WEBVTT - S1: E10 – Who Killed Carol? Part 2  

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<v Speaker 1>Cherry Hill, New Jersey. Police officer Richard Bombaar investigated the

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety four murder of Carol Newlander. She was the

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<v Speaker 1>wife of esteemed Rabbi Fred Newlander, and in.

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<v Speaker 2>Going through the case, it came across a photograph and

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<v Speaker 2>it was Fred and and Jenoff standing with their arms

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<v Speaker 2>around each other.

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<v Speaker 1>Len Jenoff was a private investigator the rabbi hired to

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<v Speaker 1>find his wife's.

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<v Speaker 2>Murderer after Carol's death. He actually married len Jenoff in

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<v Speaker 2>the same room that Carol was murdered in and their

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<v Speaker 2>wedding pictures of them arm in arm Fred and Jenoff

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<v Speaker 2>right where Carol was laying.

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<v Speaker 3>When she was murdered.

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<v Speaker 1>How could Rabbi Newlander celebrate marriage in the same room

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<v Speaker 1>his wife was murdered and why.

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<v Speaker 2>It was really bizarre.

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<v Speaker 1>We're in Cherry Hill, New Jersey today for part two

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<v Speaker 1>of Who Killed Carol? I'm swung Glass and this is

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<v Speaker 1>American homicide. And just a note that this episode contained

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<v Speaker 1>some graphic content. Please take care while listening. Cherry Hill

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<v Speaker 1>lives up to its name. Every April. That's when a

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<v Speaker 1>two mile stretch of road through the town transforms into

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<v Speaker 1>a sea of pink and white as the cherry blossoms bloom.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a nice area to live in, nice area to

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<v Speaker 2>raise your family.

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<v Speaker 1>Richard Bumbear worked as a Cherry Hill police officer in

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<v Speaker 1>the nineties. Back then and even today, Cherry Hill was

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<v Speaker 1>your quintessential middle class suburb with sprawling subdivisions and a

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<v Speaker 1>huge shopping mall.

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<v Speaker 2>Was considered a safetown to live in when we wouldn't

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<v Speaker 2>lock your doors.

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<v Speaker 1>So you can imagine their shock following the nineteen ninety

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<v Speaker 1>four murder of Carol Newlander.

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<v Speaker 2>The community was just terrified. They didn't know what happened.

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<v Speaker 2>If it was a random act of violence and somebody

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<v Speaker 2>tried to rob Carol and to take her money and

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<v Speaker 2>kill her, to whether it was thought out or planned.

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<v Speaker 1>It was Cherry Hill's first homicide in years, and the victim,

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<v Speaker 1>Carol Newlander, was a respected mother of three who ran

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<v Speaker 1>a popular bakery, which is why she often had a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of cash on her She and her husband, Rabbi

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<v Speaker 1>Fred Newlander, were like royalty in South Jersey.

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<v Speaker 2>No one in a million years thought that Fred Newlander,

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<v Speaker 2>a prominent rabbi in the community at the time, was

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<v Speaker 2>a suspect or had any involvement with it.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely no one could make sense of why Rabbi Newlander

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<v Speaker 1>would officiate a wedding in the very spot where his

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<v Speaker 1>wife was murdered.

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<v Speaker 2>When Fred Newlander became person of interest, it was devastating

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<v Speaker 2>to the community. People started questioning their religion, people started

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<v Speaker 2>questioning everything about them, and it was horrible, absolutely horrible.

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<v Speaker 1>Lenn Jennoff's wedding happened in nineteen ninety seven, about three

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<v Speaker 1>years after Carol's murder, and if that wasn't disturbing enough,

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<v Speaker 1>their reception inside the Newlanders home featured a cake from

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<v Speaker 1>Classic Cakes, the bakery Carol had founded.

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<v Speaker 2>Even if you had no involvement at all, none at all,

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<v Speaker 2>Not only are you going to probably sell the house

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<v Speaker 2>and get out of it, but you're not going to

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<v Speaker 2>marry somebody and take pictures right where your wife was

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<v Speaker 2>laying when she was murdering.

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<v Speaker 4>Pretty tasteless.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, it is tasteless and suspicious. The rabbi was never

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<v Speaker 1>named a suspect, but also never cleared he had an alibi,

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<v Speaker 1>but it was overshadowed by news of his multiple affairs,

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<v Speaker 1>And then there was a controversial polygraph test.

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<v Speaker 5>Sometimes after murder. Fred's lawyer took him from Cherry Hill

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<v Speaker 5>down to Virginia to have a lie detect their testimony.

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<v Speaker 1>Arthur Magida wrote a book about the new Lander murder.

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<v Speaker 5>Fred was asked if he killed Carol.

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<v Speaker 4>The needles on the.

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<v Speaker 5>Machine were fine, nothing etmal. Fred was asked if he

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<v Speaker 5>had anything to do with Carroll's murder. At that point,

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<v Speaker 5>the needles went crazy and waivered back and forth.

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<v Speaker 1>The rabbi's lawyer said Fred was under a great deal

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<v Speaker 1>of stress at the time and was on medication.

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<v Speaker 5>Polygraph experts have said that makes no difference. Either you're

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<v Speaker 5>telling the truth or you're not telling the truth.

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<v Speaker 1>About a month after Lenjenov's wedding inside the Newlanders home,

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<v Speaker 1>prosecutors made a curious move. They impaneled an investigative grand

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<v Speaker 1>jury to see if there was enough evidence to charge

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<v Speaker 1>Rabbi Newlander. More than a dozen witnesses were called to testify,

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<v Speaker 1>including his children, the rabbi's mistress, Elaine Cencini, and Lenjenoff.

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<v Speaker 1>The rabbi was never called to testify, and while this

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<v Speaker 1>was going on, he told reporters he had nothing to

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<v Speaker 1>do with Carol's murder.

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<v Speaker 5>He invited a woman, I think from the Philadelphia magazine

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<v Speaker 5>and to his home, and his first words to her were, Yes,

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<v Speaker 5>I'm Fred Nolander. I'm the man you love to hate.

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<v Speaker 1>The grand jury met for nearly a year before things

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<v Speaker 1>for the self described man you love to hate took

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<v Speaker 1>a drastic turn. Early one morning, the police performed a

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<v Speaker 1>traffic stop of Rabbi Newlander just a few blocks from

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<v Speaker 1>his home. They ordered him out of his car, and

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<v Speaker 1>then they handcuffed him and placed him under arrest. They

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<v Speaker 1>charged him with orchestrating the murder of his wife.

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<v Speaker 5>Everybody was stunned. How could this possibly be?

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<v Speaker 1>The prosecutor claimed Rabbi Newlander wanted so desperately out of

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<v Speaker 1>his marriage that he hired a hit man to kill

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<v Speaker 1>his wife so that he could continue his affair with

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<v Speaker 1>his mistress, Elaine Sansini. The prosecutor did not identify who

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<v Speaker 1>the hit man was.

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<v Speaker 5>When there's a murder and there's a husband, and as

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<v Speaker 5>the police would very quickly discovered, this was a very

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<v Speaker 5>unfaithful husband to the husband who automatically becomes a suspect

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<v Speaker 5>until vindicated.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not as if the Jewish religion forbids divorce. There

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<v Speaker 1>are plenty of divorced rabbis Rabbi Newlander said, that's why

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<v Speaker 1>this theory did not make any sense. He again denied

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<v Speaker 1>the charges, and his private detective, Len Jenoff, defended him

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<v Speaker 1>to reporters.

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<v Speaker 6>I stole believe that Mike find has had absolutely nothing

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<v Speaker 6>to do with the horrendous murder of his wife.

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<v Speaker 1>Len Jenoff defended the Rabbi throughout his investigation, and while

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<v Speaker 1>the Rabbi awaited his trial, Len sort of became the

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<v Speaker 1>rabbi spokesperson.

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<v Speaker 7>I think Ben wanted to be a more important person

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<v Speaker 7>than he was.

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<v Speaker 1>Frank Hartman was len Jenoff's attorney.

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<v Speaker 7>That was a very very important thing in leader of

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<v Speaker 7>Jenoff's life. The Rabbi whenever I saw him, he always

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<v Speaker 7>wanted to talk to me about the Rabbi.

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<v Speaker 1>Len and the Rabbi had a curious relationship. It was

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<v Speaker 1>almost like father and son, and Len so desperately wanted

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<v Speaker 1>the Rabbi's approval and attention.

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<v Speaker 7>He wanted to please the Rabbi. He was very perturbed

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<v Speaker 7>about the fact that he had never been bar misfited.

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<v Speaker 7>The Rabbi told him that that was not important. If

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<v Speaker 7>it was really important to him to have a private

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<v Speaker 7>ceremony for him, and he encouraged the rabbi, and he

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<v Speaker 7>encouraged him, which is how I think he ultimately became

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<v Speaker 7>so dependent upon the rabbi.

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<v Speaker 1>For the next eighteen months, Lent, the former FBI and

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<v Speaker 1>CIA agent, continued his own investigation to help clear the rabbi.

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<v Speaker 1>He even met with a local reporter to exchange notes

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<v Speaker 1>and discuss the case.

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<v Speaker 7>And she managed to worm her way into his confidence,

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<v Speaker 7>mostly because she was trying to get information about the rabbi.

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<v Speaker 1>In the spring of two thousand, six years after the murder,

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<v Speaker 1>len Jenoff called this reporter with a scoop. They later

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<v Speaker 1>met at a Jersey diner and were joined by two

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<v Speaker 1>investigators working the case. Everyone went into this meeting not

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<v Speaker 1>knowing what to expect. To picture this four people sitting

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<v Speaker 1>in the back of a New Jersey diner, drinking coffee

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<v Speaker 1>after coffee and chainsmoking cigarettes, waiting to hear a scoop

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<v Speaker 1>on an unsolved murder investigation, and what happened in the

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<v Speaker 1>end was the absolute last thing anyone expected. Len Jenoff,

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<v Speaker 1>the private investigator Rabbi Newlander, hired to find his wife's killer,

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<v Speaker 1>confessed to killing Carol Newlander. Glenn said he was paid

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<v Speaker 1>thirty thousand dollars to kill Carroll and the person who

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<v Speaker 1>hired him to do it, Rabbi Fred Newlander.

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<v Speaker 7>I think this murder weighed heavily on his conscience, and

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<v Speaker 7>I think he wanted to unburden himself. Glenn did it

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<v Speaker 7>for the Rabbi. I don't there's any doubt about that.

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<v Speaker 7>Lenn was completely under the sway of the Rabbi. Didn't

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<v Speaker 7>shock me to find that he was willing to consider

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<v Speaker 7>doing something as serious as burger. Len wanted to be important,

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<v Speaker 7>and the Rabbi's attention made him feel important. I think

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<v Speaker 7>that whenever the Rabbi made up his mind that he

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<v Speaker 7>wanted someone to commit a burr for him, this was

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<v Speaker 7>a person who was certainly among the nominees because the

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<v Speaker 7>Rabbi could exercise influence of him in so many different ways.

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<v Speaker 1>The plan was for Len went off to kill Carol,

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<v Speaker 1>but Len brought an accomplice.

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<v Speaker 7>Glenn brought a friend along with him, a young man

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<v Speaker 7>who was I think mentally challenged. Well.

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<v Speaker 1>That young man was his roommate, Paul Michael Daniels, who

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<v Speaker 1>suffered from drug addiction and schizophrenia.

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<v Speaker 7>The young man struck her with a piece of pipe

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<v Speaker 7>and said to him, you have to do this too,

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<v Speaker 7>It's not just me. So that's when len actually struck

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<v Speaker 7>a blow to the lady. And then they realized their

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<v Speaker 7>pursh was there and that she had considerable money in

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<v Speaker 7>it because it was the day's proceeds from her bakery shop.

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<v Speaker 7>So to make it look like it was a robbery,

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<v Speaker 7>they took the money and left.

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<v Speaker 1>So how did they even get into the house. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>it turns out Carol opened the front door. Len Jenoff

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<v Speaker 1>had showed up at the house with an envelope for

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<v Speaker 1>her husband. Jenoff was actually there to kill her, but

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<v Speaker 1>he couldn't find her purse, and the plan was to

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<v Speaker 1>make it look like a robbery gone wrong, so he

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<v Speaker 1>pretended to use the bathroom and then he left. Two

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<v Speaker 1>weeks later, he returned with his accomplice and claimed he

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<v Speaker 1>killed Carol.

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<v Speaker 7>They had a very good case against the rabbi and

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<v Speaker 7>that he was in a lot of trouble.

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<v Speaker 1>Even with len Jenov's confession, Rabbi Newlander denied being involved

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<v Speaker 1>with the murder.

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<v Speaker 7>The defensive the rabbi was that, oh no, he did

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<v Speaker 7>this on his own. He's only trying to incriminate me.

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<v Speaker 7>But nevertheless he did it and Generally speaking, in the

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<v Speaker 7>law of the person who hire someone for murderer is

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<v Speaker 7>more culpable than the actual murderer.

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<v Speaker 1>In the summer of two thousand, Lenjenov and his roommate

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<v Speaker 1>pled guilty to aggravated manslaughter, and they made a deal

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<v Speaker 1>with prosecutors to testify against the rabbi in exchange for

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<v Speaker 1>a lighter sentence.

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<v Speaker 7>This is the person who could really the case down

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<v Speaker 7>and feel in it dots, as they say.

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<v Speaker 1>Len Jenoff would be the prosecution's star witness against Rabbi Newlander.

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<v Speaker 1>The former CIA and FBI agent was about to embark

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<v Speaker 1>on his toughest assignment yet, after years of denying he

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<v Speaker 1>had anything to do with his wife's murder, a grand

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<v Speaker 1>jury indicted Rabbi Fred Newlander for conspiracy to commit murder.

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<v Speaker 1>Those charges grew to capital murder following the confession of

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<v Speaker 1>his former private eye, Lenjenoff.

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<v Speaker 4>At the time, he was facing the death penalty.

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<v Speaker 1>Jeff Zucker was one of Rabbi Newlander's attorneys.

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<v Speaker 4>You can't have any more pressure than that put on you.

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<v Speaker 1>When the trial opened in late two thousand and one,

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<v Speaker 1>prosecutor James Lynch told the jury that the adulterous Rabbi

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<v Speaker 1>wanted Carol murdered so he could continue to be with

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<v Speaker 1>his mistress.

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<v Speaker 8>This is a man overwhelmed by lust, creed, arrogance, and betrayal,

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<v Speaker 8>and as a result of those qualities and those characteristics,

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<v Speaker 8>he involved himself in the murder of his wife. He

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<v Speaker 8>planned it, he plotted it, he paid money for it

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<v Speaker 8>to be carried out.

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<v Speaker 1>The Rabbi's defense denied that motion.

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<v Speaker 4>He could have gotten a divorce. It would be a

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<v Speaker 4>huge jump from wanting to leave one's wife to becoming

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<v Speaker 4>a murderer.

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<v Speaker 1>Jerors first heard about the rabbis years of adultery. One

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<v Speaker 1>congregant from of Coursia Lom testified that she and the

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<v Speaker 1>rabbi slept together for months. In fact, their affair overlapped

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<v Speaker 1>with the Rabbi's affair with Elaine Censini.

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<v Speaker 4>Elaine Sensini, she was a radio personality who had an

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<v Speaker 4>affair with Rabbi Newlander.

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<v Speaker 9>We started seeing each other, I would say every two

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<v Speaker 9>to three weeks in the beginning, and after that we

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<v Speaker 9>saw each other just about every day.

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<v Speaker 1>Elaine talked about her personal life on the radio, but

0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:16.840
<v Speaker 1>that didn't compare to sharing those intimate details on the

0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:17.680
<v Speaker 1>witness stand.

0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:23.200
<v Speaker 9>We had the relations in his office. He told me

0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:27.920
<v Speaker 9>that I was the most special woman that he had

0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:28.480
<v Speaker 9>ever met.

0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:32.640
<v Speaker 1>The Rabbi was certainly a smooth operator and manipulator. He

0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:36.280
<v Speaker 1>shared a dream with Elaine about how violence was coming

0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:37.160
<v Speaker 1>Carol's way.

0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:40.600
<v Speaker 9>There was one conversation where he said to me that

0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:46.080
<v Speaker 9>he just wished that she were gone, puff gone, and

0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:47.840
<v Speaker 9>I wish her car would go into the river.

0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:52.600
<v Speaker 1>After months of being the other woman, Elaine decided in

0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:55.560
<v Speaker 1>the summer of nineteen ninety four that she wanted more

0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:56.680
<v Speaker 1>or no more.

0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.600
<v Speaker 9>I said, Fred, I don't want to see you after December.

0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:04.600
<v Speaker 9>I want to start my new life January first, nineteen

0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:09.320
<v Speaker 9>ninety five, and he would say, please, you know, hang in.

0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:11.600
<v Speaker 10>Trust me.

0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:13.880
<v Speaker 9>We're going to be together by your birthday.

0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:18.600
<v Speaker 1>Elaine's birthday was in December and Carol Newlander was murdered

0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:19.600
<v Speaker 1>the month before.

0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:22.840
<v Speaker 9>And what I said was, whatever you decide is fine.

0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:24.800
<v Speaker 9>I support you one hundred and fifty percent.

0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:29.280
<v Speaker 1>Elaine and the Rabbi slept together nearly every day, including

0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:33.880
<v Speaker 1>the day Carol was murdered. That night, Elaine was asleep

0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:38.120
<v Speaker 1>by eight pm and learned of Carol's murder the following morning.

0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.360
<v Speaker 9>He called me at work, and he said that he

0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:43.960
<v Speaker 9>was all right, that he was at the police station

0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.520
<v Speaker 9>all night, and that Carol had been killed, and something

0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:50.520
<v Speaker 9>about a burglary. And he just asked me if I

0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:55.280
<v Speaker 9>was frightened, and I said no, you know, friend, of what?

0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:57.840
<v Speaker 9>And he said, are you frightened of anything? And I

0:15:57.880 --> 0:15:58.240
<v Speaker 9>said no.

0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.720
<v Speaker 1>It was a strange conversation. Still, Elaine and the Rabbi

0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:06.320
<v Speaker 1>slept together a few more times after Carol's death, until

0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:10.440
<v Speaker 1>she asked him to stop contacting her. Instead, he sent

0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:13.840
<v Speaker 1>her cards and letters. Some of those were used as

0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:15.000
<v Speaker 1>evidence in the trial.

0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:19.120
<v Speaker 9>Elaine, what you and I discovered and have comes once

0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:23.280
<v Speaker 9>in a lifetime. It is a gift God permits so infrequently.

0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.400
<v Speaker 9>I need you to know that I will not because

0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:31.520
<v Speaker 9>I cannot love another. Of Course I will always love you.

0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:34.320
<v Speaker 9>Of course you will always love me. I will pay

0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:38.360
<v Speaker 9>any price, wait any time to keep my promise.

0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:43.360
<v Speaker 1>The prosecution argued that promise was that the two would

0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:44.240
<v Speaker 1>be together.

0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:48.360
<v Speaker 9>And after Carol Newlander died, Fred said, I told you

0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.600
<v Speaker 9>to trust me. When God closes a door, he opens

0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:58.320
<v Speaker 9>a window. I was afraid that, even though I chose

0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:03.600
<v Speaker 9>to believe that Fred Newlander was not involved in the

0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:09.600
<v Speaker 9>murder of his wife, that there was that possibility I

0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:13.960
<v Speaker 9>dishonored his wife in life and I was not going

0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:15.959
<v Speaker 9>to dishonor her in death.

0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:19.360
<v Speaker 1>The rabbi's defense team wasn't having any of that. They

0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:22.280
<v Speaker 1>quickly fought back and tried to discredit her.

0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:26.680
<v Speaker 11>And would you describe yourself, miss Suncini, as the type

0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:30.959
<v Speaker 11>of a woman who has low moral standards or who

0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:32.720
<v Speaker 11>had low moral standards at.

0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:36.919
<v Speaker 9>That time looking back on it now, yes, And didn't

0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:37.320
<v Speaker 9>you have.

0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:42.840
<v Speaker 11>Very real concerns that you yourself may have been considered

0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:45.440
<v Speaker 11>a suspect because you were the other woman.

0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:49.119
<v Speaker 9>I was having a two year relationship with a married

0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:51.160
<v Speaker 9>man and his wife was murdered.

0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:54.120
<v Speaker 4>Well, were you afraid Fred Newlander was going to kill you?

0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:57.720
<v Speaker 9>I was afraid that Fred Newlander might kill me, as

0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:00.440
<v Speaker 9>a matter of fact, because I didn't know what had

0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:02.800
<v Speaker 9>occurred the night of the murder, and I didn't know

0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:06.280
<v Speaker 9>where I was in this relationship. All I knew was

0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:08.960
<v Speaker 9>somehow I'm involved too.

0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:12.840
<v Speaker 1>Then the defense went for it. They questioned how Elaine

0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:16.120
<v Speaker 1>went from sleeping with the rabbi to marrying Cherry Hill

0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:17.720
<v Speaker 1>police officer Larry Leaf.

0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:22.640
<v Speaker 11>Isn't it a fact, Missus Leith, that your now husband,

0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:26.440
<v Speaker 11>Larry Leaf, was seen going through the files of the

0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:30.200
<v Speaker 11>new Lander investigation in the confines of the Cherry Hill

0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:31.159
<v Speaker 11>Police Department.

0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:35.800
<v Speaker 9>All Larry told me was that he wanted to read

0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:39.760
<v Speaker 9>my statement to see if I was involved, if he

0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.240
<v Speaker 9>was getting involved with a bad woman.

0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:46.639
<v Speaker 1>After a full day's worth of testimony about the rabbi's adultery,

0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:50.359
<v Speaker 1>the prosecution then moved on to the rabbi's plan to

0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:53.920
<v Speaker 1>get rid of Carol, and it started with someone named

0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:54.720
<v Speaker 1>Pepi Levin.

0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:59.800
<v Speaker 4>Peppy Levin, it was somebody that the Rabbi used to

0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:01.160
<v Speaker 4>play a racketball with.

0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:05.359
<v Speaker 1>According to the testimony you're about to hear, a few

0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:09.240
<v Speaker 1>months before Carroll's murder, the Rabbi approached him.

0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:11.159
<v Speaker 12>He says, I wish I could get rid of my

0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:16.280
<v Speaker 12>wife ever killed on the ground When I go home someday,

0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:20.359
<v Speaker 12>he says, do you know anybody go a gin the

0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:22.760
<v Speaker 12>kock out of my head? You crazy?

0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:23.920
<v Speaker 4>You are nuts?

0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.800
<v Speaker 12>I said, you nuts, Stay away from it. He got

0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:29.479
<v Speaker 12>a lovely wife. Stick with it.

0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.960
<v Speaker 1>But the defense said that Peppy couldn't be trusted. He

0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:37.119
<v Speaker 1>had a shady past that included time in federal prison.

0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:41.120
<v Speaker 1>For arson, conspiracy, and tax fraw charges.

0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:46.920
<v Speaker 4>He was a very colorful, strange, wild witness.

0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:53.600
<v Speaker 1>But perhaps the strangest, wildest, and most polarizing witness was

0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:58.160
<v Speaker 1>the hitman who ultimately carried out Carroll's murder, len Jenoff.

0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:01.400
<v Speaker 1>He was the prosecutor star witness.

0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:06.920
<v Speaker 4>Len Jenoff was a private investigator, a person who claimed

0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:12.080
<v Speaker 4>to have been in the CIA, but he absolutely had

0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:14.560
<v Speaker 4>many problems. Many problems.

0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:18.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it turned out his biggest problem was his credibility.

0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:22.560
<v Speaker 1>This is kind of mind blowing. After years of talking

0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:27.080
<v Speaker 1>about his past, the defense learned that len Jenoff had

0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:30.240
<v Speaker 1>never served in the CIA or the FBI.

0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:34.560
<v Speaker 4>Len Jenoff was a pathological liar, So was.

0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.800
<v Speaker 1>He telling the truth when he confessed to killing Carol?

0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:41.439
<v Speaker 1>The prosecution star witness had a lot of explaining to do,

0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:50.359
<v Speaker 1>and it would all happen on the witness stand. Prosecutors

0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:54.639
<v Speaker 1>portrayed Rabbi Fred Nulander as a womanizer who carried on

0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:58.399
<v Speaker 1>multiple affairs and hired a hitman to kill his wife.

0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:00.880
<v Speaker 6>It was the doctor stane, I have my life, sir,

0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:05.040
<v Speaker 6>but I took that man's promise of thirty thousand dollars.

0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:06.800
<v Speaker 4>That was from Fred J.

0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:09.760
<v Speaker 6>Newlander, and I cured his wife for that promise of

0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:11.760
<v Speaker 6>thirty thousand dollars.

0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:15.520
<v Speaker 1>That was len Jenoff's testimony. He and his roommate Paul

0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:19.159
<v Speaker 1>Michael Daniels claimed to have murdered Carol Newlander on the

0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:22.200
<v Speaker 1>evening of November one, nineteen ninety four.

0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:25.160
<v Speaker 6>I pulled out the leg pipe star and I racked

0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:35.040
<v Speaker 6>her in the back of the head. She started to stumble,

0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:40.520
<v Speaker 6>and I heard the word why why.

0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:46.480
<v Speaker 1>Those details were painful to hear, especially for Carol's relatives.

0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:50.880
<v Speaker 1>You can hear crying in the background as len Jenoff

0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:53.320
<v Speaker 1>described killing and then robbing Carroll.

0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:59.000
<v Speaker 6>Now By, Newlander was adamant in telling me only take

0:21:59.080 --> 0:21:59.560
<v Speaker 6>the cash.

0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:00.880
<v Speaker 4>Whatever cash is in there.

0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:03.920
<v Speaker 6>It could be fire dollars, it could be five thousand,

0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:05.960
<v Speaker 6>and throw the pocketbook away.

0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:08.880
<v Speaker 1>Len Jenoff says he did what he was told to do.

0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:11.960
<v Speaker 1>He disposed of the handbag and murder weapon in a

0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:15.840
<v Speaker 1>dumpster near the Cherry Hill Mall. Two days later, he

0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:20.560
<v Speaker 1>had the audacity to attend Carrol's memorial. That's where he saw.

0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:24.119
<v Speaker 6>The rabbi and then he kind of pulled me in

0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:28.520
<v Speaker 6>for a hug, patted me on the back, and he whispered,

0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:31.760
<v Speaker 6>everything will be all right now she's dead.

0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:36.800
<v Speaker 1>Not only did len Jenov attend Carrol's funeral, but he

0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:40.280
<v Speaker 1>returned to Rabbi newlanders house a couple days later for

0:22:40.359 --> 0:22:42.440
<v Speaker 1>the Shibba, the Jewish period of.

0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:48.720
<v Speaker 6>Mourning, and he answered me, this Manila envelope stuck with cash,

0:22:49.080 --> 0:22:53.719
<v Speaker 6>and he said, here's another down payment, seven thousand dollars

0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:55.120
<v Speaker 6>in cash.

0:22:55.200 --> 0:22:58.480
<v Speaker 1>The prosecution portrayed the Rabbi as an arrogant and selfish

0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:02.479
<v Speaker 1>adulter who hired len Jenoff to kill his wife. But

0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:05.360
<v Speaker 1>the defense said len Jenoff cannot be trusted.

0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:09.560
<v Speaker 4>Len Jenoff was a person that we described as a

0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:10.959
<v Speaker 4>pathological liar.

0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:15.240
<v Speaker 1>Jeff Zucker was one of Rabbi Newlander's lawyers who untangled

0:23:15.320 --> 0:23:17.560
<v Speaker 1>len Jenoff's long string of lives.

0:23:18.280 --> 0:23:20.600
<v Speaker 4>We had so many things that we brought up to

0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:23.000
<v Speaker 4>show that he had lied and lied and lied.

0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:27.600
<v Speaker 1>It's true Len admitted to line about being in the

0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:32.679
<v Speaker 1>FBI and CIA. In fact, most of his resume was

0:23:32.720 --> 0:23:37.320
<v Speaker 1>one giant lie, most damning. Len admitted to lying to

0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:38.200
<v Speaker 1>the grand jury.

0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:42.040
<v Speaker 6>Yes, I was trying to protect Rabbi Newlander and myself.

0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:46.119
<v Speaker 1>The defense said, the only reason Jenoff was testifying against

0:23:46.160 --> 0:23:49.240
<v Speaker 1>the Rabbi. Was to get a lighter sentence, and that

0:23:49.400 --> 0:23:50.800
<v Speaker 1>was a pretty good argument.

0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:54.240
<v Speaker 4>He made a deal for himself obviously, so that was

0:23:54.320 --> 0:23:57.040
<v Speaker 4>part of the reason he was testifying.

0:23:57.640 --> 0:24:00.680
<v Speaker 1>But Len Jenoff said he didn't act alone. He paid

0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:04.320
<v Speaker 1>his roommate Paul Michael Daniels to help carry out the murder.

0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:08.200
<v Speaker 8>Did mister Jenoff tell you that's the money you got

0:24:08.240 --> 0:24:12.000
<v Speaker 8>to say for the job came from Newland.

0:24:12.359 --> 0:24:16.400
<v Speaker 4>Yes, he pled guilty too actually committing the murder.

0:24:16.680 --> 0:24:19.520
<v Speaker 1>Paul Michael Daniels was just twenty years old at the

0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:23.600
<v Speaker 1>time of Carol's murder, and like Jenoff, his time on

0:24:23.640 --> 0:24:25.680
<v Speaker 1>the witness stand wasn't smooth.

0:24:26.080 --> 0:24:29.680
<v Speaker 4>Couldn't remember a lot of what happened. He basically said

0:24:29.720 --> 0:24:32.360
<v Speaker 4>he just went along, I think with what Jenoff told

0:24:32.400 --> 0:24:35.240
<v Speaker 4>him to do, but he really had mental problems.

0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:40.160
<v Speaker 1>Paul Michael Daniels was bipolar and suffered from schizophrenia and paranoia.

0:24:40.560 --> 0:24:44.520
<v Speaker 4>Claims that Jenoff got him to go to the house

0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:47.359
<v Speaker 4>to kill Carol Newlander.

0:24:47.880 --> 0:24:51.000
<v Speaker 1>Now, if you were or listening to this crazy case,

0:24:51.640 --> 0:24:54.640
<v Speaker 1>you probably wouldn't know who or what to believe at

0:24:54.640 --> 0:24:58.080
<v Speaker 1>this point, which is why the decision to put Rabbi

0:24:58.119 --> 0:25:01.240
<v Speaker 1>Newlander on the witness stand was so important.

0:25:01.960 --> 0:25:06.760
<v Speaker 4>Rabbi Newlander was a tremendous orator when he spoke in

0:25:06.800 --> 0:25:09.640
<v Speaker 4>the synagogue. He was the type of person who could

0:25:09.680 --> 0:25:12.960
<v Speaker 4>really keep your attention and draw.

0:25:12.760 --> 0:25:17.000
<v Speaker 1>You in delivering a sermon. Well, that's one thing a

0:25:17.080 --> 0:25:22.000
<v Speaker 1>holy man answering questions about his numerous affairs and an

0:25:22.000 --> 0:25:23.639
<v Speaker 1>open marriage is another.

0:25:24.880 --> 0:25:27.359
<v Speaker 10>We made a decision that if there were needs that

0:25:27.440 --> 0:25:31.000
<v Speaker 10>could not be supplied between the two of us, then

0:25:31.000 --> 0:25:32.639
<v Speaker 10>we would go outside the marriage.

0:25:32.800 --> 0:25:36.160
<v Speaker 4>His character was certainly called in question because of his infidelity.

0:25:37.040 --> 0:25:39.879
<v Speaker 10>Prosecutor was right. I was selfish and arrogant, and I

0:25:39.960 --> 0:25:44.399
<v Speaker 10>went beyond the balance of marriage, and I betrayed Carol,

0:25:44.440 --> 0:25:48.159
<v Speaker 10>I betrayed family, I betrayed community, I betrayed my synagogue.

0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:53.119
<v Speaker 10>I betrayed my profession. But divorce was never an issue.

0:25:53.520 --> 0:25:55.800
<v Speaker 3>Now, as you got into the fall of nineteen ninety four,

0:25:56.880 --> 0:25:59.080
<v Speaker 3>in relation to miss Nansini, did she make if you

0:25:59.160 --> 0:26:02.320
<v Speaker 3>recall further references to the fact that she wished the

0:26:02.320 --> 0:26:03.000
<v Speaker 3>affair to end.

0:26:04.160 --> 0:26:06.760
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, she repeated that at the end of the year

0:26:07.600 --> 0:26:09.600
<v Speaker 10>she would have to create a new life for herself.

0:26:10.560 --> 0:26:12.399
<v Speaker 3>Did you ever tell her to trust you that something

0:26:12.400 --> 0:26:15.520
<v Speaker 3>would happen now, did you ever say anything about anything

0:26:15.560 --> 0:26:17.679
<v Speaker 3>happening so that you could be together with her on

0:26:17.720 --> 0:26:18.280
<v Speaker 3>a birthday?

0:26:18.280 --> 0:26:18.359
<v Speaker 9>No?

0:26:18.440 --> 0:26:19.040
<v Speaker 4>I didn't.

0:26:19.280 --> 0:26:21.920
<v Speaker 3>Did you ever say something to miss Sancini has expressed

0:26:21.960 --> 0:26:25.439
<v Speaker 3>in her testimony concerning your wishes regarding Carol, which was

0:26:25.880 --> 0:26:28.280
<v Speaker 3>proof Carol's going No.

0:26:29.160 --> 0:26:31.960
<v Speaker 1>He also denied the conversation with his rack up all

0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:36.600
<v Speaker 1>buddy Peppy Levin about wanting Carol dead never occurred.

0:26:36.880 --> 0:26:43.280
<v Speaker 10>I wouldn't tell Peppy if I twisted my finger, and

0:26:43.480 --> 0:26:45.639
<v Speaker 10>he was not a confidant. He just knew who Carol

0:26:45.760 --> 0:26:48.360
<v Speaker 10>was and we had socialized in that soul.

0:26:48.800 --> 0:26:52.200
<v Speaker 1>As for Lenn Jenoff, the Rabbi said he never even

0:26:52.280 --> 0:26:56.160
<v Speaker 1>hired him to investigate Carol's murder. It was Lenn who

0:26:56.200 --> 0:26:57.720
<v Speaker 1>offered his services.

0:26:58.119 --> 0:26:59.879
<v Speaker 3>Did you ever agree with mister Jennoff that you want

0:27:00.440 --> 0:27:02.600
<v Speaker 3>to have your wife killed and then you wanted him

0:27:02.640 --> 0:27:03.439
<v Speaker 3>to do it for money?

0:27:03.640 --> 0:27:03.800
<v Speaker 4>No?

0:27:04.920 --> 0:27:07.400
<v Speaker 3>Did you ever want a divorce ever from your wife,

0:27:07.520 --> 0:27:09.520
<v Speaker 3>for Elaine Sansini or any other woman.

0:27:09.720 --> 0:27:09.840
<v Speaker 10>No.

0:27:10.760 --> 0:27:14.000
<v Speaker 3>As you sit there today, sir, are you guilty or innocent?

0:27:14.840 --> 0:27:15.240
<v Speaker 10>Innocent?

0:27:15.880 --> 0:27:18.400
<v Speaker 1>Well, it wasn't surprising. The rabbi held his own while

0:27:18.400 --> 0:27:22.399
<v Speaker 1>answering questions from his own lawyers. But things changed. During

0:27:22.440 --> 0:27:27.960
<v Speaker 1>cross examination, the prosecution played sultry voicemails the rabbi left

0:27:27.960 --> 0:27:32.280
<v Speaker 1>Elaine Sansini, saying he truly loved her and needed her.

0:27:32.920 --> 0:27:34.840
<v Speaker 1>She's left the rabbi, blushing.

0:27:35.000 --> 0:27:36.960
<v Speaker 10>Simply wanted the relationship to continue.

0:27:37.520 --> 0:27:38.399
<v Speaker 13>And I don't.

0:27:40.119 --> 0:27:41.960
<v Speaker 10>I can't categorize why I said.

0:27:41.720 --> 0:27:42.280
<v Speaker 4>What I said.

0:27:42.560 --> 0:27:46.200
<v Speaker 1>And if Lenn Jenoff lied about his past, why didn't

0:27:46.200 --> 0:27:48.479
<v Speaker 1>the Rabbi do a better job vetting him.

0:27:48.880 --> 0:27:50.960
<v Speaker 8>Didn't you want to get the very best person you

0:27:51.000 --> 0:27:53.520
<v Speaker 8>could find to investigate the murder of your wife?

0:27:53.880 --> 0:27:54.720
<v Speaker 10>Yes, I did, with.

0:27:54.800 --> 0:27:56.880
<v Speaker 8>Letter jen Off, the very best person you could find

0:27:56.920 --> 0:27:57.800
<v Speaker 8>to do that investigation.

0:27:59.359 --> 0:28:02.560
<v Speaker 3>I didn't know how careful did you look, sir? How

0:28:02.560 --> 0:28:03.919
<v Speaker 3>many investigators did you talk to?

0:28:04.040 --> 0:28:06.840
<v Speaker 8>And taking out Mistry Jenner, how many people did you

0:28:06.880 --> 0:28:07.600
<v Speaker 8>go through it together?

0:28:09.280 --> 0:28:11.840
<v Speaker 10>I didn't investigate any other didn't bought anybody else.

0:28:12.000 --> 0:28:15.800
<v Speaker 1>No, but something else. Fred Newlander did on the witness

0:28:15.800 --> 0:28:18.080
<v Speaker 1>stand even bugged his own lawyer.

0:28:18.840 --> 0:28:22.280
<v Speaker 4>What bothered me the most when we questioned him or

0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:26.639
<v Speaker 4>when the prosecutor questioned him about coming home and seeing

0:28:26.680 --> 0:28:32.120
<v Speaker 4>his wife on the floor. Instead of describing his wife

0:28:32.200 --> 0:28:36.000
<v Speaker 4>as Carol, he said, I saw the body on the floor.

0:28:36.320 --> 0:28:38.360
<v Speaker 8>Hours after you found your wife, you referred to her

0:28:38.400 --> 0:28:39.800
<v Speaker 8>as the body. Correct.

0:28:41.040 --> 0:28:44.920
<v Speaker 4>Correct, It just came across as to me as being

0:28:45.040 --> 0:28:45.680
<v Speaker 4>too cold.

0:28:46.280 --> 0:28:49.360
<v Speaker 1>Here's something else that was cold. The rabbi found his

0:28:49.440 --> 0:28:53.640
<v Speaker 1>wife bloodied and beaten in their home, and he didn't

0:28:53.720 --> 0:28:58.040
<v Speaker 1>touch her. He didn't put her in his arms, he

0:28:58.080 --> 0:28:59.040
<v Speaker 1>didn't comfort her.

0:28:59.520 --> 0:29:00.000
<v Speaker 10>That's right.

0:29:00.440 --> 0:29:01.320
<v Speaker 4>I stayed away.

0:29:01.360 --> 0:29:06.120
<v Speaker 10>I saw her, and I just I couldn't deal with it.

0:29:06.280 --> 0:29:08.680
<v Speaker 4>If a person comes in and sees their wife bloodied

0:29:08.720 --> 0:29:11.960
<v Speaker 4>on the floor, my response, I would hope, would be

0:29:12.000 --> 0:29:14.360
<v Speaker 4>to run over to my wife and hold her and

0:29:14.680 --> 0:29:18.200
<v Speaker 4>see how she is. But there can't be a typical

0:29:18.240 --> 0:29:21.640
<v Speaker 4>response to that, which is what we argued to the jury.

0:29:22.400 --> 0:29:25.200
<v Speaker 4>Nobody could possibly know that unless they were put in

0:29:25.200 --> 0:29:25.800
<v Speaker 4>that position.

0:29:26.320 --> 0:29:30.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's definitely true. But then came the question that

0:29:30.520 --> 0:29:33.960
<v Speaker 1>had lingered from the night of his wife's murder. Why

0:29:33.960 --> 0:29:37.200
<v Speaker 1>did Fred Newlander appear so aloof Well?

0:29:37.240 --> 0:29:39.440
<v Speaker 10>I can tell you is that I know how I grieve.

0:29:40.160 --> 0:29:41.200
<v Speaker 10>I usually have an.

0:29:42.080 --> 0:29:49.000
<v Speaker 13>Quiet, private, not quiet, a private experience of crying and

0:29:49.920 --> 0:29:52.160
<v Speaker 13>then quickly gather it together.

0:29:52.640 --> 0:29:56.840
<v Speaker 1>Then the rabbi talked himself into trouble. He first said

0:29:56.920 --> 0:30:00.760
<v Speaker 1>he loved Elaine Sancini and even wrote her letter that's

0:30:00.880 --> 0:30:03.760
<v Speaker 1>said so. But the next day on the witness stand,

0:30:04.480 --> 0:30:06.200
<v Speaker 1>he changed his testimony.

0:30:06.600 --> 0:30:07.400
<v Speaker 3>Yes, I can say I.

0:30:07.320 --> 0:30:09.600
<v Speaker 11>Didn't love her with all the jury yesterday that it

0:30:09.760 --> 0:30:10.440
<v Speaker 11>did love her.

0:30:11.240 --> 0:30:11.600
<v Speaker 7>Correct.

0:30:11.680 --> 0:30:14.800
<v Speaker 10>I never had any intention of continuing a relationship with her.

0:30:15.640 --> 0:30:20.200
<v Speaker 10>I wanted to maintain whatever relationship we had.

0:30:20.600 --> 0:30:23.320
<v Speaker 3>You weren't lying to this jury yesterday, were sir.

0:30:24.000 --> 0:30:25.680
<v Speaker 10>I gave the wrong impression.

0:30:25.880 --> 0:30:29.200
<v Speaker 4>I used the wrong words. He did not come across

0:30:29.240 --> 0:30:32.040
<v Speaker 4>as a good witness. He did not come across as

0:30:32.080 --> 0:30:37.320
<v Speaker 4>a credible witness. In my opinion, the key really was Jenoff.

0:30:37.840 --> 0:30:40.320
<v Speaker 4>I was hoping for jurors they could see through len

0:30:40.400 --> 0:30:44.360
<v Speaker 4>Jenoff because he was the cornerstone of their case.

0:30:45.040 --> 0:30:48.240
<v Speaker 1>The defense knew that len Jenoff also didn't come across

0:30:48.280 --> 0:30:53.600
<v Speaker 1>as honest, so they presented one final surprise witness, a

0:30:53.640 --> 0:30:57.640
<v Speaker 1>man who knew len Jenoff from AA meetings. Now the

0:30:57.680 --> 0:31:01.920
<v Speaker 1>second word in AA is a notus, So this witness

0:31:01.960 --> 0:31:05.760
<v Speaker 1>broke the pledge of anonymity and testified that to will incarcerated.

0:31:06.400 --> 0:31:09.920
<v Speaker 1>Lenjenov was working on either a book or movie deal,

0:31:10.680 --> 0:31:16.040
<v Speaker 1>but that deal wouldn't happen unless Rabbi Newlander was found guilty.

0:31:17.920 --> 0:31:22.800
<v Speaker 1>So what's really going on here? Was Fred Newlander responsible

0:31:22.880 --> 0:31:24.680
<v Speaker 1>for the death of his wife?

0:31:25.000 --> 0:31:28.760
<v Speaker 8>This is a man of God who acted in a

0:31:28.840 --> 0:31:30.720
<v Speaker 8>thoroughly ungodly fashion.

0:31:31.240 --> 0:31:35.959
<v Speaker 1>Or was Rabbi Newlander's self purported hit man a liar

0:31:36.320 --> 0:31:38.400
<v Speaker 1>trying to secure a movie deal.

0:31:38.960 --> 0:31:40.520
<v Speaker 3>There's nothing real about this man.

0:31:40.600 --> 0:31:41.200
<v Speaker 4>He's a liar.

0:31:42.000 --> 0:31:45.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm slow Glass. The case against Fred Newlander is about

0:31:45.800 --> 0:31:47.760
<v Speaker 1>to get a whole lot more complicated.

0:31:48.240 --> 0:31:51.360
<v Speaker 9>I understand from your note that you have reached a verdict.

0:31:51.640 --> 0:31:55.320
<v Speaker 1>Yes we have, and we'll hear the surprising conclusion in

0:31:55.480 --> 0:31:59.480
<v Speaker 1>part three of Who Killed Carol? That's next time on

0:31:59.560 --> 0:32:05.920
<v Speaker 1>America Homicide. You can contact the American Homicide team by

0:32:05.960 --> 0:32:10.480
<v Speaker 1>emailing us at American Homicide Pod at gmail dot com.

0:32:10.760 --> 0:32:15.800
<v Speaker 1>That's American Homicide Pod at gmail dot com. American Homicide

0:32:15.840 --> 0:32:18.880
<v Speaker 1>is hosted and written by me Sloane Glass and is

0:32:18.920 --> 0:32:23.640
<v Speaker 1>a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group,

0:32:23.760 --> 0:32:28.400
<v Speaker 1>in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced

0:32:28.440 --> 0:32:32.000
<v Speaker 1>by Nancy Glass and Todd Gans. The series is also

0:32:32.040 --> 0:32:35.680
<v Speaker 1>written and produced by Todd Gans, with additional writing by

0:32:35.680 --> 0:32:41.000
<v Speaker 1>Ben Fetterman and Andrea Gunny. Our associate producer is Kristin Melcurie,

0:32:41.280 --> 0:32:46.240
<v Speaker 1>Our Ihearty is Ali Perry and Jessica Crimecheck. Audio editing

0:32:46.360 --> 0:32:50.520
<v Speaker 1>and mixing by Matt Delvecchio, Dave Seya and Britt Robashow.

0:32:50.880 --> 0:32:55.560
<v Speaker 1>Additional editing support from Nico Ruka, Tanner Robbins and Patrick Walsh.

0:32:56.480 --> 0:33:00.280
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0:33:00.360 --> 0:33:04.760
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0:33:05.160 --> 0:33:09.360
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0:33:09.400 --> 0:33:13.040
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0:33:13.080 --> 0:33:16.840
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