1 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Hi if Peter Schweizer, that's Eric Eggers. We're filling in 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: for Sean. We want you to join the conversation, specifically, 3 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,879 Speaker 1: a question about this new political party that Elon Musk 4 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: might be forming, the so called America Party. Mark Cuban 5 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: says he's in the Texas Billionaire and Anthony Scarmucci, the 6 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: former spokesman for Donald Trump the first term, both say 7 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: they want to join this political party. Would you the audience, 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,159 Speaker 1: consider joining the America Party. We want to hear from you. 9 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: One eight hundred nine for one Shawn one nine one 10 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: seven two six. 11 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. 12 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 3: There was a moment over the weekend when the idea 13 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 3: of Elon Musk, the billionaire who helped get Donald Trump elected, 14 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 3: announcing the creation of a new political party might have 15 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 3: been considered the biggest story of the weekend. Uh And 16 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 3: then Donald Trump signs this big, beautiful bill, The New 17 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 3: York Times outs the you know, mom, Donnie for cultural appropriation. 18 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 3: And then, of course, last night we get this bombshell 19 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 3: announcement from the United States Government, or at least from Axio, 20 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 3: saying that the United States Government has no evidence of 21 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:08,479 Speaker 3: any attempts by Jeffrey Epstein to blackmail people, essentially saying 22 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 3: there's nothing more to see here. They are shutting down 23 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 3: the investigation. A lot of people are reacting very strongly 24 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 3: to that news, and so we thought who better to 25 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 3: discuss that than former Epstein attorney David Shoon, who joins 26 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 3: us now the Sean Handy Programs to Shoan, how are you? 27 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 2: Thanks? Thanks for having me on. 28 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 3: We're great. We would love to get just your reaction 29 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 3: to the announcement. Last night, Axios gave an excerpt from 30 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 3: this memo that has been on Earth from the Department 31 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 3: of Justice, saying, quote, this systematic review related revealed no 32 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 3: incriminating client list. There was no credible evidence found that 33 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 3: Jeffrey Epstein blackmailed prominent individuals as part of his actions, 34 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 3: and we did not uncover evidence that could predicate an 35 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 3: investigation against uncharged third parties. Your reaction to a that 36 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 3: news and the fact that they're admitting this now. 37 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 2: I'm not surprised by it whatsoever. I never thought that 38 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 2: there would be a client list or that he was 39 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 2: involved in any effort to blackmail anyone. Remember, you know 40 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 2: I knew him pretty well. He trusts me, he said 41 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 2: once to his in house counsel who said to me 42 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 2: that I was the only person in the world he 43 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 2: trusted with his life, and that's why I hired me 44 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 2: to take over his criminal case. For about a year 45 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 2: before he died, he was asking me to review his 46 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 2: lawyer's work. He had a battery of some of the 47 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 2: top lawyers in the country representing him for a long time. 48 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 2: So I was very flattered when he asked me to 49 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 2: take over the case when he was really facing criminal charges. 50 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 2: But you know, look, if he had information to use 51 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: against other people, logically he would have used it in 52 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 2: his case, and that would have been the first thing 53 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 2: that would have used because he certainly could have helped himself. 54 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: I know that there have been all of these stories, 55 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 2: that there must be files out there in a client list, 56 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 2: and all that I've never believed it. Frankly, now, listen, 57 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,959 Speaker 2: that doesn't Meanybody knows he ran with wealthy and powerful people. 58 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 2: He entertained them in his home, he flew with them, 59 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 2: and so on. Part of what sticks and micro about 60 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 2: all this is by the way that those people really 61 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 2: enjoyed their time with him. They used him also, And 62 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, when the stories came out and 63 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 2: he was charged with a crime, they all cut their 64 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 2: ties with him as if they had never known him, 65 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 2: and so on. I'll tell you one last interesting thing. 66 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 2: I wanted to just mention. He had a very interesting 67 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 2: photo array at his home of some of the wealthy people. 68 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 2: And so for example, he had a picture there of 69 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 2: Bill Gates with a dollar bill in it. So I 70 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 2: asked him, you know, what's this all about. He said, well, 71 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 2: he made a bet with Bill Gates, and what was 72 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 2: he going to bet Bill Gates? So he bet him 73 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 2: a dollar and he won. There's no question he had 74 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,119 Speaker 2: close contact with these people, but I don't think there's 75 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 2: any evidence of, you know, anything further than that, and 76 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 2: in terms of any kind of list or blackmail effort. 77 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's the interesting question to me, right, 78 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: is there's no question that he has these relationships. So 79 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: you said, whatever the extent of those relationships, we don't 80 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: fully know. But the fact that there is is the 81 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:06,839 Speaker 1: Department Justice as not a quote unquote client list, doesn't 82 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: mean that there isn't necessarily a problem that some of 83 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: these people have in terms of what their relationship was 84 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: with Epstein. We were talking earlier on the show about this. 85 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: JP Morgan situation where you know, apparently they admitted that Epstein, 86 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: over the courses his relationship had you know, drawn I 87 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: think a billion dollars through JP Morgan accounts. There were 88 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: claims that this was related to human trafficking. My question 89 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 1: for you is, what do you think is perhaps the 90 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: culpability or the vulnerability that these wealthy individuals have, because, 91 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: as you pointed out, they clearly enjoy the relationship. I 92 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: don't think it was coercive. I don't think that he 93 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: was somehow manipulating them. It was a friendship. Do you 94 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 1: believe that there is any legal culpability or problems not 95 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: naming any particular individuals with some the people that he 96 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: was spending time. 97 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 2: With, I don't think so, quite frankly, And I'll say 98 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 2: this about the blackmail effort. Listen. I know people have 99 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 2: painted Jeffrey Epstein as his monster and someone from the 100 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 2: way I knew him, I don't think he was a 101 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 2: kind of person who would blackmail someone had that in mind. 102 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 2: He was a different sort of guy obviously in many ways. 103 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 2: But he enjoyed their company, they enjoyed his, and he 104 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 2: wasn't a guy who wanted to then, you know, get 105 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 2: people in trouble or expose what they did. So much 106 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 2: has never come out about the Epstein story because it 107 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: doesn't play well in the media. But you know, you 108 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 2: should be aware of the listeners should be aware. There 109 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 2: was a woman who sent young women to him, who 110 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 2: gave a sworn statement to the FBI, who said Jeffrey 111 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 2: Epstein had one rule, no one under eighteen ever. And 112 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 2: so she told these people you better either have a 113 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 2: fake ID or be over eighteen, because he'll throw you 114 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 2: out if he doesn't think you're eighteen. Now, nobody who 115 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 2: believes the monster story about Jeffrey Epstein would ever believe that. 116 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 2: But this is a sworn statement, you know, under oath 117 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,679 Speaker 2: by this woman. So I don't think we've really seen 118 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 2: the full picture of Jeffrey Epstein. But listen, I don't 119 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 2: think these people have vulnerability. I was surprised when organizations 120 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 2: gave back his charitable donations. Quite frankly. I thought they 121 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 2: should have taken them and enjoyed them. And they were 122 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 2: and put them to good use. 123 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: So what do you on the question of the suicide. Clearly, 124 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: Epstein's brother says he does not believe that he committed suicide. 125 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 1: He believed that he was killed. FBI is saying conclusively 126 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 1: that he did commit suicide. Any thoughts that you have 127 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: on the interactions that you had with Epstein on that question. 128 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 2: Sure, absolutely, Listen, nobody knows for sure, but I've said 129 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 2: all along that I don't believe it was suicide for 130 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 2: two reasons. Primarily one anecdotically, I'd met with him nine 131 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 2: days before he died. He hired me to take over 132 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 2: his case. He also asked me to do some other 133 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 2: work for him, not related to not related to the case, 134 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,359 Speaker 2: that only had an impact going forward. The Friday before 135 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 2: he died on Saturday, the people around him told me 136 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 2: he was barking out orders to do the things that 137 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 2: he and I had discussed would need to be done 138 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 2: to go forward with the case. I said to him, 139 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 2: I would take over the case, but the understanding I 140 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 2: would have to meet with his current lawyers and either 141 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 2: they approved it or I would bring in my own team, 142 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 2: and I had already put together another team. All of 143 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 2: that was finding him. We arranged a fee agreement, and 144 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 2: so on. That's one anecdotally. Number two. Michael Boden, in 145 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 2: my view, is the top forensic medical examiner in the world. 146 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 2: He examined Jeffrey Epstein's body with the New York Medical Examiner. 147 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 2: During that independent examination, the medical examiner said to him 148 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 2: she could not this as an assistant, she could not 149 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 2: conclusively say what the cause of death was. Four days later, 150 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 2: they said suicide without any additional evidence. Boden says, in 151 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 2: all of the thousands and thousands of cases he's done, 152 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 2: he has never seen injuries like this consistent with suicide. Period. 153 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 3: We're talking to you. A former attorney for Jeffrey Epstein, 154 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 3: David shown. David, you are the son of an FBI agent. 155 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 3: I know he died when you were quite young, but 156 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 3: you are you're your father was an FBI agent. What 157 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 3: do you make of then the people who run the 158 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 3: FBI claiming the opposite and trying to Lea's evidence of 159 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 3: this footage of the jail cell showing allegedly no one 160 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 3: entering this door that they offer up as proof that 161 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 3: he did kill himself. 162 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm disappointed by it because I don't think they 163 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 2: can say with any level of certainty whether it was 164 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 2: suicide or not. And I don't like the idea of 165 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 2: putting their impromater on the idea conclusively that was suicide. Obviously. 166 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 2: You know, I'm a huge fan of the FBI. My 167 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 2: dad was one of my real heroes in the world. 168 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 2: I have all of his memorabilia. But I don't think 169 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 2: in this case that's fair. I think maybe they thought 170 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 2: there was some need for finality all of that. But 171 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 2: if Michael Bodden says otherwise, I take him over the oh, 172 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 2: the FBI on a forensic matter. 173 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, the question then, David is and I'm not asking 174 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: for a list of names per se. But then, if 175 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 1: you believe that he did not commit suicide, what's the 176 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: profile of the person you think that killed Jeffrey Epstein. 177 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: If he did not commit suicide, who would want him dead? 178 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 2: That's the puzzling part of it. I don't subscribe to 179 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 2: conspiracy theory, although many people did. He had a lot 180 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 2: of information and so on. Usually in this kind of situation, 181 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 2: it would be someone who wants to get credit for killing, 182 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 2: you know, a sex offender, that sort of thing, especially 183 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 2: a high profile person. That's the odd thing in this case, 184 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 2: no one has come forward for credit. You do know, 185 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 2: I'm sure though, that he was in prison. He was 186 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 2: locked up there at the MCC with a guy who 187 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 2: was a hitman for the Mexican mafia, allegedly former policeman, 188 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 2: huge guy. They moved that guy out and then they 189 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 2: moved him in with a druggie. Was very upsetting to him. 190 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 2: And two weeks before this there was an incident with 191 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 2: the first fellow he was in with in which they 192 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 2: called it an attempted suicide. It was not, but he 193 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 2: didn't want to get the guy in trouble anyway. The profile, 194 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 2: in my view, ought to be someone, you know, who 195 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:48,439 Speaker 2: really wanted the publicity from it. No one has taken 196 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 2: credit for it. So that's the oddity. That's what I 197 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 2: can answer. 198 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 3: That's one of the oddities. In addition to representing Jeffrey Epstein, 199 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 3: you also represented at a second impeachment trial form President 200 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 3: Donald Trump. His spokes and Carolyn Lovett, was asked about 201 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,719 Speaker 3: the FBI's announcement today as it relates to the Epstein case. 202 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 3: Here's what she had to say. Here's that interaction with 203 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 3: a reporter. 204 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 4: So the FBI looks at the circumstances surrounding the death 205 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 4: of Jeffrey Epstein. According to the report, this systematic review 206 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 4: revealed no incriminating client list. So what happened to the 207 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 4: Epstein client list that the Attorney General said she had 208 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 4: on her desk. 209 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 5: Well, I think if you go back and look at 210 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 5: what the Attorney General said in that interview, which was 211 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 5: on your network on. 212 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,319 Speaker 4: Fox News, go ahead, and Roberts said, DOJ may be 213 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 4: releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Will that really happen? 214 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 4: And she said, it's sitting on my desk right now 215 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 4: to review. 216 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Well, 217 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: that really happen. 218 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 3: It's sitting on my desk right now to review. 219 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 5: Yes, she was saying the entirety of all of the paperwork, 220 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 5: all of the paper in relation to Jeffrey Epstein's crimes. 221 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 5: That's what the Attorney General was referring to. And I'll 222 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 5: let her speak for but again, when it comes to 223 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 5: the FBI and the Department of Justice, they are more 224 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 5: than committed to ensuring that bad people are put behind bars. 225 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 3: Just your reaction to how you feel like the FBI 226 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 3: has handled all of this, including since Donald Trump's election 227 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 3: and the promises that were made and now the clear 228 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 3: shift in tone. 229 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 2: Right, Well, that's part of sort of a rush to 230 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 2: go to the media and so on. I think that 231 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 2: Karon Levitt's explanation is perfectly plausible. I do think the 232 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 2: Attorney General is referring to document they file Jeffrey Epstein 233 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 2: file that was on her desk she said to be reviewed. 234 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 2: There's no such thing. I don't believe there's any such 235 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 2: thing as a client list. And by the way, you 236 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 2: can be sure in this day and age, if there were, 237 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 2: it would have leaked out. You know the number of 238 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 2: FBI agents who searched his premises, people in the US 239 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 2: Attorney's office, including mister Comy's daughter who is on the 240 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,839 Speaker 2: related case. You can be sure that there would be 241 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 2: leaks about this client list and some names on it 242 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,079 Speaker 2: if there really were client lists. That's my view of things. 243 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: We're talking to David Shoon, who is an attorney for 244 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: Epstein when he was incarcerated, also has represented Donald Trump 245 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: in the impeachment hearings. David, and again, I'm not talking 246 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: about particular names here, but it just seems to me 247 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: that as you acknowledged Epstein had this let's say, very 248 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: destructive lifestyle, these relationships that he had with women, it 249 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 1: seems to me that based on the stuff that came 250 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: out from JP Morgan a more than a billion dollars 251 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,839 Speaker 1: went through that they said was related to human trafficking. 252 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: It's hard for me to believe that Epstein kind of 253 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: did this and kept it to himself, right, that none 254 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: of the friends that went to the island, no one 255 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: at all participated in this except for Epstein himself. So 256 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 1: that seems to me to raise the question. It wasn't 257 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: coercion necessarily, as you said, it doesn't have to be blackmail. 258 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: It could have just been you know, friends hanging out 259 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: of friends doing this stuff together. The problem that I 260 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: have with this case is it seems like you had 261 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: this massive amount of human trafficing that was taking place 262 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: just on this one billion dollar figure. You had Maxwell 263 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: go to jail, But there doesn't seem to have been 264 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: any other investigation, certainly not any other prosecutions of anybody 265 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 1: else that could have been involved in this prostitution slash 266 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: human trafficking. What's your thoughts on that? 267 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 2: Well, look, you're is a fair and important point, without 268 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 2: any question. Look, my personal belief is that many of 269 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 2: those wealthy people and so called prominent people engaged in 270 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 2: his activities with him at the various places, but there 271 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: may well not be a sufficient proof of it and 272 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 2: so on. You know, I spoke out the other day 273 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 2: and I don't talk about any sort of attorney client 274 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 2: privileged information, but I spoke out the other day when 275 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 2: mister Musk suggested that the reason records hadn't been produced 276 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 2: is because someone was covering up from mister Trump. I 277 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 2: can tell you unequivocally as I have said, that Jeffrey 278 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 2: Epstein had no information whatsoever about any nefarious activity with 279 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 2: Donald Trump, and I thought there was an important point 280 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 2: to make. That's what happens these rumors get out there. 281 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 2: I'm personally not one hundred percent satisfied with the JP 282 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,199 Speaker 2: Morgan figure that they can track that money to the 283 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 2: human trafficking and all that. That's a different question. You 284 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 2: ask an important question, why haven't there been any other investigations? 285 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 2: And you can be sure again miss Maxwell would have 286 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 2: spoken about other incidents that she was aware of, and 287 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 2: she would have been aware of them. So I don't 288 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 2: have the answer to that. 289 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 3: Well, we do know, and David Show, we appreciate your 290 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 3: time today. While the FBI is attempting to, I think 291 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 3: end the discussion with their memo yesterday. The fact that 292 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 3: we are talking about as much as we are a 293 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 3: lot of other people are talking about it suggests that 294 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 3: the opposite is true. So David showan thank you for 295 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 3: your time. He's Peter Schweizer. I'm Eric Eggers. We host 296 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 3: the podcast called The Drill Down. You can find at 297 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 3: the drill down dot com. We'll be back with more 298 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 3: Sean Handy Show right after this. 299 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: I'm Peter Schweizer. This is Eric Eggers. We are filling 300 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: in for the Sean Hannity Show today. We want you 301 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: to join the car Conversation one in eight hundred nine 302 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: four one seven, three two six So interesting. The Epstein 303 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: bombshell that came out the conversation that we just had 304 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: with David shown here's the problem. One of the problems 305 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: people don't trust what the government has to say, even 306 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: if it is people that they are familiar and comfortable with, 307 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: like Cash Battel or like Panbonni. They don't trust the 308 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: bowels of government. And one of the reasons, of course, 309 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: is we had another revelation break right before the July 310 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: fourth holiday, and that was this CIA assessment about Russia 311 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: Gate and the fact that they were simply pushing product 312 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: that they did not have confidence in. They claimed that 313 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: it was high confidence that they had all this evidence 314 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: that it was Russia collusion, when they admitted that they 315 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: only had one source and low confidence in it. That's 316 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: the problem, Peter Schweizer, that is Eric Eggers. We are 317 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: filling in for Sean today. We have a podcast called 318 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: The Drill Down. Please consider subscribing to it. We want 319 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: you to join the conversation. We're going to get a 320 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: little political here now right. We talked about the tragedy 321 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: in Texas and the heroic efforts of the Coastguard. We've 322 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: talked about the attempted killing of ICE agents. We've talked 323 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: about the Jeffrey Epstein ruling from the DOJ and the FBI. 324 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: Let's talk about the big, beautiful bill. It passed barely 325 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: passed by a couple of votes in the House. It 326 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: passed in the Senate because Vice President J. D. Vance 327 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: had to come in and cast the deciding vote. But 328 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: it was signed by President Trump, and it's very interesting 329 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: the tensions that have been created. We want to talk 330 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: about the details of the bill, but also some of 331 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: the reaction the Democrats is kind of predictable. But you 332 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: also have Elon Musk out there wanting to start the 333 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: America Party. 334 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll talk about Elon Musk, who's been steadfastly opposed 335 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 3: to this bill, and we'll talk about his desire to 336 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 3: create the America Party. Would love to hear your perspective 337 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 3: on it. Give us a call. One eight hundred nine 338 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 3: four one seven three two six that's nine four one Sean. 339 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 3: Do you support the passage of the bill as in 340 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 3: contrast with Elon Musk? I think there's several fascinating things 341 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 3: about the past of this bill. Obviously a key tenant 342 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 3: of the Trump administration. You know, it's been a massive priority. 343 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 3: They did a whole bill signing ceremony on the fourth 344 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 3: of July. They said they wanted to do that. There 345 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 3: was and it's a credit to him and his political 346 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 3: ability they were able to get it done by these 347 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 3: narrow margins. You also, by the way, I think have 348 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 3: to give Donald Trump credit just as a branding expert. 349 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 3: We were talking about this a little bit earlier. What 350 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:35,199 Speaker 3: was the signature policy accomplishment of the Obama administration. 351 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: The Affordable Care Act, the Obamacare. 352 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, they called it the Affordable Care Act. No one 353 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 3: calls it that. We all call it Obamacare, and not 354 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 3: necessarily in a positive way. Under Joe Biden, his signature 355 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 3: policy achievement. 356 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: Was what the Inflation Reduction Act. 357 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 3: Right again, they try to do that, but we call 358 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 3: it the Green New Deal, the Green New scam. 359 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: Right. 360 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 3: But Donald Trump just calling it the one big beautiful Bill, 361 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 3: like everyone calls it that. 362 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: I mean, what is that? What the name of a 363 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: bill is? 364 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 2: Now? 365 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: I know it doesn't tell you anything about it's just 366 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: a big beautiful bill. I actually looked on the congressional 367 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: record and that is literally the name of the piece 368 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: of legislation. This is not shorthand, that's literally the name 369 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: of the bill. So you go on CNBC, You're going 370 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: on these news outlets. They are talking about the big 371 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: Beautiful Bill. 372 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 3: So it's sort of just genius that Trump has gotten 373 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 3: news anchors and everyone to call this thing, which they 374 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 3: oppose in many respects, the big beautiful bill. It is big, 375 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 3: and according to depend upon your perspective, it is beautiful. 376 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:39,400 Speaker 3: It extends the tax cuts, It's got a massive increase 377 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 3: in funding for ice and for immigration enforcement. That I 378 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 3: think is the key for many of its supporters. Right, 379 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 3: They say, the number one domestic priority continues to be 380 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 3: enforcing immigration laws in this country and deporting people who 381 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 3: shouldn't be here. This bill gives people funding to do that. 382 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 3: It also, then, I think, tries to enact some of 383 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 3: the efforts of DOGE bringing more security and credibility to 384 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 3: some of these entitlement programs. What some people will tell 385 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 3: you are cuts to Medicaid and cuts to SNAP are 386 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 3: in fact just increases in work requirements or more paperwork requirements, 387 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 3: more validity to make sure that the people that are 388 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 3: receiving these benefits should be receiving the benefits. One thing 389 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 3: I very much like you know you and I have 390 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 3: spent some time talking about the SNAP program, EBT, the 391 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 3: food stamps and how much fraud is there. A big 392 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 3: deal now is that states may have to start in 393 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 3: twenty twenty eight paying a portion of the food benefit costs. 394 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 3: Previously states have only paid administrative costs. I'll tell you 395 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 3: why that's a big deal, because right now, this is 396 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 3: just how much Donald Trump has changed the conversation about 397 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 3: entitlements and eradicating waste, fraud and abuse in those entitlement programs. 398 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,640 Speaker 3: The current setup, or at least before Donald Trump became president, 399 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 3: the federal government awarded states who claim to have the 400 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 3: lowest air rate in the administration of these foodstamp programs. 401 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 3: So guess what states were then incentivized to do not 402 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,360 Speaker 3: report high error rates and there's been a lot of. 403 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: Which is what fraud is regarded as an error. 404 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 3: Rate now absolutely so the states with the most fraud 405 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 3: would pretend it wasn't very much fraudulent, and they got 406 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 3: paid by the federal government for doing so. We now 407 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 3: are trying to reward states and say, no, you guys 408 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 3: have to expose root out the fraud, and you guys 409 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 3: are going to have to pick up a part of 410 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 3: the check on this. So you renounce centivized to make 411 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 3: sure your programs are well run. 412 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, here's the bottom line question on all 413 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 1: of these programs, whether it's Medicare or Medicaid or Social Security, 414 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: you have to keep them viable, right, You have to 415 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: keep them viable. And the problem with Medicaid is you 416 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: had millions of illegal immigrants that ended up on Medicaid 417 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: program States like California sign them up because they wanted 418 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: to take those federal dollars. What this bill basically says 419 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 1: is no, if states want to have illegal migrants on 420 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: their medicaid roles, they have to pay for them themselves. 421 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 1: The second thing that they do with medicaid is say, look, 422 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: if you're able bodied, that's you know, determined by a 423 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 1: medical doctor. If you are able bodied, you either have 424 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: to work eighty hours a week, eighty hours a month, yeah, 425 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 1: eighty hours a month, sorry, and that that's two weeks 426 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: out of the month. Or if you can't find a job, 427 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: or you're not looking for a job, maybe you're in 428 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: a situation where you can't have one, you have to 429 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 1: at least volunteer. The point is you have to do 430 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: something constructive if you're sitting around playing video games, if 431 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: you're sitting around on drugs and expecting people to just 432 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: subsidize you. That's how we got to the point where 433 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 1: where this program is so expensive and it's not sustainable. 434 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: So these are really common sense remedies that are being pushed, 435 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: and of course what Democrats are saying is no, they're 436 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: cutting everybody's program, which is ridiculous. 437 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 3: And you know, there's this truism that the federal government 438 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 3: programs never get smaller, and unfortunately that's continued to be true. 439 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,479 Speaker 3: We saw massive increase in these spending programs during COVID, 440 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 3: and it took years, even after the pandemic ended, for 441 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 3: some of these programs to start to come back down. 442 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 3: And now you're hearing the screams and the worst case scenarios. 443 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 3: You know, this is always the case with Donald Trump. 444 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 3: Doesn't matter what he does, we're presented with the worst 445 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 3: case scenario. And the thing with Donald Trump is those 446 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 3: worst case scenarios never proved to be true. We didn't 447 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 3: invade Iran. We're able to just go after them and 448 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 3: take out the nuclear capacity. We're able to you know, 449 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 3: we didn't start world a civil war here by enforcing immigration, 450 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 3: despite the best efforts of Gavin News and Karen Bass, right, 451 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,360 Speaker 3: And so now it's like, oh, well, you're gonna you're 452 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 3: gonna kill people. You heard Larry Summer suggests that one 453 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 3: hundred thousand people will die over the next ten years 454 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,959 Speaker 3: because of this bill. By the way, those work requirements 455 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,479 Speaker 3: can be waived if state unemployment goes above ten percent. 456 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 3: Do you know what state has the high Do you 457 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 3: know what the highest unemployment rate is of any state? 458 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 1: Now, California. 459 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 3: It's California's close, But even the highest unemployment rates right 460 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 3: now are still in the fives. It's actually Washington, d C. 461 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 3: Interesting highest. California is like the fifth highest unmployment rate. 462 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 3: But so the point is, these work requirements are going 463 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 3: to be implemented because unemployment is not anywhere near where 464 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 3: you'd be exempted from it. So yeah, if you are 465 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 3: someone who currently is receiving these benefits, you will have 466 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 3: to prove that you are attempting to do something to 467 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 3: contribute to society. 468 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, and why is that unreasonable? I don't understand. We 469 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 1: know why it's being done for political reasons, but it's 470 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 1: really an eminently responsible reform that ought to be supported 471 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: by the way it used to be supported by Democrats. 472 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: It was after all, Bill Clinton who back in nineteen 473 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: ninety six set up a work requirement to be on 474 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: welfare to receive food stamps. So this used to be 475 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: the position of at least some Democrats. 476 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 3: And that's just one portion of the overall big beautiful 477 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 3: bill structure. It's attempting to do three things as we 478 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 3: understand it, right, They're trying to, okay, lower taxes for 479 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 3: many individuals and so not, in addition to kind of 480 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 3: making the tax that's from twenty seventeen, continue them in place. 481 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 3: They lower to stay tax, they have lower tax on 482 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 3: a number of other things, including corporations. So they wanted 483 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 3: to do that. They wanted to cut some spending, which 484 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 3: they're trying to do with getting rid of the waste, 485 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 3: the fraud and abuse, which is what they're attempting to 486 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 3: address in these financial programs here with the entitlements, and 487 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 3: then with the tariffs, which we're expecting more news on 488 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 3: that any day. They're a tempting to bring in new revenue. 489 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 3: So like, those are the three streams they're trying to 490 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,439 Speaker 3: do at one time, which they think will ultimately benefit 491 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:25,919 Speaker 3: the economy. 492 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's all going to come down to revenue 493 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 1: and growth, right because all these estimates are ported by 494 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 1: the Congressional Budget Office, they assume a low level of growth. Oh, 495 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: this is going to explode the debt. The fact of 496 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,919 Speaker 1: the matter is if you have a high growth, it 497 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: brings in large amounts of revenue. That's really going to 498 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,919 Speaker 1: help on the debt and on the deficit. And here's 499 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: the interesting political jiu jitsu that's going on here. So 500 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: you have, on the one hand, Donald Trump's big, beautiful 501 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: bill comes and barely passes, but it does and he 502 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: signs it. It's got all these good things in it. 503 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: You have Democrats who say, oh, the cuts are horrific, 504 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: it's going to kill all these people, and these tax 505 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,400 Speaker 1: cuts are responsible. And then you have Elon Musk and 506 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,479 Speaker 1: some members of the House of Representatives and in the 507 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,719 Speaker 1: Senate who said the cuts don't go far enough. In 508 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: other words, Trump didn't go far enough in this direction. 509 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: So you have these three sort of points of politics. 510 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: And Elon Musk has said he apparently took a survey 511 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: of his followers on Twitter x and they came out 512 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: i think two to one saying they would support the 513 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 1: formation of a third political party. And this is all 514 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: based Musk says on the fact that the cuts did 515 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: not go far enough. He argues that joj was disrespected, 516 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: that all the efforts they took in doage to slash 517 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: all of this waste and abuse has now been gutted 518 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: by this bill. 519 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's interesting to see people who would 520 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 3: support the idea of a third party. Yet, like in concept, 521 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 3: I could see you being into it. But how many 522 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 3: of the people who support Elon Musks creation of a 523 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 3: third party would support that party being even more aggressive 524 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 3: in terms of cutting government programs and entitlements. I suspect 525 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 3: not very many of your pro cutting government spending. You're 526 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 3: probably much more conservative, And I wonder I don't see 527 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 3: a space in which a third political party is more conservative, 528 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 3: although obviously Republicans haven't been great in terms of fiscal management. 529 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 3: But you know, you get so much criticism, so much pushback, 530 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 3: and it doesn't make sense. It's actually hypocritical, or at 531 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 3: least it's contradictory because on the one hand, people say 532 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,880 Speaker 3: that this bill explodes the deficit, while at the same 533 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 3: time people say the bill cuts medicaid for people who 534 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 3: rely on it. You kind of can't say both. 535 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: Right, right, And I would say to Elon Musk, there 536 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: already is a third political party. It's called the Libertarian Party. 537 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 1: They want to slash government extensively. But here's the thing. 538 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: I mean, Elon Musk says it's over principle if it's overcuts. 539 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: But let's keep in mind the bill, the Big Beautiful Bill, 540 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: did a couple of things that are not great for 541 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: Elon Musk's businesses and not great for his bottom line. So, 542 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: for example, one of the things in the bill is 543 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: after September thirty, if it's ending the seventy five hundred 544 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: dollars tax credit for evs for electric vehicles. Tesla produces 545 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: large amounts of electric vehicles. The bill immediately scraps the 546 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:19,360 Speaker 1: highly profitable zero emission credits. Other automakers would buy these 547 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 1: credits from Tesla so they could meet the admission requirement, sorry, 548 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 1: the emission requirements from the federal government. In the first 549 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: quarter of this year. Tesla would have actually lost money 550 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 1: except for the fact that they were able to get these, 551 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 1: you know, monetize these credits. And then finally the issue 552 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: of tarifts. Tariffs are going to dramatically increase the cost 553 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: for the Chinese batteries that Tesla actually uses. So maybe 554 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: it's partly principle, but there's no question in my mind 555 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: that he cannot be happy with some of the details 556 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: of this bill and how it's going to affect his 557 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: bottom line. 558 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 3: So you're keeping score at home. Elon Musk is against 559 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 3: the passage of the Big Beautiful Bill. The Big Beautiful 560 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 3: Bill passes. You just mentioned three things in that bill, 561 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,640 Speaker 3: it will be very bad for Elon Musk. The bill passes, 562 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 3: he says, he's going to start his own political party. 563 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:07,439 Speaker 3: That's essentially it. 564 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's got Mark Cuban and Anthony Scarmucci are 565 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: two of the people who've said they're interested in joining 566 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: this political party. It's interesting, by the way, he announced 567 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: this new political party and then people put up documents 568 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: from the Federal Election Commission saying that the party had 569 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: been formed. They were fake. Elon Musk said, no papers 570 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: have been filed, so sounds maybe like a little bit 571 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 1: of a paper tiger. The other thing that's happened is 572 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: Tesla stock is down eight percent with the announcement of 573 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: this new political party. So maybe the people that have 574 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 1: invested in his business are a little tired of the 575 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: politics for Melon, and they're probably saying, get back to 576 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: work and build those great businesses that you built in 577 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: the past instead of trying to change the party system 578 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: in the United States. 579 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 3: It's you know, just like Donald Trump, it's probably impossible 580 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 3: and not fair to try to put Elon Musk into 581 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 3: a box. You know, not everybody fits as neatly into 582 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 3: a box as something like oh, I don't know, mister mom. 583 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 3: Donnie's race. As we found out over the weekend with 584 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 3: the new York Times coverage is the African American. We're 585 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 3: gonna talk about the New York mayor race, this push 586 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 3: to make Democrats more socialists, what it means for the 587 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 3: future of Democratic Party. We've got a lot more to 588 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 3: get into in the Shawan Handy program. He's Peter Schweizer. 589 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 3: I'm Eric Eggers. We host a podcast called The Drill Down, 590 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 3: which you can find at the drill down dot com. 591 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 3: We've backed with more Sean Handy. Right after this. Eric 592 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 3: Eggers and Peter Schweitzer are filling in for Shawan Handy. 593 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 3: We'd love to have you join our conversation. It's one 594 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 3: eight hundred and nine for one, seven three six nine 595 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 3: for one Shawn. We're gonna talk about the pending disaster 596 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 3: about to impact New York City. That is the Zoron 597 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 3: Mom Donnie mayoral campaign and on the other side of 598 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 3: this break. But first, we've got some interesting news about 599 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 3: one of the people connected to one of the people, 600 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 3: Zoron Mam Donnie beat former aide to former Governor Andrew Cuomo. 601 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 3: Peter Schweizer is a Chinese agent. 602 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, this is Linda Son. She's charged by the 603 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: Department of Justice for acting as an unregistered agent for 604 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: the Chinese government. That was a case filed a couple 605 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: of months ago. They are now accusing her just recently, 606 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: alleging that she directed New York government contracts worth approximately 607 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: thirty five million dollars to Chinese companies controlled by her 608 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: husband and second cousin in exchange for large kickbacks. The 609 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: question was she worked for the State of New York. 610 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: Her husband was an unsuccessful businessman, but they had a 611 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: four million dollar house on Long Island, a two million 612 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: dollar condo in Hawaii, and a ferrari and they couldn't 613 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: figure out how they made it. This is the explanation. Son, 614 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: through an attorney, is denying the charge. But this happened 615 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: during COVID, remember when there was a scramble for PPE supplies. 616 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: Linda's son now has been charged with taking kickbacks in 617 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: addition to acting as an agent for the Chinese government. 618 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 3: Linda Sun, by the way, was the chief Diversity officer 619 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 3: for Governor Quovo's office. And what I like is that 620 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 3: when the New York Office was trying to get PPE 621 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 3: equipment from China, they decided to reach out via Linda Sun. 622 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to pick the Chinese aide. She's the 623 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: one to do it. Uh So, in the next hour 624 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: we are going to talk about the political tsunami about 625 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: to hit New York. Join the Conversation one eight hundred 626 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: nine four one seven, three, two six