attacks on the religion and 499 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: the family. But unfortunately, unfortunately for them, I guess fortunately 500 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 1: for Republicans, they haven't been resisting it. Very much. Next question, 501 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: I kid you not. This is the Twitter user name 502 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: comes from verdict Sir Noels Cbe. I guess that's Commander 503 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: of the British Empire. Not my account, that's not my 504 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: pier Delecto account, but it is someone who I imagine 505 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: listens to the show asks hypothetically, what would happen if 506 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: we inaugurated the winner of the election and then we 507 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,120 Speaker 1: found mail in ballots that would have made the other 508 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: person win instead? This person's probably alluding to Recently there 509 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: have been stories of boxes of ballots being found in 510 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: ditches or mislabeled in other rooms. What happens if we 511 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: a few months after the election find out that the 512 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: wrong guy won. So at some point the election is 513 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: final and you can undo it. And once the electors 514 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: have cast their ballots, if there's uncertainty under the constitution, 515 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: it goes to the House and Senate. How selects the president. 516 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: The Senate selects the vice president. Once you have inauguration, 517 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: Once you have the president sworn in and the vice 518 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: president sworn in. If we've never seen the election challenged 519 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: after the facts, so we would truly be in uncharted territory. 520 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: We've seen disputed elections that have gone up to inauguration 521 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:27,479 Speaker 1: day but not afterwards. Look, the remedy at that point 522 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: could conceivably be impeachment, although even impeachment doesn't allow a 523 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: mechanism for putting the other party in and so at 524 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: some point there is finality and a decision, even if 525 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: after the fact someone raises another charge. That being said, 526 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: we could get into some of this chaos this election. 527 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: I'm really worried we will have an extended period of 528 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: litigation and uncertainty after election day. Next question on that 529 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: happy note, the constitutional crisis we're moving into. This is 530 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: from sl This is totally off topic from what we've 531 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: been talking about, but I think a lot of people 532 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 1: are curious about it. Can someone please explain the New 533 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: York Times Trump taxpiece to an elementary school aged child, 534 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: because apparently it's too complicated for seemingly educated adults to understand. 535 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,239 Speaker 1: Do you have a sort of top level take on 536 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: this of what it's all supposed to mean or if 537 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: we're all supposed to care. So it's actually hard to 538 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: know the facts because of what the New York Times 539 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: has done. Yeah, they allege they have as tax returns, 540 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: but they haven't actually released the underlying documents, so we 541 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: don't know what the tax returns say. All we have 542 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: is what The New York Times characterizes them as saying. 543 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: I don't think it's crazy to say that The Times 544 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: is not an impartial arbiter. Diplomatically put, they're not neutral 545 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: on what they think about Trump. We do know that 546 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: whoever gave them to The Times likely committed a crime, 547 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: likely committed a federal crime of giving without authorization someone 548 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: else's tax returns. But so the sort of headline news 549 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: of Trump only paid seven hundred and fifty dollars taxes 550 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: in I guess twenty sixteen or seventeen. It's difficult to 551 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: tell without knowing the rest of the tax returns. I mean, 552 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: you often have big sophisticated business people that if you 553 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: have losses, you can carry losses over to another year. 554 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: If you're in the real estate business, you're taking depreciation. 555 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: You know, Amazon has years when it didn't pay any 556 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: taxes at all. That are you know, multi billion dollar corporations. 557 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: You know. I actually went yesterday on The View and 558 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: the View, by the way, pretty surreal place to to 559 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 1: to find a conservative Republican, But they were truly foaming 560 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: at the mouth over the tax issue, and I said, listen, 561 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 1: it's it's actually unfortunately a feature of our tax code 562 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: that that people who are very, very wealthy time has 563 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: managed to pay very little in taxes through using legal 564 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: mechanisms to reduce their tax exposure. And it's why I'm 565 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: such a big proponent of a flat tax. A simple 566 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: flat tax where everyone pays ten percent, doesn't matter if 567 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: you're rich or poor, who you are, it's even in 568 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: fair and simple. And so I sort of laughed and said, 569 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: I guess suddenly the New York Times is in favor 570 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: of a flat tax. So that's that's great progress, because 571 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: you know, there are a whole lot of rich people 572 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 1: that pay a much lower percentage taxes than you or I. 573 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: Do you know a senator in a year of wonders 574 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: and all the craziness and the lockdowns, I think the 575 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: New York Times endorsing the flat tax. I think that's 576 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: the biggest one final question before I let you go 577 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: from Sandman, why is the Senate waiting until October twelfth 578 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: to bring about the ACB hearings? Why not just do 579 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: it this week when you know the Democrats will stop 580 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: at nothing to delay, delay, delay, You know, that's a 581 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: fair question, and that was ultimately a decision for Lindsey Graham, 582 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: the chairman of the committee. And the reasoning he laid 583 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: out to us is that historically hearings of commenced typically 584 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: ten days to two weeks after the announcement, sometimes later. 585 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: But what he wanted to do is as much as possible, 586 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 1: follow the precedent so that the Democrats are going to 587 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: scream everything's unfair anyway. But I think what he was 588 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: trying to do is follow the historical precedent so that 589 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 1: so that it could be rightly said that a full, 590 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 1: unfair process has been given here, a thorough examination is occurring, 591 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: and so and I think that's reasonable. What well we 592 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: talked about it. We had the Senate Judiciary Committee members 593 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: meet privately, I guess last week talking about the expected 594 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: timing and the concern I raised. I raised one concern. 595 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: I said, listen, I'm fine with it if if we 596 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: start on the twelfth, if if if we are absolutely 597 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: certain we can get the nomination completed before election day, 598 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: because the Democrats whole strategy is delayed after election day 599 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: and then have the chaos end up killing the nomination, 600 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: and so I press the lawyers pretty hard. For example, 601 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: one of the things that that Pelosi and the Democrats 602 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:14,400 Speaker 1: are talking about doing is impeaching the president again, and 603 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 1: it would be a total abuse of powers. As you know, 604 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: as Verdict started by discussing at great length the test 605 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 1: for impeachment. The standard for impeachment is high crimes or misdemeanors. Well, 606 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: it ain't complicated that nominating a Supreme Court justice is 607 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 1: not a high crime or misdemeanor. But it's possible that 608 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: we'll see congressional Democrats try to use impeachment as a 609 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: tool for delay. If they do that, the advice we've 610 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:48,479 Speaker 1: gotten from the Senate parliamentary experts is that the majority 611 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,760 Speaker 1: that we can set that aside, that it won't delay 612 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: the confirmation. That if they want to, they can force 613 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 1: us to sit on the floor and cast a number 614 00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 1: of votes. I mean, so they can waste a little 615 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 1: bit of time, but they don't have the ability. And 616 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: so given that that we can get it done before 617 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: election day, I think it was reasonable to say will 618 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: follow a comparable period of time as has been done before. 619 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: Of course, it doesn't matter if the confirmation is on 620 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: November two. For that matter, it could be on the 621 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,720 Speaker 1: morning of November third, as long as it just happens 622 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 1: before the election. That has me feeling pretty good. I 623 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 1: have to tell you. Usually we end these shows i'm 624 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 1: kind of a down note. Things haven't been going that 625 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: great necessarily in the country, but there is a little 626 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,760 Speaker 1: ray of hope. And of course we'll have the debate tonight, 627 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 1: so I'll have lots more to talk about tomorrow. And 628 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 1: until then, Senator I will be reading more of your 629 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 1: book One Vote Away. I'm Michael Knowles. This is Verdict 630 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:58,320 Speaker 1: with Ted Cruz. This episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz 631 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: is being brought to you by Jobs, Freedom and Security Pack, 632 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: a political action committee dedicated to supporting conservative causes, organizations, 633 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: and candidates across the country. In twenty twenty two, Jobs 634 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: Freedom and Security Pack plans to donate to conservative candidates 635 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 1: running for Congress and help the Republican Party across the nation.