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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome. You're listening to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest this week he's Jim Garno. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of parapatetic career in music business. He's been a fan,

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Speaker 1: he's been a punker, he's been a promoter, he's been

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Speaker 1: a label executive, he's been a manager. He's done it all. Jim,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast. Thank you, Bob. Nice to be here. Now.

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Speaker 1: You grew up in upstate New York. Right. I was

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Speaker 1: raised in Rochester, New York. Yeah, My both my mother

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Speaker 1: and father each had one job and they were worked

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Speaker 1: for Eastman Kodak. Really did they move there for the job?

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Speaker 1: They were raised in Rochester, New York. We moved out

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Speaker 1: here in seventy two for eighth grade. When I was

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Speaker 1: in eighth grade, my dad got a transfer. He sold

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Speaker 1: X ray film for Eastman Kodak. I often think of

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Speaker 1: Eastman Kodek as the original, you know, company that was

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Speaker 1: digitally disrupted. You know, of course that's a story, but

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Speaker 1: a while you're from Rochester. And but the reason I

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Speaker 1: mentioned that is whenever we talk, you talk about your

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Speaker 1: sister turning you onto records. That's true, It's true, I'm

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Speaker 1: and I uh. I don't remember watching the Beatles. I

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Speaker 1: remember the reaction of my parents watching the Beatle, which

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Speaker 1: was what they just stood. They stood and watched from

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Speaker 1: over in the corner and they did not like it

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Speaker 1: at all. I know they didn't like it, and they

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Speaker 1: complained about the hair um. And I remember my sisters

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Speaker 1: records and I still have some of them. I just

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Speaker 1: showed my eleven year old an old Herman's Hermit's record

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Speaker 1: and an old Holly's record that that has my sister's

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Speaker 1: name on it, that that I still have. I retained somehow. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's funny because somebody sent me a turntable replace the

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Speaker 1: one that I had was kind of sketchy, and I

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Speaker 1: whipped out some of those old records and you always

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Speaker 1: wrote your name on it, even had Dimo tape and

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Speaker 1: you stuck it right on. They couldn't believe what was

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Speaker 1: written on the back. You know, whoever wrote those bios,

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Speaker 1: you know, because they are so corny and say you know,

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Speaker 1: but there's a charm to it. You know. It was

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Speaker 1: of the era. Since we're talking about the Beatles. I

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Speaker 1: just remember my mother left in November six to go

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Speaker 1: out on a Friday night, she said, you have to

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Speaker 1: watch this band on Jack Part Jack Part, the Nightly Show,

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Speaker 1: the Tonight Show. But now he had a Friday night

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Speaker 1: show that I have this band from England, the Beatles,

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Speaker 1: And what it was was a video shot from the

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Speaker 1: back of the theater of them doing she Loves You,

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Speaker 1: which of course we couldn't understand because there was so

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Speaker 1: much yelling. It was we I thought it was we

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Speaker 1: loved too, and of course we laughed. And then in January,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I want to hold your hand

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Speaker 1: hit and it was mega. And I remember watching on

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Speaker 1: Ed Sullivan where we took out our brownie cameras and

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Speaker 1: we shot pictures of the television. People may not know,

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Speaker 1: but what you get is a blank screen. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know that, no, because the reflection from the flash you

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Speaker 1: get nothing on screen. I mean, everything is much more

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Speaker 1: sophisticated now. But did you know you were a music fan? No? No, no.

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Speaker 1: But one of the little anecdote about my sister in

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Speaker 1: the Beatles, she bought me a black light poster Sergeant

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Speaker 1: Pepper right on Sergeant Pepper came out and they hung

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Speaker 1: it in my room. She hung it up in my

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Speaker 1: room and at the same time. I was always a

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Speaker 1: newspaper reader. I read the paper every morning. I always

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Speaker 1: read the because of the sports scores, probably the sports scores,

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Speaker 1: but I remember, you know, we had snow days, and

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Speaker 1: I remember I would go downstairs and and and the

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Speaker 1: heating events were on the floor, and I'd sit in

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Speaker 1: front of the heating bed and i'd I'd read the

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Speaker 1: comics probably first, and then kind of venture into sports

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Speaker 1: in order. But I read an article about LSD and

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Speaker 1: it talked about I couldn't have been more than nine,

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Speaker 1: but i'd read and it talked about a guy. It

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Speaker 1: showed a picture of his face kind of haywire like

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Speaker 1: you'd be tripping, and that he jumped off a building.

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Speaker 1: And I remember I went to bed and I had

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Speaker 1: read about the Beatles and drugs, and you know, I

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Speaker 1: knew what was I had some idea what was going on,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not sure exactly how I knew, but I

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Speaker 1: woke up having nightmares and my dad had to come

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Speaker 1: in and take the black light poster of Sergeant Pepper

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Speaker 1: down was terrible. Did you have a drug career yourself

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Speaker 1: a career? Did you, I think? Did you ultimately take LSD?

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Speaker 1: And what do you worry about jumping off a building.

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Speaker 1: I probably worried about it. Yeah, you know, I mean

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Speaker 1: that was heavy stuff. It really really was. That was

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Speaker 1: you know. I always used to kid with the guys

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Speaker 1: that we would do took a day to prepare, a

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Speaker 1: day to do it, and then a day to recover

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Speaker 1: from it. You know, we would we would find ourselves,

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Speaker 1: you know, at Disneyland on Pirates of the Caribbean or

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Speaker 1: the or the mon Santo where it was shrinking, you know,

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Speaker 1: and things like that. That was kind of the Remember

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Speaker 1: going to the cable car Disneyland. That's we used to

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Speaker 1: smoke dope, okay, because you went from one end to

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Speaker 1: the other. Oh yeah, the people mover. So in any event,

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Speaker 1: you're in Rochester, you're reading the newspaper. What else. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I am big sports basketball. I I had that that.

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Speaker 1: Uh you know, our block was here, Our church was

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Speaker 1: the next block. I went to a Catholic school, you know,

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Speaker 1: tie dress up. I served Mass in the morning, would

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Speaker 1: walk there, had a paper route in the morning, trudging

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Speaker 1: in the snow, doing all those kind of things. I

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Speaker 1: remember vividly going next door to Kevin dowt Our next

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Speaker 1: door neighbor's house and I would open the porch and

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Speaker 1: you'd smell the newsprint and you had to take the

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Speaker 1: wire cutters and pop and it would go bam and

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Speaker 1: it would explode. And I'm telling you, if you were

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Speaker 1: anywhere near, it would take your eye out. And you

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Speaker 1: had to fold the newspapers into thirds and put them

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Speaker 1: in your bag because you had to open the storm

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Speaker 1: door and throw the paper up and then get the

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Speaker 1: door shut, because that they didn't just throw him on

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Speaker 1: the driveway in the snow, you know, you had to

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Speaker 1: deliver it inside the storm door. And so he would

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Speaker 1: leave me three rows of numbers. The first row of

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Speaker 1: numbers my street, totally comfortable, no big deal. I know

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Speaker 1: that second street, Verena Drive, I kind of knew it

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Speaker 1: was okay. The third street, glenn Ellen Way, kind of terrifying.

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Speaker 1: It's still dark, I don't know the houses. You have

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Speaker 1: to kind of navigate to find the number, and it

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Speaker 1: was a little bit scary by the time I would

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Speaker 1: get there. But I would finish up on glenn Ellen

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Speaker 1: Way and it would end right near this bar, and

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Speaker 1: I remember the smell of the bar and that alcohol

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Speaker 1: on the ground and it's stunk and as I walked

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Speaker 1: behind it, I would cut and there would be an

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Speaker 1: opening in the alley and there was Dunkin Donuts, And

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Speaker 1: if I had a paper to left, I'd stand out

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Speaker 1: front Dunkin Donuts and I'd sell the paper and I

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Speaker 1: go sit at the count and have a hot chocolate.

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Speaker 1: And I thought I was grown up. Did you get

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Speaker 1: a paper route because your parents told you to earn

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Speaker 1: money or you wanted money? I wanted money. I wanted money.

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Speaker 1: They didn't. I never got an allowance as a kid.

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Speaker 1: You know, paper route you can actually make some decent money.

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Speaker 1: And so what did you do with the money? I

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Speaker 1: saved it. I remember I bought a Shwin ten speed

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Speaker 1: that it was a hundred five dollars. I said, saved

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Speaker 1: all that and bought a Shwin ten speed. My parents,

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Speaker 1: I never felt wanting for anything in terms of the necessities.

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Speaker 1: But they were never going to give you the stereo

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Speaker 1: like the other kid got. There was no way, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean? What about your own kids? You

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Speaker 1: make them work? No, no, they do chores and things.

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Speaker 1: But I'll tell you the interesting thing. I've had this

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Speaker 1: conversation with quite a few people about raising kids who

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Speaker 1: have a lot of stuff. They want their money. You know,

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Speaker 1: where they will I think find their ambition and motivation

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Speaker 1: is they do not like to come to me to

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Speaker 1: ask for stuff, and they don't like being told no,

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Speaker 1: and they don't like they don't like my input. They

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Speaker 1: want their own, you know, And I can see it

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Speaker 1: where that will be the motivating factor for them. You know,

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Speaker 1: you think that, well, gosh, if a kid got a

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Speaker 1: car when they were sixteen, how are they ever going

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Speaker 1: to be motivated to do anything in life? Why about

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Speaker 1: the car? When they want another one, they're gonna buy

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Speaker 1: the car. And they don't like coming to you and asking,

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Speaker 1: That's the thing, you know, they really don't. And I

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Speaker 1: see it with my two oldest ones nineteen ones almost seventeen.

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Speaker 1: They want the autonomy and the independence of not having

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Speaker 1: to ask their parents for stuff. So we'll see that's

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Speaker 1: a big experiment parenting and we could right. So when

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Speaker 1: you hear that you're going to be moving to California,

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Speaker 1: is that a good I'm super excited. The Los Angeles

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Speaker 1: Lakers are my favorite basketball team. It's the Wilt Chamberlain

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Speaker 1: Jerry West seventy two season where they go sixty and

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Speaker 1: thirteen I'm a huge Wilt fan. I remember the game

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Speaker 1: he played against the Bucks with Louell Cinder and it

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Speaker 1: goes into overtime and he's got five fouls and he

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Speaker 1: blocks Kareem shot, and he has one of the greatest

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Speaker 1: records of all time. He's never felled out of game

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Speaker 1: in high school, college, or his professional career. And he's

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Speaker 1: still on the court and he blocks a shot, and

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Speaker 1: that's an incredible statistic. So I was a big fan

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Speaker 1: of his. He could rebound, he could do assists, he

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Speaker 1: could do anything. I loved Will And I'm coming to

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Speaker 1: the land of the Lakers. Did your father take you

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Speaker 1: to the game? Never? Never took me to a game.

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Speaker 1: Did he come to your sports when you were growing up? Occasionally,

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Speaker 1: my dad traveled. He spent about ten days a month

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Speaker 1: on the road. Later on, when I was at one

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Speaker 1: of my son's baseball games, he said, I really regret

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Speaker 1: not having done that. I said, Dad, you were born.

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Speaker 1: He was born on his kitchen table. My father was

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Speaker 1: raised with two foster kids in his home. He had

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Speaker 1: two brothers, but his parents took in foster kids to

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Speaker 1: make ends meet. My mom was raised off and on

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Speaker 1: in Catholic orphanages and foster homes. So they had a

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Speaker 1: tough you know. And I said, Dad, your point of

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Speaker 1: view was not, Hey, how do I go hang out

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Speaker 1: and do all the contemporary parenting things. You're concerned? Am

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Speaker 1: I gonna have enough money? Get my kid to school?

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Speaker 1: We're gonna have clothes? Are We're gonna That was a

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Speaker 1: legitimate concern for you. And because of that, I said

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Speaker 1: to him, I don't ever think about those things. I

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Speaker 1: always know I was gonna be Okay, that's a gift.

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Speaker 1: You didn't have that gift. So you moved to southern California.

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Speaker 1: Were exactly do you move? Fullerton, California. Now that's far

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Speaker 1: from the beach home of the electric guitar. It's a

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Speaker 1: straight shot down brook her Store Beach Boulevard on the O. C.

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Speaker 1: T D by the way, So it's not horrible that

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Speaker 1: gets you into Huntington Beach. Okay, So how did you

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Speaker 1: get into music? Really? My sister played a big, big part.

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Speaker 1: I was really really a fan. I remember going to

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Speaker 1: singer you know, the sewing machine shop, and uh, I

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Speaker 1: want to say, Easy to Be Hard was my first

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Speaker 1: single that I bought, you know, And and I started

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Speaker 1: collecting singles, and she had her record player, and I

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Speaker 1: had a record player, and uh, I would connect multiple

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Speaker 1: speakers to it, so I'd have like eight speakers in

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Speaker 1: my room. I thought I was like creating some sort

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Speaker 1: of audio system, you know, but it was just I

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Speaker 1: just remember, you know, I really didn't know a much

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Speaker 1: about electronics, right, And I hooked up the external speaker

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Speaker 1: without an Apple fire and blew out the whole house.

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Speaker 1: Did you really? Absolutely? Oh, I have a photo I'll

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Speaker 1: show you when we take a a moment. You can

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Speaker 1: see basketball posters in my bedroom, and then you see

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Speaker 1: a David Bowie poster and Jimi Hendrix, and the transition

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Speaker 1: is coming, you know what I mean. You can see

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Speaker 1: the the sports stuff moving off the wall and the

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Speaker 1: rock stuff starting to happen. Okay, now, but you say

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Speaker 1: that you grew up with these people and you were

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Speaker 1: part of the punk rock scene. Well that's that's years later. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So then a little bit slower, So you suddenly are

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Speaker 1: getting into music. You're in a high school, you're just

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Speaker 1: living a regular high school life. Or does music become

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Speaker 1: your passion? Music's everything? Music is? You know, when when

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Speaker 1: you want to say freshman year, was the first time

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Speaker 1: where all of a sudden, buddy of mine looked and goes,

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Speaker 1: you want to try pot? Yeah, what do we do?

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Speaker 1: You know? In your fourteen your kid, let's talk to

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Speaker 1: this guy, you know, and you go and and you

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Speaker 1: get your little yellow zigzag papers and your four finger

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Speaker 1: bag of really bad you know, but I remember when

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Speaker 1: Bucks was the good stuff in You know, when you

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Speaker 1: talk about this a lot, and I've talked about this

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Speaker 1: with you a lot, all of a sudden, you're part

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Speaker 1: of a community. There's something going on. You're bonded to somebody.

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Speaker 1: Because in three it's still a criminal offense. It's not

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Speaker 1: been decriminalized. This is a This is not an era

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Speaker 1: where people are saying, oh, I smoked, but I didn't

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Speaker 1: Inhale or multiple presidents have admitted to it. It's like

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Speaker 1: a problem. You're bound to that community and you find

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Speaker 1: that when you go to a concert, that whole community

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Speaker 1: is there. You're all together. Okay, So where did you

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Speaker 1: go to concerts? Oh? You go to Anaheim Convention Center.

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Speaker 1: You know there. I remember seeing Crosby and Nash there

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Speaker 1: and James Taylor there and Peter Frampton before broke out,

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Speaker 1: and it'd go to the Long Beach Arena. I remember

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Speaker 1: going to Long Beach Arena for the Forum, right, and

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Speaker 1: where did you get the money? And how did you

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Speaker 1: get there? There's always somebody that could drive, you know.

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Speaker 1: I remember going to see Queen and Thin Lizzie at

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Speaker 1: the Forum and I had no ticket, and we walked

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Speaker 1: up and we thought we might be able to get

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Speaker 1: one because we've seen that happen. And there's a guy

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Speaker 1: standing on the corner with the tickets. It worked out

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Speaker 1: really well. I had many that did work out as well.

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Speaker 1: But I walk up and he's trying to sell the

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Speaker 1: tickets and a cop walks up and grabs the tickets

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Speaker 1: out of his hand and says, are you scalping these? No, sir,

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Speaker 1: And I said I was getting ready to buy them

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Speaker 1: at face value, officer. And the cop looks at me

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Speaker 1: and I'm a kid. I'm dealing with, you know, older kids,

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Speaker 1: so you know, I mean people in their twenties, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean. I'm just a kid, and he goes,

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Speaker 1: do you have the money? I go right here a

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Speaker 1: game and we got like twenty throw seats to seek

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Speaker 1: Lizzie and Queen, and it was fantastic. I think that

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Speaker 1: time of my life was. Everything was just a brand

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Speaker 1: new experience. It was amazing. It was amazing to go

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Speaker 1: see the Who at Anaheim Stadium. It was amazing to

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Speaker 1: all of it. I just I couldn't get enough of

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Speaker 1: the live music thing. The live music thing was extraordinary

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Speaker 1: to me. How often did you go to shows? Don't remember?

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean? As often as I could.

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Speaker 1: But I was a kid. I was in high school

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Speaker 1: and I could only only do so. Did you have

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Speaker 1: any lightbulb go off in your head say this is

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Speaker 1: something I want to make a career out of. I

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Speaker 1: never thought. And that's where punk rock comes in. I

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Speaker 1: would read the Sunday calendar section, of course, and you'd

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Speaker 1: get it was the tabloid it in the Los Angeles times.

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Speaker 1: You go to the Pacific Stereo ad in the middle,

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Speaker 1: of course, and then you'd turn and you'd start to read,

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Speaker 1: and it felt so distant, and uh, I didn't have

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Speaker 1: a great high school career. A little deeper. That means

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Speaker 1: what I was truant frequently. And then where I went

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Speaker 1: to school, you couldn't get away with that. How did

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Speaker 1: you get away with it? Well? I didn't. By the

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Speaker 1: halfway through my junior they wanted to send me to

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Speaker 1: the continuation school, and I dropped out and I took

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Speaker 1: the g E D. And at this point, I'm moving

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Speaker 1: out of my parents house. Okay, wait, wait, wait wait.

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Speaker 1: Your father comes from a background that's somewhat hard. He's

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Speaker 1: got a good job and he's on the road. How

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Speaker 1: are you getting along with your parents? Not well? And

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Speaker 1: the issue is what well they had? At one point,

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Speaker 1: my mother moved my dresser and I would always take

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Speaker 1: out the bottom drawer and that's where I would keep

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Speaker 1: all my you know, hash pipe and my rolling papers

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Speaker 1: and everything. And she found it, and to someone in

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Speaker 1: my parents era, the difference between marijuana and heroin was

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Speaker 1: non existent. She thought I was a drug addict. And

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Speaker 1: my father approached me and said, we're going to the

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Speaker 1: police right now, or you're going into therapy. And I said, well,

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Speaker 1: this is an easy call. How old were you? And

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Speaker 1: I'd gotten in a couple of scrapes similar uh with

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Speaker 1: the law, but like what well, when I was fourteen,

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Speaker 1: I was learning to drive, but I hadn't taken driver

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Speaker 1: head yet. I just used my parents car and I

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Speaker 1: got caught and I got arrested doing that. And then

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Speaker 1: when I was sixteen, I was smoking some weed with

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Speaker 1: a buddy of mine and got caught doing that, and

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Speaker 1: it just turned out he had some cross tops and

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Speaker 1: emphetamines with them, and I was like, oh god, this

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Speaker 1: isn't good, you know. And so that was, you know,

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Speaker 1: high school was chaos for me. Okay, But these are

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Speaker 1: choices you made. Is that part of your personality? We say,

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Speaker 1: what are you a limit tester? Are you willing to

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Speaker 1: do the thing that other people might pooh pooh or

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Speaker 1: be too scared of. I don't know. I don't think

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Speaker 1: that was the reason I was doing it. I was

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Speaker 1: doing it because I was having fun. I mean, plain

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Speaker 1: and simple. I was just having fun. It was like,

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Speaker 1: let's let's smoke a point and go see altered states.

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Speaker 1: Let's go. You know, you know, what are you doing?

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Speaker 1: You know? After school? I don't know what do you

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Speaker 1: want to meet and go? You know? It was just

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Speaker 1: what I was the nineteen seventy three or seventy four.

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Speaker 1: It's just what you did, okay. So you felt like

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Speaker 1: you went to the therapist. What did the therapist saying

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Speaker 1: after why? I said, you seem like an okay kid,

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Speaker 1: you know, And and he met with my parents. He said,

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Speaker 1: you seem you seem okay, you know, but but I

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Speaker 1: definitely was straining. There's no question that I was experiencing

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Speaker 1: the generation gap. Everything my parents stood for. Everything they

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Speaker 1: liked I didn't like. They didn't like long hair, they

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Speaker 1: didn't like the fact, you know. They just didn't like

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Speaker 1: how I addressed. They didn't like how I conducted. And

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Speaker 1: there was a point in our relationship where there was

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Speaker 1: a break, I mean a big break, particularly when it

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Speaker 1: came to curfews and things like that would be like

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Speaker 1: I'm going out. When we would be back, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: and that would be Friday night, it might be Saturday

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Speaker 1: afternoon I had come back. And it got to the

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Speaker 1: point where I think they would define it now is incorrigible,

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Speaker 1: where it was just like I wasn't going to be

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Speaker 1: told to do. And I moved out of my parents

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Speaker 1: house once when I was sixteen, and then for good

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Speaker 1: when I was event where like an apartment with what

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Speaker 1: money I was working now I left school at that point.

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Speaker 1: I think I was a Mason's tender. Where's what It's

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Speaker 1: an awful job of something that that really no one

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Speaker 1: would want to do. But I moved all the stone

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Speaker 1: and brick off of trucks for the mason to set

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Speaker 1: around pools. And I made the cement and would bring

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Speaker 1: it to them, and it was backbreaking work. And I

360
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Speaker 1: was seventeen years old and a d thirty five pounds

361
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Speaker 1: and I'm dealing with grown men with beards. And I

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Speaker 1: eventually got the clue and said, this sucks. I need

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Speaker 1: to go back to school. I'm never going to meet

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Speaker 1: a girl any girls. I would finish work and I

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Speaker 1: would just have one beer in my apartment, go, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is wonderful. I have my own apartment, and I

367
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Speaker 1: would just fall asleep. I was so fatigued. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: the school said, hey, you're not going and you literally

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Speaker 1: dropped out and took the g ding And how long

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Speaker 1: before you went back to school? Within six months. I

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Speaker 1: went to junior college as a seventeen year old, and

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Speaker 1: you're still living in your own apartment and you're paying

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Speaker 1: for yourself because it's cheap. Then it was really cheap.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't bad at all. I mean it wasn't. It wasn't.

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Speaker 1: And and college at this point, within college, within the

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00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,719
Speaker 1: community college system, you paid a five dollar health fee

377
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,760
Speaker 1: and your books and you're in and all those units. Uh,

378
00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,000
Speaker 1: you know, I transferred sixty units to U C Irvine

379
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Speaker 1: and got my degree from U C Irvine years later,

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Speaker 1: many years later. So how many years later, Well as

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Speaker 1: it would have been if seventeen, that would have been

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Speaker 1: U seventy. So I didn't graduate college till eighty five. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you're still living in your own apartment, you're still

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Speaker 1: paying your own bills, and now you're going to community college.

385
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Speaker 1: And what are you doing for work? Then? Just a

386
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Speaker 1: hodgepodge of different jobs. I went back to work at

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Speaker 1: a supermarket. I had worked at supermarkets. I had worked

388
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Speaker 1: at Ralph's when I was sixteen years old, and Fullerton

389
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Speaker 1: I went and started working for Vaughan's, you know, at

390
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Speaker 1: that point. And these were great jobs because it was

391
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Speaker 1: a union job, you had health benefits. Uh, they paid

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Speaker 1: time in half on Sundays, and and I could make

393
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,879
Speaker 1: enough money working part time to pay my bills. But

394
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,800
Speaker 1: nothing had really started to come together as it relates

395
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Speaker 1: to music yet at this point, I'm still going to

396
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,760
Speaker 1: a lot of shows. Punk rock has hit and now

397
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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I'm starting to go to clubs,

398
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Speaker 1: and that's a big shift. At least it was for

399
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Speaker 1: me when you've been going to concerts and concerts and

400
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,840
Speaker 1: they're big, and then you find yourself in a club

401
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,600
Speaker 1: and the music is much more visceral, and you're right

402
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,159
Speaker 1: there and the local Los Angeles scene is exploding. Of

403
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:28,119
Speaker 1: course it's going. It's amazing, you know. And I remember

404
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,879
Speaker 1: I spent the night on Lancashire Boulevard and saw Elvis

405
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,119
Speaker 1: Costello at the Palamino around the Armed Forces tour. I

406
00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,280
Speaker 1: spent the night on Sunset Boulevard and saw Tom Petty

407
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,439
Speaker 1: at the Whiskey. I I was there the night that

408
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,240
Speaker 1: Excine's sister died, when X released their debut record. This

409
00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,439
Speaker 1: was so exciting to me to see music in that

410
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Speaker 1: small format. And that is where I all of a

411
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:48,680
Speaker 1: sudden got in where all of a sudden, I'm going

412
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,280
Speaker 1: to Shifted and I'm going to Fullerton Junior College and

413
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,720
Speaker 1: I ran for student office, something I'd never done in

414
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Speaker 1: my life. I've never been to a dance in high school,

415
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Speaker 1: like I literally, what was your motivation? I wanted to

416
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Speaker 1: bring bands to school. I wanted to be able to

417
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:08,640
Speaker 1: somehow bring bands to school. And I made really cool posters.

418
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 1: I used pop art graphics. You know, Beatles jumping in

419
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Speaker 1: the air vote for gym. It was really embarrassing. I felt,

420
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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, because promoting yourself is really

421
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,280
Speaker 1: it takes a certain kind of person that can do it. Well.

422
00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,280
Speaker 1: I'm not that person. I felt like a colossal douche

423
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Speaker 1: bag the whole time doing it and I lost. But

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00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,640
Speaker 1: the guy who became president said, hey, you know, there's

425
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,120
Speaker 1: a stipend position for an events director. I've never even

426
00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:34,359
Speaker 1: heard the word stipend before, and I said, what does

427
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:36,280
Speaker 1: that mean? He goes, you can bring concerts here what

428
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,480
Speaker 1: you wanted to do, and we'll pay you fifty a

429
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,159
Speaker 1: week to do it. And you can have access to

430
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 1: the phones. And I phone is a big deal. That's

431
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:48,159
Speaker 1: what people don't understand, long distance calls. It is a

432
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,480
Speaker 1: big deal. But there was a nightclub called Ichabod's in

433
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 1: Fullerton on Sunday nights. They were dark. Occasionally they would

434
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,600
Speaker 1: bring a band in and I approached the manager and said,

435
00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,520
Speaker 1: can I do the bookings? And I got to do

436
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,320
Speaker 1: the bookings. So I'm booking the cramps, I'm booking suburban

437
00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,239
Speaker 1: lawns and booking. I told Social distortion, wait, wait, wait, wait,

438
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:06,640
Speaker 1: you're living in your own apartment. Do you have any

439
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,240
Speaker 1: contact with your parents at this point? Okay, it's kind

440
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,679
Speaker 1: of normalize. It does what goes off in your head.

441
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:13,399
Speaker 1: You're saying, I can be a book or I can

442
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,639
Speaker 1: do this. Well, I had had done a T. S

443
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,280
Speaker 1: o L show at my college, and so he did

444
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:22,320
Speaker 1: college shows before the Ichabod stuff. Yes, had done one,

445
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 1: just one. It was a nightmare, but by the same token,

446
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 1: to do one in the college, you're talking to so

447
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 1: many middle agents whatever. You learn a lot in that

448
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,680
Speaker 1: one show. Yeah, Well it was just T. S O L.

449
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,400
Speaker 1: And they were local, and I forget how I made contact,

450
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,240
Speaker 1: but it was interesting, you know, I made I made

451
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,160
Speaker 1: some friends in that situation. And then I had seen

452
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,440
Speaker 1: Dennis to L, the guitar player of Social Distortion. We

453
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,560
Speaker 1: were both in court for something. I don't know what

454
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:48,760
Speaker 1: I was in court for, but I remember seeing Dennis.

455
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,840
Speaker 1: He was wearing a green suit, he had saddle shoes on,

456
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,640
Speaker 1: and he was reading up and down with the rolling stones.

457
00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 1: And I'd seen Social d and I love Social Distortion.

458
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,480
Speaker 1: I thought they were great. They were very Lodi. They

459
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,160
Speaker 1: reminder me much more of the Buzzcocks than thrash music.

460
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,359
Speaker 1: They are Generation X. They were very melodic, and I

461
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,440
Speaker 1: approached my said, can get you a gig at Kabots

462
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,160
Speaker 1: And he said they won't let us play there because

463
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:11,879
Speaker 1: they wouldn't let punk bands play. And it goes, I

464
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 1: can get you a gig there, and I got them

465
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,119
Speaker 1: a gig there. You'd already spoken with the guy at

466
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 1: Nikabots or you said if I have this in my pocket,

467
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:20,760
Speaker 1: I'd already spoken, And so I was starting to do

468
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 1: bookings there and it was great because it meant I

469
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 1: got to see the shows for free. It also meant

470
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,239
Speaker 1: that I got to hit the bar for free. I

471
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 1: got to by my friends drinks for free. It was

472
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 1: like it was It was amazing. So you book a

473
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 1: social dy, that's your first show at Nickabo. No, it's

474
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:36,720
Speaker 1: not my first show. I don't know what my first

475
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 1: show was, to be honest with you, were they all successful? Yeah?

476
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 1: I never lost money? And how did you get the

477
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,920
Speaker 1: word out Flyers? You just did Flyers. The punk rock

478
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 1: thing was very rapid community because there was very little

479
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,439
Speaker 1: that you were permitted to do in terms of venues,

480
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,920
Speaker 1: Like you couldn't go and play at the Rock Sea.

481
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 1: And I remember I started booking bands. Up and down

482
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 1: the coast, and in different places, you couldn't get to

483
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 1: the stone in San Francisco, Bill Gret they wouldn't let

484
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 1: you book these so you wind up calling as you

485
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 1: started booking around the country, you call the Victor Brothers

486
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 1: and Phoenix and they would put you with the Knights

487
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 1: of Pitheus Hall. And then you'd call Tom bunchdown in

488
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 1: Texas and he had a place where and you started

489
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 1: networking all these people because they all had these scenes

490
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,200
Speaker 1: and they knew how to where to put the flyers.

491
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining me on another episode of the Bob

492
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 1: Left Sets podcast. I hope you've enjoyed going down the

493
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,640
Speaker 1: rabbit hole with me. You never know who's gonna stop

494
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 1: by the studio. I've already had the chance to talk

495
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 1: the legendary skateboarder Tony Hawk, Grammy nominated songwriter and bal

496
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,360
Speaker 1: Oscar nominated songwriter Diane Warren, and we're just getting started.

497
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 1: Make sure to subscribe to the podcast on tune in,

498
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 1: Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. Back to

499
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: my conversation with Jim Garrino. Okay, so let's go back

500
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 1: your bookingabas. How do you then morph that into booking

501
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 1: up and down on the coast. In other so, what

502
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:06,640
Speaker 1: winds up happening is I wind up transferring to UC Irvine.

503
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,880
Speaker 1: And at the same time I meet Gary Tover. I'm

504
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 1: blown away. He's got this thing called Golden Voice, and

505
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 1: they're doing shows on a much larger scale than seems

506
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 1: that one should be able to do. Like, you can't

507
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 1: do shows this big punk rock shows. You're gonna get

508
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 1: shut down, Like I feel like I'm getting away with

509
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: something doing an Ichabod show here and there. Jerry Roach

510
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 1: has already had his troubles with the Cuckoo's Nest that's

511
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: been shut down. Everything in Orange County has been shut down.

512
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: And I meet Gary and I don't know how I

513
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,199
Speaker 1: weasel my way into it, but I get Gary to

514
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: let Mike Vrainey, who's the manager of the Dead Kennedy's

515
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 1: and t s o L and me I'm now handling

516
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 1: Social Distortion, open a booking agency for him. And so

517
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: we book Agent Orange forty five Grave the Dickies, Dead

518
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,919
Speaker 1: Kennedy's TSL Social Distoration, and we start booking him. When

519
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: he would bring a band in from England to do

520
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,640
Speaker 1: his concert at the Olympic auditorium. We would then book

521
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 1: them up and down the coast for him. Okay, how

522
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 1: do you become the manager of Social Mike? The band

523
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: breaks up, the manager leaves for Las Vegas, he splits

524
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: the rhythm section, leaves the band. Mike. I don't know

525
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: the exact sequence, but he winds up coming to live

526
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 1: with me when he gets clean. He winds up, you know,

527
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 1: Dennis and I have found him o'ded a couple, you know,

528
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 1: many situations where there's big problems and he's having serious,

529
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 1: serious drug problems. But he gets clean and he comes

530
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,120
Speaker 1: to live with me, and he's trying the whole time

531
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 1: to do the band. We go through four or five drummers,

532
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: but it's really not coming together until he gets clean.

533
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: And then we kind of get an established lineup and

534
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: I'm managing them, and I put together a distribution deal

535
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 1: through Enigma Records, Bill Hin and we pay for and

536
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: record this record, Social Recording. It's not there's another one

537
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: that came out before that that that this is their second,

538
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: you know, full length album, but it's the first word

539
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: Mike's claim and where we end to have a cohesive

540
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 1: thing going on where we can say we're gonna be somewhere, Mike.

541
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: Let me tell you. We book Gary Tovar book Social

542
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 1: Distortion in the Olympic Auditorium. They do five thousand people. Okay,

543
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: we're probably eight three. We get there to do the show,

544
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 1: we have no gear, Mike's pond at all. It's gone.

545
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: It's gone, and we're headlining. Okay. And I remember seeing

546
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 1: this guy, Don Burnett the band plane wrap and said,

547
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 1: I think he was the opening act. He might not

548
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 1: have been, it may have been a different act. But

549
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: we say, we'll give you a hunter Bucks if we

550
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: can use your gear. You're applying. We'll be here late,

551
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, no problem. We give him a Hunter Bucks.

552
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: Now we have a gear to play through. End of

553
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,479
Speaker 1: the night, we're all hanging around partying. Guy walks up

554
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 1: and goes, hey, where do you put my gear? Fucking

555
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 1: Mike has taken his gear and hocked it and it's

556
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: in the pawn shop. Just like that, it's gone. He's

557
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: stolen the gear again. And that's what it was like,

558
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Meanwhile, this guy is selling

559
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: five thousand tickets. You can't get a major label deal.

560
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: So when he cleans up the band records this record

561
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: prison Bound. The song goes number one on k Rock.

562
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: It literally is number one. We put the record out

563
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: through Enigma as a pressing and distribution deal, which was

564
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 1: the only deal you could get. Back then nobody recognized

565
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: the brilliance of it, that you own the masters and

566
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 1: that you get the lions share the money. It was

567
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 1: just like, well, nobody will give us a deal, so

568
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: we'll just make it ourselves, and you know, do that

569
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 1: and they would do the pressing and they charge you back.

570
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: But it turned out to be great because they wound

571
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: up owning owning their masters. It goes number one on

572
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: k Rock. Epic winds up signing him. But that's you know, Okay,

573
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: you're the manager, you make a deal with Enigma, You

574
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: and Bill hind sit down, or you get a lawyer.

575
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,479
Speaker 1: At this point, I do everything. I have no lawyer,

576
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: and I have come out of you see your vine.

577
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: There's a little bit of backtracking. I meet Steve Rennie

578
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: at u C Irvine. He has a company called Steve

579
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: Rennie Presents, which we affectionately used to call Steve Renny

580
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: Resents because nobody wanted to do much bisy this with him.

581
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: But he gets hired at Avalon. At the time, they're

582
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: doing four nights of Bruce Springsteen at the Colisseum eighty thou.

583
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 1: They're the biggest there is in l A. They own

584
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 1: l A. And Renny gets hired by Avalon, and we've

585
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 1: been doing concerts. I'm at u c Irvine. This is four.

586
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 1: I don't graduate till Lady five. So we bring Wingo

587
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: Boingo for two shows in one night. We bring the

588
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: Cure in two shows in one night, turned the house.

589
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 1: We do all these concerts, and he realizes he can

590
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: rely on me. So they hired me for two fifty

591
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: dollars a week to drive from Coasta Mesa to Encino

592
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 1: when Bruce is coming to do his four nights at

593
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: the Colisseum. They called it the Bruce Excees. We'll need

594
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 1: a little extra help, and so I get I get

595
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: hired to do that. Uh, and so you know, all

596
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: this is kind of going on. At the same time,

597
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: I'm continuing to do work for Gary Tovar. I was

598
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: doing his graphic arts. I would do his l a

599
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: time Sunday calendar ad with rub out letters, throw a

600
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: few skulls in there, take it and get a line

601
00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: stat v locks and then I drive it down to

602
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: Bobs upreds In at the l A Times and Gary

603
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: give me a hundred bucks a week to do that. Okay,

604
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: but let's go back to socialty. If you're selling five

605
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 1: thousand tickets forgetting that Mike's not clean, there's a lot

606
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 1: of money somewhere. Is any of that money floating down

607
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: to you? Oh yeah, I'm getting fift at this point

608
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 1: of that, you know, but it's not a lot of money.

609
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 1: In in four it was a flat guarantee. It might

610
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: have been three four thou dollars. Ticket ticket prices were

611
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: not what they are. You know, we're talking about keeping

612
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 1: ticket prices under ten dollars. When I started managing the

613
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: Offspring in ninety four, they wouldn't go over a ten

614
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 1: dollar ticket. That's nine four. This is ten years before that.

615
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: So okay, so you're slapping up to the cino. You're working.

616
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: So that was only for the four days with Bruce

617
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: or did you can? I worked the entire time from

618
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: the literally the moment I graduated. I started the following Monday.

619
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: I never had to do a resume. Started. I sat

620
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,719
Speaker 1: on the couch and I would go up there. They

621
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: have all on office and CEO Brian Murphy. I thought

622
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: was the coolest guy I'd ever seen that works at

623
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: a G But it's a long time at L a promoter,

624
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: and Bob, you can't imagine seeing this guy sit there

625
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: on the phone. And I've told this story before, but

626
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell it again because most people haven't heard it.

627
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: I'll never forget when he's getting ready to announce Bruce Springsteen,

628
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: his tickets are going on sale. He's calling Cynthia Fox

629
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: at Camyte and he's going to go live on the air. Now,

630
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: that's just unbelievable. And I'm sitting there watching a little

631
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: bit of Remember I mean, I'm sitting there watching him,

632
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: and I'm like quiet, like I gotta be U watch.

633
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: He's got his Diet Coke there in his Marlborough lights,

634
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: and he's got his jacket on, jeans, white tennis shoes,

635
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: and Murphy looks cool as hell. And he picks up

636
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: the phone. He gets ready to do the phone call.

637
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: It's a couple of minutes before he's going to go

638
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: in there, and and I just remember him going, Hey, Fox,

639
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: what's happening? And I'm just like, oh my god, this

640
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: guy is so cool. Because yeah, we're bringing Bruce l

641
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: A And I'm just like, this is the greatest thing ever.

642
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: I'm just in awe of it. You know, there's nothing

643
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: like being on the inside. It was, and I'm just

644
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a week or two out of school

645
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: and he let me sit on his couch in his

646
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: office because there's no desk for me. I mean, he

647
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: was very I'd met him over the years because I

648
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: had interned and done stuff and helped out. But it

649
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: was really really cool. And what was your theoretical job?

650
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: I did store reports. I would call Moby Disc and

651
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,719
Speaker 1: I would talk to Bob Say and I would say, hey,

652
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: what's selling this week? You know, what do you got going?

653
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: What's going on? And a lot of things were you know, again,

654
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: it was kind of a for me. It meant a

655
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: lot to all of a sudden be able to say, Hey,

656
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: the Smiths are selling really well, that's gonna that's something

657
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: we should book, or this is doing well. This is

658
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: something we we had to deal with the palladium. So

659
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: we're doing the Palladium shows. And we had a venue

660
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: in San Diego, the open air Amphitheater at San Diego

661
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: State about a four thousand theaters. So you know, I'm

662
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 1: calling all these records store, I'm talking to X and

663
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: I'm I don't know what I'm doing, but people are

664
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: talking about music and they're telling me bands that I

665
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: like that, how they're selling and what they'll do, and

666
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: and they'd say, I'll never forget any saying me, so

667
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: what do you think the Smith's Palladium? Is it one

668
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: or two? And I'm like, you're asking me, you're asking me,

669
00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: this is awesome, right, how long are you I beend

670
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: a couple of years there, and uh, we start managing

671
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: Drama Rama, Steve and I and at this point Moss

672
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: Jacobs is still there, and we would split the money

673
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: four ways. So I did a P and D with

674
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: Important Now and they had a blowtorch hit called Anything

675
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: Anything on k Rock. It was huge, and I start

676
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: booking the band. I do all the booking at this point,

677
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: I make all the calls, college bookings, and we split

678
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: all the money. And it's like I have to ask

679
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: you a license agent at that time, not at all,

680
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: of course, No, not not at all, you know, And

681
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: and that's going on, and I found another club in

682
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: Orange County that very similar to an Ichabod's Thing, and

683
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: I changed the name of it when I book it

684
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: that night, and I call it pretty vacant after a

685
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: sex pistol song and book Jane's addiction in their Red Laura,

686
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: Yellow Lauria, a bunch of Geiger bands and uh, that's

687
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: mark now ahead of music and very pivotal in my career.

688
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: But Reny decides that he wants to form a management

689
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: company within Avalon and he's going to be the head

690
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: of it. Now, all the money has to go into

691
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: this management company, and I don't like that very much

692
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: because well, because we're splitting it four ways, and at

693
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: this point I'm doing the bulk of the work. It's like, okay,

694
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: but you know, I'm young and arrogant about it, like

695
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: this is bullshit, you know what's going on? Okay. Also,

696
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: I'd gotten a raise. I went from two fifty dollars

697
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: a week to something more, but it amounted to thirty

698
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: three thousand dollars a year. And they had given me

699
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: that raise four months before, but I hadn't seen it yet,

700
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: and I complained to complained the complain They said, Okay,

701
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: we're gonna do it, but it's not going to be

702
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: retroactive to the time. Well, right around this time, Mark

703
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: Geiger has put my name in with Larry Vallen who

704
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: turned me onto The Left Sets Letter and Ja Marciano,

705
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: and they invite me to the Hamburger Hamlet and I

706
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: sit down and they say, we'd like you to come

707
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: over to the Universal Lamp Theater. I'm like, wow, because

708
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: the Universe Lamp Theater, that's to me, the big time,

709
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: like I've seen before. They put the roof on, I've

710
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 1: been there. It is veep to me, preeminent music venue

711
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. And they explain what it is and

712
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: how they do their thing different. Do you remember what

713
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: they said that was different. Well, they booked a venue

714
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: and I had been in the four wall business, which

715
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: as we go in, you know we had irvine meadows,

716
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: but we treated it like a four wall business. We

717
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: would go in explain what a four wall business. You

718
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: basically go in and you rent the four walls and

719
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: you charge let's say ten dollars at the door, and

720
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: a hundred people show up, you have a thousand dollars

721
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: and you have some to pay the ban or whatever

722
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: is left over you keep. Well, they own that building now,

723
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: so there's the parking, the peanuts, the concessions, and they're

724
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: running a much different operation. It is truly the contemporary

725
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: concert industry. And I feel like wow. And they're getting

726
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: ready to build one in Denver, and they have one Atlanta,

727
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: and and Irving, by the way, is running it right.

728
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: Of course, Irving had left management after the Eagles broke up.

729
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: That's Irving as off and he got hired to run

730
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: m c A Records, which was a dump at the time,

731
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: and he started this concert business and let Ja Marciano

732
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: run around the country and building these venues. That's right.

733
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: And for those who don't know, Ja Marciano now runs

734
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 1: a g one of the two concert powerhouses in the world.

735
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: That's right. And they bring me in to do what

736
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: to book the new bands. I'm the new band guy.

737
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,719
Speaker 1: Whatever that thing is that you guys do at the Palladium,

738
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: we needed to bring here. And I'm going to tell

739
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: you something. Larry Vallen, in as many chances as he had,

740
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: would always say, Jim came up with the idea of

741
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: party in the pit, take the seats out of the pit. Really,

742
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 1: he would say that he would give me credit for

743
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,280
Speaker 1: having done that, so that there would be a general

744
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 1: admission to give some of the stiffness of the universe

745
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: lamp there. It was never my idea. It was always Larry's.

746
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: And I'm telling you the guy, I'm like, Larry, this

747
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: is You're the one who came up with the idea,

748
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: you know. But He's like, yeah, we came up with

749
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: it together. And then it would be you just came

750
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 1: up with it alone. The generosity of that guy, he

751
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 1: was fantastic to work with, you know. I mean, he

752
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: was really, really, really terrific. And Jay Jay had a

753
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: vocabulary of music that was foreign to me. He would

754
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: be booking Stephanie Mills and he had booked the the

755
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: Theater on and he had a musical vocabulary that was

756
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 1: four to me. He would just sit there and these

757
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 1: guys the Beverly Theater, right, And so they would sit

758
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: there and they do five nights of Earth, Wind and Fire,

759
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: and they bring in George Benson, and they bring in

760
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: the Whispers and Stephanie Mila and Larry was doing all

761
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: these Latin things and I started to go, Okay, they're

762
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: doing things that are outside of just my sphere of understanding.

763
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 1: They know how to do the business and I started

764
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: to grow up a little bit, you know, and uh,

765
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: and that's when he gave me my first left set.

766
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 1: So I'm like, what is this? Okay? So how long

767
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 1: do you work at Universal? Ten months? I hate it.

768
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 1: You hate it because because it was very corporate and

769
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 1: the guy who was the boss of Larry and Jay

770
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: I had booked you Be forty into Fiddler's Green, the

771
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: new venue in Denver, and I did it with Ian Copeland,

772
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,319
Speaker 1: who ran the FBI agency. And they had a lot

773
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: of acts. Everybody from the police and Squeeze to the

774
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: go goes, all sorts of different acts. And Ian was

775
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: a great guy. He was one of the pioneers of

776
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: music that I loved recently to see. And the show

777
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 1: wasn't selling great. And he said, you go back and

778
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: tell him what if we were giving him X. He said,

779
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 1: give him half off X. He said, I can't do that,

780
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:08,919
Speaker 1: so you gotta do it. I know I'm not gonna

781
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 1: do it. This is the corporate guy. Yeah, and it

782
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: just really was awful. I haven't heard from him in

783
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: thirty years, probably heard about him for thirty years. But

784
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: it just wasn't comfortable, and so I wasn't willing to

785
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: do that. And at this point Mark Geiger shows up

786
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: again and he goes, wall, wait before you get there,

787
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: the show played. How did it do? We made money?

788
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: We made money. So Geiger at this time when he

789
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 1: shows up again, what is he doing? I think he's

790
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: he's the hot guy at Triad probably, which is another

791
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: agency that morphs into some other agency and you know,

792
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,439
Speaker 1: kind of repopulates itself. But he shows up and he goes, hey,

793
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: you know A and m is looking for somebody, and

794
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 1: I'm like, what is that? What was the job description?

795
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: It was the head of artist development. And so Michael Leon,

796
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,839
Speaker 1: who's the head of the East Coast office, comes in

797
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: and he says, I want you to meet Gil Freezing.

798
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: We'd like to talk to you about this job. And

799
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: I'll never forget that because if there is a mentor

800
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: for me in the business, it was Guil Freezing for sure.

801
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: I go in, I sit down, and and I say,

802
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: what is artist development as well? Jim, That's how Gil talked.

803
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: You'll tell us now, won't you. That's so guilt. So

804
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: so the Gil unfortunately is not with us either. But

805
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 1: and I was like, this guy is just weird, you know,

806
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 1: just so uncomfortable you know what I mean. And uh,

807
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,280
Speaker 1: And my experience with record companies are you'd call somebody

808
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,399
Speaker 1: in the promotion department, because I'm a concert promoter, to say, hey,

809
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: do you want to help promote. I didn't realize promotion

810
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 1: was they call radio stations. I was like, we're going

811
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: to promote, and they wouldn't help you at all, and

812
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: they'd be there the night of the show taking pictures.

813
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: I didn't like record company people as a rule, but

814
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:43,760
Speaker 1: I was not happy where I was and I wanted

815
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: something new, and I went to A and M and

816
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: I took on this job. And at the time when

817
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 1: I start the job, it's primarily making copies of videos

818
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: and sending them to the local video shows. Artist development

819
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: is video promotion. You remember the year that you go

820
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 1: to work at and I'm like, this is videos, making videos.

821
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: I didn't understand that as artist development in my mind.

822
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: But I also controlled the promotional budget and the tour

823
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: support budget, and I see that as as something. And

824
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 1: we're signing bands, and I remember eight is when I

825
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: met Tony Hawk. I took Social Distortion up to Seattle

826
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 1: to do the Gotcha Grind and we had just signed

827
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: this band called Sound Garden and the manager called me,

828
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 1: Susan Silver, and she said, I'd like to talk to you,

829
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: and we're going to go to the new music seminar

830
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: and we like to see if we can open for

831
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: Iggy Pop. And Iggy Pop at the time is on

832
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: A and M. And I said, I'm gonna be in Seattle.

833
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: Why don't we meet each other in person? So we

834
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: do and she shows up with this long haired Hessian

835
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: and of course I don't realize it's Chris Cornell, you know.

836
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: And I meet Chris and Susan for the first time.

837
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: I'm with the drummer of Social Distortion. I'm there is

838
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 1: the A and M rep but also managing Social Distortion.

839
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: They let me keep Social Distortion. That was a big thing.

840
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: Gil said, yeah, you can continue with them, because nobody

841
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 1: thought they were anything. That didn't matter. It turns out

842
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: they signed an epic and you know, I'm not managing

843
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:02,320
Speaker 1: a band on Sony, you know, from like that's crazy.

844
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,760
Speaker 1: So anyway, it's eight and I start to encounter these

845
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: younger bands. This is pre Nirvana, whether it's Soul Asylum,

846
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: Sound Garden, but bands that they're not getting a lot

847
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:15,879
Speaker 1: of attention at the time. There's a general manager there

848
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: by the name of Bob Rightman. He's like, Sting doesn't

849
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: need your help, don't worry about that. There's somewhere that

850
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 1: find the bands that are excited, that want to talk

851
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: to you. And I thought it was really good advice

852
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 1: because within a label, which is pretty big, there are

853
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 1: these little orphaned bands that are kind of just lingering.

854
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 1: And I needed something to do, and I need somewhere

855
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: to hang my hat and something to to work on.

856
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: And so these bands start to become important. And I

857
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: remember having a meeting with Sound Garden and Susan and

858
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: we're sitting there. I had suggested that they bring an

859
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,760
Speaker 1: extension cord and clip on lights when they go on tour,

860
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: and I'm like, why, I said, your T shirt sales

861
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: will go up. And that was like the moment where

862
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: I realized this is what artists develop him in. Is

863
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: this is where you shift away from sending videos out

864
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: and all that nonsense to you're gonna do this like

865
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 1: a concert promoter. You're gonna try and you're gonna try

866
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 1: and build bands on the road. So you knew that

867
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,879
Speaker 1: about the extension corp. From being a promoter, from being

868
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: a manager, of Social Distortion. That's how we sold more

869
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 1: T shirts because we did all our own merch And

870
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: I'd done that now with Social Distortion for five years.

871
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 1: I'd managed them through the clubs, through the all the places.

872
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: I'd done what these bands are getting ready to do,

873
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: I've been doing for five years. And I said, if

874
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: we can grow you at a certain point to where

875
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: you can tour on your own and make money, at

876
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: some point, you'll have success. Now, I didn't know what

877
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 1: it would become. I you know, I mean, it looks

878
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 1: great in hindsight. Yes, the market moved a little bit.

879
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: Sound Garden has black Hole, Sun It Works, Blues Traveler,

880
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: you know a number of bands. But I knew that

881
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: the touring thing was going to be very important, and

882
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 1: it seemed to also correspond with the kind of artists

883
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: that I liked and that could have long term success,

884
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:58,879
Speaker 1: that would create catalog and all the things that felt

885
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: like buzzwords for this word label that I'm starting at.

886
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: You know, I saw with the Police that was the

887
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: kind of template. Okay, so at this time, a lot

888
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: of crazy stuff happens at A and M and M

889
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 1: is sold to poly Graham. Jerry Moss leaves not right away.

890
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: Jerry gil leaves right away, but Jerry and Herbs stay on.

891
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 1: They run up for about a year, and at this

892
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 1: point there's heavy turnover. And I've been there for a

893
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: few years now. I had become the head of marketing.

894
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 1: I think at this point Alcaferro had been the general manager.

895
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: When Jerry leaves, he becomes the president. I become the

896
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 1: general manager. And we had been really cold for a

897
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 1: long time, like it had been been bad. But we

898
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 1: start to things start to happen. We start to sell

899
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 1: some records. We start to have Amy Grant, Brian Adams

900
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: goes on Fire and Aaron Neville. We have the C. C.

901
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 1: Peniston single, the Gin Blossom. Zo and I had had

902
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: a discussion over Temple of the Dog, Sound Garden Blue.

903
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 1: You know, Cheryl Crow. We get hot, you know, we

904
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 1: get hot. And like everybody, any any executive, you're only

905
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:04,720
Speaker 1: as good as the clients you have and the people

906
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: you work with. That's what you do. And so Al

907
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 1: goes away for six months. Okay, I'll len Leavey who

908
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 1: runs PolyGram sends him to Harvard for educational purpose, Harvard

909
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: Business School, and I get to take over for six

910
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: months and I've got a great group of people, but

911
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 1: it's uncomfortable because I'm young. I'm without question have the

912
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,919
Speaker 1: shortest tenure in the record industry. But I just say

913
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: that to everybody. I know, this is uncomfortable. I got

914
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: the shortest tenure. But we got a job to do.

915
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: We got we gotta get this done and we've got

916
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: to nail it. We've got to keep these PolyGram dogs

917
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: at Bay because they're very corporate. Now it's simultaneously it

918
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 1: becomes a big factor. You become involved with the offspring.

919
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 1: How does that happen, Well, that doesn't happen until and

920
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: at this point, my feeling about A and M has

921
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:51,439
Speaker 1: gone sour. I've been approached by Sony to come work there.

922
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: I've had a couple other approaches from some people. I

923
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: don't take anything, but I'm not happy where I'm at

924
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,959
Speaker 1: because the PolyGram influence has really come in. It really

925
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: hits uh a point. First off, I have to say

926
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: Alc Farroll gave me a tremendous amount of just latitude.

927
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:06,879
Speaker 1: He gave me. I don't know why, but he did,

928
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: and and we had success. And so he continued to

929
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: but theyre reached a point where he was spending so

930
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: much time dealing with PolyGram, and they were interfering so

931
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 1: much with our operation. I was starting to lose people.

932
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:20,919
Speaker 1: I was starting to not be able to pay people.

933
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 1: I was starting not to build bonus people. They came

934
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: up with a certain point where they weren't honoring contracts,

935
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 1: and it hit between Al and me when we had

936
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: our Grammy tickets. We had fifty tickets and I had

937
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 1: made the list of who they should go to. I

938
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: sent it to him for approval, and all of a

939
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 1: suddenen day calls because they want forty six of them back.

940
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: I said, for what he goes for Wall Street people,

941
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 1: he can't let him do that. Now he's dealing with

942
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: PolyGram directly in a lan can't him do well? We

943
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: have no choice And I said, then you got forty

944
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 1: eight tickets. I'm not going. And I said, and you

945
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: shouldn't go either. And that was kind of arrogant, asshole

946
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 1: move on my part, but it was what it was

947
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 1: at the time, you know. And I realized that my

948
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: time was up there and I was ring to have

949
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 1: this sense that I just don't want to do this anymore.

950
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 1: I'd gone from that point where you're making two fifty

951
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: dollars a week and loving every minute to making a

952
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:10,359
Speaker 1: lot more money than I ever thought I would make,

953
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,720
Speaker 1: and just not enjoying myself. And I wanted to change

954
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: my life, and so I quit bob here. When I'm

955
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: not interviewing industry titans and learning about how they made

956
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: their mark in their fields, all write about music, tech,

957
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: current events, and everything in between. Subscribe to the Left

958
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: Sets later at left sets dot com to find out

959
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 1: what's on my mind. Back to my conversation with Jim Garreto,

960
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: I thought that Offspring had success before you quit. April

961
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: of ninety four, I start managing them. So what had

962
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 1: happened is in I get a phone call and I'd

963
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: always been taught. I don't care whether it was Bill

964
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 1: Elson or Toma Ross. You return every phone call. And

965
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: this guy calls me and it's Dexter Holland and he

966
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: explains he's in a band and he's going to USC

967
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 1: and he's this, and uh, do I want to manage him?

968
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 1: And I said I can't. I'm the general manager of

969
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: Van m you know. And he goes, can you help

970
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 1: me get on a Fugazi show at the Palladium with

971
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: Golden boys, and I said, well, here's Paul Toilett's phone number,

972
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: you know, reach out and he got on the show.

973
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: And the following year he calls me because we've got

974
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: another record and it looks like A Rock is gonna

975
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: start playing it. Larry Weintraub was my assistant at the time,

976
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: and I was like, dude, this record is amazing, and

977
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 1: I'm just uncomfortable enough of what I'm doing that I say,

978
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna have this guy come in.

979
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: And so he comes in and I love him. He's

980
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: a real genuine sweetheart. He's a gentleman, he's polite, and

981
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: the records amazing. You know, it's amazing, and it goes

982
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: through the roof at A Rock and I say, I'll

983
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: start managing you. So that's April ofission. No. At this

984
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: point I really don't care. I wind up quitting in July.

985
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 1: Was there any pressure this this was literally the biggest

986
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: hit on K Rock at that time. Was there any

987
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 1: pressure for me? And Am absolutely absolutely? And there were

988
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: pressure from internally. Bob Score Mercury want to sign him.

989
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: I'm hearing from Danny Goldberg. He wants to sign everybody,

990
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: all all the people I know want to sign them,

991
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:07,399
Speaker 1: And I'm saying to the band, They're like, we don't

992
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 1: want to meet anybody. We don't want to meet anybody,

993
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 1: we don't want to talk to anybody. We're not going

994
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:12,760
Speaker 1: to take a meeting. We want to be on Epitaph.

995
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 1: They turned down Saturday Night Live, they turned down all

996
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 1: these things. They're just like, we don't want to participate

997
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:18,760
Speaker 1: in any of that stuff. We think that's all lame

998
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: and don't want to do it. In retrospect, good or

999
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: bad move? In retrospect bad move, because um, well, I'm sorry,

1000
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 1: it's a mixed grade. They weren't ready for it. For sure.

1001
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 1: Had they been where they are were several years later,

1002
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 1: they would have been able to deliver the goods. But

1003
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: at this point they've never even sold out the whiskey.

1004
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 1: They're not at that point where you need to be

1005
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 1: at the premier television show playing because it would have

1006
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: been too soon. They would have tanked. Frankly, I don't

1007
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 1: think they would have been very good. You know, they're

1008
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:49,919
Speaker 1: they're just getting ready to go out and do their

1009
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 1: first real touring and start to develop their chops. And

1010
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: in a weird way, that's the irony of a band

1011
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 1: like that. They kind of broke off a pop music

1012
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: model more than a mat Alica model or social distoration

1013
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 1: or sound Garden. They almost broke more of a pop

1014
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,720
Speaker 1: model where the song got huge. They sell eleven million

1015
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 1: records on Epitaph, and they're just growing into being a

1016
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: good band. They haven't fully realized that yet. Well, it's

1017
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 1: fascinated because it's today's marketplace. You know, it used to

1018
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 1: be up until like five years ago, cream would rise

1019
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 1: to the top on the Internet. Now there's so much noise.

1020
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 1: So the question is do you take the opportunities do

1021
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: not take the opportunities. It's more gray than ever before.

1022
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 1: But I think these are important questions. I think they

1023
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 1: are too and I'm not sure whether it's the cred

1024
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,320
Speaker 1: question that would be each specific situation, but you definitely

1025
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: have to be able to be ready when you do

1026
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: get the shot. You can undo your shot very quickly

1027
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 1: if you suck. It's funny because I've been living through

1028
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: this with Greta van Fleet, which the label is Jason

1029
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: Flom and the agent his guide whether you push the

1030
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: button or not, and whether it eventually happened. So how

1031
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:55,839
Speaker 1: does it ultimately go down with a and M I

1032
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: decided to leave. I decaid I'm gonna move to Laguna

1033
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,839
Speaker 1: Beach And they say, what would say? You're gonna leave?

1034
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:05,760
Speaker 1: Really you're the gentleman, like why? But at this point

1035
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 1: there's enough strife between Al and me. Then he's like, yes,

1036
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 1: probably time for him to go. It's probably time for him.

1037
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 1: You know, we're we're definitely butting heads, you know, on

1038
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 1: a pretty regular basis. And again I say that with

1039
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 1: all due respect because the guy gave me such a shot.

1040
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,359
Speaker 1: But subsequent to that, they really never had another hit.

1041
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,439
Speaker 1: Who's that? And m Cheryl continued, you know, I'm talking

1042
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,360
Speaker 1: about a new act. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure we

1043
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: could go through, but relatively speaking, they got colder and colder. Yeah,

1044
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 1: I think so. I think that that that the the

1045
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 1: PolyGram influence was inevitable, and sooner or later it just

1046
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: choked him off. And I really do think that. You know,

1047
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 1: at some point, you know, you've got to have the spirit.

1048
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: I remember going in Dalla's office say I want to

1049
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,760
Speaker 1: spend two hund fifty thousand dollars on Cheryl Crow TV.

1050
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 1: He's like, really, yeah, I think it's time. I think

1051
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 1: we gotta go okay, and I brought him Bill Gilbert,

1052
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: who was the Grizzly sales guy from Boston. He was

1053
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 1: like twenty years older than May. And whenever Billy and

1054
00:48:58,040 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: I walked in Dalla's, obviously just threw santhem because lee

1055
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: me alone. Guys, whatever you want, you know what I mean?

1056
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: It was, and it was great. Once Billy left, it

1057
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: really changed for me. You know, when Billy left, the

1058
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:09,280
Speaker 1: whole game really changed because there was nothing in between

1059
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 1: Al and me. You know, So when you go to Laguna,

1060
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 1: if you already have a deal with Clive, what's the story. No, No,

1061
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 1: if this goes you go to Laguna, you're just gonna

1062
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,240
Speaker 1: manage social Dan, You're just gonna be in the draw offspring.

1063
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 1: Not that there's not enough money there honestly, but my

1064
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 1: calculus was, you can either make more money. Okay, you

1065
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 1: make more money, you get more stuff and you create

1066
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 1: your own prison, or find a way to live off

1067
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: a hunter Grand. And that's what I was saying to

1068
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 1: my friends at the time. I'll find a way to

1069
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:39,839
Speaker 1: live off a Hunter Grand. You know, I'm single at

1070
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,839
Speaker 1: this point, I'm thirty five years old. Move, I'm gonna

1071
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 1: make it simple I'm gonna simplify my life, you know,

1072
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 1: I want to have fun again. I don't want to

1073
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: approach the music industry like it's a chore. We all

1074
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 1: know these people, you know, you reach a certain age

1075
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 1: where it's like God, all they do is complain about there.

1076
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be that. I wanted to make

1077
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: Flyers again. I wanted to get involved with the video.

1078
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:58,360
Speaker 1: I wanted to do that, and I just wanted to

1079
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,919
Speaker 1: enjoy myself doing it again. And so at this point

1080
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: I moved to Laguna. Did you immediately read the office

1081
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 1: you ultimately did? Oh? No, no, no, not at all.

1082
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 1: I stay at my house in Sherman Oaks until September

1083
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 1: of ninety four. And then Peter Harper, who now works

1084
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 1: a ticketmaster, had found a two bedroom house down on

1085
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 1: Victoria Street, and we took one of the bedrooms and

1086
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 1: converted it and I slept in the other bedroom. And uh,

1087
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 1: I didn't even see it. I was on tour at

1088
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 1: the Offspring. I come home, directions to my house or

1089
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: my new place are are on the seat of my

1090
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,359
Speaker 1: new jeep, Grand Cherokee, which I had bought before I left,

1091
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 1: and sitting in my garage in Sherman Oaks. I drive down,

1092
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:38,280
Speaker 1: It's like, Wow, this is it. And it was challenging

1093
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: because all of a sudden, you know, I would come

1094
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 1: home from work and it would be quiet, and I've

1095
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 1: done one of these guys. I was out every single

1096
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 1: night now VISU and I don't know where to go.

1097
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: And it was what I needed at that point in

1098
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 1: my life. If I wanted to change my life, I

1099
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,319
Speaker 1: knew I wanted something different. I didn't know what it was,

1100
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 1: but I knew if I just kept filling that void

1101
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: with activity, it was nothing going to change. I was

1102
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:01,799
Speaker 1: just gonna keep doing the same ship over and over

1103
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 1: and over until I was in my sixties. Okay, So

1104
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 1: was the next step the deal with time Bomb with

1105
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: Clive Davis. The next step was Michelle Anthony, who had

1106
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,879
Speaker 1: been Soundgarden's lawyer, had gone to Sony and she said,

1107
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: Donny's gonna call you. I said, what She goes, Donnie

1108
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 1: and Tommy want you to come to New York. They

1109
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 1: want you to be the president of Columbia Records. I'm like, oh, wow,

1110
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, that's a big gig if you've

1111
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 1: been a career music person. It was a This was

1112
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 1: sixty three days after I moved to Laguna. I'm like,

1113
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: and at that point, you know, I've got the offspring.

1114
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:35,479
Speaker 1: I had had a good career as a record guy.

1115
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 1: I'm having my moment and Clive wants me to come

1116
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 1: in and I had met with Danny about some stuff

1117
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: and it's kind of going like you know, I mean,

1118
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: like I'm I'm in the mix. And this is the

1119
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 1: point where I'm kind of quasi down shifting, you know,

1120
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 1: And all of a sudden it's heating up. And they

1121
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 1: fly me into New York and I go to New

1122
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 1: York and I sit down and they tell me what

1123
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 1: it would be to be president of Columbia Records. The

1124
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 1: youngest president, you know, and the biggest label, and it's

1125
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 1: Yankee Stadium, it's Harvard and you know, like in the

1126
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 1: five Madison building, you know what I mean. And it's

1127
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: it's impressive and I go right along with it. And

1128
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 1: Dave Johnson comes in, he starts writing the contract. And

1129
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:11,399
Speaker 1: I get home and I tell a friend of mine,

1130
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 1: this girl I worked with it and m Emily Kay,

1131
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: I tell her, yep, I'm gonna go be the president

1132
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:18,359
Speaker 1: of Columbia and she goes, what is wrong with you.

1133
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 1: She goes, that is just the opposite of what you said.

1134
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 1: I didn't picture you being doing something like that just

1135
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 1: for the money. And it's stung because it was true.

1136
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: It was one of those roads not taken moments where

1137
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 1: you go, you know what, I'm doing it because I

1138
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: think you'll think it's cool. I'm doing it because they'll

1139
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 1: think it's cool. I don't want to go to New York.

1140
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:40,839
Speaker 1: My mom and dad are probably in their eighties at

1141
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 1: this point. You know, they live nearby. I've got a

1142
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: phenomenal relationship with them. I love living in Laguna Beach.

1143
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 1: I've got a life. And it was just enough where

1144
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 1: I called Michelle and I said, I don't want to

1145
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,800
Speaker 1: do it. She was really and Tommy called mint it,

1146
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: I can't believe this is the stupidest thing anybody's ever

1147
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: done in their life. And I said, it may be,

1148
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 1: but it's what I need to do, you know. And

1149
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 1: it was really, really, really a big moment because it

1150
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 1: was also a moment where I said I'm not going

1151
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,360
Speaker 1: to live through my business card. I'm going to have

1152
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: an adult relationship with my job. Up to that point,

1153
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 1: my job had been my life. My job had been

1154
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:15,839
Speaker 1: who I was and how I was defined, and at

1155
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 1: that moment it was like, you know what, it's time

1156
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 1: to put the big boy pants on. You know, this

1157
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:21,799
Speaker 1: is a good job. I like what I do for

1158
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: a living, but it's just a job. It's no longer

1159
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 1: going to be what it was when I was twenty

1160
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: one or fourteen, when I'm listening to Quadraphini and it's

1161
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 1: my religion and everything rolled into one. And I think

1162
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 1: that's what happens is there's attention as you get older

1163
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 1: where it's like, Okay, that doesn't feel right. I have

1164
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,839
Speaker 1: other things that I'm growing into that are interesting to me,

1165
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:45,840
Speaker 1: Like I like to read books to you know what

1166
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:47,319
Speaker 1: I mean. There was a point where it's just I

1167
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 1: just wanted to go to a show every night, and

1168
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,399
Speaker 1: if I party three out of five nights a week.

1169
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: When going whatever, it was just life on the run. Well,

1170
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 1: now in thirty five and I don't want to do

1171
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:58,720
Speaker 1: that anymore. But you move to look at a beach

1172
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 1: and you don't have any solill infrastructure, have no social infrastructure,

1173
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:04,880
Speaker 1: and that's when the walls come in and all of

1174
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,879
Speaker 1: a sudden it's like, Okay, I'm not going to rely

1175
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,799
Speaker 1: on that anymore now concurrent with Sony approaching me. Clive

1176
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 1: had approached me, but he had said, you should just

1177
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 1: do your own label. And Sony had told me I

1178
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 1: can have my own label too well being the president. Um.

1179
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 1: But once I told him I didn't want to be president,

1180
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:22,880
Speaker 1: they weren't putting forth the idea of a label. And

1181
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,359
Speaker 1: so I agreed to do with Clive, you know, and

1182
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure about it, but I had seen what

1183
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 1: Brett Kurwitz had done with Epitaph, and I was very

1184
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 1: impressed with Brett, and I was just the way he

1185
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 1: talked about it, the way that you when you start

1186
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 1: a label. Again, this is gonna sound goofy, but I

1187
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,400
Speaker 1: didn't have my own assistant. I didn't need an assistant.

1188
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 1: If I'm gonna book travel, I'm gonna use the travel

1189
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 1: things on the internet, in which is all new, and

1190
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 1: I'm gonna compose my own letters, because to write it

1191
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 1: out longhand and then have somebody type it and then

1192
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,759
Speaker 1: correct it it was just inefficient. So there was there

1193
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 1: was starting to be this shift where technology would create

1194
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 1: these efficiencies if you're starting your company now, and so

1195
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 1: I figured I want to adopt what Brett's mindset was,

1196
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,319
Speaker 1: and I want to do that. And we signed a

1197
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 1: bunch of great bands, you know, whether it was Social

1198
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 1: Distortion who came aboard and the Vandals we put out

1199
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 1: in Amazing Crowns and Sunny Day Real Estate and Death

1200
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 1: in Vegas and all sorts of great x. But none

1201
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 1: of them hit. You own those records. I was a

1202
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: joint venture, so I owned half of them. Why do

1203
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:25,759
Speaker 1: you think they didn't hit? There weren't hits. It wasn't

1204
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 1: a matter of not having enough infrastructure to promote them. No,

1205
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 1: at this point, here's what infrastructure looks like. Okay, what

1206
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 1: is required. You call Kevin Weatherly, if he agrees with you,

1207
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 1: it goes on k Rock. If it gets hot, it

1208
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:41,359
Speaker 1: picks up ten markets the next week. Once you get

1209
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 1: those ten markets, you call Rick Krim and he's like,

1210
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 1: if he agrees with those ten markets, you're on MTV. Wait,

1211
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: we did that gag over at A and m over

1212
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:52,360
Speaker 1: and over again. You know, but you had to have reality.

1213
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 1: And the beauty about what was going on in the

1214
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 1: record industry at this point was what Mike Chalotte had

1215
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:59,439
Speaker 1: created with sound Scan. You now knew when something was real.

1216
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 1: You now knew right away you could see that thing

1217
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:06,360
Speaker 1: that would happen. If Drama Rama had hit in ninety

1218
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,840
Speaker 1: four instead of eight five or eighty six, with anything Anything,

1219
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 1: you would have seen the sales explode out of Bob

1220
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 1: Says store, and and it would have been more visible,

1221
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 1: it would have been more more legible to the powers

1222
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 1: that be that controlled the media. And so those just

1223
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 1: weren't hits. They would get on the air and they

1224
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,400
Speaker 1: would be passive. What did you learn in that process?

1225
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:29,359
Speaker 1: I learned having hits is very, very hard, and when

1226
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:32,719
Speaker 1: when you find them, you know, it's it takes a

1227
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 1: certain genius to find acts, or be patient long enough

1228
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 1: for a black hole sun to come along, or for

1229
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 1: social distortion to have a These are years in the

1230
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 1: making these bands. You bet on the band and then eventually,

1231
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 1: but at this point things are starting to turn into

1232
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: a bit of a microwave in the record industry, and

1233
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:52,720
Speaker 1: there's an expectation of it happening a little bit quicker.

1234
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,239
Speaker 1: Certainly there was for me. How long did you do

1235
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: it with Clive Well, through him leaving, you know, through

1236
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:00,839
Speaker 1: him leaving you know, I mean I was still with

1237
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 1: BMG at the point when Clive left you're talking about

1238
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 1: when he left Arista informed J. Yeah, So how many

1239
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:10,240
Speaker 1: years was that? I don't remember exactly, Okay, but today

1240
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:13,919
Speaker 1: do you remember presenting my time bomb stuff right after

1241
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 1: Puffy one time at a BMG thing And it was

1242
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:19,919
Speaker 1: torture because he was so big and it was such

1243
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 1: a monster, and I'm coming in with all these little

1244
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 1: indie bands being like, oh gosh, and it owns those

1245
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 1: records today now Concorde owns it. At some point BMG

1246
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 1: wanted out and they said, you can keep the Masters,

1247
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 1: but we want to terminate the deal, and so I

1248
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 1: got the Masters, and then years later sold him to Concord. Okay,

1249
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 1: and how was your experience working with Claude Davis? Well?

1250
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 1: He was a trip. What I was trying to do.

1251
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 1: I don't think he understood really, but he gave me

1252
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 1: a lot of room to prove that I was right,

1253
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 1: and I didn't prove that I was right many people

1254
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 1: from the rock world because splitting his ten ures in half,

1255
00:57:57,600 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: you had the era of Columbia. Then he went to

1256
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:02,920
Speaker 1: aristad Face soon after Patti Smith and a few of

1257
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 1: the Kinks whatever. He went very pop sure and the

1258
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 1: people from ROC and went to work for Clive ultimately

1259
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: complained that it became a pop sensibility where's the hit

1260
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 1: micro management? And they were not happy and they were

1261
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 1: not given much leeway. But it seems that your situation

1262
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 1: was different. It was much different. He gave me a

1263
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 1: lot of leeway. He was very curious. I remember one

1264
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 1: time him grabbed me in the elevators. Time Bomb is

1265
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 1: not the right name for your label, you know, And

1266
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 1: I wanted something that evoked the stacks vault, you know

1267
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 1: type thing. I wanted something like that that you can

1268
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 1: make a great T shirt out of. And and I've

1269
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:37,480
Speaker 1: got the great time Bomb logo and it looked really

1270
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 1: really cool. I'm like wow. But that kind of was

1271
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 1: was a bit of a non secret of the conversation.

1272
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 1: He gave me as much room to operate and resources

1273
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 1: to operate. I just didn't hit it. I just didn't.

1274
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 1: I failed at it. You know. I would love to

1275
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:52,800
Speaker 1: have had one of those records hit and been able

1276
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 1: to say, ah, proof of concept, but I didn't. But

1277
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:56,480
Speaker 1: the deal, if you were there that long, how to

1278
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 1: be renewed. It was renewed. So thank you. You know,

1279
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 1: he gave me a great oportunity. So at what point

1280
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:04,479
Speaker 1: do you start picking up other acts from management. Well,

1281
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 1: at this point I had become very very close with

1282
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 1: Chris Cornell through Sound Garden and he's getting ready to

1283
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 1: leave Sound Garden, and I don't know exactly how it

1284
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 1: came up with Susan, who's still one of my best friends,

1285
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:22,919
Speaker 1: but she says, I'm not going to manage your solo career,

1286
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 1: Jim should do it. And it was like the three

1287
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 1: of us, you know, I mean like we would meet

1288
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:29,760
Speaker 1: and talk about them purchasing their first home, like this

1289
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 1: is how you're gonna do it, you know. I mean

1290
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 1: we're really really, really close. And so I'm like, yeah, okay,

1291
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 1: you know, and and so I start managing Chris and

1292
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 1: then I take on Ran said they're on Epitaph. They

1293
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: were getting ready to leave to go to Epic Records.

1294
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 1: Michael Goldstone was signing them, and ran into them at

1295
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 1: a Fillmore show that the Offspring were doing. And at

1296
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 1: this point, they're kind of personna on Garrata at Epitaph

1297
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 1: because they're leaving and they're really unhappy, like you could

1298
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 1: just see the strain on them. And I see Tim

1299
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:00,560
Speaker 1: and I see Lars. I'm like, guys, what's the deal

1300
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 1: and just you know, this is hard and while then

1301
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: why are you leaving? You know, clearly the Offspring have

1302
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:08,320
Speaker 1: shown you can have success, and they're like, well, it

1303
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,480
Speaker 1: feels like we're too far down the road, and I'm like,

1304
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 1: never too far. And so within a month they had

1305
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:15,480
Speaker 1: had reached out to me and said would you manage us?

1306
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 1: And I said, yeah, I love the band. I think

1307
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 1: they're great and I love the guys, and um I

1308
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 1: called Brett up and I said, hey, listen, they're not

1309
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:25,439
Speaker 1: going to go to epic. Do you want him back?

1310
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 1: And he was are your kidding? Because he was heartbroken.

1311
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:29,040
Speaker 1: I think it was his favorite band of all time

1312
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 1: on epitaph. And I said, yeah, here's you know what

1313
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 1: it would look like to do, and if you're agreeable

1314
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 1: to that, let's meet with the guys in the next

1315
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 1: couple of days. He's like, you're not joking me, and

1316
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:40,720
Speaker 1: I said no. I said, We've seen through the Offspring

1317
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:43,920
Speaker 1: that anything that they can have success. You guys have

1318
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 1: sold a lot of records on a worldwide basis. There's

1319
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 1: no reason, you know. He goes wow, you know, And

1320
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 1: so it was a really great moment where they kind

1321
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:57,040
Speaker 1: of returned was that the right choice, no question, because

1322
01:00:57,040 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 1: they're still there by the way, and they've had opportunities

1323
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 1: to leave. You know, that's where they're kind of heart

1324
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 1: and soul is. You know, they were that kind of band.

1325
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 1: So we complete that record cycle, record called Let's Go,

1326
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 1: get a video called Salvation on MTV, come out without

1327
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 1: an outcome the Wolves, and it sells two million copies.

1328
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 1: So it worked, you know, and they were doing really

1329
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 1: really well. Okay, So now you have RANSD Yeah, and

1330
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 1: then Chris Social Distortion in the Offspring. Suddenly you're a manager.

1331
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 1: You're comfortable with that because you're someone who's always evaluating

1332
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 1: your direction. Yeah, I am. I'm I'm okay with it

1333
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 1: because I love the bands that I'm working with, and

1334
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 1: I'm comfortable with it. By this point, I've I've gotten married.

1335
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 1: I get married in ninety seven and we start having kids.

1336
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 1: We have Jessica in October. Uh, and I'm a dad too.

1337
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 1: So life is kind of all all over and and

1338
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:47,760
Speaker 1: and changing for sure, and I'm having a I'm having

1339
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 1: a good time with it. In the back of your mind,

1340
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 1: are you plotting it all saying this is where I

1341
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:53,479
Speaker 1: want to be next, but this is what I want

1342
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 1: or you're just going with the flow. I'm going with

1343
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:58,120
Speaker 1: it at this point. I'm really, you know, trying very

1344
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:01,800
Speaker 1: hard to remain in laguon a beach somewhere between Crown

1345
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 1: Valley and Broadway, you know, and like I'm really trying

1346
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 1: not to travel. One of the things that I would

1347
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 1: say to everybody along is getting big z easy. Staying

1348
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:11,920
Speaker 1: small as hard. Saying no is hard to do because

1349
01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 1: what do you say no to at that time? More opportunities,

1350
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 1: more bands, because everybody wants you to manage a band.

1351
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:18,880
Speaker 1: You can only do so much before you lose a

1352
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,800
Speaker 1: connection with them. So I think it's ninety eight that

1353
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: I pick up No Doubt, you know. And what is

1354
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 1: the status of No Doubt at that time? Well, they

1355
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:29,480
Speaker 1: they had Tragic Kingdom and they sold b zillions of records.

1356
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 1: Tom Attensio right, right, So how did it end with Atensio?

1357
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly. I think they mutually agreed to

1358
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 1: part ways, is what I understand. I've known Tom because

1359
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:41,680
Speaker 1: he was managing New Order back in the day. Geiger

1360
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 1: was the agent. Tom was the manager, and I was

1361
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 1: promoting the shows. Uh. In a lot of instances, uh,

1362
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:49,040
Speaker 1: And you know, Tom was a very capable guy. So

1363
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:51,800
Speaker 1: but at that point, they're on the open market. And

1364
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 1: I've met him over the years just because I grew

1365
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 1: up in Orange County and I've done social distortion, the

1366
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 1: Offspring John Boyle. You know, my first meeting with boy

1367
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:04,200
Speaker 1: Hill is Offspring sublime, no doubt. You know, Big Snow

1368
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 1: Show in ninety four or maybe it was early, you know.

1369
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 1: I remember Gwen coming back and thanking us for having

1370
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 1: them on it. She was really really polite, you know,

1371
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 1: And they were great, great guys. So they become available,

1372
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 1: and every single manager is in the hunt. I mean,

1373
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 1: it is ridiculous. Like every manager you name a person,

1374
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 1: they were in a meeting with him. And it came

1375
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 1: down to myself and Andy Slatter, and I think there

1376
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:30,720
Speaker 1: were a little resistant to me because I was the

1377
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 1: Orange County guy. Because of those things. It felt like

1378
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:37,400
Speaker 1: tow Sammy Sammy. Yeah. But I felt like I also

1379
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 1: was able to communicate my experience to Gwen working with

1380
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 1: Cheryl Crowe and the amount of time I'd spent with

1381
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:45,240
Speaker 1: Cheryl and what that looked like and being able to

1382
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:48,920
Speaker 1: work with a girl and and understanding that and and uh.

1383
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 1: And I think I proved that pretty quickly. I brought

1384
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:54,560
Speaker 1: in this really terrific publicist, Luke Berland. When got her lane,

1385
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 1: I said, Luke, I've got to give this girl her lane.

1386
01:03:56,600 --> 01:03:58,920
Speaker 1: She's like busting at the seams and it's a problem

1387
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:01,120
Speaker 1: with the band, and you know, Gwen getting her solo.

1388
01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 1: It's the traditional thing that we've all seen a million times.

1389
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 1: She's oh, this is easy. I'll just get her in

1390
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 1: all the girls magazines and all the fashion magazines. The

1391
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 1: boys don't want to be in those anyways. And I'm like, oh,

1392
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:12,919
Speaker 1: my god, your genius. And that starts Gwen down that road.

1393
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:14,960
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean to say that she hadn't had any fashion,

1394
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 1: but that really gives her lane independent of the guys.

1395
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 1: And so we're managing them. And then I take on

1396
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:23,320
Speaker 1: Beck and it's like, wow, we're a real management company.

1397
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:26,960
Speaker 1: You know. Isn't this fun? You know? I had a

1398
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 1: great time, but I'm starting to get a little older.

1399
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:32,680
Speaker 1: I'm starting to have more kids. And another one of

1400
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:34,920
Speaker 1: those pivotal moments, as I said, I'm gonna be home

1401
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:37,640
Speaker 1: at five o'clock for dinner. I will be home every

1402
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 1: night at five o'clock for dinner. And I make a

1403
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 1: point to be home every night at five o'clock for dinner.

1404
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:43,040
Speaker 1: Nless I have to be in New York or you know,

1405
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 1: there's something going on, you know. But I say that's

1406
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 1: going to be part of my daily routine, and I

1407
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:50,040
Speaker 1: start moving my clock back, and I start getting up earlier,

1408
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:52,200
Speaker 1: waking in the morning and taking care of New York

1409
01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 1: and Europe. But five o'clock and I give, you know,

1410
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 1: the receptionist, the list of these people. If they call,

1411
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 1: call the house, no body else, just send an email

1412
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 1: and I'll check it at the end of the nine

1413
01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:05,200
Speaker 1: If it was urgent, I'll deal with it. And that

1414
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 1: was good for you. Do you think it hurt your

1415
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:09,200
Speaker 1: business at all? I don't think it hurt my business. Initially.

1416
01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 1: I think it probably contributed to losing nine inch nails.

1417
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:18,240
Speaker 1: I think it probably contributed to losing, no doubt. And

1418
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:20,720
Speaker 1: those were the first jobs I've ever lost. I've never

1419
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:25,040
Speaker 1: been fired from a job before. And I realized afterwards,

1420
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:28,600
Speaker 1: when somebody would say, like, wow, what they're going to

1421
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:30,480
Speaker 1: come back. You did a great job for those bags,

1422
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:33,920
Speaker 1: never come back. I remember saying, they can offer me

1423
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 1: double And it wasn't because I was angry at them,

1424
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:38,800
Speaker 1: because I'm not angry at them, but I realized I

1425
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:42,080
Speaker 1: no longer was that guy. I wasn't the guy that

1426
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 1: was going to eat, sleep, breathe, snort, rub into my belly,

1427
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:49,160
Speaker 1: do everything possible for a band. And they need that

1428
01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 1: and they deserve that, and so I kind of went

1429
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 1: like they did the right thing by getting rid of me.

1430
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:56,000
Speaker 1: They did the right thing. I think I did a

1431
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:58,280
Speaker 1: better job than anybody else could have done for them.

1432
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:00,600
Speaker 1: Don't mistake me. I don't think anybody you know, and

1433
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:02,320
Speaker 1: I've had many people come to me and say, oh,

1434
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:04,920
Speaker 1: you do such a good job. Yeah, I think so.

1435
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 1: That isn't what was on the list of needs, though.

1436
01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:10,440
Speaker 1: The need was. It had to be everything, and they

1437
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 1: deserve that. This is their one career, and I wasn't

1438
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 1: willing to give that. I couldn't divide my loyalty by

1439
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 1: the same token. It must be quite a blow when

1440
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:22,600
Speaker 1: these bands move on. It was initially the first time,

1441
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 1: particularly with Trent, because he was like a brother. I

1442
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:27,240
Speaker 1: talked to the guy every day, you know what I mean,

1443
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 1: I talked to him every single day. I love Trent.

1444
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 1: I think he was the real deal, you know, I mean,

1445
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:36,520
Speaker 1: I think he's extremely talented, he's unbelievably funny. I mean,

1446
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:40,000
Speaker 1: I had so many great times with them, and it stunned.

1447
01:06:40,120 --> 01:06:42,760
Speaker 1: But as I said, you know, it's his name up there, man,

1448
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:45,640
Speaker 1: and he's got a feel that he's got somebody who's

1449
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:49,960
Speaker 1: he's comfortable, is giving everything. And I don't think he

1450
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 1: felt that way with I'm guessing he didn't feel that way.

1451
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:56,080
Speaker 1: Now a couple of questions in retrospect. Were there signs

1452
01:06:56,480 --> 01:06:59,520
Speaker 1: that these acts were going to move on? For sure? Absolutely?

1453
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:03,040
Speaker 1: Any time you have an argument over money that you're

1454
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:06,560
Speaker 1: being paid with a client, that's a tell. And I

1455
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:09,080
Speaker 1: walked in the very next day and said, we are

1456
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 1: not going to be managing Gwen. I knew. And then

1457
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 1: the next thing becomes any contact with these acts thereafter. Yeah,

1458
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:18,520
Speaker 1: actually both of them. In fact, I just heard from

1459
01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 1: Trent right around the holidays, not for a long time

1460
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:24,600
Speaker 1: and not consistent. I heard from Gwen and I said,

1461
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:26,200
Speaker 1: I just want to thank you for everything you did

1462
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:27,960
Speaker 1: for me and my family. I thought it was very,

1463
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:30,520
Speaker 1: very nice. And I heard from Trent recently said, you know,

1464
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:32,160
Speaker 1: we should get together. It's been a while, you know,

1465
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:36,840
Speaker 1: So now those two acts are gone. Social distortion, you're

1466
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:39,200
Speaker 1: not as involved. I'm not involved at all. I had,

1467
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:42,440
Speaker 1: I had stopped managing them. There was a point where,

1468
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:46,840
Speaker 1: after twenty six years, I just said I had spotted

1469
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:50,240
Speaker 1: in myself what I would ultimately spot post nine inch

1470
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 1: nails and and no doubt where it's time for them

1471
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 1: to move on. It's time for Mike to assert a

1472
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:57,640
Speaker 1: greater role. It had always been like, you do everything

1473
01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 1: on stage, I do everything else. Well, he started having

1474
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:04,160
Speaker 1: opinions about the business and I resisted that, like, I

1475
01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't think that's a very good idea.

1476
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 1: I had spent so much time with this guy. I

1477
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:11,880
Speaker 1: just wasn't willing to alter my mode of how I

1478
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 1: was going to do that at this stage of my life.

1479
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:16,519
Speaker 1: And I said, I think it's time for us. It

1480
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:21,800
Speaker 1: was at my uh suggestion. My son boxes over at

1481
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 1: this gym, and Mike boxes at the gym, and he's

1482
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:26,799
Speaker 1: amazing with my son. You know, he gives the T shirts,

1483
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 1: he gave him some boxing shoes, and I've stayed very

1484
01:08:29,400 --> 01:08:31,920
Speaker 1: close contact with him. And a guy in my office

1485
01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 1: who was the day to day guy started managing them.

1486
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 1: So in your office, now your peak, how many people

1487
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:41,280
Speaker 1: were working there and how many people now one you well,

1488
01:08:41,320 --> 01:08:43,880
Speaker 1: one more Larry, okay, and so what are you guys

1489
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:47,000
Speaker 1: working on now? Well, we continue to manage the offspring.

1490
01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:50,400
Speaker 1: If Robbie ever has anything he once done, I'm always

1491
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:53,639
Speaker 1: available to Robbie because I love Robbie. Um. I'm getting

1492
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:57,639
Speaker 1: ready to teach twenty four ap US history courses UH

1493
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:01,519
Speaker 1: to eleventh graders at a UH school in Orange County,

1494
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:03,840
Speaker 1: and I love doing that and that's my third year

1495
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:06,680
Speaker 1: doing that, so I'm preparing me. We've talked about this.

1496
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:08,040
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit more about what the course

1497
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 1: is about. Well, it's based on the sixties, and it's

1498
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:13,360
Speaker 1: a p U s history. So it's not like, hey,

1499
01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:15,640
Speaker 1: tell me what Donovan meant when he said, you know,

1500
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:18,599
Speaker 1: electric banana. You know what I mean. Although that's part

1501
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:20,800
Speaker 1: of the sixties and you have to understand that, but

1502
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:23,799
Speaker 1: is not the core thing. I start off in the fifties,

1503
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:25,479
Speaker 1: and I start off, you know, really all the way

1504
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:29,559
Speaker 1: back in when when Russia gets nuclear capability and what

1505
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:31,719
Speaker 1: the flip was, how did they become not an ally

1506
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:33,960
Speaker 1: and they became that? And how the Cold War starts.

1507
01:09:34,360 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 1: And I take through the Cold War through sput Nick,

1508
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,439
Speaker 1: through ury Gagar and through the fact that they can

1509
01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:41,760
Speaker 1: put rockets in the air and we can't. What does

1510
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:45,000
Speaker 1: that look like? In nineteen sixty, when John Kennedy is

1511
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:49,559
Speaker 1: elected by point, most people say he stole the election

1512
01:09:49,600 --> 01:09:51,960
Speaker 1: out of Chicago. And you know, I say this to

1513
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:55,559
Speaker 1: my students. He won by d twelve eight hundred boats.

1514
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:57,720
Speaker 1: I'll do this with you. I'll play the gag with you.

1515
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:01,120
Speaker 1: He wins nationally by a hundred twelve thousand, eight hundred boats.

1516
01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:03,959
Speaker 1: Cook County, one county in the US that houses Chicago.

1517
01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 1: How many votes does he beat Richard Nixon by there?

1518
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:09,920
Speaker 1: I would guess a hundred twelve four hundred and fifty

1519
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:14,599
Speaker 1: thousand and one county. So you've got a guy coming

1520
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:17,679
Speaker 1: out of World War Two where it's not nine eleven

1521
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 1: worth three thousand people die, or San Bernardino where fourteen

1522
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:23,519
Speaker 1: people die World War two or somewhere between sixty and

1523
01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:27,640
Speaker 1: eighty million people die, and you've got Isis on steroids

1524
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:31,800
Speaker 1: called Russia with nuclear weapons, you know. And so do

1525
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:33,320
Speaker 1: you go to Vietnam or not? And that's why I

1526
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 1: say the kids, do you go to Vietnam? And that

1527
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:37,720
Speaker 1: which looks like an inevitable thing? In nineteen sixty how

1528
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 1: does it become a big mistake by nineteen sixty sixty seven?

1529
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:42,400
Speaker 1: And so we have a lot of fun doing that.

1530
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:44,439
Speaker 1: And I love doing this the same way that that

1531
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 1: I probably, you know, obsessed over the B side of

1532
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:51,960
Speaker 1: an import Jam single in nineteen you know eighty. I

1533
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:55,160
Speaker 1: love being able to do this and and use media

1534
01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:57,080
Speaker 1: and and and how to do all those things. So

1535
01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:58,800
Speaker 1: I'm having a lot of fun doing that. Also, you

1536
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:00,880
Speaker 1: did a book with Robbie Robert I did. We did

1537
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:03,479
Speaker 1: it with Robbie and his son Sebastian and Jared Levine.

1538
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:06,200
Speaker 1: And uh, when I did that book, it was interesting.

1539
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:08,240
Speaker 1: We had the Scholastic book fair at my kids school

1540
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:11,200
Speaker 1: and the person who was running it came up and said, hey,

1541
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:14,479
Speaker 1: we have authors. Come, You're an author. Like I laugh,

1542
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:15,960
Speaker 1: because I don't feel like an author, do you know

1543
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:17,680
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like I just did that, you know.

1544
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:21,200
Speaker 1: And it was legends, icons, and and rebels, twenty seven

1545
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:24,679
Speaker 1: artists that changed the world. And you would talk about

1546
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:26,920
Speaker 1: these artists in the context of what they were doing,

1547
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:30,800
Speaker 1: you know, and what why it was different? Why Sam Why? Yeah,

1548
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:33,639
Speaker 1: Bob Dylan going electric is a big deal. But Sam

1549
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:36,479
Speaker 1: Cook leaving the church why is that so big? Way,

1550
01:11:36,479 --> 01:11:39,080
Speaker 1: he goes on to form a record company before Barry

1551
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:41,960
Speaker 1: Gordy first, you know, African Americana doing that who by

1552
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:44,479
Speaker 1: the way his an arguiser, Lou Adler and Herb Albert,

1553
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:46,360
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And he starts a publishing

1554
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:49,920
Speaker 1: company and the night before Ali defeats Listen, he's in

1555
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:52,760
Speaker 1: a hotel room with Malcolm X and Muhammad Ali and

1556
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:54,559
Speaker 1: they're talking about and and you know, you kind of

1557
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:58,080
Speaker 1: put them in in the context of that. And so

1558
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:00,439
Speaker 1: I went and did the presentation for the book, and

1559
01:12:00,479 --> 01:12:02,160
Speaker 1: I decided I'm gonna do it kind of rock and

1560
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 1: roll stone. So I do a bunch of media, and

1561
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:07,000
Speaker 1: so I have video clips from Louis Jordan and Louis

1562
01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:10,400
Speaker 1: Armstrong and Billie Holiday and Elvis and Little Richard and

1563
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:13,240
Speaker 1: the Beatles, and I take people kind of out of

1564
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:17,559
Speaker 1: end of century marching band John Philip Sousa all the

1565
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:20,040
Speaker 1: way up to Bob Dylan and the band and I

1566
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:22,200
Speaker 1: and I talked about the book in that and that

1567
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:24,599
Speaker 1: became a forty five minute lecture that I've done probably

1568
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:27,840
Speaker 1: fifteen of them, you know, at various schools. Bring me

1569
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 1: in and and I'll do these lectures separate of the A.

1570
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:33,280
Speaker 1: P U. S history, But I love doing that too.

1571
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:36,160
Speaker 1: So I'm finding a little little niche of fun stuff

1572
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:38,000
Speaker 1: for me to do. And and it may only be

1573
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:40,559
Speaker 1: that I sit in front of fifteen students and talk

1574
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:43,720
Speaker 1: about this, but it's mine, you know what I mean.

1575
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:46,519
Speaker 1: It's mine. It may not be on a scale of

1576
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:49,880
Speaker 1: seventeen million records sold, but it's mine, and I feel

1577
01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:51,719
Speaker 1: proud of it, and I like it, and I feel

1578
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:53,640
Speaker 1: that that when a kid comes up to me at

1579
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:55,080
Speaker 1: the end of the year and it was my favorite

1580
01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 1: class I took all year. Yeah, okay, I remember various

1581
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:01,960
Speaker 1: points in our relationship. You were really the first person

1582
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:04,599
Speaker 1: to talk to me about the potential of the internet,

1583
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:08,280
Speaker 1: both in terms of communication and distribution. You were always

1584
01:13:08,280 --> 01:13:10,160
Speaker 1: on the tip temple of the dog. You turned me

1585
01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:13,439
Speaker 1: onto that, you know, before it came out. You gave

1586
01:13:13,439 --> 01:13:15,880
Speaker 1: me the book Generation X. And the reason I put

1587
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:19,120
Speaker 1: all those markers in the landscape is where this is.

1588
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:20,920
Speaker 1: We'll get a little deeper. But where do you think

1589
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:24,360
Speaker 1: we're going now? I would argue that the baby boomers

1590
01:13:24,360 --> 01:13:26,559
Speaker 1: are still alive. They haven't passed away, even though as

1591
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:29,880
Speaker 1: we talk here that Neil Diamonds now got Parkinson's going

1592
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:32,240
Speaker 1: off the Road. We have a lot of classic rockers

1593
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:35,439
Speaker 1: who are dying or can no longer perform, but the

1594
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:38,960
Speaker 1: people who lived through that era are still alive. And

1595
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:41,879
Speaker 1: what do we know. In the sixties music drove the culture.

1596
01:13:42,160 --> 01:13:44,679
Speaker 1: There were very few outlets. Most markets only have three

1597
01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:48,479
Speaker 1: television stations. You live by the radio. Uh, there was

1598
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:51,800
Speaker 1: being in the sixties. Music was the equivalent of social media.

1599
01:13:52,439 --> 01:13:54,559
Speaker 1: But my kids can pull up today and kind of

1600
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:59,200
Speaker 1: network was you hearing? Ohio? That was our connectivity, that

1601
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:02,479
Speaker 1: was our social media. So the music is intertwined in

1602
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:05,920
Speaker 1: that time and Needles just say it blew up financially, etcetera.

1603
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:08,679
Speaker 1: Music has had a couple of ups and downs since then,

1604
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 1: certainly the CD era than the MTV era simultaneous with

1605
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:15,920
Speaker 1: that and the napster going up and down. Now there

1606
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:18,519
Speaker 1: are many people who say today's music is just as

1607
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:20,479
Speaker 1: good as the music before. I don't really want to

1608
01:14:20,479 --> 01:14:25,040
Speaker 1: get into a debate of that, but culturally, where is

1609
01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:27,960
Speaker 1: music in this great pot of life where there's so

1610
01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:30,880
Speaker 1: much else in the landscape, and as a culture, in

1611
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:33,360
Speaker 1: youth culture in it, where do you think it's going?

1612
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:35,760
Speaker 1: What do you think are trends that are going to

1613
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:39,439
Speaker 1: impact the future. Well, that's a lot of a question.

1614
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:45,400
Speaker 1: I have four kids nineteen, seventeen, fourteen, and eleven. Music

1615
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:48,880
Speaker 1: is so important to them. And you go, oh, well

1616
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:51,439
Speaker 1: that's because what you do, Jim, And that's true. Okay.

1617
01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:54,679
Speaker 1: So they can tell you Ray Charles songs and Otis

1618
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:59,320
Speaker 1: Redding songs. But lilus e virt I don't know. I

1619
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:01,200
Speaker 1: didn't turn them into it, you know what I mean?

1620
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:03,679
Speaker 1: And and every one of them knows lit lousy vert,

1621
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:06,360
Speaker 1: you know. Or I remember three years ago going to

1622
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:10,280
Speaker 1: see Flume. I'm like Flume, it's the guy with the

1623
01:15:10,280 --> 01:15:13,960
Speaker 1: computer wave in his hand. Really it was amazing and

1624
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:19,440
Speaker 1: it was really really exciting to see. So I realize

1625
01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:21,960
Speaker 1: I am exactly where I need to be. As I

1626
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:26,960
Speaker 1: turned fifty nine this year, I have no idea. I

1627
01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:30,719
Speaker 1: have no idea where it is my kids. I can't

1628
01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:34,599
Speaker 1: believe hip hop is rock and roll period. The rockers

1629
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:36,559
Speaker 1: can't handle it. They can't handle it, you know what

1630
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:40,720
Speaker 1: I mean. And that's just fine. That is okay, you

1631
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:44,840
Speaker 1: know what I mean, because it's a shift. Sorry, get out.

1632
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:48,719
Speaker 1: You had your time, Dad, you had your This is theirs?

1633
01:15:49,080 --> 01:15:51,519
Speaker 1: Is it? My No, I don't go home and throw

1634
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:53,840
Speaker 1: hip hop on. That's not what I do. I'd rather

1635
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:57,519
Speaker 1: hear it Joe Cocker sing Darling Be Home Soon. But

1636
01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:01,160
Speaker 1: do you think the times were friend? But we're investigating

1637
01:16:01,200 --> 01:16:03,759
Speaker 1: a little bit where the music when hand in hand

1638
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:07,559
Speaker 1: with anti Vietnam were peace rallies, etcetera. We have not

1639
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:11,439
Speaker 1: hit that moment in an era of great discord. And

1640
01:16:11,600 --> 01:16:14,640
Speaker 1: you think that was a moment in time when we

1641
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:17,519
Speaker 1: haven't found the right record. It's not necessary now. It

1642
01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:21,080
Speaker 1: was necessary then because when you and I, and you're

1643
01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:22,760
Speaker 1: just a few years older than main, when you and

1644
01:16:22,800 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 1: I we only had those three stations. That was the

1645
01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:29,200
Speaker 1: modus operandi of communicating between people. How do you raise

1646
01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:32,679
Speaker 1: the consciousness? Well, now you have this the phone since

1647
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:35,479
Speaker 1: two thousand seven. You know you have better vehicles for

1648
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:38,200
Speaker 1: that than than just music. You have things that are

1649
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:42,240
Speaker 1: far more immediate, that are visual, that are communicating. Back then,

1650
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:46,960
Speaker 1: the best you had was to communicate the alienation of

1651
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:49,920
Speaker 1: somebody with their parents. Is is she's leaving home by

1652
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:52,280
Speaker 1: the Beatles and you go, oh, I know that feeling.

1653
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:55,120
Speaker 1: You know, fun is the one thing that money can't buy.

1654
01:16:55,160 --> 01:16:59,479
Speaker 1: I relate. Well, now you can have that within seconds. Okay,

1655
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:02,680
Speaker 1: you don't have to wait for a record. It's been displaced.

1656
01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:05,000
Speaker 1: The need for it has been displaced. It doesn't mean

1657
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:07,360
Speaker 1: that it doesn't exist. It just means that the need

1658
01:17:07,439 --> 01:17:10,840
Speaker 1: for it it's not as pronounced as it was for us.

1659
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:13,680
Speaker 1: For us, the only thing we could count on I

1660
01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:17,000
Speaker 1: was putting that needle down. We couldn't see Wizard of

1661
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:20,519
Speaker 1: Oz unless you wait until Easter. Okay. You couldn't watch

1662
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:22,519
Speaker 1: a movie, you couldn't do play a video. You can

1663
01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:25,120
Speaker 1: do anything. We could control that. We can put that

1664
01:17:25,320 --> 01:17:27,960
Speaker 1: and if we're really clever, we take the arm off

1665
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:31,160
Speaker 1: and it will play it a second time. That was

1666
01:17:31,240 --> 01:17:34,200
Speaker 1: the best we had. Okay. So last night I was

1667
01:17:34,240 --> 01:17:38,120
Speaker 1: comparing the media based charts, which are the radio airplay charts,

1668
01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:41,920
Speaker 1: to Spotify, and in many cases they're different. In our

1669
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:48,200
Speaker 1: era of the business, radio drove consumption. Okay, now where

1670
01:17:48,200 --> 01:17:49,880
Speaker 1: were they different? What was that? What was the I

1671
01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:52,000
Speaker 1: know what the Spotify looks like. I have no idea

1672
01:17:52,080 --> 01:17:56,519
Speaker 1: what radio looks like. Things. Certainly, if you look at

1673
01:17:56,520 --> 01:17:59,800
Speaker 1: the media base top forty, it's more pop. But there

1674
01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:03,280
Speaker 1: are records in all of their charts that are very

1675
01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:05,479
Speaker 1: successful that are not in the U s Top fifty

1676
01:18:05,520 --> 01:18:09,000
Speaker 1: on Spotify. So my question ultimately would be, what do

1677
01:18:09,080 --> 01:18:12,240
Speaker 1: you believe the future of the paradigm is relative to

1678
01:18:12,360 --> 01:18:17,160
Speaker 1: radio streaming on demand? My kids, my two older kids,

1679
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:20,719
Speaker 1: have never heard KROK and they have never seen MTV.

1680
01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:22,640
Speaker 1: I have no idea what it is they get in

1681
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:25,200
Speaker 1: the car. What do they do for entertainment? They put

1682
01:18:25,240 --> 01:18:28,280
Speaker 1: something on on their phone through the system, whether it's SoundCloud,

1683
01:18:28,439 --> 01:18:31,280
Speaker 1: which my older daughter has turned me onto so much

1684
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:35,000
Speaker 1: music through SoundCloud. She finds stuff on SoundCloud or through Tumbler,

1685
01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:38,440
Speaker 1: you know, all these different places. But who wants the commercials?

1686
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:41,160
Speaker 1: Who wants I'm with you totally, I mean. But the

1687
01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:43,360
Speaker 1: reason it's fascinating to me is two fold. We live

1688
01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:46,959
Speaker 1: in a disinformation community where a lot of traditional outlets

1689
01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:50,360
Speaker 1: focused on these old things which will ultimately be decimated.

1690
01:18:50,680 --> 01:18:53,240
Speaker 1: And of course we've also learned in the Internet world

1691
01:18:53,439 --> 01:18:56,080
Speaker 1: you can be too early. So the key is making

1692
01:18:56,120 --> 01:19:00,479
Speaker 1: that transition. But it's fascinating because we have a major

1693
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:05,000
Speaker 1: media that missed the nationalistic uprising which we've seen around

1694
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:08,800
Speaker 1: the world ultimately resulted in Trump getting elected. Shifting to

1695
01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:10,760
Speaker 1: another gear because I know you're a student of this

1696
01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:13,400
Speaker 1: In terms of the tech, I would say for the

1697
01:19:13,479 --> 01:19:16,839
Speaker 1: last twenty years tectro of the culture. But I believe

1698
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:20,240
Speaker 1: that is done. We have four major companies, the whole

1699
01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:22,640
Speaker 1: thing of you know, a new app every week, a

1700
01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:26,200
Speaker 1: new device. We don't have that. What do you think

1701
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:29,439
Speaker 1: drives the culture or what the next thing we're going

1702
01:19:29,479 --> 01:19:32,920
Speaker 1: to be rallying around is. Well, I really don't know, Bob.

1703
01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:35,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I really none of us know. But you

1704
01:19:35,400 --> 01:19:37,439
Speaker 1: you tend to be a student giving an opinion. Yeah,

1705
01:19:37,479 --> 01:19:41,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I love the marvelous Mrs Mizelle.

1706
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:43,800
Speaker 1: How am I sitting there watching a television show on

1707
01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:48,320
Speaker 1: Amazon Prime on my iPad? Well, I'm on a recumbent

1708
01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:51,320
Speaker 1: bike and having a great experience doing it. You know,

1709
01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:53,400
Speaker 1: you hold your phone two inches from your eyes. It's

1710
01:19:53,439 --> 01:19:55,240
Speaker 1: as big as a sixty inch television set. When you're

1711
01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:57,519
Speaker 1: sitting to anything away, you know, people are like, oh,

1712
01:19:57,600 --> 01:19:59,720
Speaker 1: it's too small screen. I prefer to watch on the

1713
01:19:59,720 --> 01:20:01,880
Speaker 1: I I find it more intimate. I love it, you know,

1714
01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:03,479
Speaker 1: I mean, and I can choose to do it when

1715
01:20:03,479 --> 01:20:05,240
Speaker 1: I want to do it. So I think our our

1716
01:20:05,360 --> 01:20:09,519
Speaker 1: consumption of media is going through the roof. It's going

1717
01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:12,519
Speaker 1: through I'm watching more than I've ever watched. But it

1718
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:14,840
Speaker 1: fits in the niche of when I can watch, you know,

1719
01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:17,240
Speaker 1: whereas previously would be just like, oh no, I haven't

1720
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:19,160
Speaker 1: seen that yet. Oh I have a chance, you know.

1721
01:20:19,479 --> 01:20:22,120
Speaker 1: And so I don't think any of that is necessarily

1722
01:20:22,200 --> 01:20:24,720
Speaker 1: really going to change, you know, I really, well, do

1723
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:27,439
Speaker 1: you find yourself I don't want to box you in

1724
01:20:27,479 --> 01:20:30,800
Speaker 1: a corner here, but you find yourself keeping up more

1725
01:20:30,840 --> 01:20:34,600
Speaker 1: on TV than you do on music? Yeah? Probably? Do

1726
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:37,519
Speaker 1: you keep up on music? I do? But I am

1727
01:20:37,720 --> 01:20:41,439
Speaker 1: unique in that I have three teenagers and I am

1728
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:45,479
Speaker 1: spoon fed NonStop of of what we've got to see.

1729
01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:48,680
Speaker 1: Brock Hampton at Coachella. Okay, you know, I mean I

1730
01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:51,240
Speaker 1: better check that out. I better get the Coachella playlist.

1731
01:20:51,360 --> 01:20:53,000
Speaker 1: I better sit there and I just sit there and

1732
01:20:53,280 --> 01:20:58,080
Speaker 1: I'll review all that stuff because once the Coachella set

1733
01:20:58,080 --> 01:21:00,360
Speaker 1: times come out, I gotta make my because I got

1734
01:21:00,479 --> 01:21:02,759
Speaker 1: to overlap. I gotta see the ones that I share

1735
01:21:02,760 --> 01:21:05,280
Speaker 1: with my kids, which ones they'll actually let me see

1736
01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:07,200
Speaker 1: with them, and which ones I'll have to go stand alone.

1737
01:21:08,360 --> 01:21:10,639
Speaker 1: You know that's cool. I'm okay with that. Why, as

1738
01:21:10,680 --> 01:21:12,800
Speaker 1: I say, the music that can be overwhelming. There's a

1739
01:21:12,840 --> 01:21:16,599
Speaker 1: station on the satellite serious x MU, and you'll tune

1740
01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:18,760
Speaker 1: that in. You'll here's something good, and then you'll say

1741
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:20,880
Speaker 1: to yourself, am I the only person who ever heard this?

1742
01:21:21,360 --> 01:21:24,439
Speaker 1: It's a very weird experience. We want community, which is

1743
01:21:24,840 --> 01:21:27,200
Speaker 1: what you know. It costs much more to make a

1744
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:29,880
Speaker 1: television show than to make the average record, so there's

1745
01:21:29,920 --> 01:21:32,519
Speaker 1: a limited amount of product, but you can discover something,

1746
01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:36,640
Speaker 1: own it, and discuss it with people. It's an amazing community.

1747
01:21:37,200 --> 01:21:42,760
Speaker 1: And you know, to what degree has television usurped the

1748
01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:45,839
Speaker 1: power of music? Yeah? I don't think so. It's interesting

1749
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:47,840
Speaker 1: because I see it with my again, with my kids,

1750
01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:51,760
Speaker 1: with me for sure. Not with my kids, no way.

1751
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:55,320
Speaker 1: Now they appreciate television, but music is portable. It's on

1752
01:21:55,360 --> 01:21:58,240
Speaker 1: the go. They can do this, and their community is

1753
01:21:58,439 --> 01:22:02,320
Speaker 1: much more activated around music experience. They're going to shows,

1754
01:22:02,360 --> 01:22:05,960
Speaker 1: They're unbelievably active. But it's a world apart from me.

1755
01:22:06,200 --> 01:22:08,240
Speaker 1: For sure. I want to see Kodak Black. They come

1756
01:22:08,280 --> 01:22:13,080
Speaker 1: on at you know, really, Okay, what's Kodak Black? I

1757
01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:16,360
Speaker 1: have no idea, Like, I literally have no idea, idea,

1758
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:18,040
Speaker 1: and then I have to go check it out. It's like, oh,

1759
01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:21,840
Speaker 1: it's hit hip hop thing, you know. But they're all

1760
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:24,040
Speaker 1: over it, you know what I mean? And their friends

1761
01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:27,120
Speaker 1: are too, They all know it. How about the identity,

1762
01:22:27,200 --> 01:22:30,720
Speaker 1: since you're the expert, certainly, I don't have any children. Um,

1763
01:22:30,760 --> 01:22:33,040
Speaker 1: when we grew up, there was a very clear delineation

1764
01:22:33,640 --> 01:22:37,160
Speaker 1: of who was talent, who was famous, and who was not. Theoretically,

1765
01:22:37,200 --> 01:22:38,960
Speaker 1: you could try to jump through hoops, get a record deal,

1766
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:40,960
Speaker 1: you could try to be an actor on television. That

1767
01:22:41,080 --> 01:22:45,360
Speaker 1: was very rarefied here, whereas today, you know, they're Instagram

1768
01:22:45,479 --> 01:22:49,679
Speaker 1: stars people. To what degree do you feel that your

1769
01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:53,000
Speaker 1: kids or kids in general, adore the anointed stars or

1770
01:22:53,040 --> 01:22:56,719
Speaker 1: want to be stars themselves. I don't see them wanting

1771
01:22:56,720 --> 01:22:59,519
Speaker 1: to be stars themselves. I don't see them falling for

1772
01:22:59,560 --> 01:23:02,920
Speaker 1: the quote unquote anointed stars. But I see them all

1773
01:23:02,960 --> 01:23:06,160
Speaker 1: over social media picking up on people. If somebody tells

1774
01:23:06,240 --> 01:23:08,400
Speaker 1: them it's cool, they sense it right away and smell

1775
01:23:08,439 --> 01:23:10,960
Speaker 1: a rat there's something, you know. But if all of

1776
01:23:11,000 --> 01:23:13,880
Speaker 1: a sudden, there on Instagram and they see stuff or

1777
01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:16,680
Speaker 1: on a snap story or something that they're following, like,

1778
01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:19,840
Speaker 1: how do you know this? Well? I follow on Instagram

1779
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:21,800
Speaker 1: and the one that I discovered this year the fence

1780
01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:24,679
Speaker 1: to account. You know, everybody has a fence to account.

1781
01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:30,880
Speaker 1: Really yeah, fensta fake in? Okay, Okay. So if you

1782
01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:32,760
Speaker 1: had to do it all over again, and although I

1783
01:23:32,760 --> 01:23:34,960
Speaker 1: think I know the answer, but I'm gonna ask it anyway,

1784
01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:38,160
Speaker 1: would you do anything differently? Well, of course not. But

1785
01:23:38,479 --> 01:23:41,280
Speaker 1: the one thing I regret is what I put my

1786
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:44,120
Speaker 1: parents through. I made it rough on them. They had

1787
01:23:44,160 --> 01:23:46,920
Speaker 1: a rough time. Forget now that because I'm a parent.

1788
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:48,800
Speaker 1: I felt this way before I had kids. You know,

1789
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:52,360
Speaker 1: they were overmatched. When you talk about that generation gap,

1790
01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think it's easy to convey to

1791
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:57,200
Speaker 1: kids today what that look like, where there was such

1792
01:23:57,240 --> 01:24:00,240
Speaker 1: a splinter where they looked at you, like, where did

1793
01:24:00,280 --> 01:24:04,040
Speaker 1: you come from? What happened? You were? We were good parents,

1794
01:24:04,080 --> 01:24:06,760
Speaker 1: We we we did right, you know, and and you're

1795
01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:09,200
Speaker 1: just off the rails, you know. And I think that's

1796
01:24:09,240 --> 01:24:11,400
Speaker 1: really a sign of what the seventies look like, not

1797
01:24:11,479 --> 01:24:13,519
Speaker 1: just the sixties, because the seventies. I always used the

1798
01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:16,840
Speaker 1: example of Silence of the Lambs where the FBI agent

1799
01:24:16,880 --> 01:24:19,080
Speaker 1: is talking to Claris and he says, remember the first

1800
01:24:19,080 --> 01:24:22,000
Speaker 1: thing they do is covet So go to the first thing.

1801
01:24:22,280 --> 01:24:26,600
Speaker 1: And I think for people like myself. I coveted the sixties.

1802
01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:30,400
Speaker 1: I coveted being in Orange County, Hollywood, in l A.

1803
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:33,920
Speaker 1: And so your passion gets kind of turbocharged for those things,

1804
01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:35,840
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And I think people who

1805
01:24:35,960 --> 01:24:39,120
Speaker 1: were teenagers in the seventies very much wanted to be

1806
01:24:39,240 --> 01:24:44,280
Speaker 1: kids at the sixties. You really are, like, I missed it.

1807
01:24:44,560 --> 01:24:47,200
Speaker 1: I can't believe by that much, you know, I missed

1808
01:24:47,800 --> 01:24:50,640
Speaker 1: that the greatest ever. I never saw the Beatles like

1809
01:24:50,680 --> 01:24:52,639
Speaker 1: I can't believe. I've still pissed at you for seeing

1810
01:24:52,720 --> 01:24:56,200
Speaker 1: Laura Narrow a few times. Okay, And in the thirty

1811
01:24:56,240 --> 01:24:59,839
Speaker 1: odd years you have left hopefully anything you'd want to achieve.

1812
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:03,640
Speaker 1: Do I still think there's something here having to do

1813
01:25:03,720 --> 01:25:06,800
Speaker 1: with education and the passion I have for education. I

1814
01:25:06,840 --> 01:25:09,360
Speaker 1: like that. I like being able to communicate. I love

1815
01:25:09,360 --> 01:25:11,719
Speaker 1: when you can sit there and still have those moments

1816
01:25:11,720 --> 01:25:14,760
Speaker 1: where you get excited about ideas and things like that,

1817
01:25:14,880 --> 01:25:17,280
Speaker 1: and to see people come up with different ideas. I

1818
01:25:17,320 --> 01:25:18,960
Speaker 1: never want to be that guy on the other side

1819
01:25:18,960 --> 01:25:21,920
Speaker 1: of the glass where Matt Damon slaps the thing or

1820
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:26,920
Speaker 1: the is the Harvard guy who just uses information to

1821
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:29,200
Speaker 1: club other people over, you know, and he goes, what's

1822
01:25:29,240 --> 01:25:31,840
Speaker 1: wrong with you? Do you have an original idea? You know?

1823
01:25:31,880 --> 01:25:33,639
Speaker 1: I don't want to be that. I'd like to hope

1824
01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:35,920
Speaker 1: that I find a voice in all this where it

1825
01:25:35,960 --> 01:25:38,599
Speaker 1: isn't just regurgitating it. You know. It's funny, Bob, this

1826
01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:40,600
Speaker 1: is a great time where all of a sudden, it's like,

1827
01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:43,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. I'm open to a

1828
01:25:43,200 --> 01:25:45,880
Speaker 1: new idea. I'm open to something new because if I

1829
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:49,040
Speaker 1: use what I've got, I'm in a feedback loop. I'm

1830
01:25:49,080 --> 01:25:51,479
Speaker 1: just self referencing again. I need to be open to

1831
01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:53,400
Speaker 1: the idea that I don't know what's next, you know.

1832
01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:56,120
Speaker 1: And if I close myself off and say here, this

1833
01:25:56,160 --> 01:25:57,840
Speaker 1: is what it needs to be, I'm just using the

1834
01:25:57,840 --> 01:25:59,960
Speaker 1: experience i've already got. I want to have a new experience.

1835
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:03,559
Speaker 1: I'm not done. You know. Well, this has really been

1836
01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:07,080
Speaker 1: wonderful for reasons that were unanticipated by me. Because I've

1837
01:26:07,120 --> 01:26:09,919
Speaker 1: had interactions with a lot of these people and sometimes

1838
01:26:09,960 --> 01:26:12,880
Speaker 1: acted differently. And I'm running through my brain. I remember

1839
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:15,559
Speaker 1: I was at Beverly Hills Hotel and a bungalow with

1840
01:26:15,680 --> 01:26:20,400
Speaker 1: a meeting with Donnie Ironer and Michelle Anthony, and I

1841
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:23,639
Speaker 1: remember they showed me a video for the Bob Dylan

1842
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:27,720
Speaker 1: under the blood Red Sky out and I said, it's

1843
01:26:27,720 --> 01:26:29,599
Speaker 1: a staff and you don't tell him what to do.

1844
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:33,639
Speaker 1: And then Donnie called me like a week later and said,

1845
01:26:33,640 --> 01:26:35,519
Speaker 1: you really fucked up. You were there, We were gonna

1846
01:26:35,560 --> 01:26:39,960
Speaker 1: offer you a job, blah blah blah. I didn't even know. Okay.

1847
01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:41,680
Speaker 1: And as I've gotten older, you know, you think of

1848
01:26:41,680 --> 01:26:44,000
Speaker 1: how to play these things. But as many people we

1849
01:26:44,120 --> 01:26:48,240
Speaker 1: discussed here, so many are out of the business. Okay.

1850
01:26:48,360 --> 01:26:50,280
Speaker 1: It's like Donnie, I used to interact with him about

1851
01:26:50,280 --> 01:26:52,960
Speaker 1: ten years ago, and then he ultimately retired, and you

1852
01:26:53,040 --> 01:26:55,719
Speaker 1: make the choices, and then there are other things you're saying,

1853
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:58,080
Speaker 1: and I say, okay, you know, these are spots that

1854
01:26:58,439 --> 01:27:00,439
Speaker 1: maybe I would have wanted to have been in or

1855
01:27:00,520 --> 01:27:03,360
Speaker 1: been a little bit said my personality never could have worked.

1856
01:27:03,400 --> 01:27:07,240
Speaker 1: So this has really been you know, insightful, edifying. Thank

1857
01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:10,400
Speaker 1: you so much until next time. Is That was Jim

1858
01:27:10,439 --> 01:27:13,320
Speaker 1: Garanto on the Bob Left Sets podcast. Thank you Jim,

1859
01:27:13,400 --> 01:27:20,639
Speaker 1: Thank you Bob. That concludes this episode of the Bob

1860
01:27:20,720 --> 01:27:23,599
Speaker 1: Left Sets Podcast. It's really been a thrill learning how

1861
01:27:23,640 --> 01:27:25,479
Speaker 1: some of the biggest acts of our time broke through

1862
01:27:25,760 --> 01:27:28,160
Speaker 1: and hearing directly from the movers and shakers who made

1863
01:27:28,160 --> 01:27:30,240
Speaker 1: it happen. I hope I've been able to add a

1864
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:32,879
Speaker 1: little more context to some of your favorite music memories.

1865
01:27:33,560 --> 01:27:35,800
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and catch you next time on the

1866
01:27:35,840 --> 01:27:37,320
Speaker 1: Bob Left Sets podcast