WEBVTT - Bonus: The Round Table 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:05.480 If you will place your left hand on the Bible 0:00:05.559 --> 0:00:08.920 and raise your right hand, and please repeat after me 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:13.440 and I do solemnly swear vent titled action. Find the 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:16.840 defendant guilty of the prime. It makes no sense, it 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:20.200 doesn't fit. If it doesn't fit, it must a quit. 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:22.840 We all took the same of of office. We're all 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:26.480 bound by that common commitment to support and defend the Constitution, 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:29.360 to bear true faith in allegiance to the same that 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:32.199 you faithfully discharge the duties of our office. Do you 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:35.600 solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:38.000 give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:41.640 but the truth. From Tenderfoot TV and I Heart Radio, 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:49.240 this is Sworn. I'm your host, Philip Holloway. Hi everyone, 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:53.040 Christina here, Welcome to the last bonus episode for this 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:56.080 season of Sworn. For the first part of the episode, 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:58.520 we're going to take you on an audio tour of 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:03.040 Phil's office, a cozy house shaped office in Marietta, Georgia, 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:06.360 before sitting down for a round table discussion with some 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.440 of the key staff of the Holloway Law Group. I 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:32.160 hope you enjoy, Ohsuy, I'll get to see you I 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:40.080 was just showing in your kids mostly tween my personal 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:42.959 office face. I don't think it really has much of 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:46.479 a rhyme nor reason to what's what's in here other than, 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:48.520 you know, basically the stuff that I need on a 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:52.160 day to day basis to to do my work. It's 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:54.840 important to give credit where it's due. My wife, Natalie, 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:58.160 who the listeners met in one of our earlier episodes, 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:02.200 she's basically my decorator in chief. She's actually in interior 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:05.080 design school now working on her master's in interior designs. 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:07.880 So she sort of helped me get this thing put together. 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:11.000 And it's nothing special for sure, but what she want 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:12.720 to do is have people, when they come in to 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:14.280 meet me, maybe for the first time, be able to 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:16.480 know a little bit about me and maybe my past. 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:19.480 So you see some family pictures here, things that you know, 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:21.680 say you know, I am a real human person with 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:24.760 a life outside of court and outside of podcasting and 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:29.359 other media. I've got my documents which proved that I'm 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:32.000 not lying when I said that I was in the military. 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:35.320 I've got admissions to the various courts, you know, in 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:37.760 this case, you've got the trial courts and the appellate 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:39.800 courts in Georgia. Of course, there's one on the wall 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:42.160 here somewhere that shows that I am in fact admitted 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:44.360 to the federal courts and in fact the U. S. 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:49.600 Supreme Court. We've got um my law school diploma which 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:53.120 proves that I'm actually a law school graduate until they 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.360 decided to rescind it. And I've got this globe on 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:59.040 my desk that gets a lot of comments that my 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:02.200 wife got from me on our first anniversary trip. We 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:07.240 were in Puerto Rico and she got really lucky playing roulette. 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:10.960 She took whatever she won from that one role of 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.520 the Roulette wheel and bought me that little globe there. 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:15.840 And the only reason it's really there that the true 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.600 reason is because it has to cover up a hole 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:22.200 for for power chords. So I really can't move that. 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:24.720 This is a small ship, and I may be the 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:26.640 captain of it, but I can't run it by myself. 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:29.600 I need another set of eyes, or in this case, 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:31.480 several sets of other eyes to make sure I don't 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:33.760 miss anything, because I know that from time to time 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:36.800 things can can get past me. So I need uh 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:40.160 some really talented people around me to help make sure 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:43.920 that we get it right. We're gonna go meet Stephanie, 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:48.640 she's our paralegal extraordinaire, and we'll meet Addison, who's another attorney. 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:54.120 That sounds great. This is our great paralegal, Stephanie. She 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:57.080 really is the person that keeps this train on the tracks. 0:03:58.040 --> 0:03:59.960 She actually was a student of mine when I talked 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:04.400 criminal justice at university here. She probably made very good 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:06.960 grades in my class. Although I don't specifically remember what 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:08.960 her grade was. I remember her as a as a 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:12.840 very good student. I think I gotta be. I was 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:17.360 working and going to school and it's very young so 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:20.760 making it through getting that degree. But I enjoyed his class. 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:24.640 He was a good teacher. After I took his class, 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:29.800 started working in the warrant Division midnight shift on the weekends. 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.880 While I was in school, I was pretty trime relice 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:37.000 officer for I worked at the jail and then making 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:40.240 decisions on if people should get out or not, and 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:44.279 then I supervised people that were out on bond, making 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.080 sure they were doing everything the judge ordered them to do. 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:50.560 I went from working the midnight shift to working at 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:54.200 the courthouse during the day, so now completely switch roles, 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:59.159 switched teams, working on this side. It's just it's it's 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:03.239 totally different. It's interesting to see it from both sides. 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:06.040 You know, if she had a Walleye since I'd be 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:08.040 happy to send her to court. Well almost anything that 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:11.640 we do. That's how much she knows about stuff. We 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:14.080 keep Addison down here in the basement where we can't 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:18.960 hurt anybody. Oh my goodness, is that that's a moose 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:22.560 as a moosehead that belongs to another the attorney who 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:24.919 owns this building. It's one of his trophies. You know. 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:29.360 It's as big as I am. This is my cave. 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:34.279 All I need is a computer or phone, and and 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:40.119 I am content. I was with Fulton County District Attorney's Office, 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:42.479 so I handled a lot of a lot of different 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:44.840 kinds of things. Was there a couple of years, and 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:48.520 it kind of reached my uh my wall, so to speak. 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:53.719 With the prosecution side. One of the biggest problems I 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:55.880 had was that you really don't have a lot of 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.680 say about what you think it might be the right 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:04.440 outcome for a k case. My interpretation of how I 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:07.919 think it should go is not in line with some 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:11.360 other people's interpretation of how it should go. So here 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:15.080 it's just a lot more freedom in a way, the 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:17.880 freedom to to say, here's how we're going to proceed 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:19.960 with this case because this is how we we think 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:22.480 it's the right way to go, or whether to take 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:25.680 the case at all. Just sometimes he just listening off 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:30.000 the leashes go And then that's what I like. If 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.560 I'm somewhere, Phil will step in and take care of 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:35.080 something that I worked down likewise too, so it's a 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:39.239 good give and take. Phil is in the driver's seat 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:42.279 almost every time regarding the case. But every case that 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:45.040 we have he has eyes on it, and I had 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:47.960 eyes on it. You're getting a lot of people looking 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:50.599 at issues and looking at different facts and seeing what 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.600 can be spotted. You know, when I say it's a 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:55.159 team effort, I mean I mean that it is. I 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:58.280 can't possibly do it by myself. It's just no way. 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:01.600 They're professionals, and I've got a trust them that they're 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:05.279 gonna comport themselves and conduct themselves as professionals. And they do. 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:07.440 And you know, like I said, we all have to 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:09.440 work together. We know that this is a team effort, 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:12.000 and without working together, we wouldn't be able to get 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:13.880 a whole hell of a lot done at least not 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:19.200 done well. So welcome guys to a special addition especial 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:21.200 episode of Sworn. I've always kind of wanted to do 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:24.800 a show like this. I'm joined here at the office 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:29.840 by Ms Stephanie are Paralegal extraordinaire, Mr Addison, who is 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:33.400 a great attorney that works here with me, Christina Dana, 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:38.160 our lead producer for Sworn, and Mr Mike, the man 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:40.840 behind the mike who makes all the sound stuff work. 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:44.320 How's it going, Mike? How's all right? So anyway, I 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:45.840 think what we'd like to do is just go ahead 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:48.480 and start off talking about maybe some things that we 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:52.680 have learned in our careers that maybe the public doesn't 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:56.480 understand about the practice of law or the criminal justice system. 0:07:56.560 --> 0:07:58.280 Christina is just gonna go and start us off with 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:00.440 some topics and then we'll just kind of jump off 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:02.840 from there and see where it goes. Yeah. So, I 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:07.880 guess my sort of broadest question topic is what kinds 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:10.480 of questions do you guys get the most, like at 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:13.720 parties or sort of when you're just interacting in your normal, 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:16.680 non lawyer daily life. What are the questions people try 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.400 to like hit you with. So I want to see 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:23.680 how Stephanie answers that, because she's a very experienced paralegal, 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:25.680 it's been around the criminal justice system a long time. 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:27.600 But she's not a lawyer, so I know what my 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:29.280 answer would be, but I want to hear what hers is. 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:34.679 People that know what I do usually ask me questions 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:37.240 about things that are going on in the news. If 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:40.480 we're dealing with cases like that. They also, of course 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:43.160 asked me about Phil they'll fill on TV the other day. 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:45.800 But a lot of people want to know if we're 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:48.400 involved with things that have been on the news recently. 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:52.520 Are you often involved in things related to the news. Yes, 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:56.320 we seem to attract cases that are in the media, 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:01.120 whether it's on TV, on social media, uh that's put 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.800 out by the local police departments, about new cases that 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:07.520 have happened, to arrests that have been made. We seem 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:10.280 to attract cases like that, So yes, a lot of 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:13.520 times we are what about you, Addison, what kind of 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:17.120 questions do you get? Pretty much the same about if 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:20.160 something hits the media, they'll they'll ask me a question 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:22.480 about what I think about it, even if really no 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:26.720 information is out about the case yet, And then inevitably 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:31.720 you'll get the well. My cousin's third wife got arrested 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:35.760 last week for this, I'd like your your expert opinion 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:39.120 about what we can do to help her out. Pretty much, 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:42.160 questions like that if something is familiar to them, whether 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:44.800 it's a family member who's in legal trouble or something 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:48.000 that's on the news, they like to get my input 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:50.000 about what I think about it, sort of like the 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:56.640 doctor take a look at my rash situation exactly exactly well, 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:58.719 And I get that too. And of course a lot 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.679 of times people are asking general questions about the law, 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:04.160 and I'll answer their questions as best I can. And 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:06.679 sometimes when it gets more personal, like you know, they 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:10.120 want specific legal advice, I'm thinking, Okay, this person maybe 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.840 there a physician, or maybe their car sales, and maybe 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:15.400 there's some way that they can repay me in kind 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:17.960 down the road when I need favors. I do my 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:20.079 best to try to to answer that. And I think 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:23.880 people are genuinely interested in the system and in law, 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:27.280 and and I think that the more accurately people are 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:29.920 educated than the better off everybody is. So I do 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:32.679 I do my best to to at least help people 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:36.160 understand the real justice system. The way that it really 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:38.240 is the way that I see it and these folks 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:40.679 see it on a day to day basis, which, as 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:46.280 we've learned throughout our podcasting experience here, is oftentimes not 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:48.400 the way people think it is based on what they 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:51.920 see on TV or at the movies. It's very, very different. 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.319 They'll ask me, they'll say, how do you represent these criminals? 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:59.000 And that's a very complex question because a they're not 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:01.800 all criminals, and even the ones that are, there's a 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:04.679 lot that needs to be done to make sure that 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.120 they get treated fairly. And so a lot of times 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:09.240 I'll ask the question back, well, you know what makes 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:12.280 you think they're criminals? And they'll I just assume because 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:15.640 I got arrested. Well have you ever heard that people 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.200 are presumed to be innocent? And they're like, oh, yeah, 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:21.480 I forgot about that. So I'll explain to them that 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:23.720 a large part of what we do is we help 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:28.560 people get treated fairly and we try to promote fair sentencing, 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:30.600 and that's a big piece of what we do is 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:34.559 fair sentencing negotiations. What is a fair sentence is oftentimes 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:37.239 in the eye of the beholder. But if you ask somebody, 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:40.760 are you against fair sentencing and nobody's gonna say yes 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:44.360 to that. Everybody is for and then there in favor 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.200 you know, of of fair sentencing, and they're forced to 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:49.120 think of it in that way, and then they get 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:52.440 a better and I think, more accurate picture of what 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:56.040 this is all about. What do you guys think is 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:59.000 one of the bigger misconceptions that people have about the 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:05.880 justice system. I think people jump to conclusions about cases 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:11.959 without actually doing any so called detective work to figure 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:15.360 out what's really going on in a case. They may 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:19.000 pass judgment very quickly. They only see the side of 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:21.839 the story that's been put out there. You know, it's 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.720 very rare to have a person that's actually been charged 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:27.040 with a major crime that's on the news to be 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:30.120 out there saying, hey, at it and do it. Usually 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:33.040 they're very quiet because their attorney has told them not to, 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:36.560 so you're only hearing one side of it, and people 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:40.760 just form an opinion, and you know, they want these 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:43.160 people to spend the rest of their lives in jail 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:46.679 or a very long time, and it's just not always 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:50.680 the right thing that should be done. A lot of people, 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.040 I want to say to them, not all people that 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:58.920 get arrested are bad people. Things could happen to any 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.320 of us. There are some cases that we have that 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.400 I sit there and think, sometimes this could have just 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:10.280 as easily have happened to me. And I know that 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:12.640 I am not a bad person, and I would not 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:14.959 want to go to jail for a very long time. 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:17.920 Nobody wants to go to jail. So people need a 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:22.080 good attorney to have their back and to give them 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:26.520 good representation. Right, piggyback and off what what Stephanie said. 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:28.880 I think that when I was a prosecutor, you read 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:33.040 words on papers, right, you have statutes that you're putting 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:36.160 down on an indictment. You're looking at maybe pictures or 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.400 police reports, and on this side of the fence, you're 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:43.120 you're actually talking to people who are charged, and that 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:46.600 means you're oftentimes talking with their families and and the 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:51.160 problems that a case is having is posing to them. 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:55.640 They have children, if if they're worried about immigrations, I mean, 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:57.920 whatever the case may be, there are dozens of things 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:00.040 that can impact them. And I never really consider of 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:03.000 that when I was prosecutor. I tried to, but I mean, 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:06.640 sometimes you just don't have the opportunity to, like Stephanie said, 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:08.920 there are good people who can do some bad things, 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:11.959 and there are good people who can make mistakes. And 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.960 every one of us has done that. And if someone 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:17.800 says they haven't, their lying could have the most self 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:20.880 righteous prosecutor defense attorney and they say otherwise, they're not 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.000 telling you the truth. And then the biggest rushes when 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:27.680 you know you're looking over a case file and you're like, wait, 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.040 this person didn't do it. This person is innocent of 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:35.600 what they're they're being charged with. That's a tremendous feeling. Addison, 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:38.280 when you were a prosecutor, did you ever conceive that 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:42.000 innocent people might be arrested? Absolutely? When I was a prosecutor, 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:44.560 I was a prosecutor in Illinois and Georgia. I'll talk 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:46.800 about the experience in Illinois is I would have a 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:48.320 lot of freedom to do what I wanted, and I 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:52.280 would actually toss cases if they filed the motion to suppressed. 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.680 Dismissed them on my own motion because I knew that 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:58.840 the Fourth Amendment was violated in a particular case. The 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.720 Fourth Amendment deals with a search and seizure. For example, 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:04.640 say it search is bad in a case and they 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:06.920 file a motion to get rid of the evidence. I 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.920 would dismiss cases if I didn't think it was a 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:13.760 constitutional stop or if something else was really really wrong 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.600 with that case, because the whole point is getting the 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:21.120 right result and not counting convictions. That's how I was trained. 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:23.840 You just have to have someone who wants to see 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:27.000 the right thing happened, and that interpretations can differ. But 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:30.200 that I think that's a big problem. Big thing that 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:32.000 a lot of people don't think about is that you 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:35.560 have some very very good prosecutors, very good on a prosecutors, 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:37.960 and then you have some and this goes both ways, 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:39.920 by the way, you know, defense side too, but then 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:43.840 you have people who are just notch convictions and sometimes 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:48.480 oftentimes the conviction is not the right result in some 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:50.480 of these cases. So that's the hurdle that we face 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.120 a lot. We talked about that on this season about 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:56.560 sort of what winning means. Having the sort of numerical 0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:00.280 tally of one cases and lost cases isn't necess certainly 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:05.640 indicative of what justice is, but it's more complicated than that. Absolutely. 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:07.720 I mean that that's the whole that's the whole point. 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:10.560 I mean, that's why you know sitting in constitutional law 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.800 in law school was so great because you've got to 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:16.280 see why we have the system in place and doing 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.240 everything you can to make sure someone is sitting in 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:21.800 a cage. I guess it's fine if you have the 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.840 evidence and it's it's constitutionally back. But if you don't 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.240 and you know you don't, that's a different story altogether. 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:30.520 And get all the front page headlines of this huge 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:32.880 conviction you get, but it doesn't mean anything if someone 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:35.560 else is still out there who did do it and 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:38.000 the person who didn't is sitting in a cage somewhere. 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.280 I'm not confining it to people who are innocent in 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.840 the crimes. I'm also including people who are asking for 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:48.440 punishments that don't fit the crime itself, and that's to 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:53.080 appear tough on crime. Maybe it's a media case and 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:55.160 a lot of times maybe they're getting pressure from their 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.280 higher ups to to do this. I mean that that's 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.600 often the case. Everyone should do the saying for the 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:04.320 right reasons, and that includes defense attorney, includes all attorneys. 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:24.000 One of the jobs I had with the local government 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:28.320 is I was supervising people there were out on bond 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:31.119 and we have to keep in mind. When I was 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:33.840 doing that job, the people that I was supervising had 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:37.280 not been convicted of anything, but yet they were having 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:40.800 to answer to me on a weekly basis. On a 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:45.080 daily basis, I got to know so many of them, 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:50.840 and I dealt with people that were charged from d wise, shoplifting, 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:57.240 child molestation, rape, arm robbery, all these different people, they're 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:01.760 still people. I remember one case supervising that was an 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.359 armed robbery case and a person and no prior record 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:10.680 made one mistake and he went to prison for ten 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:14.720 years to the door, and I remember, I just don't 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:20.600 feel like this is the right thing. He made one mistake, 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:26.720 he took responsibility for it, and because of what he 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:29.159 was charged with, he was going to go to prison 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:32.400 for a very long time and miss out on his family, 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:36.199 his children getting older. And at the same time, I 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:39.119 thought about how his victim felt. But you have to 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:42.080 look at both sides of it. I think some of 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:46.240 the things that have been spoken about are like mandatory minimums. 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:51.240 This was a young man that made one mistake against 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:57.840 someone that maybe made a continuous decision and committed a 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:02.120 crime that was maybe not violent. Um ends up getting probation. 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:05.480 But they've made that decision to commit that crime ten times, 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:09.200 twenty times, and they have a prior record. But because 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:14.200 their charge wasn't an arm robbery was something different, they 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:16.520 didn't have to go to prison, and they got to 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:19.720 see their family, you know, their kids get older, and 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:22.800 it just felt wrong to me. You have to make 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:26.680 sure you have to hold people accountable because if someone 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.680 isn't giving a person that's committing a crime their rights, 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:34.040 what makes you think that that officer prosecutor isn't going 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:37.120 to give you your rights. Because everybody has the same 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:40.399 rights and we have to we have to protect those rights, 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:46.159 and everybody deserves that. They deserve to have good representation, 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:49.280 and they deserve to be protected. That's such a good 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:52.400 point of like when we see things in the media 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:54.280 and we're like, oh, that was a bad person. They 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:58.920 deserved this, but something went unconstitutionally wrong. That could happen 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:01.800 to you too. If the system is broken, you're also 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:05.200 in that system. If you are driving down the road, 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:07.359 you could get pulled over and your car could be 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:10.600 illegally searched. What if something was in there that you 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:14.520 didn't know was in there? What if And I think 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:17.320 people a lot of times, well that would never happen 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:20.480 to me. You can never say what would ever happen 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:24.000 to you because there are so many variables. You could 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:27.320 be in the same situation. You could match a description 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:30.960 of someone that did something, or not even match it 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:33.840 and just there be a mistake in communication and you 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:36.359 get pulled over. There's so many things that can happen. 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:39.080 That's why it's so important. You know, when we get 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:42.119 these calls from people, they're calling you in a moment 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:45.080 of their life is probably wrought bottom for them and 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:47.679 they need help, and you have to think, what if 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:50.240 I was in that situation, I would want someone to 0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:53.840 help me. It's like some of the law enforcement officers 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:57.120 that you know I've represented over the years. A lot 0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:00.399 of these folks will sit in my office just be 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:03.400 just in tears because they're thinking, well, wait a minute, 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:05.240 I've been a you know, a cop all these years 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:08.040 and I didn't realize that innocent people can get arrested. 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:10.520 And then here they sit, They've been accused of something 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:13.359 and they're absolutely innocent, and they're just they're shocked, they 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:15.720 can't believe it. I'm like, well, you know, welcome to 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:19.080 my world. This happens, and unfortunately is happening to you. 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:22.000 So we're just gonna have to deal with it. Addison 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:25.520 had do you ever known anybody before you came to 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:28.840 work here who was innocent and accused of a serious 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:32.680 crime or no, not of anybody. Yeah, I've known. I've 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:36.000 known some people who were innocent and some crimes. It 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:38.359 goes back to my point. I mean a judge once 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:40.560 told me that that the most powerful person in the 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:44.159 courthouse is the district attorney. They had the charging decisions, 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:46.840 and they can decide how a case is going to proceed. 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:50.960 Not only can can someone be be innocent, but take 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:53.679 Stephanie's example about the arm robbery in Georgia, there's a 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:57.000 mandatory minimum ten years. Well, you know, all cases are different. 0:21:57.200 --> 0:21:59.120 What if you have a fifty five year old man 0:21:59.200 --> 0:22:02.520 who holds a like replica and gets ten dollars from 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:05.480 a gas station with no injuries. And someone else who 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:09.080 probably doesn't have a clean history, maybe he's been arrested five, six, 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:11.960 seven times and does rob a gas station for say, 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:15.280 threatens to shoot the person in the head. Each one 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.479 of those cases, the man is facing ten years in prison. Maybe, 0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:22.120 just maybe they should be treated differently, and you need 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:26.119 a prosecutor who is able to see the bigger picture 0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:30.840 what is best for everyone involved, including the person who's 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:34.000 being charged with the crime. Does putting someone with no 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:36.840 criminal history in prison for ten years where he's exposed 0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:40.000