Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to season three oh one,
Speaker 1: Episode one of DALY'SAI Guys Day production of iHeartRadio. This
Speaker 1: is a podcast where we take a deep to dive
Speaker 1: into america shared consciousness. And it is Tuesday, August twenty second,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. You've been waiting for us to get
Speaker 1: to this day, so the week can tell you that.
Speaker 2: It is, of course, National Pecan tort Day. There's so
Speaker 2: many days for peacans.
Speaker 1: Man, the con farmers have gotten to the National Day
Speaker 1: industrial Complex.
Speaker 2: We'll go alright while you're you know, enjoying all those
Speaker 2: sweet sweets. Don't forget. It's also National Tooth Fairy Day.
Speaker 2: Shout out the Tooth Fairy Union. National Surgical on College
Speaker 2: this day, Fuck cancer, shout out to the surgeons, though
Speaker 2: that'd be trying to battle it. National Boo Day, International
Speaker 2: Day of commemorating the Victims of Acts of Woya, my god,
Speaker 2: it's so long acts of violence based off religion or belief.
Speaker 2: That's a tall one. And what's one more? Just to
Speaker 2: make it super fun? The last one is National Being
Speaker 2: Angel Day.
Speaker 1: Just being Angel? Yeah, hey, every day nation will be
Speaker 1: an Angel Day for you, sweethearts. Thanks, hey, my name
Speaker 1: is Jack O'Brien aka don't go Chase and Zaz love Balls.
Speaker 1: Just stay on the picket line until that asshole pays you.
Speaker 1: I know that you're gonna have to compete with AI y'all,
Speaker 1: but I think that strokes are so bad. That is
Speaker 1: Curtzy a Fighter of the Night Man underscore AAA on
Speaker 1: the discord, and I'm thrilled to be joined as always
Speaker 1: by my co host mister Miles.
Speaker 2: Grad Miles Gray AKA, and I've fable ten thousand miles
Speaker 2: and I'll trivele ten thousand more to be the world's
Speaker 2: most renowned auctioneer. I will tribal ten thousand miles or more.
Speaker 2: Shout out to no clue when I catch up on
Speaker 2: the discord for combining you know the the Proclaimers track
Speaker 2: with that State Center is Holden Moore. Food basically wrote
Speaker 2: his entire Wikipedia article and had to shout out the
Speaker 2: fact that he's traveled seventy five thousand miles doing auction
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's right, yeah, while also trying to cover
Speaker 2: for Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: It counts every mile that he travels. I respect that.
Speaker 1: Actually that you just never get over it, like, look
Speaker 1: how far we're going.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you really want to stunt, like, you know,
Speaker 2: we could, we could pull the passports out, young man.
Speaker 1: You know, businessmen do love to do that shit too.
Speaker 2: Be like, oh yeah, the.
Speaker 1: Status dude.
Speaker 2: The fucking airport any fucking like airport bar, You'll see
Speaker 2: two dicks in suits being like, yeah, like, you know,
Speaker 2: I just got I just got my million miler shot
Speaker 2: as so you know I'm back status dude. Yeah, taking
Speaker 2: my family down a Tobali next week. So yeah, got
Speaker 2: to get the tripped miles.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Thrilled to be joined in our third seat by
Speaker 1: a brilliantly talented filmmaker writer. She was one of the
Speaker 1: head writers for the Problem with John Stewart and wrote
Speaker 1: on Girls five, Have a Blessed, This Mess, The Opposition
Speaker 1: with Klepper, among many others. She wrote, directed, and starred
Speaker 1: in the acclaimed short film Basic Hosts the podcast Celebrity
Speaker 1: book Club. It's Chelsea Davanta.
Speaker 3: Oh Hi, intro like shouting my name into a cave,
Speaker 3: you know, seeing what echoes.
Speaker 1: Back to a cave full of the entire Internet. So
Speaker 1: that's right, the whole damn Internet is here to welcome you.
Speaker 3: On the I'm feeling very blessed to be back here
Speaker 3: and continue some very important discussions.
Speaker 1: Yes always yeah, So this is this is our Tuesday
Speaker 1: episode where we kind of take a look at one
Speaker 1: specific topic that we think kind of undergirds the whole zeitgeist.
Speaker 1: That's important to understanding the zeitgeist.
Speaker 3: Undergirds are what I use instead of spanks, so very.
Speaker 2: They were the free date spanks. That's right, what's my underds?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, I mean, so we wanted to have
Speaker 1: you on. You had one of our favorite observations in
Speaker 1: the history of the show when you you basically said
Speaker 1: that you knew Trump was going to win the twenty
Speaker 1: sixteen election based off of watching The Bachelor, and then
Speaker 1: you explained why and it made perfect sense and looking
Speaker 1: at pop culture tea leaves and like reading what it acted,
Speaker 1: like what is actually being said about what's happening to
Speaker 1: people on the inside, what has gone on with our
Speaker 1: shared dreams is one of my favorite subjects. You are
Speaker 1: really good at it. We love to do it on
Speaker 1: the Zeitgeist, and so we wanted to have you on
Speaker 1: to do just that, and we'll get into what specifically
Speaker 1: we're talking or actually we can do that now, I
Speaker 1: mean we throughout stan culture being the new religion. We've
Speaker 1: talked about that before, but this one subject keeps popping
Speaker 1: up on social media. Popped up over the weekend after
Speaker 1: we had selected this subject, and that is kind of
Speaker 1: like the desexualization of pop culture. Movie sex scenes in
Speaker 1: particular seem to be like a particular thing that is
Speaker 1: that people are objecting to lately and are like, why
Speaker 1: do these exist? When I watch an eighties movie? Why
Speaker 1: does dan Aykroyd get a blood job from a ghost?
Speaker 1: For instance? And that one's actually a really good question.
Speaker 1: But anyways, there's all sorts of things we've talked about before.
Speaker 1: The idea that like desexualized beautiful bodies is like actually
Speaker 1: a feature of fascist art, and so we've puzzled over
Speaker 1: whether that's what we're seeing here. But there's lots of
Speaker 1: As this has become more and more of a mainstream
Speaker 1: thing that we're seeing on social media, there's lots of explanations,
Speaker 1: and we thought you were the best person to have
Speaker 1: to have on the show to talk about this.
Speaker 3: I'm I'm thrilled to be here to talk about like
Speaker 3: very hot sexy bodies not having sex. No, but I
Speaker 3: was so fascinated you guys chose this because it's also
Speaker 3: something I've been thinking about a lot. Also just as
Speaker 3: like a side topic and where I'm coming from. I was,
Speaker 3: you know, the writers are on strike right now, but
Speaker 3: before we were on strike, I was pitching a show
Speaker 3: and one of the demographics it was going out to
Speaker 3: it was gonna be like part for millennials, part for
Speaker 3: gen Z. Sort of this basically like late twenties early
Speaker 3: thirties audience that people seem to think millennials and gen Z.
Speaker 4: Are just like so so so different.
Speaker 3: So when you're pitching for like that late twenties early thirties,
Speaker 3: executives start referencing studies like the ones we're going to
Speaker 3: talk about, like gen Z actually isn't having in sex anymore,
Speaker 3: so like like can one of these characters just like
Speaker 3: not have a partner of any kind and they just
Speaker 3: sort of like live in a hole and they stare
Speaker 3: at a wall because that's what we assume gen Z
Speaker 3: is doing. And it was so frustrating because every time
Speaker 3: I looked around, be it from people in my.
Speaker 4: Real life, the youth of the real life.
Speaker 3: TikTok, social media, really anything, I just kept feeling like
Speaker 3: that is not true at all, even in gen Z
Speaker 3: reality shows, like they are getting engaged, they are getting married,
Speaker 3: they're talking about dating kind of like the same way.
Speaker 3: You've always had this feeling of like, you know, I
Speaker 3: want to be having good sex, but I'm not.
Speaker 4: I don't know if that's something particular.
Speaker 3: To be in my friends, but like I remember in
Speaker 3: my early twenties it was like, yeah, we would like
Speaker 3: to be having sex, but no one's having sex, like
Speaker 3: sex in the city. Like that just feels like the
Speaker 3: twenties thing, unless, of course, you know, I'm sure some
Speaker 3: people were. But anyways, all to say that, like I
Speaker 3: really think about these studies that are being referenced, like
Speaker 3: gen Z is like this, and dah da da is
Speaker 3: like this, And all I keep thinking about is like
Speaker 3: who's doing these studies?
Speaker 4: And maybe gen Z is just not participating.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what, we're actually not going to answer
Speaker 3: the polls about like what we've been fucking lately. We're
Speaker 3: just not because I just don't think they're correct. But
Speaker 3: I would love to hear what you guys think.
Speaker 1: It's like the political polls that are like, man, these
Speaker 1: elderly people certainly over index. They seem like they're doing great,
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, how did you conduct this? Calling
Speaker 1: land lines exactly exactly?
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, I guess we didn't predict the election
Speaker 3: correctly off of the hundred landlines. And then the I mean,
Speaker 3: how weird do you have to be to pick up
Speaker 3: the phone these days? Who is answering the phone? We're
Speaker 3: trusting them with our polling data. The people who answer
Speaker 3: an unknown number, I don't trust them.
Speaker 1: We actually asked a bunch of gen Z people's grandparents
Speaker 1: about their sexual behavior, and this is what they told me.
Speaker 4: This is what they told us. Yeah, I just I
Speaker 4: think so anyways, I do.
Speaker 3: But what I do think is a really interesting discussion
Speaker 3: with this fascism thing is. And the thing that I've
Speaker 3: been feeling is that I'll say, as a millennial to
Speaker 3: the gen Z's is perhaps lacking new one discourse nuance,
Speaker 3: which I don't know how. I mean, how close do
Speaker 3: you think lack of nuance and understanding nuance is to
Speaker 3: turning fascist?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 3: On the nuance to fascist spectrum. I do think we're
Speaker 3: somewhat close, But I don't think it's fascism. I think
Speaker 3: it's nuanced.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that's probably true. We have talked
Speaker 1: before speaking of David Zaslove that he's a real gen
Speaker 1: zer because when he saw flea bag, he paused it
Speaker 1: and told everyone that we're if we're either going to
Speaker 1: turn this trash off for the sex scenes or we're
Speaker 1: just gonna watch it, and nobody's allowed to look at
Speaker 1: me while we watch it, don't. So he was very
Speaker 1: scandalized by a second.
Speaker 3: I'm sure he didn't want people to look at him
Speaker 3: as he was just coming egregiously flee back.
Speaker 2: Eyes off. Yeah, hands free, watch hands free, hands up,
Speaker 2: hands up, still laughing, how how well.
Speaker 3: I think that's also another good point though, of like,
Speaker 3: people like Zaslov and them are at the top of
Speaker 3: of our TV pop culture right now.
Speaker 1: So it is plugged in, I.
Speaker 2: Can just finish listen.
Speaker 4: Yes, that's exactly what I was going to say. God,
Speaker 4: he wants to look cool so bad.
Speaker 3: I saw him wearing three popped collared shirts the other day.
Speaker 3: Three So that's a jacket. That's a shirt, and then
Speaker 3: there was another shirt underneath three and all of them
Speaker 3: popped collars, and then the little pockets on the jacket popped.
Speaker 4: I said, come on, my dog.
Speaker 3: But anyways, all to say that, like, normally, I think
Speaker 3: we look at pop culture and it can really reflect
Speaker 3: what you were saying, reflect back on to like culture culture.
Speaker 3: But right now I'm feeling that actually only reality TV
Speaker 3: and social media can accurately do that, because people like
Speaker 3: Zaslov have been making television decisions for a good five
Speaker 3: years and they're not accurately reflecting culture anymore.
Speaker 1: Interesting. All right, well we are. That's what we're going
Speaker 1: to be talking about in the second and third act.
Speaker 1: First we were there first. That's something from your We
Speaker 1: need to get to know you better. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I get to know you. We do like to ask
Speaker 1: our guests, what's something from your search history that's revealing
Speaker 1: about who you are? Sir?
Speaker 3: You know what?
Speaker 4: I'll do it live? Do you know what I mean? Yeah,
Speaker 4: I'll go in live.
Speaker 3: Oh well, we're gonna get to it. But Chloe Bailey,
Speaker 3: patiently responding to swarm sex scene backlash, I was an
Speaker 3: article I'd read a while ago, but cue it up
Speaker 3: for our conversation.
Speaker 2: Got it, got it? Got it?
Speaker 1: What is something you think is overrated?
Speaker 4: Okay, here we go. Stay with me on this.
Speaker 3: So I was getting very nostalgic for magazines US weeklies,
Speaker 3: people holding it in your hands, someone basically curating your
Speaker 3: feed for you and telling you this is what people
Speaker 3: are paying attention to. So my husband got me a
Speaker 3: subscription to US Weekly and I was like, yes, back
Speaker 3: in the saddle, here we go. And I know it's like, okay,
Speaker 3: print media is dying, blah blah.
Speaker 5: Blah, but wow, oh my god, has this magazine taken
Speaker 5: such a turn to the point where even if we
Speaker 5: don't rate US Weekly highly anymore, whatever it is is
Speaker 5: still too high. Like in the magazine they are now
Speaker 5: printing celebrities own Instagram photos.
Speaker 2: Wow, okay, so.
Speaker 4: Yes, paper Instagram, but like sometimes like out of date.
Speaker 3: So it's like, over the course of six months, Selena
Speaker 3: Gomez posted a photo with a fish, and then someone
Speaker 3: else did, and now there's just a page in US
Speaker 3: Weekly being like, look, sometimes celebrities fish and it's like
Speaker 3: I already saw that on Instagram and you just like
Speaker 3: put it through your printer, Like what's happening.
Speaker 4: Do we not pay paparazzis anymore? Do they not have
Speaker 4: the money for that?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 4: Are we not curating like thoughts throughout the fish photos?
Speaker 3: It's just And then I started going through all of
Speaker 3: it and like the just they're just like us, that's
Speaker 3: it's just they're just printing Instagram.
Speaker 4: Still, I couldn't believe.
Speaker 2: I remember it used to be like the paparazzi things
Speaker 2: like you go to sprouts, you know whatever.
Speaker 3: Now they're like, oh, look Chrissy Cheekan dances in her
Speaker 3: living room. It's like, yeah, because she's holding the camera herself,
Speaker 3: what are you doing?
Speaker 2: Oh wow?
Speaker 3: As soon as I just couldn't believe it was still
Speaker 3: a magazine, and then they're like atoning for their crimes,
Speaker 3: Like do you guys remember when two celebrities would be
Speaker 3: caught wearing the same dress and they'd be like who
Speaker 3: wore it better? And they it'd be like one percent
Speaker 3: for me and a Suvari.
Speaker 1: Like you know, everyone thinks you look like shit.
Speaker 4: You look like shit in this dress.
Speaker 3: And so now they're sort of like they've learned like, oh,
Speaker 3: we're not you know, we're not supposed to like pen
Speaker 3: women against each other.
Speaker 4: And so now they just put a little thing that
Speaker 4: says twining.
Speaker 1: Oh but.
Speaker 3: Boo boo, tell me a story, do something interesting, Like
Speaker 3: I get that. I like, yeah, like, don't put them
Speaker 3: against each other, but like that was it twiny? They
Speaker 3: just they just past photos of them and is going
Speaker 3: twinning and then the silent part is better?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know which twin do you prefer?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And the comedians used to make fun of fashion in
Speaker 3: the back, like the back page, just to be sad
Speaker 3: pathetic comedians like myself being like tent dress, I'd go
Speaker 3: camping in that, you know, something like that. And now
Speaker 3: it's people being like, mules are very in, pink is in?
Speaker 4: Color? Is a color that's in this season?
Speaker 2: Bright green? Are you missing out on the Yeah?
Speaker 1: I wonder like, do we think this happened because budget
Speaker 1: cuts at US Weekly or because there's only one magazine
Speaker 1: now and so they like don't have to compete with anybody,
Speaker 1: so they're just like I don't fucking care. Let's pretend
Speaker 1: green is a new thing.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I you know, I was thinking about it and I
Speaker 3: was like, Okay, are they just sort of getting like
Speaker 3: is this a thing where most of Americans aren't on
Speaker 3: social media? So this magazine is like still helping people,
Speaker 3: but like no, like six out of six.
Speaker 4: Ten Americans are on Instagram.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
Speaker 4: And I think the four that aren't don't subscribe to
Speaker 4: us weekly.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like the people I know who aren't on social media,
Speaker 2: they damn sure don't give a fuck about celebrity culture.
Speaker 6: Eve.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like on their own shit. They're like, I know,
Speaker 2: I'm I operate on a completely different system than.
Speaker 4: Other people, exactly.
Speaker 3: And this is where it's like, oh, print media is
Speaker 3: going out of business. Well it's like I think they've
Speaker 3: been told time of death is in four years, and
Speaker 3: they're just trying to like in their lives early. Like
Speaker 3: I don't know, I like it's as if they're like,
Speaker 3: no one's like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I'm not gonna bust my ass as the
Speaker 2: factory burns down. I'm gonna fucking just kick it and
Speaker 2: just you know, just like we get singed in the corner.
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. We used to every week. I mean we
Speaker 2: used to buy all the tabloids shout out bloyd Watch
Speaker 2: where we would buy like every tabloid like National Inquirer, Globe,
Speaker 2: all that shit, and then all the gossip mags like
Speaker 2: People in Touch. And I'm curious now to see, like
Speaker 2: I wonder how much the pandemic has changed that coverage,
Speaker 2: because even then it was still doing like who wore
Speaker 2: it better? Yeah, and other things and just being like
Speaker 2: they're just like us. But it was like the old
Speaker 2: you know, the paparazzi shots out in Malibu or somebody
Speaker 2: wearing big glasses with the Starbucks trained the cup or whatever.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she kind of looks sad. I bet she's divorced.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: The best was like, oh dude, this girl paradise. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a subtext of every photograph, wasn't there. One
Speaker 1: was like Brad Pitt touched rape Jennifer Aniston's stomach. They're
Speaker 1: fucking pregnant. Yeah, exactly one miles. That was an entire
Speaker 1: that was in every magazine for ten and a half years.
Speaker 4: For real, every day she's pregnant.
Speaker 2: She's pregnant. Why would you touch your stomach right after
Speaker 2: eating if she wasn't.
Speaker 1: I hadn't seen each other for fifteen years, and they're
Speaker 1: like shocking new photos suggest that they're back together.
Speaker 3: It's like Angelina Jolie says, he's pretty abusive on a plane.
Speaker 4: Jennifer Aniston pregnant with twins.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, cut to Jennifer Aniston missed me with that gossip.
Speaker 1: But US Weekly was purchased by American Media, Inc. Which
Speaker 1: is the owner of National Inquoir and all that, like
Speaker 1: the actual bloids.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, then it should get juicier.
Speaker 1: I just don't.
Speaker 3: I have to say, Like I listen, I subscribed to
Speaker 3: some GUS newsletters and they're so funny. They're so fun
Speaker 3: the ones that include pictures fucking ty. If you printed
Speaker 3: that out, I would buy it for three ninety nine.
Speaker 3: I just like it's as if like they brought in,
Speaker 3: they brought in a bunch of granddads to run this
Speaker 3: weekly and they're like, I think my wife said there
Speaker 3: was uh recipes.
Speaker 1: They almost definitely did, because like what that was one
Speaker 1: thing that we noticed about National Inquiry and like the
Speaker 1: actual supermarket tabloids was that they seemed to be made
Speaker 1: by and for people who were in their eighties, Like truly,
Speaker 1: it was just all about like this elderly celebrity might
Speaker 1: be dying last days for Dolly like that that was
Speaker 1: Every other issue was about how Dolly Parton was dying.
Speaker 1: But for the most part it was just old old
Speaker 1: people news.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I guess that's really just the demographic. It's
Speaker 4: them and me with a subscription.
Speaker 1: Right, I'll read what is what's something you think is underrated?
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm doing a little like you know, mine go
Speaker 3: together like they match.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: Reddit, Now again you'll be like, yes, Reddit's really popular, Chelse,
Speaker 3: Like what are you talking about? But again, I feel
Speaker 3: like a bunch of communians myself included, have always used
Speaker 3: Reddit as a punchline as like oh the like the trolls,
Speaker 3: the sub humans, you know what I mean, Like who cares?
Speaker 4: What's like happening on Reddit?
Speaker 3: And I have some Google search terms up for my
Speaker 3: podcast and I did this Carolyn Callaway Natalie Beach episode
Speaker 3: and somehow, you know, one of.
Speaker 4: My Google alerts brought me to a Reddit thread.
Speaker 3: Before clicking it, I thought like you're not supposed to
Speaker 3: do this, Chelsea, Like this is not Whatever happens from
Speaker 3: here is like not gonna go well. And when I
Speaker 3: got there, I was like, holy shit, this is some
Speaker 3: good discourse. This is some really smart, high level discourse.
Speaker 3: And I think there's been a shift. Granted I have
Speaker 3: not been real checked in to Reddit, but like on
Speaker 3: TikTok comments and Instagram comments and Twitter, they all kind
Speaker 3: of like derail the discourse and it always goes into
Speaker 3: like your up, You're ugly that and should die like
Speaker 3: somehow that always gets there, like within the first fe minutes.
Speaker 4: Reddit is for the people.
Speaker 3: Who are like we we we want seven hundred characters,
Speaker 3: we have something to say, we need a real forum.
Speaker 3: And I just I found some really elevated topics in there,
Speaker 3: and I was like, I cannot believe I haven't been
Speaker 3: living here.
Speaker 4: The whole time.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's definitely all about like what subreddits you
Speaker 2: go on, Definitely what the energy is of people, because yeah,
Speaker 2: some places are just total toxic meltdowns constantly. Like it's
Speaker 2: funny even how like sports teams will have different subreddits.
Speaker 2: We're like some people are like, nah, that other subreddit
Speaker 2: is for like the fucking wishy washy day dreamers who
Speaker 2: don't actually know ball. We know shit on this subreddit,
Speaker 2: and like you'll even see like people with the same
Speaker 2: interest like no, you guys over there, serious shit over here,
Speaker 2: or like if you want a shit post, do that there.
Speaker 2: But yeah, there really is.
Speaker 3: But really it's like they're yeah, creating internal guidelines, they're
Speaker 3: kicking people out to the of the threads. I saw
Speaker 3: this thing where it's like, yeah, we don't like I
Speaker 3: saw this battle of like, don't call this girl pick me.
Speaker 4: Don't use pick me energy. It's a sexist term. But
Speaker 4: I was in a thread for people to shit talk
Speaker 4: other probably women.
Speaker 3: I was in the thread where you're like, isn't this
Speaker 3: woman so fucking stupid? And someone was like, you are
Speaker 3: misusing pick me right right? That is toxic, And I
Speaker 3: was like.
Speaker 2: Where am I hello, professor?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just really yeah, I really liked it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's a really good point. I think
Speaker 1: that's a really good underrated because Reddit does, like it
Speaker 1: is still used as shorthand and for like dumb internet
Speaker 1: like trolls and in cells, and like that's definitely not
Speaker 1: exclusively the case or even like largely the case. I
Speaker 1: feel like there's usually like if you want to find
Speaker 1: a way to like use the Internet that doesn't make
Speaker 1: it feel like it's completely broken and your every page
Speaker 1: that you go to is taken over by ads. Just
Speaker 1: like put a Reddit filter on all your searches. Just
Speaker 1: do like whatever you're looking for and then Reddit, and
Speaker 1: you're going to have a better time on the Internet.
Speaker 2: Yeah. See, how like on Google when people have like
Speaker 2: questions about like day to day things, the like when
Speaker 2: it auto fills reddit will be like one of them.
Speaker 2: They're like how to change car battery Reddit, you know,
Speaker 2: then like YouTube because like it's really interesting. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm I'm on Reddit a lot. I you know, obviously
Speaker 2: like you go like the shit I'm interested in. I
Speaker 2: go I check those subreddits out and it's fantastic. There's
Speaker 2: other ones I just like to watch, Like there's one
Speaker 2: about economics where like a bunch of economists choke. It's
Speaker 2: like you'll never get consensus with like with two economists
Speaker 2: in the same room, and then like they just like laugh,
Speaker 2: like all high minded economy economic shit, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: what the fuck. I'm like this is kind of interesting.
Speaker 2: But yeah, there's it's there's truly something for everybody there.
Speaker 2: Like I was on a subreddit where people just be
Speaker 2: like I just found this thing? What is this? And
Speaker 2: then people come in they're like, oh, I've been a
Speaker 2: plumber for thirty years. This tools actually used to like
Speaker 2: stop a drain or blah blah blah blah blah. People
Speaker 2: like whoa.
Speaker 1: Yes it was a plunger.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like this like goes down a drain and
Speaker 2: like inflates. It's like when there is and when there
Speaker 2: isn't a stop for it. It's like some very specific
Speaker 2: plumbing tool. But it just looks like a lightsaber. So
Speaker 2: people are like, I.
Speaker 1: Don't know what I just found this ship encrusted lightsaber.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 3: I think the mob mentality of Reddit is very It
Speaker 3: has a higher IQ and EQ than TikTok mob mentality.
Speaker 3: I think if you went on TikTok, you're like, yo
Speaker 3: with this plunger, people.
Speaker 4: Like you idiot, ye know what this is? And you'd
Speaker 4: go on Reddit and they'd be like, we don't talk
Speaker 4: like that in this one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah why. There's like some people on subredd
Speaker 2: it's called like no dumb questions, like where people go
Speaker 2: and there's not like people are like I'm sorry, what
Speaker 2: is Selena Gomez? And like a kidney thing I keep
Speaker 2: reading about. Please okay, this.
Speaker 4: Sounds like I should go there because I've.
Speaker 1: Got answers for that one.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's another one. Yeah, out of the loop.
Speaker 2: You'd probably like because that's another one where people come
Speaker 2: in with like pop culture questions and they're like, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: who is D four four VB? The artist?
Speaker 4: I love this?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel I feel sad for myself that I
Speaker 3: missed out on Reddit for so many years because I
Speaker 3: just assumed it was like you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: it's a lazy punchline of like these losers. It's like, hmmm,
Speaker 3: they're pretty smart. They want to type out paragraphs like
Speaker 3: that takes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty smart.
Speaker 2: Just don't venture anywhere where like you may be the
Speaker 2: topic of conversation.
Speaker 1: That's subreddit specific. To Miles's point, not great place to
Speaker 1: find out about Donald Trump if you're just reading from
Speaker 1: a Donald Trump reddit sub reddit. Not a great place
Speaker 1: to see crimes solved in real time, but then in
Speaker 1: absolutely nowhere is good at crowdsourcing crime solutions.
Speaker 3: Good point, But listen, specific genre of books, that's where
Speaker 3: I'm at. Get to the book places, influencer snark threads,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: There there's like foam wah, which is like a Dumois
Speaker 2: kind of I don't know, have you seen foam wak?
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know what, I am so so out
Speaker 3: on Dumoi and foam wa because it's like they have
Speaker 3: made every single person into a paparazzi.
Speaker 4: And I don't trust half.
Speaker 3: Of these paparazzis, you know, I mean, like every time
Speaker 3: they're like, hey, guess what you know Toby Maguire is
Speaker 3: suing his wife a non please, It's like that could
Speaker 3: be that honestly, could be my grandma.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: Have you read Las Weekly ten years ago and is
Speaker 4: like guess what I heard?
Speaker 3: Like it's like, yo, we have to I want to
Speaker 3: read the juice and know it's real, and now it's
Speaker 3: not because it's just some girl being like SoC Crystalia
Speaker 3: without his mask in a coffee.
Speaker 2: Shop, right right right boo. Also, yeah, Victor in the
Speaker 2: chap brings up going a shower or you know about
Speaker 2: shower oranges. No please, this were motherfuckers. They go into
Speaker 2: a hot shower and just just just cave man, bite
Speaker 2: into an orange.
Speaker 1: Not necessarily, it's just they're just saying that you should
Speaker 1: eat an orange and in a shower because of the
Speaker 1: accommodation of hot shower and cold orange.
Speaker 2: Like it was caping for shower oranges right now.
Speaker 6: It was very sexy and yours was very like just
Speaker 6: because the posts I read on shower oranges, I'm more
Speaker 6: in like, I'm more interested by the ones where people
Speaker 6: like guys, I did it.
Speaker 2: I just I just let my animal instincts overcome me,
Speaker 2: I just bugged it out with this orange and the
Speaker 2: shower and it was beautiful, and they see people like,
Speaker 2: would tangerines work?
Speaker 1: I mean, one of the things I like about the
Speaker 1: concept of shower oranges is that you can just peel
Speaker 1: it and drop it wherever you want, because you know,
Speaker 1: shower peels are pretty much waterproof.
Speaker 3: But then you're leaving them there, okay, but then yeah.
Speaker 4: It was just the joy of dropping it up later.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, I think it appeals to
Speaker 2: like really messy people because it seems like the appeal
Speaker 2: is all messy.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I'm not I'm not some you know,
Speaker 2: very put together person like that, but I guess it
Speaker 2: doesn't appeal to me, Like, yeah, get all gross, but
Speaker 2: the water just watches it away. You know, the thing
Speaker 2: you hate about the way you want to eat in
Speaker 2: real life, which let the food get all over you,
Speaker 2: Like I don't.
Speaker 1: Maybe, all right, so everybody just wants to just bite
Speaker 1: into a watermelon from the outside in, stick your head
Speaker 1: through it, and then just like throw the rind everywhere. Right, No, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's just all right, moving on pool watermelons. I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: all right, let's take a quick break, and when we
Speaker 1: come back, we will talk about the de sexualization of
Speaker 1: pop culture. Is it a thing? What does it mean?
Speaker 1: We'll be right back and we're back. So just a
Speaker 1: couple things to kick us off. More and more we're
Speaker 1: seeing like these reactions go viral. There was one over
Speaker 1: the weekend where a woman describes the movie Oppenheimer and
Speaker 1: like that her and her husband wanted to see Oppenheimer,
Speaker 1: but they had heard there was a sex scene. You know.
Speaker 1: They she looks to be in her I'd say like
Speaker 1: late twenties, early thirties, and it's it's just a it's wild.
Speaker 1: The way she's talking about the sex scene as if
Speaker 1: it's like a thing we can all agree is like
Speaker 1: traumatic and not something that like anybody wants to watch,
Speaker 1: and like they talk about like how they got through it.
Speaker 1: They did their research, they like looked when it was
Speaker 1: going to happen, and then they like close their eyes
Speaker 1: during it. And this comes. I don't know what her
Speaker 1: deal is, what her husband's deal is, if like, you know,
Speaker 1: this is part of a long running social media presence
Speaker 1: where people know like that they have some past trauma
Speaker 1: as a couple or something like that. So I don't
Speaker 1: want to dive too much in and be like, what
Speaker 1: a weirdo. She also has like a Jesus fish on
Speaker 1: her wrist, like tattooed on her wrist, so it could
Speaker 1: just be like religious stuff, but like this does seem
Speaker 1: to be. I think the reason it's getting so much
Speaker 1: traction is people are seeing this as a take more
Speaker 1: and more where people are like, finally someone says it
Speaker 1: like sex scenes are weird. They make me feel gross.
Speaker 1: I don't want to see them, And it came out
Speaker 1: a lot with Oppenheimer in particular. But Chelsea, I just
Speaker 1: want to open the floor to you on this subject
Speaker 1: of like a step from horniness as media consumers.
Speaker 3: Well, first I have to say I haven't been totally
Speaker 3: drawn to see Appenheimer, but after that video, now I
Speaker 3: really want to go, Like I found myself being like
Speaker 3: I have to know what this sex scene is, so
Speaker 3: I don't, you know, I don't know where that puts
Speaker 3: me perspective, But now I want to see the movie.
Speaker 4: Have you guys seen it? Is it a graphic sex scene?
Speaker 4: I'd have to know.
Speaker 1: It's not graphic.
Speaker 2: It's actually like really so if you only have missionary sex, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's straight, like the woman's yeah okay, but that was the.
Speaker 4: Most risk thing, and it's it's like nudity, yeah, there's like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's there's some nudity. But I actually think like
Speaker 1: it feels very strange. Like Christopher Nolan has traditionally been
Speaker 1: described as like being somewhat of a sexless filmmaker, Like
Speaker 1: he made a movie about people's like going inside people's
Speaker 1: dreams and no one, no one sucks at all, Like nobody,
Speaker 1: like sex doesn't even inside these people's dreams. Sex doesn't
Speaker 1: really exist inside most of his movies, I would say,
Speaker 1: other than like the Joker character is kind of the
Speaker 1: most fuckingest character that like he has and like any
Speaker 1: of his movies in the sense that like he is
Speaker 1: like this kind of creep but like at least there
Speaker 1: is a sexual energy with the Joker. But anyways, this
Speaker 1: seemed like he was responding to that and being like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't do a sex scene and it just feels
Speaker 1: it is a weird sex scene. The first one is
Speaker 1: really like it feels almost like self parody to me.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I went in with a if
Speaker 1: I went in being like I'm going to hate this
Speaker 1: Christopher Nolan sex scene. But I think he's trying to
Speaker 1: fight against the idea that his movies are dead sexually
Speaker 1: and he failed.
Speaker 4: It sounds like he failed.
Speaker 2: I think he did.
Speaker 1: But I also I think he's popular, at least partially
Speaker 1: because his movies take place in a sexless universe, and
Speaker 1: I think people want that from their movies, like the
Speaker 1: blockbuster movies.
Speaker 3: Well, it's yeah, there's so many one after that description,
Speaker 3: no two after that description. I want to see it
Speaker 3: even more. I just have to know, I have to know.
Speaker 3: It's the only thing that has brought me to this movie.
Speaker 3: But yeah, there's so many threads to connect on this,
Speaker 3: but kind of the The number one thought that comes
Speaker 3: to my mind is something I talked about with my
Speaker 3: one of my best friends, Ashley, who's also a television writer,
Speaker 3: which is that prior to this moment in culture, sex
Speaker 3: scenes have somewhat always They've always been bad story wise,
Speaker 3: so there's never there's almost I'm gonna say Deadpool is
Speaker 3: maybe the one exception where like a sex scene actually
Speaker 3: had to be there to move the story forward. But
Speaker 3: usually sex scenes are like a brief intermission where like,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, because the moment they've gotten
Speaker 3: to like kissing. We know, Okay, so we're there story wise,
Speaker 3: So if you're gonna show the full sex, like you
Speaker 3: just kind of sitting it, and so then it really
Speaker 3: is to be a very It's just exists to be
Speaker 3: a sexy sex scene, which was way more needed in
Speaker 3: previous generations where like that was the only time you
Speaker 3: were going to see a sexy, sexy sex scene, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was wearing the trench coat and times Square. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was thinking that like some examples of sex scenes
Speaker 1: that needed to exist and that I think should inspire
Speaker 1: people to like think more creatively about sex scenes. Is
Speaker 1: like Parasite has a really interesting sex scene. Not an
Speaker 1: American film, but it like shows this like really wealthy
Speaker 1: couple like kind of having this weird sexual encounter on
Speaker 1: the couch where they're like fantasizing that they are like
Speaker 1: part of this lower class that they looked down on
Speaker 1: and suppress. And like I thought that was like a
Speaker 1: good that's a good one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's another going when we were like, oh, there's
Speaker 4: like meaning and.
Speaker 3: Purpose for yes, But I feel like, yeah, sort of
Speaker 3: traditionally and for the most part, sex scenes exist simply
Speaker 3: to be sexy and they don't move anything forward, and
Speaker 3: almost all of them have been written and directed by
Speaker 3: you know, white cis men for a hundred years and so,
Speaker 3: which and which I'm bringing up to say, like, I
Speaker 3: think if our previous canon of sex scenes like had
Speaker 3: had any sort of other like sexual lens on them,
Speaker 3: that could turn a different portion of people on.
Speaker 4: I wonder if we'd be having this conversation.
Speaker 3: But because of that, people are sort of looking at
Speaker 3: this as like, oh, like you can go back and
Speaker 3: look at what was I just watching. It was a
Speaker 3: it was it was a movie where you're like, oh,
Speaker 3: it has a lot of sex scenes and you rewatch
Speaker 3: them and you're like, oh, all of them rape scenes.
Speaker 4: Like and you just don't It was a it was
Speaker 4: a movie.
Speaker 3: That had let me look hold on it was Sharon
Speaker 3: Sharon Stone basics.
Speaker 4: I think it was basic instinct.
Speaker 3: And I'm just like blinded by the most famous part
Speaker 3: of that movie and too, but I think it is
Speaker 3: basic instinct. But there are other sex scenes in that
Speaker 3: movie and they're just all rapes and and but they
Speaker 3: but they're films like sex scenes, and so I think
Speaker 3: this sort of like pushback to stuff like that is
Speaker 3: is built on one hundred years of only one version
Speaker 3: of sex being shown on screen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think like just the other thing as we
Speaker 1: were like thinking about the Nolan and like, is he
Speaker 1: popular because he's like a particular like sex doesn't exist
Speaker 1: in his cinematic universe, and like his sex scene in
Speaker 1: Appenheimer seems like it was directed by somebody who's never
Speaker 1: had sex. Like I was also thinking about Tom Cruise, who,
Speaker 1: like the whole kind of argument against him has always
Speaker 1: been this guy has like no sexual charisma, Like he
Speaker 1: just like you can't really picture him having sex. Really,
Speaker 1: he's like kind of this beautiful creature who doesn't have
Speaker 1: any like you can't really picture him. And like the
Speaker 1: other sex scene that made me id identify other than
Speaker 1: the Appenheimer one, the one that like made me identify
Speaker 1: with all the people who are like please stop was
Speaker 1: the fucking Top Gun two sex scene where it's like
Speaker 1: uh huh, yeah, it's just so weird, Like all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, the movie starts to feel like it's an
Speaker 1: ad for a retirement home. Like not that they're like
Speaker 1: that old, but like the vibe of it is just
Speaker 1: like this, like it like feels like a like Viagra commercial,
Speaker 1: like totally because yes, it's just like dead and remote
Speaker 1: and like takes place in heaven or something. It's really weird.
Speaker 3: And the the you know, the first hop Gun, the
Speaker 3: most sexual scene in that movie is a abs at
Speaker 3: the beach playing volleyball and they crush it, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean. Like, and then in the second movie
Speaker 3: they did it again and I don't know if you noticed,
Speaker 3: but they had to shoot Tom Cruise like profile and
Speaker 3: silhouette shirtless like it was a very like long lens. Yeah,
Speaker 3: technically shirtless on the beach, but we're really going to
Speaker 3: focus on on miles, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Jeans are super high for no reason that this is
Speaker 1: just how people wear their jeans now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they crushed it in that beach scene too,
Speaker 3: and where it's like no one is I don't feel
Speaker 3: like Yeah, I feel like on the most part, it's
Speaker 3: like we can take sexy abs at the beach, but
Speaker 3: like actual sexual intercourse, like I don't even know, like
Speaker 3: don't film it. It does feel like very uncomfortable, which yeah,
Speaker 3: I have to say that when you brought up this
Speaker 3: topic because personally, I feel like this is when it
Speaker 3: goes into gen Z. I'm sort of out on all
Speaker 3: the like gen Z is not having sex. It's like
Speaker 3: they were in a pandemic during the years when you
Speaker 3: learn how to put your mouth on someone else's face,
Speaker 3: so you know what I mean, So like where there's
Speaker 3: gonna be a lag and like I you know, I'm
Speaker 3: not believing all of these the so called data of
Speaker 3: like they don't believe in sexy or I don't think
Speaker 3: that's it. But what I do think is true is
Speaker 3: that there's been a lot of sexual education, but not
Speaker 3: that second step into the nuance of sexual education. So
Speaker 3: like things feel very cut and dry, to the point
Speaker 3: that in the television show Swarm, which Chloe Bailey was in,
Speaker 3: I don't know if you guys saw that, but it
Speaker 3: has a very very graphic sex scene in the pilot,
Speaker 3: and a bunch of people online truly believed they were
Speaker 3: having sex. So they wrote into the television show accounts
Speaker 3: and on TikTok to be like why did they make
Speaker 3: Chloe Bailey have sex and seem to have no understanding of.
Speaker 4: The art of television.
Speaker 3: Yeah, pantomime, Yes, like pantomime set you guys, it's not happening.
Speaker 3: There's like you know, protect sheer protection cups over their parts.
Speaker 3: But that's where I'm like, this is a nuanced understanding
Speaker 3: mental alacrity, how to look in the real world issue
Speaker 3: and less of like what is like we don't like
Speaker 3: sex anymore issue, because.
Speaker 2: There's like a few ways to look because I think
Speaker 2: of like erotic thrillers, right, And it was like the eighties,
Speaker 2: we were you know, the conservatives. Conservatism of the eighties
Speaker 2: sort of like helped build up the pressure for like
Speaker 2: in the mid eighties for these films to start propping up,
Speaker 2: like you know, coming up and people like, oh, actually
Speaker 2: fuck with this something by night. The nineties were so
Speaker 2: horny and dumb, We're like these are our greatest movies.
Speaker 2: And I think like there's an uptake for like a
Speaker 2: few reasons after, Like it's just kind of as we
Speaker 2: were talking about this and just like researching the topic
Speaker 2: and everything is like one really interesting thing is you
Speaker 2: point out is like a lot of those erotic thrillers
Speaker 2: have like sex can be dangerous, but also these women
Speaker 2: are crazy and will kill you. Yeah, And I think
Speaker 2: part of that is like the AIDS epidemic was already
Speaker 2: making people question the quote unquote dangers of sex or
Speaker 2: how sex could lead to like your eventual death right.
Speaker 2: And then there's also like this sort of evolution of
Speaker 2: sexual agency where like again to your point about these
Speaker 2: like male writers and directors, like it almost feels like
Speaker 2: for them, they're getting out their anxieties over like an
Speaker 2: evolving new form of sexual politics coming out, and like
Speaker 2: what does that mean for dudes? Like are they just
Speaker 2: gonna fucking kill us?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: And also what sexually turns them on?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
Speaker 4: It's like it's like one dude's fantasy, Like she says no,
Speaker 4: but she means yes.
Speaker 3: I said one dude. I meant hundreds of millions of dudes,
Speaker 3: but who made all the art? But it's like had
Speaker 3: had there been like to take this to the to
Speaker 3: the porn conversation, like like it is so hard to
Speaker 3: find porn that that that I personally like, I know
Speaker 3: this is TMI, but it's more of like a female
Speaker 3: thing like and I'm talking about like I don't like
Speaker 3: when the house is dirty.
Speaker 4: And I'm not talking about like I like it clean.
Speaker 3: It's just like if there's like a super dirty mattress,
Speaker 3: it's just so distracting. It's like like or like put
Speaker 3: a sheet on it, you guys, like what is it?
Speaker 3: And it's just like the actual ambiance and the actual atmosphere,
Speaker 3: and it's like stuff like that isn't thought through. And
Speaker 3: I feel like if our history of sex on TV
Speaker 3: and film had included other people perspectives of point of
Speaker 3: views of what turn them on.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, there wouldn't be such a backlash right now.
Speaker 1: I don't mind a backlash against sex scenes that aren't
Speaker 1: doing anything interesting or like see yeah, like like the
Speaker 1: Oppenheimer's sex scene, like the or uh not Mission Top
Speaker 1: Gun two sex scene, Like I'm fine with people lashing
Speaker 1: back against that because it's not doing anything. I just
Speaker 1: don't want people to not feel like they can express
Speaker 1: that part of the human experience because like there's something
Speaker 1: bad about inherently bad about sex scenes as opposed to
Speaker 1: like there being something that is inherently bad about how
Speaker 1: sex scenes and sexual like energy was expressed in film
Speaker 1: up to this point.
Speaker 4: That's really well said.
Speaker 2: Yeah there's I mean like there's other dimensions too, like
Speaker 2: when you look at it, like I'm also like, where
Speaker 2: does capitalism factor into this too? Because you know, like
Speaker 2: there was an analysis of like from just like around
Speaker 2: two thousand, like post nine, like right after nine to
Speaker 2: eleven to like two thousand and six, like all these films,
Speaker 2: and like seeing that sex or nudity like was not
Speaker 2: like a like a revenue booster for films at all,
Speaker 2: Like it really did nothing, Like it didn't move the
Speaker 2: needle at all. And then you think about like, you know,
Speaker 2: I guess eyes wide shut. It's just like our sort
Speaker 2: of lasser prestige eerotic thriller. And that's two thousand and
Speaker 2: there are a couple you know, trickling out after that,
Speaker 2: but then you have like Lord of the Rings and
Speaker 2: Harry Potter come out, and then the studios are setting like,
Speaker 2: oh man, these like broad fucking movies, like we can
Speaker 2: just start like these are just money printing things, and
Speaker 2: like maybe we just need to go all in on
Speaker 2: this shit too. So I know there's like a dimension
Speaker 2: of that. But then I also think of like the
Speaker 2: taboo element too, which is like to your point, even Chelsea,
Speaker 2: of like you know, in the eighties and nineties, like
Speaker 2: this was like a date night thing where like you
Speaker 2: go like, I don't know, like there's some sexy shit
Speaker 2: going on up there, and we don't have to feel
Speaker 2: bad because there's no online porn where we can just
Speaker 2: kind of like blow the doors open on everything we desire.
Speaker 2: So it fills that sort of need. But then there's
Speaker 2: also like the taboo where like I remember, as like
Speaker 2: a ten year old middle schooler, you would talk about
Speaker 2: these movies, not even because they were worked, like it's
Speaker 2: like a good movie. You'd be like, did you see it?
Speaker 2: Did your parents let you minute and.
Speaker 3: Thirty seconds in on the VHS exactly?
Speaker 2: And become a man? Yeah, you will. You will know
Speaker 2: what it looks like if you go to that scene,
Speaker 2: like what? And so I feel like for my generation too,
Speaker 2: like we were like somewhat educating ourselves in this really
Speaker 2: bizarre way with these films. But then also I think we,
Speaker 2: like the nineties were so hyper sexual, Like I feel
Speaker 2: like it also burned us out to the point where
Speaker 2: now you're looking for something a little more nuanced rather
Speaker 2: than like, well, when's the part where they're going to
Speaker 2: show a topless woman in the movie?
Speaker 3: Totally, And also I think it's sort of that thing
Speaker 3: we're talking about, which is like it's just a call
Speaker 3: for better art. And also I think there is a
Speaker 3: call for better porn, like consensual porn porn being but like,
Speaker 3: I think there's just a call for like being better
Speaker 3: because we did get educated and now with the Internet,
Speaker 3: this generation is like the most educated. I mean, I
Speaker 3: was just thinking about how Harvey Weinstein, you know, maker
Speaker 3: of many many Mirramax films made Free to Callow, which
Speaker 3: was this you know, supposed supposed to be Prestige filmed
Speaker 3: with Sama Hayek, And there's this famous story where he's like,
Speaker 3: you need to do a full frontal naked lesbian scene
Speaker 3: in the Free to Collo movie or I'm not gonna
Speaker 3: make it, And Salma thinks to herself, like, I really
Speaker 3: think the story about this woman is important, So I
Speaker 3: guess I'm gonna do this sort of softcore porn scene
Speaker 3: that makes absolutely no fucking sense again because people like
Speaker 3: Harvey Weinstein were in charge, and I feel like it's
Speaker 3: more of a pushback to that or even going to
Speaker 3: swarm where they think, like, you know, this sex scene
Speaker 3: is kind of really glorifying the male character, and Chloe
Speaker 3: Bailey's character isn't. It's a very like male sex scene again,
Speaker 3: and they're sort of like, what about her consent?
Speaker 4: Why does she have to be used like this.
Speaker 3: Granted I don't think they're understanding it's fake, but that
Speaker 3: sort of nuance of like this is so silly, But
Speaker 3: it's like they've been taught about consent and me too
Speaker 3: an assault and being better, but also not how to
Speaker 3: still be sexy or how to still like go forward
Speaker 3: with it, And so it probably does feel like a
Speaker 3: very like just don't do that type of situation.
Speaker 1: Or that it could be a statement. I actually haven't
Speaker 1: seen swarm, but like swarm, but like it could be
Speaker 1: a statement about like, you know, every film character is
Speaker 1: not meant to be a model of virtue, right Like,
Speaker 1: sometimes you're showing bad people doing bad things or like
Speaker 1: and the like that. I feel like that becomes a
Speaker 1: problem when you're not allowed to do that without being
Speaker 1: seen as like approving of the behavior that you're depicting
Speaker 1: in the movie.
Speaker 2: Right that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I feel like I've seen that a lot too,
Speaker 3: which kind of goes again to like the nuance and
Speaker 3: art and how like that has sort of that conversation
Speaker 3: I feel like has gotten so stilted in places like TikTok,
Speaker 3: whereas in other forums it's still alive.
Speaker 1: Right, let's take a quick break, real quick and we'll
Speaker 1: come back and keep talking about this.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back.
Speaker 1: And we're back, and Miles, I think you're about to taskol.
Speaker 2: Oh just yeah. I mean, like you know, the other
Speaker 2: thing is like we're just kind of the evolution. I
Speaker 2: just think of like where I got my sexy imagery
Speaker 2: as someone born in the eighties, like through you know,
Speaker 2: like coming of age and then like late nineties aughts
Speaker 2: and things like that, and it feels like at a
Speaker 2: certain point, like it would be like, oh, a Van
Speaker 2: Damn movie is gonna have movies in it, Like that
Speaker 2: was a shorthand in my mind, like you you were
Speaker 2: like conditioned to know like certain directors, actors, whatever, like
Speaker 2: there would be that sort of thing and then you
Speaker 2: But but then like a lot of the sex or
Speaker 2: sexual content just really kind of shifted to like our
Speaker 2: popular culture, like it didn't have to live in these
Speaker 2: sort of movies like basic Oh what about basic instinct
Speaker 2: kind of thing. It's like it's in my music video,
Speaker 2: it's in the advertisements, it's on cable TV at night.
Speaker 2: So it's almost like I don't know if it's like
Speaker 2: also again, this sort of diversification of where that sort
Speaker 2: of content lived to the points that it literally omni sexual,
Speaker 2: like everywhere was sex. So that also feels like another
Speaker 2: point where I guess the appeal of it only getting
Speaker 2: it directly from film begins to wane a bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and also like if you're like, Okay, check out
Speaker 3: this van dam sexy scene, or I can go to
Speaker 3: my OnlyFans of a real person who is alive who's
Speaker 3: doing my niche fetish and will look into the eyes
Speaker 3: of the camera.
Speaker 4: And say my name right, yeah, what you know what
Speaker 4: I mean? So when you go back to a VANDAM movie,
Speaker 4: you're like boring Seid, move it along, like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just thinking of remember when Seth MacFarlane
Speaker 3: did that Oscar song called boobs. Yeah the movies you
Speaker 3: can see boobs in And that was twenty thirteen and the.
Speaker 4: Response was like yawn like on like yeah, that's all.
Speaker 3: You're in it for, and it's like shitty to treat
Speaker 3: women that way, and it's like I'm still I'm still
Speaker 3: here for a song, like I still need to get
Speaker 3: to a place where like Seth McFarland can sing a
Speaker 3: song about full frontal dick and he's got thirty movies
Speaker 3: to reference, Like I think I've got one, you.
Speaker 1: Know, were there, Harvey Kaitel, Yeah, yeah, you go. I
Speaker 1: mean so I do still think it's interesting. So like
Speaker 1: the miles you were talking about, like they made it
Speaker 1: did an analysis in the early two thousands and found
Speaker 1: that like nudity was not something that drove money making,
Speaker 1: and I think rather than just that being always true,
Speaker 1: I think that's probably an indicator of like changing tastes
Speaker 1: in like filmgoers. And like the whole thesis that I
Speaker 1: have about movies is like, yes, they're like commercial ventures,
Speaker 1: but they people pay money to go see them because
Speaker 1: they are getting to see something that is happening that
Speaker 1: they can't really access inside them up on the screen, right,
Speaker 1: And so like that's why I think it's interesting that
Speaker 1: like early two thousands, like as the country was becoming
Speaker 1: like explicitly fascist in the War on Terror, and you
Speaker 1: know that that was a time when suddenly people were like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we don't we don't want to see this shit. And
Speaker 1: I agree, like it definitely has to do with like
Speaker 1: that there became there like suddenly there were better places
Speaker 1: to get that. But I also I don't know, like
Speaker 1: there it does feel like they're one of these articles
Speaker 1: from I think slash Film was saying that it it's
Speaker 1: there's been like sort of an internalization of the PG
Speaker 1: thirteen rating when it comes to like our movies, where
Speaker 1: that's just kind of what people expect from movies. And
Speaker 1: I do think that there's like I think that happened
Speaker 1: because corporations came through and like overtook everything, you know,
Speaker 1: Like the big example that this blood Knife article uses,
Speaker 1: the Bloo Knife article that we'll link off to on
Speaker 1: the footnotes is called Everyone's Beautiful and Nobody's horny or
Speaker 1: something to that effect, and it's about like superhero movies
Speaker 1: where everybody you know is just trained within just like
Speaker 1: an inch of like perfection, just like and that does
Speaker 1: that goes forward the superhero, it also goes for like
Speaker 1: the FBI agent and the background character, and you know,
Speaker 1: like that that's just how everybody is supposed to look perfect.
Speaker 1: But then our favorite filmmakers, this guy whose movies take
Speaker 1: place in a world where like dreams don't have sex
Speaker 1: in them, And I think that there is something to
Speaker 1: the idea that like so fascist art, like when you
Speaker 1: look at like what was popular in Nazi Germany, like
Speaker 1: the films of Lenny reech install with like the these
Speaker 1: documentaries where they would like glorify the human body and
Speaker 1: particularly the male body and like its strength and muscles,
Speaker 1: but like completely it was all about power dynamics, right,
Speaker 1: it was nothing about sex, and in fact, like sex
Speaker 1: was like to be completely removed from the equation. And
Speaker 1: I feel like there is like we obviously those movies
Speaker 1: also had like Hitler and it was like and all
Speaker 1: of the sexual energy is to be like sublimated to
Speaker 1: your religious fealty to the furor and like that.
Speaker 4: Horny for Hitler only, horny for Hitler only.
Speaker 1: And now it feels like it is done to sublimate
Speaker 1: to like the broader just kind of ideals of capitalism,
Speaker 1: and like the the fact that there's like an internal
Speaker 1: understanding of like, yeah, why would they put like iron
Speaker 1: Man fucking in this movie? Like it wouldn't make as
Speaker 1: much money. And I root for this movie because like
Speaker 1: that that's my team is Marvel and so like, and
Speaker 1: Marvel is winning against DC, and so I don't know,
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting. I don't think it is like
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a telltale symptom that like America
Speaker 1: is headed towards some sort of fascism with like a
Speaker 1: central fascist leader. But I do think it says something
Speaker 1: interesting about our relationship to this all consuming, like capitalistic
Speaker 1: ideal where it's like, yeah, no, we just take the
Speaker 1: sex out of everything, because like that is not actually
Speaker 1: making money for the thing that we want to see
Speaker 1: make money. And we're all on board with that, not
Speaker 1: just David Zaslov, Like we're all on board with that
Speaker 1: because it doesn't like I can just get my sexual
Speaker 1: content elsewhere.
Speaker 4: I'm going to say, I'm gonna push back on it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, having written in late night comedy for I can't now,
Speaker 3: I'm trying to do the math. I don't know, but
Speaker 3: I feel like the like, are we turning fascist think
Speaker 3: pieces like make the Rounds every three years, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean?
Speaker 4: And it's like are we are?
Speaker 2: We?
Speaker 3: Are we to the point where like it's not even
Speaker 3: gonna matter because the term fascist now means something different
Speaker 3: to everyone. It's lost all meaning, Like we're never gonna know,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, It's gonna be here and.
Speaker 4: No one will have any understanding on it.
Speaker 3: But taking this back to where we started the Bachelor,
Speaker 3: I will bring us into my main basis for this
Speaker 3: argument which is that the Bachelor is dying a slow death.
Speaker 3: It's definitely slow, but it's just every season it's dying.
Speaker 4: It's dining time.
Speaker 3: And this last year we got reality shows about dating,
Speaker 3: like Love Is Blind, like The Ultimatum, Queer Love, which
Speaker 3: is Milf Manner one if the.
Speaker 4: Best shows I've ever watched, would you say.
Speaker 2: Miles, I said Manner, Milf Manner.
Speaker 4: I did watch every episode, Yes I did.
Speaker 3: And that's actually a great one to reference because in
Speaker 3: the Ultimate Queer Love, they've got cameras on and you,
Speaker 3: I mean, you're watching porn for a second, and you're
Speaker 3: watching porn if someone you've intimately gotten to know like
Speaker 3: all their relationship issues, and that show was wildly popular,
Speaker 3: and on TikTok, the discourse about queer love stories and
Speaker 3: like there was an entire storyline of like, you fingered
Speaker 3: the woman I'm in love with and where's your fingers go?
Speaker 3: When did they start? And how did it happen? Is
Speaker 3: that considered sex? And then there's a conversation of like, everyone,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? Is that penetrative sex or
Speaker 3: not to be count that as sex? What is the
Speaker 3: consent needed for finger sex versus other sex yous and
Speaker 3: you're like and TikTok is like going nuts and loving
Speaker 3: this conversation. And everyone is loving that show. And I
Speaker 3: think it's because it was it was showing sex in
Speaker 3: the way that we understand and want to see it now,
Speaker 3: which is like real authentic. It's not through this like
Speaker 3: very singular patriarchal lens.
Speaker 4: Even on like Love Islands, they live in bikinis.
Speaker 3: They live in bikinis, and they switch partners every other
Speaker 3: day for fifty episodes every season, and it's crushing it,
Speaker 3: Like Love is Blind, you know, they talk about are
Speaker 3: they I mean sex are they not? Meanwhile, the Bachelor,
Speaker 3: which is a very sterile show, which would fit this
Speaker 3: sort of like fascist thing where it's like overnight sweets,
Speaker 3: like the door closes and like who knows is dying
Speaker 3: a death.
Speaker 4: In popularity and so interesting.
Speaker 3: If we look to reality TV, I would say we
Speaker 3: are still very much here for sex, but we're no
Speaker 3: longer here for it in the ways that are harmful. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like it's it doesn't feel good. And then if sex
Speaker 3: scene is to like make you feel sexy, you don't
Speaker 3: want to feel bad while you're watching it.
Speaker 1: Yeahh So maybe my ultimate Plya is like that movies
Speaker 1: do something interesting with their sex scenes because that's what
Speaker 1: people want. And it's not that people are necessarily fascist, yo,
Speaker 1: that they just want something interesting and not like the
Speaker 1: traditional eighties movie sexy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, to Chelsea's point, like again, I was raised on
Speaker 2: the Buck Wild movie sex scenes, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And then you know, the internet kind of was like
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, I think I know what I
Speaker 2: like and to the point to nuance, like now I'm like,
Speaker 2: how come they not kissing in this porno. I'm like, nah, nah,
Speaker 2: I'm off this, Like y'all need to be making out
Speaker 2: as shit, like I need to, like I want to
Speaker 2: see y'all be passionate, right or y'all Like in Bridgerton,
Speaker 2: I just started watching the second see there's like one
Speaker 2: moment where this one character she just says she said,
Speaker 2: mister Bridgerton, and they just have like a look at
Speaker 2: each other, and I was like, oh shit, like and
Speaker 2: then they say shit, except like there was just a
Speaker 2: very tense moment and the release was just saying it
Speaker 2: and they shared a look and I was even like, damn,
Speaker 2: that was all right, Like yeah.
Speaker 3: We're like you're just like doing it well, you know,
Speaker 3: like that was hot and I didn't need to just
Speaker 3: see you coldly simulate motions.
Speaker 2: Right right exactly, like making the back of the beast
Speaker 2: with two backs, as it were. And I think, yeah,
Speaker 2: we're I think because we've moved on from just being like,
Speaker 2: will they show sex? They do yes, And then once
Speaker 2: everyone now this is I do want to say this
Speaker 2: is a direct attack on me, because that is a
Speaker 2: direct quote from something I said earlier before we started rowling.
Speaker 2: So I didn't do the fist pump though, Like I
Speaker 2: didn't do the double fist pump, yes, but like yeah
Speaker 2: that now we're so like, you know, it's like when you, like,
Speaker 2: you're you get introduced to a new cuisine. In the beginning,
Speaker 2: anything will do, and then as you formulate tastes, you're like, no, actually,
Speaker 2: I'm like, it's not just about having you know, steak
Speaker 2: or whatever or whatever. You know, you just you begin
Speaker 2: to actually understand what it is that is appealing to you.
Speaker 2: And I think, yeah, I think it's like it's just
Speaker 2: sort of simultaneous cultural evolution along with the amount of
Speaker 2: things we've been exposed to that kind of puts us
Speaker 2: in this different place and I think.
Speaker 3: It's the problem with art meeting capitalism right now, especially
Speaker 3: as like we're in the writer strike and the whole
Speaker 3: like you go woke, you Go broke movement, which is
Speaker 3: that like people come in and try and quantify it
Speaker 3: and do the data and the statistics and what's selling
Speaker 3: when what's not selling and actually this is in and
Speaker 3: that is in blah blah.
Speaker 4: But like the thesis is good, we would love a
Speaker 4: good movie.
Speaker 3: We would love a good movie, and the moment we
Speaker 3: get a good movie, they go, oh, do that again,
Speaker 3: do that again? Or like, you know, network television was dead,
Speaker 3: then Abbot Elementary comes up, right, it was it was good.
Speaker 4: Right, everyone goes.
Speaker 5: Workplace comedies, right, workplace comedies, and you're like, oh, okay,
Speaker 5: so that's nuts.
Speaker 4: That was not the only thing that made that show good,
Speaker 4: you know. And I just.
Speaker 3: Feel like people want really great art and every time
Speaker 3: it shows up, they're gonna love it, and every time
Speaker 3: it's shitty, they're gonna hate it. And then people are
Speaker 3: gonna drain it down into headline pieces of what could
Speaker 3: sell more or less, and they're gonna miss the point,
Speaker 3: which is that if it's good, it sells, and if
Speaker 3: it's bad.
Speaker 2: It does not right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. Well, Chelsea, such a pleasure having you.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I knew I would learn a lot. I did learn
Speaker 1: a lot.
Speaker 3: Were you guys horny the whole episode? I just need
Speaker 3: to know, like, you know, was it a horny episode
Speaker 3: for you guys?
Speaker 1: I was quaking? I mean you could then see that
Speaker 1: I was quaking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I feel that for Justin, he's gonna have
Speaker 2: to cut out.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I was an edgelord the whole time, So.
Speaker 2: Shout out the goon everybody gooning out there. Yeah, it
Speaker 2: was all I was all Sax music in the background, playing.
Speaker 1: Where can People Find You? Follow You? All that good stuff.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, please come listen to my podcast.
Speaker 3: It's called Celebrity book Club with Chelsea Devantes, but it's
Speaker 3: so much more you guys. We discuss female celebrity memoirs.
Speaker 3: We also do some pop culture stuff. I inspired by
Speaker 3: you guys. I did an entire Bachelor episode talking about
Speaker 3: politics and where we're at now, and someone pointed out
Speaker 3: to me that in our Republican years is when we
Speaker 3: had our worst bachelors too.
Speaker 4: It's you know, the method. Still I am.
Speaker 3: I am our data scientists on elections and so anyway,
Speaker 3: come listen there. And I'm on Instagram at Chelsea Devantes
Speaker 3: and I do like I post things from books and
Speaker 3: stuff and have conversations over there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Is it? Wait, so that the thesis is that
Speaker 1: when the Bachelor is bad, we elect Republicans.
Speaker 4: No, no, it's when we have Republicans in office. Is
Speaker 4: also cultural times.
Speaker 3: Where we are enjoying shittier bachelors who break the rules
Speaker 3: and are only out for themselves and are selfish peace shit,
Speaker 3: but they're so entertaining, So.
Speaker 4: Like Pete's the pilots, you know.
Speaker 3: Like if you just look at our Trump bachelor's, they're
Speaker 3: the worst of all time and they're very selfish dudes.
Speaker 1: Oh interesting, So maybe that's due to casting on the
Speaker 1: part of the producers of the Bachelor.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, and I think thinking of like like where
Speaker 3: we're at, Like Ari, You guys remember Ari as a bachelor.
Speaker 3: They brought him back and he like does the old
Speaker 3: switcher roo at the end. You guys are nodding, but
Speaker 3: you have no idea what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: Before I remember because Anna no, Anna would regularly play
Speaker 2: because what's Ari's last name? It's like Louis. It's like
Speaker 2: a food Oh is that.
Speaker 4: One ari gray hair? Race car drivers?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah they race car driver guy? Yees yeah
Speaker 2: yeah yeah, yes, I'm savvy. I'm savvy.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Colton, who was like in the closet, did an entire
Speaker 3: season as a fully gay man choosing one woman.
Speaker 4: He then stalks her.
Speaker 3: She has to take out her string order on him,
Speaker 3: and then he's like, I've been gay the whole time,
Speaker 3: Like wow, this is where we were at in the
Speaker 3: Trump years.
Speaker 2: Right, hey, do we get our first black bachelor and
Speaker 2: the Trump lay hear it too?
Speaker 4: Right? Yes we did.
Speaker 3: And that's also when we got our racial Reckoning season
Speaker 3: where they brought in one black guy to host the
Speaker 3: reunion and then guess what he left never has never
Speaker 3: been heard from again. They brought him in for the
Speaker 3: Racial Reckoning then sent him away.
Speaker 4: Anyways, what was I saying? Follow me on Instagram.
Speaker 1: Actually get more takes like that? Is there a work
Speaker 1: of media you've been enjoying?
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh so much?
Speaker 3: You know what, let's just give a shout out to
Speaker 3: milf manor it is not what you think.
Speaker 4: It is it is because it starts and.
Speaker 3: They're like, you're gonna be dating young men, and they're like,
Speaker 3: that's tight. And then the gate opens and it's all
Speaker 3: of their sons. Okay, so it's all of their sons.
Speaker 3: And then they're like, and you're gonna share room with
Speaker 3: your son, but you're gonna date the other sons of
Speaker 3: these other ladies here, and you're like, this is maniacal.
Speaker 3: And by the end of the episode, they've all like
Speaker 3: they're all just kind of like teaching their sons about
Speaker 3: like how to put a condom on a banana.
Speaker 1: Oh wow.
Speaker 2: It's also one of the worst made reality shows I've
Speaker 2: ever seen, Like there's no host. It feels like it
Speaker 2: feels like Lord of the Flies, with like weird, incestuous
Speaker 2: prompts that they have to do.
Speaker 4: Yes, they send them a text message like read this lab.
Speaker 3: They're like, all right, I guess we're gonna go to
Speaker 3: commercial break now, and then we come back.
Speaker 4: We're gonna put on Blindfeldt's We're gonna fiel up our sons.
Speaker 4: We're trying and choose which one is my son.
Speaker 2: Oh, this is definitely him.
Speaker 3: Oh, this is my son, this is my boy.
Speaker 2: There's some moments where I'm like, they've destroyed my mind.
Speaker 2: Completely like in ways that I did not I did
Speaker 2: not expect, and I think I'm know because of the
Speaker 2: depravity or whoever was behind anyway, it's out there.
Speaker 1: This this episode has been the greatest add for trash
Speaker 1: reality television.
Speaker 2: Maybe ever.
Speaker 1: I'm about I guess we should ask the question like
Speaker 1: if Germany had access to trash television, like is the
Speaker 1: whole Third Reich avoided?
Speaker 2: Maybe well, we'll trash television save us or bring us
Speaker 2: our next president.
Speaker 1: That's right, Miles, where can people find you as their
Speaker 1: working media? You've been enjoying at Miles of Gray where
Speaker 1: they got at symbols.
Speaker 2: Find Jack and Iron a basketball podcast Miles and Jack
Speaker 2: got Mad Boosties. If you like trash realities, guess what
Speaker 2: check Sophia Alexander out on four to twenty Day Fiance
Speaker 2: where we talk about ninety day Fiance, which is also
Speaker 2: pretty garbage. And then if you like some true crimes,
Speaker 2: you can still catch me on The Good Thief talking
Speaker 2: about the Greek robin Hood and all that. I don't
Speaker 2: have a piece of media, but I've been watching the
Speaker 2: newest season of How To with John Wilson, and there
Speaker 2: was a couple of moments where I've been like wow, wow, wow,
Speaker 2: wow wow. Anyway, it's it's always an interesting show, so
Speaker 2: maybe check that out.
Speaker 1: A tweet I've been enjoying is actually Ben Rosen at
Speaker 1: Ben Underscore. Roseen tweeted John Wilson narrating the Zapruder film,
Speaker 1: so you decide to go for a drive, but not
Speaker 1: everyone thinks that's a good idea.
Speaker 2: Wow, dude, the delivery on that.
Speaker 1: And Pat Tobin retweeted an image so that I don't
Speaker 1: know who made this, but I think about it a lot,
Speaker 1: and it's a side by side the sky and scenic locations.
Speaker 1: It's just a blue sky the sky at grocery stores
Speaker 1: and it's like this gorgeous, dramatic cloud sunset which just
Speaker 1: resident like totally rang true to me. I've seen some
Speaker 1: of the greatest skies of my life doing the most boring,
Speaker 1: like mundane shit in my life and then you like
Speaker 1: go on vacation to someplace and it's just blue skys.
Speaker 1: So anyway, fuck blue skies, is what I'm saying. Wow,
Speaker 1: the shout out to grocery stores. You can find me
Speaker 1: on Twitter, Jack Underscore Obrian you can find us on
Speaker 1: Twitter at daily zeitgeist 're at the Daily Zeichgeist on Instagram.
Speaker 1: We have a Facebook fan page and a website, Daily
Speaker 1: Zeitgeist dot com, where we post our episodes and our
Speaker 1: footnote or link off to the information that we talked
Speaker 1: about in today's episode, as well as a song that
Speaker 1: we think you might enjoy. Miles Lit's song do you
Speaker 1: think people might just.
Speaker 2: You know, something nice get us into the week? This
Speaker 2: is George Ben j O R G E D E N.
Speaker 2: And this track is called Dominga's It's so dope. George
Speaker 2: Ben is one of my favorite Brazilian artists. I'll never
Speaker 2: I'll keep saying that every time someone asks me that.
Speaker 2: And his singing's fantastic, Like the beginning has like a
Speaker 2: really dope you know, like I feel like if I
Speaker 2: was sampling, i'd sample that first maybe twenty seconds. But anyway,
Speaker 2: Dominga's by George Benn.
Speaker 1: All right, we will link off to that in the footnotes.
Speaker 1: The Daily zeit Geist is the production of iHeartRadio. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 1: That's gonna do it for us this morning, back this
Speaker 1: afternoon to tell you what is trending, and we will
Speaker 1: talk to y'all that fight.
Speaker 2: Jay Horny