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Speaker 1: Hi, this is Annie, and this is Bridget, and you're

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Speaker 1: listening to stuff mom never told you. And today we

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Speaker 1: are talking about cosmetic surgery and we're gonna put it

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Speaker 1: under the knife and talk about some history from current

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Speaker 1: events and social issues. I see what you did there

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Speaker 1: under the knife. Very nice. I in a in another life.

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Speaker 1: I'm a comedian. I know it. I'm a very bad comedian,

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Speaker 1: but I am a comedian. Um, and I wanted to

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Speaker 1: start off with a personal anecdote. UM, I have. I

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Speaker 1: have a relative. Every year for my birthday, she sends

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Speaker 1: me what I call the the gift equivalent of a

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Speaker 1: backhanded compliment, kind of extreme. UM. When I was nine,

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Speaker 1: she sent me two hundred dollars, which is really exciting,

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Speaker 1: but it came with a note that said, better start

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Speaker 1: saving up for that nose job. Now. Wow. UM. When

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Speaker 1: you told me that you had an anecdote that you

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Speaker 1: wanted to share to open the episode, I assumed that

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Speaker 1: you meant, Oh, my relative said this all handed thing

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Speaker 1: in passing about you know about my appearance that gave

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Speaker 1: me a complex. This is like an intentional, unintentional thing

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Speaker 1: meant to him give you a complex. I think I agree.

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Speaker 1: I thought about it a lot because I thought and

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Speaker 1: do still think it was funny. But when I tell

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Speaker 1: the story, I never get the reaction I am anticipating,

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Speaker 1: which is laughter. Most people just look at me like,

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Speaker 1: oh you poor dear. I am looking at you like,

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Speaker 1: oh you poor dear. Yes, I can confirm, can confirm.

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Speaker 1: A lot of you have written in requesting this topic,

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Speaker 1: and it is a topic that raises a lot of questions,

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Speaker 1: whether they're about feminism or racism, or religion or culture.

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Speaker 1: And the history of cosmetic surgery is not a pretty one.

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Speaker 1: There's war, there's disease, there is racism. But before we

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Speaker 1: get into that, we're going to do an overview, and

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Speaker 1: first off, we have to say there are medical reasons

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Speaker 1: like cleft flip and cleft palate and comfort reasons to

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Speaker 1: get plastic or reconstructive surgery. Breast reduction is a good example. Um,

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Speaker 1: But today we are focusing on cosmetic surgery for purely

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Speaker 1: aesthetic reasons and we're not here to make anyone feel guilty.

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Speaker 1: I have friends that have gotten cosmetic surgery and they

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Speaker 1: tell me it really boosted their confidence. And part of

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Speaker 1: me is really glad, and another part is like, I

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Speaker 1: really wish you didn't feel like you needed to look

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Speaker 1: a certain way to boost your confidence, because it is

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Speaker 1: really idealized standard that we're going forward. It's around on

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Speaker 1: sentence because my feelings around this are complicated. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: have similarly complicated feelings. Um. Even though I think of

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Speaker 1: myself as this confident feminist woman, I've all I've always

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Speaker 1: wanted plastic surgery. Um, when I was in high school,

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Speaker 1: I want I It's like the girl who was saving

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Speaker 1: up money for a boob jog because I wanted a

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Speaker 1: boomtop so badly when I was younger. Um. And what's

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Speaker 1: funny is that, UM, my family, all the women in

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Speaker 1: my family have a very specific body type, and that

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Speaker 1: is really large breasts and then kind of like big

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Speaker 1: like shapely bottoms like we are we are. If you

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Speaker 1: saw all of my family in the lineup, you would say,

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Speaker 1: those are women that are related to each other. And

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Speaker 1: my mom has huge breasts. She had a breast production

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Speaker 1: surgery when I was in high school that was completely

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Speaker 1: life changing. Um. She the amount of money that this

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Speaker 1: woman would spend, Um, you know, specialized bras was just

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Speaker 1: through the roof. But I'll never forget like wanting so

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Speaker 1: badly to be the body type that the rest of

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Speaker 1: the women and my family were, and my mom was

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Speaker 1: this is a an antecote that say with me. When

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Speaker 1: my mom was getting her breast production surgery, her surgeon

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Speaker 1: looked at me and was like, oh, are you her daughter?

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Speaker 1: And I said yes, and he said, come back and

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Speaker 1: see me in a few years when you when I

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Speaker 1: get yours added on because I was I was so

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Speaker 1: flats tested. I was like, fourteen, What a thing to

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Speaker 1: say to a fourteen year old. I think he was

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Speaker 1: just thinking of it as a surgeon, right, But so yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just want I say that because I don't I

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Speaker 1: really really don't want anyone to think that we are

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Speaker 1: suggesting that you if you want to augment your looks

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Speaker 1: for any reason, whether it's for comfort because you know,

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Speaker 1: back issues from large breasts, or because you want you know,

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Speaker 1: you feel like you'd be more confident with bigger breasts,

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Speaker 1: a smaller nose, you know, a different kind of chin. Whatever. Um.

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Speaker 1: I don't want anyone to think that we're saying you

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Speaker 1: can't be a good feminist and like have fake boobs,

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Speaker 1: because I'm not saying that. And I wanted fake boobs

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Speaker 1: for a very long time. And it wasn't until I

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Speaker 1: realized that when you have bigger boobs you actually have

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Speaker 1: to spend a lot of money on bras sometimes that

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Speaker 1: I sort of was like, oh, well that actually doesn't

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Speaker 1: sound very fun um. But yeah, I am not judging

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Speaker 1: what anyone has done. You know, it gets like body autonomy,

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Speaker 1: it's your body. Yeah, we're not looking to sound judgmental

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Speaker 1: for sure. And there is an old Sminty blog post

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Speaker 1: that previous host Kristen wrote called Canned Plastic Surgery Stop Bullying.

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Speaker 1: That's worth a read and it touches on a lot

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Speaker 1: of what we're going to talk about. But before we

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Speaker 1: get started, let's let's talk about the difference between cosmetic

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Speaker 1: and plastic surgery. As part of their training, plastic surgeons

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Speaker 1: have to complete one and fifty cosmetic surgeries along with

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Speaker 1: training for surgeries that are reconstructive. Cosmetic surgeons, on the

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Speaker 1: other hand, have to complete three hundred cosmetic surgeries to

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Speaker 1: get board certification, and cosmetic surgeries are focused on appearance

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Speaker 1: enhancement and they are considered elective here in the United States,

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Speaker 1: most cosmetic surgeries aren't covered by insurance and unless it's

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Speaker 1: something that causes discomfort, like eyelids that impair vision, or

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Speaker 1: rhinoplasty for hindered breathing. Um. Those those are two good examples.

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Speaker 1: And because plastic surgery is so common these days, it's

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Speaker 1: actually gotten a lot safer and the cost has gone down.

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Speaker 1: Also the recovery of time, like you need less time

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Speaker 1: to recover. When my mom got her breast production surgery,

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Speaker 1: she was out of commission for several weeks. I don't

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Speaker 1: know that would still be the case today because of that,

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Speaker 1: though the number of people who are getting surgery for

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Speaker 1: purely aesthetic reasons has been steadily increasing. Um and again,

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Speaker 1: even though it's better that it's safer and cost less

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Speaker 1: and it's more affordable and the recovery time is less,

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Speaker 1: let's be real. These are still surgeries. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: always gonna be danger involved, but they have become a

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Speaker 1: lot more common and a lot more safe. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: much so that they are even reality TV shows based

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Speaker 1: on transformative surgeries, like Extreme Makeover, which I thought was

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Speaker 1: about houses. I was gonna say, let me guess you did.

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Speaker 1: You did not. You were not a consumer of that

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Speaker 1: particular brand of media I had. I had a said

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Speaker 1: you got that feeling about me. Yeah, I definitely thought

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Speaker 1: that was about houses. Um. And this type of entertainment

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Speaker 1: actually isn't new. In when the New York Daily Mirror

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Speaker 1: ran an ad in search of the quote Homeliest Girl

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Speaker 1: in New York with promises that a cosmetic surgeon would

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Speaker 1: make a beauty out of the winner. I say heavy quotes, Um,

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Speaker 1: never fear embarrassment. The ad reassured upon publication of their pictures,

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Speaker 1: masks would be painted over their faces. So Jesus, that's

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Speaker 1: like that show that used to be on Fox, The Swan,

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Speaker 1: which I'm sure you did not remember, but basically, I

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Speaker 1: mean you could. It's the same. It's like the same premise. Um.

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Speaker 1: Also maybe like a little meaner almost, because it was

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Speaker 1: women who were supposed to be not desirable look or like,

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Speaker 1: not conventionally attractive, and they would get all this like

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Speaker 1: work done on themselves and then at the ad it

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Speaker 1: will be revealed supposed to be ugly duckling and then

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Speaker 1: the Swan. I just think those shows are so it's

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Speaker 1: almost grotesque, do you know what I mean? Oh? Absolutely one.

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Speaker 1: I'm disappointed wasn't about a swan. Just like with melodramatic music,

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Speaker 1: trying to maybe narration in the background. Um, and to you.

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Speaker 1: I have some friends that I stayed with last weekend

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Speaker 1: that definitely consume a lot of reality TV where she's

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Speaker 1: not referring She's not referring to me, by the way,

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Speaker 1: but it's not me. Um. But they were watching a

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Speaker 1: show about about models and I it. It really put

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Speaker 1: like a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach.

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Speaker 1: Um watching it. It was not entertaining for me at all.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like shows like this Swan would would

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Speaker 1: do the same thing if I watched it. Yeah, they're

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Speaker 1: actually I mean, honestly, some are more grotesque than others.

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Speaker 1: To come to mind, I'm an expert on reality TV,

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Speaker 1: so it's just a niche thing that I know quite

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Speaker 1: a bit about. Um. One that comes to mind is

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Speaker 1: the show on I Think Oxygen where it's the Beauty

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Speaker 1: the Child Beauty pageant Honey Boo Boo. Basically her mom

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Speaker 1: is Mama June, and Mama June had you know, when

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Speaker 1: Honey Boo Boo was becoming a famous figure or whatever

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Speaker 1: on the In the pageant scene, they had this kind

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Speaker 1: of weird um situation where it turned out that Mama

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Speaker 1: June had been dating like a convicted UM sex criminal

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Speaker 1: and everyone was like it was like it was like

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Speaker 1: a pedophile. And so the show went off the air

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Speaker 1: and then they rebooted it as a show about Mama June,

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Speaker 1: who was a heavier woman and you know, not someone

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Speaker 1: who was conventionally attractive. UM. The show rebooted as UM

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Speaker 1: called from Hot or from not too Hot, and so

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Speaker 1: it was her getting classic surgery, you know, getting liposuction,

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Speaker 1: all of this, and it this was like a really

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Speaker 1: grotesque side show that had these really troubling roots because

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day, like this is a

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Speaker 1: family that you know, like the whole the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: This really drove home the side show aspect to the

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Speaker 1: shows that you're talking about. Another shows Botched, for the

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Speaker 1: whole point of the show is people who got bad

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Speaker 1: plastic surgery, like people who for lack of the better word,

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Speaker 1: we're botched like they they and showing showing the bad

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Speaker 1: plastic surgeries, like the plastic surgeries where you know, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't look good and they look really grotesque. It's it's

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Speaker 1: just a weird It's like it's like a modern day

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Speaker 1: side show. I guess that's what I'm saying like like

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Speaker 1: a freak show or something. Yeah, it's it's strange. UM.

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Speaker 1: Aside from shows like that, the cosmic surgery is a

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Speaker 1: big business. UM. Americans spent more than sixteen billion dollars

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Speaker 1: on cosmetic surgeries and minimally invasive procedures like botox in.

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Speaker 1: Women make up eighty six of procedures, but of cosmetic

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Speaker 1: surgeons are male. Wow. And if we're talking about the

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Speaker 1: surgery that I wanted all through high school, breast implants,

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Speaker 1: nearly one out of every two hundred and fifty American

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Speaker 1: women got implants in, which comes out to about six

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Speaker 1: twenty seven thousand fake boobs. That same year, according to

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Speaker 1: the American Society of Plastic Surgeons, fifteen point nine million

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Speaker 1: cosmetic procedures were performed in the United States, and that

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Speaker 1: is up one d and fifteen percent since the year

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Speaker 1: two thousand. In that same time range from two thousand

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Speaker 1: to breast lifts have increased buttocks lifts two d two percent,

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Speaker 1: lower body lifts three thousand, nine hundred seventy three an

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Speaker 1: upper arm lifts four thousand, nine fifty six percent. Fun

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Speaker 1: side note, maybe I have a friend who called she's

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Speaker 1: very Southern, and she calls like arm fat high Helen's,

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Speaker 1: because when your arm like hi Helen, that's when it

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Speaker 1: will jiggle. Oh oh, I see, I see it. You

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Speaker 1: guys can't see me, but I'm waving and they're they're

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Speaker 1: going my high Helen's, Hi Helen. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: that's the Southern thing or not, but it sounds very

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Speaker 1: Southern to me. Is also known among the biz as

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Speaker 1: the Year of the Rear, with estimates putting the average

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Speaker 1: at one button implant every thirty minutes of every day

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Speaker 1: that year. Wow, that is a lot of booty. It's

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Speaker 1: a lot of booty. The top five procedures in were

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Speaker 1: breast augmentation, LiPo section, nose reshaping, islet surgery, and the

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Speaker 1: tummy tech. And I found this really interesting speaking about

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Speaker 1: those sort of minimally invasive procedures. The top five of

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Speaker 1: those were botox, soft tissue fillers, chemical peels, laser hair removals,

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Speaker 1: and micro demebration, which I guess I didn't even really

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Speaker 1: think about as cosmetic surgery, but I guess they are. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I kind of hadn't put that in the same bucket either.

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Speaker 1: Like we said in our Bad Sex episode, Lady, a

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Speaker 1: plasty increased the most in up from an Americans account,

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Speaker 1: with the largest portion of cosmetic surgery procedures worldwide at

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Speaker 1: eight percent. This is according to the International Society of

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Speaker 1: Aesthetic Plastic Surgery in Brazil is a closed second with

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Speaker 1: about eleven percent, followed by Japan, Italy and Mexico. But

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Speaker 1: and I found this really interesting. The top spot might

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Speaker 1: should go to South Korea, sometimes called the plastic surgery

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Speaker 1: capital of the world. The industry isn't regulated there, which

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Speaker 1: makes keeping track of numbers pretty difficult. Up to eight

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Speaker 1: of the surgeons operating in South Korea aren't certified, and

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Speaker 1: they're known as ghost doctors, which is a horror movie

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Speaker 1: I've seen in a different life, but that's separate. Somewhere

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Speaker 1: between one third and one fifth of South Korean women

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Speaker 1: are thought to have undergone cosmetic surgery, along with a

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Speaker 1: little less than one fifth of men. There's even an

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Speaker 1: improvement quarter, with four hundred to five hundred clinics or

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Speaker 1: hospitals in the space of a square aisle. A story

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Speaker 1: published in The New Yorker claimed that it's fairly common

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Speaker 1: for a relative to say that you'd be better looking

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Speaker 1: with insert cosmetic surgery thing here. It's not an insult,

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Speaker 1: so maybe my relative is just cottoning off of that.

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Speaker 1: The most popular surgery is blueflora plasti, which is when

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Speaker 1: a crease is put into the eyelid to make the

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Speaker 1: eyes look larger, and this procedure became popular after the

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Speaker 1: Korean War when Koreans wanted to get more Western eyes,

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Speaker 1: particularly among sex workers looking for an American clientele. Now

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Speaker 1: before a plastic is a common gift for high schoolers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we had a foreign exchange student from South Korea and

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Speaker 1: when she graduated and went back to South Korea, Um,

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Speaker 1: that was her her and her sister. That was their

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Speaker 1: gift was that was getting that surgery, which at the

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Speaker 1: time we were like, what plastic surgery for your graduation present?

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Speaker 1: But I guess it's a thing. It is a thing,

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Speaker 1: and a popular look among South kore Ends is called

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Speaker 1: bagel girl, which is baby faced and glorious. And an

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Speaker 1: example of a questionnaire from one of these places that

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Speaker 1: you would fill out before you go in to get

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Speaker 1: to get your cosmetic surgery, the question is, if you

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Speaker 1: get the result you want from plastic surgery, what's the

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Speaker 1: thing you most want to do? A upload of selfie

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Speaker 1: without using photoshop, be get a lover, see find a job,

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Speaker 1: d enter a competition for face beauty. Mm hmmm interesting

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Speaker 1: options there, um, especially as an upload a selfie without

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Speaker 1: using photoshop. I know we'll talk more about this going

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Speaker 1: on in the episode, but and I don't know. People

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Speaker 1: have heard of me get on my social media Instagram

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Speaker 1: perfection soapbox many many times before, so we're doing that

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Speaker 1: again right now. But I do think there's something to

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Speaker 1: this idea that people get confused with photoshop and face filters,

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Speaker 1: where we don't understand what what an actual human faith

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Speaker 1: looks like anymore. That we had this idea that you know,

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Speaker 1: your face is supposed to look like it does but

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Speaker 1: it has doggy bilter on it, and it's that's not

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Speaker 1: necessarily true. Yeah, and not at all. And I do

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Speaker 1: think one of the things that really stuck out to

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Speaker 1: me doing this research is I was surprised at how

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Speaker 1: many people have gotten cosmetic surgery, and in my own life,

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Speaker 1: I've been surprised to find out people who have gotten it.

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Speaker 1: And it makes me wonder if I am looking at

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Speaker 1: someone and thinking, oh, I wish I looked like that,

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Speaker 1: or I wish my nose was like that, or I

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Speaker 1: wish I didn't have wrinkles there if they if I

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Speaker 1: if I'm unaware of how many people around me have

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Speaker 1: had cosmetic surgery, that I'm comparing myself too. Oh wow, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I mean I had that had not occurred to me,

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Speaker 1: because you might not necessarily know when you look at

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Speaker 1: someone that they've had work done. And so if you're

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Speaker 1: if you're I mean, it's just just another way another

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Speaker 1: trap of us getting stuck in this idea of unattainable

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Speaker 1: beauty and perfection that no one could could achieve without

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Speaker 1: a little you know, a little nipital talk, right right. Um.

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Speaker 1: And another interesting thing I found is that American cosmetic

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Speaker 1: surgeons get cosmetic surgery at a much higher rate than

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Speaker 1: the rest of the population, and they sort of see

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Speaker 1: it as an advertisement for their work and makes sense, although, um,

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Speaker 1: the female surgeons got breast augmentation at lower rates than

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Speaker 1: the rest of the population. What do you think that means?

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Speaker 1: I I don't know. I thought about this a lot, because, um,

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Speaker 1: this is an article on our our very own site,

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Speaker 1: how Stuff Works, And they were interviewing one woman in particular,

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Speaker 1: and she said that it's just seen as more like

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Speaker 1: your face is more of the billboard, and so it's

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Speaker 1: like easier work to to do and recover from, I

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Speaker 1: suppose as as compared to any sort of implants. So

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Speaker 1: I guess it's like an easier it's billboard to buy out.

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Speaker 1: It is interesting, though, It's really really interesting. Yeah. That

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Speaker 1: would almost be like if you went to a Ford

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Speaker 1: dealership and the guy who was selling you your Ford,

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Speaker 1: who was like, all, this a great FOURD, this is

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Speaker 1: a great Ford. He drove a camera. It will be

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Speaker 1: something from like what Yeah, I'm just kid. That's I

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Speaker 1: found that. I find that so curious. Yeah, yeah, So

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Speaker 1: I guess the question this inevitably brings us to is

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Speaker 1: why are so many people deciding to modify their looks

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Speaker 1: with cosmetic surgery? And the answer may seem obvious, but

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Speaker 1: I think it is absolutely worth looking into. When Bonnie

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Speaker 1: Berry conducted her study examining beauty and the discrimination and

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Speaker 1: biased surrounding it, she came to the conclusion that around

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Speaker 1: half of all Americans are un happy with their looks,

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Speaker 1: which she thinks is because of the way the media

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Speaker 1: and culture portray beauty. But people have been taking part

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Speaker 1: in painful corrective surgeries before anesthesia before in a subjects

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Speaker 1: way way before we were constantly bombarded with images of

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Speaker 1: the ideal beauty standard. And we'll get into some history

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Speaker 1: after a quick break for word from our sponsor, and

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Speaker 1: we're back, Thank you sponsor. So humans have been modifying

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Speaker 1: the way their bodies looked for a long time, whether

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Speaker 1: through tattoos, piercing, or scarring. Cosmetic surgery, or at least

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Speaker 1: the foundations of it has been around for centuries. Some

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Speaker 1: of the techniques have been around longer than that, since

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Speaker 1: before the Common era, the ruling class in Asia in

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Speaker 1: particular was big on utilizing these techniques for an early

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Speaker 1: kind of rhinoplasty, and in a sixth century before Common

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Speaker 1: era book out of India, the healer Shrewta described performing

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Speaker 1: skin graphs for cosmetic surgeries. So that's that's a pretty

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Speaker 1: long time. By one thousand CE, rhino plastics had grown

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Speaker 1: pretty popular. This was because of the practice of cutting

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Speaker 1: off the noses and upper lips of captured soldiers. So

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Speaker 1: many of our cosmetic surgeries began this way as a

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Speaker 1: treatment for soldiers wounded during conflict. Yeah, I found that

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Speaker 1: really surprising. I didn't know anything about the history of

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Speaker 1: plastic surgery as it relates to soldiers who had been

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Speaker 1: um captured and deformed in that way. It's really we've

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Speaker 1: come such a long way from those roots. I don't

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Speaker 1: think most people know that. I don't think so when

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Speaker 1: we go in to get botox or whatever, people are thinking, Oh,

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Speaker 1: the long storied history of war and conflict. Um written

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Speaker 1: records from the sixteenth century out of Britain and elsewhere

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Speaker 1: in Europe described barber surgeons who specialized in fixing perceived

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Speaker 1: facial deformities. And the reason it comes up when historians

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Speaker 1: talk about cosmets surgery is because at the time, an

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Speaker 1: ugly face was seen as a reflection of who you

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Speaker 1: were on the inside. The sentiment of it's the inside

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Speaker 1: that counts did not exist, and in fact, your physical

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Speaker 1: presentation was understood as a reflection of your inner self

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Speaker 1: and your morality, big serious business. Because of that, your

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Speaker 1: outward appearance impacted your status and social mobility in a major,

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Speaker 1: major way. And yes it still does, but for different reasons.

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Speaker 1: And we're going to talk more about that later. And

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Speaker 1: it shows you how important this idea was that people

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Speaker 1: would risk their lives and endore excruciating pain to correct it.

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Speaker 1: But it was really risky. Most of the first cases

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Speaker 1: of this happening were for incredibly stigmatized things, particularly the

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Speaker 1: loss of nose associated with syphilis. Wow. Yeah, I'm I'm yeah.

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Speaker 1: The early form of a nose job was called a

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Speaker 1: pedical flap graft, which is often miscredited to Dr Harold

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Speaker 1: Gillies in nineteen fifteen as a way of reconstructing the

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Speaker 1: faces of World War One soldiers. Gillies is seen as

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Speaker 1: the father of modern cosmetic surgery, at least to some people,

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Speaker 1: again primarily for wounded soldiers two thousand soldiers from the

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventeen Battle of Psalms Alone. Okay, so the pedical

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Speaker 1: flap graft. Basically, this entails cutting some skin off of

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Speaker 1: the patient's forehead or their arm, and in the case

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Speaker 1: of the forehead, holding it down and stitching it if

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Speaker 1: the skin came from the arm, according to a diagram

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Speaker 1: published in eighteen forty one, to make sure the skin

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Speaker 1: grasps it onto the nose, the patient's are gonna be

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Speaker 1: harnessed and a raised position. Um, probably making your hello,

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Speaker 1: Helen's flap all the time, um, and so you sort

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Speaker 1: of attached to the it's will include the diagram. It's

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Speaker 1: it's so it's complicated to explain, but you basically attached

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Speaker 1: the arm in a raised position to the face during

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Speaker 1: the healing period to make sure that that skin did

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Speaker 1: indeed graph um. We looked at the pictures of it.

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Speaker 1: It looks ridiculous. It looks quite brutal. And I just

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Speaker 1: how long can you keep your your arm in that

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Speaker 1: position without doing damage to your arm? I have question,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of it's got I can only imagine how

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable that would must be and how how long does

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Speaker 1: that heal? Because again, like you just mentioned, we're when

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Speaker 1: I think of a healing period for cosmetic surgery in

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking a week or two. This was back in

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Speaker 1: the eighteen hundreds. You would have to have your hand

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Speaker 1: like that for kind of a while at BET, I

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Speaker 1: would guess. So yeah. But two things happened in the

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Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds that made cosmetic surgery more commonplace. The first

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Speaker 1: was William Morton, an American dentist, performed the first painless

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Speaker 1: operation in eighteen forty six. And to do this, Morton

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Speaker 1: gave ether to the patient either through a handkerchief or

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Speaker 1: through a bellows and if done and properly, this could

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Speaker 1: be fatal. And the second thing was in eighteen sixties,

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Speaker 1: UM several European countries adopted Joseph Lister's surgical practice of

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Speaker 1: using antiseptic to accomplish sterile surgery. But despite those advancements UM,

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Speaker 1: the methods didn't really improve. They still did the arm

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Speaker 1: harness attached to the face thing for rhinoplasty, with the

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Speaker 1: new addition of a hot wax injection, which was then

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Speaker 1: sculpted by the surgeon into whatever shape they were looking for.

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Speaker 1: It didn't always work, and it's sometimes backfired, resulting in

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Speaker 1: disfigurement and or wax cancers are paraphenomas. John Orlando Road

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Speaker 1: did discover a way to perform surgery inside the nose

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Speaker 1: in the eighties so no scar would develop, and that

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Speaker 1: was something people really wanted, so people other folks couldn't

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Speaker 1: tell that they had gotten the surgery. And that brings

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Speaker 1: us to the new millennium. Advertisement for the Derma Futural

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Speaker 1: Company included surgeries for quote, humped, depressed or ill shaped noses,

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Speaker 1: protruding ears, and the finger marks of time, which is

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Speaker 1: just a fancy way of saying wrinkles. The finger marks

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Speaker 1: of time it's a it's a very poetic it is.

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Speaker 1: That's something I would say, slam poetry event the finger

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Speaker 1: wrinkles of time, thank you very much. Just my home.

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Speaker 1: That that that's it, the one line in the new Walk.

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Speaker 1: It would be dramatic, it would be very dramatic. Ads

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Speaker 1: for cosmetic surgery weren't really targeted towards women at first,

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Speaker 1: and in fact it was the opposite um what was

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Speaker 1: more common for women to come across for those devices.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of you have seen that look

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Speaker 1: like there's something out of a horror movie. And they

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Speaker 1: promised all kinds of things that, of course they generally

428
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 1: didn't deliver on. At one time, these contraptions were more

429
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 1: common than makeup. I have to say, those advertisements we

430
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 1: associate them with the days of yesteryear. But there are

431
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: still all kinds of face contraptions that you know, promise

432
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: the world in terms of skincare, and I have to

433
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: say I have bought and tried most of them. There's

434
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: nothing I like more than a like some sort of

435
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: thing I don't know, like the I have this mask

436
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 1: that emits a light that's supposed to help with acne,

437
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 1: whether it does or not who knows, but whenever I

438
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: see them, I'm like, oh, that looks so weird. I

439
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: have to try it. I have to say, a mask

440
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: that meets the light. If you saw a picture of it,

441
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: you it would freak you out. It's um yeah, it's

442
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 1: called the light Therapy acne mask. And it looks like

443
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: a like I want you to look a look up

444
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: a picture of it. It's like a Michael Myer's mask

445
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,360
Speaker 1: and a daft punk space helmet had a baby. That's

446
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: what it looks like. And then you put it on

447
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: your face at night, and then you know when your remader,

448
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: your boyfriend comes in there, like, what the hell is

449
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 1: happening here? That I do see a lot of opportunities

450
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: for for pranks, for scaring people. What color the lights pink? Oh?

451
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: Of course, so it's actually it's actually look like I

452
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: kind of a it's a oh. Actually sometimes they can

453
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: be blue. My last pink. Sorry, I'm looking at this

454
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,479
Speaker 1: up now. I didn't know they made him in blue. Well,

455
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: I'm sure the blue is for dudes. Even even our

456
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 1: creepy acne face bats have to be gendered. The patriarchy

457
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,479
Speaker 1: can't let let us have anything. Okay, we gotta get

458
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: back on check here. I'm gonna ask you more questions

459
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: off Mike about this. But the most requested cosmetic surgeries

460
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 1: were to achieve the white beauty standard. Of course, the

461
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: white nose in particular and twisted up in that was

462
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: the legacy of that nose left behind by syphilis that

463
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 1: people wanted to avoid. In the early days, no one

464
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 1: wanted breast enlargements. They wanted breast productions because smaller breast

465
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: were associated with white women and also are maybe because

466
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: of that, we're seen as a sign of youth and

467
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: of sexual control. And during the flapper air of the

468
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 1: nineteen twenties, it wasn't uncommon for a woman to want

469
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: smaller breasts to fit into that flapper look and also

470
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: of those flapper clothes. Some of the first movie stars

471
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: and burgeoning Hollywood got cosmetic surgeries in the twenties to

472
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: increase their odds of getting more leading roles. Breast and plants.

473
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 1: Aside the rest pendulum move in the other direction. When

474
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: small breasts took on a different connotation in the fifties,

475
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: then they were a side of unhappy woman with a

476
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: medical condition. I really think that you can see this

477
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: when it comes to like actresses and models, how it

478
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: kind of how certain body types sort of go into

479
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: fashion and add of fashion for a while, Like in

480
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: the nineties the look was big kind of bag watch boobs.

481
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: Actresses with small boobs were associated more with like class

482
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: and wealth, like your Gwyneth Paltrow's that kind of thing.

483
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: And then if you would big boobs, I think you

484
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: were so meant to would be seen as like trashy. Yeah,

485
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: I can definitely see that playing out in our in

486
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: our entertainment, they're more sexualized for sure, bigger boobs. Yeah,

487
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: So it definitely seems to be something that kind of

488
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: swings along this pen to the love what is and

489
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: it's not? In style? Um. In nineteen sixty two, the

490
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: very first silicone breast and plant surgery took place in Texas.

491
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,959
Speaker 1: And when you're talking about the history of cosmetic surgery,

492
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: to back up a little bit, you have to mention

493
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: Dr Charles Miller, who has been called the father of

494
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: modern cosmetic surgery by some and an unabashed quack by others.

495
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: Miller started off his career as a clinical surgeon, and

496
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: soon after setting up his own practice, he started to

497
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: publish articles on futural surgery over twenty articles in nineteen

498
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: o seven alone. His textbook Cosmetic Surgery, The Correction of

499
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: Futural and Imperfections hit the shelves. That same year, he

500
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: fell off the radar for a bit in legal trouble

501
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: over his ownership of three quack drug stores, but he

502
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: made a comeback as an editor in nineteen fifteen and

503
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: start his own journal in nine He went as far

504
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: to recommend that some nerves in the face should be

505
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: severed to keep wrinkles from from forming. Though the cosmetic

506
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: surgery world would for the most part, like to forget

507
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: about him, he was one of the first that recognized

508
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: and wrote about the societal concern around mostly feminine beauty

509
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: and its market value. Now, Miller, who often condemned crack

510
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: doctors and his articles, is remembered as one himself. That's

511
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: history for you was a pretty big year when it

512
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: comes to shifting views around cosmetic surgeries. That year, the

513
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: American Association of Plastic Surgery had their first meeting, and

514
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: it was the first year of the Miss America pageant.

515
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: Consumer beauty culture, particularly for women, really started to take off.

516
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: Over the next couple of decades. Beauty came to be

517
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: seen as less of a natural indicator of personal character

518
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: granted by God and more of a thing that you

519
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: could change if you wanted to. And cosmetic surgery is

520
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: really wrapped up in all of that. As the number

521
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: of people electing to get work done has gone up,

522
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: researchers have been digging into why that my be and

523
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: we'll get into some of those reasons after a quick break,

524
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: and we're back, Thank you sponsor. Now. A big trend

525
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: in the cosmetic surgery world that has caused a lot

526
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: of concern and anxiety is that more and more teenagers

527
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: are getting them sixty four thousand cosmetic surgery patients or

528
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: between ages thirteen and nineteen in the United States. One

529
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: reason that experts think the number of teens getting surgery

530
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: is rising has to do with the media, celebrity social media,

531
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: especially when a seventeen year old Kylie Jenner revealed that

532
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: she had gotten lip fillers. Many on the Internet felt

533
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: pretty strong feelings about it. The number of teams seeking

534
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: cosmetic surgery has prompted proposals to put a minimum age

535
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,479
Speaker 1: in place depending on the procedure. Another reason teens might

536
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: be getting cosmetic surgeries is the same reason Bonnie Barrier

537
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: I've done in her study that we mentioned at the

538
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: top of the show, unhappiness with your looks. It seems

539
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: like the most obvious answer. A two thousand nine Steady

540
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: into why young American women go through with cosmetic surgery

541
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: found that body dissatisfaction was the biggest predictor of interest

542
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: in cosmetic surgery. And according to Dr Judy Rosenberg, a

543
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: clinical psychologist, our culture makes it so socially acceptable to

544
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: seek plastic surgery, and because celebrities create the idea that

545
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: if you're beautiful and perfect, you will be rich, famous,

546
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: and loved, teens easily associate this with plastic surgery solution

547
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: as a pathway to feeling better. For parents, she advises

548
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: getting to the heart of why your child wants cosmetic

549
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: surgery before okaying a cosmetic surgery. That makes me so

550
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: sad that young people feel that way. But again, it's

551
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,959
Speaker 1: not just young people. I think all of us can

552
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: get caught in that, whether you're seventeen or you know,

553
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: I think it can be tempting to think that your

554
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: life would be improved if you could just lose that weight,

555
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: fix your nose, had the perfect hair, whatever, yeah, And

556
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: I just think of how insecure I was at that age,

557
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: and it's such a formative time. And if there is

558
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: bullying happening, and you think, if only I looked this way,

559
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: then things would improve it. I can absolutely see why

560
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: why people, young people would go through with this. Yeah,

561
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: and you know, we talk a lot about reality TV

562
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: and social media. Research actually backs up her point that

563
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: reality TV can have a big impact on how young

564
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: people feel about their bodies. More than one study has

565
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: found that people who watch reality TV shows about cosmetic

566
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: surgery report an elevated influence to go get the procedure themselves.

567
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: And so if you watch The Swan or Extreme Makeover

568
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: or you know those shows, you might think, oh, libo

569
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: suction or a nose job, that's what I'm missing. It

570
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: sort of normalizes it for you, I would imagine. I mean,

571
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: it kind of makes sense that people who watch that

572
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: that type of media would would consider getting cosmetic surgery

573
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: as compared to people who don't. Religion is actually another

574
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: big predictor. The more conservatively religious a person is, the

575
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 1: less likely they are to seek out cosmetic surgery. And

576
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 1: of course, things like anorexia and body dysmorphia might be

577
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: factors to body dysmorphia. R b d D is a

578
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:27,280
Speaker 1: mental condition that causes extreme preoccupation with a physical flaw

579
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 1: that is either invisible or minor to others, and something

580
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: tangentially related that we sort of mentioned at the top,

581
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 1: getting a lot of traction with the news right now

582
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: is being called snapchat dysmorphia, and this is an increasing

583
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 1: number of people who are seeking out cosmetic surgery to

584
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: look like their selfies with the filters and the smoothing

585
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 1: and all these other enhancing effects. Snapchat dysmorphia describes that

586
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: one report found that of facial plastic surgeons saw patients

587
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: who want to look more like their selfies coming in

588
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: and showing a plastic a cosmetic surgery and a picture

589
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 1: of themselves and saying, I want to look like this. Um.

590
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 1: Young girls who regularly edit and share selfies experience higher

591
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: levels of body dissatisfaction than those who don't. One of

592
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 1: my favorite writers, Nancy Joe Sales, has spent years interviewing

593
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,479
Speaker 1: teen girls with a focus on their relationship to social media,

594
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:28,879
Speaker 1: and she found that a lot of her subjects viewed

595
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: things like lip enhancements as a form of empowerment. And feminism,

596
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 1: but at the same time desire to keep those same

597
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: procedures a secret, which is not super empowering. She speculated

598
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: that this is in part because of the ads and

599
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,760
Speaker 1: other media linking sexualization to feminism or, in her words,

600
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: quote some young women think that even raising the question

601
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: is being sexist. That's the dirty little trick of this messaging.

602
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: Anyone who questions whether sexualization is feminism is quote sexist.

603
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 1: And when writing about this over at Harper's Bazaar, Kathleen

604
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 1: Hail surmised out everyone admitted that being on Instagram often

605
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: made her feel insecure, but no one would admit to

606
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 1: get in cosmetic surgery because of that insecurity, because that's

607
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: off brand. Insecurity isn't marketable, it doesn't jive with our

608
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: stylized version of feminism, and most of all, it isn't pretty.

609
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 1: You can dress up plastic surgery however you want, you

610
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: can give it feminist injections, but we do it because

611
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 1: we doubt ourselves, and in an age of carefully curated,

612
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: branded self expression, disguise its honesty. That's the one thing

613
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 1: women aren't talking about, the eternal truth that predates even

614
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: my stone age eighties birth. There is nothing less attractive

615
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: than a lack of confidence. And there's nothing feminist about

616
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: plastic surgery. It's just female and side note if it helps.

617
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: I'm way insecure, so I'll just say it out there.

618
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I am people. Yeah, I am very insecure?

619
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: Are we all are? High school? I was so insecure.

620
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 1: I was like obsessed with my with how I looked,

621
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 1: and I thought I looked awful all the time. Um,

622
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: I think it go I wouldn't say that insecurity goes

623
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: away as you get older. I think that you just

624
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,879
Speaker 1: become more comfortable with your body. At least I have. Um,

625
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 1: I'm still insecure, but you know, this is my body,

626
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: is my body, and like this is this, this is

627
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 1: the hand I've been dealt, you know, so you may

628
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: as well, like just learn to live with it. This

629
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: is the hand I've been dealt. Is excellent. No, but

630
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I mean, I'm not I'm

631
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 1: not like down on my looks. But I think that,

632
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: like when we I think that in a kind of way,

633
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: it's a sort of self a self acceptance where you

634
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: know you're I'm never going to have the perfectness and

635
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 1: perfect perfect this and perfect that. So I just have

636
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: to like like the way that I am and they

637
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 1: accepted and it's it's flawed, hairy beauty. I like that.

638
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: I like that. Um. And also before we move on

639
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 1: to the next thing, I did want to mention like

640
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: stylized feminism sort of sounds like a type of cool

641
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: girl to me. Just food for thought perhaps. And as

642
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: far as cosmetic surgery and feminism goes, I mentioned at

643
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 1: the top my complicated feelings around it, and the Internet

644
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: tells me that these complicated emotions are shared by a

645
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: lot of feminists. Ultimately, it's up to the woman if

646
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: she has the monetary resources to afford it, which is

647
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: an added layer to this discussion. And you can think

648
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: about makeup and shaving, bringing up similar anxieties, although cosmetic

649
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 1: surgery is a bigger, more permanent thing than shaving or makeup,

650
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: and unless you're combining the two into like laser hair

651
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: surgery or permanent makeup. But similarly, as with those things

652
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: that your body, your decision, there's no one size fits

653
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 1: all answer, and you can totally be feminist and do

654
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 1: all of these things. Um. But on the flip side,

655
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: it is worth asking why so many of us and

656
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 1: so many women in particular, are getting these cosmetic surgeries

657
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:10,320
Speaker 1: whose ideal are we trying to meet and keep in

658
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: mind at the bar for how a woman should look

659
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: keeps on moving, you know that pendulum. Sometimes it's big boobs,

660
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: sometimes it's small boobs. Sometimes it's a big buttons that

661
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: small butt, And now we have the tools to reach

662
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 1: that bar before it moves again. It's just another one

663
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: of those tight ropes that as women that were supposed

664
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 1: to walk where you're penalized if you don't look a

665
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 1: certain way financially and socially. But if you undergo surgery

666
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: to get that look and people find out, then you're

667
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: condemned as vain, silly, wasteful, and probably a bad feminist

668
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: and find out because as we've alluded to, a lot

669
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 1: of women are keeping their procedures a secret um That's

670
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: probably why Subtle is the cosmetic surgery trend of the moment.

671
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 1: And all of this does tie into something we talked

672
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: about so often on the show, which is how women

673
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: are valued on their appearance, and in particularly the appearance

674
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: most desired by men. If we think about things like

675
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: the beauty gap, showing that more traditionally attractive women get

676
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: paid more and are perceived as more confident. It's easy

677
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: to understand how a lot of folks see cosmetic surgery

678
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:13,359
Speaker 1: as a way to expand there are opportunities in life.

679
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: And I think that really plays into a lot what

680
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 1: we talk about on the show, that it's really not

681
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 1: fair to demonize women when we are sort of dealt

682
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 1: this bad hand to begin with. We have we are

683
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 1: expected to be all of these things that nobody could

684
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: possibly be, and if we want to get ahead socially financially,

685
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: we have to figure out a way to make it work,

686
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: to make the impossible sort of work. And you know,

687
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think that we we when we

688
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 1: demonize women for getting plastic surgery, it's just another way

689
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,439
Speaker 1: of throwing other women under the bus when we should

690
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: be throwing the patriarch here under the bus. And I

691
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: think Cherry Healey, who was the presenter of Sex Knives

692
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 1: and Lipersection, would agree with you. She said she cried

693
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 1: every day while working on that project. Quote. It was

694
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: so so challenging to make sense of it because for

695
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: one woman, surgery will change your life and they will

696
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,399
Speaker 1: feel happy and they'll have wished they'd done it ten

697
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,399
Speaker 1: years earlier, and for another woman it will ruin her life,

698
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: and for another woman is the best use of that

699
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: thirty grand and for another woman that will stop her

700
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 1: traveling the world and buying a flat. There's not one rule.

701
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 1: And she went on to say she doesn't judge a

702
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: woman who gets cosmetic surgery because quote, she lives in

703
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: a world that tells her every single day, hundreds and

704
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 1: hundreds of times that we like beautiful people, and we

705
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 1: prefer beautiful people. And if you're not beautiful, you displease

706
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: me because your ornament for me to enjoy. Mm hmm. Yeah.

707
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: So the conclusion is we can't win um as long

708
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: as we live in a society where we value women

709
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 1: on their looks and punish them for signs of age.

710
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: It's no wonder, at least to me. So many are

711
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: opting for cosmetic surgery, and it can be hard to

712
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: separate out what's something you want for your own sake

713
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: or something society has conditioned you to want. So therapist

714
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: just to getting the bottom of that first before committing

715
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 1: to cosmetic surgery, if if possible, those it's really hard

716
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: to untangle those things. But um worth worth asking the

717
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: question for sure, and speaking of asking the question. One

718
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: stuff that we can take is having this conversation out

719
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: in the open. So we want to hear from you.

720
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: Have you had plastic surgery? What are your thoughts on

721
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 1: plastic surgery? Did you get it and regret it? Did

722
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: you get it and it changed your life? We want

723
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: to know it all. You can email us at mom

724
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 1: Stuff at how Stuff Works. You can find us on

725
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, and on Instagram That stuff

726
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:38,439
Speaker 1: Mom never told you And this brings us to Listener mail.

727
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 1: Our first letters from Heather, she wrote, I want to

728
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: thank you for putting into words almost exactly my thoughts

729
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: during the whole situation. And this was in regards to

730
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: our episode on the immigration issue and separating families. Hearing

731
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: your justified rage made me feel a little less crazy

732
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: when trying to sort through the mess. Second, towards the

733
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: beginning of the episode, you mentioned that the Bible verse

734
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: the administration used to justify separating families actually didn't so

735
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: we should ignore it. I would argue that we should

736
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 1: ignore that regardless of if it justified it or not.

737
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: I want to add here, since people often accuse me

738
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: of being anti religious, that I am very religious person

739
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: and I try to live my life according to the Bible.

740
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 1: But the US is not a theocracy. We actually have

741
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: two really great concepts written into our government called separation

742
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: of church and state and freedom of religion. Freedom of

743
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 1: religion forbids the federal government from enforcing our endorsing religion

744
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 1: and separation is the idea that church and state don't

745
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: go together and that religion has no space in the state.

746
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,320
Speaker 1: By trying to use the Bible to justify their actions,

747
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 1: the government is basically ignoring those two very important parts

748
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: of our constitution and rights. Quoting scripture as a reason

749
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 1: behind national policy makes it so that politician is basically

750
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,359
Speaker 1: endorsing that religion and forcing it onto people who don't

751
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 1: subscribe to that religion or any religion. I have no

752
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,320
Speaker 1: problem with politicians using religion their private lives to justify

753
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: personal things like whether or not to divorce his or

754
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: her spouse or to not accept a living stipend. However,

755
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: when it comes to political discourse and policymaking, I believe

756
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 1: any argument using religion or religious text should automatically be invalid,

757
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,320
Speaker 1: regardless of if I agree with the policy or not

758
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 1: completely agree. Completely agree I as I've gotten older, I've

759
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 1: noticed more and more how many, how many things that

760
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 1: we just take for granted in our society that have

761
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 1: religious like reasoning behind them in politics, and I've grown

762
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: angry and angry about it. So completely agree. Yeah, we

763
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: could do an entire episode breaking down some of that stuff.

764
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 1: Some of it you might even might not even notice,

765
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: Like how many times are there religious connotations to our money?

766
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 1: Says I'm got to be trust you know, like it's everywhere,

767
00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: It is everywhere absolutely. Felix wrote, I'm a queer trans

768
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 1: man most of my adolescence that considered myself quote not

769
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: like other girls. Spoiler it's because I wasn't a girl.

770
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 1: I found that my guy friends would often view me

771
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: as quote, one of the guys or try to put

772
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 1: me in a cool girl box, despite lacking of the

773
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,800
Speaker 1: obligatory traditionally attractive factor. Wasn't particularly good at that, but

774
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 1: I still had male friends crushing. I've spoken to my

775
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 1: trans peers and found that many trans guys and trans

776
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 1: masculine folks find this especially when they're attracted to men,

777
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: because in many cases we do have masculine interest and

778
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: lean toward more masculine behavior. I used to have nerdy

779
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,839
Speaker 1: male friends developed crushes all the time, to the point

780
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 1: where I'd act standoffish and rude just to put them

781
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: off the quote cool girl and didn't usually help. When

782
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: I transitioned, I realized how much I've been holding back

783
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,479
Speaker 1: in my friendships, particularly with straight men, because I didn't

784
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: want to have to reject them and have that have

785
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: an impact on our friendship. I don't think that sist

786
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 1: men realize the amount of constant analysis that women in

787
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: a fab assigned female at birth people often end up doing,

788
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: even when it comes to friendships. It's pretty exhausting. Yeah,

789
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:03,800
Speaker 1: that is. This is a good letter. Thank you for

790
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: writing in Felix. It is exhausting. Um. I also just

791
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: really I find it very interesting how um, cool girl

792
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 1: sort of translates through your experience I do to you.

793
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 1: As we've lamented a lot on this show, most of

794
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:22,800
Speaker 1: the research we find is focused on heterosexual folks, and

795
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 1: it's always wonderfully here from listeners that can give more

796
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: nuance to whatever topic we're talking about and just hearing

797
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: those experiences. So keep that coming. We really appreciate it.

798
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 1: And if folks want to send us emails, how can

799
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 1: they do that? They can email us at mom Stuff

800
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 1: at how stuffworks dot com, and you can always find

801
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at stuff Bomb, Never Told You and

802
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast and Thinks. As always

803
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: to our producer Andrew Howard,