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Speaker 1: Air horns, air horns, airhorns, pull a lot of airhorns

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Speaker 1: and straight residence right and yours. I love this one thing.

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Speaker 1: I have not been to a club in a while,

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Speaker 1: so I do miss uh that that reggaeton sound. Prop.

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Speaker 1: How you doing today? This is behind the bastards. I

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Speaker 1: feel like my Marty going through stuff. But I feel

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Speaker 1: like you're about to make it increasingly works, so I'm well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is I'm anticipating being very sadden. This isn't gonna

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Speaker 1: be a happy one. Prop. How do you feel about Ireland?

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Speaker 1: I have a lot of feelings about Ireland, Like like,

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Speaker 1: I feel like Ireland probably got the greatest slang in

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Speaker 1: the whole wide world. Concredible slang, you know, like y'all

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Speaker 1: just y'all just hate everybody, you know. I like the pissiness.

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Speaker 1: I like that you don't take irreverence, you don't take

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Speaker 1: nothing serious, you know. Yeah, it's the yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you're doing a contest of like islands where a

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Speaker 1: lot of bad things have been done to them. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of competition, you know. But but but boy,

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Speaker 1: Ireland really up up up in the let's say, the

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Speaker 1: top quarter of that pack. They're pretty up there, especially

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Speaker 1: because like they they wouldn't drafted into white people until

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Speaker 1: much later. You know, it did take get to be

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Speaker 1: white too, Like that's cold, that's cold as ice, you know,

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Speaker 1: saying like we'd the northern part of the same island

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Speaker 1: and we can't get to be white people. You know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying. It's it's it's quite a quite a tale. Um. Now,

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Speaker 1: how do you feel about the English? Well, I will

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Speaker 1: say this, they have a track record of just shipping

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Speaker 1: on the rest of the earth for just the most

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Speaker 1: efficient just with the greatest efficiency. Like I'm never like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how that little island was able to

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Speaker 1: shoot on the whole earth as they It'd be fair

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Speaker 1: to say they're like the New England Patriots of nations.

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Speaker 1: It really is just the Tom Brady of country. Just

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Speaker 1: can't lose, I will say, though, you know, yes, I

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Speaker 1: am in the in the midst of finishing, uh top boy.

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Speaker 1: So as of right now, I'm like East London, isn't it,

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, like selling the food. So

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Speaker 1: right now I'm like, now, granted, I will say this,

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Speaker 1: I've noticed what made London cool is what made everything

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Speaker 1: else cool, which is the presence of black people, because

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Speaker 1: why Top Boy is so dope, it's the Jamaican immigrants

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Speaker 1: that like created this whole type of slaying. It's calm, bro,

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Speaker 1: It's that. Yeah, Don'tason, I'm joining is because I'm just like, hey,

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Speaker 1: black people make everything cool. That's It's a big part

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Speaker 1: of why London Calling is such a good album. Um.

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Speaker 1: Now prop today. First off, I'm glad you've been scoping

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Speaker 1: that because we're really going to need to lean on

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Speaker 1: the English accents here for comedy relief, because yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have to do a lot of that. I've

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Speaker 1: been practicing my my posh, so we'll give that a shot. Um.

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Speaker 1: We're talking today about the thing that is most commonly

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Speaker 1: called the potato famine. UM. One thing that Irish people

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Speaker 1: will point out is that there was no such thing

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Speaker 1: as a potato famine. Um. And the argument that will

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Speaker 1: make is that, like, well, there was a potato blight,

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Speaker 1: but Ireland had plenty of food. The famine was entirely caused,

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Speaker 1: but there it was. It was a famine caused by

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Speaker 1: English people, right. It was a famine caused by the

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Speaker 1: the the the ruling class of the British Empire was

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Speaker 1: not a famine caused by a potato bug and that

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Speaker 1: is accurate. Um, yeah, yeah it is. Yeah. No, No,

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Speaker 1: they don't leave it to the Brits to like do

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Speaker 1: a genocide and blame it on a vegetable. Hey, listen, y'all,

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Speaker 1: I'll try to tell you we was just doing mine

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Speaker 1: in our own business and then the potato decided to die.

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Speaker 1: Yeah what what what? What? What do you want us

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Speaker 1: to do? The potato made the call like it's calming

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Speaker 1: all that it is. It is. There's a lot of

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Speaker 1: different takes you see from empires that commit genocides. You know,

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Speaker 1: Turkey just decided to pretend that nothing bad ever happened

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Speaker 1: to Armenian people. Uh. The Germans seemed broadly to have

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Speaker 1: embraced that they did some bad things. But yeah, they're

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Speaker 1: down there at least say, okay, guys, the British pointing

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Speaker 1: to produce in the grocery store and being like, no,

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Speaker 1: that's what you gotta be angry at. Um. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you have a dated somebody who was just

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Speaker 1: ferociously never wrong, like would say stuff, that's like there's

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Speaker 1: being right and then there's being less right. And I

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Speaker 1: think in this situation, I'm just less right. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: that's that's that's that's England again. Yeah, that's that's that's

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Speaker 1: the old that's that's old john Bull Um, which is

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Speaker 1: the thing that people used to call England. Um. So

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Speaker 1: have you ever have you ever been to Ireland? Prop? No, man,

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Speaker 1: It's it's on my bucket list. I've been there a bunch.

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Speaker 1: I love. I love going to Ireland, particularly I really

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Speaker 1: like Dublin. And if you if you go to Dublin,

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Speaker 1: which is a beautiful town, um always pretty great too.

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Speaker 1: I like, there's a lot of great places in Ireland.

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Speaker 1: But if you go to Dublin UM and you head

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Speaker 1: to Custom House K you will see a series of

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Speaker 1: statues and they're kind of There's like this street, you know,

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Speaker 1: with a sidewalk next to it, and there's a bunch

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Speaker 1: of statues of like wraith like human beings marching along

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Speaker 1: this this little chunk of sidewalk. There's a one of

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Speaker 1: them has a mother clutching a diving, dying baby to

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Speaker 1: a breast. The other is like carrying either just like

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Speaker 1: a past or the corpse of a starved child over

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Speaker 1: her shoulders and it's it's it sounds terrible. It's the

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Speaker 1: famine memorial, and it's a really really affecting memorial, and

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Speaker 1: it's just kind of like in the middle of things,

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Speaker 1: you know, um, and there It's one of those one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons I really appreciate that memorials. If you

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Speaker 1: do spend a lot of time, as I have, in

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Speaker 1: parts of the world where you come across like starving

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Speaker 1: people and refugees. It's some whoever made the memorial new

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Speaker 1: I knew what they were doing, and I think there

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Speaker 1: was like a conscious attempt to uh like there was

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Speaker 1: an understanding of like how that looks. It's it's pretty affecting. Um.

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Speaker 1: So that's what we're going to talk about today, and

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Speaker 1: it was yeah, yeah, the not a potato famine. Um.

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Speaker 1: And it is interesting that these and I think what's

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Speaker 1: sound kind of so compelling about this to me is

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Speaker 1: that like all of the people who died and the

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Speaker 1: thing we're about to talk about, um, this this was

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Speaker 1: I think it's fair to say an act of genocide.

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Speaker 1: That's certainly something that like one of our main sources

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Speaker 1: today of Tim pat Coogan, will claim, but it was

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Speaker 1: not a genocide. That kind of Usually when you have

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Speaker 1: something like this, it comes as the result of like

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Speaker 1: a civil war or at least a bloody conflict of

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Speaker 1: some there's some sort of like fight, um, and then

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Speaker 1: there is kind of an ethnic cleansing or a killing. UM.

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Speaker 1: That's not really the case with the Great Hunger. Um.

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Speaker 1: It's it's more a genocide that's kind of the result

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Speaker 1: of pure venal greed and free market ideology taken to

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Speaker 1: the status of a religion. Um. And it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: quite a tale. We're going to discuss the death toll

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Speaker 1: a little bit later. For now, I'm just going to

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Speaker 1: point out that the pre famine population of Ireland was

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Speaker 1: a little bit less than nine million people. UM. Today

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Speaker 1: there are just north of five million people in Ireland. UM.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, last year is when Ireland first reached

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Speaker 1: five million in population since the famine. UM it is

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Speaker 1: probably yeah, it's probably the only nation on earth to

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Speaker 1: have fewer people today than it did in the eighteen forties. UM. Wow, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: man's is proper wicked. Brov that the peace for the food.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm sorry, like I'm really deep into top

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Speaker 1: boy right now. That's that's that's fine. I'm I'm very

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Speaker 1: deep into I'm still gearing up to to try out

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Speaker 1: my my English accent. We we we dusted it off

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Speaker 1: for one of the Kissinger episodes and you you were

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Speaker 1: going off in we were going off a little bit.

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Speaker 1: We were trying to do that, like and so yeah,

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Speaker 1: the thing about my like, I know it's bad, but

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Speaker 1: the best part about like how to do this one

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Speaker 1: is because it's part Jamaican, So you can kind of

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Speaker 1: like if you lean to Pat Swa, it's like it's

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Speaker 1: okay because they're Jamaican immigrants, you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: So like that's my only out. But at the same time, bro,

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Speaker 1: it's calm, bro, like it's not good. I know it's

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Speaker 1: not good. You know. The best I can do is well,

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Speaker 1: I don't see why we have to have people who

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Speaker 1: aren't English on the planet. It doesn't seem really particularly feasible.

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Speaker 1: But both hand Hannah in apology apologize, I mean yes,

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Speaker 1: at the same time for a number of this is great,

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Speaker 1: though I do apologize ahead of time anytime I do

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Speaker 1: a British accent to Jake, Um, my greatest, my good, my,

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Speaker 1: my posh. My post British is give them the old

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Speaker 1: what Fall. There we go nailing it, but the old

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Speaker 1: what Fall. I will say this though I know this

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Speaker 1: after touring through the UK enough, like doing music, like

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Speaker 1: I finally figured out like that there and of course

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Speaker 1: does that. There's like regional accents, so like I get

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Speaker 1: it now when you're like in Birmingham, they do the

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Speaker 1: Birmingham like they got that that that thing. Well, I

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Speaker 1: think what we can certainly say is that we will

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Speaker 1: be getting revenge for all of England's crimes by doing

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Speaker 1: a variety of bad Yeah. Yeah, you was able to

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Speaker 1: conquer the world. The least you can do is have

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Speaker 1: to tolerate. Yeah, you're gonna get angry when I mispronounced

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Speaker 1: Northampton or whatever. Um. So to explain how all of

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Speaker 1: this happened, um, how like so many people were killed,

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Speaker 1: um or we're allowed to die, We're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: go back in history quite a bit to the very

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Speaker 1: birth of the British Empire um, because in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways, Ireland was kind of the first colonial possession

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Speaker 1: of the Empire. UM. Now, prior to English conquest of Ireland, UM,

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Speaker 1: the island maintained a history of pretty ferocious independence. It

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Speaker 1: was never even close to being colonized by the Romans.

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Speaker 1: They kind of like stop at at Scotland more or less,

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Speaker 1: like they're trying to get up north, but they build

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Speaker 1: that wall like it's a mess, you know, trying to

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Speaker 1: trying to get up that far as you might know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: England not super close to Rome. Uh, Ireland, it's already

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Speaker 1: far just far enough, you know. So you know, the

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Speaker 1: Ireland pretty pretty much doing its own thing for that

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Speaker 1: period of time, and then in like ten sixties six

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Speaker 1: you get the Normans, which are kind of like basically

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Speaker 1: the French conquer England um. And then after that point,

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Speaker 1: you know the English kings or Norman kings, right, so

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Speaker 1: not that long after the Norman's conquered England. In Ireland,

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Speaker 1: there's this guy, Brian Beru, who is a high king

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Speaker 1: and he the Normans try to invade Ireland and he

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Speaker 1: defeats their armies and throws them back um or at

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Speaker 1: least that's kind of how history is often summarized. The

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Speaker 1: reality is a lot more complex. But you know this

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Speaker 1: is not that in depth of an Irish history podcast.

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Speaker 1: So like most parts of medieval Europe, Ireland, you know,

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Speaker 1: you've got a bunch of little kingdoms. You've got a

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Speaker 1: bunch of like different kings, and they're all at war

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Speaker 1: with each other pretty often, like most places in the world. Um,

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Speaker 1: you got a bunch of people who are fighting with

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Speaker 1: each other all the time. Um. And so while the

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Speaker 1: Normans are in charge in England, there's this Irish king

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Speaker 1: named Jarmide and mcmurra um and he he gets into

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a scrap with some of his neighbors.

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Speaker 1: So he kind of accidentally on purpose kidnaps the wife

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Speaker 1: of one of his rivals. Um and that doesn't go

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Speaker 1: great for him, So he he winds up in fighting

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Speaker 1: the Normans to Ireland to help him deal with this

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Speaker 1: little squabble. Um, which will prove to have been a mistake.

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Speaker 1: You don't invite the eye number one. Yeah, So all

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Speaker 1: this is happening, and like the mid eleven hundreds, right this,

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Speaker 1: this Irish king is like, hey, Norman's come on over,

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Speaker 1: help me out. I kidnapped a lady and it didn't

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Speaker 1: go great for me. Um. And and when the Normans

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Speaker 1: get invited over to Ireland, there's a pope, right, you know,

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Speaker 1: popes are a big deal. In the eleven hundreds, there's

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Speaker 1: not really like that's kind of the only game in

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Speaker 1: town unless you're going orthodox, right, Like, if you're a Christian,

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Speaker 1: it's it's pretty much the popes or nothing. Um. And

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Speaker 1: the pope at this time was a guy named Adrian

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Speaker 1: and he's actually the only english person they've ever let

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Speaker 1: be pope. Um, which might key you went on how

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Speaker 1: bad an idea it was to let an English person

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Speaker 1: be the Yeah, this is the last time they try that.

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Speaker 1: Ship they bring us, they bring a Nazi and to

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Speaker 1: be pope before they let another British person. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: and they got they got a pretty spicy track record

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Speaker 1: for him to be like, I don't know about you know,

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Speaker 1: that didn't work out at all. Um. So Adrian, uh,

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Speaker 1: this English pope he uh, the Norman's kind of come

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Speaker 1: to him and they're like, they work out a deal,

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Speaker 1: and so he gives the King of England at this point,

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Speaker 1: Henry the Second a papal bull, which is like, you know,

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Speaker 1: a pope uh announcement law type deally right, when the

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Speaker 1: pope declares the thing that's a papal bull kind of Um,

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Speaker 1: my Catholic audience is screening at me for inaccurately describing

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Speaker 1: what a papal bull is. But whatever he issues, this

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Speaker 1: papal bull that legitimizes their invasion of the Ireland. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so there's this basically what it what has happened

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Speaker 1: here is the English Crown have made a deal with

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Speaker 1: the papacy to colonize Ireland, which is seen as wild

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Speaker 1: and still pretty pagan. Um. So that's that that that's

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Speaker 1: what happens at this point when the Normans get invited over,

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Speaker 1: they make this deal with the Pope to to christianize

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Speaker 1: the pagan Irish um and to discuss what comes back

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Speaker 1: for a good practice for the America's, for the America's

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Speaker 1: for I mean, that's one of the points that like

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Speaker 1: there's a pretty good book called The Invention of the

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Speaker 1: White Race that goes into this some more detail. But

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Speaker 1: like most of the techniques that the British Empire would

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Speaker 1: use in places in Southeast Asia and Africa in in

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Speaker 1: the America's, we're kind of tested out in Ireland, right

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Speaker 1: in the Ireland. Yeah, um. And for what comes next year.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to read a quote by Irish scholar Tim

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Speaker 1: pat Coogan in his book The Famine Plot. From the

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Speaker 1: Vatican's point of view, the attraction of this arrangement lay

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Speaker 1: in the fact that Rome would exert its authority through

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Speaker 1: the appointment of hand picked bishops, rather than having to

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Speaker 1: struggle to assert its influence over powerful Irish abbots, who

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Speaker 1: hitherto had often been appointed by the families who controlled

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Speaker 1: the extensive church lands and monasteries. The attraction for the

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Speaker 1: Normans was straightforward. It gave them access to Irish Land, which,

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Speaker 1: with their advances and agriculture, they were able to exploit

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Speaker 1: far more profitably than where the cattle hurting Irish, and

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Speaker 1: so Christ and Caesar came to be hand in glove. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: when Henry the eighth defied the Pope by divorcing his

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Speaker 1: wife to marry Anne Boleyn, the gloves came off between

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Speaker 1: King and Pope, with disastrous results for the Irish. From

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Speaker 1: the time of Henry the Eighth's breaking with Rome, England

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Speaker 1: became a Protestant nation and Ireland remained a Catholic one. Thus,

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Speaker 1: apart from the inevitable attempts by a large country to

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Speaker 1: subordinate a smaller country, England's religious wars became superimposed on Ireland. Also,

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Speaker 1: not alone would the Catholic Irish lose their lands, they

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Speaker 1: would also be forced to pay for the upkeep of

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Speaker 1: the Protestant clergy. Not surprisingly, in a land where the

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Speaker 1: poet is both feared and revered, Native Irish resentment at

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Speaker 1: the superimposition of Protestantism found its expression, and a bitter

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Speaker 1: verse by Rafferty, the famous blind Irish poet, don't talk

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Speaker 1: of your Protestant minister or his church without temple or state,

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Speaker 1: for the foundation stone of his religion was the bollox

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Speaker 1: of Henry the Eighth. Well, pretty good little poem. That's

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Speaker 1: good that I would love to see. Like, man, I

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Speaker 1: wish there was like an alternate, like sort of multiverse

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Speaker 1: timeline where the Irish just rejected the idea of joining whiteness.

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Speaker 1: It's just if they're just like you know what, man, nah,

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Speaker 1: fam nah, you know what I'm saying, Like, I just

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Speaker 1: wonder like where we would be at now. Obviously our

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Speaker 1: understanding of race being so intermixed with like colorism and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that, But what if the influence was just

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Speaker 1: like buck y'all, nah, we ain't one of you, I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: because of ship like this, where it's like not only

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Speaker 1: did y'all try to colonize us, you even tried to like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, y'all sprayes off faith on us to you

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Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, which was like and then you

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Speaker 1: were like actually yeah yeah, it's like first of all,

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Speaker 1: like yeah, just you a subversion of our all fair

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Speaker 1: you act like you invented something, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: So like man ed have been. I would have loved

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Speaker 1: to have seen some sort of like alternate time line

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Speaker 1: where Irish were just like black people, like we were

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Speaker 1: just like well, and there's I mean there's a lot

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Speaker 1: that like because one of the things that happens. You know,

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Speaker 1: you've got Aliver Cromwell who invades Ireland, and like if

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Speaker 1: you look at the Irish countryside, one thing you might

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Speaker 1: notice is that like there's weirdly not a lot of

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Speaker 1: like old growth forests or wild animals because they got murdered,

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Speaker 1: like like Cromwell like kills the land to a significant extent.

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Speaker 1: It's like pretty there's a lot of like horrible, terrible,

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Speaker 1: fucked up war crimes that go on in this period

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Speaker 1: um and a lot of it's seen as like I

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Speaker 1: said a little earlier that like there was this attitude

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Speaker 1: of like there's a lot of like pagan wildness in Ireland.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that like Christianity isn't there, right, the

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Speaker 1: Normans of the Catholicture don't bring Christianity to Ireland. It's

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Speaker 1: been there for quite a while. But there's also this

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Speaker 1: attitude that like, um, there's something kind of like feral

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Speaker 1: about the Irish people. You see that a lot in

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Speaker 1: kind of the way in which these people write about

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Speaker 1: Ireland in this time. Um, and there is I think

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Speaker 1: an extent like again, a lot has been written and

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Speaker 1: that's not really not the focus of this episode, and

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Speaker 1: like how the Irish became white? And I'm fairly certain

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Speaker 1: there's actually a book by that title. Um, yeah, But

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Speaker 1: I learned a lot of that in like my like

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Speaker 1: undergrad studies, like that the process of like disenfranchising slaves

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Speaker 1: and like when the it's good stuff and like Shea's

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Speaker 1: Rebellion and all this stuff that like kind of tied

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Speaker 1: to whiteness at least in the America's Yeah, but it

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Speaker 1: is important, like a lot of that does happen in

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Speaker 1: the Americas because when you actually look in Ireland, there

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Speaker 1: is as much as there's histories of other things, there

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Speaker 1: is a significant history of like rejection of aspects of

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Speaker 1: that identity, and you see little signs of that and

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Speaker 1: a bunch of things, including the fact that if you

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Speaker 1: go to like a football game in Ireland day, there's

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Speaker 1: a decent chance you go to see a lot of

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Speaker 1: Palestinian flags. There's a long history of like kind of

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Speaker 1: solidarity and whatnot that comes with being a colonized people. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's not the only thing, because also it's worth noting

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Speaker 1: that as with like the Scots, shipload of the soldiers

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Speaker 1: of the British Empire who were doing this whole making

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Speaker 1: an empire thing are Irish people too. So it's it's

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Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff is happening. Um. So English domination

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Speaker 1: of Ireland was not a clean process that didn't happen

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Speaker 1: all at once. This is going on for a period

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Speaker 1: of kind of centuries. It's being sort of ironed out.

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Speaker 1: As a rule. Irish lords ruled most of the land

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Speaker 1: in Ireland through the twelve hundreds to the early like

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Speaker 1: sixteen hundreds. Um. And you know it's the stuff we've

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Speaker 1: been talking about. There's fighting in between these different lords,

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Speaker 1: there's alliances. Some of them are like backing the English

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Speaker 1: to like funck over their neighbors. Pretty normal feudalism stuff. Um.

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Speaker 1: Celtic Ireland, as it's generally called, was divided between four

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Speaker 1: or five lords at any given time the bulk of

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Speaker 1: the land um, and they distributed like the land that

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Speaker 1: was under their control to lower chiefs into like accepts

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Speaker 1: the in in what we're called land usages and in

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Speaker 1: exchange for this land. Basically again, it's the pretty normal

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Speaker 1: feudalism deal. You've got a hand over a portion of

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Speaker 1: your agricultural produced for the lord, and if there's a war,

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Speaker 1: you've got to like help, you know, give him bodies.

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Speaker 1: Basically standard. Yeah, you've got these guys and they got there,

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Speaker 1: they got their guys. Um. It's it's pretty normal, pretty

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Speaker 1: normal feudalism stuff, which is not all that different from

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Speaker 1: organized crime, but with better outfits. Um yeah, like most government. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: Henry the Eighth becomes king as we discussed, and he

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Speaker 1: kind of staggers dick first into the history of religion. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's crazy, Like there was a way I would love

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Speaker 1: to be there for the Henry the Eighth story that well,

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Speaker 1: maybe we'll get to that at one point. That's a

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Speaker 1: little further back than we usually do. All probably Cromwell.

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Speaker 1: Probably do Cromwell before we do Henry, because I mean

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Speaker 1: Cromwell's after. But you know, yeah, I'm just like, listen,

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Speaker 1: if there's any like sort of if you are, if

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Speaker 1: you are a Christian or Protestant in any way, shape

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Speaker 1: or form like you there's no in I don't care

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Speaker 1: what schout theology is, your hat has to go off

381
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Speaker 1: to him to eight. It's an incredible flex like in

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Speaker 1: that completely, that's amazing. He got to start a denomination

383
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Speaker 1: just because because because he needed the pool Namby, he

384
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 1: invented the what is it the Anglican Hirian? Yeah, because

385
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 1: they wanted to fuck differently this look in respect? Do

386
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Speaker 1: I like, there's the human humans sit out theology down

387
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 1: for a second? Respect due bro, Yeah, it's it's it's pretty,

388
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 1: it's pretty. It's pretty cool. So one of the things

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Speaker 1: that Henry the Eighth does because he's he's he's not

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Speaker 1: happy that the Irish aren't willing to give up their

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Speaker 1: religion because he wanted to fuck um. And there's other

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Speaker 1: stuff like there's a lot of like Irish raids on

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Speaker 1: the English coast. There's kind of fighting with in Ireland.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, he decides Ireland has been a troublesome food

395
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Speaker 1: quite enough time, and and he makes a declaration that

396
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Speaker 1: all Irish lands, whether they're owned by Gaelic, Irish or

397
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Speaker 1: English transplants, have to descender, have to surrender their their

398
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Speaker 1: land to the Crown, and then the Crown's going to

399
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 1: give them back. Right. So what he's doing, he's not

400
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Speaker 1: actually trying to take their land away, but he's trying

401
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Speaker 1: to make it clear that everyone who owns land in

402
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: Ireland owns it through the King of England. Right. Um,

403
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 1: that's pretty that's pretty mobster right there. He wants everybody

404
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:35,719
Speaker 1: to um con bend the knee, you know that. Yeah. Um,

405
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 1: So the Irish, a lot of people in Ireland, i

406
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 1: should say, aren't super happy with this, right Um it's

407
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Speaker 1: and and so they rebel and this kicks off a

408
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Speaker 1: series of wars that go throughout like the early sixteen hundreds.

409
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Speaker 1: There's a number of rebellions. One of them is led

410
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Speaker 1: by a guy named Dodoherty. Uh and in sixteen o

411
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Speaker 1: eight he loses this rebellion and he had owned like

412
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Speaker 1: he was one of these guys who's owned a shipload

413
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Speaker 1: of irelansh Irish land. Um and because he loses this rebellion,

414
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Speaker 1: all of the land he's owned is granted to the

415
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Speaker 1: Lord Deputy, a guy named Author Chichester, which is virtually

416
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 1: Chichester's a name and both as a first and a

417
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 1: last name that you're going to hear a couple of

418
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Speaker 1: times in this story. I had never heard it before,

419
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 1: this terrible name. Terrible name, not like Authority, which is

420
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 1: a good name. I like, it's pretty like it's it's

421
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:26,120
Speaker 1: always fun, always fun saying to say in Irish names. Um,

422
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 1: so England had only kind of I mean, part of

423
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 1: how England wins the victories in these wars. They're finding

424
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,879
Speaker 1: it's not just them coming in as as will be

425
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: the case with like all of their colonial wars. They're

426
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 1: not just sending in an army and crushing the local opposition.

427
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,159
Speaker 1: They are allying with Irish rebels, right, and they're kind

428
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: of playing these different chieftain or not with rebels, but

429
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,239
Speaker 1: they're playing these different chieftains off each other. So some

430
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 1: of these Irish chieftains stay loyal to the crown and

431
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 1: they fight on behalf of the crown against other Irish people, right,

432
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 1: And that's how it's it's going to be the same

433
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,719
Speaker 1: in Africa, right with these peeps like the King's African

434
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,959
Speaker 1: rifles and whatnot. You know, that's where we get our

435
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 1: idiom means and whatnot is these colonial soldiers who are

436
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 1: getting played against other you know, indigenous people's. Um. Yeah,

437
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 1: it's a bummer, it's a real bummer. And this is

438
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: not I had said previously that Ireland's kind of the

439
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: first colony of England. That doesn't mean it's the first

440
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 1: place that the English like conquer. That's not England, right,

441
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: because they take whales and they take Scotland first, right. Um.

442
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,439
Speaker 1: But those again, there's people probably in both places who

443
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 1: will argue. But I think there's a difference with what

444
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 1: happens in those places and what happens in Ireland that

445
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,679
Speaker 1: makes Ireland more of a colony situate. Because people always

446
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 1: are conquering each other, right, they do it everywhere. They

447
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 1: do it in Africa, the New China, they all every

448
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,439
Speaker 1: every group of human beings. There have been some who

449
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: have like conquered others. What what we start to see

450
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 1: happening in this developing colonial period is different. And one

451
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: of the things that's really different is that when when

452
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 1: the English, you know, take have to fight their fights

453
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 1: with Scotland. The same thing happens where there's groups of

454
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 1: nobles in Scotland who sided with the English English Crown

455
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 1: and help crackdown and rebellions, and there's groups that rebel.

456
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: The same thing happens in Wales. But once those wars

457
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 1: are over, the Welsh and scott lords who had sided

458
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 1: with the English crown get a piece of the pie, right,

459
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 1: Like they get integrated to a signific pretty significant extent,

460
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 1: and like the ruling class of this this forming thing

461
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: that's going to become the United Kingdom. Um. And so

462
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 1: a lot of these Irish chieftains who side with the

463
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: crown think like, well, something like this is going to

464
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: happen with us, right, which seems like a good deal.

465
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: You know, it's not going bad for these these folks. Yeah,

466
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,360
Speaker 1: it's like it's it's when assimilation works, yeah, right, It's

467
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 1: like we'll just assimilate you into the culture and everything's

468
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: everything's fine. Yeah, And it seems like this is the

469
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, and and and that's kind of what

470
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 1: a lot of these folks who have sided with the

471
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: crown expect to happen in Ireland. It's not how things

472
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 1: work out, and I want to quote next from the

473
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,479
Speaker 1: book The Invention of the White Race by Theodore Allen.

474
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: The option for racial oppression left no room in the

475
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 1: ranks of the colonial upper crap upper class for Catholic

476
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 1: Irish chieftains, for all that some of them might wear

477
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 1: the titles sir. The English therefore proceeded systematically with the

478
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: repudiation of their promises to their Irish wartime allies, whether

479
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: they had been enemies or allies in the Tyrone War,

480
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: whether they flew to arms or merely protested at court.

481
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 1: The Irish of chieftain class were to be demoted socially

482
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: to the status of no more than small landlords, politically

483
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: excluded from posts of authority, and placed socially beyond the

484
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 1: pale of British respectability, tannistry and gavel kind. The Celtic

485
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,959
Speaker 1: forms of succession and inheritance were outlawed. Irish chieftains might

486
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: be expropriated and put to death for making an appeal

487
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: based on Celtic law, and the practice of the Catholic

488
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: religion was outlawed. Britain's were forbidden to acquire land from Britain's,

489
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: that is, English or Scots they were to get it

490
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: from the Irish. In the sixest sheeted Ulster counties, only

491
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 1: a score of the deserving Irish were allowed to keep

492
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: as much as one thousand acres of land. They just yeah,

493
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 1: it's so bad, and it's like, I know, I'm looking

494
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: back at history, you know, I'm kind of like Monday

495
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: more quarterback in here, but like it just seems so arbitrary.

496
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 1: Of this is wrapped up in the Catholicism Anglicans split.

497
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 1: It's got to be that, right, because I'm un it.

498
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: I mean, like because again, like to this day, like

499
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: you know, with the ways people feel about Italians where

500
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: I'm like, why not domn I'm like, is it what

501
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: they don't count? I'm like, is it? Is it that? Anyway? Yeah,

502
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 1: it has to be the religion thing and then being

503
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 1: able to fold that into your your construction of yeah,

504
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: because it starts, it doesn't And it's just that like

505
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: these initial divisions, uh, and the kind of conflicts they

506
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: spawn just keep deepening over time, because it doesn't until

507
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: the Irish are even more than just sort of a subject,

508
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: a subject people um seen as like a conquered people

509
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: who have to be kind of brutally kept in their place.

510
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 1: Like this is a kind of an evolving understanding. None

511
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 1: of this happens overnight. Um, And I'm like, but yeah,

512
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: by and large, I'm like, relatively speaking, the space between

513
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 1: the British and the Irish is like l A and

514
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: the Valley. Like, yeah, there's there's suburbs in the United

515
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 1: States that are closer to their cities of origin than

516
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: like or further than like Dublin is from from London. Yeah,

517
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 1: it's not even it's not even like to San Francisco.

518
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: It's not even lay San Francisco. I'm like, yo, like

519
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: day day round the corner, Like, yeah, there's I think,

520
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: like Kanye's farm in Wyoming is a significant chunk of

521
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,239
Speaker 1: the landmass we're talking about here. Yeah, I'm just like

522
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: it's only um, yeah, they're not far away, but like

523
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: in terms of like the cultural differences, it is pretty vast,

524
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: and it's growing this period in part because English elites

525
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: really come to despise the Irish as a race. Lord

526
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: Chichester um who wound up I'm probably pronouncing that wrong.

527
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: I'm sure something like Jerry or some ship. Because it's

528
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: English names, it's always like what no of course you

529
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: pronounced Chichester. Chichester. It's pronounced you know. Yeah, okay, I'm

530
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: reading one. For reading the letters on the page, for

531
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: trusting the way you wrote this, that's I mean. I'm sorry, Yeah,

532
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I didn't. I didn't realize it was pronounced

533
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: lester because it's not at all spelled like lester. There's

534
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: there's not an L anywhere in here, and that's why

535
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: I thought there wasn't pronounced lester. It's one of those things,

536
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: like whales. You look at the way things are spelled

537
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: in Welsh and it makes like I would never even

538
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: try to pronounce those, but at least they don't. They

539
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: aren't pretending to be something friending. You look at a

540
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: Welsh where and you're like, okay, well, I don't know

541
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: how to say that. You look at the word for

542
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: lester and it's like, oh, well that looks like a

543
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: thing that I should be able to just read. But no, exactly, Nope. Anyway, whatever,

544
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: we don't trust you. We'll talk about this racist asshole

545
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: in a second. We're back. So, Lord Chichester, who winds

546
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: up in possession of that rebel Adoherty's land? He writes

547
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: shortly thereafter quote I have often said and written, it

548
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: is famine which must consume the Irish. Our swords and

549
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: other endeavors work not for that speedy effect which is

550
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: effect expected for the overthrow. So even in it, in

551
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: this period of time, the sixteen hundreds, you have English

552
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: lords being like there's too many Irish, they're too quarrelsome

553
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: we got an engineer of famine, right, like, just to video, y'alls,

554
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: there's too many of Starvation is going to be the

555
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: best way to deal with these people. British thanos and

556
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: a lot of English nobility are going to spend quite

557
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: a bit of time engineering. Really, what's a series of disasters?

558
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: Because before the Great Hunger there are a couple of

559
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: other pretty terrible famines, one of which kills hundreds of

560
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: thousands of people. We just don't talk about it much

561
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: anymore because the Great Hunger is even worse. Um, But

562
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: you know, I want to talk about like how they

563
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: did this because it's all wrapped up in kind of

564
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: this landlording system that arises over the course of a

565
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: couple of centuries in Ireland. Um. Now, we we chat

566
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: on this show pretty regularly about serfdom, which is a

567
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: social situation that existed in a lot of Europe throughout

568
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: the medieval period and existed in Russia until the eighteen sixties. Right,

569
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: Russia doesn't free their serfs until right around when UM

570
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: the Amounts of Patient Proclamation is signed there within a

571
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: couple of years of each other. UM and serfdom is

572
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: a type of slavery. It's not nearly as bad as

573
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 1: like chattel slavery in North America, UM in part because

574
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: obviously one of the worst things about chattel slaveries families

575
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: get split up. Right, you can like sell individuals from

576
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: families and separate them from their loved ones. Surfs are

577
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: bound to the land, so they are part of the

578
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: property parcel that you own, So you can't like split

579
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: up families outside of like drafting people to go fight

580
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: in wars, which which absolutely does happen and is pretty unpleasant. UM.

581
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: But it does mean like the downside of being a

582
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: surf is that you're not really free, you can't leave,

583
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: you can't really do anything but be a serf. The

584
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 1: upside is that number one, you're not you're not really

585
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: paying rent. You know, like you can't get kicked off

586
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: the land because yeah, yeah, I've always I've always explained

587
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: it like, okay, you know when you when you like

588
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: if you're renting an apartment and the apartment has a

589
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: stove watching machine, like it's already there, Like it just

590
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: it kind of comes with the apartment, you know what

591
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: I mean. It's like it's a surf. Yeah, they're kind

592
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: of like you just come with the land when I

593
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: buy it, you know. Yeah, it's I'm sure this will

594
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: happen in like another three years. But imagine if your

595
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: landlord owned you, and that meant that you had to

596
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: do what your landlord said and work in whatever job

597
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: they wanted you to work. But you also couldn't get evicted. Um,

598
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: so it would be a kick you out, but you

599
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: also can't move. Yeah, exactly, So it sucks. But also

600
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: it's really where I'm bringing all this up to say

601
00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: that like as bad as Serfdom was, it is vastly

602
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: superior to what Irish peasants are enduring from the sixteen

603
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: hundreds and seventeen hundreds. I think it's important to like,

604
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: for you know, future reference for any any listener, especially

605
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: like the type of listeners that you and I have

606
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: to when you talk about slavery to understand sort of

607
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: the gradient of types of slavery, and I think yeah,

608
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: like on one end of the spectrum is sort of

609
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: like yeah, like a like a conquered village, you know

610
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: what I mean, Um, and you're taking the warriors to

611
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: do something or some sort of like serfdom if you will,

612
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: all the way to this, Yeah, well the humans are

613
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,239
Speaker 1: prob where humans are are cattle like, so that's like

614
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: chattel slavery, you know what I'm saying, Like there's a

615
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: a scale, you know what I mean, If you will,

616
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: it's really important because a lot of the especially folks

617
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: who want to minimize chattel slavery that exists in the

618
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: United States, they'll be like, well, slavery exists everywhere and

619
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: it's always bad, which is like saying war exists everywhere

620
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: and it's always bad. It's like, yeah, but different kinds

621
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: of wars others like yes, like desert storm war is bad,

622
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: but desert storm was not as bad as for example,

623
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: the German innovation of Russia. It was worse than the other.

624
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, like Roman, and there's often gradients,

625
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: Like we talk about ancient Roman slavery. There were slaves

626
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,959
Speaker 1: in ancient Rome who would have who would have felt

627
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: very similarly about their situation to chattel slaves in North America.

628
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: These would have been slaves working on the lat of Fundia,

629
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: which were these massive agricultural plantations or in the minds,

630
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: and these are terrible lives for these slaves and they're

631
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 1: worked to death and it's it's really a miserable situation.

632
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: But a lot of slaves in ancient Rome would have

633
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 1: been more or less we're working internships, like and they're

634
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 1: not even unpaid, like they're getting paid a lot. Like

635
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 1: you when when you get freed and you had you

636
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: would get free generally before too much time as like

637
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: a household slave or like, yeah, like people would people,

638
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: particularly educated Greeks, would sell themselves into slavery to become

639
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 1: teachers for rich people because it was like a better life.

640
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 1: So it's not like if you're like, you can't just say,

641
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: like slavery in Rome was this because there are a

642
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: bunch of different types of slate and anyway, totally we're

643
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: getting off the subject. Yeah yeah, yeah, but yeah, yeah,

644
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 1: but I think that's a very important distinction, especially like

645
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: when you're trying, like you said, having a cultural dialogue

646
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: with somebody about, like I said, minimizing the experience of

647
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: one person sort of playing like this oppression Olympics to

648
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 1: where you like it. It really is different though. Yeah,

649
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: it's worth understanding that because the Irish in this period

650
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: they're not slaves in any way. Um, but also in

651
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: there's a degree to which there's certainly worse off in

652
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 1: most ways than surfs. Um. It's because of this landlording

653
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: system that evolves. So throughout the sixteen hundreds, like this period,

654
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: there there's this process of the Celtic feudal system being

655
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 1: dismantled piece by piece and ownership of the land being

656
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: transferred to English landlords, most of whom were what you'd

657
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: call absentee landlords. Right, they don't live in Ireland. Thankfully

658
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: that doesn't exist anymore. Nobody here pays rent. Nobody listening

659
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: to the show pays rent to somebody who lives far away,

660
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,280
Speaker 1: and it's just kind of collecting a check. That doesn't

661
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: happen anymore, but it did in this period. It never happened.

662
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: So first of first I couldn't follow you. I was like, wait,

663
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: that he's making a joke. I'm yeah, I'm just being

664
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: a lass. So throughout the sixteen hundreds, England confiscates more

665
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,720
Speaker 1: than three million acres of land um. And yeah, this

666
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 1: this during this period of time, Irish peasants changed from

667
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: being more or less in a similar position to peasants

668
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: in a lot of Europe to being renters um and

669
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: this winds up being a lot worse under what can

670
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: to be called the Middleman system. And there's a couple

671
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: of different ways that this kind of works. It's not

672
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 1: the same across all of Ireland. But one of the

673
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: ways in which this works is called the Middleman system.

674
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 1: And in this English people acquire land which they then

675
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,959
Speaker 1: let to a fixed rate to a single english person

676
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: who lives in Ireland. So the land is like owned

677
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 1: by an english person who lives outside the island, and

678
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 1: then they basically lease it to an English person who

679
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: lives in Ireland and works as like a property manager,

680
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: and he sub lets the property to peasants. These are

681
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: This is a very modern system in a lot a

682
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: lot of this is gonna sound very familiar, not to like,

683
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,760
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to compare this to like rental situation

684
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 1: people living in San Francisco. It's obviously, like not not

685
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: to minimize the horror what's happening in Ireland, but like

686
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: legally on paper, there's there's some real similarities between and

687
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 1: in part because like what is figured out in this

688
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: period of time spreads in a lot of ways, like

689
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: a lot of the different attitudes towards how leasing and

690
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: renting and stuff should totally kind of being invented in

691
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: this period um. So the middleman system allows landlords to

692
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: profit handily off of Irish land and labor without actually

693
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: seeing the people they're exploiting. You know, that's up to

694
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 1: the middleman to do the direct exploiting, so you can

695
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: just kind of take the cash. Another system that is

696
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 1: popular in chunks of Ireland is called land tenure um

697
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: and in this system, absentee landlords rent small tracts of

698
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: land directly to peasants without a middleman um and over

699
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 1: the course of two hundred years or so, there's kind

700
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: of some different ways that this works, but the ultimate

701
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: result is that most Irish peasants, like three million people

702
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: by the time the Great Hunger starts, wind up living

703
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 1: on these very very small plots of land. We'll talk

704
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: about this more later, but they keep getting divided up

705
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 1: more and more over time. Um in his nineteen sixty

706
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,919
Speaker 1: two text The Great Hunger historian Cecil Wouldham Smith, which

707
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: is a very English name for a guy who's who's

708
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: writing a very critical book about the Great Hunger proper

709
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: Cecil Smith. Um, I just can't get over some of

710
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: these names anyway. The land Uh, I'm gonna I'm gonna

711
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: quote from Cecil, who I think is actually a pretty

712
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,919
Speaker 1: good historian. The land system, thus introduced, was a method

713
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 1: of government, a badge of conquest, and a means of

714
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: holding in subjection of the common people. Ireland was a

715
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 1: conquered country, the Irish peasant a dispossessed man and his

716
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: landlord and alien conqueror. So while it is tempting and

717
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: to some extent worthwhile to again note some similarities with

718
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 1: our modern landlording system, it's also important to see how

719
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: unique this system was. The English crown is essentially using

720
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: a really decentralized network of landholding arrangements to dispossess the

721
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: Irish peasant, and this ensures if you don't own your farm,

722
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 1: you can't ever make anything extra right. Like you know what,

723
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 1: We'll talk again this a bit more. But like it.

724
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: It ensures the fact that nobody owns anything and the

725
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: fact that people don't have any permanent ties to the

726
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: land that they're born and raised on, um means makes

727
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: it very hard for peasants to put together the resources

728
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: or have the stability that could lead to organized resistance.

729
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: It doesn't make it impossible, there is organized resistance at periods,

730
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: but it makes it a lot harder. Um. It also

731
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: makes it it's very another thing that's very familiar, yes, exactly.

732
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: And obviously when this, when aspects of this system get

733
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 1: taken over to other parts of the world, they get

734
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: a lot worse, right, Like, it's definitely worse for other

735
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 1: people outside of Ireland when some of these things are

736
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 1: like morphed but you can see shades of the tactics

737
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: that the British Empire would use everywhere here um, and

738
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 1: shades of like what the United States is going to

739
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: do to indigenous people, you know, right, Like there's elements

740
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: of that in here um because it's you know, it's

741
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 1: a lot of things being tested. Yeah. Um. So English

742
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: land laws are imported to Ireland, and these laws quote

743
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: pushed to their extreme the rights of landlords and conceded

744
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: nothing to the occupiers in respect of their customary rights.

745
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: Under the old Irish customs, Irish renters did not get

746
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: to lease the land they lived on. There are no

747
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 1: leases in this period, so everyone is at will, which

748
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,479
Speaker 1: means you can be evicted at any moment for any

749
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 1: reason or no reason at all. Um, there's no warning

750
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: that has to be given. It doesn't like you can

751
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:37,879
Speaker 1: be paying your rent and they can still kick you off.

752
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. Um. Tenants also received no kind of

753
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: compensation for improving the land that they farmed. So a

754
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 1: big part of farming, if you've ever farmed, is to

755
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: like do things over time that make your land more

756
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 1: productive and like increase your yield and make what you're

757
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: on more valuable and also more capable of more easily

758
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: providing a more food, both for money and for taking

759
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 1: care of your yourself of the people who live there.

760
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: You there's no point in doing that if you're an

761
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 1: Irish Irish tenant farmer. Um. We'll get into that a

762
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: little bit more too, But like because you you own nothing, um,

763
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: It's it's good for people to have a sense of

764
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: ownership and the things that they live in. Like, it's

765
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: it's broadly positive so yeah, I was just like why

766
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 1: why I'm now now I'm curious as to like, why

767
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: do they why would you think that this like would

768
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 1: be successful? Well like that, Yeah, but I'm like just

769
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: in the initial thinking of like I would want if

770
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: I own the land I wouldn't want, and I and

771
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 1: own a land in a place that I don't even

772
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: live and I probably ain't seen in years, I would

773
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 1: want to make sure that that land is getting better.

774
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: So I'm like, so I'm like, make my land better

775
00:41:56,719 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 1: just because I'm telling you to, or just like I

776
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: just thought. Maybe I'm just again modern eyes where I

777
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: was like, man, I would want to incentivize, like yo,

778
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: keep avocado. You know what I'm saying, Like, hey, if

779
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 1: you could pick my soil, I want to take one

780
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: of my avocados for yourself, Like I would think to me,

781
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:17,839
Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm saying. There there are that

782
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: there are some landlords, because again we're we're talking abroad here,

783
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 1: there are certainly landlords who like offer better deals to

784
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 1: people and who do try to encourage, you know, like

785
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: I'm never going to kick you guys off, like you

786
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 1: can improve your land that that happens to But but

787
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 1: broadly speaking, it does not happen on a wide scale,

788
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about why. But this is

789
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: very much a conscious decision that people are making, and

790
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 1: there's it's a mix of ideology. We're going to talk

791
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 1: about some aspects of like free market capitalism are being invented.

792
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 1: So a big part of the fear here is that

793
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 1: if you create a situation by which people would want

794
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,919
Speaker 1: to improve their land, that's by definition a situation which

795
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 1: they have more control over the land they live on,

796
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: which means you are violating the sacred property rights of

797
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: the lord. Right. That's a big chunk of of why

798
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 1: they don't want that to exist. Because yeah, yeah, we're

799
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 1: we're gonna get Adam Smith is going to come into

800
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 1: this story in a big way not not too long

801
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,439
Speaker 1: from now. So, but obviously we're not there yet. Six

802
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: nine Adam Smith is just a glimmer in I don't

803
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: know some other Smith's I at this point. So, uh,

804
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 1: William of Orange in sixteen nine beats the Catholic king

805
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: James the Second at the Battle of the boyne Um,

806
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: and this spells the end of organized Catholic power in

807
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,840
Speaker 1: Ireland and is seen by Protestants in Northern Ireland as

808
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: kind of like an Independence day sort of situation. Battle

809
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: of the Boyne is a big thing for the Protestants

810
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: in Northern Ireland. Um. And again it's often seen as like, yeah,

811
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 1: you have this like fight between the Catholics and the Protestants,

812
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: and the Catholics lose and and it it leads to

813
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 1: a lot of tragedy. It's again, as is always the

814
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: case with Irish history, much messier than that, because the

815
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: reality is that the Pope in Rome actually backs William

816
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: of Orange against the Catholic King James as part of

817
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: a strategic scheme to funk with King Louis of France. Um.

818
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: And he secretly funnels the modern equivalent of three and

819
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: a half million pounds sterling to William. Money that's spent

820
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: on swords and muskets to kill Catholic isn't it. Yeah,

821
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 1: And we don't find it. We we didn't learn this

822
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 1: until documents were uncovered in two thousand eight. Like for

823
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 1: in terms of like to give you an idea of

824
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: like how good the fucking Catholic churches and both documenting

825
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 1: ship and keeping it lockdown. This happens in sixteen ninety

826
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: and it doesn't drop until two thousand eight. Dog, the

827
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: US government's bad at FOIA requests. Do you understand what

828
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: I'm saying? I just heard today. I just heard day

829
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 1: Trump out there hiding seven hours like phone content, Like, okay,

830
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,400
Speaker 1: see if you can keep that hidden for full honey years.

831
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 1: Popes like that's that, that's j V ship. Yeah, Popes

832
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 1: like Rookie Cookies, rich shirt. There wasn't even be United

833
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: States when we started covering up war. Cry you need

834
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: you need country. Yeah, we we've got. We're hiding ship

835
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 1: older than your concept of of of society. Yeah we got.

836
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: We got dudes, old, sacred and your constitution gotta love it.

837
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 1: Throughout the early seventeen hundreds, the Irish peasantry languished better

838
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: off than slaves, but worse off in a lot of

839
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,439
Speaker 1: ways than surfs. The fact that landlords could increase rent

840
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 1: whenever they wanted meant it was pointless again to try

841
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: and farm for cash crops worth much more like there's

842
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: not a lot. There's not a point in massively increasing

843
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,800
Speaker 1: your yields or improving the land because they can change

844
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,720
Speaker 1: your rented will. So if they see, oh they doubled

845
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: their productivity this year, I'm gonna double rent, So why

846
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 1: would you do that? Why would you put in that?

847
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: Why would you exactly? So you you pay in in produce. Yeah,

848
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: generally basically right like you're because you're you're farming. You

849
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: are a farmer, so you're farming both to feed yourself

850
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: and you are farming to pay your rent. I mean,

851
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: if you've got this middleman, you can't just be like

852
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: hide and corn somewhere. But it's harder because he's and

853
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 1: there's there's obviously there's always local collaborators whose jobs like

854
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: you know, um, and there's also the people always do

855
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 1: get away with ship right the same you know, we're

856
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: flattening things a little bit because there's a lot of

857
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: history to cover here, of course, and you have what's

858
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 1: what's a what's ahead of lettuce between friends? Yeah, but

859
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: there's there's also so not only there's no point in

860
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 1: like massively increasing your yields as a farmer, because they'll

861
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 1: just up your taxes, but there's also not much of

862
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,839
Speaker 1: a point in improving the land because if you make

863
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 1: the land a lot better, then your landlord will kick

864
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:37,759
Speaker 1: you out and we'll sprint it to someone else for

865
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: more money. Yep. You know, like why why why would you? Um? Now,

866
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 1: historians have noted that one major issue with achieving progress

867
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 1: under the feudal system, this is everywhere that there is

868
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: a feudal system, is that like this is broadly a

869
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 1: thing that happens in feudalism. Feudal lords in a lot

870
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 1: of Europe throughout the medieval period have fairly little incentive

871
00:46:57,640 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 1: to invest in or improve their lands. If you may

872
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 1: like a region a lot more agriculturally productive or whatever, UM,

873
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,320
Speaker 1: then number one, it looks more enticing for your rifles

874
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,720
Speaker 1: to attack and try to take. But also the money

875
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:12,479
Speaker 1: that you invest in improving that land is less money

876
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 1: that you're spending on your military. You know, if you're

877
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: smart and careful, over time it can work out for you.

878
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: But it's like a risk. You're taking a gamble if

879
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 1: you if you divert resources for that UM. And this

880
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: is one of the reasons why feudalism doesn't you know,

881
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 1: people find other things to do, because it's it's not

882
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 1: great for all kinds of progress, right, like I think

883
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 1: I do like And one of the things that's interesting

884
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: is England has even though there's a king, still they've

885
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,799
Speaker 1: moved beyond this system in this period. That's part of

886
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:41,839
Speaker 1: why they conquer the world, right, as they developed kind

887
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 1: of new systems that are more conclusive to the kind

888
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 1: of progress that is beneficial. Um. But with this system

889
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: of absentee landlords that they put in place over Ireland,

890
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: they find a way to deny the Irish any benefits

891
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 1: of modernization. UM. When enterprising irishmen try to make a

892
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,720
Speaker 1: life for themselves in other ways besides farming, the Crown

893
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 1: cracks down on their ambitions. In the Famine plot, Tim

894
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 1: pat Coogan rights, Irish trade was crippled by the partial conquest.

895
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: Instead of being developed, valuable cattle, fishing and woolen industries

896
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 1: were taxed out of existence when they came into competition

897
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 1: with either British trading interests or her military concerns, which

898
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: led her to disrupt Irish trade with both France and America.

899
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 1: So like, not only is it a ship situation for farmers,

900
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 1: but whenever people try to do anything else, try to

901
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:30,239
Speaker 1: go into business or whatever, that gets destroyed via like

902
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 1: taxing or via like different there's different ways the government

903
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 1: has a fucking this over in order to protect English businesses.

904
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: You know, you know when there's no way out for

905
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 1: the Irish. Really. There's even this brief period in the

906
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,479
Speaker 1: early eighteen hundreds where they're starting to industrialize more and

907
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 1: the the the number of Irish people who are kind

908
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: of like working in these factory jobs, industrial jobs, the

909
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 1: don off industrial revolution is increasing and then it plummets

910
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 1: right before the Great Hunger. And part of that is

911
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 1: that like, well, we don't want Irish industry to compete

912
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,280
Speaker 1: with British, like we want to sell them that stuff

913
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: for one thing, Like that's not why they're they're they're

914
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 1: not there to develop their island into you know, a

915
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 1: lot of Yeah, and we're talking are like are we

916
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 1: we're still talking like Ireland as a whole? Are we

917
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 1: talking Northern Ireland? Were Yeah, We're it's just Ireland at

918
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 1: this polet. I mean, it's it's it's it's all under

919
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 1: the control of the crown, right. So there are like

920
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:24,279
Speaker 1: what you've got up in the north, like places like

921
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 1: Ulster in particular. Ulster is basically founded as a colony

922
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: of English people in Ireland. Um, so yeah, you do.

923
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: And again this is kind of like Ulster is founded

924
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 1: right along the same time. It's like so that like

925
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 1: the English, you're founding colonies in the east coast of

926
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 1: North America, so they're actually kind of colonizing Ireland in

927
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,760
Speaker 1: similar ways to how they're colonizing the America's at around

928
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 1: the same period of time. UM. So obviously all this

929
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: the fact that England is kind of hamstringing Irish growth

930
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: has impacts beyond just keeping the Irish downtrodden. Um. English

931
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 1: landlords could have been proved this situation while remaining into

932
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 1: control in control if they'd agreed to enter into contracts

933
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 1: with their tenants like leases, that would maybe limit their

934
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 1: ability to increase rent or evict people. But they weren't

935
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 1: willing to do this, and that's part of why there

936
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,240
Speaker 1: can be no progress. In a paper for the Marquette

937
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 1: Law Review, Cynthia Smith writes, because the landlord's goal was

938
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:20,800
Speaker 1: to extract as much money from the land as possible,

939
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 1: any contractual agreement with tenants would have been an obstacle

940
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: to this rent seeking. In addition to rent seeking, there

941
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 1: were a number of reasons why English landlords neglected to

942
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 1: invest in their holdings in Ireland. The small size of holdings,

943
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 1: the uncertain political situation, general economic conditions, and the availability

944
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 1: of more lucrative investment alternatives. All of these factors may

945
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: have contributed to the landlord's reluctance to improve. Landlords were

946
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 1: further deterred from investing because they were already making a

947
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 1: substantial profit on the rent collected on the unimproved land. Finally,

948
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 1: landlords neglected to make improvements because they feared that tenants

949
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 1: would use the investments so intensively that the value of

950
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 1: the improvement would depreciate it too high a rate. Misuse

951
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,239
Speaker 1: of an improvement was likely to occur when tenants had

952
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:01,959
Speaker 1: no security of tenure. However, if tenants had been given

953
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:04,359
Speaker 1: some security, misuse would not have been a problem because

954
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 1: tenants would have been in the process of maximizing their

955
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: net income and used the improvement optimally. So there's like

956
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 1: a number of different ways this could work, and this

957
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 1: is how things work in a lot of other parts

958
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:19,560
Speaker 1: of Europe that are modernizing. Um. But the absolutely, yeah,

959
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 1: it's slum lording ship on the scale of an entire people, right, yeah,

960
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 1: Like they England has turned Ireland into a slum um

961
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 1: so that they can lord over it. Now. The backwardness

962
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:35,800
Speaker 1: of pre famine agriculture in Ireland caused by the inefficient investment.

963
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: Of This becomes apparent when Ireland's labor productivity in eighteen

964
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,879
Speaker 1: forty five is compared to English labor productivity. Um, Like,

965
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 1: British people are like twice as productive as Irish people

966
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: in eighteen forty five, Like if you're kind of like

967
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:53,759
Speaker 1: looking at them as economic units. Um. And this is

968
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 1: because there's just been no development that's been allowed to occur, um,

969
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 1: not none, but very little. But even that scale or

970
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: comparison is like it's so infuriating. It's like, well, look

971
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 1: we're more productive than y'all, Like, well I wonder why, yeah, yeah, Well,

972
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:13,840
Speaker 1: and this is going to justify it's going to be

973
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 1: used to justify a lot of racism against the Irish

974
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:18,359
Speaker 1: because like, well, look they're not very productive, like they

975
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 1: just can't keep up with the modern society or whatever. Um. So,

976
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:26,359
Speaker 1: landlords find that the easiest way to increase profits from

977
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:29,799
Speaker 1: generation to generation is to further subdivide their lots, which

978
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 1: allows them to rent to even greater numbers of the

979
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:36,239
Speaker 1: growing Irish population. And these peasants again, these people who

980
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:39,879
Speaker 1: live in these renting situations, they make their living by

981
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 1: growing different grains and other kind of like export crops,

982
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:45,839
Speaker 1: and then those crops are exported and that's what pays

983
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: their rent. Since rent race is constantly but their amount

984
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,240
Speaker 1: of land is fixed and in fact often shrinking. Irish

985
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,280
Speaker 1: peasants are caught in this unwinnable cycle of increasing poverty,

986
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 1: and the desperation of their situation leads them to embrace

987
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 1: a recent import from the New World potatoes. Now we

988
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 1: talk a lot, I mean there's a lot of like

989
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 1: talk in popular culture about Ireland and the potato. Obviously,

990
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: the potato comes from again the New World. It's not

991
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 1: like a native to Ireland. The reason why they adopt

992
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 1: it so quickly is that the potato is one of

993
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,399
Speaker 1: the very few single foods on Earth that can be

994
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 1: you can live off of nothing but potatoes if that's

995
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:25,840
Speaker 1: all that you have, you can you can especially different

996
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 1: kinds of potatoes. There's all sorts of different strains. Some

997
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: of them have different kinds of nutritional values. But um

998
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: potatoes have like vitamin C and stuff like they have

999
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: what you need to not iohold you. I think I

1000
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: got through a year in college on French fries. Yeah. Yeah, no,

1001
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,399
Speaker 1: I acnology. I I could live off a potato. Yeah,

1002
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: And they also grow, and you can grow it in

1003
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 1: really bad soil. So the way in which these plots

1004
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 1: are subdivided each like family, you know whatever, farming in it,

1005
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 1: however you want to phrase it has like a small

1006
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 1: chunk in the land that they live on has a

1007
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 1: small chunk of like good land, and then usually like

1008
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 1: bogs and stuff and like hillsides that's less good for growing.

1009
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 1: And so one of the things you can do with

1010
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 1: potatoes is in the good land you have, you can

1011
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 1: grow ship like corn that you're going to export and sell,

1012
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 1: and in your ship land you can just sew potatoes

1013
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:18,479
Speaker 1: and those will keep you alive. Right. Potatoes also aren't

1014
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 1: worth anything as an export crop. They're just not worth

1015
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 1: selling really, um. So it also it's what you eat

1016
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 1: because you can't profit off of it. It's just win

1017
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 1: win man like it does. Yeah, yeah, especially because I'm

1018
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 1: like I will Okay, this is a bit of a tangent,

1019
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: but I will defend to my grave in and out fries.

1020
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: I know everybody talks they're not bad, they're bad. I

1021
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: like them. I think it's because, yeah, you know why,

1022
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 1: because they taste like potatoes. I feel like everybody arguing

1023
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: over fries like, I'm like you eating wax and salt

1024
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:54,240
Speaker 1: and you think, of course that's gonna taste great because

1025
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 1: it's yeah and potatoes. Now look, I look, who's your

1026
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 1: top five fry? Don't lose your place top five fries.

1027
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 1: I have strong opinions about this. I mean, I really like,

1028
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 1: I'm a waffle fry guy, and I haven't eaten there

1029
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 1: in a long time, but I do. I did love

1030
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 1: Chick fil A back in the day when I was

1031
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 1: a younger man. I haven't had their fries in like

1032
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 1: ten years, so I don't know. Maybe they're not as

1033
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 1: as good as No, they're still they still slap. I'm

1034
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 1: less that's a good choice fries. I was like, No,

1035
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 1: I was about to say, I was just about to say,

1036
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:31,840
Speaker 1: wing stop. We had him yesterday. One thing incredible because

1037
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:35,840
Speaker 1: they taste like potatoes and are actually seasoned. They taste

1038
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: like season potatoes. Here's here's a little tip that I do.

1039
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'll get those five guys fries and then this

1040
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,359
Speaker 1: is key. You know that that like spicy chili oil

1041
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 1: you can get from Creator Joe's. Yes, I put a

1042
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:49,359
Speaker 1: bunch of them in like a baking pan. I get

1043
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 1: like a tablespoon of chili oil. Dollop it over there,

1044
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 1: smear it all around the potatoes, pop them in the

1045
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:56,800
Speaker 1: oven at three fifty for like ten minutes to crisp

1046
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 1: them up with the fucking it's slaps. It's good. You

1047
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 1: just changed my life because I'm like, I am definitely

1048
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 1: the like, don't leave your fries around me, you know

1049
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Don't like don't walk away from your plate.

1050
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:12,839
Speaker 1: Don't look away. I'm taking your fries. We all love potatoes. Now.

1051
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 1: The problem is and and and also it's worth noting

1052
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 1: it may not sound like eating nothing but potatoes is

1053
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 1: a very healthy diet Irish people. One of the things

1054
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 1: that is noted in this period is that they tend

1055
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:26,239
Speaker 1: to be larger and seemingly healthier than English people of

1056
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 1: a similar socio economic class. And it's because they're they

1057
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 1: they they're they're eating a lot of potatoes, which, compared

1058
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 1: to like a lot of the diets available to people

1059
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 1: at the time without money, is one of the better

1060
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:44,759
Speaker 1: options for being relatively healthy. Also, the English cuisine just man, yeah,

1061
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: we don't. We don't need to talk about British food,

1062
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 1: like I was like, man, I do like Irish breakfast though,

1063
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 1: I'll give I think the Irish are one of the

1064
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 1: better breakfast making peoples of the world. You know who

1065
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 1: else makes good breakfast? Well? I was going to do Yeah,

1066
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 1: I was like, well about that island where you hunt? Okay,

1067
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:11,359
Speaker 1: Sophie is angry at me now, so here's ads. All right.

1068
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 1: So we've been talking about how wonderful potatoes are, and

1069
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:17,360
Speaker 1: they are and how like it's actually not again comparing

1070
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 1: I'm not talking trying to say an objective modern terms,

1071
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 1: but based on the kind of diets available back then,

1072
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 1: living off potatoes in this period is not a bad

1073
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 1: way to make a go of it. Um. But one

1074
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: of the issues is that over time on Ireland everyone

1075
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 1: gravitates to growing just one single strain of potato because

1076
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 1: it's the best one for the It produces the best yields,

1077
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 1: and it's the most nutritious. It's called the lumper. It's

1078
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 1: not particularly tasty, but it is your works the biggest

1079
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 1: bang for your buck and towards of like calories you

1080
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 1: can grow per square whatever. Um. So this works for

1081
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 1: a while, right, Like, while the lumper is growing, well,

1082
00:57:57,440 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 1: this is great because people get a lot of food

1083
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: and people like not starving to death. The problem is

1084
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 1: that if you're if everyone is growing one kind of potato,

1085
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 1: then you have what's called a mono culture. I was

1086
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 1: just about to say, it's not like monocultures ain't good.

1087
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 1: I just left the coffee farm uh in Colombia and

1088
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:17,920
Speaker 1: they were talking a lot about biocultures and monocultures and

1089
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 1: like like just just to add to your existential dread. Uh.

1090
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 1: According to these like expert coffee farmers, they're like, look,

1091
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 1: we got about maybe thirty more harvests in US unless

1092
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 1: we start doing more like bioculture, you know, multi culture.

1093
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 1: This is a problem with every kind of agriculture, right

1094
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 1: whenever you do it's that there's like monocultures. If I'm

1095
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 1: not mistaken, people will point out that like one reason

1096
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 1: why banana flavored candy tastes so unlike bananas is that

1097
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 1: it was based on the flavor of a banana that

1098
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 1: basically doesn't exist anymore because they all got wiped out

1099
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: and now we eat a different kind of banana. Um.

1100
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 1: You look into the history of farming bananas, it's wild.

1101
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: But the good thing about when a plague wipes out

1102
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 1: all of the bananas is that like for a while

1103
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 1: people don't get bananas, Like it's an economic problem for people.

1104
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 1: But I don't think many people have commercially farmed bananas

1105
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:12,120
Speaker 1: as the vast majority, if not the entirety, of their

1106
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 1: nutritional existence, right. Um. Not to minimize the problem that

1107
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 1: a banana blight causes. UM, but you can see how

1108
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: this works great for a while, but when you get

1109
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,440
Speaker 1: a disease that's going to funk over the potato, it's

1110
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 1: going to be a problem for Irish people. But also, again,

1111
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 1: to go back to what you're saying at the start,

1112
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:34,960
Speaker 1: it's not a problem that like there's no food in

1113
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: Ireland because Irish people are only growing potatoes on a

1114
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 1: fairly small chunk of the land they have. Most of

1115
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 1: the land they have is going to grow food that

1116
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 1: they're going to export in order to make their rent right.

1117
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 1: It's important to keep that in mind. So near the

1118
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 1: turn of the eighteenth century, resentment and anger over the

1119
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:55,360
Speaker 1: suffering under English domination leads to another rebellion in Ireland.

1120
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 1: This one is aided by the French who are in

1121
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 1: like you know they France and that have been fighting

1122
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 1: for like a century almost by the point of which

1123
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 1: this happens, yeah, yeahs And France actually tries to land

1124
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: troops in Ireland twice. They land an army once, but

1125
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 1: it doesn't go great for them. Um, it's not real

1126
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 1: easy to like, if you're France, land an army in

1127
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 1: Ireland that's going to be capable of and this this

1128
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 1: actually keeps happening for forever. In World War One, the

1129
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 1: Germans try to land a ship full of guns on

1130
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 1: in Ireland to like and it did a little bit,

1131
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 1: but the rebellion that that comes afterwards doesn't work great. Um,

1132
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 1: I don't know that that that's the there's a whole story.

1133
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 1: There are a lot a lot of people try to

1134
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:41,040
Speaker 1: land armies or guns in Ireland in order to not

1135
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 1: because they particularly care about Irish liberation, but because like

1136
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 1: the English, and this seems like an easy way to

1137
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 1: screw them up. It never quite works. Um. So when

1138
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:52,360
Speaker 1: these French guys, you know, they have their their fight,

1139
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 1: and this this kind of the fact that someone's fighting

1140
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:57,880
Speaker 1: the English leads a lot of Irish people to be like, well,

1141
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 1: we might have a shot at like doing something here.

1142
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 1: So there's a rebellion. Tim pat Coogan rights. However, rebellion

1143
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:08,720
Speaker 1: spearheaded by the United Irishman, was bloodily suppressed. At the time.

1144
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,920
Speaker 1: It was frequently said that the sev rebellion was secretly

1145
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 1: encouraged by direction of the English Prime Minister, William Pitt,

1146
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:17,360
Speaker 1: so that it would go off half cocked before the

1147
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 1: Society of United Irishman could succeed in their aim of

1148
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 1: uniting Catholic, Protestant and dissenter against the Crown. Certainly, English

1149
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 1: policy seemed directed at fermenting rather than aboording rebellion. Troops

1150
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:31,280
Speaker 1: were forcibly billeted on unwilling Catholic farm owners in the Yeomanry,

1151
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 1: the Protestant militia was given a free hand in oppressing

1152
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 1: their Catholic neighbors. Fair minded Protestants were outraged at what

1153
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 1: they saw on Easter Tuesday, April tenth at Newton Mount

1154
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:43,640
Speaker 1: Kennedy in County Wicklow. A Protestant farmer named Joseph Holt,

1155
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 1: attending the sound the town fair, was sickened to witness

1156
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 1: the ancient Britons cutting the haunches and thighs of the

1157
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 1: young women for wearing green stuff petticoats. So like pretty

1158
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 1: brutal stuff happening here, like slice and ladies at the

1159
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:58,480
Speaker 1: market because they're wearing green and that's Irish stuff. Also,

1160
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:01,400
Speaker 1: it's worth noting like one of the things that the

1161
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 1: British due to piss people off, is forced them to

1162
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 1: quarter soldiers in their homes. We joke a lot about

1163
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:08,480
Speaker 1: the Quartering Act and about like the what is the

1164
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 1: third Amendment like that that you can't quarter soldiers, and

1165
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 1: there's like there's a reason why people felt that needed

1166
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 1: to be in Yeah, Um, the English love quartering soldiers

1167
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 1: in your fucking house. Sometimes I'll just drive down the

1168
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 1: street past National Guard bases or military bases and just heckle,

1169
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 1: just be like, come into my house, motherfucker's that's right,

1170
01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 1: that's right. I'm give a ship, Marine Corps. You don't

1171
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 1: need to stay in my house. Yeah, I got an amendment,

1172
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 1: motherfucker's he number three say I ain't got. Sometimes I'll

1173
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:49,280
Speaker 1: invite like a like a like a lance corporal into

1174
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:50,560
Speaker 1: my house and be like, you know what, get the

1175
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 1: funk out, never mind, that's right, go get out of here,

1176
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:58,560
Speaker 1: Get out of here. Um, I'm gonna continue that quote

1177
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 1: from Tim pet Coogan, I respect to historian of the

1178
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 1: period has written is the most violent and tragic event

1179
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 1: in Irish history between the Jacobite Wars and the Great Famine.

1180
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 1: In the space of a few weeks, thirty thousand people

1181
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 1: peasants armed with pikes and pitchforks, defenseless women and children

1182
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 1: were shot down or blown like chaff as they charged

1183
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:16,680
Speaker 1: up to the mouth of the cannon. One of the

1184
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 1: malicious tactics was pitch capping. A canvas crown was placed

1185
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 1: on the head of an insurgent or alleged insurgent, and

1186
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 1: boiling tar was poured into the canvas. Around after this

1187
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:27,800
Speaker 1: had time to set, the cap was torn off, taking

1188
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:30,640
Speaker 1: with it much of the croppy's scalp. The term croppy

1189
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 1: came from the habit of some insurgents of cropping their

1190
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:35,640
Speaker 1: hair in the fashion of the French revolutionists. The hatred

1191
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 1: of Protestants for the Catholics was such that the commanding

1192
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:41,560
Speaker 1: English general Abercrombie became so revolted by the people he

1193
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:43,360
Speaker 1: was defending that he had as little to do with

1194
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 1: them as he possibly could. And you'll see this again

1195
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 1: later in the famine. Were like British soldiers are horrified

1196
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:50,640
Speaker 1: at some of the things being done to Irish people.

1197
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:53,040
Speaker 1: They never really do anything about it. But they're they're

1198
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 1: really really concerned. I wonder how Ambercrombie feels about his

1199
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:01,560
Speaker 1: his legacy now, Oh, I think pretty good. I mean

1200
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 1: what he thinks of it. Now, I'm saying in the

1201
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:06,640
Speaker 1: sense that he's just some sort of douche bag frat

1202
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:10,360
Speaker 1: boy style dressing. Now, look, if you were at the

1203
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 1: head of an army that is burning people scalps off

1204
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:15,960
Speaker 1: with pitch and you get to be remembered by shirtless

1205
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 1: dudes hanging out in the mall in two thousand six,

1206
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:20,720
Speaker 1: that's not the worst way that. I guess that's not

1207
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 1: the worst thing to do. But I'm just like, do

1208
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:25,080
Speaker 1: you think do you think your little your little shirtless guys,

1209
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 1: your frat boys are like they you don't think they're soft,

1210
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 1: Like they're not as hard as you were when use

1211
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 1: meulting fool scalps or you just like that's right, look

1212
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:35,880
Speaker 1: at my son. Yeah, I don't know. I mean to

1213
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 1: be fair, Abercrombie at Allister caused lots of trauma to

1214
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 1: lots of people. It's like if it's like if in

1215
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 1: very two hundred years there was like a like a

1216
01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 1: sexy gene type jeans brand called Himmler's. Yeah. Everybody's like, oh,

1217
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:52,360
Speaker 1: you've got some of those Himmlers. Those are good. It's

1218
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:56,439
Speaker 1: like that their models are hot. Yeah, like oh where, yeah,

1219
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 1: you got you got the new you know what I'm saying,

1220
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:03,680
Speaker 1: you got you're wearing a Mussolini's I got, Yeah, those

1221
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 1: look great. I got the most linear Levins like yeah. Yeah.

1222
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:12,440
Speaker 1: So for a decade or so prior to the sevente Rebellion,

1223
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 1: there was actually Ireland gets a parliament briefly, I think,

1224
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 1: for like twelve years, which on paper gives them a

1225
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 1: small degree of autonomy from England, but not really because

1226
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:24,320
Speaker 1: the parliament in Ireland is only supposed to basically do

1227
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:26,959
Speaker 1: what the Parliament in England tells them to. But after

1228
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 1: the seventy rebellion, the English are like, well, we can't

1229
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:33,560
Speaker 1: even let them have this fake degree of autonomy. So

1230
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:37,960
Speaker 1: will William Pitt the Younger bribes Irish parliamentarians to vote

1231
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 1: for what he called the active Union. And this is

1232
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 1: what makes Ireland a part of the United Kingdom. So again,

1233
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 1: Ireland votes to join the UK if you ignore all

1234
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 1: of the things about it that are not legitimate, you know, yeah,

1235
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:53,600
Speaker 1: like a lot of votes in history right, like probably

1236
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:55,920
Speaker 1: most votes in his Yeah, I mean the history of

1237
01:05:56,000 --> 01:06:00,200
Speaker 1: voting is mostly the history of bribery basically is It's

1238
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:03,200
Speaker 1: crazy though, like it like you mentioned earlier, how like

1239
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:04,920
Speaker 1: you go to like a lot of like Irish like

1240
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 1: football events and they got like like Palestinian flags. I'm like,

1241
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 1: I hope people seeing like how that picture is coming

1242
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 1: into play now, like why they would like um, understand

1243
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:21,760
Speaker 1: and empathize with the Palestinian plight in Ireland. Like they're

1244
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 1: like like, I hope is coming together now, like pictures

1245
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 1: getting pretty clear, you know, yeah that this this goes

1246
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:31,800
Speaker 1: on again where the hundreds of years and uh and

1247
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 1: we're still at that, we're at like the middle point

1248
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 1: right right if you can even say that's over right,

1249
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:39,080
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of people in Ireland, not as

1250
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:40,640
Speaker 1: many as there used to be, but you can still

1251
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 1: find folks who will be like, look, man, I mean

1252
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:46,200
Speaker 1: the island is still not united. There's yeah, there's still

1253
01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 1: some like ship going on. We're not thrilled about. Um.

1254
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:51,959
Speaker 1: That's that Most people I know are broadly like, yeah,

1255
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:54,800
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's certainly a lot better. Yeah,

1256
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 1: like the like in this period for sure, that whatever. Yeah,

1257
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 1: I mean it is I I did. I think a

1258
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:03,240
Speaker 1: lot of folks did take some joy when like Brexit

1259
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:06,680
Speaker 1: hit and England English passports. Suddenly we're worth a lot

1260
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:09,400
Speaker 1: less and some people are like going over to Ireland

1261
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:13,000
Speaker 1: to try and get Irish passports, like yeah, that's right,

1262
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:19,040
Speaker 1: come crawling back, baby, like long game, guys. So, with

1263
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 1: their own imperial propaganda, superior British productivity served as evidence

1264
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 1: that the Irish were a lesser race and they deserve

1265
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 1: to language. Under the guidance of an English power, they

1266
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:31,040
Speaker 1: were lampooned as a lazy and shiftless people. Much was

1267
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:33,480
Speaker 1: made of the method by which they planted potatoes, and

1268
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:36,440
Speaker 1: which were called lazy beds, right like because again, you

1269
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:39,040
Speaker 1: don't have to It's like you're just kind of like

1270
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:41,480
Speaker 1: dropping them in the dirt, right like that's how potato

1271
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 1: farming works. But like the English are like, look, the

1272
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 1: Irish are so lazy that they don't want to put

1273
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 1: in a hard work. They just want to like grow

1274
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:52,800
Speaker 1: potatoes and turn them a smarter Yeah. Well and also

1275
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 1: just because like well if they were to make more,

1276
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:57,960
Speaker 1: you would just take it from you just get why

1277
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 1: like you guys again, yeah, it's this infuriating dude, Like

1278
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:06,440
Speaker 1: it's pretty not great. Yeah, I'm like it reminds me

1279
01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:08,520
Speaker 1: of which may feel like a stretch, but like follow

1280
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 1: me here. It's like we all went to we all

1281
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:14,360
Speaker 1: went to We was in school during the time, which

1282
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:16,679
Speaker 1: is the same as everybody else's time out. Just like

1283
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:19,400
Speaker 1: every class you took in, like history and social studies

1284
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:23,120
Speaker 1: was telling you about how socialist countries just don't work, right,

1285
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:27,280
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you're telling me this while we're actively

1286
01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:31,360
Speaker 1: paying millions of dollars to destabilize them and then being

1287
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:34,280
Speaker 1: able to like we're spending millions of millions of dollars

1288
01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 1: to make their government's not work and then come tell

1289
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:39,640
Speaker 1: our kids, hey see there, the governments don't work. And

1290
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:44,080
Speaker 1: it's like, well, full, that's you know why, Like you're

1291
01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:47,639
Speaker 1: you're just like as anybody like connecting these dots here,

1292
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:51,160
Speaker 1: it ain't working because you're making it not work right.

1293
01:08:51,320 --> 01:08:55,040
Speaker 1: So when you're like, oh, man, they're only growing potatoes,

1294
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:56,880
Speaker 1: look at them. They're just they're lazy growing potatoes and

1295
01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:58,800
Speaker 1: they only grow so much. You know why we only

1296
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:01,599
Speaker 1: why are we growing potatoes? That's I mean, it's like

1297
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:04,880
Speaker 1: you promise people who have been enslaved that they're going

1298
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:09,800
Speaker 1: to get farmland and uh forty acres, and then you

1299
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:11,720
Speaker 1: don't give it to them, and then you develop like

1300
01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 1: a legal system that arrests huge numbers of them uh

1301
01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 1: and locks them out of the best jobs. And then

1302
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:20,920
Speaker 1: a bunch of them are very impoverished, and you go,

1303
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:22,800
Speaker 1: why why don't these people why aren't they better at

1304
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 1: making money? Well, maybe you didn't give them a lot

1305
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:29,799
Speaker 1: of options. Yeah, you steal from a group of people

1306
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:32,720
Speaker 1: all of the land that they had lived on, uh

1307
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 1: and forced them onto tinier and tinier chunks of land

1308
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,880
Speaker 1: while killing the vast majority of them. And then you're like, boy,

1309
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 1: why are they having such trouble adapting to modern economy? Geezempressed?

1310
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:46,599
Speaker 1: Why are they so sad? Yeah, it's it's all again.

1311
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:51,439
Speaker 1: It's all variations of the same story, you know. Um

1312
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:55,879
Speaker 1: so yeah, do do do do so. English media focuses

1313
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:58,759
Speaker 1: a lot on how little effort the Irish put into farming,

1314
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:02,880
Speaker 1: um why, ignoring the fact that Irish people are growing

1315
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:05,439
Speaker 1: cash crops that are exported for the profit of benefit

1316
01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:08,080
Speaker 1: of English landlords and provide a lot of the food

1317
01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:10,800
Speaker 1: that England is growing, and in fact, despite a lot

1318
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:14,559
Speaker 1: of their backwardness in terms of like agricultural techniques and whatnot.

1319
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:19,400
Speaker 1: Ireland is continuously increasing productivity in this time um, and

1320
01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:22,680
Speaker 1: it becomes England's breadbasket. It's also a growing source of

1321
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:27,720
Speaker 1: animal products Irish Ireland supplies by eight hundred, Ireland supplies

1322
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:32,000
Speaker 1: English cities with three of their beef, se of their butter,

1323
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 1: and eight six of their pork. Um just like to

1324
01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:38,280
Speaker 1: name a few things. So like again, the degree to

1325
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:42,320
Speaker 1: which all of this is absolutely central to the industrial

1326
01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:45,559
Speaker 1: revolution in England can't really be overstated because when the

1327
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:48,800
Speaker 1: Irish are providing so much food for English people that

1328
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:51,760
Speaker 1: get that, among other things, frees up English labor to

1329
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:54,680
Speaker 1: work in like these growing factory system and new industrialized

1330
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:59,519
Speaker 1: you know. Um. So the misery of life under English

1331
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:04,679
Speaker 1: domina allows most peasants just two outlets fucking and fighting. Um.

1332
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:07,640
Speaker 1: The former explains why the Irish population triples from the

1333
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:11,200
Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds of the early eighteen hundreds. Tim pat Coogan

1334
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:13,640
Speaker 1: claims that a lot of peasants basically make the decision like,

1335
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:17,920
Speaker 1: our lives can't get worse and birth controls not a thing, right,

1336
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 1: so we might as well might as well fuck you know,

1337
01:11:21,200 --> 01:11:24,479
Speaker 1: like what else is there? Um, And this is part

1338
01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 1: of why there's a birth explosion. There's also like potatoes

1339
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:29,679
Speaker 1: are a pretty good thing to eat, and so there

1340
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:32,559
Speaker 1: is calories, right, there's food for a while too. So

1341
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:35,760
Speaker 1: for a number of reasons, the Irish population just blows

1342
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:40,800
Speaker 1: up from about seventeen hundreds about eighteen hundred again like triples. Um.

1343
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:43,120
Speaker 1: And the other thing that develops over time is like

1344
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:46,479
Speaker 1: a very weird kind of fighting culture. And this is

1345
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:50,439
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of racial stereotypes um about like

1346
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 1: the Irish people as like quarrelsome and wanting to fight. Um.

1347
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:58,559
Speaker 1: But there's like there's reasons why that stereotype develops, and

1348
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:02,280
Speaker 1: it's because in Ireland again, people are very poor. They

1349
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:04,880
Speaker 1: have a history of rebelling against the crown, and they

1350
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:08,000
Speaker 1: don't have any kind of options for social advancement in

1351
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:10,519
Speaker 1: a lot of cases. And what do your young men

1352
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:13,760
Speaker 1: do when like ship's rough, They like they fight, This

1353
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:18,759
Speaker 1: happens every Yeah, I respect it, Like I mean yeah, yeah, yeah, drink,

1354
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:23,120
Speaker 1: you drink like like alcohols, like this is the last

1355
01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:27,439
Speaker 1: day on earth that there will be alcohol and yeah,

1356
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:30,840
Speaker 1: go home, you smash in and then you're just pissy

1357
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:32,840
Speaker 1: for the rest of the day because all we're gonna

1358
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:39,439
Speaker 1: have is potatoes. So let's fight like this. This happens

1359
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:41,280
Speaker 1: all over the place like this is the same ship

1360
01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:43,840
Speaker 1: people talk about, like the Appalachia, right, like Appalachia, and

1361
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:46,120
Speaker 1: it's like honor culture and like all of the and

1362
01:12:46,120 --> 01:12:48,760
Speaker 1: in Ireland kind of their version of that is called

1363
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:52,240
Speaker 1: faction fighting, which is there's this is a fascinating thing.

1364
01:12:52,280 --> 01:12:54,960
Speaker 1: I had no idea what's happening. Um, but it starts

1365
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:57,920
Speaker 1: in the County Tipperary in the early eight hundreds and

1366
01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:00,280
Speaker 1: it quickly spreads all over the island. And in the

1367
01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:04,160
Speaker 1: famine plot, Coogan explains, sometimes several hundred participants took part

1368
01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:06,840
Speaker 1: on either side. The most famous fight at ballyve A

1369
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:09,599
Speaker 1: Strand and County Kerry in eighteen thirty four involved some

1370
01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:12,880
Speaker 1: three thousand contestants, of whom over two hundred were killed.

1371
01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:16,360
Speaker 1: The fighting gangs were based on extended families or on parishes,

1372
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:18,680
Speaker 1: and normally fights took place either at fairs or on

1373
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:22,000
Speaker 1: feast days or public holidays. The weapons were chiefly seasoned

1374
01:13:22,040 --> 01:13:25,200
Speaker 1: blackthorn sticks, whose lethal properties were sometimes added to by

1375
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:27,879
Speaker 1: the insertion of lead in the butts. These killing instruments,

1376
01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:30,680
Speaker 1: where the origin of the lailes carried today by by

1377
01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:33,479
Speaker 1: today's lepre con dolls, and even more deadly weapon was

1378
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 1: the white thorn steak, a cut from which could prove fatal.

1379
01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:40,000
Speaker 1: Sometimes sides and slash hooks were used. So there's just

1380
01:13:40,040 --> 01:13:44,439
Speaker 1: like this again, respect it like pretty. It's like it's like,

1381
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:46,840
Speaker 1: you know, you don't have m M A, but you

1382
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:48,840
Speaker 1: can get a couple of thousand people together to fight

1383
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:51,920
Speaker 1: in the field. Hey, just like me and my cousins.

1384
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:53,920
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Me and my cousin's couple

1385
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:56,599
Speaker 1: homies down the street. We get to beat this block.

1386
01:13:57,840 --> 01:14:01,519
Speaker 1: We're gonna scrap with that block, and it's all it's

1387
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:03,720
Speaker 1: all in fun. If you die, you die. I don't

1388
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:06,280
Speaker 1: hate people are gonna die. Some people gonna die. You

1389
01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:09,960
Speaker 1: better then muscle up. Let you talk about like this,

1390
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:11,880
Speaker 1: this ship is happening and like like we talked in

1391
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:14,719
Speaker 1: episodes like this is happening like Georgia. Like there's different

1392
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:17,240
Speaker 1: kinds of like like it. All over the world. People

1393
01:14:17,360 --> 01:14:19,679
Speaker 1: find excuses to get it in big groups and beat

1394
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:23,240
Speaker 1: the ship out of each other. Um, we'll be, we

1395
01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:26,040
Speaker 1: will be. Look when you you living in you living

1396
01:14:26,040 --> 01:14:27,759
Speaker 1: in the in the city of l A. You're sitting

1397
01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:30,760
Speaker 1: on the porch. One of your uncles will be like, hey,

1398
01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:33,040
Speaker 1: you think you could beat that full up and you're like,

1399
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:36,479
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, come here,

1400
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:39,280
Speaker 1: Hey fight my nephew. And then now y'all just in

1401
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:42,400
Speaker 1: the street fighting. You know what I'm saying. Okay, you know,

1402
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:47,559
Speaker 1: it's just like we're bored. Yeah, I don't hate, We're

1403
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:49,560
Speaker 1: just bored, you know what I'm saying. And yeah, I

1404
01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:50,960
Speaker 1: tell you what. Let me tell you. Let me tell

1405
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:54,160
Speaker 1: you what I learned in those days. If somebody hits

1406
01:14:54,160 --> 01:14:56,640
Speaker 1: you in the middle of your nose, you're gonna go

1407
01:14:56,760 --> 01:14:59,920
Speaker 1: blind from tears. So don't let nobody hit you. In

1408
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,040
Speaker 1: Aga knows that was one of great lessons I ever learned.

1409
01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:06,320
Speaker 1: Head down, hands up, down, hands up now again. So

1410
01:15:06,400 --> 01:15:08,400
Speaker 1: there's a lot going on here. Um, but this is

1411
01:15:08,439 --> 01:15:10,519
Speaker 1: not like the English make a lot of this in

1412
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:14,680
Speaker 1: their propaganda about like how uniquely fighting the Irish are,

1413
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:17,640
Speaker 1: Like we this happens all over the world, everywhere, and

1414
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:19,600
Speaker 1: everywhere in the world. It's just what happens when like

1415
01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:22,000
Speaker 1: you have a bunch of young men without much in

1416
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:25,040
Speaker 1: the way of options for the future. You've you've ruined

1417
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:28,120
Speaker 1: any sense of purpose and any forum, and that you've

1418
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:31,280
Speaker 1: also like they're angry because the situation is unfair, but

1419
01:15:31,320 --> 01:15:33,639
Speaker 1: they it has become very clear that we're not going

1420
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:37,920
Speaker 1: to we're not going to beat the British military. You know. Um.

1421
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:40,439
Speaker 1: It's also you know, this kind of feeds into this

1422
01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:43,320
Speaker 1: system of what are called secret societies at the time,

1423
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:45,960
Speaker 1: and when we talk about like that term means something different.

1424
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:51,240
Speaker 1: Now basically what's happening is insurgent groups are over ireland, right,

1425
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:53,679
Speaker 1: and there's different ones right as well. We'll see later.

1426
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:56,040
Speaker 1: There are some kind of secret societies that are are

1427
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:58,840
Speaker 1: made up of landlords or in support of the landlords.

1428
01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:01,000
Speaker 1: There's some that are in support of just Protestant cause,

1429
01:16:01,439 --> 01:16:04,160
Speaker 1: and there's others that are basically battling the status quo

1430
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:07,640
Speaker 1: that are like like actually fighting against the these this

1431
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:11,520
Speaker 1: absentee landlord system or like Catholic groups funding against Protestants.

1432
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:13,800
Speaker 1: Probably one of the more interesting of these groups were

1433
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:16,880
Speaker 1: called the Rock It's um. They declared allegiance to a

1434
01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:19,800
Speaker 1: mythical captain Rock. This is not a guy who existed,

1435
01:16:20,160 --> 01:16:23,679
Speaker 1: but like they would the Rocks would carry out attacks

1436
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:26,240
Speaker 1: on landlords, like they would murder or beat up landlords

1437
01:16:26,280 --> 01:16:29,520
Speaker 1: or rent collectors, and then they would write letters justifying

1438
01:16:29,560 --> 01:16:32,080
Speaker 1: what they've done, signed by Captain Rock. It was kind

1439
01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:33,800
Speaker 1: of like an I M. Spartacus sort of all those

1440
01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:36,080
Speaker 1: Spartacus was real, obviously, you know. It's that sort of

1441
01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:38,400
Speaker 1: thing we're claiming that there's like this, you know, my

1442
01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:43,479
Speaker 1: brain is flooding right now with some sort of puns

1443
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:46,320
Speaker 1: and word plays about oh just a Wayne the Rock

1444
01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:50,000
Speaker 1: Johnson or Chris Rock in slapt and like it's so

1445
01:16:50,080 --> 01:16:53,439
Speaker 1: hard to not go with the Chris Rock like and

1446
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:55,479
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, when you can't land on a

1447
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:57,439
Speaker 1: joke because there's too many of them fire in it.

1448
01:16:57,680 --> 01:16:59,840
Speaker 1: That's what just happened right now. You just remember that

1449
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:04,759
Speaker 1: thing that happened with Chris Rock, folks. Yes, um, actually

1450
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:06,960
Speaker 1: in terms of if you if you're looking for something

1451
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:11,320
Speaker 1: to laugh at prop the most powerful secret society in

1452
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:14,640
Speaker 1: this period were called the White Boys. Um all right,

1453
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:21,160
Speaker 1: all right, um. Gustav the de Beaumont, who was a

1454
01:17:21,200 --> 01:17:23,960
Speaker 1: sympathetic French intellectual at the time, wrote this of the

1455
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:27,519
Speaker 1: White Boys quote, they lived by an atrocious, savage code

1456
01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:30,960
Speaker 1: worthy of a semi barbarious population which abandoned to itself

1457
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:33,000
Speaker 1: and has no light to guide its efforts, finds no

1458
01:17:33,080 --> 01:17:35,880
Speaker 1: sympathy to assuage its passions, and is reduced to look

1459
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:38,280
Speaker 1: to rude instincts for the means of safety and protection.

1460
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:41,519
Speaker 1: These are banditti of a singular kind. To obtain arms

1461
01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:43,960
Speaker 1: or vengeance, they commit all sorts of outrages while they

1462
01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:47,080
Speaker 1: abstain from the gold or silver under their hands. So

1463
01:17:47,200 --> 01:17:49,719
Speaker 1: he's kind of pointing out that like they they're really

1464
01:17:49,880 --> 01:17:52,599
Speaker 1: more interested in vengeance than making money. They're not like

1465
01:17:52,680 --> 01:17:56,000
Speaker 1: traditional They're not like criminals in that sense, they really

1466
01:17:56,000 --> 01:17:58,320
Speaker 1: want to Like Fux, some ship up um and in

1467
01:17:58,360 --> 01:18:00,519
Speaker 1: many ways the White Boys are a pre to a

1468
01:18:00,520 --> 01:18:03,840
Speaker 1: lot of modern insurgent terrorist groups. Um. Some of them

1469
01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:06,680
Speaker 1: were quite aeraded too. And in their manifesto kind of

1470
01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:08,960
Speaker 1: they have like this thing that is explaining what they're

1471
01:18:08,960 --> 01:18:12,280
Speaker 1: fighting for. They write, quote, let us strike the culpable

1472
01:18:12,360 --> 01:18:14,719
Speaker 1: not only in their persons, but in their dearest interests

1473
01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:18,240
Speaker 1: and affections. Let not only their cattle be how hamstrung,

1474
01:18:18,280 --> 01:18:20,960
Speaker 1: their houses, burned, their land, turned up, their harvest, their

1475
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:24,160
Speaker 1: harvests destroyed, But let their friends and relations be devoted

1476
01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:27,920
Speaker 1: to death, the wives and daughters to dishonor um, which

1477
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 1: is there's an allegation that when they talk about wanting

1478
01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:32,840
Speaker 1: people's wives and daughters to be dishonored, that they're like

1479
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:36,679
Speaker 1: threatening to commit rape of They may they may yeah,

1480
01:18:36,680 --> 01:18:39,200
Speaker 1: they may have been. Um. You know this is this

1481
01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:45,120
Speaker 1: is not not a pretty series of things that are happening. UM.

1482
01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:47,519
Speaker 1: So the white boys and they see them is like

1483
01:18:47,560 --> 01:18:50,719
Speaker 1: a precursor to the kind of anti colonial insurgent groups

1484
01:18:50,720 --> 01:18:54,080
Speaker 1: that would dominate a lot of late twentieth century geopolitics. Right,

1485
01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:56,519
Speaker 1: you can see this is like the first stirrings of

1486
01:18:56,560 --> 01:19:00,000
Speaker 1: some things that are going to happen all over the world. UM.

1487
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:02,680
Speaker 1: In Ireland, also in this period gives birth to what

1488
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:07,760
Speaker 1: some call scholars consider the first organized mass nonviolent resistance

1489
01:19:07,800 --> 01:19:12,000
Speaker 1: campaign in history. UM. It's organized by a guy named

1490
01:19:12,080 --> 01:19:15,439
Speaker 1: Daniel O'Connell, who was one of the very few members

1491
01:19:15,439 --> 01:19:18,160
Speaker 1: Ireland's part of the UK Right. So I there are

1492
01:19:18,320 --> 01:19:21,120
Speaker 1: it is possible for Irish people to get elected to parliament.

1493
01:19:21,439 --> 01:19:24,400
Speaker 1: There's a long history of like what because like we'll

1494
01:19:24,439 --> 01:19:27,519
Speaker 1: actually we're about to talk about this. So O'Connell rises

1495
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:30,160
Speaker 1: to prominence first as a lawyer. Um, and he forms

1496
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:33,599
Speaker 1: an organization called the Catholic Association in eighteen twenty three,

1497
01:19:34,040 --> 01:19:37,519
Speaker 1: and this was the first semi effective Irish political party

1498
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:41,719
Speaker 1: in history. Um. The Catholic Association and O'Connell spent years

1499
01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:45,240
Speaker 1: fighting for Catholic emancipation, which they win in eighteen twenty nine.

1500
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:48,680
Speaker 1: And that's what makes ancipation. Yeah, because Catholics you're not

1501
01:19:48,720 --> 01:19:52,400
Speaker 1: allowed to like hold land or or political office right

1502
01:19:52,720 --> 01:19:54,960
Speaker 1: like you are. There is like a degree of um

1503
01:19:55,080 --> 01:19:57,519
Speaker 1: like apartheid for Catholics kind of in the legal sense

1504
01:19:57,560 --> 01:19:59,760
Speaker 1: of the word in this period in Ireland. And so

1505
01:20:00,080 --> 01:20:02,880
Speaker 1: Connell wins the right in this organization win the right

1506
01:20:02,920 --> 01:20:05,840
Speaker 1: for Catholics to sit on the Parliament. Right, so now

1507
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:07,680
Speaker 1: you can have because Irish people could be on the

1508
01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:10,479
Speaker 1: Parliament before, but they had to be Irish Protestants. Because

1509
01:20:10,479 --> 01:20:12,799
Speaker 1: of O'Connell, you get your first. He is the first

1510
01:20:12,920 --> 01:20:17,519
Speaker 1: Catholic Irish legislator in elected or like in modern elector

1511
01:20:17,520 --> 01:20:21,760
Speaker 1: I think maybe before she got all fuck. Um. This

1512
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:25,080
Speaker 1: also opens up like Catholics can be lawyers in ways

1513
01:20:25,080 --> 01:20:27,799
Speaker 1: they couldn't before. And they're allowed to be military officers

1514
01:20:27,800 --> 01:20:30,600
Speaker 1: in the British military now. Um, so this is like

1515
01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:33,880
Speaker 1: a big civil rights campaign, right, So O'Connell forms this

1516
01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:37,080
Speaker 1: political party. They fight for like seven years and they win.

1517
01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:39,160
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a pretty massive victory, you know,

1518
01:20:39,200 --> 01:20:42,360
Speaker 1: for Irish civil rights in this period. So the next year,

1519
01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:45,519
Speaker 1: eighteen thirty, O'Connell wins election to the Parliament and he

1520
01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:47,960
Speaker 1: becomes the first Catholic in modern history to sit in

1521
01:20:47,960 --> 01:20:51,360
Speaker 1: the English Parliament. And he's a pretty cool dude. He's

1522
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:55,760
Speaker 1: poor by parliamentary standards, which means he's rich, but not

1523
01:20:55,960 --> 01:20:59,599
Speaker 1: rich compared to the other rich people, right like you know, um,

1524
01:20:59,640 --> 01:21:03,120
Speaker 1: and he dresses like a normal person. So the British

1525
01:21:03,479 --> 01:21:06,240
Speaker 1: elected leaders call him the King of the beggars because

1526
01:21:06,280 --> 01:21:08,920
Speaker 1: he he looks poor to them. Again, is not a

1527
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:12,840
Speaker 1: poor person. There are minimum financial requirements to be in parliament, right,

1528
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:17,240
Speaker 1: so he's not he's not impoverished, but they they see

1529
01:21:17,320 --> 01:21:19,360
Speaker 1: him as impossible, and they also see him as like

1530
01:21:19,760 --> 01:21:23,240
Speaker 1: he is the representative of the hordes of working poor

1531
01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:26,559
Speaker 1: in Ireland, you know. Um. Tim pat Coogan writes he

1532
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:28,960
Speaker 1: deserves to be regarded as the founder of the modern

1533
01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:32,520
Speaker 1: peaceful civil rights movement. His hatred of oppression was universal.

1534
01:21:32,960 --> 01:21:35,679
Speaker 1: My heart walks abroad he said, and wherever the miserable

1535
01:21:35,800 --> 01:21:38,000
Speaker 1: is to be suckered and the slaves to be set free,

1536
01:21:38,040 --> 01:21:40,280
Speaker 1: there my spirit is at home, and I do like

1537
01:21:40,400 --> 01:21:43,519
Speaker 1: to dwell in America. He was deified by the anti

1538
01:21:43,560 --> 01:21:46,080
Speaker 1: slavery movement for his speeches in their favor and for

1539
01:21:46,160 --> 01:21:49,639
Speaker 1: the manner in which he turned down substantial money offers

1540
01:21:49,680 --> 01:21:52,400
Speaker 1: from slave owners, who commanded twenty seven votes in the

1541
01:21:52,439 --> 01:21:56,719
Speaker 1: House of Commons during the Emancipation Battle, saying, gentlemen, God

1542
01:21:56,840 --> 01:21:59,679
Speaker 1: knows that I speak for the saddest people the sun sees.

1543
01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:02,519
Speaker 1: But may my right hand forget its cunning and made

1544
01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:04,799
Speaker 1: my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth before

1545
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:08,040
Speaker 1: to help Ireland, I keep silent on the Negro question.

1546
01:22:08,880 --> 01:22:11,080
Speaker 1: And what he's saying there is there's a vote like

1547
01:22:11,240 --> 01:22:14,559
Speaker 1: in England band slavery in this period, right, And a

1548
01:22:14,600 --> 01:22:17,800
Speaker 1: bunch of parliamentarians are like, hey, dude, vote with us

1549
01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:20,240
Speaker 1: to keep slavery and will help you out in gaining

1550
01:22:20,280 --> 01:22:23,120
Speaker 1: some concessions for Irish people in Parlimad. And he's like,

1551
01:22:23,120 --> 01:22:24,680
Speaker 1: I couldn't. I would never be able to live with

1552
01:22:24,680 --> 01:22:28,240
Speaker 1: myself if I did that. Like our situation is bad,

1553
01:22:28,320 --> 01:22:30,800
Speaker 1: but like this is I I could not. I could

1554
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:35,200
Speaker 1: not do that. It's a it's a principal moral stand.

1555
01:22:36,120 --> 01:22:40,240
Speaker 1: He denounces George Washington for owning slaves, which gets him

1556
01:22:40,280 --> 01:22:42,799
Speaker 1: He gets a lot of the the early Irish Diastra

1557
01:22:42,920 --> 01:22:45,639
Speaker 1: in New York hate him because he like hates George Washington,

1558
01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:48,160
Speaker 1: because George Washington owns a bunch of slaves or owned

1559
01:22:48,160 --> 01:22:51,479
Speaker 1: a bunch of ladies. At this point, um, he gets

1560
01:22:51,479 --> 01:22:54,280
Speaker 1: attacked a lot by US newspapers. The New York Herald

1561
01:22:54,640 --> 01:22:57,719
Speaker 1: accuses him of having a bunch of concubines and illegitimate children,

1562
01:22:57,800 --> 01:23:02,240
Speaker 1: because again he's like he thinks slavery's at um. By

1563
01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:05,439
Speaker 1: the eighteen forties, he was an old man who had

1564
01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:09,120
Speaker 1: spent decades fighting for his people. In eighteen forty three

1565
01:23:09,160 --> 01:23:12,519
Speaker 1: he embarked on one last great battle repealing the Act

1566
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:15,360
Speaker 1: of Union. Right, and this thing that that brings Ireland

1567
01:23:15,400 --> 01:23:18,880
Speaker 1: into the UK. Given total English dominance of parliament, this

1568
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:22,400
Speaker 1: was not seen as possible, right, like, in a in

1569
01:23:22,439 --> 01:23:25,560
Speaker 1: a quote unquote legitimate way. The English Parliament is not

1570
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:30,479
Speaker 1: going to vote to give up Ireland, right, Yeah, But

1571
01:23:30,880 --> 01:23:33,320
Speaker 1: he decides, well, fuck I don't. I'm not going to

1572
01:23:33,360 --> 01:23:36,320
Speaker 1: try and convince a bunch of English rich assholes that

1573
01:23:36,400 --> 01:23:40,360
Speaker 1: Ireland ought to be free. Um. So he creates what

1574
01:23:40,479 --> 01:23:43,759
Speaker 1: some people will say is the first modern civil disobedience campaign.

1575
01:23:44,120 --> 01:23:46,920
Speaker 1: He holds a series of what are called monster meetings,

1576
01:23:46,920 --> 01:23:49,759
Speaker 1: which are where huge numbers of Irish people as symbol

1577
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:53,080
Speaker 1: to protest in favor of independence. The first one of

1578
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:55,920
Speaker 1: these is a hundred and twenty thousand people, and crowd

1579
01:23:55,960 --> 01:23:57,960
Speaker 1: sizes grow over the course of the year that he's

1580
01:23:58,000 --> 01:24:01,160
Speaker 1: doing this to three hundred thousand to five hundred thousand

1581
01:24:01,160 --> 01:24:03,679
Speaker 1: at a meeting in Cork. By August of that year,

1582
01:24:03,720 --> 01:24:07,280
Speaker 1: he's succeeded in assembling his largest crowd yet, seven hundred

1583
01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:10,880
Speaker 1: and fifty thousand people. That's basically a tenth of the

1584
01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:15,320
Speaker 1: Irish population. More than that, really, this is forties you said, yeah,

1585
01:24:15,320 --> 01:24:19,120
Speaker 1: there's he gets three quarters of a million people to

1586
01:24:19,200 --> 01:24:22,720
Speaker 1: gather to protest for their independence. Um. And again there's

1587
01:24:22,720 --> 01:24:24,519
Speaker 1: a lot of I I went over the fact that

1588
01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:26,639
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stereotypes of the Irish is drunken,

1589
01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:29,640
Speaker 1: violent in this period. He's very aware of that, and

1590
01:24:29,720 --> 01:24:34,960
Speaker 1: so there's this kind of volunteer order police force at

1591
01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:37,600
Speaker 1: these protests to make sure that there's no alcohol and

1592
01:24:37,640 --> 01:24:41,240
Speaker 1: there's no fighting um that people are staying absolutely in

1593
01:24:41,320 --> 01:24:44,720
Speaker 1: line or scrupulously abiding by the laws outside of the

1594
01:24:44,760 --> 01:24:47,920
Speaker 1: fact that they're gathering to to make this protest um.

1595
01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:50,240
Speaker 1: And that makes it really hard for the British government

1596
01:24:50,240 --> 01:24:53,160
Speaker 1: to like stop this stuff, right because there's folks are

1597
01:24:53,200 --> 01:24:55,639
Speaker 1: so disciplined, they have trouble finding kind of an end

1598
01:24:55,960 --> 01:24:58,800
Speaker 1: to blow this movement up. Um. And and it's this

1599
01:24:58,880 --> 01:25:00,720
Speaker 1: is a real problem because it is like, you know,

1600
01:25:01,160 --> 01:25:04,040
Speaker 1: when you've got seven hundred and fifty thousand people assembling

1601
01:25:04,120 --> 01:25:07,280
Speaker 1: for something, well that's potentially a military issue. Right, if

1602
01:25:07,280 --> 01:25:09,679
Speaker 1: you can get seven fifty thousand folks together for anything,

1603
01:25:09,680 --> 01:25:11,960
Speaker 1: you could cause some problems for the government. You know,

1604
01:25:12,280 --> 01:25:14,560
Speaker 1: Like that's a lot of motherfu that's a lot. Today

1605
01:25:14,680 --> 01:25:18,759
Speaker 1: there was a fucking protest in the US with seven people. Yeah,

1606
01:25:18,800 --> 01:25:21,320
Speaker 1: that's some ship could could go down. Obviously, we we

1607
01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:22,680
Speaker 1: had like that many people out in the street just

1608
01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:24,400
Speaker 1: try to stop the Iraq war and it did nothing,

1609
01:25:24,439 --> 01:25:27,320
Speaker 1: but it could it could mean, it could have. Yeah,

1610
01:25:27,400 --> 01:25:29,680
Speaker 1: it's a lot of thing if if day was up

1611
01:25:29,720 --> 01:25:32,200
Speaker 1: on the British was up on just you know this

1612
01:25:32,880 --> 01:25:34,760
Speaker 1: Oh no, I hadn't invented yet, but I'm like, no,

1613
01:25:35,320 --> 01:25:36,960
Speaker 1: let's up with the tear gas. I was like, yeah,

1614
01:25:37,000 --> 01:25:39,160
Speaker 1: could have just do what you do now, which is

1615
01:25:39,200 --> 01:25:42,840
Speaker 1: just we are building to that prop Okay, but it

1616
01:25:42,960 --> 01:25:44,880
Speaker 1: is like I think if you wanted to, if there

1617
01:25:44,920 --> 01:25:49,200
Speaker 1: were a comparable civil disobedience movement in the United States,

1618
01:25:49,200 --> 01:25:51,519
Speaker 1: it would be it would it would be putting twenty

1619
01:25:51,600 --> 01:25:53,880
Speaker 1: or thirty million people into the streets in a single

1620
01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:58,040
Speaker 1: location day, which I don't think could happen logistically, like

1621
01:25:58,080 --> 01:26:00,320
Speaker 1: we don't have the roads for that. It's not obvious,

1622
01:26:01,680 --> 01:26:05,559
Speaker 1: but it's this is this is huge. So O'Connell plans

1623
01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:08,960
Speaker 1: to hold his most critical meeting on October eighth in

1624
01:26:09,080 --> 01:26:12,320
Speaker 1: Clontarf near Dublin. By this point, the powers that be

1625
01:26:12,439 --> 01:26:16,120
Speaker 1: have grown terrified of what O'Connell is assembling. Um so

1626
01:26:16,280 --> 01:26:19,360
Speaker 1: his you know, they have trouble because the meetings are peaceful.

1627
01:26:19,360 --> 01:26:22,920
Speaker 1: But on October, in October of eighteen forty three, they decide, well,

1628
01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:25,519
Speaker 1: fuck it, like I don't care. Wait, we don't. We're

1629
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:26,960
Speaker 1: not going to care anymore, but we're not going to

1630
01:26:27,000 --> 01:26:31,320
Speaker 1: pretend to care that he's followed the rules. The Irish

1631
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:34,000
Speaker 1: do not have a right to organize for independence, so

1632
01:26:34,040 --> 01:26:36,719
Speaker 1: they ban his meeting, and then they gather an army

1633
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:39,880
Speaker 1: and they sail warships into the port and train long

1634
01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:42,880
Speaker 1: range cannons on the meeting site and say, if you gather,

1635
01:26:43,479 --> 01:26:46,000
Speaker 1: you get a million people together, we are going to

1636
01:26:46,080 --> 01:26:50,720
Speaker 1: show you with naval artillery. Yeah we're not just like

1637
01:26:50,760 --> 01:26:53,120
Speaker 1: we are shooting guns into a broad We will pound

1638
01:26:53,200 --> 01:26:59,680
Speaker 1: you with bombs like yeah yeah. O'Connell has a choice here,

1639
01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:02,879
Speaker 1: and the choice that a lot of civil disobedience campaigners

1640
01:27:02,880 --> 01:27:05,400
Speaker 1: have had. It's the choice Martin Luther King made versions

1641
01:27:05,439 --> 01:27:08,760
Speaker 1: of where it's like, Okay, if we assemble peacefully here,

1642
01:27:09,320 --> 01:27:11,960
Speaker 1: they're gonna funk a lot of people up. Do we

1643
01:27:12,040 --> 01:27:15,240
Speaker 1: do it? And he decides no, He decides not to

1644
01:27:15,320 --> 01:27:18,200
Speaker 1: risk those lives, and he cancels the meeting. Um he

1645
01:27:18,280 --> 01:27:21,280
Speaker 1: gets arrested, he serves four months in prison for conspiracy.

1646
01:27:21,840 --> 01:27:24,200
Speaker 1: And the fact that he refuses to push the British

1647
01:27:24,280 --> 01:27:26,720
Speaker 1: government to force them to either put up or shut up.

1648
01:27:27,000 --> 01:27:29,360
Speaker 1: A lot of future Irish activists are going to see

1649
01:27:29,360 --> 01:27:32,920
Speaker 1: this as evidence that like peaceful protest doesn't work right.

1650
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:35,000
Speaker 1: This is a big part of like why the things

1651
01:27:35,040 --> 01:27:39,400
Speaker 1: that happened the nineteen sixteen Rising, why the decades and

1652
01:27:39,439 --> 01:27:42,040
Speaker 1: decades of insurgent terrorism and stuff like a lot of

1653
01:27:42,080 --> 01:27:44,680
Speaker 1: them will point back to O'Connell and be like, we

1654
01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:48,560
Speaker 1: we we tried, like people tried to do this peacefully

1655
01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:52,040
Speaker 1: and and you threatened to kill us. So what else?

1656
01:27:52,080 --> 01:27:55,440
Speaker 1: What are what are the options? I guess we'll make box. Yeah, yeah,

1657
01:27:55,920 --> 01:27:59,439
Speaker 1: that's where you went, you know. Yeah, um wow. I'm

1658
01:27:59,479 --> 01:28:02,559
Speaker 1: always I'm always learly like and this is just my

1659
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:05,800
Speaker 1: own sort of baggage. I'm always leary when I hear, like,

1660
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:08,479
Speaker 1: you know, a book say this dude was the first

1661
01:28:08,760 --> 01:28:11,680
Speaker 1: version of something, especially how I dude when I'm like,

1662
01:28:12,360 --> 01:28:17,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, but that being said this, I when

1663
01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:20,760
Speaker 1: you said O'Connell, like a lot of like things from

1664
01:28:20,760 --> 01:28:24,880
Speaker 1: my black studies like started popping up of like no, wait,

1665
01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:27,080
Speaker 1: we we talk about him off you know what I'm saying.

1666
01:28:27,080 --> 01:28:29,200
Speaker 1: I didn't know the story toil just now, but his

1667
01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:31,240
Speaker 1: name like rang a lot of bells for me. And

1668
01:28:31,280 --> 01:28:32,920
Speaker 1: it's when I try to be clear here that like

1669
01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:36,000
Speaker 1: you will historians will claim that I'm not like, I

1670
01:28:36,040 --> 01:28:39,280
Speaker 1: can't comprehensively say no one else ever tried anything like this.

1671
01:28:39,800 --> 01:28:42,280
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm calling you on that. He does get

1672
01:28:42,560 --> 01:28:44,799
Speaker 1: credit from a lot of people for this. He's certainly

1673
01:28:44,840 --> 01:28:48,520
Speaker 1: like a seminal figure in the concept of non violence resistance.

1674
01:28:49,560 --> 01:28:55,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, this this this, yeah, like I this is

1675
01:28:55,080 --> 01:28:56,920
Speaker 1: one of those dope moments on this show where like

1676
01:28:57,000 --> 01:28:59,479
Speaker 1: some something that you may know like vaguely kind of

1677
01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:03,080
Speaker 1: like final he comes in view and you're like, oh,

1678
01:29:03,080 --> 01:29:05,519
Speaker 1: it's complicated and a lot of ways, like I see

1679
01:29:05,960 --> 01:29:09,759
Speaker 1: the way that you're describing, like how he like didn't

1680
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:13,599
Speaker 1: take that next step, you know in apartheid South Africa,

1681
01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:16,559
Speaker 1: Like you know, people make those claims about Nelson Mandela

1682
01:29:16,640 --> 01:29:19,800
Speaker 1: that there was like another step he did didn't take

1683
01:29:20,400 --> 01:29:22,920
Speaker 1: and that you know what I'm saying, and where when

1684
01:29:23,040 --> 01:29:25,920
Speaker 1: he became more radicalized, you know what I'm saying, and

1685
01:29:25,960 --> 01:29:29,840
Speaker 1: like and so you have modern like activists that are like, uh,

1686
01:29:31,400 --> 01:29:34,200
Speaker 1: I appreciate you. You took the rock far enough, or

1687
01:29:34,200 --> 01:29:36,040
Speaker 1: didn't take the rock far enough that you took as

1688
01:29:36,080 --> 01:29:38,320
Speaker 1: far as you could go, but look, you wasn't down

1689
01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:41,040
Speaker 1: to shoot. Yeah, And this is I mean, you'll always

1690
01:29:41,720 --> 01:29:43,160
Speaker 1: I think that's always going to be the case with

1691
01:29:43,200 --> 01:29:46,559
Speaker 1: everyone who does anything good within the context of like

1692
01:29:46,600 --> 01:29:48,920
Speaker 1: the civil rights movement, there's always and anyone who was

1693
01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:53,840
Speaker 1: like anyone who is organizing for radical social change pretty

1694
01:29:53,920 --> 01:29:56,760
Speaker 1: much always hits a point where they reached the end

1695
01:29:56,840 --> 01:30:00,679
Speaker 1: of their personal willingness to fight for kind of aradical change.

1696
01:30:00,720 --> 01:30:02,920
Speaker 1: And so like nobody's perfect. We all did that, Like,

1697
01:30:03,200 --> 01:30:05,639
Speaker 1: there are things that we all believe right now that

1698
01:30:05,840 --> 01:30:07,640
Speaker 1: in a couple of generations folks would be like, how

1699
01:30:07,640 --> 01:30:09,559
Speaker 1: did you put up with this? Though? Ye like, I

1700
01:30:09,560 --> 01:30:11,439
Speaker 1: got I get why you were protesting for this and this,

1701
01:30:11,479 --> 01:30:12,920
Speaker 1: but how how didn you have a problem with you know,

1702
01:30:12,960 --> 01:30:16,799
Speaker 1: that's just like the march of time ship right, um,

1703
01:30:16,840 --> 01:30:18,960
Speaker 1: And I'm not like I think it'd be unreasonable to

1704
01:30:19,040 --> 01:30:21,120
Speaker 1: condemn O'Connell for what he did. It's just like, this

1705
01:30:21,200 --> 01:30:23,160
Speaker 1: is what happened, right Like, he made the call that

1706
01:30:23,200 --> 01:30:25,519
Speaker 1: he made, and then the things that happened afterwards happened,

1707
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:28,519
Speaker 1: And it's worth understanding that, And it's worth understanding that

1708
01:30:28,600 --> 01:30:31,559
Speaker 1: there is a point I'm never gonna be forgiving, like

1709
01:30:31,720 --> 01:30:34,479
Speaker 1: the I RA for setting off a fucking bombs and

1710
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:37,360
Speaker 1: random bars and ship like, there's fun up things that

1711
01:30:37,479 --> 01:30:41,320
Speaker 1: happen in the the armed portion of the struggle for independence.

1712
01:30:41,680 --> 01:30:44,720
Speaker 1: But when some of those advocates go back and say, like, well,

1713
01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:47,920
Speaker 1: we gave the non violent ship to try. They're not wrong,

1714
01:30:48,080 --> 01:30:52,519
Speaker 1: you know, um, and that's worth that's worth acknowledging from

1715
01:30:52,600 --> 01:30:56,479
Speaker 1: historical standpoint. So that's the end of eighteen forty three.

1716
01:30:57,000 --> 01:31:00,320
Speaker 1: In the summer of eighteen forty five, an uma seat

1717
01:31:00,760 --> 01:31:05,680
Speaker 1: or water mold, known today as fight oh Flora infestans.

1718
01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:08,760
Speaker 1: That's the best I can do. Like that, it's like

1719
01:31:08,800 --> 01:31:10,640
Speaker 1: an English name, last name. You know, you're not going

1720
01:31:10,680 --> 01:31:12,840
Speaker 1: to get it perfect. The last four words you said,

1721
01:31:12,840 --> 01:31:14,200
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know what you just said.

1722
01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:17,760
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, it's a fungus, right, it starts to

1723
01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:20,360
Speaker 1: spread throughout Europe. We're not gonna get into a ton

1724
01:31:20,360 --> 01:31:23,640
Speaker 1: of detail because again, this is like particularly there's a

1725
01:31:23,640 --> 01:31:25,840
Speaker 1: lot of coverage that are like, really, blame this this

1726
01:31:25,920 --> 01:31:28,320
Speaker 1: fungus on all of the things that happen. It's not.

1727
01:31:28,360 --> 01:31:30,920
Speaker 1: The fungus is fault. The fungus is like a thing

1728
01:31:31,000 --> 01:31:33,519
Speaker 1: that it's It's like it's like blaming the disaster in

1729
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:37,800
Speaker 1: Hurricane Katrina on the hurricane when it's like that's that's

1730
01:31:37,800 --> 01:31:42,840
Speaker 1: not really what I'm angry about, you know. But like this,

1731
01:31:42,840 --> 01:31:44,840
Speaker 1: this thing, like this, this this is an important part

1732
01:31:44,840 --> 01:31:47,800
Speaker 1: of the story. This this thing starts to hit in

1733
01:31:47,840 --> 01:31:52,000
Speaker 1: Europe right um crops start to fail. It starts. It

1734
01:31:52,040 --> 01:31:54,599
Speaker 1: becomes increasingly clear that like, not only is there this

1735
01:31:55,040 --> 01:31:58,360
Speaker 1: thing affecting potatoes all over the continent, but it's like

1736
01:31:58,520 --> 01:32:01,839
Speaker 1: pretty bad. It's wiping out large chunks of the harvest.

1737
01:32:02,240 --> 01:32:05,599
Speaker 1: Newspapers and farmers almanacs note with fear as it rampages

1738
01:32:05,640 --> 01:32:08,320
Speaker 1: through crops, first on the continent and then in England.

1739
01:32:09,000 --> 01:32:12,600
Speaker 1: On August eighteen forty five, it is discovered for the

1740
01:32:12,640 --> 01:32:15,960
Speaker 1: first time in Ireland at the Dublin Royal Botanical Gardens.

1741
01:32:16,000 --> 01:32:18,479
Speaker 1: Obviously it probably came somewhere else first, but you're going

1742
01:32:18,560 --> 01:32:20,800
Speaker 1: to notice it at the Royal Botanical Gardens first because

1743
01:32:20,840 --> 01:32:23,880
Speaker 1: they've got the most eyes on them. The population of

1744
01:32:23,920 --> 01:32:26,920
Speaker 1: Ireland at this moment moment was probably close to nine

1745
01:32:26,960 --> 01:32:29,599
Speaker 1: million people. You know, you're talking the eighteen forties were

1746
01:32:29,600 --> 01:32:31,720
Speaker 1: not as good at censuses and stuff as we have

1747
01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:34,880
Speaker 1: probably around nine million people, little bit less. Most of

1748
01:32:34,920 --> 01:32:37,600
Speaker 1: these people are Catholic. Three million of them are the

1749
01:32:37,720 --> 01:32:39,519
Speaker 1: kind of peasants that we've spent a lot of this

1750
01:32:39,560 --> 01:32:42,479
Speaker 1: episode talking about peaking out a precarious living on the

1751
01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:47,519
Speaker 1: land as renters utterly dependent upon the continued productivity of

1752
01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:51,920
Speaker 1: the potato for their caloric needs. Um, and that is

1753
01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:54,360
Speaker 1: the stage being set for what's going to happen next,

1754
01:32:54,439 --> 01:32:56,600
Speaker 1: which is not gonna be nice, but prop you know

1755
01:32:56,640 --> 01:33:00,880
Speaker 1: what is gonna be nice These plugables you're plug doubles. Yeah,

1756
01:33:00,880 --> 01:33:04,040
Speaker 1: you're cloud very nice. Absolutely yeah man. Prop hip hop

1757
01:33:04,720 --> 01:33:10,960
Speaker 1: um propp uh. That's all the socials and the website. Um,

1758
01:33:11,000 --> 01:33:15,160
Speaker 1: there's the hood politics pod uh. Still popping and cracking

1759
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:19,479
Speaker 1: and getting some Sophie's helping me get some doper not doper,

1760
01:33:19,560 --> 01:33:23,479
Speaker 1: but some dope guests and such. You know, we're having

1761
01:33:23,560 --> 01:33:26,599
Speaker 1: good time over there. Yeah yeah, prop hip hop, prop

1762
01:33:26,720 --> 01:33:31,080
Speaker 1: hip hop. Check it out, check out you know something

1763
01:33:31,120 --> 01:33:37,560
Speaker 1: else to check out? Good things? Read a book or um,

1764
01:33:37,600 --> 01:33:40,559
Speaker 1: I don't know, find an English person and be like

1765
01:33:40,680 --> 01:33:43,280
Speaker 1: what the funk? Man, huh what the fuck? Yeah look

1766
01:33:43,280 --> 01:33:46,400
Speaker 1: at being this person and be like thanks, yeah, yeah,

1767
01:33:46,479 --> 01:33:49,559
Speaker 1: go to an English bar and just like frown, just

1768
01:33:49,600 --> 01:33:51,800
Speaker 1: sit in the corner and like mean muther, just mean

1769
01:33:51,880 --> 01:33:54,600
Speaker 1: mug um and be like what for do it? O'Connell

1770
01:33:55,520 --> 01:33:59,240
Speaker 1: got an alister, which I learned is like almost like

1771
01:33:59,320 --> 01:34:03,679
Speaker 1: the Irish like maga, Yeah, yeah, I forgot an ollister.

1772
01:34:04,280 --> 01:34:06,759
Speaker 1: There you go. To me, it is a little bit Maggie.

1773
01:34:08,040 --> 01:34:10,479
Speaker 1: You know, it sounded cool to me because I don't

1774
01:34:10,479 --> 01:34:12,760
Speaker 1: know what allister means. Anyway, it was you know, it's

1775
01:34:12,760 --> 01:34:16,519
Speaker 1: that it's that Northern Irish Protestant stronghold that's kind of

1776
01:34:16,560 --> 01:34:20,479
Speaker 1: formed as a colony. Basically, you know, good stuff, good stuff,

1777
01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:22,960
Speaker 1: So go colonize England. You know that's what you actually

1778
01:34:23,280 --> 01:34:28,559
Speaker 1: really everybody, everybody colonized England. Take, suck them up.