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Speaker 1: Heads up.

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Speaker 2: We'll be talking about mental health challenges and suicidal ideation

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Speaker 2: in today's episode.

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Speaker 1: Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to another episode of Wide Open with Ashland Harris.

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Speaker 2: I am so excited for this week. Alok, Welcome to

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Speaker 2: the podcast. It's so wonderful to have you. I find

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Speaker 2: you so deeply insightful, creative. I mean, you're a fashion icon, clearly,

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Speaker 2: every room you walk into you turn heads. But you're

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Speaker 2: so articulate when it comes to your activism, your performance,

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Speaker 2: like everything you do and who you are and how

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Speaker 2: you show up is very very inspiring to me.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to

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Speaker 3: be here.

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Speaker 1: And there's so much to talk about.

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Speaker 2: There's so much to unpack, but I do think it's

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Speaker 2: important to really start from the beginning.

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Speaker 1: And you know, a lot of us queer folks, we have.

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Speaker 2: Interesting stories on how everything came to light. And I

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Speaker 2: would love to really dive into your becoming in a

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Speaker 2: lot of ways because I've I did such a deep

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Speaker 2: dive into your work and some of the things that

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Speaker 2: you stand for, and you say, hit me so deep

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Speaker 2: and it's so beautiful, and I really want to unpack that. However,

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Speaker 2: I don't think we can really unpack it until we

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Speaker 2: talk about your upbringing in Texas and what was that

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Speaker 2: like for you, growing up in a place that maybe

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Speaker 2: didn't have much representation.

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Speaker 3: I would say being Texan is my most exotic identity.

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Speaker 3: Every time I fly back home, it's like am I

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Speaker 3: entering a foreign country. It's just totally different vibes than

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Speaker 3: New York, you know. And I feel like being Texan

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Speaker 3: is responsible for so many of the things I believe

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Speaker 3: today because growing up where I did, I didn't have

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Speaker 3: the luxury of having many LGBTQ plus people around me.

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Speaker 3: So it's the kind of place where if you knew

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Speaker 3: one gay person, that's your community and you just had

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Speaker 3: to make that work. So we needed each other in

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Speaker 3: this fundamental way. There was one gay bar and the

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Speaker 3: periphery of our town, and I went there every single

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Speaker 3: Friday after I turned eighteen, and I'd run into a

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Speaker 3: substitute teacher from second grade, someone who I was cleaning

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Speaker 3: the park with. The other day, people would drive in

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Speaker 3: from two or three hours, and that idea of a

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Speaker 3: small town gay bar is still so central to who

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Speaker 3: I am as a person today. We have to love

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Speaker 3: each other. We have no other choice but to love

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Speaker 3: each other. We might not have anything in common, but

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Speaker 3: we have to be there for each other. And there's

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Speaker 3: this kind of neighborliness that I bring into everything that

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Speaker 3: I do that I learned there, which is how to

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Speaker 3: get along with people, even if you might not believe

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Speaker 3: in the same visions of the world, even if you

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Speaker 3: might not share the same politics, still share space with

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Speaker 3: people and build a community.

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Speaker 1: I love that. And you know, I heard you say

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Speaker 1: something very interesting that.

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Speaker 2: So often as a you know, queer person, we're always

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Speaker 2: asked like when did you know? Like when did you

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Speaker 2: know you were different? And I'm I love I think

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Speaker 2: you stopped at some point and said, but like, what

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Speaker 2: is different? We are not different. I think when we

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Speaker 2: become you know, you get to a certain age. In

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Speaker 2: this Western society, there's just this huge following in line

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Speaker 2: and conforming. We move so freely in the world that

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Speaker 2: that makes people uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: I don't find us to be different at all.

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Speaker 3: Here's what I believe. I believe each person is our

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Speaker 3: own cosmos, and we're all different. And what people do

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Speaker 3: is they look at LGBTQ people and they're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: these people are more peculiar, more strange, but actually, to

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Speaker 3: be humanist, to be strange. Everybody has their own idiosyncrasies,

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Speaker 3: their own kind of dance routine, and I was just

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Speaker 3: being free as a kid. I wore what I wanted

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Speaker 3: to wear. I danced like I wanted to dance. I

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Speaker 3: used to do a lot of interpretive dance. I just

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Speaker 3: felt called to do it. So I would put on

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Speaker 3: the latest Bollywood track and then dance for all the

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Speaker 3: Indian uncles and aunties and put on a show in

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Speaker 3: my living room. I didn't have any shame or embarrassment.

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Speaker 3: I just wanted to express myself, and that's what I

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Speaker 3: was doing. I was just expressing myself. And then people

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Speaker 3: would punish me for that. They'd be like, why are

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Speaker 3: you acting this way? Boys don't act like this? Could

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Speaker 3: it be that you're gay? Before I even had any

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Speaker 3: sense of myself, people felt the need to police my

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Speaker 3: joy and my creative self expression. So what I believe

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Speaker 3: is that actually everyone begins joy forward, everyone begins free,

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Speaker 3: and then shame enters the and sculpts people into this

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Speaker 3: homogeneity like it's some mass production factory. And so then

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Speaker 3: what happens is if if you maintain some sense of

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Speaker 3: your soul, of your verve, people look at you like

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Speaker 3: you're different, but actually it's like you are too. We're

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Speaker 3: all different, you know. And so I read a lot

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Speaker 3: of the bullying that I experienced when I was younger

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Speaker 3: as people who were really threatened by my freedom because

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Speaker 3: they had lost touch with it. And and I feel

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Speaker 3: like a lot of the work I do as an

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Speaker 3: adult today is to remember how to rekindle When I

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Speaker 3: used to just act in the way that I wanted

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Speaker 3: to act, I was so uninhibited. I look back at

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Speaker 3: the outfits that I used to concoct when I was

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Speaker 3: like five, and I'm like, goals, Honestly, it's still just

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Speaker 3: like that. Like I just didn't give a flying fuck

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Speaker 3: what anyone thought I was expressing myself. I felt a

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Speaker 3: certain way, I liked a certain color. I would put

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Speaker 3: it on. I didn't have any of these ideas of

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Speaker 3: gender norms or you're going to formal events, you wear this.

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Speaker 3: I just was dressing in a way that brought me joy.

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Speaker 3: And so I genuinely feel like when I was younger,

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Speaker 3: I was so joyful and that's what was being punished,

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Speaker 3: Like it wasn't just my gender, my race, all those things.

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Speaker 3: It was actually my joy, my possibility, my commitment to

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Speaker 3: self expression. Those were so threatening to people. And I

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Speaker 3: think that's because in the places that we grew up in,

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Speaker 3: so much of the way that belonging works is like

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Speaker 3: you have to hide the closets, not just for gay people.

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Speaker 3: Where I grew up, everybody's lyne m hmm. Like everybody's saying, oh,

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Speaker 3: you know, I've got these religious beliefs, and then you

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Speaker 3: look at their actual practices and there's a major discrepancy there.

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Speaker 3: You get all these people who are on moral high

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Speaker 3: horses but actually are not living those lives whatsoever. But

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Speaker 3: no one's being truthful with each other. And so I

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Speaker 3: think that when they saw me express myself, they saw truth.

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Speaker 3: And that's really threatening to an entire society that's held

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Speaker 3: together with lying.

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Speaker 2: And that's where you think the hate stems from. What

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Speaker 2: has to you know, the freedom to be exactly who

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Speaker 2: you want to be and choose to be is really

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Speaker 2: fucking painful for people who comply and live in this

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Speaker 2: Western culture where you have to act a certain way.

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Speaker 3: And that's why I have sympathy. I have so much

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Speaker 3: sympathy because I don't actually believe that LGBTQ people are oppressed.

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Speaker 3: I think we are free, and I think the reason

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Speaker 3: we are being discriminated against structurally is because people are

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Speaker 3: envious of our freedom. I believe homophobia and transphobia are

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Speaker 3: just envy projects that people use prejudice like homophobia as

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Speaker 3: a way to escape from having to confront their own pain.

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Speaker 3: So it's easier to judge me to look at my life,

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Speaker 3: to be obsessed with what I'm wearing, because that's all

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Speaker 3: a distraction from having to take inventory of the fact

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Speaker 3: that you're unhappy with your family, unhappy and your relationship.

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Speaker 3: Because if you were really satisfied with your life, you

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Speaker 3: would not get care about what I was doing at all,

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Speaker 3: you know. And so I think what I had to

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Speaker 3: wake up to is when I was younger, I had

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Speaker 3: a lot of resentment and bitterness because I was getting

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Speaker 3: discriminated against, and I always felt like I wanted to

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Speaker 3: have power, like those people who bullied me had power.

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Speaker 3: And then I realized that's not power, no way. Power

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Speaker 3: isn't that insecure. Power doesn't feel the need to bully

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Speaker 3: other people. Leadership and power is the quiet genius and

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Speaker 3: strength of just showing up as you are. And I

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Speaker 3: already had that. I had everything that I was seeking,

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Speaker 3: and in fact, the reason I was being punished was

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Speaker 3: because I was powerful. So the shift I've made in

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Speaker 3: my life is I think when I was younger, I

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Speaker 3: thought I had to get access to something, I had

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Speaker 3: to be legitimized, I had to be seen. But really

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Speaker 3: all of what I was looking for was to see

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Speaker 3: myself and to accept myself. And I think I had

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Speaker 3: that when I was younger. I had so much fundamental

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Speaker 3: self acceptance, and that was threatening to people. They were like, wait,

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Speaker 3: what do you mean you don't need me? What do

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Speaker 3: you mean you don't need my validation? And I was

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Speaker 3: just dancingly beading my own drum. And so what I'm

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Speaker 3: trying to do now is just to self validate the

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Speaker 3: fuck out of my life.

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Speaker 1: I love it.

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Speaker 3: I think that really scares people, and specifically scares men,

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Speaker 3: because they've been trained to think that their authority and

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Speaker 3: their legitimization is our prerequisite to exist on earth. It's

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Speaker 3: really irrelevant. I have so many other things do they like?

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Speaker 2: But you say it so beautifully, and it's just it's

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Speaker 2: really interesting. When I think about something you said and

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Speaker 2: I quoted it. You said, you've spoken about giving birth

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Speaker 2: to yourself in the absence of representation, especially in Texas.

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Speaker 1: How has that process shaped you?

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Speaker 3: Well, my mom did a great job, but it wasn't enough.

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Speaker 3: Like my parents tried their best, and I'm so happy

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Speaker 3: that they gave me this body, in this form, but

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Speaker 3: they were ill equipped to raise me as a queer person.

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Speaker 3: Because because that was something I had to learn how

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Speaker 3: to do myself. I had to learn how to practice

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Speaker 3: self respect and a world that was degrading me. I

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Speaker 3: had to actually say I choose this. For so long,

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Speaker 3: I wanted to be straight. I wanted to be white,

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Speaker 3: I wanted to be sis, I wanted to fit in,

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Speaker 3: and then I got to a place where I was like, no,

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Speaker 3: that's all loneliness. Actually, I want to be me. And

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Speaker 3: that's what giving birth to yourself is is choosing this

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Speaker 3: form and choosing to be alive. Because I think a

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Speaker 3: lot of people are just on autopilot. Yes you know,

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Speaker 3: they're playing dead while alive. They're just trying to hide

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Speaker 3: and keep it very simple, and that's what I was

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Speaker 3: trying to do. I thought safety came from camouflaging and

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Speaker 3: that was so much of my life in Texas as

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Speaker 3: trying to shape shift and become what other people wanted

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Speaker 3: me to be, to pretend to be all these things

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Speaker 3: that I used to pretend to, like bands I didn't like,

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Speaker 3: and like I like wore Hollister and stuff like. I

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Speaker 3: don't know what I was doing, really, but I was

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Speaker 3: just trying to belong. And then eventually with the selfrid

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Speaker 3: process was like, none of that matters. What matters is

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Speaker 3: I like me and I'm gonna choose me. And I

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Speaker 3: think that's the greatest romance of my life. You know,

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Speaker 3: partners will come and go, but what will be there

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Speaker 3: forever is my relationship with myself. And I think that's

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Speaker 3: what's most malnourished in this culture is people are so

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Speaker 3: seeking external validation continually. And what self birth was for me,

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Speaker 3: which was actually a privilege because I couldn't rely on

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Speaker 3: the validation for my family, I couldn't rely on the

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Speaker 3: validation from society. I had to learn how to reroute

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Speaker 3: all of those requests for validation to myself. And so,

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Speaker 3: you know, in one framework, you could say I was

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Speaker 3: closet in Texas, but I prefer to describe it as

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Speaker 3: an artist residency where I was learning how to love myself.

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Speaker 3: I was spending time in my mind being afraid, going

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Speaker 3: through all those terrible thoughts. What if I'm abandoned by

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Speaker 3: my family, what if I get kicked out of home?

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Speaker 3: What if no one loves me? And what? The answer

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Speaker 3: that came from that process was I'm gonna be okay

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Speaker 3: because I have me and finding myself in that is

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Speaker 3: something that no one can ever take away from me.

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Speaker 3: And I think really scares people, Yeah, because so often

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Speaker 3: when I look at my comment sections, people like, oh,

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Speaker 3: why would you dress like that? Why would you look

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Speaker 3: at that? I'm like, Oh, as we say in Texas,

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Speaker 3: bless your heart, you're living your life caring what other

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Speaker 3: people think. Yeah, that's hardly living.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 3: I did that for eighteen years in Texas, and I

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Speaker 3: was so depressed. The reason I was suicidal growing up

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Speaker 3: was not just because I was bullied for being gay,

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Speaker 3: but because I was bullying myself for being me. And

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Speaker 3: that's a deeper kind of pain. Pain, you know, because

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Speaker 3: other people can torment you, but who's the last person

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Speaker 3: to abuse you? Before you go to sleep? Your own

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Speaker 3: thoughts and the tyranny in there, and I was so

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Speaker 3: cruel to me. I would say, I would go through

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Speaker 3: my day and nitpick every single thing I let slip.

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Speaker 3: Oh your lisp was right here. Oh you were too effeminate.

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Speaker 3: Right here. I was self monitoring and self scrutinizing all

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Speaker 3: the time, and there was no room for any grace.

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Speaker 3: And that is the opposite of the energy I try

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Speaker 3: to bring in now. The energy I try to bring

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Speaker 3: in now is Wow, I'm so grateful to be me.

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Speaker 3: I feel so lucky, I feel so blessed. I feel

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Speaker 3: so happy because what I am is truth. And so

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Speaker 3: when I think about this process of self birth is like,

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Speaker 3: once again in one paradigm, you could say it's inconvenient

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Speaker 3: and unfortunate that I didn't have representation, and that's true.

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Speaker 3: But what I also want to hold is that it

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Speaker 3: gave me an opportunity I think a lot of people

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Speaker 3: don't have, which is to learn how to love me

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Speaker 3: first and to not wait to be validated by other people.

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Speaker 1: That's really beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Look, it makes me think about the other part that

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Speaker 2: you spoke about, and you said you describe home as

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Speaker 2: an internal sense of security rather than a physical place.

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Speaker 2: How do you cultivate that internal home? Especially when you

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Speaker 2: feel the world is so fucking judgmental and so harsh

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Speaker 2: and so fragmented. It's like, how do you go through

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Speaker 2: this process of becoming at such a young age while

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Speaker 2: feeling safe.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think you know this when you were traveling

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Speaker 3: around playing games. The nature of my job is that

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Speaker 3: I am in hotel rooms across the world all the time.

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Speaker 3: I'm constantly in flex I never really unpack my suitcase.

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Speaker 3: There's like this in between the stage of like basics here,

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Speaker 3: And at first, you know, that was really tumultuous, But

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Speaker 3: then I actually started to realize, like this is an

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Speaker 3: opportunity to reinvent home. When people ask me, like, when

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Speaker 3: are you coming home, I'm like, already there, Because home

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Speaker 3: is when I'm doing what I'm doing right now, which

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Speaker 3: is saying the truth out loud. That's where home is.

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Speaker 3: When I'm not home is when I'm shape shifting, It's

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Speaker 3: when i'm fawning. It's when I'm lying to myself. That's

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Speaker 3: not being home. Home is truth, and when home is truth,

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Speaker 3: I can bring that everywhere that I go. And I

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Speaker 3: learn that from being on the road all the time.

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Speaker 3: Is I really had to learn how to build home

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Speaker 3: out of leftovers in a fridge and out of new

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Speaker 3: friends you just met one night and you're like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I guess you're my community. We're just together the next

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Speaker 3: three days. And I learned that the way that you

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Speaker 3: build community and the way that you build home is

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Speaker 3: by being vulnerable, because the minute you even say things

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Speaker 3: like I'm missing people, then people will tell you about

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Speaker 3: the people they're missing, and then you can become that

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Speaker 3: thing for each other, and that's truth. And I think

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Speaker 3: growing up in Texas, one of the things that I

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Speaker 3: was really taught was that sharing pain is weakness, and

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Speaker 3: the way to be strong is to be covert about

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Speaker 3: your pain. And what I've had to learn as an

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Speaker 3: adult is that actually, the more honest and the more

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Speaker 3: in touch I am with my pain and with my truth,

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Speaker 3: the more community, home and security that I experience. And

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Speaker 3: I think also, I don't want to run the risk

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Speaker 3: of romanticizing, because what I went through is like brutal,

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Speaker 3: like I wouldn't wish it on anyone. And I think

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Speaker 3: it frustrates me that the only narratives that people have

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Speaker 3: about people like me in popular culture is one of suffering,

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Speaker 3: when in fact, alongside that suffering, we live extremely expansive lives,

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Speaker 3: and I think it's like the inside out, outside out perspective.

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Speaker 3: When you just look at queer life from the outside,

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Speaker 3: you're like, oh, this is so sad. But when you're

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Speaker 3: in this life and you've chosen this life, and you

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Speaker 3: look at your friends and you look at your lovers,

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Speaker 3: and you look at yourself, and you're like, I'm so lucky.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm so lucky because for the first time,

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Speaker 3: I'm not lying, and that authenticity is a sanctuary. It

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Speaker 3: is the greatest gift. And so I guess what I'm

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Speaker 3: trying to say is like, yes, it was difficult for

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Speaker 3: me as a young transkitt of color in Texas wamp

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Speaker 3: wamp and it taught me strategies that allow me to

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Speaker 3: actualize heaven on Earth. I'm having the absolute time of

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Speaker 3: my life. I am so grateful and so gracious, Like

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Speaker 3: I'm even thinking about just meeting you our first time.

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Speaker 3: The conversations we have are not surface because we all know, oh,

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Speaker 3: we've been through a lot of pain, a lot of

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Speaker 3: people have invalidated us. We carry battle scars, and so

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Speaker 3: we begin from that place, which is the truthful place.

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Speaker 3: And so when I meet other queer people. We're not

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Speaker 3: beginning at this shallow We're like beginning at two point

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Speaker 3: oh three point out four point zero. And so the

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Speaker 3: types of relationships and conversations we have are so enriching

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Speaker 3: and powerful. And I think that's what I wish I

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Speaker 3: could have communicated to my younger self, is like, you're

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Speaker 3: getting a lot of negative pr that like if you

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Speaker 3: be yourself, you're gonna lose everyone and lose everything. But

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Speaker 3: I'm here to let you know, actually, you're gonna get

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Speaker 3: rid of that stagnant energy to create space for the

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Speaker 3: people you've needed to meet your entire life.

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Speaker 2: And I will say that because we met, you know,

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Speaker 2: in Europe doing like a activist like activism queer type

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Speaker 2: of summit education, and you felt like, you know when

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Speaker 2: you talk about home and safety, You felt like that

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Speaker 2: to me. And I remember we sat at dinner next

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Speaker 2: to each other and we were so close, and I

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Speaker 2: just you were so cold, and I took my coat

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Speaker 2: off and I gave it to you, and you were

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Speaker 2: so surprised by it, and you were like, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: that's just so sweet. And I just really felt that

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Speaker 2: sense of safety with you, and that boils down to

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Speaker 2: community like it is such a beautiful thing and we

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Speaker 2: are so lucky to have experienced. And I say this

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Speaker 2: in a really I don't wish the pain on anyone

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Speaker 2: that we've all gone through, but I'm lucky I have

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Speaker 2: gone through it and been on this side and say,

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Speaker 2: I learned so much about who I am, where I

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Speaker 2: want to be, how I want to show up, how

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Speaker 2: I want to navigate, how I want to advocate, how

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Speaker 2: I want to hold space with the people I care

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Speaker 2: about the most, whether it's meeting someone for thirty seconds,

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Speaker 2: thirty minutes, or thirty years. And there's just something so

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Speaker 2: special about that type of community. And this is going

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Speaker 2: to be air during Pride, and it is such a

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Speaker 2: beautiful moment for us to really see and share the

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Speaker 2: pain but celebrate it because we are in such a

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Speaker 2: unique place where, yeah, the fucking world's a dumpster fire,

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Speaker 2: but we have a real opportunity here to really show

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Speaker 2: and bring people in and no one does that better

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Speaker 2: than you.

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Speaker 3: Well, as you're speaking, the word sacred came to mind,

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Speaker 3: Like what we experience together is so sacred. We've known

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Speaker 3: the opposite of sacredness. We have been baptized by people

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Speaker 3: spitting us on the street. We have had people judge

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Speaker 3: everything about us. We have felt jealousy and close us,

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Speaker 3: And the opposite of that is the kind of openness, expansiveness, curiosity.

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Speaker 3: That's what I experienced when I'm around other queer people.

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Speaker 3: And it's ironic because growing up in Texas, so many

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Speaker 3: people were trying to evangelize me this idea that you've

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Speaker 3: got to die in order to experience what is sacred.

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Speaker 3: And what I found in queer life is heaven on earth.

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Speaker 3: I think being queer is heaven practice. Actually making every

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Speaker 3: conversation powerful and anointed is seeing the sacredness in one

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Speaker 3: another and finding the godliness and so many things we've

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Speaker 3: been thought are disgusting and awful and taught to judge.

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Speaker 3: There's something so powerful when you look at the parts

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Speaker 3: of yourself and the parts of other people you've been

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Speaker 3: taught to judge as retrogade and and say, oh, this

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Speaker 3: is godly. And once you accept that godliness, it brings

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Speaker 3: me so much hope. So, yeah, there's so much wrong

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Speaker 3: in the world, But I want us to be as

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Speaker 3: fluent in what's wrong in the world as how right

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Speaker 3: we are. And I want us to develop the language

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Speaker 3: to actually articulate how precious we are to one another.

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Speaker 3: You know, in one story, I could say like, oh,

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Speaker 3: we just met, we had a night together. But another

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Speaker 3: what I could say is you brought me hope in

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Speaker 3: a desolate world, and that gesture, that small gesture of

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Speaker 3: keeping me warm made me feel like, oh, there are

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Speaker 3: people in the world who have my back in a

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Speaker 3: really felt way. And we have to start articulating that.

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Speaker 3: Because the way that despair works is it becomes an

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Speaker 3: author of our life story. We begin to filter everything

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Speaker 3: through this prism of calamity. Things are all falling apart,

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Speaker 3: and things are bad, and alongside the things falling apart,

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Speaker 3: we have the capacity to be even kinder to each other,

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Speaker 3: even more gentle to each other, even offering more grace,

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Speaker 3: more community, more extension of arms. And what that's actually

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Speaker 3: going to do is buffer us. And I guess I've

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Speaker 3: been feeling called in this moment as things get more serious,

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Speaker 3: to get more silly and to get more kind because

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Speaker 3: those are two things that I can control. I can't

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Speaker 3: really control whatever is going on over there, but I

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Speaker 3: can control Can I come to every interaction with the

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Speaker 3: kindest version of myself to leave people with proof that

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Speaker 3: hope exists.

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Speaker 2: This is wide open and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back.

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Speaker 2: You know, the interesting part is, for me, at least,

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Speaker 2: what I've experienced through one of the hardest seasons of

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Speaker 2: my life was going through, you know, a divorce it

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Speaker 2: became public, starting a reallylationship with Sophia that became even

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Speaker 2: more public. You know, the interesting part is the people

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Speaker 2: that punched me the most were people in our community,

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Speaker 2: which I found so much hate come my way from

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Speaker 2: my own people who I thought would hold me in

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Speaker 2: a way and see me in a way to say

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Speaker 2: it's okay. It's still super painful for me, and I

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Speaker 2: love our community so much, and I do. It's important

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Speaker 2: that you say that, because I do think we project

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Speaker 2: our pain and we were so harsh on each other,

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Speaker 2: and we're so critical of each other even in our

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Speaker 2: own community, and I'm curious if you experience.

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Speaker 1: That at all.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, what I've really had to learn. I've been through

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Speaker 3: similar trials by fire, where I thought, oh, because we

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Speaker 3: shared this identity and had the shared experience, we would

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Speaker 3: of course be soft to each other. But it's actually

435
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 3: the inverse. I think what happens for a lot of

436
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 3: people is the versions of love that they've been taught

437
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 3: are I'm going to bully you so to protect you.

438
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 3: Like I remember when I was younger, my grandparents would

439
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 3: say to me sometimes like, Okay, you just need to

440
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 3: act in dress like this to stay safe. But they

441
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 3: didn't realize that them doing that was actually me bullying me.

442
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 3: So even though the motivation was alleged kindness and alleged protection,

443
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 3: the execution was actually just bullying. And so I think

444
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 3: what happens a lot of times in the LGBTQ plus

445
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 3: community is people have a good intention, but the exercise

446
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:46,199
Speaker 3: of it actually is mean and cool spirited. So what

447
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 3: we have to actually do is we have to go

448
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,640
Speaker 3: to the next level, which is to say, because I've

449
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 3: been discriminated against, because I've been shown such malevolence, I

450
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 3: am at risk for doing the same thing to other

451
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 3: people around me, and I'm going to heal so that

452
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 3: I can interrupt that cycle of trauma. I have had

453
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 3: meanness in me, I have had judgment in me. I

454
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,239
Speaker 3: have been cruel, I have condemned. I have looked at

455
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 3: other people and said I am better. And I realize

456
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 3: all that came from my lack of self acceptance. All

457
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 3: that came from my insecurity. All that came because I

458
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,199
Speaker 3: was trying to run away from my own problems. And

459
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 3: so when I experience that vitual, I have grace because

460
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 3: I've been there. It's so much easier to dwell in

461
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 3: me than it is to look at yourself. I've been back.

462
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 3: But also this is not my responsibility that part, and

463
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 3: to say, what I'm responsible for is living the most

464
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 3: truthful version of my life and not having to shape

465
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 3: shift to please other people exactly. And I think once again,

466
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 3: it's like the transition from the kind of trauma we

467
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 3: grow up with and the places we grew up with

468
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 3: to creating this new world is not going to be seamless.

469
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 3: We're going to come with a lot of that toxicity.

470
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 3: One of the things that I was taught in my

471
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 3: family is the way that you belong to a unit

472
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 3: is you shame each other. You shame each other into

473
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 3: control and into shape. I don't know if you experienced

474
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 3: this on a team, but so many team formations are

475
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 3: often brought together through shame, when I actually think the

476
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 3: way that we bring a true team together is through vulnerability,

477
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 3: through sharing, like a different way. So what I'm always

478
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 3: trying to ask myself is like, Okay, I was taught

479
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 3: belonging came from exile to finding who's on the inside,

480
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 3: who's on the outside, creating an other that's not true belonging.

481
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,400
Speaker 3: True belonging is a place where each person can come

482
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 3: with their fullest version of themselves.

483
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 2: And that is something you live every day. And I

484
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 2: want to hit on that because I mean, the way

485
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 2: you dress, the way you I'm so inspired by your

486
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 2: creativity and by like you are so put together. I'm like,

487
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 2: I love it, Like I want to know because you

488
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 2: push up against this, you talk about it the gender

489
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 2: binary through fect performance, How have you really where did

490
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 2: that come from? To really push up against what beauty

491
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 2: looks like in this Western culture?

492
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 3: To be honest, like, I'm just being myself. You know,

493
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 3: there's a lot of like fancy words you could describe

494
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 3: to do what I'm doing, but it's very simple. I

495
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 3: just kind of wake up and I'm like, what makes

496
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 3: me feel pretty? What makes me feel good? And then

497
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 3: I get dressed and I look like what makes me

498
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 3: feel good? And people have issues with that, I guess

499
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 3: because they feel bad. I feel bad for that, yeah,

500
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 3: but has really nothing to do with me. Yeah, because

501
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 3: my body belongs to me. So I think once I

502
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 3: began to realize that this is mine mm hmm, then

503
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 3: other people's appraisal of that, it's kind of it's irrelevant

504
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 3: to me. But I just genuinely I think people kind

505
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 3: of forgot that, Like, they don't own me. People are

506
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 3: constantly trying to pretend like they owe me, they own me.

507
00:27:58,160 --> 00:27:59,919
Speaker 3: There's these politicians you might have heard of him, They

508
00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 3: like keep on trying to pass laws, and there's these

509
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 3: like you know, basic trolls online just telling me to change.

510
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 3: I'm just stupefied because I'm like, y'all really think that

511
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:10,959
Speaker 3: you own me?

512
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 2: Like, no, you don't.

513
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 3: It's so ridiculous. So what they think is ridiculous is

514
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 3: what I look like. But what's actually ridiculous is the

515
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 3: fiction that they think that they own me. They don't.

516
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 3: This is twenty twenty five. I belong to myself exactly.

517
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 3: So once you realize that you've no choice but to

518
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 3: be free because you belong to you, And I just

519
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 3: genuinely think autonomy is so scary to people because they've

520
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 3: been taught oh no, no, no, I have to look like

521
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 3: this for other people. I don't dress for other people.

522
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 3: I don't, so people always like, get a stylist, you

523
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 3: look ridiculous. Level up, and I'm literally like, why I'm happy.

524
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 3: I'm gonna always wear what I always want to wear

525
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 3: because I'm not playing for ten. So some people might

526
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 3: not like what I'm wearing. That's cool. I don't care.

527
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 3: I'm not going to change. And so that's what I

528
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 3: think is so interesting is that people cantinually be like change, change, change, change, change,

529
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 3: and I'm like, what's going on with you? Because I've

530
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 3: been doing this for a while now, so it's not

531
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 3: like one day that one comment is going to hit

532
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 3: me and I'd be like, you're so right, Yeah, thank

533
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 3: you so much for that feedback. I look ridiculous for

534
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 3: your dress. I had no idea. I appreciate that so much.

535
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 3: Go to Men's Warehouse absolutely not mental us if you're

536
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 3: listening that we can fix men's fashion again anyways.

537
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: We really can.

538
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 3: So it's just it's wild to me because I just

539
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 3: really want to show how how farcical and ridiculous it

540
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 3: is that we judge and comment on other people's appearance.

541
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 3: To begin with. That is literally so absurd, Like you

542
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 3: are making decisions about your own body every day and

543
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 3: that is so cool and gnarly, and that's the world

544
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 3: that we want. So if you want to make the

545
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 3: decision to dress in a way that I don't like, okay, cool.

546
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 3: You know, how did I get there? I guess like

547
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 3: I guess like I found my purpose on Earth, oh

548
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 3: you know. And to find my purpose on Earth, I

549
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 3: started writing. Writing for me was the first place that

550
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,239
Speaker 3: I began to see glimpses and glimmers of who I

551
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 3: was outside of what society was conditioning to me to be.

552
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 3: It's why I saw my intuition come out. And what

553
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 3: my intuition was telling me is like a look, you're

554
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 3: an entertainer, you're a performer, you're a poet. You're meant

555
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 3: to express yourself. And at first, like early on, when

556
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 3: I was like eighteen nineteen, I was like, no, no, no,

557
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 3: stop it. I'm not ready for this. I'm not ready

558
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 3: for my own power. I just want to hide. I

559
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 3: want to be like other people. I want to camouflage.

560
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 3: But then the voice got louder and louder and louder

561
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 3: and was like, your purpose on Earth is to feel

562
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 3: and is to feel freedom and is to be. And

563
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 3: as I started to write and make more art, I

564
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 3: became the art. The art wasn't just something that I

565
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 3: was making, And then going back to being normy if

566
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 3: something I was living, poetry is not something I was writing,

567
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 3: it was something I was being. And so now I

568
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 3: see every day of getting dressed as an opportunity to

569
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 3: make art.

570
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

571
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 3: So what we do when we make art is you say, like,

572
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 3: what do I feel? And I think that's scary for

573
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 3: a lot of people because they're so dissociated they don't

574
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 3: know what they feel that part. So when you actually

575
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 3: are in touch with your feeling, you're just expressing what

576
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 3: you're feeling.

577
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I.

578
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 2: Love I love that you say that because it is

579
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 2: fashion is like, especially in queer fashion, it is a liberation,

580
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 2: like it is literally non conforming, and it's every time

581
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 2: I see queer people dress, I'm like, oh, this is like,

582
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,959
Speaker 2: this is it. It moves me in a really weird

583
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 2: way that I have a hard time even putting a

584
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 2: name to it.

585
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,479
Speaker 1: But I love the sense of freedom.

586
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 2: I love the sense of I'm going to do me

587
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 2: and I'm going to move in this world freely and

588
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 2: I hope that inspires you to do the same. And

589
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 2: you've said a few things about creating new worlds. What

590
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 2: kind of world are are you trying to build through

591
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 2: your like creative practice, your fashion, your art, your poetry.

592
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 2: There's just so much of who you are that bleeds

593
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 2: into your work that is so beautiful.

594
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 3: Well, first, I just want to say thank you for

595
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 3: these really great questions, because what we're actually modeling here

596
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 3: is exactly what I was talking about. We don't have

597
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,959
Speaker 3: to skirt around the most important, beautiful things. So often

598
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 3: in interviews like this, people will be like, so when

599
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 3: did you first know that you were a trans? Can

600
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 3: you please define what is non binary? And then I

601
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 3: just say, well, you know, prenatal, I was playing with dolls. Really,

602
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 3: I knew from negative five. Really, And it's just so

603
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 3: boring because we have to began at square one. And

604
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 3: I think it actually dehumanized us because it sees us

605
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 3: as just a terminology, like all we are is an identity,

606
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 3: when in fact we're humans with vibrancies and frequencies that

607
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 3: are fun. Yes, and I appreciate that intention. I want

608
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 3: to say thank you. And then second, I wanted to

609
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 3: say something before I forgot to say, which is about

610
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 3: creative self expression? What's the alternative? Okay, So let's say

611
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 3: if I really subscribe to the advice that people told me.

612
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 3: The advice that people tell me is that I should

613
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 3: look like everyone else and that I should be a

614
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 3: straight man. Let's say if I was to do that,

615
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 3: I would die. I'm not being hyperbolic, I'm not being dramatic.

616
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 3: I'm being honest. I would die. You want to know why,

617
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 3: because I've tasted freedom and now going back into a

618
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 3: closet sounds like the most miserable thing in the world.

619
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 3: What I'm saying is I would sign up for all

620
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 3: the scrutiny, the judgment and the vitriol because that is

621
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 3: less painful to me than self betrayal. So the advice

622
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 3: that's being given to me is die. So that's why

623
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 3: I have so much clarity, is because I know that

624
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 3: the quicksand of all of this advice that's like fit

625
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 3: in and fit in, Where that ultimately lands is me dying.

626
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 3: Where this lands is I might be killed. But that's

627
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 3: a higher probability chance that I'm going to be alive

628
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,720
Speaker 3: than if I follow the other advice. Yeah, and in fact,

629
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 3: if I listen to my intuition and express myself. Not

630
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 3: only am I going to be alive in the physical sense,

631
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 3: I'm going to be alive in the spiritual sense. I'm

632
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 3: going to be present. I'm going to be able to

633
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 3: have conversations with you that are meaningful and true and resonant.

634
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 3: I'm not going to have to live a hapless and

635
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 3: boring life. Ew. So, the stakes of fashion and self

636
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 3: expression are not superficial. And I think that's why queer

637
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 3: fashion is so powerful is that you're actually seeing the

638
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 3: soul at play. You're seeing people really do this vulnerable

639
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 3: work of showing out loud what a smile looks like

640
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 3: when you've been degraded, and there's something so hopeful about that. Okay, now,

641
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 3: creating new worlds. The reason I talk about new worlds

642
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 3: all the time is this one is so boring. It's

643
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 3: just like it was a bad idea. It really was

644
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 3: a bad idea because I look at everything that's happening

645
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 3: right now and I'm like, ew, get me out of here.

646
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 3: I'm so over this. And I'm over this because it's

647
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 3: a world that was made for a small minority of

648
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 3: rich white men to hoard all of their wealth and resources,

649
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 3: and so they've kept us constantly judging and fighting one

650
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 3: another as they cash a check at the bank. That's

651
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,760
Speaker 3: what this world was created for them and their image

652
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 3: because they were too afraid to look at themselves in

653
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 3: the mirror. They just wanted to create it into entire society.

654
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,280
Speaker 3: They didn't allow them to look at themselves in a mirror.

655
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,760
Speaker 3: That's not a world I'm really interested in. The world

656
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 3: I'm interested in is a world where we have no

657
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 3: small talk, where we just go up to people, because

658
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 3: people are all extensions of ourselves. They're no strangers, they're

659
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 3: just different versions of ourselves. We're like, hey, how are

660
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 3: you doing And then someone will be like, hey, I'm

661
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 3: not really doing that well, and they'd be like, I'm

662
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 3: not doing that well either, and then we'll talk about

663
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 3: what we're not doing well, and then we'll both realize, oh,

664
00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 3: we're unhappy, and then we'll decide to do something about it.

665
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 3: We'll realize that like sadness is not our individual responsibility,

666
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 3: it's an imprint of what's happening in the collective. And

667
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 3: then we'll come together to create something better. And then

668
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 3: we'll try to end loneliness like that's the kind of

669
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 3: world that I want, is a world in which there

670
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 3: are no strangers, a world in which there is no loneliness.

671
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 3: Because when I grew up, a Fantasy was my favorite

672
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 3: children's book series, like Wheel of Time is my favorite

673
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 3: series in the world. I've read it maybe like six times.

674
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 3: I stood reading when I was eleven, And the reason

675
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 3: it spoke to me so much is the idea that

676
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 3: there are other worlds besides this one. And when I

677
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,879
Speaker 3: was a young kid, I was looking around being like this, Yeah,

678
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 3: this is life, Are you kidding me? It's just a

679
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 3: bunch of people lying and like eating really boring food,

680
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 3: and ew. I don't want to be a part of that.

681
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 3: And so I wanted something else. And so what Fantasy

682
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 3: really taught me is that there are other worlds that

683
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 3: are possible besides this one. And so central to my

684
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 3: work is not a critique of this world, but an

685
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,280
Speaker 3: insistence that we can transcend it and we can create

686
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 3: something fundamentally different. And so I see every show that

687
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 3: I create as world making, and this tour that I'm

688
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 3: doing during Pride, I'm going to a lot of places

689
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 3: where people are like, what are you doing in Jacksonville? Florida.

690
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,240
Speaker 3: Why are you going to Tampa? Come on, You're doing

691
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 3: Kansas City. And I'm literally saying to them, that's exactly

692
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 3: the kind of thinking that we need to stop, because

693
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 3: this world is possible everywhere, just like home is possible everywhere.

694
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 3: It's possible when people come together and decide to be

695
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 3: and do something different, and that's happening everywhere. And so

696
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 3: the reason I love being a performer is because in

697
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 3: each of these places, I get to world make with

698
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 3: other people. And the show that's being created is not

699
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,280
Speaker 3: just me performing from the audiences, all of us showing

700
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 3: up and creating humor that allows us to stand up

701
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 3: in a world that degrades us. It's not just jokes

702
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 3: for escapism. It's a survival strategy of I'm going to

703
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 3: fight for my joy amidst all of this despair. The

704
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 3: world I want is where joy is not a luxury,

705
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 3: it's our birthright. I genuinely believe that joy is our birthright.

706
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 3: I didn't believe that for a long time, and I

707
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 3: believe it now. And the way that I've come to

708
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 3: believe that is by touring in places. You know, I

709
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 3: was in Uganda and twenty eighteen we put together one

710
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 3: of the first transprides in Kampala, and so many people

711
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 3: in my life were like, look, what are you doing

712
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 3: in Uganda. That's one of the most unsafe places in

713
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 3: the world for queer people. And I said, Okay, they're

714
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 3: queer people there, so I'm gonna go ye. And we

715
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 3: had one of the funnest nights of my life. Genuinely,

716
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 3: I look back at those photos and I'm like, well,

717
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 3: I ever have this one fun again. It was so

718
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 3: much fun because we understood the stakes of what it

719
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 3: meant to be together, and we understood that this was

720
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 3: so precious and so meaningful and so magnificent. We were

721
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 3: lapping up every single second of it and we created

722
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 3: a different world that night. And so how can I

723
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 3: feel despair when I can look back at my journal

724
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 3: and see all of these nights where we took impossible

725
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 3: conditions and we created beauty. And That's how I'm getting

726
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 3: through these times. I'm not trying to. There's a lot

727
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 3: of horrible things. There's a lot of really bad, vile things,

728
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 3: and I believe in us so hard to not just

729
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 3: get through this, but to continue to level up. Yes,

730
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 3: but the way that we have to do it is

731
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 3: we have to say what is non negotiable, and what

732
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 3: is non negotiable for me is joy. And to your

733
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 3: point earlier, I feel often very judged for that. I

734
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 3: feel like the only way that you're allowed to show

735
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 3: up is by performing misery, is by saying, oh, you know,

736
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 3: it's just so horrible. It's so horrible, And I'm sitting

737
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,439
Speaker 3: here like if I did that my entire life, why

738
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 3: would I want to be here. I'll just be out

739
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 3: of here.

740
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 2: You know.

741
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 3: The reason I'm still here is because I want to

742
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 3: have fun. Yes, and fun is a non negotiable for me.

743
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:45,720
Speaker 1: Stay tuned.

744
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 2: I'll be back in just a moment after this brief

745
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 2: message from our sponsors. First off, I want you to

746
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 2: be my life coach. You're younger than me, but honestly,

747
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 2: or was, and your insight are so infectious. Thank you.

748
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 2: I have to ask this question because you emphasize so

749
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 2: much about emotional honesty and vulnerability, which I love, and

750
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 2: on the show, I asked one question to every person

751
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 2: who is sitting here, and it's based on the title

752
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 2: of the show, Wide Open. What was the one moment

753
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 2: in your life that really broke you wide open? That

754
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 2: changed it all? For you, where it could be work related,

755
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:40,240
Speaker 2: it could be personal. Was there that one defining moment

756
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 2: that changed it all?

757
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 3: I would say when I was a teenager and I

758
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 3: had my first suicide of town and I lived and

759
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 3: I decided to live. That was a huge moment for

760
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 3: me because I really started to ask myself, what is

761
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 3: it going to take for me to stay? I want

762
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 3: to live on this planet and what it's going to

763
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 3: take I don't know yet. I don't know what I like,

764
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,280
Speaker 3: I don't know who I am, And so I committed

765
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 3: myself to living that question. And I am the answer here.

766
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 3: I am at thirty three, the answer to my suicidal

767
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,439
Speaker 3: ideation when I was eighteen. And how cool is that

768
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 3: I didn't know what I needed? But I found what

769
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 3: I needed And the way that I found it was

770
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 3: being honest and vulnerable and saying I want to die

771
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 3: dot dot dot, So what's going to make me want

772
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 3: to live? And I got curious about what's going to

773
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 3: make me want to live? And that was my compass

774
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 3: for so many years in my life. Does this situation

775
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,240
Speaker 3: make me want to live or die? Does this situation

776
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 3: make me want to live or die? And then I

777
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 3: started to filter out. Certain people, certain dynamics, certain experiences

778
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,320
Speaker 3: brought me back to a dark place. Other things brought

779
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 3: me to an expansive, liberatory space. And so once again,

780
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 3: gratitude that little bitch just comes in all the time.

781
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 3: I feel so grateful even for that one of the

782
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 3: darkest thing that happened to me, because there's a moment

783
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 3: of confrontation that required me to not just choose my

784
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 3: identity or my gender, but to choose this life. And

785
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 3: if I could be honest, my diagnosis of everything that's

786
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 3: wrong in the world is people have opted into life,

787
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:24,359
Speaker 3: not chosen it. Because if you choose your life, if

788
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 3: you're very intentional about it, hatred makes no sense because

789
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 3: hatred has a corrosive quality on you. The more that

790
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 3: you hate, the more resentment and judgment you hold for

791
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 3: other people, the less quality of a life that you're

792
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 3: going to have. If you're genuinely concerned with living a

793
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 3: good life, hatred is one of the biggest obstacles to it.

794
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 3: So what I read a lot of the hatred in

795
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 3: the world as is like, oh, these are all kind

796
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 3: of miserable people who are opting into life, not choosing it.

797
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 3: And the leadership I want to have in the world

798
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 3: is not just about gender, but it's about saying you

799
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 3: get to live a good life. There's a lot of

800
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 3: lessons that are telling you all over the place that

801
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 3: you don't that this is inaccessible to you, that suffering

802
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 3: is your assignment on earth, that misery is your personality.

803
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 3: But I genuinely believe that if I from like a

804
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 3: small town in Texas could give birth to this, a

805
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 3: lot of things can happen. Yeah, a lot of mischievous

806
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,919
Speaker 3: and magical things can happen, and that's where the hope is. Yeah,

807
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 3: you know, James Baldenwand said I can't be a pessimist

808
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 3: because I'm alive, and that really hits for me as

809
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 3: a survivor of a suicide at down Is. I look

810
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:42,879
Speaker 3: at everyone as miraculous. I look at everything as miraculous.

811
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 3: You and I were not supposed to meet, and we did.

812
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 3: You and I were not supposed to have this conversation,

813
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 3: and we are miraculous. Things happen every single day. There

814
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 3: is a magic that's an undercurrent to all of this.

815
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 3: All we have to do is show up and trust it.

816
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 3: So that was a really defining moment for me, and

817
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 3: I think it's important because I've been thinking about it

818
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 3: a lot. Now. You know, so many people in my

819
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 3: life are struggling. There's so much despair, and in some

820
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 3: ways it feels like we've been like we've been time

821
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 3: traveled back to the early offs. Like I just I'm like,

822
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 3: am I back in college Station Texas? Is it two

823
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 3: thousand and six? What is going on? I thought we're

824
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 3: making progress, and so I think a lot of us

825
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 3: are being triggered back into past versions of ourselves, versions

826
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,839
Speaker 3: of ourselves that felt like there was despair. But what

827
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 3: I feel really called in this moment to say is

828
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 3: that this is a beautiful invitation and opening for those

829
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 3: of us who want to do something different to say no,

830
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 3: not today. I'm not going to give up my joy today.

831
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,399
Speaker 3: So ask yourself, what are practices I can put into

832
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 3: place today to preserve my joy? And how can I

833
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 3: challenge a culture that sees my joy as a luxury.

834
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:54,280
Speaker 3: It's not, it's a necessity.

835
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: It's beautiful.

836
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,359
Speaker 2: You are magic, honestly, and thank you for sharing that

837
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 2: and feeling safe enough to share that with me. With

838
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 2: this knowing and becoming, what would you whisper to your

839
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 2: younger self as this person who stands here at thirty three,

840
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 2: who has gone through so much and you see the

841
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 2: world so beautifully and so colorful, and you live your truth,

842
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:28,439
Speaker 2: what would you whisper so that young kid being here

843
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 2: today and what you've learned, I.

844
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 3: Would say the best is yet to come. The way

845
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,720
Speaker 3: that fear authors our lives as we look at the

846
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 3: forbidden terrain of the unknown and we say it's just

847
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 3: going to be collapse, it's just going to be scary.

848
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 3: But in my life, the unknown has actually given birth

849
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 3: to some of the best experiences of my life. So

850
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 3: rather than looking an unknown future and being like, it's

851
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 3: all going to be headed to the worst, what if

852
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 3: we were to look at an unknown future and be like,

853
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 3: this might be the time of my life.

854
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

855
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 3: And I want to ask you because I think that

856
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 3: this is another conversation we've had in the past, is

857
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 3: the spirituality of being an athlete because there's so much pressure,

858
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,879
Speaker 3: so many stakes. And similarly with my job when I'm

859
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 3: coming on stage, if I'm like, well, I have to

860
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 3: really do a good job, I always do a bad job.

861
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 3: Like I always inevitably if I'm like, oh, they're very

862
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 3: important people in the crowds to night. I have to

863
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 3: be really funny and really on. Then I'm so in

864
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 3: my head that I'm not able to be present. So

865
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:26,879
Speaker 3: what I found as a performer, I have to do

866
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 3: is to surrender to a greater unknown and be a

867
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 3: vessel to it. And I feel like I see that

868
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 3: in so many athletes is like part of the preparation

869
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 3: is not just physical, it's psychological. And I think that

870
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,240
Speaker 3: there's a way in which athletes and artists are uniquely

871
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 3: positioned in this time yes, to actually teach the world

872
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 3: a method that we know, which is there's a lot

873
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 3: of high stakes, but the more that you're concerned with

874
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 3: the high stakes, the less you're gonna be able to

875
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 3: show up correct. It might sound counterintuitive, but you have

876
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,439
Speaker 3: to calm yourself in order to proceed that part.

877
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 2: I worked with a ton of sports psychologists. I worked

878
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 2: on breathing experts, because when we do get worked up

879
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 2: and we kind of take on that pressure, it changes

880
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 2: the way we move, It changes the way we breathe,

881
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 2: which changes our decision making execution. Right, So for me,

882
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 2: it's really There was this incredible sports psychologist, Colleen Hacker,

883
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 2: who very early on in my career said learn your

884
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 2: ideal performance zone, your IPZ, the way I move in

885
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 2: preparation for Because I'm an entertainer, you know, we're all

886
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 2: just entertaining. I'm not curing cancer. You hold a lot

887
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 2: more weight to influence people rather than me playing a

888
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 2: sport kicking a ball around. So I always told myself,

889
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 2: if you make a mistake, have short term memory. I

890
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 2: think that's the best performers and the best athletes in

891
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 2: the world have short term memory, because if you make

892
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 2: one mistake and you carry it through, your performance is

893
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 2: fucking nightmare. Right, we keep making bad mistake, you know.

894
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 2: I always just sat in this performance mode where I

895
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 2: didn't take myself so seriously.

896
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: And you're right.

897
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:19,280
Speaker 2: We wear a vessel for others. People like I'm the entertainment.

898
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 2: I'm here to bring joy, and I'm here. My mentality was,

899
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 2: I swear on my life I would look at the

900
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 2: clock and it would be you know, there's two halves

901
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 2: in soccer, and I'd be like forty five minutes. I

902
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 2: wanted to be over. It was the weirdest thing because

903
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 2: my biggest breakthrough was the interaction after the game with

904
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 2: the people I waited for who waited for me to

905
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:51,959
Speaker 2: sign autographs and have intimate moments of real connection and storytelling.

906
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 2: And I felt like that was the real breakthrough.

907
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just so pertinent to what we're going

908
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 3: through right now. I think we need athletes right now

909
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,399
Speaker 3: because we're up against a really difficult game and there's

910
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 3: a really strong, strong opposition. Yes, and we need to

911
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:13,399
Speaker 3: get information as a team. H And I'm a poet,

912
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 3: so I do this really dangerous thing of dabbling and

913
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 3: metaphors around subjects I really have no expertise about, but

914
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 3: I feel called for them. And I really feel like

915
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 3: sports right now is like a really great metaphor for

916
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 3: what we need that sports psychology is another way to

917
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 3: describe like how to show up right now? Yes, because

918
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:30,959
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people are being psyched out

919
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 3: and then it's going to be a self fulfilling prophecy

920
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:37,240
Speaker 3: because they're coming in with nervousness, they're coming in with skittishness,

921
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 3: they're not offering themselves grace. They are really being self

922
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,359
Speaker 3: debasing and self abusing. And what we actually need right

923
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 3: now is a different way of showing up and showing

924
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 3: up for each other. So I'm going to ask this

925
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 3: is so camp. I'm going to ask you another sports question,

926
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 3: like when you see a teammate faltering on the field

927
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,399
Speaker 3: and you can sense, oh, this person is not doing

928
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 3: well right now, how do you show up with a

929
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 3: strength that allows the other person to know that they're

930
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 3: held by you and they can trust you in that interaction.

931
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 1: That's a great question.

932
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:15,359
Speaker 2: And there's eleven players on the field and we are

933
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,839
Speaker 2: not always going to have a perfect day. I think

934
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 2: the benefit of what we do is how do you

935
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 2: become an asset even on your off days?

936
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,919
Speaker 1: How do you show up in the moments where you're

937
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:29,800
Speaker 1: not at your best?

938
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 2: Because that is life, But how do you become an

939
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 2: asset in those moments and not hinder the people around

940
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 2: you or the team's performance. That's where the breakthrough lies.

941
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 2: And again that applies to life. Yeah, life is fucking

942
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 2: hard right now. For us, it's really toxic, but we

943
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,399
Speaker 2: choose joy. How do we show up for each other

944
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 2: in a world that feels hopeless? How do we come hopeful?

945
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 2: What are our actions?

946
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 3: And how do we win?

947
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: And how do we win?

948
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 3: Because that's another thing I think sports just really taught me.

949
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 3: It's like, I want to win. I don't want to

950
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:14,359
Speaker 3: keep on having a tie over and over and over

951
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 3: and over. I want to win, and I want LGBT

952
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 3: rights to win. I want queer entrance people to win

953
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 3: and to be free and happy. And so we've got

954
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:25,760
Speaker 3: to get it. We've got to get our team together.

955
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 1: We do, we really do.

956
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 3: We got to start normalizing and believing and staying out loud.

957
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 3: We are going to win. We might have to keep

958
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 3: coming back for the tournament over and over again. We

959
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 3: might have to keep training, keep on training, but we

960
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 3: got to keep bouncing back and keep coming back.

961
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 2: Well, any athlete will tell you you learn more from

962
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 2: your failures than you do your wins. Right, So when

963
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 2: we're failing, we have to figure out we still show up,

964
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:54,959
Speaker 2: we still coming, we still come back, and we want more.

965
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 3: Right.

966
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 2: I think with all of this stuff going on in

967
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 2: terms of the noise, it is to silence us, to

968
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 2: send us back into the closet. And you're right, how

969
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 2: do we collectively as a team, even when it feels

970
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 2: like okay, these are maybe we didn't we tied that

971
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,279
Speaker 2: game or loss. We have to keep coming back to

972
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 2: win and that will take all of us. And I

973
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 2: appreciate you showing up constantly to advocate for your truth

974
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 2: and your joy. A. Look, you are an incredible human

975
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 2: that is such a light. You are an absolute unicorn

976
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 2: in every sense of the word. You are magic, and

977
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 2: I want everyone to come out and see you perform

978
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 2: because you are a light in this world and you

979
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 2: are meant to be here in this moment to guide us,

980
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:55,240
Speaker 2: you know, during Pride month, I want us to feel

981
00:52:55,320 --> 00:53:00,399
Speaker 2: this sense of joy you talk about. And please tell

982
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:04,800
Speaker 2: everyone who's watching, who's listening, where they can come see you,

983
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 2: because you are about to leave. You said tomorrow to

984
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 2: go back on this tour. It's it's called Biology.

985
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:12,320
Speaker 3: This one's called Harry's Situation.

986
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:16,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you just finished Biology. New show here, new show?

987
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 2: Yes, tell me more. Where can we find you? Where

988
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 2: can we watch you? Where can we keep up with you?

989
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:25,800
Speaker 3: Yeah? So in June, because of Pride, I'm doing twenty

990
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 3: cities across the US and Canada, and my main goal

991
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 3: was where places that people are like, why would you

992
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:35,439
Speaker 3: go there? I'm there, so I love that and it's

993
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 3: always growing and my agents always like, girls, you need

994
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 3: a break, and I'm like, but I love greup people

995
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 3: and I'm having so much fun, so let's keep going.

996
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 3: So there's going to be more dates to add, but

997
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 3: I genuinely feel like, yes, I love doing podcasts, I

998
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 3: love speaking, I love all of this. But where I

999
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 3: am the truest version of myself is on the stage,

1000
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:55,800
Speaker 3: because there's something sacred to use that work before about

1001
00:53:56,280 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 3: coming together and laughing right now. Fear contru ricks our

1002
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 3: bodies makes us small, Laughter expands us, makes us bigger,

1003
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 3: makes us take up space. And so when I am

1004
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 3: up there cracking jokes that are so inappropriate in grass,

1005
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 3: it's actually out of a deep and sincere belief that

1006
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 3: laughter is what we need right now to get bigger

1007
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 3: and to get stronger.

1008
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,799
Speaker 2: M Well, thank you for being Wide Open, and thank

1009
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 2: you for being here, Thanks for having me.

1010
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:26,360
Speaker 1: All right, We'll see you next week.

1011
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 2: Wide Open with Ashlin Harris is an iHeart women's sports production.

1012
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 1: You can find us on.

1013
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 2: The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1014
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:45,320
Speaker 2: Our producers are Carmen Borca Correo, Emily Maronov, and Lucy Jones.

1015
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 2: Production assistants from Malia Aguidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz,

1016
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 2: Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan

1017
00:54:56,560 --> 00:55:01,320
Speaker 2: and Emily Rudder and I'm your Host, Ashlan Harris and

1018
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: M