1 00:00:15,236 --> 00:00:30,156 Speaker 1: Pushkin. A few years ago, I got a terrifying phone call. 2 00:00:31,236 --> 00:00:35,076 Speaker 1: The police were at my parents' house. They'd been called 3 00:00:35,196 --> 00:00:37,636 Speaker 1: by my brother, who was living with our parents at 4 00:00:37,636 --> 00:00:42,516 Speaker 1: the time. I got in my car and rushed over. 5 00:00:43,396 --> 00:00:46,196 Speaker 1: I made what was normally a twelve minute drive in 6 00:00:46,316 --> 00:00:50,076 Speaker 1: five minutes flat. When I got there, I tried to 7 00:00:50,116 --> 00:00:53,636 Speaker 1: sow my heart down. I carefully walked through the front 8 00:00:53,636 --> 00:00:58,276 Speaker 1: door so as not to alarm the officers. My mission simple, 9 00:00:59,076 --> 00:01:10,276 Speaker 1: get the police out away from my family. I'm ibramex Kendy, 10 00:01:10,636 --> 00:01:15,956 Speaker 1: and this is be anti racist. The intense fear I 11 00:01:16,116 --> 00:01:19,796 Speaker 1: just described. It was about the hazards of racism, of course, 12 00:01:20,356 --> 00:01:24,556 Speaker 1: but it was about something else as well. My brother 13 00:01:24,796 --> 00:01:27,956 Speaker 1: has a learning disability. At the time he called the 14 00:01:27,996 --> 00:01:30,596 Speaker 1: cops and our parents, he was in his mid thirties 15 00:01:30,596 --> 00:01:33,876 Speaker 1: and struggling to find employment. It was a difficult time 16 00:01:33,916 --> 00:01:37,436 Speaker 1: for him. When I entered the house, it was with 17 00:01:37,516 --> 00:01:40,796 Speaker 1: the full understanding of the racist and ablest violence in 18 00:01:40,836 --> 00:01:45,396 Speaker 1: this country when police are involved. I always fear from 19 00:01:45,396 --> 00:01:48,396 Speaker 1: my brother's life around the police. In the United States, 20 00:01:48,436 --> 00:01:50,996 Speaker 1: as many as half of the people who were killed 21 00:01:51,036 --> 00:01:54,916 Speaker 1: by police are people with disabilities. And the fact that 22 00:01:54,956 --> 00:01:58,676 Speaker 1: my brother had been struggling to find work. Nothing unusual 23 00:01:58,676 --> 00:02:01,596 Speaker 1: about it. The unemployment rate for people of color with 24 00:02:01,716 --> 00:02:05,436 Speaker 1: disabilities is much higher than the national average and higher 25 00:02:05,436 --> 00:02:09,836 Speaker 1: than that of white Americans with disabilities. As in a historian, 26 00:02:09,916 --> 00:02:14,276 Speaker 1: I know how deeply racism and ableism are intertwined in America. 27 00:02:14,556 --> 00:02:18,036 Speaker 1: Starting in the seventeenth century, colonizers did not just call 28 00:02:18,156 --> 00:02:23,116 Speaker 1: Native Americans racially inferior. They call them physically and mentally 29 00:02:23,156 --> 00:02:27,716 Speaker 1: incapable of adapting to so called civilization, and they went 30 00:02:27,756 --> 00:02:33,116 Speaker 1: on to use this ablest framework to rationalize enslavement, force removal, 31 00:02:33,196 --> 00:02:38,236 Speaker 1: and genocide. Well into the nineteenth century. Slaveholders use racist 32 00:02:38,316 --> 00:02:43,676 Speaker 1: ablest ideas about black people supposed mental inferiority to justify slavery. 33 00:02:44,196 --> 00:02:48,556 Speaker 1: In the twentieth century, eugenesis deployed ideas of feeble mindedness 34 00:02:48,636 --> 00:02:54,516 Speaker 1: to forcibly sterilize Black Latinas and Indigenous women. Today, low 35 00:02:54,596 --> 00:02:58,956 Speaker 1: income and students of color are disproportionately assigned to special 36 00:02:59,116 --> 00:03:02,596 Speaker 1: education classes, and young people of color with disabilities are 37 00:03:02,636 --> 00:03:08,356 Speaker 1: more likely to face the gallows of incarceration. All of 38 00:03:08,396 --> 00:03:11,756 Speaker 1: this on my mind as I stepped into my parents' house. 39 00:03:12,156 --> 00:03:15,756 Speaker 1: All of this kept me focused. Within minutes, the officers 40 00:03:15,756 --> 00:03:18,596 Speaker 1: who were walking out the door. I was closing it. 41 00:03:18,916 --> 00:03:21,916 Speaker 1: I was turning to rest my back against it. I 42 00:03:21,996 --> 00:03:26,756 Speaker 1: was exhaling, feeling as if our lives had been spared. 43 00:03:28,356 --> 00:03:32,796 Speaker 1: I've never shared that story before. It has been unbelievably 44 00:03:32,876 --> 00:03:37,196 Speaker 1: hard to share a memory that's so wrapped in anger 45 00:03:37,396 --> 00:03:41,316 Speaker 1: over what my brother has experienced in his life. He 46 00:03:41,476 --> 00:03:44,076 Speaker 1: never told me when he was being bullied at school. 47 00:03:44,436 --> 00:03:46,956 Speaker 1: He never told me when he was being bullied at work. 48 00:03:47,876 --> 00:03:51,316 Speaker 1: He didn't tell me until long afterwards because he knew 49 00:03:52,036 --> 00:03:56,236 Speaker 1: what I would do. He protected me when I wanted 50 00:03:56,276 --> 00:04:01,116 Speaker 1: to protect him. I carry so much shame for not 51 00:04:01,236 --> 00:04:05,316 Speaker 1: doing more to fight for him and fight against this 52 00:04:05,476 --> 00:04:09,436 Speaker 1: structural problem. My brother is in a better place now, 53 00:04:10,156 --> 00:04:13,596 Speaker 1: but not in a place free of racism and ableism. 54 00:04:13,676 --> 00:04:17,116 Speaker 1: I know how deeply the connection between racism and ableism 55 00:04:17,156 --> 00:04:21,196 Speaker 1: still affects all of us. It's time to have more 56 00:04:21,276 --> 00:04:25,316 Speaker 1: public conversations about what we can all do to change things. 57 00:04:26,716 --> 00:04:30,436 Speaker 1: Today's show is for my older brother. I Love you. 58 00:04:34,356 --> 00:04:39,356 Speaker 1: Welcome to be Anti Racist in Action podcasts where we 59 00:04:39,436 --> 00:04:43,956 Speaker 1: discuss how to diagnose, dismantle, and abolish racism, how to 60 00:04:44,036 --> 00:04:47,436 Speaker 1: save humanity from the divisiveness of racist ideas and the 61 00:04:47,516 --> 00:04:52,356 Speaker 1: destructiveness of racist power and policy. How to free humanity 62 00:04:52,796 --> 00:04:57,116 Speaker 1: through the unity of anti racist ideas and the constructiveness 63 00:04:57,156 --> 00:05:01,516 Speaker 1: of anti racist power and policy. We were all born 64 00:05:01,596 --> 00:05:04,876 Speaker 1: into a world of racist ideas, many of which I 65 00:05:04,996 --> 00:05:09,036 Speaker 1: myself consumed as a young man in New York in Virginia. 66 00:05:09,236 --> 00:05:11,676 Speaker 1: Throughout my life, I've had to come to grips with 67 00:05:11,836 --> 00:05:14,436 Speaker 1: some of the things that I imagine and thought were 68 00:05:14,476 --> 00:05:17,636 Speaker 1: true about the world and the people in it. And 69 00:05:17,796 --> 00:05:21,756 Speaker 1: like all of us, I'm still learning in my pursuit 70 00:05:21,796 --> 00:05:25,676 Speaker 1: of understanding. I became an historian, I've written books, been 71 00:05:25,716 --> 00:05:29,316 Speaker 1: on TV, taught at universities, lectured around the world. And 72 00:05:29,436 --> 00:05:32,076 Speaker 1: the latest step in my journey is to help you 73 00:05:32,436 --> 00:05:38,156 Speaker 1: on yours for us to keep growing together. On BUNTI Racist, 74 00:05:38,276 --> 00:05:41,836 Speaker 1: we discuss how to make the impossible possible and how 75 00:05:41,876 --> 00:05:45,636 Speaker 1: to bring into being what modern humans have never known, 76 00:05:46,556 --> 00:06:06,476 Speaker 1: a just inequitable world. You ready, let's roll. I now 77 00:06:06,556 --> 00:06:09,756 Speaker 1: lift my pen to sign this Americans with Rey Act 78 00:06:09,756 --> 00:06:15,196 Speaker 1: and say, let the shameful wall of exclusion finally come 79 00:06:15,276 --> 00:06:19,716 Speaker 1: tumbling down. More than thirty years ago, then President George 80 00:06:19,716 --> 00:06:24,636 Speaker 1: Herbert Walker Bush signed the Americans with Disabilities Act into law. 81 00:06:25,196 --> 00:06:29,276 Speaker 1: It came after a long struggle by disability activists to 82 00:06:29,356 --> 00:06:33,476 Speaker 1: extend the protections guaranteed by the Civil Rights Act. This 83 00:06:33,636 --> 00:06:37,636 Speaker 1: Act is powerful in its simplicity. It will ensure that 84 00:06:37,716 --> 00:06:42,876 Speaker 1: people with disabilities are given the basic guarantees for which 85 00:06:42,916 --> 00:06:48,396 Speaker 1: they have worked so long and so hard. Independence, freedom 86 00:06:48,436 --> 00:06:52,716 Speaker 1: of choice, control of their lives, the opportunity to blend 87 00:06:52,796 --> 00:06:57,676 Speaker 1: fully and equally into the rich mosaic of the American mainstream. 88 00:06:58,156 --> 00:07:01,396 Speaker 1: The signing of the ADA took place a lifetime ago, 89 00:07:01,716 --> 00:07:04,716 Speaker 1: and it was the culmination of more lifetimes of struggle. 90 00:07:05,516 --> 00:07:09,596 Speaker 1: But what kind of progress have we made us today? 91 00:07:09,676 --> 00:07:12,876 Speaker 1: Is Rebecca Cokeley one of the country's leading voices on 92 00:07:12,996 --> 00:07:17,116 Speaker 1: disability rights. I'm especially impressed by how well she sent 93 00:07:17,156 --> 00:07:21,596 Speaker 1: hers race in her analysis and advocacy. She founded and 94 00:07:21,636 --> 00:07:25,596 Speaker 1: directed the Disability Justice Initiative at the Center for American 95 00:07:25,676 --> 00:07:29,596 Speaker 1: Progress and served as the executive director of the National 96 00:07:29,676 --> 00:07:34,476 Speaker 1: Council on Disability. Recently, Cokeley joined the Ford Foundation as 97 00:07:34,476 --> 00:07:37,716 Speaker 1: the first program officer to lead a US based disability 98 00:07:37,796 --> 00:07:42,476 Speaker 1: rights portfolio. She's also a California native, a mother, and 99 00:07:42,676 --> 00:07:46,116 Speaker 1: someone who served in the Obama administration from two thousand 100 00:07:46,116 --> 00:07:49,996 Speaker 1: and nine to twenty thirteen. The day I sat down 101 00:07:50,036 --> 00:07:52,596 Speaker 1: to talk with Rebecca happened to be the day that 102 00:07:52,676 --> 00:07:56,156 Speaker 1: the closing arguments in the Derek Chauvin trial were presented 103 00:07:56,196 --> 00:08:03,756 Speaker 1: in Minneapolis. It was an intense day for both of us. Hey, Rebecca, Hey, 104 00:08:03,756 --> 00:08:10,516 Speaker 1: how have you been? Man? How are you really? I 105 00:08:10,556 --> 00:08:17,316 Speaker 1: think I'm overwhelmed and traumatized and excited and outraged. It's 106 00:08:17,396 --> 00:08:21,356 Speaker 1: this sort of weird mix of all of those emotions. 107 00:08:21,356 --> 00:08:23,996 Speaker 1: What about you? How are you feeling in this moment? 108 00:08:24,596 --> 00:08:26,996 Speaker 1: You know? I think I had done a panel at 109 00:08:26,996 --> 00:08:30,636 Speaker 1: Netroot several years ago, was myself and a couple of 110 00:08:30,876 --> 00:08:33,676 Speaker 1: folks from on the ground in Ferguson, and one of 111 00:08:33,716 --> 00:08:35,676 Speaker 1: the things they said at the time that it stuck 112 00:08:35,716 --> 00:08:40,676 Speaker 1: with me is that they believed that PTSD doesn't exist 113 00:08:41,156 --> 00:08:45,556 Speaker 1: because what we're dealing with is a constant state of trauma, stress, 114 00:08:45,636 --> 00:08:50,116 Speaker 1: and disorder. And it has been probably one of the 115 00:08:50,156 --> 00:08:52,716 Speaker 1: thoughts that has stayed in my head consistently since then, 116 00:08:52,796 --> 00:08:54,676 Speaker 1: because the notion that there is a time and a 117 00:08:54,716 --> 00:09:00,076 Speaker 1: space for recovery almost feels like a luxury exactly. It's 118 00:09:00,116 --> 00:09:05,316 Speaker 1: trauma all around, exactly, and part of that, even as 119 00:09:05,356 --> 00:09:09,476 Speaker 1: we talk, we have to be very cognizant about our terminology, 120 00:09:10,476 --> 00:09:14,156 Speaker 1: and so I think, starting this conversation, how should we 121 00:09:15,116 --> 00:09:18,596 Speaker 1: what terminology should we be using when we're thinking about 122 00:09:19,556 --> 00:09:23,196 Speaker 1: disability or the disabled community. You know, to me, I 123 00:09:23,276 --> 00:09:27,916 Speaker 1: love the word disability. I love it because of the 124 00:09:27,956 --> 00:09:32,116 Speaker 1: beauty of the elasticity of the term a It was 125 00:09:32,156 --> 00:09:34,676 Speaker 1: a word that was chosen by our elders, and it 126 00:09:34,716 --> 00:09:40,796 Speaker 1: was the first time that people with disabilities formally declared 127 00:09:40,876 --> 00:09:43,476 Speaker 1: what they wanted to be called. And then in the 128 00:09:43,516 --> 00:09:48,716 Speaker 1: crafting of the ADA, the definition is any mental or 129 00:09:48,716 --> 00:09:53,676 Speaker 1: physical impairment that impacts activities of daily life, a history 130 00:09:53,796 --> 00:09:58,156 Speaker 1: or a record of such impairment. And so the definition 131 00:09:58,596 --> 00:10:03,516 Speaker 1: is broad enough to encompass the children in Flint, Michigan 132 00:10:03,596 --> 00:10:07,356 Speaker 1: that are still several thousand days without clean drinking water 133 00:10:07,436 --> 00:10:10,756 Speaker 1: and have acquired learning disabilities as a result of it. 134 00:10:10,756 --> 00:10:14,836 Speaker 1: It's broad enough to include elders like Fanny Lew Hamer 135 00:10:14,876 --> 00:10:18,996 Speaker 1: who are involuntarily sterilized. And it's broad enough to include 136 00:10:19,036 --> 00:10:21,836 Speaker 1: people living with long haul COVID that are still trying 137 00:10:21,836 --> 00:10:24,116 Speaker 1: to figure out how they navigate this space and time. 138 00:10:24,796 --> 00:10:29,676 Speaker 1: To me, so often definitions are so restrictive, and this 139 00:10:29,756 --> 00:10:33,436 Speaker 1: is instead about does it impact how you eat, how 140 00:10:33,476 --> 00:10:36,796 Speaker 1: you live, how you engage with your loved ones. And 141 00:10:36,996 --> 00:10:38,716 Speaker 1: the beauty of that is that it varies with each 142 00:10:38,756 --> 00:10:45,116 Speaker 1: person definitely. And how would you define able I always 143 00:10:45,156 --> 00:10:48,796 Speaker 1: go to the definition by my colleague Talila Lewis and 144 00:10:49,076 --> 00:10:54,516 Speaker 1: Dustin Gibson that talks about ableism as a system that 145 00:10:54,636 --> 00:10:58,596 Speaker 1: places value on people's bodies and minds based on society 146 00:10:58,676 --> 00:11:04,236 Speaker 1: lee constructed ideas of normalcy, intelligence, excellence, and productivity. These 147 00:11:04,316 --> 00:11:08,236 Speaker 1: ideas are deeply rooted in anti blackness and eugenics, colonialism 148 00:11:08,236 --> 00:11:12,596 Speaker 1: and capitalism. And you don't have to be disabled to 149 00:11:12,636 --> 00:11:16,276 Speaker 1: experience ableism. It's really grounded in the notion of who 150 00:11:16,396 --> 00:11:19,996 Speaker 1: is valuable and worthy based on a person's appearance and 151 00:11:20,236 --> 00:11:25,636 Speaker 1: or their ability to produce, reproduce excel and the term 152 00:11:25,676 --> 00:11:27,196 Speaker 1: that they use, and I think is really powerful and 153 00:11:27,316 --> 00:11:30,636 Speaker 1: or behave. Somebody might not have a choice how they 154 00:11:30,676 --> 00:11:33,676 Speaker 1: appear in public, how they engage in public, but the 155 00:11:33,716 --> 00:11:36,596 Speaker 1: way that society responds to them. If they walk with 156 00:11:36,676 --> 00:11:40,276 Speaker 1: a limp, if they speak with a stutter, if they 157 00:11:40,396 --> 00:11:44,476 Speaker 1: use a communication board to communicate, all of those things 158 00:11:44,596 --> 00:11:47,076 Speaker 1: fall under the behavior piece, which I think is really 159 00:11:47,076 --> 00:11:49,156 Speaker 1: critically important when we think about what it means to 160 00:11:49,156 --> 00:11:52,556 Speaker 1: live in society. Wow, And it of course makes me 161 00:11:53,836 --> 00:11:58,476 Speaker 1: think about how people respond to certain people because of 162 00:11:58,636 --> 00:12:01,476 Speaker 1: the color of their skin, because of the texture of 163 00:12:01,516 --> 00:12:05,036 Speaker 1: their hair, because of the culture that they practice, because 164 00:12:05,036 --> 00:12:09,676 Speaker 1: of the language that they speak. And then when we 165 00:12:09,756 --> 00:12:15,236 Speaker 1: start thinking about the intersection of ableism and racism, I 166 00:12:15,276 --> 00:12:17,916 Speaker 1: think that's when it becomes tricky for many people, because 167 00:12:17,916 --> 00:12:21,876 Speaker 1: I think in many ways many Americans don't necessarily have 168 00:12:21,916 --> 00:12:25,516 Speaker 1: a clear definition of racism, nor do they have a 169 00:12:25,516 --> 00:12:32,036 Speaker 1: clear definition of which then prevents them from understanding their intersection. 170 00:12:32,156 --> 00:12:36,276 Speaker 1: And so how should we understand their intersection? Well, I 171 00:12:36,276 --> 00:12:39,276 Speaker 1: mean they're roots of the same trade. Yes, it's funny. 172 00:12:39,276 --> 00:12:42,476 Speaker 1: I actually went back through your book after reading it 173 00:12:42,516 --> 00:12:45,676 Speaker 1: the first time, and every time there was something there 174 00:12:45,716 --> 00:12:48,196 Speaker 1: that I was like, oh, it parallels here. I literally 175 00:12:48,196 --> 00:12:51,556 Speaker 1: like drew a picture of a trade. Thinking about even 176 00:12:51,836 --> 00:12:57,116 Speaker 1: from the days of slavery and the discussion of things 177 00:12:57,156 --> 00:13:00,076 Speaker 1: like drape to mania, the psychosis that went along with 178 00:13:00,236 --> 00:13:04,996 Speaker 1: runaway slaves, the development and frankly still continue to use 179 00:13:05,036 --> 00:13:09,636 Speaker 1: in many circles of phrenology the examination of the physicality 180 00:13:09,796 --> 00:13:12,876 Speaker 1: of a group of people in order to determine superiority 181 00:13:12,996 --> 00:13:17,476 Speaker 1: or not. Many of those things are still common discussion today. 182 00:13:18,396 --> 00:13:22,836 Speaker 1: Individuals who are slaughtered by law enforcement at least fifty 183 00:13:22,836 --> 00:13:26,796 Speaker 1: percent are people with disabilities, whether it be a mental illness, 184 00:13:26,916 --> 00:13:31,516 Speaker 1: whether it be a speech impediment, whether it be substance use, 185 00:13:31,556 --> 00:13:34,996 Speaker 1: which counts if somebody is in recovery. Even with the 186 00:13:35,036 --> 00:13:40,396 Speaker 1: Derek Schouven trial hearing the reliance on ablest language as 187 00:13:40,436 --> 00:13:45,636 Speaker 1: a justification for the numerous deaths of African Americans with disabilities. Yes, 188 00:13:46,316 --> 00:13:48,556 Speaker 1: but then you have some who say, well, why are 189 00:13:48,556 --> 00:13:52,916 Speaker 1: we still talking about disability? You know, indeed the ADA 190 00:13:52,996 --> 00:13:56,476 Speaker 1: was passed in nineteen ninety. Aren't we living in a 191 00:13:56,556 --> 00:14:01,276 Speaker 1: society where folks with the disability, you know, have rights justice, 192 00:14:01,316 --> 00:14:03,956 Speaker 1: Black and brown and indigenous and people of color have 193 00:14:04,076 --> 00:14:06,796 Speaker 1: their rights. So why are we talking about this? What 194 00:14:06,876 --> 00:14:09,756 Speaker 1: do you say to those who who make that claims? 195 00:14:09,796 --> 00:14:13,796 Speaker 1: I see you're already shaking it because it's the same 196 00:14:13,836 --> 00:14:17,516 Speaker 1: thing with post racial society, right it is, we still 197 00:14:17,596 --> 00:14:21,556 Speaker 1: deal with a seventy percent at least unemployment rate. We're 198 00:14:21,556 --> 00:14:25,796 Speaker 1: the only community that it is actually grounded in statute 199 00:14:26,116 --> 00:14:28,876 Speaker 1: that it is perfectly legal to pay disabled workers two 200 00:14:28,916 --> 00:14:33,956 Speaker 1: dollars and fifteen cents or less a week. Disabled people Still, 201 00:14:34,036 --> 00:14:37,476 Speaker 1: if you're on supplemental security income, you can't get married 202 00:14:37,676 --> 00:14:40,516 Speaker 1: or you'll lose your health insurance. We don't have marriage 203 00:14:40,556 --> 00:14:43,796 Speaker 1: equality yet for disabled people in this country. You aren't 204 00:14:43,836 --> 00:14:46,036 Speaker 1: allowed to maintain more than two thousand dollars in a 205 00:14:46,116 --> 00:14:49,516 Speaker 1: checking account in a lot of cases. Yes, the ADA 206 00:14:49,636 --> 00:14:53,596 Speaker 1: is thirty years old, but eighty percent of polling places 207 00:14:53,636 --> 00:14:56,596 Speaker 1: are still inaccessible to us. In one way, shape or form. 208 00:14:57,556 --> 00:15:00,476 Speaker 1: Progress has been made, but there has never been the 209 00:15:00,556 --> 00:15:04,756 Speaker 1: level of enforcement that we need to actually see people 210 00:15:04,796 --> 00:15:09,516 Speaker 1: with disabilities come anywhere near the level playing fe that 211 00:15:09,756 --> 00:15:15,836 Speaker 1: the law is fired to all those years ago. I'm 212 00:15:15,836 --> 00:15:18,836 Speaker 1: Rebecca Coakley, and you're listening to be anti racist with 213 00:15:18,876 --> 00:15:24,756 Speaker 1: Ebramax Kendy. I don't know if I've shared this for you. 214 00:15:24,916 --> 00:15:29,756 Speaker 1: My brother as a mental disability, and I think one 215 00:15:29,796 --> 00:15:34,956 Speaker 1: of the ways in which I've seen him experience the 216 00:15:34,996 --> 00:15:37,796 Speaker 1: world as a black boy and then ultimately a black 217 00:15:37,836 --> 00:15:44,156 Speaker 1: man with a disability is that it seems as if 218 00:15:44,316 --> 00:15:50,516 Speaker 1: due to his blackness, he has not provided the protections 219 00:15:51,236 --> 00:15:54,556 Speaker 1: of someone who has a disability. People just see him 220 00:15:54,556 --> 00:15:57,516 Speaker 1: as black. Well, I think it even starts at the 221 00:15:57,596 --> 00:16:01,476 Speaker 1: earliest days of education. I mean, we see, if you're 222 00:16:01,716 --> 00:16:05,196 Speaker 1: a white student and express certain behaviors a you're more 223 00:16:05,236 --> 00:16:10,396 Speaker 1: likely to have access to better, fine tuned diagnostics and 224 00:16:10,596 --> 00:16:13,916 Speaker 1: more likely to be accurately diagnosed with something along the 225 00:16:13,956 --> 00:16:17,836 Speaker 1: lines of autism. But if you're a person of color, specifically, 226 00:16:17,876 --> 00:16:20,356 Speaker 1: if you're a black boy with a disability, you're more 227 00:16:20,436 --> 00:16:23,156 Speaker 1: likely to be diagnosed as what they call EBED or 228 00:16:23,196 --> 00:16:28,916 Speaker 1: emotionally behaviorally disturbed. And just thinking about the language and 229 00:16:29,116 --> 00:16:31,796 Speaker 1: what that says to a child, what that says to 230 00:16:31,876 --> 00:16:37,076 Speaker 1: a family, what that says to a community. EBED sounds criminal, 231 00:16:38,276 --> 00:16:44,036 Speaker 1: And thinking about the fact that a majority of resources 232 00:16:44,076 --> 00:16:48,436 Speaker 1: that are targeting families of young people with disabilities are 233 00:16:48,436 --> 00:16:53,076 Speaker 1: in no way, shape or form grounded in the values 234 00:16:53,116 --> 00:16:56,636 Speaker 1: of communities of color. You know my husband who you'll 235 00:16:56,716 --> 00:16:58,756 Speaker 1: laugh about this since you're a fam grad. My husband's 236 00:16:58,756 --> 00:17:03,316 Speaker 1: a Howard grad. And my husband has a vision impairment. 237 00:17:04,196 --> 00:17:07,556 Speaker 1: And he grew up in South Carolina and didn't realize 238 00:17:07,556 --> 00:17:09,876 Speaker 1: that he could get large print book until after he 239 00:17:09,916 --> 00:17:15,196 Speaker 1: graduated Howard. He thought that everybody spent six plus hours 240 00:17:15,196 --> 00:17:18,476 Speaker 1: a night doing the reading to keep up. It wasn't 241 00:17:18,556 --> 00:17:21,636 Speaker 1: until right before he graduated, where somebody was like, you know, 242 00:17:21,636 --> 00:17:23,116 Speaker 1: you can get large print or you can get books 243 00:17:23,116 --> 00:17:26,476 Speaker 1: on tape, And he talked to his parents about it, 244 00:17:26,516 --> 00:17:28,956 Speaker 1: and his parents were like, we knew raising you in 245 00:17:29,036 --> 00:17:32,676 Speaker 1: South Carolina, where the state only guarantees a minimally adequate 246 00:17:32,756 --> 00:17:38,236 Speaker 1: public education, that if we would have advocated for accommodations 247 00:17:38,276 --> 00:17:40,716 Speaker 1: for you, they would have automatically pushed you into special 248 00:17:40,796 --> 00:17:44,796 Speaker 1: education and that would have been it. And so I 249 00:17:44,836 --> 00:17:47,276 Speaker 1: think there is a lot of fear, and it's grounded 250 00:17:47,316 --> 00:17:51,076 Speaker 1: in what the black community knows about segregation. You know, 251 00:17:51,156 --> 00:17:54,716 Speaker 1: we've never talked about the rights of students with disabilities 252 00:17:54,716 --> 00:17:58,396 Speaker 1: in the education space as civil rights. We always talk 253 00:17:58,476 --> 00:18:01,916 Speaker 1: about moving people to a separate classroom, And so I 254 00:18:01,916 --> 00:18:04,836 Speaker 1: think there needs to be a lot of talking about 255 00:18:05,236 --> 00:18:07,956 Speaker 1: what are the civil rights of students of color with 256 00:18:07,996 --> 00:18:11,276 Speaker 1: disabilities starting and education and moving throughout the world because 257 00:18:11,516 --> 00:18:17,636 Speaker 1: people aren't informed, No, they're not. And for me, there 258 00:18:17,716 --> 00:18:23,356 Speaker 1: is nothing scarier than those times in which I knew 259 00:18:23,396 --> 00:18:29,796 Speaker 1: my brother had to in some capacity interact with the police. Yeah, 260 00:18:30,236 --> 00:18:35,716 Speaker 1: and specifically in recent years I've begun to see, of course, 261 00:18:35,836 --> 00:18:40,556 Speaker 1: through all sorts of cases and certainly videos why we 262 00:18:40,556 --> 00:18:44,076 Speaker 1: were always scared, why my parents were always scared. But 263 00:18:44,316 --> 00:18:47,636 Speaker 1: it's not just, of course, parents of color who have 264 00:18:47,716 --> 00:18:51,236 Speaker 1: children with disabilities. It's white parents too. It seems as 265 00:18:51,236 --> 00:18:56,196 Speaker 1: if this is a systemic issue of the police killing 266 00:18:56,276 --> 00:19:00,116 Speaker 1: people with disabilities. And I think there's many ways in 267 00:19:00,156 --> 00:19:03,716 Speaker 1: which we can talk about police violence. There are many 268 00:19:03,756 --> 00:19:07,836 Speaker 1: ways in which police violence, specifically in the United States 269 00:19:08,716 --> 00:19:15,476 Speaker 1: demos strates itself to be really chaos, to be a scourge. 270 00:19:16,396 --> 00:19:19,796 Speaker 1: But for me, I don't know of a way that 271 00:19:19,916 --> 00:19:24,996 Speaker 1: police violence is worse than when we're speaking about the 272 00:19:25,116 --> 00:19:27,596 Speaker 1: number of people with disabilities who are killed, and then 273 00:19:27,636 --> 00:19:30,076 Speaker 1: even the number of people with disabilities who are in prison, 274 00:19:30,916 --> 00:19:32,916 Speaker 1: and the number of those people who are who are 275 00:19:32,956 --> 00:19:36,516 Speaker 1: people of color, and the number of people of color 276 00:19:36,636 --> 00:19:42,396 Speaker 1: who leave the carceral system who have acquired disabilities while 277 00:19:42,436 --> 00:19:48,236 Speaker 1: in there because of the intense trauma of incarceration, and 278 00:19:48,356 --> 00:19:53,676 Speaker 1: there's no connection to a community, there's no connection to 279 00:19:54,036 --> 00:19:59,396 Speaker 1: understanding what your rights are. We deal with situations where 280 00:19:59,396 --> 00:20:02,996 Speaker 1: people who are deaf are not given qualified sign language 281 00:20:02,996 --> 00:20:07,516 Speaker 1: interpreters when engaging with their lawyers, and it is terrifying, 282 00:20:07,596 --> 00:20:10,316 Speaker 1: and it starts in the schools, And I mean that's 283 00:20:10,316 --> 00:20:14,236 Speaker 1: a significant issue around school resource officers. We had a 284 00:20:14,276 --> 00:20:17,876 Speaker 1: situation even with our son a few years ago where 285 00:20:18,076 --> 00:20:21,436 Speaker 1: a para professional and the after school program thought it 286 00:20:21,436 --> 00:20:23,076 Speaker 1: would be funny to pick up our son and put 287 00:20:23,116 --> 00:20:27,996 Speaker 1: him on top of the refrigerator and walk away. And 288 00:20:28,236 --> 00:20:30,996 Speaker 1: he's a little person like I am, so we tend 289 00:20:31,036 --> 00:20:34,156 Speaker 1: to be a little wary of heights in general. His 290 00:20:34,316 --> 00:20:37,276 Speaker 1: friends got very upset and went and got another teacher. 291 00:20:38,196 --> 00:20:40,316 Speaker 1: By the time the other teacher had finally shown up, 292 00:20:40,396 --> 00:20:42,916 Speaker 1: they had pulled him down. And so our son is 293 00:20:42,996 --> 00:20:46,116 Speaker 1: very headstrong and didn't say anything to us. We got 294 00:20:46,116 --> 00:20:48,196 Speaker 1: to call that night from both of his best friend's 295 00:20:48,276 --> 00:20:49,956 Speaker 1: parents who were like, did you hear what happened to 296 00:20:50,036 --> 00:20:52,756 Speaker 1: Jackson today? And you know, my husband was talking to 297 00:20:52,836 --> 00:20:55,676 Speaker 1: him that night, was like, so what happened and he 298 00:20:55,876 --> 00:20:58,836 Speaker 1: was like, oh, they thought it was funny and was 299 00:20:58,876 --> 00:21:01,516 Speaker 1: like jump off and pat And my husband was like, 300 00:21:01,596 --> 00:21:04,756 Speaker 1: don't ever, don't listen to random, average eight people telling 301 00:21:04,756 --> 00:21:06,996 Speaker 1: you anything. You're very lucky that you have friends that 302 00:21:07,036 --> 00:21:08,396 Speaker 1: care about you, but that's the kind of thing you 303 00:21:08,396 --> 00:21:10,876 Speaker 1: want to tell Mama that about when you come home. Yeah, 304 00:21:11,716 --> 00:21:15,916 Speaker 1: you know, having to teach them, having to acknowledge the 305 00:21:16,036 --> 00:21:18,716 Speaker 1: hurt and that it's not okay, and that they have 306 00:21:18,796 --> 00:21:20,956 Speaker 1: a right to their bodily autonomy and they have a 307 00:21:21,036 --> 00:21:24,596 Speaker 1: right to their privacy, and also at the same time, 308 00:21:24,716 --> 00:21:28,156 Speaker 1: having that conversation around safety and being like, you're not 309 00:21:28,156 --> 00:21:30,276 Speaker 1: going to be able to pick every fight. It's more 310 00:21:30,316 --> 00:21:33,436 Speaker 1: important to me that you come home safe. And I 311 00:21:33,476 --> 00:21:35,596 Speaker 1: mean that's the reality for so many families of kids 312 00:21:35,636 --> 00:21:41,276 Speaker 1: with disabilities. I think growing up watching people and hearing 313 00:21:41,316 --> 00:21:47,276 Speaker 1: about people mistreat my brother, there were a few things 314 00:21:47,356 --> 00:21:50,756 Speaker 1: that could cause me to want to fight, Yeah, and 315 00:21:50,796 --> 00:21:53,116 Speaker 1: that was always at the top of the list. And 316 00:21:53,876 --> 00:21:57,796 Speaker 1: he knew that, so he would not tell me, especially 317 00:21:57,796 --> 00:22:00,036 Speaker 1: when it was something happening at school, even when it 318 00:22:00,116 --> 00:22:05,276 Speaker 1: was something happening you know, at work. Yep. So how 319 00:22:05,316 --> 00:22:10,956 Speaker 1: should we seek to be allies? Because obviously, you know, 320 00:22:10,996 --> 00:22:15,956 Speaker 1: ableism is so rampant, and certainly people with disabilities want 321 00:22:15,956 --> 00:22:19,636 Speaker 1: to protect their allies. And so I guess, how should 322 00:22:19,676 --> 00:22:23,196 Speaker 1: we be responding. Should I have went and try to 323 00:22:23,196 --> 00:22:27,116 Speaker 1: fight everybody? Like? What should should I be doing that? Now? 324 00:22:28,316 --> 00:22:32,476 Speaker 1: I think part of it is doing this is starting 325 00:22:32,476 --> 00:22:35,916 Speaker 1: the conversation and actively talking about it. I mean, we 326 00:22:35,996 --> 00:22:40,396 Speaker 1: literally build buildings to ship off our disabled people. That's 327 00:22:40,396 --> 00:22:44,236 Speaker 1: how hidden it is. Doris Day had a talk show 328 00:22:44,236 --> 00:22:47,356 Speaker 1: in the fifties and she talked about moving her sister 329 00:22:47,476 --> 00:22:51,796 Speaker 1: home from an institution, and it was considered so radical, 330 00:22:52,796 --> 00:22:56,436 Speaker 1: and that's still considered radical. When I worked in the 331 00:22:56,476 --> 00:22:58,876 Speaker 1: Obama White House, one of my favorite things to do 332 00:22:58,996 --> 00:23:02,716 Speaker 1: was to give White House tours because people wouldn't expect 333 00:23:02,836 --> 00:23:05,436 Speaker 1: me to be the person giving the tour. I remember 334 00:23:05,436 --> 00:23:07,516 Speaker 1: giving a tour to a civil rights a well established 335 00:23:07,516 --> 00:23:10,076 Speaker 1: civil rights leader, who was like, oh, my gosh, it's 336 00:23:10,076 --> 00:23:12,236 Speaker 1: so cute that you're here. Are you here as part 337 00:23:12,276 --> 00:23:18,436 Speaker 1: of a charity program? And I remember being like, no, 338 00:23:18,596 --> 00:23:21,396 Speaker 1: I'm President Obama's chief diversity officer. I'm in charge of 339 00:23:21,396 --> 00:23:23,756 Speaker 1: diversity hiring for the administration, and I do tours on 340 00:23:23,796 --> 00:23:26,236 Speaker 1: the weekend because it's fun and it's important that people 341 00:23:26,316 --> 00:23:29,676 Speaker 1: understand that they're disabled people that work here, and giving 342 00:23:29,676 --> 00:23:32,916 Speaker 1: tours to young kids with disabilities in particular, and like 343 00:23:32,956 --> 00:23:35,196 Speaker 1: showing them the roots around the White House and showing them, oh, 344 00:23:35,236 --> 00:23:37,516 Speaker 1: this is the ramp that FDR set up so that 345 00:23:37,556 --> 00:23:40,756 Speaker 1: the press would never see him in a wheelchair. This matters, 346 00:23:40,756 --> 00:23:46,276 Speaker 1: this is our history. Talking about your brother matters, and 347 00:23:46,356 --> 00:23:49,996 Speaker 1: so I think what allies can really do is do 348 00:23:50,036 --> 00:23:53,156 Speaker 1: the homework, use the Google, do your reading, talk to 349 00:23:53,236 --> 00:23:57,596 Speaker 1: people and talk about disability and ableism. When you're talking 350 00:23:57,636 --> 00:24:00,436 Speaker 1: about racism, when you're talking about homophobia, when you're talking 351 00:24:00,436 --> 00:24:07,716 Speaker 1: about sexism, acknowledge the commonalities, acknowledge the differences. I remember 352 00:24:07,756 --> 00:24:12,876 Speaker 1: the first time I had heard any politician actually say 353 00:24:12,916 --> 00:24:17,436 Speaker 1: the word ableism. It was Julian Castro, and I remember 354 00:24:17,516 --> 00:24:20,756 Speaker 1: just being like, oh my gosh, he said it, and 355 00:24:20,796 --> 00:24:23,036 Speaker 1: like tweeting his team and being like, holy buckets he 356 00:24:23,076 --> 00:24:25,556 Speaker 1: said it. They're like, we told you he would. You know. 357 00:24:25,596 --> 00:24:29,356 Speaker 1: In this last year, we actually had eleven presidential candidates 358 00:24:29,436 --> 00:24:33,156 Speaker 1: right disability platforms, which had never happened before. And it 359 00:24:33,196 --> 00:24:34,716 Speaker 1: took a lot of work, and it took a lot 360 00:24:34,716 --> 00:24:36,956 Speaker 1: of honestly, like sitting with candidates and being like, no, 361 00:24:37,116 --> 00:24:39,756 Speaker 1: let's help you practice saying the word disability, because they 362 00:24:39,756 --> 00:24:41,836 Speaker 1: would go to special needs, they would go to differently 363 00:24:41,876 --> 00:24:45,716 Speaker 1: abled And for us, the reason we like disability is 364 00:24:45,716 --> 00:24:49,596 Speaker 1: it's a specific, deliberate tide to civil rights. We've been 365 00:24:49,636 --> 00:24:52,716 Speaker 1: taught to internalize that shame. We've been taught that we 366 00:24:52,716 --> 00:24:55,596 Speaker 1: don't talk about it, that we act like it's not there, 367 00:24:55,716 --> 00:24:58,276 Speaker 1: and then we don't get our needs met. We aren't included. 368 00:24:58,876 --> 00:25:01,996 Speaker 1: Just as the notion of a colorblind society is bullshit, 369 00:25:02,436 --> 00:25:05,196 Speaker 1: so is the idea where people say, see the person, 370 00:25:05,276 --> 00:25:07,196 Speaker 1: not the disability. No, I need you to see my 371 00:25:07,236 --> 00:25:08,876 Speaker 1: disability and I need you to see it as a 372 00:25:08,916 --> 00:25:11,716 Speaker 1: fun a mental part of who I am. And for 373 00:25:11,836 --> 00:25:18,036 Speaker 1: able bodied people to no longer imagine themselves as normal, yeah, 374 00:25:18,196 --> 00:25:22,556 Speaker 1: just as white folks should not imagine themselves as normal 375 00:25:22,716 --> 00:25:26,756 Speaker 1: and men should not imagine themselves as normal. Definitely, in 376 00:25:26,796 --> 00:25:33,036 Speaker 1: so many different ways we've normalized particular groups, not understanding 377 00:25:33,036 --> 00:25:38,036 Speaker 1: that that normalization is based on different forms of bigotry that, 378 00:25:38,116 --> 00:25:41,156 Speaker 1: as you stated earlier, ultimately emerge from the same tree. 379 00:25:41,836 --> 00:25:48,516 Speaker 1: And particularly destigmatizing mental illness I think is one of 380 00:25:48,556 --> 00:25:51,636 Speaker 1: the most important things that we can do, and really 381 00:25:51,756 --> 00:25:55,556 Speaker 1: combating the notion that the mind and body are separate 382 00:25:55,556 --> 00:25:59,356 Speaker 1: and that mental health is different than physical health when 383 00:25:59,356 --> 00:26:03,556 Speaker 1: it is all one system. How do we as a 384 00:26:03,636 --> 00:26:09,796 Speaker 1: nation eliminate ableism, particularly from an anti race standpoint, I 385 00:26:09,916 --> 00:26:15,836 Speaker 1: say eliminate because certainly there can be gradual approaches which 386 00:26:15,956 --> 00:26:19,636 Speaker 1: particularly may be easier for able bodied people, but I mean, 387 00:26:19,796 --> 00:26:23,516 Speaker 1: what should we be rallying around. One is massive civil 388 00:26:23,556 --> 00:26:27,796 Speaker 1: rights enforcement. We've never had enforcement of the ADA. People 389 00:26:27,836 --> 00:26:29,836 Speaker 1: will say, well, why don't you call the ADA when 390 00:26:29,836 --> 00:26:32,876 Speaker 1: you get discriminated again? And I always joke it's not 391 00:26:32,916 --> 00:26:34,796 Speaker 1: like an eight hundred number that sends down a team 392 00:26:34,836 --> 00:26:38,916 Speaker 1: of like customer service ninjas that might build a ramp 393 00:26:39,076 --> 00:26:42,676 Speaker 1: or like kick somebody's But I wish it was like that, gosh, 394 00:26:42,676 --> 00:26:45,836 Speaker 1: that would take a lot of money, but actively fight 395 00:26:45,956 --> 00:26:48,196 Speaker 1: for the enforcement of these laws, which I think is 396 00:26:48,236 --> 00:26:53,476 Speaker 1: really critical thinking through the enforcement of ADA. How can 397 00:26:53,516 --> 00:26:58,476 Speaker 1: we structurally ensure that it is enforced? Do you think 398 00:26:58,956 --> 00:27:05,796 Speaker 1: that the Justice Department needs to be honestly, we need 399 00:27:05,916 --> 00:27:09,516 Speaker 1: robust funding of civil rights enforcement across the board, Yeah, 400 00:27:09,676 --> 00:27:16,676 Speaker 1: across race, disability, LGBT, immigration. You know, doing each of 401 00:27:16,676 --> 00:27:18,596 Speaker 1: these things and silos has not worked out for us 402 00:27:18,676 --> 00:27:22,036 Speaker 1: well so far. How do we walk in lockstep with 403 00:27:22,076 --> 00:27:26,196 Speaker 1: each other and hold each other accountable, but also hold 404 00:27:26,236 --> 00:27:29,276 Speaker 1: the government accountable for what has not been done. How 405 00:27:29,316 --> 00:27:33,796 Speaker 1: do we design reparations in a way that doesn't negatively 406 00:27:33,836 --> 00:27:36,636 Speaker 1: impact the health insurance of black disabled people? How do 407 00:27:36,716 --> 00:27:40,556 Speaker 1: we think about immigration reform and the public charge in 408 00:27:40,596 --> 00:27:43,196 Speaker 1: such a way that it lifts up those that need 409 00:27:43,276 --> 00:27:47,356 Speaker 1: personal care assistance. It goes beyond thinking about our movements 410 00:27:47,356 --> 00:27:50,676 Speaker 1: and silos and saying, you know, how do we actually 411 00:27:50,716 --> 00:27:55,756 Speaker 1: get at those that are most directly impacted? And what's 412 00:27:55,796 --> 00:28:00,556 Speaker 1: fascinating is, I think you have able bodied people who 413 00:28:00,596 --> 00:28:05,396 Speaker 1: will say, well, if we do have well funded enforcement 414 00:28:06,156 --> 00:28:12,676 Speaker 1: in regulations that ensure people would abilities have opportunities and resources, 415 00:28:12,796 --> 00:28:16,276 Speaker 1: people consistently think, well, then somehow I'm going to be 416 00:28:16,516 --> 00:28:20,116 Speaker 1: punished or hurt or deprived as opposed to I think 417 00:28:20,116 --> 00:28:25,516 Speaker 1: what you're speaking to is if we truly did have 418 00:28:25,956 --> 00:28:30,596 Speaker 1: robust enforcement of our civil rights laws, it would benefit 419 00:28:30,916 --> 00:28:33,956 Speaker 1: almost everyone. And I think we continue to be told 420 00:28:34,316 --> 00:28:39,636 Speaker 1: from white, non disabled SYS society that civil rights are 421 00:28:39,756 --> 00:28:45,316 Speaker 1: extra and that we're asking for special treatment. We hear 422 00:28:45,396 --> 00:28:48,316 Speaker 1: that all the time when the reality is is like, no, 423 00:28:48,396 --> 00:28:51,316 Speaker 1: this has been the law for thirty years. Yeah, I mean, 424 00:28:51,356 --> 00:28:53,156 Speaker 1: I should be able to go to the bank around 425 00:28:53,156 --> 00:28:55,036 Speaker 1: the corner from my house here in Washington, d C. 426 00:28:55,196 --> 00:28:57,716 Speaker 1: Without having to scale the wall to reach the ATM. 427 00:28:58,276 --> 00:29:03,316 Speaker 1: And it's not about extra It's about basic, fundamental access 428 00:29:03,396 --> 00:29:05,196 Speaker 1: to the civil rights we all have as human beings 429 00:29:05,196 --> 00:29:07,916 Speaker 1: on this planet or we should have as human beings 430 00:29:07,916 --> 00:29:14,836 Speaker 1: on this planet. And it's also present an urgent right 431 00:29:14,876 --> 00:29:19,836 Speaker 1: now because we're seeing a rise in people with disabilities 432 00:29:19,876 --> 00:29:24,116 Speaker 1: after COVID. Many of them are struggling to get disability benefits. 433 00:29:24,436 --> 00:29:27,076 Speaker 1: Yeah you know, they said roughly one third of people 434 00:29:27,116 --> 00:29:29,436 Speaker 1: with COVID will have long haul symptoms. So we're talking 435 00:29:29,476 --> 00:29:35,036 Speaker 1: at least ten million plus new disabled people in our 436 00:29:35,076 --> 00:29:38,396 Speaker 1: country that might not realize that they count under the ADA, 437 00:29:38,636 --> 00:29:40,316 Speaker 1: might not realize that when they go back to work 438 00:29:40,356 --> 00:29:43,316 Speaker 1: they can ask for time off or an amended schedule 439 00:29:43,356 --> 00:29:47,036 Speaker 1: to access a doctor or a therapist. And I think 440 00:29:47,076 --> 00:29:50,236 Speaker 1: now more than ever, coming out of the pandemic, I mean, 441 00:29:50,396 --> 00:29:54,316 Speaker 1: COVID has highlighted what disabled people knew decades ago, like 442 00:29:54,476 --> 00:29:58,596 Speaker 1: we are viewed as disposable. And yes, folks might not 443 00:29:58,636 --> 00:30:01,996 Speaker 1: be ready to identify politically or culturally as part of 444 00:30:01,996 --> 00:30:07,476 Speaker 1: the disability community, but we have a fundamental responsibility to 445 00:30:07,556 --> 00:30:10,716 Speaker 1: be resources to them, meet them where they are, and 446 00:30:11,036 --> 00:30:14,636 Speaker 1: help support them in this transition because we do know better, 447 00:30:14,676 --> 00:30:16,236 Speaker 1: we do know how it works, we do know how 448 00:30:16,276 --> 00:30:18,956 Speaker 1: to deal with these systems and what our rights and 449 00:30:18,996 --> 00:30:23,756 Speaker 1: responsibilities are under law, and nobody's informing them precisely, and 450 00:30:24,676 --> 00:30:30,236 Speaker 1: so I suspect people are thinking, Okay, what can they do? 451 00:30:30,876 --> 00:30:34,436 Speaker 1: We've spoken broadly, but if we can maybe speak individually 452 00:30:34,636 --> 00:30:38,236 Speaker 1: to people who who may have realized for the first 453 00:30:38,316 --> 00:30:43,796 Speaker 1: time the ways in which they have upheld able they 454 00:30:43,796 --> 00:30:49,876 Speaker 1: have upheld its intersection with racism. They realize that they 455 00:30:49,876 --> 00:30:53,116 Speaker 1: can no longer be passive. You know, in this fight 456 00:30:53,236 --> 00:30:56,356 Speaker 1: for the human rights of everyone. Where should they start? 457 00:30:56,676 --> 00:31:00,876 Speaker 1: I think you start acknowledging ways that you've behaved and 458 00:31:01,036 --> 00:31:04,476 Speaker 1: ablest mindset to the people that you love. I mean people, 459 00:31:04,556 --> 00:31:07,556 Speaker 1: disabilities exist in one third of households. So if we're 460 00:31:07,596 --> 00:31:09,356 Speaker 1: not in your house, we're your neighbor on the right 461 00:31:09,396 --> 00:31:13,036 Speaker 1: or the left, where your brother, where your sister, were 462 00:31:13,076 --> 00:31:17,796 Speaker 1: your parents and acknowledging the learning as a first step, 463 00:31:18,476 --> 00:31:21,756 Speaker 1: what could you be doing differently or more boldly. It 464 00:31:21,916 --> 00:31:28,196 Speaker 1: is just like retraining your brain on acknowledging racial bias 465 00:31:28,196 --> 00:31:31,796 Speaker 1: and racist policies. People think that disability is sort of 466 00:31:31,836 --> 00:31:35,156 Speaker 1: over there, when once you start noticing, you start noticing 467 00:31:35,156 --> 00:31:38,676 Speaker 1: it everywhere. It is something that you walk over as 468 00:31:38,716 --> 00:31:40,756 Speaker 1: blandly as you walk over a curb cut without the 469 00:31:40,796 --> 00:31:44,596 Speaker 1: recognition that back in the sixties and seventies, disabled people 470 00:31:44,596 --> 00:31:48,796 Speaker 1: literally took pitchforks to sidewalks in Denver to be able 471 00:31:48,796 --> 00:31:53,916 Speaker 1: to get through their community. Wow, it is pretty apparent 472 00:31:53,956 --> 00:32:01,316 Speaker 1: to me that one cannot be anti racist while still 473 00:32:01,356 --> 00:32:06,956 Speaker 1: being ableist. And that's why I was so happy we 474 00:32:07,036 --> 00:32:10,476 Speaker 1: could have this conversation, because I think for many people 475 00:32:10,556 --> 00:32:16,756 Speaker 1: who are indeed striving to be anti racist, they may 476 00:32:16,796 --> 00:32:20,436 Speaker 1: not realize the ways in which they're still being prevented 477 00:32:20,716 --> 00:32:24,516 Speaker 1: from moving along on this journey due to their unacknowledged 478 00:32:25,356 --> 00:32:29,276 Speaker 1: or unrecognized ableism, or the ways in which they're in denial. 479 00:32:29,476 --> 00:32:31,476 Speaker 1: Then I would say, probably it's the same way the 480 00:32:31,556 --> 00:32:35,076 Speaker 1: other way around. You can't really be anti ableist if 481 00:32:35,116 --> 00:32:38,596 Speaker 1: you're also not striving to be anti racist. I think 482 00:32:38,636 --> 00:32:42,276 Speaker 1: that's so true, and I think it is such an 483 00:32:42,276 --> 00:32:51,996 Speaker 1: opportunity for greater solidarity, greater learning, greater co conspiratorship. Yes, 484 00:32:52,876 --> 00:32:56,116 Speaker 1: especially because this work is hard, this work is unyielding, 485 00:32:56,156 --> 00:33:00,396 Speaker 1: it's never ending, And I look forward to us continuing 486 00:33:00,396 --> 00:33:03,996 Speaker 1: this conversation going forward, because, as you and I both know, 487 00:33:04,036 --> 00:33:06,636 Speaker 1: the work's not going to be done tomorrow. It isn't 488 00:33:06,756 --> 00:33:12,196 Speaker 1: and I'm certainly still learning and growing and recognizing the 489 00:33:12,276 --> 00:33:15,796 Speaker 1: ways in which we indeed need to be co conspiratis. 490 00:33:15,796 --> 00:33:18,596 Speaker 1: So I just want to thank you, Rebecca for taking 491 00:33:18,596 --> 00:33:22,756 Speaker 1: a few minutes with me to really talk this through. Definitely, 492 00:33:22,796 --> 00:33:37,596 Speaker 1: this was fun. We'll do this again. Definitely. Able body 493 00:33:37,676 --> 00:33:42,396 Speaker 1: people of color face racism. White people with disabilities face ableism, 494 00:33:42,396 --> 00:33:45,836 Speaker 1: but neither group faces the twin forces of ableism and 495 00:33:45,956 --> 00:33:50,276 Speaker 1: racism like people of color with disabilities. I admire the 496 00:33:50,316 --> 00:33:54,916 Speaker 1: way Rebecca confronts racism and ableism and disability justice and 497 00:33:55,076 --> 00:33:59,196 Speaker 1: racial justice. She is resolute in defending the humanity of 498 00:33:59,276 --> 00:34:04,276 Speaker 1: people with disabilities, and we must be too. So how 499 00:34:04,316 --> 00:34:07,676 Speaker 1: can we fight back? We must know what to fight 500 00:34:08,036 --> 00:34:12,236 Speaker 1: and how to fight. Read books on ableism. Read memoirs 501 00:34:12,236 --> 00:34:16,436 Speaker 1: of people of color with disabilities. Read their essays and stories. 502 00:34:16,636 --> 00:34:22,356 Speaker 1: Understand their experiences and perspectives and histories. Knowledge can be 503 00:34:22,396 --> 00:34:25,676 Speaker 1: the well spring of empathy and compassion. We learn to 504 00:34:25,796 --> 00:34:31,036 Speaker 1: change ourselves to change our society. Join and support anti 505 00:34:31,156 --> 00:34:38,156 Speaker 1: racist organizations battling ableism. Support anti ablist organizations battling racism. 506 00:34:39,196 --> 00:34:41,596 Speaker 1: Check the show notes for a link to our website. 507 00:34:41,916 --> 00:34:46,396 Speaker 1: There you'll find links to further readings, resources, and organizations 508 00:34:46,396 --> 00:34:50,156 Speaker 1: that are focused on this work. It takes you, It 509 00:34:50,276 --> 00:34:54,716 Speaker 1: takes me, It takes us, It takes eternal hope. It 510 00:34:54,796 --> 00:34:59,916 Speaker 1: takes opening our minds, overcoming fear, being vulnerable, daring ourselves 511 00:34:59,996 --> 00:35:05,556 Speaker 1: to revolutionize ourselves, challenging power and policy to revolutionize society, 512 00:35:06,316 --> 00:35:24,356 Speaker 1: amassing the courage and conviction to be anti racist. Be 513 00:35:24,516 --> 00:35:27,676 Speaker 1: Anti Racist is a production of Pushkin Industries and iHeartMedia. 514 00:35:28,116 --> 00:35:30,396 Speaker 1: It is written and hosted by doctor Ebram x Kindy 515 00:35:30,436 --> 00:35:34,036 Speaker 1: and produced by Alexandra Garraton with associate producer Brittany Brown. 516 00:35:34,756 --> 00:35:37,716 Speaker 1: Our engineer has been Tyliday, Our editor is Julia Barton, 517 00:35:37,836 --> 00:35:40,996 Speaker 1: and our showrunner is Sasha Matthias. Our executive producers The 518 00:35:41,036 --> 00:35:43,756 Speaker 1: Only Time, WILLD and Me and Lobell. Many thanks to 519 00:35:43,756 --> 00:35:46,276 Speaker 1: Tammy Win and doctor Heather Stanford at the Center for 520 00:35:46,316 --> 00:35:49,236 Speaker 1: Anti Racist Research at Boston University for all of their 521 00:35:49,276 --> 00:35:52,076 Speaker 1: help at Pushkin. Thanks to Heather Fame, Parley meg Leori, 522 00:35:52,276 --> 00:35:55,596 Speaker 1: John Schnars, and Jacob Weisberg. You can find doctor Kendy 523 00:35:55,636 --> 00:35:58,516 Speaker 1: on Twitter at d r Ebram and on Instagram at 524 00:35:58,516 --> 00:36:01,556 Speaker 1: Ibram x k. You can find Pushkin on all social 525 00:36:01,596 --> 00:36:04,236 Speaker 1: platforms at Pushkin Pods. You can sign up for our 526 00:36:04,276 --> 00:36:07,836 Speaker 1: newsletter at pushkin dot FM. To find more Pushkin podcast 527 00:36:07,996 --> 00:36:11,636 Speaker 1: listen on the iHeart Radio, Apple podcasts, or whatever you 528 00:36:11,636 --> 00:36:16,316 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. Your piece that you wrote in the 529 00:36:16,356 --> 00:36:20,036 Speaker 1: Atlantic is still one of the most circulated pieces among 530 00:36:20,276 --> 00:36:23,716 Speaker 1: our black disabled activists all the time. They talk about 531 00:36:23,756 --> 00:36:27,156 Speaker 1: that piece all the time. So I promised several of 532 00:36:27,196 --> 00:36:30,236 Speaker 1: them I will continue to tell Ibrahm how important that 533 00:36:30,356 --> 00:36:34,036 Speaker 1: people is. Oh my gosh, well, thank you, and please 534 00:36:34,116 --> 00:36:35,516 Speaker 1: tell them I said hello.