WEBVTT - Neneh Cherry 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:22.676 Pushkin. Hey y'all, today we are welcoming the Swedish born 0:00:22.756 --> 0:00:26.196 singer Nana Cherry to the show. Nana's four decade long 0:00:26.316 --> 0:00:30.556 career has ricocheted between a number of genres, including hip hop, jazz, 0:00:30.636 --> 0:00:33.876 trip pop, and punk. Her first single in eighty eight, 0:00:33.916 --> 0:00:37.396 Buffalo Stance, cemented her standing as a no nonsense black 0:00:37.396 --> 0:00:41.276 feminist voice in contemporary urban music. Cherry was living in 0:00:41.356 --> 0:00:44.076 London when her debut album Raw Like Sushi was released. 0:00:44.516 --> 0:00:47.636 At the time, she was collaborating with genre defining nineties 0:00:47.676 --> 0:00:50.436 electro dance acts like sold A Soul and Massive Attack. 0:00:51.236 --> 0:00:54.316 This year, Non released her sixth album, The Versions. It's 0:00:54.316 --> 0:00:56.876 a collection of cover songs of some of Cherry's biggest 0:00:56.916 --> 0:01:00.996 hits and is performed exclusively by female artists, including Robin 0:01:01.236 --> 0:01:05.516 Sia and Nana's daughter Tyson. On today's episode, Bruce Hellam 0:01:05.596 --> 0:01:08.596 talks to Nana Cherry about her bohemian upbringing in Sweden, 0:01:08.716 --> 0:01:12.676 New York and London. Was stepdad Don Cherry, the famous 0:01:12.756 --> 0:01:16.316 jazz trumpetist. Nana also recalls how she first met the 0:01:16.396 --> 0:01:20.196 legendary all girl punk group The Slits and why despite 0:01:20.196 --> 0:01:22.916 scoring her first big hit with a cheeky rat verse. 0:01:23.316 --> 0:01:30.196 She never considered herself a real MC. This is broken 0:01:30.236 --> 0:01:33.636 record liner notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. 0:01:34.276 --> 0:01:37.476 Here's Bruce Hudlam with Nana Cherry. So we're here to 0:01:37.476 --> 0:01:40.556 talk about the new album, which is The Versions, Yes, 0:01:40.756 --> 0:01:44.356 which is your first in four or five years, right, yeah, 0:01:44.356 --> 0:01:46.876 And it's a kind of new style of album because 0:01:46.916 --> 0:01:50.476 I'm not really on it so m which has been 0:01:50.636 --> 0:01:54.236 kind of an incredible experience. Is your voice snuck in 0:01:54.316 --> 0:01:56.436 here or there? I thought I heard it. I don't 0:01:56.676 --> 0:02:00.196 know whether it's someone has sampled it or but you know, 0:02:00.276 --> 0:02:05.236 it's really an idea that was hatched after the reissue 0:02:05.276 --> 0:02:09.996 of Rolling Sus she came out. Honey Dijon, my beloved 0:02:09.996 --> 0:02:14.236 Honey Dijon made a remix of Buddy X, which kind 0:02:14.236 --> 0:02:16.196 of came out at the same time, and that kind 0:02:16.196 --> 0:02:20.236 of then hatched an idea to well, to ask other 0:02:20.356 --> 0:02:23.756 people to cover the songs. Initially it was going to 0:02:23.836 --> 0:02:27.516 be just the songs on Roll Like Sushi. We were like, well, 0:02:27.636 --> 0:02:31.316 let's reach out to like, for instance, Robin, who's a 0:02:31.356 --> 0:02:35.356 great friend and my sister and someone I really consider 0:02:35.716 --> 0:02:39.476 to be a great inspiration. But like I also know 0:02:39.596 --> 0:02:42.836 that she kind of grew up with role like sushi, 0:02:42.956 --> 0:02:45.476 so in a way, it was a kind of no brainer. 0:02:45.556 --> 0:02:48.436 So she was maybe one of the first people that 0:02:48.516 --> 0:02:53.476 we asked, and then saying Abousset, who is also a 0:02:53.516 --> 0:02:58.956 Swedish artist with Gambian background, She's amazing, and then it 0:02:59.076 --> 0:03:02.956 just again it was like a funny little domino effect, 0:03:03.356 --> 0:03:06.396 and it was just kind of a joy because I 0:03:06.476 --> 0:03:11.596 was like just reaching out like the artists that I 0:03:11.676 --> 0:03:16.596 was listening to that seemed to be out there being 0:03:17.276 --> 0:03:21.356 very much themselves and kind of breaking new molds, you know, 0:03:21.476 --> 0:03:26.316 so females. I mean, it's a female led project. You know, 0:03:26.916 --> 0:03:30.716 just looking over your career, you don't seem like someone 0:03:30.716 --> 0:03:35.356 who likes revisiting things. Every album is something new. Broken 0:03:35.396 --> 0:03:39.436 Politics is different than the album before. The album before 0:03:39.476 --> 0:03:42.476 that was the Jazz record. What's it like to go 0:03:42.556 --> 0:03:47.316 back and revisit things. I think there is something quite 0:03:47.356 --> 0:03:52.996 important about revisiting things. And You're right, I have always 0:03:53.276 --> 0:03:58.236 been slightly allergic to relying on the past. I've always 0:03:58.276 --> 0:04:03.036 felt like I want to move forward because I feel 0:04:03.036 --> 0:04:06.716 so unfinished and I feel like I'm always battling with 0:04:06.796 --> 0:04:12.516 my own insecurity and demons, as in, like the things 0:04:12.596 --> 0:04:17.076 around me that question whether not necessarily whether I'm doing 0:04:17.116 --> 0:04:20.956 things good enough, but whether I'm reaching the things that 0:04:21.116 --> 0:04:23.796 I feel that I need, that I want to tap 0:04:23.876 --> 0:04:28.956 into or express or to be open enough for those 0:04:28.996 --> 0:04:33.516 things to flow out. Yeah, and also like being a 0:04:33.516 --> 0:04:35.876 bit scared of getting caught in some sort of like 0:04:35.876 --> 0:04:40.236 a karaoke hell hole, you know, where you're just relying 0:04:40.556 --> 0:04:45.036 on and rehatching things that have already been done because 0:04:45.076 --> 0:04:48.556 that's what people maybe recognize or know the best. Or 0:04:48.956 --> 0:04:53.836 I mean, I'm fifty eight and maybe in that movement 0:04:53.996 --> 0:04:59.716 of looking forward, always kind of pushed through and pushed ahead. 0:05:00.876 --> 0:05:03.876 Hopefully maybe if I'm lucky, I'm just like a little 0:05:03.876 --> 0:05:07.916 bit over halfway through my life. I think it's important 0:05:07.956 --> 0:05:12.196 to kind of take stop so revisiting these songs because 0:05:12.196 --> 0:05:14.396 I think that's kind of what you were asking has 0:05:14.436 --> 0:05:18.436 become a very beautiful thing, especially as it's through the 0:05:18.516 --> 0:05:22.636 eyes of other people. And and a lot of the 0:05:22.756 --> 0:05:26.076 artists are kind of another generation to me, a younger generation. 0:05:26.916 --> 0:05:29.316 I mean, Okay, we try not to over obsess, but 0:05:29.436 --> 0:05:32.516 you know, you hope that when you have a good song, 0:05:33.236 --> 0:05:37.476 that that song has its own legs that other people 0:05:37.516 --> 0:05:40.316 can use to walk or run with, you know. And 0:05:40.396 --> 0:05:46.916 so it's been like a very cathartic but beautiful journey, 0:05:47.356 --> 0:05:50.796 and I feel very connected to all of the different 0:05:50.996 --> 0:05:55.716 artists that have Sudan archives. Kelsey Loon, Green, Tea Pang, 0:05:55.756 --> 0:05:58.836 My daughter Tyson did a song, your daughter who was 0:05:58.876 --> 0:06:02.596 a famous history with Buffalo Stance. Yeah, she was in utero, 0:06:02.796 --> 0:06:09.236 she was. She was in utero throughout most of the 0:06:09.236 --> 0:06:13.196 the journey of making the album, and you know, Top 0:06:13.236 --> 0:06:15.676 of the Pops and the kind of early days you 0:06:15.756 --> 0:06:19.116 get criticized from being pregnant on the people wrote about 0:06:19.116 --> 0:06:22.676 it like you were it was child abuse, or you'd 0:06:22.676 --> 0:06:26.356 thrown yourself down the stairs in a Victorian novel or something, yeah, 0:06:26.476 --> 0:06:28.196 or like you know, I was going to hurt the 0:06:28.316 --> 0:06:31.436 child dancing around and you know that I should be 0:06:31.476 --> 0:06:35.276 draped in a big black cape or something. And definitely 0:06:35.636 --> 0:06:38.996 not on Top of the Pops, which was like the 0:06:39.036 --> 0:06:42.756 biggest thing that happened on a once a week on television, 0:06:42.876 --> 0:06:45.556 you know. I mean, I wasn't trying to be some 0:06:45.716 --> 0:06:47.756 kind of a game changer, do you know what I mean? 0:06:47.796 --> 0:06:50.036 Like a lot of people are like, oh wow, that 0:06:50.156 --> 0:06:53.796 was so like amazing. I was just pregnant and and 0:06:53.836 --> 0:06:57.236 I didn't want to hide it and also like wanting 0:06:57.316 --> 0:07:00.196 to do things in a different way. And I think 0:07:00.356 --> 0:07:04.036 before I put out Buffalo Stance and before I started 0:07:04.076 --> 0:07:07.396 working on role like Sushi, I had always been in 0:07:07.476 --> 0:07:11.236 bands and I'd always in and like that family, you know, 0:07:11.236 --> 0:07:12.556 And it was so it was the first time that 0:07:12.596 --> 0:07:16.596 I kind of stepped out by myself and I felt 0:07:16.716 --> 0:07:21.676 very well in a kind of fighting spirit of like, yes, 0:07:21.956 --> 0:07:26.036 I am here, I am a young woman, but I'm 0:07:26.076 --> 0:07:31.836 going to step over the loop holes. He was like, 0:07:32.476 --> 0:07:36.156 we're going to kick the door down instead of strutting 0:07:36.156 --> 0:07:40.996 out uncomfortably in a pair of uncomfortable heels. I want 0:07:41.036 --> 0:07:42.476 to get back to that album and of course the 0:07:42.516 --> 0:07:45.116 new album. But we should talk a bit about your background. 0:07:45.356 --> 0:07:48.396 You grew up in this bohemian family. Your stepfather was 0:07:49.236 --> 0:07:53.596 famous jazz trumpet player Don Cherry, who played with Ornette 0:07:53.636 --> 0:07:57.676 Coleman and John Coltrane. And tell us about your mother 0:07:57.676 --> 0:08:01.196 as well. My mother's name was Moki Cherry, and she 0:08:01.516 --> 0:08:05.396 was an incredible woman. She was an artist. She was 0:08:05.436 --> 0:08:10.476 a very creative person. I think when Don came the 0:08:10.516 --> 0:08:12.876 first time he came to Sweden. He was playing with 0:08:12.996 --> 0:08:16.476 Archie Shepp in the concert who setting stock on the 0:08:16.556 --> 0:08:19.596 concert house, and it was the famous night at the 0:08:19.676 --> 0:08:23.956 concert house when the basement caught on fire, you know, 0:08:23.956 --> 0:08:27.396 and everyone or anyone that was there will refer to 0:08:27.436 --> 0:08:30.716 it as the night the stage caught on fire and 0:08:30.836 --> 0:08:35.916 no one moved, you know, because the music was hotter 0:08:37.836 --> 0:08:40.596 then the flames were going to be. There was smoke 0:08:40.676 --> 0:08:42.916 coming up through the stage, and you know, people were 0:08:42.956 --> 0:08:47.196 just sitting there and I don't know whether they just 0:08:47.396 --> 0:08:51.396 kind of put the fire out downstairs or whether they 0:08:51.436 --> 0:08:53.956 took a break, but I think they just kept playing. 0:08:54.436 --> 0:08:58.516 And I know that when Don saw my mother and 0:08:58.596 --> 0:09:01.236 he said, oh he was. She was wearing this bamboo 0:09:01.316 --> 0:09:05.556 glasses and this kind of leather skirt thing that she'd made, 0:09:05.596 --> 0:09:10.156 and she she was MOOKI was always ahead of her time, 0:09:10.596 --> 0:09:14.476 and so he definitely saw her. And then he came 0:09:14.476 --> 0:09:16.556 back a few months later, and that's kind of when 0:09:16.556 --> 0:09:20.876 they got together. My mother was someone who I think, 0:09:20.916 --> 0:09:24.116 from like a really young age, knew that she wanted to, 0:09:24.876 --> 0:09:27.796 you know, in her own way and through her own voice, 0:09:28.596 --> 0:09:30.876 be a part of making the world a more beautiful 0:09:30.916 --> 0:09:34.956 place and they collaborated on things. They collaborated, you know, 0:09:35.036 --> 0:09:39.436 for many years. I mean, their life story until they 0:09:39.436 --> 0:09:44.436 couldn't live together anymore, was was a collaboration, you know. 0:09:44.836 --> 0:09:51.116 And I think the thing that's very important to to recognize, 0:09:51.276 --> 0:09:55.076 but I think that anyone that knew Moki and knew 0:09:55.156 --> 0:09:59.316 down would say that she made it possible, like she 0:09:59.436 --> 0:10:03.916 helped him find his wings, you know. And there's a 0:10:03.956 --> 0:10:08.236 cute story where the first time they had slept together, 0:10:08.396 --> 0:10:11.556 you know, spend a night together, Don had fallen asleep 0:10:11.556 --> 0:10:14.276 and when he woke up, she had died his long 0:10:14.356 --> 0:10:19.516 underwear pink and it was like she'd probably done that 0:10:19.556 --> 0:10:22.516 in a in a pot on the stove. You know. 0:10:23.116 --> 0:10:25.596 We didn't have a washing machine in those days. So 0:10:25.996 --> 0:10:28.316 and they were just probably hanging on a line in 0:10:28.356 --> 0:10:31.836 the in the room. Well that's when you know you've overslept, Yeah, 0:10:32.716 --> 0:10:35.196 die were you just waking up just at the right time. 0:10:36.116 --> 0:10:41.316 But um, so you know they had a very creative relationship. 0:10:41.596 --> 0:10:43.676 So what was that like growing up in that household? 0:10:44.316 --> 0:10:47.476 I mean, that's quite a difficult question to answer. In 0:10:47.516 --> 0:10:49.916 a way, I feel such a great sense of kind 0:10:49.956 --> 0:10:53.036 of privilege that I grew up in the world that 0:10:53.116 --> 0:10:55.316 I grew up in, you know, like it's such a 0:10:55.636 --> 0:10:58.796 it's such a blessing. I mean, I guess I heard 0:10:58.876 --> 0:11:02.036 music before I was born, right, And I think that 0:11:02.116 --> 0:11:06.756 like the world that was within our house, it didn't 0:11:06.796 --> 0:11:09.916 look like anywhere else around in the neighborhoo, you know, 0:11:09.996 --> 0:11:13.636 which was kind of sort of stressful for me sometimes 0:11:14.556 --> 0:11:18.236 because I wanted to a certain degree, even though I 0:11:18.316 --> 0:11:21.036 was very much at home in my home, but for 0:11:21.076 --> 0:11:24.876 it to be like everybody else's homes, you know, and 0:11:24.916 --> 0:11:27.436 we had like we would sit on the floor, you 0:11:27.476 --> 0:11:29.236 know what I mean. We didn't have a couch. We 0:11:29.276 --> 0:11:32.356 had a low cut table. Then eventually we did have 0:11:32.396 --> 0:11:35.836 a couch, but you know, we ate lentils and brown 0:11:35.956 --> 0:11:41.236 rice and we didn't eat mashed potatoes. And you know, 0:11:41.556 --> 0:11:43.796 I would also like to stress because I think that 0:11:44.396 --> 0:11:47.236 something that I fight with is this sort of people's 0:11:47.236 --> 0:11:51.036 opinions of like, oh, it was all very I mean, 0:11:51.076 --> 0:11:54.316 the word bohemian, I think is more respectful than oh, 0:11:54.356 --> 0:11:56.476 you guys were just a bunch of hippies, and you know, 0:11:56.516 --> 0:12:00.516 everyone just sort of laid around and smoked a lot 0:12:00.556 --> 0:12:04.316 of weed, and you know, and yeah, okay, people smoke 0:12:04.396 --> 0:12:09.236 some weed. But I think that sometimes it overrides the 0:12:09.276 --> 0:12:13.516 incredible process that people like my parents and a lot 0:12:13.556 --> 0:12:17.436 of their peers put into the work that they did, 0:12:17.516 --> 0:12:21.676 which was very serious. You know, there was an absolute 0:12:22.156 --> 0:12:30.596 commitment to the journey the work. You know, on a social, political, family, life, 0:12:31.036 --> 0:12:34.996 sonic level. Do you have the same work habits as 0:12:35.036 --> 0:12:39.556 your parents? No? You know, Don played all day every 0:12:39.636 --> 0:12:42.956 day he was with his instruments, walking down the street. 0:12:43.036 --> 0:12:46.836 He would play the flute or his Hunter's guitar from 0:12:46.836 --> 0:12:51.316 Molly the Dzunguni. I mean, it was just a part 0:12:51.356 --> 0:12:56.796 of the movement, his movement. You know, I can hand 0:12:56.836 --> 0:13:00.516 on heart say that I wish, if I had any 0:13:00.556 --> 0:13:05.076 regrets in my life, that I had worked harder, been 0:13:05.116 --> 0:13:11.036 more disciplined with my songwriting and making music all the time. 0:13:11.076 --> 0:13:13.836 I think sometimes I've finished an album and then I've 0:13:13.916 --> 0:13:17.276 kind of closed the door and kind of gone out 0:13:17.356 --> 0:13:22.156 into life and not stayed with it. And I think 0:13:22.196 --> 0:13:26.796 my mother's process, I mean, being a woman and running 0:13:26.836 --> 0:13:30.676 a house and a family that consumed I mean the 0:13:30.876 --> 0:13:35.156 same as for me, consumed a lot of her time, 0:13:35.236 --> 0:13:38.436 and for her it was also a schlep sometimes but 0:13:38.596 --> 0:13:42.036 also a part of her creative process in a way. 0:13:43.036 --> 0:13:46.676 But it also took her away from her art, and 0:13:46.716 --> 0:13:49.196 I know that she really struggled with that. But when 0:13:49.236 --> 0:13:55.276 she worked, she really worked incredibly hard. It's something I've heard, 0:13:55.356 --> 0:13:57.876 you know, from a lot of female artistside, yeah, interviewed 0:13:57.916 --> 0:14:00.036 if they're a bit older, and I'll say, oh, you 0:14:00.076 --> 0:14:01.836 took some time off. They're like, well, yeah, I had 0:14:01.876 --> 0:14:04.676 a family. Yeah. You know, Mick Jagger doesn't take time 0:14:04.716 --> 0:14:08.636 off when he is a family. No, he doesn't ask to. 0:14:10.836 --> 0:14:13.796 So what kind of kid were you then growing up? 0:14:14.276 --> 0:14:17.356 I mean, I think I've always been quite independent. We 0:14:17.476 --> 0:14:20.196 lived on Ninth Street and Second Avenue when I was 0:14:20.236 --> 0:14:24.676 about eight, and we'd been before we moved into that place. 0:14:24.716 --> 0:14:27.196 We'd been staying at the Chelsea Hotel where I've just 0:14:27.276 --> 0:14:30.516 come from today, and I had a friend there who 0:14:30.596 --> 0:14:33.956 was the daughter of a painter called Our Loving I believe, 0:14:34.316 --> 0:14:36.916 and she was living in the Chelsea too. We'd moved 0:14:36.916 --> 0:14:39.156 to nine Street and when we got down to ninth 0:14:39.156 --> 0:14:40.716 Street after a couple of days, I was like, oh, 0:14:40.716 --> 0:14:43.436 I want to see Anne, and my mother went, okay, 0:14:43.436 --> 0:14:46.716 well you can walk there. So if you go all 0:14:46.756 --> 0:14:49.796 the way on Second Avenue to twenty third Street, and 0:14:49.836 --> 0:14:52.156 then you go all the way up on twenty third 0:14:52.236 --> 0:14:55.116 Street to whatever eighth and between seventh and eighth and 0:14:55.156 --> 0:14:58.396 eighth and ninth, you'll get there. And you know, I 0:14:58.516 --> 0:15:01.116 did that, and I think now like I would never 0:15:01.276 --> 0:15:05.996 have set out well on one of those walks. So 0:15:06.076 --> 0:15:11.956 I think I was quite independent and very sensitive, but 0:15:12.156 --> 0:15:17.716 also determined to be okay. And I think sometimes that 0:15:17.836 --> 0:15:22.876 determination has meant that I have also shut down certain 0:15:22.956 --> 0:15:25.876 things to kind of feel all right, which I've dealt 0:15:25.876 --> 0:15:30.796 with later in life, stress or difficult things for everything 0:15:30.836 --> 0:15:33.276 to kind of to be fine. And you know, there 0:15:33.356 --> 0:15:36.756 was a big contrast, of course between like being in 0:15:36.796 --> 0:15:40.236 the forest in Sweden where my parents bought a house 0:15:40.276 --> 0:15:44.236 in nineteen seventy an old schoolhouse, and then on a 0:15:44.316 --> 0:15:47.356 regular basis coming to live in New York, which I'm 0:15:47.836 --> 0:15:50.676 so thankful for because I think I would have been 0:15:50.676 --> 0:15:53.716 a very different person if I had just spent the 0:15:53.756 --> 0:15:57.756 first sixteen years of my life in Sweden. We're gonna 0:15:57.756 --> 0:15:59.556 take a quick break, but we'll be right back with 0:15:59.636 --> 0:16:06.356 more from Bruce Heedlam and Nana Cherry. We're back with 0:16:06.396 --> 0:16:09.836 more of Bruce Helam's conversation with Nana Cherry. Do you 0:16:09.836 --> 0:16:13.596 remember forming your own musical taste. I mean your stepdad 0:16:13.636 --> 0:16:16.196 was playing trumpet all the time, because that's what professional 0:16:16.316 --> 0:16:18.756 jazz musicians have to do. Was there a point you 0:16:18.796 --> 0:16:21.516 were listening to something else and saying, well, this is 0:16:21.556 --> 0:16:24.356 what I wanted with the Beatles, whatever it was. I mean, 0:16:25.076 --> 0:16:29.596 the problem is it's a problem is that if you 0:16:29.716 --> 0:16:33.516 look into the record collection that we still have, which 0:16:33.596 --> 0:16:36.076 was like the record collection that I grew up with, 0:16:36.116 --> 0:16:38.796 obviously things have been added to it over the years. 0:16:39.436 --> 0:16:44.236 It was such a mixture of stuff. So like my 0:16:44.316 --> 0:16:51.316 parents listened to everything from like recording made in the 0:16:51.436 --> 0:16:57.396 rainforest in in Zaire to the Commodores or the Rolling 0:16:57.436 --> 0:17:02.156 Stones or you know, so within that music I found 0:17:02.196 --> 0:17:05.956 my own shit. You know, like don bought and he 0:17:06.036 --> 0:17:09.556 was always like buying whatever was coming out. So I 0:17:09.556 --> 0:17:13.276 can remember being like six and listening to the Jackson five, 0:17:13.556 --> 0:17:17.036 the first Diana Ross Presents to Jackson five or Sly 0:17:17.116 --> 0:17:21.756 in the Family Stone and having favorites. I mean growing 0:17:21.836 --> 0:17:24.036 up in Sweden in the seventies, I mean all my 0:17:24.116 --> 0:17:27.476 friends were listening to like English music like the Sweet 0:17:27.556 --> 0:17:30.076 and a lot of my friends at school were like 0:17:30.116 --> 0:17:32.916 into Donnie Osmond and stuff, and I was, you know, 0:17:33.196 --> 0:17:37.116 it was like kind of surreal. And of course some 0:17:37.196 --> 0:17:40.316 of those classic like Sparks records and some of those 0:17:40.436 --> 0:17:45.956 you know, British kind of glam pop tunes. Abba. Yeah, 0:17:45.996 --> 0:17:48.556 you know. I spent a whole summer like miming to 0:17:49.036 --> 0:17:51.436 Abba songs with my friend. We did a whole show. 0:17:52.356 --> 0:17:54.636 And then I, like I was eleven, I went to 0:17:54.836 --> 0:17:59.276 LA to stay with my family there and I discovered 0:17:59.356 --> 0:18:02.036 like songs in the Key of Life Stevie Wonder and 0:18:02.156 --> 0:18:06.356 Johnny Guitar Watson and so it's all these parallels. And 0:18:06.396 --> 0:18:10.516 then at like fifteen fourteen fifteen, I got into punk. 0:18:11.356 --> 0:18:13.796 It was punk. Was that what told you that you 0:18:13.836 --> 0:18:16.476 wanted to do this for a living? Yeah? I think 0:18:16.516 --> 0:18:18.716 so it was there a song or an album that 0:18:19.236 --> 0:18:24.756 just grabbed you. X rayspects poly Styrene for sure. I 0:18:24.796 --> 0:18:28.476 think also her being like one of the only other 0:18:28.516 --> 0:18:31.196 women of color like on the punk scene there really 0:18:31.236 --> 0:18:35.476 wasn't that that many was obviously a thing. And then 0:18:35.516 --> 0:18:39.276 just her vibe but like she had braces on her teeth, 0:18:39.836 --> 0:18:43.356 she just made it looked so amazing, and her voice 0:18:43.916 --> 0:18:47.996 has this resonance and then this kind of bridge sonically 0:18:48.076 --> 0:18:52.476 that she made between almost like a kind of folky 0:18:52.756 --> 0:18:56.356 kind of tonality to then also being her music being 0:18:56.436 --> 0:19:01.236 very soulful. And I think I definitely found my voice 0:19:02.076 --> 0:19:06.196 singing along. Now, had you had you done formal music lessons, 0:19:06.236 --> 0:19:10.156 because no, not really. I mean, because you know something particularly, 0:19:10.156 --> 0:19:12.356 and I want to talk about man Child later. You know, 0:19:12.396 --> 0:19:17.396 that's it's a beautiful melody, and it's very sophisticated chords. 0:19:17.036 --> 0:19:20.916 It's it's a very unusual song. It's very complex, it's 0:19:20.956 --> 0:19:24.316 got different modes in it. Were those just things you 0:19:24.356 --> 0:19:27.156 were sensitive to? It was not something Yeah, I was 0:19:27.196 --> 0:19:31.996 just following. I was working with an autochord, a cassio 0:19:32.116 --> 0:19:37.076 keyboard that had an autochord settings on the left hand side, 0:19:37.476 --> 0:19:42.796 and I had one or two kind of melodies which 0:19:42.836 --> 0:19:44.916 were the you know, is it the pain of the 0:19:44.996 --> 0:19:48.076 drinking or the Sunday sinking feeling, which were the two 0:19:48.836 --> 0:19:52.356 first lines in the first verse, and then I just 0:19:52.436 --> 0:19:55.316 think I I sat with the auto chord, and I 0:19:55.516 --> 0:19:59.596 remember particularly in the second verse, and it just took 0:19:59.636 --> 0:20:03.676 the melodies into another place and I just kind of 0:20:04.036 --> 0:20:06.956 went went with it, and I just kind of kept 0:20:06.956 --> 0:20:11.076 my little tape recorder going so again, it was this 0:20:11.156 --> 0:20:14.196 kind of weird instinctual thing. So when someone comes in 0:20:14.236 --> 0:20:18.116 and says there's an e flat Dorian, You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever, 0:20:18.516 --> 0:20:21.516 And I'm in fact my dad was like, you know, 0:20:21.596 --> 0:20:26.276 you had seven chords in the verse. That's pretty okay, cool, 0:20:26.356 --> 0:20:30.356 yeah whatever. So, Punkers, what took you back to England? Right? Punkers? 0:20:30.356 --> 0:20:32.836 What took me to England in the first place? Really 0:20:33.516 --> 0:20:35.996 we didn't really It was not a place that I 0:20:36.036 --> 0:20:38.596 had really spent any time and growing up. And you 0:20:38.636 --> 0:20:40.756 went pretty young, but I went young. I mean I 0:20:40.836 --> 0:20:43.716 was sixteen and when I went there were your parents like, 0:20:44.436 --> 0:20:47.436 good luck, try and try and make a career in music. No, 0:20:47.756 --> 0:20:50.556 I mean it didn't really happen like that. It's funny. 0:20:50.676 --> 0:20:53.836 I was just on a journey, I guess, you know, 0:20:53.876 --> 0:20:59.236 I'd been I'd met the Slits, Arie and vivin Tessa. 0:20:59.756 --> 0:21:02.276 When my you know, when this is another thing, like 0:21:02.636 --> 0:21:05.516 so many of the threads of my things that have 0:21:05.596 --> 0:21:07.756 led from one thing to another, it's all kind of 0:21:07.836 --> 0:21:11.996 connected to my family, you know. Um So Don had 0:21:12.036 --> 0:21:15.916 toured with the Slits. They were like discovering jazz and 0:21:15.956 --> 0:21:19.236 they they was a great British punk band. We should yeah, 0:21:19.316 --> 0:21:23.316 all women, fantastic group. So he brought me on the 0:21:23.356 --> 0:21:26.676 tour so I and then towards the end of that tour, 0:21:27.596 --> 0:21:30.796 I met Ari. I mean Ari was we found each 0:21:30.836 --> 0:21:34.196 other kind of thing. We were became friends, and then 0:21:34.476 --> 0:21:37.716 she invited me to come and visit her. So I 0:21:37.836 --> 0:21:40.916 kind of came on, like you know, it was like summertime. 0:21:41.476 --> 0:21:44.676 I just came to hang out, ended up staying at 0:21:44.676 --> 0:21:47.676 her house. She was still living at her mom's house. 0:21:48.636 --> 0:21:53.516 And then we just kind of became inseparable, like really 0:21:53.556 --> 0:21:56.236 really close friends, and she sort of took me under 0:21:56.236 --> 0:21:58.916 her wing. And then I got a job working at 0:21:58.956 --> 0:22:01.796 this place called Better Badgers in Portobell Road, and I 0:22:01.876 --> 0:22:06.076 just kind of stayed and and then that led into 0:22:07.156 --> 0:22:09.996 the guys from the pop group forming a new band 0:22:10.036 --> 0:22:13.196 called Ripbrig and Panic and asking me to sing. So 0:22:13.276 --> 0:22:17.636 that's kind of how making music kind of happened really, 0:22:18.116 --> 0:22:21.076 So then lead us up to the making of the 0:22:21.076 --> 0:22:23.516 first album, Raw Like Sushi. How did that come about? 0:22:23.756 --> 0:22:26.916 So I'd been in Riprig and Panic, then Float Up CP, 0:22:27.556 --> 0:22:30.916 and then I'd made a sort of independent thing that 0:22:31.076 --> 0:22:34.596 came out on Island Records called Ross Eggs Pure energy, 0:22:34.276 --> 0:22:38.916 and and then I met Cameron, who I'm still married too, 0:22:38.956 --> 0:22:44.276 and who's been my kind of, you know, lifelong travel 0:22:44.636 --> 0:22:48.236 friend collaborator, and he just kind of said to me 0:22:48.276 --> 0:22:50.476 at some point like why don't you Why are you 0:22:50.556 --> 0:22:55.476 not writing songs like you should write? And I wrote 0:22:55.596 --> 0:22:58.276 a song called looking in the Eyes of Love and 0:22:58.356 --> 0:23:01.156 I sang it. I mean, I just wrote it in 0:23:01.236 --> 0:23:03.516 my head and I sang it in on a cassette 0:23:03.556 --> 0:23:07.156 and put it through his letterbox, his mailbox, and then 0:23:07.196 --> 0:23:09.196 like a few hours later he called me up and 0:23:09.236 --> 0:23:11.196 he had put chords to it and it was a song. 0:23:11.276 --> 0:23:17.076 I was like, oh shit, that's amazing. And Buffalo Stance 0:23:17.716 --> 0:23:20.956 was a kind of weird coincidence, right, which is what 0:23:21.196 --> 0:23:24.156 kind of then led the album, because it had been 0:23:24.156 --> 0:23:27.396 on the B side of this record called Looking Good 0:23:27.476 --> 0:23:31.676 Diving by Morgan mcvagh, one of those people being my 0:23:31.756 --> 0:23:36.236 husband Cameron, and they had this idea of like doing 0:23:36.276 --> 0:23:39.516 almost like a remix of their tune, which was very 0:23:39.676 --> 0:23:43.396 pop pop so to do like a dare I say, 0:23:43.796 --> 0:23:51.916 cooler B side, so so no disrespect. So we kind 0:23:51.956 --> 0:23:55.916 of spent an afternoon just in mining Cameron's flat, as 0:23:55.956 --> 0:23:58.476 we say on it you know, using some of the 0:23:58.556 --> 0:24:02.076 elements of the original and just rewriting the lyrics. I 0:24:02.076 --> 0:24:05.836 wrote the raps, we wrote the chorus and the bridge together. 0:24:06.916 --> 0:24:09.836 And then Nellie Hooper, who like produced, sold to Soul 0:24:09.956 --> 0:24:13.636 and DJ Milo. They were kind of part of the 0:24:13.676 --> 0:24:17.396 Wild Bunch, which then became Massive Attack, so they produced 0:24:17.996 --> 0:24:21.436 that and then that just kind of disappeared a little bit. 0:24:21.476 --> 0:24:24.276 And then my friend Tim Simonon, who was part of 0:24:24.916 --> 0:24:27.716 Bomb the Bass, he sort of led Bomb the Bass, 0:24:27.956 --> 0:24:31.916 heard it, he really liked it, and so he wanted 0:24:31.916 --> 0:24:36.316 to recut it. So that's how Buffalo Stance happened because 0:24:36.356 --> 0:24:40.116 without him, I mean talk about looking forward, well, I 0:24:40.156 --> 0:24:41.956 mean we were like already passed it, do you know 0:24:41.996 --> 0:24:43.516 what I mean? I guess first of all, I should 0:24:43.516 --> 0:24:45.796 ask you, did this success surprise you? Then when it 0:24:45.876 --> 0:24:49.156 became a big hit, we were on a small tour 0:24:49.236 --> 0:24:52.076 around England or maybe a little bit in Europe with 0:24:52.156 --> 0:24:55.436 Bomb the Bass, and I was just I mean, I 0:24:55.516 --> 0:24:59.356 was pregnant. I had a MC with me called Gilly Gee. 0:24:59.476 --> 0:25:02.596 I guess we were just kind of playing off backing 0:25:02.636 --> 0:25:06.036 tracks and we did three songs and Buffalo Dance was 0:25:06.076 --> 0:25:09.316 the last song in the set. And we noticed as 0:25:09.356 --> 0:25:11.676 we were kind of going around the country that people 0:25:11.716 --> 0:25:15.596 were starting to recognize it. And I remember one night 0:25:15.716 --> 0:25:19.996 sitting on my bed in our house in West London 0:25:20.236 --> 0:25:24.476 and there was this kind of late night American Top 0:25:24.556 --> 0:25:28.436