Speaker 1: Nice to meet you.
Speaker 2: Very nice to meet you. I'm a pretty big fan. So, oh,
Speaker 2: thank you. You're like the holy Grail of women entrepreneurs.
Speaker 1: Oh well, I appreciate that. Thank you so much. So
Speaker 1: I found you on social media. And you do sort
Speaker 1: of like these therapy snippets on relationships in the car
Speaker 1: and you have a practice, you have patients. I do.
Speaker 2: I have clients.
Speaker 3: I'm a relationship coach and I've been running my practice
Speaker 3: now for about four years. So it's been a real
Speaker 3: blessing and a real joy. I was in academia before that.
Speaker 3: I was the director of a clinical psychology program at
Speaker 3: a university, and so I did that for a number
Speaker 3: of years and taught in psychology.
Speaker 1: Okay, so my question is one of the most intellectual
Speaker 1: reasons I think that a person shouldn't have sex too early,
Speaker 1: which we've all done, is because it could make you
Speaker 1: so deeply insecure to blame. Like, let's say that you
Speaker 1: have this thing right here, like, Okay, I've been out
Speaker 1: with someone and on the first night, we're gonna do this,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna do that, and oh my god, you're
Speaker 1: this and you're that, and like I'm into it and
Speaker 1: I'm believing it. At the same time, I'm an investigative
Speaker 1: reporter in my own mind, not trusting any of it.
Speaker 1: I don't believe it. There's no way that you don't.
Speaker 1: You feel as way just with me, and you didn't
Speaker 1: feel as way with someone two nights ago. And it
Speaker 1: could be possible we have felt ways that we've never
Speaker 1: felt before, but it could so. Now, if you sleep
Speaker 1: with someone and they don't call you or interact or
Speaker 1: text in the way that you want them to, you're
Speaker 1: blaming it on the sex you don't and it might
Speaker 1: not be the sex they might I've found that the
Speaker 1: guy that I don't have sex with does this also,
Speaker 1: But if I had sex, I'd be blaming all of
Speaker 1: it on sex. So it's like a recipe. You added cilantro,
Speaker 1: you added garlic, you added all these things. You don't
Speaker 1: know what it was, don't know what the allergen was
Speaker 1: because you did all the things. So the only way
Speaker 1: to find out what you're really allergic to or what
Speaker 1: the problem is is like sort of they call it
Speaker 1: like an elimination diet, you know what I mean, or
Speaker 1: or elimination add on yes, or add one ingredient at
Speaker 1: a time, and that's why it's the same thing as
Speaker 1: making your own money. I'm not saying you have to
Speaker 1: make your own money in life or use it. It
Speaker 1: just sets you up for success not having sex. It's
Speaker 1: not slut shaming. It's saying, like, we want to be
Speaker 1: able to assign what ingredients are the problem, and you
Speaker 1: need to go slow so you can see what's going
Speaker 1: on with a new person.
Speaker 2: I agree totally.
Speaker 3: And there's hormonal things that happen to both male and
Speaker 3: female that are very different after sex happens. So men
Speaker 3: really thrive in the dating phase on vasipressin, which is
Speaker 3: like the protector and provider hormone, which makes them want
Speaker 3: to feel like they're protective over you, like you're theirs,
Speaker 3: you know. It makes them want to claim you, It
Speaker 3: makes them want to provide for you, do things for you.
Speaker 3: And as you are bonding, macipressing will increase. Once you
Speaker 3: have sex with them, it massively decreases.
Speaker 2: Wow, And so.
Speaker 3: Then that's where they get the I don't know how
Speaker 3: like if we can say this on the podcast, but
Speaker 3: the like post nut clarity right that that guys talk about.
Speaker 1: Wait say it again, the post nut.
Speaker 3: Nut clarity right, Well, after they have sex and then
Speaker 3: they're like, oh my gosh, I don't really like this shick,
Speaker 3: Like I just wanted to have sex with her, and
Speaker 3: I couldn't tell the difference. And a lot of men
Speaker 3: can't tell the difference if they really just want to
Speaker 3: have sex with a woman or if they really like them.
Speaker 2: So what I tell?
Speaker 1: And then what does oral sex count for that for
Speaker 1: a man or it's really being inside someone.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure exactly. I know that the studies have
Speaker 3: really focused on you know, actual traditional sex, okay, additional
Speaker 3: sex and vacipressing levels. But we see those levels drop
Speaker 3: and they get this all of a sudden that can
Speaker 3: make that strong instinct that I want to claim this person,
Speaker 3: like really pull back, and all of a sudden they're like.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, what did I do? Like I don't
Speaker 2: well these feelings.
Speaker 1: Okay, but that combined a woman who gets the oxytocin
Speaker 1: and more cling because they have let someone literally inside
Speaker 1: of them. It's different being inside of someone and someone
Speaker 1: being inside of you you want like your The combination
Speaker 1: is lethal.
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, And I was just about to say that
Speaker 3: that women's oxytocin, which is their bonding hormone actually increases
Speaker 3: after sex.
Speaker 2: So we have this disparity.
Speaker 3: Right between how women and men are handling post sex
Speaker 3: clarity and wants and needs, And so I always tell
Speaker 3: women and they don't necessarily love it, but I'm like,
Speaker 3: hold off, you know, hold off as long as you can,
Speaker 3: because essentially what has to happen is the guy is
Speaker 3: going to go Okay, I didn't get it on the
Speaker 3: first date. Do I really want to see her for
Speaker 3: a second date? Okay, I see her for a second date.
Speaker 3: I still didn't get it. Do I like her enough
Speaker 3: to want to see her for a third date?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 3: I still didn't get it. Do I like her enough
Speaker 3: to want to see her for a fourth date? And
Speaker 3: they have to keep them actually asking themselves interesting, this
Speaker 3: somebody that I want to connect with is our emotional
Speaker 3: and personality connection enough to sustain me.
Speaker 2: For a while.
Speaker 1: And that's a man's logic, but a women's in security.
Speaker 1: And now let's get to the real thing, because a
Speaker 1: lot of moms are on here, a lot of women,
Speaker 1: a lot of women dating in their forties and fifties,
Speaker 1: but a lot of moms. So we're doing two things
Speaker 1: at the same time. We are trying to tell our
Speaker 1: daughters what this is the only thing they want and
Speaker 1: hold off. But we have to get granular about it
Speaker 1: because we know that as a fifty four year old woman,
Speaker 1: I have been out with men, really liked them. They've
Speaker 1: been powerhouse ball or men. It's felt good. And there
Speaker 1: have been times when it's not that I did something
Speaker 1: I didn't want to do. It feels good. Who cares
Speaker 1: where I might have gone further with someone? Then I
Speaker 1: eat intellectually wanted to more for them, to sort of
Speaker 1: like make them feel good and check the box for them.
Speaker 1: And now men are manipulative just like women are, and
Speaker 1: so our daughters. How are we if we ourselves have
Speaker 1: done things that we don't want to do, or maybe
Speaker 1: not done what we wouldn't want to do, we wanted
Speaker 1: to do it, but regret it because we didn't just
Speaker 1: say no, I'm not in my mind to me, meaning
Speaker 1: I'm strong, I can tell a man no. It's me
Speaker 1: to me And the weirdness of how to tell a
Speaker 1: man no? So how are you telling us to a
Speaker 1: tell our daughters exactly how to say no? So it works?
Speaker 1: So it lands with an adolescent boy who has blue
Speaker 1: balls and then how are you telling us to tell
Speaker 1: ourselves that it as middle aged women, as thirty year old,
Speaker 1: as twenty year old, all of it, all the things.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So it just brings to mind the fact that I
Speaker 3: have a fourteen year old daughter, say fifteen now, right,
Speaker 3: they're going to be getting into that stage where this
Speaker 3: is a real sexual contact is a real possibility in
Speaker 3: the next few years, right, I will do you.
Speaker 2: I am forty three.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're younger, so great, But okay, so let's
Speaker 1: go through. Give yourself the advice and give the child
Speaker 1: the advice. But really how to land it? Not just
Speaker 1: the concept of like, wait, okay, great, but how exactly.
Speaker 3: Well, First of all, I think when I was that age,
Speaker 3: if we're talking about like teenagers, I didn't really understand
Speaker 3: all the consequences of sex. I mean, an unplanned pregnancy
Speaker 3: is not the worst thing that can come out of
Speaker 3: having sex. I mean diseases that can literally kill you
Speaker 3: can come as a result of having sex, and you
Speaker 3: can't necessarily tell who has those diseases and who to
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 1: I've never told that to my daughter. So that's the
Speaker 1: first thing I have literally never I've told.
Speaker 3: My and the statistics are one in five people have herpes,
Speaker 3: and so you know, you can't necessarily tell that they
Speaker 3: have it. They can live with it for years without
Speaker 3: even themselves knowing that they have.
Speaker 1: My daughter would react to that very much, yes.
Speaker 2: Very strongly. So I believe mine would too.
Speaker 3: And I've had that conversation and I saw it on
Speaker 3: her face, so I believe that she didn't have that reaction.
Speaker 3: I think for middle aged women we're a little bit
Speaker 3: sort of more over the fear of sexually transmitted diseases
Speaker 3: and that kind of stuff, like we're like, oh, we
Speaker 3: can protect ourselves or whatever. But I think you have
Speaker 3: to realize that they're significant.
Speaker 1: We don't think about it that much. We really don't.
Speaker 1: You're right, it's not discussed. We don't think about it.
Speaker 1: And because we're a certain age where you're not going
Speaker 1: to get pregnant, you really don't think about it. To
Speaker 1: your point, we really don't think about it. Like it's
Speaker 1: weird for a woman and man in their fifties to
Speaker 1: be like, do you have a condom? It's like it's
Speaker 1: like you're in college again. It's a very interesting thing. Yes,
Speaker 1: it is a very interesting thing. But believe it or not,
Speaker 1: I have a lot of clients that come to me
Speaker 1: in their forties and fifties and say, I've never had
Speaker 1: an STD in my life, but I started dating. You know,
Speaker 1: I didn't even think about us because they're also in
Speaker 1: their free spirit phase where they'll do.
Speaker 2: Or post of verse.
Speaker 3: You know, they're selling their wild oats. Yeah, you're trying
Speaker 3: to find themselves and boom they get hit with this
Speaker 3: STD and then they're like, oh my gosh, like what
Speaker 3: do I do? And sometimes it's you know, one of
Speaker 3: the STDs that just doesn't you know, it doesn't go well.
Speaker 1: Now, guess what my friend did tell a guy that
Speaker 1: he has to be tested before they're going to have sex.
Speaker 1: And you know what, I've had people say that they
Speaker 1: want a personality test taken or just like anecdotally the
Speaker 1: what we talked about with an attachment test. But I
Speaker 1: think that's a very not for a teen, but for
Speaker 1: a woman our age my age, George, that's an empowered
Speaker 1: growing thing and a ball or move to say to
Speaker 1: a man, I want to get to know you emotionally
Speaker 1: in addition to intimately, but I would need you to
Speaker 1: take a test, And I think they would think that
Speaker 1: was fucking sexy as fuck for a woman to say
Speaker 1: that to them.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that you know your needs and
Speaker 3: your wants are valid, whatever those things are for me personally,
Speaker 3: what I did when I met my husband, I had
Speaker 3: just gone through a big healing journey.
Speaker 2: I had been single for over a year.
Speaker 3: I had, you know, done all the stuff to work
Speaker 3: on my attachment healing, and I was ready to put
Speaker 3: myself on the dating market. I dated a couple of
Speaker 3: people that you know, it just didn't take off. I
Speaker 3: wasn't very interested. And then I met him and I
Speaker 3: did know after a couple of dates, like, wow, I
Speaker 3: really have something special, some special feelings for this guy.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: So basically just laid it on the table, and that
Speaker 3: way I knew I would hold myself accountable. I said,
Speaker 3: I'm not going to have sex with you until we're
Speaker 3: in a committed relationship. I'm not doing it like until
Speaker 3: i'm yours and yours you know, there's exclusivity in this
Speaker 3: ERAa and.
Speaker 1: The way that's a confident thing to say too. That's
Speaker 1: a confident thing to say too. I don't have sex
Speaker 1: unless'm going to I'm in a relationship. You're allowed to
Speaker 1: have that as your code. We want to get into
Speaker 1: the kids and what we're going to say to them
Speaker 1: next too. But that's a code that because the gray
Speaker 1: is where you get confused. If you have like a code,
Speaker 1: that's it, that's that's it. So I like that as
Speaker 1: a code, and that's my new code.
Speaker 2: I just didn't want him to worry.
Speaker 3: I just didn't want myself to worry about him going
Speaker 3: in sleeping with other people if I was sleeping with.
Speaker 1: Him, or you don't want to feel like someone's not
Speaker 1: going to call you to the point of what I
Speaker 1: said before, like I'm you know, unless you're in that
Speaker 1: sex and city Samantha phase which I don't go through,
Speaker 1: which some women are. You want to go out and
Speaker 1: get laid, fine, then someone has to use a condom
Speaker 1: or they have to get tested. You're allowed to be
Speaker 1: in a sexual relationship. But for me, you are correct.
Speaker 1: I'm not having sex with someone unless I'm going to
Speaker 1: commit a relationship. It's extremely black and white. But I
Speaker 1: don't think I've ever said it like that, and I
Speaker 1: think that's I've said. I want my emotions to catch
Speaker 1: up with my physicality, but it's not quite as strong
Speaker 1: as what were you just said.
Speaker 3: Right, and then I also, you know, there's some confidence there.
Speaker 3: There's some confidence there that I'm saying it's compatible. You know,
Speaker 3: this is going to be going somewhere. There's a level
Speaker 3: of respect for each other that has been developed. There's
Speaker 3: a level of bay and it's been able to show
Speaker 3: that they are capable of giving you what you need
Speaker 3: outside of having a sexual relationship.
Speaker 1: No, yes, but I think there's a confidence. I think
Speaker 1: you could get two things accomplished. I think number one,
Speaker 1: there's a confidence there with both people. But I think
Speaker 1: a woman saying to a man who's at the level
Speaker 1: that like is a catch that she thinks is a catch,
Speaker 1: saying to him that makes him think she's so much
Speaker 1: more of a catch, Like that's just such a strong,
Speaker 1: confident thing to say. So I think you get more
Speaker 1: than one thing accomplished. It's my new thing.
Speaker 2: I do too.
Speaker 3: And then I think it weeds out the bad guys
Speaker 3: that are just like Harry and get laid right, so
Speaker 3: you know they're going to weed themselves out. And I
Speaker 3: would say, go see you, you know, don't let the
Speaker 3: door hit you on the way out. And I think
Speaker 3: also too, just being able to know that what does happen.
Speaker 3: There's a level of comfort there that has already been established.
Speaker 3: It felt really good, It felt really safe, exactly, it
Speaker 3: felt so safe. And I think people underestimate the psychological
Speaker 3: vulnerabilities and the psychological and emotional impacts of having sex
Speaker 3: with somebody that then turns around and you know, abandons
Speaker 3: you or betrays you or whatnot because you didn't establish
Speaker 3: a connection and a level of trust. And what I
Speaker 3: tell people is, listen, you're in charge of your own body.
Speaker 3: Go do whatever it is you.
Speaker 2: Want to do.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to shame you. I'm not going to
Speaker 3: try to, you know, tell you that you should or
Speaker 3: shouldn't do something. I'm just trying to hear to tell
Speaker 3: you the risks and what could actually benefit you by
Speaker 3: delaying sex is by keeping around a guy that is
Speaker 3: becoming more confident that he wants to be with you
Speaker 3: even in absence of that thing, which for a man
Speaker 3: is a pretty big like revelation that they can have.
Speaker 1: No And I yes, and I think for my daughter,
Speaker 1: because that's as important as what we're saying, more is
Speaker 1: more important. I would say what you said about diseases
Speaker 1: and what I mean, I would also talk about what
Speaker 1: men are like and that also, you don't they're going
Speaker 1: to react to it's hard for you to understand. But
Speaker 1: if you do it, they're going to respect you have
Speaker 1: a less likely chance of them liking you after sadly,
Speaker 1: and and they and they get what they want. And
Speaker 1: I would also say that a child can also should
Speaker 1: not be having sex, but you can't. It's like saying
Speaker 1: they shouldn't be drinking. We can't control of that. Should
Speaker 1: be saying I won't do this unless I'm in They
Speaker 1: can say it too, unless I have a boyfriend. But
Speaker 1: then also, uh, they have to use a condom. It's
Speaker 1: gonna it's harder for them. And that's why we have
Speaker 1: wanted pregnancy these n STDs. But I have to make
Speaker 1: sure that that's landed. But it's also like saying I
Speaker 1: know a lot of people. I heard recently j Loo
Speaker 1: saying that she never drank even though she launched a
Speaker 1: liquor brand, but then she I don't think she markets
Speaker 1: that anymore, but that she never drank because her mom
Speaker 1: just said to her that it was bad and her reasons.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, look, it takes a strong person to
Speaker 1: not drink and to say it with confidence, but you
Speaker 1: can do it, and that's the same thing as sex.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think so she give you more confidence, right,
Speaker 3: because everybody else around you is probably gonna be giving in.
Speaker 3: And so they're there is you know, a nature of
Speaker 3: men that they want the special one, right, they want
Speaker 3: the gazelle, they want the one with the high standards.
Speaker 3: And I think men inherently know if you're sleeping with
Speaker 3: them on the first or second date. Inherently they're like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm not the only one you've done this with no
Speaker 3: hard telling me I'm special and that you don't usually
Speaker 3: do this.
Speaker 2: But they're not buying it, right, No, No.
Speaker 1: And then also the hard thing we're dealing with too,
Speaker 1: is that, like I'm in my mind, we're so naive
Speaker 1: and we have so many blind spots. As parents, I,
Speaker 1: in my mind, have been most focused on the substances,
Speaker 1: the drinking, the possibility of drugs arising. I have literally
Speaker 1: not been thinking about the sex at all. I have
Speaker 1: not been thinking I have a fifth Yeah, I'm good
Speaker 1: like so to Yeah, so homework for you parents. We're
Speaker 1: all naive, we all think it's never gonna happen to us,
Speaker 1: and it's not our kid. So I would give you
Speaker 1: guys the homework to now go deal with both. It
Speaker 1: could be separately, but deal with both things like deal
Speaker 1: with the sex of it and the drugs of it
Speaker 1: and the alcohol of it, because they're both in existent.
Speaker 1: Like we were all kids.
Speaker 3: I think we take the wrong approach when we're just like,
Speaker 3: don't do it. That's it exactly right, Like we're not
Speaker 3: talking about this. I think you need to make your
Speaker 3: child feel comfortable enough with you to be able to
Speaker 3: talk about it, because if they do eventually get themselves
Speaker 3: into a bad situation, you want them to be able
Speaker 3: to come to you and tell you so you can
Speaker 3: help them problem solve that and work that out and
Speaker 3: be okay emotionally when if and if that does happen.
Speaker 1: This is what's happening tonight. This is my night, is
Speaker 1: my evening, is my homework. Awesome. You were amazing. I'm
Speaker 1: so I would love to have you on again. It
Speaker 1: was really excellent.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. I enjoyed chatting with excellent. Love
Speaker 3: your TikTok videos. I love how you just you know
Speaker 3: what you just say. Whatever it is like is really
Speaker 3: you're really passionate about and authenticity is so regulating to
Speaker 3: the nervous system. And I find you incredibly authentic. And
Speaker 3: I think that's why I enjoy your TikTok, because oh
Speaker 3: I appreciate it, just like you know what, Chase screwed
Speaker 3: me over today and I'm gonna and I'm gonna freaking
Speaker 3: talk about this.
Speaker 1: They certainly did, and many people as well. Awesome, Thank
Speaker 1: you so much.
Speaker 2: You're so welcome, Bethany. Thank you so much for inviting me.
Speaker 3: It was a of course, have a great day you too,
Speaker 3: Thank you, good Bye.