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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hello again and welcome back to the most interesting podcasts

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Speaker 1: in baseball. It's The Book of Joe with me, Tom

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Speaker 1: Barducci and Joe Madden and Joe, I can't wait to

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Speaker 1: talk to you today because what a story we had.

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Speaker 1: We had the Chicago Cubs with a manager under contract,

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Speaker 1: who go out and they sign a free agent manager

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Speaker 1: and actually get rid of that manager that they had

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Speaker 1: under contract. If that sounds familiar, Joe, I'm sure it does.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we're talking about Craig Counsel, free agent manager

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Speaker 1: hired by the Chicago Cubs who dismissed the incumbent manager,

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Speaker 1: David Ross. Joe, you went through this as a free

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Speaker 1: agent with the Rays signed by the Cubs. Rick Renteria

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Speaker 1: let go in the course of those negotiations. I got

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Speaker 1: to start just your your quick reaction to the turn

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Speaker 1: of events with the Cubs.

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Speaker 2: Well, nobody saw that one coming, right, I didn't. Nobody did,

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Speaker 2: wasn't on the radar at all. I thought the Cubbies

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Speaker 2: were happy with David.

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Speaker 3: You know, I know they failed a little bit at

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Speaker 3: the end.

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Speaker 2: But although I thought they'd gotten back into the race,

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Speaker 2: pretty well, and I don't know.

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Speaker 3: You never know what goes on in the locker room.

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Speaker 2: You don't know what perceptions are like, and you don't

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Speaker 2: know you know what front officers are talking about. And

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Speaker 2: again it's surprised. It's just surprise, and yes, been through it.

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Speaker 2: For me personally, it was both wonderful and not so

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Speaker 2: wonderful because Rick I didn't know Rent real well at all,

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Speaker 2: but Buddy blackspoke so highly of him, so you're thinking

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Speaker 2: about him and his family also, and that means to him,

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Speaker 2: and of course that's that's hard to take or swallow. However,

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Speaker 2: on the other side, you have this opportunity to do

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Speaker 2: something for your family that you wouldn't have a chance

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Speaker 2: to do otherwise, and finally get a chance to manage

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Speaker 2: the Cubs in Chicago.

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Speaker 3: So there's there's so many different layers to this.

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Speaker 2: It's I'm sure Craig's experiencing all these different emotions right now.

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Speaker 2: I attempted to reach out to Rick right after that

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Speaker 2: after it occurred. I did not get to himntil later.

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Speaker 2: You know, he's probably upset, and I don't I don't

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Speaker 2: dispute that I would have been also, so tough situation.

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Speaker 2: I did reach out to ROSSI yesterday. I did text him.

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Speaker 2: I have not heard back yet, but I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Man. It's it's it's like I said, it's both.

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Speaker 2: It's wonderful and horrible for the for the for the

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Speaker 2: manager getting hired.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's well put. It is bittersweet. On the one hand,

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Speaker 1: you know, the Cubs had an opportunity to get a

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Speaker 1: manager they consider one of the one or two best

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Speaker 1: in the game. He was a free agent. You know, listen,

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Speaker 1: I do think the Cubs liked the job that David

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Speaker 1: Ross did. I think they were building towards the right place.

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Speaker 1: You know, eighty three wins. They kind of fell apart

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Speaker 1: there at the end of the season, but it's kind

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Speaker 1: of about their level that they should have wound up at.

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Speaker 1: It's so really, it wasn't a statement about David Ross

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Speaker 1: other than the fact that we had a chance to

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Speaker 1: get a manager we think is one of the best

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Speaker 1: in the game. And you know, listen, you know this,

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Speaker 1: it's a cold business. You're always looking to upgrade, whether

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Speaker 1: it's a play or a manager or coach, whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: He did have a guy under contract that the owner

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Speaker 1: did come out at the end of the season, said,

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Speaker 1: David Ross's our guy, But you know what, circumstances change,

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Speaker 1: and I understand where they're coming from, not just because

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Speaker 1: it went through a similar thing with you and Rick Bentziia,

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Speaker 1: but I also have the opinion that Craig Counsel is

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Speaker 1: one of the best managers in the game. And if

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Speaker 1: you're the Chicago Cubs, you know, I don't think you

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Speaker 1: just sit there idly by and say we're going to

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Speaker 1: let this guy get on the market and go somewhere else.

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Speaker 1: I think, especially this Joe, to me, the two driving

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Speaker 1: forces for Craig Counsel to get to free agency, because

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Speaker 1: remember he did not sign an extension with the Brewers.

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Speaker 1: They would have been happy to lock him up, you know,

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Speaker 1: even before this year began. But he wanted to get

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Speaker 1: to this point of being a free agent for two reasons.

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Speaker 1: Number one, I think he wanted to reset the market

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Speaker 1: in terms of financial value of owners in this game,

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Speaker 1: and we'll talk about that in a minute. And number two,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's a Midwestern guy. I think in his

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Speaker 1: heart of hearts, he wanted to be true to those

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Speaker 1: Midwestern roots. As a college aged son who plays at Minnesota,

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Speaker 1: another one who plays at Michigan. He has two daughters

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Speaker 1: in high school. He grew up in Wisconsin. That's who

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Speaker 1: Greig Council is. He went to college at Notre Dame.

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Speaker 1: And I know for a fact that the Cubs when

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Speaker 1: they just kind of you think about these things as

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Speaker 1: players and managers, eventually get to the free agent market,

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Speaker 1: you do some questions, you ask around. You know, what

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Speaker 1: does Creig Council want? What was he looking for? And

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Speaker 1: it came back to the Cubs that his dream job

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Speaker 1: has always been the Chicago Cubs. Again, Midwestern guy, big

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Speaker 1: market cubs, all the history, tradition, So he was a

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Speaker 1: little bit on their radar, the fact that he's a

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Speaker 1: Midwestern guy and this fits him. And let's face it,

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Speaker 1: the Cubs are going to reset the manager's market in

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Speaker 1: terms of salary, and the Brewers were never going to

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Speaker 1: do that. So he's worth more to the Cubs than

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Speaker 1: to the Brewers. I mean, that's the way I say it.

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Speaker 1: That's the business of baseball.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, if you have a chance to

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Speaker 2: get would you perceive to be a better shortstopper or

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Speaker 2: relief pitcher or center fielder. Don't you go out and

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Speaker 2: do that? Even though you already have a shortstop or

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Speaker 2: a center fielder or a picture that you kind of like,

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Speaker 2: I mean, not just the way the world works in

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Speaker 2: our game it is. It's cold, it's very cold. It's

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Speaker 2: a cold business. So from that perspective, it's easy to

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Speaker 2: wrap your mind around it and understand it. It's no

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Speaker 2: different really at the end of the day, you're just

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Speaker 2: trying to make your team better. That's your job as

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Speaker 2: the leader of the organization, as a front office person,

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Speaker 2: whether it's president, a GM whatever, ownership, You're always trying

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Speaker 2: to make yourself better. And if your hard of hearts

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Speaker 2: you actually believe this makes you better, how could you

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Speaker 2: walk away from it? Causes there are some really difficult conversations.

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Speaker 2: And then to this point, it's been well received regardless

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Speaker 2: outside of the organization, in the baseball industry in general,

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Speaker 2: it's been well received for a lot of the reasons

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Speaker 2: you've already stated. So they knew from the public perspective

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Speaker 2: they were not going to have a hard time with this,

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Speaker 2: even though David is a big part of that organization,

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Speaker 2: World Series hero and I was just a great guy.

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Speaker 2: So all those things considered, they did what they thought

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Speaker 2: they had to do to make their team better the

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Speaker 2: number two salaries. I still don't believe this is necessarily

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Speaker 2: going to drive up salaries.

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Speaker 3: I don't. If it does, it's going.

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Speaker 2: To be in a very minute way.

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Speaker 3: There might be some uptick here there, but I don't

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Speaker 3: necessarily see this as doing that.

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Speaker 2: I think the way the industry is situated most organizations

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Speaker 2: are run, they're still going to want to go with

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Speaker 2: the inexperienced manager like you've seen, excuse me, with both

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Speaker 2: the Mets and the Guardians right now. They prefer going

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Speaker 2: that route. I don't think it's going to get to

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Speaker 2: the point where they stay feel like they're going to

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Speaker 2: have to pay these guys. I don't think experience is

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Speaker 2: what floats money the boat of many of these front offices.

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Speaker 2: They still prefer a controlled commodity. And again, I do

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Speaker 2: believe that they've gotten to the point where they've gotten

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Speaker 2: salaries to the level that they wanted to be for

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Speaker 2: this particular position, and because of that, I think it's

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Speaker 2: going to remain that way. There's so many guys that

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Speaker 2: want to become major league managers, and there's so many

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Speaker 2: front officers that want major league managers that are very

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Speaker 2: good with the press and that will definitely follow their

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Speaker 2: routines and pretty much not question it. I think this

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Speaker 2: is all part of the fabric right now, and that's

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Speaker 2: why this was the unicorn unique situation with Craig there,

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Speaker 2: So I don't think it's going to really follow suit

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Speaker 2: strongly in other places.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to follow up on that because those

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Speaker 1: are excellent points. But let me finish up on Council

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Speaker 1: on how he wind up with the Cubs, because a

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Speaker 1: lot of people thought he would be signed, sealed, and

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Speaker 1: delivered to the New York Mets. Right David Stearns is

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Speaker 1: hired as the president of Baseball for the New York Mets.

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Speaker 1: Worked with Craig Council for seven years. Steve Cohen. We

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Speaker 1: know he spends money. He's got a star manager out

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Speaker 1: there as a free agent. It made a lot of

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Speaker 1: sense on paper, but Craig Counsel to me, was not

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Speaker 1: going to the New York Mets. I don't think he

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Speaker 1: wanted New York. If that's his only option, it's a

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Speaker 1: different story. But again, Midwestern guy, it's not a great

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Speaker 1: job right now. It's going to pay plumb money, but

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Speaker 1: it's not a plumb job in terms of where the

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Speaker 1: Mets are in terms of a rebuild. They finished twenty

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Speaker 1: nine games behind the Atlanta Braves last year. And you know,

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Speaker 1: he's leaving a Milwaukee team that's been pretty stable, again,

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Speaker 1: not a big market team. Do you want to take

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Speaker 1: on that job with the New York Mets, which has

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Speaker 1: been a manager killer. The last seven managers who had

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Speaker 1: that job have not been rehired anywhere else, and they

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Speaker 1: have not lasted long, by the way, So I don't

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Speaker 1: think it was the perfect fit people thought. Besides, David

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Speaker 1: Stearns did not hire Craig Counsel in Milwaukee, does It's

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Speaker 1: not like they were best buddies. Inherited Craig Council when

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Speaker 1: he was hired as GM at the Brewers in September

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Speaker 1: of twenty fifteen. And there is a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a heavy hand there with David Stearns on analytics in Milwaukee.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure Craig Council loved that. Bottom line is,

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Speaker 1: you know he wasn't going just to New York because

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Speaker 1: Stearns was there, because they would pay Again, this guy

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Speaker 1: his dream job is the Chicago Cubs. So what happened, Well,

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Speaker 1: the Mets actually asked for permission to talk to Stearns

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Speaker 1: before his contract was up October thirty. First. They had

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Speaker 1: a jump start on the process. So people heard about that,

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Speaker 1: they figured, oh, this is going to get done. The

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Speaker 1: Cubs waited. They made their first call on November first.

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Speaker 1: That's the first day that Craig Council was a free agent.

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Speaker 1: They jumped in November first. Now what happens is they

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Speaker 1: get involved with counsel and listen, it's they're gonna pay

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Speaker 1: top dollar, They're gonna pay market value, and then some

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Speaker 1: it's the Midwest. It made a lot of sense. Things

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Speaker 1: really began to fall apart with the New York Mets,

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Speaker 1: by the way, people were writing up until the day

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Speaker 1: this all happened on Monday that you know, it was

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Speaker 1: down to Greig counseling Carlos Mendoza. He was out with

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Speaker 1: the Mets days before because he was deep with the

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Speaker 1: Chicago Cubs, and so a last Sunday, Jed Hoyer, as

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Speaker 1: he did for Rick Renteria back eight years ago, got

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Speaker 1: on a plane and flew to talk David Ross in

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Speaker 1: Tallahassee to tell him what was up because they were

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Speaker 1: so far down the road. And it did get done

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Speaker 1: on Monday again, very difficult call or actually, in this case,

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Speaker 1: conversation for Jed Hoyer to have with David Ross. But

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Speaker 1: it had to be done. You owe him that face

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Speaker 1: to face conversation. They did that, So to me, I

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Speaker 1: give the Cubs a lot of credit by again, and

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Speaker 1: it is difficult. Don't get me wrong. I love David Ross.

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Speaker 1: I think he did a great job with the Cubs

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Speaker 1: this year. But again, you have a team that sought

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Speaker 1: a chance to upgrade, and Craig Counsel was out there

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Speaker 1: and I can't blame them, Joe for going out and

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Speaker 1: getting them, And this is the only way you could

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Speaker 1: get it done. You know me, face to face with

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Speaker 1: David Ross and say listen, we still love you, but

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Speaker 1: we think Craig Counsel is a guy that's a better

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Speaker 1: fit for us.

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Speaker 2: Again, it's just an upgrade based on your ability to

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Speaker 2: decide who's the better fit for us, who's got the

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Speaker 2: greater talent, who do we want to go with? Right,

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Speaker 2: all these different things are in play again, not any

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Speaker 2: different than a player on that team or even a

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Speaker 2: coach to a certain extent. The thing that you'd mentioned

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Speaker 2: there that to me is the most interesting, that the

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Speaker 2: assumption was made that Stearns and Counsel were that close.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm reading. I was following along.

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Speaker 2: With this, and you just mentioned it that Stearns never

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Speaker 2: even hired Counsel in the first place. And again, I

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Speaker 2: just don't know. You probably know better than I do,

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Speaker 2: and others do, of course, that how close was that relationship. Actually,

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Speaker 2: it just sometimes people draw connected dots just based on history,

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Speaker 2: assuming that this was a warm and fuzzy relationship and everybody,

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Speaker 2: I agree with everybody on so many different things, and

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Speaker 2: it is the right thing to do as a slam duck.

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Speaker 2: Everybody had this as a slam dunk, as you suggested.

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Speaker 2: So that's the part to me that I'm curious about.

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Speaker 2: Probably never know, but was there actually that kind of

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Speaker 2: a closeness in this relationship that would have automatically Stearn's

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Speaker 2: goes to the mets, here comes Counsel right behind him.

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Speaker 3: I'm curious about that.

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Speaker 2: And like you said, I mean going to New York

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Speaker 2: from the Midwest, Wow, I mean, listen, I live here

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Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania not far from there, and it is it's

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Speaker 2: quite a leap.

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Speaker 3: It's different.

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Speaker 2: And like you said, the history of the organization itself

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Speaker 2: of course, just like going to the Cubs, or even

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Speaker 2: when with the Rays back in the day, when you

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Speaker 2: go there and you win, kind of special. Man, It's

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Speaker 2: kind of special to get that opportunity to be put

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Speaker 2: in a situation where things have not been good and

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Speaker 2: you get to go there and all of a sudden

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Speaker 2: they become good. That's what you know. For me, you

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Speaker 2: normally look for. That's what I've always found attractive. That's

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Speaker 2: why when I got the race job, I thought, well,

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Speaker 2: this is great to me. It was a really basically

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Speaker 2: an expansion team at that point. It was not an

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Speaker 2: Establis ten years in existence something like that. I saw

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Speaker 2: it as an expansion group. And then going to the Cubs,

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Speaker 2: same thing had been down for so long.

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Speaker 3: Of course, some nice guys in.

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Speaker 2: The minor league system, you know, THEO was there with Jed,

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Speaker 2: had some money to spend. So these are the kind

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Speaker 2: of determinations you have.

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Speaker 3: What do you want? What do you want?

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Speaker 2: Like you're saying, I think the sensibilities of Craig wanted.

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Speaker 2: He wanted to stay there in the Midwest. I get it,

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Speaker 2: and the Notre Dame connection, and of course if in

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Speaker 2: his past he's always wanted to be the manager of

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Speaker 2: the Cubs.

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Speaker 3: To me, that is the slam dunk and that Trump's

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Speaker 3: everything else.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, listen again, I don't know what's in someone's

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Speaker 1: heart of hearts, but going into this I didn't think

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Speaker 1: he was winding up with the New York Mets. For

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Speaker 1: all those reasons, I think people overstated the connection to Stearns.

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Speaker 1: I think putting a Midwestern guy with family in the

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Speaker 1: Midwest in New York in the Mets job didn't make

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Speaker 1: a lot of sense to me. So listen, he needed

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Speaker 1: another option, right, I mean, maybe if it's not the Cubs,

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Speaker 1: does he go back to Milwaukee. Possibly, But it turned

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Speaker 1: out he had, in his own personal view, the best

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Speaker 1: of all options, and that was money and the Cubs job,

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Speaker 1: and he got the two items at the top of

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Speaker 1: his wish list. Speaking of money, Joe, we're going to

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Speaker 1: take a quick break and we're going to dive into

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Speaker 1: the market for managers. Is Craig Council overpaid? Is he underpaid?

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Speaker 1: We'll dive into those questions right after this. So, Joe,

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Speaker 1: one of the first things I started to hear when

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Speaker 1: Craig Council signed five years, forty million dollars with the

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Speaker 1: Cubs eight million dollars a year. Was that he's overpaid

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Speaker 1: because quote unquote he's never won anything. I mean, that

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Speaker 1: is such a simplistic view of the baseball world these days,

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Speaker 1: when we've had nine different World champions in the last

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Speaker 1: ten years, and he's done a great job dragging a

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Speaker 1: Milwaukee team into the postseason virtually every year with some

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Speaker 1: of the market resources that they have or don't have.

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Speaker 1: So let's set that aside. The guy didn't win anything.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about the money itself, because he now has

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Speaker 1: eclipsed Joe Torre as the highest annual salary for a manager.

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Speaker 1: Joe Torre, after he won four championships, was making about

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Speaker 1: seven and a half million dollars with the Yankees. Folks,

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Speaker 1: that was twenty years ago. If you pro rate that

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Speaker 1: money with factory and inflation, that's between thirteen and fourteen

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Speaker 1: million dollars. So we're talking about a guy eating eight millions,

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Speaker 1: not even close to what the value as a manager

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Speaker 1: twenty years ago. And the game really got stagnant there.

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Speaker 1: And you know this well, Joe. I mean, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about the analytics age where managers were devalued, and when

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Speaker 1: you look at not just managers, but coaches as well

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Speaker 1: as the minimum salary for players was going up forty

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Speaker 1: two percent since twenty fifteen, now at seven hundred and

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Speaker 1: twenty thousand dollars a year for a guy who shows

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Speaker 1: up first first day in the big leagues. Managers are

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Speaker 1: grossly underpaid. They still are. So, you know, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: as you said, if Craig Council moves the need for

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Speaker 1: everybody in the industry, maybe he's a special case because

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Speaker 1: he was a free agent, because he is regarded so

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Speaker 1: highly in the game as a not just a guy

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Speaker 1: who runs a game well, but runs a clubhouse well.

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Speaker 1: But it was about time that the money that has

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Speaker 1: flowed into this game, and certainly down to the players

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Speaker 1: all deserved, should wind up with managers. This to me

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Speaker 1: is not an overpayment when you think about inflation and

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Speaker 1: how you know. Listen, last year, according to most reports,

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Speaker 1: half the managers of baseball were making one point seventy

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Speaker 1: five million dollars or less. Folks, there's a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to sneeze at that. But in the

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Speaker 1: world of baseball, when you're talking about players on fringe

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Speaker 1: contracts up and down, maybe the back end of the

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Speaker 1: middle bullpen guy back into your position player roster. That's

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Speaker 1: nothing when you're talking about a guy who is it

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Speaker 1: is the face of your franchise, who represents your franchise

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Speaker 1: more than any other person in your organization when you

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Speaker 1: think about all the time spent in front of cameras

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Speaker 1: and microphones, that's your manager. So I don't know how

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Speaker 1: you feel about the money here, Joe, but I certainly

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Speaker 1: don't think Craig Council is overpaid based on what's happened

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Speaker 1: in the game and based on how contracts managers have

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Speaker 1: been stagnant for so long.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and even just look back into the college ranks

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Speaker 2: for a lot of this too. I mean, you look

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Speaker 2: at college coaches, whether it's baseball and even of course

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Speaker 2: football and basketball, but these guys get paid at a

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Speaker 2: much higher clip, the better ones do.

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Speaker 3: And really, their their.

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Speaker 2: Schedule to me, I mean a lot of it is

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Speaker 2: a recruiting component, satisfying alumni, et cetera. But their actual

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Speaker 2: daily workload I don't think comes close to one hundred

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Speaker 2: and sixty two games schedule, forty preseason games and eventually

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Speaker 2: hopefully another handful in the postseason, like up to like

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Speaker 2: twenty games annually that you're going to be in charge

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Speaker 2: of and the point is to win outside of maybe

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Speaker 2: the spring train, and like you said, both pre and

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Speaker 2: postgame representing your organization, having to talk about everything, including

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Speaker 2: injuries as an example too, and having to tell them

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Speaker 2: up to a certain point, which you can without going

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Speaker 2: over the top with all of your explanation. In a

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Speaker 2: situation like that, there's always it's the situation. Give them

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Speaker 2: an answer, don't give them the answer. That's what Gene

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Speaker 2: Walk told me at one point. But there's all these

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Speaker 2: little when you're doing these press conferences pre and postgame. Man,

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Speaker 2: I tell you, it's incredible how you're able to dissect

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Speaker 2: information as it's going to the back of your brain

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Speaker 2: before it comes out of your mouth, and you have

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Speaker 2: to filter to the point where what could I actually

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Speaker 2: say here? And you're doing this twice a day. For me,

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Speaker 2: the best way to have done that, which I try

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Speaker 2: to do, is just say it. That was my Jack

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Speaker 2: Ryan component. I don't want to get into it deeply

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Speaker 2: with Jack Ryan, the protagonist in the.

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Speaker 3: Tom Clancy novels.

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Speaker 2: Jack Ryan was the guy that always told the president

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Speaker 2: straight up and the mister President, don't spin it. Just

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Speaker 2: tell him not only was your friend and he was

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Speaker 2: your best friend when he's trying to disarm that situation

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Speaker 2: and clear and present danger in the Caribbean. So I

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Speaker 2: think that's the best way to deal with it. But

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Speaker 2: again back to the Sari issue ONUNS sixty two times

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Speaker 2: too press conferences. That's minimum. That's minimum. That's not even

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Speaker 2: counting like the separate moments entities with in game conversations,

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Speaker 2: pregame special rider will come by, calm, this will come

388
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Speaker 2: by for another hit on something, the zoomers that you've done,

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Speaker 2: all the different things that you do again representing your organization.

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Speaker 3: I don't think.

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Speaker 2: I don't believe there's another job out there that has

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Speaker 2: to represent your entire group and actually your fan base

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Speaker 2: quite frankly, as much and as often as a major

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Speaker 2: league manager does.

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Speaker 3: I don't see it. I just don't see it.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean the eight when you when you

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Speaker 2: look at everything that a major league manager does beyond

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Speaker 2: running a clubhouse, beyond running the game, beyond having to

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Speaker 2: ameliorate so many different groups before the game, after the game,

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Speaker 2: whether it's an analytical department where it's a GM, whether

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Speaker 2: it's somebody that thinks they should be playing more than

402
00:20:09,718 --> 00:20:11,958
Speaker 2: they have been, and they come into bitch about it

403
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Speaker 2: in your in your office.

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Speaker 3: All these things are happening every day.

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Speaker 2: So if you pile it all up, if you add

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Speaker 2: it all up and look at other comps with this situation,

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Speaker 2: absolutely eight billion is not out of the question.

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Speaker 1: Oh Joe, you left out those pesky national TV guys

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Speaker 1: who come in and have to have their exclusive windows

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Speaker 1: with the manager.

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Speaker 3: I was including that somehow there. I didn't want to.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah. And that brings me the very interesting comments

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Speaker 1: from Dusty Baker that we're on this thread.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Dusty was on a podcast with Charles Barkley Ernie Johnson,

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Speaker 1: and he mentioned that he could keep doing this job

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Speaker 1: for another four or five years if he could show

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Speaker 1: up before the game, run the game, and then go

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Speaker 1: home and not deal with the pregame in the post game.

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Speaker 1: As he put it, you're dealing with thirty year olds

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Speaker 1: and bloggers and tweeters who are all over And according

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Speaker 1: to Dusty Baker, that influenced his decision to say I'm done.

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Speaker 1: I'm out, that's it. And he said, you just get

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Speaker 1: tired of this. I thought it was a very honest,

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Speaker 1: revealing comment. I know a lot of people sit there

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Speaker 1: and will say, you know what, that's your job. Just

427
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Speaker 1: put up with it, just ignore it, et cetera. But

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Speaker 1: if you're the major league manager and this is happening

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Speaker 1: all the time, and especially when you have a resume

430
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Speaker 1: like Dusty Baker, I can understand how someone is sensitive

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Speaker 1: to that.

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Speaker 3: Now.

433
00:21:36,038 --> 00:21:37,878
Speaker 1: He took a lot of heat this year for a

434
00:21:37,918 --> 00:21:40,518
Speaker 1: lot of things, as he always does. For some reason,

435
00:21:41,238 --> 00:21:43,518
Speaker 1: for instance, people thought he should be playing yin Air

436
00:21:43,558 --> 00:21:46,158
Speaker 1: Diaz behind the plate because you know, Diez got a

437
00:21:46,238 --> 00:21:48,438
Speaker 1: nice bat, hit a bunch of home runs, but the

438
00:21:48,478 --> 00:21:52,158
Speaker 1: pitchers all loved throwing the Martine Maldonado and Dusty Baker

439
00:21:52,238 --> 00:21:54,758
Speaker 1: knew that Diaz wasn't quite ready to be the everyday

440
00:21:54,798 --> 00:21:59,158
Speaker 1: catcher because running the game is super important. Hitting twenty

441
00:21:59,158 --> 00:22:01,638
Speaker 1: two home runs is nice, but he knows Mountonado was

442
00:22:01,638 --> 00:22:03,318
Speaker 1: an edge behind a plate working with his pictures. He

443
00:22:03,358 --> 00:22:06,998
Speaker 1: also got some grief for not playing Chas McCormick literally

444
00:22:07,078 --> 00:22:09,718
Speaker 1: every day, and there were stories about how that's because

445
00:22:09,758 --> 00:22:12,318
Speaker 1: Chas McCormick had put on weight and that's why Dusty

446
00:22:12,398 --> 00:22:15,198
Speaker 1: wasn't playing him because he didn't like the player. I mean,

447
00:22:15,238 --> 00:22:17,718
Speaker 1: that's just ridiculous that a manager's not going to play

448
00:22:17,718 --> 00:22:20,918
Speaker 1: a guy because he doesn't like him. You know, the

449
00:22:20,958 --> 00:22:24,238
Speaker 1: manager's job is to win baseball games. You're not going

450
00:22:24,278 --> 00:22:27,358
Speaker 1: to spite yourself by sitting a bat you think can

451
00:22:27,398 --> 00:22:29,678
Speaker 1: help you win. But anyway, those are sort of the

452
00:22:29,678 --> 00:22:31,598
Speaker 1: criticisms he dealt with, and I thought that was an

453
00:22:31,638 --> 00:22:34,678
Speaker 1: interesting window for a guy who's had the cachet resume

454
00:22:34,838 --> 00:22:37,038
Speaker 1: respect of Dusty Baker to say, you know what, I

455
00:22:37,078 --> 00:22:39,598
Speaker 1: could have kept doing this job, but man, the bloggers

456
00:22:39,638 --> 00:22:41,038
Speaker 1: and tweeters just wore me out.

457
00:22:41,238 --> 00:22:41,358
Speaker 3: Well.

458
00:22:41,398 --> 00:22:43,158
Speaker 2: I got to understand that too, and that's why it's

459
00:22:43,198 --> 00:22:46,038
Speaker 2: really important to not read that stuff if you possibly can.

460
00:22:46,118 --> 00:22:47,958
Speaker 2: I know it always comes back to you somehow, But

461
00:22:48,878 --> 00:22:51,118
Speaker 2: during the season I really try to avoid any kind

462
00:22:51,118 --> 00:22:53,998
Speaker 2: of Twitter feeds and blogging. You don't read comments, you

463
00:22:53,998 --> 00:22:57,158
Speaker 2: don't read any of that stuff unless unless, and I

464
00:22:57,238 --> 00:22:59,038
Speaker 2: was able to do this, I think more towards end,

465
00:22:59,198 --> 00:23:01,958
Speaker 2: you could put it in compartmentalize it, Like I understand,

466
00:23:02,318 --> 00:23:05,198
Speaker 2: there's an entertainment component of this all, whereas a lot

467
00:23:05,198 --> 00:23:08,838
Speaker 2: of this stuff sells the game, whether it's good or

468
00:23:08,878 --> 00:23:11,758
Speaker 2: bad from your perspective, because you know what you do,

469
00:23:11,798 --> 00:23:13,878
Speaker 2: your players know what you do, your front office should

470
00:23:13,918 --> 00:23:16,758
Speaker 2: know what you do, et cetera. But if there's an

471
00:23:16,838 --> 00:23:18,878
Speaker 2: entertainment buyer to this also, and a lot of these

472
00:23:18,878 --> 00:23:21,238
Speaker 2: different media outlets are really important to put people in

473
00:23:21,278 --> 00:23:24,278
Speaker 2: the stands and maybe create controversy. It's no different than

474
00:23:24,878 --> 00:23:26,958
Speaker 2: you've heard me talk about at the bar room as

475
00:23:26,998 --> 00:23:29,398
Speaker 2: a kid growing up. I sit at bell Hops one

476
00:23:29,438 --> 00:23:31,878
Speaker 2: of the stools, and I sit among all these different

477
00:23:32,478 --> 00:23:35,758
Speaker 2: grownups and may be arguing whether the Orioles or the Yankees,

478
00:23:35,878 --> 00:23:37,798
Speaker 2: or the Phillies or the Pirates, all the teams in

479
00:23:37,838 --> 00:23:41,118
Speaker 2: my area will be a great argument discussion. And that

480
00:23:41,318 --> 00:23:47,038
Speaker 2: was the latter day Twitter x, Facebook, Instagram. It was

481
00:23:47,078 --> 00:23:49,998
Speaker 2: on a barstool. You know, it was much more controlled

482
00:23:50,038 --> 00:23:53,398
Speaker 2: obviously in that regard, and not everybody heard everybody's commentary

483
00:23:53,398 --> 00:23:56,958
Speaker 2: like we do now. So it's about compartmentalizing and trying

484
00:23:56,998 --> 00:24:00,198
Speaker 2: to understand. I think that it is entertainment. There's times

485
00:24:00,198 --> 00:24:03,278
Speaker 2: when it gets personal that you know, it's kind of

486
00:24:03,278 --> 00:24:06,038
Speaker 2: more difficult. Sometimes if it comes back to you and

487
00:24:06,038 --> 00:24:08,518
Speaker 2: it's a kind of a personal attack, that could be

488
00:24:08,638 --> 00:24:12,838
Speaker 2: kind of disconcerting and you don't like that at all.

489
00:24:13,278 --> 00:24:16,998
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, if you meaning

490
00:24:17,038 --> 00:24:19,798
Speaker 2: the manager who, remember, this is the person that's the

491
00:24:19,798 --> 00:24:24,958
Speaker 2: subject of these moments. If you get the support, quite frankly,

492
00:24:24,998 --> 00:24:27,398
Speaker 2: from the front office, and when there's anything like really

493
00:24:28,118 --> 00:24:31,518
Speaker 2: vitriolic written or stated or stuff that's just not true,

494
00:24:31,878 --> 00:24:34,398
Speaker 2: if you get like somebody from above that just hey, listen,

495
00:24:34,518 --> 00:24:36,758
Speaker 2: this is not we don't believe this, this is wrong.

496
00:24:37,678 --> 00:24:40,838
Speaker 2: Actually attack it in the opposite direction. I think that's

497
00:24:40,878 --> 00:24:43,838
Speaker 2: all any kind of manager would really want and respect,

498
00:24:44,278 --> 00:24:47,198
Speaker 2: is that you're supported. You're supported from the top, and

499
00:24:47,238 --> 00:24:50,638
Speaker 2: that's really important. I think when there's radio silence, people

500
00:24:50,678 --> 00:24:53,598
Speaker 2: go crickets in a situation where something may be written

501
00:24:53,718 --> 00:24:57,398
Speaker 2: about one particular game, and normally it's a bullpen decision

502
00:24:57,438 --> 00:25:00,638
Speaker 2: that's bashed and nobody comes out and says, well, like,

503
00:25:00,638 --> 00:25:03,878
Speaker 2: for instance, what happened in Toronto, No listen, Schneider, Johnny

504
00:25:04,118 --> 00:25:06,198
Speaker 2: that because we had talked about that before the game

505
00:25:06,478 --> 00:25:08,438
Speaker 2: and we all decided this was the right thing to do.

506
00:25:08,478 --> 00:25:10,878
Speaker 2: Just say it. Just go Jack Ryan on him, just

507
00:25:10,918 --> 00:25:13,838
Speaker 2: say it. Those are the kind of things in today's game,

508
00:25:14,318 --> 00:25:17,878
Speaker 2: with the speed of information and the fact that I've

509
00:25:17,918 --> 00:25:20,478
Speaker 2: been told this most if you look at most press boxes,

510
00:25:20,518 --> 00:25:22,158
Speaker 2: most of the writers are set up there not looking

511
00:25:22,198 --> 00:25:25,958
Speaker 2: at the game, but looking at commentary on their different

512
00:25:26,158 --> 00:25:28,878
Speaker 2: media platforms in regards to writing their story. These are

513
00:25:28,878 --> 00:25:30,798
Speaker 2: the kind of things that you have to how do

514
00:25:30,838 --> 00:25:33,838
Speaker 2: you countertack that? Like I said, for me, A really

515
00:25:33,918 --> 00:25:36,158
Speaker 2: understand this is about entertainment. We're trying to sell the

516
00:25:36,158 --> 00:25:38,438
Speaker 2: game being if it's a personal attack, then that gets

517
00:25:38,438 --> 00:25:41,078
Speaker 2: a little bit too far. Just that people that you

518
00:25:41,198 --> 00:25:44,038
Speaker 2: work for would somehow try to intervene and set the

519
00:25:44,078 --> 00:25:46,958
Speaker 2: record straight, because when you try to do it yourself,

520
00:25:46,998 --> 00:25:50,078
Speaker 2: when you try to defend yourself, it always sounds like

521
00:25:50,118 --> 00:25:52,678
Speaker 2: an excuse. It's always sounds like you're making up an excuse.

522
00:25:52,718 --> 00:25:54,998
Speaker 2: So I always try to refrain from doing that for

523
00:25:55,078 --> 00:25:56,118
Speaker 2: that exact reason.

524
00:25:56,598 --> 00:25:58,478
Speaker 1: Yeah, it reminds me of Joe Torri when he took

525
00:25:58,518 --> 00:26:00,078
Speaker 1: the job with the Yankees. I think one of the

526
00:26:00,118 --> 00:26:02,198
Speaker 1: best things he did right away is he stopped reading

527
00:26:02,238 --> 00:26:04,998
Speaker 1: the newspapers. Back then, it was the newspapers that really

528
00:26:05,118 --> 00:26:10,438
Speaker 1: drove the narrative, the talking points. Obviously no social media

529
00:26:10,518 --> 00:26:13,878
Speaker 1: back then, so everything's amplified more now. I get that,

530
00:26:14,118 --> 00:26:18,398
Speaker 1: But I would definitely wholeheartedly agree with you Joe on

531
00:26:19,358 --> 00:26:22,198
Speaker 1: you know, the best thing is don't pay attention, don't

532
00:26:22,198 --> 00:26:24,838
Speaker 1: dive into it at all. But you're right, these things

533
00:26:24,878 --> 00:26:27,838
Speaker 1: do get back to you, and it's best to compartmentalize

534
00:26:27,838 --> 00:26:31,038
Speaker 1: them and understand that you know a heck of a

535
00:26:31,038 --> 00:26:33,638
Speaker 1: lot more than these people are putting their opinions out there.

536
00:26:33,638 --> 00:26:36,558
Speaker 1: They may be louder, but you have to have confidence

537
00:26:36,998 --> 00:26:40,878
Speaker 1: in what you are doing. If you don't, man, it's

538
00:26:40,878 --> 00:26:42,918
Speaker 1: going to wear on you. I want to get back

539
00:26:42,918 --> 00:26:46,958
Speaker 1: to something you said, Joe about again Counsel and this

540
00:26:47,118 --> 00:26:50,478
Speaker 1: being maybe something that changes the landscape for managers. And

541
00:26:50,478 --> 00:26:52,358
Speaker 1: you talked about how a lot of these guys who

542
00:26:52,398 --> 00:26:56,358
Speaker 1: are hiring managers are comfortable with the younger managers and

543
00:26:56,598 --> 00:26:58,238
Speaker 1: obviously you're going to be paid less if it's your

544
00:26:58,238 --> 00:27:02,158
Speaker 1: first job. I get that. And I think this hiring

545
00:27:02,238 --> 00:27:04,438
Speaker 1: here in New York with the Mets says something about

546
00:27:04,518 --> 00:27:08,238
Speaker 1: David Stearns. You know he did reach out for Craig Counsel.

547
00:27:08,438 --> 00:27:10,638
Speaker 1: I think he almost had to because of the connection,

548
00:27:10,878 --> 00:27:13,758
Speaker 1: because of Steve Cohen. I get that. But then he

549
00:27:13,798 --> 00:27:16,958
Speaker 1: moved off Craig Council all the way down to Carlos Mendoza.

550
00:27:17,078 --> 00:27:18,718
Speaker 1: And let me start by saying it's not a knock

551
00:27:18,758 --> 00:27:21,758
Speaker 1: on Carlos Mendoza. Everything I've heard, everything I've had been

552
00:27:21,798 --> 00:27:24,278
Speaker 1: around him as a bench coach with the Yankees. Really

553
00:27:24,278 --> 00:27:26,878
Speaker 1: good dude. He could very well do a very good

554
00:27:26,958 --> 00:27:30,678
Speaker 1: job with New York. But that's a very different signal

555
00:27:30,878 --> 00:27:33,918
Speaker 1: from David Stearns about where he wants to go by

556
00:27:33,958 --> 00:27:36,238
Speaker 1: hiring a guy who's never managed above a ball now,

557
00:27:36,278 --> 00:27:38,478
Speaker 1: listen to, everybody deserves a chance. I mean, if we

558
00:27:38,598 --> 00:27:40,798
Speaker 1: never hired guys for their first jobs, it would just

559
00:27:40,838 --> 00:27:44,038
Speaker 1: be completely recycling people. But what I'm saying is with

560
00:27:44,118 --> 00:27:46,558
Speaker 1: the Mets job here now, to me, it's a signal

561
00:27:46,598 --> 00:27:51,398
Speaker 1: that Stearns wants someone that he's going to have control over.

562
00:27:51,598 --> 00:27:53,598
Speaker 1: It's that simple. If you're a show you know this.

563
00:27:53,718 --> 00:27:56,398
Speaker 1: If you're a first year manager, yeah, I mean you

564
00:27:56,478 --> 00:28:00,398
Speaker 1: don't have the established platform to really fight back much

565
00:28:00,438 --> 00:28:04,198
Speaker 1: if that's the right phrase against the front office, especially

566
00:28:04,238 --> 00:28:07,118
Speaker 1: in today's world. So he's going to have to grow

567
00:28:07,158 --> 00:28:10,078
Speaker 1: into that job, you know, grow his own cachet where

568
00:28:10,118 --> 00:28:11,478
Speaker 1: he can say, you know what, this is what I

569
00:28:11,478 --> 00:28:14,398
Speaker 1: want to do. I don't see that starting out. That's

570
00:28:14,438 --> 00:28:17,518
Speaker 1: a very different type of manager than Craig Counsel. So

571
00:28:17,558 --> 00:28:20,998
Speaker 1: he went in a very different direction with Carlos Mendoza.

572
00:28:21,118 --> 00:28:24,318
Speaker 1: And think about this too, I think the game's starting

573
00:28:24,358 --> 00:28:28,638
Speaker 1: to swing back where experience is starting to be valued more.

574
00:28:28,918 --> 00:28:31,398
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you the ages of the last

575
00:28:31,478 --> 00:28:36,318
Speaker 1: six managers to manage in the World Series fifty eight,

576
00:28:37,078 --> 00:28:44,998
Speaker 1: fifty nine, sixty five, sixty eight, seventy two, seventy three.

577
00:28:45,118 --> 00:28:47,358
Speaker 1: There are no forty four year olds in there, folks.

578
00:28:47,638 --> 00:28:49,998
Speaker 1: If you want to win a World championship, to me,

579
00:28:50,798 --> 00:28:54,798
Speaker 1: I like having experience. So that's my take on it, Joe,

580
00:28:54,798 --> 00:28:57,158
Speaker 1: And again, everybody deserves a first job, but if you're

581
00:28:57,198 --> 00:29:00,198
Speaker 1: in a market you think you're ready to win something,

582
00:29:00,798 --> 00:29:02,358
Speaker 1: it's tough to do it with a guy who's on

583
00:29:02,438 --> 00:29:04,318
Speaker 1: his first job. Never above a ball.

584
00:29:04,838 --> 00:29:07,798
Speaker 2: As I ascended through the ranks, minor league ranks, into

585
00:29:07,798 --> 00:29:09,998
Speaker 2: the big league ranks as a coach, et cetera, the

586
00:29:10,038 --> 00:29:11,478
Speaker 2: one thing I always kept in the back of my

587
00:29:11,518 --> 00:29:13,878
Speaker 2: mind is I never wanted anything before it was my

588
00:29:13,958 --> 00:29:17,318
Speaker 2: time to have it. Meaning that I I to be

589
00:29:17,358 --> 00:29:21,038
Speaker 2: a major league manager for me was so sacred and

590
00:29:21,198 --> 00:29:23,758
Speaker 2: I felt like I really truly had to be prepared.

591
00:29:23,798 --> 00:29:24,118
Speaker 3: I did.

592
00:29:24,198 --> 00:29:26,438
Speaker 2: I definitely wasn't prepared as a forty year old. I

593
00:29:26,518 --> 00:29:28,958
Speaker 2: never played in the big leagues as a forty year old.

594
00:29:28,998 --> 00:29:31,518
Speaker 2: I was just getting there as a major league coach

595
00:29:31,758 --> 00:29:34,758
Speaker 2: as a or was I a bullpen coach and I

596
00:29:34,758 --> 00:29:36,478
Speaker 2: was a first base coach of bench coach, et cetera.

597
00:29:36,958 --> 00:29:38,918
Speaker 2: But as I moved through this whole process and they

598
00:29:38,958 --> 00:29:42,518
Speaker 2: did interviews, I did interviews with the Angels with Stony,

599
00:29:42,598 --> 00:29:46,038
Speaker 2: when Sosh got it, I interviewed, I think interviewed. Yeah,

600
00:29:46,078 --> 00:29:48,518
Speaker 2: I interviewed when Terry Calls got it with Billy Vivesi too.

601
00:29:48,958 --> 00:29:51,518
Speaker 2: Then I interviewed with the Red Sox, an interviewed with

602
00:29:51,558 --> 00:29:54,518
Speaker 2: the Diamondbacks, and interviewed with Seattle. Again with Billy Vivasi

603
00:29:54,598 --> 00:29:57,038
Speaker 2: and Seattle. But I always had this concern and am

604
00:29:57,038 --> 00:29:59,358
Speaker 2: I ready for this? I mean, and is it my

605
00:29:59,518 --> 00:30:02,558
Speaker 2: time to do this? Do I feel like complete? Do

606
00:30:02,598 --> 00:30:05,798
Speaker 2: I feel complete in my abilities to handle a myriad

607
00:30:05,838 --> 00:30:08,718
Speaker 2: of situations, whether it's you know, running the game, whether

608
00:30:08,758 --> 00:30:13,918
Speaker 2: it's having a conversation, whether it's enduring long losing streaks,

609
00:30:15,238 --> 00:30:18,918
Speaker 2: being smashed like you said, possibly publicly, am I ready

610
00:30:18,958 --> 00:30:21,518
Speaker 2: for this? And so I always thought I never wanted

611
00:30:21,598 --> 00:30:23,678
Speaker 2: anything before. Was my time to have something? And I

612
00:30:23,718 --> 00:30:26,878
Speaker 2: think that's why possibly I was successful even I was

613
00:30:26,878 --> 00:30:29,998
Speaker 2: like fifty one fifty two when I got my first

614
00:30:29,998 --> 00:30:31,718
Speaker 2: major league job, because I had done everything and I

615
00:30:31,798 --> 00:30:34,998
Speaker 2: was ready for that moment based on the life baseball,

616
00:30:34,998 --> 00:30:38,078
Speaker 2: life's experience that I had to that point. The guys

617
00:30:38,118 --> 00:30:41,718
Speaker 2: today that are taking a job, it's to me like, wow, Okay,

618
00:30:41,998 --> 00:30:44,318
Speaker 2: do you really believe you're ready to do this? And

619
00:30:44,358 --> 00:30:46,758
Speaker 2: if they do, God bless them, because I didn't feel

620
00:30:46,758 --> 00:30:49,358
Speaker 2: like I was ready at that juncture, with the limited

621
00:30:49,398 --> 00:30:52,118
Speaker 2: experience and that particular age and the lack of wisdom

622
00:30:52,358 --> 00:30:54,558
Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it. I just did not

623
00:30:55,038 --> 00:30:58,438
Speaker 2: as a self evaluator, I did not want to put

624
00:30:58,438 --> 00:31:02,678
Speaker 2: myself out there without having all this cachet of a background,

625
00:31:04,158 --> 00:31:06,958
Speaker 2: uh information, history, whatever it takes in order to be

626
00:31:06,998 --> 00:31:08,158
Speaker 2: successful in this position.

627
00:31:08,598 --> 00:31:10,638
Speaker 3: So that that part always amazes.

628
00:31:10,278 --> 00:31:12,878
Speaker 2: Me too when like like like voter and I love

629
00:31:12,918 --> 00:31:15,718
Speaker 2: Stephen vote, Steve would vote. I hope makes a great manager.

630
00:31:16,718 --> 00:31:18,438
Speaker 2: We had a great time together. He does a great

631
00:31:18,438 --> 00:31:20,838
Speaker 2: impression to me. He used to do in spring training.

632
00:31:20,878 --> 00:31:22,838
Speaker 2: I used to laugh my butt off, man, But the

633
00:31:22,918 --> 00:31:25,598
Speaker 2: guy's never done it before. So these kind of leaps

634
00:31:25,638 --> 00:31:28,718
Speaker 2: of faith, where where do you where do you believe

635
00:31:28,758 --> 00:31:31,478
Speaker 2: that you are able to handle a job like this

636
00:31:31,558 --> 00:31:33,238
Speaker 2: if you've never done it before. So because to me,

637
00:31:33,358 --> 00:31:38,038
Speaker 2: kind of minimizes the importance of what a major league

638
00:31:38,078 --> 00:31:40,878
Speaker 2: manager does by the fact that you never managed anywhere.

639
00:31:41,758 --> 00:31:43,918
Speaker 2: Booty hadn't done that, I don't think, and David actually.

640
00:31:43,638 --> 00:31:44,318
Speaker 3: Had not done that.

641
00:31:44,358 --> 00:31:47,838
Speaker 2: And now you know, voters stepping into that same realm.

642
00:31:48,158 --> 00:31:49,078
Speaker 3: Why is that?

643
00:31:49,758 --> 00:31:54,518
Speaker 2: Why did people consider that okay? Whereas I know for years, man,

644
00:31:54,598 --> 00:31:57,798
Speaker 2: it wasn't okay. And I needed to suffer a little

645
00:31:57,798 --> 00:31:59,398
Speaker 2: bit more. I needed to learn a little bit more.

646
00:31:59,838 --> 00:32:01,998
Speaker 2: I needed to make more mistakes. I needed to understand

647
00:32:02,038 --> 00:32:04,318
Speaker 2: what I thought better. I needed to be able to

648
00:32:04,318 --> 00:32:07,118
Speaker 2: handle situations in a way that I felt comfortable with

649
00:32:07,118 --> 00:32:09,158
Speaker 2: and I felt I was doing the right thing. So

650
00:32:09,678 --> 00:32:11,798
Speaker 2: all these things are factors to me when I see

651
00:32:11,798 --> 00:32:15,358
Speaker 2: all these kind of hirings. I never wanted to have

652
00:32:15,398 --> 00:32:17,918
Speaker 2: anything before. Was my time to have it based on

653
00:32:18,678 --> 00:32:20,358
Speaker 2: having earned it and experience.

654
00:32:20,758 --> 00:32:23,238
Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, we all know what's happened where the balance

655
00:32:23,278 --> 00:32:25,918
Speaker 1: of power in baseball came. It's really shifted from the

656
00:32:25,998 --> 00:32:29,558
Speaker 1: dugout to the front office in terms of not just

657
00:32:29,638 --> 00:32:33,798
Speaker 1: player evaluation and acquisition, but how games are played and won.

658
00:32:34,078 --> 00:32:38,278
Speaker 1: And lost and decision making. We get that. So if

659
00:32:38,278 --> 00:32:41,838
Speaker 1: you're a general manager of this new generation, you're going

660
00:32:41,878 --> 00:32:45,558
Speaker 1: to hire someone who is, let's face it, not going

661
00:32:45,598 --> 00:32:48,158
Speaker 1: to challenge you. If you hire Bruce Bochi to be

662
00:32:48,198 --> 00:32:52,118
Speaker 1: the manager, as Chris Young did, you're going to respect

663
00:32:52,158 --> 00:32:56,878
Speaker 1: his decision and his ability to challenge your thinking. If

664
00:32:56,918 --> 00:32:59,918
Speaker 1: you hire a first year manager who's never managed above

665
00:32:59,958 --> 00:33:04,718
Speaker 1: class A ball, that gentleman is not going to challenge

666
00:33:04,718 --> 00:33:09,278
Speaker 1: you when it comes to process and systems. He may disagree,

667
00:33:09,638 --> 00:33:12,438
Speaker 1: but he's not gonna go rogue and say, no, we're

668
00:33:12,438 --> 00:33:14,478
Speaker 1: not doing that. I'm gonna leave my starter in third

669
00:33:14,478 --> 00:33:16,558
Speaker 1: time around the lineup, or I'm gonna use this guy

670
00:33:16,598 --> 00:33:19,318
Speaker 1: a third day. That's not happening. So Joe to me,

671
00:33:19,438 --> 00:33:21,998
Speaker 1: that's the safe route for these guys who are running

672
00:33:21,998 --> 00:33:27,278
Speaker 1: teams is calling them yes, man is too far, but

673
00:33:28,278 --> 00:33:31,438
Speaker 1: who are basically new to that position, who are not

674
00:33:31,478 --> 00:33:34,158
Speaker 1: comfortable yet to say to a GM or president of

675
00:33:34,198 --> 00:33:37,078
Speaker 1: baseball ops, no, this is the way I'm doing it.

676
00:33:37,278 --> 00:33:40,478
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's totally far and from the past. I mean,

677
00:33:40,958 --> 00:33:43,078
Speaker 2: we've talked about this. There was a time literally that

678
00:33:43,158 --> 00:33:46,518
Speaker 2: gms were never seen in a clubhouse. I don't want

679
00:33:46,518 --> 00:33:48,398
Speaker 2: to use the word afraid, but they were intimidated, some

680
00:33:48,438 --> 00:33:51,678
Speaker 2: of them by coming into a clubhouse. The manager normally

681
00:33:51,838 --> 00:33:55,958
Speaker 2: was the manager normally did, and I also thought they

682
00:33:55,958 --> 00:33:57,838
Speaker 2: had too much power at one point, I did the

683
00:33:57,878 --> 00:34:01,718
Speaker 2: manager kind of ran everything. He was the facto GM

684
00:34:02,318 --> 00:34:04,718
Speaker 2: or president, whatever you wanted to call it, because he

685
00:34:04,838 --> 00:34:08,838
Speaker 2: set the tone for actually player player evaluation and player acquisition.

686
00:34:08,918 --> 00:34:11,398
Speaker 2: A lot of time they would go to the gym

687
00:34:11,398 --> 00:34:13,918
Speaker 2: and say, listen, we need we need this position, and

688
00:34:13,958 --> 00:34:14,758
Speaker 2: we like this guy.

689
00:34:14,798 --> 00:34:15,798
Speaker 3: We want you to go get so.

690
00:34:15,878 --> 00:34:18,478
Speaker 2: And so I heard the conversations and it actually did occur.

691
00:34:18,878 --> 00:34:21,078
Speaker 2: So that's how it used to be back in the Y,

692
00:34:21,078 --> 00:34:22,878
Speaker 2: and I'm saying that wasn't right. I even knew that

693
00:34:22,918 --> 00:34:25,358
Speaker 2: as a young coach manager, I knew that wasn't the

694
00:34:25,398 --> 00:34:27,518
Speaker 2: right way to do because I knew that all we

695
00:34:27,598 --> 00:34:30,318
Speaker 2: knew was how this player looked in spring training. We

696
00:34:30,358 --> 00:34:32,438
Speaker 2: did not know how we looked during the season, and

697
00:34:32,478 --> 00:34:34,638
Speaker 2: we definitely didn't know what he looked like against other

698
00:34:34,678 --> 00:34:36,718
Speaker 2: teams except for us. So I thought there was a

699
00:34:36,718 --> 00:34:41,918
Speaker 2: lot of faulty intel going on with that kind.

700
00:34:41,718 --> 00:34:43,238
Speaker 3: Of acquisitional process.

701
00:34:43,718 --> 00:34:46,318
Speaker 2: So, yeah, there was a time that the manager had

702
00:34:46,358 --> 00:34:48,438
Speaker 2: too much jack, and then it's gone to the point

703
00:34:48,438 --> 00:34:50,438
Speaker 2: where it's exactly the opposite right now.

704
00:34:50,758 --> 00:34:51,478
Speaker 3: But again, I.

705
00:34:53,278 --> 00:34:58,878
Speaker 2: For me, it's an earned, earned position, and you're supposed

706
00:34:58,918 --> 00:35:01,918
Speaker 2: to go from first grade through twelfth and then you

707
00:35:01,958 --> 00:35:03,798
Speaker 2: go for your undergraduate degree, then you go for your

708
00:35:04,118 --> 00:35:07,038
Speaker 2: you degree. They become a doctorate at some point, and that,

709
00:35:07,038 --> 00:35:09,318
Speaker 2: to me is what a major league manager should be.

710
00:35:09,598 --> 00:35:13,718
Speaker 2: Is like he's got this complete, full background. And I'm

711
00:35:13,718 --> 00:35:15,558
Speaker 2: here to tell you. I mean, I'm not breaking on myself,

712
00:35:15,558 --> 00:35:18,078
Speaker 2: but I started out and the most important thing I

713
00:35:18,078 --> 00:35:21,518
Speaker 2: ever did, I think as a that eventually helped me

714
00:35:21,518 --> 00:35:23,878
Speaker 2: become a major league manager. With a scout, as a

715
00:35:23,918 --> 00:35:27,918
Speaker 2: full time scout, that's never even done anymore. Go out,

716
00:35:27,958 --> 00:35:29,878
Speaker 2: look at a young player and see what he looks

717
00:35:29,878 --> 00:35:32,358
Speaker 2: like before he becomes so and so and so and so,

718
00:35:32,438 --> 00:35:34,078
Speaker 2: when he becomes a household name. What do you look

719
00:35:34,158 --> 00:35:36,558
Speaker 2: like before he became a household name. These are the

720
00:35:36,598 --> 00:35:39,878
Speaker 2: kind of things that aren't asked of these these people anymore.

721
00:35:40,158 --> 00:35:43,398
Speaker 2: And that to me was so viable because I could speak.

722
00:35:43,638 --> 00:35:45,638
Speaker 2: When I look at a guy, I could break him

723
00:35:45,678 --> 00:35:47,798
Speaker 2: down as a player. I break them down, just think

724
00:35:47,798 --> 00:35:51,278
Speaker 2: he did with Timmy Salmon I did with Corey Snyder,

725
00:35:52,998 --> 00:35:55,638
Speaker 2: while these Keith, Joinner, all these different dudes, you break

726
00:35:55,718 --> 00:35:58,198
Speaker 2: them down, That to me was the part of my

727
00:35:58,718 --> 00:36:01,318
Speaker 2: foundation that I consider the most valuable.

728
00:36:01,478 --> 00:36:03,238
Speaker 3: And nobody ever talks about that anymore.

729
00:36:03,518 --> 00:36:07,838
Speaker 1: So what happens to David Ross, what happens to Milwaukee,

730
00:36:08,078 --> 00:36:12,878
Speaker 1: San Diego, the Angels. We'll dive into what's next in

731
00:36:12,918 --> 00:36:26,478
Speaker 1: the manager's business right after this. All right, Joe, you

732
00:36:26,558 --> 00:36:29,158
Speaker 1: mentioned Steven Vote. I think he's going to be a

733
00:36:29,158 --> 00:36:31,678
Speaker 1: good manager. Is he going to be great right away?

734
00:36:31,798 --> 00:36:35,198
Speaker 1: I mean, who knows. But I like a lot of

735
00:36:35,198 --> 00:36:37,638
Speaker 1: the qualities he has shown as a player and a coach.

736
00:36:37,678 --> 00:36:40,358
Speaker 1: He's very relatable, He's got a great sense of humor,

737
00:36:41,238 --> 00:36:44,918
Speaker 1: connects with people. As a former catcher, I think that's

738
00:36:44,958 --> 00:36:47,478
Speaker 1: important because he understands the pitching side of the game

739
00:36:47,518 --> 00:36:50,078
Speaker 1: as well as the run production side of the game.

740
00:36:50,718 --> 00:36:52,518
Speaker 1: To me, he's got all the qualities to be a

741
00:36:52,558 --> 00:36:55,598
Speaker 1: really good major league manager. How long that takes, we'll

742
00:36:55,638 --> 00:36:58,838
Speaker 1: see that. I did like that higher as far as

743
00:36:58,878 --> 00:37:01,998
Speaker 1: the Brewers go, here's what I was told that they

744
00:37:01,998 --> 00:37:05,238
Speaker 1: were going to meet today with Pat Murphy, the bench

745
00:37:05,278 --> 00:37:08,358
Speaker 1: coach for Craig Council. Doesn't mean they're going to hand

746
00:37:08,478 --> 00:37:10,078
Speaker 1: him the job, but if they want to stay in

747
00:37:10,198 --> 00:37:15,318
Speaker 1: house and again a cheaper alternative, he's there for them.

748
00:37:15,438 --> 00:37:18,638
Speaker 1: Obviously he knows the talent on hand. He also has

749
00:37:18,678 --> 00:37:21,198
Speaker 1: an offer to join Craig Counsel with the Cub staff,

750
00:37:21,238 --> 00:37:23,718
Speaker 1: so there's that as well. It's not a slam dunk,

751
00:37:23,718 --> 00:37:27,438
Speaker 1: there's only thirty jobs, but maybe based on where these

752
00:37:27,438 --> 00:37:29,798
Speaker 1: teams are in the winning curve, the Cubs is a

753
00:37:29,838 --> 00:37:32,198
Speaker 1: better place right now than the Brewers, who I think

754
00:37:32,638 --> 00:37:36,678
Speaker 1: probably going to trade Corbyn Burns and Willia Domis and

755
00:37:36,798 --> 00:37:40,918
Speaker 1: start the rebuild. Remember, Brandon Woodruff is not available next

756
00:37:40,998 --> 00:37:44,838
Speaker 1: year because of shoulder surgery, so we'll see what happens

757
00:37:44,878 --> 00:37:50,238
Speaker 1: there in Milwaukee. David Ross, it could be an option

758
00:37:50,358 --> 00:37:52,278
Speaker 1: for the Brewers, There's no question about it. If you

759
00:37:52,318 --> 00:37:54,478
Speaker 1: want to take away the sting of losing a homegrown

760
00:37:54,558 --> 00:37:58,158
Speaker 1: Craig Council, the greatest manager in Brewers' history, you bring

761
00:37:58,198 --> 00:38:00,438
Speaker 1: in a name manager. You bring in David Ross or

762
00:38:00,478 --> 00:38:03,558
Speaker 1: the other name I heard was Don Maddingly. That would

763
00:38:03,598 --> 00:38:05,958
Speaker 1: be a way to sort of appease your fan base

764
00:38:07,558 --> 00:38:10,678
Speaker 1: and not just go with someone who is not known

765
00:38:11,638 --> 00:38:15,158
Speaker 1: Padres and Angels. Padres apparently are looking at David Ross.

766
00:38:15,198 --> 00:38:17,518
Speaker 1: I think that would be a good fit. I think again, though,

767
00:38:17,558 --> 00:38:20,038
Speaker 1: that's a team that isn't going in the opposite direction

768
00:38:20,078 --> 00:38:22,318
Speaker 1: of the Cubs comes on the upswing. Padres are going

769
00:38:22,318 --> 00:38:25,318
Speaker 1: to be cutting payroll, They'll be cutting trading mon Soto.

770
00:38:26,598 --> 00:38:29,158
Speaker 1: Not a great job in terms of timing, but generally

771
00:38:29,198 --> 00:38:33,638
Speaker 1: a good job overall. The Angels, who knows the most

772
00:38:33,638 --> 00:38:36,558
Speaker 1: difficult team to predict in baseball. They've talked to Benji Gill,

773
00:38:36,638 --> 00:38:39,678
Speaker 1: They've talked to Ray Montgomery, they talked to Buck show Walter.

774
00:38:40,918 --> 00:38:44,198
Speaker 1: Don't think there's a clear favorite right there, but who knows.

775
00:38:44,238 --> 00:38:46,118
Speaker 1: Maybe David Ross. I haven't heard his name with the

776
00:38:46,158 --> 00:38:50,318
Speaker 1: Angels yet, but maybe he's another option there. I would

777
00:38:50,318 --> 00:38:52,758
Speaker 1: think they're going to stay in house, But as I said,

778
00:38:52,798 --> 00:38:56,358
Speaker 1: the Angels unpredictable. A lot to unpack there. Give me

779
00:38:56,398 --> 00:38:59,118
Speaker 1: your thoughts, Joe on how things are playing out right now?

780
00:38:59,398 --> 00:39:01,798
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you covered it pretty well right there. I

781
00:39:01,878 --> 00:39:04,758
Speaker 2: just hadn't even thought about the the future of the

782
00:39:05,038 --> 00:39:07,518
Speaker 2: Brewers was an example, but you know, tit for tat

783
00:39:07,598 --> 00:39:10,158
Speaker 2: would be a great sign. With David going over there,

784
00:39:10,198 --> 00:39:13,358
Speaker 2: they make with how many ever times they play each

785
00:39:13,358 --> 00:39:15,838
Speaker 2: other those games. This would be rather interesting just based

786
00:39:15,878 --> 00:39:19,878
Speaker 2: on that. Uh, there are there are some absolutely good,

787
00:39:19,958 --> 00:39:21,118
Speaker 2: good qualified people there.

788
00:39:21,238 --> 00:39:23,198
Speaker 3: I like Donnie maddingly a lot. I do.

789
00:39:23,238 --> 00:39:28,558
Speaker 2: I like this guy treated me so well in different moments.

790
00:39:28,598 --> 00:39:30,998
Speaker 2: And beyond that, I mean, he's he's a good baseball guy.

791
00:39:31,078 --> 00:39:33,678
Speaker 1: But yeah, by the way, Joe, I thought he would

792
00:39:33,678 --> 00:39:35,638
Speaker 1: have been a really good option for the New York Mets.

793
00:39:35,878 --> 00:39:38,358
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no question. He could handle that stuff really well.

794
00:39:38,398 --> 00:39:40,558
Speaker 2: He's he's a he's an easy rider man, and he's

795
00:39:40,558 --> 00:39:42,358
Speaker 2: a great communicator, just a good dude.

796
00:39:42,798 --> 00:39:43,478
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's.

797
00:39:43,318 --> 00:39:45,078
Speaker 2: Gonna be interesting to see how this all shakes out.

798
00:39:45,078 --> 00:39:45,758
Speaker 3: I have no idea.

799
00:39:45,798 --> 00:39:48,438
Speaker 2: I mean, heck, we couldn't see that Gray Council Craig

800
00:39:48,478 --> 00:39:50,198
Speaker 2: Counsel was going to go to the Cubs, So how

801
00:39:50,198 --> 00:39:52,038
Speaker 2: we're going to figure out who's going to go somewhere else?

802
00:39:52,318 --> 00:39:54,558
Speaker 2: The Angel job? To me, I think Buck is a

803
00:39:55,078 --> 00:39:57,198
Speaker 2: front runner. And I'll just tell you why. I think

804
00:39:57,238 --> 00:39:59,918
Speaker 2: Buck's got a good shot there based on his relationship

805
00:40:00,358 --> 00:40:04,278
Speaker 2: with Perry Menasien from in the past in Texas, because

806
00:40:04,278 --> 00:40:06,918
Speaker 2: I had, you know, many conversations with Perry and he

807
00:40:07,398 --> 00:40:09,798
Speaker 2: always spoke really well of Buck so and I actually

808
00:40:09,838 --> 00:40:11,838
Speaker 2: think that'd be a good fit if Buck in fact

809
00:40:11,878 --> 00:40:14,318
Speaker 2: wanted to do something like that. The big thing there

810
00:40:14,398 --> 00:40:16,358
Speaker 2: is just to make sure that they get the support

811
00:40:16,438 --> 00:40:20,038
Speaker 2: they need from the front office without our ownership, without

812
00:40:20,078 --> 00:40:22,758
Speaker 2: a whole lot of interference. That be exactly what they need,

813
00:40:22,798 --> 00:40:25,838
Speaker 2: and just some some infrastructure improvements kind of things. But

814
00:40:25,918 --> 00:40:28,238
Speaker 2: the other stuff, I just don't know be interested in

815
00:40:28,318 --> 00:40:30,558
Speaker 2: seal shakes. I agree, you're going to see guys that

816
00:40:30,598 --> 00:40:32,798
Speaker 2: they're going to be able to get there, maybe for

817
00:40:32,918 --> 00:40:35,118
Speaker 2: less money, Guys with the lack of experience, just like

818
00:40:35,118 --> 00:40:37,398
Speaker 2: we've been talking about the whole time. That's that's just

819
00:40:37,438 --> 00:40:39,438
Speaker 2: where the industry is, and that's why I'm really reticent.

820
00:40:39,638 --> 00:40:42,998
Speaker 2: I don't believe that the eight million by by Craig

821
00:40:43,078 --> 00:40:45,158
Speaker 2: is going to really make a huge impact anywhere else.

822
00:40:45,238 --> 00:40:45,598
Speaker 3: I don't.

823
00:40:45,598 --> 00:40:48,078
Speaker 2: I think it's going to be status quo throughout. I

824
00:40:48,118 --> 00:40:51,078
Speaker 2: think they're going to continue to hire the non experienced manager.

825
00:40:51,238 --> 00:40:55,358
Speaker 2: I don't think that the front officers really are interested

826
00:40:55,358 --> 00:40:58,118
Speaker 2: in a whole lot of experience, regardless of what happened

827
00:40:58,118 --> 00:41:00,918
Speaker 2: this year with Boach and everybody else. It's it's the

828
00:41:00,918 --> 00:41:03,798
Speaker 2: way it's been established, They've they've been able to keep

829
00:41:03,798 --> 00:41:06,238
Speaker 2: the salaries and check, and they've also been able to

830
00:41:06,278 --> 00:41:07,638
Speaker 2: re establish their control of.

831
00:41:07,598 --> 00:41:09,838
Speaker 3: The situation, like I said, because in the past it

832
00:41:09,918 --> 00:41:10,958
Speaker 3: was all about the manager.

833
00:41:11,078 --> 00:41:14,998
Speaker 2: So I don't think there's going many huge surprises, quite frankly,

834
00:41:15,718 --> 00:41:17,758
Speaker 2: but I think it's going to be more or less

835
00:41:18,038 --> 00:41:20,238
Speaker 2: guys with less experience as opposed to guys with more

836
00:41:20,278 --> 00:41:22,198
Speaker 2: experience being hired right now.

837
00:41:22,518 --> 00:41:25,878
Speaker 1: And finally, let's circle back to Craig Counsel, because I

838
00:41:25,918 --> 00:41:28,718
Speaker 1: think today, if you're a Cubs fan, you have to

839
00:41:28,758 --> 00:41:31,438
Speaker 1: be thrilled, and again you have to feel for David Ross.

840
00:41:31,438 --> 00:41:34,718
Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, part of Joe's World Championship team

841
00:41:34,718 --> 00:41:36,838
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen. I think he was doing a really

842
00:41:36,838 --> 00:41:39,718
Speaker 1: good job as a manager. But now you just had

843
00:41:39,758 --> 00:41:43,318
Speaker 1: your Cubs team set a new bar. As far as

844
00:41:43,398 --> 00:41:47,118
Speaker 1: salaries for managers. You don't do that. You don't pay

845
00:41:47,238 --> 00:41:52,598
Speaker 1: manager eight million dollars without consolidating that investment in player personnel.

846
00:41:53,078 --> 00:41:55,958
Speaker 1: So you're going to see the payroll increase. It just

847
00:41:55,998 --> 00:41:58,958
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense to hire the highest paid manager in

848
00:41:58,958 --> 00:42:01,878
Speaker 1: baseball then try to save some nickels and dimes in

849
00:42:01,918 --> 00:42:04,158
Speaker 1: the roster. So you have to like the signaling right

850
00:42:04,158 --> 00:42:06,518
Speaker 1: there if you're a Cubs fan. And oh, by the way,

851
00:42:06,558 --> 00:42:08,478
Speaker 1: you got a guy in the dugout to me, that

852
00:42:08,518 --> 00:42:13,718
Speaker 1: can influence outcomes of games, maybe more than anybody in

853
00:42:13,758 --> 00:42:16,278
Speaker 1: baseball right now. And I know that sounds like a lot,

854
00:42:16,358 --> 00:42:19,478
Speaker 1: but if you look at Craig Counsel's track record, the

855
00:42:19,518 --> 00:42:21,878
Speaker 1: guy has one of the two or three best records

856
00:42:21,878 --> 00:42:25,358
Speaker 1: in history in one run games. I know a lot

857
00:42:25,358 --> 00:42:28,158
Speaker 1: of people say one run games, well, it's fungibol. Year

858
00:42:28,198 --> 00:42:29,838
Speaker 1: after year, it can go up, it can go down,

859
00:42:29,918 --> 00:42:33,518
Speaker 1: it as a matter of luck. Well, every year, this

860
00:42:33,638 --> 00:42:36,958
Speaker 1: guy wins one run games at a rate that's among

861
00:42:36,998 --> 00:42:40,118
Speaker 1: the very best in baseball. I'm talking every single year.

862
00:42:40,718 --> 00:42:44,838
Speaker 1: He's great at managing bullpens. He doesn't wear out relievers,

863
00:42:44,878 --> 00:42:47,558
Speaker 1: but at the same time he uses them effectively. And

864
00:42:47,638 --> 00:42:51,238
Speaker 1: often he's very aggressive running a game. I mean he

865
00:42:51,318 --> 00:42:53,278
Speaker 1: will pinchhit for a guy in the fourth or fifth

866
00:42:53,278 --> 00:42:55,478
Speaker 1: any if he thinks the opportunity is there. This guy

867
00:42:55,518 --> 00:42:57,518
Speaker 1: does not saved his powder for later in the game.

868
00:42:57,758 --> 00:42:59,718
Speaker 1: And I love the fact that he goes out and

869
00:42:59,718 --> 00:43:01,958
Speaker 1: a seasons a game when it's there to be seized.

870
00:43:02,118 --> 00:43:05,158
Speaker 1: He's fearless, and that's what Pat Murphy told me once

871
00:43:05,158 --> 00:43:07,238
Speaker 1: about Craig Counsel. I asked him what makes him such

872
00:43:07,278 --> 00:43:10,478
Speaker 1: a good manager, and his answer was, he doesn't care.

873
00:43:11,078 --> 00:43:13,718
Speaker 1: He doesn't manage to cover his butt for the questions

874
00:43:13,758 --> 00:43:16,278
Speaker 1: that are coming after the game. If he sees something

875
00:43:16,278 --> 00:43:18,558
Speaker 1: that's the right thing to do, he's going to do it.

876
00:43:18,598 --> 00:43:21,358
Speaker 1: He's got an edge to him. At the same time,

877
00:43:21,398 --> 00:43:24,438
Speaker 1: he's very relatable to the players. So I think if

878
00:43:24,438 --> 00:43:27,238
Speaker 1: you're a Cubs fan, Joey, you gotta be happy right

879
00:43:27,278 --> 00:43:29,478
Speaker 1: now that you have the highest paid manager in baseball.

880
00:43:29,518 --> 00:43:31,638
Speaker 1: The payroll is going to increase, and he's gonna win

881
00:43:31,718 --> 00:43:33,758
Speaker 1: you some games that you probably shouldn't win just because

882
00:43:33,798 --> 00:43:34,878
Speaker 1: he's that good of manager.

883
00:43:35,398 --> 00:43:35,998
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the.

884
00:43:35,918 --> 00:43:39,158
Speaker 2: Only way to managers in a fearless situation, a method

885
00:43:39,238 --> 00:43:41,678
Speaker 2: and to not be concerned about some of the tougher

886
00:43:41,758 --> 00:43:43,758
Speaker 2: questions you may have to answer after the game. I

887
00:43:43,798 --> 00:43:45,358
Speaker 2: know Murph really well too. I knew Murph when he

888
00:43:45,438 --> 00:43:48,598
Speaker 2: was at Arizona State also, so that was a really

889
00:43:48,678 --> 00:43:50,278
Speaker 2: nice union that they had there. So it would not

890
00:43:50,358 --> 00:43:55,758
Speaker 2: surprise me that he might might actually go to the

891
00:43:55,798 --> 00:43:58,318
Speaker 2: Cubs with Craig as opposedest thing as a manager with

892
00:43:58,398 --> 00:44:00,438
Speaker 2: the Brewers. I would bet he's going to get paid

893
00:44:00,558 --> 00:44:03,478
Speaker 2: almost the same as being a coach with the Cubs

894
00:44:03,478 --> 00:44:06,198
Speaker 2: as opposed to the manager with the Brewers. So I'd

895
00:44:06,198 --> 00:44:09,758
Speaker 2: be curious about that, but yeah, that's the way to

896
00:44:09,838 --> 00:44:12,678
Speaker 2: do it. One run games. He's had good bullpens. I

897
00:44:12,718 --> 00:44:14,358
Speaker 2: mean that's part of it too. I mean he had

898
00:44:14,398 --> 00:44:17,158
Speaker 2: hater the kid Williams, and he's had some really good

899
00:44:17,318 --> 00:44:20,798
Speaker 2: end of the game relief pitchers. He has the thing

900
00:44:20,838 --> 00:44:23,918
Speaker 2: that I've liked about their conception. I thought they were

901
00:44:23,918 --> 00:44:27,318
Speaker 2: like the Latter Day Rays. They're really good on defense.

902
00:44:27,478 --> 00:44:30,998
Speaker 2: They set their defenses really well. That was one of

903
00:44:30,998 --> 00:44:33,158
Speaker 2: the reasons why they beat us with the Cubs later

904
00:44:33,198 --> 00:44:35,798
Speaker 2: on when I was there, is because their positioning was

905
00:44:35,838 --> 00:44:38,878
Speaker 2: so good. I was really impressed with that from them.

906
00:44:38,958 --> 00:44:41,078
Speaker 2: I thought they were outstanding with that. They had the

907
00:44:41,238 --> 00:44:42,718
Speaker 2: Ing and the Yang, they had the lefty and the right.

908
00:44:44,038 --> 00:44:47,478
Speaker 2: They did legitimately create some platoon advantages. They took some

909
00:44:47,518 --> 00:44:49,958
Speaker 2: guys that had not been great anywhere else are not

910
00:44:50,078 --> 00:44:54,318
Speaker 2: so good. Citizen Kane Renze Kine love him. Renzo Kane

911
00:44:54,878 --> 00:44:57,198
Speaker 2: was one of the better players over the last ten years.

912
00:44:57,238 --> 00:45:00,198
Speaker 2: And nobody talks about this guy was a driving force.

913
00:45:00,638 --> 00:45:04,518
Speaker 2: He definitely he could be the glue guy with that

914
00:45:04,558 --> 00:45:07,358
Speaker 2: particular team. I loved them for that they had him.

915
00:45:07,358 --> 00:45:08,998
Speaker 2: And then when they picked up Shaw from the from

916
00:45:08,998 --> 00:45:11,278
Speaker 2: the Red Sox, nobody thought anything of him. And all

917
00:45:11,278 --> 00:45:13,798
Speaker 2: of a sudden he takes off. And then Thames comes

918
00:45:13,798 --> 00:45:17,198
Speaker 2: back over from what Korea where he came from?

919
00:45:17,318 --> 00:45:17,518
Speaker 3: Yeah?

920
00:45:17,798 --> 00:45:19,678
Speaker 2: Uh, and then all of a sudden he takes off.

921
00:45:20,278 --> 00:45:22,398
Speaker 2: The catchers. They've done a nice job with their catchers.

922
00:45:22,558 --> 00:45:25,558
Speaker 2: They've done a nice job acquisitionally putting it together, while

923
00:45:25,558 --> 00:45:29,318
Speaker 2: they developed some really good starting and relief pitching. They've

924
00:45:29,318 --> 00:45:31,558
Speaker 2: they've they've been the race. They've been the northern version

925
00:45:31,598 --> 00:45:33,358
Speaker 2: of the race. That's how I've seen them. And now

926
00:45:33,438 --> 00:45:35,998
Speaker 2: Maddie Arnold's there, and Maddy grew up with the Rays also.

927
00:45:36,958 --> 00:45:39,438
Speaker 2: I don't know to the extent that what Stearns had done,

928
00:45:39,478 --> 00:45:41,638
Speaker 2: and I don't know how much influence he had as

929
00:45:41,718 --> 00:45:44,078
Speaker 2: much influence as Maddy Arnold may have had. I don't know,

930
00:45:44,598 --> 00:45:46,398
Speaker 2: but they are the Latter Day Rays and that's how

931
00:45:46,438 --> 00:45:49,958
Speaker 2: I see them. And so the way Craig managed them

932
00:45:50,038 --> 00:45:52,678
Speaker 2: was perfect. To be fearless, to push it if they

933
00:45:52,718 --> 00:45:53,718
Speaker 2: they had guys we could.

934
00:45:53,598 --> 00:45:55,038
Speaker 3: Run, they ran. They they didn't.

935
00:45:55,078 --> 00:45:57,758
Speaker 2: They did not run because it was not cool to

936
00:45:57,838 --> 00:45:59,478
Speaker 2: run or get thrown out. They ran because they could

937
00:45:59,478 --> 00:46:02,158
Speaker 2: steal bases. They pushed it hard, and like I said,

938
00:46:02,238 --> 00:46:05,558
Speaker 2: came to me on one of the most underappreciated players

939
00:46:05,558 --> 00:46:08,278
Speaker 2: of the last decade, and they're Bullpenn. They've always had

940
00:46:08,358 --> 00:46:09,278
Speaker 2: legitimate closers.

941
00:46:09,518 --> 00:46:13,118
Speaker 1: A great point about their defense as well positioning. They

942
00:46:13,118 --> 00:46:16,678
Speaker 1: tend to have younger teams, more athletic, and Craig Counsel

943
00:46:16,758 --> 00:46:19,478
Speaker 1: is going to have a superior defensive club with the

944
00:46:19,518 --> 00:46:24,158
Speaker 1: Chicago Cubs, so you'll see more of that style they

945
00:46:24,158 --> 00:46:25,518
Speaker 1: need to go out and I think gets some more

946
00:46:25,558 --> 00:46:28,478
Speaker 1: swing and miss arms on that pitching staff. But the

947
00:46:28,598 --> 00:46:30,558
Speaker 1: Cubs are going to be good next year, there's no question.

948
00:46:30,678 --> 00:46:32,838
Speaker 1: And we'll see how active they are. I think they'll

949
00:46:32,838 --> 00:46:36,598
Speaker 1: be very active this winter. Joey You has slipped in

950
00:46:36,678 --> 00:46:39,758
Speaker 1: something there about Pat Murphy and you know what he

951
00:46:39,838 --> 00:46:42,758
Speaker 1: might be paid. The difference between coaching managing not that

952
00:46:42,838 --> 00:46:46,078
Speaker 1: big as long as we're talking about salaries for staff,

953
00:46:46,118 --> 00:46:48,478
Speaker 1: how about coaches man I was talking to a coach

954
00:46:48,558 --> 00:46:52,078
Speaker 1: the other day who said it is amazing how underpaid

955
00:46:52,118 --> 00:46:54,518
Speaker 1: coaches are. They work more than ever before. Now, there's

956
00:46:54,558 --> 00:46:58,158
Speaker 1: no question about that. And his point was, you know,

957
00:46:58,238 --> 00:47:02,358
Speaker 1: if it's it's like an organization asks people who they

958
00:47:02,398 --> 00:47:04,878
Speaker 1: have in their employ who wants to be a major

959
00:47:04,958 --> 00:47:07,838
Speaker 1: league coach for one hundred and twenty thousand dollars. Well,

960
00:47:07,878 --> 00:47:10,798
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people in the lower miners who

961
00:47:10,838 --> 00:47:13,758
Speaker 1: are or maybe just that hired out of a college

962
00:47:13,798 --> 00:47:17,438
Speaker 1: system or you know, an analysts somewhere. Their hands are

963
00:47:17,438 --> 00:47:20,198
Speaker 1: gonna shoot up. I can be a major league baseball

964
00:47:20,918 --> 00:47:23,758
Speaker 1: I don't care what they pay me. That's get me in.

965
00:47:24,798 --> 00:47:27,078
Speaker 1: And if you're a former player, this guy's point was,

966
00:47:27,438 --> 00:47:29,998
Speaker 1: there's no way you're taking that job because actually, when

967
00:47:30,038 --> 00:47:32,118
Speaker 1: you factor in, especially if you're in a big market,

968
00:47:32,278 --> 00:47:34,598
Speaker 1: the cost of living, expenses, and the amount of hours

969
00:47:34,598 --> 00:47:37,318
Speaker 1: you put in, you wind up actually breaking. Even if

970
00:47:37,318 --> 00:47:40,718
Speaker 1: you're lucky, you're working for free. So that's the difference.

971
00:47:40,758 --> 00:47:44,958
Speaker 1: I think the rewards system, Joe is allowing people who

972
00:47:44,958 --> 00:47:46,958
Speaker 1: have never been in major league baseball to get into

973
00:47:46,958 --> 00:47:50,118
Speaker 1: major league baseball, and it's closing out the people who

974
00:47:50,158 --> 00:47:53,158
Speaker 1: have been in major league baseball. There's really something wrong

975
00:47:53,198 --> 00:47:56,038
Speaker 1: with that system there. And if you look at some

976
00:47:56,078 --> 00:47:58,758
Speaker 1: of the great coaching staffs, with the Braves, the Rangers,

977
00:47:58,798 --> 00:48:02,118
Speaker 1: the Diamondbacks, you see a bunch of former major leaguers

978
00:48:02,278 --> 00:48:04,878
Speaker 1: sprinkled in there, but often you see any you know,

979
00:48:05,118 --> 00:48:08,598
Speaker 1: very few, if any major leaguers, because the pay is

980
00:48:08,598 --> 00:48:10,998
Speaker 1: so poor based on what they're asking these guys to do.

981
00:48:11,478 --> 00:48:13,398
Speaker 3: You're right, I mean it's a break even situation.

982
00:48:13,518 --> 00:48:15,718
Speaker 2: My first year, the first couple years as a major

983
00:48:15,798 --> 00:48:18,198
Speaker 2: league coach for me in the mid nineties, I losing money.

984
00:48:18,238 --> 00:48:20,038
Speaker 2: I mean, living in two different places, you get no

985
00:48:20,158 --> 00:48:23,438
Speaker 2: rais whatsoever. There's no idea, they don't carry any costs

986
00:48:23,478 --> 00:48:25,478
Speaker 2: with the you know, paying for a place to live,

987
00:48:25,478 --> 00:48:28,678
Speaker 2: et cetera. At that time anyway, So I'm literally actually

988
00:48:28,718 --> 00:48:31,478
Speaker 2: losing money by becoming a major league coach. There's no question,

989
00:48:31,518 --> 00:48:33,598
Speaker 2: and you're right. Today, I would say it's a break

990
00:48:33,598 --> 00:48:36,958
Speaker 2: even situation. And just to take it to another level,

991
00:48:37,038 --> 00:48:39,518
Speaker 2: I think they should make coaches should make a major

992
00:48:39,598 --> 00:48:43,158
Speaker 2: league minimum. Whatever major league player's minimum salary is, that's

993
00:48:43,198 --> 00:48:46,358
Speaker 2: what your coach should be able to make. If not that,

994
00:48:46,598 --> 00:48:49,518
Speaker 2: at least something close to it. There should be some

995
00:48:49,598 --> 00:48:53,638
Speaker 2: kind of major league coaching salary minimum number that everybody

996
00:48:53,678 --> 00:48:54,358
Speaker 2: at least gets.

997
00:48:54,398 --> 00:48:55,598
Speaker 3: I think that would be appropriate.

998
00:48:55,958 --> 00:48:58,758
Speaker 2: But the problem is it's viewed as though anybody can

999
00:48:58,758 --> 00:49:01,478
Speaker 2: do it, Like you're talking about, there's not a whole

1000
00:49:01,558 --> 00:49:06,478
Speaker 2: lot of from the perspective of up top two below,

1001
00:49:06,918 --> 00:49:08,918
Speaker 2: like the impact that a coach could make. I'm always

1002
00:49:08,918 --> 00:49:11,758
Speaker 2: wanted impactful coaches. I want guys that I really want

1003
00:49:11,798 --> 00:49:14,038
Speaker 2: to be able to turn loose, empower them, let them

1004
00:49:14,038 --> 00:49:15,838
Speaker 2: go do their jobs, and they're going to make an impact.

1005
00:49:15,878 --> 00:49:17,718
Speaker 2: I mean, of course, Kevin Long, there is a great

1006
00:49:17,758 --> 00:49:20,718
Speaker 2: example of that right now. You talk about Maddox going

1007
00:49:20,758 --> 00:49:23,398
Speaker 2: to the Rangers, perfect example. And there's hitting coaches and

1008
00:49:23,438 --> 00:49:26,238
Speaker 2: pitching coaches probably are going to make the most money.

1009
00:49:26,718 --> 00:49:29,198
Speaker 2: But you can never underms estimate the value of a

1010
00:49:29,198 --> 00:49:31,798
Speaker 2: really good third base coach or just plainly a good

1011
00:49:31,798 --> 00:49:35,238
Speaker 2: infield coach, and for me, a really good outfield coach.

1012
00:49:35,358 --> 00:49:38,198
Speaker 2: I like, I've done all those different jobs, so I

1013
00:49:38,278 --> 00:49:42,038
Speaker 2: know it requires a certain level of expertise in each

1014
00:49:42,118 --> 00:49:44,438
Speaker 2: area and a lot of commitment. And then right now,

1015
00:49:44,438 --> 00:49:46,918
Speaker 2: like you're talking about all the information that's heaped on

1016
00:49:46,958 --> 00:49:50,798
Speaker 2: you every day that you have to decipher and sift

1017
00:49:50,798 --> 00:49:53,718
Speaker 2: through and then disseminate, a lot going on there man

1018
00:49:53,838 --> 00:49:55,958
Speaker 2: a lot going on there and the hours that you spend.

1019
00:49:55,998 --> 00:49:57,038
Speaker 3: I've had my coaches.

1020
00:49:57,478 --> 00:50:00,358
Speaker 2: I had coaches that would go to the ballpark that

1021
00:50:00,518 --> 00:50:02,598
Speaker 2: ten eleven o'clock in the morning for a seven o'clock

1022
00:50:02,758 --> 00:50:05,438
Speaker 2: game at night. I say, please doing that, because I

1023
00:50:05,478 --> 00:50:07,958
Speaker 2: actually used to do that when I started with Marcel.

1024
00:50:08,518 --> 00:50:10,438
Speaker 2: I'd get there about eleven thirty or noon for a

1025
00:50:10,478 --> 00:50:12,798
Speaker 2: seven o'clock game because at that time there was no

1026
00:50:13,118 --> 00:50:17,558
Speaker 2: analytical department, so I was the whole analytical department.

1027
00:50:17,678 --> 00:50:18,438
Speaker 3: It would take me that.

1028
00:50:18,438 --> 00:50:20,558
Speaker 2: Long to prepare for a first game of a series,

1029
00:50:20,838 --> 00:50:23,038
Speaker 2: about five hours for a first game of a series.

1030
00:50:23,878 --> 00:50:25,998
Speaker 2: Then it would present all the information to the team,

1031
00:50:26,838 --> 00:50:28,678
Speaker 2: and I know eventually that did kind of wipe me

1032
00:50:28,718 --> 00:50:33,318
Speaker 2: out for a bit. So it's important to understand all that.

1033
00:50:33,958 --> 00:50:35,558
Speaker 2: Hire people that you think are really good at what

1034
00:50:35,558 --> 00:50:37,398
Speaker 2: they do, and then pay them and keep them because

1035
00:50:37,398 --> 00:50:40,198
Speaker 2: the continuity also is going to help these teams become

1036
00:50:40,238 --> 00:50:42,998
Speaker 2: good over period of time. I don't think that's considered enough.

1037
00:50:43,038 --> 00:50:45,118
Speaker 2: When I was able to keep my same coaching staff

1038
00:50:45,358 --> 00:50:47,158
Speaker 2: for several years in roy I promise you this, when

1039
00:50:47,158 --> 00:50:50,118
Speaker 2: you walk into spring training different, totally different. I know

1040
00:50:50,158 --> 00:50:52,198
Speaker 2: it's different for the players It's different for the manager

1041
00:50:52,558 --> 00:50:55,718
Speaker 2: because you know what you're talking about here. As a group,

1042
00:50:55,878 --> 00:50:59,318
Speaker 2: you know what with each other, believes in tough conversations

1043
00:50:59,358 --> 00:51:01,918
Speaker 2: are easier because the skin's got a little bit thicker.

1044
00:51:02,158 --> 00:51:05,478
Speaker 2: You're not just trying to ameliorate or please everybody. It matters.

1045
00:51:05,518 --> 00:51:08,558
Speaker 2: So as a part of it, that's I've often never

1046
00:51:08,678 --> 00:51:11,758
Speaker 2: understood why it's so overlooked and it's so underpaid.

1047
00:51:12,078 --> 00:51:14,678
Speaker 1: But that's a great point you just made about the consistency.

1048
00:51:14,718 --> 00:51:16,918
Speaker 1: I remember talking to Chad Mattola, the hitting coach with

1049
00:51:16,998 --> 00:51:19,638
Speaker 1: the Rays, when the Rays got off to that thirteen

1050
00:51:19,678 --> 00:51:22,598
Speaker 1: to oh start this year, and it's exactly what he

1051
00:51:22,678 --> 00:51:25,038
Speaker 1: talked about. For the first time he had probably the

1052
00:51:25,078 --> 00:51:29,118
Speaker 1: same core group of hitters for like a third year

1053
00:51:29,158 --> 00:51:31,238
Speaker 1: in a row. It doesn't happen often in Tampa with

1054
00:51:31,278 --> 00:51:34,118
Speaker 1: all the churn they have, and he talked exactly about

1055
00:51:34,118 --> 00:51:36,198
Speaker 1: what you just said, Joe. It's almost like the equivalent

1056
00:51:36,238 --> 00:51:38,718
Speaker 1: of teaching a four hundred level course. You know, you

1057
00:51:38,798 --> 00:51:41,518
Speaker 1: get deep into your major, you're a senior, you don't

1058
00:51:41,558 --> 00:51:43,598
Speaker 1: have to cover the basics. You know, it's not a

1059
00:51:43,598 --> 00:51:46,478
Speaker 1: one hundred level course. And I think for hitting coaches

1060
00:51:46,558 --> 00:51:48,798
Speaker 1: especially and I'm sure pitching coaches as well. When we

1061
00:51:48,918 --> 00:51:52,278
Speaker 1: keep the same group together, that's a big advantage. You

1062
00:51:52,318 --> 00:51:54,718
Speaker 1: can dive deeper. Everybody's on the same page, and you

1063
00:51:54,758 --> 00:51:58,318
Speaker 1: can kind of really push the envelope forward a little bit.

1064
00:51:58,478 --> 00:52:02,318
Speaker 1: So it's great observation on your part. As far as

1065
00:52:02,318 --> 00:52:05,558
Speaker 1: the salaries, Chili Davis was the first one who opened

1066
00:52:05,558 --> 00:52:08,038
Speaker 1: my eyes to that. He talked about when you're in

1067
00:52:08,078 --> 00:52:10,758
Speaker 1: a major market New York Chicago, you know a lot

1068
00:52:10,758 --> 00:52:13,438
Speaker 1: of times you can't get anything shorter than a year lease.

1069
00:52:14,158 --> 00:52:16,718
Speaker 1: The prices are crazy, the rent you're paying. As you said,

1070
00:52:16,798 --> 00:52:19,438
Speaker 1: you're there only half the year. Anyway, you need to

1071
00:52:19,438 --> 00:52:23,118
Speaker 1: get to the ballpark early because guys hit hit. That

1072
00:52:23,198 --> 00:52:25,798
Speaker 1: often means there's no team bus to take you out there.

1073
00:52:25,798 --> 00:52:28,358
Speaker 1: You're literally on your own for transportation to get back

1074
00:52:28,358 --> 00:52:30,838
Speaker 1: and forth to the ballparks, even when you're on the road.

1075
00:52:30,878 --> 00:52:33,558
Speaker 1: That comes out of your pocket. He basically said, and

1076
00:52:33,598 --> 00:52:36,838
Speaker 1: after taxes, you know, because you have a second place

1077
00:52:36,838 --> 00:52:40,798
Speaker 1: in your off season home, you're literally breaking even if

1078
00:52:40,838 --> 00:52:43,278
Speaker 1: you're lucky or losing money. I think that is something

1079
00:52:43,358 --> 00:52:46,158
Speaker 1: that's I think it's a great idea. The coaching salaries

1080
00:52:46,398 --> 00:52:48,798
Speaker 1: should be equivalent to the last guy in the roster

1081
00:52:48,918 --> 00:52:52,278
Speaker 1: at least, or at least get closer to it than what.

1082
00:52:52,238 --> 00:52:52,838
Speaker 3: It is now.

1083
00:52:54,398 --> 00:52:57,198
Speaker 1: So I don't think that's going to happen soon because listen,

1084
00:52:57,278 --> 00:52:58,878
Speaker 1: the supply of guys who want to coach in the

1085
00:52:58,918 --> 00:53:03,238
Speaker 1: big leagues is endless. And again, the younger generation and

1086
00:53:03,278 --> 00:53:07,358
Speaker 1: president base bio ops who are making these decisions are

1087
00:53:07,398 --> 00:53:11,918
Speaker 1: more comfortable with inexperienced people than experienced people. It's just

1088
00:53:11,918 --> 00:53:13,158
Speaker 1: the way the world is right now.

1089
00:53:13,318 --> 00:53:13,598
Speaker 3: It is.

1090
00:53:13,678 --> 00:53:16,198
Speaker 2: It's uh, and we have to really, everybody's got to

1091
00:53:16,238 --> 00:53:18,838
Speaker 2: realize here too. The coaches get blamed when players don't

1092
00:53:18,838 --> 00:53:19,238
Speaker 2: play well.

1093
00:53:19,318 --> 00:53:21,318
Speaker 3: Coaches get blamed. The player doesn't get blamed.

1094
00:53:21,318 --> 00:53:27,038
Speaker 2: Coaches get blamed, and it's it's it's never really uh.

1095
00:53:27,478 --> 00:53:30,118
Speaker 2: The blame has never really placed on the acquisitional process,

1096
00:53:30,158 --> 00:53:33,518
Speaker 2: something I've talked about before. So if you're gonna if

1097
00:53:33,518 --> 00:53:35,998
Speaker 2: you want the coaches to absorb all the blame for

1098
00:53:36,078 --> 00:53:37,878
Speaker 2: when the player does not perform up to which you

1099
00:53:37,958 --> 00:53:40,438
Speaker 2: perceive to be what should be the standards that this

1100
00:53:40,478 --> 00:53:42,798
Speaker 2: guy should be playing at, then pay the guy. I

1101
00:53:42,838 --> 00:53:44,878
Speaker 2: mean pay the guy, because if you're gonna give him

1102
00:53:44,878 --> 00:53:47,878
Speaker 2: that much blame, if you're gonna hold him that highly accountable,

1103
00:53:48,358 --> 00:53:50,318
Speaker 2: then then pay him to pay him like a boss.

1104
00:53:50,398 --> 00:53:51,438
Speaker 3: Let let this guy.

1105
00:53:51,238 --> 00:53:53,638
Speaker 2: Think he's that good and and make it so that

1106
00:53:53,638 --> 00:53:55,198
Speaker 2: when he comes to the ballpark he doesn't have to

1107
00:53:55,198 --> 00:53:58,478
Speaker 2: worry about, you know, the kids payment to go to college,

1108
00:53:58,998 --> 00:54:00,398
Speaker 2: or maybe the car broke.

1109
00:54:00,238 --> 00:54:02,518
Speaker 3: Down, or we need a new TV or the.

1110
00:54:02,798 --> 00:54:06,478
Speaker 2: Addition to that whatever. Take some of that off his head.

1111
00:54:06,558 --> 00:54:09,158
Speaker 2: That's not even considered, that's not even talked about. The

1112
00:54:09,238 --> 00:54:13,198
Speaker 2: coaches get all the blame, and the dudes that don't

1113
00:54:13,278 --> 00:54:17,638
Speaker 2: are the ones that are that are recommending whomever's going

1114
00:54:17,718 --> 00:54:19,878
Speaker 2: to be coming into the organization. And when that doesn't work,

1115
00:54:19,878 --> 00:54:22,478
Speaker 2: odd it just didn't work. It. They eventually will work

1116
00:54:22,518 --> 00:54:25,718
Speaker 2: out because of the large sample size if we stay

1117
00:54:25,758 --> 00:54:28,278
Speaker 2: with it. But in the short term, the guys that

1118
00:54:28,278 --> 00:54:29,598
Speaker 2: are work doing the work every day are the ones

1119
00:54:29,598 --> 00:54:31,718
Speaker 2: who get blamed. They get and they get fired. To

1120
00:54:31,758 --> 00:54:35,798
Speaker 2: this and I've been a part of that where I've

1121
00:54:35,798 --> 00:54:39,078
Speaker 2: been part of firings not and I think maybe one

1122
00:54:39,278 --> 00:54:42,238
Speaker 2: in all the years that I manage, maybe one, possibly

1123
00:54:42,278 --> 00:54:46,238
Speaker 2: two that I really wanted proactively to happen. The other ones, no,

1124
00:54:46,638 --> 00:54:48,438
Speaker 2: I mean to me, like I said before, I would

1125
00:54:48,438 --> 00:54:51,998
Speaker 2: prefer keeping the group that I have. The grass is

1126
00:54:52,038 --> 00:54:54,318
Speaker 2: always greener kind of thing. My god, is it go

1127
00:54:54,438 --> 00:54:57,798
Speaker 2: brown quickly? For a lot of situations when they bring

1128
00:54:57,838 --> 00:54:59,758
Speaker 2: somebody and all of a sudden, he's, you know, the

1129
00:55:00,078 --> 00:55:03,198
Speaker 2: new kid on the block, the flavor of the month,

1130
00:55:03,198 --> 00:55:05,598
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, it's being that relatively fast.

1131
00:55:06,118 --> 00:55:09,598
Speaker 2: It's not any better man, it's the players and so

1132
00:55:09,598 --> 00:55:13,798
Speaker 2: so it's it's just understand what's going on here, Evaluate properly,

1133
00:55:13,838 --> 00:55:16,758
Speaker 2: what is our problem right here? Evaluate it properly, and

1134
00:55:16,838 --> 00:55:19,678
Speaker 2: then go ahead and attack it. But just don't constantly

1135
00:55:20,118 --> 00:55:22,078
Speaker 2: lay all the accountability at the feet of the coaches

1136
00:55:22,118 --> 00:55:23,118
Speaker 2: when you don't want to pay him.

1137
00:55:23,478 --> 00:55:26,958
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's, uh, there's something wrong in the baseball

1138
00:55:27,038 --> 00:55:29,198
Speaker 1: world when there's a lot of guys that, believe me,

1139
00:55:29,238 --> 00:55:32,158
Speaker 1: there are a lot who would rather manage coach in

1140
00:55:32,638 --> 00:55:37,038
Speaker 1: college baseball than in major league baseball. It's just a

1141
00:55:37,078 --> 00:55:42,038
Speaker 1: fact these days. So there's that. Jonas has been fascinating.

1142
00:55:42,078 --> 00:55:44,198
Speaker 1: We'll see how things play out. We obviously wish the

1143
00:55:44,238 --> 00:55:47,358
Speaker 1: best for David Ross, that he lands on his feet somewhere.

1144
00:55:48,198 --> 00:55:50,678
Speaker 1: He was on the wrong end of this bittersweet trade,

1145
00:55:50,678 --> 00:55:53,358
Speaker 1: if you will, in Chicago. Uh, and we'll see how

1146
00:55:53,398 --> 00:55:55,758
Speaker 1: the other jobs play out, and we'll be here to

1147
00:55:56,038 --> 00:55:59,318
Speaker 1: break it all down for you as always. So in

1148
00:55:59,358 --> 00:56:02,678
Speaker 1: the meantime, this let's call it manager Manager's Edition of

1149
00:56:02,718 --> 00:56:05,798
Speaker 1: the Book of Joe podcasts, as they always do, Joe,

1150
00:56:05,918 --> 00:56:08,958
Speaker 1: and to call on you to get the last out.

1151
00:56:09,238 --> 00:56:10,478
Speaker 3: I'll believe. Okay, this is on me.

1152
00:56:10,598 --> 00:56:13,158
Speaker 2: Today's on me because people don't realize this, but we

1153
00:56:13,238 --> 00:56:15,358
Speaker 2: have two. We're doing two podcasts today, and I screwed

1154
00:56:15,438 --> 00:56:17,518
Speaker 2: up this morning. I was late for this, and I

1155
00:56:17,518 --> 00:56:20,038
Speaker 2: want to apologize to both Vince and Tommy right now.

1156
00:56:20,798 --> 00:56:21,478
Speaker 3: Quote of the Days.

1157
00:56:21,518 --> 00:56:23,998
Speaker 2: You can't make up for lost time, And I apologize, gentlemen,

1158
00:56:24,398 --> 00:56:24,638
Speaker 2: if it.

1159
00:56:24,638 --> 00:56:26,518
Speaker 3: Happens again, you got to you gotta find me. You

1160
00:56:26,518 --> 00:56:28,678
Speaker 3: gotta find me. You gotta find me next time. I

1161
00:56:28,678 --> 00:56:28,998
Speaker 3: don't know.

1162
00:56:29,318 --> 00:56:32,598
Speaker 2: Nice bottle of something, Fence, nice bottle of something, Tommy,

1163
00:56:32,638 --> 00:56:33,358
Speaker 2: I owe you, guys.

1164
00:56:33,638 --> 00:56:36,438
Speaker 1: Yeah, Kangaroo Court will be in session right after this.

1165
00:56:36,398 --> 00:56:38,718
Speaker 3: Joe, I got I'm guilty. I'm guilty.

1166
00:56:39,118 --> 00:56:39,838
Speaker 1: See you next time.

1167
00:56:39,918 --> 00:56:41,558
Speaker 3: Thanks, all right, all right, brothers, see you man.

1168
00:56:49,078 --> 00:56:52,318
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1169
00:56:52,518 --> 00:56:57,518
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts,

1170
00:56:57,638 --> 00:56:59,398
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.