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Speaker 2: Taking a look at the markets and specifically what's happening
Speaker 2: in oil markets today. In the aftermath of President Biden's
Speaker 2: comments to the press pool, when asked if there were
Speaker 2: discussions of Israel hitting Iran oil infrastructure and facilities, he
Speaker 2: said that that was being discussed, then trailed off Joe
Speaker 2: and ended with anyway and moved on. So, I guess
Speaker 2: it's a question not only if these discussions are happening,
Speaker 2: if this is what is likely ultimately to happen in
Speaker 2: terms of Israel's response to Aron strike from earlier this week,
Speaker 2: but also if this was ever meant to be made public.
Speaker 3: Correct remembering yesterday the stark response to the idea of
Speaker 3: attacking Ron's nuclear facilities, the answer is no was the
Speaker 3: direct quote. We didn't have definitiveness like that today, And
Speaker 3: of course the president's words can move markets. We're seeing
Speaker 3: that happen in real time, as we just heard from
Speaker 3: Charlie in the crude oil markets. But do you wonder
Speaker 3: the motivations here whether he was trying to act as
Speaker 3: a deterrent or something, because obviously this bounces back on
Speaker 3: the American consumer eventually.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, and at a time where the American consumer already
Speaker 2: might be about to be affected with higher prices for
Speaker 2: goods because of an ongoing doc worker strike in which
Speaker 2: he is supporting the union. It is a variety of
Speaker 2: factors coming together here when it is crunch time for
Speaker 2: voter decision making before this election, and it's not necessarily
Speaker 2: in favor of this administration. Of course, Kamala Harris a
Speaker 2: part of that.
Speaker 5: All this was just.
Speaker 3: Over a month to the election. Nick Wattams is with
Speaker 3: us right now at the table here in Washington. He
Speaker 3: runs our national security coverage in Washington. Nick, I wonder
Speaker 3: your thoughts on this whether the President kind of knew
Speaker 3: where he was going with that when you consider the
Speaker 3: idea of you know, taking out I'm looking at some
Speaker 3: of the graphics on the terminal here, the carg Island terminal,
Speaker 3: for instance, would impact twenty eight million barrels. Wouldn't that
Speaker 3: be destructive? To the American consumer.
Speaker 6: I yes, I this is another one of these situations
Speaker 6: where you know, the President has been relatively buttoned up
Speaker 6: in the last several weeks as the White House has
Speaker 6: looked to put a lot of the focus on Kamala
Speaker 6: Harris as she continues the campaign. Now he's out a
Speaker 6: bit more, and you have another Bidenism type of situation.
Speaker 6: I mean, as you mentioned, there is the contrast between
Speaker 6: the question of would you attack, would you permit an
Speaker 6: attack on the nuclear facilities?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 6: But it's so hard to tell because this is one
Speaker 6: of the situations where a reporter says, hey, would you
Speaker 6: countenance an attack on Israeli oil facilities? And he says,
Speaker 6: we're discussing that, Well, what are we discussing range of
Speaker 6: targets the possibility of an attack? I mean, listen, what
Speaker 6: we do know is behind the scenes, the US is
Speaker 6: really working hard to shape the Israeli response. They believe
Speaker 6: an Israeli response is necessary after that Iranian missile barrage
Speaker 6: on Tuesday, but they don't want it to turn into
Speaker 6: something even bigger. And as you mentioned, an attack on
Speaker 6: oil infrastructure would be very damaging. So I mean, I'm
Speaker 6: sure President is right, they are discussing this, This is
Speaker 6: all they're talking about right now in the National Security Council,
Speaker 6: but really difficult to divine too much from that one common.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm sure what they don't want to see
Speaker 2: happen is for Iran, if its own energy infrastructure is
Speaker 2: attack to say, all right, straight up, her moves, consider
Speaker 2: it closed. No energy is coming out of the Gulf,
Speaker 2: and that has obviously global implications. It's not just us
Speaker 2: consumers that have to be concerned here. If we could
Speaker 2: go back to the nuclear question though, which was a
Speaker 2: definitive no, many people are asking why that is. I
Speaker 2: was fielding some of these questions myself. Why not just
Speaker 2: get rid of the nuclear sites, go after that capacity,
Speaker 2: then you don't have to worry about it. What's the
Speaker 2: answer to that question.
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, for one thing, Iran says it is
Speaker 6: not developing a nuclear weapon. It says that its nuclear
Speaker 6: program is civil as civilian in purpose. So there's that.
Speaker 6: The other issue is that to Iran has spent the
Speaker 6: last many years hardening its nuclear facilities. I mean these
Speaker 6: are deep underground, heavily fortified. We don't know where all
Speaker 6: these facilities are. Obviously intelligence would have some indication, but
Speaker 6: to just fully cripple Iran's nuclear program would be a massive,
Speaker 6: massive undertaking and would require a sustained level of military
Speaker 6: campaigning that is more than just a one off thing.
Speaker 2: I mean that more than just Israel potentially, would that
Speaker 2: require the US.
Speaker 6: I mean, it's difficult to even go there. I mean,
Speaker 6: I don't think the US would be involved, really wants
Speaker 6: to get its own jets and military forces involved, but
Speaker 6: I mean just taking out Iran's I mean, that would
Speaker 6: be as escalatory as it gets. And so I mean
Speaker 6: the question is again energy infrastructure. It's pretty darn escalatory.
Speaker 6: I mean, but this is really one of the crown
Speaker 6: jewels for Iran. It's something they've been working on for years.
Speaker 6: They've dedicated untold resources to it, and it would really
Speaker 6: strike at the heart of the regime. So that's going
Speaker 6: to be a decision.
Speaker 3: Does this have to be a bunker buster though, or
Speaker 3: some massive military attack? We remember, of course, the cyber
Speaker 3: attack right that Israel successfully conducted against those Iranian centrifuges
Speaker 3: that actually set the program back. Can't we be more nuanced?
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, so this is a big question because
Speaker 6: there's a lot that Israel and the US can do
Speaker 6: to Iran that no one would ever know about, I
Speaker 6: mean a cyber attack, something else along those lines, and
Speaker 6: could have devastating consequences. But the problem is when you
Speaker 6: get into a situation where Iran launches two hundred ballistic
Speaker 6: missiles at Israel, Israel has to then do something that shows,
Speaker 6: you know, we've got to use the language you want
Speaker 6: re established to terrence and the signal whatever it is.
Speaker 6: So they're going to have to do something that's very
Speaker 6: public this time. And I think that's really the question
Speaker 6: they're trying to weigh right now.
Speaker 2: All right, Bloomberg's Nick Wadams, is that a busy week
Speaker 2: leading our national security coverage. Thank you so much for
Speaker 2: joining us here on Bloomberg TV and Radio. And of
Speaker 2: course it's been a busy week as well for President
Speaker 2: Biden as he has been dealing with this, talking with
Speaker 2: the national security team, the G seven, we understand, also
Speaker 2: trying to do his job as the President of the
Speaker 2: United States and in some ways consoler in chief as
Speaker 2: he surveys disaster zones here in the US.
Speaker 7: YEP.
Speaker 3: Back in the field again today, a touchdown in Tallahassee
Speaker 3: at the beginning of our last hour, Kayley, of course,
Speaker 3: Kamala Harris surveying the damage. Donald Trump says he's going
Speaker 3: to wait till next week to go to North Carolina
Speaker 3: because he doesn't want to interfere the rescue efforts, remembering
Speaker 3: he was in Georgia.
Speaker 2: On Monday, and of course Joe Biden was in North
Speaker 2: Carolina yesterday's viewing things from the air in the instruction
Speaker 2: and specifically the western part of the state, and our
Speaker 2: next guest has seen that up close and personal as well.
Speaker 2: Republican Congressman Greg Murphy of North Carolina is with us. Congressman,
Speaker 2: thank you for being here. Of course, your district is
Speaker 2: actually on the East Coast and areas that are frequently
Speaker 2: affected by hurricanes, like the outer banks of North Carolina.
Speaker 2: But I know you were there in Asheville yesterday. Can
Speaker 2: you just tell us, sir, what you saw and how
Speaker 2: far we have to go in understanding the true toll
Speaker 2: of this particular disaster.
Speaker 8: This is so much different from the hurricanes and the
Speaker 8: damage that we've experienced out here on the coast because
Speaker 8: while we can park water and it takes a while
Speaker 8: for the water to dissipate in the mountains. It's an
Speaker 8: entirely different issue because fifty acres of land out here
Speaker 8: is flat, fifty acres of land in the mountains gives
Speaker 8: you a V shape. The water comes down very very
Speaker 8: quickly and with great velocity, comes and pushes things through.
Speaker 8: So while we have damage that's sustained, theirs is immediate.
Speaker 8: And you know from the you see one side of
Speaker 8: a mountain okay, other side where there's landslide and literally houses, businesses,
Speaker 8: anything that was anywhere near a creek or a ravine
Speaker 8: are gone. They're gone near flush down the stream Lake Lure.
Speaker 8: About a third of the lake is filled with debris.
Speaker 8: So they're going to be three stages. One is life
Speaker 8: and limb trying to rescue people literally save their lives.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 8: Two is going to be stabilization, make sure people get food, electricity,
Speaker 8: et cetera. And then the rebuild. The rebuild will take many,
Speaker 8: many years to put western North Carolina back together like
Speaker 8: it was before.
Speaker 3: Well, we certainly believe that with the images that we've
Speaker 3: been seeing for our viewers on Bloomberg TV. We're showing
Speaker 3: images of that lake right now. Congressman, it's absolutely shocking
Speaker 3: to see the video coming out on the daily here.
Speaker 3: We all have friends, of course who live in the
Speaker 3: Ashville area, but we're not able to communicate with them
Speaker 3: for the most part. Some of them started raising hands
Speaker 3: a couple of days ago. I heard from another today says,
Speaker 3: I'm very happy to report that we are alive and well.
Speaker 3: And it's just remarkable to think of folks living in
Speaker 3: a world where they're cut off from the rest of
Speaker 3: the world. Sometimes they have the opportunity to catch a
Speaker 3: Wi Fi signal. Most of the time they don't, though,
Speaker 3: And I wonder about the immediate effort here to bring
Speaker 3: people back in touch with the world and bring them
Speaker 3: clean water. What are the next couple of weeks going
Speaker 3: to look like in that effort.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean you bring up a good point, Joe.
Speaker 5: It's clean water.
Speaker 8: That's what people need immediately, things for that, as well
Speaker 8: as their medicines if people run out of those. So
Speaker 8: I mean, the word has been out to go out
Speaker 8: and look for your neighbor. You know, some folks live
Speaker 8: miles apart, or they live, you know, over on the
Speaker 8: other side of the hill.
Speaker 5: Go and check on your neighbor.
Speaker 8: And then we're hearing trickling reports coming in and I
Speaker 8: think we will for the next week plus or so
Speaker 8: of people saying hey, I'm okay. The real sadness is
Speaker 8: going to be when we don't hear from people for
Speaker 8: an extended period of time. Sadly enough, I got asked
Speaker 8: today about body bags and some of the other things
Speaker 8: that we really don't want to talk about, but will
Speaker 8: at some point have to talk about because with again
Speaker 8: the velocity of this storm coming down in ravines like
Speaker 8: it did, people had no time whatsoever to get out.
Speaker 8: You don't plan, you can't plan for this event the
Speaker 8: way it is, and so it's going to be a
Speaker 8: multifaceted recovery of life limb and hopefully we find as
Speaker 8: many people alive and good health as possible.
Speaker 2: Well, we're all hoping for that, Congressman. And when we
Speaker 2: get to that next stage of recovery of rebuilding, it's
Speaker 2: going to come at a cost. I think we all
Speaker 2: know that cost could potentially be incredibly high. So what
Speaker 2: is the role of your Chamber of the House of
Speaker 2: Representatives of Congress here to make sure those costs that
Speaker 2: need is met. What are you hoping to hear from
Speaker 2: the House Speaker who has suggested Congress may need not
Speaker 2: come back before the election as scheduled.
Speaker 8: Yeah, so, I mean, Kaylee, there's money already allotted for FEMA,
Speaker 8: there's already allotted for the rescue efforts now, and for
Speaker 8: housing and these type of things. The rebuilding effort really
Speaker 8: is not going to be anything that's going to do immediate. Again,
Speaker 8: you know, I talked about the three different phases we
Speaker 8: have to make sure people are okay. Sadly enough, you know,
Speaker 8: we've spent I don't know, hundreds of billions of dollars
Speaker 8: on individuals who've come in the country illegally over the
Speaker 8: last three and a half years. Wouldn't be great to
Speaker 8: have that money to actually be able to spend on
Speaker 8: our own people. That money is gone. It's not worth
Speaker 8: really even trying to chase it. But it just shows
Speaker 8: you the dichotomy of planning and trying to care for
Speaker 8: the American people. We will as a country take care
Speaker 8: of western North Carolina, the same thing in Georgia, the
Speaker 8: same thing in Florida. It's going to take a while,
Speaker 8: and it's going to take a lot of money.
Speaker 5: To that end.
Speaker 3: Kamala Harris in Georgia yesterday announcing the federal government will
Speaker 3: cover one hundred percent of the cost of debri removal
Speaker 3: and emergency protective measures for three months to help the
Speaker 3: state recover. When you consider numbers like that, whether it's Georgia,
Speaker 3: the Carolina's Florida, is will that require an additional supplemental
Speaker 3: emergency funding or can that all be covered by what
Speaker 3: the government? By what FEMA has.
Speaker 8: Now, Yeah, I'm not sure she has the authority to
Speaker 8: say that, but regardless, Joe, North Carolina does an excellent
Speaker 8: and has done an excellent job in the state legislature
Speaker 8: putting away money Rainy Day funds five maybe close to
Speaker 8: six billion dollars to take care of incidents that happened
Speaker 8: like this in North Carolina. How that money gets apportioned,
Speaker 8: clean up, debris removal, et cetera, et cetera, all goes
Speaker 8: to you know, who's in charge of the disaster control
Speaker 8: per se. It's going to take a lot of money,
Speaker 8: and it's going to take a lot of resources. You know,
Speaker 8: people are out with chainsaws. You hear those things going crazy.
Speaker 5: You've got to make sure that, you know, God forbid
Speaker 5: a surgeon. We see a lot of.
Speaker 8: Those accidents, but it's going to take a while just
Speaker 8: to get people access for transportation.
Speaker 5: That's first.
Speaker 8: That's first to being able to get out, get to
Speaker 8: their get gas, get healthcare, et cetera, get food. But
Speaker 8: in the long term, there's going to be a lot
Speaker 8: of things that need to be done.
Speaker 2: Well, as we consider what needs to be done in
Speaker 2: North Carolina, I'd like to report point to some reporting
Speaker 2: out of WRAL in Raleigh, who has reported that the
Speaker 2: Lieutenant Governor, who of course is the Republican candidate in
Speaker 2: the gubernatorial reef this cycle, Mark Robinson, was the only
Speaker 2: Council of State member not to vote on Cooper's request
Speaker 2: this week to declare a state of emergency, according to records. This,
Speaker 2: of course, congressman, comes after allegations that Robinson posted a
Speaker 2: variety of messages on porn sites that many have found
Speaker 2: to be disqualifying. Is this someone who deserves to be
Speaker 2: governor of North Carolina as this recovery effort is probably
Speaker 2: still going to be underway.
Speaker 8: Well, you know, Kaylee, I'm not sure what happened there.
Speaker 8: All it takes is a phone call when you get
Speaker 8: on Council of State to agree to something. I can't
Speaker 8: postulate as to why he didn't. I think everybody else did.
Speaker 8: I think that's just a responsibility of government. You know,
Speaker 8: it's going to be after the voters to decide whether
Speaker 8: he is or not. There are a lot of issues
Speaker 8: that people have with what's happened and how it's been
Speaker 8: dealt with. But right now, the main cons my main
Speaker 8: concern is really taking care of the people of western
Speaker 8: North Carolina. The East has really come to their aid.
Speaker 8: You know, they've come to our aid so many times.
Speaker 8: We've seen truck after truck after truck supplies coming from
Speaker 8: the east going west. And so you know, the politics
Speaker 8: will take care of themselves, but people in need right now,
Speaker 8: whether Republican or Democrat, they're the ones that we need
Speaker 8: to take care of.
Speaker 5: The not the party politics.
Speaker 3: Well, we do appreciate the urgency of that matter, Congressman,
Speaker 3: which is why we're glad you could join us today
Speaker 3: and just have a minute left here. Are you getting
Speaker 3: what you need? Can we say to our audience from
Speaker 3: the federal government, from the administration right now and so you.
Speaker 8: Know everybody wants it immediately and be if I've worked
Speaker 8: in disaster situations after Katrina, I went and worked after
Speaker 8: the terrible earthquake in Haiti, just as a physician back
Speaker 8: when before politics. People want things immediately, and we want
Speaker 8: to supply it immediately. But there is a way to
Speaker 8: do things and resources that can come. But please, I
Speaker 8: want folks to remember in their heart of hearts, don't
Speaker 8: forget this. In two weeks, it won't be as big
Speaker 8: in flat the news. People will have such devastating needs
Speaker 8: for weeks, months and years to come. Please, in America,
Speaker 8: don't forget what has happened during this horrible hurricane.
Speaker 3: Well, be sure to be reminding our audience of this. Congressman,
Speaker 3: come back and talk to us when you have another
Speaker 3: update on conditions in North Carolina. It's Greg Murphy, Republican
Speaker 3: from Carolina, North Carolina's third but of course it's the
Speaker 3: western part of the state. As Kayleie mentioned that we've
Speaker 3: got our eyes on and we'll have much more on
Speaker 3: this ask for money and the need for resources in
Speaker 3: the affected states.
Speaker 9: I'm Joe Matthew.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of
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Speaker 2: It's only the third of October, which is incredible to believe.
Speaker 2: Of course, just in the first few days of October,
Speaker 2: we have gotten news today from President Biden that it
Speaker 2: is up for discussion whether Israel is going to strike
Speaker 2: Around's energy facilities, sending oil higher. As Charlie was just mentioning,
Speaker 2: we've also got, of course, a dock worker strike that
Speaker 2: is strangling ports along the East and Gulf Coast potentially
Speaker 2: could have implications for consumer prices in addition to higher
Speaker 2: oil prices. What else, Joe, of course, a hurricane we
Speaker 2: were just speaking about with the congressman from North Carolina.
Speaker 2: And then yesterday evening a new filing unsealed in the
Speaker 2: twenty twenty election subversion case against Donald Trump here in Washington.
Speaker 5: Is that enough?
Speaker 2: Am I missing any What?
Speaker 1: Is it? The third of October?
Speaker 8: Yes?
Speaker 2: Okay, we're three days in.
Speaker 3: Let's assemble the panel, because this is why we have
Speaker 3: a panel. Jeanie Shanzano is back with us today, Democratic
Speaker 3: analyst of course, Bloomberg politics contributor, political science professor at
Speaker 3: Iona University, and Lisa Camusso Miller, republican strategist, former r
Speaker 3: NC communications director and host of the Friday Reporter podcast.
Speaker 3: What do you think, Janie? We were asking until a
Speaker 3: couple of days ago, what would be the oct Hober's surprise?
Speaker 3: Seems like we've got three already and we're only three
Speaker 3: days into the month. These are all stories that could
Speaker 3: potentially impact the outcome of this election.
Speaker 7: Yeah, absolutely, And I was just listening to you guys,
Speaker 7: and it's exhausting to even listen to it.
Speaker 4: And it's only the third.
Speaker 7: So I guess we have to take bets on how
Speaker 7: many more October surprises we get. You know, I don't
Speaker 7: think we could take that many more, but I think
Speaker 7: we'll get them.
Speaker 4: These stories too, unfortunately.
Speaker 7: For the Harris campaign, are for the most part, not
Speaker 7: things that are going to necessarily assist them, And I
Speaker 7: think the biggest challenge for them right now from a
Speaker 7: campaign perspective is what's happening at the ports with that strike.
Speaker 4: I think that can be really.
Speaker 7: Damaging if it becomes an economic problem for the country.
Speaker 4: Certainly will weigh down on the campaign.
Speaker 7: Of course, you know, the question of what's going on
Speaker 7: in the Middle East perennially impacts negatively administrations, and she's
Speaker 7: tied to the administration.
Speaker 4: And then of course the storm and.
Speaker 7: Donald Trump just out today, even in the last few days,
Speaker 7: hitting the administration and Kamala Harris on the response to
Speaker 7: the storm, and in conservative media there is a lot
Speaker 7: of that. So all of this fodder for the campaign
Speaker 7: that they have to be a depth at addressing.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 2: And as we consider what they're going to have to
Speaker 2: address here realistically at a time where we've seen Harris
Speaker 2: gaining ground in polls when it comes to the economy, Lisa,
Speaker 2: how easily can that be unwound if we suddenly see
Speaker 2: a spike in prices at the pump, if people can't
Speaker 2: are ordering ahead for Christmas or the holidays in early
Speaker 2: November and they can't get the goods they want, or
Speaker 2: it's going to take a long time to get them
Speaker 2: because no cargo ships can come into East coast ports,
Speaker 2: just how quickly could minds change.
Speaker 10: Here, Kayleie, I think that this is the one issue
Speaker 10: that they have got to be watching most closely because
Speaker 10: it most directly affects the voter, and so it most
Speaker 10: directly will affect how they feel about the way things
Speaker 10: are unfolding. As this administration winds down, but understanding that
Speaker 10: Kamala Harris is still very much tied to the administration,
Speaker 10: so it's definitely of concern. The other thing to keep
Speaker 10: an eye on not only just the cost of goods
Speaker 10: and services, but if in fact things continue to get
Speaker 10: and stay and even elevate, maybe even in the Middle East.
Speaker 10: The cost of gas alone is one that very very
Speaker 10: much affects the way people vote when it comes to
Speaker 10: making decisions about politics.
Speaker 2: Well, and so as we consider the foreign policy aspects
Speaker 2: of all of this genie, we've been talking about how
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris has made a big deal about being in
Speaker 2: the situation room as this has unfolded in the Middle
Speaker 2: East in recent days, when Iron was sending missiles Israel's
Speaker 2: way earlier this week. Do those domestic concerns outweigh the
Speaker 2: optics of being able to look like someone who could
Speaker 2: be commander in chief, be presidential as they're being vice presidential.
Speaker 2: I just wonder if foreign policy can be still somewhat
Speaker 2: of an advantage for her and less foreign policy is
Speaker 2: causing problems for people at home.
Speaker 7: It can, and one of the interesting things we've seen
Speaker 7: in some of the latest polls is that voters give
Speaker 7: her more credit than Donald Trump, even though he's a
Speaker 7: former president, for her ability to be presidential, if you will,
Speaker 7: And so those numbers have been positive for her. That said,
Speaker 7: there's always a downside to these things. So should something
Speaker 7: happen speaking of an October surprise that weighs negatively on
Speaker 7: the administration in terms of handling what's going on in
Speaker 7: the Middle East, or if we've switched to the other
Speaker 7: hot war in Ukraine and Russia, that could of course
Speaker 7: drag down the ticket as well. And one of the
Speaker 7: knocks on Kamala Harris and quite frankly Tim Waltz is
Speaker 7: that they don't have a good deal of foreign policy experience.
Speaker 7: You know, this was something Barack Obama famously tried to
Speaker 7: get ahead of with his choice of Joe Biden as
Speaker 7: his running mate of Kamala went in another direction with
Speaker 7: Tim Walton. That makes sense, but when foreign policy starts
Speaker 7: to rise as an issue in voter's minds, that can
Speaker 7: weigh down. So these are things they really have to
Speaker 7: be thinking about as they move forward. But this is
Speaker 7: the you know, there's a plus side to being an
Speaker 7: office and in the administration. These are some of the
Speaker 7: concerns that can weigh down on you.
Speaker 3: Well, that's absolutely right. And so Lisa, is this the
Speaker 3: moment where Kamala Harris needs to start separating herself from
Speaker 3: Joe Biden on some of these issues or is she
Speaker 3: handcuffed to this administration for the next five weeks.
Speaker 10: I mean, there's no question about it. She's handcuffed, There's
Speaker 10: no doubt about that. But yes, I think she can
Speaker 10: show some some light between herself and perhaps the way
Speaker 10: Joe Biden perceives these issues. The other thing too to
Speaker 10: consider he is that historically Republicans have voted more favorably
Speaker 10: towards Republicans. They definitely elected to elect Republicans at times
Speaker 10: of international distress, as we're seeing right now. And so
Speaker 10: that's another consideration and why she really needs to show
Speaker 10: some strong leadership and some strong voice and some strong
Speaker 10: points of view in this area. Otherwise people are going
Speaker 10: to regardless of whether or not she and Donald Trump
Speaker 10: both only have four years of the same sort of
Speaker 10: experience as it relates to being president and vice president
Speaker 10: and dealing with foreign affairs, she will have to show
Speaker 10: leadership and have to show strength because otherwise people will
Speaker 10: say and ordinarily as history has shown, they will elect
Speaker 10: to put Republicans in charge because they feel as if
Speaker 10: that party is more well positioned in order to be
Speaker 10: as strong for the country.
Speaker 2: As we consider the state of the race here more broadly,
Speaker 2: of course, Kamala Harris is in Wisconsin today or she
Speaker 2: will be later on this afternoon with an interesting campaignmate,
Speaker 2: if you will, at her side, and former Republican Congresswoman
Speaker 2: Liz Cheney, the daughter of or Vice President Liz Cheney,
Speaker 2: who as early or as recently as twenty twenty before
Speaker 2: the actual election took place, was referring to Kamala Harris
Speaker 2: as a radical liberal who would raise taxes, takeaway guns,
Speaker 2: and health insurance. I'm reading directly from an ex post
Speaker 2: of hers. It was Twitter. Then she says we won't
Speaker 2: give her the chance, and now she's trying to tell
Speaker 2: voters in Wisconsin and elsewhere with her endorsement, they should
Speaker 2: give Kamala Harris the chance. Lisa, is that going to
Speaker 2: pass the smell test to voters who are undecided who
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris maybe trying to draw inside with the likes
Speaker 2: of Liz Cheney.
Speaker 9: I think so.
Speaker 10: I mean, you know, Kaylee, I think your point is good,
Speaker 10: and that is that previously Liz Chaney had very strong
Speaker 10: opinions about Kamala Harris. But I think what we do
Speaker 10: know to be true is that Liz Chaney very much
Speaker 10: also has some strong opinions about Donald Trump, and her
Speaker 10: point of view is that Donald Trump is not only
Speaker 10: the right candidate or excuse me, the wrong candidate for
Speaker 10: the White House, he is one that would take the
Speaker 10: country in the absolute wrong direction. So I think that
Speaker 10: the voters will see this perhaps as an opportunity for
Speaker 10: the parties to come together and for there to be
Speaker 10: some agreement from unlikely partners that were previously definitely not
Speaker 10: in the same position as it relates to what's best
Speaker 10: for the country.
Speaker 3: It's certainly going to be the image of the day
Speaker 3: in politics here, Genie. The optics are fascinating, but what
Speaker 3: are voters supposed to think? Just to add on to
Speaker 3: Kayley's question, when you consider the major issues, I realize
Speaker 3: that they both can't stand Donald Trump and think that
Speaker 3: he's a danger to democracy. But think about the economy, inflation,
Speaker 3: the border, abortion. Liz Cheney wouldn't support any of Kamala
Speaker 3: Harris's positions on these issues, but she's asking voters to
Speaker 3: choose her anyway.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean she's asking them to put I'm sure
Speaker 7: we will hear the phrase put country over party, put
Speaker 7: country over issues, put country over in democracy over everything else.
Speaker 4: That's what we're going to be hearing.
Speaker 7: And by the way, we're hearing that Democrats are going
Speaker 7: to have Republican surrogates on the campaign trail for.
Speaker 4: The next four days.
Speaker 7: And this is not without consequence because you do have
Speaker 7: some Democrats who are opposed to this strategy. They say
Speaker 7: Democrats should be doubling down on the base, not reaching out.
Speaker 7: But Wisconsin, this fifty to fifty state, Democrats have decided
Speaker 7: that in this case it makes sense because this will
Speaker 7: work in a state like Wisconsin. So it is very
Speaker 7: very targeted, but quite opposite of what we see on
Speaker 7: the Republican side. Donald Trump doesn't like to reach out
Speaker 7: a lot. He likes to double down on the base,
Speaker 7: and Democrats are doing something opposite.
Speaker 4: And while I say.
Speaker 7: That, I should just say we did see a little
Speaker 7: reaching out because Milania Trump is out supporting their right
Speaker 7: to choose, and Donald Trump is talking to women, so
Speaker 7: a little bit of reaching out, but usually he is
Speaker 7: doubling down on his base.
Speaker 2: Well, and we saw a little bit of that present
Speaker 2: on the vice presidential debate, state, didn't we, Lisa, when
Speaker 2: jd Vance openly admitted that voters don't trust Republicans on
Speaker 2: the issue of abortion and they need to do better
Speaker 2: on that. Are we about to see a real difference
Speaker 2: in their rhetoric around the reproductive rights issue in these
Speaker 2: final weeks?
Speaker 10: Well, yeah, it sure feels that way, Kayleie. I mean,
Speaker 10: the rhetoric alone on that issue has definitely shifted. And
Speaker 10: it's got to be because they know that the campaign
Speaker 10: knows that unless they soften their point of view and
Speaker 10: soften the words that they're using in this space, they
Speaker 10: are going to lose those swing voters who are not
Speaker 10: with them, and so they've got to figure out a balance,
Speaker 10: and that certainly was very much present on Tuesday night
Speaker 10: during the vice presidential debate.
Speaker 2: All Right, Lisa Camusa Miller and Jeanie Shanzeno our wonderful
Speaker 2: political panel on this Thursday, Thank you both so much
Speaker 2: for joining me. And of course it will be just
Speaker 2: after the late edition of Balance of Power, Joe, that
Speaker 2: we'll see Kamala Harris and Liz Cheney campaigning together in
Speaker 2: the town, of course, where the Republican Party became.
Speaker 9: That's right, the republic Party.
Speaker 3: The optics are curious in this case. We'll see how
Speaker 3: powerful they are in the outcome.
Speaker 5: Here.
Speaker 3: You also wonder how some Republican voters might react to
Speaker 3: this talk about never Trumper's and so forth. John Bolton
Speaker 3: on CNN earlier says he's not writing in Dick Cheney
Speaker 3: any longer for president because he endorsed Kamala Harris. He
Speaker 3: is now considering writing in Ronald Reagan.
Speaker 2: It's still not voting for Donald.
Speaker 3: That's correct, exactly.
Speaker 2: Okay, we'll have much more head here on a Balance
Speaker 2: of Power as we look to the swing state of Georgia.
Speaker 2: Andre Gillespie of Emory University will join us next here
Speaker 2: on Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
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Speaker 3: If you're on the fastest show in politics. Thank you
Speaker 3: for joining us on the Thursday edition of Balance of
Speaker 3: Power Line. I've been Washington with our eyes today on Florida.
Speaker 3: President Biden has just touched down following an aerial tour
Speaker 3: of storm damage. Of course, coming off of Hurricane Helene.
Speaker 3: Marine one was in the air for about forty five minutes,
Speaker 3: according to the press pool, as the President had an
Speaker 3: opportunity to see some of the damage at least from above,
Speaker 3: exactly as he did yesterday in the Carolinas. If we
Speaker 3: have a chance to see what the President is up
Speaker 3: to right now, part of this trip brings him to
Speaker 3: Florida for a briefing. He's hearing from authorities, state officials
Speaker 3: who are dealing with this. If you're with us on
Speaker 3: Bloomberg TV or on YouTube, you see that map with
Speaker 3: officials pointing to the Big bend of Florida, where Speaker
Speaker 3: Mike Johnson is also touring today. Kaylee lines, the implications
Speaker 3: here for the campaign are great. We saw Kamala Harris
Speaker 3: also touring areas in Georgia just yesterday, yep.
Speaker 2: And Georgia is where President Biden is also going to
Speaker 2: be today. We saw Donald Trump in Georgia early this week.
Speaker 2: He did get there days before the incumbent president and
Speaker 2: vice president did to survey the damage. But it does
Speaker 2: raise a lot of questions the timing of this. Obviously,
Speaker 2: the humanitarian aspect and the trying the attempts to save
Speaker 2: lives in places like North Carolina where there are still
Speaker 2: many people unaccounted for, is everyone's priority. But this event
Speaker 2: will have consequence as well beyond that, and of course,
Speaker 2: considering it's timing so close to an election, we do
Speaker 2: have to consider those as well.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Donald Trump put up a message earlier, by the way,
Speaker 3: and I don't know if he's trying to comment on
Speaker 3: the activities that are happening right now. He says, we'll
Speaker 3: be going to North Carolina next week, date to be determined,
Speaker 3: because I don't want to do anything that's going to
Speaker 3: interrupt their rescue efforts. Again, knowing he was in Georgia
Speaker 3: earlier this week. That's specifically why Joe Biden's been doing
Speaker 3: these aerial.
Speaker 2: Tours right well, and Donald Trump had criticized this administration
Speaker 2: for not going to these effected areas sooner.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit confusing.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Ivanka Trump, by the way, was in western North Carolina,
Speaker 3: the real heart of the damage, yes, and he congratulates
Speaker 3: her for doing a great job on that. So the
Speaker 3: politics are alive and well here in the storm zone.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and not just in terms of how it may
Speaker 2: affect voter sentiment, but that is important, but also how
Speaker 2: it could impact people's ability to go out and vote
Speaker 2: at all. If we're talking about roadways that have been destroyed,
Speaker 2: hard to get, for example, absentee ballots, two people, get
Speaker 2: them out, get people to polling stations, given the length
Speaker 2: of time it could take for everything to be normalized here.
Speaker 2: So that's where we begin our conversation with Andre Gillespie,
Speaker 2: who of course is with EMMRA University in Georgia, where
Speaker 2: she is Associate professor of Political Science. Andre, thanks so
Speaker 2: much for being here. We hope you and yours are
Speaker 2: well and we're safe. While Hurricane Helene was carving its
Speaker 2: path of destruction, which obviously was quite significant, how do
Speaker 2: you ultimately see this impacting the election in a state
Speaker 2: like Georgia, which is a critical battleground.
Speaker 4: Well, thank you.
Speaker 11: So it will affect people differently depending on the extent
Speaker 11: of the damage. So people who were critically and adversely
Speaker 11: affected by the storm are probably not thinking about turning
Speaker 11: out to vote. They're worried about other things. They're trying
Speaker 11: to find their loved ones. They're trying to rebuild their lives.
Speaker 11: The local elections officials in these areas are going to
Speaker 11: try to do their level best to make sure that
Speaker 11: people have access to voting facilities, that they have access
Speaker 11: to absentee ballots. But we do understand if people are
Speaker 11: focused on other things. The tragedy here and which I
Speaker 11: don't think will happen, would be if you can't hold
Speaker 11: an election in certain parts of the United States because
Speaker 11: of the storm, and if we look back to other
Speaker 11: natural disasters like Hurricane Sandy, Hurricane Katrina, we do know
Speaker 11: that election officials do figure out ways to make sure
Speaker 11: that everybody who wants to have access to the ballot
Speaker 11: will have access to the ballot. So I'm confident that
Speaker 11: you know that this will be taken care of as
Speaker 11: a result of that. The larger question is the optics,
Speaker 11: and so I think the things that you were mentioning
Speaker 11: before that actually address issues related to you know, empathy
Speaker 11: and how presidential candidates show up in an area is
Speaker 11: something that's very important. There are logistical reasons why a
Speaker 11: sitting president and vice president may delay their entry into
Speaker 11: a region to have a photo op after a natural disaster,
Speaker 11: because they have larger security details, and that was the
Speaker 11: stated reason why President Biden delayed going into the damage zone,
Speaker 11: because he didn't want to be a distraction and actually
Speaker 11: take away from people being able to engage in search
Speaker 11: and rescue. That didn't stop Donald Trump from levying the criticism, though,
Speaker 11: as somebody who's been president before, this may be something
Speaker 11: that he is quite familiar with. But by landing the punch,
Speaker 11: by sort of trying to set the optical tone, he
Speaker 11: was trying to say that the Democrats Kamala Harris included,
Speaker 11: are not empathetic, that they don't care about people like you,
Speaker 11: And so by showing up first, he's trying to stake
Speaker 11: a particular claim that he cares about voters. I think
Speaker 11: it becomes a question of whether or not that resonates.
Speaker 11: And I think for you know, voters who are inclined
Speaker 11: to support him, they're going to be inclined to agree
Speaker 11: with this message. I think the bigger people are the
Speaker 11: low propensity voters, the people who don't always pay attention
Speaker 11: to politics. Do they understand kind of the art of
Speaker 11: the spin here, and would they actually be more susceptible
Speaker 11: to those types of claims.
Speaker 3: All great questions, I don't and is it more than
Speaker 3: just a photo op. I mean, there are some folks
Speaker 3: who say that people impacted by a disaster like this
Speaker 3: actually take heart and seeing political leaders come by their
Speaker 3: pay attention, maybe deliver some promises for help, or is
Speaker 3: it just a self serving trip to get elected.
Speaker 11: Empathy matters. That reflects on the president's character, and that
Speaker 11: certainly is going to reflect on whether or not a
Speaker 11: person wants to vote for somebody to be president of
Speaker 11: the United States. And so somebody who appears to be
Speaker 11: uncaring or unfeeling is somebody who is not necessarily going
Speaker 11: to be moved by any material aid. So it's really important.
Speaker 11: And so there was no question that the presidential candidates
Speaker 11: were going to show up in the disaster zone at
Speaker 11: some point. The thing that we're arguing about here with
Speaker 11: respect to the optics is the timing of it. And
Speaker 11: so it could actually be quite empathetic and actually quelle
Speaker 11: quite selfless to wait to show up in an area
Speaker 11: if your presence would be a distraction from the very
Speaker 11: real and necessary efforts that need to be made to
Speaker 11: try to find people alive. But that won't necessarily stop
Speaker 11: your opponents from trying to spend. Then there's the material
Speaker 11: aspect of it, and so disaster declarations are important, and
Speaker 11: so there have been empirical studies that look at disaster
Speaker 11: declarations and how that relates to vote choice in subsequent elections.
Speaker 11: And so if a president declares an area a disaster area,
Speaker 11: that does actually have a positive impact on support for
Speaker 11: that party, you know, us in you know, the election
Speaker 11: that's immediately after, particularly for disasters that take place right
Speaker 11: before a presidential election. And so there was no question
Speaker 11: in my mind that Joe Biden was going to declare
Speaker 11: the areas affected by Hurricane Helene natural disasters, not just
Speaker 11: because they are clearly natural disasters, but because he's not
Speaker 11: going to do anything to try to jeopardize his vice
Speaker 11: president's chances of being able to succeed him as president.
Speaker 2: Obviously, Andra this storm is just one of the things
Speaker 2: that have hit the news wires and physically hit the country,
Speaker 2: of course, in the last week, as we consider other
Speaker 2: news stories here the dock workers strike, what's going on
Speaker 2: in the Middle East, and also what dropped yesterday one
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty five page filing by Special Counsel Jack Smith,
Speaker 2: and the election subversion case here in Washington around the
Speaker 2: twenty twenty election, in the events of January sixth of
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, but it goes into detail with what
Speaker 2: Donald Trump was doing in each of the individual battleground states,
Speaker 2: including Georgia, where of course, he was also indicted in
Speaker 2: a racketeering case related to his efforts to overturn the
Speaker 2: results in that state. Knowing that trial is not going
Speaker 2: to go forward before this election is over, it's unclear, frankly,
Speaker 2: if it ever will. Does a filing like this reignite
Speaker 2: in the minds of some Georgia voters happened in their
Speaker 2: state what he argued happened in their state that did
Speaker 2: not in twenty twenty and potentially have the power to
Speaker 2: change minds.
Speaker 11: Well, it certainly raises it to the top of the
Speaker 11: news cycle, because this is something that had fallen off
Speaker 11: the radar. But just because it's risen to the top
Speaker 11: of the news cycle doesn't necessarily mean that it's changing
Speaker 11: people's minds about what they think. I think people's opinions
Speaker 11: about the January sixth trial in federal court and the
Speaker 11: Georgia election interference case are probably pretty hardwired and baked
Speaker 11: into the cake but this brings us up as a reminder,
Speaker 11: and there are voters in Georgia who do actually care
Speaker 11: about the health of democratic institutions. A recent poll by
Speaker 11: the Atlanta Journal Constitution that was released in September indicated
Speaker 11: that questions about democracy were among the top issues that
Speaker 11: voters stated as their important reasons for voting in this election,
Speaker 11: second only to questions about inflation. So democracy actually beats
Speaker 11: it's a statistical tie, but in terms of absolute numbers,
Speaker 11: it actually beat sort of questions about the economy, you know,
Speaker 11: if we take if we disaggregate them as the AJC
Speaker 11: did from inflation. So these are issues that are important.
Speaker 11: This is certainly something that that people who are supportive
Speaker 11: of Vice President Harris could point to as saying this
Speaker 11: is a reason to participate in this election and a
Speaker 11: reason to vote democratic. So I expect that people will
Speaker 11: be doing this. But I think for the most part,
Speaker 11: people's opinions about whether or not they think the prosecution
Speaker 11: is justified or whether they think this is a politically
Speaker 11: motivated which hunt we're baked into the cake A long
Speaker 11: time ago.
Speaker 3: Well, Professor the AJAC has another story today about Republicans
Speaker 3: in Georgia who want to vote for Kamala Harris, and
Speaker 3: I wonder your thought on this. We're talking about the
Speaker 3: former Lieutenant Governor Jeff Duncan, not a surprise. Former Congressman
Speaker 3: Joe Walsh of Illinois, not a surprise. If we're dealing
Speaker 3: with people Republicans tend to see or call rhinos for
Speaker 3: lack of a better term, do they help the unlock
Speaker 3: Republican votes for the Democrat I.
Speaker 11: Don't think they're trying to unlock the Maga wing of
Speaker 11: the Republican Party in Georgia. You know, you might call
Speaker 11: it the Marjorie Taylor Green wing of the party. Like
Speaker 11: those folks are unpersuadable. They are micro targeting a specific
Speaker 11: subset of Georgia voters. So in the twenty twenty election,
Speaker 11: more people cast a ballot for David Kemp and the
Speaker 11: David Kemp John Ossoff Senate race than they did for
Speaker 11: Donald Trump in the presidential race. They're looking at the
Speaker 11: people who cast ballots for Brian Kemp but then couldn't
Speaker 11: vote for herschel Walker in both the general and the
Speaker 11: runoff election. And what they're looking for is a really
Speaker 11: small margin. To remember, Georgia's margin in twenty twenty was
Speaker 11: less than twelve thousand votes. They are looking at the
Speaker 11: seventy seven thousand people who voted for Nicki Hayley in
Speaker 11: the primaries. Only about twenty thousand of them are people
Speaker 11: who had voted Democratic in the twenty twenty presidential primary.
Speaker 11: So they think that there may be this available pool
Speaker 11: of more than fifty five thousand voters who could be
Speaker 11: persuaded to vote for Harris or to skip the presidential
Speaker 11: race in to vote down ballot, and that might be
Speaker 11: the margin between winning or losing a state where we
Speaker 11: expect that the margins are going to be small, whether
Speaker 11: it's twelve thousand or one hundred and fifty thousand votes,
Speaker 11: those votes could matter, and they actually dovetail with Harris's
Speaker 11: national strategy. I mean, there's a Republicans for Kamala group,
Speaker 11: there's an Evangelicals for Kamala group that's focusing on white evangelicals,
Speaker 11: the group that's overwhelmingly Republican amongst evangelical Christians. So you
Speaker 11: know this, you know is trying to leave no stone
Speaker 11: on turn and to find every possible vote that could help.
Speaker 2: Finally, Andre we did get some separate news out of
Speaker 2: Georgia today the state's Attorney general asking the Supreme Court
Speaker 2: to reinstate the restrictive six week abortion ban that of
Speaker 2: course was struck down by a judge in Fulton County
Speaker 2: just earlier this week, which would make it go back
Speaker 2: up to twenty two weeks, through which the procedure would
Speaker 2: be allowed to what extent If this is indeed reput
Speaker 2: into place, this six week ban, will that change voter behavior?
Speaker 2: As this is happening so close to election day?
Speaker 11: So, you know, I think that for voters for whom
Speaker 11: abortion is an issue, this is still going to be
Speaker 11: an issue because it's tied to a larger national issue
Speaker 11: about the overturning of Roe versus Weight in the Supreme
Speaker 11: Court and about electing judges who you know might be
Speaker 11: sensitive to abortion rights. It's not surprising that Attorney General
Speaker 11: Chris Carr would actually try to stop this, And it
Speaker 11: should be noted that the same judge overturned the ban
Speaker 11: earlier and is now trying to make a state constitutional argument,
Speaker 11: and so that sort of, you know, is precipitating Attorney
Speaker 11: General cars filing in this case. And so you know,
Speaker 11: I expect that this is going to go on appeal,
Speaker 11: and I think most people are probably braced for the
Speaker 11: fact that Judge mcburney's decision could easily be overturned on appeal.
Speaker 3: Professor, it's great to have you back, Andre Gillespie, Professor
Speaker 3: of political Science at Emory University.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast Just
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Speaker 1: Say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 3: I wanted to take a deeper dive on what we
Speaker 3: learned in this brief. It's one hundred and sixty five pages.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you had a chance to curl
Speaker 3: up with it last night, but there are actually elements
Speaker 3: that are new here to the story in the days
Speaker 3: leading up to January sixth, and what happened inside the
Speaker 3: White House on that day, the former president's conversations with
Speaker 3: his advisors, in many cases acknowledging the fact that some
Speaker 3: of the ideas being floated here about fake electors and
Speaker 3: you know, space lasers getting into voting machines, and some
Speaker 3: of this was crazy, as he made clear. But the
Speaker 3: point of it again is to get to the personal
Speaker 3: motivation and skirt the Supreme Court ruling on presidential immunity.
Speaker 3: So for help on this, we needed to talk to
Speaker 3: Robert mcwurder. I'll tell you what, it's been a long
Speaker 3: time since we've talked to Robert mcwader, criminal and constitutional
Speaker 3: law attorney who was a daily feature on this program
Speaker 3: when Donald Trump was in court every day. Robert, I
Speaker 3: started thinking the other day, I hope somebody sues someone
Speaker 3: so I can talk to mister mcwerder. It's great to
Speaker 3: see you. Welcome back here. We are you know this
Speaker 3: case as well as anybody, having spent a lot of
Speaker 3: time talking about it. When we thought there might be
Speaker 3: a trial before the election. We should remind our viewers
Speaker 3: and listeners there's not going to be one. But this
Speaker 3: does give us a sense, doesn't it about how Jack
Speaker 3: Smith would try to prosecute this case.
Speaker 9: Oh? Yes, Jack Smith is a good lawyer. He lays
Speaker 9: out his case very well, and as you said, there's
Speaker 9: facts that we haven't heard, and we can also glean
Speaker 9: it's somewhat speculation, but you can kind of tell who
Speaker 9: the people are who are turning around a pointing the
Speaker 9: finger back at Donald Trump.
Speaker 3: What jumps out to you here that would actually make
Speaker 3: a difference in court. He's actually gone back to the
Speaker 3: drawing board to make it clear that Donald Trump was
Speaker 3: being motivated personally here. He funded, specifically the January sixth
Speaker 3: speech on the Ellipse, funded and organized by private individuals.
Speaker 3: Donald Trump promoted it on his campaign account. The speech delivered,
Speaker 3: it says, was a campaign rally. Is that what matters?
Speaker 8: Oh?
Speaker 9: Yes, because these conversations with specific staffers show Donald Trump's
Speaker 9: mental intent. There's a lot of actions you can do
Speaker 9: that could be subject to multiple interpretations. But if you
Speaker 9: have somebody who says, oh, yeah, he said I'm going
Speaker 9: in that bank to robit, for instance, well that establishes
Speaker 9: that there's intent to rob a bank. Donald Trump very
Speaker 9: clearly says, in front of staffers who are now turning
Speaker 9: against him and family members that he's doing this. He
Speaker 9: knew perfectly well he lost. He still knows he lost
Speaker 9: in twenty twenty, but he's doing it just to keep
Speaker 9: fighting and helping his own interests at the expense of
Speaker 9: American Democa, showing.
Speaker 3: In trial that Donald Trump and his allies often made
Speaker 3: up statistics that were cut from whole cloth. As a
Speaker 3: quote from the report here alleging thirty six thousand non
Speaker 3: citizens cast ballots in Arizona, changing it to a few
Speaker 3: hundred thousand, eventually revising it back to forty or fifty thousand,
Speaker 3: then to thirty two thousand, and backup to the original
Speaker 3: thirty six thousand. Instances like this bring up the credibility issue. Obviously,
Speaker 3: does it matter in court? Oh?
Speaker 9: Yes, most certainly does. And it's interesting how those numbers
Speaker 9: fluctuate based on what Donald Trump thinks he needs to
Speaker 9: change the result in a given election. Oh, we don't
Speaker 9: need a full forty thousand. Let's just go with thirty six.
Speaker 9: It's just stuff made out of whole cloth. You know,
Speaker 9: what's going on here is just fascinating. Jack Smith filed
Speaker 9: this motion. Usually what happens in a criminal case, execution
Speaker 9: presents the indictment. These are the charges, and then the
Speaker 9: defense files motions. Jack Smith decided to file the motion
Speaker 9: kind of preemptively because the US Supreme Court said the
Speaker 9: president has immunity for official official acts, but did not
Speaker 9: define what is an official act. So Jack Smith came
Speaker 9: in and said, look, these are not official acts, and
Speaker 9: therefore they are subject to prosecution. And I'll go a
Speaker 9: bit further. He had a real clever kind of answer
Speaker 9: to how you decide in this context. We've all heard
Speaker 9: of the Hatch Act. The Hatch Act says that while
Speaker 9: you're a public official on the public dying, you can't
Speaker 9: be campaigned. So what people do in campaigns and public
Speaker 9: offices they put on their campaign hat, which is pride
Speaker 9: a time, and then they put on their government hat,
Speaker 9: which is subject to the Hatch Act, which means they
Speaker 9: can't campaign for a candidate. Now, the problem has always
Speaker 9: been the blurring of those two, but those are the standards, right. Well,
Speaker 9: what Jack Smith has done is said, look, the standard
Speaker 9: for den what's an official act. You can use the
Speaker 9: Hatch Act as an example. So whenever these people are
Speaker 9: running around not doing their official government business, but are
Speaker 9: doing things to perpetuate their candidate, Donald Trump, this is
Speaker 9: clearly not an official act of the president. And what
Speaker 9: he's basically done is given the Supreme Court a benchmark
Speaker 9: for deciding these issues. Whether this Supreme Court will take
Speaker 9: it or not as an open question, but he's given
Speaker 9: to judge this benchmark, and that I find a legal
Speaker 9: very interesting legal move which gives a standard well, and
Speaker 9: I do not think Trump will do very well under
Speaker 9: that standard.
Speaker 3: I think it's fascinating as a person who asks politicians
Speaker 3: elected officials questions for a living and frequently has the
Speaker 3: Hatch Act cited back to me for where they cannot
Speaker 3: answer that question. But I'm going to add another layer
Speaker 3: to this, getting to what you're talking about here, the
Speaker 3: events of what happened, the events of January fourth, twenty
Speaker 3: twenty one. This is two days before, of course, the
Speaker 3: attack on the Capitol. In the rally that we're talking
Speaker 3: about here, a meeting that Donald Trump held with his
Speaker 3: legal representatives, he asked pat Sippolini to leave the room, right,
Speaker 3: so the official government lawyer to leave the room so
Speaker 3: he could stay talking with John Eastman. Sippolini would not
Speaker 3: discuss that moment when he was asked about it by Congress.
Speaker 3: But it gets to the heart of this matter, doesn't it.
Speaker 9: Well, Yeah, because Sippolini says, look, I've still got my
Speaker 9: Hatch Act on my hat. In other words, he's saying, look,
Speaker 9: I can't do this government. I'm gonna leave. Then he's
Speaker 9: left with Eastman, who clearly is just working for Donald
Speaker 9: Trump in the campaign, and those conversations are in should
Speaker 9: in no way be protected by presidential IMMUNI. Look, there's
Speaker 9: a little gray here here, and I'll give you a
Speaker 9: historic example. During the late eighteen hundreds, after the Civil War,
Speaker 9: Ulysses Grant was very concerned with the way the Khlukuks
Speaker 9: Klan was suppressing the Black vote and murdering people in
Speaker 9: the South, and he had official conversations under his duties
Speaker 9: of the fourteenth and fifteenth Amendments to suppress that, to
Speaker 9: stop that. He was stopping essentially the voter fraud and
Speaker 9: manipulation that was perpetuated by the Klan. Now that is
Speaker 9: clearly an official act in the subject of voter registration, etc.
Speaker 9: That is an official act of the President Donald Trump.
Speaker 9: Unlike President Grant, Donald Trump is not doing that. In fact,
Speaker 9: he's doing the exact opposite. He's just doing it to
Speaker 9: perpetuate himself. Now, Ulysses Grant would have received a benefit
Speaker 9: as a Republican supporting the black vote at that time,
Speaker 9: because the Black vote were overwhelming the support of Republican
Speaker 9: Presidents Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses brand But that was an
Speaker 9: official act. What Donald Trump did is clearly different, and
Speaker 9: that's somehow historically how you can tell the distinction on
Speaker 9: this of what our presidents should or should not do.
Speaker 5: Got it.
Speaker 3: This is why we call Robert macwerder because he boils
Speaker 3: it down in such an effective way. Criminal and constitutional
Speaker 3: law attorney Robert is great to see you stay close
Speaker 3: with us as we learn more about where this is heading. Yeah,
Speaker 3: producer James says, it's time for the Hatch Act hats
Speaker 3: to get on the BOP website. We'll work on it
Speaker 3: right here on Bloomberg. Thanks for listening to the Balance
Speaker 3: of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already,
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Speaker 3: at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.