1
00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:04,880
Speaker 1: Welcome back to a Numbers Game with Ryan Grodowsky. Thank

2
00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:06,720
Speaker 1: you for being here again. I hope everyone had a

3
00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,920
Speaker 1: very happy Thanksgiving. We are now in December, closing out

4
00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:13,039
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, which is kind of wild that it's

5
00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:15,159
Speaker 1: almost over. To twenty twenty five has felt like a

6
00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,440
Speaker 1: decade and a month in the same exact time. One

7
00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,880
Speaker 1: of the best parts of December that everyone enjoys is

8
00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:25,119
Speaker 1: that Spotify and Apple they get their annual streaming numbers

9
00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,160
Speaker 1: and you find out who your number one artists or

10
00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,320
Speaker 1: band was that you listened to the most, was your

11
00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:31,600
Speaker 1: number one song of the year. But you also get

12
00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:33,240
Speaker 1: to find out which is your number one podcast of

13
00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:35,440
Speaker 1: the year, and if it's not a Numbers Game of

14
00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:37,559
Speaker 1: Ryan Grodski, if that's not in your top five, I

15
00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,040
Speaker 1: hope that you like and subscribe to this podcast on Apple,

16
00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,240
Speaker 1: Spotify or YouTube or the iHeartRadio app, so that way

17
00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:45,239
Speaker 1: next year I might be in your top five. Think

18
00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,000
Speaker 1: about it. I would appreciate you. Your Christmas gift to

19
00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:50,520
Speaker 1: me would be subscribing if you have it yet. As

20
00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,320
Speaker 1: this year is coming to a close, I've been thinking

21
00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,960
Speaker 1: a lot about relationships one on many different levels. My

22
00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:01,440
Speaker 1: relationship with family, money, god, friends, having a work life balance.

23
00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,959
Speaker 1: I think that it's very important to be reflective at

24
00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,120
Speaker 1: this point of the year and saying to myself, how

25
00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,199
Speaker 1: am I doing making sure I can be the most

26
00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,320
Speaker 1: of a person I am with the time that I have,

27
00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:15,280
Speaker 1: get the most of a life, and achieve the most

28
00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,320
Speaker 1: that I have. I am at the beginning stages of

29
00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:19,280
Speaker 1: middle age, and I only have a certain amount of

30
00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,840
Speaker 1: time to do everything I want to do. And I

31
00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,480
Speaker 1: hear I've talked with a therapists about this. I know

32
00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,040
Speaker 1: this is not normal, but I hear the clock ticking

33
00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:28,840
Speaker 1: of every moment in my life of what do I

34
00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,319
Speaker 1: have left and what can I possibly do. I'm insanely meticulous,

35
00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,080
Speaker 1: but not wasting time, and it is how I've been

36
00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,840
Speaker 1: able to have a podcast and a pack and a

37
00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,280
Speaker 1: political work and a nonprofit and all the rest of it.

38
00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,800
Speaker 1: So at the very beginning of the year, what I

39
00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:46,560
Speaker 1: always do is I make a list of ten to

40
00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,320
Speaker 1: fifteen goals that I want to achieve this year. I

41
00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,200
Speaker 1: write them down to my day planner that I carry

42
00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,240
Speaker 1: with me everywhere, and then I don't look at it

43
00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:53,960
Speaker 1: for the entire year. And at the end of the year,

44
00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,400
Speaker 1: I look back and say, what did I achieve of this?

45
00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:58,440
Speaker 1: What is important to me? What's not important to me?

46
00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:00,840
Speaker 1: Because I will write some I'll be like, oh, I

47
00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,160
Speaker 1: want to write a nonfiction book about robots, and I

48
00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,200
Speaker 1: don't know why I think these things. I didn't say

49
00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,800
Speaker 1: that actual thing, but you know, something crazy that I

50
00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,680
Speaker 1: really no interest in. And I'll be like, this was

51
00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:13,399
Speaker 1: not a goal like this that I did not care.

52
00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,760
Speaker 1: And it's not a failure when you don't do everything,

53
00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,959
Speaker 1: because your priorities change and your time changes. And certainly

54
00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,000
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four meeting, I didn't say I want

55
00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,520
Speaker 1: to have a podcast, but I didn't. This show has

56
00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,160
Speaker 1: been so great and I've had a decent listenership and

57
00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,200
Speaker 1: people have responded and emailed, and I think that that's

58
00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:32,720
Speaker 1: a really important way to kind of close out the year.

59
00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,240
Speaker 1: And one of the things I've been thinking about, as

60
00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,960
Speaker 1: far as relationships goes, is how I've you know, I'm

61
00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,400
Speaker 1: I know, I'm low on the totem pole of conservative

62
00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:45,400
Speaker 1: quote unquote influencers or people with large public profiles, but

63
00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,800
Speaker 1: I'm on there. I mean I'm there, and I've managed

64
00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,399
Speaker 1: to very actively stay out of the quote unquote Republican

65
00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:53,239
Speaker 1: civil war, which is what I want to talk to

66
00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,080
Speaker 1: you guys about, because basically every talking head in the

67
00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,320
Speaker 1: conservative movement has had this come to Jesus moment where

68
00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,600
Speaker 1: they say, Wow, Trump isn't going to be around forever.

69
00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,400
Speaker 1: Where is this party going, Who's going to lead us?

70
00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:08,279
Speaker 1: What do we believe in? What's what's where's this endpoint?

71
00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,880
Speaker 1: And or where's this moving towards? And there are people

72
00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,080
Speaker 1: who really want the gooped to return to what it

73
00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,360
Speaker 1: was before Trump right. There are some people who want

74
00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,880
Speaker 1: to take the party into a more populous place than

75
00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:21,920
Speaker 1: it was before Trump. They want to find the way

76
00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,800
Speaker 1: that true populism should move. Some people are looking at

77
00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:30,799
Speaker 1: alternatives to Trump right, someone with more philosophical consistency, less drama,

78
00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,360
Speaker 1: who's maybe funny. I mean, good luck finding that that prize,

79
00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,520
Speaker 1: but I'm sure it maybe exists somewhere. I don't know.

80
00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,240
Speaker 1: And then there are some people who have been labeled

81
00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:41,640
Speaker 1: as being part of the right. I don't know if

82
00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,720
Speaker 1: they all are, who are using the moment to raise

83
00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:50,440
Speaker 1: their own personal profiles and to continue the gravy train

84
00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,000
Speaker 1: that Donald Trump has presented to conservative commentators. I think

85
00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,640
Speaker 1: people don't understand how much money some people have made

86
00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,560
Speaker 1: from being from telling Trump's supporters everything they want to

87
00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,960
Speaker 1: hear and trying to feed anxiety or hope or anything

88
00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,960
Speaker 1: to these voters. And unfortunately some of them are using

89
00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,520
Speaker 1: this moment and using this kind of open question of

90
00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:15,880
Speaker 1: who we are as a movement, where we're going as

91
00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:20,000
Speaker 1: a people, as an American public, to say some genuinely

92
00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,680
Speaker 1: anti Semitic points. And I want to be very clear

93
00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,400
Speaker 1: right now that not every criticism of Israel is anti semitic,

94
00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,360
Speaker 1: Not every or arguing over American foreign policies not anti semitic.

95
00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,040
Speaker 1: Criticizing bib Nitt, Yahoo is not anti semitic. Not even

96
00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,080
Speaker 1: conversations every conversation about the era, about the war between

97
00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,480
Speaker 1: Israel and Gaza was anti semitic. You can talk about

98
00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:46,360
Speaker 1: things and not be anti Semitic. However, you when certain people,

99
00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,200
Speaker 1: certain certain commentators who have been Lumpton as part of

100
00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,360
Speaker 1: the right, when they speak about Jewish people in a

101
00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:56,880
Speaker 1: dehumanizing way and decide that it's important in this moment

102
00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,520
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five to reference things that have happened

103
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,920
Speaker 1: almost one hundred years ago, like the Holocaust, and insists

104
00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,680
Speaker 1: that either it didn't happen, or that it was you know,

105
00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:08,880
Speaker 1: some commentators have platform people who said that it was

106
00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,880
Speaker 1: as a good thing, but a was a it was

107
00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:17,040
Speaker 1: the best option available, instead of really noticing and noting

108
00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:18,640
Speaker 1: if you have to talk about it, which you really

109
00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:20,280
Speaker 1: don't have to talk about it, but if you, if

110
00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,320
Speaker 1: you must talk about it, noting how horrible and cruel

111
00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,320
Speaker 1: and dark at that point of humanity was. There are

112
00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:30,480
Speaker 1: just some people in the commentary class who right now,

113
00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,360
Speaker 1: in this year, in this time, have said talking about

114
00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,200
Speaker 1: the horrors of World War two and talking about the

115
00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:41,239
Speaker 1: past is more important than talking about the future, talking

116
00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,720
Speaker 1: about AI and declining fertility rates and family formation and

117
00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,960
Speaker 1: inflation and you know, the amount of money we're going

118
00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:50,920
Speaker 1: to see transfer from the baby, but when we're in

119
00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:55,320
Speaker 1: silent generation to their children and how to ensure that

120
00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,720
Speaker 1: their kids can sit there and get you know, a

121
00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,280
Speaker 1: start to have a family and buy a house and

122
00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:07,240
Speaker 1: build wealth and generational value, having real conversations that are

123
00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,920
Speaker 1: very very important. No, they're not having it. They're talking

124
00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,320
Speaker 1: about World War II for some reason at a almost

125
00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:18,160
Speaker 1: insanely like it happens like every five minutes, Like there's

126
00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,599
Speaker 1: no like it's it's it's a lot of these conversations.

127
00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,800
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, they're just stupid. They re tarded, like there

128
00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:27,520
Speaker 1: is no useful reason, there's no foresight about having this,

129
00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,840
Speaker 1: there's no talking about the future and where we are going.

130
00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,240
Speaker 1: And the people who are doing that. Some of them

131
00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,039
Speaker 1: I know, smight, I don't know some of my like

132
00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:39,520
Speaker 1: as people. It's incredibly frustrating because it's all negative and

133
00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:44,040
Speaker 1: it doesn't lead to anything positive towards twenty twenty six,

134
00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,600
Speaker 1: towards where we're going both as a party and as

135
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,839
Speaker 1: a people, and what we should really be talking about.

136
00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,320
Speaker 1: A concernedive, I have to say, there's a lot of

137
00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:52,719
Speaker 1: things that keep me up at night. I have a

138
00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,400
Speaker 1: lot of anxieties. I'm completely unmedicated for all of them,

139
00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,760
Speaker 1: but I have a lot of anxieties. And the things

140
00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:03,280
Speaker 1: that keep me up around up don't involve global jewelry

141
00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:07,320
Speaker 1: or the Holocaust or I mean, they don't make my

142
00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:11,920
Speaker 1: top ten, top one hundred, top one thousand, and the

143
00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,000
Speaker 1: things that do, the things that are important are being

144
00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:19,080
Speaker 1: missed in this last year, the things that will affect

145
00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:23,040
Speaker 1: and shape our future. Those conversations are not even happening,

146
00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,520
Speaker 1: even though the country is moving forward on them, and

147
00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:32,320
Speaker 1: we as conservatives are missing out on navigating where those

148
00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,960
Speaker 1: that stuff should go, where those policies should go. Other

149
00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,680
Speaker 1: people are going to sit there and create the framework

150
00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:44,680
Speaker 1: mold our future because we're argument things that don't frankly

151
00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:50,640
Speaker 1: matter and make us look crazy, make us look anti semitic,

152
00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,400
Speaker 1: make us all look like we have a problem that

153
00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,640
Speaker 1: I think is completely completely made up just for people

154
00:07:57,760 --> 00:07:59,880
Speaker 1: who want to make sure that they continue to get

155
00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,640
Speaker 1: clicks all the time to feed either their bottom line

156
00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,040
Speaker 1: or their ego. And I want to just bring something

157
00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,800
Speaker 1: to the attention of young right wingers right now, mostly

158
00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,160
Speaker 1: young white men. I was one of you not so

159
00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,160
Speaker 1: long ago. I guess it's getting further and further by

160
00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,680
Speaker 1: the day. But those who look at the trends of

161
00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,480
Speaker 1: the world and say, wow, people who look like me

162
00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,880
Speaker 1: are being targeted for identity, and countries that my ancestors

163
00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,680
Speaker 1: built all over the world are increasingly turning against me.

164
00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,400
Speaker 1: And I'm worried about this. I am worried about the

165
00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,600
Speaker 1: way the world is working and the way that I'm

166
00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:35,560
Speaker 1: not going to have a future in it, and the

167
00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,160
Speaker 1: language that the left has used, especially against white people.

168
00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,880
Speaker 1: I get it. I fully and completely get it. I understand,

169
00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:43,560
Speaker 1: and you feel like the right doesn't speak to those

170
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,480
Speaker 1: issues well enough either. But to those who are too

171
00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,000
Speaker 1: young to have read enough history books or lived through

172
00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:53,760
Speaker 1: enough history, you're hearing a ton of noise, an absolute

173
00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:55,920
Speaker 1: ton of noise. And I have to tell you right now,

174
00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,839
Speaker 1: you do not need to look up to anyone who

175
00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,240
Speaker 1: praise is Hitler. You don't even have a private conversation

176
00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:03,840
Speaker 1: about it. You don't need a joke about it. You're

177
00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,440
Speaker 1: not being edgy, you're not being funny. You know, put

178
00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:08,960
Speaker 1: the Holocaust aside for a second, and it was horrific

179
00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,080
Speaker 1: and dark and terrible, But put that aside for a second.

180
00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,959
Speaker 1: Let's say you are one of these young men who say, wow,

181
00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:18,160
Speaker 1: the world that my ancestors built is completely gone, and

182
00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,839
Speaker 1: the identity of European Americans, of European people are being

183
00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,120
Speaker 1: wiped away by mass migration all the rest of it.

184
00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,000
Speaker 1: And I know you will have data to back it

185
00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:31,600
Speaker 1: up one hundred percent. You shouldn't praise the man who

186
00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:33,760
Speaker 1: or fit look up to the man, or look up

187
00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,040
Speaker 1: to anyone who's praising the man that caused a war

188
00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:40,240
Speaker 1: that killed fifty million Europeans. And if that war had

189
00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,839
Speaker 1: never happened, there probably be one hundred million, one hundred

190
00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:44,120
Speaker 1: I looked this up, one hundred and ten or one

191
00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,880
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty million more Europeans alive today had that

192
00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,760
Speaker 1: war never started, right, one hundred and twenty million more

193
00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,400
Speaker 1: Europeans alive today had World War two never happened, including

194
00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,680
Speaker 1: seventy five million in Eastern Europe in thirty to forty

195
00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,920
Speaker 1: million in Western Europe. Hitler was such a piece of

196
00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,400
Speaker 1: shit person, And I know that it seems like we're

197
00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:02,720
Speaker 1: done to like why are you while they're saying that

198
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,600
Speaker 1: everyone knows it, because it's as World War Two's living

199
00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,880
Speaker 1: history is going away as older people pass away and

200
00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,360
Speaker 1: the lived memories of those experiences go with them. People,

201
00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,400
Speaker 1: it's becoming a meme. It's becoming a joke. And I

202
00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,320
Speaker 1: get that at nine to eleven is the same thing.

203
00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,080
Speaker 1: Everything in history kind of is less attached to you

204
00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,440
Speaker 1: as you don't live through it. But I know you

205
00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:27,120
Speaker 1: may not have experienced that. I know you may not

206
00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,760
Speaker 1: have cared about this, but the ideas and the world

207
00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:36,080
Speaker 1: that you live in have manifested greatly because of those actions. Right,

208
00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:37,600
Speaker 1: you can understand and you can make fun of it.

209
00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,760
Speaker 1: But it's not worth ever praising someone like that. And

210
00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:42,800
Speaker 1: in this last year, so many young right wingers have

211
00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,040
Speaker 1: lost jobs, they've lost careers because they have sat there

212
00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,920
Speaker 1: and said, let's be edgy, let's be edged lords, let's

213
00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,400
Speaker 1: sit there and have some fun. Let's say Hitler was great.

214
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,959
Speaker 1: I'm giving you professional advice. I'm giving you life advice

215
00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,600
Speaker 1: as a man who's not that old but who has

216
00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,920
Speaker 1: walked through your shoes. You don't have to be like that.

217
00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:01,840
Speaker 1: You don't have to look up to this person, and

218
00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,160
Speaker 1: you shouldn't look up to anybody who sat there and

219
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,800
Speaker 1: praised him. They're all grifting, they're all lying to you

220
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:12,120
Speaker 1: right now, and they're leading you to profit themselves and

221
00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:16,080
Speaker 1: harm you because it doesn't matter to them if you

222
00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:18,559
Speaker 1: do well or not. And that's just the truth of

223
00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:20,280
Speaker 1: the matter. And I have to I wanted to bring

224
00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,559
Speaker 1: it up. I hate lecture. I'm not trying to lecture anybody.

225
00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,679
Speaker 1: I just I'm around a lot of younger people a

226
00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:30,240
Speaker 1: lot through work and through other things. And I always

227
00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,560
Speaker 1: say to myself, as somebody who lived in my early

228
00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:36,160
Speaker 1: twenties wanting to work in policies, really ambitious, really hungry

229
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:40,520
Speaker 1: for everything. I see so many people who are in

230
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,960
Speaker 1: those steps that I was in, who are being told

231
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,360
Speaker 1: information that will never help them get to a place

232
00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:51,640
Speaker 1: where I am. Not in a place where I am

233
00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:55,839
Speaker 1: but a good job, a stable life, a career. They're

234
00:11:55,880 --> 00:12:00,600
Speaker 1: turning you into ideas and thoughts that are not helpful

235
00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,800
Speaker 1: for you. And I always look out for especially people

236
00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,160
Speaker 1: who I relate to. As far as you know, they

237
00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,320
Speaker 1: walked in the shoots that I walked in. Anyway, Sorry,

238
00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:09,840
Speaker 1: go around tangent. I don't want to. I don't want

239
00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:11,160
Speaker 1: to sit there and make this whole lecture, but I

240
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,240
Speaker 1: have to sit there and say that in this point

241
00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,920
Speaker 1: because anyone telling you that Hitler was a good guy,

242
00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,120
Speaker 1: he wasn't, and they're turning you into astray. You don't

243
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,360
Speaker 1: look edgy, you don't look cool, you look like an idiot,

244
00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,439
Speaker 1: and it's gonna bite you in the ass. So if

245
00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,600
Speaker 1: you can learn anything from other people's experiences here, don't

246
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,600
Speaker 1: be that person. And also half of them are so

247
00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:32,760
Speaker 1: overweight they would never be able to survive, and Hitler's arn't.

248
00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:34,480
Speaker 1: I don't know where these overweight people think they would

249
00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,679
Speaker 1: survive in fascism. It's you say that because you've never

250
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,840
Speaker 1: lived in authoritarianism, like half of you would never survive

251
00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:44,600
Speaker 1: a single war, let alone, you know, Nazi training to camps, like,

252
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:46,880
Speaker 1: give me a break. Anyway, back to the Republican Civil War.

253
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,719
Speaker 1: Don't mean to go into a lecture, but I think

254
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,600
Speaker 1: there are some people who are having really legitimate arguments

255
00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:55,480
Speaker 1: about the future of the MAGA movement and how to

256
00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:57,760
Speaker 1: move it forward and what does that look like. Does

257
00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,400
Speaker 1: it does it exist after Trump? Does it exist in

258
00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:04,120
Speaker 1: three years? Some are arguing this because they want to

259
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,200
Speaker 1: stay relevant, but some people are really trying to have

260
00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,880
Speaker 1: good ideas, solid ideas about where the Trump experiment moves

261
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:14,439
Speaker 1: and what is the next evolution of it when he retires,

262
00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:16,360
Speaker 1: you know, and God willing lives a long life in

263
00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,000
Speaker 1: a happy life. I'm not you know, I'm not going

264
00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:20,880
Speaker 1: to name names on this fight in fighting, but I

265
00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:22,800
Speaker 1: think that I think I know you most you know

266
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:27,600
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. But I want to talk about

267
00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:32,040
Speaker 1: how you said understanding one, understanding the moment. Understand that

268
00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,400
Speaker 1: this chaos and this quote unquote Republican Civil War that

269
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:37,760
Speaker 1: has had a lot of my friends who are influencers

270
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,760
Speaker 1: feeling very kind of not conflict is not the right word,

271
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,640
Speaker 1: but very stressed about it's normal. Part of this is normal.

272
00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,280
Speaker 1: Part of what you're seeing is completely healthy, and it's

273
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:51,080
Speaker 1: been done before. Right, this is not new where the

274
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,160
Speaker 1: right or I'm proba sure the left, but I'm definitely

275
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,080
Speaker 1: on the right. Where we see our leaders changing, where

276
00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,280
Speaker 1: we see are the issues changing, and we don't know

277
00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,600
Speaker 1: where to go from it, and so people squabble, especially

278
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,360
Speaker 1: the commentary class. Even before the Internet, this was happening.

279
00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:09,360
Speaker 1: Here's the good news for everybody you know. And you

280
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,120
Speaker 1: may be sitting there like James d and Rebel without

281
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,080
Speaker 1: a cause or screaming you're tearing me apart. But here's

282
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,240
Speaker 1: the good news. There will be a way. There will

283
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,760
Speaker 1: be a forward, and it won't include a lot of

284
00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,600
Speaker 1: the ugliness. It won't include a lot of the anti semitism,

285
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,120
Speaker 1: and it won't include a lot of what the old

286
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,480
Speaker 1: old right is sitting there. The bush right wants to

287
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:29,400
Speaker 1: sit there and bring us back to We're going to

288
00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,120
Speaker 1: figure it out. But my next guest is probably the

289
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,760
Speaker 1: smartest person when it comes to the history of the right,

290
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,680
Speaker 1: the history of the conservative movement and this conflict that

291
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:42,240
Speaker 1: came before, and how it may help provide and navigate

292
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,480
Speaker 1: us into how it will sort itself out in the future.

293
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:51,440
Speaker 1: That's command Nick Staniel McCarthy is the editor of Modern

294
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,040
Speaker 1: Age Journal, and he's written for so many outlets. That's

295
00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,560
Speaker 1: sign in Funny, The New York Times, American Conservative, American

296
00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,960
Speaker 1: Mind first Things, just an overall brilliant, brilliant guy, Daniel McCarthy,

297
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:01,760
Speaker 1: Thank you for being here.

298
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:03,320
Speaker 2: Oh, thanks for having me on Ryn.

299
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,440
Speaker 1: So you wrote an article and I want to talk

300
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:08,920
Speaker 1: with two of your pieces, but one of the main

301
00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,280
Speaker 1: ones is for first things, it's called the right thirty

302
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:16,120
Speaker 1: year war, and you draw the comparison of how kind

303
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,440
Speaker 1: of the right wing is having an internal conflict now

304
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,440
Speaker 1: and comparing that to the nineties and what happened after

305
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,080
Speaker 1: the Cold War ended, because there was a real rift

306
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:27,960
Speaker 1: and I think part of the rift right now is

307
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,800
Speaker 1: the kind of coming to Jesus moment like Trump's not

308
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,120
Speaker 1: going to be around forever as the main central art

309
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,520
Speaker 1: to throwing together. Can you just can you expand on

310
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:36,280
Speaker 1: that which you wrote?

311
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, you know, if you go on social media,

312
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:43,000
Speaker 3: you'll often see conservatives of the baby boomer generation say,

313
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,640
Speaker 3: wouldn't it be great if Bill Buckley were still with us?

314
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,720
Speaker 3: He would be able to lay down the law on

315
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,240
Speaker 3: exactly what the limits of conservative discourse should be, and

316
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,640
Speaker 3: he would throw out anyone who was, you know, too

317
00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,320
Speaker 3: extreme on the right and would basically create a sense

318
00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,280
Speaker 3: of harmony and unity. And so I decided to go

319
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,360
Speaker 3: back and look at one of the sort of well

320
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,960
Speaker 3: known conflicts that Buckley was involved in in the late

321
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,080
Speaker 3: eighties and early nineteen nineties. So, just as the Cold

322
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,000
Speaker 3: War is wrapping up, you have this real conservative crack up,

323
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,800
Speaker 3: and actually it really starts, you know, even during the

324
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,600
Speaker 3: Reagan years. But then once Reagan leaves office, you have

325
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,040
Speaker 3: George H. W. Bush come in, and there's this real

326
00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:23,400
Speaker 3: question of whether Bush is carrying on the Reagan legacy.

327
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,040
Speaker 3: The Cold War is coming to an end, so there's

328
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,360
Speaker 3: the question of what happens to US foreign policy after this,

329
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:30,320
Speaker 3: and related to that, there's also the question of what

330
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,280
Speaker 3: happens to trade. You know, immigration is in the mix

331
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,120
Speaker 3: as well, And already in the late nineties you have

332
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,320
Speaker 3: a number of conservatives who are starting to question the

333
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,520
Speaker 3: sort of complacence that you find complacency you find in

334
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,680
Speaker 3: the conservative movement about things like immigration. So Chronicles magazine,

335
00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,160
Speaker 3: for example, comes out in nineteen eighty nine with an

336
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,440
Speaker 3: issue that says we really need to crack down on immigration,

337
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,440
Speaker 3: and that becomes quite scandalous Richard John Neuhouse, who eventually

338
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,960
Speaker 3: goes on to found the magazine First Things, he is

339
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,880
Speaker 3: an editor or is involved with the think tank that's

340
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,800
Speaker 3: publishing Chronicles, and he's outraged by this and says, well,

341
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,840
Speaker 3: we have to we have to banish these people who

342
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,840
Speaker 3: are criticizing mass immigration. They're racists, their xenophobes, their nativists.

343
00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,160
Speaker 3: So all these issues are bubbling up in the late

344
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,040
Speaker 3: nineteen eighties and early nineties, and then of course, you know,

345
00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:17,720
Speaker 3: foreign policy comes into a focus with the rush to war,

346
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,160
Speaker 3: with the with the rack and the Persian golf crisis,

347
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,920
Speaker 3: and Bill Buckley's called into this, and in the course

348
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,360
Speaker 3: of criticizing the idea that America is going to fight

349
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,680
Speaker 3: a war in the Middle East, Pat Buchanan goes on television,

350
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:31,840
Speaker 3: He goes on the McLaughlin Group and says a number

351
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:33,720
Speaker 3: of things that indicate that, you know, maybe this war

352
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:35,919
Speaker 3: is being pushed by people who have Israel's interests in

353
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,440
Speaker 3: mind and not America's interests, and that becomes a massive,

354
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,560
Speaker 3: massive media flap in the New York Times and elsewhere

355
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,119
Speaker 3: with these attacks on Buchanan calling him an anti Semite,

356
00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,600
Speaker 3: and so Bill Buckley gets called upon to adjudicate and

357
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,399
Speaker 3: to declare whether or not he thinks Pat Buchanan is

358
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:51,320
Speaker 3: an anti Semite.

359
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that. You know, the funny thing

360
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:57,840
Speaker 1: is is there's a young guy who I follow, who's,

361
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,760
Speaker 1: you know, a nice enough person. But the problem with

362
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,280
Speaker 1: like problem with most people is and they haven't haven't

363
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,760
Speaker 1: read enough. The problem with young people as they really

364
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,000
Speaker 1: haven't read enough, nor do they have like the living

365
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,239
Speaker 1: memory of anything. And Buckley has kind of become I'm

366
00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,640
Speaker 1: reading the Buckley biography right now, which is super long

367
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,199
Speaker 1: but very good. But the thing is Buckley has become

368
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:20,080
Speaker 1: a villain in the minds of a lot of MAGA

369
00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,480
Speaker 1: types who are super young, live on the Internet a lot,

370
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,680
Speaker 1: and they kind of show him in adversity to Pappy Cannon.

371
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,080
Speaker 1: But that wasn't that. I mean, they weren't closed, but

372
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,320
Speaker 1: that wasn't their relationship at all. And you write and

373
00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:33,720
Speaker 1: you know that he in nineteen ninety two endorsed Pat

374
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,160
Speaker 1: against George W. Bush in the New Hampshire primary.

375
00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:38,360
Speaker 2: That's right.

376
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,960
Speaker 3: So the real history is actually more interesting and more

377
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,960
Speaker 3: complicated than what the sort of mythology that's been retroactively constructed,

378
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,200
Speaker 3: what have you think? And it's ironic because both Buckley's

379
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,600
Speaker 3: some of Buckley's biggest fans and also some of his

380
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:51,560
Speaker 3: biggest critics.

381
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:53,880
Speaker 2: They both have a reason for endorsing.

382
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,679
Speaker 3: The myth of Buckley as the guy who's you know,

383
00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,359
Speaker 3: purging the right, the guy who is sort of leading

384
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,720
Speaker 3: what might be called the right wing version of cancel culture.

385
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,199
Speaker 3: The reason this myth gets established now midtally, there are

386
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,520
Speaker 3: episodes earlier in Buckley's career involving the John Birch Society

387
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,040
Speaker 3: and others where Buckley, you know, is criticizing various figures,

388
00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,119
Speaker 3: including the Birch Society itself and its founder, and you know,

389
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,240
Speaker 3: is playing this role of kind of drawing the lines.

390
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,199
Speaker 3: But what's interesting if you go back and look at

391
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,600
Speaker 3: the book that Buckley writes in nineteen ninety two called

392
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,159
Speaker 3: In Search of Anti Semitism, which is based on an

393
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,119
Speaker 3: essay he published in late nineteen ninety one on the

394
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,760
Speaker 3: same topic, and you see what Buckley's actually trying to

395
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,359
Speaker 3: do there. It's kind of clear that Buckley is being

396
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,760
Speaker 3: sort of pulled in two directions. So instead of being

397
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,680
Speaker 3: the decisive figure who's laying down the law for every

398
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,959
Speaker 3: conservative to follow, Buckley in fact feels that he's being

399
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 3: pulled in opposite directions by the neocons who are saying

400
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,040
Speaker 3: that Patrick Cannon is an anti Semite, you've got to

401
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,760
Speaker 3: denounce him, and by basically every other conservative who's saying, well, no,

402
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,040
Speaker 3: Pat Pricknn's not an anti Semite. Maybe he went too

403
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 3: far in what he said, but he's definitely not someone

404
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,760
Speaker 3: who hates Jews, and they're saying, you can't possibly, you know,

405
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,840
Speaker 3: consider denouncing Pat Mric Cannon over this. So there's already

406
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,520
Speaker 3: this and the great thing about Buckley's book, In Search

407
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,240
Speaker 3: of Anti Semitism, Buckley's own you know, material in there

408
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,119
Speaker 3: isn't of the highest order, of the highest caliber, I

409
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,000
Speaker 3: would say, but it has this wonderful collection of the

410
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,560
Speaker 3: correspondence that Buckley receives from it. So you have neo

411
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,880
Speaker 3: cons writing to him, you have paleo conservatives and others

412
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,680
Speaker 3: writing to him basically weighing in and giving their perspectives

413
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 3: on what's happening. And that's I think the most interesting

414
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,359
Speaker 3: part of the book. So Buckley has pulled in opposite directions,

415
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,760
Speaker 3: and he actually tries to like try to find a

416
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,440
Speaker 3: middle ground, which of course winds up satisfying no one

417
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 3: and leads to you know, a lot of the misunderstandings we.

418
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,000
Speaker 1: Have today typical. Yeah. I think that John Birch, Society

419
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,520
Speaker 1: Buckley coming out opposition them decades decades, and that a

420
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,719
Speaker 1: lot of that had to do with Eisenhower kind of

421
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,520
Speaker 1: created this myth that he was always doing that there's

422
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,040
Speaker 1: throughout his entire life, which she wasn't. And the most

423
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 1: depressing part of your piece from first thing as I

424
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:49,560
Speaker 1: was reading, was I mean, on one side, you have

425
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,400
Speaker 1: Buchanan and you have Norman, but you have Murray Rothbart

426
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 1: and Robert Novak, and then you have Henry Kissinger and

427
00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 1: Charles Krodhammer and Norman Darwitz, and they're these just jobs,

428
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,199
Speaker 1: these intellectual giants one after the other, really arguing of

429
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,080
Speaker 1: our ideas. And I think right now a lot of

430
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,159
Speaker 1: it is about personalities in a certain way. But I

431
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,640
Speaker 1: think that the overlapping of Reagan was leaving and the

432
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,880
Speaker 1: Cold War was changing, so we were losing. The Right

433
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 1: was losing its hero and its enemy at the same

434
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 1: exact time. And now at the same time, you have

435
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:23,240
Speaker 1: I guess the media is the end, but you don't

436
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,800
Speaker 1: have a commonality opposition that links people together. And Donald

437
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:29,960
Speaker 1: Trump is in his last term although it's the first year,

438
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:31,920
Speaker 1: was last term. We're closing the first year last term.

439
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:36,040
Speaker 1: But that VA can see that vacuum is where I

440
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 1: think the change happens. And although the neoconst I think

441
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 1: we're very successful about the nineties and two thousand certainly

442
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 1: of crafting the policies that generate America, I feel like

443
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,160
Speaker 1: right now they may feel like we're on the back

444
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,919
Speaker 1: bench on a number of issues, but let's put Israel

445
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 1: as the forefront because it's where we have the most

446
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 1: sympathy or most you know, I guess a currency with

447
00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:58,360
Speaker 1: the average Republican.

448
00:21:59,160 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 2: I think that's right. You know.

449
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 3: One of the problems is that success is sometimes its

450
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,159
Speaker 3: own punishment. So the whole point of the conservative movement

451
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,640
Speaker 3: for you know, decades was to elect someone like Ronald Reagan. Well,

452
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 3: they succeed, and then Ronald Reagan, you know, does guide

453
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 3: the Cold War to a successful conclusion. He does, you know,

454
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 3: at least bring down on non defense discretionary spending in

455
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 3: domestic politics, And while that's you know, perhaps not the

456
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 3: thing that people would most want to see in terms

457
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 3: of shrinking government, it is something and he you know,

458
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 3: keeps tax rates down as well. I mean, there's some

459
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,320
Speaker 3: taxes that go up, but he generally, you know, keeps

460
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 3: taxes on most Americans fairly low. So, you know, you

461
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,920
Speaker 3: have this fairly successful Reagan presidency. But then the question

462
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:38,719
Speaker 3: is where do you go from there, especially when you

463
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 3: have this complete change in the world security strategic environment

464
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,159
Speaker 3: with the end of the Cold War, which then you know,

465
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 3: it really does raise questions about economics as well. If

466
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 3: you think about Richard Nixon opening up the United States

467
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 3: to China, the whole point of that was to play

468
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 3: a Cold War card. It was to you know, make

469
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,360
Speaker 3: sure that you could break apart the Soviet Union and

470
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,879
Speaker 3: the communist China and communists China were economically involved with

471
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 3: the United States and the West in order to weaken

472
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,360
Speaker 3: the Soviet Union. Well, that succeeded, But then, of course,

473
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 3: once the Soviet Union is not a factor anymore, what

474
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 3: do you do. Do you continue pursuing integration with China

475
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 3: for its own sake in the hopes that that's going

476
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 3: to liberalize China or do you say, hey, now, this

477
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,640
Speaker 3: is actually strengthening the most powerful communist state that's still

478
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 3: around and the one that's perhaps the biggest threat all

479
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 3: across the board.

480
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:25,199
Speaker 2: You're quite right.

481
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 3: The neocons wind up being very successful in the early

482
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 3: nineties and really throughout the nineties and into the George W.

483
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 3: Bush years, and as a result, you on immigration, the

484
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,119
Speaker 3: right is very weak. When it comes to free trade.

485
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 3: The right is pursuing, you know, the Conservative movement, i

486
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,199
Speaker 3: should say, is pursuing integration with China. It's generally not

487
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 3: taking a hard line against China. And then, of course,

488
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 3: in foreign policy, the United States is getting involved in

489
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 3: all a number of foreign conflicts, especially in the Middle East.

490
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 3: So the neo conservatives wind up being successfully win everything,

491
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 3: and yet then they have to live up to, you know,

492
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 3: what they've promised.

493
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 2: Right, and when America see.

494
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 3: The results of what the neocon policy is delivering in

495
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 3: terms of our industrial base, in terms of our workforce,

496
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 3: in terms of mass immigration, and then also in terms

497
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,479
Speaker 3: of foreign policy, American voters say, this is awful, this

498
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,919
Speaker 3: is not what we want. So the neocons succeed, but

499
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,719
Speaker 3: then they have to live with the punishment of their

500
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 3: own success, which is showing everyone, showing the whole world

501
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 3: what their record actually looks like when it's put into practice.

502
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,679
Speaker 3: So now it's the turn of populace to have you know,

503
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 3: a share of power and to try to, you know,

504
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 3: do things the way we want them done. And people

505
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 3: will judge basically whether we're being successful or not. And

506
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 3: of course, you know, the Trump administration, it's doing some

507
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 3: great stuff, but also some things like Venezuela look pretty

508
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 3: questionable from a paleo conservative perspective.

509
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, and the big I think, the

510
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: big elephant in the room is the question of not

511
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 1: just the question of Israel, but the questioning of Jews

512
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: as a people entirely. There is there are legitimate conversations

513
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: over Israel happening, and then there are just anti Semitism,

514
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 1: and there is a difference between the two, and they

515
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: are being kind of mesh together. The transformation of young

516
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: people around the idea of Groper's or what that is

517
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: or you know who that is. You had a fascinating

518
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: peace in the American mind called defeating gropersm on a

519
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 1: conservative terms, and I thought it was so valid and

520
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: important because what the I think the response to the

521
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 1: rise of this genuine anti semitism has been is very outdated. Right.

522
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: It is like the Mark Levins of the world. I'm

523
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 1: trying not to name people's names, but like the Mark

524
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 1: Lebins of the world, who is no friend of mine,

525
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: and nor has I agree with him on most policy issues,

526
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: but he has his defense and his deflection of why

527
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: what you should do in your response or the rights

528
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: response should be wouldn't It doesn't work in the internet world,

529
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 1: and it doesn't work to the criticisms that are happening.

530
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: And I think that your opinion of it was very, very,

531
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,120
Speaker 1: very intelligent, and it's not just to sit there and

532
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: boil things down to a liberal response. Could you tell

533
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 1: the into that. Could you talk about that?

534
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 2: Yeah?

535
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,959
Speaker 3: So, I mean, you know, the right throughout the twentieth century,

536
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,640
Speaker 3: basically you had such an enormous amount of cultural dominance

537
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 3: by progressives and by left liberalism to the point where

538
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 3: the conservative movement was only like a half way rebellion

539
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 3: against it. Right, So the conservative movement says, well, we

540
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 3: don't like the economics of this left, and we don't

541
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 3: like some of what they're doing, you know, in terms

542
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 3: of states rights or in terms of you know, kind

543
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 3: of national civil rights bills or whatever suit. So the

544
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 3: right was talking about those things, and of course it

545
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 3: loses those battles, you know, over you know, questions of

546
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 3: civil rights and the Voting Rights Act and things like that.

547
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 3: So you wind up with a kind of shell shocked

548
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 3: American conservative movement in the late twentieth century and the

549
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 3: early twenty first century, which basically, you know, is trying

550
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 3: to prove that it doesn't have all the bad qualities

551
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 3: that the left is accusing it of being. So it's

552
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 3: going out of its way to show, you know, we're

553
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 3: not racist. You're the real racist, it says to the Democrats.

554
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 3: And you know, we're the most anti antisemitic people on

555
00:26:58,200 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 3: the planet.

556
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:00,719
Speaker 2: We love Israel more than any one else. We are.

557
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,959
Speaker 3: Therefore, look at how much we love the victim groups,

558
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 3: and you know we are don't call a suppressors, you know,

559
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 3: if anything, you know, we love you know, everyone who's

560
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 3: you know, you claim to be standing for more than

561
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 3: you do. And this is this is you know, it's

562
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 3: psychologically it's very interesting because this is like you know,

563
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 3: it's it's like a battered spouse syndrome or something. Right,

564
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 3: I mean, this is this is just the right overplaying

565
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 3: its hand and trying you know, to be more you know,

566
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 3: more Catholic than the Pope were in this case, more

567
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 3: progressive and liberal than Al Sharpton or something. Now you know,

568
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 3: obviously Sharpton has some some Israel problems, I imagine, but yeah,

569
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,360
Speaker 3: it will go beyond that, but more and more, more,

570
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 3: you know, sort of anti anti defamation than the ADL.

571
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 3: In the limited media environment of the late twentieth century

572
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 3: and early twenty first century.

573
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 2: Maybe that was fine.

574
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 3: But now you know, where people are free to you know,

575
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 3: kind of see just how clownish these people look when

576
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 3: they're making these arguments.

577
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:51,239
Speaker 2: It doesn't work at all.

578
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 3: And that's that's one of the things that feeds into

579
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 3: the Groyper movement because I think the Grouper movement and

580
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 3: Nick Fuentes, these guys poke fun at and satirize and

581
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 3: mercilessly mock this kind of attitude from the right, which

582
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 3: is this you know, sort of constant defensive crouch and

583
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 3: this constant attempt to show that they are more progressive

584
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 3: than the progressives. And and so I mean that that

585
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 3: whole thing is is a dead end. That is not

586
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 3: only a dead end, it's counterproductive because the more that

587
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 3: the center right tries to, you know, play that card,

588
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 3: the more ridiculous it looks in the eyes of younger

589
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 3: people on the right right, so.

590
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: They and just like add on to that point. It's

591
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: like in the two thousand and eight election to twenty

592
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 1: sixteen election when they were attacking Hillary for being too

593
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 1: hard on crime, and you're like, what are who are

594
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: these voters all of a sudden that are appealing to it?

595
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: And there are I would say that that worldview is

596
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: still a majority of members of Congress or centers. There's

597
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: a bill in the Defense Authorization Act which will force

598
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: suburbs to like take massive section and housing increases and

599
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: like because we you know, we have we don't have

600
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: enough opportunity zones and enough welfare programs for certain minority

601
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: po groups. And it's always about how do you appease

602
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: the people who vote against you at the cost of

603
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: the people who vote for you. And that's what the

604
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: right was doing. And that's why Donald Trump was such

605
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: a you know, shock, not necessarily on all his policies,

606
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: but at least in his rhetoric, a shock to the

607
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: guard rails. Let's see the bill crystals of the world

608
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: have you and you write and this is why I

609
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: think this piece was very, very thoughtful and thought provoking.

610
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: Is your solution to groperism. Not necessarily everything that everybody says,

611
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: because you could find something that's agree with almost anybody,

612
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: no matter where they are on political scale, but their

613
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: main contention, which is the true anti Semitism and dehumanization

614
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: of Jewish people, especially in the vitriol towards Israel. You right,

615
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: In recent centuries, liberalism has caused the West to lose

616
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: its sense of the duty. The universalists owes to the

617
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: particular Israel, however, reminds us of it. Just what does

618
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: that mean to the It's very eloquently written, what does

619
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: that mean to like the average person.

620
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I'll kind of start from a fairly

621
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 3: abstract position and then come down to something more concrete.

622
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 3: So in a lot of ways, progressive liberalism is an

623
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 3: attempt to secularize.

624
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 2: And replace Christianity.

625
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 3: And just as Christianity, you know, is a religion that

626
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 3: is universal and that you know, applies everywhere.

627
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 2: God, you know, loves all of mankind.

628
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 3: Liberalism has this view that you know, liberal institutions are

629
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 3: meant to serve the entire planet. If you say that, well,

630
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 3: no institutions like our own government, our own nation state,

631
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 3: are meant to serve us as a people and not

632
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 3: serve the entire you know, the liberal faith all around

633
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 3: the globe that is seen by liberals, by progressive liberals

634
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 3: as being it's a heresy. I mean, it's really a

635
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 3: terribly immoral thing for anyone to say in their eyes.

636
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 3: And so and this this, you know, a big part

637
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 3: of liberalism as it has evolved over the last century,

638
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 3: is this emphasis on this sort of two tiered humanity,

639
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 3: where you have the good part of humanity who are

640
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 3: victims and who have been oppressed, and the bad part

641
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 3: of humanity, who are like demons, you know, in the flesh,

642
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 3: who are the oppressors and are always the source of wickedness.

643
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 3: And so justice, you know, in this liberal mythology is

644
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 3: precisely raising up and empowering and even allowing the use

645
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,959
Speaker 3: of violence to those who are victims or oppressed, and

646
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 3: then tearing down those who are considered part of the

647
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 3: oppressor class. And you know, we can point to some

648
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 3: of the parallels this has with Marxism and its view

649
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 3: of economic class. But this is applying it to braces

650
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 3: and social groups, which is kind of ironic because of

651
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 3: course progresses insist that races, you know, far from their minds,

652
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 3: but it's not. I mean, race is really the core

653
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 3: of this. It's funny even to go.

654
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 1: Early construct it's all and it's just imagination exactly, but.

655
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 3: It's the construct that apparently determines who's a good person,

656
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 3: who's a bad person, who gets the law on their side,

657
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 3: and who gets you know, a knife in the neck.

658
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 3: So and this this critique of or this worldview that

659
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 3: depends on victims and oppressors. This is one of the

660
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 3: things that you see, you know, a lot of defenders

661
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 3: of Israel actually playing into because they'll say, hey, Israel

662
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,239
Speaker 3: is actually a victim. Jews, you know, historically have been

663
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 3: victims in reality, so you know, they should have a

664
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 3: victim class status and that means they should be part

665
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 3: of the top of the totem pole. And not only

666
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 3: in progressive rankings, but also those of conservatives who go

667
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 3: along with this, and that it just seems to me

668
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 3: is suicidal for Jews.

669
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 2: For Israel. It's just a terrible thing.

670
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 3: Overall, because of course, the left has long since decided

671
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 3: that no, Jews are actually oppressors. If you look at

672
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 3: what you know, left wing radicals in America say about

673
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 3: not just Israel, but Jews in general. They will go

674
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 3: along with you know, black radicals who want to say, hey,

675
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 3: you know, the Jews are stealing our rappers, you know,

676
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 3: revenue from the record companies, just the whole thing. And

677
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 3: there's a great Sopranos episode you probably know, it's all

678
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 3: about this.

679
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 2: And one of the.

680
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 3: Great things, you know, when the Sopranos was at its best,

681
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 3: it was able to touch on these topics that everybody

682
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 3: knows and that everyone talks about in these communities.

683
00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 2: But of course, you know.

684
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:03,719
Speaker 3: That generally are not openly admitted in polite television shows.

685
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 3: So anyway, the Jews are actually now positioned as an

686
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 3: oppressor group, and in fact, you know, because they'ren oppresser group,

687
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 3: but they are a small group and Israel is a

688
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 3: small country. So they're really a test case right now

689
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 3: for whether this ideology of assembling all the victims against

690
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 3: the oppressors can succeed in you know, really crushing an

691
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 3: oppressor group. In some ways, they're a test case, and

692
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 3: that that's one reason why it's very important to make

693
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 3: sure that that test case doesn't succeed where these progressives

694
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 3: are trying to attempt it. Now again, I'm not so

695
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 3: much talking about direct policies towards Israel, whether giving them

696
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 3: aid or not. I'm actually very critical of giving them,

697
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 3: you know, lots of American money, but just on principle,

698
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 3: the fact that Israel is based on a people staking

699
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 3: a claim to a land. They're saying, you know, this

700
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 3: is our land as a people. We have a you know,

701
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 3: religious reason as much as anything we're making this claim.

702
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 3: And basically, you know, we might like liberalism or democracy

703
00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 3: up to a point, but if those things ever come

704
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 3: out to conflict with our possession of our land, we

705
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 3: will reject those things. And that's what makes Israel a

706
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 3: very important country right now. And if you think about

707
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 3: how the same oppressor victim narrative is applied to the

708
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 3: United States as a supposedly settler colonial state, it's the

709
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 3: same thing on a much bigger scale. And we Americans

710
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 3: have to be prepared to say, you know what, maybe

711
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 3: trade is good up to a point, maybe you know,

712
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 3: we have a humanitarian concern for other people in various ways,

713
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,439
Speaker 3: but fundamentally, if liberalism or other ideologies from the left

714
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 3: are going to attack our position as a people who

715
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 3: has a possession of our land. If you claim that's unjust,

716
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 3: We're simply going to cut off our conversation. We're not

717
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 3: going to allow ourselves to be morally bullied by progressives

718
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 3: into having this sense of guilt about our land and

719
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 3: our people.

720
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: Right. And you know, it's so funny that some countries

721
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 1: which are quote unquote colonial colonizer countries like Brazil, which

722
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: is completely you know, a Madi country of Portuguese former

723
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 1: colonies and the kind she's half white, half Metsisos and black,

724
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: they don't have this kind of identity crisis that the

725
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: United States has. It's very strange how that how certain

726
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: countries are plagued with this. And I think part of

727
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: it is, you know, deeper anti Semitism, but also the

728
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: fact that Jews are considered white and whites are the

729
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,280
Speaker 1: ultimate enemy, and so for there is no escaping that parallel.

730
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: And I have a very good friend who is a

731
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: convert from being a liberal Jew to a conservative Jew,

732
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: and she always says, we just made all the wrong friends,

733
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, you picked a lot of the

734
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: wrong battles. You know, why have you? I don't have

735
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: any more questions about your articles, but you're just so

736
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 1: well thoughtful and read on everything. If you were talking

737
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,399
Speaker 1: to a young conservative and eighteen year old, twenty year

738
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,720
Speaker 1: old whatever, twenty two year old or someone just interested

739
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: in politics young, what are two or three sources that

740
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: they should go to that are that to you sit

741
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 1: there and say, this is really one of the more intelligent,

742
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: thought provoking, interesting things of what the basic principles and

743
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: the first Prince was of conservatism really are.

744
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 2: Well.

745
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 3: I do edit this journal of Modern Age which talks

746
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 3: about these issues, and you know, I think a young

747
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 3: person coming to Modern Age for the first time might

748
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 3: be a little perplexed because we'll talk about some of

749
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 3: these older issues as well, and we tap into our

750
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 3: archives which go all the way back to nineteen fifty seven.

751
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 3: But if they came to it on a regular basis,

752
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 3: they would actually find an interesting sort of conversation across

753
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 3: generations on the right, both from the new material we

754
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 3: publish the podcast that I do for Modern Age Everywhere,

755
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,399
Speaker 3: and also this older material from Russell Kirk and Richard

756
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 3: Weaver and others. By the way, they'd be interested to

757
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 3: find out. I think that many of these you know,

758
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 3: sort of old these conservatives, like I mean Russell Kirk,

759
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 3: for example, says in nineteen eighty nine, I think it

760
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 3: is that not seldom have certain neo conservatives mistake in

761
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 3: Tel Aviv for the capital of the United States. So

762
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 3: I think, you know, instead of you know, following the

763
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 3: groupers down to you know, means and just a nonsense,

764
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 3: you could actually ask yourself, well, why did Russell Kirk

765
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 3: say that? And what was going on here? And what

766
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 3: were the neo cons actually trying to get up to.

767
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: Back then you.

768
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 3: Could look at, you know, people like Richard Weaver and Robertisbet.

769
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 3: They also had very conservative views, very right wing views

770
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 3: that I think would still appeal to a lot of

771
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 3: younger a lot of the younger generation.

772
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 1: Yeah.

773
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 3: I can also say another source that I recommend is

774
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 3: Chronicles Magazine. So Chronicles was sort of the original paleo

775
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 3: conservative publication. It was involved in a lot of these

776
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 3: conflicts back in the late eighties and early nineties. And

777
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 3: today the editor of Chronicles is himself Jewish, It's Paul Gotfried,

778
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,720
Speaker 3: and so he's a good refutation both of these claims

779
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 3: that the Paleo's are anti Semitic, and he's got you know,

780
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 3: his own views which are quite i think well thought

781
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 3: through on Israel. I mean, he's pro Israel, but he's

782
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 3: not pro Neocon, and I think separating those things is

783
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 3: actually very important and Paul is a great example of that.

784
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 3: And then another magazine that I've been involved with for

785
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 3: a long time is, of course, The American Conservative, and

786
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 3: I know you've written there as well, and you know

787
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 3: that's a great magazine for you know, some pretty strong

788
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,760
Speaker 3: criticisms of US foreign policy across the board.

789
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 2: People are focusing right now.

790
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 3: You know, they get a lot of flak for what

791
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 3: they say about the Israel relationship, but they're also focusing

792
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 3: a lot on what's happening with Venezuela, and that I

793
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 3: think is.

794
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 2: That's where we're really being drawn.

795
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 3: Into, you know, a conflict that I think would be

796
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 3: you know, this this decade's Iraq war or this decade's

797
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 3: Libya crisis. So I think that's an important thing to

798
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 3: keep an eye on.

799
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 1: Yeah. I like Paul Godfrey's writing against just always when

800
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: he has a book at it's you know, thirteen thousand words,

801
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 1: thirteen thousand pages and you're like, I'm Paul, this is

802
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: a very this is too why I brow from me.

803
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: But Dane McCarthy, thank you so much for coming on

804
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: this podcast where people go to read more of your stuff.

805
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 3: Well, you can find my podcast and a lot of

806
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 3: my other work at Modern Age Journal dot com. So

807
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 3: that's Modern Age Journal dot com. And you can also

808
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 3: find my syndicated column. I write a column every week

809
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 3: for Creators Syndicate. The New York Post usually runs it,

810
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 3: and so I can be found there also on Chronicles,

811
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 3: and I write a fortnightly column for the Spectator World.

812
00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 3: So yeah, those are the places to find my writing.

813
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: And Daniel is one of the people on the New

814
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: York Times when they'll be like, how do this debate

815
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: performance go? And it's like seven cycle. Liberals been like

816
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,240
Speaker 1: I think Joe Biden look like the peak of health,

817
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: and Dmail's like, now he's in mental decline. Which I

818
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: always love watching your your reaction compared to, like, you know,

819
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: some of the very far left other commentators. So Dianel,

820
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: thank you for coming on this podcast. I appreciate it.

821
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 2: Thanks Royan.

822
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: Now it's time for Ask Me Anything. If you want

823
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: to be part of the ask Me Anything segment. Email

824
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: me Ryan at Numbers Game Podcast dot com. It's Ryan

825
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: at Numbers Plural Numbers Gamepodcast dot Com. I love you guys' emails.

826
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: I have a bunch is sitting in the doc right now,

827
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: so I will get to them and we'll have a well,

828
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,919
Speaker 1: maybe have a final end of the year episode where

829
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: I really go into all of them. I would do

830
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: a drinking game, but I've that would I've got so

831
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: few brain sales left to work with and I'm not

832
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: going to sit there and be able to drink through

833
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: a ask Me Anything segment, So but we'll have fun. Well,

834
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to get through as many as possible for

835
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: the end of the year and make sure we close

836
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,720
Speaker 1: up and start twenty twenty six fresh. This question comes

837
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: from John from Connecticut, John vmailman before and he says,

838
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: thanks for answering my primary question on Desanta's prospects going forward.

839
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: Is this only realistic path to the presidency to have

840
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: JD lose in twenty twenty eight and then run in

841
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: twenty thirty two, And any thoughts on the Atlas poll

842
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,919
Speaker 1: that had a ten point two of a ten point

843
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: two four that said Sears was the within one point.

844
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,479
Speaker 1: I would say on October twenty fourth that said Sears

845
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 1: within one point and Mers was going to win by seven. Okay,

846
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 1: so first on the poll, Yeah, Alice had a great

847
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: year last year and I didn't have this year. Good

848
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 1: this year and good, good numbers this year. And I

849
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 1: think that part of the problem with a lot of

850
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: pollsters is they're building universes of who they expect to

851
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,879
Speaker 1: turn out. And I think that for Atlas, they were

852
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: probably over sampling Republicans, Republican independence, or people who just

853
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: didn't show up. Now, Virginia had a huge turnout, so

854
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 1: what my guess is that they didn't have enough low

855
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:55,760
Speaker 1: propensity Democrats who would show up kind of put into

856
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: the numbers, and how they waited them kind of just

857
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: didn't work out. I mean, and it happens with all polsters.

858
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,879
Speaker 1: So if it happens year after year after year after year,

859
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: you're goin to put those polsters inside and say this is,

860
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: you know, garbage. But if it happens once in a

861
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 1: ballo moon, everyone gets them wrong sometimes, so I'm not

862
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: going to hold them to it. Atlas is a fairly

863
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: new firm and they've had a lot of big wins

864
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 1: so I want to sit there and give them more

865
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 1: time to see their record before I judge them as

866
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: a good polster a bad polster. And I've emailed them

867
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: so many times that's come to the podcast. I would

868
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: love to have them and talk about there the way

869
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 1: they do polls. Okay and Desantas. I want you to

870
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: remember nineteen sixty may not have been alive. I wasn't,

871
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: but in nineteen sixty there was a very close presidential

872
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 1: election between John F. Kennedy and Richard Nixon, and Nixon

873
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: goes on to lose by a smidge In nineteen sixty four,

874
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:48,399
Speaker 1: Nixon sits out of that election for Barry gold Wars

875
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 1: nominee goes down in Flames but Goal. But Nixon actually

876
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: campaigned harder for goal War than anybody did. Nixon was

877
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 1: completely still on the ticket. He was like, I'm going

878
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 1: to campaign for my party. Go Water loses I think

879
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,479
Speaker 1: all but six states or seven states, the Deep South

880
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 1: in Arizona, and then we go to sixty eight and

881
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: Nixon goes on to win. He runs again, wins after

882
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 1: this long break, and then he goes on to have

883
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: this landslide forty nine state victory in nineteen seventy two.

884
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: I think if I was consulting to Santas, which I'm not,

885
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: I would sit there and say, you know, build your

886
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: coffers up, for your packs, and hit the ground running

887
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: across the country and be on the team. And if jd.

888
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 1: Vance is the nominee or Mark Rubya's nominee, whoever's nominee,

889
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: hit the ground running for them. Can't pagn harder for

890
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: them than anybody else. You could possibly imagine, like make

891
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 1: that your full time job to be part of the

892
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: party and build that loyalty back up, because that loyalty,

893
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: you know, some residual loyalty is there with the average

894
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: Joe Republican who remembers Covid and all the great things

895
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 1: to Santas has done as governor besides Covid, I mean

896
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: Covid it was only the biggest part of his governorship,

897
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,359
Speaker 1: but it when you look at all all the things

898
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: he's done, it's really a footnote. I mean, he's done amazing,

899
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: amazing things in Florida. Finish out your term strong, be

900
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: the biggest campaigner for the Republican Party across the country,

901
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: go to every swing state, raise money for them. Bill

902
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,839
Speaker 1: Loyalty Show your part of the team. Campaign for who's

903
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 1: ever the nominee for president in twenty twenty eight, and

904
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,720
Speaker 1: then if they lose in twenty thirty two, take another

905
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: look at it. Go on television and remind voters I am,

906
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,800
Speaker 1: you know, the advocate. I'm the guy who turned Florida

907
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 1: into the deepest red state possible, and I think that

908
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: that is I think that would be the game plan

909
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: if he doesn't run in twenty twenty eight, which I

910
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 1: think he probably shouldn't, and if he still if the

911
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,919
Speaker 1: Republicans win in twenty twenty eight and twenty thirty two

912
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: comes around at that point, call a day. Like history

913
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,240
Speaker 1: is littered with men who would have made great presidents.

914
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: It is what it is. You don't win, and running

915
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: for office is like a window, and sometimes when it shuts,

916
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: it shuts for good. Ask Chris Christy right, he had

917
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: a chance in twenty twelve, and that was his only chance,

918
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,359
Speaker 1: Santa's unless Trump would have made him as VP, which

919
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four, which is no telling he would have.

920
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: Unless he would have, then probably twenty twenty four was

921
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: the only time he could ran for president, and if

922
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 1: he didn't win, he didn't win. It happens, so happens

923
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: to the best of them anyway. Thank you for listening

924
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 1: to this episode of the podcast. I hope you like it.

925
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 1: Please like and subscribe in the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, YouTube,

926
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, and I will see you

927
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 1: guys on Thursday.