WEBVTT - Bandon Deep Dives: Bandon Trails 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.520 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:04.920 When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:06.920 And when I find my ball in a brid egg 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:10.039 Friday egg and dreaded Frida egg, Frida egg, Frida egg 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:11.280 Brian Egg Frida egg. 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:13.320 Bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:14.080 Of the course. 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:37.880 Hello and welcome to the Frida Egg Podcast. My name 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:40.919 is Garrett Morrison. I am here today with Andy Johnson 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:43.000 Andy House, San Francisco. 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:44.120 Revealing my location. 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:47.880 It's it's delightful to be out of winter, and uh, 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:50.879 it's cool. It's just nice to be out seeing some 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:54.640 some golf courses and seeing some stuff and being somewhere 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:57.240 where you can do that and not be really cold. 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:01.080 Yeah, well, well it looks lovely. In any case, We 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:05.720 are here today to talk about a West coast location. 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:10.080 Pacific Northwest locations shared Pacific Northwest location. 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:12.880 Yeah, well, is San Francisco in the Pacific Northwest. 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:15.400 Some can say it? Consider it? 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:19.280 Who would say that, I don't know. Okay, it's somebody, 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:21.680 you know. Intelligent people would consider it. 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:22.400 So okay. 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:26.640 Now Midwesterns, naive Middlewesterns would consider it. 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:30.440 Anything that's not the Southwest or southern California is the 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:31.440 Pacific Northwest. 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:34.319 I think yeah, I think that's that's true. 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:39.080 It's if you have redwood trees, you're the Pacific Northwest 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:39.640 in my book. 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:44.000 So we are talking about Bandon Dunes obviously, that that 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:48.320 little known resort on the Oregon coast, and today is 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:53.960 the third of our bandoned deep dives. We've done Sheep 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:57.360 Ranch and the last one we did was Old MacDonald 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:01.480 and today we're going to dig into Bandon Trails, which 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:04.440 was the third course that was built at the resort. 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:07.040 You know, we're doing these in reverse order, and so 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:10.360 that's why we're at Bandon Trails now. Designed by Bill 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:13.880 Corr and Ben Crenshaw. It was built in two thousand 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:17.000 and three two thousand and four, opened in two thousand 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:20.359 and five. Some of the associates on this project included 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:25.720 Tony Russell, Jim Craig, David Zincnd, Jeff Bradley, kind of 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:29.200 a murderer's row of shapers and great architects in their 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:32.960 own right at this point, just to kind of situate 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:37.440 people historically with the Bandon Dunees project and where Bandon 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:41.120 Trails was in that Bandon Dunes had opened in nineteen 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:45.360 ninety nine and had been a sensation. Pacific Dunes opened 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:48.200 in two thousand and one. I think it was right, 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:52.280 and that too was a sensation, right immediate entry into 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:55.919 you know, the top twenty in the world, and Bandon 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:58.400 Dunes had become a really really big deal. You know, 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:00.920 if you can imagine when Banded Dunes had one course, 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:04.400 it was, although it was an incredible course and everybody 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:07.200 knew about it, it was just one course way out 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:08.080 in the middle of nowhere. 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:11.240 It was like going and finding the great up and 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:15.360 coming band at a local dive bar, that you know. 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:18.560 And then when Pacific Dunes is when they started playing 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:23.720 at like relatively known locations and on a tour in cities. 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:29.200 And then I think, you know, Pacific Trails or Banded Trails, Jesus, 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:32.760 Pacific Trails Abandoned Trails is where you know, kind of 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:36.960 probably it launched the resort into you know, you know, 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:40.240 in the subsequent courses, really launched the resort into a 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:42.280 whole new stratosphere of superstardom. 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:44.000 That's when they started playing arenas. 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:45.480 Yeah, exactly. 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:49.600 Yeah, So that is the context in which Banded Trails 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:51.320 came about. And I think there was a lot of 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:54.200 pressure on it because Banded Dunes and Pacific Dunes had 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:58.080 been so well received. Both were on the ocean, in 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:04.040 these spectacular environments with great cliff top holes and everything 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:06.960 like that, and people knew very early on that Bandon 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:10.400 Trails would be a different kind of property. It wasn't 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:12.000 going to be on the cliffs, it was going to 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:14.320 be inland. There were parts of it that were even 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:17.000 going to be in the forest, and so there was 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:19.200 quite a bit of pressure on corn Crenshaw to sort 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:22.560 of live up to what band In Dunes and Pacific 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:26.960 Dunes had been. Now, Okay, so Bandon Trails was different 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.560 in a couple of ways. One way, obviously, is that 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.680 property that I talked about. Another is that Bill kre 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:35.200 and Ben Crenshaw were very well established at this time 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.400 in their career in a way that Tom Doak and 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:42.200 especially David Kidd were not when they built the first 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:45.600 two courses. So by this point corn Crenshaw had built 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:51.680 Kapalua sand Hills Friar's Head Old Sandwich just before Bandon Trails, 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:56.320 and so you know, they were already incredibly well regarded architects, 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:59.040 maybe the best regarded architects in the world of golf, 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.080 and here they come to do trails. 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:05.520 I think it's important to note here that this is 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:08.360 the first time that they worked with Mike Kaiser, Yeah, 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:11.719 which we then see, you know, they they were the 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:15.400 first course at Sand Valley, they were you know, they 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:18.240 did Cabot Cliffs and who knows what you know, they 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:21.440 might do in the future with with the Kaisers. But 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:26.080 you know, the this started the Core Crenshaw relationship there, 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:28.440 which we see more and more of. And obviously they 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:30.760 continue to work with Tom Doak and David Kidd, but 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:35.760 this is a significant point in terms of them working 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:40.000 with the Kaisers and building their most you know, publicly 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:44.160 popular courses you know, generally come from these big resorts, 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:46.840 and the Kaiser resorts are some of the most popular 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:50.279 golf destinations. So this is you know, Coren Crenshaw, you 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:52.839 know sand Hills and Friars Head or of courses that 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:55.800 nobody's going to see. You know, this is this is 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:59.160 a golf course that people could go see built by 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:01.599 Ben Ben Creunschhaw and Bill core. 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.280 And this is really an incredible error era for their 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:08.719 architecture because I think most people would agree that Friar's 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:11.520 Head and Old Sandwich are both among their best courses, 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:14.920 and that that is the time in their career when 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:18.400 they came to band In and built their first Kaiser 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:21.200 golf course, and then since then at Bandon you mentioned 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.480 some of the other courses that they've built at Kaiser 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:27.520 associated properties. They did band and Preserve and then they 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.800 did Sheep Ranch and so now at the Bandon Dunes Resort, 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:34.640 kren Crenshaw are the dominant architects. You know, Tom dok 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:37.560 has two eighteen whole courses there too, But you know, 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:41.440 Kaiser obviously liked what he saw from the trails project. 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.760 As of now three of the six courses. 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:47.760 All right. So that's all to say that there was 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.359 quite a bit of excitement about this project and some 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:54.680 trepidation on the part of Mike Kaiser and probably on 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:58.440 the part of kren Crenshaw as well, that you know, 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.280 this wouldn't work out as well. It wasn't. It wasn't 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:05.560 quite as splashy and exciting seeming as the first two 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:08.960 Bandon Dune's courses were, where you had up and coming 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:12.400 architects and you had these incredible sort of mind blowing 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:15.840 properties right by the sea. You know, where is this 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:20.280 new course that's kind of in this forest land area, 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:24.840 how is that going to fit into this resort? And 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:28.080 so recently you talked to Bill Krr And in fact, 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:30.400 this episode just came out a couple of weeks ago. 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:32.720 It came out on February first, so this is not 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:35.520 that long after it. But you talked to Bill Corr 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:39.440 about Bandon Trails and he told a great story about 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:43.880 essentially how the concept of the course design came about, 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:46.520 how they worked out how to tie together the property 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:49.320 and some of the decisions that went into that. And 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:52.560 we thought we would replay that clip here. Now, if 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:55.960 this is really fresh in your memory, then it's about 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:59.320 nine minutes and thirty seconds long, So just skip ahead 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:01.760 if you want. But even if you've listened to this once, 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:05.600 I think it's really worth listening to again because to 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:07.720 me it's just so interesting. 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:11.720 The whole thing on Banded Trails was really illuminating. 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:14.120 Yeah, very much. So, Okay, so here's that. 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:21.200 Clip Bandon Trails. 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:26.440 I'm quite smitten about that place, and you know, I 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:30.040 think it's at the resort. It's got its cult following 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:32.839 there among a lot of golf courses that are right 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:37.040 on the ocean, and I would love to hear a 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:42.800 little bit about the constructing the golf course and connecting 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:49.000 those very distinct different areas of the course, the different ecosystems, if. 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:50.479 You would say, you could say. 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:55.360 The ocean, the dunescape ocean holes with the meadow holes, 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:58.920 with the forest holes, and kind of how you guys 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:02.040 creatively weave that journey together. 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:08.559 Well, Andy, it was Bandon Trails began when Mike Kaiser called, 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:16.319 and I remember quite well the conversation telephone conversation. He said, Bill, 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:19.920 I'm thinking about doing a third golf course Abandon Dunes. 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:22.200 He said, it will not be on the ocean, so 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:24.880 you and Ben may not be interested, he said, but 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:28.360 I would just like to have the conversation to see 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:32.319 if you if you might be, and if you are, 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:35.480 would you come and take a look at the site. 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:44.640 And I remember then, Andy, I mean just said Mike, yeah, absolutely, 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:48.040 we would love to come sit. I've seen Bandon Dune's, 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:51.360 I've seen Pacific Dunes. It's just fantastic. We'd love to 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:53.120 do that. And it's not like the site has to 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.800 be on the ocean. It's not like we have to say, oh, 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.520 we've got to have the best site. If we can 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:03.600 do something that's that you and we and hopefully others 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:07.520 will thank complimentary to the whole goth experience there, then 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:10.560 let's take a look at it. He said, Okay, come on, 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:14.840 let's go. And so went out and did look at 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:20.760 the site at that particular time, Andy, Mike and Howard McKee, 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:24.640 you know McKee's pub. Howard McKee who's passed on, but 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:29.200 did all the planning and permitting and everything for Bandon 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:32.240 Dunes and for Mike, and it was a fabulous architect too, 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:38.040 brilliant guy. But they had they had thought that abandoned 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:42.880 trails would be all east of the big dune ridge 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:45.040 back in the forest. 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:48.360 And that dune ridge is the dune ridge that runs 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:53.960 through from the hotel really the lodge, all the way across, 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:56.880 you know, like two at Bandon Dunes plays into it, 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:01.400 and then eighteen at Pacific and plays along it, and 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:04.760 Old Mac plays over it on the third hole. So 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:08.160 that's the dunes ridge, and it'd be east inland of that. 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:12.000 Yes, but it extends down the coast. It's just a 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:17.600 giant dune ridge there. And so originally Howard and Mike said, 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:19.560 let's build it back in the forest. 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:22.120 It'll be more protected from the wind. 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:28.520 And I went out there with that understanding, and I 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:31.160 went back and I wandered back there as best you could. 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:33.280 It was very hard to get through because of the 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.920 trees and the gorse and things. There were trails though, 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:41.200 there were both animal trails and a couple of hiking 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:45.840 trails that went back through there, and. 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:49.680 I would just look at it. I went out for. 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:54.760 A number of days, but each time I was staying 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:58.719 in the lodge, there abandoned dunes and I would walk out, 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:02.120 and each day I would walk out and I'd look 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:06.440 at the dunes what's now number one and eighteen abandoned trails, 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:09.480 and there was a trail that I walked on through 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:12.400 those dunes, and I walked out through what's now number 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:16.920 five and number seventeen, the two part threes there what 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:22.040 we called the meadow area. And then i'd walk and 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:24.800 get and go around the bottom end of the big 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:30.520 dune and back into the forest. And each day andy 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:34.040 i'd come back, I go I could see, I guess 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:37.079 putting it all over here in the forest. And then 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:40.160 one day Mike Causer was out there an hour and 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:43.520 I just remember looking at both of them and I go, 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:48.040 you know, guys, this is after all called Bandon Dunes. 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:54.160 What if we start in the dunes and work our 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:59.480 way to the forest. And Mike was going, well, I 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:01.439 kind of like I might how are you going to 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:01.880 do that? 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:02.240 Though? 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:05.680 And uh, well, I don't know, but it might be 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.000 interesting that the more I've walked out there, it's three 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:12.600 distinctly different environments dunes again what we call the meadow 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:15.679 with the beautiful but the beautiful trees and the connect 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:19.319 and neck and the ground vegetation and sand, and and 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:19.840 then of. 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:21.920 Course in the Pacific Northwest forest. 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:25.400 And so I'm not quite sure, but I think maybe 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:27.760 there could be a way. And Mike said, well, how 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.320 are you going to get over the big the big ridge? 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:33.120 And I'm not sure about that either, cause I know 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:34.840 we can go at the bottom end of it where 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.960 it's it's much smaller, which is down where six Green 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:39.480 is seventy. 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:41.920 So that was a big lynch pans that you. 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:43.760 Could get around that way. It's just how you were 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:47.560 going to get back across. And but the more just 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.240 wandered out there and undered out, and Ben came out 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.480 and we just kind of you know, we looked at 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:57.800 it and it just it just seemed certainly to me 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:01.439 and Ben was in agreement this it could be interesting 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:09.040 to tie those three elements environments together. And Mike was 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:14.640 so as he's always been so supportive, and even though 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.120 it didn't fit what he was thinking of in the beginning, 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.680 he was open to it. And Howard McKee, who had 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:26.720 permitted everything there, and Howard was Howard whom I just 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:30.720 absolutely told was one of the most amazing human beings 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:33.640 I've ever met, and talented people. But I would have 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:36.760 dinner with Howard quite often and he go, Bill, I 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:41.280 don't know. I just don't know, he said. He said, 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:43.800 first of all, he said, we're getting ready to dedicate 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:47.040 a lot of this dunes area and to preserve and 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:51.560 he said secondly, he said, that area where you go 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:55.160 through you call the meadow. He said, that may be 0:14:55.320 --> 0:15:00.760 the prettiest property on this entire all abandoned. Do sight, 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:03.520 you know, he said, I just don't know how you're 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:06.360 gonna do golf out there, he goes, but maybe you 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:11.240 could convince me. And Howard too was open minded. And 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:12.640 the more we looked at it and the more he 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:17.040 tried to piece some holes together in the routing. He said, 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:20.720 all right, all right. I remember distinctly him calling me. 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:24.000 They were met me out there where the old road 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:26.920 used to go in to the main road in the 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:30.280 abandoned dunes. You hit over now on the third T 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:34.960 and the eighteenth T. And Howard and Mike are both going, 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:37.160 you're gonna play over the main entry road. 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:41.120 Well we did. We've all seen places you do it 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.040 a lot, and they go, okay, that's okay. 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:48.080 But Howard came out there and then he just said, Bill, 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:54.000 you have one thousand feet one thousand feet from this 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:59.080 road towards the ocean. He said, that's it. You can't 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.920 go one inch more. He said, I've talked to the 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:07.440 you know, all the agencies, the state agencies, the county agencies. 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:10.240 We can get you that much that strip of dunes, 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.120 which is exactly where one in the two and eighteen 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:18.280 or he said, So you've got that nothing more. And 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:19.720 then he looked at me and he said, and if 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:23.640 you mess this up in this medal out here, I'm 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:26.640 just gonna kill you. He said, this is my favorite 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:31.400 place in the entire resort. And I said, Howard, look 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.400 at this because what's now the fifth hole, the little 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:37.080 part three, the green was there. You were talking earlier 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:39.120 about greens. It was there, the big trough in the 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:41.760 middle of it. It just graded it off enough to 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:45.840 put some pins on it. The green at seventeen was 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.960 more or less there, and all the stuff in between. 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.400 So it was it was like, Howard, we're gonna build 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:55.320 two part three's in your metal here, one going this way, 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:57.760 one gone that we will do very little disturbance. 0:16:58.160 --> 0:16:59.600 And he goes okay. 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:06.200 So anyway, that's that's when it linked together and people say, well, 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:09.240 where did the name trails come from? It came from 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:13.560 trails because there were hiking trails out there, particularly through 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:17.440 the meadow part the dunes and the meadow, but then 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:20.439 there were animal trails over the big dune ridge and 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.880 back into the east. So I used to literally walk 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:26.679 around all of those trails. And so when Mike and 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:30.200 everybody was talking about what would the name be, I 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:33.120 just go, well, there's a lot of trails out there. 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:35.240 So they said, all right, Bandon trails. 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:48.200 All right, So that's how Bandon trails became Bandon Trails. Now, 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:51.800 one thing I think that didn't necessarily come through in 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:56.679 Bill's memory of the construction is that tying together these 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:02.520 three environments was a really big, big concern during the project. 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:06.359 They were actually very worried about it. And this is 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.280 something that comes out and Stephen Goodwin's book Dream Golf 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:11.760 that you know, I've been mentioning from time to time 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:17.160 in these deep dives, they were actively thinking like, this 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:19.600 might not work, we might not be able to do this. 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:21.400 I think that's the thing. 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:25.200 Sometimes when you have a golf course that moves into 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:30.240 different distinct environments, you can get a feel of disjointedness 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:34.560 and it cannot tie together right, and it cannot blend 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:38.439 together right. And obviously, you know, a good example of 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.320 a golf course that does it really well is one 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.800 of Bill Corr's favorites, who he's talked about a great 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:47.800 deal about the routing, how he is enamored with it 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:51.560 as Cyprus Point. But then there's you know, probably everybody 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:54.960 here has played a golf course where you all of 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:57.040 a sudden are like, ah, this, this is out of 0:18:57.080 --> 0:18:59.520 the blue. I didn't know this was coming. And I 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:02.320 don't know if I necessarily like moving into this environment, 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:04.840 and then you go back into a different environment, you're 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:06.879 like Ah, it would be nice if they could have 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:09.680 just had that the whole way around, you know. And 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.480 I think that's that's something that a lot of courses face, 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:18.840 and tying together different environments. Obviously a banded trails, there's 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:20.960 three of them. They have the dunes, the meadow, in 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:24.760 the in the forest, and tying together those parts and 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.160 making it feel like the same golf course and feel 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:31.679 you know, like a you know, a well put together story. 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:34.280 It's just like if you're writing something, it's sometimes hard 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:38.920 to change topics right and tie those topics together back together. 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.480 They do it so well here, and I think part 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:44.240 of it is the way that the golf course starts 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:48.000 and ends in one spot and then visits and you know, 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:50.480 and revisits to the different other areas. 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:54.880 Yeah, very successful and not easy to do. I mean, 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:58.240 it seems that when you just play the finished product, 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:00.679 it seems like it was easy. It seems like it 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:03.199 was natural that it would be this way. But I 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:06.239 think it can't be overstated, like how hard it is 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:09.400 to pull this off and do it well. Cypress Point 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:11.800 you mentioned as an example of a course that obviously 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:15.000 does this well. Now, there was another course that was 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:18.680 specifically on Mike Kaiser's mind when Bandon Trails was being 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:22.040 built as an example of a course where it's not 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:25.720 as successful tying the environments together, and it's very close 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:26.560 to Cypress Point. 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:31.680 Yeah, spy Glass, So Spyglass is obviously always the victim 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:36.320 of this. It's a perfect example of this is where 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:39.480 you play the first five holes and they're spectacular, they're 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:42.480 on the ocean, you know, and then the rest of 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:44.800 the round you're climbing up a hill in a forest 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:48.560 and there's artificial ponds and it just you're just kind 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:51.520 of like, oh, that's a different golf course. And I 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:54.200 always say it should be just flip the nines. It 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:56.240 would get a lot better. It would be a lot 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:58.600 more coherent of a story because you'd start up in 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:00.840 the forest and then you play down and then back 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:04.680 up into the forest. But like this, that's a good 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:09.560 example of a golf course that just doesn't feel together, 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:15.120 jointed in its current routing and journey that you go on. 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:18.520 Like it, it wouldn't be the way as Bill Bill 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:21.680 always says, you know, he talks about routing a course 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:24.119 the way you'd walk a course the first time of 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:27.080 property the first time, and I don't necessarily think that'd 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:30.680 be the way you'd walk Spyglass, but I certainly think 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:34.719 it would be the way very similar way you'd walk 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:36.000 bandoned trails. 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:39.000 Right now, I think that an underrated part of what 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:41.920 makes Spyglass not quite working. I don't want to dump 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:44.520 on Spyglass too much here because I think it's a 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:45.720 terrific golf course. 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:48.240 You lived right next door to it for a while. 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:50.800 I know. Yeah, so I lived at Stephenson School, which 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:54.280 is a boarding school that literally is right next to 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:58.840 Spyglass Hill golf course. Stephenson School is right between Spyglass 0:21:58.840 --> 0:22:01.399 and Poppy Hills, so it's Pop on one side, Spyglass 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:03.919 on the other. And yeah, I was really close to it. 0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:06.400 And in fact, actually it's great at spy Glass because 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:08.359 there are little trails that go through the course that 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:10.760 are public. You can just go walk through that golf course. 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:13.360 It's not a problem. And we did it all the time. 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:14.840 You know, my kids were young. We'd put them in 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:17.800 the strollers and we would be off and taking these 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:23.120 wonderfully beautiful walks in the forest, which is an incredible environment. 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:25.119 And so, you know, I don't want to say that 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:28.040 Spyglass Hill is a terrible golf course. It's really not. 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:32.200 It's very, very, very good, but it doesn't quite link 0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:35.280 up those two different parts of its identity. And I 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:37.399 think that one reason for that is that the holes 0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:40.960 that are in the dunes are different in more ways 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:44.200 than the holes that are up in the forest than 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:46.560 just the fact that they're in the dunes. The holes 0:22:46.600 --> 0:22:50.959 in the dunes are shorter, they're a quirkier, they just 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:53.639 look different. Overall that the shaping is kind of different. 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:56.760 The greens sit in different types of places. The green 0:22:56.840 --> 0:22:59.480 shapes are very different. You know that the fourth green 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:03.000 is this crazy, like, you know, narrow long thing that 0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:06.480 you never saw Robert tran Jones do something like that again, 0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:09.840