1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Let me understand this correctly. 2 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: A perfectly healthy, twenty seven year old woman, college degree, 3 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: great future born with a silver spoon in her mouth, 4 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: gets drunk and high and shoves a beloved eighty seven 5 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: year old voice coach standing minding her own business on 6 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: the sidewalk, forcefully shoving her to the ground. She hits 7 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: her head and the voice coach dies. The grandma dies. 8 00:00:55,560 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: The so called Long Island event planner, Lauren Pazienza says 9 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: her defense is, I was so drunk and high, I 10 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: don't know what happened. 11 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 2: Really. 12 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: If that were a valid defense under the law, every 13 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: person in the Folding County gym will be walking free 14 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: right now that all claim they were drunk and high 15 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: when they kill somebody in the last hours, A stunning 16 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: guilty plea and what many believe to be a sweetheart 17 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: sentence goes down. I mean to see, Grace, this is 18 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at 19 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: serious XEM one eleven. 20 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 2: What happened? 21 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 3: What? 22 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: According to police, the so called cesspool princess, Yes, her 23 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: father dig says pools and it has become a millionaire 24 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: doing it, attacks the voice coach eighty seven years old. 25 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: Eighty seven years old, that's like my mom who's about 26 00:01:58,760 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: to turn ninety two. 27 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 2: Shoves her so hard. 28 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: Now the voice coach lived for a period of time 29 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: after she's come to the hospital, and she said, that's 30 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: the hardest I've ever been hit in my life. And 31 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: she's right. She shows this grandma to the ground, to 32 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 1: the sidewalk. She hits her head on the cement in bam, 33 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: she dies. 34 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: Now. 35 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:28,359 Speaker 1: Pasienza, the heiress to a huge cesspool draining empire, has 36 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: been at rykers about a year, I guess trying to 37 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: dream up a defense. There's not even a motive for this. 38 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: But how did the whole thing start at? How did 39 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: she get a sweetheart deal? Take a listen to our 40 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: friends ay crime online. 41 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 4: The attorney for New York City's sidewalk shover Lauren Posienza, 42 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 4: claims the spoiled socialite was a drunk and high mess 43 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 4: the night she allegedly pushed legendary Broadway singing coach Barbara Augustrin, 44 00:02:57,800 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 4: causing the eighty seven year old to fall and later 45 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 4: die from her injuries. Posienza's defense attorney, Arthur Idalla, standing 46 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 4: outside the Manhattan Criminal Court room said, quote she had drugs, 47 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 4: maybe two bottles of wine and a ton of marijuana unquote. 48 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 4: Posienza's facing charges of manslaughter and assault for the unprovoked 49 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:19,239 Speaker 4: attack on Gustern. After Posienza allegedly shoved her, the eighty 50 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 4: seven year old legend fell and hit her head. She 51 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 4: died five days later from those injuries. The twenty seven 52 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 4: year old has been held at Riker's Island, but her 53 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 4: lawyer said she's close to agreeing to a plea deal. 54 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: I don't know about that. I don't know why this 55 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: case should not go to trial. And this young woman, 56 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: well she's not that young. She's twenty seven years old, 57 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: old enough to know better. Shouldn't get the max. The 58 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: victim in this case, Barbara Mayor Gustern, was not just 59 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: a legend in the singing industry. 60 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 2: She's a beloved mother and grandmother. 61 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: Joining me right now in addition to an all star 62 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: panel is her grandson, aj Aj Mayor Gustern. 63 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 2: Aj. Thank you for being with us. 64 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 5: Thank you for having me. 65 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: I hope you had already heard of the defense and 66 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: I definitely put that in air quotes. I don't want 67 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,039 Speaker 1: to be the one to tell you to break it 68 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: to you that the defense in this case is that 69 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: she the defendant, the cesspool princess as she is called, 70 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: and she gets that name. I think Tony di Stefano 71 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: is with us from Newsday. 72 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 2: Tony. 73 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: Doesn't she get the name cesspool princess? She gets it 74 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 1: because her father is a millionaire that digs septic tanks 75 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 1: and all sorts of related products and services. 76 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 3: That's correct. He has a business on Long Island, and 77 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 3: you know it's basically a cesspool cleaning and maintenance business. 78 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 3: And I suppose he's done pretty well. He's got a 79 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 3: nice home in Port jeff So poor Jefferson. So you 80 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 3: know that's where that's where she gets that Moniker. 81 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: Well, the reality she has been given everything in life 82 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: on a silver platter, advantages, schools, vacations, clothes most people 83 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: could only dream of. And this is what happens. Back 84 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: to AJ Mayor Gustern, this is Barbara Gustern's grandson. AJ, 85 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: what do you make of the defense that she should 86 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: somehow get leniency because she had had two bottles of wine, drugs, 87 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 1: and a quote ton of weed the night that she 88 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: shoved your grandmother to her death. 89 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 5: Sure, I have been following this case quite closely. And 90 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 5: I think it's interesting actually that her father recently seems 91 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 5: to have changed the name of his business. I think 92 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 5: the business had their name in it and they've since 93 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 5: changed it. I think the defense is completely ridiculous, you know. 94 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 5: I think in particular, I saw a mention of xen x, 95 00:05:55,920 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 5: and anybody who's prescribed xen x should know when you 96 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 5: mix it with alcohol, it leads to aggression. Right. It's 97 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 5: a common thing of the next and I know plenty 98 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 5: of other people who have taken a little bit of 99 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 5: wine and weed and not done this. So people do 100 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 5: it every day. It's completely ridiculous that she would resort 101 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 5: to this. 102 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 2: A Jay, Were you with your grandmother till the end? 103 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 5: I was, I was holding her hand right when she passed. 104 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: I read about that, and it just brings to mind 105 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: being in the hospital room beside my dad when he 106 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: passed away, and I'll never forget that, just sitting in 107 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: the room after he had already gone to heaven and 108 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: wondering why that had to happen. 109 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 2: It was exact same age as your grandma. 110 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: And when I hear this woman's lawyer claims she was 111 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 1: quote overcharged and that she should not be held accountable 112 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 1: because she was drunk and high. That's not working for 113 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: me with me right now. You know him well. Renowned 114 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: former chief medical examiner in New York City, past co 115 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,559 Speaker 1: director for New York State Police Medico Legal Investigations Unit, 116 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: and author of American Autopsy, the famed doctor Michael Boden 117 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: is joining us. Doctor Bond, thank you for being with us. 118 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: What idiot would mix drugs weed and two bottles of wine. 119 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 6: Well, unfortunately there are a lot of such idiots around 120 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 6: the drink alcohol and use drugs much stronger than weed 121 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 6: in our culture right now. But the kind of defense 122 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 6: author Adalla is a very good lawyer, but the defense 123 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 6: doesn't have much merit. It's not unreasonable if a defense 124 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 6: lawyer doesn't have any better defense just to say, well, 125 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 6: my client, my defendant was drunk, he'd been drinking before 126 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 6: he shot his wife, and he didn't really know what 127 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 6: he's doing. And that may be partially true that if 128 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 6: you have a lot of alcohol, you don't quite know 129 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 6: what you're doing. But as soon as you start, you 130 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 6: know when you're taking the alcohol, you know when you're 131 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 6: taking the weed. And those are conscious decisions and they 132 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 6: have consequences, and I think for that reason usually always 133 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 6: in my experience, because I've been a number of testimonies 134 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 6: where the defense was the person didn't know what he 135 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 6: was doing because it was on amphetamines and drugs. He 136 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 6: was most commonly on alcohol, and it never works because 137 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 6: the legal concept is it isn't just that you're not 138 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 6: in possession of all your faculties. It is because you 139 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 6: knew that. You should have known that when you started 140 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:55,079 Speaker 6: drinking the alcohol in the first place. 141 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: The reality is, and let me go this to James 142 00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: Sheller joining me, high profile lawyer out of the Atlanta 143 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: metro area with a shell Nut law firm, not just 144 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: for now lawyer, but was with major case division swat 145 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: James shell Nut. If the I was drunk defense was legitimate, 146 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: everybody in the Fulton County jail will be out right now. 147 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: Everybody will go, yeah, I was drunk. That I mean 148 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: the letter of the law, the black and white letter 149 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: of the law is voluntary use of drugs or alcohol 150 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: is not a defense under the law unless it can 151 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: be proved the defendant was comatose, truly truly blacked out, 152 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: But that would require you to be laying out flat 153 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: out comatose. This woman was not comatose. She was angry 154 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 1: after a fight with her fiance, had a head of esteem, 155 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: was drunk and high and using drugs. According to her lawyer, 156 00:09:58,559 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 1: she was anything but. 157 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 7: Oh, I agree one hundred percent, Lou. That's a pretty 158 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 7: high hurdle to prove that you did not have the 159 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 7: intent to commit a crime. You know, volunteer in tosxication 160 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 7: is never a total defense to criminal charges, but volunteer 161 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 7: intoxication can be used and can be argued under New 162 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 7: York law. I've read the law on it this morning. 163 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 7: It can be used to negate the element of intent 164 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 7: for some crime. 165 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: Can I just break that down because that was quite 166 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: a mouthful. You sound like a law school professor in 167 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: a first year criminal law bottom line, it's never a defense. 168 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: It's not a defense like this was an accident or 169 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: self defense, which are both total defenses. 170 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 2: Under the law. 171 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: If you can prove a case of self defense or 172 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: it was an accident, you're out, you walk free, you're acquitted, bam. 173 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: But if you have diminished capacity, it can reduce a 174 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: case from murder one to let's just say, voluntary manslaughter. 175 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 1: Because James Shell Nutt is pointing out, it can be 176 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: argued that you had not complete control of your faculties. 177 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: But from what we know that night, she knew exactly 178 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: what she was doing because she tried to cover her tracks. 179 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,439 Speaker 2: She hid out afterwards and even lied. 180 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace. We are learning that prior 181 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: to the random attack on a nearly ninety year old 182 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: woman so called Cesspool, Princess down glass after glass after 183 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 1: glass of wine, celebrating one hundred days till their wedding. 184 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: She says she may also have taken a xanax. Now, 185 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: according to her defense at her he's a well known 186 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: defense attorney, author Idalla. Now his defense is she had 187 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: maybe two bottles of wine, drugs and a ton of marijuana. 188 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: That's the defense that makes me dislike her even more. 189 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: What more do we know? 190 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 2: Take a listen to I Had a Seagull at NBC four. 191 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 8: A single bouquet of flowers sits on twenty eighth Street 192 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 8: tonight where Barbara Gustern was shoved to the ground last week. Today, 193 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 8: family announced that the beloved singer and renowned voice coach 194 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 8: did not survive. 195 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 9: Jearing about it, it made me feel like I got hit 196 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 9: on the head with the hammer. 197 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 8: On Barbara's Facebook page, her grandson posted a photo of 198 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 8: him holding her hand in the hospital, writing today at 199 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 8: eleven fifteen am, we've lost one of the brightest little 200 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 8: flames to ever grace this world. 201 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 2: The tributes came pouring in. She was so wonderful. 202 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: She was encouraging, she was firm, she was the perfect teacher. 203 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 3: She was a sharp her you know, season person. You know, 204 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 3: it's like she was amazing. 205 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 8: Stephen Shanahan owns restaurant in Theater Pangaea, where Barbara had 206 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 8: recently performed and where she had hoped to premiere a 207 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 8: new cabaret show. 208 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: They sing and they tell stories. 209 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 9: It's very heart wine and they've done several different shows here. 210 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: That's who was killed, That's who was shoved to the 211 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: sidewalk and aj Isn't it true your grandmother Barbara did 212 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,599 Speaker 1: not know Lauren Posienza at all. They were complete strangers. 213 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 5: They're complete strangers. Yeah. I think it's another telling thing 214 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 5: that she targeted my grandmother, of all people. You know, 215 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 5: she didn't go after some two hundred pound guys. She 216 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 5: went after my bob, Bob, who god was older than 217 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:56,959 Speaker 5: she weighed. You know, so it's seem comprehensible. 218 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: You know, you just really struck a nerve with me. 219 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 1: Aj My mother, Elizabeth, who lives with us. She's going 220 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: to be ninety two, god willing in December, and that's 221 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 1: about what she weighs, no matter how much I try 222 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: to feed her. And the thought of someone pushing my 223 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: mother to the sidewalk where your grandma hit her head 224 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: and then died is unimaginable to me. The cruelty involved 225 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: in that. I want to understand what happened. Guys, take 226 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut eleven our friends at NBC four. 227 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 10: This attack happened on March tenth on twenty eighth Street 228 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 10: and Chelsea on Gusterrin's Block. 229 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 2: Detectives gave a surveillance from that night. 230 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 10: They say that she stayed in the area for about 231 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 10: a half an hour and left only after she saw 232 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 10: an ambulance arrive. We now know that investigators tracked her 233 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 10: movements through the subway and when she met up with 234 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 10: her fiance, all the way until they got to their 235 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 10: apartment in Astoria. 236 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 5: I'd like to stress and is it until proven guilty, 237 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 5: you know, as she did do this, then I would 238 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 5: like answers. 239 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 2: But this woman deserves her day in court. 240 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 10: Why if police know, they aren't sharing that Tonight they 241 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 10: are telling us that the suspect cursed of the victim, 242 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 10: and before she died, the victim told police the push 243 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 10: was as hard as she's ever been hit in her life. 244 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 11: I feel very vulnerable. Look, I'm older and I have 245 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 11: a keene that just squeams start up with me because 246 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 11: I can't defend myself. I will to the death, but it, 247 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 11: you know, it makes you feel like you have a 248 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 11: tiget on your back. 249 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: And to show guilty conscious which can come into evidence 250 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: your actions before, during, and after a crime. That evidence 251 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: is overwhelming. Hiding out, leaving the same, lying, deleting all 252 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: of her social media, stashing her cell phone well as 253 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, take on an our cut ten 254 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: our friend Erica Byfield. 255 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 10: The police detailing tonight how they say that she tried 256 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 10: to evade capture for weeks. They tell us that she 257 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 10: quit her job, deleted all of our social media, got 258 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 10: rid of her wedding website. 259 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 2: She was supposed to get married in June. 260 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 10: They also say that she stashed her cell phone at 261 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 10: her aunt's house and then hid out at her parents' 262 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 10: house a Long Island Ewhere midday Tuesday, we finally saw 263 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 10: twenty six year old Lauren Pasienza, her hair draped over 264 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 10: her face, refusing to talk, just after police charged her 265 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 10: with manslaughter, saying that she shoved and killed eighty seven 266 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 10: year old Barbara Augustern. I think she was a crappy person. 267 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 10: I mean, who goes around scheving an old woman. Gusterne 268 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 10: was of beloved Broadway voice coach. She gave lessons to 269 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 10: the greats. Her grandson is still trying to process losing 270 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 10: her and the arrest. 271 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, there is a sense of closure. 272 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: So if somebody is so drunk and high and on 273 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: drugs that they had no idea what they were doing, 274 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: why did they hide out? Why did she delete all 275 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: of her social media and not only that, even thinking 276 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: to use her fiance's transit card so her movements could 277 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: not be traced by police, including ditching her cell phone. 278 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: Take us to our cut fourteen from our friends at 279 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: Inside Edition. 280 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 9: Authority say Pasienza and her fiance, who works for Microsoft, 281 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 9: got into the subway at Penn Station. They transferred at 282 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 9: Times Square and then took the train to their apartment 283 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 9: in Queen's leaving a digital trail with the fiances metro card. 284 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 9: Pasienza allegedly spent the next few hours taking down all 285 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,959 Speaker 9: her social media and photos, including the website for her 286 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:40,360 Speaker 9: June wedding. Police say the day after Gustern died, Pasienza 287 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 9: went into hiding at her parents Long Island home. She 288 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 9: stayed there for two weeks. Meanwhile, she must have known 289 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 9: that police were on her tail. They released video of 290 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 9: her at the crime scene and plastered wanted posters across 291 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 9: the city. On Monday, two people who knew her well 292 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 9: called in the tip. Detectives went to her parents' home. 293 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 9: Her father reportedly told them she wasn't there, but wouldn't 294 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 9: let them search the house. The next day, she knew 295 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,880 Speaker 9: it was over and she turned herself. 296 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: In, now claiming she's too drunk, high and on drugs 297 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,439 Speaker 1: to know what she was doing, but she sure left 298 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: a trail a mile wide and tried to cover her tracks. 299 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 1: To Tony di Stefano, Tony, thank you for being with 300 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: us joining us on Newsday, Tony, what do we know 301 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: about what really happened the night that Barbara was pushed 302 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 1: ultimately to her death. 303 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 3: Well from the police, reports from the criminal complaint and 304 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 3: indictment in the case, we know that they had Lauren 305 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 3: and her boyfriend were having drinks in a park. She 306 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 3: was drinking a lot from what I understand, they were 307 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 3: told to leave the park by a park worker because 308 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 3: it was late. 309 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 1: She got angry, hold on Tony to Stefano, got angry 310 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: about what what she got, cut off from booze the 311 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 1: bark But okay, right right there, right there, drugs, two 312 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 1: bottles of wine, a quote ton of marijuana, and angry 313 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: because she had been kicked out of Chelsea Park. I 314 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: guess that's a bar restaurant that was closing. When she 315 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,479 Speaker 1: stops across the tee the street and out of sheer anger, 316 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: I guess because they wouldn't let her have more booze. 317 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: She push us an old lady to her death, and 318 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,919 Speaker 1: there's a video of her stomping off. Afterwards, she took many, 319 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: many actions to hide her whereabouts, to cover her tracks, 320 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: and then we find out she is said to have 321 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: watched as the nine on one crew the EMTs took 322 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: the frail little old lady away with blood seeping from 323 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: her head. She just stood there and watched. She spent 324 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: the next two weeks trying to cover her tracks, quitting 325 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: her jobs, the leading all of her social media pages, 326 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: even stashing her cell phone at her aunt's house in 327 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: Long Island and runs away from her Astoria apartment. 328 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 2: Wow. 329 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: You know, it's just like Watergate. There's the crime, which 330 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 1: is bad enough, but then there's a big, huge cover 331 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: up that goes to the highest levels of government, all 332 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,479 Speaker 1: the way to the White House, cause Nixon to resign. 333 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: The cover up, I mean, it is so much indication 334 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: of guilt. But what happened that night? Who is this 335 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: woman that's so called Saspool Princess? Doctor Angie, help me, 336 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: because I don't understand. They're getting angry when you have 337 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: to stop drinking and go home and go to sleep, 338 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: Why would that make you angry? 339 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 6: Nancy? 340 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 12: I think that that shows us the inside workings of 341 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 12: this girl's mind. No one ever tells her what to do, 342 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,640 Speaker 12: and if they do, she never has consequence. And if 343 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 12: they tell her what to do, she acts badly like this. 344 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 12: That's why she got mad, Because you know what, Nancy, 345 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 12: she hasn't lived under the regular rules of other people. 346 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 12: And that's the part of all of this that we 347 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 12: need to look at. They keep saying that she's. 348 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 3: A girl of privilege and all of. 349 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 12: This Nancy, she hasn't lived like other people have lived. 350 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: Hold on, I'm looking at a picture of her right 351 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: now on a family vacation as a teen. She's got 352 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: on like a leopard skin micro bikini beside a pool 353 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,679 Speaker 1: with palm trees in the background, and the caption says, 354 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: appears to have lived a life of privilege and later 355 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 1: glamour in New York City's high society. 356 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 2: What does that mean? 357 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 12: What that means is she's been doted upon and she's 358 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 12: had everything given to her at times in her life 359 00:21:58,800 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 12: that she shouldn't have had. 360 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: Whoa wait a minute, is this her standing in front 361 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: of a Porsche? Look at those pictures I sent you, Jackie. 362 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: Here is that her in front of a Porsche? Does Stephano? 363 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: Does she drive a Porsche? 364 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 3: I have no idea what you drove. 365 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: Well, I'm looking right out a picture and she's got 366 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: car key it looks like car keys in her hands, 367 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: and she's pointing toward a Porsche. 368 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 5: I mean, I think all you really need to look at, 369 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 5: right is she posted a five hundred thousand dollars bail, 370 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 5: which is ten times more than the average American family 371 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 5: makes in a year to avoid jal for a month. 372 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 5: I'd be curious to see how much her family has 373 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 5: donated to the soup kitchen that my grandmother went to 374 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 5: that she was murdered across the street front. 375 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 1: Guys, you're hearing the voice of Barbara's grandson, who was 376 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: with her to the end, who was holding her hand 377 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 1: when she went to heaven because of this woman drunk 378 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 1: high on drugs with a silver spoon still clinched between 379 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: her teeth for no reason, angry because she was cut 380 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: off drinking in the park and takes it out on 381 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: an eighty. 382 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 2: Seven year old woman. And you heard ajsay that's about 383 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 2: as much as she weighed. She didn't go shove a. 384 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: Three hundred pounds musclebound guy that just left the gym. 385 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 2: She picked on an eighty seven year old. 386 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: Literally, little old lady, a little old lady like my mother. 387 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: Oh oh hgbl No, this woman does not need a 388 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: sweetheart plea deal. Hey doctor, Angie, what were you saying 389 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: before somebody very rudely cut you off? Oh it was me, Sorry, 390 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 1: go ahead, what were you saying me? 391 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 12: See this people should listen to this story and see 392 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 12: and think about what privilege and saving your kids from 393 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,919 Speaker 12: things and not showing your kid's consequences. This is what 394 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 12: it leads to. This is the kind of behavior. 395 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 7: At least too. 396 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 12: And I want to point out something else. Everyone is 397 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 12: stating that she was drunk and high. 398 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 7: How do we know that, Nancy. 399 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 12: She might drink like this on a regular basis. She 400 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,439 Speaker 12: might not have been touched face by this alcohol. She 401 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 12: wasn't drunk like I would be drunk if I had 402 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 12: two glasses of wine. Okay, she may do this every day, 403 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 12: So let's not say she was drunk because we don't 404 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 12: know that. Because as you said, as you pointed out, 405 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 12: she knew exactly what to do after this happened. Okay, 406 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,360 Speaker 12: she knew exactly what to do. 407 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: According to reports, she was told the part was closing 408 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: and she had to quit drinking and leave. She became enraged, 409 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: and she charged Barbara Gustern on the street, shoving the 410 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 1: eighty seven year old lady to the ground and calling 411 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:57,360 Speaker 1: your grandmother a bit. 412 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 2: She called your your grandmother a bitch? Why why did 413 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:05,360 Speaker 2: she do that? 414 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: And then stood there and watched as an ambulance clue 415 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: took your grandma away with blood seeping from her head, 416 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: and now then spending the next two weeks hiding and 417 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: covering her trail, and now she wants leniency. Joseph Jack 418 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,360 Speaker 1: Alone joining me, former NYPD sergeant, author of the Cold 419 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: Case Handbook and the Criminal Investigative Function, the Guide for 420 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: a New Investigator's fourth edition. That means it's been published 421 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: three times before. Joseph, thank you for being with us. 422 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: This is your backyard. What do you have to say 423 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: about prosecutors allegedly offering her a sweetheart deal? 424 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,479 Speaker 13: Well, it's quite interesting because I look at it from 425 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 13: the law enforcement perspective that you could have probably added 426 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 13: on some charges. I mean, when you choose an eighty 427 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 13: seven year old statutes in New York City, that you 428 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 13: could even make a claim that they could have been 429 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 13: even a hate crime. So, you know, shell she called 430 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 13: them her name. That's something that you have to, you know, 431 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 13: to look further into. I mean, listen, prosecutors and defense 432 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 13: attorneys do what they do, right, So prosecutors most of 433 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 13: the cases that they leave them out, they rarely go 434 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 13: to trial. And I'm sure I know you have a 435 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 13: lawyer on here the panel today and I'm sure he 436 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 13: would agree with me on that, because you can't put 437 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 13: every case in. 438 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 5: Front of a jury. 439 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 13: But you know, we have to look at the and 440 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 13: focus on what you do have. And the investigators did 441 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,399 Speaker 13: a great job here, you know, putting these things together 442 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 13: with video surveillance, cell phone records, they might even have. 443 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 5: Been Internet records. 444 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 13: Right, we know that the phone was found at the 445 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 13: ant house, Will probably fainted. They followed her throughout the 446 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 13: entire system on the street through video surveillance. So it 447 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 13: goes to show you that painstaking detail to what the 448 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 13: detectives had to go through was was pretty amazing when 449 00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 13: they when you think about it. 450 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: They put together a heck of a And my question 451 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: is why plead it out? 452 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 2: Take this thing to trial? 453 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,879 Speaker 1: Get the max on this woman who shoves an eighty 454 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 1: seven year old grandmother to the ground and call her 455 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 1: a bitch, then stand by and watch it be taken 456 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 1: away in an ambulance instead of focusing on her, focusing 457 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: on hiding for the next two weeks until one of 458 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 1: her friends turn her in after spotting her on TV 459 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,959 Speaker 1: seeing that subway, seeing the video of her. But I 460 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: want you to hear more about what happened the night 461 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: of the incident. Take a listen hour cut thirteen. Our 462 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: friends at Inside Edition. 463 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 9: We're learning more about the young woman accused of an 464 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 9: unspeakable crime, shoving an elderly lady to her death for 465 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 9: no reason. 466 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 2: Police say. 467 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,959 Speaker 9: Six minutes after the unprovoked attack, the suspect, twenty six 468 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,199 Speaker 9: year old Lauren Pezienza, walked back to the scene and 469 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 9: watched an ambulance take away the elderly woman, eighty seven 470 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 9: year old Barbara Gustern, a renowned singing coach. The suspect's 471 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 9: high powered lawyer, Arthur Idallas, spoke to reporters after her 472 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 9: arraignment and previewed what may be her defense. 473 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: Whether it was a push, or whether it was a shove, 474 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: or whether it was a kick, or whether someone tripped. 475 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 2: The evidence is not very solid on. 476 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 13: That at all. 477 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 2: Police say. 478 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 9: The victim remained conscious long enough to tell them her assailant, 479 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 9: who she had never met before, crossed the street, then 480 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 9: called her the b word and pushed her as hard 481 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 9: as she had ever been hit in her life. 482 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: Can you imagine calling your mother or your grandmother a bitch? 483 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 1: Can you even imagine that? I mean aj mayor Gustern, 484 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: This is Barbara Gustern's grandson, who stayed with her till 485 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: the end. I just lost every chance of me believing 486 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: anything the defense said is over by saying the word 487 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: maybe she tripped the ass. Your grandmother did not trip. 488 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: Nobody tripped. 489 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 2: What were her words to you about how hard she 490 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 2: was shoved? 491 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 5: Aj, I actually wasn't present when I heard those words. 492 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 5: She got back to her building after the attack, and 493 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 5: the friends she was rehearsing with met her in the 494 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 5: lobby and they were the one who heard her say 495 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 5: that as she was called the B word and shoved 496 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 5: as hard as she ever was in her life. And 497 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 5: then she shortly lost consciousness when she got in the ambulance, 498 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 5: and then I flew out the very next morning, and 499 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 5: I didn't see her until I got in the hospital. 500 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 5: The last time I talked to her was the. 501 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 2: Monday of that week. 502 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 5: And yeah, I've seen it, mister Idalla say other things 503 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 5: like complying my grandmother had some kind of illness or disability, 504 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 5: which is just ridiculous. At her age, she was still 505 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 5: teaching voice all day, going out to shows. I mean, 506 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 5: she was comfortable enough to go out at night alone 507 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 5: and walk to the show she was on her way 508 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,239 Speaker 5: to when she was when she was killed. That's how 509 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 5: much she loved the city, and that's how much she 510 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,959 Speaker 5: trusted the city, And that's how capable she was. 511 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 2: Was she was on her way to see a show. 512 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 2: What was she saying? 513 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 5: One of her students shows? She was She was on 514 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 5: her way to see one of her students, and she 515 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 5: was going to talk with another student about a book 516 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 5: she was she was creating at that show. 517 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace. Well, in the last hours, 518 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: we learned Sweetheart deal goes down. She's only sent uced 519 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: to eight years. You know what she'll serve on that 520 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: probably two yeah, probably two years. What's amazing. Just to 521 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: top it all off, the poisonous icing on the sour cake, 522 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: she actually said, and her lawyer said that she was overcharged. 523 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 2: What I mean. 524 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: People all the way back at school said she was 525 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: nothing but trouble, the poster child for pure privilege. According 526 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: to a former classmate, never suffered any consequences, enabled by 527 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: parents who got her out of everything, But she called 528 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: her own parents stupid and basic. That would break my 529 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: heart if one of my twins called me stupid and basic. 530 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: Of course it may be true, but for them to 531 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: say it. One acquaintance says that she mocked people, made 532 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: fun of fat people, made fun of deaf people, anybody. 533 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: I mean this what a piece of work. But how 534 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: did she get a sweetheart sentence? Let's review the facts 535 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: as we know them now eight years man, I'm guarant 536 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: I'm telling you she'll be out of too. Let's go 537 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: to doctor Michael Boden, the former chief medical Examiner in 538 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: New York. Doctor bod what happened to Barbara? She was fine, well, 539 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: not fine, but she was had her wits about her, 540 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: was speaking, described to her student what happened, that she 541 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: was shoved, herd that she's ever been shoved in her life, 542 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden she seemingly whacked out and 543 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: then died. 544 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 6: Yeah, that's a good question. Firstly, Nancy, I don't think 545 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 6: she was shoved. She was struck very hard in the back. 546 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 6: And I think there's a difference between somebody shoving somebody 547 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 6: in a subway and just being whacked very hard in 548 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 6: the back, which is as Aja said, is what she 549 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 6: said happened to her. And then when she fell down 550 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 6: and struck her head. And remember Liam Neeson's. 551 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 2: Wife, Natasha Richardson. 552 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 6: Right, Natasha Richardson, when she skied down and fell down, 553 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 6: and they called it an ambulance and she said she 554 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 6: felt fine. There's one specific type of head injury, a 555 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 6: tailor of a little artery middleman in jeal artery that 556 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 6: when a fall of cars it can get ruptured, but 557 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 6: the patient doesn't feel anything for as the bleeding comes 558 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 6: from it, and many hours later or a day later, 559 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 6: the bleeding accumulates to such an extent that it compresses 560 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 6: the brain and causes the person. 561 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 2: Hey, right, whit whit? 562 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 7: Why? 563 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: Doctor Biden, we're not except for doctor Angel Arnold, who's 564 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: not only an MBI, but she's a psychiatrist as well. 565 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: You're anlin warp speed for all of us. What First 566 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 1: of all, what artery are you talking about? 567 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 6: The metal middle meningeal artery. It's a little very small 568 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 6: that goes to the where is it on your head? 569 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 2: Is it above your ear? Near your temple? 570 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 6: You got it? That's just from where it is. It 571 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 6: comes through a little opening in the skull just behind 572 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 6: the ear. It doesn't heal by itself. It keeps bleeding slowly, 573 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 6: and that's why the person is okay for a while. 574 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 6: And while she described what happened, and then it just 575 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 6: causes a person to gradually go to sleep and lose consciousness. 576 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,959 Speaker 6: There's no pain with it. She doesn't have any pain. 577 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: To Tony di Stefano, joining us on News Day, Tony, 578 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: the defense is also arguing that the so called Cesspool Princess, 579 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: Lauren Pasienza, has been overcharged. 580 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 2: I don't understand why she's not charged with. 581 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: A hate crime with enhanced penalties, because when you commit 582 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: a violent crime on an elder, typically in most jurisdictions, 583 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: you get enhanced or greater sentences behind bars, and they're 584 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: looking at a sweetheart deal. 585 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 2: What's going on up there? 586 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 3: Well, I'm wondering. You know, Ourdalla is trying to basically 587 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 3: diminish the intent to cause injury, the element of first 588 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 3: degree manslaughter. That's why they're arguing about the intoxication, the 589 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 3: drug use, etc. 590 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 2: Okay, you're actually making my head hurt, Tony. 591 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 3: Why is it making your head hurt? 592 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 1: The law presumes, and jump in if I'm wrong, anybody 593 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,280 Speaker 1: on the panel. The law presumes you intend the natural 594 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 1: consequence of your act. You shove literally a little old 595 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:46,839 Speaker 1: lady to the pavement as she hits her head. What 596 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 1: do you think is going to happen. 597 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 3: There is the element of intent, but there also is 598 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 3: the element of recklessness in the law. They're different. If 599 00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 3: you intend. If she intended to shove Barbara Gustern to 600 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 3: cause her injury, that's a conscious decision. If she did 601 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 3: so recklessly, that's another element. 602 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:08,240 Speaker 2: Whoa, whoa, whoa. 603 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: Wait wait, Tony, there's something called the abandoned and malignant heart, 604 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 1: which means you are so reckless. For instance, if I 605 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: got my minivan and Florida to ninety mph and then 606 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 1: drove through a street market and I just happened to 607 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,359 Speaker 1: plow down four or five people and they died, that's 608 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: still murder with an abandoned and malignant heart. Where are you, 609 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:38,240 Speaker 1: Selle Nutt, you're the lawyer on the panel today, jump in, man. 610 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 2: Help me with Tony de Stefano. He obviously knows the 611 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 2: law better than you, and I said, I need you. 612 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 6: Absolute. 613 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 5: This is the kicker to me. 614 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 7: When she shoves this lady and then calls her a 615 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 7: bitch right after that, she's intending. That is clear evidence 616 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 7: she is intending to seriously injured this lady. That shows 617 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 7: her intent right there on her war stay on the 618 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,799 Speaker 7: prosecution's war stay. She's guilty of man one. Under New 619 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 7: York Pedal Code, she could possibly be charged with a 620 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 7: murder charge. To say that she is overcharged is sick. 621 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,320 Speaker 2: No way, no way. 622 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut sixteen. Who is this woman? 623 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends a crime online. 624 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 4: After graduating high school in twenty thirteen, Lauren Pozienza attended 625 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 4: the Fashion Institute of Technology in Manhattan and worked as 626 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 4: an events coordinator for a high end French furniture company. 627 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 4: She was seen gallivanting around town attending swanky parties in 628 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 4: our gallery openings before she resigned her position last December, 629 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 4: but neighbors at the upscale Astoria condo where she lives 630 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 4: with her fiance said she wasn't all smiles at home. 631 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 4: Law enforcement sources say that Pasienza was aknown nuisance in 632 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,360 Speaker 4: the shore Towers and had previously called cops on her neighbors. 633 00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:59,759 Speaker 4: A woman who lives in the building says there was 634 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,280 Speaker 4: allys an issue with her and someone in the building. 635 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 4: It's always like something with that lady. Another man who 636 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 4: also lives in the building described her as definitely not 637 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:09,840 Speaker 4: the best tenant. 638 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: So Doctor Auntie Arnold. We've heard about anger management, that 639 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,880 Speaker 1: she had been a bully since she was in grade school. 640 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 1: What does this all mean, doctor Angie Nansie. 641 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 12: This goes way beyond anger management. Let's just point out. 642 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:37,879 Speaker 12: I'm just going to say this, Okay, people develop very 643 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 12: bad personality disorders starting it infancy. As a matter of fact, 644 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 12: we know that it starts an infancy when you're not 645 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,840 Speaker 12: treated correctly in infancy. That's how serial killers develop. Okay, 646 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 12: I think that she's going to be a case study 647 00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:58,760 Speaker 12: for what happens to children. 648 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 1: You know, I really appreciate you going all the way 649 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,360 Speaker 1: back to her infancy. But let me play a clip 650 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 1: of her, the so called Sayspool princess, mocking the death 651 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:11,799 Speaker 1: in her adulthood. 652 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 2: Listen, she may, she may please. I don't want to 653 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:29,719 Speaker 2: hear any more of it. 654 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,360 Speaker 1: That's who we're talking about, as an adult, mocking the deaf. 655 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 2: Aj mayor Gustern. What is your message. 656 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 5: Blorn in particular, Recognize how lucky you are, right, Recognize 657 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 5: that you could have got murder, you could have got 658 00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 5: hate crime. Your parents could have gotten in trouble for 659 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 5: harboring you, all right, recognize these things. 660 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 2: Wow, there's so much better of a person than they 661 00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 2: go ahead. 662 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 5: And you know, from the very beginning she had she 663 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,520 Speaker 5: had a very good chance of having me potentially be 664 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:12,799 Speaker 5: in her corner. Right, if she would have not run, 665 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 5: if she would have stayed and been like this was 666 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 5: me right, like I did this, like the day she 667 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 5: was watching them take her away, right, I might I 668 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 5: might have been supportive of her. Instead, she's she's pushed 669 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,919 Speaker 5: the trial back as much as she can. She's she's 670 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,279 Speaker 5: done everything in the playbook to draw this out and 671 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 5: get the minimum time possible. I'm not convinced that she 672 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 5: recognizes truly what she's even done. 673 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 1: Well, I guess it's a rough cut at justice. But 674 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,840 Speaker 1: I've got a funny feeling we haven't heard the last 675 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:56,360 Speaker 1: of the Cesspool Princess Lauren Pazienza. Our prayers with Barbara 676 00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 1: Mayor Gustern, I'm sure in heaven now, and for her family, 677 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,799 Speaker 1: who has a life sentence without her.