1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: today's best minds and hell is watching MTG preside over 4 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 1: the house. We have a fascinating show today. Brian Stelter 5 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: joins us to talk about the media. Then we will 6 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: talk to Ann Albert and Deb mcclutchy, the directors of 7 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: The Martha Mitchell Effect, about the important movie they just 8 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: made and why Martha Mitchell's story matters. But first we 9 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: have the recounts Slade Sommer to talk about what we 10 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 1: just saw during Biden's State of the Union address. Welcome 11 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: to Fast Politics for a special post State of the Union, 12 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: Fast Politics with my friend and yours Slade. Hey, what's 13 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: going on. Well, we just watched the Biden speech. It 14 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: was about an hour and a half. Yeah, well you 15 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: know by the time, yeah, probably about an hour fifteen. Definitely, 16 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: he read it very fast, which was a long speech. 17 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: Before he started, we heard a television pendence saying it 18 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:15,759 Speaker 1: was going to be a long speech, but he sort 19 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: of tried to catch up. I don't know. I thought 20 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: that was a very good speech. And again, you know, 21 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: I'm a partisan, I'm on the opinion side. So I 22 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: you know, I am predisposed to want to like a 23 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: Biden's speech, but it was a really well crafted speech. 24 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: I thought. Yeah, I mean, the best thing I will 25 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: say about it is that he baited Republicans incredibly well tonight. 26 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 1: Incredibly he got them on the record saying social Security 27 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 1: and Medicare is a great thing and they will never 28 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: touch it. Right. That was amazing, you know, he got 29 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: them on the record on that that ceiling he got that. 30 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: You know, he literally went there and said, I'm going 31 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: to start by saying I am the king of bipartisan 32 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: and ship and then and then he took that turn 33 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: with the I'll see you at the groundbreaking talking about 34 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: the infrastructure, and then it was all bets are off. 35 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: He was like, check your facts, Come at me, bitch. 36 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: He really went hard into bating them, and by the 37 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:19,239 Speaker 1: end you had Marjorie Taylor Green, you know, at the 38 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: sideline over of the kids soccer game, like screaming at 39 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: the referee, you know, in some outrageous evil layer coat. 40 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: It was incredible. Yeah, no, I mean, and and the 41 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: stuff that he was bringing up was you know, watching 42 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: McCarthy refused to clap for giving teachers a raise. I mean, 43 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: these are hardly controversial ideas, right raises for teachers. I 44 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: mean that's the kind of thing that you know. I mean, 45 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: it's like should we kill puppies or not kill puppies? 46 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 1: Let's not kill puppies. I mean, so I do think 47 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: ultimately it did make McCarthy. I mean, when he's sitting there, 48 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: you know, he's saying that he's not against monopoly. He 49 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: got Republicans even to boo non competes where a burger 50 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: flipper can go across the street to a different burger restaurant, 51 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: and that got booed. I like, just genuinely like you 52 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: could sit some out, you know, that's the thing about politics, 53 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: and three just like sit them out. Let let some 54 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 1: of these lines go over like a lead balloon. And 55 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: not to bring balloons into this. Republicans would be better 56 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: served by just ignoring the guy every once in a while, 57 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: you know, I will say just one quick thing though. 58 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: My favorite part of the speech was when he went 59 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: into like Joe Biden's travel tips and he was like, 60 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: resorts that are resorts, and I like to that for 61 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: a second, then two back in and I was like, 62 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: is this guy talking about like sandals, What's what's going 63 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: on there? I wasn't following that they were. I mean, 64 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: it was a long speech. Let's let's call a spade 65 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: a spade here, But yes, there were. I mean, he 66 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: definitely there was a lot of non controversial stuff that 67 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: he got Republicans to be completely against, which I thought 68 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: was interesting. You heard Marjorie Taylor Green and Lauren Boebert 69 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: at various points screaming about the border. When he brought 70 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,799 Speaker 1: up fent and all, I don't know. I mean, again, 71 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: this is this whole idea that all this fent and 72 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: all is coming through the border, which you know, there's 73 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: certainly is fent and all coming into this country, but 74 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 1: a lot of it is coming from China. I definitely 75 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: think Republicans ended up kind of being caught flat footed 76 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: because we're used to these very I mean, Biden's speeches 77 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: have been good, but I'm not sure that I think 78 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: this was one of Biden's best speeches. Yeah, I think 79 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: it was good. I think the fact that he kind 80 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: of blew through the applauses with just continuing the speech 81 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: was very smart, especially in the first half hour or so. 82 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 1: You know, he set the tone that he wanted to, 83 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: like tell you what's going on on I'm going to 84 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: get through it, especially at a time when a lot 85 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: of people in the media business are saying, like, can 86 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: we get back to the days where you just send 87 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 1: an email and like, you know, you don't need any 88 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: of this propit circumstances, you know, but look, there were 89 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: a couple of significant things there that you know, we 90 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: we are focusing on at the recount with Like, you know, 91 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: I thought the the reiteration for a tax on billionaires 92 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 1: was was really important, you know. I thought the you know, 93 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: reiteration of assault weapons band was really important. Did you 94 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 1: see McCarthy's face when Biden brought up the billionaire attacks? 95 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, just pained, like I'm gonna get some calls tomorrow. Yes, 96 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: I think, you know, speaking of McCarthy, Look, I'm not 97 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: a guy who you know, if anyone's listening to this 98 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: podcast and you're like, well, these guys are talking a 99 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: lot about optics. Look, I'm not at all an optics guy. 100 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: But at the same time, optics matter. And like Kevin 101 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: McCarthy sitting behind Biden's falling asleep for half of it, 102 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 1: rolling his eyes for a quarter of it and being 103 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: a you know, perturbed, I don't know rich guy for 104 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: the other quarter of it, like, I think he underestimated 105 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: how tough it is to sit in a chair behind 106 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 1: the President of the United States for an hour and 107 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: a half talking about the State of the Union. I 108 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: think he's gonna get some pretty negative reviews tomorrow. Well. 109 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: I also think that you could see him sort of 110 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: not quite knowing what to do. And if we've seen 111 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: one thing and McCarthy since his fifteen tries at the speakership, 112 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: it's that he doesn't really know what to do, and 113 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: so you find him a lot of times like I mean, 114 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,359 Speaker 1: I actually, I mean, I think McCarthy is is not 115 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: a great human but I appreciate the fact that he 116 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: is like I'll just wing it and then everything turns 117 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: out to be a disaster. Like that I appreciate because 118 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: I'm like, I get that, man, I get being someone 119 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: who's like I can just figure this out on the 120 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: fly and then having everything fall apart. But I think 121 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: that's what happened tonight. Yeah, it's just funny, like McCarthy 122 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: just gets hung out to dry I from his caucus 123 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: like an hour before the State of the Union told 124 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: Monty Raju on CNN, like we're gonna act with decorum, 125 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: We're gonna act with you know, like everything he says 126 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: is just undercut by the clowns of it all. I 127 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: saw a ton of people on Twitter calling Marjorie Taylor 128 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: Green Corurella Deville, Like, what an insult to Corrella Deville? Well, 129 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: that whole that by that, like, you know, not even 130 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: just the amazing Cruella movie, which I really stand pretty hard, 131 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: but you know, just in general, like when Close said, 132 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: you know, Emma Stone, these are these are women of character. 133 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: These are real evil villains. I don't want to hear 134 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: that shit about Marjorie Taylor Great. Well, Marjorie Taylor Green, 135 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: I mean, continues to be sort of just out of 136 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: her depth. I'm just sort of impressed that she doesn't 137 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: seem to be embarrassed by any of this behavior. You know, 138 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: she tried today to bring a balloon. I don't know 139 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: what she was doing with that balloon. It was tatroll 140 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: Biden for not having shot down the balloon sooner, even 141 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: though the military told him that this was the time 142 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: to shoot down the balloon. I don't know. I mean that, 143 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: you know, there's so many of these things we're seeing 144 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: in this modern day partisanship where Republicans just will not 145 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't matter how Biden does it, it's 146 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: wrong to them. Yeah, And you know, that brings up 147 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: a good question. We actually had this debate during the speech, 148 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: you know, in the recount newsroom tonight we're all in 149 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: the office. One of my producers, Steve said like, you know, 150 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: they hate this guy, and I was like, I don't know. 151 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: I find a little bit of it, like w W 152 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: E performative kind of stuff. I don't know the answer 153 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: to that, Like, I don't know if he's right or 154 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: IM writer's somewhere in the middle. Is this specific Republican 155 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: party who was in that room tonight, the people who 156 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: were heckling, the people who were you know, Joe Wilson 157 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: NG channeling their inner Joe Wilson, you know, did they 158 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: mean it or they trying to get airtime here. I 159 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 1: don't know the answer to that question, but it just 160 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's either silly or crazy or whatever. 161 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: When I think it depends on who it is Biden 162 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: comes from, and I think I think he did a 163 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: pretty good job of articulating this. You know, he said, 164 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 1: I'm like the old I've been in this institution longer 165 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: than all of you, which is true. And one of 166 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: the things that I think, you know, he had, there's 167 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: a folksiness to like being a member of Congress and 168 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: the Senate that has been there for a long time, 169 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: and I think like he is much more he hearkens 170 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: back to those days of like, you know, the days 171 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: of conservative justices being friends with liberal justices, and I 172 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: think that actually, ultimately, right now is is actually really good. Yeah, 173 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 1: speaking of juicy, they left Bryan and Ken Anthony Kennedy 174 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: back in. All of a sudden, they walked in, you know, 175 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: the just I think five of them, the justices were there, 176 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: and then Brier and Anthony Kennedy were right behind him, 177 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: and I was like, what you're wait, this is live right? Uh, 178 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: you know, I thought I was going crazy there for 179 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 1: a second. I mean, the Supreme Court is just such 180 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: a like fraud institution right now. I spend so much 181 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: time talking to people on this podcast about the many 182 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: ways in which the Supreme Court is really failing this country. 183 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: So in some ways, having these older guys back there, 184 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: you know, who were who were part of the Supreme 185 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: Court when it was less terrible is kind of a 186 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: nice recall. Absolutely, I don't know, you know, overall, I 187 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: can't tell whether or not I love this or I 188 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: hate this. With like a live a live room, not 189 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,319 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, I think I think I hate that altogether. 190 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: But you know, in terms of in terms of what 191 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: happened tonight, you know, a live room where you know 192 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,559 Speaker 1: it's like one part deaf comedy jam and one part 193 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: Prime Minister's Questions or whatever. Right, you know, part of 194 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: me likes it. Part of me thinks that if you're 195 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: gonna go pomp and circumstance, if you're going to go spectacle, 196 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: you might as well go all in. You know. I 197 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: think it's different when when the Joe Wilson you Lie 198 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: Obama joint session moment happened in that I feel like 199 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,959 Speaker 1: that was one guy being a jackass. This I feel 200 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 1: like modern politics are ridiculous. We are in an absurd 201 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: period of politics. I don't think it's a game. I 202 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: don't think it's ESPN, I don't think it's Sports Center 203 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. But at the same time, like 204 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: I look at what happens in the UK and while 205 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,199 Speaker 1: they're also a dumpster fire, like I don't know, I 206 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: kind of respect it, like you got something to say, 207 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: you say it. Who's the fucking president? Who cares? You know? Like, 208 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 1: what's what's mix it up a little bit? I don't know, controversial. 209 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: They're looking pretty bad right now. I want to talk 210 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: to you about this idea, which I think is really 211 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: something we should be talking about, which is Jamal Bowman, 212 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 1: who's been on this podcast and know who I know 213 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 1: pretty I mean, I don't know him that one, but 214 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: I know him a little. Was yelling at Bernie Sanders. 215 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: You wrote the speech, You wrote the whole thing somewhat smart, tweeted. 216 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: Being a progressive former's hard work. You often end up 217 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: isolated and ostracized. Your candidates often lose, But what matters 218 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: is that your ideas and policies win the long fight. 219 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: This is a very different, more progressive Democratic Party than 220 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: it was ten years ago. Go, well, I agree with 221 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: most of that. You know, I think there were some 222 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: lines from Biden that were thrown in that we're definitely Biden, 223 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: you know, all the bipartisanship for the first that's not 224 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: getting everybody to stand up and applaud the police. I 225 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: don't necessarily matter that Bernie have done. You know, there 226 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: were a couple of moments there that I think, you know, 227 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: we're we're vintage Biden, you know, the old guy. I 228 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: will say. You know, Bernie is the exact type of 229 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: guy who I think doesn't mind that ostrazation, ostracization and 230 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: doesn't mind that solitude. And you know, if it could 231 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: be anybody who had a hand in moving this party 232 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: to the left, I think I think Bernie's the guy 233 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: to like take the you know, first they ignore you, 234 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: then they laugh at you. Then all of a sudden, 235 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 1: the president gives the State of the Union that has 236 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: all your ideas. You know, if that were the updated 237 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: version of that that cliche, you know, I think Bernie's 238 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: the right guy to do it, you know, much more 239 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: so than Elizabeth Warren, who you know is much more 240 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: of a folksy. But if you looked at Warren during 241 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: that speech, she was delighted. Oh absolutely. I'm not saying 242 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: anything negative about Elizabeth Warren. What I'm saying is like, yeah, no, no, 243 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: but I mean it does seem like that both of 244 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: them had a lot of their ideas reflected there in 245 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: a way that you wouldn't think yeah, and it's tough 246 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: tough to know Bernie's expressions because he was wearing the 247 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 1: mask tonight, which was nice. Yeah. I mean I also 248 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: think like it's always sort of tough to read Bernie. 249 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: But from what little I know of him, which is 250 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 1: that I did interview him for this podcast, he I 251 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: think he cares more about his ideas being adapted than 252 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: he does about the personal glory, though I don't know 253 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: him well in any strate of the imagination. But you know, 254 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: a lot of these progressive guys, and then I think 255 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: my grandfather was, like, you know, he was older than Bernie, 256 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: but he was that same Jewish, Jewish Brooklyn guy who 257 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: you know, really believed in these value you know, in 258 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: the sort of more socialist values. And I do think 259 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: those guys are like on a on a real mission 260 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: in a way. Yeah. I mean, look, everything you need 261 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: to know about Bernie's impact on the Democratic Party is 262 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: just look at Obama's first cabinet. You know, Obama, this 263 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: great reformer who every Republican called the biggest socialists to 264 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: ever exist in the United States, you know, those City 265 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: Group and you know, like his entire cabinet was like 266 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: recycled politicians and Wall Street guys. I'm not saying this 267 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: isn't a knock on Barack Obama. It's a sign of 268 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: the times. Look at Obama's first you know, even with 269 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: the makeup of the House and the Senate, like, look 270 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: at his first four years in office, was a very 271 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: very conservative brand of liberalism. And fast forward six seven 272 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: years whatever it was when Bernie started to run. Even 273 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: then it was still like wow, Bernie saying some stuff 274 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: that just is not going over well in America. You know, now, 275 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, we have ideas that are being 276 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: put out in the Democratic Party that are almost to 277 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: the left of Bernie Sanders. I think it's incredible that 278 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: that you bring this up and that you you know, 279 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: want to discuss this, because I think it's an incredible point. 280 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: I just think it, like, look at the Obama administration, 281 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: look at what Hillary was running on. The Democratic Party 282 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: is a fundamentally different party because of people like Bernie Sanders. 283 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: Not just Bernie Sanders, but people like Bernie Sanders. And 284 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: I think you see it reflected in in Joe Biden tonight. 285 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: So that's a good point by Jamal Bowman. Yeah, but 286 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: I do think ultimately it is this, we needed an 287 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: old white guy deliver a more progressive message. And that's why, 288 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: you know, and and that's why I think we're more likely. 289 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: And I hate to say this, and I'm very tired, 290 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: so maybe I'll regret this in the morning, but I 291 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: think that Republicans are more likely to have a female 292 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: president before Democrats. And it's like the Margaret Thatcher thing. 293 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: You know, Conservatives are able to deliver, you know, are 294 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: able to use to have diverse messengers to deliver the 295 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: conservative message because people are less scared. Absolutely, I agree 296 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: with that completely, and I know we're out of time. 297 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: Do just want to say one more thing, which is, 298 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: as much as we focus on the state of the Union, 299 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: as much as we focus on national politics, there's a 300 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: lot of stuff going on at the state level that 301 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: one of these days you and I should discuss Florida's 302 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: bringing out the permanent carry gun bill in their Senate. 303 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: You know, Nebraska is talking about this abortion bill that 304 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: rapists can become the sole guardian of a baby if 305 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 1: like rape is not proven. You know, there's just like 306 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: there's a lot of ship going on around the country 307 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: in various states. And if I can just leave any 308 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: of your viewers with anything today. It's like, yes, the 309 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: national stuff is so important. The state of the Union 310 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: is important to discuss and to get into those issues 311 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 1: and Medicare and social Security. But you know, let's let's also, 312 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 1: you know, keep focused on that local and state level. 313 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: Cops city down in Atlanta, look that up Google that, 314 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: you know, all these things that are going on around 315 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: the country. Let's keep our eye on that as well. Slade. 316 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: Thank you, please come back absolutely anytime. Love you guys. 317 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: Brian Stelter is a fellow at the Harvard Kennedy Center. 318 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to you, Fast Politics. Bryan Stelter, all right, thank you, 319 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: happy to be here. I'm really excited to have you. 320 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: I really really wanted to talk to you about. First 321 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 1: of all, what has your transition been like and what 322 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: are you doing now. I've been in hibernation for a while. 323 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 1: I guess you could tell because I was hiding for 324 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: a while. I was just you know, I was and 325 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: I am just like loving stay at home dad life. 326 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: Does that sound corny? That's true. I mean I think 327 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: like in my mind there's something about being able to 328 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: just sort of take a break that is like very luxurious. 329 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: I'm assuming it will never happen to me again in 330 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: my life. And and that's the advice I was given 331 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: by everybody who came out of the woodwork in August 332 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 1: and and told me, hey, this happened to me once, 333 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,239 Speaker 1: and you should just enjoy the time as long as 334 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: you possibly can. The timing was spectacular, you know. Look, 335 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: I was sad to see reliable sources canceled, but it 336 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: happened in the middle of August. My kids were about 337 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: to go to school, you know, going to like my 338 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: my daughter's in kindergarten now, So like all of a sudden, 339 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: I had this whole new life based around their school 340 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,880 Speaker 1: schedules and all of that. And it's really been a blast. 341 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: So I want to ask you, like you were so 342 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: out there are in the way that all of us 343 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: in the you know, in the punditry industrial complex are 344 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: out there? Does it? I mean, do you do you 345 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: miss it? Do you still consume news the same way? 346 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: Has it changed the way you are? You less depressed? 347 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: I mean, tell us everything, I less depressed. I don't 348 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 1: miss waking up to a Google News alert my name 349 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: full of trash lies and filth. You can't ever have 350 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: the Google News a learned I mean well here, I 351 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: mean here, I am admitting to to not only having it, 352 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 1: but checking it. You know, when I came in. I 353 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: don't miss having Fox on in the background and then 354 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: randomly seeing my face while I'm while I'm disparaged and 355 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: lied about, like, you know, I don't miss that, you 356 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 1: know what, you know what I do miss his booking guests. 357 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: That's what you do. The delicate dance of booking and 358 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,439 Speaker 1: getting folks to talk and then trying to get answers 359 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: out of them. That's an art and that's that's something 360 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: that was really fun. And I've started writing for various 361 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: outlets like The Atlantic, and I wrote a piece of 362 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 1: Boston Globes because I want to I want to start 363 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,439 Speaker 1: to u use those writing muscles because I want them 364 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: to atrophy, you know. Yeah, But it's been so fun 365 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: to experience the news differently. And I don't mean this 366 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: to say that like the news doesn't matter, that you shouldn't, 367 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: you know, soak in it every day, because I still 368 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,959 Speaker 1: do consume a lot of news. But it's different when 369 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: I don't feel the need to be a part of it, 370 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 1: if that makes any sense. No, it does, and that's 371 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: that actually is sort of the point of this question 372 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: is like, now you have this relationship where you're not 373 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: part of the news, you're not making the news. You know, 374 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: you're writing. But you know, one of the other things 375 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:35,120 Speaker 1: you did besides the television show was you had this 376 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: newsletter that was basically every single day, and that must 377 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: that must have been a huge, I mean just a 378 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: huge burden, because if you miss anything, you must feel 379 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: just terrible. Well, I I loved doing the newsletter because 380 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: I felt like I thus knew everything that was going 381 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: on on my beat. It was almost like a it 382 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: was motivation to make sure I comprehensively knew what was 383 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 1: happening everywhere, from from Netflix to Fox, you know. But 384 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: now now I actually I have more appreciation for people 385 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: to do it, and I find myself thinking there should 386 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: be more of those curators in the world. What what 387 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: I mean by that is, you know, Oliver Darcy now 388 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: does the Reliable Sources newsletter. I learned something from it 389 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: every night, and I wish there were more products like it, 390 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: and maybe they don't all have to be newsletters. That's 391 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: the kind of thing I've been thinking a lot about 392 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: is in this environment where we are overwhelmed by information, 393 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: information saturation, kinds of disinformation, and just garbagees out there. 394 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 1: Great editors, great curators, should be more valuable than ever. Yeah, 395 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: I mean I also I love a newsletter, and I 396 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: read Oliver's newsletter, but I also read you know, I 397 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 1: was a regular reader if you're a newsletter, and I 398 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: read playbook and I read them before, and and I 399 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: do think there's actually a place for more newsletters, Believe 400 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: it or not. It's not so much that I want 401 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: more hot takes, though I'm okay with that, but more 402 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: just that I want more curation. And again, like that 403 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: is the thing we see that Ellen Musk struggles with 404 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: and all, I mean, the rise of Twitter was because 405 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: it provided and curated forum, right, I mean, at least 406 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: for readers like us. Yes, I always thought in the 407 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: best days of Twitter, I was able to tune my antenna, 408 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: you know, left and right and in always different ways 409 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: in order to hear the most interesting people in the world. 410 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: And it took some work to you know, you put 411 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 1: some work into your Twitter feed, but you would get 412 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: out this great output. And that's become harder now in 413 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: the Elon Musk era. Although I do think It's important 414 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: to note that, you know, the the great dire predictions 415 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 1: of the site collapsing into itself have not only not 416 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 1: come to pass, they don't even come close. There's definitely 417 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 1: glitches on Twitter these days, but we used to have 418 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: the air of the fail whale, but other than Twitter, 419 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,479 Speaker 1: so to the extent that Twitter is not quite as 420 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: useful as it used to be. And to these there 421 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: should be more options like Twitter, there should be more 422 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: ways to get that curation. That's something I definitely noticed 423 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 1: more now that I'm not maybe I'm sitting outside the 424 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: lazy river. Before I was in the lazy river. But 425 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: that's a bad metaphor because it sounds lazy and slow. 426 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: That's like, I'll have to work on that one. Do 427 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: you think, though, I mean, Drudge is another method of curation. 428 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: It's kind of right leaning though anti Trump that is 429 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: another curation site. I mean, right, ultimately, that's true. That's 430 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: that's a good point. That's that's an interesting model. And 431 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: one of the great gifts of the last few months 432 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,679 Speaker 1: has been, you know, talking to folks, having lunches and 433 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,479 Speaker 1: meetings and hearing how other people consume the news, and 434 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: you know, thinking about this and that's what I've heard 435 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 1: come up again again and again. Is you know that 436 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: the feeling that, oh yeah, there's there's there's not a 437 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: lot of places or sites like Drudge. You might imagine 438 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: that like CEOs and big wigs and you know, all 439 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: those folks have you know, access to a better version 440 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 1: of this social or antisocial world. They don't. They're they're 441 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: reading the same stories we are. They're relying on the 442 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,200 Speaker 1: same ountlets were the rest of us are. It was 443 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 1: a good reminder for me to have my kind of 444 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: reset in that way. For me, I'm the most interested 445 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,479 Speaker 1: in what people are reading and then what they're saying 446 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: about it. The thing I spend a lot of time 447 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: thinking about is like all of our biases, right. So 448 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,360 Speaker 1: this was one of the things you talked a lot 449 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: about on your television show, was this idea of like, 450 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 1: I'm on the opinion side, right, and there's a lot 451 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: of criticism about straight news. I mean there's a criticism 452 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: about opinion, but opinion obviously is opinion. But straight news 453 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: what you put in there, what you don't put in there, 454 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: how you cite things, how you don't cite them. I 455 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: mean it just you know, there really is a lot 456 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 1: of room for opinion and straight news. When you say 457 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: room for opinion in straight news, you mean no one 458 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: has no bias. And even the way an outlet covered 459 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:47,360 Speaker 1: straight news ends up showing a bias. On days when 460 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: I would decide to lead the hour with a story 461 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 1: about TikTok and not a story about Trump or Biden, 462 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: then there are inherent choices in all of that, right, 463 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 1: I do think you see a certain biases in newscover 464 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: sometimes come through on topics, on coverage of topics like 465 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: abortion as when I think there's undeniable examples like that. 466 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 1: By and large, I have to say as someone now 467 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: you know, sitting back and not necessarily run into the 468 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: TV when when news is breaking, although I sometimes still 469 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: do and I love watching. I am amazed by the 470 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,640 Speaker 1: quality of the kind of the day to day raw 471 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: news product that's out there. I guess what I'm feeling 472 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: this winter is I'm seeing that the difference between you know, 473 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: the good and the bad, Like the bad is really bad. 474 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: There's some stuff out there that's just atrocious, but then 475 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: but then the great is really great, and we and 476 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: we I think we take it for granted. I think 477 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: we take for granted that there's the A P and 478 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: the Post and the Ruters and the Times and the 479 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 1: CNN's out there gathering the raw material that the rest 480 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: of us then dissect talk about, take apart, analyze, make 481 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 1: fun of. You know what I mean. It's that raw material, 482 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: that raw news gathering that gets taken for granted too often. 483 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: But what's bad, Well, it's in the eye of the beholder. 484 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: I'll give an example. The grind something. The grinds my 485 00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: garse these days. I don't know. This is a billion 486 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: dollar business, you know, you need a billion dollars and fixes. 487 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. But here here's the well for you. 488 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: There will be a news story that will happen, let's 489 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: say on a Let's say on a Monday afternoon, and 490 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 1: on Tuesday morning, I'll still see shows, TV shows, website 491 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 1: still leading with the same story. And it's not it's 492 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: not involved, it hasn't hasn't changed. They're they're just they're 493 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: just recapping the news from twenty hours ago. My big thought, 494 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: my kind of fantasy business thing here is give me 495 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 1: a product that once I've heard that news once, you 496 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 1: will not repeat it again. Give me a way to like, Okay, yes, 497 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: I know that the stock market dropped yesterday. You don't 498 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: need to tell me again in the morning. I'm noticing 499 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: sometimes kind of all that kind of base level repetition 500 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: that happens. You'll notice that a lot in television news 501 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 1: as well. Every ten minutes they'll summarize that there was 502 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: a spy balloon. I'm like, you know, I'm aware, I 503 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: know where it came from. Like, you don't need to 504 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: give me the two sentences about how this or originated. 505 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 1: There's just a lot of that kind of repetition for 506 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: repetition's sake that happens. I do have to say, the 507 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: spy balloon got so much coverage, and it was really 508 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 1: kind of a raw shack right like right wing media 509 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: had a certain sort of feeling about that it was 510 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,199 Speaker 1: too late and that Biden had done it wrong and 511 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: weren't too open to any other possibilities. Overall, in the 512 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: right with media, and there are some exceptions, the anti 513 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: Biden frame did win out, and in some ways they 514 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: didn't have any other ways to go. It is depressing 515 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 1: that we are in an an information environment where nuggets 516 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:28,160 Speaker 1: information are used as warfare by partisans in order to 517 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: to to love their side, but to the something that 518 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: is the reality. What other narrative could they have gone with? Right? 519 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 1: I don't know, right right right? I also think, like, 520 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: you know, there are people who really do kill it 521 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 1: at Fox News, a man who are straight journalists who 522 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: have been there forever. I was thinking about Jennifer, Jennifer Griffin. Yeah, 523 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 1: she's incredible. I mean, so there are some really great 524 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: reporters there that are I mean, so I do think, 525 00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 1: like you don't want to throw the baby out with 526 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: the bathwater, But I thought the most interesting media story 527 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: last weekend was that Fox News was the only network 528 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: to have a live shot of the balloon as it 529 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: was down. The major networks did not have a live 530 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: show and it's and it's because of the local stations. 531 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 1: So it's because the local stations affiliated with the other 532 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: networks were not there at the beach with a camera 533 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: point at the sky in the right place. So it 534 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 1: was a big win for Fox News. And I found 535 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: it to be an interesting contrast to the other right 536 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: wing channels. So news Max has been out there making 537 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: a lot of noise recently, and there are other conservative 538 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: channels as well. Only Fox had the resources to actually 539 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: own the spy balloon story. In fact, news Max was 540 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: running some repeat episode of some talk show when it 541 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: all happened on Saturday afternoon, so that is a notable difference. 542 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: And then, of course we could spend an hour with 543 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: the critiques of Fox and they're all accurate. I mean, 544 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: my god, that they ran on the air Friday night 545 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: and screamed about a possible explosion in the sky over 546 00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: Montana outrageously that might have come from wuhan unethical behavior 547 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: by Fox News in primetime. I mean that, my goodness, 548 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: we all knew the balloon had moved past Montana. Some 549 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: person posted a video that was clearly it must must 550 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: have been fake. Fox ran with it like it was 551 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: actually real news. I mean, that's that's embarrassing by Fox's 552 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: primetime shows. But my points, the network deserve credit for 553 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: for having that liveshot on Saturday, and in contrast to 554 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: its conservative rivals like Newsmax, which which did not have anything. 555 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting in those moments when you can 556 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: see the difference between these outlets. Yeah, well, I guess 557 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: this is bad. Molly. Now you've got me like talking 558 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: like an old school TV news or blogger, like like 559 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: I'm back in my dorm room blogging about TV. You 560 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: have for so long covered the media in this very 561 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: like methodical way. I mean, are you worried you're gonna 562 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: miss something? Or now are you just delighted? Tell me 563 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: if you think this this is crazy? I think right 564 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,719 Speaker 1: now we're in a period of repeat episodes. And so 565 00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: what I mean by that is Donald Trump's running for 566 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: resident again, but kind of low energy, in a low 567 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 1: energy way, right, And there's more investigations into Trump and 568 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,719 Speaker 1: for that for years, and it feels to me like 569 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: a series of repeat episodes. Oh yeah. And I don't 570 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: mean that to say, oh, you know, it's it's it's 571 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: I listen. I still I still tune in, I still 572 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: love watching CNN, I still listen to all my podcasts, 573 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: like I'm still in it as a consumer. But it 574 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: doesn't feel to me like we're in an environment where 575 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: there's something other than chat, GPD O course in the 576 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:28,959 Speaker 1: rise of AI. It doesn't feel to me like we're 577 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: in a moment where there's something profoundly new happening in 578 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: our news environment. So maybe that's why I've just been 579 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 1: enjoying playing Mario with my kids so much. I mean, 580 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: I do think that's a really good an important point 581 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: that you're talking about just now, which is I think 582 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: everyone feels like it is, you know, this Trump. It's funny. 583 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: There was this polling that like spun a whole news cycle, 584 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: this Washington Post ABC poll that was a thousand people 585 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: that said nobody is looking forward to a rematch. I'm sorry, 586 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: like I thought the methodology on that was like a 587 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: little bit cookie. I'm not like completely on board with that. 588 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: And also like if you see the statistics like they are, 589 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: you know, the previous poll had a totally different spin. 590 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: So I'm just not like totally on board with that. 591 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: But my reaction to that poll is it's so funny 592 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: about the pull up. My reaction to that poll was 593 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: it's a repeat episode because we had the same polling 594 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: last year that said that Americans did not want to 595 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: rematch and did not want Trump him by So I 596 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: was like, even the poll about the rep repeat as 597 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 1: a repeat. I mean, clearly, if we've learned anything from 598 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: the mid terms, you know, like I had all these 599 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,239 Speaker 1: folsters on the podcast and I was like, you know, 600 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: you guys, like your polls were wrong, and they were like, no, 601 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: the way you interpreted them were wrong. We were still 602 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: you know, there's a ten point margin of error. Whatever. 603 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: The polls are meant to give you a sense or 604 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: but the reality is people don't use polls that way. 605 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: They still use them, and and they do encourage horse 606 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: race journalism. They do. They do encourage horse race journalism. 607 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: And I think for the rest of our lives, that 608 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: will always be too much horse race journalism for that 609 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 1: for the taste of some. And then then it becomes 610 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: about how you point your antenna and if you if 611 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: you can adjust your tennor or your creation or your 612 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: own news feed to to to block some of that 613 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: out and to focus on other things. And I think 614 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: letting people are better off. I think about polling like 615 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: I think about my classes, Like I put on my 616 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: glasses to watching to see far away, and like you know, 617 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: otherwise things are a little blurry, Like when I look 618 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: at poles, I don't want to how my glasses on. 619 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: I don't want to see them perfectly. I want them 620 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: to be a little blurry, because that is the reality. 621 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: You know, that's the reality. You should you know know 622 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: that it's not a perfect exact answer, but it's instead, 623 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: you know, a ballpark estimate that's probably right most of 624 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: the time. The problem happens when we put our when 625 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: I put the glasses on, we cover the poles as 626 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: if they are exact right, right, No, No, I think 627 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: that's right, And I mean I think ultimately what we're 628 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: seeing is For example, we had this Colorado congressman on 629 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: the podcast, Adam Fresh. He ran against Lauren Boubert. Everyone 630 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: was saying, your easy to have man, he doesn't have 631 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: a prayer. He lost by like five votes. So, like 632 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: I mean, poles do ultimately dictate money, and that money 633 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: does ultimately dictate in a lot of these races. Who 634 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 1: wins as much as like someone who's more sophisticated, like 635 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: you might theoretically look at them as a nearer or 636 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: far kind of thing. A lot of people are looking 637 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: at them as like gospel. I think that is true. 638 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: But I think at the same time, we haven't ever 639 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: more well two things at the same time, right, I 640 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: was gonna say, doesn't ever more sophisticated audience and political 641 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: consumers who are much much savvier about this world than 642 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: they were, you know, a couple of decades two ago. However, yes, 643 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: there's there's also people who clearly still still reply to 644 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: those ridiculous emails from from the r n C in 645 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: the DNA and not d n C, but you know 646 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: the Democrats and emails and the Trump emails that are 647 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: like obviously outright lies. They lately like live to me. 648 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: Every day I get the emails for fun. Clearly people 649 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: are still donating, and I'm clearly some people still fall 650 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: for those emails. Yeah, that's absolutely true. Thank you, Brian. 651 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 1: I hope you'll come back. Thank you. I know you, 652 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: Our dear listeners are very busy and you don't have 653 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,760 Speaker 1: time to sort through the hundreds of pieces of pundentry tweak. 654 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 1: This is why every week I put together a newsletter 655 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 1: of my five favorite articles on politics. If you enjoy 656 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,800 Speaker 1: the podcast, you will love having this in your inbox 657 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: every Friday. So sign up at Fast Politics pod dot 658 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,800 Speaker 1: com and click the tab to join our mailing list. 659 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: That's Fast politics pod dot com. And al verg and 660 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,760 Speaker 1: Deborah mcclutchy are the directors of The Martha Mitchell Effect, 661 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:53,760 Speaker 1: which is streaming now on Netflix. Welcome to Bath Politics, Deborah, 662 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: Thank you and Anne, thanks for having us. Okay, so 663 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: you guys are here to talk about the Martha Mitchell 664 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 1: Effect explained to us what that is and how you 665 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: decided to make this short movie. So the Martha Mitchell 666 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:15,720 Speaker 1: effect is actually a medical diagnosis um that was coined 667 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties bred Brendan Mayer, and it essentially 668 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: posits that a medical professional deems a patient story delusional 669 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: when in fact they're telling the truth. And it was 670 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 1: named after Martha Mitchell because that, in fact, is what 671 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 1: happened to her. Martha Mitchell was a a Republican cabinet 672 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:41,959 Speaker 1: wife under Nixon's administration, and she essentially was a very outspoken, 673 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,919 Speaker 1: telegenic woman. She was someone who didn't want to hang 674 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 1: with the political wives of the time who were very 675 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 1: traditional and quiet. She want to hang with the boys. 676 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,359 Speaker 1: And she was incredibly popular. In fact, there was an 677 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: article that was written at the time of survey actually 678 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 1: that she was just as famous as Jackie. So she 679 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: was essentially a household thing and the only one who 680 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: would really talk to the press in the sort of 681 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,239 Speaker 1: buttoned up mix and administration, you know, and the nixt 682 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: administration loved it because they could sort of harness her 683 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: popularity to sort of push through different policies or talking 684 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 1: points that they would slip to her, sort of slide 685 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 1: into her. Yes, she had a sort of interesting transition 686 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: from cheerleader to Cassandra. Yeah, absolutely, I mean she you know, 687 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 1: pre Watergate, they loved her and they thought she was 688 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 1: amusing and they harnessed her popularity. But then after the 689 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: Watergate burglary, they realized they we're going to have a 690 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,759 Speaker 1: hard time controlling her. And she was talking out and 691 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 1: they were worried about what she knew. They were really 692 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,320 Speaker 1: more worried that she was going to shine a spotlight 693 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,280 Speaker 1: on this sort of brewing scandal. And as a result, 694 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 1: um she was contained against her will in the hotel 695 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 1: in Newport Beach and tranquilized against her will and silenced. 696 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,799 Speaker 1: So the Lesson Years never to Newport Beach. Yes, yeah, bro, 697 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:09,320 Speaker 1: will you explain to us why Martha Mitchell matters now? Sure, 698 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: Martha Mitchell matters now? Because the film really is a 699 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: case study in gaslighting. So gaslighting was the Merriam Webster 700 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,719 Speaker 1: Word of the Year last year. Gasling has happened to 701 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: many prominent people. Although it can happen in everyday life. 702 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,439 Speaker 1: It could happen to women, it can happen to men, 703 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,320 Speaker 1: It can happen to a country. You know, we would 704 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,760 Speaker 1: argue that our country was gaslightd in the previous administration 705 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,600 Speaker 1: very often. So she matters now, and her story matters 706 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,760 Speaker 1: now because it can really be a way for people 707 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: to understand the mechanisms of gaslighting through her story and 708 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,479 Speaker 1: through this case study, and really understand what it is, 709 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 1: how they can fight against it, especially women, and just 710 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,760 Speaker 1: see the gas lighting that had happened. And also abuse 711 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 1: of power. You know, that's what happened in Watergate, is 712 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 1: that it was an dream abuse of power. You know, 713 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 1: democracy was on the line, and that's all too common 714 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,399 Speaker 1: in our current political climate right now. Unfortunately. The thing 715 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 1: that I think is interesting about this phenomenon is that 716 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,440 Speaker 1: she went from sort of the kind of the toast 717 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,640 Speaker 1: of the town to having a pretty grim ending. Will 718 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: you guys talk a little bit about that. In a 719 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,800 Speaker 1: lot of ways, this is sort of the richest to 720 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 1: drag story. And yeah, it's unfortunate, it is kind It 721 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 1: is ultimately a tragedy. I mean, she did, you know, 722 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: sort of a honeymoon period we call it right before 723 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 1: Nixon resigned, where she sort of did a press to 724 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,359 Speaker 1: her and people were starting to recognize oh, she was right, 725 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,919 Speaker 1: like we should listen to her originally, but then unfortunately 726 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,879 Speaker 1: she got very sick and died prema. Clearly I never 727 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,800 Speaker 1: really saw, you know, sort of what she could have become. 728 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: I also relate to this story in a certain way, 729 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: which is, like so many women of that time, they 730 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: sort were able to only be one thing, you know, 731 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 1: a socialite, a mother. You know, there wasn't a lot 732 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: of availability for women to be other things than just 733 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,800 Speaker 1: one thing. If that makes any sound, Yeah, that's very true. 734 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,400 Speaker 1: I mean Sally Quinn says in the film that, you know, 735 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,520 Speaker 1: women at the time were meant to be hostesses, so 736 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 1: they dealt with the social aspect of life. And you know, 737 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: Martha Mitchell was the wife of John Mitchell, the Attorney General, 738 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: and was getting a lot of attention, really enjoyed it, 739 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,360 Speaker 1: and her husband actually really enjoyed it too, So she 740 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 1: was unusual in that sense. You know, she was a 741 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,399 Speaker 1: cabinet wife and a celebrity. But I can't think of 742 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 1: any cabinet wives right now actually that our celebrities, right yeah. 743 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: I mean I also think that ultimately, you know, she 744 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 1: was sort of and also ultimately she wasn't really she 745 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 1: he sort of took her kid too. Yeah, yeah, I 746 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 1: mean the story of Martha, little Martha Mitchell is quite 747 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 1: sad to me. It does seem like John Mitchell had 748 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,879 Speaker 1: a great influence on his the daughter, and and yeah, 749 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,160 Speaker 1: Martha died alone and she was estranged from her daughter. 750 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,360 Speaker 1: It's pretty grim. When you guys were making this movie, 751 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 1: what did you learn? We had just been a lot 752 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 1: of time digging into the White House tapes, which is yeah, 753 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,799 Speaker 1: it's a tough tough road because it's just so hard 754 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,560 Speaker 1: to hear and it's so voluminous um. But what I 755 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:28,320 Speaker 1: found the most fascinating was how much Nixon talked about Martha. 756 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 1: I mean it was constant. He was you know, I 757 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,759 Speaker 1: think at first he was like amused by her, and 758 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 1: you know, him and his wife spent a lot of 759 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 1: time with John and Martha. And then I think he 760 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,239 Speaker 1: was jealous of her popularity. And then I think he 761 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,000 Speaker 1: was really scared of her because he wasn't used to 762 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 1: women like Martha, you know, he just wasn't. And so 763 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 1: there were lots of feelings, lots of really awful things 764 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 1: that he said about her, about her appearance, I mean, 765 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,960 Speaker 1: typical things that you would imagine gendered you know, sort 766 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 1: of discrimination and such. That was my biggest take away. 767 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,799 Speaker 1: What about you, Deborah? I would add to that, not 768 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,239 Speaker 1: even in terms of this particular story, but that just 769 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,840 Speaker 1: that these stories exist in the archive, like and and 770 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 1: I realized as we were digging, like, wow, this story 771 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,399 Speaker 1: is actually here, but no one really done deep enough 772 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,840 Speaker 1: to tell it. And so we were really excited about 773 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,600 Speaker 1: exhuming the story, um and bringing it out, you know, 774 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,880 Speaker 1: in terms of not all the president's men via a 775 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,760 Speaker 1: different lens, you know, via a lens of a woman 776 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 1: who experienced her Watergate story. So I learned actually that 777 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 1: there's a lot of stories like this. They're just hidden, 778 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: but if you look, you can find them. Ultimately, she's 779 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,799 Speaker 1: sort of become a celebrity posthumously. Is there sort of 780 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: regret from John Mitchell or from the daughter or is 781 00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,360 Speaker 1: there any sort of sense is there any sense that 782 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,480 Speaker 1: they have looked back on her story differently now well 783 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,719 Speaker 1: John Mitchell has passed, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. We 784 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,359 Speaker 1: tried to reach out to Martha Mitchell and she would 785 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,680 Speaker 1: I've talked to us or does it? Talked to many 786 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,800 Speaker 1: people in the press. We did reach out to Clyde Jennings, 787 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 1: who was Martha's son from a previous marriage, and he 788 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,919 Speaker 1: very much agreed that his mother was maligned. And unfortunately 789 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 1: he couldn't talk to us either, but he did agree 790 00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 1: with us, and I think I think was pleased, you know, 791 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,959 Speaker 1: that that her story was finally being told, her side 792 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 1: of the story. It is interesting to me that she 793 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:29,440 Speaker 1: sort of became a celebrity in light of the similarity 794 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 1: between Trump and Nixon. Yeah, it is interesting. I mean, 795 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 1: we haven't really talked about this, but it just came 796 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 1: to mind. I mean, you know, the similarities are so uncanny, 797 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:40,719 Speaker 1: but I feel like a couple of months ago, we 798 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,719 Speaker 1: saw Trump was having a rally and and he was 799 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 1: throwing out red hats that said Trump was right. And 800 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,840 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, my lord, that comes from Martha 801 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,600 Speaker 1: was right, from the funeral bouquet that was left anonymously 802 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,399 Speaker 1: at her funeral. That this sort of like tagline has 803 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 1: sort of, you know, sort of transformed itself and like, 804 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 1: fifty years later is sort of coming into the ether. 805 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 1: I mean, that's just one example. There are many. It's 806 00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:13,200 Speaker 1: such a story of the ages. Do you guys think 807 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,520 Speaker 1: that there is an equivalent today or do you think 808 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,400 Speaker 1: that just because we've sort of moved on as a society, 809 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,279 Speaker 1: there is no equivalent today of of what happened to 810 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,240 Speaker 1: Martha Mitchell. That's a question that, yeah, that we often 811 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 1: get asked. Bad It's hard. It's hard to say, I 812 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,799 Speaker 1: mean in terms of a Republican sort of turning on 813 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,440 Speaker 1: the party in some ways, like Liz Chaney comes to mind, 814 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,760 Speaker 1: but that's not a perfect example. It's kind of tricky 815 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,560 Speaker 1: today to say. Yeah, I mean, you couldn't have someone 816 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:49,520 Speaker 1: like Martha Mitchell today, or you probably wouldn't because her 817 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:51,759 Speaker 1: life was so limited in a way that was very 818 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,879 Speaker 1: much a women of the time. But right, I mean, 819 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,400 Speaker 1: you definitely saw the Republican Party turned on Liz Cheney 820 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,920 Speaker 1: in a in a similar ashon. Yeah, yeah, but I 821 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:05,440 Speaker 1: mean Liz Cheney is definitely, you know, a comparison. But 822 00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,600 Speaker 1: this Chaney is an elected official, like Martha had soft 823 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,279 Speaker 1: the power, and you really don't see that today. You 824 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:15,320 Speaker 1: don't see Karen Pitt's coming out, you know and testified 825 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,919 Speaker 1: Nay six committee. I mean in a weird way the club. 826 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:20,440 Speaker 1: I mean, he's going to be mad at me for 827 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,920 Speaker 1: saying this. But the closest in a way is George Conway. 828 00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:27,000 Speaker 1: I agree, yes, because he's the spouse who just like 829 00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:31,480 Speaker 1: couldn't who like couldn't look pretty and shut up? Absolutely 830 00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:33,680 Speaker 1: and it and it also affected his family. I mean, 831 00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,600 Speaker 1: so much of Martha's story is is sort of you know, 832 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:38,960 Speaker 1: the personal side of water Kate, but it really is 833 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,800 Speaker 1: about a marriage, right, It's about a dissolution of a marriage. 834 00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,239 Speaker 1: And it's also we you know, we term it like 835 00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,880 Speaker 1: a love triangle between Nixon and Martha vying for the 836 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,440 Speaker 1: attention of John Mitchell, and in the end, John Mitchell 837 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:55,440 Speaker 1: betrays his wife for his boss. Yeah. I mean that 838 00:44:55,600 --> 00:45:05,239 Speaker 1: is so incredibly Republican Party that, Yes, it's just a 839 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:09,040 Speaker 1: sort of interesting, very historic moment in a way that 840 00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:13,319 Speaker 1: Martha Mitchell was. Did you guys feel that it led 841 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,640 Speaker 1: you to something else? I mean, are there are the 842 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,759 Speaker 1: stories you want to tell now that have come from 843 00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,399 Speaker 1: this experience? I would say there should be a I'm 844 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,400 Speaker 1: not sure if I want to tell this or I 845 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:26,400 Speaker 1: don't want to speak for Deborah, but but but I 846 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,920 Speaker 1: do feel like there should be a film about Dorothy 847 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:33,880 Speaker 1: Huts tell us who that is. Dorothy Hunt was Howard 848 00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:38,359 Speaker 1: Hunt's wife, and Howard Hunt was one of the he 849 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: wasn't a burglar, but he was involved with Gordon Lyddy 850 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,720 Speaker 1: and sort of coming up with this Jim Stone being 851 00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,440 Speaker 1: and Jimstone is what ultimately led to the Watergate breaking 852 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:53,359 Speaker 1: into the Democratic National Convention by the Nixon minions. And 853 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,080 Speaker 1: you know, at one point Dorothy Hunt was involved. She 854 00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:01,279 Speaker 1: mysteriously died in a plane crash with ten dollars of 855 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:06,799 Speaker 1: cash that was meant or of the Cuban pay. So 856 00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:11,160 Speaker 1: I just feel like she was so involved there and 857 00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,120 Speaker 1: maybe the HBO plumbers will get into it, but I 858 00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,440 Speaker 1: don't know. I feel like that she deserves a documentary 859 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:18,920 Speaker 1: on her own, right, Yeah. I mean, if I'm going 860 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,240 Speaker 1: to get killed in a plane crash with all that cash, 861 00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,520 Speaker 1: I would want a doc I mean, that's the least 862 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:31,360 Speaker 1: they can fucking do. You know, absolutely, So what's next 863 00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:35,719 Speaker 1: for you guys. We're very excited about the Academy or nomination. 864 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,799 Speaker 1: That's what's coming up next. You're exciting, So that's yeah, 865 00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,920 Speaker 1: that's the next thing immediate. Well, that is very exciting. 866 00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,399 Speaker 1: I hope you guys win and it changes your whole 867 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,759 Speaker 1: lives and then you come back some day when your 868 00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,680 Speaker 1: guys are moved on. This was great. Thank you guys 869 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,200 Speaker 1: so much. Thank you Molly. This was so great to 870 00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,799 Speaker 1: talk to you. Thank you, Molly. Yeah, this was really fun. 871 00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:09,840 Speaker 1: Thank you, Jesse Cannon. Kevin McCarthy, the Speaker of the House, 872 00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:15,040 Speaker 1: because the try gets you. Speaker of the House. Kevin 873 00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:20,800 Speaker 1: McCarthy is pregaming Biden's State of the Union speech, doing 874 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:27,640 Speaker 1: all off the record talks with journalists, and Pundon's getting 875 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,719 Speaker 1: ready to try and push back against Biden's good economic 876 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:37,800 Speaker 1: numbers and his bipartisan message. How's that going for him? Well, 877 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,080 Speaker 1: it's hard to know because it's all off the record, 878 00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,919 Speaker 1: but I would just say, as someone who who sort 879 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,160 Speaker 1: of knows how the sausage gets made, Republicans are better. 880 00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:51,520 Speaker 1: I think at doing more off the record talks with journalists, 881 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,520 Speaker 1: and I wonder if some of these Democrats could be 882 00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,719 Speaker 1: helped by doing more off the record talks with journalists. 883 00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,640 Speaker 1: I think that it's good to talk to people, even 884 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,440 Speaker 1: if it's off the record. And so my moment of 885 00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:11,640 Speaker 1: fun Garay today is the incredible annoyance of Mr Kevin 886 00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:20,280 Speaker 1: McCarthy and his obstructionist government trying to pregame the State 887 00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,719 Speaker 1: of the Union before it's even happened, and for that, 888 00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:28,239 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy gets our moment of gray. That's it for 889 00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:32,080 Speaker 1: this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, 890 00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:35,040 Speaker 1: and Friday to your the best minds and politics makes 891 00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,400 Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, 892 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,680 Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. 893 00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:43,760 Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening.